Nittany Nightmare Continues Past Sandusky: Former President Spanier Charged- NEW Charges for Curley and Schultz Filed
Happy Valley- PA On the heels of convicted child molester Jerry Sandusky’s transfer to his new home, what most predicted would follow- has.
Former Penn State President Graham Spanier, fired by the Penn State Board of Trust the same day as legendary late-Nittany Lions Coach Joe Paterno, is facing serious charges today filed by Sandusky’s prosecutors.
Spanier is facing counts of obstruction of justice, perjury, conspiracy, endangering the welfare of children and failure to report allegations of child abuse.
Tim Curley and Gary Schultz, who were facing perjury and charges based on “non-reporting”, are now facing all five similar charges as Spanier- additional filings occurred simultaneously.
Linda L. Kelly stated the men “used their positions to conceal and cover up for years the activities of a known child predator,” on Thursday following the announcement.
Please check back to www.blinkoncrime for this developing story.
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His defense gave the ok to do this?
They should all just shoot themselves in the nuts and get it over with. Talk about self damnation. The guy may not have been determined ‘guilty’ by a jury of his peers, but how many times does he want to put himself in front of the firing squad?
Let him be his own worst enemy but I can’t help but wonder what his counsel is thinking. UGH!!!!!!!
http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2013/03/jerry-sandusky-jailhouse-interview-today-show/
reading back, fine work erose, steve. felt on yr 3/1 @ 3:13 post erose that Freeh’s finger was in the pie & yr next posts proved it. re privatizing DPW, not surprised & bet it happens. Probably in States like Mich & Wisc too. Fla investor group probably has Jeb in its mix. imo the reason is the public employee pension burden for PA, with DPW a huge agency.
re Jerry in the news. We’ve always known his wiring & therefore judgment is just very messed up.
I predict many more of these fiascos over the years getting “his” story of innocence (imo he believes that) out.
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/state/20130325_Convicted__Orie_Melvin_resigns_from_Supreme_Court.html
She may lose her pension, I hope so. This allows Corbett to nominate someone to fill the vacancy I believe.
Her pension should reimburse taxpayers. Wth happened in that three-sister household to encourage such indulgence and entitlements?
Such a waste.
B
http://deadspin.com/paterno-apologist-reveals-identity-of-one-of-jerry-sand-460831297
Way to go John Ziegler.
That guy is an absolute parasitic tool and I will delete any link to his site or promos to his suckumentary.
He really thinks this is helping JOPA? Freaking ambulance chasing goon.
Hacked my ass. He means he is a hack.
Sorry, I watched the interview with Matt Lauer and he ABSOLUTELY would have spilled the ID of victim #2 if Matt did not see it coming and remind him he could not. That was always his plan.
Shameful, and not for nothing, but Coach would not have given this gavone the time of day given his antics.
B
ps. apologize for rant I do not- who this guy thinks he is to REVICTIMIZE is beyond me and I hope he gets sued.
“In hindsight, perhaps I erred in not asking follow up questions about the role of corporate counsel Baldwin,” Feudale wrote. “I regret and perhaps committed error in not asking any follow-up questions, but while I am unaware what the response would have been, I fail to discern how such would persuade me at this stage why presentments should be dismissed.”
http://hosted2.ap.org/CARIE/a4cb5a6027c04c8690df451653b3b750/Article_2013-04-09-Penn%20State-Abuse/id-bd6759c615ba4e5ba33d49467ba945c1
look at Feudale’s Linked In
I wonder what County he was a child abuse “social worker” for?
(I see no degree credentials for that.)
I wonder where he taught public school?
I wonder if he coached football at that school?
http://judgepedia.org/index.php/Barry_Feudale
“He worked in private practice in the law and as a solicitor for Children and Youth Services and as Chief Public Defender n Northumberland County.”
GJ and now sitting criminal judge?
B
I found it interesting Feudale appointed a special investigator into grand jury leaks when I read this article:
http://www.scrantontimestribune.com/Eagen/archives/061099.htm
“Mr. Eagen contends the charges against him should be dropped because of leaks of grand-jury proceedings, the release of a target letter against him just before the election in which he was defeated, and the failure of local prosecutors to recuse themselves even after they knew they would be witnesses against him.” Sounds all to familiar.
Steve and Rose, thx for the article on Orie and more info on Feu. I hadn’t followed the case closely and now I see there’s a ream of more corruption at hand. Is it this way everywhere? Am I super-naive living where I do?
