Blink On Crime Kyron Horman Investigation Exclusive: DeDe Spicher Interview Yields Allegations Of Illegal Steroid Use Terri Horman Took To Police

A Blink On Crime Exclusive: DeDe Spicher speaks for the first time about her ordeal in the Kyron Horman investigation- continued  ©

S. Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief- Blink On Crime

DeDe Spicher and Terri Moulton Horman

 

In the first part of blinkoncrime.com’s exclusive interview with DeDe Spicher,  she revealed that after over 3 years of attempting to provide Multnomah County Sheriffs Office as well as Assistant Deputy Attorney Norm Frink with the necessary information they requested to clear her from any suspicion in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Skyline second grader Kyron Horman; she has finally been cleared after passing a polygraph as part of her requirement under an immunity deal that has been sealed with the court.  Unofficially cleared, that is.

Spicher and her attorney Chad Stavley,  who have since refused all local media requests,  would very much like the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office and current District Attorney Rod Underhill to clear her officially and publicly.

Spicher is adamant that law enforcement never had any reason to question her statements to them from the beginning, has cooperated fully for over three years and recently testified before the grand jury to prove she had nothing to hide.  While she would like the public to know that any assertions to the contrary are untrue, and sometimes have been offered maliciously,  her desire to speak out about her experience over the last three years is primarily to force investigative resources to review it’s progress- and hopefully adjust in a way to further leads in Kyron’s case.

As was proven not only by her recent polygraph,  but also by the verification that no evidence ever existed to support investigator’s theory in the first place,  Spicher had no information about anyone’s potential involvement in Kyron’s disappearance, let alone her own.

The continuation of our interview, which provoked some very interesting revelations long felt to be a possibility by many, was confirmed by Ms. Spicher  as she says- told to her by Terri Moulton Horman are prompting new possible theories in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Kyron Horman.  Two days after Kyron Horman’s eleventh birthday.

Stoy: So, in your estimation then,  why do you think that detectives Herron and Kravfe were so sure that you were involved or knew who was.

Spicher:  I have thought about this a lot, and I think there were a few reasons.  I think because I was advised through a meeting Terri had with a family friend and attorney that she should assume that all of her communication was being monitored by law enforcement and anyone she had contact with.  He told her to assume the house was bugged as well as vehicles, etc.  I also believe you did an article a while back that pointed out her phone was in Kaine’s name.   As this was a day or two after she was served with the restraining order,  she was also told that

Stoy (interrupting): You bought a prepaid phone after June 28th and never had one before that?  I had read that you or someone else purchased them the day of or the day after Kyron’s disappearance.

Spicher: No.  I purchased one prepaid phone, after Terri shared the info from her meeting, in my own name, either June 29th or 30th.    I think they were hung up on the fact that I came to her aid with no contact for so long so they just were convinced there had to be.

Stoy: ok, sorry, continue.  So you are not saying that LE was suggesting that you were hiding some other number you had and that was how they were alleging that you HAD to have been in contact with Terri or some other person prior to and on June 4th and that escalated your “poi” status in your opinion?

Spicher:  They did not say that to me specifically, but what they repeated over and over again, was that Terri and I had to have had some form of communication we were hiding.  It never made any sense to me because I knew I only had my cell that I had forever until the end of June,  and I knew I had not been in contact with Terri since her 40th birthday party in March.  So I would ask- well then I guess that means that you don’t have any contacts you can’t verify from either of us so why am I even in this “interview”?

To my recollection they never shared with me or answered any of my questions in response when something they kept hounding me about seemed absurd and conflicting with their theory.

Stoy: Which was?

Spicher: At first,  I think that they really believed I was involved,  and at some point I think they were talking more “accessory after the fact” because I got the impression ( although they did not share it with me) that Terri’s cell phone activity that day was nowhere near where I was,  and my vehicle never left, nor did I.  They would not verify that they located the ceramics/glassware artist [pottery artisan] I told you about and still have not.

Stoy: So in your opinion, you were clearly the linchpin of this case,  they [LE] believed you held the key to solving it and/or implicating Terri exclusively at that point, they no longer entertained your involvement per se?

Spicher: I honestly don’t think I could say that I ever believed that they stopped treating me as some sort of suspect.  I never felt that way,  but yes, absolutely they 100% believe that Terri is responsible and I definitely believed we all had to be interviewed and scrutinized or whatever,  but I really thought up until the meeting with Norm Frink that they [LE] would abandon that theory quickly because if they were positive I was the key, and I knew I was not, that would also eliminate Terri, who I did not and do not believe, but have no proof, was involved or knew anything.

Stoy: Right, so if you had nothing, and they felt you were the only nexus, it had to mean that they had no independent evidence of anything or anyone else so they would start in another direction?

Spicher: Right, but every interaction I had with them following and including the request to participate in the sting against her, made me believe they never did.  To get back to the why question you asked me- my final thought on that is that they kept pointing out that I was the person to tell everyone not to speak to them without attorneys in the beginning.    I would ask like who do you mean,  because that would have been my opinion across the board for any situation, but it was definitely based on what was getting out about how they were going about this.  I was scared and it turned out it was good reason.   I also would point out to them that I did not think that was or should be the basis for suspicion because if it was, it seemed to me that I was told that several staff members at Skyline had hired counsel, and Kaine was the FIRST to have one between he and Terri and I had told her at least a week or so before that she should.

Stoy: Why do you think she did not immediately take your friendly advice?  Your Dad was LE, and I presume she knew that.  People can say what they want, but I know many members of law enforcement in different jurisdictions and agencies.  I have worked with them or contributed analysis to cases with them privately [I cannot and would not ever include that in anything I choose to write on] and I can tell you that I do not know one of them that if they were the focus of a criminal probe or internal investigation they absolutely do not agree to an interview without a representative.  In fact,  Herron is or was the President of Mulnomah County Police Union or was, if I recall correctly.  So to that end, I find that a pretty hypocritical reason for suspicion of anyone.

Spicher: (laughs) Interesting.  I am not sure that I knew that. The reason Terri didn’t get an atty before the RO was because she was told by LE that if she did, she wouldn’t be privvy to any of their investigative discoveries, she would be out of the loop in finding Kyron.

Stoy: Have you had a desire or opportunity to review any sort of past events regarding the MCSO, I guess I should add, that involve anyone in this case or investigation you have had contact with?

Spicher: No,  do you mean like any other detectives or that sort of thing?

Stoy: Have you ever met with or been interviewed with any other agencies or detectives?

Spicher:  I believe I either met or just said hello to the guy you mentioned in that recent article of yours while he was at the house.  Both Kaine and Terri were there at the time as well.

Stoy: Bobby O’Donnell?

Spicher: That’s it,  yes, him.  Why did you ask me if I am aware of any sort of events- should I be?

Stoy: Well, I think that tangentially if I were you I would be considering just about everything as it related to what you have been through,  and I am aware of some what I will refer to as “stuff” but what I don’t want to do prior to the completion of our interview process is temper any of your responses with anything I know peripherally if that’s ok with you.  If you wish, once I publish the continuation which will have that sort of information,  I would invite you to comment on it for the record if you choose- are you ok with that?

Spicher: yes, that’s fine and probably a good idea.

Stoy: back briefly to the “sting request against Terri- On that issue- the request they extended to you outside the presence of your attorney and that they asked you not to tell Chad, as you think back ,  considering you have had no communication with Horman for over three years did you believe they thought it would work?  What did your attorney say when you told him?

Spicher: I can’t and won’t address any conversations I have had with my attorney,  but to answer your question as to my opinion,  I really don’t know for sure, I knew that I did not, and thought it was really, really odd- that was my first reaction.  After more thought,  and other conversations,  I don’t see how they thought it would work, or why they were still seemingly convinced after I had just passed the poly, etc, Terri was still their suspect and responsible.   What is your opinion on it?

Stoy:  I think I may reserve my thoughts on that for my piece.  Again, not wanting to temper your opinions  as we move along here and I think that could happen if I did.  Is that ok with you?

Spicher: Sure, thank you.

Stoy: I would like to move on to another subject for discussion.  I would just like to confirm for the record that I have never prior to this interview, asked you any questions about your potential knowledge of steroid use by yourself, or by Terri or Kaine Horman.  Is that correct?

Spicher: Correct, ok.

Stoy: Did they ask you this?

Spicher: Who is they?  You got a lot of pronouns flying around (laughs).

Stoy: Fair point, you’re right.  The good news is, as English, or should I say proper English is my second language (laughs) I use an copy editor.  Allow me to rephrase please.  Did anyone in law enforcement at any time ask you about steroids or other illegal injectable supplements sometimes used in weight training or body building in your interviews in this case?

