Kyron Horman Missing: Civil Suit Against Terri Horman DELAYED AND SEALED- Prompted By NEW LEADS
Portland, OR- As many of you have been following since June 2010, there is a new development today in the disappearance of Kyron Horman.
As predicted at BOC, the civil suit brought by Deisree Young, Kyron’s Mother, against Terri Horman, Kyron’s step-mother and the defacto suspect in his disappearance has been granted an abatement.
In a sealed filing, motions by Assistant District Attorney Michael Schrunk and Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton were granted, delaying the suit . The motions included supporting affidavits that continuing the action as already ruled would compromise the investigation.
The decision presents an ironic twist .
Terri Horman’s lawyers originally fought vehemently to abate the action, but were unsuccessful. As recently as last week, the Judge in the case ordered medical records to be accessible to both parties to the action.
In Judge Kantnor’s decision to NOT abate the suit at the request of Attorney Peter Bunch for Terri Horman, the Multnomah County Prosecutors Office declared “no position” on the matter after being contacted by the court.
It is not known if that order prompted the request to delay the suit .
Sheriff Stanton, Eldin Rosenthal, Norm Frink and Stephen Houze declined comment at press time.
On Monday, Judge Henry Kantor granted the motions to abate the civil proceeding and ordered the motions and affidavits filed by the district attorney and sheriff sealed.
A hearing had been scheduled for Dec. 14 to hear Young’s attorney argue before the court to compel testimony from DeDe Spicher, an alleged witness in the case. Today’s ruling is likely to render a postponement of that proceeding.
Sheriff Dan Staton, told Oregon Live, it is based on early leads that are now panning out:
“There are a couple of investigative pieces that are going to open up,” Staton told The Oregonian Tuesday. “Our belief is they’re going to open up several investigative doors.”
He said the new “investigative avenues” are based on information collected in the early phase of the investigation that are now yielding some results.
Related Posts
Related Posts:
4,315 Comments
RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI
TY. analytic kudos.
vw says:
“I do know that the last one she did of the new contact-order was NOT in print in the NP the next day.”
IDK, vw, could be because the timing of MB’s knowledge and reading of the order did not meet the time deadline for the printing of the newspaper and/or fall under the paper’s definition of breaking news to warrant a “hold the presses”, so to speak.
OJIN, I think, offers subscribers a quicker access to what has been entered perhaps due to some sort of internal (and possibility mandated) protocol.
Question for Blink.
If a civil no-contact order is violated, wouldn’t the violated party call the police? And if so, from what database do the police draw from to verify the existence of such an order and the details and provisions of the order?
____
ps
It’s my understanding there is no spousal privilege regarding a crime involving a familial child of at least one of the spouses.
agreed, in the event the criminal charge is just that. The ruse involved an alleged separate criminal incident, of the mfh.
B
vw:
FWIW, IIRC, Terri’s first lie detector test wasn’t ’til Monday, but I do believe you’re correct that she had already been heavily questioned that day/night.
Also, wasn’t TY’s ldt done down in Medford? I found that odd as heck too, or was that just a rumor? Can’t find the info now, but here was a O’live Comment, from 4winds:
OregonLive.com
Of course Desiree and Tony passed his police department did the polygraphs. Conflict of interest I would think. How do we know what questions they were asked? Were they asked the same questions as Terri? MSCO led the investigation and allowed this and allowed a fellow police officer and his wife to be polygraphed in Medford. Would they pass if another polygraph was done outside of his work?
Friday, June 03, 2011, 3:21:01 PM
Without disclosure of the testing protocol and interprets, there is no way to know.
B
blink says
“TMH hypersexualizes and identifies with the former bikini bod, so does Kaine, so now what?”
What is the basis for your (and media) belief in TMH’s hypersexuality? Yes she got involved with K while he was still married but IIRC TMH was no longer married while K had a pregnant wife. and the sexts. neither of these add up to serial or concurrent sexual partners.
I never said she had serial partners or concurrent partners. I have no idea. I was referring to the context of her sexts, and other investigative information. Not judging, observing. I would also offer that she was married in a bikini and Kaine in his trunks. To say this couple was not focused on outerappearance to involve sexual overtones would be inaccurate. I have no problem with that as they are consenting adults, and do not feel that makes for dangerous promiscuity or anything.
B
9.Deputy O’Donnell’ testimony concerning evidence of any potential criminal wrong doing of various individuals uncovered during the course
of the investigation could jeopardize any future prosecutions, and
reveal the mental impressions and opinions of prosecutors and investigators alike.
http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/district.attorney.pdf
You’re right Blink it was DA Rees who used the term, but he was also referring to LE, investigators, specifically, Deputy O’Donnell’s mental impressions might be divulged.
Good grief, haven’t they been divulged already? Ummmm, let’s see, they have the mental impression that Terri is responsible for Kyron’s disappearance. Swell, how about motive, means & opportunity. Would love to hear that part.
As it stands now, the only mental impression I’ve seen them truly convey to the public is:
We *think* it’s an isolated case, but we can’t say that for certain.
I hate the fact that to this day, no one addresses this in the media. You can’t say for certain? Why not? Over three years later, it’s time to ask that question again, and if I were a reporter, I would not accept “there’s nothing to lead us to believe that this was not an isolated case”. I call BS on that if they refuse to say why and still can’t say they’re certain it was isolated, then my mental impression is the opposite of theirs:
This may just NOT be an isolated (family) case, perhaps you were wrong.