And is Orie wearing a Chanel bag in this photo? If so, how do I get one of those, also?
Ps I’ve been good.
Word Girl
from PennLive:
“Louis Freeh has heard this before: Ex-government official decries 2012 Freeh report as flawed: http://bit.ly/13PaarL
(ps for kyron thread: Chertoff is an embedded Potomac School politician)
Also McLean niche geography for opus dei–freeh, santorum, etc. Thornburgh is the best of the lot imo.
Rose, in terms of the Freeh report was, an internal investigation by PSU and one that the NCAA could treat as a self investigation, Thornburgh was dead wrong.
The standard of proof that any private organization using their rules is to be “morally convinced” of guild, a much lower standard than beyond a reasonable doubt. Further much of what Thornburgh complained about, using hearsay evidence and sources only talking to the investigator, is admissible, specifically.
I’m not certain of any relevance of Jane Orie in this, but someone overstated her position in the State Senate. She was the majority whip, which put her either third or fourth in leadership, behind the President Pro Tem of the Senate, the Majority Leader, and possibly behind the Appropriations Committee Chair.
While she was obviously a player, Orie wasn’t the most powerful person in the chamber, much less the whole Northeast, as was suggested.
@JJ
I think the relevance of Orie is her enemies. As far as how she was characterized, that came from the media. Glad to have people like you on blogs that put MSM in perspective. I am so discouraged by what passes for journalism these days.
btw @JJ, I have read many of your comments on Ray Gricar. I know you have remained objective. Today, what do you think is the most likely theory? In retrospect, what do you think of Karen Arnold and her theory?
Orie, at the height of her power would probably be in the top 20-40 people in the state in terms of influence (her sister was probably higher), and probably in the top 20 among Republicans. That makes her very important, but not all powerful.
Voluntary departure is the most likely, but it is not particularly strong.
I give the odds at:
Voluntary Departure (Walkaway): 52% likely.
Victim of Foul Play (Primarily Murder): 44% likely.
Suicide: 3% likely.
Something else: 1% likely.
Foul play has increased slightly since 2011. At one point, it was at 40% until May of 2011.
As for Ms. Arnold, I think her major accomplishment was introducing me into the mix, and that is a dubious accomplishment at best.
If the theory is that Ms. Fornicola somehow did it, she had an alibi for the entire day and passed a polygraph. While I certainly think that she should have been looked at in 2005, she was. I am really amazed at the amount of access she gave the police. She let the police search the house without a warrant. She also sat down with to of Mr. Gricar’s friend, fellow DA’s McKnight and Buehner, after the disappearance, and let them grill her for four hours. She, along with the rest of the staff at the time, is of my suspect list.
She is also very low on my “potential helper” list.
JJ- given your feelings on Ms. Arnold- why do you think she refuses to discuss Gricar’s case at all any longer?
B
I would add, regarding Ms. Arnold, that she was the first who indicated that there might have been some interest of Mr. Gricar in the Wiley case, though she didn’t confirm it. She thought the case had been referred to in the office.
Blink, I am not too sure that she isn’t discussing things under a pseudonym. She did comment under a few blogs and a few CDT articles.
Ms. Arnold, other than her long “Ladies and Gentleman of the Jury,” did not comment for years on the Gricar disappearance. Even in that, excepting, Wiley, which was not definitive, there was no new information.
Her only quotes were from William Keisling, who is a self published author, not a journalist (but neither am I), and at the the time was staunchly in the “drug dealers murdered Gricar” camp. He has since left it and moved into “Ray walked away to avoid bad press” camp. Neither possibility is likely.
Bad press from what?
I read Ms. Arnold’s quotes or comments under her own name- and very specifically her most recent subpoena I am aware of.
For the record, I believe Ray Gricar’s case should be the sole jurisdiction of the FBI as an elected official, period.
B
She got bad press, initially for not talking to the press after the disappearance initially, in some cases for not talking to the press after LGJ was posted, not talking to the press after Amendola’s filing regarding “extensive disagreement” she had with Mr. Gricar about the 1998 case, bad press regarding not talking to Freeh (though that was more commentary; Twitter was brutal).
For the record, I think it has been unjustified. The AP story after Amendola’s filing made it sound like she was barricaded in her house; you can’t even blame that on the CDT. The thing is, from everything I can tell, she acted properly in 1998, and had she been kept on the case, the result might have been different. I am NOT happy about that press.
