Blink On Crime Kyron Horman Investigation Exclusive: DeDe Spicher Interview Yields Allegations Of Illegal Steroid Use Terri Horman Took To Police

A Blink On Crime Exclusive: DeDe Spicher speaks for the first time about her ordeal in the Kyron Horman investigation- continued  ©

S. Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief- Blink On Crime

DeDe Spicher and Terri Moulton Horman

 

In the first part of blinkoncrime.com’s exclusive interview with DeDe Spicher,  she revealed that after over 3 years of attempting to provide Multnomah County Sheriffs Office as well as Assistant Deputy Attorney Norm Frink with the necessary information they requested to clear her from any suspicion in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Skyline second grader Kyron Horman; she has finally been cleared after passing a polygraph as part of her requirement under an immunity deal that has been sealed with the court.  Unofficially cleared, that is.

Spicher and her attorney Chad Stavley,  who have since refused all local media requests,  would very much like the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office and current District Attorney Rod Underhill to clear her officially and publicly.

Spicher is adamant that law enforcement never had any reason to question her statements to them from the beginning, has cooperated fully for over three years and recently testified before the grand jury to prove she had nothing to hide.  While she would like the public to know that any assertions to the contrary are untrue, and sometimes have been offered maliciously,  her desire to speak out about her experience over the last three years is primarily to force investigative resources to review it’s progress- and hopefully adjust in a way to further leads in Kyron’s case.

As was proven not only by her recent polygraph,  but also by the verification that no evidence ever existed to support investigator’s theory in the first place,  Spicher had no information about anyone’s potential involvement in Kyron’s disappearance, let alone her own.

The continuation of our interview, which provoked some very interesting revelations long felt to be a possibility by many, was confirmed by Ms. Spicher  as she says- told to her by Terri Moulton Horman are prompting new possible theories in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Kyron Horman.  Two days after Kyron Horman’s eleventh birthday.

Stoy: So, in your estimation then,  why do you think that detectives Herron and Kravfe were so sure that you were involved or knew who was.

Spicher:  I have thought about this a lot, and I think there were a few reasons.  I think because I was advised through a meeting Terri had with a family friend and attorney that she should assume that all of her communication was being monitored by law enforcement and anyone she had contact with.  He told her to assume the house was bugged as well as vehicles, etc.  I also believe you did an article a while back that pointed out her phone was in Kaine’s name.   As this was a day or two after she was served with the restraining order,  she was also told that

Stoy (interrupting): You bought a prepaid phone after June 28th and never had one before that?  I had read that you or someone else purchased them the day of or the day after Kyron’s disappearance.

Spicher: No.  I purchased one prepaid phone, after Terri shared the info from her meeting, in my own name, either June 29th or 30th.    I think they were hung up on the fact that I came to her aid with no contact for so long so they just were convinced there had to be.

Stoy: ok, sorry, continue.  So you are not saying that LE was suggesting that you were hiding some other number you had and that was how they were alleging that you HAD to have been in contact with Terri or some other person prior to and on June 4th and that escalated your “poi” status in your opinion?

Spicher:  They did not say that to me specifically, but what they repeated over and over again, was that Terri and I had to have had some form of communication we were hiding.  It never made any sense to me because I knew I only had my cell that I had forever until the end of June,  and I knew I had not been in contact with Terri since her 40th birthday party in March.  So I would ask- well then I guess that means that you don’t have any contacts you can’t verify from either of us so why am I even in this “interview”?

To my recollection they never shared with me or answered any of my questions in response when something they kept hounding me about seemed absurd and conflicting with their theory.

Stoy: Which was?

Spicher: At first,  I think that they really believed I was involved,  and at some point I think they were talking more “accessory after the fact” because I got the impression ( although they did not share it with me) that Terri’s cell phone activity that day was nowhere near where I was,  and my vehicle never left, nor did I.  They would not verify that they located the ceramics/glassware artist [pottery artisan] I told you about and still have not.

Stoy: So in your opinion, you were clearly the linchpin of this case,  they [LE] believed you held the key to solving it and/or implicating Terri exclusively at that point, they no longer entertained your involvement per se?

Spicher: I honestly don’t think I could say that I ever believed that they stopped treating me as some sort of suspect.  I never felt that way,  but yes, absolutely they 100% believe that Terri is responsible and I definitely believed we all had to be interviewed and scrutinized or whatever,  but I really thought up until the meeting with Norm Frink that they [LE] would abandon that theory quickly because if they were positive I was the key, and I knew I was not, that would also eliminate Terri, who I did not and do not believe, but have no proof, was involved or knew anything.

Stoy: Right, so if you had nothing, and they felt you were the only nexus, it had to mean that they had no independent evidence of anything or anyone else so they would start in another direction?

Spicher: Right, but every interaction I had with them following and including the request to participate in the sting against her, made me believe they never did.  To get back to the why question you asked me- my final thought on that is that they kept pointing out that I was the person to tell everyone not to speak to them without attorneys in the beginning.    I would ask like who do you mean,  because that would have been my opinion across the board for any situation, but it was definitely based on what was getting out about how they were going about this.  I was scared and it turned out it was good reason.   I also would point out to them that I did not think that was or should be the basis for suspicion because if it was, it seemed to me that I was told that several staff members at Skyline had hired counsel, and Kaine was the FIRST to have one between he and Terri and I had told her at least a week or so before that she should.

Stoy: Why do you think she did not immediately take your friendly advice?  Your Dad was LE, and I presume she knew that.  People can say what they want, but I know many members of law enforcement in different jurisdictions and agencies.  I have worked with them or contributed analysis to cases with them privately [I cannot and would not ever include that in anything I choose to write on] and I can tell you that I do not know one of them that if they were the focus of a criminal probe or internal investigation they absolutely do not agree to an interview without a representative.  In fact,  Herron is or was the President of Mulnomah County Police Union or was, if I recall correctly.  So to that end, I find that a pretty hypocritical reason for suspicion of anyone.

Spicher: (laughs) Interesting.  I am not sure that I knew that. The reason Terri didn’t get an atty before the RO was because she was told by LE that if she did, she wouldn’t be privvy to any of their investigative discoveries, she would be out of the loop in finding Kyron.

Stoy: Have you had a desire or opportunity to review any sort of past events regarding the MCSO, I guess I should add, that involve anyone in this case or investigation you have had contact with?

Spicher: No,  do you mean like any other detectives or that sort of thing?

Stoy: Have you ever met with or been interviewed with any other agencies or detectives?

Spicher:  I believe I either met or just said hello to the guy you mentioned in that recent article of yours while he was at the house.  Both Kaine and Terri were there at the time as well.

Stoy: Bobby O’Donnell?

Spicher: That’s it,  yes, him.  Why did you ask me if I am aware of any sort of events- should I be?

Stoy: Well, I think that tangentially if I were you I would be considering just about everything as it related to what you have been through,  and I am aware of some what I will refer to as “stuff” but what I don’t want to do prior to the completion of our interview process is temper any of your responses with anything I know peripherally if that’s ok with you.  If you wish, once I publish the continuation which will have that sort of information,  I would invite you to comment on it for the record if you choose- are you ok with that?

Spicher: yes, that’s fine and probably a good idea.

Stoy: back briefly to the “sting request against Terri- On that issue- the request they extended to you outside the presence of your attorney and that they asked you not to tell Chad, as you think back ,  considering you have had no communication with Horman for over three years did you believe they thought it would work?  What did your attorney say when you told him?

Spicher: I can’t and won’t address any conversations I have had with my attorney,  but to answer your question as to my opinion,  I really don’t know for sure, I knew that I did not, and thought it was really, really odd- that was my first reaction.  After more thought,  and other conversations,  I don’t see how they thought it would work, or why they were still seemingly convinced after I had just passed the poly, etc, Terri was still their suspect and responsible.   What is your opinion on it?