Spicher:  Your question was did they [le] ask me anything about steroids or anything injectable ever?

Stoy: (laughs) now who’s throwing around the pronouns?

Spicher: (laughs) touche’ .  I was asked about it very vaguely in the beginning, I told them I had never used them, that I did not believe Terri ever did because she and I had similar views against using them and while we were on different supplement regimens when I was training for a marathon in 2008 I still remembered her to be knowledgeable about legal and effective nutritional supplements. I had no reason to believe she had ever used any kind of steroids.  I can’t say conclusively she never did but it would shock me.

Stoy: Why shock you?

Spicher: Because a few years back I recall Terri telling me that Kaine was what she referred to as “juicing”  and that his behavior had become very aggressive and well,  impatient or overeactive with the kids and she had discussed it with him and he ignored her.

Stoy: So for the record, when you say juicing you are referring to illegal steroids, not my Omega specials I make, correct?  That was the only question they ever asked you and did not ask any follow up questions like how long ago, etc, etc.  And so would you characterize the way law enforcement asked that question and their reaction to your response as disinterested, or having nothing to do with the case?

Spicher: I was never asked about Kaine’s use of steroids by either detectives or the grand jury.  But yes, that is what she told me.  I actually had forgotten all about it until she refreshed my recollection when I stayed there with her.  To the best of my memory I was asked just what I said, I answered as I just said and was never asked any follow up question nor was it mentioned again to me by law enforcement .  I don’t think I ever really understood what they did or did not think in terms of my information was important to the case,  but yes,  they were disinterested from my perspective as to it was the only time I was ever asked about it over the course of three and a half years and so my assumption is they still are.  But that is my assumption.

Stoy:  Understood, you are referring to the time you stayed at the Horman home late June 2010 through early July 2010 following Kaine’s  service of the restraining order and her exclusive use of the home?  Spicher:  I am not sure about the exclusive use part,  I didn’t really know anything about how that sort of thing worked and I think for some reason I want to say Terri was not allowed to show anyone.

Stoy: Ok.  Tell me everything you know about that. But, I would like you to see if you can provide me your recollection from what you were told about steroid use PRIOR to your conversations about it that refreshed your memory.  By the way, who else knows about this, if you know.

Spicher: Terri’s attorney Stephen Houze.

Stoy:  How would you know that?

Spicher: Because I helped her load them up, what appeared to me to be syringes in a box and deliver it to her attorney’s office, she said, at his request.   She also located some cancelled checks for what she said was Kaine’s payment for steroids.  I don’t remember who they were made out to but it was not to cash.

Stoy: ok,  understood,  we will get back to that.  I want to try and focus on what she told you those “few years back.”  Do you recall what year, even ballpark.

Spicher:  I want to say, but can’t be sure, it was after her competition in 2005,  and I am tempted to say it was around the time they got married or shortly thereafter- I am just not going to be much help in remembering this if you are asking me to extract what I remembered from then on my own.

Stoy: Nope, that’s what I am asking, your fine,  I don’t want to lead you but let me ask you a few things that may help.  Do you remember where you were during the conversation.

Spicher: I remember it was either the one and only time I ever had lunch with Terri, or it was during a time she called my cell,  Terri had a lot of drama,  and so I was in a Home & Garden Show class and I recall I was saying things out loud to let he know I was not free to talk really or respond as she was talking, so I was saying things like… I don’t know,  we should probably touch base on that when I am done here, or sounds good that we chat on it later.

Stoy: The brush up the other party is not getting, like that?

Spicher:  Yes, she was not getting it and so I was kind of 50% paying attention.  It was either during that call or at the lunch.  Other than that, I am not remembering the timing so well.

Stoy: But you would say a few years before Kyron went missing so based on that 2007 or 2008? Do you remember if they were married at the time?

Spicher: Again, we were friends for a good number of years but not close friends, I almost felt like if she was calling me or talking to me about it she had no other option at the time.

Stoy: Got it.  What did she say

Spicher:  She said that Kaine had been aggressive with her and impatient with the children and she attributed that to his “juicing”.  She confronted him and she felt he did not listen to her.  She told me that she then called a detective and turned in Kaine’s seller.  The member at the gym, I used to know the name but I really can’t recall because I was in the early morning crowd and this guy was more afternoon, I presume when they were there or they saw him.  I had stopped going to the same gym as them ater the first year or two I met them there.

Stoy: So she called a detective to turn in the seller Kaine was buying steroids from?  Wasn’t she concerned about the fact that buying them is also illegal and that Kaine could face charges?

SPicher: She told me that she contacted a detective and said she would be willing to turn over information about someone selling steroids but only if she could do so anonymously and without saying who was buying them, etc.

Stoy: So it was your understanding that she was trying to work out a scenario that would stop Kaine’s use without him ever knowing it was her by turning in that person?  Sort of like…  she gets approval to remain anonymous,  she gives the tip and then one day comes home and says… “Hey honey, guess what I heard at the gym.. you better stop that or you could be arrested for it, etc?

Spicher: Yes, something like that.  Except and again,  we have discussed it at one or both these occasions, but that did not work out.  The detective called her again directly and she was upset that there was further contact.  From what I recall,  I think that was the tone of what she was telling me.

Stoy: Understood,  so you are thinking that it may have been why she was sort of wired about it and not hearing you try to go about your day,  but insisting and venting like she was upset by it.

Spicher: Yes,  I think so.

Stoy: Do you think she could have called you because your Dad was law enforcement and she might need that sort of advice.  I don’t think so because she did not ask for any.  So then what?  Did Kaine find out?

Spicher: I just remember there was some sort of investigation of the guy,  and I really don’t know if Kaine ever found out about it or knows to this day.   If the seller or anyone was arrested or anything else at the time I do not remember,  that was how much I paid attention to it then until Terri reminded me of it.

Stoy: Ok.  Now, why is it that Terri was discussing it with you when you were staying at the house with her in your view?

Spicher:    Because after the restraining order was served and I guess she realized where Kaine was headed,  it was sort of like- if he was going to badmouth her, in her estimation it was false, but anyway, that Kaine had skeletons in his own closet sort of thing.   She told her lawyer [Houze] and she said he instructed her to bring the syringes and the cancelled checks to his office.   We did.

Stoy: So was Terri saying that Kaine was using steroids behind her back and she found this or that she knew and was having sort of the same reaction as last time, or she just learned once he was out of the home or what?  Was she suggesting this to you like it had something to do with Kyron’s disappearance?

Spicher:  I got the impression she did not know, or at least did not know when the last time he was using them was, but it gets fuzzy for me there because it is my belief up until the time the RO was served,  in my opinion she would have tried to protect Kaine from le finding out so I don’t know if she told le,  but it would surprise me.  Terri was always very family centric.  She would protect her family unit, and that is why she did the turning in thing,  this would seem the same to me until he made those murder for hire allegations.

Stoy: So did you get the impression from her that she thought that her allegation of Kaine’s steroid use had anything to do with Kyron’s disappearance?

Spicher: No, not at all.

Stoy: Nothing like, maybe this happened as some sort of retribution against her for turning someone in previously or against Kaine if they thought he was involved because after all she says he was the one buying it back then?

Spicher: No, she told me she had no idea who was responsible for Kyron’s disappearance or why, and the only possibility she came up with after the fact because of his past behavior and the fact that he showed up at her door demanding $10,000 she had no idea what he was talking about, that it was the landscaper.   He was the only person acting like a criminal at the time.

Stoy: Have you ever seen a text of hers involving the custody situation after the fact, after the Rudy Sanchez Estrada “sting”  and she called police twice that day/evening that ended with “mark 1 for the FBI.”

Spicher: I may have, if I did I don’t remember it specifically.

Stoy: She specifically said the FBI,  who has only ever assisted in this case, and who has no jurisdictional presence in Kyron’s case, I was just wondering if you had any thoughts on that.

Spicher: No, I don’t have any idea what she meant.

Is it possible that illegal steroid use or sales and the recent public outing there was an ongoing Federal Investigation with the emphasis on police and gym members that included persons familiar to the Horman’s  contributed to the circumstances involving the disappearance of Kyron Horman?

Has it been excluded by having more law enforcement investigating themselves?

 

Roid Rumors and Boys In Blue.. Coincidence Or Clue?

