Jodi Arias Trial: In Her Own Words.. How I Killed Travis Alexander With HIS Gun and HIS Knife
Photo Courtesy AP Pool
Phoenix, Arizona- In today’s highly anticipated morning testimony, Jodi Arias finally “gets there”.
After weeks of what can only be described as the dog ate my defense testimony led by Kirk Nurmi, Jodi Arias explains the events leading up to and during the murder of Travis Alexander.
Arias describes an irate and menacing Travis who bounds from the shower, causing her to drop his new camera and pouncing on her, knocking her to the wet tile floor.
“ A five year old can hold a camera better than you.” Arias stated Alexander screamed at her among other threatening expletives while she struggled to break free.
She then ran to the master bedroom closet and apparently using the Spiderman techniques she absorbed via osmosis from the alleged Valentines gift, retrieved a gun she claimed Travis owned over two feet out of her reach while he was sprinting behind her.
She pointed the gun at him, did not realize it went off and then Travis, still coming at her, stumbles to his knees on the now bloody tile beneath him. ( Editors Note: As I have always said, I believe the order of this injury is true and is important to the charges against her)
Enter gratuitous memory gap.
“I have no memory of stabbing him.” – Jodi Arias
Although Arias admits to having flash backs, she states she cannot remember any other details with the exception of her crouched in the bathroom covered in blood and drops a knife she believes was upstairs used by Travis to cut ropes he used to tie her up to the bed.
She did however, have the presence of mind to grab the ropes, the gun, apparently removes and loses her shoes and has no idea what happened to the knife she used to stab Alexander 29 times and slit his neck from ear to ear.
Next memory she is driving in the desert with the gun she alleges was Travis’s when she pitches it out the window at a random location, then puts the ropes in a dumpster behind a gas station and washes blood off her hands.
Pause for Arias innocuous driving babble and road scenery.
“Why didn’t you call 911 and tell them what happened?” Kirk Nurmi asks his sniffling but tearless client.
” …He attacked you, why did you feel You messed up pretty badly?”
“This time it was different, he had done it before and nothing happened, it was heightened.” Responded Arias.
While approaching a check point in Utah, she feels like she will be apprehended there.
Arias decided to do a “whole bunch of things” to cover up she was ever there.
So .. “I called his phone to leave a voice mail”. For nearly 16 minutes she says she tried numerous times to leave a cheery voice mail to ask as if she was not present in Alexander’s home.
“I just thought they would be listening to his voice mail, so I just thought it would throw the scent off for a while.”
– Jodi Arias
Yes, she actually said that on the stand. Defense Attorney Kirk Nurmi was observed writing a note to co-counsel Jennifer Wilmott to send an assistant out to Sam’s for an industrial size supply of Tums.
I made that part up. Testimony continues following jury lunch break.
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I did here her say she wanted her stuff taken. Did she want
Her things backed that were marked. I forget what she gave jw
Not what she said Myers, fyi.
B
My problem is when did Jodi decide to kill
Was she going sneak into Mesa to let Travis know he better take her to
Cancun or she will show up in Cancun and tell all their secrets to everyone
And he blew her off so she decided to kill him
Or did she plan the trip to kill him
I think both are premeditated
I hope so
Blink writes:
Peeling this onion is a supertask. The only thing I am sure of as a non-diagnostic professional, is that we know less than we think we know about Ms. Arias, imo.
B
————————————
All we know for sure is that Arias has lied. That seems to be the only thing everyone agrees on.
I think the expert’s testimony has cancelled each other out, and caused a kind of mental fatigue with all the discussion of the pyschological aspects.
As much as I liked Demarte’s approach and presentation, I don’t know if it has been a slam dunk to pre mediation. But I do think she has succeeded in deconstructing the idea that Arias was in a fog.
Agreed, and Investigator Brown.
B
And I think it is still anyone’s guess as to what the jury will do.
Who are the next witnesses for the prosecution?
and yea, I hope DeMarte gets her stuff back.
It was an interesting day for Dr. Demarte and JW. There appears to be some real holes in Demarte’s experience that should be easy to fix if she recognizes them. I think she will in the future become a real capable person in her field. There is nothing that takes the place of making certain that you never stop learning. IMO Dr. Demarte was pushed too far too fast in making her responsible for a staff in a practice.
She does appear to have the capability to stand her ground very well. However, she needs to obtain the video of herself on the witness stand and study it to learn a few things about removing distracting things such as her hair falling over her right eye and the fact that she turns up one corner of her mouth (the left) when she is in disagreement with something.
I hope Wilmont will do the same regarding how disorganized she appeared at times. She also needs to learn more about the differences in approaches taken by those practicing in the field of mental health. Wilmont has a cute little smile and needs to learn to use it to disarm those she is questioning about a tough subject.
I believe that this jury learned a lot more from Dr. DeMarte’s testimony than from Ms. LaViolette. We will see soon from the volume of questions from them.
Jodi is a real mess. She is at the point that she thinks whatever she does is ok and does not realize that society has rules regarding behavior that cannot be made to fit her thoughts of the moment.
The fact that she is getting sick or appears to do so is IMO poor eating (maybe on purpose) and she cannot get away from the fact that the day of reckoning is getting close. That tension will produce migraine headaches.
whodunnit-
i agree with your april 18 9:07pm comment-
aspects of each expert testimony is helpful but each seems to cancel out the other-
especially when regardless if you believe all three or not IMO it all has little to do with the questions of premeditated cold blooded murder or selfdefense
I can reason that Jodi may have been subjected to harsh treatment in one form or the other by Travis
I can even reason that there may have been a physical altercation or two-
I can reason she may have PSTD after the killing
and i can reason she suffered from Borderline personality
disorder
I can also reason that Jodi acted with malice a forethought in several instances IRT simply formulating the premeditation in the instant she went and got the gun or a knife or between each stab the Gshot and the throat slit-
I can also reason that she may have been in a fog during a certain point and lost some memories although not the huge gaps she claimed-
What i can not reason is that she feared for her life that day that moment- and acted in selfdefense and applied reasonable force as to save herself — not according to JAs own testimony-
She had choices and she made them- she was scared she went to flee then decided not to- not because of remembering an instance of fear but an instance of an apology-
add to that she chose to get the gun- and she chose to stand ground- not flee she chose not to warn him, and she chose to release the safety or at least to cock it and then aim and shoot- she did this even after being taught never to point a gun at another human being loaded or not she was not “cornered”
Then came the knife after she had released herself after she was free and Travis was on the ground shot- she could have left she didnt-
at that point the fear was a clear victor and it wasnt the guy laying on the ground shot it wa the woman standing over him
Jodi Arias “untouched and alive” (quote from Intensity Dean Kuntz)
So i can believe there was some DV I can believe there was some BDP issues I can believe there was some fog and i can believe there was some fear- but not fear of imminent death or egregious bodily harm that would negate JAs actions
Thats where I am stuck – and I think the jury will be stuck there too-
despite the evidence despite the 18 days on the stand-
Nearly Every scenario seems to be still in play –
Im Still waiting for all of the rebuttal and closings etc
Prayers to Travis family
Prayers to Jodis family
and prayers for the jury
AJMO
Peace
Guess it’s true what they say, “Out of the mouths of babes—”. The jurors are no experts. In their mind it’s less about who is experienced, and more about who is believable. Dr. DeMarte clearly came out ahead. JM chose wisely. Hope you all have a wonderful, restful weekend.
Good Morning Blink and Blinksters.
I could not watch the trial yesterday I need to catch up.
Could it be Ms.D talkes about her Stoff that was stolen? Because she thinks that someone took it to sabotage her testimony ( wich had no succes ) and is looking at the trial…
Myers says:
April 18, 2013 at 8:12 pm
I did here her say she wanted her stuff taken. Did she want
Her things backed that were marked. I forget what she gave jw
Not what she said Myers, fyi.
My apologies,
She asked about materials taken?