Stoy:  I think I may reserve my thoughts on that for my piece.  Again, not wanting to temper your opinions  as we move along here and I think that could happen if I did.  Is that ok with you?

Spicher: Sure, thank you.

Stoy: I would like to move on to another subject for discussion.  I would just like to confirm for the record that I have never prior to this interview, asked you any questions about your potential knowledge of steroid use by yourself, or by Terri or Kaine Horman.  Is that correct?

Spicher: Correct, ok.

Stoy: Did they ask you this?

Spicher: Who is they?  You got a lot of pronouns flying around (laughs).

Stoy: Fair point, you’re right.  The good news is, as English, or should I say proper English is my second language (laughs) I use an copy editor.  Allow me to rephrase please.  Did anyone in law enforcement at any time ask you about steroids or other illegal injectable supplements sometimes used in weight training or body building in your interviews in this case?

Spicher:  Your question was did they [le] ask me anything about steroids or anything injectable ever?

Stoy: (laughs) now who’s throwing around the pronouns?

Spicher: (laughs) touche’ .  I was asked about it very vaguely in the beginning, I told them I had never used them, that I did not believe Terri ever did because she and I had similar views against using them and while we were on different supplement regimens when I was training for a marathon in 2008 I still remembered her to be knowledgeable about legal and effective nutritional supplements. I had no reason to believe she had ever used any kind of steroids.  I can’t say conclusively she never did but it would shock me.

Stoy: Why shock you?

Spicher: Because a few years back I recall Terri telling me that Kaine was what she referred to as “juicing”  and that his behavior had become very aggressive and well,  impatient or overeactive with the kids and she had discussed it with him and he ignored her.

Stoy: So for the record, when you say juicing you are referring to illegal steroids, not my Omega specials I make, correct?  That was the only question they ever asked you and did not ask any follow up questions like how long ago, etc, etc.  And so would you characterize the way law enforcement asked that question and their reaction to your response as disinterested, or having nothing to do with the case?

Spicher: I was never asked about Kaine’s use of steroids by either detectives or the grand jury.  But yes, that is what she told me.  I actually had forgotten all about it until she refreshed my recollection when I stayed there with her.  To the best of my memory I was asked just what I said, I answered as I just said and was never asked any follow up question nor was it mentioned again to me by law enforcement .  I don’t think I ever really understood what they did or did not think in terms of my information was important to the case,  but yes,  they were disinterested from my perspective as to it was the only time I was ever asked about it over the course of three and a half years and so my assumption is they still are.  But that is my assumption.

Stoy:  Understood, you are referring to the time you stayed at the Horman home late June 2010 through early July 2010 following Kaine’s  service of the restraining order and her exclusive use of the home?  Spicher:  I am not sure about the exclusive use part,  I didn’t really know anything about how that sort of thing worked and I think for some reason I want to say Terri was not allowed to show anyone.

Stoy: Ok.  Tell me everything you know about that. But, I would like you to see if you can provide me your recollection from what you were told about steroid use PRIOR to your conversations about it that refreshed your memory.  By the way, who else knows about this, if you know.

Spicher: Terri’s attorney Stephen Houze.

Stoy:  How would you know that?

Spicher: Because I helped her load them up, what appeared to me to be syringes in a box and deliver it to her attorney’s office, she said, at his request.   She also located some cancelled checks for what she said was Kaine’s payment for steroids.  I don’t remember who they were made out to but it was not to cash.

Stoy: ok,  understood,  we will get back to that.  I want to try and focus on what she told you those “few years back.”  Do you recall what year, even ballpark.

Spicher:  I want to say, but can’t be sure, it was after her competition in 2005,  and I am tempted to say it was around the time they got married or shortly thereafter- I am just not going to be much help in remembering this if you are asking me to extract what I remembered from then on my own.

Stoy: Nope, that’s what I am asking, your fine,  I don’t want to lead you but let me ask you a few things that may help.  Do you remember where you were during the conversation.

Spicher: I remember it was either the one and only time I ever had lunch with Terri, or it was during a time she called my cell,  Terri had a lot of drama,  and so I was in a Home & Garden Show class and I recall I was saying things out loud to let he know I was not free to talk really or respond as she was talking, so I was saying things like… I don’t know,  we should probably touch base on that when I am done here, or sounds good that we chat on it later.

Stoy: The brush up the other party is not getting, like that?

Spicher:  Yes, she was not getting it and so I was kind of 50% paying attention.  It was either during that call or at the lunch.  Other than that, I am not remembering the timing so well.

Stoy: But you would say a few years before Kyron went missing so based on that 2007 or 2008? Do you remember if they were married at the time?

Spicher: Again, we were friends for a good number of years but not close friends, I almost felt like if she was calling me or talking to me about it she had no other option at the time.

Stoy: Got it.  What did she say

Spicher:  She said that Kaine had been aggressive with her and impatient with the children and she attributed that to his “juicing”.  She confronted him and she felt he did not listen to her.  She told me that she then called a detective and turned in Kaine’s seller.  The member at the gym, I used to know the name but I really can’t recall because I was in the early morning crowd and this guy was more afternoon, I presume when they were there or they saw him.  I had stopped going to the same gym as them ater the first year or two I met them there.

Stoy: So she called a detective to turn in the seller Kaine was buying steroids from?  Wasn’t she concerned about the fact that buying them is also illegal and that Kaine could face charges?

SPicher: She told me that she contacted a detective and said she would be willing to turn over information about someone selling steroids but only if she could do so anonymously and without saying who was buying them, etc.

Stoy: So it was your understanding that she was trying to work out a scenario that would stop Kaine’s use without him ever knowing it was her by turning in that person?  Sort of like…  she gets approval to remain anonymous,  she gives the tip and then one day comes home and says… “Hey honey, guess what I heard at the gym.. you better stop that or you could be arrested for it, etc?

Spicher: Yes, something like that.  Except and again,  we have discussed it at one or both these occasions, but that did not work out.  The detective called her again directly and she was upset that there was further contact.  From what I recall,  I think that was the tone of what she was telling me.

Stoy: Understood,  so you are thinking that it may have been why she was sort of wired about it and not hearing you try to go about your day,  but insisting and venting like she was upset by it.

Spicher: Yes,  I think so.

Stoy: Do you think she could have called you because your Dad was law enforcement and she might need that sort of advice.  I don’t think so because she did not ask for any.  So then what?  Did Kaine find out?

Spicher: I just remember there was some sort of investigation of the guy,  and I really don’t know if Kaine ever found out about it or knows to this day.   If the seller or anyone was arrested or anything else at the time I do not remember,  that was how much I paid attention to it then until Terri reminded me of it.

Stoy: Ok.  Now, why is it that Terri was discussing it with you when you were staying at the house with her in your view?

Spicher:    Because after the restraining order was served and I guess she realized where Kaine was headed,  it was sort of like- if he was going to badmouth her, in her estimation it was false, but anyway, that Kaine had skeletons in his own closet sort of thing.   She told her lawyer [Houze] and she said he instructed her to bring the syringes and the cancelled checks to his office.   We did.

Stoy: So was Terri saying that Kaine was using steroids behind her back and she found this or that she knew and was having sort of the same reaction as last time, or she just learned once he was out of the home or what?  Was she suggesting this to you like it had something to do with Kyron’s disappearance?

Spicher:  I got the impression she did not know, or at least did not know when the last time he was using them was, but it gets fuzzy for me there because it is my belief up until the time the RO was served,  in my opinion she would have tried to protect Kaine from le finding out so I don’t know if she told le,  but it would surprise me.  Terri was always very family centric.  She would protect her family unit, and that is why she did the turning in thing,  this would seem the same to me until he made those murder for hire allegations.

Stoy: So did you get the impression from her that she thought that her allegation of Kaine’s steroid use had anything to do with Kyron’s disappearance?

Spicher: No, not at all.

