In the first part of blinkoncrime.com’s exclusive interview with DeDe Spicher, she revealed that after over 3 years of attempting to provide Multnomah County Sheriffs Office as well as Assistant Deputy Attorney Norm Frink with the necessary information they requested to clear her from any suspicion in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Skyline second grader Kyron Horman; she has finally been cleared after passing a polygraph as part of her requirement under an immunity deal that has been sealed with the court. Unofficially cleared, that is.
Spicher and her attorney Chad Stavley, who have since refused all local media requests, would very much like the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office and current District Attorney Rod Underhill to clear her officially and publicly.
Spicher is adamant that law enforcement never had any reason to question her statements to them from the beginning, has cooperated fully for over three years and recently testified before the grand jury to prove she had nothing to hide. While she would like the public to know that any assertions to the contrary are untrue, and sometimes have been offered maliciously, her desire to speak out about her experience over the last three years is primarily to force investigative resources to review it’s progress- and hopefully adjust in a way to further leads in Kyron’s case.
As was proven not only by her recent polygraph, but also by the verification that no evidence ever existed to support investigator’s theory in the first place, Spicher had no information about anyone’s potential involvement in Kyron’s disappearance, let alone her own.
The continuation of our interview, which provoked some very interesting revelations long felt to be a possibility by many, was confirmed by Ms. Spicher as she says- told to her by Terri Moulton Horman are prompting new possible theories in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Kyron Horman. Two days after Kyron Horman’s eleventh birthday.
Stoy: So, in your estimation then, why do you think that detectives Herron and Kravfe were so sure that you were involved or knew who was.
Spicher: I have thought about this a lot, and I think there were a few reasons. I think because I was advised through a meeting Terri had with a family friend and attorney that she should assume that all of her communication was being monitored by law enforcement and anyone she had contact with. He told her to assume the house was bugged as well as vehicles, etc. I also believe you did an article a while back that pointed out her phone was in Kaine’s name. As this was a day or two after she was served with the restraining order, she was also told that
Stoy (interrupting): You bought a prepaid phone after June 28th and never had one before that? I had read that you or someone else purchased them the day of or the day after Kyron’s disappearance.
Spicher: No. I purchased one prepaid phone, after Terri shared the info from her meeting, in my own name, either June 29th or 30th. I think they were hung up on the fact that I came to her aid with no contact for so long so they just were convinced there had to be.
Stoy: ok, sorry, continue. So you are not saying that LE was suggesting that you were hiding some other number you had and that was how they were alleging that you HAD to have been in contact with Terri or some other person prior to and on June 4th and that escalated your “poi” status in your opinion?
Spicher: They did not say that to me specifically, but what they repeated over and over again, was that Terri and I had to have had some form of communication we were hiding. It never made any sense to me because I knew I only had my cell that I had forever until the end of June, and I knew I had not been in contact with Terri since her 40th birthday party in March. So I would ask- well then I guess that means that you don’t have any contacts you can’t verify from either of us so why am I even in this “interview”?
To my recollection they never shared with me or answered any of my questions in response when something they kept hounding me about seemed absurd and conflicting with their theory.
Stoy: Which was?
Spicher: At first, I think that they really believed I was involved, and at some point I think they were talking more “accessory after the fact” because I got the impression ( although they did not share it with me) that Terri’s cell phone activity that day was nowhere near where I was, and my vehicle never left, nor did I. They would not verify that they located the ceramics/glassware artist [pottery artisan] I told you about and still have not.
Stoy: So in your opinion, you were clearly the linchpin of this case, they [LE] believed you held the key to solving it and/or implicating Terri exclusively at that point, they no longer entertained your involvement per se?
Spicher: I honestly don’t think I could say that I ever believed that they stopped treating me as some sort of suspect. I never felt that way, but yes, absolutely they 100% believe that Terri is responsible and I definitely believed we all had to be interviewed and scrutinized or whatever, but I really thought up until the meeting with Norm Frink that they [LE] would abandon that theory quickly because if they were positive I was the key, and I knew I was not, that would also eliminate Terri, who I did not and do not believe, but have no proof, was involved or knew anything.
Stoy: Right, so if you had nothing, and they felt you were the only nexus, it had to mean that they had no independent evidence of anything or anyone else so they would start in another direction?
Spicher: Right, but every interaction I had with them following and including the request to participate in the sting against her, made me believe they never did. To get back to the why question you asked me- my final thought on that is that they kept pointing out that I was the person to tell everyone not to speak to them without attorneys in the beginning. I would ask like who do you mean, because that would have been my opinion across the board for any situation, but it was definitely based on what was getting out about how they were going about this. I was scared and it turned out it was good reason. I also would point out to them that I did not think that was or should be the basis for suspicion because if it was, it seemed to me that I was told that several staff members at Skyline had hired counsel, and Kaine was the FIRST to have one between he and Terri and I had told her at least a week or so before that she should.
Stoy: Why do you think she did not immediately take your friendly advice? Your Dad was LE, and I presume she knew that. People can say what they want, but I know many members of law enforcement in different jurisdictions and agencies. I have worked with them or contributed analysis to cases with them privately [I cannot and would not ever include that in anything I choose to write on] and I can tell you that I do not know one of them that if they were the focus of a criminal probe or internal investigation they absolutely do not agree to an interview without a representative. In fact, Herron is or was the President of Mulnomah County Police Union or was, if I recall correctly. So to that end, I find that a pretty hypocritical reason for suspicion of anyone.
Spicher: (laughs) Interesting. I am not sure that I knew that. The reason Terri didn’t get an atty before the RO was because she was told by LE that if she did, she wouldn’t be privvy to any of their investigative discoveries, she would be out of the loop in finding Kyron.
Stoy: Have you had a desire or opportunity to review any sort of past events regarding the MCSO, I guess I should add, that involve anyone in this case or investigation you have had contact with?
Spicher: No, do you mean like any other detectives or that sort of thing?
Stoy: Have you ever met with or been interviewed with any other agencies or detectives?
Spicher: I believe I either met or just said hello to the guy you mentioned in that recent article of yours while he was at the house. Both Kaine and Terri were there at the time as well.
Stoy: Bobby O’Donnell?
Spicher: That’s it, yes, him. Why did you ask me if I am aware of any sort of events- should I be?
Stoy: Well, I think that tangentially if I were you I would be considering just about everything as it related to what you have been through, and I am aware of some what I will refer to as “stuff” but what I don’t want to do prior to the completion of our interview process is temper any of your responses with anything I know peripherally if that’s ok with you. If you wish, once I publish the continuation which will have that sort of information, I would invite you to comment on it for the record if you choose- are you ok with that?
Spicher: yes, that’s fine and probably a good idea.
Stoy: back briefly to the “sting request against Terri- On that issue- the request they extended to you outside the presence of your attorney and that they asked you not to tell Chad, as you think back , considering you have had no communication with Horman for over three years did you believe they thought it would work? What did your attorney say when you told him?
Spicher: I can’t and won’t address any conversations I have had with my attorney, but to answer your question as to my opinion, I really don’t know for sure, I knew that I did not, and thought it was really, really odd- that was my first reaction. After more thought, and other conversations, I don’t see how they thought it would work, or why they were still seemingly convinced after I had just passed the poly, etc, Terri was still their suspect and responsible. What is your opinion on it?
Stoy: I think I may reserve my thoughts on that for my piece. Again, not wanting to temper your opinions as we move along here and I think that could happen if I did. Is that ok with you?
Spicher: Sure, thank you.
Stoy: I would like to move on to another subject for discussion. I would just like to confirm for the record that I have never prior to this interview, asked you any questions about your potential knowledge of steroid use by yourself, or by Terri or Kaine Horman. Is that correct?
Spicher: Correct, ok.
Stoy: Did they ask you this?
Spicher: Who is they? You got a lot of pronouns flying around (laughs).
Stoy: Fair point, you’re right. The good news is, as English, or should I say proper English is my second language (laughs) I use an copy editor. Allow me to rephrase please. Did anyone in law enforcement at any time ask you about steroids or other illegal injectable supplements sometimes used in weight training or body building in your interviews in this case?
Spicher: Your question was did they [le] ask me anything about steroids or anything injectable ever?
Stoy: (laughs) now who’s throwing around the pronouns?
Spicher: (laughs) touche’ . I was asked about it very vaguely in the beginning, I told them I had never used them, that I did not believe Terri ever did because she and I had similar views against using them and while we were on different supplement regimens when I was training for a marathon in 2008 I still remembered her to be knowledgeable about legal and effective nutritional supplements. I had no reason to believe she had ever used any kind of steroids. I can’t say conclusively she never did but it would shock me.
Stoy: Why shock you?
Spicher: Because a few years back I recall Terri telling me that Kaine was what she referred to as “juicing” and that his behavior had become very aggressive and well, impatient or overeactive with the kids and she had discussed it with him and he ignored her.
Stoy: So for the record, when you say juicing you are referring to illegal steroids, not my Omega specials I make, correct? That was the only question they ever asked you and did not ask any follow up questions like how long ago, etc, etc. And so would you characterize the way law enforcement asked that question and their reaction to your response as disinterested, or having nothing to do with the case?
Spicher: I was never asked about Kaine’s use of steroids by either detectives or the grand jury. But yes, that is what she told me. I actually had forgotten all about it until she refreshed my recollection when I stayed there with her. To the best of my memory I was asked just what I said, I answered as I just said and was never asked any follow up question nor was it mentioned again to me by law enforcement . I don’t think I ever really understood what they did or did not think in terms of my information was important to the case, but yes, they were disinterested from my perspective as to it was the only time I was ever asked about it over the course of three and a half years and so my assumption is they still are. But that is my assumption.
Stoy: Understood, you are referring to the time you stayed at the Horman home late June 2010 through early July 2010 following Kaine’s service of the restraining order and her exclusive use of the home? Spicher: I am not sure about the exclusive use part, I didn’t really know anything about how that sort of thing worked and I think for some reason I want to say Terri was not allowed to show anyone.
Stoy: Ok. Tell me everything you know about that. But, I would like you to see if you can provide me your recollection from what you were told about steroid use PRIOR to your conversations about it that refreshed your memory. By the way, who else knows about this, if you know.
Spicher: Terri’s attorney Stephen Houze.
Stoy: How would you know that?
Spicher: Because I helped her load them up, what appeared to me to be syringes in a box and deliver it to her attorney’s office, she said, at his request. She also located some cancelled checks for what she said was Kaine’s payment for steroids. I don’t remember who they were made out to but it was not to cash.
Stoy: ok, understood, we will get back to that. I want to try and focus on what she told you those “few years back.” Do you recall what year, even ballpark.
Spicher: I want to say, but can’t be sure, it was after her competition in 2005, and I am tempted to say it was around the time they got married or shortly thereafter- I am just not going to be much help in remembering this if you are asking me to extract what I remembered from then on my own.
Stoy: Nope, that’s what I am asking, your fine, I don’t want to lead you but let me ask you a few things that may help. Do you remember where you were during the conversation.
