Jodi Arias Trial Verdict IS IN: GUILTY Of MURDER In The Slaying Of Travis Alexander
Image courtesy Arias
Phoenix, AZ- In the 4 month long trial of Jodi Ann Arias for the murder of her brief boyfriend Travis Victor Alexander, the jury deliberating since last Friday has arrived at a verdict in her case. Arias was found guilty of the pre-meditated murder of Travis Alexander on June 4th, 2008.
Related Posts
Related Posts:
1,859 Comments
RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI
I have went back and refreshed my memory and I have read up on the latest research on DID it is fascinating stuff especially when applied to this case.
But for now I want to take a short break to address some other very insightful posts and also to prevent overload for anyone that is still interested.
First
I want to thank whodunnit and pamspaz for weighing in with their thoughts
I also want to address Rose’s post from
May 26, 2013 at 12:07 pm inorder to explain why i think it is important to discuss any mental issue or condition a defendant might have
Rose you wrote:
@Blink re “we all agree that in-patient observation and other specific conditions would need to occur before anyone would ever really know wth is up with her. I also suspect there is traits she has that even in a controlled setting most evals would miss.”
You betcha. I don’t think even inpatient with experienced forensic team would be definitive.
What is the purpose of diagnosis anyway? To me it’s usefulness is twofold: as a guide to treatment, especially medications. Secondly in the case of a homicidal (or suicidal) person, to protect other persons (and themselves).
–
I agree that a correct diagnosis of JA or any incarcerated persons condition is paramount to protecting the population whether it be the prison PoP or the public (depending on length of sentence)or family members etc
You went on to write:
I hate to sound callous, but If she’s permanently imprisoned anyway, you’ve achieved the latter. And if she’s permanently imprisoned in virtual solitary anyway, what good is the former (except to her)? So once she’s sentenced, I don’t think it really matters except to advance understanding generally of such potential crimes.
—
In the simplest terms you are correct Rose if she is sentenced to death or life in prison then why bother medicating her or trying to diagnose her other than to learn from her or protect the prison pop
But heres the thing that really concerns me Rose-
If she were my daughter my student my friend my loved one- I would want her to get the best possible defense and treatment available.
If she truly suffers from some sort of diminished capacity- if she has DID or other then that could be infact a mitigating factor or even a reason to vote for murder 2….
Our justice system should be about finding the truth- presenting the facts- yet we have diverted so far from that it is stifling.
The victims family wants the truth too Steven said as much how are stipulations and inaccurate diagnosis helping victims families get to the truth?
You wrote;
For example Searcey said others in CA coukd attest to TA DV-style treatment of Arias. They were not subpoenaed.
Brewer said others could & wanted to testify in mitigation. They were not subpoenaed.
-
yes then you also have friends of TA that had stories of stalking and other to add to the picture
I know our justice system is one of the best and I am thankful for it but I do think the truth gets lost and justice suffers because of it
Like when
The defense tries to convince a defendant and their family to go with the best easily winnable defense- shirking the truth sometimes supplying reasonable doubt often by offering up a possible other perp
and the State does the same- skirting facts or downplaying them in order to get a conviction.. in the case of a DP case- to better ensure a swift decision for execution.
Facts are kept out that IMO should be brought to light either deemed too prejudicial or argued by stipulations etc
Both sides in this case had dueling experts- all hired guns which seem to be moldable to whatever theory the team wants to bolster-
The money talks poor defendants can never get the best defense the best experts
and the truth suffers often
same for when a rich defendant hires the best team or the best experts and gets off when they shouldnt
AJMO
cont part 2
Justice and the truth prevention vs and punishment
In this case we had
ALV and DV
Samuels and the fog
Demarte- BPD
etc
Flores ensured JAs mom that she would get a mental health work up
Her parents were painfully honest and open in those interviews-
We all agree something just isnt right with JA- but noone took the time energy or financial hardship to actually figure out what IS JAs problem
We all agree and she herself confessed to being a killer
She is a killer that is the truth
That is the only non-debatable point
But If we are to be the best advocates we can be…
if we are for the Death penalty or life in prison to better protect ourselves and our loved ones from those we deem a danger
-if we think we have to try to learn from offenders like Bundy or Dahmer or Sigler inorder to prevent further crimes and atrocities
then shouldnt our justice system actually take the time effort and money to actually figure out if a defendant suffers from some sort of mental health disorder- shouldnt the defense and the prosecution work together to find the truth of the matter
Shouldnt we all want to give the jury the complete set of facts especially IRT mental health before they sentence the defendant?
The facts are needed to POSSIBLY rehabilitate the defendant or to learn how to PREVENT another person that suffers from the same afflictions from becoming the next JA or Bundy or for that matter Adam Lanza, or James Holmes
To me it seems like a no- brainer, but a rush to punishment seems to override the need for prevention sometimes
I agree criminals and killers need to be brought to justice they need to be stopped and punished for their crimes
I just think we need to actually seek the truth inorder to prevent and then punish accordingly
Rose thanks for letting me jump off your post-
AJMO
Peace
mom 3.0
writes
To me it seems like a no- brainer, but a rush to punishment seems to override the need for prevention sometimes
–
Oh Mom 3.0- I understand exactly what you mean to say, and I fee eel your comapssion, but the one thing I believe has NOT taken place is a rush to judgement.
It seems more like it is a lack of judgement, or at least stalling every step of the way with legal maneuvering has left out what Arias may truly need in terms of qualified mental health evaluators and help- Look, she lied so much, wasted so much time with subterfuge- she may have just put herself on the life is too short list and strained the system so much she may never get help- let alone life.
Tomorrow, Dr. Drew will have a stalking expert on. Imo, If we take anything away from this case, it should be a better
understanding of stalking and what you can do to keep yourself safe.
quote
Arias has demonstrated her ability to reach public outside of prison to date, I expect that to change greatly once she is sentenced, but to your point, I would put nothing past her as long as moonbats find each other. Oversimplification, yes. Fear-based, yes.
B
unquote
Aaaahhhh….didn’t sheriff Joe say NO MORE MEDIA? Would that not include social media, or was he being specific about interviews? Her twitter is still active
Also, considering everyone’s posts about her state of mind, mental diagosis, etc…… Is it not possible for anyone who’s affected by mental or psychological disorders, to perhaps, swing from one disorder to another? I can’t agree that she is a psychopath since she knew enough to lie to protect herself. Killing Travis the way she did appears ‘classic psychopath’. Right and wrong were not in the equation, so to speak. It was about revenge and retaliation. I guess I’d say she’s a sociopath with psychopathic potential. By that, I mean, if she were to walk, it could be possible she’s transition to full blown psychopath.
I found this simple forumla to be very useful when distinguishing between a socio and pscyhopath:
A psychopath thinks 2+2=5 rather than 2+2=4. A sociopath knows 2+2=4, but hates to admit it.
How bizarre the brain can be within these disorders. Just a thought that sprung up whilst reading. Regardless, she is a danger, even in the prison system, to other inmates. She NEEDS constant monitoring, counseling, meds….whatever it takes. AJMHO xo
Just found this by chance….interesting, since some of us seem to know a sociopath or 2
http://guyspeed.com/how-to-identify-and-deal-with-a-sociopath-last-man-standing/
There’s tons of links like this, but an interesting read.
