Jodi Arias Trial Rebuttal Winds Down: Fog, Fugue, Freed or Fraud- Are The Sex Pics From Months Before Travis Alexander’s Murder? Do They Show Arias Broke In?
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...” Why does most human violence occur between those who are emotionally involved, or more technically, within an attachment paradigm?
Dr. J. Reid Meloy from Violent Attachments
Phoenix, AZ- Arguably the best psychological witness presented at trial, Dr. Janeen DeMarte, clinical psychologist, took the stand last week as the first witness in the State of Arizona’s rebuttal case in the trial of Jodi Arias for the murder of Travis Alexander.
In stark contrast to her previous behavior in court, Jodi Arias refused to look at Dr. DeMarte on the stand, and feverishly took notes or whispered to her attorney Jennifer Wilmott through the State’s direct examination of their witness.
With one exception. When Dr. DeMarte was asked by Prosecutor Juan Martinez if Jodi Arias was a victim of domestic violence resulting in battered woman syndrome, Ms. Arias looked up for DeMarte’s answer. “No.”
After a battery of psychological tests were completed and scored, and approximately 12 hours of clinical interview with defendant Arias- Dr. DeMarte diagnosed Jodi Arias with Borderline Personality Disorder. Dr. DeMarte had the added luxury of having her home vandalized and her laptop stolen following the start of the trial. That information was not shared in open court.
Significant from a psychological evaluation perspective, Jodi Arias’ expert witnesses Alyce LaViolette and Dr. Samuels felt Arias was suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) as a result of the killing of Travis Alexander on June 4, 2008 at his home in Mesa, Arizona. Only Samuels was licensed to test Arias similarly to DeMarte, and it appears the results were very different. Samuels testified that he never re-tested Arias after he learned her accounts of June 4 were fabrications and that was an error on his part in his finding Arias suffered from PTSD.
Cross examination of Dr. DeMarte induced a migraine headache suffered by Arias (her 3rd since trial) although she is taking Imitrex for the condition. Earlier in the day, Wilmott began her cross by repeatedly stating that DeMarte was practicing therapy without a license prior to her licensing exam, to which DeMarte responded “That is not correct, it is permitted under the supervision of a licensed psychologist, which I was.”
Wilmott went on to question DeMarte’s credentials specifically related to expertise in domestic violence and her current knowledge of the practices of Dr. Lenore Walker- largely considered the pioneer of domestic violence research and testing. Walker’s work is novel within the psychological community in the area of the battered woman syndrome diagnosis.
Wilmott unsuccessfully tried to trip up DeMarte by suggesting that Walker no longer uses her own 6 point scale to include the possibility of battered woman syndrome to which DeMarte replied, “I would say that you are being inaccurate.”
DeMarte completed her testimony with very limited juror questions, although it was clear that a juror or two was not sold that Arias’ only disorder is BPD.
While DeMarte represented the State well in my opinion; Jodi Arias remains the round peg in the jello rhomboid to me. Too many unanswered behavioral observations from a criminal profiling perspective to fit into the BPD mold.
Prior to the start of the State’s rebuttal case, defense counsel Kirk Nurmi recalled a witness for the defense who never made it into the witness list for trial, Mr. Bryan Neumiester.
In previous hearings where Neumiester appeared as an expert for the defense in the authentication of the May 10, 2008 phone sex recording made by Arias, the State agreed to a stipulation that it was indeed Travis Alexander’s voice on the tape, and that it was made on May 10.
In earlier testimony Juan Martinez elicited from Jodi Arias, Martinez accused her of recording the tape without Alexander’s permission or knowledge. Arias was forced to admit that at no time is the fact that the conversation is being recorded heard mentioned by either party during the recording. More on that recording in a bit.
Neumiester was able to magnify the very haunting last image of a live Travis Alexander’s face in the shower, specifically his iris, and gain agreement via stipulation that the reflective image contained therein is that of Jodi Arias. She was not holding a gun or knife and the image was time-stamped correctly.
This was the second time Juan Martinez agreed to a stipulation from the same expert witness regarding the recorded media, both digital and audio in this case- outside the presence of the jury.
Mr. Neumiester is an expert witness for colleagues in Mr. Martinez’s own office as well as the Mesa Police Department. Might suggest offsite meetings going forward.
The final witness listed for the State’s rebuttal case is an investigator for the Mesa County Police who specializes in computer forensics, Detective Robert Brown. Detective Brown describes himself as a Computer Forensics Detective:
As a Digital Forensics expert, I possess attention to detail in my forensic capability, as well as the ability to explain complex technical concepts in a non-technical manner.
In the course of my regular duties, I also perform the following:
-Support ongoing internal investigations and litigation matters
-Utilize a variety of forensic tools (Encase, FTK, Helix, Cellebrite, Wireshark, etc.)
-Perform storage forensics (for example, hard drives, phones, USB storage)
-Perform network captures for traffic analysis
-File-system analysis and file carving (for example, to extract email, documents, and other trace evidence)
-Identifying , collection and analyzing electronic information, relevant to a case, incident or event of interest
-Establish timelines and patterns of activity of individuals and electronic devices and software
-Following forensically sound practices, including preserving chain of custody
-Efficiently and effectively report progress, risks and issues associated with assignments to varying levels of management
Following sound practices including preservation of chain of custody is looking like a welcome addition to this case.
In testimony from Detective Michael Melendez where the images allegedly taken by Travis’s camera were recovered from the deleted or unallocated portions of the memory stick via Encase software we learned that the infamous afternoon of highly graphic sex images of both Travis and Jodi that were dated and time-stamped on June 4th took place that afternoon prior to Travis’s murder.
Thus, making Jodi Arias an invited guest.