The FBI doesn’t have direct jurisdiction, but has been assisting. I’ve made the argument that, since Sandusky, the AG’s Office should handle the case, to avoid the appearance of a conflict of interest. Before that, there were no grounds under statute. Two DA’s, of different parties, political opponents, have both declined to forward it.
Respectfully submitted JJ- I think you may have a bit of bias wrt Ms. Arnold. One is either true to their written word and obligations of same, or they are not. Ms. Arnold HERSELF wrote a call to action which she does not validate today.
In fairness, that is her choice. She was willing to put it out there to compel action at one time, then not. What changed?
B
Well, probably, but I also think she was treated unfairly in regard to Sandusky. I am not a particular fan of Ms. Arnold and I would doubt she is a fan of me, but that doesn’t change that I think the press coverage of her put her, unfairly, in a bad light. That could be a factor.
I’m also not sure how much her LGJ was a “call to action.” She confirmed things that others said, publicly, but the only thing new were the hints about Mr. Gricar being interested in the Wiley case. She didn’t advocate a particular course of action, or a range of actions, in that, other than say to release the cell phone records (and I’m in agreement).
After she released it, in 2007, and until she was running for DA in 2009, she didn’t say anything else publicly, other than comments on stories or possibly under a pseudonym. After being defeated in the primary, she supported the candidate that she complained about in LGJ, then she said nothing publicly about Gricar until 2011.
Prior to releasing it, other than comments on stories or possible postings under a pseudonym, she didn’t speak about the case in 2005-06, publicly.
Another factor might be that, since 2007, all evidence released could point to walkaway, though not exclusively. She is opposed to that option saying that Mr. Gricar would be remembered as a “‘head case’” if it is determined he walked away. I do not agree with her assessment.
Understood. I am in agreement that his cell records should be released and was denied a FOIA for them last year, in addition to some other record requests.
B
I strongly suspect that his last cell call was place from either west of Centre Hall or in Centre Hall and that might be the reason the cell records were not released.
What difference would that make, JJ?
B
It would strongly point to Mr. Gricar wanting to be in Lewisburg at a specific time. He called to say he was driving and couldn’t let the dog out at lunch time. If this location is correct, it would mean he could have left 20-40 minutes later after letting the dog out.
This could indicate, fairly strongly, that Mr. Gricar was not only planning to go to Lewisburg, but that he wanted to be there by a specific time.
I would reserve the right to change my opinion with new info, but we agree that this was a meeting, and it surprised Ms. Fornicola. I know who the person was she was filling in for- any thoughts?
B
The call didn’t surprise Ms. Fornicola; she said that Mr. Gricar sounded surprised. Ms. Fornicola didn’t know anything about a specific drive.
A few possibilities:
1. Fornicola misinterpreted Mr. Gricar’s reaction as surprise.
2. Mr. Gricar was surprised that the call had been transferred so quickly (if it was quickly). He might not have heard it ring. At the time, all calls to the Courthouse went through a central switchboard.
3. Mr, Gricar might have been surprised that Ms. Fornicola was answering the phone. She was covering for another worker; I don’t know who.
She was covering for another, but it is my understanding that woman ( I do know who it is) was out that day. I realize it is subjective, but this woman may be the woman Ms. Arnold refers to as the smoker with dark hair seen with Mr. Gricar at the antique shop.
B
From what I’ve heard, the other worker had to go to the restroom, so Ms. Fornicola was just answering the phones until the other worker returned.
The woman you are referring to is Barbara Petito (and she has talked to the press and her name is out). She never worked for the DA’s Office.
Ms. Petito was a former television reporter that was involved with Mr. Gricar in the mid-1990′s. They were either friends or in a relationship. She took a position as press spokesman in 1997-98, under AG Fisher. She was at the “drug ring” press conference in State College in lat 3/05 (3/31/05).
Well, on 4/16/05 at about 6:30 PM, they spotted the Mini, opened it, and smelled the cigarette smoke. Sometime before 11:45 PM on the same day, they had a witness, a shop owner, that said he/she saw Mr. Gricar the evening before in the Street of Shops with the “Mystery Woman.” The description was of a 5’6″- 5’8,” good looking woman with longish dark hair, which match Ms. Petito. Ms. Petito was also known to be a smoker, at least in the 1990′s.