Someday, sooner than later, I hope they find Kyron, I still hope he is alive. I hope all the tips (whatever the heck they were) that didn’t pan out over on SI in all those searches were red herrings, and that he is not dead in the water somewhere. But whatever happens, if his disappearance did not involve someone from Kyron’s family, then shame on LE for planting those seeds of hate in the first place, and shame on all of them for giving the school a free pass.
I don’t feel the need to repeat my thoughts on whether Kyron is alive, we all know what they are.
HOWEVER, for someone that does not agree- why the effing eff wouldn’t they be clanging the pots at MCSO saying.. we have lost 3 damn years of ground finding this child because of your incompetence? Why isn’t Kyron the priority above all else to take a deep look at the mess that this case has become?
B
@blink
First time poster but following your coverage on Kyron Horman’s case since June 2010. Way above my debate skills and I had believed in Terri’s guilt in the beginning.
Your last comment with analysis hit every sticking point for me. I realize now I have been unable to see past Terri because I really have no other answer and I have always trusted police to be honest and do the right thing. Everything you said I know you have been saying for a long time and maybe we all just really hoped you would be wrong and Kyron would be found alive somewhere. I don’t know what your non-writer job is but would you be able to say if you work for Stephen Houze? If you don’t you should be. I know him from many years of work and you even sort of sound like he does.
Anyway, I am so sorry about this little boy that I felt I had to speak up instead of just being mad at the step mom because that is not finding him and I am fearful he will never be found.
I have not been retained by Atty Houze, and I would not be able to write about Ky’s case if I were- I would find that in conflict.
I appreciate the nod, and more than that, I appreciate that you took the time to weigh in as an advocate for Ky.
B
Maybe some of the mental impressions that LE had came from this person early in the investigation and now LE does not want to talk about it.
-snip
PORTLAND, Ore. — The Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office received some unsolicited help from a former military investigator this week in the case of missing 7-year-old Kyron Horman. Edward Dames, a retired remote viewer who once worked with the Army, worked with his team for three weeks to try to determine the physical location of the missing boy, who has not been since June 4 at Skyline School in northwest Portland.
-snip
A remote viewer is a specialized psychic once used by the CIA and U.S. military during the cold war. Dames was the inspiration for the movie “The Men Who Stare At Goats.”
—————
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8288.70;wap2
Ok, did I miss that originally, or forget about it? Guys- watch Suspect Zero- it is the origin of the term, and based on similar asset- Ben Kingsley is haunting and I found it to be very, very true to profile.
B
We were talking about the school dumpsters and the recycling program the other day when I saw that FBI Portlandia spoof interest, anyway, here’s a 2008 document that describes many of whom were involved in picking up the recycling (lots of different ones, from paper to electronics) and trash. Dumpsters says “Waste Management”, is that really the name of the company? Anyway, if anyone is interested, it also does say there were two farmers who came and picked up scraps every day. I know who one is, but I never heard who the other is. Someone with chickens.
There was sure a lot of comings and goings on in that school. The notices for activities that went on with The Green Team were published throughout the community in the Skyline Ridge Runner and they welcomed neighbors who didn’t have kids at the school to join in. (big sigh.)
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/17316287/Oregon-Green-School
@t.Ruth
That is exactly why I brought it up… Good catch
I’ll be eagerly awaiting any further news of the decomposing hand….
Sometimes, I look back at these old articles and I just got mad all over again. This article I believe was on the Sunday following Kyron’s disappearance, 6/6/10:
“Superintendent Carole Smith would not comment on the specific details of the timeline from Friday. Deputies have said Kyron’s absence went unnoticed.
“Normally, when a student is marked absent, that goes down — depending on the school — throughout the day. The school secretary collects and enters it into the student information system and then, in most cases, the attendance calls it out,” Shelby said.
The district did not release any details on when or if information about Kyron’s absence was collected by the school. Shelby said that information is part of the sheriff’s office investigation.”
http://www.kptv.com/story/14789221/boy-still-missing-normal-school-day-planned-6-06-2010
We have Shelby telling us, right there on Sunday, that the attendance records are part of the investigation. Why in the hell, didn’t LE take possession of them if they were?
Blink,
If this allegation of solicitation for a mfh is a ruse/charade/lie concocted by LE, what would RS have been testifying about to the Grand Jury?
His version, or whatever the DA steered the conversation to it wished to grant immunity for. The GJ is supposed to hear evidence and testimony similar to that which would be heard in trial, but obviously the burdens are very different.
His interpretation of TMH saying my husband would rather die than give me a divorce?
If the DA was smart, he asked him how he was hired, if he ever met Kaine, how he was paid, and if he ever met Kyron- the end.
B
@Grasshopper. wrt hypersexualized. That does not particylarly refer to sexual partners. She could be monogamous & hypersexualize. Kaine too. (whom I would also attribute the adjective too. Relates to a lens thru which one engages tge workd & presents ones persona. Negative connotation is not necessary. Can be adaptive for some–many media stars the public follows and spends $ on acieve status thru a hypersexualized persona. I didn’t think twice when I read the adjective bcz I remembered to pix–from weightlifting to wedding to the MX restrauant. Whatever it was, and sorry guys, Kaine was in the same body image system (& pics) with his endless gym time. What Blink doesn’t say is body image and hypersexuality may fit into Borderline. I don’t think Terri rises to it (leave that to a testing psychologist), she was too goal directed over his life with James. But, if so I bet 3 are in this case.
re “Why not add the school, drop TMH and preserve the suit?”