As an invited guest spending the day indelicato delicto, it certainly makes it difficult to prove the felony murder charge she is facing- and does not help the pre-meditation or murder in the first degree allegation because the basic motive is that Jodi went there to murder Travis because he was not going to take her to Cancun. While certainly a possibility, I would offer that just about every psychological professional who sat across from Arias missed the fact that she literally saw her old boyfriends more than once along her trek that ended up with her last breakup. Weird, yes.
Otherwise known as a raging sign of dependent personality disorder.
…” You are the worst thing that has ever happened to me…”
-Travis Alexander
According to the text messages back and forth between Jodi and Travis the weeks prior to his murder, it was patently clear that Alexander wanted Arias out of his life for good.
Has what the state since learned after having Jodi on the stand under oath and repeated in cross examination opened the door to further investigation of the electronic media in this case in preparation for rebuttal? Looks that way.
Keeping in mind that the phone sex recording was May 10th. About a week later, Arias testified, she thought the phone was stolen. She alleges it was found by her Aunt in 2010 in her grandfather’s car. This would be the same aunt that she pointed out in court, and who has not been seen in court in weeks although she had attended daily.
Arias writes in her journal entry May 22, 2008 that there are several explicit photos on her stolen phone, and 2 recorded sex tapes. In 2010, Arias though her attorneys, deliver this phone into evidence with no chain of custody information in a then 2 year old case. Miraculously, this occurs just as Arias is moving from the “maybe not the ninja’s” defense. From the defense perspective it has some statements from Alexander on it that they feel support’s their defense. From the State’s perspective it proves that Arias was certainly very open to the sexual practices of the couple and never felt abused, nor was she put off by the comments by Alexander.
A win-win for both sides so why not agree to its stipulation, right?
Is this why Juan Martinez was hammering home the journal entry written about the “fruitful imaginations” the two explored, causing Arias to miss Lonnie’s christening?
The infamous sugar fest that takes place just before Arias allegedly walks in on Alexander in masturbatory behavior where some image of a boy lands at her feet on January 21st? I note that one of the pictures allegedly from the June 4th date seems to show Alexander engaged in some self-satisfaction that ended with a surprise photo taken from the point of view of the chair next to him.
You’ll see where I am going with this momentarily.
Zulu Time Sex Chat
I have listened to the recording more times than one should have to, and I note that within that conversation ( which is clearly edited, you can hear the fast forwards or dead time during the recording) the sexual tryst they discuss sounds very much like what was captured on the images as presented previously as occurring on June 4th. If you have no concern about losing your lunch, it can be found here. Because of the nature of the material I am not quoting directly.
Graphic Warning, Sexually Explicit Material
Points in Conversation that Match Images
- Jodi discusses her fresh Brazilian and her being unsure if Travis would like that. She mentions Travis wakes her up after she fell asleep in the chair by preforming a sex act on her. There is no question that Jodi is freshly waxed in those images.
- Travis discusses the point of view shots of her “anatomy”.
- Jodi mentions that her hair was IN BRAIDS. In the police interview Flores refers to them as pigtails and Jodi responds “Are you sure it’s me, pigtails? They are not pigtails, they are braids and it is through this verbiage I believe we see Jodi restate that the pics are from another time. She is adamant on that until unfortunately Flores gives it up he has those 2 pics taken from the scene accidently.
- Jodi asks Travis to check out her new profile pic, he does, tells her how photogenic she is, and at no time says… O, you changed your hair color to brown. We know she took pics from her own camera May 10 and she was a brunette. Arias testified her hair was brown prior to leaving Mesa.
- Travis mentions the introduction of KY into the relationship. It is laying on the bed in the images, however, he says during the call when he is masturbating he is using Vaseline.
- Jodi mentions next time they have a photo session that she would like to have makeup on. She has no makeup on in these images.
- In a very close-up point of view shot, it appears Ms. Arias is using her vaginal canal as a tootsie pop holder. The tootsie pop incident occurs only once and prior to June 4th as it is discussed during the tootsietape.
I am aware that Det. Melendez says that the timestamps are from the image files, however, he never offers any explanation as to why some have it and many do not. Nor is he asked how if Neumiester was able to pull EXIF data identifying the shower image as taken from Travis’s camera from a similarly deleted image, why he was not able to. Likely why Mr. Neumiester was kept off the stand via the State’s agreement to the stipulation that has the legal community scratching its collective head.
My current thought bubble: Why would the prosecution take the murder weapons out of the hands of the suspect and in one fell swoop support her account of events as opposed to allowing Judge Stephens to rule on the Daubert hearing?
My current thought bubble response: Because it opens the door that has a little bottle labeled drink me on the other side.
Exhibit #215 Is Fat
No, not a person. The blue SD card labeled exhibit #215, confirmed by the State by its two witnesses Heather Connor and Det Melendez to be the card where all deleted images were extracted.
There’s just one problem with that. Well, maybe two. Connor stated it was located in the bottom of the washer along with the camera battery cover, which were separate from the camera itself. In fact, one can see the battery pack in the camera from the image taken into the washer.
Melendez stated he found the card or memory stick inside the camera when he opened its cover door.
Duo v SD blue
How did it get there if he was the only one who handled it, and how does he account for the fact that it is definitely not compatible with Travis’s camera a Sony (insert model).
Travis’s camera used a proprietary Sony duopro memory stick which is thinner and rectangular, and included notches for locking the data contained on it. The blue SD card cannot and does not fit inside the camera.
SO….
How does one account for the fact that there is only one card located in exhibit #215 and it is indeed now a Sony duopro, and it is NOT the same card pictured in the envelope presented by Thomas through prosecutor Juan Martinez.
As much as it pains me to say this- Jodi told them that herself and Det. Flores confirmed it during their interview on July 15, 2008.
Excerpted in pertinent part, my actual case bench notes from 4/2/13:
1:57 starts discussion on card- notes for review, upload and feedback
JA: To me pictures are very compelling but I know they can be modified, altered and I don’t know but I think date and time stamps can be tampered with.
