Kyron Horman Missing: Civil Suit Against Terri Horman DELAYED AND SEALED- Prompted By NEW LEADS
Portland, OR- As many of you have been following since June 2010, there is a new development today in the disappearance of Kyron Horman.
As predicted at BOC, the civil suit brought by Deisree Young, Kyron’s Mother, against Terri Horman, Kyron’s step-mother and the defacto suspect in his disappearance has been granted an abatement.
In a sealed filing, motions by Assistant District Attorney Michael Schrunk and Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton were granted, delaying the suit . The motions included supporting affidavits that continuing the action as already ruled would compromise the investigation.
The decision presents an ironic twist .
Terri Horman’s lawyers originally fought vehemently to abate the action, but were unsuccessful. As recently as last week, the Judge in the case ordered medical records to be accessible to both parties to the action.
In Judge Kantnor’s decision to NOT abate the suit at the request of Attorney Peter Bunch for Terri Horman, the Multnomah County Prosecutors Office declared “no position” on the matter after being contacted by the court.
It is not known if that order prompted the request to delay the suit .
Sheriff Stanton, Eldin Rosenthal, Norm Frink and Stephen Houze declined comment at press time.
On Monday, Judge Henry Kantor granted the motions to abate the civil proceeding and ordered the motions and affidavits filed by the district attorney and sheriff sealed.
A hearing had been scheduled for Dec. 14 to hear Young’s attorney argue before the court to compel testimony from DeDe Spicher, an alleged witness in the case. Today’s ruling is likely to render a postponement of that proceeding.
Sheriff Dan Staton, told Oregon Live, it is based on early leads that are now panning out:
“There are a couple of investigative pieces that are going to open up,” Staton told The Oregonian Tuesday. “Our belief is they’re going to open up several investigative doors.”
He said the new “investigative avenues” are based on information collected in the early phase of the investigation that are now yielding some results.
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hmmm, oversight investigation by doj… transparent!? helpful?! “whistleblower” manning released film of us troops shooting people on the sidewalk (including a reuters reporter) and laughing about it was explained, they thought it was the camera they were aiming so its ok and they are found blameless. when doj said to russia we dont torture and wont seek death penalty, a whole lot of the comments online were “yep, we will just be sending a drone soon..” i wish, but doubt, that someone would use oversight and examine this case for finding kyron, or his remains. i dont think people with the authority to do that really care about a little child, a grieving mother, or human rights anymore. used to be proud to be an american from the steps of the county courthouse to the washington monument, sam.
A LOT to read on here today. want to reply to a couple of things.
Dede’s deposition (for D’s civil suit) is available in the File Room (though not James). She was asked incredibly personal questions that she answered, things in no way related to the case. It was only questions about the Hormans to which she took the 5th.
Desiree was NOT present at the courthouse yesterday. Attorneys only were allowed in the courtroom, and Rees. Kaine was also not present. Nor was Terri. We now know that both D and K had pre-arranged press conferences for later in the day at other locations rather than do interviews in courthouse hallways as usual. Media all knew this was the case as there were no reporters or cameras present in hallway outside courtroom as they usually are.
@MBSings. Sylvan worked at no charge, college tutors were free, you say.
This current or former pps employee’s nonprofit, for which I
have no doubt she get a salary, through fundraising & Donations,
to my knowledge has sole private systematic
Countywide PPS reading services delivery access for
their own program on school site for systematic paid
tutors that are presented to the public as trained quasi-professionals.
Services the school itself is mandated to provide at the El Ed level during the day.
Yes, it’s a good program, but
a misunderstanding imo of special ed reading remediation services (some schools may
use as a diversion from same) and should occur
afterhours, not during the academic day with systematic pullout
from the classroom. Founder is ER’s family member. She worked in the
system. Somethings contractors get connected that way. I expect PPS at Skyline was overrun with
contractors & subs, including tutors, painters & landscapers who
were friends of friends.
A clarity cloud raining on this muck covered mess would be grand, wouldn’t it? So sad that finding this sweet boy has not been anyone’s priority. Too bad there can’t be a fresh start….starting with that darn school – A CRIME SCENE, for God sake! And suspect zero – how about someone start talking about who he might be and how he got access to Ky AT THE SCHOOL! MCSO – shame on you. PPS – shame on you too. I’m disgusted.
“At some point we have to get divorced,” said Kaine Horman, in an interview later Tuesday. “We can’t be left in this state forever.”
Terri Horman’s lawyers are expected to file a motion for parenting time to allow Terri Horman to see her daughter, now 4 1/2 -year-old Kiara.