Love to all xo
Yes FriendLY, and a very good point. Co-morbidity is common in the Axis II diagnosis, and their predominance if you will, can be trauma, situational, or trigger based, but in most cases they are still really there if the patient is Dx’d properly.
B
@ GraceintheHills says:
May 29, 2013 at 10:45 am
God bless you, gentle lady….and all my fellow Blinkster/friendLY/friendies @ BOC. Y’all are precious and appreciate for infinite reasons. Peace be with you and your loved ones. Thanks for all the love. Mwah mwah mwah! xo
susanm-
Hello
I did not want your post to go without comment
I think it takes alot of courage to speak your mind especially when it tends to go against the grain.
RE susanm says:
May 26, 2013 at 1:05 am
You wrote:
not sure i was watching the same trial either. why did judge tell jurors ,this was not a typical trial, it had better of been typical for them ,they werent to be exposed to any outside info, that’s what was atypical.
—
I agree that the judges comments wseem strange
Although I am not sure Judge Stevens was refering to it being atypical as to a DP trial the length and the graphic nature of the pics (naked) and then the horrendous nature of the injuries travis sustained, if you were to look at it that way the comments make more sense
You wrote:
i cant understand the reason for the death penalty in this case, she confessed , and was willing to plea,. beth cesares qouted a former la da who says this would not have been a death penalty case in la,only 12% of the murder cases are,and even those arent always tried for capital punishment.
—
I go back and forth on this issue as I totally agree with you what exactly warranted the DP in this case- as Nurmi argued what exactly is especially cruel?
We still dont know the facts of the crime the forensics the sequencing.
Blink is totally correct here- we and the jury werent presented with a great many facts
The blood evidence was skimmed over the bloody palm print was barely mentioned- all the blood wasnt tested -
can we all be sure that someone else didnt help JA?
As Flores said Do you know how concerned that makes me?
Someone else may be out there and if we are all so concerned with protecting society than this little unknown matters ALOT
Why was the prosecutions case so lacking? why did they present so little? yet ask for so much?
JM kept harping on MM yet never supplied the jury with any follow up
Despite the juries ability to ask questions- either none thought to ask about MM or these questions were held back.
JA said many weird things during trial that none seemed to follow up
Such as when she was in the desert..she said PP she called MM but he didnt answer till he got there…
What?
We have Travis not being found for 5 days and the scene was altered cleaned- yet the camera and supposed June 4th photos were left behind…
I didnt think of it before, but I told a story on the Morgans threads about a case of a shooting at the neighborhood party spot
The young man was shot in a case of mistaken identity but was still alive and dying in the doorway
and instead of immediately calling 911 the owners and other party goers took the time to clean the scene of all incriminating evidence- all the drugs the paraphernalia the money – weopons etc choosing to protect themselves by walking over the dying teen over and over before feeling “safe” enough to call for aid.
IIRC in the police report there was some mention of the banister appearing “wet” as if just cleaned I think a roommate mentioned this
Huh?
who cleaned the Bannister if it were JA then that would mean the roommate had to have come home shortly after the cleanup right?
yet no follow-up on this
then we have the picks of the bathroom downstairs did you see the sink? it seemed to be full of bloody water-
Are we to believe that the roommates never went into that bathroom and that sink never raised a red flag or two?
and what of Travis phone and ring supposedly left on the kitchen sink?
His friends Mimi and others were said to have called him, we know JA did, wouldnt the sound alert the roommates wouldnt someone notice? Didnt Travis phone and ring being left behind give these roommates pause?
We know from research that many of Travis injuries seem to mock somesort of religious atonement-
Why was this aspect never brought up by either side- why wasnt this aspect explored?
Could some well meaning person in the church or friend of travis have altered the crime scene inorder to get rid of some evidence something embarrassing to Travis or the church – i
can we rule out that possibility?
If the defense was doing its job why didnt they at least explore the possibility to entertain reasonable doubt?
again why wasnt this very obvious wounding /atonement correlation explored?
Can we trust any of the evidence in this case?
As Blink brought up there is a significant issue with the blood evidence or lack thereof with the testing of fibers or not the finding securing of evidence the measurement taking the photo taking
What about the sequencing of the crime via the pics and the testimony of Flores and the testimony of the ME? That is a problem
and there are problems with chain of evidence IRT photos and the scene as a whole
and these pics we can not say when they were taken or by whom- and those controversial pics supposedly showing JAs foot- and TA bloody on the floor I submit that photo does not show what the prosecution claims
as Arias said “That is not my foot”
Why so many stipulations in this case IRT the photos?
Flores admitted to LE manipulating the color and turning them etc-
Take a look, a close look at those 2 photos that really isnt her foot and I am not sure who is bleeding if it is Travis or not and what exactly does that hallway pic show?
As jeni says:
May 27, 2013 at 3:42 pm something about this case just doesnt wash-
Why did the prosecution agree to that outlandish stipulation regarding the iris?
To me JM seemed hellbent on making sure that photo expert never made it on the stand- why?
If there is a photo expert out there please look at those two pics- honestly there must have been another stipulation before the actual trial cause they just dont show what the prosecution claims
If this case was a matter of deciding not who but how cruel.. why all the smoke and mirrors- the evidence should have told the story loud and clear
Yet in truth I can not follow the evidencewithout filling in the holes with mere speculation
Is she innocent? no never- but too many questions and concerns have been left unanswered and despite the horrendous nature of the crime, if I were a juror left With these glaring holes i would be unable to sentence JA to death
Cont Part 2 the rest of your great post susanm
AJMO
Peace
Not sure if anyone else has posted this yet, my apologies if it has been:
Jodi Arias denied case review by Arizona Supreme Court
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/29/jodi-arias-denied-case-re_n_3355882.html
mom 3.0-
meant to say “rush to punishmen” ( in reference to your term) t in my post at 12.24 a.m., instead of rush to judgement…
I really hope others are posting cause if not my hogging the board is glaringly obvious…I think its worse now cause of my recent absence from BOC.. my apologies
Hope you all dont mind as wordgirl says just scroll and roll as i am sure many of you are screaming shut up shut up shut up
Sorry guys- but if i dont get this all out here I drive myself crazy
Better you then me J/k
Anyway
Re susanm-
You wrote:
i have taken myself to task ,as to if i have gender bias , but i dont think i do , society has gender bias, for a good reason.i see appeal issues all over this case.
—Susanm, I too see issues for appeal all over this case
You wrote
i can understand the death penalty in the realm of – she killed a peace officer’s brother-. i heard it said that martinez himself knew getting death would be difficult.
–
I hadnt heard that- as i never made the tie in to travis having a LE officer as a sibling as a reason to pursue the harshest punishment-
You wrote:
i thought nurmi took him down two pegs in his closing statement.