Because she couldn’t pay and ER was not working pro bono?
Because in my opinion only hell would freeze over before an attorney
sued PPS where his wife’s business works on site in elementary schools
during school hours
providing reading tutoring to el ed students in lieu of academic and spec ed type
reading instruction PPS is legally obligated to provide during the academic day?
So, with others associated with the investigation promoting up previously (ie Herron, Shults),
where’s O’Donnel working, what was his trajectory? He was a relatively young employee (40s)?
Is this ODonnell? In Oct 12 a K9 patrolman scouting for drugs?
“Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office seizes 5 pounds of methamphetamine with a street value of $250,000
MULTNOMAH CO. SHERIFF’S OFFICE
9 months, 1 week ago
On October 29, 2012 at approximately 10:45 p.m. MCSO Deputy O’Donnell and his drug dog Spencer conducted a traffic stop near NE 162nd Avenue and NE Fremont. Through the course of the traffic stop Deputy O’Donnell conducted a search of the vehicle and discovered three pounds …
read more at Multnomah Co. Sheriff’s Office”
I am not familiar with lead investigator turned beat cop career trajectory?
B
wow…i just got caught up on Ky’s case. I remember first reading about it on your blog the day Kyron disappeared and my heart broke for the little boy with the big smile so proud of his awesome tree frog exhibit. I admit, at first i was so sure TMH was involved, but now I just can’t see it. I have never flip flopped on a case like this before. i don’t really have anything to add to the discussion on this case that would be beneficial, but thank you to blink and all the critical thinkers who post here for trying to find a morsel of truth and something that would lead to Kyron in what has been a completely botched police investigation. i know cops/detectives/etc aren’t perfect (i’m married to one lol) but this is getting beyond ridiculous and bordering on criminal imo. There had better be an internal affairs investigation going on but for some reason I doubt it. I bet they are about trying to save face and PR spin now. IMO, the victims here aside from kyron and his parents are also TMH, her older son and sweet little kiara who lost her big brother and her mother.
what is very scary to me, and should be to any parent is the fact that there is most likely a suspect zero still running around thinking he fooled everyone.
i remember reading somewhere that they have a sketch or description of suspect zero. If this is correct and they haven’t shown or questioned TMH about this individual they should lose their jobs.
a reasonable description of hypersexualized.
http://women.ag.org/Informing_display.aspx?id=2558&langtype=1033
i would like to mae a few comments after reading the last few days posts.
first about vw comments re the new mutual no contact being usual in nasty divorces, i agree with your assesment of that except the part about tmh no contact with kiara. i dont recall that there is a parnting plan, even if there is and kaine was awarded custody, he cannot refuse tmh visitation without grounds /legal grounds/ to do so. when this was about to be contested kh went to no contact order instead of fapa. to include no contact with the child with no legal reason is perposterous. that is the diff between common no contact orders between divorcing parties and kh trying to slip in tmh still cant see her daughter, and i beieve houze said they will be contesting that and also the whole custody issue as well. if not for the mfh allegations and le interjecting in the ro there would have been even a court issue on a temp parenting plan where kh would have had to prove his allegations. kh would not have automatically been named full custodian, if not for the allegations and secret impression of le tmh prob would have been named primary custodial parent, or joint custody. imo attatching.the no contact with kiara is again being allowed with no proof and approved again by a judge and meritless. just my opinion because msco will again offer no legal reason and kh cannot. i am thinking blink is spot on referring to financial motivation by kh
one thing i thought after reading blink comments on all the searches is that i think that all the searches except the origonal “he may have wandered off” have been in relation to tmh’s whereabouts, her cell pings, etc. if msco is wrong in the direction they seem to have taken (tmh primary suspect) then all the searches and $ were in vain.
re clink comments about kaine saying tnh is dangerous or whatever he said for the ro and then posting kyron pics on semis etc. i missed that obvious, he cant have it both ways, “he is coming home” “she may have killed him”. (i miss my computer so badly, i could dig up and post exact comments with references, sorry) he cant have it both ways but what the heck, he has, with no ramifications,
for 3 years, why change stratagy now?!
the pass i might give him is if he truly believed the mfh was true when le told him of it. origionally the theory floated was that tmh “secreted” kyron. i think i remember in the early news dy, kh, saying this. and in some email or comments section tmh possibly alluding to this. tmh not saying in anyway she did that, but on supporter fb and comments early on it was alluded that the homelife was abusive and tmh might have just shipped kyron somewhere for a week or two, and he would be returning soon, that by tmh supporters, and some thought tmh under another name, before houze was retained. this was the beginning of the tmh secreted him and needs to tlk now! desiree seems to still believe this i think.
then we had the mfh and before that kaine saying she wouldnt have been capable of harming kyron but might be involved in, which turned into tmh is so dangerous i fear for my life and kiaras as well. if kh knew it was unfounded that would be really bad. if he got caught up unaware that would be different. now though it is 3 yrs later and kh knows it is either baseless or un-provable. there was some presser about the middle of the first year where kh said something to the effect that it might not be tmh at all. does he now wonder if kyron was secreted, deceased, if le is about to have their and his case crumble, or is he in a state of i can raise lots of money by keeping this going and not have to pay child support and win for kaine again! i dont know but sometimes wonder.