“In my mind, it’s too little too late,” said Kaine Horman, of any effort by Terri Horman to have parenting time with their daughter.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/07/kyron_hormans_mother_to_drop_c.html
Huh? too little too late…..well, tell it to the Judge, Kaine. The RO prevented Terri from parenting, and you sir, were the one who initiated the RO. This statement makes me very angry and JMO, I think it shows what his motive was all along. He has kept Terri away from their child and since he’s been *in control* for the last 3 years, *he thinks* Terri shouldn’t have any parenting time. In his mind, the Judge will see it that way. C’mon.
This is just all so freakin’ sad. This child needs an attorney pronto.
Ditto.
I am at risk of saying something I would not enjoy when describing the Father or a missing child-
So- I will just say this.
TMH agreed to a divorce stipulation from day one. So.. they could have been divorced pending…
Too little too late? Is he suggesting that she should have ignored a RO he filed?
B
One article states that Dede testified before the GJ within the past two weeks, and no arrest of Terri, so in my mind, Dede’s testimony proved she was not a part of Kyron’s disappearance, but did it somehow also prove Terri was not guilty? How could it? If Dede was not with Terri that morning, how would Dede’s testimony have anything to do with clearing Terri? Did LE really think that Dede was Terri’s accomplice, still? I think not. JMO, but I don’t think Dede’s testimony is what got the RO dropped. I think there is more on the horizon. I wonder if Terri Horman will be called to testify before the GJ?
Something’s made a huge difference in the direction of this case. Staton’s comments about briefing Kaine regularly….does anyone find it interesting that he did not mention briefing Desiree as well? Why would Kaine be briefed on anything more than Desiree was?
Btw, where has TY gone to? Why is he no longer by Desiree’s side? Could he not get a day off to come up to Portland with her? She looks so distraught, I’m surprised he wasn’t there with her for support.
So Spicher wouldn’t answer questions in the civil case and then as vw points out, Rosenthal motioned to have the Judge compel her to testify in those depositions. The case was then stayed, at the request of the DA & MCSO. We were not sure why, but I think it was that whatever Dede’s testimony was, the DA/MCSO did not want it made public. So they then bring her before the GJ, which is secret.
Whom is the DA/MCSO keeping secrets from? Why did Rosenthal even mention that Dede had gone before the GJ in the past couple weeks? I thought a judge in this case prohibited divulging that information long ago. Was that a deliberate leak? Who does the DA/MCSO want to make sure knows that Dede testified? Terri? I don’t think so.
She testifies, the RO is dropped, the civil case is dropped. I’m thinking Dede gave testimony pertinent to this case that involved someone besides Terri and perhaps exposed a fib. The question is who?
looking for Staton’s resume to assess his career trajectory, I found this
http://www.wweek.com/portland/m/article-11582-mobile.html#_Article
note: corrections union was Staton’s key to primary success.
Skipper also was the man who made Corrections mcso’s jurisdiction.
Note in article Skipper with his AA degree couldn’t pass the basic LE test-twice.
Speaking of what DOJ will do or not wrt MCSO, after the demonstrations against ICE
holds of jailed illegal immigrants, Staton formulated his policy this spring before
the next election of releasing all jailed nonfelonies (or whatever) despite ICE hold requests
so ICE could deport on Court disposition. I thought Staton was catering to hispanic public pressure.
Now I think he’s catering to Corrections Union who want fewer clients. That means Mult Cty residents
will live side by side with many convicted illegals, say on DUIs.
Staton’s trajectory
http://www.dan-staton.com/about/qualifications.php
(look down to Captioned Other Assignments as well as
Speciality Units
9 years search & rescue
7 years dive team
BEFORE that, Detective Unit
Imo in such a small agency trajectories differ but all seem
to include search & rescue as well as river patrol. The deciding
factor seems to be Union support, esp Corrections. No doubt why M Herron
is Union Pres. Also appear to be no qualifications
or resume highlighted training for detective, which as to Skipper/Staton
is an early career assignment.
Thanks all for the clarification. So she was never called to testify before the GJ in 2010, she was simply there at the courthouse with her attorney… Fast forward to November 2012, she took the fifth when questioned in a deposition for DY civil suit. Now they are saying within the past two weeks she was called before the GJ to testify.
Now after looking at those resumes, here is the extraordinary thing.
Both bios have been very comfortable with
MCSO jurisdiction and performance, lauding mcso
repeatedly. Despite the fact PPB had jurisdiction by govt
agreements over crimes on school property, so bios could
have used that to get real Detectives. with training and
experience, from PPB in charge. I have to ask why?
First probably both bios still conceptualize the investigation
as a Search operation. If mcso is nothing else but corrections,
mcso is impressive at Search. Second, Desiree is disadvantaged
being at a distance; Kaine, disasvantaged in RO dependence on mcso.
Third, Desiree with all due respect is in a bubble of family/friends
with their own resentments whirling around her. Imo she is unlikely
both psychologically and intellectually to step out from this bubble.