I thought the penalty phase was the defenses best showing- JA’s also
You wrote:
martinez closing was so confusing to the point of hilarity for me,he jumped back and forth on the time line(of the whole relationship) ,i couldnt follow him ,i now realize that was on purpose ,he didnt want you to think there was a real relationship between them.
Interesting thoughts susanm- i agree I do not think JM was at his best here- and i have to wonder why as to me this was the whole case for him argueing for death
You wrote:
the backspace button-what was that? she killed over a stuck back space button,(i ve emailed google about their _kill the page button- , are they trying to bring on a mad max death culture , get frustrated with a frozen web page and kill it,my mom didnt allow the word kill in her house) was it mutiple choice on the motive.
Yes his oversimplification did not ring true for me either..Given the choice most seem to choose to believe a simple lie over a complex truth any day- it sort of leaves them of the hook ya know?
I think the truth of this case is far too complex and instead both the defense and the prosecution thought it best to go with KISS regardless of far the simpleness strayed from the actual truth.
You wrote;
and de marte ,she said jodi was found -hiding- behind the xmas tree,i heard the mean girl ,tell the story , she told jodi to leave, that she wasnt invited, later jodi was sleeping under the xmas tree,how did it go from sleeping to hiding , i’d hide from those chicks ,i dont think jodi did.
- susanm you bring up a good point. How true are these stories, did they think it notewrthy enough to write in their journals? or Did they just come out of the woodwork to rewrite history?
I think there were alot of jealous issues surrounding all players and its not hard to believe that some of Travis women friends were jeolous of JAs looks
and we all know women can be extremely mean and caddy.
Honestly almost everyone surrounding TA treated JA like crap and all this talk of I just knew she was evil strange blah blah…really?
You wrote:
i heard his friend say ,”the minute ,i saw travis talking to that girl ,i asked what are you doing ,we arent looking to attrack bimbo’s”,hello that’s every girl in la. jodi was ostrasized by alot of his friends.
_ yes and ALL of them act holier than though whats up with that? Bimbo? really She borrowed the Hughes dress she talked to them openly about some of the issues- please you cant tell me the Hughes were not aware of the physical relationship—JA did not dress like a slut and contrary to popular belief 5 lovers over the span of 18 years does not make her a whore either. Say what about California girls NO thats harsh susanm…LOL
You wrote:
and the hughes ,please. what were they doing up at 4:00 am all the time ,telling jodi tavis mistreats women,then being scared of HER,when she’s at the door at 4:00 am, listening to them talking about her, imo ,hughes’s fear was her duplicity being revealed, what were they doing up at 4.00 am talking about jodi behind closed doors, creepy.i’d listen at the door also.
Agreed wholeheartedly susanm- these two were supposed to be JAs friends too and suddenly they thought she was evil and strange- and asked her to leave- If it were me i would be stunned too….
And why didnt JM call the hughes to refute JAs “lies” about the letters etc? something doesnt wash
You wrote:
jodi should have run fast from these people.
AGREED- another aspect that was never explored regarding the church was the whole “fishing” aspect that seemed to be going on with Travis- it seems he sortof was using girls and Hooking them inorder to get them into the church same for the PPL angle again why wasnt this aspect better explored?
You wrote:
is this when her crazy eyes started, you can create a stalker if you dont break up with someone properly,and i think you can bring out the evil in a person ,if they have a proclavity for it and you play them hard.
–
Agreed she may have Snapped but i wouldnt go so far as to say evilness- how about darkness?
You wrote:
travis played with fire.i dont think he deserved it. travis was dumped by three women from wealthy families ,he wanted to marry them.
I dont think he deserved anyof it either- I think if Travis could have stood up to his friends better and stopped using Not just sex but for pics and editing etc.. and if he stopped hiding Jodi then they might have been able to have a healthy long distance friend relationship- or least maybe coukld have broke it off in a healthy way…
JA was certainly capable of remaining friends with xs and travis remained friends with his too…
I dont understand when people call JA a slut when travis had a past too and he was a partner in these escapades too- and also twhen people say JA is a loser cause she couldnt hold down a job or manage her money or get an education etc…well Travis was seemingly in the same boat- What was travis job before PPL and what of his education and sadly he too had financial problems..
Neither JA or TA were anything but two human beings trying to make the best of things we cant tear down JA with the same things that TA struggled with-
You wrote:
are the women out there in the public square fist pumping for death, the mothers of the girls beating each other up for justin bieber, i dont want a death culture.
–susanm I am flabbergasted by the outrage over the lack of a death verdict-
Just because this case qualified and the jury said they could vote for death does not mean they HAD to come back with a sentence of death once they opted for Murder 1
-
as Judge Steven instructed it is a personal decision as was the factoring in any mitigating factors- factors that the jury were instructed did not need to be just those that were mentioned-
4 jurors in good conscience could not vote for death and 8 jurors in good conscience could not opt for LWOP who are we to second guess this?
and as for the foreman saying he and the jury didnt understand that a hung jury would mean “mistrial” in the penalty phase this IS as it should have been as the judge instructed them NOT to factor in the outcome of their vote whether for life or death.
You wrote:
martinez won me over on the 3-4 sec premedition. this has helped me define my feelings on the death penalty,some cases ,yes, this one ,no!good job from the jury ,imo.
Agreed-
Thanks for posting your thoughts susanm as you can tell they gave me much to think and write about
AJMO Peace
Rose wrote:
May 29, 2013 at 8:09 pm
well, this was one way for Arias’ attorneys to tick off J Stephens the Sentencer big time
http://media2.abc15.com/html/pdf/Petition.pdf
Isn’t that weird? Nurmi and Wilmott are complaining about “hearsay” testimony. WTH did they put out there in trial? There was ABSOLUTELY no evidentiary proof that Travis was a pedophile, but they put that out there. There was ABSOLUTELY no proof that Travis ever physically abused Jodi, but they put that out there. They make me sick!! I hate them almost as much as Jodi.
Mom 3.0 thanks for all your wonderful posts. This whole case has me on overload lol.
Trying hard to express my thoughts clearly re: truth without being misunderstood. Our justice system is not designed to seek the truth. Defendants have more rights than victims (innocent until proven guilty as it should be). I do not think there is a way to ensure obtaining the truth. Most if not all criminals will tell a fib to get away with whatever they are charged with.
Totally agree with you that some things should be evidence if we truely are seeking the truth.
So here is a question, if JA had an extensive work up/analysis for a more complete diagnosis would we have the truth in this case? IMHO I do not think so. We will also never have the truth with respect to c word.
So as I write this, I guess I need to ask when you are talking about the truth, are you talking about the truth of the crime or the truth about the persons mental health?
How can the knowing truth bring us to prevention? What would we do with a person that has similar traits to a JA or other criminal, that has not yet commited a crime? Medication/therapy??? is there a way to ensure those things would prevent people from committing such crimes?
Sorry for this post but my head spins with thoughts and questions, and I just cannot type that fast. Must be from the overload lol
Mom @ 5/29 9:18pm
Always enjoy your perspectives but on this, I respectfully disagree. I adamantly oppose insanity defenses for the simple fact that no matter the state of mind, the crime was perpetrated and lives are changed.