Stoy: Nothing like, maybe this happened as some sort of retribution against her for turning someone in previously or against Kaine if they thought he was involved because after all she says he was the one buying it back then?

Spicher: No, she told me she had no idea who was responsible for Kyron’s disappearance or why, and the only possibility she came up with after the fact because of his past behavior and the fact that he showed up at her door demanding $10,000 she had no idea what he was talking about, that it was the landscaper.   He was the only person acting like a criminal at the time.

Stoy: Have you ever seen a text of hers involving the custody situation after the fact, after the Rudy Sanchez Estrada “sting”  and she called police twice that day/evening that ended with “mark 1 for the FBI.”

Spicher: I may have, if I did I don’t remember it specifically.

Stoy: She specifically said the FBI,  who has only ever assisted in this case, and who has no jurisdictional presence in Kyron’s case, I was just wondering if you had any thoughts on that.

Spicher: No, I don’t have any idea what she meant.

Is it possible that illegal steroid use or sales and the recent public outing there was an ongoing Federal Investigation with the emphasis on police and gym members that included persons familiar to the Horman’s  contributed to the circumstances involving the disappearance of Kyron Horman?

Has it been excluded by having more law enforcement investigating themselves?

 

Roid Rumors and Boys In Blue.. Coincidence Or Clue?

It is no secret that Oregon has seen it’s share of corruption allegations in recent years.  The very public and very disturbing account of it’s Governor Neil Goldschmidt’s involvement with a 14 year old girl earned Willamette Week’s Nigel Jaquiss a Pulitzer in 2005 for breaking the story a year earlier.  As a strong argument for the trickle down effect,  Goldschmidt’s former driver Bernie Giusto- who became the Multnomah County Sheriff following the debacle,  was forced to resign his position when a State agency declared they would be removing his police certifications due to his lack of “moral fitness” outlined in the now infamous Giusto Report.   A former Sheriff,   Bob Skipper, was then appointed to take his place, but after two attempts could not pass the required certifications.  The current Multnomah Sheriff Dan Staton, who has since won an election, was appointed in his place.  Several current MCSO officers assigned to Kyron’s case were interviewed for the Giusto report.

In fact,  Bobby O’Donnell was the lead investigator in Kyron’s case for the first 18 months who according to his own words in his interview was the unfortunate subject of an allegation involving his own very messy divorce.

MCSO Sgt Brett Ritchie stated in a police interview that O’Donnell was seen waving a gun and threatening his life [Ritchie] after he began dating O’Donnell’s ex wife. Laura O’Donnell was granted a restraining order against him that later became an agreement between the couple.

The lead investigator in the case of a missing child openly threatened a ranking officer and that incident was never investigated outside of Ritchie being told to stay away from O’Donnell.   O’Donnell’s deposition and his motion to quash it are the subject of a hearing scheduled for Friday September 13, 2013.

There is no question the agency tasked with the investigation into the disappearance of Kyron Horman has had several and more recent embarrassing entanglements.

In another investigative piece by the Willamette Week,  it exposes the egregious overtime paychecks that members of the prosecutors and investigators assigned to Kyron’s case have received during the early months following Kyron’s disappearance.

It is unclear how Multnomah County ever had jurisdiction in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance. According to the Skyline School’s filed safety and response plan,  the Portland Police Bureau is the agency of record.

Multnomah County’s former woes might have paled a bit in comparison if only by the difference a year makes to public memory, to that of their fellow neighboring officers in Canby, located in Clackamas County.

After several investigations into the selling and possible use of anabolic steroids  a Canby Police officer, which were repeatedly stalled due to his caption  tipping other’s off  in the alleged ring ,  Officer Jason Deason was arrested along with Canby Landscape Supply Owner William Traverso,  Brian Casey Paul Jackson were arrested.  The investigation was believed to be ongoing and Traverso, Deason and Jackson all cut deals for quick prison stints that shocked fellow officers and the public alike.   The specifics of which were sealed by the court.  It is now known that the Federal Bureau of Investigation continued to require the ongoing cooperation of it’s criminals turned informants to pursue federal indictments against possible targets in law enforcement and members of the bodybuilding set- to include acquaintances of Kaine and Terri Horman.

Presuming the confirmed allegations are true- is it possible that ‘a few years back’ Terri Horman unwittingly set off a state turned Federal investigation into the buying, using and selling of human growth hormone and anabolic steroids?  How could this be connected, if it is, to the timing of Kyron’s disappearance even if she had?

“… Jackson,   through a plea deal on state charges in 2009 where he admitted to selling anabolic steroids to Canby police officers in uniform, had been working with the FBI on an ongoing investigation when they confronted him with the knowledge that he was found deceptive on a polygraph designed to indicate if Jackson’s participation was far more extensive then he originally admitted to…”

“…Jackson, with his attorney, began cooperating with federal authorities shortly after his arrest.  He identified his source for steroids as Vancouver resident Rainbow “Bo” Wild Keepers, 39, a competitive bodybuilder and photographer. Agents ran Keepers’ name in federal databases and discovered that an Arizona man had tipped off the Drug Enforcement Administration years ago that Keepers was his source of steroids. Keepers was never charged…”

 On June 3rd, 2010,  approximately 24 hours before Kyron Horman’s disappearance,  Jackson was arrested on a Federal warrant following a sealed indictment issued the day before after failing a polygraph and refusing to help the FBI further.

From the Indictment:

Between June 2, 2005 and May 2008, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials B.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury,  in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).

 

It has since been revealed that the initials BW stand for Bradley Worden.  Worden owns a few businesses, all relating to wholesale gym equipment or nutritional products.  Worden has never been charged.

 Between June 2006 and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials N.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).

 

The identity of the person with initials NW is unknown.

 

Between June 2, 2005, and December 2007,: in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule illcontrolled substances, to a person with the initials G.P., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and

841(b)( 1)(E).

 

The identity of the person with the initials G.P is unknown.

 

Between June 2, 2005, and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule III controlled substances, to a person with the initials S.B., whose full name is known  to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and 84l(b)(1)(E).

 

The initials S.B. refer to Steve Beaudoin,  a former work associate of Jackson’s and current Oregon State safety officer.

 

According to assistant U.S. Attorney Jane Shoemaker, Jackson sold Beaudoin at least 50 pills of the steroid Winstrol, an injectable steroid called Deca Durabolin, Sustanon and, in June 2007, 100 pills of Anavar on one to two occasions. Shoemaker also said Jackson sold Beaudoin $500 worth of human growth hormone. Investigators discovered the sales through witness interviews and Jackson’s computer records, Shoemaker said.

 

 

From Buff To Puff

 

In contrast to Jackson,  although Traverso also sold to Deason and other members of law enforcement,  William ‘Jake’ Traverso, a former competitive bodybuilder and “Mr. Oregon”  cooperated extensively with the FBI by identifying other law enforcement officers he sold steroids to, and got a lenient sentence of 15 days in jail, 30 days home detention and 24 months probation, with no federal charges.

In a letter submitted to a Clackamas County judge Monday, FBI Special Agent Christopher Frazier said that Traverso has discussed his drug distribution activities in detail. “The public safety employees identified by Traverso included law enforcement officers, corrections officers, fire and rescue personnel and university public safety officers,” Frazier wrote,  “Several spin-off FBI public corruption investigations were initiated as a result of these allegations, and are ongoing.”

 

Traverso, Deason and Jackson were cooperating with the Feds simultaneously, and in a very public way.  Although Deason had been similarly employed by the Canby Police under Chief Greg Kroeplin, at least one of the raids on Traverso- Deason’s client,  was by Deason’s Canby fellow officer James Murphy.