It appeared to me that JD was speaking about notes which may have been “borrowed” during testimony to mark as exhibits. It did not seem she was referring to her stolen laptop, etc. from the home break-in unless there is an upcoming hearing in that vein.
Noteworthy how highly organized JD is with her notes and files, locating and pinpointing data within seconds. As compared to (DOCTOR) Samuels who fished and flipped through reams to perpetuity.
Classic Samuels: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRD8MMMsOtE
@Mom3.0 says:
April 18, 2013 at 11:03 pm
I agree with your entire post. The trial has primarily been focused on the DV theory. But, I have faith in the jury system and their ability to sift through the DV “smoke screen” presented by the defense and Jodi will pay for the consequences of the horrendously brutal crime she perpetrated upon Travis Alexander.
Who did Dr. D ask for her stuff back from? Sorry I missed it. Do you think her computer has been recovered by LE?
mom 3.0 writes:
So i can believe there was some DV I can believe there was some BDP issues I can believe there was some fog and i can believe there was some fear- but not fear of imminent death or egregious bodily harm that would negate JAs actions
Thats where I am stuck – and I think the jury will be stuck there too-
——–
Actually, you are NOT stuck.
The defense ‘s case is that it was self defense, with an adjustment of ” reasonable person” standard.
The defense is claiming that Arias was abused and suffering from PTSD which affects Arias ability to judge the situation as a ” reasonable person” would. They have stated that her reasoning was the same as a reasonable person who has been abused would have.because they are asking that reasobale person be adjusted It is incumbent upon the defense to PROVE why.
The defense has not convinced you that Arias believed she was in fear for her life, or that in order to save her life, she had to kill him first. That is a guilty verdict.
You state that you believe “there was some fear- of imminent death or egregious bodily harm that would negate JA’s action” THAT is the point. The defense has not convinced you that Arias believed she was in fear for her life, or that in order to save her life, she had to kill him first. That is a guilty verdict.
general thoughts-
Look at the overkill. If you cannot believe that this degree of violence was equal to the threat posed to Arias, she is guilty of aggravated murder one.
Your questions seem to linger about pre mediatation as put forth in the scenario by the State.
THINK.
THINK.
Put the pieces together.Use your logic. What makes the most sense?
The defense is asking you to consider mitigating factors. They are asking you to first define the emails and language as domestic violence. Then asking you to beleive this was ENOUGH domestic violence to make Arias fear for her life, and require her to murder Travis in order to be safe.
That is a subtrefuge , and the only reason the judge has allowed all that now, as opposed to the penalty phase, is to do everything she can to prevent a mistrial- she is duty bound to allow in all factors that could affect this case.
Borderline personality disorder does NOT affect ones behavior in terms of excusing homicide, the way that PTSD would.
It is a personality disorder that existed before and after the murder.
This diagnosis is relevant in that Demarte looked at the same evidence as ALV and Samuels, and came up with a different diagnosis, said she did not have PTSD before the murder, and that she did not find evidence of transient global amnesia during the murder. What Demarte is saying is that , yes, there is something wrong with Arias, but it is not anything that interfere with her ability to know exactly what she was doing when she murdered Travis.
The defense is saying that BECAUSE of PTSD and transient global amnesia, Arias has a lessened responsibility for the homicide, and they are hoping the jury will use this as the basis that she did not pre meditate. They are, in essence claiming it was a spur of the moment thing- and spent 18 days of testimony by ONLY TWO ” experts” hoping that the sheer quantity of time on the stand would give what their experts said more weight.
As you have seen with Demarte, an expert’s opinion can be conveyed in a matter of hours. That alone should illuminate that the defense is using tactics, as opposed to relying on facts.
And as to ALL the ” psychological theory” NOTHING either side said refutes that this was an overly agressive crime, or proves that she didn’t think about murdering Travis before she did. To me, all the experts testimony is a wash.
again- THINK. There are facts, of what Arias actually did before during and after the murder, that refute the claims of the defense that all of this was just a set of innocent co-incidences. How many co-incidenes do you need before you can say, hey there is something larger at play, and the sum of all these actions shows intention?
You have ONLY Arias word that she did not plan this.
And that is what it comes down to. Do you beleive Arias was incapable of making a decision to kill Travis, and that it just ” happened” because she was so scared she would be killed when she dropped the camera that instead of leaving immediately, she pointed a gun at Travis, and the gun went off accidentally? I don’t.
For the sake of all battered women, and I am one,it is vital to illustrate where responsibility lies. In THIS SPECIFIC case, there is NOWHERE NEAR the evidence that has been shown to illustrate domestic violence in cases where Battered woman syndrome succeeded.
And verdicts in court cases set precedents.
If Arias gets acquitted of the two charges before her- pre med or murder one, the verdict will be saying that ANY non cohabitatiing person engaging in sex in an uncommitted relationship, living a thousand miles away from each other, anyone who has received electronic communcations that neither cited or involved physical threats ( from someone a thousand miles away) can be considered a victim of battering to the point that this person can be alleviated of responsibility for murdering her sex partner.
Don’t fall for it. Don’t fall for the concept that Travis emails and IMs constitute a pattern of unprovoked and repeated domestic violence. Don”t fall for the rhetoric that Arias is a ” survivor” of domestic abuse. A survivor of domestic abuse is someone who has experienced it, and changed their path so that they no longer suffer , and do not inflict the fate they suffered on anyone else. In this sense, Arias is not survivor, she is just still alive.
I’m glad I am not in the jury- I never would have been chosen because I cant come to grips with a death penalty.
This all comes down to one issue for this jury, imo.
All the formal DX and tit for tat witnesses are not going to matter if these jurors believe that Travis attacked her out of the shower. We now know that they were told that Arias was not holding a gun or knife in the shower pic and they know then she had to be holding a camera.
I know exactly what Mom 3.0 is saying really, and that this is not sewn up to serve a jury in a dp case. To get there, one has to decide what happened to make any of either case make sense.
BPD does not a killer make, in fact, in investigative analysis of a violent crime of this nature, we see paranoid schizo as the most associated psychosis. I know that was not the case here, but I am just giving an idea of how incongruent this whole thing is at 30,000 ft.
I am publishing a new piece on this case Monday, will definitely give some new thoughts for consideration.
B
Next rebuttal witness – Detective Robert Brown, computer forensic specialist for the City of Mesa. Will he testify that there was no porn on Travis’ computer?
Will there be a surprise rebuttal witness, and if so whom would you like to see? Matt who would never betray JA, Walmart employee with video of no return, Starbucks employee re parking lot with no curb, hiker from the Hoover Dam with gun & knife, Chris Hughes…
No chatter here about the jury questions?
There can be no surprise rebuttal witnesses- no ambushes allowed.
B
The defense is hoping that the jury will be misdirected into all the possible mental health issues rather than the simple fact that all of this altercation is the result of a plan that Jodi made and carried out.
She was roughly 1,000 miles away from Mesa and Travis. This trip did not come about without planning and effort. Jodi worked the plan to hide the trip from others, achieved the goal of arriving undetected at Travis’s residence, had a sex tryst with Travis with the intent to make him take her to Cancun and would not reveal the so called bad information she held. At the end of the day, Travis was not going to take her to Cancun.
Jodi arrived with plan B ready to go. If Travis would not take her to Cancun she would make certain that he didn’t go and would never be with another woman. To that end, Jodi brought with her the stolen gun from her grandfathers residence and a knife that she had previously used to slash the tires of Travis’s car on more than one occasion.
Travis may have walked Jodi out of the house prior to taking a shower. Only Travis and Jodi know if this is true. I believe without positive evidence, that Jodi slipped back into the house and used Travis’s camera to photograph him and then took the gun and shot him in the shower.