Hi Truth,
T. Ruth says:
August 4, 2013 at 2:36 pm
vw:
FWIW, IIRC, Terri’s first lie detector test wasn’t ’til Monday, but I do believe you’re correct that she had already been heavily questioned that day/night.
xxxxxxxxxoooxxxx
I was surprised at that, too, that it was done, the first one, by Saturday. It was during that interview with DY and KY… one from Olive in which there wasn’t a text, IIRC. Desiree was correcting Kaine, and said TMH’s was Saturday and so his was Monday or Tuesday. They didn’t mention TY. It was an odd interview, one of the first, which struck me, as is often in this case, that the reporter was “Leading” the bio parents to find “sinister” things about TMH in the everyday events. Like the fact that she had lost a lot of weight.
I’ll try to find it for you. I might be wrong about the day. It’s a textbook interview in which they were “leading” the interviewees to come up with potentially “psychopathic” tendencies. Occurred often in the early months when “everyone” was trying to come up with a “reason” TMH would hurt her son and/or be covering for it.
@Rose.
on Schults’ watch, with Schults’ supervisee.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/02/multnomah_county_corrections_d_1.html
wonder why she had to go to another County’s jail for safety?
Getting on the Schults’ bandwagon? Wonder if he, along with the others, slapped this rapist on the back in after he was indicted?
I followed that case. Even wrote to Maxine asking if the victim had someone from a Rape Hotline to assist.
I talked with her mom on Olive. Victim did have a past. But didn’t deserve this. Ol’ boys club and DA got him off, basicall. He was convicted. Lost his job. Still, he’s living free …. on a PERS income that’s more than i’ll ever have as a teacher.
The wheels of justice move slowly, if at all in, in that institution of “justice”.
Her lawyer, court appointed, was going to sue.
Is O’Donnell a patrolman in the “newer narc k9 unit”?
O’Donnell still on I-84 K9 duty making traffic stop on 2/1/13
http://www.oregonherald.com/oregon/local.cfm?id=2980
Gates says Spencer at a routine traffic stop netted mj
http://www.ci.wood-village.or.us/wp-content/uploads/February-12-2013-City-Council-Minutes.pdf
Hope Gates’ understanding of probable cause re K9 sniff/car search was updated after Supr Crt ruling shortly after.
this May, drug dog Spencer remains productive wrt a parked car.
http://www.ci.wood-village.or.us/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/May-14-2013-City-Council-Minutes.pdf
A pic
http://www.katu.com/news/local/K-9-helps-deputies-find-cocaine-14-pounds-of-pot-during-traffic-stop-192738541.html?m=y&smobile=y
maybe O’Donnell got the K9 idea from TY who had one.
Hwy patrol & narc stops doesn’t sould like a promotion imo
I hope Captain Gates explanation of warrant requirement was just condensed for the minutes sake- geeze.
B
Did Kaine ever claime to have passed is LTT?
Yes
B
At Truth:
You’re right Blink it was DA Rees who used the term, but he was also referring to LE, investigators, specifically, Deputy O’Donnell’s mental impressions might be divulged.
Good grief, haven’t they been divulged already? Ummmm, let’s see, they have the mental impression that Terri is responsible for Kyron’s disappearance. Swell, how about motive, means & opportunity. Would love to hear that part.
From Rees: Memo to Support Quashing Depos
7. While the case has yet to be resolved. the investigation is currently active and the GRAND jury continues to receive evidence and consider the testimony of witnesses presented by the MCDA’s Office.
8. Based on my eighteen years experience as a criminal prosecutor, I believe that the disclosure of information, sources and the methods and reasoning behind investigative tactics used during the investigation could ALERT potential suspects to key evidence, DISSUADE other witnesses from coming forward and otherwise UNDERMINE law enforcement’s efforts to LOCATE Kyron, and uncover and prosecute any criminal conduct associated with the disappearance.
Key Evidence: If they had any…TMH would be in jail.
Dissuade: Well, Dave Stenson, right under Kyron’s room and in SIGHT of everything on that side of the school, still came to O’Donnell. Really, if they release their impressions of TMH, it will dissuade others from coming forward and saying they really have something on her. Is that what they are STILL banking on?
Undermine: Who would do that? Someone will say…. “we DON’T want Kyron found”?
Grand Jury? Yes, he and the DA can call up a GRAND jury at ANY time they want to. Doesn’t mean anything.
This was all grandstanding, IMO, Truth.
And Kantor wasn’t buying it. He did trade the depos for the Divorce to continue, post-haste (I hope) and dropped the R/O.
It will all depend on the divorce. I really think they have all played their cards. The DA/MCSO get a pass. I was up at Skyline today. It’s sad. Lots of raised beds in front of the main entrance and 5 different messages on the main door cautioning everyone to sign in. No signs or posters, or mention of Kyron. But three doors, from the gym, from the maitenance rooms, and from the middle of the hall….steps away from Kyron’s room, that led out to a possibly deserted playground, covered basketball court and parking area.
On the positive side, if TMH is NO LONGER in fear of losing her life or daugter maybe she has figured out lots of things that might lead to Kyron being found.
Or might HAVE.
I don’t know about the no possession of firearms being part of this no-contact order for the reason of a “nasty divorce”.
Again, I would have to read it, but it may be a mutual no contact order and if so, we know Kaine has purchased firearms since June 4, 2010. However, I do know that to be standard language whether civil or criminal.