Kaine is in a 3-year bubble of having it all (girl, house, $, Lions share of
donations & positive public media attention, a bachelor’s life, etc)
to retain it all has had to maintain his persona of close collaboration with
Sheriff Staton. I don’t see either of these two pushing for fresh eyes and competently
trained detectives, ever.
Bios needed independent attorney advisors with a criminal law background from the get go
to assist them in evaluating the investigation. It woukd be a
worthy expenditure from public donations.
@erose #6
Thanks for that link: It was the only station that did a full coverage of the q/a post-DY appearance.
From Fox 12 (One of the only media outlets that is not a Kaine team-player)
Submitted to 12
Terri Horman’s attorney, Stephen Houze, sent a statement to Fox 12 saying he was not surprised by Young’s decision to dismiss the civil case.
“The lawsuit was unfounded and lacking in legal merit,” Houze said. “One can only hope that the dismissal of this meritless lawsuit receives the same degree of media scrutiny as was given to its filing.”
http://www.kptv.com/video?autoStart=true&topVi…
*******************
Obviously the “meritlessness” of this suit was not scrutinized by the media here or on Koin or KGW.
None of the “team players” are referencing the “real” reason the suit was abated and is not going forward. Wagner won.
Didn’t even have to try hard. Only to insist on fair play and in exchange of Rosenthall going forward and giving LE a depo on Dede, DY and TY would have to be depoed. And medical/mental records would be used in court.
Next day…DA’s office stepped in. Called for an immediate abatement. All those “investigative doors” opened up. Several of them, according to Staton.
I call BS on Rosenthall’s (via DY) justification for “dropping the suit”.
They never intended it to come forward again. Were damned relieved.
Got the depos they wanted, for LE, and didn’t have to be questioned in court.
Then could claim that they weren’t working with the DA’s office.
Wonder how Rosenthall found out Dede was being seen by the dreaded Grand Jury?
Of course, the GoFundMe was not garnering much revenue.
BLINK,
“Here” meaning Oregonlive.
It will be interesting to see Kaines reaction when Terri gets visitation with Kiara. Without the MCSO to back up Kaines claims. I have never read anything that could be proven in court that would prohibit Terri from spending time with her daughter.
-snip
Terri Horman’s lawyers are expected to file a motion for parenting time to allow Terri Horman to see her daughter, now 4 1/2 -year-old Kiara.
“In my mind, it’s too little too late,” said Kaine Horman, of any effort by Terri Horman to have parenting time with their daughter.
——–
What is that supposed to mean too little too late about Terri seeing Kiara Kaine and MCSO have kept this child from her mother for 3 years with no care to any detriment caused to this child by separation from her mother. I would not be surprised if in the end Terri gets full time custodial custody of Kiara due to Kaines flagrant disregard for Kiara’s welfare.
I also think that public records(new articles) of Kaines time spent away from Kiara ie. 3 hours daily at the gym after an 8 hour work day, multiple trips to car shows etc and weird behavior such as firing off his gun for 3 straight hours in his back yard are gonna catch up with him in a custody fight.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/07/kyron_hormans_mother_to_drop_c.html
Helllloooo? Comments on hold?
nope. Sorry, family day for me and a bit behind
B
btw my impression from reading online was Cogen & Staton tied their election fates together in a supportive, mutually friendly manner. Imo his Cogen relationship has been why Staton has felt so powerful, so let’s see what happens now. Will Willamette Week adopt him as their next public “outing?” I think WW owner
just wanted a stronger, broader angle/focus on the Sheriff than Kyron.
Rose says:
July 31, 2013 at 9:16 am
@Blink. I think that press release was CYA legalese in part drafted or revised by Carlos. If Mult County City Attorney were wise & proactive, she’d conduct an internal investigation of this investigation asap.
My word, if semi-literate passes for CYA these days from a LEO I intend to hide under covers of some kind.
Yes, this case has needed serious oversight, and BECAUSE of the internal history of the whistleblowing kind at MCSO it needs to be US DOJ, imo. Transparent is the only way. Duct tape not gonna work for change.
B
Rose/Blink….MCSO has a “voluntary grand jury”….if you haven’t already you might google ww and grandjury and mcso. They’ve had two articles at least in the past 5 years or so on the grand jury findings and recommendations. But despite grand jury and Mult. Commissioners slapping them on the hands, no major changes have been enacted regarding OT, cronyism, etc. Before Cogan’s little affair they were finally, the commission, getting angry at Staton about rampant misuse of budget. But i’m sure that’s taken a back burner to scandals. There is really no oversight on this investigation. DA and MCSO are linked. Commissioners are not working well with Cogan a liability.