Travis was hurt, but because of the small caliber gun, he was not incapacitated and lunged up out of the shower at Jodi. He only made it as far as the wash basin when the blood from the wound of the shot forced him to stop and clear his airway so he could continue. I believe that Jodi then stabbed him with the knife at the sternum and then the deep wound under the heart. Travis realized that she was going to kill him if he didn’t fight so the tackled Jodi and they fell on the floor with her still trying to stab him. Both the shot and the stab to the heart area were sufficient to kill him in a short while without medical attention.
We don’t know if his vision was affected, but he had to be hurting from the shot and the deep stab wound. Somehow Jodi got free of Travis and he got up and tried to chase her into the hallway. She got behind him and did the rest.
Closing arguments from JM had better lay this possible scene out from the known forensics in a time line complete with crime scene photos and other information so that the jurors are given a visual reference of the steps in the crime. Looking only at motive and the possible aberrations from mental illness is IMO playing the defenses game and will not result in a verdict matching the charges.
whodunnit says:
April 19, 2013 at 3:30 pm
(snipped)
The defense is claiming that Arias was abused and suffering from PTSD which affects Arias ability to judge the situation as a ” reasonable person” would.
———————————————————————-
It is likely that I am missing something or just confused, but, I thought the “trauma” that caused the PTSD was the killing. I thought the ptsd was supposed to explain her fog, not to explain her inability to act as a reasonable person would. They want us to believe that because he attacked her before and then he said he was sorry that he was going to kill her this time.
According to her story he did threaten to kill her. After she shot him in the head. “effing kill you bitch”. She believed him this time. So how would a reasonable person act after being shot in the head? His reaction seems reasonable to me. Yes I know this story is a lie too.
None of the defense, stories, etc. make any sense whatsoever.
Mom 3.0
Oh please know I didn’t intend to make you feel misunderstood!! And I do agree with you that the jury may get stuck- I was just saying that based on what you are saying, you are only stuck with the decision of whether or not it was planned in advance… and that is different that thinking she can use the abuse excuse.
Blink:
I AGREE that the jury can be led to believe that because Arias was not holding a knife or a gun in her hands in that photo, this means that Travis initiiaed the aggression.
BUT
The photos itself does not prove that Travis attacked her first, any way.
The truth of the photo is that it is addressing only one moment in a sequence of events ( and the jury will never know about the nonsense that this came form a reflection in an eyeball)
The photo does not prove that Travis consented to having his picture taken.*
There is a series of successive images that were presented with a timeline to the jury. This is not a situation where the jury is led to believe anything.
This jury has been ordered to consider the stipulation at face value. In context, absent alternative rebuttal info, this is a problem for the state.
It confirms the timeline. It confirms to a certainty, a statement Jodi has made. Again, problematic for the State.
It proves that within just over a minute, a man with 100 lbs on her, almost, ends up with 29 stab wounds, a GSW and a throat slit. An event that clearly and unambiguously takes place in 2 distinct areas of the residence, master bedroom and bath, specifically.
It does not prove that she did not pick up a knife or pick up a gun before or after that photo.
It does not prove that the camera was held in her hands- and I think the stipulation is ONLY that she was not holding a knife or a gun. And if it wasn’t stipulated that the camera was in her hands, it does not prove that the camera was not set on automatic and simply hanging around her neck, for example. This is an attempt at ” if it don’t fit, you must aquit” IMO the defense has not proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Travis attacked her, because that supposition is based on believing he had battered her previously , that his physical violence was escalating. ( talk about layers of an onion!)
Well if it was hanging, how was it hanging? There was no strap found, and the strap to Travis’s camera was in plastic in the case.
I think Demarte’s testimony was powerful in her opinion that the evidence did NOT show any pattern of violence. If you don’t buy the escalating physical violence, there is nothing that says Travis body slammed her over a dropped camera.
All the facts show is that Travis got out of the shower, whether he was injured in the shower first or not, and was that he was also injured outside of the shower.
It is still a mystery as to why the camera photographed some photos after being on the floor, and not more. I have not heard testimony if all the photos were retrived or if there were more that could not be retrieved or if there is any way to know.
Yes, there was. Melandez testified there were other images on the camera besides the deleted ones. We have no idea what those are/were. Why is that?
It is just as easy to conclude from this photo that Travis, upon realizing he was being photographed, got out of the shower to GET THE CAMERA away from Arias, as long as you give no creedence to Arias claims otherwise.
I believe this is exactly what happened and Travis had the right to prevent someone of taking naked pics of the man in his shower. That said, I still do not believe Travis did not feel a threat in that image, of some kind..
If there is ANY way to prove the sequence of events, Martinez needs it NOW.
Yes ma’am. Yesterday. Keep this in mind- I can’t get 12 people to agree on coffee flavor- which, btw, I do not drink, lol. 12 people united in a verdict seems like a very big hope here.
*( In the interrogation with the femail detective on July 16th, when they are talking about the photos, Arias says that Travis was very private about taking showers. that ” whoever took the photos must have” implying that Travis didnt know the photos were being taken, but Arias is cut off before she goes down the road of someone else taking the photos with Travis unaware. I saw that on HLN ( sorry) today and am trying to find it if it is accessible so I can post it. Pretty sure it is inadmissable, but in this forum, we get to factor in other stuff)
Yes, very good point. Her interrogation in part is fodder for my update piece publishing Monday
B
Blink I look forward to your new piece
Yes Blink as hard as it is for me to admit this case is NOT sewn up by Either side especially since The State is asking for the death Penalty-
Its easier for us for me for whodunit to connect the dots to reach the verdict of guilty in first degree because we dont have the burden of possibly putting a person to death- we dont have to agonize over every detail
Whodunnit you dont have to convince me- Just becuase I believe she murdered Travis in cold blood and I believe she did not reach for the gun or the knife in self defense but in premeditation- does not mean a reasonable person on that jury weighing the same EVIDENCE presented in this trial can not see it much differently-
IMO
Neither side has disproved any claim to the point that it becomes unreasonable for a juror to include it in their weighing of facts.
and then it becomes a battle over whether or not a fellow juror can convince another to see it their way- and as I said this will be extremely hard because it is reasonable to believe almost any claim because both sides have not proven their cases not enough to send a person to death- IMO
It makes me sad to say it but unfortunately the grusome “overkill” does not HAVE to go to show she murdered him in cold blood there are other reasonable conclusions –was it proven that she killed him with malice a forethought – was it proven she killed him in a self defense auto pilot fog?
If I am honest I dont think either were proven beyond a reasonable doubt
—
It has taken alot of soul searching but I have finally came to the realization that the jury in the CA case was right not to reach a guilty verdict of murder in the first degree( I still do not excuse them for not voting guilty on the child abuse though)
They did their duty in that case there was too many what ifs not “sewn up” It wasnt a DP case, despite meeting the markers of a child under twelve
we in the public were aware of so much more info that was deemed too prejudicial- we in the public were swayed by our love of Caylee and our hate of CA the jury rightly was not-
the Judge allowed in the “evidence” of possible drowning by accident-
the prosecution was from opening statements trying the case from the wrong POV
JB cut them off at the pass and claimed both CA and GA were aware of what happened and they painted CA the victim in this scenario- thereby rendering the prosecutions WHOLE opening Statement – NULL AND VOID- the cell records the avoiding the home the 31 days the zanny lie became nothing more than a young mother possibly avoiding the truth that her daughter was dead and her gfather who was an abuser disposed of her body-
I bring this up because when you ask a jury to put another human being to death
the beyond a reasonable doubt weighs alot heavier than in a nonDP case and sympathy for the accused may tip the scales in favor of the defendant when the case isnt all sewn up
AJMO
Peace
I am not prepared at this juncture to speak openly to the CA case as it relates to the prosecutorial strategy, and what I adamantly believe was also it’s hubris. Once this case went high profile, imo, the death penalty back on the table was designed to remove her current counsel and put the case back to typical Floridian jurisprudence.
We all know how that ended up.
If I may, I would like to share a quote from a recent lecturer of mine, Roy Hazelwood:
” Something happens to average citizens when they get in that jury box. They all become defenders of our Constitution, it is difficult.”