Spicher: I remember it was either the one and only time I ever had lunch with Terri, or it was during a time she called my cell, Terri had a lot of drama, and so I was in a Home & Garden Show class and I recall I was saying things out loud to let he know I was not free to talk really or respond as she was talking, so I was saying things like… I don’t know, we should probably touch base on that when I am done here, or sounds good that we chat on it later.
Stoy: The brush up the other party is not getting, like that?
Spicher: Yes, she was not getting it and so I was kind of 50% paying attention. It was either during that call or at the lunch. Other than that, I am not remembering the timing so well.
Stoy: But you would say a few years before Kyron went missing so based on that 2007 or 2008? Do you remember if they were married at the time?
Spicher: Again, we were friends for a good number of years but not close friends, I almost felt like if she was calling me or talking to me about it she had no other option at the time.
Stoy: Got it. What did she say
Spicher: She said that Kaine had been aggressive with her and impatient with the children and she attributed that to his “juicing”. She confronted him and she felt he did not listen to her. She told me that she then called a detective and turned in Kaine’s seller. The member at the gym, I used to know the name but I really can’t recall because I was in the early morning crowd and this guy was more afternoon, I presume when they were there or they saw him. I had stopped going to the same gym as them ater the first year or two I met them there.
Stoy: So she called a detective to turn in the seller Kaine was buying steroids from? Wasn’t she concerned about the fact that buying them is also illegal and that Kaine could face charges?
SPicher: She told me that she contacted a detective and said she would be willing to turn over information about someone selling steroids but only if she could do so anonymously and without saying who was buying them, etc.
Stoy: So it was your understanding that she was trying to work out a scenario that would stop Kaine’s use without him ever knowing it was her by turning in that person? Sort of like… she gets approval to remain anonymous, she gives the tip and then one day comes home and says… “Hey honey, guess what I heard at the gym.. you better stop that or you could be arrested for it, etc?
Spicher: Yes, something like that. Except and again, we have discussed it at one or both these occasions, but that did not work out. The detective called her again directly and she was upset that there was further contact. From what I recall, I think that was the tone of what she was telling me.
Stoy: Understood, so you are thinking that it may have been why she was sort of wired about it and not hearing you try to go about your day, but insisting and venting like she was upset by it.
Spicher: Yes, I think so.
Stoy: Do you think she could have called you because your Dad was law enforcement and she might need that sort of advice. I don’t think so because she did not ask for any. So then what? Did Kaine find out?
Spicher: I just remember there was some sort of investigation of the guy, and I really don’t know if Kaine ever found out about it or knows to this day. If the seller or anyone was arrested or anything else at the time I do not remember, that was how much I paid attention to it then until Terri reminded me of it.
Stoy: Ok. Now, why is it that Terri was discussing it with you when you were staying at the house with her in your view?
Spicher: Because after the restraining order was served and I guess she realized where Kaine was headed, it was sort of like- if he was going to badmouth her, in her estimation it was false, but anyway, that Kaine had skeletons in his own closet sort of thing. She told her lawyer [Houze] and she said he instructed her to bring the syringes and the cancelled checks to his office. We did.
Stoy: So was Terri saying that Kaine was using steroids behind her back and she found this or that she knew and was having sort of the same reaction as last time, or she just learned once he was out of the home or what? Was she suggesting this to you like it had something to do with Kyron’s disappearance?
Spicher: I got the impression she did not know, or at least did not know when the last time he was using them was, but it gets fuzzy for me there because it is my belief up until the time the RO was served, in my opinion she would have tried to protect Kaine from le finding out so I don’t know if she told le, but it would surprise me. Terri was always very family centric. She would protect her family unit, and that is why she did the turning in thing, this would seem the same to me until he made those murder for hire allegations.
Stoy: So did you get the impression from her that she thought that her allegation of Kaine’s steroid use had anything to do with Kyron’s disappearance?
Spicher: No, not at all.
Stoy: Nothing like, maybe this happened as some sort of retribution against her for turning someone in previously or against Kaine if they thought he was involved because after all she says he was the one buying it back then?
Spicher: No, she told me she had no idea who was responsible for Kyron’s disappearance or why, and the only possibility she came up with after the fact because of his past behavior and the fact that he showed up at her door demanding $10,000 she had no idea what he was talking about, that it was the landscaper. He was the only person acting like a criminal at the time.
Stoy: Have you ever seen a text of hers involving the custody situation after the fact, after the Rudy Sanchez Estrada “sting” and she called police twice that day/evening that ended with “mark 1 for the FBI.”
Spicher: I may have, if I did I don’t remember it specifically.
Stoy: She specifically said the FBI, who has only ever assisted in this case, and who has no jurisdictional presence in Kyron’s case, I was just wondering if you had any thoughts on that.
Spicher: No, I don’t have any idea what she meant.
Is it possible that illegal steroid use or sales and the recent public outing there was an ongoing Federal Investigation with the emphasis on police and gym members that included persons familiar to the Horman’s contributed to the circumstances involving the disappearance of Kyron Horman?
Has it been excluded by having more law enforcement investigating themselves?
Roid Rumors and Boys In Blue.. Coincidence Or Clue?
It is no secret that Oregon has seen it’s share of corruption allegations in recent years. The very public and very disturbing account of it’s Governor Neil Goldschmidt’s involvement with a 14 year old girl earned Willamette Week’s Nigel Jaquiss a Pulitzer in 2005 for breaking the story a year earlier. As a strong argument for the trickle down effect, Goldschmidt’s former driver Bernie Giusto- who became the Multnomah County Sheriff following the debacle, was forced to resign his position when a State agency declared they would be removing his police certifications due to his lack of “moral fitness” outlined in the now infamous Giusto Report. A former Sheriff, Bob Skipper, was then appointed to take his place, but after two attempts could not pass the required certifications. The current Multnomah Sheriff Dan Staton, who has since won an election, was appointed in his place. Several current MCSO officers assigned to Kyron’s case were interviewed for the Giusto report.
In fact, Bobby O’Donnell was the lead investigator in Kyron’s case for the first 18 months who according to his own words in his interview was the unfortunate subject of an allegation involving his own very messy divorce.
MCSO Sgt Brett Ritchie stated in a police interview that O’Donnell was seen waving a gun and threatening his life [Ritchie] after he began dating O’Donnell’s ex wife. Laura O’Donnell was granted a restraining order against him that later became an agreement between the couple.
The lead investigator in the case of a missing child openly threatened a ranking officer and that incident was never investigated outside of Ritchie being told to stay away from O’Donnell. O’Donnell’s deposition and his motion to quash it are the subject of a hearing scheduled for Friday September 13, 2013.
There is no question the agency tasked with the investigation into the disappearance of Kyron Horman has had several and more recent embarrassing entanglements.
In another investigative piece by the Willamette Week, it exposes the egregious overtime paychecks that members of the prosecutors and investigators assigned to Kyron’s case have received during the early months following Kyron’s disappearance.
It is unclear how Multnomah County ever had jurisdiction in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance. According to the Skyline School’s filed safety and response plan, the Portland Police Bureau is the agency of record.
Multnomah County’s former woes might have paled a bit in comparison if only by the difference a year makes to public memory, to that of their fellow neighboring officers in Canby, located in Clackamas County.
After several investigations into the selling and possible use of anabolic steroids a Canby Police officer, which were repeatedly stalled due to his caption tipping other’s off in the alleged ring , Officer Jason Deason was arrested along with Canby Landscape Supply Owner William Traverso, Brian Casey Paul Jackson were arrested. The investigation was believed to be ongoing and Traverso, Deason and Jackson all cut deals for quick prison stints that shocked fellow officers and the public alike. The specifics of which were sealed by the court. It is now known that the Federal Bureau of Investigation continued to require the ongoing cooperation of it’s criminals turned informants to pursue federal indictments against possible targets in law enforcement and members of the bodybuilding set- to include acquaintances of Kaine and Terri Horman.
Presuming the confirmed allegations are true- is it possible that ‘a few years back’ Terri Horman unwittingly set off a state turned Federal investigation into the buying, using and selling of human growth hormone and anabolic steroids? How could this be connected, if it is, to the timing of Kyron’s disappearance even if she had?
“… Jackson, through a plea deal on state charges in 2009 where he admitted to selling anabolic steroids to Canby police officers in uniform, had been working with the FBI on an ongoing investigation when they confronted him with the knowledge that he was found deceptive on a polygraph designed to indicate if Jackson’s participation was far more extensive then he originally admitted to…”
“…Jackson, with his attorney, began cooperating with federal authorities shortly after his arrest. He identified his source for steroids as Vancouver resident Rainbow “Bo” Wild Keepers, 39, a competitive bodybuilder and photographer. Agents ran Keepers’ name in federal databases and discovered that an Arizona man had tipped off the Drug Enforcement Administration years ago that Keepers was his source of steroids. Keepers was never charged…”
On June 3rd, 2010, approximately 24 hours before Kyron Horman’s disappearance, Jackson was arrested on a Federal warrant following a sealed indictment issued the day before after failing a polygraph and refusing to help the FBI further.
Between June 2, 2005 and May 2008, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials B.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).
It has since been revealed that the initials BW stand for Bradley Worden. Worden owns a few businesses, all relating to wholesale gym equipment or nutritional products. Worden has never been charged.
Between June 2006 and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials N.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).
The identity of the person with initials NW is unknown.
Between June 2, 2005, and December 2007,: in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule illcontrolled substances, to a person with the initials G.P., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and
841(b)( 1)(E).
The identity of the person with the initials G.P is unknown.
Between June 2, 2005, and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule III controlled substances, to a person with the initials S.B., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and 84l(b)(1)(E).
The initials S.B. refer to Steve Beaudoin, a former work associate of Jackson’s and current Oregon State safety officer.
According to assistant U.S. Attorney Jane Shoemaker, Jackson sold Beaudoin at least 50 pills of the steroid Winstrol, an injectable steroid called Deca Durabolin, Sustanon and, in June 2007, 100 pills of Anavar on one to two occasions. Shoemaker also said Jackson sold Beaudoin $500 worth of human growth hormone. Investigators discovered the sales through witness interviews and Jackson’s computer records, Shoemaker said.
From Buff To Puff
In contrast to Jackson, although Traverso also sold to Deason and other members of law enforcement, William ‘Jake’ Traverso, a former competitive bodybuilder and “Mr. Oregon” cooperated extensively with the FBI by identifying other law enforcement officers he sold steroids to, and got a lenient sentence of 15 days in jail, 30 days home detention and 24 months probation, with no federal charges.
In a letter submitted to a Clackamas County judge Monday, FBI Special Agent Christopher Frazier said that Traverso has discussed his drug distribution activities in detail. “The public safety employees identified by Traverso included law enforcement officers, corrections officers, fire and rescue personnel and university public safety officers,” Frazier wrote, “Several spin-off FBI public corruption investigations were initiated as a result of these allegations, and are ongoing.”