It is no secret that Oregon has seen it’s share of corruption allegations in recent years.  The very public and very disturbing account of it’s Governor Neil Goldschmidt’s involvement with a 14 year old girl earned Willamette Week’s Nigel Jaquiss a Pulitzer in 2005 for breaking the story a year earlier.  As a strong argument for the trickle down effect,  Goldschmidt’s former driver Bernie Giusto- who became the Multnomah County Sheriff following the debacle,  was forced to resign his position when a State agency declared they would be removing his police certifications due to his lack of “moral fitness” outlined in the now infamous Giusto Report.   A former Sheriff,   Bob Skipper, was then appointed to take his place, but after two attempts could not pass the required certifications.  The current Multnomah Sheriff Dan Staton, who has since won an election, was appointed in his place.  Several current MCSO officers assigned to Kyron’s case were interviewed for the Giusto report.

In fact,  Bobby O’Donnell was the lead investigator in Kyron’s case for the first 18 months who according to his own words in his interview was the unfortunate subject of an allegation involving his own very messy divorce.

MCSO Sgt Brett Ritchie stated in a police interview that O’Donnell was seen waving a gun and threatening his life [Ritchie] after he began dating O’Donnell’s ex wife. Laura O’Donnell was granted a restraining order against him that later became an agreement between the couple.

The lead investigator in the case of a missing child openly threatened a ranking officer and that incident was never investigated outside of Ritchie being told to stay away from O’Donnell.   O’Donnell’s deposition and his motion to quash it are the subject of a hearing scheduled for Friday September 13, 2013.

There is no question the agency tasked with the investigation into the disappearance of Kyron Horman has had several and more recent embarrassing entanglements.

In another investigative piece by the Willamette Week,  it exposes the egregious overtime paychecks that members of the prosecutors and investigators assigned to Kyron’s case have received during the early months following Kyron’s disappearance.

It is unclear how Multnomah County ever had jurisdiction in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance. According to the Skyline School’s filed safety and response plan,  the Portland Police Bureau is the agency of record.

Multnomah County’s former woes might have paled a bit in comparison if only by the difference a year makes to public memory, to that of their fellow neighboring officers in Canby, located in Clackamas County.

After several investigations into the selling and possible use of anabolic steroids  a Canby Police officer, which were repeatedly stalled due to his caption  tipping other’s off  in the alleged ring ,  Officer Jason Deason was arrested along with Canby Landscape Supply Owner William Traverso,  Brian Casey Paul Jackson were arrested.  The investigation was believed to be ongoing and Traverso, Deason and Jackson all cut deals for quick prison stints that shocked fellow officers and the public alike.   The specifics of which were sealed by the court.  It is now known that the Federal Bureau of Investigation continued to require the ongoing cooperation of it’s criminals turned informants to pursue federal indictments against possible targets in law enforcement and members of the bodybuilding set- to include acquaintances of Kaine and Terri Horman.

Presuming the confirmed allegations are true- is it possible that ‘a few years back’ Terri Horman unwittingly set off a state turned Federal investigation into the buying, using and selling of human growth hormone and anabolic steroids?  How could this be connected, if it is, to the timing of Kyron’s disappearance even if she had?

“… Jackson,   through a plea deal on state charges in 2009 where he admitted to selling anabolic steroids to Canby police officers in uniform, had been working with the FBI on an ongoing investigation when they confronted him with the knowledge that he was found deceptive on a polygraph designed to indicate if Jackson’s participation was far more extensive then he originally admitted to…”

“…Jackson, with his attorney, began cooperating with federal authorities shortly after his arrest.  He identified his source for steroids as Vancouver resident Rainbow “Bo” Wild Keepers, 39, a competitive bodybuilder and photographer. Agents ran Keepers’ name in federal databases and discovered that an Arizona man had tipped off the Drug Enforcement Administration years ago that Keepers was his source of steroids. Keepers was never charged…”

 On June 3rd, 2010,  approximately 24 hours before Kyron Horman’s disappearance,  Jackson was arrested on a Federal warrant following a sealed indictment issued the day before after failing a polygraph and refusing to help the FBI further.

From the Indictment:

Between June 2, 2005 and May 2008, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials B.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury,  in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).

 

It has since been revealed that the initials BW stand for Bradley Worden.  Worden owns a few businesses, all relating to wholesale gym equipment or nutritional products.  Worden has never been charged.

 Between June 2006 and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials N.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).

 

The identity of the person with initials NW is unknown.

 

Between June 2, 2005, and December 2007,: in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule illcontrolled substances, to a person with the initials G.P., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and

841(b)( 1)(E).

 

The identity of the person with the initials G.P is unknown.

 

Between June 2, 2005, and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule III controlled substances, to a person with the initials S.B., whose full name is known  to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and 84l(b)(1)(E).

 

The initials S.B. refer to Steve Beaudoin,  a former work associate of Jackson’s and current Oregon State safety officer.

 

According to assistant U.S. Attorney Jane Shoemaker, Jackson sold Beaudoin at least 50 pills of the steroid Winstrol, an injectable steroid called Deca Durabolin, Sustanon and, in June 2007, 100 pills of Anavar on one to two occasions. Shoemaker also said Jackson sold Beaudoin $500 worth of human growth hormone. Investigators discovered the sales through witness interviews and Jackson’s computer records, Shoemaker said.

 

 

From Buff To Puff

 

In contrast to Jackson,  although Traverso also sold to Deason and other members of law enforcement,  William ‘Jake’ Traverso, a former competitive bodybuilder and “Mr. Oregon”  cooperated extensively with the FBI by identifying other law enforcement officers he sold steroids to, and got a lenient sentence of 15 days in jail, 30 days home detention and 24 months probation, with no federal charges.

In a letter submitted to a Clackamas County judge Monday, FBI Special Agent Christopher Frazier said that Traverso has discussed his drug distribution activities in detail. “The public safety employees identified by Traverso included law enforcement officers, corrections officers, fire and rescue personnel and university public safety officers,” Frazier wrote,  “Several spin-off FBI public corruption investigations were initiated as a result of these allegations, and are ongoing.”

 

Traverso, Deason and Jackson were cooperating with the Feds simultaneously, and in a very public way.  Although Deason had been similarly employed by the Canby Police under Chief Greg Kroeplin, at least one of the raids on Traverso- Deason’s client,  was by Deason’s Canby fellow officer James Murphy.

 

John Hingson, Traverso’s attorney and past commentator on the Horman case,  sparred with then ADA Norm Frink as well.  Hingson unearthed the report that included Murphy had been demoted following Deason’s arrest and his credibility was called into question.  Murphy worked the graveyard shift with Deason.  The report also revealed that both Deason and Officer James Murphy, who was one of the few to initiate an investigation into Deason’s steroid abuse, were put at risk when they were scheduled to work side by side as the only two officers on that shift.

“…Hingson obtained a 2009 report written by private detectives the City of Canby had hired to investigate the steroid scandal. Among their findings: Murphy had been demoted from detective to officer for alleged dishonesty…”

Chief GregKroeplin resigned prior to release of a scorching memo outlining the city’s findings they had outsourced properly to two retired Oregon detectives, which would have resulted in his termination.

Murphy, still employed by Canby Police, is apparently looking to renew the agencies stint for bad press.

 

On October 13, 2011, six months after former Willamette Week journalist James Pitkin featured his Lord of The Flies article outlining Murphy’s internal investigation led to his demotion for dishonestly, he arrested a freelance sports reporter while taking pictures of him exiting the Canby Police Headquarters on duty and entering his personal vehicle.

Andrew Millbrooke  filed a Federal lawsuit in 2012 against The City of Canby,  Officer James Murphy and his captain Bret Smith  for excessive force and wrongful arrest which took place after Murphy used his cruiser to follow Millbrooke who was on foot.   In a police report from another officer in the case, Millbrooke tells him he is a freelance journalist trying to expose corruption and drug use by Officer Murphy.  The suit is pending.  A review of the declarations by both Mr. Smith and Mr. Murphy do not include the details of the investigative report commissioned by The City Of Canby discussing Mr. Murphy’s prior demotion.  Mr. Murphy also had a recent court decision regarding improper procedure [See Bonneau].

 

With pending motions to release the employment files of some Canby police officers to include Murphy, the charges against  Traverso were dismissed  this past May due the state delaying the case over 23 months.

Traverso, Deason and Jackson are all currently on probation.  Traverso is awaiting trial on recent charges involving watermelon theft.

As the Federal Bureau of Investigation is listed as an investigative partner to MCSO in the Kyron Horman investigation, it is their policy not to release files where they are not the lead agency of record or during an ongoing criminal investigation .

Requests for comment from Kaine Horman through his attorney Brett Engel regarding the allegations that he has either purchased or sold  illegal steroids have not been returned at the time of this publication.

However, in an article published to include a quote from Kaine Horman it seems that Kaine confirms Ms. Spicher’s assertion that Terri Horman did not use illegal steroids,  but rather nutritional supplements and had moved past those very quickly after her bodybuilding competition.