In context, he was discussing the NGRI (not guilty by reason of insanity) v the paranoid schizo paradox in outcome.
Paraphrasing blindly as I am discussing copyrighted materials.
You stab your mom after raping her and cut off her head.
John Hinkley shoots the president in front of TV cameras.
The first suspect is cleary a paranoid schizo, a very severe mental disorder. He is serving life as commuted from death.
The latter, references Jodi Foster and the jury decided he has to be crazy to shoot the president on live TV.
If that does not really say it all, I don’t know what does.
Juries are imperfect, as is justice, more often than we would like to admit.
Jurors charged with such awesome responsibility will attempt to fill in the gaps left for them. Overcharging Arias wrt what the state is prepared to deliver in terms of evidence is a tightrope act.
I for one, will cover my eyes until it is over.
Looks like Suspect 2 has been pinned down after hiding in a boat on Franklin St., Watertown.
Innocent until proven guilty.
Blink- I mentioned that Arias intimated that Travis was not aware of the photos being taken, , in a police interrogation with the female officer on July 16th. This peaks my interest because I am of the ” grain of truth in every lie” belief.
In trying to show that the photos do NOT prove that Travis consented to getting his pictures taken, I have scoured for some kind of backing.
Besides the footage that Martinez showed in court, there is the following transcript , scrool down and find VIDEO TEN, and read what she Arias is saying at 18:51.
She purports that she didnt take the photos, and Travis was not aware that the photos were being taken.
This was before she had cemented her ninja theory fully, which ultimately places HER taking the pictures when the intruders arrive.
Sorry to reference another site, I hope that is okay. If not, please dont post this!
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9
I have followed this trial closely. I have tried to keep an open mind.
Quite honestly I think this is a case of two people, kinky sex, addiction to one another and unfortunately one took the life of the other.
Travis could not leave Jodi alone and Jodi was like a moth drawn to the flame of Travis. It happens.
Travis went to his reward…way too soon and Jodi has been in her own private hell of jail and this trial ever since.
I really need to know what happened in those moments before Travis was shot in the shower. What triggered it?
This reminds me so much of Frankie and Johnny.
Frankie and Johnnie were lovers
Lordy oh how they did love
Swore to be true to each other
True as the stars above
He was her man he wouldn’t do her wrong
Frankie went down to the barroom
Just for to get her some beer
Said to the fat bartender
has my lover Johnny been here
he is my man he wouldn’t do me wrong
I ain’t gonna tell you no stories
I ain’t gonna tell you no lies
I saw your Johnnie half an hour ago
Making love to Nellie Bly
He is your man but he’s doing you wrong
Frankie went back to the hotel
She didn’t go for fun
Frankie went back to get a hold of
of Johnnie’s shooting gun
He was her man but he was doing her wrong
Frankie drew back her kimono
pulled out her lil 44
root to toot toot three times she shot
right through the hardwood door
She shot her man cos he was doin her wrong
Roll me over easy
Roll me over slow
Honey don’t roll me on my left side
Cause the bullet hurts me so
I was your man but I was doin you wrong
Roll out your rubber tyred hearses
Roll our your rubber tyred hacks (?)
Twelve men goin to the graveyard
Eleven men coming back
He was her man but her was doin her wrong
The sheriff arrested Frankie
Threw her in jail the next day
Locked her up in a prison cell
And threw the key away
For shootin her man cos he was doin her wrong
This story ain’t got no moral
this story ain’t got no end
this story only goes to show
that there ain’t no good in men
he was her man but he was doin her wrong.
If some one invaded my privacy followed me around came over uninvited
Peeked in my windows acted like they owned me
I am afraid I would be saying harsh things to them to
If I was going to Cancun and wanted to take Ms Hall I would not want some one causing
A big deal about it
Travis had high hopes about his future and was looking for wife material
I never have thought he sounded like the other things he talked about in skits and talking in things that have been onTV like the same person on the sex tape
Just my thoughts
Tiger or bear?
In essence a juror is asking if the PTSD diagnosis would be affected whether Jodi claimed it was a stranger or Travis who inflicted trauma upon her. I do not believe Demarte answered that question in a way that this lone juror will be satisfied.
This juror (or two) has announced their belief in PTSD on more than one occasion through their questions. Juan has been given a heads up and he has yet to lay the issue fully to rest.
WHY would Jodi’s statement that the attack was done by a stranger make null a PTSD diagnosis? Because, as Demarte states, the other questions rely on a truthful scenario. She should have broken it down further and Juan should have taken her there, otherwise it looks like Demarte is not being objective with regards to the PTSD.
whodunnit,
No worries we are on the same side
I have used my commonsense and concluded the same thing you have JA murdered Travis-
the shower pics dont make sense the body slam does not make sense
because it is impossible for anyone to “lunge” then body slam a person not wet and naked- they would slip and fall themselves same for chasing someone thru a tiled hallway-
the whole closet story makes no sense- (still waiting to hear if the weight/measurements on the shelving units will come in)
the whole gun story football pose – knife appearing story makes no sense either
the whole gas can keeping of receipts and trip to Mesa do not make sense either-
the pedo story does not make sense not just because she didnt write about it but because it was a sleigh bed- there is no way that TA was masturbating to pics that would have wafted over the bottom of the bed over the lounge to fly across the room amd lay aface up at JAs feet near the dresser near the door- no way JA could have seen this-
I agree the DV claims are bogus she didnt reference it because it didnt happen at least not the way she tells it
I agree the fog is bogus
but just because you and I have reached these conclusions doesnt mean others with different experiences and different POV will see the same evidence or lack there of our way-
For instance take Elizabeths post- ( Hi Elizabeth) she feels that there was kinky sex involved and that Travis did Jodi wrong- despite the fact that they were both consenting adults who were NOT in a committed relationship- one was set to go on Holiday with a woman he wished he could marry and the other was set to hook up with her new love interest
Still Elizabeth is asking what triggered the killing “what happened in those moments before Travis was shot in the shower” then she finishes her very thought provoking post with a song which reminds her of this case- a song about two lovers who Swore to be true to each other
“True as the stars above”
yet her man was doing her wrong so she shot him
the song ends with
this story only goes to show
that there ain’t no good in men
Could a juror like Elizabeth be swayed by her fellow jurors to vote for death? or to vote for murder 2 or to acquit? I dont know what says you E?
You take one juror who feels that TA may have deserved it that he was mean kinky sex fiend…or one juror who may in their heart of hearts sympathize with Jodis broken heart and you may have murder 2 or a hung jury
Everyone is still asking what happened in those moments and as Blink said the prosecution agreed Jodi had no weapon in her hands at least until after that photo was taken.. so that leaves it up to the jury to fill in the dots inorder to connect them better-
Will one fill in a DV
will one fill in the fog
Will one fill in premeditation and cold blooded murder
how will all of them agree? IDK
Thanks Blink for sharing those thoughts with us- I think I will be closing my eyes too- I do believe she killed him with malice a forethought
I hope to read your thoughts on the CA case someday-
Again my prayers to travis family
to jodis family and for the jury
How many crime scenes have accidental pics and a treasure trove of forensic evidence and yet still nobody can say what the hell happened to any certainty, and that INCLUDES the prosecution? They opened the trial with conflicting accounts and theory of a murder that occurred 4 years prior within their own staff? Ridiculous.
We all agree and we all keep saying their is no doubt in our minds she is responsible for Travis’s death, but that is not what the jury is being asked to consider.
Lastly, it is my sincere hope that Travis’s family is undergoing counseling and advisement at the thought that this jury could hang or worse. These poor people have been put through Hell on earth and I really can’t stand the thought of what they will endure if this thing ends up that way.
B
Blink writes:
It proves that within just over a minute, a man with 100 lbs on her, almost, ends up with 29 stab wounds, a GSW and a throat slit. An event that clearly and unambiguously takes place in 2 distinct areas of the residence, master bedroom and bath, specifically.