 

John Hingson, Traverso’s attorney and past commentator on the Horman case,  sparred with then ADA Norm Frink as well.  Hingson unearthed the report that included Murphy had been demoted following Deason’s arrest and his credibility was called into question.  Murphy worked the graveyard shift with Deason.  The report also revealed that both Deason and Officer James Murphy, who was one of the few to initiate an investigation into Deason’s steroid abuse, were put at risk when they were scheduled to work side by side as the only two officers on that shift.

“…Hingson obtained a 2009 report written by private detectives the City of Canby had hired to investigate the steroid scandal. Among their findings: Murphy had been demoted from detective to officer for alleged dishonesty…”

Chief GregKroeplin resigned prior to release of a scorching memo outlining the city’s findings they had outsourced properly to two retired Oregon detectives, which would have resulted in his termination.

Murphy, still employed by Canby Police, is apparently looking to renew the agencies stint for bad press.

 

On October 13, 2011, six months after former Willamette Week journalist James Pitkin featured his Lord of The Flies article outlining Murphy’s internal investigation led to his demotion for dishonestly, he arrested a freelance sports reporter while taking pictures of him exiting the Canby Police Headquarters on duty and entering his personal vehicle.

Andrew Millbrooke  filed a Federal lawsuit in 2012 against The City of Canby,  Officer James Murphy and his captain Bret Smith  for excessive force and wrongful arrest which took place after Murphy used his cruiser to follow Millbrooke who was on foot.   In a police report from another officer in the case, Millbrooke tells him he is a freelance journalist trying to expose corruption and drug use by Officer Murphy.  The suit is pending.  A review of the declarations by both Mr. Smith and Mr. Murphy do not include the details of the investigative report commissioned by The City Of Canby discussing Mr. Murphy’s prior demotion.  Mr. Murphy also had a recent court decision regarding improper procedure [See Bonneau].

 

With pending motions to release the employment files of some Canby police officers to include Murphy, the charges against  Traverso were dismissed  this past May due the state delaying the case over 23 months.

Traverso, Deason and Jackson are all currently on probation.  Traverso is awaiting trial on recent charges involving watermelon theft.

As the Federal Bureau of Investigation is listed as an investigative partner to MCSO in the Kyron Horman investigation, it is their policy not to release files where they are not the lead agency of record or during an ongoing criminal investigation .

Requests for comment from Kaine Horman through his attorney Brett Engel regarding the allegations that he has either purchased or sold  illegal steroids have not been returned at the time of this publication.

However, in an article published to include a quote from Kaine Horman it seems that Kaine confirms Ms. Spicher’s assertion that Terri Horman did not use illegal steroids,  but rather nutritional supplements and had moved past those very quickly after her bodybuilding competition.

“…Kaine said he noticed a sharp shift in her behavior, saying she became self-centered and short-tempered.

“She’s not eating a lot of food, she’s exercising twice a day, she’s up at 4 o’clock in the morning, she’s not sleeping at night so we get just general irritable behavior towards everyone around her,” he said.

He said she consumed over-the-counter stimulants, such as fat burners, in high doses. In four months between January and April, she shed 62 pounds, dropping from 185 to 123 pounds, he said.

At the end of April, with her muscles bulked up and skin glistening with a bronze tan, she competed in the Emerald Cup bodybuilding competition in Bellevue, Wash…”

S.Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief, www.blinkoncrime.com was able to independently confirm Ms. Spicher’s account of alleged steroid use and ensuing investigation of a gym member as told to her by Terri Horman.

The source,  an associate of Terri Horman, DeDe Spicher and Kaine Horman who declined to be identified, went on to say that at the time it was “… really common knowledge who was using steroids and who was selling them…”   “… was not aware previously that Terri Horman claimed to have instigated contact with law enforcement to turn in the seller…”  The source declined to identify the seller and could not say for certain if he was charged and likely would not away- given the request not to disclose the source’s name on the record.

Reached for comment,  Terri Moulton Horman Attorney Stephen Houze declined to comment based on his policy of not speaking publicly when a client has pending legal matters.

A request for comment to Mr. Bunch,  Terri Horman’s divorce attorney has not been returned by the time of this publication.

 

More Questions Than Answers..

Following several hours of interviews with  DeDe Spicher, the woman who was not a close friend to Terri Horman but ultimately was the closest to her in the early days of the investigation- are we left with more questions than answers about what could have happened to the little boy whose 11th birthday was 2 days ago?

Spicher concedes that anything she discussed as told to her by Terri Horman in some minor instances may only be verifiable by Horman herself- and she is not talking… Yet.

She also points out that ultimately everything she told me she shared with investigators as far as “truthfulness” was confirmed by a polygraph – to include the question “Was she withholding any information from investigators?”

She was not.

Although limited, Spicher’s accounts in many instances confirm sparse information heard early on from Terri herself.  Not the least of which was that although widely criticized for not speaking out publicly, she was told by investigators not to under any circumstances- and when she broached the possibility of retaining counsel was told that she would then be cut off from any information as to the investigation process to find Kyron Horman.

Through Spicher,  Horman also confirmed that out of concern for Horman’s “spacieness”  which she defined by walking into a room and staring off, not remembering, etc,  Terri Horman called his pediatrition Thursday June 3rd and made an appointment for Friday June 11th.  His last day of school. Horman also told Spicher that Kyron had wondered off or got lost while in his teacher Ms. Porter’s care once before when following a fellow student out of class.

Initially, prior to learning Kyron had been marked absent not very long after she left the building, that was Horman’s first thought.  Those hopes grew into panic with that revelation that he had been missing for hours.

 

Spicher says Terri was adamant that she never had a sexual relationship with the now infamous landscaper Rudy Sanchez Estrada  Spicher agrees that her friend had the propensity to be flirtatious but she never knew her to be sexually promiscuous.  Outside of the fact that she says at Kaine’s request to occasionally include an additional female in the bedroom,  to which Spicher declined, she was not aware that the Horman’s had a swinger lifestyle.

To her knowledge,  there were other women that were asked to participate in a threesome with the couple that did not say no some years ago, but had no current knowledge and she herself was never involved with Horman sexually.

In her take, the addition of a 3rd female was an expression of control on Kaine’s part in the relationship.

 

Terri explained the landscapers “sexual accosting” , previously reported exclusively by www.blinkoncrime this way:

“… She said she had Kitty on her hip and he came up behind her and was kissing her neck and put his arm around her and when she verbally resisted with concern that Kitty was in her arms he sort of grabbed her and she spun around and broke free…”

 

Spicher adds that on more than one occasion she tried to bring that up during meetings with DA Norm Frink and investigators.  One one occasion, as suggested by her Father, a former Klamath County Marine Officer,  at their own expense  The Klamath County Sheriff and his first lieutenant had  agreed to meet with Frink, Spicher and her father on DeDe’s behalf to sort of provide character backgrounds and family history he felt would be helpful in clearing her.

“…  This came up in the first interview I had with Mr Frink and I told him she had made that call. Later in the interview when he was trying to push more of my buttons, he tells me that call never happened (implying Terri had lied to me). I told him okay, that’s what you’re telling me, but I recall it differently (implying he was lying to me right then). He got very angry about that and insisted it was “fact”. I said okay, whatever. Much later, like one of the last times I met with Mr Frink, the Klamath County Sheriff and his 1st Lieutenant flew up on their own dime to meet with Mr Frink & Keith Krafve to see if they could help by offering their opinion of my character, and that it didn’t seem unusual to them at all that I would go help Terri, that it is very consistent with how my family has always been. At that meeting, I retold the story of Rudy sexually accosting Terri (her words), but said I wasn’t sure about the 911 call. That totally infuriated Mr Frink. I told him I was trying to believe him and simply not certain about what I could remember on that point.

 

The DAs office behaved very strangely toward the Klamath Co Sheriff and his Lt. They tried everything they could to keep us separated and even insisted that they (the DAs office) drive them back to the airport, despite the fine fact that we (Dad & I) had picked them up and brought them in, and would definitely be seeing them again in the near future. It was just weird, to all of us…”

 

I asked DeDe if she used the term called 911 in every exchange.  She had.  I asked her if she got the impression that the reason Frink was so sure it never happened was because there was no 911 call on the record about it – could it be that maybe she reached out to that former law enforcement person she contacted on the steroid issue and it was actually a dispatch call versus a trackable 911 call issue.

