Blink On Crime Kyron Horman Investigation Exclusive: DeDe Spicher Interview Yields Allegations Of Illegal Steroid Use Terri Horman Took To Police

A Blink On Crime Exclusive: DeDe Spicher speaks for the first time about her ordeal in the Kyron Horman investigation- continued  ©

S. Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief- Blink On Crime

DeDe Spicher and Terri Moulton Horman

 

In the first part of blinkoncrime.com’s exclusive interview with DeDe Spicher,  she revealed that after over 3 years of attempting to provide Multnomah County Sheriffs Office as well as Assistant Deputy Attorney Norm Frink with the necessary information they requested to clear her from any suspicion in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Skyline second grader Kyron Horman; she has finally been cleared after passing a polygraph as part of her requirement under an immunity deal that has been sealed with the court.  Unofficially cleared, that is.

Spicher and her attorney Chad Stavley,  who have since refused all local media requests,  would very much like the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office and current District Attorney Rod Underhill to clear her officially and publicly.

Spicher is adamant that law enforcement never had any reason to question her statements to them from the beginning, has cooperated fully for over three years and recently testified before the grand jury to prove she had nothing to hide.  While she would like the public to know that any assertions to the contrary are untrue, and sometimes have been offered maliciously,  her desire to speak out about her experience over the last three years is primarily to force investigative resources to review it’s progress- and hopefully adjust in a way to further leads in Kyron’s case.

As was proven not only by her recent polygraph,  but also by the verification that no evidence ever existed to support investigator’s theory in the first place,  Spicher had no information about anyone’s potential involvement in Kyron’s disappearance, let alone her own.

The continuation of our interview, which provoked some very interesting revelations long felt to be a possibility by many, was confirmed by Ms. Spicher  as she says- told to her by Terri Moulton Horman are prompting new possible theories in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Kyron Horman.  Two days after Kyron Horman’s eleventh birthday.

Stoy: So, in your estimation then,  why do you think that detectives Herron and Kravfe were so sure that you were involved or knew who was.

Spicher:  I have thought about this a lot, and I think there were a few reasons.  I think because I was advised through a meeting Terri had with a family friend and attorney that she should assume that all of her communication was being monitored by law enforcement and anyone she had contact with.  He told her to assume the house was bugged as well as vehicles, etc.  I also believe you did an article a while back that pointed out her phone was in Kaine’s name.   As this was a day or two after she was served with the restraining order,  she was also told that

Stoy (interrupting): You bought a prepaid phone after June 28th and never had one before that?  I had read that you or someone else purchased them the day of or the day after Kyron’s disappearance.

Spicher: No.  I purchased one prepaid phone, after Terri shared the info from her meeting, in my own name, either June 29th or 30th.    I think they were hung up on the fact that I came to her aid with no contact for so long so they just were convinced there had to be.

Stoy: ok, sorry, continue.  So you are not saying that LE was suggesting that you were hiding some other number you had and that was how they were alleging that you HAD to have been in contact with Terri or some other person prior to and on June 4th and that escalated your “poi” status in your opinion?

Spicher:  They did not say that to me specifically, but what they repeated over and over again, was that Terri and I had to have had some form of communication we were hiding.  It never made any sense to me because I knew I only had my cell that I had forever until the end of June,  and I knew I had not been in contact with Terri since her 40th birthday party in March.  So I would ask- well then I guess that means that you don’t have any contacts you can’t verify from either of us so why am I even in this “interview”?

To my recollection they never shared with me or answered any of my questions in response when something they kept hounding me about seemed absurd and conflicting with their theory.

Stoy: Which was?

Spicher: At first,  I think that they really believed I was involved,  and at some point I think they were talking more “accessory after the fact” because I got the impression ( although they did not share it with me) that Terri’s cell phone activity that day was nowhere near where I was,  and my vehicle never left, nor did I.  They would not verify that they located the ceramics/glassware artist [pottery artisan] I told you about and still have not.

Stoy: So in your opinion, you were clearly the linchpin of this case,  they [LE] believed you held the key to solving it and/or implicating Terri exclusively at that point, they no longer entertained your involvement per se?

Spicher: I honestly don’t think I could say that I ever believed that they stopped treating me as some sort of suspect.  I never felt that way,  but yes, absolutely they 100% believe that Terri is responsible and I definitely believed we all had to be interviewed and scrutinized or whatever,  but I really thought up until the meeting with Norm Frink that they [LE] would abandon that theory quickly because if they were positive I was the key, and I knew I was not, that would also eliminate Terri, who I did not and do not believe, but have no proof, was involved or knew anything.