Blink…just go back to pressers early on. And Staton’s regurgitating the “party line” over and over. When I first listened to O’donnell with the “white truck” pressers, and the deputies remarks, and Gates off-the-cuff one-liners….well…i’m not surprised a GED will get in an carry you thru to a 6 figure pension. That organization is a disgrace. It would take a Federal investigation. Luckily for Staton Houze is not going to have to take it up that far, IMO. But carte blanche for pockets from DA to Diane ….. what a lucky find, the Kyron investigation.
@Lauren.
1) She was subpoenaed to testify at the GJ in 2010.
She made an appearance. The DA posed no questions. Her
attorney indicated she would have answered if asked.
2) She was subpoenaed to give a deposition in Desiree’s civil case.
She declined to answer many questions (Const rite) upon advice
of her attorney who was present. Imo any member of Bar who
did not so advise would’ve been in jeopardy of loss of license.
3) She was finally subpoenaed once again by DA to GJ once again recently.
You can’t just show up. He finally asked questions.
Imo if she’d declined to answer any, Rosenthal would’ve dropped that tidbit
too. “She is cooperating” means when asked, she answered.
@TRuth. If a Judge compelled her to testify
despite her Const rights, she would have the
same immunity wrt to scope of questioning
that testifying before GJ gives. So I guess Rees
wanted to chose those Qs.
T. Ruth says:
July 31, 2013 at 4:24 pm
Helllloooo? Comments on hold?
nope. Sorry, family day for me and a bit behind
B
No problema, still a couple hanging out though. Hope it was a good family thing!
@Ode:
I’m with you, I don’t get the free pass at all:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_horman_search_may_have_s.html (July 12, OVER A WEEK SINCE KYRON WENT MISSING!)
“***At some point*** that day, Kyron’s teacher had marked the boy absent — district officials ***refuse*** to say wheN — but that didn’t prompt a call home because Skyline School lacked an automatic notification policy. That has since changed.”
So, if she doesn’t know anything why wouldn’t she just say so earlier?
She did. Repeatedly. Nobody believed her
B
Pardon my French but this whole thing is a s***show.
And poor Kyron is still missing, and if TMH is completely innocent then the impact of her not being there for her daughter is devastating.
Jmo
@CD. Whatever Terri fights over in the divorce, she has to have medical decisionmaking & educational decisionmaking, and a clause stating Kiara will never attend Skyline (imo that’s for the quality of educational instruction, not the abduction). She needs to borrow a page from lawyer Jenny Sanford who with a squirrelly husband left no parenting details out of the agreement, including specific college ed payments and umbrella insurance on property as well as no go in front of planes. That’s where a Stancyk would be helpful as a second mind thinking out every detail to protect & benefit Kiara and preserve decisions power in the event of conflict. In terms of ed–that’s TH’s field. I think all she has to do is get Kyron & Kiara’s medical records, and subpoena teachers and a few mutual friends to establish who’d been managing ed & med. She cannot expect cooperation from Kaine over any decision per his Statements. Every detail will have to be nailed down.
http://www.registerguard.com/rg/news/local/30247346-75/police-missing-locating-541-682-5111-amphitheater.html.csp
Police seek help locating missing 9-year-old boy
By The Register-Guard
Published: 8:43 p.m., July 31
Print Friendly and PDF
Eugene police said tonight they are seeking the public’s help in locating a missing 9-year-old boy.
AJ McElroy was with his family near the Cuthbert Amphitheater and may have left after becoming angry and threatening to run away, police said. He is described as 4-feet-11-inches tall with dirty, uncombed blonde hair and blue eyes. He was last seen shirtless and shoeless but wearing black shorts with a white vertical stripe on each leg.
He was reported missing at 6:13 p.m, but may have left 45 minutes prior.
Anyone with information about his whereabouts is asked to call police at 541-682-5111.
*************
Crossing fingers, saying a prayer that this little guy is just lost or hiding.
Rose, you reminded me of DDS’ attorney speaking in 2010 about his client and also giving an opinion (his) regarding TMH:
snips from KGW article dated
July 26, 2010
(snip)
Grand jury proceedings are not open to the public or the media. However, Spicer’s attorney did confirm that his client was subpoenaed to testify but did not give any testimony under oath Monday. He said she could be called back to testify in the future.
(snip)
“She’s getting asked questions, she’s getting treated frankly, like she’s a suspect, when she’s not,” he said.
Stavley also told NBC Dateline Monday that Spicher had been, and planned to keep, cooperating with investigators. He said that she had already shared text messages and emails sent to and from Terri with detectives.
(snip)
“I would be, frankly, surprised if Terri Horman did not eventually face charges in this case,” Stavley said. “I’d be surprised if the indictment didn’t come down.”
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/DeDe-Spicher-testifies-before-grand-jury-99252004-kyron-horman-missing-portland.html
I would point out that atty account is erroneous on the issue of DS giving any emails or texts with investigators. She testified in her civil deposition that she did not. If they have them, it was via search subpoena served on one of the parties.
