Freeh Report on Sandusky and PSU BOMBSHELL: What They Missed
Blink is on location and will be filing this report later today. I am opening the thread to keep discussion on the Freeh Report here in advance of the piece. Set your RSS.
Related Posts
Related Posts:
1,136 Comments
RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI
So does that mean, so does Steven Ice?
erose says:
October 3, 2012 at 6:46 pm
Sloane’s USAF experience seems to be intellegence and security analysis.
https://profiles.google.com/114746755286442275195#114746755286442275195/about
He either had or maintains clearance of some kind I would think. The whole thing is bizarre to me.
B
And Apache Records, LLC is Sloane’s production company???
Well, some gossiper said Sloane and Masorti share some interests. Did we all see this:
Ceramic Jesus
Artist: Philip Masorti
Genre: Rock
Website: http://www.philipmasorti.com
From erose’s link:
http://www.apachemusic.net/artists.php
LOL, I thought that at first, ’til I checked the calendar. See I told you, clueless.
Rotfl. Tomorrow’s goal: shake the giggles I have obviously needed to get through some serious casework the last few days about a movie I did not even get, but now want to.
Sigh. Batteries recharge in mysterious ways I suppose, thanks for that.
B
I’m in the twilight zone. PA Sec of State gives registered agent’s addy for Apache Music, LLC as 341 North Science Park Rd. Ste. 202, State College. Googling that, it comes up as the addy of Masorti’s law firm back when it was Masorti, Sullivan & (Jill) Engle and as the addy (down to the same suite #) of Karen Weiss, a realtor. So, Masorti is on S Burrowes now, so I guess the real estate folks are on N. Science. But that’s not the eerie part.
The addy (or one of them) for Suhey & Martin Orthopedic (Dr. Paul Suhey and Dr. James(Jim)Martin is 1700 Old Gatesburg Road, State College, PA. Which is at the intersecion with N. Science Park Rd. Some 197 feet away. And kitty-cornered is Poole Anderson Construction.
Must’ve lost all the coolness i used to have because i think there must be something in the water in those parts that’s causing all this weirdness. And when did Sloane live in Los Angeles? Don Abbey isn’t far away and his behemoth SoCal mansion for sale is in LA suburb.
I must sleep soon after bedtime prayers for all those involved in any way. The Sloanes have a young boy, somewhere 10-13 yrs old. God help him.
https://www.corporations.state.pa.us/corp/soskb/Corp.asp?2534478
http://www.yelp.com/biz/masorti-sullivan-and-engle-pc-state-college
I know, Philip Masorti & The Herd.
beejay says:
October 3, 2012 at 9:51 pm
Shouldn’t it be? Receiving drugs across state lines. I guess he committed crimes in Centre County as well.
—————————————————————-
Is this Federal? Forgive me, I should know, but I am burning the candles on both coasts at the moment.
B
Definitely, and involving USPS as well. Still not gelling for me at all.
B
Do they have Magisterial District Judges conduct the arraignments on Federal charges in PA? Cause they used MDJ Tammy L. Hunter from Mifflin County for Sloane’s. Via video conferencing. See, for all i know, that’s possible in the Commonwealth!
I can’t even get a consistent set of facts or find the supposed online court documents, so I’m useless. Seen several sets of charges but most popular one looks like state level charges. Maybe a little adjustment has been made along the way.
no, Fed is Fed but definitely could be pending upgrade to charges if there is something else going on.
B
I can see a couple pages of reading and there is humor to brighten it, but never loathe to wait opinion on facts, I’ll offer imo
(1) firm fired him immediately in the absence of a Bar investigation, any investigation, or charges. Not typical, even if partner is a one man show. This then has legs.
(2) who receives, inadvertantly from an old nutcase acquaintance or not, illegal substances (at his NEW place of work where he should be sucking up big time) and does not IMMRDIATELY call LE to report the mailing & bag as evidence?
Imo he’s had abstract thinking problems for a good while, etilogy unknown.
Further, this is not characterologically new behavior dating to some injury or surgery.
Imo it shows a propensity to behavior relating to truth and duplicity which I believe
will run back to his first employment, under Gricar.