Arias killed Travis, admittedly, in a most heinous manner. That is an undisputed fact. She exhibits no remorse and no concern.
The Arizona taxpayers are responsible for the enormous debt of this trial, and the inclination is to further add counseling, consultations and expert assessment fees. To what end? The taxpayers should pay to (attempt to) rehabilitate someone that has caused irreparable damage in such pain and dispair to so many?
You suggest that we “learn how to prevent another person that suffers from the same afflictions from becoming the next JA…” Optimal in theory, however, how would you propose to isolate those persons that suffer from such afflictions? Most individuals suffering from afflictions go undiagnosed.
Life is busy. Familial structure, role models and parenting modes have changed. Many parents, relatives and friends of offenders notice & report signs and symptoms only in hindsight. In many cases, not even cries out to social media sites have been taken seriously enough to halt danger before it occurs. Life is paced quickly, people demand instant results and gratification and we are hearing the term “entitled” much too often now.
So, how would these people suffering from afflictions be isolated and helped? Given a diagnosis, how would you monitor, and would we then propose to police their medication program and counseling? Do we have the right to remove someone from an abusive environment and where then is the line? These are free will issues. That is an optimistic but extremely lofty, most complex, situationally specific and costly goal.
Consider, conversely, DNA testing and gene specificity. Are we able to isolate a common gene in Arias and other extreme offenders? Good knowledge. But, suppose a DNA characteristic was proven key. Do we then DNA test all children and begin therapeutic measures in infancy? Is that constitutionally sound?
What exactly is wrong with Jodi Ann Arias? We agree she is a complex blend of psychoses. Regardless, a young man’s life was abruptly and catastrophically taken, his family’s lives are forever changed, and this country grieves with them.
She killed him. It was cruel. How should she pay? Period.
For some reason I had to re-enter my info. Have had to do that several times. That is all this post is for lol.
It’s on your end, lol.
B
My thoughts regarding some jurors findings that TA verbally or mentally abused JA:
1) JA testified to this. The jury did not find her believable, but still there was some “evidence”
2) I know of no descriptions of good aspects of the relationship. I suspect that there were times when TA was tender, affectionate, and thoughtful towards JA, but don’t know if any specifics.
3) The prosecution witnesses testified with the intent of showing JA in a bad light, and the cross-examination was directed toward signs of abuse.
4) We have tweets and on-line posts sent after the relationship soured, when TA was obviously mad at JA.
5) It never served either the prosecution or defense to describe any aspect of a “loving” relationship between these two people.
6) The jury heard testimony from her previous boyfriend that their relationship just kind of wore down, it didn’t blow up.
7) There was no evidence presented demonstrating any violence by JA against her previous borfiends.
The story given the jury was that JA was in it for the money/prestige/security and TA was in it for the sex alone. I think that is too simplistic. JA’s past, and I’ll admit she is the primary source, was marked by superficial spirituality (wiccan, vampires, etc). Was this a distorted spiritual search, or simply looking for magick to gain power over others? Only JA knows.
I suspect that TA’s interests in JA, at least initially, went beyond the many ways her lady parts could please his man parts. She likely came across as exciting, adventurous, liberating, and free; especially compared with the good mormon women he dated. Over time, I believe the veneer was worn through and he found her hollow emotionally, but still found the sex exciting. It is easy to say that he should have ended the relationship immediately at that point, but I suspect many single men his age, given the choice of an emotionally hollow willing sex partner or a mormon virgin, would have done the same.
What caused JA to flip out at this particular time? I suspect it was that JA saw this as her last best chance for a happy life, and when it fell through she went over the edge. It is easy for me to see that the jury, presented with the evidence they received, could see TA as the cause of her break in some fashion.
@jden. issues of mental illness & mental capacity play different legal roles, and must rise to different standards, if it is litigated at the pleading stage, as a defense, or as a mitigating factor. see topic headings for examples.
http://forensicpanel.com/expert_services/psychiatry.html
jden writes:
She killed him. It was cruel. How should she pay? Period
—–
agreed, but at the crux of ” how should she pay for it” are the mitigating factors, and that is where the relentless spin is happening.
Defense has put forth motions that cruelty is questionable , trying to hinge that on the conflict between Flores first testimony about sequence and ultimate statements ( the whole gunshot versus stab fist), trying to say that cruelty cannot be proved if Travis was shot first because he would not feel the rest. And that the crime is being viewed based on perjured and flawed testimony of Horn and Flores.
Two judges have dismissed these motions, the first judge on the case responding that the evidence of the crime itself qualified for the charge of aggravation, doesn’t matter what happened first. And Stephens evidently piggy backed on that first ruling. So yea, messy.
It really does appear that the penalty phase in Arizona – one of only three states to use the system that empowers the individual jurors to this degree in the penalty phase- = has presented the jurors with a burden they cannot carry- SO FAR. And the key to the whole thing is that Arias will not budge on her memory loss of the details that would settle this once and for all.
Having said that, it is Arias testimony ( gun shot first) she stated that after she shot Travis, he was still alive, even said ” kill you bitch”…. which to ME, proves that whether she remembers it or not, in her own scenario she does remember that the shot did not kill him.
So according to HER he was alive for the stabbings> there is the ultimate answer for cruelty.
It is confusing because it looks like the defense is arguing something on principal, ( med examiner conflict with flores, change of sequence of events just before trial started, if Travis was shot first, he would not suffer as much)while their client has already testified in so many words that their was overkill, fog or not.
Long and wordy but possible explanation of the fight. Author concludes Arias acted in self defense.
http://www.herrspeightsventures.com/site/mobile?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.herrspeightsventures.com%2FInnocence_Essay_Report.php#3156
That link did not work for me Inda
B
whodunnit PamSpaz Jden – thanks for sharing your thoughts with me- I want to respond to each of you it may take awhile as My graduate is going on a trip and I need to sttend to some things
Great thoughts everyone
BBL
“She killed him. It was cruel. How should she pay? Period.”
——————————————————————–
LWOP. She’s one of society’s worst nightmares.
What we need to know abou this case is why was the almost five year delay in getting it to trial? Was this something that Jodi did or did not do?
If the defense was going to trash Travis and his group of Mormans along with the PPl organization, why was there never any evidence to refute those claims?
Some great discussions by all. I am a little road weary. Read the thread this morning at Tulsa, Oklahoma and this evening at Omaha, Nebraska. Drove righ up tornado alley and while it was rough last night, just rain and no tornados.
You take care of you and Mrs. ATG- that’s an order.
B
Bill Montgomery speaks about a possible deal:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/arizona-supreme-court-denies-review-arias-case-19282720
Thanks for posting that lyla.
Writing on the wall, imo. What a stark difference to JM as an observation
B
quote
Yes FriendLY, and a very good point. Co-morbidity is common in the Axis II diagnosis, and their predominance if you will, can be trauma, situational, or trigger based, but in most cases they are still really there if the patient is Dx’d properly.
B
unquote
Thank you for this! I’ve been reading up and trying to grasp the concept of AXIS I and AXIS II along with comorbid. That’s crazy schtuff (Johnny Carson).