Stoy: Right, so if you had nothing, and they felt you were the only nexus, it had to mean that they had no independent evidence of anything or anyone else so they would start in another direction?

Spicher: Right, but every interaction I had with them following and including the request to participate in the sting against her, made me believe they never did.  To get back to the why question you asked me- my final thought on that is that they kept pointing out that I was the person to tell everyone not to speak to them without attorneys in the beginning.    I would ask like who do you mean,  because that would have been my opinion across the board for any situation, but it was definitely based on what was getting out about how they were going about this.  I was scared and it turned out it was good reason.   I also would point out to them that I did not think that was or should be the basis for suspicion because if it was, it seemed to me that I was told that several staff members at Skyline had hired counsel, and Kaine was the FIRST to have one between he and Terri and I had told her at least a week or so before that she should.

Stoy: Why do you think she did not immediately take your friendly advice?  Your Dad was LE, and I presume she knew that.  People can say what they want, but I know many members of law enforcement in different jurisdictions and agencies.  I have worked with them or contributed analysis to cases with them privately [I cannot and would not ever include that in anything I choose to write on] and I can tell you that I do not know one of them that if they were the focus of a criminal probe or internal investigation they absolutely do not agree to an interview without a representative.  In fact,  Herron is or was the President of Mulnomah County Police Union or was, if I recall correctly.  So to that end, I find that a pretty hypocritical reason for suspicion of anyone.

Spicher: (laughs) Interesting.  I am not sure that I knew that. The reason Terri didn’t get an atty before the RO was because she was told by LE that if she did, she wouldn’t be privvy to any of their investigative discoveries, she would be out of the loop in finding Kyron.

Stoy: Have you had a desire or opportunity to review any sort of past events regarding the MCSO, I guess I should add, that involve anyone in this case or investigation you have had contact with?

Spicher: No,  do you mean like any other detectives or that sort of thing?

Stoy: Have you ever met with or been interviewed with any other agencies or detectives?

Spicher:  I believe I either met or just said hello to the guy you mentioned in that recent article of yours while he was at the house.  Both Kaine and Terri were there at the time as well.

Stoy: Bobby O’Donnell?

Spicher: That’s it,  yes, him.  Why did you ask me if I am aware of any sort of events- should I be?

Stoy: Well, I think that tangentially if I were you I would be considering just about everything as it related to what you have been through,  and I am aware of some what I will refer to as “stuff” but what I don’t want to do prior to the completion of our interview process is temper any of your responses with anything I know peripherally if that’s ok with you.  If you wish, once I publish the continuation which will have that sort of information,  I would invite you to comment on it for the record if you choose- are you ok with that?

Spicher: yes, that’s fine and probably a good idea.

Stoy: back briefly to the “sting request against Terri- On that issue- the request they extended to you outside the presence of your attorney and that they asked you not to tell Chad, as you think back ,  considering you have had no communication with Horman for over three years did you believe they thought it would work?  What did your attorney say when you told him?

Spicher: I can’t and won’t address any conversations I have had with my attorney,  but to answer your question as to my opinion,  I really don’t know for sure, I knew that I did not, and thought it was really, really odd- that was my first reaction.  After more thought,  and other conversations,  I don’t see how they thought it would work, or why they were still seemingly convinced after I had just passed the poly, etc, Terri was still their suspect and responsible.   What is your opinion on it?

Stoy:  I think I may reserve my thoughts on that for my piece.  Again, not wanting to temper your opinions  as we move along here and I think that could happen if I did.  Is that ok with you?

Spicher: Sure, thank you.

Stoy: I would like to move on to another subject for discussion.  I would just like to confirm for the record that I have never prior to this interview, asked you any questions about your potential knowledge of steroid use by yourself, or by Terri or Kaine Horman.  Is that correct?

Spicher: Correct, ok.

Stoy: Did they ask you this?

Spicher: Who is they?  You got a lot of pronouns flying around (laughs).

Stoy: Fair point, you’re right.  The good news is, as English, or should I say proper English is my second language (laughs) I use an copy editor.  Allow me to rephrase please.  Did anyone in law enforcement at any time ask you about steroids or other illegal injectable supplements sometimes used in weight training or body building in your interviews in this case?

Spicher:  Your question was did they [le] ask me anything about steroids or anything injectable ever?