Imo the charges took a year to have a clean investigation
as so many cases he tried may be implicated. (Wonder if athletes
shared their stash?)
I believe he is being charged first under State law.
If he does not cooperate, Federal will follow (and probably will anyway).
The interesting thing will be who bought from him over time,
and if he has anything on Judges.
@beejay. i don’t think anyone was a target in Modesto.
If this were a real case being worked up, there’d be more
fish to fry & for higher quantities & bigger stakes.
this small transaction would’ve gone unnoticed.
I think this was the fruit of drug sniffing dogs (& prob explosives sniffers too)
who are routinely sheparded by their handlers
through packages passing thru USPS sorting facilities there & elsewhere.
That is, imo twas a chance find by protocols followed at USPS in the “drug war.”
@Rose, I agree that Sloane has some abstract thinking problems, but is someone using his achilles heel right now? If the duplicity runs back to Gricar, then perhaps he is a Judas. There were two times in the past, I thought that, but can’t put my finger on them now, but probably something to do with the tape and his lack of memory associated with it.
The clean investigation might be complete, but why not wait until after Sandusky is sentenced, when it has been almost a year already? It is so hard to think that a player in Sandusky’s 1998 case is once again a relevant name, though I admit it is a possible it is only a coincidence. P.S. I truly appreciate your objectivity.
Here is my thing. And not to put a finer point on the invisible ink flying around-
I suggest to you he did not have a lack of memory of that tape, but a definite lack of memory it still existed post-indictment of Sandusky.
For lack of a better phrase- his arrest and information surrounding same is crude.
For a sworn officer of the court, anyway.
It seems to be bothering all of us with vast knowledge of the case-
B
Rose, I like it! But first we need a consistent set of facts. So far, best i can tell, he never got a pkg from Mr. Ice at the Masorti law offices. There were pkgs Sloane got at his own home, spring of 2011, from Mr. Ice. But only one was addressed to Sloane at the Masorti law office–and that one was intercepted by Modesto PD’s narcs before it got out of Modesto. I think you’re right about the random part. Although, I still want to see if Modesto PD seized any other outgoing parcels from Mr. Ice to other friends.
That part has to get clarified better. And, was Ice Sloane’s only supplier? If Sloane is feeding a narcotics habit, and the mj sales are merely to support that, he needs a lot more pills than Ice seems to have been supplying. Granted, we don’t know if he got the 4-6 pkgs we’re reading about over 6 months time, or if he got 1 every week from Ice.
Modesto is deluged with mj growers this past yr. Their PD has a Facebook pg where some of that is posted. Due to change in medical mj laws in CA. Mexican cartels also involved.
Internet gossiper said Sloane and Masorti share some common interests other than just music, but that’s no help.
Living Local: Philip Masorti
http://www.centredaily.com/2012/05/06/3186748/living-local-philip-masorti.html
Costas Interview with Sandusky Earns Emmy
http://onwardstate.com/2012/10/03/costas-interview-with-sandusky-earns-emmy/
He Sooooooo deserves that. Best media interview of a criminal suspect I can recall in years, if not ever.
Biggest legal error of an attorney of a criminal suspect since Chris Darden had OJ try the gloves on.
Costas was masterful.
B
A Democratic-led effort to debate whether to have federal authorities look into how the Jerry Sandusky investigation was handled is tying up the Pennsylvania House of Representatives.
Republican Speaker Sam Smith abruptly adjourned the chamber Wednesday after Democrats tried to force discussion of a resolution asking the U.S. attorney’s office to look into the matter.
Read more here: http://www.centredaily.com/2012/10/03/3358031/pa-house-tied-up-over-sandusky.html#storylink=cpy
No secret I am a Republican. That said, I don’t care about party as it relates to the possibility the investigation of a serious criminal matter involving the sexual abuse of children was clearly mishandled on Corbett’s watch. The Gricar disappearance is an absolute shanda of an investigation alone.
As corrupt as NJ was at one time, and I completely admit that it was, PA could use a little house cleaning.