————————————————–
By this are you saying that you believe that the photo of Travis on the floor with Arias leg in it is a photo of Travis dead?
Very near death, but definitely unconscious.
B
Bottom line is that Jodi had no right to take Travis’ life. He didn’t know the full pathos of Jodi, his behavior pushes her off the cliff into the abyss & she murdered him. Both were in the wrong sort of relationship for whatever reason. Fact though, to me is this was a premeditated event on Jodi’s part. The May 26 message from Travis sealed the deal, she was heading to confront him for the last time. She planned Travis’ murder. As for his text on 5/26, he told her she was the worst thing that ever happened to him. I believe Jodi was going to blackmail Travis with the phone service tapes. Those tapes appear to have been contrived by Jodi. She led Travis on in those conversations, made him repeat statements twice to clarify to anyone listening & leave no question it was his voice. I believe his not so nice email asking her to leave him alone after that. I do not think Travis knew JA was coming to visit him. Records show no conversation between these two for 48 hrs prior to JA showing up at his door. Poor Travis was ambushed, IMO. And then, at the end of the day when they ended up having an “afternoon delight”, he walks her out of his home, checks his email, goes to shower pre 7pm conference call that he is hosting, no less, & then there Jodi is again, sneaking back in while Travis is in the shower & can’t hear her. The rest, unfortunately, is history. Jodi looses it, snaps, murders & overkills poor Travis. Definitely premeditated. SHE HAD the. 25 caliber, the knife she had used before to slash tires several times, not only one time. JA knew how to use the knife already. Just my two cents…
Blink writes, in response to my question of is travis dead in that photo with Arias leg in it:
Very near death, but definitely unconscious.
B
_______________________________________________________
I am fixated on the idea that the photo of Travis on the floor with arias leg in it was mid crime, and that he was able to get up from that position. You say that he was very near death or at least unconcious, and I know you must have a really good reason for that. I am trying to figure out how that is proven by the photo. Can you explain? ( apologies if you have already done this weeks ago!)
also-
I can’t find a link that shows the complete sequence of pics from Travis in the shower to last shot with him on the floor. I can only find abbreviated “collections”.
Does anyone have a good link?
I have questions about the pics,- here are a couple:
In the Nuemeister ( sp?) eye ball reflection, he outlined a figure and showed ample space above the figures head, as well as two legs… for a reflection of an almost full body , how far away would Arias have been from Travis when taking that photo?
The shot of his face is a close up, enough to fill almost the entire screen. The reflection supposedly shows her body from head to below the knee.
Does that mean that she was standing much farther away, using the zoom lens?
When Arias reenacted the body slam, she placed one of Travis ‘s feet in the shower. But if she wasnt that close to him, that doesn’t jibe.
Can the shot of the ceiling, that the defense says is when the camera was dropped- can the placement of the camera on the floor be fixed according to what the shot is? I beleive it was the state that said that photo is ” upside down”. Unless the camera was suddenly switched tio automatic, I infer that the button that needs to be depressed to take the shot was on the top of the camera and was triggered when the camera hit the ground. But I don’t see how that would result in a pic of just the ceiling, there would have to be some floor in the shot wouldn’t there?. I want to see that shot again and I can’t find it on line.
Can it be known where exactly was the camera on the floor when it captured Travis down with Arias leg in photo?
1. What aspect of that image leads you to believe he was able to get up from that position? Or is it that him doing so is a part of your theory?
2. He has both hands above his head, and Jodi’s right foot in the foreground, but his right foot is not moving, his knees are not raised, there is no longer extremity movement either in the image, and there is no throat slit yet, so in that sense it is fair to say it is mid crime.
3. Imo, as I have opined in the past, this is where Jodi begins to attempt to drag him, turning him around to face headfirst, and imo, then slit his throat. I cannot say for certain since it is entirely rare, but my guess is that she slit his throat because of his death rattle, or the sounds a hemothorax makes through the chest breech. It is heinous.
You are picking up the incongruity of the events as allegedly captured on camera v the forensic evidence.
B
found a link to the full 11 minute plus sequenced photos of Travis .http://karma4caylee.com
scroll down about halfway to see it.
INTERESTING:
At 5:27. 18, there is a shot of Travis looking at the camera. he is standing. The close up of his haunted face is later.
If he was unaware of Arias at the beginning of the shower, he clearly sees he is being photographed at 5:27.18….
from that point on , the photos of him in the shower are kind of hit or miss- not really framed well, aside form the close up of his face and his torso,some images that look accidental, even before the camera hit the ground
whodunnit says:
April 20, 2013 at 2:56 am
(snipped) “Blink writes:
It proves that within just over a minute, a man with 100 lbs on her, almost, ends up with 29 stab wounds, a GSW and a throat slit. An event that clearly and unambiguously takes place in 2 distinct areas of the residence, master bedroom and bath, specifically.
————————————————–
By this are you saying that you believe that the photo of Travis on the floor with Arias leg in it is a photo of Travis dead?
Very near death, but definitely unconscious.
B”
———————————————————-
It was noted there were numerous bruises on Travis’ legs suggesting he could have been beaten with a blunt object during the attack. Was this part of torture/overkill or simply a theory?
The jurors..they have a mighty task at hand. After months of testimony the light at the end of the tunnel is appearing. Hopefully they are fully invested in this case to bring it to a resolution. The evidence and Jodi’s string of lies will be her undoing..Lwop.
I wonder if the IT expert coming to testify for the prosecution is going to show that Jodi was manipulating Travis’s FB or emails?
Jodi uses the word “ashamed” regarding brutally killing Travis. What an odd choice of words.
“I was very ashamed of what happened,” she testified. “I didn’t want my family to know that I had done that. I just couldn’t bring myself to say that I’d done that.”
http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2013/02/jodi-arias-murder-trial-details-killed-victim-stabbed-travis-alexander/
No. 26 @ Lyla
I hadn’t seen or heard that there were numerous bruises on Travis’ legs. Could Arias’ have used a baseball bat or golf club to knock him down and incapacitate him initially? Or, at some point in the attack? Were either of these items available at his apartment? Or any missing?
@Cindy
You can refer to the Autopsy Report. You can find it online in PDF format: Below is an excerpt I copied from the redacted autopsy report:
“BLUNT FORCE INJURIES
In addition to the injuries described above, the following blunt force injuries are observed:
A 1/4 inch abrasion of the proximal volar right forearm
Two (2) blue-purple contusions of the right lower leg and knee
Two (2) abraded lacerations of the lower lateral left heel and ankle
A 2 inch blue-purple contusion of the medial malleolus of the left ankle.”
I am guessing the contusions could have been caused by striking with a firm object. I have not heard an explanation and do not know if this information is relevant to either the prosecution or defense.
Blunt force injuries do not mean they were inflicted. They can come from a fall, or say, a struggle ocurring on a tile floor, the track of the shower door if one slipped and fell, etc.
B
Mom3.0 I would be a terrible juror. I could not send jodi to the death sentence. No way.
This was an addictive kind of love. Jodi wanted the Travis lifestyle and Travis wanted the sex.
I don’t buy the pre med because Jodi told several people she was going to see Travis. Daryl and her fellow at the bar she borrowed money from. The gas cans I understand and being armed on a trip through the desert I understand. By the way, I do believe she had grandpa’s gun. Sometimes I wonder about that too. Grandma and grandpa seemed to love Jodi always offering her shelter when she needed it so I think they would have given her the gun if she asked so maybe it was stolen?
If we were to believe Jodi, Heaven Forbid, maybe Travis did attack her and maybe she did defend herself.
I don’t know and that’s what worries me about this jury. So many unanswered questions.
By the way I like Alice more than Dr. D so I think the three of them including Dr. S rule each other out. I like a little compassion from a DR. Sorry I just do.
Jodi was Travis dirty little secret and when he was done with her I think he did heap verbal abuse on her and he still wanted the sex while telling her he was taking another on the Cancun Trip. REALLY!