B
OT Factoid. Couldn’t resist sharing. She has since passed, but wondering what she would have to say to her since long lost cousin Lindstrand about the current state of affairs. (You have to click on the link and read the lady in mink story).
Plumlee turned 100 years old on April 29 and celebrated with a big party the next day with 50 family members and friends at The Stafford in Lake Oswego, where she now resides. To do all the things she has done you have to be at least 100 years old. Plumlee is the oldest retired policewoman in Portland.
‘I guess it was successful,’ Plumlee said of her big shindig.
That’s a good guess. Guests included Multnomah County Sheriff Daniel Staton; Lt. Mary Lindstrand, once her long-lost cousin and now a policewoman herself in Multnomah County; and most appropriate of all, the oldest living male retiree of the Portland Police Department and a brother officer, Frank Springer, a mere 99.
http://portlandtribune.com/component/content/article?id=6674
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sybil_Plumlee
vw says:
August 5, 2013 at 12:01 am
@Rose.
on Schults’ watch, with Schults’ supervisee.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/02/multnomah_county_corrections_d_1.html
wonder why she had to go to another County’s jail for safety?
Getting on the Schults’ bandwagon? Wonder if he, along with the others, slapped this rapist on the back in after he was indicted?
I followed that case. Even wrote to Maxine asking if the victim had someone from a Rape Hotline to assist.
I talked with her mom on Olive. Victim did have a past. But didn’t deserve this. Ol’ boys club and DA got him off, basicall. He was convicted. Lost his job. Still, he’s living free …. on a PERS income that’s more than i’ll ever have as a teacher.
The wheels of justice move slowly, if at all in, in that institution of “justice”.
Her lawyer, court appointed, was going to sue.
——————————-
There is a little more to the story at this link. I couldn’t find the status of the suit she was going to file. This does explain his colleagues reactions a bit better. It may have been for her protection that she was moved to WA County, or maybe they had more female supervisors or a more secure arrangement.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/09/former_multnomah_county_jail_d.html
@Rose
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/09/former_multnomah_county_jail_d.html
And who negotiated the plea deal.
None other than Rees. Shopped around to find someone to blame the victim.
Pathetic.
Even more disturbing. Articles have been edited since inception. That “patting on the back” of Miller by the MCSO boys, after the arraignment? Gone.
I believe TMH was immediately targeted. I remember an early article where Kaine stated they become suspicious of TMH the day of the incident because her story kept changing. I don’t remember the exact quote but I initially had the impression that he (Kaine) was questioning her. On later reflection, I suspect that LE may have been doing the questioning and Kaine may have been present, or the results given to Kaine by LE.
This, like almost all the evidence implicating TMH, is second or third hand unverified information. I don’t know if TMH materially changed her story, or if these changes were simply the result of telling the same story over and over again.
It would not surprise me if KH immediately held TMH responsible – not necessarily in a “you did it” fashion, but likely in a “it happened on your watch” sense. If the marriage were nearing an end, which is quite likely, this emotional response could be exaggerated.
What I would like to know is: What was the school’s INITIAL report to LE on the day of the disappearance? It is quite plausible that the school suggested that Kyron may have left at the same time as TMH. I am not suggesting a conspiracy, as such a statement could be a good-faith statement based on early, incomplete, and possibly erroneous information.
I believe LE had targeted TMH well before the polygraph and MFH allegation. I suspect the polygrapher suspected her guilt prior to the test
@vw. I think plea deals occur on cases like this all the time.
What she needed to do was retain someone like ER & file a civil suit and garnish the pension.
Arguably it’s a civil rights suit. She was jailed & at his mercy. But her past makes the suit worth less to anyone but
a crusader such as Rosenthal’s resume portrays. Like a pedophile, I bet with enough publicity it’d turn into a class action.
This question by PDXcoast:
PDXcoast says:
August 4, 2013 at 3:26 pm
snipped
@blink
……..I don’t know what your non-writer job is but would you be able to say if you work for Stephen Houze? If you don’t you should be. I know him from many years of work and you even sort of sound like he does.
I have not been retained by Atty Houze, and I would not be able to write about Ky’s case if I were- I would find that in conflict.
I appreciate the nod, and more than that, I appreciate that you took the time to weigh in as an advocate for Ky.
B
Reminded me of this:
Panda says:
October 24, 2012 at 6:14 pm
Do people ( such as supporters of a poi, or even people hired by defense attorneys) ever post on these types of forums for the purpose of directing attention away from a poi, and towards anyone and everyone except the poi?
ALL THE TIME
B
Panda- please to splain your position- I wish to know if I should be offended or not, lol.
B
certified team:
“3/7/2013 BOBBY O’DONNELL & SPENCER MULTNOMAH COUTNY S.O. DET REID”
http://www.opca.com/clubportal/ClubStatic.cfm?clubID=1224&pubmenuoptID=12252
@vw:
Thanks, vw, I remember the video you’re talking about, yes, I remember Desiree correcting Kaine and saying their poly was on Tuesday. I just thought they’d said Terri’s was the day before, no matter. I think maybe it was this KGW video, but I can’t get it to play anymore:
http://www.kgw.com/video/featured-videos/Raw-Horman-parents-QA-98080844.html
That video (from my notes) is what made me think that DY & KH thought Terri was lying, based only on the fact that she herself said she’d flunked the polys. (Her own worst enemy.) Because when a reporter asked them why they thought Terri was lying, they didn’t have an answer. The answer from Desiree was something like I’ve known her for a long time and I know she’s lying. Kaine’s answer was that she’d flunked the polygraphs and we just want her to be honest. Seems strange to me also that TY would think it odd that she had to take a second poly, and that he would not mention to her that perhaps they (LE) were just trying to see how she’d react to them telling her that, but he did not. He told Kate Snow that the poly is what made him believe she was guilty as well:
http://www.today.com/video/today/38410535#38410535
Mr. TONY YOUNG: I was watching the investigation right from the start.