Traverso, Deason and Jackson were cooperating with the Feds simultaneously, and in a very public way. Although Deason had been similarly employed by the Canby Police under Chief Greg Kroeplin, at least one of the raids on Traverso- Deason’s client, was by Deason’s Canby fellow officer James Murphy.
John Hingson, Traverso’s attorney and past commentator on the Horman case, sparred with then ADA Norm Frink as well. Hingson unearthed the report that included Murphy had been demoted following Deason’s arrest and his credibility was called into question. Murphy worked the graveyard shift with Deason. The report also revealed that both Deason and Officer James Murphy, who was one of the few to initiate an investigation into Deason’s steroid abuse, were put at risk when they were scheduled to work side by side as the only two officers on that shift.
“…Hingson obtained a 2009 report written by private detectives the City of Canby had hired to investigate the steroid scandal. Among their findings: Murphy had been demoted from detective to officer for alleged dishonesty…”
Chief GregKroeplin resigned prior to release of a scorching memo outlining the city’s findings they had outsourced properly to two retired Oregon detectives, which would have resulted in his termination.
Murphy, still employed by Canby Police, is apparently looking to renew the agencies stint for bad press.
On October 13, 2011, six months after former Willamette Week journalist James Pitkin featured his Lord of The Flies article outlining Murphy’s internal investigation led to his demotion for dishonestly, he arrested a freelance sports reporter while taking pictures of him exiting the Canby Police Headquarters on duty and entering his personal vehicle.
Andrew Millbrooke filed a Federal lawsuit in 2012 against The City of Canby, Officer James Murphy and his captain Bret Smith for excessive force and wrongful arrest which took place after Murphy used his cruiser to follow Millbrooke who was on foot. In a police report from another officer in the case, Millbrooke tells him he is a freelance journalist trying to expose corruption and drug use by Officer Murphy. The suit is pending. A review of the declarations by both Mr. Smith and Mr. Murphy do not include the details of the investigative report commissioned by The City Of Canby discussing Mr. Murphy’s prior demotion. Mr. Murphy also had a recent court decision regarding improper procedure [See Bonneau].
With pending motions to release the employment files of some Canby police officers to include Murphy, the charges against Traverso were dismissed this past May due the state delaying the case over 23 months.
Traverso, Deason and Jackson are all currently on probation. Traverso is awaiting trial on recent charges involving watermelon theft.
As the Federal Bureau of Investigation is listed as an investigative partner to MCSO in the Kyron Horman investigation, it is their policy not to release files where they are not the lead agency of record or during an ongoing criminal investigation .
Requests for comment from Kaine Horman through his attorney Brett Engel regarding the allegations that he has either purchased or sold illegal steroids have not been returned at the time of this publication.
However, in an article published to include a quote from Kaine Horman it seems that Kaine confirms Ms. Spicher’s assertion that Terri Horman did not use illegal steroids, but rather nutritional supplements and had moved past those very quickly after her bodybuilding competition.
“…Kaine said he noticed a sharp shift in her behavior, saying she became self-centered and short-tempered.
“She’s not eating a lot of food, she’s exercising twice a day, she’s up at 4 o’clock in the morning, she’s not sleeping at night so we get just general irritable behavior towards everyone around her,” he said.
He said she consumed over-the-counter stimulants, such as fat burners, in high doses. In four months between January and April, she shed 62 pounds, dropping from 185 to 123 pounds, he said.
At the end of April, with her muscles bulked up and skin glistening with a bronze tan, she competed in the Emerald Cup bodybuilding competition in Bellevue, Wash…”
S.Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief, www.blinkoncrime.com was able to independently confirm Ms. Spicher’s account of alleged steroid use and ensuing investigation of a gym member as told to her by Terri Horman.
The source, an associate of Terri Horman, DeDe Spicher and Kaine Horman who declined to be identified, went on to say that at the time it was “… really common knowledge who was using steroids and who was selling them…” “… was not aware previously that Terri Horman claimed to have instigated contact with law enforcement to turn in the seller…” The source declined to identify the seller and could not say for certain if he was charged and likely would not away- given the request not to disclose the source’s name on the record.
Reached for comment, Terri Moulton Horman Attorney Stephen Houze declined to comment based on his policy of not speaking publicly when a client has pending legal matters.
A request for comment to Mr. Bunch, Terri Horman’s divorce attorney has not been returned by the time of this publication.
More Questions Than Answers..
Following several hours of interviews with DeDe Spicher, the woman who was not a close friend to Terri Horman but ultimately was the closest to her in the early days of the investigation- are we left with more questions than answers about what could have happened to the little boy whose 11th birthday was 2 days ago?
Spicher concedes that anything she discussed as told to her by Terri Horman in some minor instances may only be verifiable by Horman herself- and she is not talking… Yet.
She also points out that ultimately everything she told me she shared with investigators as far as “truthfulness” was confirmed by a polygraph – to include the question “Was she withholding any information from investigators?”
She was not.
Although limited, Spicher’s accounts in many instances confirm sparse information heard early on from Terri herself. Not the least of which was that although widely criticized for not speaking out publicly, she was told by investigators not to under any circumstances- and when she broached the possibility of retaining counsel was told that she would then be cut off from any information as to the investigation process to find Kyron Horman.
Through Spicher, Horman also confirmed that out of concern for Horman’s “spacieness” which she defined by walking into a room and staring off, not remembering, etc, Terri Horman called his pediatrition Thursday June 3rd and made an appointment for Friday June 11th. His last day of school. Horman also told Spicher that Kyron had wondered off or got lost while in his teacher Ms. Porter’s care once before when following a fellow student out of class.
Initially, prior to learning Kyron had been marked absent not very long after she left the building, that was Horman’s first thought. Those hopes grew into panic with that revelation that he had been missing for hours.
Spicher says Terri was adamant that she never had a sexual relationship with the now infamous landscaper Rudy Sanchez Estrada Spicher agrees that her friend had the propensity to be flirtatious but she never knew her to be sexually promiscuous. Outside of the fact that she says at Kaine’s request to occasionally include an additional female in the bedroom, to which Spicher declined, she was not aware that the Horman’s had a swinger lifestyle.
To her knowledge, there were other women that were asked to participate in a threesome with the couple that did not say no some years ago, but had no current knowledge and she herself was never involved with Horman sexually.
In her take, the addition of a 3rd female was an expression of control on Kaine’s part in the relationship.
Terri explained the landscapers “sexual accosting” , previously reported exclusively by www.blinkoncrime this way:
“… She said she had Kitty on her hip and he came up behind her and was kissing her neck and put his arm around her and when she verbally resisted with concern that Kitty was in her arms he sort of grabbed her and she spun around and broke free…”
Spicher adds that on more than one occasion she tried to bring that up during meetings with DA Norm Frink and investigators. One one occasion, as suggested by her Father, a former Klamath County Marine Officer, at their own expense The Klamath County Sheriff and his first lieutenant had agreed to meet with Frink, Spicher and her father on DeDe’s behalf to sort of provide character backgrounds and family history he felt would be helpful in clearing her.
“… This came up in the first interview I had with Mr Frink and I told him she had made that call. Later in the interview when he was trying to push more of my buttons, he tells me that call never happened (implying Terri had lied to me). I told him okay, that’s what you’re telling me, but I recall it differently (implying he was lying to me right then). He got very angry about that and insisted it was “fact”. I said okay, whatever. Much later, like one of the last times I met with Mr Frink, the Klamath County Sheriff and his 1st Lieutenant flew up on their own dime to meet with Mr Frink & Keith Krafve to see if they could help by offering their opinion of my character, and that it didn’t seem unusual to them at all that I would go help Terri, that it is very consistent with how my family has always been. At that meeting, I retold the story of Rudy sexually accosting Terri (her words), but said I wasn’t sure about the 911 call. That totally infuriated Mr Frink. I told him I was trying to believe him and simply not certain about what I could remember on that point.
The DAs office behaved very strangely toward the Klamath Co Sheriff and his Lt. They tried everything they could to keep us separated and even insisted that they (the DAs office) drive them back to the airport, despite the fine fact that we (Dad & I) had picked them up and brought them in, and would definitely be seeing them again in the near future. It was just weird, to all of us…”
I asked DeDe if she used the term called 911 in every exchange. She had. I asked her if she got the impression that the reason Frink was so sure it never happened was because there was no 911 call on the record about it – could it be that maybe she reached out to that former law enforcement person she contacted on the steroid issue and it was actually a dispatch call versus a trackable 911 call issue.
Spicher says she got the impression that Frink was suggesting that the “accosting” as described by her friend did not happen, but could not be sure except to say that Frink seemed to become irate when she brought it up on every occasion. Spicher felt Sanchez Estrada was the only person behaving like a criminal and that supported the accounts she was given.
I asked DeDe if Terri mentioned ever paying Sanchez Estrada for work at the Horman home. She said she did not recall Terri ever saying anything other than she had no idea what he was talking about when he came to the door and asked for $10,000 so she slammed the door in his face and called 911.
Stoy: So did she think it was some sort of extortion attempt now that she had mentioned him to investigators and they told her that they had interviewed him?
Spicher: She thought that he was dangerous from her past experience.
Stoy: Did you think it was odd that with a brand new John Deere tractor parked outside that TH was hiring a landscaper? I was able to confirm through other sources that he cleared some blackberry or blueberry bushes similar to Ms. Von Klevelen, and the tractor does not have a UCC lien on it, meaning it was not financed.
Spicher: No, it wasn’t. Kaine bought it. It was Terri’s job to manage the inside of the house as well as the entire property. I knew that when Kaine would travel he would come up with this project lists for her to complete by the time he got home. I mean, like cleaning the gutters, cutting the grass, washing all the windows, that sort of thing. To the best of my recollection Terri and Kaine did not have bank accounts together- he controlled everything he made.
Stoy: With a baby, 7 year old and teenager and hubby out of town? How was she managing that? No wonder he was suggesting that she was pouring through money like water or something like that, she was probably hiring help. I am not even sure I think a woman by herself at that property with a baby should be on the roof by herself anyway.
Spicher: No, Terri had to pay any support money or whatever to the household expenses and I have surmised Kaine gave her some sort of allowance which she probably blew through pretty quickly on frivolous things like food and clothes for her children. I have never known Terri to be frivolous with money. I know of at least two times when the projects she was supposed to accomplish were impossible for her to manage. One was the windows so I believe she hired someone that time and as I recall her parents paid for that. I believe the other was the landscaper.
Stoy: Is it a fair question for me to ask how you feel about Kaine, from your tone I am sensing you are not a fan.
Spicher: I have tremendous compassion for Kaine- he lost his child- what can one even say about that? But no, he is not someone I would want to be friends with today and I was cordial to him whenever I was around him but he was very controlling and was pretty mean to Terri about her weight from Kitty, things like that- I am not going to have anything in common with that.