“…Kaine said he noticed a sharp shift in her behavior, saying she became self-centered and short-tempered.

“She’s not eating a lot of food, she’s exercising twice a day, she’s up at 4 o’clock in the morning, she’s not sleeping at night so we get just general irritable behavior towards everyone around her,” he said.

He said she consumed over-the-counter stimulants, such as fat burners, in high doses. In four months between January and April, she shed 62 pounds, dropping from 185 to 123 pounds, he said.

At the end of April, with her muscles bulked up and skin glistening with a bronze tan, she competed in the Emerald Cup bodybuilding competition in Bellevue, Wash…”

S.Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief, www.blinkoncrime.com was able to independently confirm Ms. Spicher’s account of alleged steroid use and ensuing investigation of a gym member as told to her by Terri Horman.

The source,  an associate of Terri Horman, DeDe Spicher and Kaine Horman who declined to be identified, went on to say that at the time it was “… really common knowledge who was using steroids and who was selling them…”   “… was not aware previously that Terri Horman claimed to have instigated contact with law enforcement to turn in the seller…”  The source declined to identify the seller and could not say for certain if he was charged and likely would not away- given the request not to disclose the source’s name on the record.

Reached for comment,  Terri Moulton Horman Attorney Stephen Houze declined to comment based on his policy of not speaking publicly when a client has pending legal matters.

A request for comment to Mr. Bunch,  Terri Horman’s divorce attorney has not been returned by the time of this publication.

 

More Questions Than Answers..

Following several hours of interviews with  DeDe Spicher, the woman who was not a close friend to Terri Horman but ultimately was the closest to her in the early days of the investigation- are we left with more questions than answers about what could have happened to the little boy whose 11th birthday was 2 days ago?

Spicher concedes that anything she discussed as told to her by Terri Horman in some minor instances may only be verifiable by Horman herself- and she is not talking… Yet.

She also points out that ultimately everything she told me she shared with investigators as far as “truthfulness” was confirmed by a polygraph – to include the question “Was she withholding any information from investigators?”

She was not.

Although limited, Spicher’s accounts in many instances confirm sparse information heard early on from Terri herself.  Not the least of which was that although widely criticized for not speaking out publicly, she was told by investigators not to under any circumstances- and when she broached the possibility of retaining counsel was told that she would then be cut off from any information as to the investigation process to find Kyron Horman.

Through Spicher,  Horman also confirmed that out of concern for Horman’s “spacieness”  which she defined by walking into a room and staring off, not remembering, etc,  Terri Horman called his pediatrition Thursday June 3rd and made an appointment for Friday June 11th.  His last day of school. Horman also told Spicher that Kyron had wondered off or got lost while in his teacher Ms. Porter’s care once before when following a fellow student out of class.

Initially, prior to learning Kyron had been marked absent not very long after she left the building, that was Horman’s first thought.  Those hopes grew into panic with that revelation that he had been missing for hours.

 

Spicher says Terri was adamant that she never had a sexual relationship with the now infamous landscaper Rudy Sanchez Estrada  Spicher agrees that her friend had the propensity to be flirtatious but she never knew her to be sexually promiscuous.  Outside of the fact that she says at Kaine’s request to occasionally include an additional female in the bedroom,  to which Spicher declined, she was not aware that the Horman’s had a swinger lifestyle.

To her knowledge,  there were other women that were asked to participate in a threesome with the couple that did not say no some years ago, but had no current knowledge and she herself was never involved with Horman sexually.

In her take, the addition of a 3rd female was an expression of control on Kaine’s part in the relationship.

 

Terri explained the landscapers “sexual accosting” , previously reported exclusively by www.blinkoncrime this way:

“… She said she had Kitty on her hip and he came up behind her and was kissing her neck and put his arm around her and when she verbally resisted with concern that Kitty was in her arms he sort of grabbed her and she spun around and broke free…”

 

Spicher adds that on more than one occasion she tried to bring that up during meetings with DA Norm Frink and investigators.  One one occasion, as suggested by her Father, a former Klamath County Marine Officer,  at their own expense  The Klamath County Sheriff and his first lieutenant had  agreed to meet with Frink, Spicher and her father on DeDe’s behalf to sort of provide character backgrounds and family history he felt would be helpful in clearing her.

“…  This came up in the first interview I had with Mr Frink and I told him she had made that call. Later in the interview when he was trying to push more of my buttons, he tells me that call never happened (implying Terri had lied to me). I told him okay, that’s what you’re telling me, but I recall it differently (implying he was lying to me right then). He got very angry about that and insisted it was “fact”. I said okay, whatever. Much later, like one of the last times I met with Mr Frink, the Klamath County Sheriff and his 1st Lieutenant flew up on their own dime to meet with Mr Frink & Keith Krafve to see if they could help by offering their opinion of my character, and that it didn’t seem unusual to them at all that I would go help Terri, that it is very consistent with how my family has always been. At that meeting, I retold the story of Rudy sexually accosting Terri (her words), but said I wasn’t sure about the 911 call. That totally infuriated Mr Frink. I told him I was trying to believe him and simply not certain about what I could remember on that point.

 

The DAs office behaved very strangely toward the Klamath Co Sheriff and his Lt. They tried everything they could to keep us separated and even insisted that they (the DAs office) drive them back to the airport, despite the fine fact that we (Dad & I) had picked them up and brought them in, and would definitely be seeing them again in the near future. It was just weird, to all of us…”

 

I asked DeDe if she used the term called 911 in every exchange.  She had.  I asked her if she got the impression that the reason Frink was so sure it never happened was because there was no 911 call on the record about it – could it be that maybe she reached out to that former law enforcement person she contacted on the steroid issue and it was actually a dispatch call versus a trackable 911 call issue.

Spicher says she got the impression that Frink was suggesting that the “accosting” as described by her friend did not happen, but could not be sure except to say that Frink seemed to become irate when she brought it up on every occasion.  Spicher felt Sanchez Estrada was the only person behaving like a criminal and that supported the accounts she was given.

I asked DeDe if Terri mentioned ever paying Sanchez Estrada for work at the Horman home.  She said she did not recall Terri ever saying anything other than she had no idea what he was talking about when he came to the door and asked for $10,000 so she slammed the door in his face and called 911.

Stoy: So did she think it was some sort of extortion attempt now that she had mentioned him to investigators and they told her that they had interviewed him?

Spicher: She thought that he was dangerous from her past experience.

Stoy: Did you think it was odd that with a brand new John Deere tractor parked outside that TH was hiring a landscaper?  I was able to confirm through other sources that he cleared some blackberry or blueberry bushes similar to Ms. Von Klevelen,  and the tractor does not have a UCC lien on it, meaning it was not financed.

Spicher:  No, it wasn’t.  Kaine bought it.  It was Terri’s job to manage the inside of the house as well as the entire property.   I knew that when Kaine would travel he would come up with this project lists for her to complete by the time he got home.  I  mean, like cleaning the gutters,  cutting the grass, washing all the windows, that sort of thing.  To the best of my recollection Terri and Kaine did not have bank accounts together- he controlled everything he made.

Stoy: With a baby,  7 year old and teenager and hubby out of town? How was she managing that?  No wonder he was suggesting that she was pouring through money like water or something like that, she was probably hiring help.  I am not even sure I think a woman by herself at that property with a baby should be on the roof by herself anyway.

Spicher:  No,  Terri  had to pay any support money or whatever to the household expenses and I have surmised Kaine gave her some sort of allowance which she probably blew through pretty quickly on frivolous things like food and clothes for her children.  I have never known Terri to be frivolous with money.  I know of at least two times when the projects she was supposed to accomplish were impossible for her to manage.  One was the windows so I believe she hired someone that time and as I recall her parents paid for that.  I believe the other was the landscaper.

Stoy: Is it a fair question for me to ask how you feel about Kaine, from your tone I am sensing you are not a fan.

Spicher: I have tremendous compassion for Kaine- he lost his child- what can one even say about that?  But no, he is not someone I would want to be friends with today and I was cordial to him whenever I was around him but he was very controlling and was pretty mean to Terri about her weight from Kitty, things like that- I am not going to have anything in common with that.

Stoy:  Did Terri ever mention anything about conflicts with Desiree Young, whether they were between her and she or Kaine and Desiree?

Spicher: Not that I recall, but I also never heard her speak of Desiree negatively at any time previously or when I stayed with her [Terri].

Stoy: That is saying a lot because right after the sting Ms. Young was pretty accusatory pretty quickly- and I do note that was based on information from law enforcement.  Similar to some of the things both she and Kaine said publicly about you.  Are you angry about that?