Flores: we did not modify anything. Say like a computer, we take a mirror copy of it, and we don’t even touch it…. That’s exactly what we do with the photos. We don’t work with the originals and we make an exact duplicate copy and we work with the copy..And our guys are so good, that every case that I know of, has never been lost in court
(Note b: That sounds dangerously like no jury will ever convict me, ugh.)
8:34
Arias begins to ask Flores if they have her camera from storage.
Flores responds do you remember taking these pictures?
Arias: we took many pictures, vaguely
9:00
Arias in response to Flores saying they both deleted everything off both or all devices (sic) says prior to Travis getting his camera, all those pictures were on her camera.
Flores: All these same pictures?
Arias: I dunno, we took a bunch the week before I left
Arias: What I am asking is it possible that my memory card is in his camera? They are interchangeable.
(Note b: This may be why she needed the software and cord found in office. Ref my observations that the cord image appears to have red staining, but was not marked for testing. Imo, this is why she states they had sex on the desk. She knew her DNA from the cut would be there.)
Flores: How do you know they are interchangeable?
Arias: That’s why I am asking.
Flores: Just a regular ole standard SD card.
Arias: That’s why I am asking, cause I’ve got one that is like, this big (Note b: draws on his pad lefty)
For my professional camera it is like long and think like a cracker. My other one is more like this big (note b: Draws but in context shown to be larger than the first. She is indicating they are 2 different sizes.)
Flores: they are not interchangeable…His camera was here and your camera was there, why would those be on his camera?
Arias: My camera in storage that is broken but it is still there, I had several memory cards for it that I don’t have any more, and I guess what I am saying.
Flores: so are you saying all these pictures are on that camera?
Arias; no, it’s so farfetched but I guess it’s possible my card fits
Flores: So you’re saying maybe somebody took your memory card?
Arias: No, what I am saying is that if I left my memory cards at his house he could have used it in his camera. (Note b: This is prior to the trip to the big house. Please note how incredibly detrimental it is to call your suspect on the phone and tell them about all your subpoenas and warrants coming her way six weeks earlier- tends to lead to destruction of evidence, witness tampering, I could go on.)
Of particular interest, was Flores’s commentary that the experts on the hard drive and imaging testing (Melendez et al) have never lost a case where they presented evidence?
While that may be true, there was more than a few things he got wrong in that exchange.
- While on the stand initially calling the duopro card a SIM card, Melendez stated that SIM cards are smaller and primarily used in phones. This is an incorrect explanation. The storage format Martinez was referring to as a SIM is actually Micro SD. However, no micro SD cards have been admitted into evidence at trial.
- In Flores’s interview, he expressly stated that the analysts DID NOT work with the original card or cards in the case that they only make a copy, a mirror copy and work with that. Again, incorrect as we heard Melendez testify that he could not read the card removed until he placed the card directly into his “forensic machine”. No copy was ever made and the images recovered consisted then of deleted and non-deleted items from the card Melendez testified he removed from Travis’s camera himself.
Is it possible Jodi is correct, and Travis had an SD card from her camera and that was the camera used to shoot the tawdry tryst? Whereby he subsequently loaded the amateur effort himself onto the duopro card via the USB attachment and software loaded on his computer? If indeed Melendez was able to recover the deleted images from the duopro card, this would account for why the romp images were on his camera card although Travis and Jodi had not seen each other since its purchase.
Travis also had a Sony video camera that would also use a Sony duopro card enabling him to use the one he had in both. Travis’s video camera has not been referenced as evidence or an exhibit in the trial to date.
Potentially solving the dilemma of how the images get on Travis’s camera- if in fact they predate June 4th unfortunately does not address either how two of the state’s own witnesses testify differently about the same pieces of evidence that cannot possibly be the same storage device or the problems in chain of custody of same.
If Jodi was not the invited guest she claims she was as evidenced previously by the pictures thought to be taken on June 4th, what was she doing there exactly?
Did Travis Alexander even know she was in the house before he spots her holding something other than a gun or knife as he looks out of the shower for the last time?
Travis’s roommate Enrique’s statement to Flores seems to support the theory that at the very least, he was not aware Jodi was in the home when he spoke to Travis that morning and Travis shared he had not gotten any sleep. During her interview Jodi knew nothing of the new second roommate (until Flores outright told her about him and that he was at work) but she definitely would have if she came in through the garage because his car was parked in it.
Does this lend credence to the screen outside being removed by Jodi to the office window laying on the ground for entrance purposes?
Court resumes tomorrow after a closed hearing today. With the general public consensus after a nearly 4 month trial that most are no closer to the truth about what actually happened at casa de alexander on June 4, 2008 other than the outcome, this jury has its work cut out for them.
Please join me this evening discussing this case on THE DANA PRETZER SHOW- LIVE at 9PM EST.
Contributing Editor: Jacqueline Beaufort
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I would like to add one other point, which is this, I am very disappointed an expert was not called to do a trajectory of the bullet entrance. From the angle, they would have been able to determine if he was getting up (from shower) or on the floor, dying. Unfortunately we may really never know since his roommates thought he left town and was dead for 5 days, causing decomposition.
I have smelled smelled the body of a person who was dead, it is a smell that is unforgettable. I just can’t imagine those guys being in that house and not noticing something, even if it was a big house. Detective Flores said he when he entered the house, the smell was immediate. Even if one has never smelled a dead person, the odor is not normal and any one observant, would have went to look.
Just my opinion.
blink writes:
Conflict of PTSD in case in chief by rebuttal witness = surrebuttal witness.
B
If the defense is again pursuing a PTSD diagnosis, it is because the cases where battered woman have succeeded have all included PTSD as part and parcel of the defense, Those cases have used corroborated abuse scenarios- either police reports or witnesses to abuse before the homicide. So far the only corroboration of abuse has been Arias’s claims,the emails and ims and texts attributted to Travis, and ALV’s testimony that this is tantamount to the same kind of abuse that justifies homicide in other cases.