Blink writes, re photograph that has been stipulated as showing Arias NOT holding knife or gun:
It confirms the timeline. It confirms to a certainty, a statement Jodi has made. Again, problematic for the State.
It proves that within just over a minute, a man with 100 lbs on her, almost, ends up with 29 stab wounds, a GSW and a throat slit. An event that clearly and unambiguously takes place in 2 distinct areas of the residence, master bedroom and bath, specifically.
————————————————————————————–
The concept that Travis was received all of that damage within a little over a minute’s time is really challenging my imagination. I just can’t see it, try as I might! Any possible snowflake in h-ll chance that Travis was momentarily on the floor after a gun shot, but managed to get back up? That after being shot in bathroom, he got up from there, went down hallway to get to the stairs, she jumped him at the end of the hallway ( by the bedroom door)and sliced and diced? OR would you entertain a stab first scenario in any way?
The more I look at the shower photos, the more fishy the whole thing seems. Arias said they both decided to take the pics because Travis was in such good shape for the Can Cun trip, and he wanted to document it. But when you really look at the photos, there is really nothing that you could say shows off his physique in any real way. Where are the ” trim line muscle shots”? Where are the ” Calvin Klein shots?” They had done complete nudes only a few hours earlier, why are the shower shots so modest?They just don’t look posed to me. They look like candid photos.
There are pics that are poorly lit not well focused ( and the camera specs says it had autofocus available), and some frames,before the alledged drop of he camera, that are practically a blur- and I am talking about the pics preceding the perfectly lit close up of the haunted face.Why would there be a couple blurred photos before the close up? Why such a change in lighting?
And again, in the haunted close up with eyeball reflection,how could there be a reflection of her body from head to knees ( Nuermeister version) if she was as close to Travis as he APPEARS to be to the lens?
The next shot after the haunted face is a WIDER shot of just Travis’s torso. Did she ” zoom out” for that?
Did she step back? Did she take that torso shot by accident as she was in the process of lowering the camera down to get a weapon she had just threatened Travis with?
If Travis was angry that she was claiming she had something on him ( emails from Travis to Arias, May 26) I wanna connect the dots that the sex pics, video and shower pics were all part of her threat to him, all part of her rage, that the struggle was over the possesion of the camera, that she came to Mesa with the weapons with her backpack with the weapons in it and that regardless she planned to kill him before she left Mesa, period.
I KNOW this is out of the box for where we all have been going, but this is the last inning. ( Stop me before I speculate again lol)
LAST THING- have you ever seen a cat catch a mouse? I am from the midwest, lots of cats dogs cows horses etc in my childhood, including mice in barns….. a domestic cat will ” play ” a mouse to death. They keep cutting off its path of escape, attacking it with bites and scratches in increments, gradually disabling and exhausting its prey, so that when they finally DO pick it up in their mouths, it is inanimate , and the cat wont be bitten by the mouse. I really think that Arias had the ability ( hi IQ) to methodically plan this whole thing out, and play Travis to death. The defense has argued in so many words that ” she’s not the kind of girl who would kill Travis on purpose” but she has managed to confound EVERYONE by seizing on the fact of limited evidence ( limited by her actions after the fact) , embracing the calculated position that if she does not say what happened, no one can know for sure.
Still think the State has a ways to go. Hoping they can get there, emphasis on hope. And I am hoping that they can address the stipulation by describing how that came about.
Blink I hope Travis’ family and friends are being helped and I hope that help will cont. well past the verdict no matter what it is.
I also hope Jodis family is in therapy and that it cont after the verdict
You wrote earlier in response to others PP that you believe what ever happened is far more heinous then what has even been presented-
and you also have underscored that we are still all wondering what happened that day-
and you also highlighted the fact that this case has pics and a treasure trove of forensic evidence
I agree but I do not feel we can trust that evidence completely not the forensic blood evidence nor the “accidental” pics nor any sequence of events from the time Arias arrived thru the supposed 1pm trists to the shower pics
As i have stated before the scene was contaminated cleaned- manipulated
i realize we have pics some with timestamps but I for one do not 100% acknowledge the “fact” that these pics were all taken that day at that time-
Travis looks younger in some pics he looks smaller in some pics then in others His facial hair and sideburns appear to be different lengths as does his head hair some of this can be attributed to how wet it was at the time of the pics but – Travis was shaved in those bed pics and then in the shower pics he wasnt shaved then later was clean shaven…
The length of his hair in the back is different too it is thicker in some pics then in others and this becomes more apparent when one is comparing the autopsy pics to the alive pics-
I am adding several links to photos- VERY GRAPHIC WARNING please no no disrespect is intended to Travis or to his family or to anyoneelse but I was able to locate a pic of Travis gunshot wound ( it is mostly to the front of his temple not off to the side although you can tell it is not full frontal wound) also- WARNING as there are other GRAPHIC pics- – please note in some he seems younger- and please note the difference in hair length facial side burns etc including the pupil pic as well as others-
I know I could just be noting differences due to the photography the distance etc but it all gives me great pause as you said there are other photos not presented and again I cant help but wonder if these pics were a set up and werent all taken at the stamped times specifically during that day …were these photos manipulated somehow will a juror wonder about this all too?
whodunnits link;
.http://karma4caylee.com
and
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/prosecution-rests-jodi-arias-case-article-1.1242428
and EXTREMELY graphic-
http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/arizonavjodiarias/library/Body?#/user/arizonavjodiarias/library/Body?sort=3&page=1&_suid=136649525057509147195203007754
and extremely graphic face/gunshot pic-
http://s1352.photobucket.com/user/forwinteriscoming/media/travis1_zps770c8c16.jpg.html?sort=3&o=22
Continued prayers
AJMO Peace
I discuss this at length in my piece publishing tomorrow, but I will just say now that from an image perspective where we are just comparing visual content and no EXIF data, when dealing with a decedant or autopsy pic not only can we be dealing with macro lens issues, but also the changes occurring to features via decompositional involvement are profound.
To your point Mom3.0, I am on record that I do not believe these images conform to chain of evidence verification standards.
B
“Blunt force injuries do not mean they were inflicted. They can come from a fall, or say, a struggle ocurring on a tile floor, the track of the shower door if one slipped and fell, etc.
B”
———————————————————-
Thanks for the clarification B!
@Blink
(snipped)
“3. Imo, as I have opined in the past, this is where Jodi begins to attempt to drag him, turning him around to face headfirst, and imo, then slit his throat. I cannot say for certain since it is entirely rare, but my guess is that she slit his throat because of his death rattle, or the sounds a hemothorax makes through the chest breech. It is heinous”
—————————————————————
Well, Jodi did say “If I had it in me to kill him, the least I could have done was make it as humane as possible.” I truly think this woman is soulless.
Blink (or whomever can answer the question) –
If I was on this jury and there was a juror who fully believed there was DV (and I do not because of her actions), would I be able to argue my own points on my own history to convince this juror otherwise? Likewise on any other point (juror with experience/knowledge in firearms, BPD, PTSD, etc)? I understand that the verdict needs to be strictly the evidence presented (as it should be) but to what extent do experience and life history play within jury discussions near the end of deliberations?
For example, we have one doctor who attempted to show there was DV although there is no other evidence from any other source other than JA saying so (and we know she has lied at every opportunity until she became informed there was evidence to contradict her stories). If she had been a victim of DV, she would have/not….(and list all the reasons why I disbelieve her claim)…is that allowed?
@Elizabeth says:
April 20, 2013 at 4:35 pm
(snipped) “Jodi was Travis dirty little secret and when he was done with her I think he did heap verbal abuse on her and he still wanted the sex while telling her he was taking another on the Cancun Trip. REALLY!”
—————————————————————–
I agree, there was verbal abuse between the two but I read nothing out of the ordinary with these two consenting adults. Imo it does not justify the horrific slaughter of a former boyfriend. I would decline being on a jury if it were the DP only.