Spicher:  O my no.  That poor woman is going through hell and acted on information that I was told, lie or not, was given to her and Kaine.  I have nothing but compassion for her and I wish I could shoulder some of her pain because I can..   I have nothing but compassion for all of Kyron’s parents and any anger I have over how I was treated, what I went through would never be directed at them.   I really pray that Kyron will be found,  I choose to put my energy into hope for that.

Pending Matters

Through Attorney Bunch,  Terri Horman makes the claim that both law enforcement and Kaine Horman have been perpetrating the dissemination of inaccurate information involving the circumstances of Kyron Horman’s disappearance.

In a recent filing, set for hearing this Friday,  Bunch pens a scathing reply to Deputy O’Donnell’s motion to quash, and accuses the county of improper ex parte communication.

Early this afternoon,  a source within the Multnomah County Courthouse speaking on the condition of anonymity has confirmed that on behalf of Multnomah County, a motion has been filed to limit certain documents or discoverable information related to Mr. Horman and Bobby O’Donnell of the MCSO.

A hearing is scheduled before Judge Kantor for this Friday September 13, 2013

 

 

Jacqueline Beaufort,  Ellie Sanders – research and contributing editors to this article.

Jason Mateos- contributing editor, copy.

 

 

Related Posts:

4,398 Comments

  1. Rose says:

    TRuth. Why not get an iphone for Xmas.
    1St podcast link brings it right up;
    2nd doesn’t.

  2. Rose says:

    what I want for Xmas for this case only
    –a complete depo dump, both sides
    –a foia wrt all Court records, followed by public site posting
    –a different case lead–any other LE agency will do at this point
    –the County Commishes actually supervise the expenditures of mcso
    –the Warroom v Warroom case be reassigned to an experienced Judge
    on the Family Bench who did not work for DA
    –M McShane on Federal Bench to some day get some element of this case
    –J Whoever to ensure both O’Donnell & RSE get depo’d by Houze to find Truth
    –crazy stalkers get arrested
    –a reporter finds RSE & asks why he has an attorney, who stopped him at Mtg w/Terri
    (imo it was not the Sting, but the Simple Assault)
    –Kaine discloses BKH financial simple balance sheet & financials thru 9/13
    –Kelley discloses financials to date for go fund ME
    –Skyline gets an academically effective principal & young el ed math/reading
    instruction, because if Skyline starts getting stellar State acores, parents will flock there
    –O Live gives it’s reporters way fewer pididdly writing chores & way more
    think tank time to investigate & interview

    I can probably come up with 20 more important things, but stopping now

  3. GraceintheHills says:

    Rose says:

    December 11, 2013 at 7:01 pm

    @Grace… I recall when Desiree was asked how they got along, she said haltingly something like they cooperated for the sake of Kyron. I do not recall her saying anything positive. The way Terri schlepped her son South & back, Desiree should’ve had abject gratitude at least she never had to drive to Portland, roundtrip, for pickup & return. Would’ve inconvenienced her job. Tho she had 2 sisters who could’ve helped it seems.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~
    Rose, when TH was doing all that schlepping she was also taking James to visit the Tarvers. My understanding is that Mr. McCollough, Quinn’s father, also sometimes met them half way. I would bet those long commutes must have gotten pretty old after awhile. I did hear that DY sometimes made the drive when others were not available to do so. It would seem that when people decide to have children and then divorce, they should be required to live within a more reasonable distance from each other – seems that would truly be in the best interest of the kiddos!

  4. grasshopper says:

    strange website. don’t understand it but still breaks my heart

    Dirty Jeep
    December 9 via mobile
    Hey!! Mark your calendar now, and get your groups and buddies out to Kyron’s 3rd Car Show – August 3rd!!
    We will have Kyron’s Choice and, new this year, Lindsey’s Choice!
    Check out all the info, new location and lots of community oriented fun times. Let’s bring these two home in time for THEIR car show
    http://www.bringkyronhome.org/events/kyron-s-car-show/

    Dirty Jeep
    December 9 via mobile
    Well it’s been a long time since we posted!!
    Sorry about that, we will continue to update the upcoming events for Kyron.
    Finally able to thaw out the rag top and windows! One window on (I have bruises to prove it lol), next one either tonight or tomorrow.

    Can’t wait to get out with our door wraps to remind ppl KYRON IS STILL MISSING!!
    Never give up hope, we will all work as a team to bring him home and have the greatest celebration, and yes, the promise still stands- kiddo gets to 4×4 in DJ when he comes home :) )
    Love to all… Maybe I’ll get pics of hubby sliding DJ around in the freezing rain lol

    https://www.facebook.com/DirtyJeepNW

  5. Malty says:

    LOL Rose
    Worked her butt off for 3 years
    On a anti site
    What a waste of time

  6. vw says:

    “Overtime has increased 16 percent over the last four years. ”
    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/12/multnomah_county_sheriffs_depa.html#incart_river

    Read that this morning and the audit, someone left the link on my blog…must know me, LOL. Kept myself busy pounding out silver for the holiday market, instead of stomping up and down shouting “Out in 2014…gimme someone solid to back”.

  7. vw says:

    @Rose. btw there is a footnote on the depo stating an interpreter was there. Wonder who paid for interpreter, or is that via the taxpayer. Doubt TMH was fluent in spanish. No suggestion of that in the brief excerpt of the depo. I wonder if I can get the complete depo at the courthouse if not in the file. PPS was closed today. Not sure MC Courthouse is up and running yet. Snowstorm back east?

    Does everyone remember when I said there were language barrier issues, and again referred to broken english and english as a second language?

    B

  8. vw says:

    Rose.
    Re: RSE depo was held a month post-objection to perpetuation noticed depi, with Respondent’s attorney also questioning at same, suggesting this was a perpetuation depo rescheduled to meet notice requirements. Much here we don’t know. So much for “the files.”
    —-
    Also suggests that Kantor is, again, ruling in Houze’s favor. Perhaps his epiphany came when he suddenly, as if an afterthought…said “Oh…yeah…LE is still here….I suppose they shouldn’t be…” after Houze’s hour-long complaint regarding OR laws not being followed despite several objections citing such? Not a direct quote, but GH can attest to his “recall”.

    Blink, I’m not sure about that final meeting being the sting. IIRC it was a meeting before the adbduction that Houze was referring to . I’ll look again.

    PS. Wonder if LE took a translator to the STING.

  9. vw says:

    Excerpt from the Depo with Kaine with regard to the INSIDIOUS nature of LE’s creation of alienation of mother and child.

    Questions from Kaine’s Depo:

    Houze: Has Kiara indicated to you that she believes that her mother is dead?

    A. I don’t believe so

    Q: Are you not certain when you say you don’t believe so?

    A. I don’t recall her making that statement but I –I don’t–I just don’t remember

    A I don’t recall her say that that way though.

    Q. Again, without revealing anything that you may have heard from LE, is there any reason you have not spoken to Kiara about her mother and her whereabouts and desire to see her?
    A. She hasn’t asked.
    Q. Okay. Is that the only reason.
    A. That’s the primary reason.
    Q. OKay, did you make the decision that you were not going to, yourself, bring it up to her. The subject of her mother, her mother’s absence.
    A. Did I decide that myself?
    Q. Did you ake that as an independent decision?
    A. I’m struggling with the answer.

    Engel: Yea, I can help, I think. He’s trying to tell yo that some of this comes from law enforcement.

    Mr. Houze: I don’t want you to answer anything from law enforcement.

    By Mr Houze:

    Q So the question was, did you independently make this decision to not bring it up? If the answer is —

    A. I guess the answer would be no -

    Q. All right.

    A. — baring what I can talk about

    Depending upon what was said to him, and I might suggest as long as it was related to alienation of Baby K from her Mom it “counts”, it is a violation of statute- custodial interference when willfull and at a very minimum should constitute the court to appoint a GAL or open a CPS investigation.
    B

  10. RedRose says:

    December 11, 2013 at 2:24 am didn’t know if I should post that or not….

  11. Lauren says:

    I must say this…. It frightens me the lengths people are going to track down TMH. It’s absolutely stalking and it is not okay for this behavior to be happening.

    I don’t care how adamant some people are as to her guilt. I sure hope none of us are EVER in her position. I don’t know how she has managed to cope with the stress of a missing stepson, the glaring, nonstop barrage of the media AND an angry public.

    Following and photographing someone and posting it online is beyond creepy. It needs to stop.