This has been talked about on Dr. Drew but I’m super impressed that you laid down the comorbid element. I have not ONCE heard him refer to that term. Perhaps his intent is ‘layman’ terms…keeping it audience friendly, so to speak.
I thought I can’t be the only one trying to establish the difference between the axis disorders, so here’s a useful link. This is crucial info, related to JA. I’m finding it to be an huge eye opener.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1525106/
Hugsies~~~~~
@ Mom3.0
Your posts never cease to amaze me. Your knowledge is to be commended, but I know that commenting on these intense, emotional threads can be daunting. After a good cleansing post, I’m exhausted on many levels. I need you to know how appreciative I am of your tenacity and ability to dig deep into yourself and the subject matter. In all seriousness, it’s inspiring to no end. Just WOW and thank you, for your service. Love you to pieces xo
Peace and joy with you, dear friendies. xo
Ragdoll- possible Dr. Drew used the term concomitant? At any rate, I do like Dr. Drew very much, however, I think he falls into the psych category as everything is known, and everything is treatable and from a criminalist perspective I find myself disagreeing with him often when he is covering such cases. And then of course the years worst hair panel up on screen like Hollywood Squares.
I know, petty, but I am apparently not able to let it go, lol
B
…and if I may, I need to share this LOL. O/T but we all need a good chuckle now and then.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md8ngeKmQl1rxcl20o1_500.jpg
I’m afraid to ask where Skittles really come from
The reason I tried to post the link to the knife fight article is because it’s the first thing I’ve seen online where someone addressed the way in which the fight could have occurred. The person who wrote the article is trained in hand-to-hand combat as well as his father, or so he says. Although the author claims the fight occurred in self-defense, the way he presents the evidence could necessarily describes an attack. It’s a piece of the puzzle that was never explained and I enjoyed reading it.
Obviously the jury was able to come to the conclusion that Arias is guilty of murder one without consideration of the fight or how it occurred. It’s probably just as well since we will never really know what happened unless Arias decides to enlighten everyone. Is she receives a life I know she’ll be locked in her cell most of the time but I picture her roaming through a massive castle for all time, alone and never able to find her way out. If she is truly guilty of what believe she is it seems like a just punishment.
And then of course the years worst hair panel up on screen like Hollywood Squares.
B
unquote
LOLOLOLOLOL. I’d so make it on that panel based on ‘bad hair’.
I don’t recall the use of ‘concomitant’ BUT that doesn’t mean Dr. Drew hasn’t referenced it. As for ‘HLN hair’…and I bet hair extensions are mandatory and in their contract. Robin Meade….so obvious, God bless their hearts.
@ A Texas Grandfather says:
May 30, 2013 at 8:06 pm
My prayers for tornado vulnerable counties and states. Please take care of you and Mrs. ATG <—coined by Blink.
Regardless of what Rick Gervais has 'tweeted', I DO pray for my brothres and sisters who have been victims of mother nature. I'm grateful to see so many coming together to assist in their healing and recovery. 100% of Dr. Phil's donations from his charity for OK victims, go directly to the victims.
Bill Montgomery seems a highly professional prosecutor. In office since 2010 with a second election under his belt, he self- presents as a highly conservative Republican as concerned about taxes & govt budgets as crime. He has hus hands full fighting legalized medical marijuana and litigation pickles the provocative Sheriff gifts him such as immigrant profiling. He has every incentive to plead, the question is whether Arias bites. Imo she doesn’t realize the real outcome of death, and believes in the possibility of judicial sentencing to life with possibility of parole, itself an insane belief. If she were remorseful, she would not put Alexanders through more.
There was a hot mess politically 2010, iirc in the Maricopa County prosecutors office with a “Thomas” that resulted in Arias earlier counsel seeking to preclude the county from trying her case or several others. It was unsuccessful, but lumped to the pile of appellate quick-grabs in the backyard no doubt.
B
I was reading about Bill Montgomery also I had hope
Also read about Perryville
It does not sound like a walk in the park jody will be locked up alone around 3 years if I understand it right in level 1
So all the good deeds she has planned wont happen any time soon
What ever is wrong with Jodi She will have time to think o lot on it
And that seems to be a good idea from this lay person
Well I just saw Bill Montgomery on breaking news
He seems to think they can get another jury and go ahead
HLN news
Inda says:
May 30, 2013 at 5:13 pm
—-
Inda- I read the link written by the ” knife expert” in which he lays out his analysis of the crime from the perspective that Travis was the aggressor. There was a link posted on this site a while back to a youtiube video which analyzed the crime scene based on the persepctive that Arias was the aggressor, and included how the camera could have gotten into the position it was, in order to snap the photos of the crime. Both theories rely on the same blood pattern analysis, yet both have compelling- though comepletely different- explanations of what was happening.but putting aside previous theories and just looking at this latest one..
In the knife expert’s scenario, Arias is under attack from the get go, and only able to run from Travis because Travis is wet, slowing his speed, and Arias has shoes on, enabling her to run quickly to get the gun. Question: If Arias was under attack, and able to out run Travis, why didn’t she run down the stairs and out of the house?
Knife expert says that the knife was in the bathroom because the rope was cut in the bathroom . He says the rope was cut in the bathroom because it would fray and mess up the bedroom if they cut it there. He says that they may have even needed to burn the ends of the rope to keep it from fraying. Speculation, but I digress. He says that Travis received the deep cuts on his hands from being sliced at while he was holding onto Arias clothing. He says Arias grabbed the knife to slice at his hands to free herself. Question: if the knife was in plain sight in the bathroom, and Travis wanted to kill Arias, why didn’t HE grab the knife? If the purpose of slicing Travis hands was to free herself from his grip, why didn’t she flee when she succeeded in doing so? With such deeps wounds on his hands, how much of a threat was Travis to Arias at that point?
The “knife fight expert” describes his own ability (as a “trained” knife fighter) to slash a person’s throat when facing them. He says Travis was standing facing Arias and that his hands were down on his stomach wound , enabling her to slash his throat in a way that matches that autopsy drawing. Question: If Travis hands were down and on his own stomach, and he was just standing there, why, in a scenario of self defense, did Arias need to slash Travis throat?
The knife expert has analysed every wound with little regard as to how these wounds would exponentially diminish Travis ability to continue his attack on Arias. His theory is that Travis was in attack mode for the duration of the murder, til the throat slash ( his theory is gun shot first, same as defense) In this way he paints a picture of Travis as being of nearly unstoppable strength, requiring Arias to use a gun , huge number of stabs and a sliced throat to stop him from killing her. Yet Arias claims that she received no cuts or bodily damage whatsoever from the encounter.
——
Arias pled self defense, but her claim of self defense was not based on forensics, or analysis of the crime scene,it was based on the idea that because Travis had abused her, she believed he would kill her when she dropped his camera, and the homicide she committed was a reaction to years of abuse. The defense placed all their eggs in this basket, offering three witnesses to support the abuse and Arias state of mind. The prosecution focused on Arias lying and subtrafuge before and after the crime- and yes, as the “knife expert” says, neither side offered irrefutable forensics based proof. But frankly, the ” knife expert doesn’t offer a complete theory either, and throws in a lot of speculation. A lot.