B
Sloane’s court summary, with perhaps useful numbers unless they change it in the future. Meat is:
Statute Grade Description Disposition Counts
18 § 7512 §§ A F3 Criminal Use Of Communication Facility 1
F Conspiracy – Manufacture, Delivery, or
Possession With Intent to Manufacture or
Deliver
18 § 903 §§ C 1
35 § 780-113 §§ A16 M Int Poss Contr Subst By Per Not Reg 1
F Manufacture, Delivery, or Possession With
Intent to Manufacture or Deliver
35 § 780-113 §§ A30 6
MDJS
link:
http://ujsportal.pacourts.us/DocketSheets/MDJCourtSummaryReport.aspx?matterID=705074318
@Beejay, This might be when Sloane lived in LA. Nothing says why or how he found his way to PA.
I was born in L:A at the beginning of Rock and Roll, 1959! My Father was from Brooklyn and lived a block away from Joe Paterno and was 3 years younger. They went to different High Schools (Paterno – Catholic) (My Dad- Madison, Brooklyn, New York). My Mother was born and raised in the Black Mountain Hills of North Carolina, outside Birmingham. Her sister Billie, was married to a Marlette.
http://www.pandora.com/#!/profile/spsloane1
Sloane’s court summary, with perhaps useful numbers unless they change it in the future. Meat is:
Statute Grade Description Disposition Counts
18 § 7512 §§ A F3 Criminal Use Of Communication Facility 1
F Conspiracy – Manufacture, Delivery, or
Possession With Intent to Manufacture or
Deliver
18 § 903 §§ C 1
35 § 780-113 §§ A16 M Int Poss Contr Subst By Per Not Reg 1
F Manufacture, Delivery, or Possession With
Intent to Manufacture or Deliver
35 § 780-113 §§ A30 6
MDJS
link:
http://ujsportal.pacourts.us/DocketSheets/MDJCourtSummaryReport.aspx?matterID=705074318
portal Majesterial Courtts, PA’s unified court system is here:
http://ujsportal.pacourts.us/DocketSheets/MDJ.aspx
sorry for double post. Must be stuttering.
Agree with your latest comment Blink. It’s just too screwey. I’m waffling again.
Something about this spells informant who stopped informing. I have no specific information that is the case, but in a substantially similar matter I will be covering in the future, a man agreed to a plea deal on the state level who was dealing illegal drugs in exchange for a virtual non-sentence, predicated on his assisstance (informant) with the FBI on it’s continuing investigation.
It seems that Mr. Drugpimp understated his involvement in the first charges, and this came out so he decided he would stop helping and within 2 days the FBI had his ass in the clink.
Not that it mattered, he ultimately got double suspended sentences and probation-
The whole criminal informant mess is just that in many cases I have worked on personally and the public has no idea what back deals are going on because it is protected info from a docket in the state system, and if under seal, the Federal as well.
I refer to the Sharpton case as well- lifelong felon is a DEA informant, and is running though states kidnapping, robbing, ripping off and now murder.
B
Donald Kibler (1984) Children of the Wind
Got this off of Sports by Brooks Twitter
Feds found dude Corbett let walk using charity, cattle prod, booze, drugs & “paramilitaristic organization” to ply kids
http://twitter.com/SPORTSbyBROOKS
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1144&dat=19840808&id=PZMcAAAAIBAJ&sjid=E2MEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5745,4104825
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ROUNAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Hm4DAAAAIBAJ&pg=2502,200487
Kibler (1978)
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1144&dat=19781206&id=UcEdAAAAIBAJ&sjid=B1kEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6507,3495697
Largest Porn Bust to date in county (1979) Kibler & two other men arrested, and a thick “John Book.”
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1129&dat=19790301&id=w-0NAAAAIBAJ&sjid=WW0DAAAAIBAJ&pg=6565,129591
Then there is the trial, prosecuted by ADA Tom Corbett.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1144&dat=19790925&id=DZgqAAAAIBAJ&sjid=JFwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4589,5531110
The verdict.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1144&dat=19790926&id=DpgqAAAAIBAJ&sjid=JFwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6919,5687189
Thursday, October 4, 2012
SMSS EXCLUSIVE – We have pictures
SCENES OF THE CRIME SEEN for the FIRST TIME
by Barry Bozeman, Ray Blehar & the FREEHdom Fighters.