All other cases involved co habitation before or during the time of the crime, and the PTSD prong was put forth as the reason the murderer felt she was in imminent danger of her life, as opposed to what a reasonable person would think in the same circumstances. So if indeed Geffner is there for PTSD, he will try to show that Arias had PTSD BEFORE she killed Travis. You can’t just use the abuse excuse without showing how that abuse affected reasoning, and the defense has not fully closed that circle.
The fact that tests were given years after the fact has to affect the answers given- and the basis of the whole thing is dependent on Arias honesty. And I am not aware of any testimony that shows that if a person has PTSD, they become MORE honest.
.
We have ONLY Arias word that Travis initiated the aggression, period. So the defense has to show that even if Travis did NOTHING that day, Arias was reacting to previous incidents of abuse.
I think the prosecution can defeat the defenses logic with the fact that they have proven she lied about the gas cans. And ergo, so was just as capable as lying about any and everything else. That may have been the biggest reason for the emphasis on the gas cans, that pre meditation is proven by the lengths she has gone to to LIE about them. Works for me, but who knows what it is like in that court room.
As far as stab first- Travis had stab wounds on the top of his head. There is a full face photo of Travis looked haunted . and then the seated torso shot. Could he have put his head down to his knees and received stab wounds to the head and still managed to get up…?
I think that the murder took a longer time than that brief period constantly referred to, and I think that Arias was capable of using the knife, the gun and then the knife again. She made a lot of references in her first interrogation interviews about ” how she would do it”- talking first about how she would never harm Travis, wearing gloves, being merciful etc etc. Then in her intruders story, she says she was saying to him, “get up get up”, that she tried to help him but couldn’t-…
I think it is possible that within the process of stabbing and shooting him, no matter which came first, Arias was waivering back and forth about trying to “save” him and that yes he was fighting back, could have body slammed her when she tried to help him get up r whatever.
But how on EARTH did she manage to escape any injury?
In this case we have a zillion trees blocking our way to see the forest as a whole.
The strongest thing the prosecution has presented was Arias dishonesty- unfortunate in that there was forensic evidence that they could have focused on instead.
Arizona has some pretty tough cookies in their population- under some circumstances,a person can get a death sentence for killing an unborn child, for example. Take a look at what goes on in that State when discussing abortion rights: http://www.opposingviews.com/i/politics/abortion/roe-v-wade/anti-abortion-arizona-law-says-pregnancy-starts-two-weeks-conception
We will see what twelve people in Maricopa County make of Jodi Arias, every soon.
And if she gets anything les than murder one, her case will set a precedent that any one who sends electronic communications with nasty language can be considered abusive to the point of justifying homicide. And that is a reference about what you can say, and how you say it…….
I wonder if the prosecution will ask the jury what rights they think Travis had in expressing his anger via electronic communication….
okay I am rambling. Thanks for indulging these last minute thoughts!
lyla, thanks for the hat-tip. I’m not one of the sharpest tools in this house, but I’m grateful to be among such passionate and intelligent communicators.
Crud on #8; Will they allow continued participation?
So early on I cautioned those so sure this jury would get it right to not be too optimistic. I explained this was not a group of Einstein’s or trial watchers but simply a jury of Jodi ‘s peers.
Heck I have a hard time following along. I would bet dollars to donuts they will have a heck of a time with closing arguments and jury instructions. It ‘s all lawyer talk and who understands it?
Even the talking heads argue this trial nightly.
So this jury minus multi colored hair, sick boy and Dui man will forge ahead.
I have an idea life experiences will weigh in heavily!
Good luck and God speed…justice for the twice murdered Travis. Once in his own home and once again in this courtroom.
Hailey Dunns remains have been found and identified in scurry county…just where Shawn said to look!
Sorry OT but it is breaking news!
@ Word Girl says:
April 26, 2013 at 1:20 pm
Are you kidding me? Sharp as a razor, friendy! Your intelligence is proceeded by your compassion and advocacy.
Accept it. It’s the truth xo
@ denn says:
April 26, 2013 at 12:29 pm
Hi denn!
I highly suggest you go back a few pages and read the comments. The bolded ones are Blink’s.
She believes he was not expecting her the day she murdered him. She may have gone in there, with the intent on taking more nude photos of him. Popular opinion @ BOC (thanks to Blink’s research) is that he was not aware she was there, in his home, taking pictures of him in the shower. I also suggest you read, re-read, then re-re read the piece belonging to this thread. A lot of answers to your questions are laid down.
I hope you find this helpful!
I personally don’t really understand why it was necessary to reveal so many of the explicit details of their sexual relationship, including the photos and phone conversations. I get it from a prosecutor’s point of view that you want to refute the battered woman defense, and that she was a willing participant, but still, I think the sexual details are overkill in this case. I feel she should be judged on the basis of the crime she committed, not on her sexual choices, and the amount of judgment on their activities is a little unsettling. Maybe these things were shocking by Mormon standards, but I don’t see anything they were doing as warranting headlines like “is Jodi Arias a sexual deviant?” Please forgive the graphic nature of the following: I don’t know a single young couple that hasn’t experimented with food or candy, tied eachother up, taken photos of eachother, or videotaped themselves, or experimented with anal sex. These are fairly standard sexual practices. But somehow the reveal that – shocking! – a nice Mormon boy was actually having sex, before marriage, and it wasn’t in missionary position with the lights off is I guess scandalous to some people. I just think there are other ways to handle Ms. Arias’ complicity in their relationship without putting pictures of her genitals up close into the public court record.
Oh, FriendLy! You don’t miss a thang. Thanks for the strokes–I need them today and I’ll take whatever you’re handing out!