Blink writes:
You are picking up the incongruity of the events as allegedly captured on camera v the forensic evidence.
B
———————————————————————–
Blink THANK YOU. You have just provided me with the logic I need to get off this subject!!
As you can see from my flurry of posts, I have really been spinning my wheels focusing on the photos-
I am trying so hard to find something that will take the onus off of that stipulation, show in some way that the whole photo session was part and parcel of the murder.. and I just can’t get anything concrete.
A rabbit hole. Darn.
I think that the jury getting the info that Arias didnt have a weapon at time of that photo is an incredibly serious challenge for the State.
That witness was so full of tech speak that I wish that Martinez would have taken him on, shown the jury his opinion was anybody’s guess. I wish they would have recreated the photo to show that someone could take a pic with one hand, hold weapon in the other, and that the flash could obscure the truth of the image and in that way invalidate the camera expert. But now will have to wait and see what the prosecution will do.
My guess is that the State will put everything they have got into their pre med theory. Kind of back where the whole thing began. I hate to admit it, but for the first time- I am feeling less than confident about that State succeeding within the parameters they have set out. And yet, I do believe Arias premeditated his murder.
Can I say it ONE more time? The stipulation is a close to a win as the defense can get. If prosecution can’t present a valid reason that it is a meaningless thing in the big picture, or provide forensic evidence that cancels out its important, that stipulation has more weight than a battered woman syndrome, imo.
Hello Elizabeth- I appreciate you taking the time to respond
I also want to thank you for your courageousness in sharing your thoughts
I hope you will continue the conversation with me as I think we can all learn alot from your perspectives.
You wrote:
Mom3.0 I would be a terrible juror. I could not send jodi to the death sentence. No way.
-E- i dont think so you seeem to be a critical thinker who wants to make sure you have all the info and you seem to be open to others thoughts…
Elizabeth-
when you say you couldnt vote for death, are you speaking of not believing in the death penalty as a whole, or or you saying based on the evidence and on lack of evidence you could not be swayed by your fellow jurors to vote for the death penalty in this case in particular?
You wrote:
This was an addictive kind of love. Jodi wanted the Travis lifestyle and Travis wanted the sex.
I don’t buy the pre med because Jodi told several people she was going to see Travis. Daryl and her fellow at the bar she borrowed money from. The gas cans I understand and being armed on a trip through the desert I understand. By the way, I do believe she had grandpa’s gun. Sometimes I wonder about that too. Grandma and grandpa seemed to love Jodi always offering her shelter when she needed it so I think they would have given her the gun if she asked so maybe it was stolen?
E- I respect your opinion- if you could clarify a few points Id appreciate it-
Who did Jodi tell she was going to see Travis?
I understand you cant believe Jodis premeditation began before the trip…but have you totally written off the possibility that Jodi may have took only minutes/moments to decide to kill Travis- or perhaps the time it took for her to pick up the knife and begin stabbing him 27 times?
I understand your thoughts on the gas cans but if in rebuttal JM can prove that JA lied about the returning the gas can and the buying the gas in Utah would that sway you into thinking the G-cans were part of a premeditation plot or do you just disregard the whole g-can theory and cant see any merit in going down that path further?
E-Since you can see a non-murderous reason for Jodi to want a gun on her trip, and she didnt ask her loving G-parents for the gun- and you are contemplating whether she stole it… doesnt her stealing a gun 2 days after the very mean cussing texts help you to at least entertain the thought of premeditation?
You wrote:
If we were to believe Jodi, Heaven Forbid, maybe Travis did attack her and maybe she did defend herself.
I don’t know and that’s what worries me about this jury. So many unanswered questions.
E- what questions do you need answered what questions do you think the jurors need answered inorder to reach a guilty verdict?
You are worried about the jury so am i
Can i assume that you think Jodi is guilty and are afraid she will walk or are you afraid they wont reach a verdict of murder 1 or are you leaning toward murder2?
E- lets say you did believe Jodi at least up to the point that she was frightened and ran and was unable to get away so she got the gun to defend herself- at what point does it become not selfdefense but an act of killing to make sure he suffered and died?
What would your fellow jurors have to say or prove inorder for you to be swayed in their direction?
You wrote
By the way I like Alice more than Dr. D so I think the three of them including Dr. S rule each other out. I like a little compassion from a DR. Sorry I just do.
E- it seems for many that ALV came off as nicer- and I would agree that Dr. D was more matter of fact clinical-
I understand your thoughts on wanting compassion from a Dr. no need to apologize-
But Dr. D was not a “Dr.” in this case, she was an evaluator- same as ALV- and DR.S they were not hired for their good bed side manner they were hired for their expertize and their unbiased evaluations-
I agree for the most part each cancels the other out if one is to take all three experts testimony as fact- and not disregard any of it
You wrote:
Jodi was Travis dirty little secret and when he was done with her I think he did heap verbal abuse on her and he still wanted the sex while telling her he was taking another on the Cancun Trip. REALLY!
I feel your disgust and I dont blame you it does seem that Jodi was not being treated as well as we would hope for ourselves or our nieces or daughters or gdaughters-
but I also would not want my son treated the way JA treated Travis- I wouldnt want his ex peeping thru windows or confronting him about dating or spying on his FB or MS and I wouldnt want his ex to be vindictive and manipulative as to lie to him or about him- or to tape sex convos or blackmail him or treat him like a dildo with a heart beat ..
Thank you so much for sharing your POV with me Elizabeth i hope we can continue the discussion
if not I understand -I would never want you to feel on the spot
AJMO Peace
In terms of the various credentials & competences, who I’d refer to.
In terms of testing, Dr D appears experienced in testing adults, &
she described this as testing for a determination for SSD benefits Federally.
Qualifying is a high standard & you have to be exceptionally impaired cognitively.
Very cognitively & behaviorally impaired due to severe chronic mental illness or traumatic brain injury
events. This is the population she would have seen. And,
Imo her employer hired her to screen people out, not in. Ditto for current State
contract with her business (herself & 2 others), most likely for State Voc Rehab benefits.
She’s most likely testing to ensure the State owes minimal benefits. Imo otherwise the State
wouldn’t contract with her. There are few other outpatient cases where such testing is
required & remunerated. Imo the fpopulation of younger learning impaired whose parents can afford.
And, testing & testifying for the State (she calls it the Court mostly, in addition to prosecution or defense) in adjudications. This is the best paid. In my opinion, she doesn’t seems to have much post-license therapy experience in a setting with supervision & peer accountability, and she does not hold herself out as associated with diagnosing & medicating psychiatrists as colleagues. She would, however, make a terrific Director of any business.
LaV doesn’t purport to test. She purports to treat domestic conflict and do therapy with those whose
victimization patterns cause them discomfort in daily life. Due to her experience, I ‘d refer to her.
Didn’t hear Dr S, but Dr D’s listing of his diagnoses on one instrument seem spot on to me for the industry,
which is usually conservative in diagnostic labels (ie with personality disorder nos) until much more is known over time & treatment.
It seems to me this is either
1) premeditated.
If so she was unusually organized in the planning (gas cans, gun, knife, duct tape, rope,
getting inside)
and unusually disorganized in carrying out the plan, pics & all.
or
2) a passion of the moment attack, pretty disorganized, with a component of fear,
an attack however that she was pumped for, ready to explode from the time she got on premises.
In that case it could be due to
a) Borderline PD (imo with something more, like being a regular stoner like Tsarnaev)
or
b) bipolar with some delusional component
or
c) corxisting—both. Or -isnt there something called intermittant explosive? I forget.
and one could have ptsd from some prior event exacerbating the disorganization
while carrying out the act. Ptsd is no defense. I’m with Blink, LaV & ptsd arising from dv
belonged in mitigation phase.
imo mental illness testimony by State undercuts PreMed.
Agreed, in a big way, so what’s the crime she committed along the way to murder? Without that, in an exclammatory and unambiguous way, what then?