FINALLY after weeks of trying the FREEHdom Fighters have managed to get these pictures for an exclusive release to our viewers/readers. The party that provided these to us wants only donations to go to the Legal Fund that will be used to sue the NCAA and Louis Freeh. Please hit the DONATE button to the right with a small contribution to carry this fight to the NCAA and FREEH.
WE are going to show you 10 images of the Lasch Locker room along with the various versions of testimony under oath of Mike McQueary.about the night of Feb 9, 2001.
Link to the secret shower room photos:
http://notpsu.blogspot.com/2012/10/smss-exclusive-we-have-pictures.html?spref=tw
Not functional, would need to research.
B
Taken from erose’s link:
Hanna said if a probe into the Sandusky investigation shows it was conducted properly, “this will put to rest all the concerns expressed throughout the state.”
“It’s in the best interest of everyone to have this resolved, and this the way to do it,” Hanna said. “An independent outside investigation would either completely clear the (Corbett) investigation or show if anything was done improperly.”
Read more here: http://www.centredaily.com/2012/10/03/3358031/pa-house-tied-up-over-sandusky.html#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy
__________________
“An independent outside investigation”???
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Acc to one reporter Masorti weighed in on what happened to Gricar. Snip below takes you in on page 4 of this 2011 article:
Others are just as resigned, or perplexed. As Sloane, Gricar’s former assistant, discussed the case Wednesday in his State College law office, his law partner Phil Masorti bounded into the room and the conversation – proof that the debate still ripples through legal and political circles in central Pennsylvania.
Masorti, a defense lawyer, gushed about Gricar as a brilliant and principled district attorney who honed his trial skills as a young prosecutor in Cleveland but who traded that for a quieter role in Happy Valley when his first wife landed a job at Penn State.
Masorti insisted Gricar was “intellectually capable” of disappearing without a trace and might have arranged it to confound locals who did not always belong in his league.
Or not. Masorti started rationalizing a Gricar suicide, then pivoted and suggested checking the federal Witness Protection Program.
“You don’t think he’s dead, do you?” he pressed Sloane, adding, “I don’t think he’s dead.”
link:
http://articles.philly.com/2011-07-31/news/29835864_1_investigators-retirement-plans-ray-gricar/4
——————-
beejay says:
October 3, 2012 at 10:25 pm
I’m in the twilight zone. . . . ~ . . . But that’s not the eerie part.
The addy (or one of them) for Suhey & Martin Orthopedic (Dr. Paul Suhey and Dr. James(Jim)Martin is 1700 Old Gatesburg Road, State College, PA. Which is at the intersecion with N. Science Park Rd. Some 197 feet away. And kitty-cornered is Poole Anderson Construction.
Must’ve lost all the coolness i used to have because i think there must be something in the water in those parts that’s causing all this weirdness.
————————–
A. I’ll assume you’re kidding, but watch it with the “what’s in the water” comments.
B. The area you’re discussing on Old Gatesburg Road, despite the name, is brand new. Road just built; mulch still on the roadside seeding. Martin & Suhey, and other tenants, just moved into the building late summer. Space still remains for lease, if you’re interested. Or you could apply for work at the nearby Minitab campus.
C. If you want to check on something stranger in terms of new construction around here, check out the number of banks. They’re proliferating like wild bunnies. I’ve heard everyone from 6 to 90 comment on that, and no one seems to have an explanation. Don’t know what that has to do with Sandusky et al, but everything else is under the micro, so why not that oddity?
I’m laughing with you, but on the serious side, do you question an objective federal investigation? I’m asking because, if we don’t have the feds, then we got nuttin’.
beejay says:
October 4, 2012 at 11:14 am
You guys just keep finding details of what I surmised at the beginning of this case. Political parties getting outed for all kinds of back room deals to make their life better. The fact that others were harmed in the process is not a problem as long as they get what they want.
There are many,many people who live in the shadows of the drug trade that are being used by the DEA to find the real “big dealers”. Letting the “little fish” back on the streets and into society is SOP for DEA.
kudos erose, beejay. doesn’t it trouble you an LA born Californian just happened to get a job in Gricar’s Centre Cty office as his starting point? Except oops he has a Brooklyn Dad who lived a block from JP. Of all 50 States, and all lustrious counties in them, don’t you think maybe Sloan chose Western PA because a job was there? As opposed to Kansas or Idaho. Perhaps Gricar interviewed & hired him as a favor to JP? And then Sloane got all the football prosecutions. Maybe JP and Gricar had some kind of friendship, or scratching each other’s backs, we’re unaware of, and who will tell now? Maybe Sloane.