Stoy: (laughs) now who’s throwing around the pronouns?

Spicher: (laughs) touche’ .  I was asked about it very vaguely in the beginning, I told them I had never used them, that I did not believe Terri ever did because she and I had similar views against using them and while we were on different supplement regimens when I was training for a marathon in 2008 I still remembered her to be knowledgeable about legal and effective nutritional supplements. I had no reason to believe she had ever used any kind of steroids.  I can’t say conclusively she never did but it would shock me.

Stoy: Why shock you?

Spicher: Because a few years back I recall Terri telling me that Kaine was what she referred to as “juicing”  and that his behavior had become very aggressive and well,  impatient or overeactive with the kids and she had discussed it with him and he ignored her.

Stoy: So for the record, when you say juicing you are referring to illegal steroids, not my Omega specials I make, correct?  That was the only question they ever asked you and did not ask any follow up questions like how long ago, etc, etc.  And so would you characterize the way law enforcement asked that question and their reaction to your response as disinterested, or having nothing to do with the case?

Spicher: I was never asked about Kaine’s use of steroids by either detectives or the grand jury.  But yes, that is what she told me.  I actually had forgotten all about it until she refreshed my recollection when I stayed there with her.  To the best of my memory I was asked just what I said, I answered as I just said and was never asked any follow up question nor was it mentioned again to me by law enforcement .  I don’t think I ever really understood what they did or did not think in terms of my information was important to the case,  but yes,  they were disinterested from my perspective as to it was the only time I was ever asked about it over the course of three and a half years and so my assumption is they still are.  But that is my assumption.

Stoy:  Understood, you are referring to the time you stayed at the Horman home late June 2010 through early July 2010 following Kaine’s  service of the restraining order and her exclusive use of the home?  Spicher:  I am not sure about the exclusive use part,  I didn’t really know anything about how that sort of thing worked and I think for some reason I want to say Terri was not allowed to show anyone.

Stoy: Ok.  Tell me everything you know about that. But, I would like you to see if you can provide me your recollection from what you were told about steroid use PRIOR to your conversations about it that refreshed your memory.  By the way, who else knows about this, if you know.

Spicher: Terri’s attorney Stephen Houze.

Stoy:  How would you know that?

Spicher: Because I helped her load them up, what appeared to me to be syringes in a box and deliver it to her attorney’s office, she said, at his request.   She also located some cancelled checks for what she said was Kaine’s payment for steroids.  I don’t remember who they were made out to but it was not to cash.

Stoy: ok,  understood,  we will get back to that.  I want to try and focus on what she told you those “few years back.”  Do you recall what year, even ballpark.

Spicher:  I want to say, but can’t be sure, it was after her competition in 2005,  and I am tempted to say it was around the time they got married or shortly thereafter- I am just not going to be much help in remembering this if you are asking me to extract what I remembered from then on my own.

Stoy: Nope, that’s what I am asking, your fine,  I don’t want to lead you but let me ask you a few things that may help.  Do you remember where you were during the conversation.

Spicher: I remember it was either the one and only time I ever had lunch with Terri, or it was during a time she called my cell,  Terri had a lot of drama,  and so I was in a Home & Garden Show class and I recall I was saying things out loud to let he know I was not free to talk really or respond as she was talking, so I was saying things like… I don’t know,  we should probably touch base on that when I am done here, or sounds good that we chat on it later.

Stoy: The brush up the other party is not getting, like that?

Spicher:  Yes, she was not getting it and so I was kind of 50% paying attention.  It was either during that call or at the lunch.  Other than that, I am not remembering the timing so well.

Stoy: But you would say a few years before Kyron went missing so based on that 2007 or 2008? Do you remember if they were married at the time?

Spicher: Again, we were friends for a good number of years but not close friends, I almost felt like if she was calling me or talking to me about it she had no other option at the time.

Stoy: Got it.  What did she say

Spicher:  She said that Kaine had been aggressive with her and impatient with the children and she attributed that to his “juicing”.  She confronted him and she felt he did not listen to her.  She told me that she then called a detective and turned in Kaine’s seller.  The member at the gym, I used to know the name but I really can’t recall because I was in the early morning crowd and this guy was more afternoon, I presume when they were there or they saw him.  I had stopped going to the same gym as them ater the first year or two I met them there.

Stoy: So she called a detective to turn in the seller Kaine was buying steroids from?  Wasn’t she concerned about the fact that buying them is also illegal and that Kaine could face charges?