Stoy: Did Terri ever mention anything about conflicts with Desiree Young, whether they were between her and she or Kaine and Desiree?
Spicher: Not that I recall, but I also never heard her speak of Desiree negatively at any time previously or when I stayed with her [Terri].
Stoy: That is saying a lot because right after the sting Ms. Young was pretty accusatory pretty quickly- and I do note that was based on information from law enforcement. Similar to some of the things both she and Kaine said publicly about you. Are you angry about that?
Spicher: O my no. That poor woman is going through hell and acted on information that I was told, lie or not, was given to her and Kaine. I have nothing but compassion for her and I wish I could shoulder some of her pain because I can.. I have nothing but compassion for all of Kyron’s parents and any anger I have over how I was treated, what I went through would never be directed at them. I really pray that Kyron will be found, I choose to put my energy into hope for that.
Pending Matters
Through Attorney Bunch, Terri Horman makes the claim that both law enforcement and Kaine Horman have been perpetrating the dissemination of inaccurate information involving the circumstances of Kyron Horman’s disappearance.
In a recent filing, set for hearing this Friday, Bunch pens a scathing reply to Deputy O’Donnell’s motion to quash, and accuses the county of improper ex parte communication.
Early this afternoon, a source within the Multnomah County Courthouse speaking on the condition of anonymity has confirmed that on behalf of Multnomah County, a motion has been filed to limit certain documents or discoverable information related to Mr. Horman and Bobby O’Donnell of the MCSO.
A hearing is scheduled before Judge Kantor for this Friday September 13, 2013
Jacqueline Beaufort, Ellie Sanders – research and contributing editors to this article.
Curious why you mention Anna Song Canzano growing up in Ptld’s Hispanic community? She is Asian, born in Taiwan–grew up in Ptld. Not sure of Parkrose’s Hispanic percentage. Her reporting on the missing/murdered Oregon City Girls, Miranda Gaddis and Ashley Pond, and her reporting/interviewing the murdering slime Ward Weaver was what brought her accolades. The O’s golden sports dude was another prize.
JC interviewing KH—that was a little strange. But that’s my opinion.
And Rose—I have a feeling you are right about TMH’s turning in the drug supplier has some deep roots in this mystery.
After reading the request for the emergency hearing, it all comes down to that last meeting between TH and RSE which I assume was in May, where she called the cops, and now he is advised by his lawyers not to answer any questions wrt that 15 minute meeting. What can’t RSE disclose about that meeting? It’s obviously not something that makes TH look bad.
grasshopper says:
December 9, 2013 at 5:01 pm
link now up on max’s article
BunchofHouzes response
Blink says, “I believe the meeting in reference is the sting, erose.”
B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Me: I’ve heard that the meeting they are referencing is not the sting, but a meeting in which TH allegedly told RS she had decided to work on her marriage (as opposed to ridding herself of KH). This could be a rumor that is floating around, idk, but TH’s lawyers appear to be very interested in having the content of both meetings placed in the record, and have said if content of second meeting is not allowed, then all of RS’s testimony should be disallowed/stricken.
You must have missed the part you snipped from my post.
“…are you telling your husband that you are doing the work? And telling your friends that your husband is making you do it? Do your friends believe you clean gutters, clear blackberry bushes and drive a John Deere meanwhile, you’re not?”
Grasshopper, I won’t accuse you of projecting onto Kaine, Desiree, and LE and you don’t accuse me of doing same to Terri, K?
Her actions speak for themselves. Let’s not forget she was talking before July 2010 and her friends shared what she wrote in emails and what she had to say… Dede Schneider as one example.
==================================================================
What actions? I ask this of everyone on this blog thread.
What actions?
We have not heard TMH speak, and information has been floated out by people who know her that she was told NOT to speak.
We have not watched her address a crowd of reporters. She can’t do that.
She DID speak to LE, a lot, when Kyron was first missing. Recklessly, if what DDS says is very accurate. DDS suggests that TMH was not even considering, for some time, that LE was going to treat her as a suspect.
We have not watched her in her home, or around her children.
We have NOT seen “actions” in any form of any substance on the part of TH.
The only thing I have seen is her walking from the gym with KH to their car. HE WAS AT THE GYM but people ganged up only on her about going to the gym.
Why?
Can someone explain these attacks on TMH for doing something that her own husband, walking right next to her, is also doing?
But I digress.
What actions? There is nothing I have seen of TMH that screams oddball or menace to me. Nothing. I watched her in the parking garage avoid the reporter when she was walking there with a woman from her lawyer’s office. I would not speak to a report either, in her shoes. Nothing hinky to me in that situation.
I do not think hiring a lawyer proves guilt or something to hide. Never have.
I do not think remaining silent is hiding something. Never have.
I do not think a still-angry ex-wife and the estranged husband and the stepfather are impartial, objective sources for everything that TMH did when she pooped on the potty or dusted the house plants.
Honestly and sincerely…what actions?
Sexting with Cook for me is my answer as something as an analyst gave me pause, and does, to this day. I do not form any criminal inferences from it, but even if it was her thumbing her nose at Kaine, it was odd and I found it disassociative of her situation. To your point, I have never felt her not speaking publicly can be used against her as a personality assessment and I think for those doing that they need to realize it is not objective.
The issue is not perfection- it is this woman has never been charged with anything, and now we see why. I am not understanding how she is not getting increased benefit of the doubt.
For anyone interested in hearing tonights interview with Dana, my portion, here is the link
I learned long ago, if you want something done, do it yourself. (If you can, of course, or at least *think* you can.) That outlook sometimes does pose a threat to the self-perceived manly-hood of some men. That is not what I think of when I look to my man. (Dipped my own tools pink once, so that husband would not claim they were his, when he couldn’t find his own.) I have pretty much done it all. gutters, lawns, pruning and painting form ladders, chicken coops, bit of building, bit of roofing, laying brick, doesn’t matter, even some plumbing and electrical. Butttttt….I did these things because I wanted to. Big difference than if some demanding spouse was saying go fix such and such and oh, by the way, while I’m out of town, would you make sure these gets cleaned or that gets done. Big, big difference. Kudos to all you ladies who have the gumption to try to fix things yourself whenever it’s necessitated.
At the same time, I have zero problem saying how much I appreciate my man, my husband, my very best friend.
Agreed. In my over 100 hundred interviews about or in reference to this case I have to be honest about one common thread. If the conversation drifted to the Kaine dynamic with me seeking confirmation on this whole when Kaine went away there would be no play and hell to pay ( my words) it was very consistent in the affirmative. However, that was TMH choice.
I dunno about you or most, but in my imperfect life with my imperfect spouse and imperfect children part of the family journey is to suck it up on occasion ( not referring to abusive relationships), maybe for her this was that. Do I agree with it, would it work in my home? Hell No, but it could be a non-issue for some.
B
Blink, You and your team’s stats as reported on the show are impressive, 6 for 6. Your prognosis for this case is disheartening to say the least.
Thank you but I have to mention the unsolved outweighs that rate, unfortunately. I wish I had a better outlook for Kyron and this case.
It just geeks “Greeker” by the day.
B
I’ve asked this before, I know, but does anyone know if Tony Young would be considered as LE in the judge’s ruling about not being able to ask Mr. Horman anything that came from LE in his deposition? Would that include Officer Young or would Officer Young be considered part of the family, just Kyron’s step dad in the eyes of the judge?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi T.Ruth, the judge is referencing LE that are part of the criminal investigation. Det. Tony Young is the victim’s stepfather, and is considered part of the victim’s family.
@TRuth. wrt “Why is Houze so adamant in Kaine’s deposition about Kaine somehow having information about Terri that would put her in a negative light **prior** to Kyron going missing?” Because that’s absolutely untainted by LE.
So he’s free to opine on anything negative. & Houze knows he can’t come up with anything. And he doesn’t.
—
great show Blink. Saving you (or Harper) my best soup bones in future.
Thank you kindly rose- just no minties please. She hides them in her bed or under rugs, LOL.
B
@Grass. I’d make it broad & openended,
allowing him to get across whatever he
deems most relevant & pithy.
That seduces an answer.
—@Kat. TY so much for correcting me.
I should have reviewed before comment.
I recalled her growing up there able to go away to
college on scholarship & even noted she was Asian
like the OLive Brown reporter who’s so good on Ed
(and my daughter, so you’d think I’d remember).
All this RSE stuff put Beejay & her preoccupation with
Hispanic community opinion, & knowledge, being important.
I feel we are overlooking that source of info, as mcso has.
I feel if Canzano’s husband made those public statements
they should recuse themselves from covering & just simply
privately volunteer.
Amys Sister says:
December 10, 2013 at 5:26 pm
It does burn me up a little that they could have had a great life! He earned enough money to support the fam. Terri was trained in working with children. A nice home in a great community. What appear to be three awesome kids.
I know people aren’t perfect and life is messy. We all live it. I just wish these two could have found happiness inside themselves.
———— Suzie Q- I edited your comment to AS. Respectfully, I know you to be capable of a better and gentler way to get that opinion across, or if not, to scroll and roll
B
Amy’s Sister says, Besides, there is no evidence Kaine left notes and demands for Terri except her word. Meanwhile there is evidence she wanted her husband to believe she did far more than she actually did then made up stories to their acquaintances to make him look bad.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How do you know this? Did her friends give interviews to media or provide emails to this effect to media? I don’t claim to remember every detail of this case, and don’t remember direct communication from T on this subject. If it came from LE, K or D, we know that they are all capable of distorting the truth for their own reasons with the intent of disinformation. What is disinformation? According to wikipedia “disinformation is intentionally false or inaccurate information that is spread deliberately. It is an act of deception and false statements to convince someone of untruth. Disinformation should not be confused with misinformation, information that is unintentionally false. Unlike traditional propaganda techniques designed to engage emotional support, disinformation is designed to manipulate the audience at the rational level by either discrediting conflicting information or supporting false conclusions. A common disinformation tactic is to mix some truth and observation with false conclusions and lies, or to reveal part of the truth while presenting it as the whole.”
There is a lot of disinformation going on in this case. Anything provided by LE, K or D is suspect since their agenda is to destroy T’s credibility and convince everyone she is guilty of various things.
While we have LE, K and D’s behavior and words on which to base interpretation and opinion, we have very little info on T’s activities and words. K and D’s description of her words and activities don’t count.
Just an idea. It works away from my suspicions about KH, but I was always entertaining anybody else’s ideas about this case as well as my own.
Abusive men — whether ‘hitters’ or emotional manipulators or both, the type who are abusive solely toward the woman in their home — will often show an extraordinarily high level of respect to other men who are in positions of authority. This could explain why KH might have simply been bowled over by the cops from the get go, and believed absolutely everything they said about ANYTHING.
what steroids, affairs, & drinking can do in what “should” have been a nice family. Imo steroids probably
placed the wife & children in greatest danger, with a gun in the house.
Doubt any of us have firsthand experience with this. Terri may have. Unless I lived there, I don’t know.