    All JMO

  12. Rose says:

    imo the reason Rees & Woods have an overriding interest in O’Donnell never seeing the light of day in this case is very simple. For 5 years ar least he was mcso’s detailee to the County’s Portland Police Bureau ChildAbuse Team, that DA/Child Welfare/LE Interdisciplinary Team. That means he would have been a testifying detective for many criminal cases involving sex crimes against children–not only family-based, but stranger child rapes, pedophile rapists of the caliber of Dusenbury, etc. Lee Gossen was head of that Team per press. That is undoubtedly why Gossen & O’Donnell were assigned to Kyron, imo it was a suspected sex crime against a child from the start.
    Anyway, if O’Donnell is documented under oath lying in this case, every single trial of a child sex or physical abuse (any criminal) case he testified at would be likely to be revisited, convictions set aside, & retried. Since these trials out of the Child Abuse Team for sex & abuse crimes against minors are confidential, we don’t know how many O’Donnell testified at and would be affected, but imo the DA’s Office does. Personally, I’d rather have clean gov’t & let the chips fall where they may with DAs in future demanding Detectives with clean records only on the Child Abuse Team.
    http://www.portlandoregon.gov/police/article/346238 P 7, Awards, for O’Donnell on CAT

  13. Rose says:

    to self-correct, from the start due to Gossen then O’Donnell leads, Kyron was seen as a physical abuse OR sex abuse case, whether family or stranger, because that was the Detective POV they’d professionally identified with for years as part of the PPB CAT.

  14. T. Ruth says:

    @Blink, That link worked, thank you. I did not know Megan Sharpton’s mom had taken her own life, that made me sad.

  15. NelMel says:

    Setting aside my own opinions, question for everyone:

    Who thinks that it is possible that LE was after TMH for her ratting on the steroids thingy?

    Stranger things have happened in this world besides a vindictive pack of guys who don’t like tattle tales.

    Two ways this could be the case? That Kyron’s abduction by a SZ opened the floodgates for opportunistic (and pissed off) LE to get even with TMH for ratting on the steroids or…

    SZ is LE and grabbing Kyron was step one in getting rid of TMH as a threat to any of them.

    Either way, KH is blindsided and just caves and goes along.

    Now, onto watching “Pinocchio” with my neighbor’s four year old on this very snowy, cold day.

    Did I mention I was watching Pinocchio?

  16. T. Ruth says:

    @vw says:
    December 12, 2013 at 12:49 am

    Houze has him in between a rock and hard place, he can’t say it was his idea and intention to separate child from mother as he knows that is just plain wrong and not in the child’s best interest which he learned from his parenting class, that he took after divorcing Desiree Young. (Remember the RO Desiree issued on Kaine, because she was afraid he would take her boys?)

    He can’t say LE made him do it, if they did, because that will open up a huge lawsuit against Multnomah County.

    Mostly, I love the disclaimer part at the bottom where it says Mr. Horman has the right to change his mind in future depositions. LOL, are you kidding me?

  17. Amys Sister says:

    vw says:

    December 12, 2013 at 12:49 am
    ____

    Despicable. There is no excuse for this. None and it will absolutely hurt him with regards to the evaluation and the judges ruling.

    Yes, he is obviously doing what he does best, denial denial denial.

    Why not just admit, “Hey, I thought my wife killed my son and would be going to jail for a long time.” Even though that isn’t reasonable at least it’s honest.

    IMO, Kaine never thought Terri would fight back because initially she didn’t. He thought he could get away with removing any memory or knowledge of her mother from her.

    This will backfire like Miss Daisy’s car at the Piggly Wiggly.

    There is no reasonable person that reviewed that deposition that does not believe Kaine is full of chit. And.. LE did not make him that way.
    B

  18. T. Ruth says:

    Just a refresher for Mr. Horman’s failing memory:

    July 16, 2010:
    http://www.kgw.com/news/Kaine-Horman-Terri-was-a-good-person-when-we-first-met-98620944.html
    In response, he wrote: “Terri was a good person when we first met and for several years (I’d say up until 2008). She was always about children (teaching) and helping them grow and develop. Her attitude was always about those types of things first, her own self not even being a priority close to that. I believe that this is the Terri that everyone else saw and got to know as I did.”

    “Honestly everyone, including myself, that knew her or knows her did not see this coming. She was not the type of person we are seeing right now,” added Kaine Horman.

    (snipped)
    http://www.kgw.com/news/Kaine-Horman-Terri-was-a-good-person-when-we-first-met-98620944.html

    **********

    (Transcribed courtesy of BeanE @ WS)
    http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5833179
    Originally Posted by BeanE View Post
    Kaine Horman speaks out about vicious legal battle
    Posted on November 19, 2010 at 8:51 AM

    KGW interview with Kaine – he wanted to clarify some of the points he made in his press conference on Monday.

    Transcription

    Reporter: Kaine Horman says he wishes his estranged wife, Terri, was still by his side, still helping in the search for Kyron Horman. He also says he knows wishing doesn’t make it happen, and he believes she had something to do with Kyron’s disappearance.

    Reporter: Kaine wanted to speak today to clarify some points he made at a press conference earlier this week.

    One thing that doesn’t need any clearing up – his focus on finding his son.

    Kaine: This is the most difficult thing I’ve ever been through in my life.

    Kaine: This is all about him and his sister, and there should be no doubt about that.

    Reporter: In the divorce proceedings, Kaine accuses Terri of drunkenness, and sending sexually explicit text messages to another man. Kaine says he understands why some consider that mudslinging. He sees it differently.

    Kaine: The legal fight for Kyron is at our doorstep right now. Even the judge has stated that this is all about finding Kyron and bringing him home, and there should be nothing that prevents that or deters from that, and this is definitely not deterring from it in one bit.

    Reporter: Kaine also says he’s focused on protecting the couple’s daughter. He says Terri has already caused more damage to the young girl then she’ll ever be able to repair, and says visitation rights for Terri would only hurt the girl more.

    Kaine: To then come back and file and say hey, we’re doing stuff in the best interest of the child, I don’t think she has any idea what it means to do something in the best interest of any child at this point.

    Kaine: Don’t worry for a second. We’re out here looking for you. And we just, we just love you more than anything else.

    http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Kaine-Horman-speaks-out-about-vicious-legal-battle-109227234.html

    So, months after his notification of the MFHP, and a failed sting, (Wonder how he felt about that sting not working?), he wishes Terri was at his side. So, before given this information from LE, and apparently after it could not be confirmed, he wishes Terri was at his side?

    Since we now know that there had been recent divorce talks between the two of them, and we now know that Terri allegedly feared that Kaine would do to her, what he did to Desiree. Take away their daughter. Isn’t it kind of interesting his choice of words about Kyron? The legal fight *for Kyron*. Is it possible that one of these two people, either Terri or Kaine have Kyron hidden away, and this has been all about custody since the beginning? Was Terri threatening Kaine to not only get full custody of their daughter, but her step son as well? Is that even possible?

    And if he still wishes Terri was at his side? How in the hell can he be saying in his next breath that Terri has caused more damage to their daughter than can every be repaired? If true, why would he want Terri by his side? WTH is he talking about? What damage did Terri do to their daughter? I hope Mr. Houze asks him.

    This man speaks in circles. He has done so since the beginning and continues to do so in his deposition.

  19. erose says:

    @NelMel, If only the liars noses would grow.

  20. Sunshine_4me says:

    @NelMel – This has been my thought since the roid story; LE wanted to make TH pay for snitching. I’ve felt from early on since Ky’s disappearance that LE was involved; bad cop that no one has any idea nor would never suspect.

  21. erose says:

    @NelMel, I think if the steroids were the cause of Kyron’s disappearance, it is the drug dealer that arranged for his abduction and LE is forced, by virtue of blackmail, to look the other way.

  22. Venetia says:

    @NelMel,

    You ask who thinks it possible that LE was after TMH for her ratting on the steroids thingy?

    IMO, there is a lot of revenge type activity in this case- targeting TH and coming from various sources. Some are obvious and some not.

    I believe the pre-Kyron going missing volleys were fired from behind Virtual Machines. IOW, ppl using the net to cause negative consequences while hiding their online identity.

    In the vernacular of those doing such things, when directed at a single person/target, it is called ‘Life Ruin.’ I would say that TH
    has been made to become the poster-woman for that descriptor. Nuance intended.

    In order to better understand life today as relates to the internet I suggest:

    http://www.amazon.com/We-Are-Inside-LulzSec-Insurgency/dp/0316213527

    We Are Anonymous: Inside the Hacker World of LulzSec, Anonymous, and the Global Cyber Insurgency by Parmy Olson.

    The author explains ‘Life Ruin’ and much more.

    Not all the culprits are teenagers as the media would have us believe. Those in the tech field (IT) are less likely to get caught.