@ Word Girl…
One can NEVER miss the thang, especially for you….LOL! Infinite love and light because you’re a keeper, sweet friendy o’ mine! xo xo xo
Arias traveled 2834 miles on her trip from Redding California to Mesa Arizona and then back (going through Salt Lake City.) But if you map the actual miles necessary for that trip you get 2444 miles, a difference of almost 400 miles. Any ideas why Arias might have driven the extra miles?
Do you have a map with the stops you are using?
B
blink writes:
Conflict of PTSD in case in chief by rebuttal witness = surrebuttal witness.
B
——————————————————————
How much weight will the jurors give a PTSD diagnosis? I have no doubt Jodi experienced symptoms after she methodically and tortuously butchered Travis. Another round of “same ol same ol” next Wednesday.
Word Girl says:
April 26, 2013 at 12:55 am
“Correction I’ve been meaning to point out here: The blood spatters at the sink area can’t be “aspirated” because that is a consequence of breathing a foreign substance into one’s trachea/lungs. Travis may have, indeed, breathed blood from the gunshot to the orbital and mouth into his lungs and then coughed it back out.
When one coughs out blood, it is called “hemoptysis” and that could have been aspirated or could have been hanging out in the pharynx, larynx, or trachea.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Regarding the term “aspirate”: Both uses of the term are correct. Word Girl has defined aspirate in medical terms. Blood spatter experts use the word “aspirate” to mean blood that has been aspirated into the airway, then expelled by coughing or sneezing (i.e. the analyst observed what appeared to be medium velocity aspirate in the sink at the scene).
Lyndsay writes:
I personally don’t really understand why it was necessary to reveal so many of the explicit details of their sexual relationship, including the photos and phone conversations.
———————–
Nurmi actually went into private practice before he was reassigned to Arias case ( he started with her as a public defender, she was repping herself, got in over heer head, judge re-instated Nurmi and is paying him equivalent to private practice fees)
Nurmi is a lawyer whose area of expertise is sexual crimes. Could be he has viewed this through his own set of glasses…. and is simply stronger in areas discussing sex crime. Prosecution has to respond, it is a cat chasing the tail thing…
The defense is doing everything to make Travis look awful, all the better to beleive he abused Arias. ( their whole defense) They are in essecne saying that Travis was dishonest, hid his sex life, used nasty language, therefore deserves what he got. Trying to cancel out Arias dishonesty, make her look like a victim. Defense spent a lot of time having Arias say she didn’t really like the sex that Travis “forced” on her. She even testified that she had sex to placate him, and to “make him feel normal” ( cause what he REALLY wanted to do was heinous) It is vile, absolutely disgusting.
I hope the jury became numb to all the sex stuff. I hope they became numb to all the psychological stuff.
Wish the prosecution could have avoided it, but they didn’t build their case in a way that could have skipped over all sex stuff.
Do you have a map with the stops you are using?
B
————————————————————–
I don’t know how to post a map. I used a mapping app I have on my phone. The route I used began in Redding California and went to Monterey California. From Monterey I went to Salinas California and from there to Mesa Arizona. Then I went from Mesa Arizona to Las Vegas Nevada and from there to Salt Lake City Utah. Finally I went from Salt Lake City Utah to Redding California. I used the most direct route. The mileage was approximately 2464.
After posting my question I went back and redid the route using the least direct route. The mileage that way was 2797 miles. I guess one explanation could be she likes to take the least direct route!
@Lyndsey. I think you’ll find people at BOC would agree with you.
The sequestration fallout to me is a prime example of people
wanting gov’t services without wanting to fund them or understanding the funding
process. It does seem though that inhouse professional tech Depts embedded in LE
have not evolved & entrenched in those Depts as professions so the job
positions are secure in comparison to medical examination & autopsies.
Medical schools & the AMA have perhaps been better
lobbyists for LE forensic medical publically-funded positions than IT depts, as ME
jobs have mostly been plentiful & carry cultural stature.
There are also institutionally weak County LE cultures where with training funded &
available, LE from the Sheriff & his top Deputy on down don’t take it &/or lie about having done it. I’m thinking of a major metropolitan county in Oregon. They’d rather double street salaries in overtime than fund IT on a case, imo. Thanks for bring your seasoned perspective.
I have been looking at all the pics of Travis that his friends have given
He looks so happy out doing stuff with buddies out in the hills he looks peaceful and enjoying being
Healthy and young
I don’t suppose any of the jury will see these pics
Then the crime scene pics and death pics
This whole thing seems such a loss
I just want to get away from Jodi and think about Travis awhile
I wish the jury could just look at him to for while as he was in his friends pics
ATG, I’m not sure if my note to you about being able to cough without air made it through editing or cyberlandia.
A cough needs air to be called a cough. Other, guttural, sounds can be made in the pharynx/larynx. A cough can be involuntary, of course, even closed-mouth, but all need some residual air, at least, to cough.
TA could have sustained a chest wound also, by the time he got to the sink. A stab into the bronchus could cause the blood spray. Pretty much anywhere in the stomach, esoph, trach, on up would do that–as long as he still was able to cough.
As could the blood spray from his sinus the bullet passed through. Hitting the mirror in front, the right mirror door, and in conjunction with blood drops that pass over the sink edge and into the bowl on the left side only that comes from a blood dripping gravity source?