I do agree Stavely thought TMH would be arrested- everyone did. His client was being told it was imminent.
B
Lauren says:
July 31, 2013 at 11:56 pm
So, if she doesn’t know anything why wouldn’t she just say so earlier?
She did. Repeatedly. Nobody believed her
B
Dede even said she did not know anything to people magazine as well as LE.
IMO LE told her if she would not say what they wanted her to say they would mess up her life. Which they did via the bio parents. Even though I think Desiree only mentioned Dede once or twice it was enough to spawn a hateful Facebook, interfering with her employment and general hate activities by Desiree’s stalkers.
I don’t think that Desiree and Kaine ever really believed that Dede had anything to do with Kyrons disappearance but they allowed all the vitriol to go on as a way to pressure her into saying what LE wanted to hear.
I hope Dede can find a way to reconstruct her life going forward.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/landscaper_tells_police_terri.html
July 2010:
Laura Rackner, Kaine Horman’s attorney, declined to comment Saturday night other than to say: “I just want to do whatever is going to help law enforcement right now.”
*************
Does anyone wonder why Rackner passed the torch to Engel? I believe, way back here when she slipped up and said this, which, IMO, is tantamount to admitting using Kiara as a pawn in this case in order to get Terri Horman to confess to something, she handed the case over to Engel.
I’m thinking this outfit decided long ago that they just might be among those to be sued by TMH.
Rackner knew after the failed sting she qualified as a witness, which would compromise/disqualify her representation of Kaine. She has no privilege
B
Actually, Blink, I was rather gobsmacked that an attorney in this case would make such a (public) statement to the media.
And none of us here knows for sure if TH is completely innocent or not, but why doesn’t just one reporter from just one newspaper ask the question, “What if she is innocent?” No one even pretends to be objective.
Lauren says:
August 1, 2013 at 12:06 am
Pardon my French but this whole thing is a s***show.
And poor Kyron is still missing, and if TMH is completely innocent then the impact of her not being there for her daughter is devastating.
Jmo
I am looking very forward to divorce finality. One all legal actions are done, bios will have no recourse
for real media attention on Kyron, but to stage media events calling for fresh eyes
by a fresh investigatory agency. They will have to reconceptualize from Search for Kyron
to investigating the abduction itself. Sheriff cooperate imo if bios step out to put this case behind him
before 2014 election.
Gosh, I just love the way this was phrased so succinctly.
thatkewlgirl
You realize, that Kaine DISMISSING the RO is an admission that there is no evidence an attempted MFH ever happened. And if there was evidence of it, Terri Horman would be in jail now.
To not grasp that shows a lack of critical thinking.
and also wish I would have thought to say this:
thatkewlgirl
MAXINE, will you please link to the document you cite in this section?
“They argued in court papers that those unrecorded talks were not protected under state public records law and could be disclosed despite the criminal inquiry. Multnomah County prosecutors, the county’s attorney and Kaine Horman’s lawyer moved to quash the subpoenas.”
Thanks in advance for providing access to the facts. It’s important in this case, as you’ve seen firsthand.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/07/kyron_horman_case_investigatio.html
Why KH is a party to the quashing seems very telling.
Now, from the article (same link):
snip>
Young said her lawyers advised her that the suit could not proceed without obtaining the investigative file in the case, which the district attorney’s office refuses to disclose to either side because of the ongoing inquiry.
In summary, it is the information that lead to the RO which is now being quashed by MCSO *and* KH which is part and parcel (some might even call the nexus) of the information DY sought in her civil case. What a circle jerk.
Question: If MCSO had to tell the truth, without the benefit of quashing or pleading the 5th, and the bottom fell out of the MFH theory, would it change the opinions and beliefs of DY and KH and others?
I too have wondered how TY can let his distraught wife stand alone at those press conferences. If it’s about his career, it shows lack of character to me, otherwise it conveys he says he does not support her position. Wonder which it is?
I think one aspect folks are missing is that PART of the criminal file has been disclosed- and that has been verified by sworn statements by Kaine and vis a vie his counsel. Rackner is quoted as saying she just wanted to help LE. That makes her an agent- but under OR law, she does not represent any party but kaine and privilege does not extend to her in that capacity. However data changed hands ( and by law as it contained as a basis) once it is provided outside of LE, it is subject to public disclosure. They would have lost that battle and should have a year ago.
Houze would have eaten O’Donnell alive- I stand by my assertions that any allegations of criminal wrongdoing as conveyed to Kaine were contrived to get him to go along with the ensuing surreptitious actions as presented based on LE theory of TH involvement.
B
Concerning KH’s reaction to the current events.