Note he fooled his co-pastor & congregation both.
“. In her petition, Rhonda said steroids were found by family members in his closet, along with pills, needles, vials of liquid and flasks of alcohol.” http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-12-05/news/os-isaac-hunter-john-parker-20121205_1_associate-pastor-church-staff-member-john-parker
1. Olive SW hills/SI resident says that given the seclusion of Sheltered Lane, why would LS Rudy go to a restaurant to present this “plan”?
I’ve been there….long driveway, secluded plot.
2. Lost in translation issue:
“She told me specifically. I don’t remember, but she told me that she wanted me to help her get rid of her husband. I don’t know if that was the correct word, but she tried to make me understand that,” Sanchez said, according to court records.
When Sanchez was asked if he remembered Terri Horman using the words “get rid of,” he replied, “No, but she implied it, not specifically.”
So, when you factor in the translator (see depo) and the passage of time (nearly 4 years since the original communications) how many times removed from the actual words are we?
Words are important. Idioms are important to understand. Listen to Rudy. Did the translator have to tell him what “get rid of” means.
If, after 4 years, Rudy still needs a translator, imagine his english-speaking proficiency at the time of the MFH meeting?
Rudy had his lawyer there. Yes, it is protocol to have a translator, but the thing about translation is that the translator themselves can, unknowingly, create a “meaning” or, technically, a semantic variation, when none was intended.
Idioms like “to get rid of” are an example. To toss out, for example, is one nuance. To kill is a nuance that could be held by Rudy only if he, himself, were familiar with that concept at that stage of language acquisiton.
Is this blog a Kaine-Hater blog? I came across it waaaay back when they wrote about a girlfriend; here it’s a boyfriend. These posts start in August 2010. Haven’t read much of it, don’t know if I’m wasting time trying to find anything helpful.
Was reading comments @OLive, and a commenter (Elphie) pointed out that a restaurant might not be such an inconspicuous place to plot a murder. I agree.
I’m going to try and be clear. Not sure why it hasn’t made sense.
I do not care if she did the yard work. That is not the relevant issue here.
What is relevant is the dishonesty behind her acts. The secrecy of hiding the landscaper. The manipulation of making her husband believe she was doing the work. And the lies to her friends regarding her husband forcing her to do work she wasn’t actually doing.
We DO have evidence that Terri was letting Kaine and her friends believe she was slaving in the yard.
Dede has stated to Blink here at this site that Terri told her(Dede) Kaine made Terri do outside work. Additionally, there were emails written by Terri and given to the media by at least one of Terri’s friends in which Terri complains about the same issue:
In the April 6 e-mail obtained by KATU News, Terri writes the following about Kaine: “I have to ask him before I go out to meet anyone. I have no money because I stayed home with Kyron at birth since his natural mom wouldn’t – spent all of my 30k to do so. …
“I am The one who was able to get him glasses (I noticed at 6 months when I was working with him but Kaine wouldn’t go in to a doc until he was 2 years – yeah – he’s farsighted 750)). He’s on me about being fat. Wants me to do another show. Makes me pay $1000 a month to him for bills although it’s my child support and unemployment. I do all the yard work, house work, mowing the lawn, cleaning the gutters.”
Kaine said during a Monday news conference that Terri is a “master of deception and misdirection. All the conversations she was having with people was the misdirection part.”
In the above we she reference doing all the yard work and neglects to mention a landscaper. She also states she cared for Kyron since birth, spending all her money to do so which is just not true.
And, lastly, we have NO evidence that Kaine actually did force Terri to do these things.
So I am focused on the facts and Terri’s own words and Terri’s activities and not innuendo with regards to the above.
@ Blink – wish to apologize. You did not check up on Anna. It was Rose (should have known she’d leave no stone, pebble, or boulder unturned). See last sentence below.
Rose says:
December 8, 2013 at 8:59 am
Hi Panda. Saw those many awards. And fair play to be sure they’re posted. I don’t mean to be negative, but Felt they must be easy to earn from their Oregon sources. What’s the competition? Kyle & WW. I fail to see anything in the Kyron stories but a cozy relationship with a bio & a lack of critical eval of his statements. So much so that early on I took the time to check that she is happily married.
@MBS wrt “OK – Blink said she went so far as to check to be sure Anna Canzano was happily married, and she is.”
No, that was, alas, me.
——————————-
@Rose – Thanks. I should have just waited but I went back to find out who said it. I think it was a good idea. It’s along the same lines as why I went looking to see if perhaps Kaine and Anna’s husband knew each other previously. I personally think Anna has done some very good work on past stories. My guess is there are very few strong mentors and wise editors left to support anyone who is talented in this business anymore, so it’s probably a lot more difficult to go from good to great even if the potential is there.
If I’m expected to see a story through the eyes of a journalist, I think I have a right to expect fair, balanced, thorough reporting.
That is a very fair statement coming from a news reporter- who is bound by the associated ethics.
B
@Woolf. The RSE depo cites a translator was present? So did Terri know the Spanish phrase for “get rid of”? But, RSE disclaimed she used that phrase. It’s Engel’s phrase. Does she speak Spanish?
—–
what sort of persona could reasonably ask a young child to help him carry something in at 9-9:15 and not merit a second thought by the teacher or adults present?
–not a Sci Fair project; they’re all up
–not a PPS contractor-laborer or professional delivery person like ups.
they’re expected to do their own jobs & not ask for help from kids.
more likely:
–purported refreshments delivery by a parent-type
–visiting teacher demonstrator arriving with an enrichment talk with equipment, like the Bonneville Power solar project teachers.
–someone associated with day care program–they were displaced from gym re before school care that day, weren’t they?
–visiting someone hired by pta for some kind of enrichment input, ie art or music
Why did mcso not have a community mtg to process school visitors that morning?
Several people could’ve cross-confirmed seeing SZ.
—
RSE depo was held a month post-objection to perpetuation noticed depi, with Respondent’s attorney also questioning at same, suggesting this was a perpetuation depo rescheduled to meet notice requirements. Much here we don’t know. So much for “the files.”
I think the Horman place was something like 7 acres and the house was older it seems reasonable to have to hire
Help with the upkeep
I don’t remember Kaine forbidding hiring help
The baby and Kyron needed care I would hire some one
Amy’s Sister says, Besides, there is no evidence Kaine left notes and demands for Terri except her word. Meanwhile there is evidence she wanted her husband to believe she did far more than she actually did then made up stories to their acquaintances to make him look bad.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Grasshopper says, How do you know this? Did her friends give interviews to media or provide emails to this effect to media? I don’t claim to remember every detail of this case, and don’t remember direct communication from T on this subject. If it came from LE, K or D, we know that they are all capable of distorting the truth for their own reasons with the intent of disinformation.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Grasshopper, I find it interesting that many some assume TH is telling the truth and DY and KY are lying or distorting everything they say about her or the marriage. How can any of us know the truth about how she and KH interacted in the marriage? How can anyone know that KH was a bad father? How can any of us claim that TH “hated” DY prior to the abduction? These are opinions, not facts. I can understand supporting TH, but to totally shut down info that might paint her in a bad light implies bias.
This whole thing is such a disheartening s*%$-storm of disfunction on all levels. I feel for all the players, but enough about them already. WTF is that little boy? Pardon my language….but I feel like my head is going to explode!
Respectfully, Amy’s Sis (not picking on you)and others who seem convinced of TMH involvement: I too felt that her behaviour was peculiar (particularly the sexts – but we still don’t know whether those are authentic)….but I have learned that everyone is different, and if fact some peeps come off as just plain weird. No one reacts the same as the next person in any given sitch. Terri basically strikes me as a little bit of an odd bird, with perhaps some underlying personality issues. I am pretty sure that some would view my obsession with this case as WAY ODD! Alot of my behaviours in fact may be considered odd by others! LOL
If there was evidence of Teri’s guilt in the MFH there would have been an indictment by now. If there was evidence of her involvement in Kyron’s disappearance, I feel as though this mystery would be well on its way to being solved. Instead EVERYONE is in CYA mode and no one seems too concerned with the safety and well-being of Baby K and the kids of Portland and beyond. MADDENING.
Blackberry bushes will cut you up. They are fierce and mean when you try to take them out. You need to be dressed for it and have the right tools, or you can end up a bloody mess. Some people try burning them. Most people where I live hire this out.
@blink
i listened to your podcast- i appreciate,d it thanks.
when i heard you say that you thought there would be leglislative changes though, i was sorrowful somewhat.
i have recently been back in the wenatchee wa area where the “Wenatchee witch hunts” happened in 95 (i believe)
In that case it went to appeals and the convictions were overturned once it was out of the local jourisdiction. it was confirmed that there was coercion and outright lying by the police. the judges were shown to be biased, cps workers were shown to be negligent, the gal was shown to have been negligent and in collusion with prosecuters judges and police to wrongfully charge people with crimes they never commited. the falsley accused (after spending a great deal of time in jail) (this included a sunday school teacher honnah simms) were completely exonherated and awarded financial settlements.
the local city has never admitted wrong doing or payed any of the falsley accused any of the settlement money, and when i spoke to various people in the community they all said they were sure that those people charged must have done the accused crimes or they wouldnt have been charged and jailed.
this is in a case where the police actually arrested people and the judges convicted them. my concern in the Kyron Horman case is that le can hide behind “we never named terri horman as a suspect or arrested her.” It shows in alluding to murder for hire and releasing some info but not charging her with it. and releasing and possibly inflaming dy emails about “Her hatred of kyron”
In wenatchee the officer that started the whole thing took stress disability leave, which gave him a nice pension, while the accused lives were destroyed and have received no compensation. i fear that the same will happen in the horman case, even more because at least the accused here were convicted, giving them a clear case to apeal. how do you fight a non-charge, how do you appeal a case where the bio dad cant remember wether the police actually told him anything or he said it himself?
In my opinion the le (even judicial) had a course in cya so they could recklessly do this without impunity. maybe houze can pull a hat out of a rabbit, i sure hope so!
Who in this family is grieving the loss of Kyron Horman? Or doing anything to find him?
The reason i said sorrowful in my last post and referenced an old similar case of le corruption is that there wwas a recent mismagement of state funds for the mentally ill in wenatchee where an audit showed misuse of over 4 million $ in funds for the medicaide recepients and the result was a legislative bailout and no repercussions whatsoever. the same judges, the same commissioners, the same crony-ism. the same reporters with the same rosy colored glasss still work here. http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2013/april/17/audit-rsn-oversight-lacked-accurate-financial/
Rose has faithfully shown that Kyron Hormans case is not the first example of crony-ism in the portland area, its been going on for years, just maybe not so high profile. the community in kyrons area shows the same response, we dont care if their is national coverage showing corruption, we believe whatever we are told locally. “We know she is guilty even if there is no evidense”
I just dont get it
Something i just cannot let go of is the harry oaks search dogs hitting a scent by hormans houuse. i wondered when it happened but now am almost certain because of dede spichers account of how le has treated her that there is something to the statements harry made about how the local police will not let anyone search except their own boys. why is that?