Arias has offered explanations and justifications for every single thing about this crime, but refused to even comment on the stabbings, claiming amnesia. She has had five years to come up with a story , and my own speculation is if there were any possible way for her to justify the stabbings, the throat slitting, leaving him in the shower- all the things she says she forgets- she would have come up with it already.
My speculation is that the real reason behind the overkill is so heinous that nothing can explain it away, and that is why she cant remember it, either by choice or due to her own mind protecting herself. Either way, guilty
————
Would Arias agree to Life without Parole? If she has been sincere about remorse and not wanting to harm anyone anymore , yes. But in her last interview, she said if she ever saw freedom again she would ” act more responsibly”. I believe she has her sights set on life with parole.
She is probably right to imagine that Life Without Parole is just a slow version of the death penalty. If she would prefer death penalty to life without parole, not much incentive to taking a plea, might as well see what another jury says.
Will be interesting to see what happen s at hearing on June 20th.
@GeorgiaDad
“I suspect that TA’s interests in JA, at least initially, went beyond the many ways her lady parts could please his man parts. She likely came across as exciting, adventurous, liberating, and free; especially compared with the good mormon women he dated. Over time, I believe the veneer was worn through and he found her hollow emotionally, but still found the sex exciting. It is easy to say that he should have ended the relationship immediately at that point, but I suspect many single men his age, given the choice of an emotionally hollow willing sex partner or a mormon virgin, would have done the same.”
——————————————————————–
I agree. Little did he know or care to know she was a ticking time bomb. When he finally blew her off she sentenced him to death.
JA: “I believe death is the ultimate freedom, so I’d rather just have my freedom as ….. “I know that he`s in a good place and I know that he`s fine.” I hope you walk the talk Jodi.
Latest
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/05/jodi-arias-appeal-to-remove-death-penalty-denied/
hey who just wanted to let you know i appreviate each and everyone of your posts-
Re whodunnit-
You wrote in part:
Oh Mom 3.0- I understand exactly what you mean to say, and I fee eel your comapssion, but the one thing I believe has NOT taken place is a rush to judgement.
It seems more like it is a lack of judgement, or at least stalling every step of the way with legal maneuvering has left out what Arias may truly need in terms of qualified mental health evaluators and help- Look, she lied so much, wasted so much time with subterfuge- she may have just put herself on the life is too short list and strained the system so much she may never get help- let alone life.
—Whodunnit- guess what I agree with you It seems more like it is a lack of punishment, or at least stalling every step of the way with legal maneuvering
But in truth this isnt only JAs doing as LE failed to investigate secure the scene etc-
they didnt get the measurements for the closet till trial they didnt test the blood
hey didnt get the best analysis done on the pics
ME and Flores did get it wrong somewhere some how…
they didnt test the fibers
they didnt contact walmart they didnt IMO follow up with needed witnesses
i could go on but yeah justice takes time and I agree it was way too slow.
I just think some of that time would be better spent focusing on such things as a complete mental health work-up
AJMO
Peace
RE
jden says:
May 30, 2013 at 10:25 am
Mom @ 5/29 9:18pm
Always enjoy your perspectives but on this, I respectfully disagree.
-
Thanks jden DItto- your thoughts alays bring so much to the discussion
and its more than okay that you disagree and i appreciate your telling me in such a kind manner
jden my thoughts and opinions change in this case quite alot I find I disagree with myself often as
there was so much left open to interpretation and speculation in this case that for me it is maddening
One day Im right with everyone agreeing to JAs evilness and wanting to give her the death penalty – the next I waffle over those feelings and the great unknowns and I wonder if we all got it wrong somehow and just what that could mean IRT “the truth” and to justice
You wrote:
I adamantly oppose insanity defenses for the simple fact that no matter the state of mind, the crime was perpetrated and lives are changed.
-
i dont know if I can say that i adamantly oppose insanity defenses for those who are ACTUALLY insane–but as an excuse yes
when isnt an excuse what IS “insane”?
Thats my point jden that the criminal justice system ” sides” the state vs a defendant is less about truth and more about coming up with a theory that will help either side “win”
DYK John hinkley changed the way the insanity plea was handed down which was needed and several states do not even consider this as a defense any longer- and all the rest make it extremely hard to actually go forward with insanity as a defense…
jden,
whether a person died by accident or was killed by the hand of another deliberately and with malice a forethought, or in the heat of the moment or in selfdefense
or for that matter in war by disease etc regardless… lives are changed
So for me that is a given- a sad fact but not necessarily evidence that the dp should be pursued
I agree that it all comes down to choices- Dahmer had a choice Bundy had a choice Gacy had a choice in fact
they had many- each time they searched for victims each time they chose to kill- they had a choice
I dont buy into they were evil or destined to be killers they made a choice-
and it would seem JA made a choice too-
choices should and do have consequences
Again i am not trying to excuse JA at all
I am trying to prevent the next JA
You wrote:
Arias killed Travis, admittedly, in a most heinous manner. That is an undisputed fact. She exhibits no remorse and no concern.
—
As for whether she showed remorse or concern I agree it seems as if she did not- but we all know that people react differently – no person reacts the same and some dont react at all, at least not openly, especially those who may be autistic or have other
Yes Arias finally admitted to killing Travis and before she admitted to killing him she herself said the killing was heinous.
The question in this case seemed to be did she make the conscious choice to kill him and was the killing especially cruel or was she basically on self defense autopilot and or in a dissociative state or incapable of making a choice.
regardless she killed him and she needs to be held accountable
Again I am not trying to excuse JA or any other killer
I am trying to say that i feel it would benefit society when once someone is caught and faces a trial especially a dp trial they are given a complete and thorough mental health work-up by objective well qualified Drs
the actual facts should be presented-
Hired guns should not be utilized to twist the facts to fit a theory the actual diagnosis is important and should be presented by both sides inorder for society to benefit & also for justice to be served.
My point is that the justice system seems to have become a game The sides seem to be less and less about facts and truth and more and more about “winning”
The state tries to dehumanize a defendant to the point they become evil monsters and the defense tries to present them as misunderstood angels
—The truth is neither
You wrote:
The Arizona taxpayers are responsible for the enormous debt of this trial,the state to spare and the inclination is to further add counseling, consultations and expert assessment fees. To what end? The taxpayers should pay to (attempt to) rehabilitate someone that has caused irreparable damage in such pain and dispair to so many?
Yes the tax payers are responsible for the enormous debt of this trial- but if we are to seek justice on the cheap or risk prevention for our wallets ..if that is to be the overriding factor- then no State or prosecution should ever opt to go for the death penalty- as so much more money is spent on trial and experts and appeals and mitigation specialists vs a “typical” trial
the- same for seeking LWOP as we the tax payers will have to pay the bill for those convicted years and years until death
Its should not be a matter of spending money or saving money it should be a matter of deciding where the money and time and effort is better spent
AJMO peace
Thanks for your well thought out post Jden to be cont in part 2
I think Travis had lots of big plans and wanted to be successful like Chris Hughes in PPL
Have a beautiful wife behind his ambitions like Chris has
When he realized his friends didn’t like Jodi
He took a closer look
” you are the worst thing that ever happened to me”
Malty you quoted what truly haunts me as the “preventable” aspect to this case. He knew it.