KH was not a party to the civil suit, and, if it had gone forward, might have been brought in, possible as a co-conspirator. One of the questions DDS refused to answer was if she had participated in a three-way with KH and TMH. While it is unlikely KH would actually be added to the suit, I suspect a lot of embarrassing information would come out, or at minimum, a lot of leading questions would be asked. If his deposition was publically released, like DDS’s, this could cause embarrassment, and possibly issues in the divorce. I believe KH 100% wants this case solved, but wants to avoid placing his own life under a microscope.
As for DDS’s testimony:
If she made any blockbuster statements incriminating TMH, there would have been an arrest.
She may have testified about TMH “venting” or threatening harm which adds little to what is already suspected.
The only useful testimony I could imagine that would progress the case without an immediate arrest would be if she incriminated a third party.
I suspect the enthusiasm brought forth about her testimony was simply a face-saving move when the civil case and RO failed.
Agreed.
B
“Respondent’s decision to defer this matter is in no way an agreement to maintain the status quo with Kiara,” wrote Peter Bunch, Terri Horman’s divorce attorney, in a motion filed Tuesday. “Respondent wishes only to act in Kiara’s best interest. Respondent does not, and will not, give up her right to seek legal custody and unfettered contact with Kiara. Petitioner’s efforts to withhold all parenting time is completely contrary to Kiara’s healthy development. However, under all of the circumstances, issues regarding parenting time will need to wait for another day, ***when additional facts can be obtained and presented***.”
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/terri_moulton_horman_withdraws.html
This was Bunch’s response when Terri first decided not to contest the RO. (*** are mine) Here’s my question. Since Bunch and Houze were now ready to approach this subject, they must have obtained the “additional facts” they needed to go forward. What do you think the “additional facts” might be and why would it take 3 years to get them?
Any ideas?
@erose. wrt longtime absence of Tony, I have been concerned that DY may have a Chas Ramsey situation–heroic, groupie following, losing contact with the basics of her functioning life when pushed & pulled out of her norm by the groupies and family of origin’s neediness.
Her priorities should have been her marriage and her job while mourning and keeping in touch with LE and an independent criminalist advisor. If her family of origin was so great for her, there were a few decades where that was not apparent. The impact of the Warriors on her ability to maintain her marriage, job and do grief work has imo likely been as devastating to her as Ramsey’s groupies & media ops were to him.
Rose says: August 1, 2013 at 12:19 am
Would be nice, Rose, if Terri read BOC..
T.Ruth says –
Whom is the DA/MCSO keeping secrets from? Why did Rosenthal even mention that Dede had gone before the GJ in the past couple weeks? I thought a judge in this case prohibited divulging that information long ago. Was that a deliberate leak? Who does the DA/MCSO want to make sure knows that Dede testified? Terri? I don’t think so.
______________________
Exactly what I was asking earlier, T.Ruth. Why Rosenthal to give this information and why now and to what audience? They (those “in the know”) certainly don’t care what WE think or know.
@Rose – Sylvan wasn’t exactly free, I don’t think, but free to the kids. I’m not sure whether someone got a grant, used Title I money, or tried an experiment.
@TRuth
while not knowing if actual evidence has come to hand, Kaine and Rackner/Engel have ridden roughshod over the requirements for the RO. working backward: the hearing from the renewal involved insufficient notice to Terri and her attorneys of a hearing; petition for renewal was not even been submitted prior to the hearing–entirely the judge’s idea to hold it that day; no facts provided ever for basis of RO and certainly no update of current activity at time of renewals for why it should be renewed. Seems to me, this provides a good basis for contest. Less obviously, if LE/DA had any evidence against Terri, some kind of charge would have been filed in 3+ years whereas early on they could be given the benefit of the doubt on an active investigation.
I have a question about Grand Jury. It’s been said that their term has been extended to hear more info on this case. Does that mean this grand jury has been “sitting” for 3+ years?
I’ve heard the comment over the years: “A Grand Jury could indict a ham sandwich!” Interesting in this case, Terri is apparently less guilty than that ham sandwich since after all this time there is not enough to indict her.
in response to georgia dad’s comment about kaine not wanting his personal life to be under a microscope:
through the first year of this case there was never any deep look into kaine in the press. i remember when one blog investigating site had members finding alledged photos of kh in compromising sexual situations and rumors of spouse swapping etc, the moderator told them there would be no more looking into it, he was a grieving father, etc. What if teri looking so damn guilty at the first pressor was her dread of their lifestyle being exposed and not anything to do with kyrons disappearance? I still find it inconceivable that tmh has spent 3 years under a micro, had people protesting at her residence, and no one questions kaine at all. With no gal and no public sightings of kiara doesnt anyone worry that she might have problems, does anyone worry if she has facial hair from time to time? if this wasnt a random unknown sz one theory early on was that people in “different” lifestyles bring all sorts of people into the house and lives of their children. In my opinion this is why kh shouldnt have been given a pass. An open look may have revealed a suspect early on that was way more plausible. i’m not better than any of the players in this horrible tragedy but i would hope, that if in their shoes i would be willing to bring out the skeletons in my closet if it might find my child. blink please feel free to edit this- i just weep for the children
They found the little guy from Eugene last night. He called home from another house. Thank God.