Dont be, it did not happen, and that is not how cadaver K9′s alert in the first place.
B
Sam, being from WA I remember the Wenatchee-Witch-Hunt case, thank you for referencing it to the Kyron case. I wonder if LE’s reasons for not wanting to be deposed is as they say: it will interfere with their exhaustive investigation, or is it because their tactics (lies that kept a child from her mother for years) will be exposed.. It’s sad that those who were exonerated in the Wenatchee case remained guilty in the minds of the locals. With out a doubt, if Terri is exonerated, the same will happen with her.
A very cruel new Facebook board has been started called Goodbye Kitty, with the community being “Goodbye Kitty! Have a puuurrrfect life! ” It claims to have been founded on June 4, 2010. I don’t see how that is possible but maybe a page owner can choose what date to say it was founded.
Thank you GH- I am aware and I am not posting that link here. Yes, you can pick the born or founded date. This is who I was referring to the other day when I said there are some sick people out there.
In my response to GH above, I meant to ask “How can any of us know if DY hated TH before the abduction?” What evidence or what facts do we have of any hatred prior to the abduction? If I recall correctly, DY said that TH emailed her almost every day, and they also talked on the phone a lot. Very early on in the investigation, DY even said she thought TH was giving Kyron what he “needed” but added that she didn’t think TH could replace her.
Here’s a LOL, Grass, an Anti page (not TH) had a comment directed to her hater peers from a person whose initials are SM complaining that “her” Anti Terri FB page had been closed, & someone (not her) set up a new one with the same name, but it was not her. She felt it was very ungrateful unbehavior after she’d “worked her butt off” on that page for over 3 years. Today a whotalking Terri Horman search revealed a re-FB shout out from an Athena of this person SM announcing in caps the name of her new Anti Terri FB page with the initials SM in the title (now identifying it as hers in the title). I thought SM in the title was appropriate. These moles not only procreate hate pages, they spawn!
The hater craters runneth over. LOL LOL.. worked her but off at the cauldron. Wow, seems she should be happy for the break from manic.
B
GraceintheHills says, If I recall correctly, DY said that TH emailed her almost every day, and they also talked on the phone a lot. Very early on in the investigation, DY even said she thought TH was giving Kyron what he “needed” but added that she didn’t think TH could replace her.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I personally don’t find anything D says about T credible
Well I dont think I would consider her objective.
B
They continue to stalk T in Roseburg. This appeared on the Roseburg Supports Kyron Horman page. It appears to have now been taken down and this is from the cache.
@Grace… I recall when Desiree was asked how they got along, she said haltingly something like they cooperated for the sake of Kyron. I do not recall her saying anything positive. The way Terri schlepped her son South & back, Desiree should’ve had abject gratitude at least she never had to drive to Portland, roundtrip, for pickup & return. Would’ve inconvenienced her job. Tho she had 2 sisters who could’ve helped it seems.
just a reminder of weaknesses of whotalking.com Facebook. It’s not flexible like google. You have to use word starter caps or not as the facebook poster does, ditto for spacing. So, for example, pinkspiritgirl, a particularly prolific writer and photo poster (ie of Kaine & Kyron) would have to be no caps, no spaces.
Stalkers, Grass? I didn’t know this page was still up. That Corey is uncivil, apparently lives for thrills.
Cd asked about KH & a certain PD. Imo behaviorally as conveyed in public documents this lay person’s opinionis KH fits the profile of a couple (his job & housing stability are weaknesses wrt Borderline), but the other bio’s cauldron is the one that seems in my opinion a Borderline’s system. Both bios could stop all this pronto by removing permission for use of their photos & minor childrens’ images & ceasing all contact with same. As we have seen with J Arias, a PD feeds on attention & rage.
For some reason I can’t get the podcast to work. I tried all morning. Oh well.
You have the right link? Check your default player? Sound on?
Don’t chuck anything, lol, I do not that now and again
B
I do, it starts and then quits. IDK, checked my FF QT plug-in, all seems well. I do have some ad sites blocked with my host file, so maybe that’s causing it, though I had no problem listening the last time. Who knows?
The problem with DY’s vigilantism in Roseburg, and proactively associating herself with hate page leadership in an interlinking online network, is IF Kyron should be found, she hasn’t a prayer to increase custody time, and she’d probably be subjected to supervised visits if Kaine so requested. And a psychological.
@Rose, jealousy in the hater crater–oh no! what next! when you’ve worked your b— off spewing hate in every possible way, you don’t expect said hate to be stolen right and someone else take credit. the world is surely going to hell in a hand basket.
for what it’s worth, I’ve heard that the person running the “fake” site is an individual who is not a hater but delights in tormenting the haters. a specialist in irony IMO, and fearless
@TRuth. Well, if we were in to outing moles, and we’re not
(waste of time in case, & in life), That is the best FB title
I can imagine for cauldron sniffers.
@Blink
don’t know if you want this link posted, if not delete.
new anti terri page up and running. adds the initials SM to distinguish it from closed one!
https://www.facebook.com/therealATHP
Rose says:
December 10, 2013 at 6:24 pm
Curious why you mention Anna Song Canzano growing up in Ptld’s Hispanic community? She is Asian, born in Taiwan–grew up in Ptld. Not sure of Parkrose’s Hispanic percentage. Her reporting on the missing/murdered Oregon City Girls, Miranda Gaddis and Ashley Pond, and her reporting/interviewing the murdering slime Ward Weaver was what brought her accolades. The O’s golden sports dude was another prize.
JC interviewing KH—that was a little strange. But that’s my opinion.
And Rose—I have a feeling you are right about TMH’s turning in the drug supplier has some deep roots in this mystery.
erose says:
December 9, 2013 at 10:22 pm
After reading the request for the emergency hearing, it all comes down to that last meeting between TH and RSE which I assume was in May, where she called the cops, and now he is advised by his lawyers not to answer any questions wrt that 15 minute meeting. What can’t RSE disclose about that meeting? It’s obviously not something that makes TH look bad.
grasshopper says:
December 9, 2013 at 5:01 pm
link now up on max’s article
BunchofHouzes response
http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/Emergency%20Hearing%20Motion.pdf
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Blink says, “I believe the meeting in reference is the sting, erose.”
B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Me: I’ve heard that the meeting they are referencing is not the sting, but a meeting in which TH allegedly told RS she had decided to work on her marriage (as opposed to ridding herself of KH). This could be a rumor that is floating around, idk, but TH’s lawyers appear to be very interested in having the content of both meetings placed in the record, and have said if content of second meeting is not allowed, then all of RS’s testimony should be disallowed/stricken.
@grasshopper, He’d probably never answer this, but I’d ask him where he thinks the straight line to Kyron is.
Amys Sister says:
December 10, 2013 at 7:24 pm
grasshopper says:
December 10, 2013 at 6:06 pm
____
You must have missed the part you snipped from my post.
“…are you telling your husband that you are doing the work? And telling your friends that your husband is making you do it? Do your friends believe you clean gutters, clear blackberry bushes and drive a John Deere meanwhile, you’re not?”
Grasshopper, I won’t accuse you of projecting onto Kaine, Desiree, and LE and you don’t accuse me of doing same to Terri, K?
Her actions speak for themselves. Let’s not forget she was talking before July 2010 and her friends shared what she wrote in emails and what she had to say… Dede Schneider as one example.
==================================================================
What actions? I ask this of everyone on this blog thread.
What actions?
We have not heard TMH speak, and information has been floated out by people who know her that she was told NOT to speak.
We have not watched her address a crowd of reporters. She can’t do that.
She DID speak to LE, a lot, when Kyron was first missing. Recklessly, if what DDS says is very accurate. DDS suggests that TMH was not even considering, for some time, that LE was going to treat her as a suspect.
We have not watched her in her home, or around her children.
We have NOT seen “actions” in any form of any substance on the part of TH.
The only thing I have seen is her walking from the gym with KH to their car. HE WAS AT THE GYM but people ganged up only on her about going to the gym.
Why?
Can someone explain these attacks on TMH for doing something that her own husband, walking right next to her, is also doing?
But I digress.
What actions? There is nothing I have seen of TMH that screams oddball or menace to me. Nothing. I watched her in the parking garage avoid the reporter when she was walking there with a woman from her lawyer’s office. I would not speak to a report either, in her shoes. Nothing hinky to me in that situation.
I do not think hiring a lawyer proves guilt or something to hide. Never have.
I do not think remaining silent is hiding something. Never have.
I do not think a still-angry ex-wife and the estranged husband and the stepfather are impartial, objective sources for everything that TMH did when she pooped on the potty or dusted the house plants.
Honestly and sincerely…what actions?
Sexting with Cook for me is my answer as something as an analyst gave me pause, and does, to this day. I do not form any criminal inferences from it, but even if it was her thumbing her nose at Kaine, it was odd and I found it disassociative of her situation. To your point, I have never felt her not speaking publicly can be used against her as a personality assessment and I think for those doing that they need to realize it is not objective.
The issue is not perfection- it is this woman has never been charged with anything, and now we see why. I am not understanding how she is not getting increased benefit of the doubt.
For anyone interested in hearing tonights interview with Dana, my portion, here is the link
http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/audio/20131210sBlink.mp3
B
@Blink
I learned long ago, if you want something done, do it yourself. (If you can, of course, or at least *think* you can.) That outlook sometimes does pose a threat to the self-perceived manly-hood of some men. That is not what I think of when I look to my man. (Dipped my own tools pink once, so that husband would not claim they were his, when he couldn’t find his own.) I have pretty much done it all. gutters, lawns, pruning and painting form ladders, chicken coops, bit of building, bit of roofing, laying brick, doesn’t matter, even some plumbing and electrical. Butttttt….I did these things because I wanted to. Big difference than if some demanding spouse was saying go fix such and such and oh, by the way, while I’m out of town, would you make sure these gets cleaned or that gets done. Big, big difference. Kudos to all you ladies who have the gumption to try to fix things yourself whenever it’s necessitated.
At the same time, I have zero problem saying how much I appreciate my man, my husband, my very best friend.
Agreed. In my over 100 hundred interviews about or in reference to this case I have to be honest about one common thread. If the conversation drifted to the Kaine dynamic with me seeking confirmation on this whole when Kaine went away there would be no play and hell to pay ( my words) it was very consistent in the affirmative. However, that was TMH choice.
I dunno about you or most, but in my imperfect life with my imperfect spouse and imperfect children part of the family journey is to suck it up on occasion ( not referring to abusive relationships), maybe for her this was that. Do I agree with it, would it work in my home? Hell No, but it could be a non-issue for some.
B
Blink, You and your team’s stats as reported on the show are impressive, 6 for 6. Your prognosis for this case is disheartening to say the least.
Thank you but I have to mention the unsolved outweighs that rate, unfortunately. I wish I had a better outlook for Kyron and this case.
It just geeks “Greeker” by the day.