B
Very near death, but definitely unconscious.
B
I am slow in putting things together but Blink said something to the effect of a pez dispenser in regards to the slit throat injury. Was the throat slit in the bathroom after all the other attacks because the body was drug down the hall and that would result in even more injury to the neck. Was the blood in the hallway at the bedroom door from the frontal attack and not the slicing of the throat?
I hope the jury can see past all the distraction and look at the forensic and circumstantial evidence circumstantial in this case to me means “what does your common sense or gut tell you about behaviors and human nature”. When I focus on those two things I cant get past premeditated murder or at least felony murder. It’s too difficult for me to believe that Jodi couldnt get away from Travis if she was threatened…not at any point? She absolutely had to shoot him, stab him 27 times and slit his throat? Im not buying that. Most people that are shot go into a shock of sorts and that would easily be a time to escape. I persoanally dont believe she was in danger and it was all made up, but even if you tossed in that belief, its still not possible to me that you would have to go as far as she did. The only reason to slit someones throat is because you are making a statement and certain the person wont survive.
I’m sorry but we have got to remember SHE went to him, he did not go to her. He may have called her when he didn’t have anything better to do or when he was “horny” but this went both ways and she didn’t have to pick up the phone.
In most DV cases, when the victim has gotten away from the abuser and put over 1000 miles between them, it is usually the abuser who goes to the victim begging them back, swearing it will never happen again, not the other way around. SHE always had a choice and if it’s ok to brutally kill someone that rejects, belittles, uses you for selfish/sexual pleasure and then throws you away when someone else better comes along, then we are all in big trouble. This happens every minute of every day especially with younger immature guys. I am not saying it is okay, in fact it is wrong on so many levels but MURDER WAS NOT THE ANSWER!
Like I’ve said before, Jodi liked the games, she liked the chase, she even liked the abuse. If it hadn’t of been Travis it would of eventually been someone else. SHE ALWAYS HAD A CHOICE. AJMO
just so we are all clear. This is the law concerning selfe defense claim in Arizona. Arias has put forth that she is to be viewed as acting how a reasobale person would act it hat person had been abused.
http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/13/00404.htm&Title=13&DocType=ARS
when reading the above, you will find reference to ” resonable person” Arias is caliming she acted the way a reasonable person would act if that person had been abused.
If you don’t buy that Travis attacked her for dropping the camera, and if you don’t buy abuse excuse, no way to justify self defense.
Thee is no proof that Travis agreed to have his photo taken,And there is no proof that Arias did not provoke him in some way.
Are we settled on the gunshot wound was first, stabbing second or vice versa?
Was Travis standing or sitting when he was shot?
How do you think the prosecution will lay out the evidence in closing?
Hasn’t it been established Travis did not own a gun?
Oh my Mom3 where do I begin?
Let me begin by saying we know Jodi killed Travis. She finally admitted it after two failed attempts at lying. So why we are going into the fourth month of this trial just amazes me. I honestly believe our system is flawed.
Some kind of conclusion should have been reached long ago. I know the defense offered 2nd degree and the State insisted on Life and the Death Penalty. Surely there could be moderation in this kind of crime that the good people of AZ don’t spend already, not including defense fees, $1,500,000 with no end in sight!
So now to the questions.
I could not vote for death in this case because this was between two consenting adults that ‘did each other wrong’. I see blame on each side even though social media has almost delegated Travis to Sainthood at this point!
Yes I understand that premediation can occur in blink of an eye…sorry Blink…but then I think just about every single murder is pre med.
I believe Jodi told Daryl about the trip because it was from him she was borrowing the gas cans that, by the way, she and he had used on trips they made together. He said that…they carried gas cans in their trunk. I pretty much ruled out the gas cans as premed long ago. If I was a young woman traveling 2,000 miles alone I would want extra gas and a gun. You betcha!!!
She borrowed money to go on the trip from the man she used to work with at the bar. He has been interviewed on tv several times telling his story.
The gun story leaves just too many questions. Did she steal it? Was it the same gun? I don’t know but it does seem that Jodi liked knives and guns so her carrying a gun doesn’t seem strange to me.
Speaking of knives it seems like Jodi was pretty used to handling a knive if she was slashing all those tires and stabbing Travis all those times. And that could be a whole nother discussion because Travis called the police but they never responded and he never pursued it and the girlfriend never called in her slashed tires. So the slashed tires is just heresay.
As far as Jodi lying about returning that one gas can to Walmart…I am tired of talking about it…really. I believe the answer to that expert Walmart employee…sigh…will be oh she just remembered she returned it to a different Walmart. There will be no win there.
Honestly I am worn out with the sex and texts between the two of them. Ho hum.
I know the jury is not allowed to reach a verdict until all the evidence is in and they deliberate but I do believe by now the jury has made up it’s mind.
I think their verdict will depend on a lot of different things. If the killing of Travis was unjustified and heinous Jodi will get LWOP…maybe death. If they think ‘Frankie and Johnie were Lovers’ they will give her Second Degree.
I give a lot of weight to the personal experiences of each juror re domestic abuse and verbal abuse. If they have even an inkling of sympathy for Jodi they have to only look into the eyes of his siblings sitting in court each and every day for their brother. To me their presence is worth tons to the State! So I don’t know how that will play out.
Much more, by the way, than the ranting of JM. I know he too is ready for sainthood in the minds of many court watchers and social media but to me he is rude and a bully. Well prepared and a champion for the Prosecutors office but a real turn off to me.
I am leaning toward Murder 2 or a Hung Jury if they really get into it.
Althought the brutality of the murder could do her in!
As far as the peeping and crawling through dog doors and everything Jodi was accused of doing it all came from Travis to his friends. Who speaks of an ex lover they are trying to lose with loving words. He was trying to get his friends to side with him and I am sure he told story after story about things Jodi did to him.
Remember this was his town and his people. They would always side with their friend.
I have an idea this all came to a head that last day and I think it was a terrible argument.
I have a theory that while Travis was in the shower, after the loving, Jodi checked his cell phone for calls and saw Mimi chatting in text about their trip. I think it enraged her. I think that was what set her off. I think that was the first trigger that was pulled. She saw red!
She had just given her best and he had taken it and now he was going off to a wonderful vacation with food and drinks and accommodations that Jodi conveted.
“Hi Travis, Looking forward to our trip to Cancun. Give me a call so we can firm up travel arrangements. Looking forward to all the fun we will have on this trip. Love ya, Mimi’
Can you imagine…I think it was then she threatened to expose him with text messages and phone sex to all of those he valued and those from where he made his living.
Remember Travis had just a high school education but had risen quite high in PPL…which to me was like a Car Salesman. He had a persuasive way with words. He made money, friends and got Jodi with his words.
Divulging their sexual romps to the Mormans and the PPL brothers might have done Travis in. All his hard work…done. Can you imagine the wifes and husbands conversations behind closed doors…did you know, can you imagine, he did what? Nobody would be allowed to RUN with Travis. His good name and the 30 year old virgin…ruined.
Wow I am way off track with my thoughts and I apologize because I have been going back and forth to answer your questions.
A dildo with a heartbeat was Travis words…not Jodi’s.
Also I might add if Jodi is smart like the testing has proven why would she do it this way. Just makes no sense. She would have had to come up with a much better plan if it was premed.
Sometimes it is very hard for me to try and remember just what the jury knows vs what we know.
I always remember this is a jury of Jodi’s peers. Not doctors, lawyers or professionals. Just rank and file men and women with their own heartaches and heartbreaks. Many social media bloggers have tons of court experience and understand much more than me or many of the jurors. To tell you the truth when the judge reads them the charge I don’t think many of them will get it! It’s long and hard to understand.
Fair to me would be LWOP because for heavens sake she killed him! But I am really leaning toward Second Degree or Hung jury if there are a few that won’t compromise their position.
Sorry I jumped around so much. I was trying to answer Mom3′s questions and then I would think of something new and comment on that.