@January. If TMH is reading anything online, I will be sorely disappointed, but unsurprised given her history.
And the worst thing of all would be any emails or Facebook activity. Were I her attorney, all electronics would be in a lockbox. Electronic communications have fed into Desiree’s instability and unproductive activities imo, sadly.
(snipped, more @ link)
Kyron’s father, Kaine Horman, also dismissed a restraining order against Terri Horman, and their stalled divorce case is set to proceed next month.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/07/kyron_horman_case_investigatio.html
No mention in Max’s report any more about MFH. Why doesn’t a reporter ask Kaine Horman if he is not afraid for his daughter or himself without the RO in place? I mean, Terri can now have access to firearms. Terri can now visit Skyline school, of course she’d have to check in at the office and wear the right colored badge. Are they afraid?
Yes, I’m being snarky, but this is just the most bizarre series of events and yet no one asks any questions. I somehow visualized MCSO and the DA’s office being swamped with calls like this:
Oh my gosh, that evil killer Terri Horman can now come to our school, our neighborhood? She can have firearms? She can work out at my Edge gym?
those kinds of questions, or even better:
What gave you the right to keep this woman away from her child for 3 years if you don’t have the goods to arrest her? What in the heck were you thinking?
Something, anything…..but nothing from anyone. Is everyone in shock? Embarrassed? What is it? Weird, just weird.
reguarding my last post i wanted to say that i think peoples sex lives should be private-except when a missing child is concerned. if this had come to the light then the last three years could have been spent investigating things like: did you frequent any bars that you might have met anyone and mentioned you had a son? did you have people over that were maybe a little out there (creepy) and did they maybe overhear you talking about the science fair? are any of the “friends” you spent time with recently moved out of the area suddenly after june 4? this would help much more than “is th adopted? is that really her natural hair color? is dede really a certified gardener? le and the press doesnt mind asking these questions to tmh and dd. why doesnt anyone ask tmh and kaine why tmh thought kyron wouldbe better living with desiree instead of assuming she was acting with ill will, ask what was really going on. that is what is frustrating to me! kh could have an allergy tp hair, or maybe he just likes the shave look, i am not saying anything wrong with him doing that but no one has had the guts in the press to dare to ask. was he maybe involved in online interactions unknowingly with a sz? were either of them? this is just my opion with no desire to incriminate or judge them, i just think it would have been better to investigate these things all these years
“Judge signs civil no-contact order that requires Terri Horman to stay away from husband and daughter”
August 01, 2013
(snip)
“Judge Henry Kantor signed the civil no-contact order Thursday as Kaine Horman dismissed the Family Abuse Prevention Act restraining order he had just renewed for one year against his estranged wife.
The new order says Kaine Horman is awarded exclusive use of the home on Northwest Sheltered Nook Road in Portland, and Terri Horman can’t come within 150 feet of the house, Kaine Horman’s job at Intel Corp. in Hillsboro, or his gym in Beaverton.
Terri Horman is also required to stay away from the Skyline School where their missing son Kyron Horman had attended. He was last seen there June 4, 2010.”
(snip)
“The order, which will be in effect as the divorce hearings resume, also prohibits Terri Horman from entering or trying to enter their daughter Kiara’s daycare. Terri Horman agrees not to buy or possess any firearms or ammunition, it says.
The order also was signed by Kaine Horman’s lawyer Brett E. Engel and Terri Horman’s lawyer, Peter Bunch.”
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/08/judge_signs_civil_no-contact_o.html#incart_river_default
I suppose it would be inappropriate and kettelizing my metal to pick apart the sentence structure and grammar errors in that piece so I will not- How does one write that without a source link- and apparently the way I slice london broil?
B
Maybe I’ve not searched enough, but so far this “no-contact order” per the following Oregon definitions doesn’t seem to apply in this case.
Perhaps something has occurred that hasn’t been made public or perhaps there are broader applications afforded to the Judge?
There was nothing really reported on the RO dismissal, come to think of it.
Blink?
____
(snip)
What is the difference between a restraining order and a no-
contact order?
* A restraining order was placed on the abuser by the victim through a
court order. The victim is the one who petitions the court for this.
* A no-contact order is placed on the abuser by the State of Oregon after an arrest to ensure the safety of the victim. The judge or probation officer is the one who places this on the abuser.