SPicher: She told me that she contacted a detective and said she would be willing to turn over information about someone selling steroids but only if she could do so anonymously and without saying who was buying them, etc.

Stoy: So it was your understanding that she was trying to work out a scenario that would stop Kaine’s use without him ever knowing it was her by turning in that person?  Sort of like…  she gets approval to remain anonymous,  she gives the tip and then one day comes home and says… “Hey honey, guess what I heard at the gym.. you better stop that or you could be arrested for it, etc?

Spicher: Yes, something like that.  Except and again,  we have discussed it at one or both these occasions, but that did not work out.  The detective called her again directly and she was upset that there was further contact.  From what I recall,  I think that was the tone of what she was telling me.

Stoy: Understood,  so you are thinking that it may have been why she was sort of wired about it and not hearing you try to go about your day,  but insisting and venting like she was upset by it.

Spicher: Yes,  I think so.

Stoy: Do you think she could have called you because your Dad was law enforcement and she might need that sort of advice.  I don’t think so because she did not ask for any.  So then what?  Did Kaine find out?

Spicher: I just remember there was some sort of investigation of the guy,  and I really don’t know if Kaine ever found out about it or knows to this day.   If the seller or anyone was arrested or anything else at the time I do not remember,  that was how much I paid attention to it then until Terri reminded me of it.

Stoy: Ok.  Now, why is it that Terri was discussing it with you when you were staying at the house with her in your view?

Spicher:    Because after the restraining order was served and I guess she realized where Kaine was headed,  it was sort of like- if he was going to badmouth her, in her estimation it was false, but anyway, that Kaine had skeletons in his own closet sort of thing.   She told her lawyer [Houze] and she said he instructed her to bring the syringes and the cancelled checks to his office.   We did.

Stoy: So was Terri saying that Kaine was using steroids behind her back and she found this or that she knew and was having sort of the same reaction as last time, or she just learned once he was out of the home or what?  Was she suggesting this to you like it had something to do with Kyron’s disappearance?

Spicher:  I got the impression she did not know, or at least did not know when the last time he was using them was, but it gets fuzzy for me there because it is my belief up until the time the RO was served,  in my opinion she would have tried to protect Kaine from le finding out so I don’t know if she told le,  but it would surprise me.  Terri was always very family centric.  She would protect her family unit, and that is why she did the turning in thing,  this would seem the same to me until he made those murder for hire allegations.

Stoy: So did you get the impression from her that she thought that her allegation of Kaine’s steroid use had anything to do with Kyron’s disappearance?

Spicher: No, not at all.

Stoy: Nothing like, maybe this happened as some sort of retribution against her for turning someone in previously or against Kaine if they thought he was involved because after all she says he was the one buying it back then?

Spicher: No, she told me she had no idea who was responsible for Kyron’s disappearance or why, and the only possibility she came up with after the fact because of his past behavior and the fact that he showed up at her door demanding $10,000 she had no idea what he was talking about, that it was the landscaper.   He was the only person acting like a criminal at the time.

Stoy: Have you ever seen a text of hers involving the custody situation after the fact, after the Rudy Sanchez Estrada “sting”  and she called police twice that day/evening that ended with “mark 1 for the FBI.”

Spicher: I may have, if I did I don’t remember it specifically.

Stoy: She specifically said the FBI,  who has only ever assisted in this case, and who has no jurisdictional presence in Kyron’s case, I was just wondering if you had any thoughts on that.

Spicher: No, I don’t have any idea what she meant.

Is it possible that illegal steroid use or sales and the recent public outing there was an ongoing Federal Investigation with the emphasis on police and gym members that included persons familiar to the Horman’s  contributed to the circumstances involving the disappearance of Kyron Horman?

Has it been excluded by having more law enforcement investigating themselves?

 

Roid Rumors and Boys In Blue.. Coincidence Or Clue?

It is no secret that Oregon has seen it’s share of corruption allegations in recent years.  The very public and very disturbing account of it’s Governor Neil Goldschmidt’s involvement with a 14 year old girl earned Willamette Week’s Nigel Jaquiss a Pulitzer in 2005 for breaking the story a year earlier.  As a strong argument for the trickle down effect,  Goldschmidt’s former driver Bernie Giusto- who became the Multnomah County Sheriff following the debacle,  was forced to resign his position when a State agency declared they would be removing his police certifications due to his lack of “moral fitness” outlined in the now infamous Giusto Report.   A former Sheriff,   Bob Skipper, was then appointed to take his place, but after two attempts could not pass the required certifications.  The current Multnomah Sheriff Dan Staton, who has since won an election, was appointed in his place.  Several current MCSO officers assigned to Kyron’s case were interviewed for the Giusto report.