Spicher says she got the impression that Frink was suggesting that the “accosting” as described by her friend did not happen, but could not be sure except to say that Frink seemed to become irate when she brought it up on every occasion.  Spicher felt Sanchez Estrada was the only person behaving like a criminal and that supported the accounts she was given.

I asked DeDe if Terri mentioned ever paying Sanchez Estrada for work at the Horman home.  She said she did not recall Terri ever saying anything other than she had no idea what he was talking about when he came to the door and asked for $10,000 so she slammed the door in his face and called 911.

Stoy: So did she think it was some sort of extortion attempt now that she had mentioned him to investigators and they told her that they had interviewed him?

Spicher: She thought that he was dangerous from her past experience.

Stoy: Did you think it was odd that with a brand new John Deere tractor parked outside that TH was hiring a landscaper?  I was able to confirm through other sources that he cleared some blackberry or blueberry bushes similar to Ms. Von Klevelen,  and the tractor does not have a UCC lien on it, meaning it was not financed.

Spicher:  No, it wasn’t.  Kaine bought it.  It was Terri’s job to manage the inside of the house as well as the entire property.   I knew that when Kaine would travel he would come up with this project lists for her to complete by the time he got home.  I  mean, like cleaning the gutters,  cutting the grass, washing all the windows, that sort of thing.  To the best of my recollection Terri and Kaine did not have bank accounts together- he controlled everything he made.

Stoy: With a baby,  7 year old and teenager and hubby out of town? How was she managing that?  No wonder he was suggesting that she was pouring through money like water or something like that, she was probably hiring help.  I am not even sure I think a woman by herself at that property with a baby should be on the roof by herself anyway.

Spicher:  No,  Terri  had to pay any support money or whatever to the household expenses and I have surmised Kaine gave her some sort of allowance which she probably blew through pretty quickly on frivolous things like food and clothes for her children.  I have never known Terri to be frivolous with money.  I know of at least two times when the projects she was supposed to accomplish were impossible for her to manage.  One was the windows so I believe she hired someone that time and as I recall her parents paid for that.  I believe the other was the landscaper.

Stoy: Is it a fair question for me to ask how you feel about Kaine, from your tone I am sensing you are not a fan.

Spicher: I have tremendous compassion for Kaine- he lost his child- what can one even say about that?  But no, he is not someone I would want to be friends with today and I was cordial to him whenever I was around him but he was very controlling and was pretty mean to Terri about her weight from Kitty, things like that- I am not going to have anything in common with that.

Stoy:  Did Terri ever mention anything about conflicts with Desiree Young, whether they were between her and she or Kaine and Desiree?

Spicher: Not that I recall, but I also never heard her speak of Desiree negatively at any time previously or when I stayed with her [Terri].

Stoy: That is saying a lot because right after the sting Ms. Young was pretty accusatory pretty quickly- and I do note that was based on information from law enforcement.  Similar to some of the things both she and Kaine said publicly about you.  Are you angry about that?

Spicher:  O my no.  That poor woman is going through hell and acted on information that I was told, lie or not, was given to her and Kaine.  I have nothing but compassion for her and I wish I could shoulder some of her pain because I can..   I have nothing but compassion for all of Kyron’s parents and any anger I have over how I was treated, what I went through would never be directed at them.   I really pray that Kyron will be found,  I choose to put my energy into hope for that.

Pending Matters

Through Attorney Bunch,  Terri Horman makes the claim that both law enforcement and Kaine Horman have been perpetrating the dissemination of inaccurate information involving the circumstances of Kyron Horman’s disappearance.

In a recent filing, set for hearing this Friday,  Bunch pens a scathing reply to Deputy O’Donnell’s motion to quash, and accuses the county of improper ex parte communication.

Early this afternoon,  a source within the Multnomah County Courthouse speaking on the condition of anonymity has confirmed that on behalf of Multnomah County, a motion has been filed to limit certain documents or discoverable information related to Mr. Horman and Bobby O’Donnell of the MCSO.

A hearing is scheduled before Judge Kantor for this Friday September 13, 2013

 

 

Jacqueline Beaufort,  Ellie Sanders – research and contributing editors to this article.

Jason Mateos- contributing editor, copy.

 

 

Related Posts:

4,398 Comments

  1. Rose says:

    @Grasshopper. I too do not think Intel & its employees are
    involved with anything of a criminal nature (ie steroid selling or use)
    either formally or informally. However in any large organization,
    people with similar interests & lifestyles find each other, whether it’s the barhoppers
    or ducati cycle lovers. I imagine patrons
    of Intel’s gyms are as likely as in the general Portland gym population
    to access, use, and pass on steroids, or any other substance.

  2. T. Ruth says:

    Am I the only one who found it weird claimed not to know his supervisor’s “official” title, during his deposition? C’mon, why is that a question? He’s your boss, pretty much if you’re ever gonna’ move up the ladder, you’re gonna take his/her job…..right? So is Keith Kwasney somehow being protected by Kaine?

    IDK, but we’ve all been looking (well, most of us) for some connection to higher ups that are pulling strings. Like Rose, I think start here.

  3. Rose says:

    That is the sickest FB site I’ve seen in this case.
    A poster of Kyron’s World Soldiers, Roseburg FB, etc
    Judy Day commented, and a commment was made about a Sandy Less….
    So, it is Desiree’s same old chalk&stalk Krew who permeate
    FB with threats and hate speech.
    The Davidson sisters are in way over their heads imo.
    And she needs an advising attorney & qualified therapist asap.
    Spend gofundme for Counsel.

    I might suggest going the trademark route on that one. Would take about 5 minutes. I say if you can spend all your time bullying someone as the keyboard phantom, then one should be willing to actually stand behind their words with a name.

    I was sent a compilation of these “posters” backgrounds by actual name early this week, it was complete with backgrounds and associated names.
    B

    B

  4. vw says:

    Sam ….. i’m putting some drafts together, waiting for monday when I can find out more.

    But at Olive there is the partial depo of Rudy, as an addendum to the Response by Engels. Maxine’s article: be sure to click on the highlighted “in court records” as the other link to the landscaper goes nowhere.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/12/landscaper_says_terri_horman_w.html

  5. Rose says:

    TY for this interesting link Venetia: http://crimewatch.us/KDM.htm
    Imo anyone who looked at her websites & activities when Kaine
    hooked up with her & flew to Calif for an “award,” knew the shouldn’t be touched
    with a barge pole imo. The question us why didn’t he? He’s an IT professional &
    coukd’ve researched her. Again, these people seem to find each other.
    —–
    One thing when producing a Court report addressing custody, a cps worker looks at is not
    only who can protect the child, but who will. Concrete evidence of doing so in the
    past works, like Terri getting away from RSE when he attacked with Kitty on her hip.

    Kaine has had full custody. He is an IT professional. If he fails to protect Kitty from the owner
    of the Goodbye Kitty page, and the names such as Day posting on it, by making a police report, Making a FB report, Writing the Admin to close the site, & threatening legal action if it is not closed will demonstrate he lacks commitment to protect Kitty. The only reasonable explanation for all posts ceasing on the Alternate Theories page, & 2 unrelated posts having to be removed last summer after she ventured out again after a year, is most likely he has the capacity to do so.

  6. Rose says:

    @Blink. Imo Houze went into Kaine’s divorce parenting class with Desiree, showing in July 2010ff he knew all about the adverse effects of parental alienation, in order to ddmonstrate relying on “LE so advised me” wrt his parenting choices in terms of supervised visitation with Kitty by Mother was hot air. Hotter air is Counsel’s who should have advised him to act in his child’s best interests.