SNOW: Kyron ‘s stepfather, Tony Young , is a detective in Medford , Oregon . He first grew suspicious when police submitted Terri to more than one polygraph.
Mr. YOUNG: I thought that something must not be right. Something must not be allowing them to check her off their list.
SNOW: Isn’t it possible, though, that she was just nervous? That she didn’t pass her lie detector test with flying colors because she was emotional or upset or nervous?
Mr. YOUNG: There’s more to it than just that. The information that you’re given, does it — does it hit your ear and sound right? Does it make sense?
Ms. YOUNG: She couldn’t explain to them for about two hours worth of time where she was or what she was doing.
(Question here: How did DY know that Terri couldn’t explain to LE two hours of her time? Was this supposedly during the ldt? Was the family made privy to Terri’s ldt?)
I thought that the KGW interview was a partciularly interesting interview, too bad I can’t get it play any more. If Terri was *told* she flunked, as a LE “tactic” that they don’t now want to reveal, along with their “mental impressions”, and this was the sole reason these two or three, thought she was lying, wow.
Anywho, I’m glad you sent me back lookin’ around because I found this from Staton which came out on July 2, right after the failed sting and it made me wonder what in the heck he meant by this?:
http://www.katu.com/news/local/97705124.html?tab=video&c=y
Sheriff: Terri Horman being cooperative
(snipped)
He said the family is involved with the sheriff’s office and that the “bulk of the information that we obtain in the course of this investigation is going to come from the family, solely.”
(The quotes came from KATU, not me.)
A few posts hanging out in the wind since yesterday.
This is an interesting read:
http://restrainingorderabuse.com/restraining-order-q-a/
What’s the purpose of a fake restraining order?”
There are many. Here are some: to spitefully subject the defendant to public humiliation and/or to ruin him or her personally or professionally (petty revenge), to gain custody of children or possession of property from a domestic partner, to terminate an illicit relationship (or gag an extramarital friend or lover so s/he feels intimidated and can’t speak to your spouse), to lame or discredit a romantic or business rival (exes’ new spouses or love interests are popular targets), to gain power or leverage over someone (stalkers have obtained restraining orders against their victims), or simply to get attention. False criminal allegations are difficult to substantiate, usually require you to give testimony before a jury, and can backfire if you get caught making them and possibly land you in jail. By contrast, the burden of proof on a civil restraining order petitioner is minimal to none (“I’m afraid!” sometimes suffices), the inconvenience is minor (a few minutes with a judge in a closed chamber), and perjury—if it’s detected at all—is generally winked at and never prosecuted. See also this page.:
http://restrainingorderabuse.com/what-is-restraining-order-abuse/
@ Pandas. Sticking my nose in. It’s my guess as moderator Blink knows poster identities and would moderate out duplicitous friends of any party unless they add caveats reflecting their position in support of and probably why. That confidence is one reason I trust this thread.
Personally I haven’t seen “supporters” of TMH here, just people committed to an aggressive investigation of integrity,
media coverage of integrity, the public good, and judicial and attorney ethics a la the American Way. I see foremost concern for a child Kyron Horman, and concern for both his parents in areas where some posters feel they are getting Bad Advice. pdx used the word debate; I don’t see this forum thread as debaters but as a community each with unique contributions. No one for example is more valued than Malty. No debate, just a firm pov. I am glad to see GA Dad from time to time recently too.
fwiw, I think there is no shortage of readers/posters that might agree with much of what is discussed here, and still feel TMH is or may be involved. I think it is fair to assume that most believe LE usually gets it right, and a screw up of this magnitude is unlikely. I also think it fair to say before a few years ago, I might have agreed.
I should say that a degree of specificity in my training and education is slanted to case work where some sort of LE issue has caused a need for review from the FBI, or in some cases full jurisdiction, and as such I am precluded from discussing same publicly. But in a general sense, while this case might be the most contemporary and expensive example, it is by far NOT the most egregious eff up I have studied.
As an exercise the other day, I asked the nice mechanic servicing my vehicle if when he was done, would he mind operating on my left distal fracture of the ulna with non-displaced ligature damage. He laughed. Good for him.
B
http://m.fbi.gov/#http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/faqs
“If a child is missing and possibly kidnapped, but no interstate transportation is known, will the FBI begin an investigation?
Yes. The FBI will initiate a kidnapping investigation involving a missing child “of tender years,” even though there is no known interstate aspect. “Tender years” is generally defined as a child 12 years or younger. The FBI will monitor other kidnapping situations when there is no evidence of interstate travel, and it offers assistance from various entities including the FBI Laboratory.”
—–So all along, even without an interstate element, the FBI could’ve had lead jurisdiction due to Kyron’s age.