B
T. Ruth says:
December 10, 2013 at 5:59 pm
I’ve asked this before, I know, but does anyone know if Tony Young would be considered as LE in the judge’s ruling about not being able to ask Mr. Horman anything that came from LE in his deposition? Would that include Officer Young or would Officer Young be considered part of the family, just Kyron’s step dad in the eyes of the judge?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi T.Ruth, the judge is referencing LE that are part of the criminal investigation. Det. Tony Young is the victim’s stepfather, and is considered part of the victim’s family.
@TRuth. wrt “Why is Houze so adamant in Kaine’s deposition about Kaine somehow having information about Terri that would put her in a negative light **prior** to Kyron going missing?” Because that’s absolutely untainted by LE.
So he’s free to opine on anything negative. & Houze knows he can’t come up with anything. And he doesn’t.
—
great show Blink. Saving you (or Harper) my best soup bones in future.
Thank you kindly rose- just no minties please. She hides them in her bed or under rugs, LOL.
B
@Grass. I’d make it broad & openended,
allowing him to get across whatever he
deems most relevant & pithy.
That seduces an answer.
—@Kat. TY so much for correcting me.
I should have reviewed before comment.
I recalled her growing up there able to go away to
college on scholarship & even noted she was Asian
like the OLive Brown reporter who’s so good on Ed
(and my daughter, so you’d think I’d remember).
All this RSE stuff put Beejay & her preoccupation with
Hispanic community opinion, & knowledge, being important.
I feel we are overlooking that source of info, as mcso has.
I feel if Canzano’s husband made those public statements
they should recuse themselves from covering & just simply
privately volunteer.
Amys Sister says:
December 10, 2013 at 5:26 pm
It does burn me up a little that they could have had a great life! He earned enough money to support the fam. Terri was trained in working with children. A nice home in a great community. What appear to be three awesome kids.
I know people aren’t perfect and life is messy. We all live it. I just wish these two could have found happiness inside themselves.
————
Suzie Q- I edited your comment to AS. Respectfully, I know you to be capable of a better and gentler way to get that opinion across, or if not, to scroll and roll
B
Amy’s Sister says, Besides, there is no evidence Kaine left notes and demands for Terri except her word. Meanwhile there is evidence she wanted her husband to believe she did far more than she actually did then made up stories to their acquaintances to make him look bad.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How do you know this? Did her friends give interviews to media or provide emails to this effect to media? I don’t claim to remember every detail of this case, and don’t remember direct communication from T on this subject. If it came from LE, K or D, we know that they are all capable of distorting the truth for their own reasons with the intent of disinformation. What is disinformation? According to wikipedia “disinformation is intentionally false or inaccurate information that is spread deliberately. It is an act of deception and false statements to convince someone of untruth. Disinformation should not be confused with misinformation, information that is unintentionally false. Unlike traditional propaganda techniques designed to engage emotional support, disinformation is designed to manipulate the audience at the rational level by either discrediting conflicting information or supporting false conclusions. A common disinformation tactic is to mix some truth and observation with false conclusions and lies, or to reveal part of the truth while presenting it as the whole.”
There is a lot of disinformation going on in this case. Anything provided by LE, K or D is suspect since their agenda is to destroy T’s credibility and convince everyone she is guilty of various things.
While we have LE, K and D’s behavior and words on which to base interpretation and opinion, we have very little info on T’s activities and words. K and D’s description of her words and activities don’t count.
Would like to second Nelmel’s post too.
A bit off topic, but if this were a movie, who would play Engel? What actor is capable of portraying such utter cluelessness?
Ron Burgundy
B
Just an idea. It works away from my suspicions about KH, but I was always entertaining anybody else’s ideas about this case as well as my own.
Abusive men — whether ‘hitters’ or emotional manipulators or both, the type who are abusive solely toward the woman in their home — will often show an extraordinarily high level of respect to other men who are in positions of authority. This could explain why KH might have simply been bowled over by the cops from the get go, and believed absolutely everything they said about ANYTHING.
from today’s puzzle: “if at first the idea is not absurd, it is not a good one” Einstein
what steroids, affairs, & drinking can do in what “should” have been a nice family. Imo steroids probably
placed the wife & children in greatest danger, with a gun in the house.
Doubt any of us have firsthand experience with this. Terri may have. Unless I lived there, I don’t know.
Note he fooled his co-pastor & congregation both.
“. In her petition, Rhonda said steroids were found by family members in his closet, along with pills, needles, vials of liquid and flasks of alcohol.”
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-12-05/news/os-isaac-hunter-john-parker-20121205_1_associate-pastor-church-staff-member-john-parker
wowee! does this ever sound familiar. be sure to watch the video. deja vu
http://www.krdo.com/news/family-of-missing-child-sued-for-defamation-of-character/-/417220/23277758/-/4hfv6t/-/index.html
OK…let’s put our thinkin’-noggins on….
1. Olive SW hills/SI resident says that given the seclusion of Sheltered Lane, why would LS Rudy go to a restaurant to present this “plan”?
I’ve been there….long driveway, secluded plot.
2. Lost in translation issue:
“She told me specifically. I don’t remember, but she told me that she wanted me to help her get rid of her husband. I don’t know if that was the correct word, but she tried to make me understand that,” Sanchez said, according to court records.
When Sanchez was asked if he remembered Terri Horman using the words “get rid of,” he replied, “No, but she implied it, not specifically.”
So, when you factor in the translator (see depo) and the passage of time (nearly 4 years since the original communications) how many times removed from the actual words are we?
Words are important. Idioms are important to understand. Listen to Rudy. Did the translator have to tell him what “get rid of” means.
If, after 4 years, Rudy still needs a translator, imagine his english-speaking proficiency at the time of the MFH meeting?
Rudy had his lawyer there. Yes, it is protocol to have a translator, but the thing about translation is that the translator themselves can, unknowingly, create a “meaning” or, technically, a semantic variation, when none was intended.
Idioms like “to get rid of” are an example. To toss out, for example, is one nuance. To kill is a nuance that could be held by Rudy only if he, himself, were familiar with that concept at that stage of language acquisiton.
http://alternate-theories.blogspot.com/2010/08/my-alternate-theory-about-kyron-horman.html
Is this blog a Kaine-Hater blog? I came across it waaaay back when they wrote about a girlfriend; here it’s a boyfriend. These posts start in August 2010. Haven’t read much of it, don’t know if I’m wasting time trying to find anything helpful.
Was reading comments @OLive, and a commenter (Elphie) pointed out that a restaurant might not be such an inconspicuous place to plot a murder. I agree.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/12/kaine_horman_says_estranged_wi.html
@ Blink: ‘on scene investigation work in front of the camera’ would be way cool. Look forward to it.
grasshopper says:
December 11, 2013 at 1:39 am
___
I’m going to try and be clear. Not sure why it hasn’t made sense.
I do not care if she did the yard work. That is not the relevant issue here.
What is relevant is the dishonesty behind her acts. The secrecy of hiding the landscaper. The manipulation of making her husband believe she was doing the work. And the lies to her friends regarding her husband forcing her to do work she wasn’t actually doing.
We DO have evidence that Terri was letting Kaine and her friends believe she was slaving in the yard.
Dede has stated to Blink here at this site that Terri told her(Dede) Kaine made Terri do outside work. Additionally, there were emails written by Terri and given to the media by at least one of Terri’s friends in which Terri complains about the same issue:
In the April 6 e-mail obtained by KATU News, Terri writes the following about Kaine: “I have to ask him before I go out to meet anyone. I have no money because I stayed home with Kyron at birth since his natural mom wouldn’t – spent all of my 30k to do so. …
“I am The one who was able to get him glasses (I noticed at 6 months when I was working with him but Kaine wouldn’t go in to a doc until he was 2 years – yeah – he’s farsighted 750)). He’s on me about being fat. Wants me to do another show. Makes me pay $1000 a month to him for bills although it’s my child support and unemployment. I do all the yard work, house work, mowing the lawn, cleaning the gutters.”
Kaine said during a Monday news conference that Terri is a “master of deception and misdirection. All the conversations she was having with people was the misdirection part.”
In the above we she reference doing all the yard work and neglects to mention a landscaper. She also states she cared for Kyron since birth, spending all her money to do so which is just not true.
And, lastly, we have NO evidence that Kaine actually did force Terri to do these things.
So I am focused on the facts and Terri’s own words and Terri’s activities and not innuendo with regards to the above.
Dang. Let’s just be done with it now.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/108352154.html
Link to above referenced article.
@ Blink – wish to apologize. You did not check up on Anna. It was Rose (should have known she’d leave no stone, pebble, or boulder unturned). See last sentence below.
Rose says:
December 8, 2013 at 8:59 am
Hi Panda. Saw those many awards. And fair play to be sure they’re posted. I don’t mean to be negative, but Felt they must be easy to earn from their Oregon sources. What’s the competition? Kyle & WW. I fail to see anything in the Kyron stories but a cozy relationship with a bio & a lack of critical eval of his statements. So much so that early on I took the time to check that she is happily married.
Rose says:
December 10, 2013 at 8:02 pm
@MBS wrt “OK – Blink said she went so far as to check to be sure Anna Canzano was happily married, and she is.”
No, that was, alas, me.
——————————-
@Rose – Thanks. I should have just waited but I went back to find out who said it. I think it was a good idea. It’s along the same lines as why I went looking to see if perhaps Kaine and Anna’s husband knew each other previously. I personally think Anna has done some very good work on past stories. My guess is there are very few strong mentors and wise editors left to support anyone who is talented in this business anymore, so it’s probably a lot more difficult to go from good to great even if the potential is there.
If I’m expected to see a story through the eyes of a journalist, I think I have a right to expect fair, balanced, thorough reporting.
That is a very fair statement coming from a news reporter- who is bound by the associated ethics.
B
@Blink I enjoyed your program it is so nice to be retired and can really listen instead of catching it on the run
I like your laugh
Thank you kind lady- I am thrilled for you that you are retired and can enjoy it.
xoxo
B
@Woolf. The RSE depo cites a translator was present? So did Terri know the Spanish phrase for “get rid of”? But, RSE disclaimed she used that phrase. It’s Engel’s phrase. Does she speak Spanish?
—–
what sort of persona could reasonably ask a young child to help him carry something in at 9-9:15 and not merit a second thought by the teacher or adults present?
–not a Sci Fair project; they’re all up
–not a PPS contractor-laborer or professional delivery person like ups.
they’re expected to do their own jobs & not ask for help from kids.
more likely:
–purported refreshments delivery by a parent-type
–visiting teacher demonstrator arriving with an enrichment talk with equipment, like the Bonneville Power solar project teachers.
–someone associated with day care program–they were displaced from gym re before school care that day, weren’t they?
–visiting someone hired by pta for some kind of enrichment input, ie art or music
Why did mcso not have a community mtg to process school visitors that morning?
Several people could’ve cross-confirmed seeing SZ.