  7. Venetia says:

    Rose tells maybe? You know that no one could replace you Blink.

    Yes Venetia, it is my humble wish that there would be many to replace me, and that it was inspired here.

    Thank you kindly.
    B

  8. Amys Sister says:

    T Ruth asks: I guess my question is a legal one. Could a step-mom ever get custody of her step-child, when there are two bio-parents still around and deemed at the very least somewhat okay parents? What would be the circumstances that would ever be allowed?
    ____

    I know the answer to this… a big fat no, step would not ever get custody over birth parent unless relinquished by birth parent or state took child as a ward and gave custody to step.

    Respectfully AS, the answer to a legal question cannot be an opinion. Not unless you are a judge referencing your own, lol. I cited some case law early on regarding both step sibling and non-bio parental cases as it relates to Oregon family court- it is not likely, but in the words of kantor, it is unlike any other case. Regardless, the issue is perception. How is it relative if at all, and based upon what party’s understanding of the law?

    B
    ____

    Hi Blink. Yes, it’s opinion based on experience. The question was can a step get custody over two living bios. Our case went all the way to the supreme court and step parent custody, grandparent custody, birth parent custody, were all thoroughly researched with numerous cases and decisions referenced in the arguments. Additionally, the children involved had one mother, two fathers. While it was outside Oregon the referenced cases and decisions spanned many states.

    As you say, Blink, this case is different than any other but IMO I don’t see where Terri would have gotten custody of Kyron prior to his disappearance, or after.

    And, as I’m pondering this more, I actually can see how Terri might have perceived this as a threat to her getting custody of Kitty. As someone else mentioned, it may have played a role in her wanting Kyron to go live with Desiree. It could have played a role in her dislike of Kyron. She wanted to leave Kaine and take Kitty and she may in fact have perceived that Kyron was preventing a clean sweep of things.

    AJMO

  9. Rose says:

    It is my understanding & experience that Blink researches, with a staff; interviews all case-related persons who will agree to; obtains background; gets files; uses trained & experienced analysis; personally vets & scrubs all info and double sources; respects family (if not some behaviors); works with LE effectively where there is not a bunker mentality; consults with relevant experts, and so on. And is very mentally flexible & incisive. Moreover is a person of goodwill, and can teach the au currant trendy lingo.
    I’m just an armchair iphone with fond memories of my betters like beejay as well as so many still hanging in there on this site.

    Say vw, is it the norm, even with snow & electrical failures, as briefs likeky went home with Kantor, & a Lexis account can be accessed from home, for a Judge to have 2 weekends & a workweek before an “emergency” hearing actually happens? In my day an emergency hearing happened in cpsd the same day to be honest, walk in, like Kaine’s RO in Meis’ chambers. I would think 3 work days fair play in a divorce. But 2 weekends?

  10. grasshopper says:

    about that picture of the red-headed child on the Goodbye Kitty page, in CHROME browser… if you right click on a photo, it will bring a pull down… select ‘search google for this image’ and it will pull up the sources… All of the ones on that FB page are internet images, not of Kitty. I’m so relieved!

    FB strips EXIF data, I am not sure I would conclude that as a fact GH, but very responsible attempt to validate on your part.
    B

  11. vw says:

    Why in the world would Kaine or DY, for that matter, take steps to “protect” Kitty or even raise a doubt in the minds of these deluded fans who have overstepped into the lives of the bios. Those who stalk and defame anyone who does not worship the bios and go to bed telling Kyron how much they love him?
    They have, to us, stepped over the line years ago.

    But SG and SM are at the wall of hope, washing cars, ferreting notes to the “masses” from the bios. They are behind most of these pages and are the fundraisers of Kyron events and paypal fund me. In fact, if you reseach PayPal the majority of the funds are coming from them also. So they do the grunt work, and even if they live in trailors they give to Desiree, and Kaine, on a regular basis.

    More than just concern and support, this is obsession we are talking about. They don’t want information, they want the world to know that TMH killed Kyron and tried to kill Kaine and is evil.

    Kaine and Desiree need them. And use them.

    They all need therapy.

  12. vw says:

    Rose…wow…you’re on a roll today. Slow down…”The only reasonable explanation for all posts ceasing on the Alternate Theories page, & 2 unrelated posts having to be removed last summer after she ventured out again after a year, is most likely he has the capacity to do so.” I’m familiar with Alt.Theories. Had other issues. And summoning on-call minions can shut down or silence a FB page but harder to do so with a blog. Doubt Kaine would take the chance to possibly call attention to himself by trying to go tech with it.

  13. Rose says:

    obtaining a supervisor’s name was likely necessary as groundwork to subpoena him to depose & to testify to Intel’s telecommuting policies (ie when at home can one also primary parent?), expected hours on the job weekly for an employee with Kaine’s position, and also historical records (Kitty’s birth to June 2010) for Kaine’s actual work location as to campus or home, and travel records in the US & abroad for the job. (clocking in & out times on June 4 would be nice). Icing would be if Kaine patronized Calif businesses known to him on Kaine’s travels, and any personally observed Calif personal relationships.

  14. Albalass says:

    grasshopper says:
    December 13, 2013 at 10:01 pm
    not sure if Miss Bri said this or was quoting someone, but the question was if one picture on the Goodbye Kitty page was of Kiara. When I saw the picture of the little red-headed girl I wondered the same thing, and honestly it freaked me out. no idea if it is but if so that is even more acceptable than everything else.
    …………………………

    @GH – it was me asking about the photo. my comment below Miss Bri. if it is Kiara – I’m also left wondering where the photo came from. its not one I’ve ever seen before. I would like to hope nobody in the mix of this mess is handing out photos of the children.

  15. Venetia says:

    Blink – you’re welcome. Thanks for all the hard work you do on behalf of victims & families. And a big thanks for keeping us on the ‘fact-track.

    @Rose & all,

    Did you come across the letter to the attorney scam?

    http://www.scamwarners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=15164

    about 1/2 way down the hidden user is decloaked by
    Squirrel Mail of all things- never heard of that before.

    Googled this: SquirrelMail – Webmail for Nuts!

    Squirrels decloaking – may become trendy

  16. Rose says:

    Imo none of the pics are the Horman child as the FB page owner/Admin
    would falsely believe that insulated her from question by bio.

  17. Rose says:

    @vw. She was egregious accusatory of him.
    I believed he must’ve gotten an RO.

  18. grasshopper says:

    Albalass says, it was me asking about the photo. my comment below Miss Bri. if it is Kiara – I’m also left wondering where the photo came from. its not one I’ve ever seen before. I would like to hope nobody in the mix of this mess is handing out photos of the children.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I sure hope not! But K does take Kiara to fundraisers and maybe the picture was taken there by one of the “volunteers”. It’s really the red hair that makes me wonder. I know there are many red-headed girls around so I’m probably over-reacting but if T were to see this I’m sure it would break her heart, exactly what the cauldron wants.

  19. grasshopper says:

    another attempted abduction of 7 year old. this tie in Newport

    http://www.katu.com/news/local/Newport-man-accused-of-trying-to-abduct-girl-7-235816971.html

    2 million cash bail. Thanks for posting GH- do we think that it will help those who have TMH already nailed to the spit realize this is possible.

    B

  20. Amys Sister says:

    vw says:

    December 14, 2013 at 2:42 am
    ___

    Hot damn, lady, great post. And so true.

  21. erose says:

    One of the newspapers in Los Gatos is the San Jose Mercury News, and for some reason I cannot get links to post. If you google Carry Nations Los Gatos + bouncer, or Carry Nations Los Gatos + murder for hire, you will find some interesting news stories. This is the bar owned by a Keith Kwasney.

    The bouncer story to me read like someone on roids, and was interesting that the local cops initially dismissed it, and it took a campaign of sorts to even get it into the courts, which resulted in the acquittal of the bouncer for assault with a deadly weapon.