Imo the Portland DA & his staff would have fought that to the mat bcz then DOJ would’ve had the big media prosecution. (fulltime on case ADA Moawad had recently had bad press in a trial; this offered the opposite.)
And MCSO? Well, they’ve had to give some of that appropriated money back, not to mention loss of all that overtime.
Speaking of overtime, DA’s Office got a lot too. I thought gov’t attys got comp time, not pay, or just gave their devotion to the office.
What a tragedy no one is beating the drum for FBI to take over this case investigation.
blink-LOL– I didn’t mean to imply it was you. I took your comment “All The Time” to mean that there are some here who may be associated with THs attorneys. JMO.
Panda- please to splain your position- I wish to know if I should be offended or not, lol.
B
Ok, then I will please to ‘Splain. My affirmation to you was general- of course folks wish to insert influence for whatever means, for reasons to influence the case. I started this site and my work with the commitment that I would moderate it personally, with a few exceptions which were announced due to my unavailability- and that moderator has BOC clearance, so to speak, and I think moderated less than 20 of almost 200,000 comments.
I am on deadline, or I could easily make this a filibuster about integrity of posters and sources, but allow me to just say this- in any case that I work on personally, I work for one person. That is the victim in this case, Kyron Horman. This wee man is my soul focus and I work against the grain or with the grain, but my soul intent is to recover this child.
This child who has no voice of his own, deserves to be the priority, regardless of where the evidence leads, who effed up his case, who is embarrassed at being wrong or learning they were right.
He is just a little boy and I strongly believe folks are losing sight of that very real fact. That would be folks with too much ego or adverse priority in the way.
B
I wouldn’t be surprised at all if TMH initiated or was associated with abduction and disposition of Kyron, human nature being what it is. Personally, I wouldn’t even need a motive package. People do loathsome things.
The only arguments I see against are 1) how Houze has conducted her representation; 2) her deportment over the last 3 years; 3) her lack of competence to carry out said crime without some physical evidence. 4) all the loving mother pics & activities I discount, because people can flip out. But someone flipped out didn’t plan this crime. And, it seems inconsistent with both her foibles & strengths of the preceding adult decades.
I am not going to pepper this post with my own adage. Well done.
B
@panda, interesting question, not sure why you’re asking, but here’s my take:
I think most of us are just looking for the truth. The only people I recall truly supporting anyone in particular here were supporting Kaine, and they did not like some of the questions we were asking, so they left.
The last thing LE told us publicly was first: “Everyone is a Person of Interest”. Then: “Terri Horman is not a person of interest and not a suspect at this time.” Then: there are 60 persons of interest we’ve looked at. So what are we to do, but speculate.
The Truth, Accountability & Justice. That’s what I want to see, and if possible, Kyron of course. I came to this forum for the same reasons as Rose, it seems most fair and most trying to get to the truth.
What if KH outsmarted everybody, trying to get rid of an inconenient wife?
What if KH got someone he trusted to lure Kyron away from the school and his daddy then secreted him somewhere and has been seeing him off and on for three years, or at least until he finally gets rid of TMH and doesn’t need to pay any kind of support.
What if KH finally gets his divorce after “Oh…say, maybe five years…” and then Kyron suddenly appears, maybe left somewhere where somebody could find him and take him to his daddy.
For KH it would be win-win …he gets his babies, he gets to avoid support or alimony, and keep the house and the Mustang or whatever that car was … and can go on his merry way with a partner of his choice.
After all, he “cooperated” all the way with LE, so he could be patting himself on the back for his Masterful Plan.
Well, Anything is possible, I guess.
Even a SZ.
@GeorgiaDad says:August 5, 2013 at 10:23 am
I believe TMH was immediately targeted. I remember an early article where Kaine stated they become suspicious of TMH the day of the incident because her story kept changing.
This is so sickening to even try to wrap your head around, but it certainly could be what happened to Kyron.
http://www.kptv.com/story/23049538/report-469-child-victims-of-sex-trafficking-in-portland-in-last-4-years
Prayers for Kyron and his family.
B – I love your use of “soul” in lieu of “sole”, in your reply to Panda above, how appropriate!
B
The reason, imo, that TH was originally suspected was the doctor’s appointment. I was highly suspicious of TH at the time that the teacher reported TH creating confusion over which Friday Kyron was to see the doctor. That doctor’s appointment was the single most incriminating piece of information for me to get past.
It is a she said she said between TH and the teacher. If TH lied she must have had something to do with Kyron’s abduction. Why would the teacher lie? It took me a long time to think to question why the teacher might want to present the story in this way. Maybe it was even subconscious. She “lost” a child on her watch.
I agree with this. Second to that is the call she made about shirts or something to try to get them for Kyron to take to his Mom’s that weekend. I also believe the call from the school to DY was actually prompted by TH as in, does anyone know if his Mother picked him up cause she decided to attend after all?
B
T ruth…. waste management is an actual garbage/recycling company.