  23. grasshopper says:

    TRuth says, Since we now know that there had been recent divorce talks between the two of them, and we now know that Terri allegedly feared that Kaine would do to her, what he did to Desiree. Take away their daughter. Isn’t it kind of interesting his choice of words about Kyron? The legal fight *for Kyron*. Is it possible that one of these two people, either Terri or Kaine have Kyron hidden away, and this has been all about custody since the beginning? Was Terri threatening Kaine to not only get full custody of their daughter, but her step son as well? Is that even possible?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    DO we know there were recent divorce talks between T and K? We only have K’s word for that. He may have been intending divorce since he had already found another woman but we don’t know if T was in the know. She might have also been thinking about it but we don’t know about discussions since we have no info from her. It would not surprise me if K said T was going to try to get custody of Kyron but again that info means little to me coming from him. seems that with a divorce K would more likely lose custody to D. Glad you brought this up. I don’t remember reading that he talked about a vicious legal fight over Kyron.

    I think what he’s talking about the harm done to Kiara is his belief that T did something terrible to Kyron in Kiara’s presence. again his opinion based on no evidence we are aware of.

  24. grasshopper says:

    @Nelmel, Great question!

    I don’t think ratting on the steroids thing is enough in itself for this degree of cover up. There is something bigger at stake her. Possibly the supplier also supplies to LE and other powerful individuals. I suspect that K is involved in the steroid ring and that is why he is heavily protected by LE.

    If, as it now appears, the entire “case” against Terri is fabricated by lies from LE to K and others (remember the surrogates/experts who spoke on TV early on assuring us that Terri was guilty and would be arrested?). Whatever info they have to news outlets was also slanted. They now turn somersaults to protect their “investigative strategy” and “mental impressions” because even they must realize they’ve gone way to far and all they can do is hope to stall until they all retire.

    Some of the officers or judges or whoever might also be involved in other things that would come out if the steroid ring was broken. Porn rings among those above the law are not uncommon in other cities. Whether that will come out I don’t know. I believe it is likely connected with Kyron’s disappearance but don’t have a theory on how.

    I have come to believe that T was chosen to be the target because they know she does not know where Kyron is, so they can continue their charade indefinitely, especially with a tame judge.

  25. sam h says:

    I have lived in wa state most of my life and have had alot of interactions with hispanics. all know what staged robbery means, none i have evver spokenn to know what mugging even means. justt sayin-

  26. sam h says:

    @Blink-i forgot you are from new york area! Translation of last post, it should read:
    We here live in the wild wild west coast. from the streets of downtown seattle to oregon and california people frequently say “i want you to ‘off that guy’ rob him, slice him and take his bucks, put a hit on him, do a drive by an btw he has mucho deario, hehe etc. i have never heard a caucasian or hispanic, or any nationality here in 52 yrs use the expression mugging! Thats what happens if we somehow get to visit the big apple!

  27. Rose says:

    @NelMel wrt “Either way, KH is blindsided and just caves and goes along.”
    Kaine doesn’t present as someone LE could blindside nor someone who’d ever just go along.

    Harkenening back to BOC initially suggesting RSE is “key.”
    And “a parallel investigation”
    As Beejay suggested frequently, info necessary to discredit RSE will
    most likely come from his own close associates in his hispanic community.
    I am surprised fbi didn’t plant an undercover stool pigeon on his truck for 2-3 summers,
    long enough for the undercover to garner trust.

  28. Rose says:

    @Venetia. I was wondering about Menlo Park
    friends of friends, prompted by ol green eyes.

  29. cd says:

    T. Ruth says:
    December 12, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    Since we now know that there had been recent divorce talks between the two of them, and we now know that Terri allegedly feared that Kaine would do to her, what he did to Desiree. Take away their daughter.

    —————–
    Kaine did not take Kyron away from Desiree she could have chosen to leave Kyron in the care of her family when she went to Canada but she choose to Give Kyron to Kaine. I have never heard that she initiated a custody fight to get Kyron back after she returned. I’m sure Kaine would have had a custody fight from TH had they started divorce proceeding before Kyron went missing.

  30. Rose says:

    just ask, who had the most
    to gain from a forced divorce?

  31. Rose says:

    if in fact it was a perpetuation depo, as I suggest it was, Kantor was NOT ruling in Houze’ favor. First, RSE doesn’t qualify, unless they can guarantee he will be drported before next June. Second, the reason dor long notice is so adverse party, Respondent, can depo him first to get material to cross him with as thoroughly as if at Trial–I see nowhere Kantor allowed Houze an dependent depo of RSE wrt the mfh. Since it’s part of a criminal case, shocking
    Engel was allowed to depo on the mfh! Finally, if it was a perpetuation depo, Houze was not allowed
    cross on other RSE-Terri interactions. Tho it was RSE’s attorney who stopped it, therefore I believe there was criminal
    activity in that meeting (ie the Simple Assault). In any case wrt one of two crimes KH alleges, the substance of the RO, Kantor did not allow Houze to take a prior depo of RSE which is the ordinary & usual course of business, showing his judicial inexperience with the criminal as well as family bench, and his biases. We see J Kantor very differently.

  32. Rose says:

    allowed Houze an INdependent, preceding depo…

  33. vw says:

    JMO….but what kind of parent would not REMEMBER if their child said to them:

    “Daddy, I think Momma is dead.”

    @Amy. Yes. Despicable. On both LE’s and Kaine’s part.

    @Ruth. Might have something there with Bobby.

    None. Not even bad ones.
    Here’s a question. Doesn’t this egregious response necessitate a conversation about what Kaine said to Baby K about Kyron?

    How are the 2 instances different when they involve the same parent?

    B

  34. Rose says:

    @Malty. commitment to a publically known &
    acknowledged “ownership” of said AntiTH SM
    site is the predominant
    psychological insight.

  35. Rose says:

    It seems to me the only way to get both full depos is for a
    member of the press to file foias before it’s too late.

    -A good project for a college journalism student would be to find every CAT trial
    at which O’Donnell testified for the gov’t during his CAT tenure having a public
    record, note outcome for gov’t, and size up the importance
    of BO’D's testimony to the outcome. Most would be confidential, but maybe
    a handful were public, stranger trials.

  36. Rose says:

    @Grace. Did James have visitation with the Tarvers before he moved? I thought it was a
    new relationship, which took off after he moved to Moultons.
    I did imagine he rode with Terri tho so he
    wouldn’t be left to his own Friday nite unsupervised devices. I hardly
    think Kaine would babysit on Friday nite rather than going out to Glen’s with friends.

  37. cd says:

    T. Ruth says:
    December 12, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    The legal fight *for Kyron*. Is it possible that one of these two people, either Terri or Kaine have Kyron hidden away, and this has been all about custody since the beginning? Was Terri threatening Kaine to not only get full custody of their daughter, but her step son as well? Is that even possible?
    ———-
    I think it is possible. Kaine may have had as much to fear losing custody of the children as TH. Considering baby-k’s tender age and TH being the stay at home full time caregiver I would believe she would be more likely to get custody then Kaine. Probably the outcome would have been joint custody with the children residing with TH.

  38. DistantReader says:

    Just had to hop in here. I admire the truth and justice promoted on this site. No holds barred, truth. Thanks to VWolfe. You have been reading up from the start. Never doubt your insights. I’d like to add a little tidbit to remember. Telivised out of dy’s mouth. The first call to her from the school, her first reaction to it was “What Did You Do”? AAnnnnd they were off to the races to implicate Terri.

    Distant- welcome.

    That is not accurate. Respectfully I ask that you support your post with source links.

    B

  39. DistantReader says:

    Two more, The initial 911… wasn’t. It was made to a shared non emergency line for pps to call MCSO or Portland police. The teacher had to be called back from home to even find out that Kyron hadn’t been in class all day. That ‘reporting must have been in her purse? I have never been anything other than an outsider with enough time on my hands to research this into the ground hoping for justice. Good Tidings to all of you. Especially Blink, who has provided this forum and the means to speak in ‘brainstorm’ without the attacks.

  40. Rose says:

    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/12/multnomah_county_sheriffs_offi_11.html#incart_river
    “Aside from a few questions about the numbers, commissioners didn’t say much ” Sounds like Dan has little budgetary oversight. Some suit needs to get mcso’s jail management & staffing into Court receivership for 3-5 years.

  41. grasshopper says:

    Characters in the hater crater. SM, who was all offended at the fake anti page and is ‘officially’ running the new and improved hate page is the mother of TWO kids who murdered another child for drugs. It certainly puts in perspective the kind of people that D is associating herself and call themselves Kyron Warriors.