* Both restraining orders and no-contact orders must be removed by a
judge. (However, a restraining order does expire after one year and
must be renewed by the victim each year).
http://lifestrategies.squarespace.com/storage/Dif.%20with%20ROs%20and%20No%20Contacts.pdf
____
(snip)
No contact orders:
A “no contact order” is an order in a criminal case that tells the defendant not to contact the victim. A judge can order no contact anytime during a criminal case or a no contact order may be required if the defendant is released from jail before trial and sentencing. A no contact order can also be a probation requirement. If the defendant violates the no contact order, he or she may be re-arrested and jailed. A no contact order is different from a “restraining order” like a Family Abuse Prevention Act order or stalking protective order.
http://courts.oregon.gov/OJD/OSCA/cpsd/courtimprovement/familylaw/domesticviolence.page
____
(snip)
Domestic Violence Unit – Frequently Asked Questions
What is a probation or post-prison supervision no contact order?
Persons on probation, post-prison supervision, and Interstate Compact supervision are frequently subject to “no contact” orders authorized by the adjudicating authority. “No contact” orders frequently prohibit persons on supervision from having contact with their crime victim, the victims family, and prohibits the person on supervision from being in proximity to the crime victim’s work, school or residence. While a “no contact” order has features that are similar to a FAPA order they are wholly separate and have distinctly different penalties for violating the order. Violations of a “no contact” order are addressed as violations of supervision conditions and cannot be charged as new criminal acts. Consequences for violations of probation or post-prison supervision orders fall under the purview of the issuing authority and may or may not result in the arrest of the person who violates it. There is no legal mandate for mandatory arrest for a violation of a “no contact” order.
https://web.multco.us/node/43994
wonder what kantor is thinking. the fact that there is no basis for RO ought to mean something. Kantor is clearly trying to maintain pressure on Terri to “confess”, a process initiated by DA and Kaine early on. But why? I thought the goal of law enforcement is to find the truth, who disappeared Kyron. Preventing Terri from seeing her daughter FOR NO REASON is simply cruel. Cruel to mother and daughter though undoubtedly satisfying to Kaine and Desiree. Why is Kantor risking his judicial future on this? Surely he knows it is out of line. Are Houze and Bunch up to it? Can they overcome this latest obstacle? I’m voting for Bunch and Houze.
While the circus continues, whoever took Kyron is still out there.
erose says:
August 1, 2013 at 5:06 am
Blink says:
I think one aspect folks are missing is that PART of the criminal file has been disclosed- and that has been verified by sworn statements by Kaine and vis a vie his counsel. Rackner is quoted as saying she just wanted to help LE. That makes her an agent- but under OR law, she does not represent any party but kaine and privilege does not extend to her in that capacity. However data changed hands ( and by law as it contained as a basis) once it is provided outside of LE, it is subject to public disclosure. They would have lost that battle and should have a year ago.
Houze would have eaten O’Donnell alive- I stand by my assertions that any allegations of criminal wrongdoing as conveyed to Kaine were contrived to get him to go along with the ensuing surreptitious actions as presented based on LE theory of TH involvement.
B
*********************
@Blink
“However data changed hands ( and by law as it contained as a basis) once it is provided outside of LE, it is subject to public disclosure. ”
so, is there then some reason this information would not be provided to someone who asked for it via the FOIA? We know that Rackner was privy to the MC sexts, as they were included in Kaine’s filings with her, but, do we know for certain that she was privy to anything else, such as RS and the sting? Is this why the sexts were at first held from the public, but then released? IIRC, Rackner and some media were copied in on a memo from the DA, or judge as to the release of the sexts. (Too, tired tonight to go look it up.)
Welllllll, I’ll be darned, I guess you can take my upthread post and throw it out he window. OR……maybe the calls I was speculating about actually happened. WTH?
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/08/judge_signs_civil_no-contact_o.html#incart_river_default
(snipped)
The new order says Kaine Horman is awarded exclusive use of the home on Northwest Sheltered Nook Road in Portland, and Terri Horman can’t come within 150 feet of the house, Kaine Horman’s job at Intel Corp. in Hillsboro, or his gym in Beaverton.
Interesting image choice of Jason Gates from over 3 years ago at Skyline.
B
Terri Horman is also required to stay away from the Skyline School where their missing son Kyron Horman had attended. He was last seen there June 4, 2010.
So okay, what is the difference between a “civil no contact order” and the FAPA?
The civil no contact thingy seems even tighter (within 150 feet) than the FAPA, wasn’t the FAPA “within 500 feet”?
Why do I get the feeling that this is all a bunch of games being played by the powers that be?
Says Bunch signed it, so, why? Terri’s guilty? Had he not, what would have been the alternative?
the hearing motion on FAPA motions to quash and subsequent FAPA hearing.
B