If it is possible that a sz took kyron from skyline without being detected or leaving evidence i still think it is possible that tmh could have had him abducted and that afterwards it went awry and that she doesnt know what happened to him. i think this because she didnt fight the kiara ro and i am wondering why, with so many le errors that houze hasnt done anything in all these years. I dont think an innocent person would likely stay at mom and dads ofline and with no interaction with other pple for three years. She may be totally innocent but these things keep that old doubt going. I still think a more in depth look into kaine would shed light on the whole case also. I wish i could say i am interested in this case soley for kyron but i believe kyron is dancing with the lord and the other children in heaven. I am concerned now for kiara and that desiree may learn th truth. Perhaps i am jaded but if i recall back when i followed this case closer, i have never seen kaine express any real emotion over the loss of his son, i cannot understand his actions at all and that has left me with less sympathy for him. I absolutely am sorry for his loss, i would never want to go through that. I am not commenting on le because i am just so cynnicle about that right now. This is the only forum where i believe you can share your opinions without censorship if you suspect poi or staunchly defend them. Thanks blink for that. If le had followed her example i think this case would be solved by now. (blink, please dont send me back to river patrol because my posts are too lengthy)
@MBS
Thanks for the link. Did it lead you to this one::
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/01/second_lawsuit_brought_against.html
Nos convinced this former employee has a stong enough case to send a message to MCSO.
Was hoping the other girl had/has advocasy to pursue her case? Maybe WCDA hooked her up with such..
@Panda
Here is what I think about the possibility of people posting blogs etc on there internet in order to sway public opinion.
If public opinion mattered in criminal cases then OJ would be have been convicted of murder as would have Casey Anthony and Zimmerman. Its pretty clear to me public opinion on the internet does not amount to squat once the case goes to trial. I cant believe that any attorney with a brain cell would actually pay posters.
IMO The purpose of this site run by Blink is to compare ideas and examine facts in an effort to arrive at a valid speculation of what happened to Kyron.
What I see in MCSO/Multnomah County judicial is a flagrant setting aside of the constitutional rights of an individual. MCSO is also aided by the press in Portland which is a pretty scary thing. The Press are supposed to tell us the unbiased truth of the news and let the people decide what they think. But what is going on is the press is trying to push the misrepresentation window just enough to sell their media. Media which they receive because as long as they go along with MCSO’s story they get what they believe is exclusive info from law enforcement to sell their stories with.
Where is freedom of speech here?
Whats really scary is I see posters who would like to be done with individual rights provided to us by the constitution and torture, question, deny civil rights to Terri Horman based on media hype and misleading statements by Law enforcement. Do these people even know how many Americans have given up their lives so that we can have these civil rights under the constitution.
I think its shameful. Before this case I did not realize how many people would like to see mob rule with no constitutional rights accorded to individuals.
Has anyone here read Animal Farm by George Orwell?
JMO
Please forgive my rant.
@mas-
Respectfully, I will not approve those posts without the factual sources to back it up. You cannot post here stating something as fact, and then ask readers to fact check it.
Please tell me you are not caught up in one those underground chat discussions where posters just say anything and folks believe them.
Someone sent me something the other day that DAD was DeDe’s cousin and lover, or some permutation of same, LOL. Oye.
@cd. You’ve provoked a realization in me re Portland press. I thought it great when WW said bcz Cogen limits our questions, we won’t interview him. And, I drew the obvious conclusion that’s why no coverage in WW on the KH investigation in years. What a righteous press! I was wrong. You’ve made me realize that editorial stance equally harms the public good, if not more. Where would the country be if the W Past had said Because Nixon limits our questions and won’t answer most, the Post will leave the press interview room in a huff? No, they both interviewed with the rest if tge press and cultivated other sources. Now I fear even the smartest of new age men owning the Post as he’s a cultural product of the Pacific Northwest, & I really do think journalism schools there differ from the south, midwest & NE which had led in journalism schools & muckraking local institutions. The WW owner is married to the AG, steeped in Dem politics, and had to resist his Rabbi imploring him not to out Goldschmidt. It seems to me on these big stories, like Kyron, WW throws the initial hardball, then has no followup game.
@cd, I love your rant. Particularly about the media. Agree 100%. I don’t know what the deal is here in Oregon, (I’m originally from the SF area) much of the news here is just a copy of a copy of a copy of some larger paper’s stories, with a few words changed. Drives me nuts. What ever happened to individuality, getting to the bottom of things, sending out your own reporter to get “the rest of the story”, as Paul Harvey would say. I miss him and I miss reading the SF Chronicle of yesteryear.
Sometimes I think vw & grasshopper have spent more time researching this story than any reporter. For which I thank them, both. If I lived closer I would join them.
Speaking of mob stuff, did anyone see this comment on KATU, I don’t know if it’s true or not, but if it is true that a reporter is befriending the *haters* it’s scary as heck.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/Kyron-Hormans-parents-due-for-court-appearance-today-212508111.html
Thanks Southernmom, it is sickening. Until Kyron went missing I never realized how many sick f’s there are in the world that keep this commercial exploitation of children going. Some stats from the full report of the youth in PNW:
C.
Avenues of Exploitation
Gang connection
”
Gang connection‖ indicates that youth have either been exploited by gang members,
are affiliated or members of a gang th
emselves, or that gang influence plays a large
part in their lives.
49.1% of the 159 CSEC youth
currently served
by DHS and SARC have a gang
connection.*
*This figure reflects cases that are currently open. Information regarding gang
connections was pro
vided to the researchers by DHS case managers, and the
Executive Director of SARC.
Exploited by Family Member
11.1% of victims have been exploited by a family member.
Family History of Exploitation
19.9% of victims
come from families wit
h a history of
e
xploitation
*********************
So, 50%, gang related, should we be going back and looking at the perhaps more than coincidental dead body found up Rocky Point area? They never did release a cause of death for that guy, which I found really odd.