Apparently, the police asked if Mr. Gricar knew anyone who match the description, and the smoke, and someone said, “That sounds like Barbara Petito.” There was a theory that Mr. Gricar just slipped away for the weekend for a tryst with Ms. Petito.
Petito was in New York state (Long Island) on that weekend. When the police initially called her home, she wasn’t there, which helped keep people thinking it was her.
Det. Zaccagni said that he was hoping Mr. Gricar would hear the reports of him being missing and call and shut everything down. The were looking at alternate theories, because the next day (4/17), they searched the river from the air.
Not who I am referring to but now that you mention her, I do recall that.
Why do you think Gricar’s disappearance was given such a low priority level in general, and most especially by Corbett?
B
That was the woman Ms. Arnold referred to. Ms. Fornicola indicated that she covered the phones for someone that was not at his/her desk. As I’ve indicated, I’ve heard that the person answering that day was in the bathroom.
Corbett never had jurisdiction. The only way the local DA’s Office can turn this over to the AG’s Office is if there is a conflict of interest or if the DA’s Office claims lack of resources. Two Centre County DA’s, and one acting DA, have said that is not the case.
For any AG to take the case away from Centre County, he/she would have to want to “institute criminal proceedings” or take a case being prosecuted, and he’d have to go before a local judge. Two elected and one acting AG have declined to do so and it is unlikely that they could “institute criminal proceedings,” because there is no solid evidence of a crime, much less a suspect to charge.
If you shoot me an email, I’ll be happy to send you a copy of the statute that governs this.
thank you for comments, JJ-PA.
reminder
http://www.yardbird (dot) com/corbett_sandusky_psu_timeline.htm
Keisling, the person who writes the Yardbird site. had a rather dramatic change of tune in January. http://newslanc.com/2013/01/19/district-attorney-ray-gricar-drops-the-ball/
I’m not a fan of Keisling and don’t think he was right either time.
Thanks JJ and Blink. I am learning all the time.
I admittedly am over my head with Gricar’s disappearance. What happened May 2011 for you to increase foul play by 4%? What is troubling for me is that the very people who could potentially have had something to do with his disappearance, (by virtue of proximity, knowledge, etc.) are the ones in charge of the investigation. Just seems for the sake of law and order, or common sense when a DA goes missing, especially after just being involved in a high profile drug bust, it should be treated as a crime.
My impression wrt Sandusky and the ’98 investigation was that whomever inserted Seasock in to the mix is the person who thwarted that investigation. Isn’t it true that over the years there were other grand juries convened that did not indict Sandusky? Didn’t Gricar’s ADA Sloane(?) and Gricar show up at Penn State in 2004. Wasn’t there a tape recording of that meeting that Sloane recently recovered. Was Sloane’s accident, really an accident?
I have never moved past Seasock myself, for reasons stated in our initial discussion of him. It occurs to me from your post we circle back to the unanswered wrt to Gricar. In that vein, to JJ: Have you come across any interesting connections to Chris Lee?
B
I wonder what prompted this pin-the-tail on Gricar in January?
Conviction was Oct; appeal, May. Just a quiet news cycle?
“The record in Jerry Sandusky’s case forces a reexamination of Gricar’s career and reputation.”
No one’s career & rep can be judged by a single decision as to whether there’s adequate evidence to charge. I do not believe any DA would charge on what S had on these 2 boys. It was up to S to continue an investigation, or not, or to broaden the investigatory resources.
“In the Sandusky case, Ray Gricar badly fell down on the job, and put an unknown number of young boys at risk.”
Easy to say this about a dead man unable to fill in the blanks. In any case Gricar could’ve taken over from Arnold to protect her from her enthusiasms where evidence was lacking.
Below, an overbroad analysis of Keisling to place blame on Gricar for future molestations.
Blame lies in Sandusky, and permissive latitude in Penn State & Second Mile administrators:
“Thanks in large part to Gricar, Jerry Sandusky would proceed to molest a long list of kids with impunity. Thanks to Ray Gricar, the stage was set for all that was to come.”
While Keisling’s Gricar analysis is flawed, JJ-PA, are his time line, and recounted facts, accurate as you see them?
I do not recall reading that before, thanks JJ for posting that. That’s ridiculous accusation for a man that cannot defend himself.
B
Erose, it wasn’t Mr. Gricar’s drug bust. His office was not prosecuting it.