@erose. depends on who AG will be
You all probably have this up already, but I just got the report.
Dottie gets her bond money and house (lien?) back!
http://www.kplctv.com/story/19739526/sandusky-family-requesting-bond-money-be-returned
I am a meanie and I say No Refunds for Criminals.
Here’s the update on the house release and refund.
http://www.cw15.com/mostpopular/story/UPDATE-As-requested-Sanduskys-wife-cash-bail/mVGchAYnsUGW8A-qDPgQFw.cspx
Court docs not online yet?
WSJ on the appeal and says victims will speak at the sentencing.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443493304578036820749977386.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
And yesterday McQueary filed his $4 million lawsuit against Penn State. The dollar figure is based on his projected 25-year income as a football coach.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/wp/2012/10/03/mike-mcqueary-files-defamation-lawsuit-against-penn-state/
Blink: is this okay to post? Because it’s rumor. Bucceroni said on his twitter that Triton HS, in Camden County,N.J., was one of Ed Savitz’ “target schools”. So, just something to be aware of–that as a possibility. It does provide a purported link into New Jersey, part of the alleged tri-state pedophile ring from Ed Savitz time. I believe, at that era, primarily underprivileged kids attending.
In recent news:
RUNNEMEDE — A sex scandal erupted Thursday at Triton Regional High School, where a top law enforcement official said a culture of permissiveness allowed male teachers to pursue sexual relationships with female students.
link:
http://www.courierpostonline.com/article/20121005/NEWS01/310050047/3-Triton-teachers-accused-affairs-students
@Word Girl: Read back upstream here. I gave the link to the online court doc for Steve Sloane.
Actually, everybody might want to scroll upstream; Blink has put up some things that were somewhat delayed.
@lizzy: Did i offend?! Sorry–you know i mean only the guilty parties! Actually, I play a dreadful keyboard and Blink could probably handle a Washboard, so we’ll just head for Masorti’s place. Oh, they don’t have an amateur night?
@erose: Sigh. Have we not all known of corrupted federal investigations? Time will tell; hoping always for the best, but all the leads in the world won’t pan out if the will to prosecute isn’t there. Or gets halted by corrupted politicians or others.
Hi, Blink! This one is up now:
beejay says:
October 4, 2012 at 11:50 am
_______
Here’s the link from that post again:
http://articles.philly.com/2011-07-31/news/29835864_1_investigators-retirement-plans-ray-gricar/4
_________________________
I’d love to hear from ya’ll if you have time to go read at that link. OK, I know it builds interest to say that Masorti “bounded into the room and the conversation” that reporter was engaged in with Sloane. But there’s the question of whether that reporter also detected an excessive interest by Masorti, in particular an interest in getting it on the record that either Masorti doesn’t think Gricar is dead. Or, that Masorti wanted to influence the reading public’s opinion in the direction of Gricar not being dead. Someone might want to discuss it with the reporter to see if he had an inkling about it. Article was just in 2011.
Another post is up now, with link to the long-sought shower room photos. If you go to the link, you’ll see there another link to Blehar’s powerpoint presentation. If I’ve got this right, that will be used in the upcoming suit against whoever they’re naming at PSU for accepting NCAA’s sanctions.
beejay says:
October 4, 2012 at 11:03 am
___________________
@erose: I’m going to read all your stuff now. TY so much.
dob 1958? Now removed from docstore (by owner?)
Steven_Sloane
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/…/Steven_Sloane
Feb 4, 2012 – Steven Sloane Short description. Steven Sloane (b. 1958, Los Angeles, California) is …
sorry, ’58 is the conductor
Does anyone remember that call girl investigation (related to Eliot Spitzer and Governor X) we discussed back when we talked about Jonathan Luna–the reports that it lead back to “the highest levels in [someone's] office”? Who was that someone?