B
Mom3.0 says:
May 31, 2013 at 9:58 pm
—
Your list of what the prosecution failed to do – Please let it be that this is a matter of carelessnes of lack of preparedness.. I shudder to entertain any scenario where evidence has been purposely hidden- I can understand skipping stuff because it ultimately leads to a rabbit hole, but I really do pray that that the State does its best.. and frankly that the defense does its best too. In a perfect world, the truth will out.. though alas, not such a perfect world.
Jodi the HS drop out with history and poor social skills
Should have got her butt out of bed upgraded her education and social skills encouraged Travis ambitions
Instead she goes in his house when no one is home and makes cookies
The girl just didn’t get it. This is my opinion only
Re Jden part 2
You wrote:
You suggest that we “learn how to prevent another person that suffers from the same afflictions from becoming the next JA…” Optimal in theory, however, how would you propose to isolate those persons that suffer from such afflictions? Most individuals suffering from afflictions go undiagnosed.
I am not suggesting isolating anyone
but I am suggesting actually determining and presenting facts – vs dueling experts inorder to “win”
What I am suggesting is that our justice system actually take the time effort and money to actually figure out if a defendant suffers from some sort of mental health disorder- shouldnt the defense and the prosecution work together to find the truth of the matter
Shouldnt we all want to give the jury the complete set of facts especially IRT mental health
IMO The facts are needed inorder for justice to work as it should to deter to protect and to prevent and to POSSIBLY rehabilitate
Prevention
i am suggesting learning from those in our criminal justice system to help society protect themselves better
certainly Not every person who suffers from the same disorders goes on to become a killer
I am thinking on terms of doctors who study patients with other diseases
for instance
heart disease… Heart disease can cause fatal heart attacks all those who have a history of heart disease in their family or suffer from heart disease do not suffer fatal heart attacks
Doctors by evaluating and studying many patients they were able to figure out the best ways not just for those with family histories but for all of society to better protect themselves from the worst effects of heart disease
such as
watch salt intake
dont smoke
watch cholesterol levels
eat healthy
see your doctor regularly
exercise
avoid undue stress
for some medication is required
which meds are best?
for some surgery is required …which surgery?
for some a transplant is required
– So if we were to know the facts of any criminals disorders than surely Drs could work to give parents/ caregivers /society as a whole a guide to recognizing and utilizing prevention measures that may help us recognize or prevent and treat before the worst happens
AJMO
Peace
Cont part 3
Part 3 re Jden
You wrote:
Life is busy. Familial structure, role models and parenting modes have changed. Many parents, relatives and friends of offenders notice & report signs and symptoms only in hindsight. In many cases, not even cries out to social media sites have been taken seriously enough to halt danger before it occurs. Life is paced quickly, people demand instant results and gratification and we are hearing the term “entitled” much too often now.
–All that is true
but again if one looks at these afflictions as a disease with possible outcomes if x yz happens then ABC could occur be warned— like with heart disease Drs can come up with a guide so that we can take more personal responsibility in our own care inorder to prevent and protect
Will it stop every person from becoming the next JA or TB or JD or AL ot JH? No because nothing is a fix-all
I agree Life is paced quickly, people do demand instant results and gratification & Sometimes that can mean warning sgns are ignored- and still other times some despite having a family history or despite being diagnosed fail to heed the advice of Drs as its easier less expensive and more gratifying to live “normally”
And then still sometimes a person with no warning signs or no history can suffer from these disorders or drop dead of a Heart attack
So no there is no catch all no fix all but there are guidelines for disease prevention and control
Perhaps with the help of the criminal justice system such a guideline can be developed to help ensure good mental health and crime prevention
You wrote:
So, how would these people suffering from afflictions be isolated and helped? Given a diagnosis, how would you monitor, and would we then propose to police their medication program and counseling? Do we have the right to remove someone from an abusive environment and where then is the line? These are free will issues. That is an optimistic but extremely lofty, most complex, situationally specific and costly goal.
Again I am talking about presenting the facts the truth in court IRT mental health not presenting only the parts that fit the theory to secure the harshest punishment or to get a person “off”
working together both sides so that justice actually works the way its supposed to as a deterrent & as protection & prevention
I am not speaking of isolating anyone in society or monitoring/policing anyone in society or taking away their free will
i am talking about learning from those who suffer from a disorder who commit crimes – studying them learning from them & then using the information garnered to help establish a guide that if followed can help ensure you or your loved one is better educated to the risks of abc and the possible preventive measures to take to avoid the worst from happening
AJMO
More of your thought inspiring post in Part 4
Thanks again for sharing your perspectives w/me Jden
cont
Part 4
Re Jden
the end
You wrote:
Consider, conversely, DNA testing and gene specificity. Are we able to isolate a common gene in Arias and other extreme offenders? Good knowledge. But, suppose a DNA characteristic was proven key. Do we then DNA test all children and begin therapeutic measures in infancy? Is that constitutionally sound?
—
Jden – goodpoints and certainly something to think about
I would hope we all understand that this extreme- would be just that an extreme.
You wrote:
What exactly is wrong with Jodi Ann Arias? We agree she is a complex blend of psychoses. Regardless, a young man’s life was abruptly and catastrophically taken, his family’s lives are forever changed, and this country grieves with them.
Jden, my hope is to prevent another young man a brother a son a friend- from losing his life and another victims family from forever being destroyed
furthermore i am hoping to prevent another daughter from harming someone i am hoping to stop the killing before it happens
to spare her family from being destroyed as well
jden, I share in the grief of this country and all others – still succumbing to the grief will not prevent the next tragedy-
but prevention will
so it matters to me the truth of a defendants psychoses
it matters in coming up with possible treatments and guidelines etc to better protect my loved ones and yours from the likes of another JA
You wrote:
She killed him. It was cruel. How should she pay? Period.
No not period Jden ourjustice system is more than handing down punishment
justice is also about prevention and part of prevention can be found sometimes in rehabilitation…
sometimes in restitution and it could be found in diagnosing learning and understanding and then applying what we have learned in the hopes we can save even one family from the grief-
-
thanks for responding to my post Jden
Thank you for giving me so much to ponder
I hope I have done the same for you
AJMO Peace
PamSpaz says:
May 30, 2013 at 9:27 am
Mom 3.0 thanks for all your wonderful posts. This whole case has me on overload lol.
Hi thank you and I really enjoy reading your posts too, glad to know i am not the only one on overlaod
You wrote:
Trying hard to express my thoughts clearly re: truth without being misunderstood. Our justice system is not designed to seek the truth. Defendants have more rights than victims (innocent until proven guilty as it should be). I do not think there is a way to ensure obtaining the truth. Most if not all criminals will tell a fib to get away with whatever they are charged with.