Foul Play went from 40% to 43% and Walkaway 51% to 52%. What dropped was suicide. It had to do with the map he generated and the search pattern of the police on 4/16/05.
http://www.centredaily.com/2011/03/02/2556732/dots-on-a-map.html
http://www.centredaily.com/2011/04/28/2676956/triangulation.html
It points not only to a planned trip, but Mr. Gricar wanting to be in Lewisburg at a specific time. I have yet to hear on anyone wanting to commit suicide on schedule. Even if he was planning to go to Lewisburg to commit suicide, what difference would it make if he was 45 minutes late to his own suicide? If he carries it out, he doesn’t have to worry about next week’s schedule.
Sloan accident was an accident as far as I know
Blink, I don’t recognize the name Chris Lee. Do you Taji “Verbal” Lee?
No, I am familiar with Verbal’s case. I am referring to Christopher Lee of the Boal Mansion. We discussed him long ago and he was facing charges at the time of Gricar’s disappearance and running against Arnold for something that escapes me, iirc.
B
Kiesling over-emphasizes some things and ignores other things. While the Southfield sighting that he mentions was reported, it was in the midst of other reports that were ruled out. It was not emphasized until I did a blog on it in late June 2010. Why?
Nobody, including me, caught it, publicly (LE might). It was a “credible,” but possibly inaccurate, sighting. Some of the circumstances make it “credible” that Mr. Gricar would be there, at that time. None of the press at the time ever picked up on it.
In writing a 14 PART synopsis of the investigation, it rated one paragraph from me in 2009. After I did the blog on it, I actually complained how LITTLE coverage it received: http://www.centredaily.com/2010/07/19/2397458/southfield-sighting-silence.html
Keisling also ignores that any reassessment of Mr. Gricar would have very little impact on his life. He wasn’t going to run for anything or practice law. He didn’t have to worry about not being hired or losing the next election. People might look at him and say, “Ray, you really screwed up on Sandusky,” but, as a public official, people have been saying things like that (usually unfairly) for two decades.
Yes, it is a reason to run, but a minor one.
@JJ, as you say, not journalism here, but didn’t part of that heroin bust have ties in Centre County?
snip>
Shortly before his disappearance, Gricar’s photograph was posted on the internet in a press release trumpeting the heroin arrests, and the grand jury investigation.
http://www.yardbird.com/midnight_ride_another_missing_PA_prosecutor_1.htm
@Erose. re “My impression wrt Sandusky and the ’98 investigation was that whomever inserted Seasock in to the mix is the person who thwarted that investigation”
Having worked in cpsd, I think you underestimate the incompetence in State Child Welfare ranks, worse today, and that it would have no meaning a PA State child welfare office would contract with an unlicensed incompetent who was a white male presenting well.
Tho my “State” would never have contracted with the likes of Seasock. In fact evaluators were psychiatrists referred to by the Court system & were of highest caliber. But If DSS wanted an eval in a nonCourt case of a child, 99 percent of the time any sensible parent would refuse. If they did not refuse, the parent would chose a psychologist from a referral list (affiliated with a hospital ir reputable practice) who took Medicaid.
Ah, the township supervisor? No, I doubt that would involve him.
Erose, that drug ring was multi-county, but it was prosecuted by the PA Attorney General’s Office, by AAG Michael T. Madeira, who was elected DA later that year. There were geographic ties, but the Centre County DA’s Office had no role in it.
Rose, as a former employee of DPW, but a different division, I wholeheartedly agree.
There is something to remember, until 2012, neither Seasock’s nor Chamber’s opinions were admissible in court; Lauro could use them, but Gricar couldn’t. Even if this would informally have influenced Gricar’s thinking, he STILL should have checked Seasock’s resume; so should Lauro, for that matter.
Seasock’s qualifications in 1998, were substantially lower than Chambers’, in terms of both experience, education and even licensing. That decision was at least endorsed by DPW, and Lauro claimed never to have seen them, which might mean he even contacted Dr. Chambers.
I am a thorn between a Rose and an erose!
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2013/05/pennsylvanias_attorney_general.html
After reading this, I feel it is less likely much will come of Kane’s investigation into Corbett’s handling of the Sandusky case.
Corbett PROBABLY acted appropriately. Their first break came when someone sent an e-mail to Centre County DA Stacy Parks Miller that McQueary witnessed something; it came in October of 2010. Parks Miller is a Democrat who defeated former DAG Madeira; Corbett supported Madeira, strongly. If she confirms, that ends any question about Corbett dragging his feet with Victims 2-10. There is no way she’d cover for an opponent’s supporter.