B
Here’s a map from Redding-Mesa-SLC-Redding
http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Redding,+CA&daddr=Mesa,+AZ+to:Salt+Lake+City,+UT+to:Redding,+CA&hl=en&ll=37.26531,-117.026367&spn=9.962116,17.929687&sll=37.001006,-117.111433&sspn=9.996595,17.929688&geocode=FSxNawIdhXO0-CkvIEo71pHSVDFXDzZ77FgzHw%3BFRDg_QEdUJZV-SnBksXAwqcrhzEbd05pFcIP0Q%3BFcv1bQIdma1U-SntMdGIlD1ShzHKMU1IoLdTWw%3BFSxNawIdhXO0-CkvIEo71pHSVDFXDzZ77FgzHw&mra=ls&t=m&z=6
@ATG, Just a layperson’s answer, but you got me thinking. When someone is choking, as long as they are coughing, it means they are still getting air, so no interference is necessary. Wouldn’t that mean that once the coughing stops, so does the air?
denn says:
April 26, 2013 at 12:59 pm
OH Yes about the smell. Like nothing in this world. It’s a horrible acidy odor that stays in the nose for hours. If only the C. Anthony jurors had been taken the morgue, they would have listened up when the impound lot guy or G. Anthony had testified regarding decomp. If only the Florida jury could have been educated. If only one juror in Florida would have found a brain cell.
I still do not understand why the roomy at Travis Alexander’s home did not notice. Even the dog must have alerted.
All that aside, this jury will vote the right way. I have faith they will come to the right conclusion inspite of the inept Prosecutors.
Rose
You have expressed some of the reasons that LE does not stay in the game for funds. It is not only the county sheriff’s problem, it is often the county management that controls funding.
Many states use a similar county government where four or more county commissioners and a county judge, all elected, control the government and its funding. In Texas, this is the case. Often the county treasurer gains political control of the budget (an illegal act) and is the person who controls who gets what money.
I cannot agree with your position on sequestration being a cause for loss of funds for services at the federal level. That is simply false accounting. The real facts are that sequestration simply reduced the automatic increase in funding by 2% from the planned 5.5% down to 3.5%. No group lost any funds by a real cut. They just would have to get by on the 3.5% increase rather than the 5.5%. Pure politics and media crying wolf.
My oldest daughter worked for the Texas agency that certified LE and was responsible for training at the state and county levels. She found that many counties had shorted the funds for LE and had no money for training. She worked hard to find grant money and private donations to get money to the counties for training and equipment.
The LE leadership as you point out make a big difference as to how the funds are actually used. In cities, that are controlled by councils and mayors, the same problems exist.
Thx Grace and B on the aspirate.
The gravity dependent blood drips on the posterior left sink edge–I’ve change my mind about (I think!)
Originally, I thought Travis’ left fingers had defensive wounds which bled at the sink while his balled hand rested there as he coughed out the blood. Now I can’t be clear if the knife was involved until he reached the sink.
Do we all agree that the throat slitting happened in the hall?
That TA laid in the doorway for a while to leave so much blood there?
HI, Indahlia,
When you make a map at Goog le, for example, just click on the ‘seatbelt-looking’ link in the area where you add destinations and it will give you a long link you can copy and paste here. Other Blinkers are more sophisticated about pasting maps, but this one works for me!
http://goo.gl/maps/0YVuu
This one shows 2,478 miles in 37 hours.
Thanks for bringing this up!
By the way- did she tell the car rental car WHERE she had been when she turned in the car after having rented it to use locally, but turned up a day late with thousands of miles on it? Why didn’t anyone ask him that, why didnt he, even in passing say ” wow where did you go??”
Because it is none of his business, it is unlimited mileage. She was late getting back, he charged her for that, but apparently not the clean up and missing mats which is weird.
B
@word girl. that mileage in 1.5 days reminds me of the astronaut in depends off to off her rival.
imo JA was a “driven” woman from the outset of trip with gas provisions as best evidence.
Blink, your mention of sinus brings up it seemed to me as a non-anatomist that bullet could’ve gone primarily through the sinus en route to the cheek, having been deflected mostly by skull. Has this been discussed previously?
It was my original issue with Dr. Horne’s testimony, yes. It absolutely could have. To be fair, he could be right, but there is no way to determine what area of damage or level of motor or congnitive function it impaired and to what extent without contemplation of context of the actually fatal wounds and the crime scene evidence.
Here’s the thing.
The right defense counsel under AZ law, SHOULD have vior dired him on cross the second he mentioned that he mentioned his opinions as it related to ANYTHING outside of support from the autopsy findings. Yes, he is an MD, and yes, he is an ME, but outside of findings that would extend from something in his autopsy report, he never should have been permitted to render an opinion on brain damage his own damn report says Travis Alexander did not have due to the decomposition.
ie: Dr. Rob Lowe Horne- isn’t it true that you could not distinguish the projectile wounding track at autopsy of the decedant due to the state of decomposition?
Isn’t it true you found no identifying markings on the skeletal structures of the face or dura to indicate what happened after the bullet entered the skull and ultimately lodged in the left maxilla?
In your tenure as Medical Examiner, which one of your cases was able to tell you what functionality they maintained and for what period of time in a similar wound to that received by the decedant?
What training, education and experience do you have as a neurologist examining patients that have sustained a non-lethal headwound of similar caliber and projectile entry wound track as it relates to immediate or subsequent impairments?
Your honor, I object to the presentation of this witness outside of the scope of his area of expertise and move to strike the opinions that are not supported by any facts in evidence.
I further request the jury be instructed to consider only the testimony from Dr. Horne that is substantiated by his autopsy protocol and restricted from considering brain functionality the equivalent of which is tea leaf interpretation.
When I see readers, posters and industry proffs who believe that Arias is truly guilty yet they hear *record stratch* on an “expert” out of bounds, it really gives me pause.
B
nice catch with the memory cards,blink, something is fishy.—to clarify an earlier post .i think she -had- some sort of stress trauma immediately from the killing(she might not remember the blow by blow ,like in a car accident ,but she knows what she was feeling) ,i dont think she still suffers from it , and i think her memory has recovered.she cant tell us what really happened ,because she would incriminate herself. (i dont think she knew she she was going to stab). (i am not sure she knew she would really shoot ,i think it was all a foggy ANIMUS fantasy that came true).i’m just not sure,she’s too cray cray .if she were einstein we wouldnt be here. i think the reasoning of the necessity to immediately claim self defense still comes through in a tramatic moment,or when you wake up at the hoover dam.