–
Agreed I do not think we can ever get the full truth but I would hope we can all agree to strive to that-
especially in determining a diagnosis
and i agree a defendant needs to have rights as they are innocent – DEFINITE yes criminals can lie and often do but attorneys should be presenting facts especially IRT mental health
You wrote:
So here is a question, if JA had an extensive work up/analysis for a more complete diagnosis would we have the truth in this case? IMHO I do not think so. We will also never have the truth with respect to c word.
___
We may not ever know the truth,
but the fact of the matter is she did not receive a complete analysis as I showed with the DES if she answered the test based on the info we know- then she should have been given more stringent tests & evaluations to rule out DID …
Not just because she deserves the best defense but because we the public would better be served by the truth in working to recognize treat prevent etc-
You wrote:
So as I write this, I guess I need to ask when you are talking about the truth, are you talking about the truth of the crime or the truth about the persons mental health?
_
I was speaking Mostly mental health but yes in broader sense I spoke to the truth of the crime also because one effects the other do they not?
if the truth is she did suffer from DID then isnt it at least more likely that she was telling the truth about not remembering about blacking out – and if that is the case then that also could possibly effect the cruelty factor as – if shot first he could have been rendered unconscious etc
You wrote:
How can the knowing truth bring us to prevention? What would we do with a person that has similar traits to a JA or other criminal, that has not yet committed a crime? Medication/therapy??? is there a way to ensure those things would prevent people from committing such crimes?
Great question thanks for asking for my take
Jden had the same question great minds think alike- to spare you and everyone from possibly reading it twice please see my response to jden above
Thanks for your post PamSpaz- most appreciated
I look forward to reading more of your thoughts-
AJMO
Peace
RE Ragdoll
@ Mom3.0
Your posts never cease to amaze me. Your knowledge is to be commended, but I know that commenting on these intense, emotional threads can be daunting. After a good cleansing post, I’m exhausted on many levels. I need you to know how appreciative I am of your tenacity and ability to dig deep into yourself and the subject matter. In all seriousness, it’s inspiring to no end. Just WOW and thank you, for your service. Love you to pieces xo
–
Thank you from the bottom of my heart -
Im rubber your glue …everything said goes double for you
Love ya lots ragdoll
TGF take care
Mom signing off for now
as Igor said in the movie Young Frankenstien
its time to get out of there (here) and give someoneelse a chance
sorry for monopolizing the board enkoy your weekend guys
AJMO peace
Whodunnit says: The knife expert has analysed every wound with little regard as to how these wounds would exponentially diminish Travis ability to continue his attack on Arias. His theory is that Travis was in attack mode for the duration of the murder, til the throat slash ( his theory is gun shot first, same as defense) In this way he paints a picture of Travis as being of nearly unstoppable strength, requiring Arias to use a gun , huge number of stabs and a sliced throat to stop him from killing her. Yet Arias claims that she received no cuts or bodily damage whatsoever from the encounter.
____________________
Taking another look at this article I see that it only explains things from a defense point of view with Travis as the aggressor. Thanks for offering your comments and your perspective.
@Malty
I wish I had your way with words. You sure can make me think. Thank you for that.
@ Mom3.0
quote
Im rubber your glue…
unquote
I never heard that expression before until I watched ‘Friends’. Big hugs!
@Malty re Jody the HS dropout. I suspect her dropout was in sight from K on without school services, which schools fight. it is likely if a female her age & race drops out there was more to it than lack of motivation due to marijuana use. Likely she was self-medicating anxiety. imo either she was on the spectrum or had some other LD. Now if she lived in many major cities, with wealthy parents, she’d have been in a private like the Lab School using art to reach her. Imo the school system had probably failed her for years.
imo HerrS the Survivalist is full
if it with the knife fight.
His site says he is a writer of stories & fiction as well as nonfiction.
One label on his essay was “Innocence ‘Contest’”
About the only fact I saw was that Special Forces in 1960s were trained in knifefighting, and since he was in Special Forces, probably he was too..
At the same time, TA’s youtube speech was not only bawdy thruout, it was a demo of supple body movement.
He could leap, bend & move with the best of them inyouth group skits, for a prolonged period, altho his
were more more adult focused featuring himself as an appealing sexual being with fine taste & openness to women.
What is interesting is his Hughes role model put him in this role of using his bodily blessings to sell. Imo he was exploited, and trained to exploit, for sales imo. So I feel the shot must’ve been first to slow & disable his prowess.
He was too physically able to loose in a knife fight. Would’ve just grabbed her wrist and twisted.
While he would’ve been powerful in a fight with Jody, imo he was too weakened to put up much.
Rose, please excuse the off topic but I know I have many readers from these parts and I would like them to be aware:
http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/05/31/missing-nc-woman-holly-fischer-divorce-to-ali-girit-pending-upset-her-tennesse-police-ask-for-public-help/
Tia
B
cadillac– i caught your shades of oj comment ,awhile back , DID-YOU-KNOW- jodi has the same birthday as OJ and Amanda Knox ,and courtney love(documentary claiming she had kurt cobain killed)july what a weird coincidence.
I am going to go out on a limb here, and bring in another perspective of what ails JA. Could it be that she is just full of evil and darkness – more than the next person? I think she is VERY comfortable in her own skin, and does NOT wish to change one thing about herself. She is extreme – yes, but she is extreme in her darkness as well and I believe she was born like that. If there is/is not a label for it, then so be it. She is a murderer, and would likely murder again because of her disordered mind. How many inmates in a prison have a ‘like’ mind like hers? Do we go around labeling each and every one of them putting them in their own category of disorder(s) and then try to rehabilitate them? Can they be changed if there is a proper diagnosis? There are not enough doctors in the prison system to label each and every one and then fix them. The harsher the crime, the harsher the darkness, the harsher the sentence. There is no magic pill to give an offender to make them full of light. From a Corrections view, we house the disordered who can’t live in society because of their evil and darkness. To try to understand why each inmate committed their offense and then creating a label to explain it does not help keep the offender off the streets. There are some tormented souls who do horrible things to others, but then we have prisons for the criminally insane too. They have a label for sure, but can we help them out of their insanity to become responsible people in society? No, but we have some great medication to keep them under control.
There are no mitigating factors that caused JA to slaughter TA. There were no friends to speak highly of her, except for JA herself. She likes herself and is only distressed that she got caught. She is not a product of any abusive childhood. She was born with darkness and the darkness co-exists with evil within her. It leaked out with TA. Can we label her with a disorder that will explain her? Yes – but it won’t fix her. It won’t make excuses for her. She is what she is in the worst form.
I don’t wish to undermine anyone’s research into her mind. I too am very interested in knowing what makes her tick. But, she is really only a classic in that she is a female who committed an extremely brutal crime. And we have not seen too many like her in our time. She is a criminal in the eyes of the law and has to pay for her crime equal to the brutality of her crime.
I have over-simplified things I know, but it is not my job to know the dx of every inmate. I know they are criminals, and some are worse than others, but we house them because they are not fit for society. It works for the most part not knowing their crimes or their diagnosis.