The only question was on Victim 1. Sandusky was on the DPW suspected abuser list since the victim first complained. That inhibited his contact with children and caused him to resign from the TSM board. That helped prevent any continuing threat.
It still took Kelly about 10 months to prosecute, and they didn’t have all the victims even then. They didn’t have the e-mails spring of 2012.
Interesting Christopher Lee was facing charges at time Gricar disappeared.
What was the resolution?
http://www.centredaily.com/2010/07/19/2397458/southfield-sighting-silence.html
regarding Southfield sighting. At one time when I lived around there eons ago,
Southfield was a conservative middle class backwater. I associate it with mobster faction taking out Hoffa.
However, it built up immensely into a business center etc over last few decades.
I cannot imagine voluntarily chosing the Detroit airport as a gateway to Europe.
And if I were crossing to Canada to
disappear into a placid life, I’d drive to the north of MI to cross, and have.
I don’t think the credibility of the Southfield restaurant sighting can be evaluated without knowing who reported,
his familiarity with Gricar, and someone independent interviewing & verifying.
http://blinkoncrime.com/2012/01/02/the-nittany-nightmare-continues-more-financial-incest-at-psu-accused-perjuror-gary-schultz-head-of-nittany-insurance-pays-first-victim-payout-and-his-lawyers/comment-page-10/ contains e-work by erose & further down the page Beejay & Blink explain Christopher Lee’s ARD (for child sex abuse incident) granted by Madiera, I guess after Gricar disappeared
The witnesses in Southfield were a retired police officer who was also a composite artist and his daughter. It was prolonged contact, not just walking past him; they exchanged greetings.
It is a good singular witness sighting, but it lacks corroborating independent witnesses. I agree that the witness believed that it was Ray and that he was credible. I don’t find it credible that if Ray had faked his suicide and left on his own that he would be out eating in Southfield. Was the officer’s name published?
B
Thanks for the information on Lee. I do not believe it was linked to the disappearance.
Just a note. The AG’s confirmed that there was no other grand jury ever looking into Sandusky. I do not recall Gricar ever using one; they are NOT required for indictment in PA (though can be a useful tool for a prosecutor).
There was 3 or 4 grand juries that reviewed Sandusky until he was indicted. Iirc it is written in the indictment. You may be right about Lee, but with a victim refusing to testify, Madeira cutting an outrageous deal that I believe is now illegal and the Mother of the 2 victims taking them out of the country I have not been able to exclude it to my satisfaction. Plenty of PSU and Second Mile Interaction at Boal.
B
nature of the Southfield sighting: “The sighting was made by a retired police officer who worked as a composite artist, of all things. It was, in other words, a credible sighting.” http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=34475&hilit=Ray+Gricar
Caveat: Tony Gricar tweeted this Luke O’Brien never contacted him as Luke claimed he did somewhere. (twitter url below)
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-04-18-penn-da_x.htm contemporaneous press report. Patty’s statement sounds formulaic like Kaine H. And like Kaine she mentions an open-ended wait. If RG had an appointment he likely didn’t make it by phone or email as investigators had those records. He’d have made it in person then?
Interesting the only destroyed object was the laptop–and it was securely destroyed. Couldn’t have related to email – some sorts of files to be found only there but not on home computer. Did Patty have laptop password?
Roy’s son Andrew was 10 years old in 1996 http://www.mylife.com/c-11286900990 andrew gricar
What did Roy do at Wright-Patterson?
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/
decades ago a bro-in-law was an engineer on top secret weapons systems for LTV & had to travel up there episodically to use their more powerful computers.
Roy’s son Tony’s 2011-12 twitter
https://mobile.twitter.com/RayGricar
http://archive.org/details/tv?time=201202&q=tony%20gricar
More on Roy:
” He reportedly had been fired from his job as a private contractor at Wright Patterson Air Force Base in the days leading up to his death and had suffered from bipolar disorder.” from a dubious source again: http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=34475&hilit=Ray+Gricar
Roy in 1994 is VP of W-P employees union local & was the union rep litigating against the Dept of Air Force on an unnegotiated smoking policy
“On April 11, the Respondent, by Acting Labor Relations Officer Paul Hepp, wrote to Roy Gricar, Vice president…”
Roy – a union negotiator: “The parties met on May 18 to discuss the Union’s proposals. Management representative Ellen Round told Union Vice President Gricar that the proposals for a phase-in period and continuation of indoor smoking were inconsistent with the April 1 Command-”
https://www.flra.gov/node/15519
not reading closely or fully but imo the ALJ found for the Union.