—
RSE depo was held a month post-objection to perpetuation noticed depi, with Respondent’s attorney also questioning at same, suggesting this was a perpetuation depo rescheduled to meet notice requirements. Much here we don’t know. So much for “the files.”
I think the Horman place was something like 7 acres and the house was older it seems reasonable to have to hire
Help with the upkeep
I don’t remember Kaine forbidding hiring help
The baby and Kyron needed care I would hire some one
grasshopper says:
December 11, 2013 at 1:39 am
Amy’s Sister says, Besides, there is no evidence Kaine left notes and demands for Terri except her word. Meanwhile there is evidence she wanted her husband to believe she did far more than she actually did then made up stories to their acquaintances to make him look bad.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Grasshopper says, How do you know this? Did her friends give interviews to media or provide emails to this effect to media? I don’t claim to remember every detail of this case, and don’t remember direct communication from T on this subject. If it came from LE, K or D, we know that they are all capable of distorting the truth for their own reasons with the intent of disinformation.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Grasshopper, I find it interesting that many some assume TH is telling the truth and DY and KY are lying or distorting everything they say about her or the marriage. How can any of us know the truth about how she and KH interacted in the marriage? How can anyone know that KH was a bad father? How can any of us claim that TH “hated” DY prior to the abduction? These are opinions, not facts. I can understand supporting TH, but to totally shut down info that might paint her in a bad light implies bias.
JMO, and offered with respect.
This whole thing is such a disheartening s*%$-storm of disfunction on all levels. I feel for all the players, but enough about them already. WTF is that little boy? Pardon my language….but I feel like my head is going to explode!
Respectfully, Amy’s Sis (not picking on you)and others who seem convinced of TMH involvement: I too felt that her behaviour was peculiar (particularly the sexts – but we still don’t know whether those are authentic)….but I have learned that everyone is different, and if fact some peeps come off as just plain weird. No one reacts the same as the next person in any given sitch. Terri basically strikes me as a little bit of an odd bird, with perhaps some underlying personality issues. I am pretty sure that some would view my obsession with this case as WAY ODD! Alot of my behaviours in fact may be considered odd by others! LOL
If there was evidence of Teri’s guilt in the MFH there would have been an indictment by now. If there was evidence of her involvement in Kyron’s disappearance, I feel as though this mystery would be well on its way to being solved. Instead EVERYONE is in CYA mode and no one seems too concerned with the safety and well-being of Baby K and the kids of Portland and beyond. MADDENING.
IMO, and all that.
“Overtime has increased 16 percent over the last four years. ”
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/12/multnomah_county_sheriffs_depa.html#incart_river
Blackberry bushes will cut you up. They are fierce and mean when you try to take them out. You need to be dressed for it and have the right tools, or you can end up a bloody mess. Some people try burning them. Most people where I live hire this out.
@blink
i listened to your podcast- i appreciate,d it thanks.
when i heard you say that you thought there would be leglislative changes though, i was sorrowful somewhat.
i have recently been back in the wenatchee wa area where the “Wenatchee witch hunts” happened in 95 (i believe)
In that case it went to appeals and the convictions were overturned once it was out of the local jourisdiction. it was confirmed that there was coercion and outright lying by the police. the judges were shown to be biased, cps workers were shown to be negligent, the gal was shown to have been negligent and in collusion with prosecuters judges and police to wrongfully charge people with crimes they never commited. the falsley accused (after spending a great deal of time in jail) (this included a sunday school teacher honnah simms) were completely exonherated and awarded financial settlements.
the local city has never admitted wrong doing or payed any of the falsley accused any of the settlement money, and when i spoke to various people in the community they all said they were sure that those people charged must have done the accused crimes or they wouldnt have been charged and jailed.
this is in a case where the police actually arrested people and the judges convicted them. my concern in the Kyron Horman case is that le can hide behind “we never named terri horman as a suspect or arrested her.” It shows in alluding to murder for hire and releasing some info but not charging her with it. and releasing and possibly inflaming dy emails about “Her hatred of kyron”
In wenatchee the officer that started the whole thing took stress disability leave, which gave him a nice pension, while the accused lives were destroyed and have received no compensation. i fear that the same will happen in the horman case, even more because at least the accused here were convicted, giving them a clear case to apeal. how do you fight a non-charge, how do you appeal a case where the bio dad cant remember wether the police actually told him anything or he said it himself?
In my opinion the le (even judicial) had a course in cya so they could recklessly do this without impunity. maybe houze can pull a hat out of a rabbit, i sure hope so!
Who in this family is grieving the loss of Kyron Horman? Or doing anything to find him?
The reason i said sorrowful in my last post and referenced an old similar case of le corruption is that there wwas a recent mismagement of state funds for the mentally ill in wenatchee where an audit showed misuse of over 4 million $ in funds for the medicaide recepients and the result was a legislative bailout and no repercussions whatsoever. the same judges, the same commissioners, the same crony-ism. the same reporters with the same rosy colored glasss still work here. http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2013/april/17/audit-rsn-oversight-lacked-accurate-financial/
Rose has faithfully shown that Kyron Hormans case is not the first example of crony-ism in the portland area, its been going on for years, just maybe not so high profile. the community in kyrons area shows the same response, we dont care if their is national coverage showing corruption, we believe whatever we are told locally. “We know she is guilty even if there is no evidense”
I just dont get it
Something i just cannot let go of is the harry oaks search dogs hitting a scent by hormans houuse. i wondered when it happened but now am almost certain because of dede spichers account of how le has treated her that there is something to the statements harry made about how the local police will not let anyone search except their own boys. why is that?
Dont be, it did not happen, and that is not how cadaver K9′s alert in the first place.
B
sam h says: December 11, 2013 at 1:15 pm
Sam, being from WA I remember the Wenatchee-Witch-Hunt case, thank you for referencing it to the Kyron case. I wonder if LE’s reasons for not wanting to be deposed is as they say: it will interfere with their exhaustive investigation, or is it because their tactics (lies that kept a child from her mother for years) will be exposed.. It’s sad that those who were exonerated in the Wenatchee case remained guilty in the minds of the locals. With out a doubt, if Terri is exonerated, the same will happen with her.
A very cruel new Facebook board has been started called Goodbye Kitty, with the community being “Goodbye Kitty! Have a puuurrrfect life! ” It claims to have been founded on June 4, 2010. I don’t see how that is possible but maybe a page owner can choose what date to say it was founded.
Thank you GH- I am aware and I am not posting that link here. Yes, you can pick the born or founded date. This is who I was referring to the other day when I said there are some sick people out there.
B
In my response to GH above, I meant to ask “How can any of us know if DY hated TH before the abduction?” What evidence or what facts do we have of any hatred prior to the abduction? If I recall correctly, DY said that TH emailed her almost every day, and they also talked on the phone a lot. Very early on in the investigation, DY even said she thought TH was giving Kyron what he “needed” but added that she didn’t think TH could replace her.
For some reason I can’t get the podcast to work. I tried all morning. Oh well.
You have the right link? Check your default player? Sound on?
Don’t chuck anything, lol, I do not that now and again
B
Here’s a LOL, Grass, an Anti page (not TH) had a comment directed to her hater peers from a person whose initials are SM complaining that “her” Anti Terri FB page had been closed, & someone (not her) set up a new one with the same name, but it was not her. She felt it was very ungrateful unbehavior after she’d “worked her butt off” on that page for over 3 years. Today a whotalking Terri Horman search revealed a re-FB shout out from an Athena of this person SM announcing in caps the name of her new Anti Terri FB page with the initials SM in the title (now identifying it as hers in the title). I thought SM in the title was appropriate. These moles not only procreate hate pages, they spawn!
The hater craters runneth over. LOL LOL.. worked her but off at the cauldron. Wow, seems she should be happy for the break from manic.
B
GraceintheHills says, If I recall correctly, DY said that TH emailed her almost every day, and they also talked on the phone a lot. Very early on in the investigation, DY even said she thought TH was giving Kyron what he “needed” but added that she didn’t think TH could replace her.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I personally don’t find anything D says about T credible
Well I dont think I would consider her objective.
B
They continue to stalk T in Roseburg. This appeared on the Roseburg Supports Kyron Horman page. It appears to have now been taken down and this is from the cache.
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/originals/cc/cc/51/cccc5192433a45772be924d4bc066a5b.jpg
It will only take one arrest or civil complaint to end this, imo.
B
@Grace… I recall when Desiree was asked how they got along, she said haltingly something like they cooperated for the sake of Kyron. I do not recall her saying anything positive. The way Terri schlepped her son South & back, Desiree should’ve had abject gratitude at least she never had to drive to Portland, roundtrip, for pickup & return. Would’ve inconvenienced her job. Tho she had 2 sisters who could’ve helped it seems.
just a reminder of weaknesses of whotalking.com Facebook. It’s not flexible like google. You have to use word starter caps or not as the facebook poster does, ditto for spacing. So, for example, pinkspiritgirl, a particularly prolific writer and photo poster (ie of Kaine & Kyron) would have to be no caps, no spaces.
Stalkers, Grass? I didn’t know this page was still up. That Corey is uncivil, apparently lives for thrills.
Cd asked about KH & a certain PD. Imo behaviorally as conveyed in public documents this lay person’s opinionis KH fits the profile of a couple (his job & housing stability are weaknesses wrt Borderline), but the other bio’s cauldron is the one that seems in my opinion a Borderline’s system. Both bios could stop all this pronto by removing permission for use of their photos & minor childrens’ images & ceasing all contact with same. As we have seen with J Arias, a PD feeds on attention & rage.
T. Ruth says:
December 11, 2013 at 4:51 pm
For some reason I can’t get the podcast to work. I tried all morning. Oh well.
You have the right link? Check your default player? Sound on?
Don’t chuck anything, lol, I do not that now and again
B
I do, it starts and then quits. IDK, checked my FF QT plug-in, all seems well. I do have some ad sites blocked with my host file, so maybe that’s causing it, though I had no problem listening the last time. Who knows?
Tell me if this works please:
http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/2013/12/10/the-dana-pretzer-show-tuesday-december-10-2013-with-diane-dimond-and-blink-from-blink-on-crime/
B
LOL, Rose
Spawning Moles Spewing Mayhem
The problem with DY’s vigilantism in Roseburg, and proactively associating herself with hate page leadership in an interlinking online network, is IF Kyron should be found, she hasn’t a prayer to increase custody time, and she’d probably be subjected to supervised visits if Kaine so requested. And a psychological.
@Rose, jealousy in the hater crater–oh no! what next! when you’ve worked your b— off spewing hate in every possible way, you don’t expect said hate to be stolen right and someone else take credit. the world is surely going to hell in a hand basket.
for what it’s worth, I’ve heard that the person running the “fake” site is an individual who is not a hater but delights in tormenting the haters. a specialist in irony IMO, and fearless
@TRuth. Well, if we were in to outing moles, and we’re not
(waste of time in case, & in life), That is the best FB title
I can imagine for cauldron sniffers.