Wow. Here is a really great article about Battered Woman Syndrome and PTSD. It addresses the use of these theories in self defense pleas as well… I was very excited to find so much info in one place.
Since Geffner is up next, I would highly reccomend this link- it covers what many posters already know, and then some.
http://www.vawnet.org/applied-research-papers/print-document.php?doc_id=2061
in case previous link does not work
try this one:
http://www.vawnet.org/applied-research-papers/summary.php?doc_id=2061&find_type=web_desc_AR
For whatever reason the direct links I tried to post do not work.
But Here is the way to access this great article about battered women syndrome, which addresses PTSD and the use of these diagnosis in court.
Go to :
VAWnet.org.
once you are on the site,
click on box that says: Applied Research Papers.
This will give you alot of articles.
scroll down to see article entitled ” Update of Battered Woman Syndrome”
I think it is good reading. One factor I am not thrilled about is that it is dated 2009, but if it is considered up to date on a Violence Against Women site, I am assuming its relevance.
Erose
To answer your question about someone choking. If they can still cough, there is some air available. There could be some air intake or some just remaining air in the lungs.
If your question relates to someone choking on food, and you want to help, the best thing to do is to watch them.
The proper movement is to get behind them and apply a quick firm squeeze across the lower ribs to force air at high speed up through the lungs and into the airway to dislodge the object from the airway. If someone has a choking spell from smaller particles, they may dislodge them via coughing and this could continue for a few minutes due to irritation.
The human brain has triggers about breathing. When the body is in a high exertion mode, the demand for air is great. The body can do without air longer than the brain cycle normally demands.
Wind musicians train their brain to let the thinking mind control the air demands. This how they are able to play long passages on an instrument without breathing. The same happens with people who are trained divers.
I can hold a note on a “french” horn for about a minute without breathing. The tubing length on a horn is twelve feet that is all coiled up for handling. The air is forced up through the lungs in a controlled manner by the abdominal muscles. You breath in with the diaphragm muscle that separates the heart/lung cavity from the stomach and other organs. Musicians learn a lot about how the body works in order to play their instruments.
@Blink)
(snipped)”The right defense counsel under AZ law, SHOULD have vior dired him on cross the second he mentioned that he mentioned his opinions as it related to ANYTHING outside of support from the autopsy findings. Yes, he is an MD, and yes, he is an ME, but outside of findings that would extend from something in his autopsy report, he never should have been permitted to render an opinion on brain damage his own damn report says Travis Alexander did not have due to the decomposition.”
—————————————————————
Could the defense counsel have called in an independent ME to refute Horn’s testimony?
Yes, and given where he went they should have anticipated it, and called one. The problem with that is that there is no real advantage to parse out the wound pattern when your defendant claims to be in a fog. It can dilute the fog into selective murk.
B
Word Girl
I was not picking on you with the question about coughing. The blood found on the mirror IMO was there because Travis bled from the damaged sinus cavity and they have a passage into the throat allowing blood flow to that area. Sinus cavities are much larger than most people realize. There is a large amount of blood flow into the tissues that surround them. This evidence also disproves the ME’s position on Travis being unable to stand after the shot.
And now we know exactly why Blink made her statement about Wilmont being asleep when the ME testified. I believe that she may lack knowledge in the medical area and just didn’t think about what she just received as testimony. An opinion, rather than expert knowledge.
who–your second link is working; no problem getting there. Small print: problem lol.
I saw this on the FB page and thought it gave an interesting perspective.
http://www.nlada.org/DMS/Documents/1106668066.47/0124deathjurors24.html
1. GraceintheHills says:
April 25, 2013 at 5:04 pm
Amys Sister says:
April 25, 2013 at 2:27 pm
Seriously. Two experts who didn’t write a report? Especially a medical examiner. Maybe all the information is in his head.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi Amy’s sister: The autopsy report is the written report of the medical examiner.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Blink says, “Grace, with much respect, are you differentiating between an autopsy report and an autopsy protocol? In my training, the autopsy report is a component of the larger file, which includes the medico legal investigative reports as the “autopsy protocol.”
In laymans terms for layperson’s- it is the investigative reports that go to the ME findings that may not be explainable by just the medical autopsy (including tox and or anthro study)such as contributions form collatoral interviews, investigative notes, forensic findings at the scene, etc.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi Blink,
I am talking about the final autopsy report that is introduced into evidence at trial. Medically speaking, the “autopsy protocol” is the standardized procedure that the ME follows when performing the autopsy. This may just be semantics, but I think you are referring to what the ME would call the “death investigation”. For lay people: The ME is charged with certifying the cause and manner of death. To this end, the ME directs a death investigation which includes performing a forensic autopsy and collecting any collateral data that may be relevant in determining the cause and manner of death. This collateral data may include: data from the crime scene, information from the decedent’s family, the decedent’s medical records, etc. This data can be collected by the ME, the ME’s investigator and/or local LE assigned to the case. Once the death investigation is complete, the ME will certify the cause and manner of death and submit the autopsy report to the appropriate authorities. In most trials, the entirety of the death investigation file is not introduced into evidence.
Again, this final autopsy report serves as the written report of the ME. Amy’s sister, I have never known a ME that testified without submitting this report. Can you imagine having to keep all those details in your head?
Hope this helps. May justice for Travis be served soon.
Grace
Yes Grace, thank you, it is semantics. In my world the Autopsy Protocol in many states is the Autopsy Report, but includes the tox and any death investigation reports ordered by the ME office. In other words, if it factors in, it is part of the protocol. However, some states do require that components of same are released with separate foia standards.
B
I have not recovered from the testimony of the ME that Travis was alive when his throat was slit. My God.