Don’t go on a wild goose chase. I know it’s Rendell that has been suspected to be Kristin Davis’ “Governor X”. I’m just trying to see if that “highest levels in [someone's] office simply refers to Rendell. Or IF there’s yet another prominent politician involved around the time of Luna’s death.
Bucceroni, on his twitter, has continued his death-wish campaign against Rendell by identifying Rendell as Governor X.
But was there another politician? Davis has explained, to me, the “highest levels” aspect. She said someone in Gov X’s office, known to her as ‘Michael’, procured her for the Gov. After first giving her a test-run himself. And this ‘Michael’ handled the payment for services to the Gov.
link:
http://www.manhattanmadam.com/kristins_blog/view/737/governor_x_has_not_and_will_not_be_named
Did we get a link up to Bill Keisling’s latest article?
Titled:
Old boys gone wild
Clery Act:
The enemy within
link:
http://www.yardbird.com/Clery_Act_Enemy_Within_Old_Boys_Gone_Wild.htm
Researchers remember that “Steve” Sloane’s legal name is Stephen P. Sloane. Should not be shown as “Steven” with a ‘v’.
There are some Steven Sloanes around who are not our guy
Trying again to do a work-around to post something. It’s post #126 on pg 4 of trutv board’s Jonathan Luna Redux Redux Redux thread. IF problem posting is within the text I’m bringing over, then it won’t post. Let’s leave all that in and omit the link to trutv.
At the post #126 at link below, who is “he”?? Is that Taj Verbal Lee who had access to an iphone (in prison at the time, I think) and sent that image? Or, is it Bill Keisling who sent it? Or is it the then-AG who sent it? Because if you read the posts above/below that one, it might be useful to know. As best I follow the links there, including the dead ones, I think Keisling sent the Taj image. Help!
Post #126:
star1110shine
http://www.pic2fly.com/Taji+Verbal+Lee.html
Why did he send it?
Taji Verbal Lee submited images | Pic 2 Fly
http://www.pic2fly.com/Taji+Verbal+Lee.htmlFind images on Taji Verbal Lee. … Results for Taji Verbal Lee. Taji Verbal Lee http://www.pic2fly.com · http://www.pic2fly.com · Taji Verbal Lee http://www.yardbird.com …
I apoly for being more full of questions than answers today.
Does anyone remember who that third adult male was in the old photo of Sandusky, Dominic Toscani(Sr) and several boys? A customer image is now available at amazon.com with that photo. For me, its the fifth image up (click on customer images at top left of the page with Touched on it).
Or, see if this link will take you right to the photo. TIA
http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-media/product-gallery/1582613575/ref=cm_ciu_pdp_images_all
Cont’d.
Or, anyone able to capture that image and clarify the caption just above it? I can’t get it. Frank somebody?
Sorry. I found it. Mosier. He and wife (? a female name) made contributions to TSM, as shown in 2005 annual report.
http://books.google.com/books?id=DhURgPDxVhgC&pg=PA110-IA11&lpg=PA110-IA11&dq=frank+mosier+the+second+mile&source=bl&ots=DcK0iuCEU-&sig=ypheRQW2SvZi4pV7nXpo7VomBbA&hl=en#v=onepage&q=frank mosier the second mile&f=false
http://www.thesecondmile.org/pdf/AnnualReport2005.pdf
Erose, if you posted this i didn’t see it scanning back quickly. Kibler’s help-the-disadvantaged-kids group? He said he named it that because they travelled all over the TRI-STATE area. (Playing away games with other groups, several he named were groups homes or similar. Also, traveling to sports camps and cultural events.)
Remember in Sandusky’s book he said he tried to learn from other similar groups when he started TSM? Would not surprise me if he learned some organizational tricks from Kibler. And, of course, Ed Savitz.
Compare these two old newspaper articles of COTW and TSM:
“Victory Lap” article about down on pg 2. Back when Ron Coder was the TSM director:
http://digitalnewspapers.libraries.psu.edu/Repository/DCG/1980/12/08/036-DCG-1980-12-08-001-SINGLE.pdf
And Children of the Wind article at:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1144&dat=19781206&id=UcEdAAAAIBAJ&sjid=B1kEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6507,3495697