transcript of interview with Tony Gricar
“GRICAR: Yes. Yes. My father actually had a long history of documented bipolar depression. So it’s a different case there. So he had a lot of issues in his last year that really made it apparent on his case. ” http://www.justiceforchandra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2616
2008 Ray G status
http://dailyitem.com/archive/x691283790?mobRedir=false
I find Tony Gricar’s reasoning RG was unlikely to commit suicide knowing the pain Roy’s caused his family irrelevant as reasoning like that would be unrealistic for a clinically significantly depressed person.
All the Roy press reports, except Tony interviews, vary. He was retired from W-P recently (as an employee) or he was a fired private contractor. working for self & fired by W-P? or fired by a private firm? Some accounts say he told his wife he was going to grocery, others – to buy mulch, another – for a drive. Tony said he was bipolar with a year of events.
I tend to believe he was a military or civilian retiree after the 1994 period when he was the Union VP carrying the burden of a trial vs the Air Force. Then was re-hired as a private contractor but ultimately let go for any of a number of reasons. Another site said Ray didn’t believe it was suicide. I wish Tony would comment on that, and disclose the nature of his employment.
At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist, of which the card carrying tin hats would reject me anyway, lol, I was always struck by Tony’s comments about his Dad’s fear of water and how it was odd he chose that method to commit suicide. Has his autopsy protocol ever been published? That said, the alleged duplication of the act by Ray is just silly and amateur, imo.
B
@JJ, I think Gricar did check Seasock’s resume and did not want him involved. Arnold tried to stop that interview, and one would think wanted to pursue other victims. From my hind sighted perspective seems someone wanted Seasock to come up with a report that contradicted Chambers report.
Your information about Gricar not being able to use the reports is interesting to me, and throws a thorn of sorts in my theories, but that is a good thing, and I appreciate it. No sense going down the wrong road.
I thought the whole reason the Sandusky case exploded is that from Jan 18, 2011 thru May 27, 2011, William Ryan was the acting AG when Corbett left office to be governor, and Ryan was the one that moved the case ahead. He served until Kelly was nominated and approved by the senate. Kane is the 1st AG elected since Corbett, and as Steve just posted, so ol’ same ol’ unfortunately. (We had hopes.)
@JJinPA. it seems K Arnold wrote a cheat sheet guide to your online ideas, but she is pedantic & I lack energy for 2nd hand interp. Have you a brief summary? Have you reflected on Blink’s question of any nexus between the child sex abuse charge pending against Christopher Lee (eventually made to effectively go away by Madiera) & the disappearance if foul play?
1. I know of no linkage between Lee and Gricar. Since Madeira handled the case, it would not have been tried during Gricar’s term (assuming t was Madeira). ARD would not be illegal in such cases. IIRC, the victim was a young girl, so there would be a link to Sandusky
2. While there was a suggestion of multiple grand juries, the AG’s Office released a statement that there was only one. Anything would have had been released on discovery and there would be files.
3. The Southfield witnesses names were never released, but there was a statement that there were other witnesses that said a photo of Gricar was “familiar.”
The other circumstances about the date and location are what enhances the sighting.
4. I strongly disagree with anyone who refers to this, a possible voluntary walkaway, as a “hoax.” Mr. Gricar, if he left on his own, did nothing to make it look like suicide or foul play. He easily could have written a fake suicide note. He could have parked the Mini much closer to the river. He could have told friends he was feeling depressed, if he wanted it to look like suicide.
He could have smashed his cell phone or sunglasses. He could have lift the car in a less public place, where a crime could have been less visible. He cut his finger, leaving his blood in the Mini, to make it look like a struggle. He did none of those things.
The people around on 4/16/05 jumped to the (not unreasonable) conclusion that it was suicide, but Mr. Gricar did nothing to leave that impression.
JJ respectfully you have your facts all wrong on this one wrt to Lee. I am not saying that it is connected to either Sandusky and/or Gricar, but there are some very interesting overlaps.