    The MFH story started in about 2008 and lasted 3+ years. It was perpetuated against a former Carry Nations bartender, who ultimately opened his own bar across from CN. I’ll bet MFH was a big topic discussed amongst Intel employees working under Keith.

    All JMO.

  22. Sammy says:

    I have question related to the discussion here of the newest incarnation of hate sites on FB … the one with pix of red headed little girl.

    On that same FB hate site — there are multiple posts that say things like … “Kitty’s NEW mommy is pretty” and “Kitty’s NEW Mom is nice” … etc.

    WTH is that about??
    Are these insinuations that Kaine has set-up housekeeping with the other woman – and that Baby K is (or is being encouraged to) call this woman her Mommy??
    Please tell me I’m reading that site incorrectly.
    If not … I am totally disgusted.

    I think it is completely intended to bully TMH and to seek attention for their creepy selves.

    If Kaine is or was co-habitating with a female and said person was operating in a caregiving role I can promise you that all interested parties would have been aware of that from the onset and it would be a part of the current proceedings and part of the evaluation.

    Without taking a specific look, it would also render some of his testimony or sworn affidavits false, which I highly doubt he is stupid enough to do. There is no way I believe that Kaine has baby K calling another woman “Mommy.” As you also know, I don’t believe much of what Kaine said during his last deposition and specifically the part about a nearly 5 year old child never asking about her Mother. I think HouzeofBunch gets their way tomorrow. If he was going to hide behind the ‘LE communication cloak” then LE will need to be forced to substantiate that position.

    A reminder- the email from Norm Frink to Messenheimer unsealing the RSE business opens this door.

    Lastly, I have said it before and I will say it again- the hater crater will ultimately help Terri in her custody suit, divorce, and what I believe to be civil actions.

    B

  23. grasshopper says:

    @erose, this an interesting little connection. MFH is a great accusation and difficult to disprove and a great story for the media to perpetuate (murder business). the whole RSE plan could have come from right here!

  24. NelMel says:

    oooooooookay. (NelMel reaches for some cold spaghetti as she stares at a blank wall)

    Lots of discussion in recent weeks about the Horman divorce and custody issues.

    In all of that, are clues (I think).

    Where’s Kyron?

    I personally do not believe he was murdered, although I do know that some people feel that is true.

    Let’s say that he’s still alive.

    How is that possible, why did that happen, and who, among all the
    hinky-ickies who know his parents, scooted him away?

    Who needed to teach who a lesson?

    Why did someone need to stop someone else?

    Which parent had a grudge, v. which parent was the target to appear as a bad parent?

    Which parent had the more stable, emotionally fit extended family?

    Which parent knew creepy people?

    Where’s my White-Out?

  25. Annie Oakley says:

    This may mean something. Scroll down to the part about THE NEW WORLD ORDER. 91186….and this number is relevant to a larger pattern of info.

    Is ths Kaine’s boss?

    http://www.welchco.com/sd/08/00101/02/97/07/28/140038.HTM#0001

  26. Seeker says:

    Thank you, erose, for posting the research regarding the Los Gatos MFH. Interesting that the price of the 2008 MFH was $9500.

  27. Rose says:

    Blonk, you think Kantor will let hater crater evidence into the divorce trial?
    Evaluating such material is not Dr Vinh’s field, and unless one has
    followed these moles & their permutations & outlets all along, it’s very hard to
    grasp the relevance & importance to Teeri or Kitty (who page is niw private.)

    How to show its relevance to get it in? Additionally, incidents must be specific.
    and the whole issue of this orchestration is it is so diffuse & diverse.

    As for Kaine, he can simply opine he doesn’t know how to screen out or
    return donations, and if these folks on their pages plead for holiday mail to
    him, activities at his gym shine, come to his events, and so on, it’s open space,
    or their FB space, & he can hardly stop them.

    Quite an assemblage of evidence against Moore as a scammer, Venetia, which didn’t we
    sense when KH flew to her banquet table. Poor KH, an innocent who keeps getting taken in by these
    women.

    –and they “o

  28. Rose says:

    …at his gym SHrine…

  29. Rose says:

    Echo …..where’s my White out? the correction tape?

  30. Rose says:

    I believed that site was a spoof.
    Until they took it private at some point since early yesterday.
    Therefore I now believe it to be another internal communication outlet,
    like the AntiTerri page, Roseburg wants T out page, Team Desiree 3 page,
    etc. Reminder, Borderlines “split” (are divisive), feel rage, feed on attention.
    The Kitty page is designed to be divisive, provoke attention, and allow bio
    groupies to express rageful feelings.

    @Blink, I have no problem whatever believing Kaine would long
    ago have had Kiara call his significant other Mommie. He has had ice
    in his veins, behaviorally. What did Kyron call Terri, after all, from his
    earliest years?

    The greatest loser in the abduction after Kyron is Kitty, far more so than
    either bio. She lost 5 family members: bith brothers, her closest grandparents,
    and her Mother. And Kaine willfully cause that, aided by Family Court actions that
    imo would never be allowed in other jurisdictions. That is something Sean should’ve put in his
    pipe when chosing sides.

  31. Rose says:

    one can see many of the stalkers’ full names
    by going to whotalking Terri Horman: Tom,
    Michael (who is explicitly threatening, Mary, Theresa, etc.

  32. grasshopper says:

    You might have noticed that I don’t trust the media for anything resembling objective reporting. one big reason: I have an acquaintance who knows someone on T’s street in Roseburg, This happened back in 2010 and continues to this day. One of the neighbors was trying to defend T and SAID “Terri is welcome here, we watch out for each other.” What the reporter wrote was that “We asked a neighbor who knew Terri and asked him how he felt about the kids in the neighborhood and he said that they watch out for them now that she is here.”

    Don’t know why they are determined to slant this story one way but it has gone on from the beginning.

    Yep. That neighbor should have asked for a retraction.
    B

  33. T. Ruth says:

    “We are still a united front in the goal that we want Kyron home. We want answers. That hasn’t changed,” Young said. “I personally have learned of information lately that has disappointed me in Kaine’s choices in his behavior. I just can’t stand by and support the choices he is making.”

    http://www.today.com/id/40192620

    Choices he is making. Making in November 2010. Bringing in another woman maybe, just like he did to Desiree?

  34. Malty says:

    I don’t seem to be able to see this Good bye Kitty site and it is fine with me as the words of these hate groups upset me on many levels I find the ongoing hate for so long and so intense makes me wonder about people
    Kiara should not be dragged into this miserable mess IMO

  35. Rose says:

    Malty, the acess become restricted after it was first mentioned here.
    I can no longer see it either.

  36. erose says:

    Next door to Carry Nations is Andale. The cocktail chronicles review in the San Jose Mercury News (won’t post) titled “Cocktail Chronicles: Carry Nation’s in Los Gatos” states that the bar does not have a restaurant, but you can order your food at Andales and they will pound on the common wall when the order is ready. I love traditional Mexican food, wish I could go check it out.

    snip>

    Our restaurants took root in Mexico’s high country, in the small semi-desert town of San Jose de Gracia, two hours from Guadalajara. Our family business, started with three friends — Luis, Ignacio and Pedro, each of us with deep ties to this parish that is really just one large tribe going back three, four generations.

    We came to the Bay Area to join our cousins, uncles and aunts, and were lucky to fall in love with restaurant work. What better way to live life than amongst good food, good people and good times? It’s in our bloodline, our heritage. When we opened our first Andale in 1987, we asked Ignacio to make what his abuelita, his little grandma, made on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, through the week and for special celebrations?

    We are still friends and now family. Our kids, our nephews and nieces, their families, we all work together still to bring good food from our family to you. We are proud to maintain the tradition of operating a family kitchen with our unique ability to present our Mexican culture and food experience.

    http://andalemexican.com/about/family

  37. erose says:

    They’re locations include SFO and Oakland airports.
    http://andalemexican.com/about/family

  38. erose says:

    @Seeker, It’s probably nothing. I’m just sniffin’ around. Many ironies or red herrings, IDK.