Oops, in my above post I neglected to mention that the county attorney has to *request* a copy of the autopsy report for a copy to be forwarded. The report and the contents of the entire death investigation are kept on file at the ME’s office.
Was the jury able to see some of the interrogation videos particularly the “ninja” story/Flores?
the problem with D calling this or that rebuttal witness is you first have to have a theory of defense which is yr overarching goal. Otherwise, if it doesn’t fit defense theory, skip it (like walmart lady & gas can) or P just gets more time. I googled Linda Baden & she made the point they are not trying their theory at times, or the right D theory.
Yep. It’s like an LSAT practice lab. A bad one.
B
There are not 2 cards
SanDisc has long made Sony Memory Stick Pro Duo cards. They are blue. #215 – the card in the envelope which you are assuming is just a SD card – is actually a SanDisc Memory Stick Pro Duo
https://www.google.com/search?q=san+disk+memory+stick+pro+duo
Well MH, thank the stars that you were able to google when it took me weeks to review testimony, interviews, 118 page manuals, sex tapes and MSDS both domestic and international to form your opinion compelling you to pen your first comment to BOC.
Which is incorrect and does not match this case’s own case transcript.
A tip. Count the little shiny bars on the back. Don’t match.
B
Jodi Arias Trial Rebuttal Winds Down: Fog, Fugue, Freed or Fraud-
• Are The Sex Pics From Months Before Travis Alexander’s Murder?
• Do They Show Arias Broke In?
I’ll take a stab at answering the questions you asked this week.
I suppose it’s entirely possible Arias broke into the office through the window where the screen was missing. Any evidence of that?
She could have brought an SD card with photographs of the two of them from a prior tryst and dated to appear as if they were taken that day. What was her motive? Did she intend to create a Sony duo pro card which she could plant in Travis’s camera (thereby humiliating him in front of all his PPL friends in Cancun?) And possibly costing him his relationship with Mimi Hall?
Somehow she ended up upstairs (possibly to get the camera), became involved in a confrontation and ended up killing him. Under this scenario, what would she be guilty of?
An additional point to consider in my scenario: Somehow the photographs taken during the murder would have to have been placed on the SD card.
word girl writes:
who–your second link is working; no problem getting there. Small print: problem lol.
————————-
maybe this link is better, I know the words were easier for ME to read at least! And for what it is worth, so I always like to see what defense may be informed by…
http://www.vawnet.org/Assoc_Files_VAWnet/AR_BWSCritique.pdf
Indahlia,
The pictures taken during the murder would automatically save to the memory card if the camera settings were configured to save to that location.
I write usual manuals for cell phones and cameras.
LOL. NaNa- NOW you tell us. If you have had the opportunity to review any of the links I posted on the manual and the upload/download viewing features as it relates to what is really the heart of this piece, would be glad to read it especially if you might be able to hypothesize based on the “knowns”.
B
Indahlia asks: Somehow she ended up upstairs (possibly to get the camera), became involved in a confrontation and ended up killing him. Under this scenario, what would she be guilty of?
A very good case scenario. If she brought the gun to the scene, it still shows pre-meditation.
I believe she had it in her head to black-mail Travis in getting a better position with PPL also. I wonder too if that’s why she was smoozing up to Gus S. He’ll never admit to anything.
She was capable of all this and started to plan revenge when Travis wanted to be rid of her. The more she thought about how Travis moved on with his life, the angrier she became. She couldn’t let go of the anger and move on herself, and the anger turned to rage. She stole the gun from her grandparents house, and set out on a rage-filled journey of death and destruction to Travis Alexander. All pre-meditated.
Thanks for the link whodunnit
This is a long paper with a lot of information. You may have found something that affected the decision of the defense to try for the PTSD defense for JOdi.
The whole problem with Jodi is that she was 1,000 miles away. She was not being daily abused, nor did she stay in the relationship long enough to belong to an abuser. This IMO was a figment of Jodi’s twisted imagination. She wanted Travis and would go to any length to try and force the relationship.
Everything about JOdi’s trip points to planning in advance what she was going to do. Rental car for transportation. Extra gas cans with capacity for a complete fill-up and more for the rental car. Gas purchased in California so as not to leave a trail in Arizona. Phone turned off so as to leave no pings to cell towers in Arizona.
The possible theft of grandfathers little antique .25 cal automatic along with some other things. A knife that I believe she had previously acquired during the tire slashing episodes. The possibility that she used Travis’s computer to transfer images from her memory card to the Sony Duo-pro card that fit his camera.
Jodi did not tell anyone she was going to Mesa. Those that knew about the trip thought she was going to Salt Lake City and there is evidence that she did actually go there.
She spoke of waking up out of her so called “fog” South of Hover Dam and was covered with blood. That IMO is fabrication. There are check stations at every large dam facility and she knew it. That would produce a record of her whereabouts. She didn’t use that route. Instead she drove North to Flagstaff and then NE to the Upper end of the Grand Canyon and crossed into Utah there. This desolate desert county with a large amount of land devoted to Indian reservations. A perfect place to dispose of the gun, knife, bloody clothing and any other evidence of her murder of Travis. This added some mileage to her route, but kept her whereabouts concealed.
@Eloise says:
April 27, 2013 at 5:46 pm
I saw this on the FB page and thought it gave an interesting perspective.
http://www.nlada.org/DMS/Documents/1106668066.47/0124deathjurors24.html
——————————————————————–
Yes, put yourself in a juror’s position particularly in a DP case. I believe JA jurors were asked if they could deliver a DP verdict. After four months of seeing/listening to testimony I can’t help but believe the strain is enormous. I do believe the DP is warranted considering the cold blooded brutality of the crime. But I would think to myself putting Jodi Arias to death will add yet another victim to the murder of Travis Alexander and I ask myself “can I live with that”…..no.
She claims self defense, yet, she has no “defensive” wounds from a a wrestler and a “line backer”?
She blind sided him – with murder.