The victims were 3 pre-pubescent minors, more than one occasion, so technically today, ARD for a sex offense while ridiculous in the first place, would be illegal. Madeira handled the outcome, but the case was pending during Gricar’s watch. I have other source information I do not have permission to publish, but why the Hell would we think the climate for Lee was any different than it was for hushing Sandusky?
The victims were male. Connected or not, I stand behind my assertion that Lee got a hand slap and is a pedophile.
B
Rose, I can give you the two current murder scenarios I have.
Fould Play Scenario 1:
1. Mr. Gricar traveled to Lewisburg to meet a woman for a tryst. He had been planning to get rid of the computer, so he got down there a bit before the meeting and did it.
He met the woman, and they went off to a house, possibly her home or a vacation home. Something happened.
A. There was an argument that became violent. She killed him in a fit of rage or accidentally.
B. There was an accident or illness. Mr. Gricar well down some stairs, slipped in the shower, or had a heart attack. She had someone else in her life or didn’t want to be linked to a dead DA and she hid the body.
C. While unlikely, her significant other showed up, and there was an altercation where Gricar was killed.
In all cases, the body was hidden near where he died.
Foul Play 2:
For some job related reason, Mr. Gricar wanted to meet with someone, that either did not want to be seen with him, or that he did not want to be seen with. They arranged to meet in Lewisburg. He still wanted to get rid of the laptop, so he got down their early.
Something happened in the meeting, e.g., Gricar said, “I’m going have to prosecute.” Whomever he was with said, “Oh no you’re not,” and killed him. The killer hid the body. That could have involved PSU, but it also could have involved Centre County government or politics, Rockview Prison, or some other large institution where the killer would be worried about being seen by others in the institution.
The second one is less likely.
Note that in either case, it would preclude anyone on staff of the DA’s Office from being the killer. No one would think it unusual for Mr. Gricar to be seen with any staff member, even outside of the office.
another blogger reported on JJ-PA’s Southfield report.
http://theslamdunktrove.blogspot.com/2010/09/part-xvi-ray-gricar-missing-person.html?m=1
“chattering classes” just about sums it up
Kudos to JJ-PA for keeping the disposition of Gricar’s investigation alive.
@JJ- PA. Agreed, RG took no steps to make a suicide apparent & imo would’ve done were that the case.
Secondly, if the computer surefire smashup of hard drive were planned for arrival using the convenience of the River, why? why only that laptop? Why then?
What precluded his returning laptop to gov’t on retirement? something incriminating–himself or loved ones. Why then? He gad a few months to go & river wasn’t far away.
In re FP1. RG wasn’t the arguing type and he’d spent years avoiding signif others. Maybe he died in tge act a la Nelson Rockefella, but it strains credulity she’d “hide the body.”
Why do you think FP2 less likely?
No staff member would want to be seen with RG at an antiques mall the afternoon he disappeared.
It sounds like you think a voluntary walk away a reasonable conclusion.
sorry for typos –Rockefeller etal
B, the case may have happened during Mr. Gricar’s tenure, but it wasn’t before the courts until after his term expired, if Mr. Madeira handled it. There are a lot of things that do get carried over into the next term (the Rogers case was one such example between Madeira’s and Parks Miller’s term).
To the best of my recollection, it involved young girls, but I did find a source say it was boys.
Slap on the wrist, probably. Even that will warn others, however. Sandusky didn’t even get that in 1998.
It was boys. I have been impressed with your knowledge base in the Gricar matter and we are new to one another, but for future reference, I never, ever state something as fact if I am not sure.
From Ms. Arnold directly:
Significant changes occurred at the office fairly quickly following Ray’s disappearance in terms of previously-established policies and guidelines for case dispositions, as well as what was or was not appropriate for ARD disposition.
Ray was also firm about what was/was not appropriate for ARD disposition because completion of the program eliminates all record that the offense ever occurred.
One of the offenses occurred April 1 2005. Ray assigned Ms. Arnold. By the time the adjudication rolled around, Ms. Arnold asked for it to be reassigned.
And again, I don’t expect you or any other layperson to know this, but there is no such thing as warning a pedophile who intends to act out on their urges by molesting a child. There is learning what they perceive is a better strategy to decrease or eliminate risk, but if Lee ( and I believe that has been proven) is a pedophile, that did not even warn him. A pedophile is someone attracted to pre pubesecent children sexually. It is not treatable by any therapeutic means outside of removing the offender’s physical ability for arousal. Given the subject matter here I am obligated to address this.