  39. Rose says:

    If Engel tries to close the Hearing, as he may because of his past performance, I hope someone argues it’s very much in the public interest to ascertain if RSE is credible because a sexual predator is the alternative, therefore the arguments relating to his deposition should be public.

  40. Sammy says:

    @ Blink ~~ thank you for the reply about the “new Mommy is pretty/nice/etc.” crap on that site.
    I was ready to blow a gasket as i was reading their latest.
    What a disgusting pig-trough that these groupies wallow in.
    I cannot fathom going thru life being such a miserable person(s) – including both the few apparent instigators and their clueless devotee’s.
    Yep, the hater-craters will in the end assist Terri in divorce, custody, and civil matters.

    @ Rose ~~ agree with you that these groups are another outlet for their internal communications.
    Misery loves company and all that.
    Trying to skirt the law, to get the ear of the pitifully biased news outlets, and to get their groupies to keep the heat turned up in regard to attempts to sway public opinion and promote the evil step-mother storyline.

    I am so ashamed & disappointed in myself – that I initially took such a superficial viewpoint of all the players in this mess.
    For way too long I bought in to the evil step mother storyline being shoved down our throats.
    Believing everything LE was either directly saying or alluding to (and the DA and judge, etc)
    Buying in to the very orchestrated moves & statements made to the press by both Kaine and Desiree.

    This debacle runs deep … VERY deep.
    Thanks to all the wonderful BOC critical thinkers who have doggedly searched for the truth – and opened my mind.
    I follow all your comments and learn so much from all of you. (and try to keep up!)

    Poor Kyron and poor Kitty.
    The truth takes a back seat to the PR machine and CYA mode in Multnomah County.
    Still blows my mind that Kaine & Desiree have been/are willing participants in this farce propagated by politics.
    THEY’RE PARENTS DAMMIT !!!!
    How can they be so concerned about themselves – divorce $$, “being right”, hiding whatever dirty laundry they may have, etc ??
    How can they not be shouting from the rooftops to learn the TRUTH about disappearing Kyron and wanting what is in the best interest of the other innocent victim – Kitty ??

    Sorry for the rant.
    Boy, this sure feels like the dam is ready to burst though.
    About time … for the children.

  41. Rose says:

    @Malty. wrt “Kiara should not be dragged into this miserable mess IMO”
    That is why the failure of cps to become involved with this family is stunning.
    Add to that Kristian’s MO & stated family history, medical concerns for Kyron from
    in loco parentis Terri, the father’s failure to disclaim and caution stalkers….
    I only surmise it is because this County relies more broadly than others
    on an “interdisciplinary” CA Team of which O’Donnell was a member and DA Supv Woods is a
    part, and probably so also was the sting-era Kyron ADA. Ordinary cps in Portland appears in
    part politically contingent.

  42. Rose says:

    Because Christopher H wrote a stunning narrative (url on here previously, repetitively, & easily googled) of his Seattle family’s severe emotional abuse when he returned from War injured & “defective” & needy, I have at times wondered about that as applied to Kyron. Terri was an M Ed with Spec Ed interests. She was getting Kyron a work
    up–spaciness, whatever, forms done by school, which had “listening” concerns. Some of his needs, certainly vision thanks to her, had probably been known to the Horman family system, as they were to Desiree. What if consequently Kyron’s position in the family was as precarious as Topher’s, that he too was rejected, and Terri’s meddling work-up unwelcome?

  43. Lauren says:

    FYI Andales food is awesome

  44. cd says:

    grasshopper says:
    December 15, 2013 at 12:38 pm
    -snip
    You might have noticed that I don’t trust the media for anything resembling objective reporting. one big reason: I have an acquaintance who knows someone on T’s street in Roseburg, This happened back in 2010 and continues to this day. One of the neighbors was trying to defend T and SAID “Terri is welcome here, we watch out for each other.” What the reporter wrote was that “We asked a neighbor who knew Terri and asked him how he felt about the kids in the neighborhood and he said that they watch out for them now that she is here.”

    Sammy says:
    December 16, 2013 at 12:30 am
    -snip
    @ Blink ~~ thank you for the reply about the “new Mommy is pretty/nice/etc.” crap on that site.
    I was ready to blow a gasket as i was reading their latest.
    What a disgusting pig-trough that these groupies wallow in.
    I cannot fathom going thru life being such a miserable person(s) – including both the few apparent instigators and their clueless devotee’s.
    Yep, the hater-craters will in the end assist Terri in divorce, custody, and civil matters.
    ———
    And add to that people in the Portland media have been part of effort to mislead the public and some have (Anna C KATU) even aligned themselves with the creators of this “Goodbye Kitty ” website. and the rest of the Hater crater. What is wrong with these people that they cannot see that this bullying of a 5 year old child is just wrong. Yes it is bullying of baby-k should she ever choose to be with her Mother. Thank god she probably cannot read there yet. I have stopped listening to the KATU news because I can see that their priorities are

    1. Not telling the truth

    2. Not protecting children who cannot protect themselves.

    3. How can anyone ever believe anything else they report on based on past BS.

    It seems their only interest in Kyrons disappearance is generating slander so people will watch their news cast.

    Murder Business
    B

  45. vw says:

    @Sammy

    ….Poor Kyron and poor Kitty.
    The truth takes a back seat to the PR machine and CYA mode in Multnomah County.
    Still blows my mind that Kaine & Desiree have been/are willing participants in this farce propagated by politics.
    THEY’RE PARENTS DAMMIT !!!!
    How can they be so concerned about themselves – divorce $$, “being right”, hiding whatever dirty laundry they may have, etc ??
    How can they not be shouting from the rooftops to learn the TRUTH about disappearing Kyron and wanting what is in the best interest of the other innocent victim – Kitty ??….
    …..

    I forgive you…cuz my fav cuz is nicknamed “Sammy” as i am….was…oh, well, long story of being jailed at 17….for 7 days while all my friend got out the next day.

    I digress. It’s late. Busy day at the marked and busier tomorrow.

    But you post resonated. I’ve known avid supporters of TMH’s rights buckle under threats of outing, etc. and turn into TMH haters. I’ve seen scammers like So-Cal and those like the one mentioned upthread taking advantage of the koolaid drinkers….amassing troups and support. I’ve seen posters ganged up on and spit out of these “groups” that act like the mean girls of movies. I’ve even cut of my travelling blog and other writings because of threats.

    But, in the end, we have to go by what we feel is right in our hearts, and minds, and….research.

    It is not right to take a child from its mother because we THINK she did something wrong. It is ever less right to take a child from its mother because our agenda might profit.

  46. Malty says:

    Thank you Sammy
    It really is about children. And if the bio parents won’t shout at least we do on BOC
    This whole thing is so wrong

  47. Malty says:

    And I blame Facebook to for allowing these sites

    I agree that they are way lax in monitoring content.
    B

  48. Rose says:

    @Malty. You’ve given me an idea to write Elizabeth Warren, cc to Eric Holder, to explore hearings & Federal legislation wrt criminalizing hate speech (ie death threats, torture threats) via social media, with a list of explicit violations & a catchall clause. I think this might interest them both. The problem is majority stockholders like Zuckerman have deep donor pockets to run candidates against legislators attempting reform. So, Citizens United and the Supreme Court bslance probably has to be fixed first. But I think I’ll write them. Necessary to control online bullying that risks lives. And it’s not like specific hate content hasn’t successfully been regulated before & survived challenge. But not with this Court.

    I am having one of these CRS days. I cannot remember if Kantor cited any case law in his order regarding ODonnell deposition motion to quash.

    Taking bets on Rees appearance today?
    B

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