    Vanessa Morris and Brandon Adams are Stacey Morris’ kids.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascounty/index.ssf/2009/04/canby_man_gets_40_years_in_rob.html

    Two others involved in the robbery-murder — Adams’ half-sister, Vanessa Evelyn Morris, and Nestor David Diaz-Miller — pleaded guilty last year and were sentenced to 17 1/2 years and 25 years respectively.

    another link with info
    http://www.katu.com/news/19582919.html

  42. sam h says:

    Correction on last post- mucho denario

  43. A Texas Grandfather says:

    Rose

    The management of a jail and investigative unit of a sheriff’s office is often the downfall of an elected sheriff.

    I agree with you about a Court receivership for longer than you say.

    NelMel

    In regards to your question: I have believed from the get go that some in the MCSO organization have a reason to attack TH for the steroid call. These people were going to punish anyone who messed with their money machine. The real question beyond that is how many and who are they?

  44. RedRose says:

    How does, in the name of ANY thing at all, compare with a choice between snatching a little boy and/or making a few dollars (or even more) selling steroids?

    This is just the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard – Kyron for Steroids or Kyron OR steroids. This is NUTS. What in the name of heaven is so important that these low-lifes LEOs and parents (and neighbors, too) don’t just turn on each other and spit out a few truths.

    Kyron never hurt anyone. If anything, the roid ring should have gotten their steroid revenge by going after a grown-up instead of an innocent little boy. INSTEAD of, I wrote … but NOT by hurting a little boy.

    I’m in grrrr mode, especially when we read about the police doing a “token” break-up a steroid ring as they did last week or the week before here in Portland, but still they don’t seem interested enough to get to the REAL steroid-for-little-boy swap.

    I understand about LE corruption probably pretty prevalent here in Portland, but for pete’s sake, there have to be at least ONE or TWO honest LEOs around. Turning on their peers is worth it even if they lose their jobs. Who would want to work for a law enforcement agency that corrupt anyway? They should just blow their whistles and then go somewhere and sell cars. or something.

    Well. I feel better now. Back to reading…
    Say what you think, RedRose…

  45. T. Ruth says:

    cd says:
    December 12, 2013 at 6:20 pm

    I guess my question is a legal one. Could a step-mom ever get custody of her step-child, when there are two bio-parents still around and deemed at the very least somewhat okay parents? What would be the circumstances that would ever be allowed?

    I don’t know the legal ramifications. I also wonder why, if true, Terri would ever tell anyone that she thought Kaine *COULD* take away her child? Why would Desiree Young, years ago, think that Kaine could do the same thing, apparently, and even more so ,take away her first son Quinn as well, Ky’s half brother?

    IDK, but I have a feeling we’re all being duped by someone. I hope someone has the wherewithal to go back to the old NRH divorce documents and see what was going on back then.

  46. T. Ruth says:

    cd says:
    December 12, 2013 at 5:25 pm

    T. Ruth says:
    December 12, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    Since we now know that there had been recent divorce talks between the two of them, and we now know that Terri allegedly feared that Kaine would do to her, what he did to Desiree. Take away their daughter.

    —————–
    Kaine did not take Kyron away from Desiree she could have chosen to leave Kyron in the care of her family when she went to Canada but she choose to Give Kyron to Kaine. I have never heard that she initiated a custody fight to get Kyron back after she returned. I’m sure Kaine would have had a custody fight from TH had they started divorce proceeding before Kyron went missing.

    *************

    @cd, Just thinking about your statement, it could have read like this: Kaine did not take (daughter) away from Terri, she could have chosen to defend herself in ………

    Anywho, IDK, because I do not have their divorce docs. (Kaine & Desi), but, I do know it was reported that Desiree, not only implemented a restraining order on Kaine for fear of the removal of Kyron, but also for the removal Quinn from her custody. IMHO, that means, she was afraid. Afraid of Kaine Horman, otherwise there should have been some sort of agreement without necessitating an RO. My guess, JMO, is that they too had discussed the divorce situation, and perhaps that’s when KH said your getting custody of Kyron is “not an option”. I think back to Desiree’s letter to Terri that she read, when she stated to Terri, I know what you are going through, and truly I think she really does.

    History repeating itself? IDK.

  47. Rose says:

    @TRuth via cd wrt “. Is it possible that one of these two people, either Terri or Kaine have Kyron hidden away”

    appears to me a monumental tragedy of a young lad abducted & murdered for personal sociopathic pleasure, & what lay inbetween who knows? Imo the door was opened first by a father who ill-abused 2 wives, emotionally anyway. With the latter wife, his negligence of yardworkers, gutter cleaning, etc, and tight fisted money habits, opened the door to her independently hiring skackey characters such as RSE on the cheap, exposing the children to shady characters without the man of the house to manage them. My husband is like KH wrt to upkeep. The new family next door, well husband (a wimpy schoolteacher) neveetheless interfaces with & hires all household laborers. He told me he always gets several bids. I used to do that newly married before I got tired & competence is enough for me now. The difference in household upkeep between our homes, as to pricing & outcomes, is dramatic when a man handles the gutters & yard contractors. It’s like how an el ed Principal looks out for a kid when only the wife appears vs when that 1,000 an hour lawyer sits down in his office (wrt class placement, play parts, etc).
    Ditto apparently with the Hormans’ social lives. They both appear to have issues. Bio Mother simply was into her own life imo.

  48. Rose says:

    @Blink. wrt “Doesn’t this egregious response necessitate a conversation about what Kaine said to Baby K about Kyron?” If he can’t tell Vinh what he initially told, and now tells, Kitty wrt Kyron her brother, AND Mother, AND James her brother, he is or should be toast.

  49. Rose says:

    And “I need to think about it” won’t cut it.

    Maybe he has an expressive language &/or word
    finding disability. Maybe he has Aspergers. But
    even if he has neurocognitive or language
    issues, he was prepared incorrectly by his attorney
    for the depo, or he doesn’t trust his attorney & thinks he’s smarter
    (but given how often Engel answered for him I don’t think
    so), or he is unwilling to state simple truths.

  50. Mom3.0 says:

    Blink thank you for your responses to my posts you have given me much to think over and it will take me awhile to process it all- it did not fall on deaf ears.

    RE T. Ruth says:
    December 12, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    Just a refresher for Mr. Horman’s failing memory:
    ——-

    Hey TRuth
    respectfully, I dont think any of those quotes speak to Kaines “failing memory” or to his speaking in circles-

    Unlike terri we have a myriad of different quotes of kaines to mull over not just a few

    I think all of the quotes illustrate how kaine
    loved his wife, missed his wife, struggled with believing she had something to do with the MFHP and Kyrons disappearance… I think despite it all, even the sexting and the pics, he still loved his wife he may still love her today- he may still have his doubts.

    on some days his doubts may be more subdued and I think LE steered his thinking- it remains to be seen if LEs steering lead him astray or if they were on the right track–

    Again we dont know what he knows or how he knows it-

    and I dont think it speaks to parenting if he says he can not pinpoint a time when Kitty ever came right out and said specifically My moms dead- she may have no idea of death-

    and the truth is as an 18month old she may have had no recollection of her Mom or of Ky or of James- and if Kaine did not speak of them or the situation directly- thios may not have changed, she may have never asked…. Is she likely to now that she is older? yes- but I know many toddlers and young children who never speak of their “missing” parent/sibling loved one- and some only when they reach a certain stage. we cant know if Kitty asked or if she didnt….

    personally, I would not fault Kaine for not bringing up the situation with his baby or toddler, as many people struggle with speaking of this sort of situation especially with children so young- and since this isnt an issue with an easy answer… with Ky and with Terri and all of the unknowns and the GJ and and the rest so much is unknown and cant be discussed

    LE says Mom was involved in MFHP and involved possibly part of disappearance…etc etc… should Kaine have told her that? No so perhaps in his mind to NOT discuss the situation was better…

    Was it better to not know anything No…
    Should he have sought a professional counselors opinion on how to discuss the situation with Kitty? Yes
    AJMO Peace

    PS adding this thought
    I believe Kaine was having such a hard time answering directly in the depos because so much time as passed and he can no longer separate what he knows or thought independently from what LE was telling him or advising him.

    Honestly I find it kindof unfair to call for CPS- or pick apart kaine for speaking to the best of his ability on Terry and HIS parenting strengths/weaknesses- while terri exerts her 5th amendment right not to self incriminate

    and about his taking an online parenting test… why do some seem fine with terri being mum- or having an expert testify for her in a general way and only submitting to partial MH evaluations etc.?

    - I mean to compare that online test to what Powell must have passed but to disregard the same or greater risk when speaking of Terri a poss. POI and her sidestepping evals etc is …again unfair

    Thanks for reading
    AJMO
    Peace

RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI

Leave a comment