In fact,  Bobby O’Donnell was the lead investigator in Kyron’s case for the first 18 months who according to his own words in his interview was the unfortunate subject of an allegation involving his own very messy divorce.

MCSO Sgt Brett Ritchie stated in a police interview that O’Donnell was seen waving a gun and threatening his life [Ritchie] after he began dating O’Donnell’s ex wife. Laura O’Donnell was granted a restraining order against him that later became an agreement between the couple.

The lead investigator in the case of a missing child openly threatened a ranking officer and that incident was never investigated outside of Ritchie being told to stay away from O’Donnell.   O’Donnell’s deposition and his motion to quash it are the subject of a hearing scheduled for Friday September 13, 2013.

There is no question the agency tasked with the investigation into the disappearance of Kyron Horman has had several and more recent embarrassing entanglements.

In another investigative piece by the Willamette Week,  it exposes the egregious overtime paychecks that members of the prosecutors and investigators assigned to Kyron’s case have received during the early months following Kyron’s disappearance.

It is unclear how Multnomah County ever had jurisdiction in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance. According to the Skyline School’s filed safety and response plan,  the Portland Police Bureau is the agency of record.

Multnomah County’s former woes might have paled a bit in comparison if only by the difference a year makes to public memory, to that of their fellow neighboring officers in Canby, located in Clackamas County.

After several investigations into the selling and possible use of anabolic steroids  a Canby Police officer, which were repeatedly stalled due to his caption  tipping other’s off  in the alleged ring ,  Officer Jason Deason was arrested along with Canby Landscape Supply Owner William Traverso,  Brian Casey Paul Jackson were arrested.  The investigation was believed to be ongoing and Traverso, Deason and Jackson all cut deals for quick prison stints that shocked fellow officers and the public alike.   The specifics of which were sealed by the court.  It is now known that the Federal Bureau of Investigation continued to require the ongoing cooperation of it’s criminals turned informants to pursue federal indictments against possible targets in law enforcement and members of the bodybuilding set- to include acquaintances of Kaine and Terri Horman.

Presuming the confirmed allegations are true- is it possible that ‘a few years back’ Terri Horman unwittingly set off a state turned Federal investigation into the buying, using and selling of human growth hormone and anabolic steroids?  How could this be connected, if it is, to the timing of Kyron’s disappearance even if she had?

“… Jackson,   through a plea deal on state charges in 2009 where he admitted to selling anabolic steroids to Canby police officers in uniform, had been working with the FBI on an ongoing investigation when they confronted him with the knowledge that he was found deceptive on a polygraph designed to indicate if Jackson’s participation was far more extensive then he originally admitted to…”

“…Jackson, with his attorney, began cooperating with federal authorities shortly after his arrest.  He identified his source for steroids as Vancouver resident Rainbow “Bo” Wild Keepers, 39, a competitive bodybuilder and photographer. Agents ran Keepers’ name in federal databases and discovered that an Arizona man had tipped off the Drug Enforcement Administration years ago that Keepers was his source of steroids. Keepers was never charged…”

 On June 3rd, 2010,  approximately 24 hours before Kyron Horman’s disappearance,  Jackson was arrested on a Federal warrant following a sealed indictment issued the day before after failing a polygraph and refusing to help the FBI further.

From the Indictment:

Between June 2, 2005 and May 2008, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials B.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury,  in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).

 

It has since been revealed that the initials BW stand for Bradley Worden.  Worden owns a few businesses, all relating to wholesale gym equipment or nutritional products.  Worden has never been charged.

 Between June 2006 and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials N.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).

 

The identity of the person with initials NW is unknown.

 

Between June 2, 2005, and December 2007,: in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule illcontrolled substances, to a person with the initials G.P., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and

841(b)( 1)(E).

 

The identity of the person with the initials G.P is unknown.

 

Between June 2, 2005, and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule III controlled substances, to a person with the initials S.B., whose full name is known  to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and 84l(b)(1)(E).

 

The initials S.B. refer to Steve Beaudoin,  a former work associate of Jackson’s and current Oregon State safety officer.

 

According to assistant U.S. Attorney Jane Shoemaker, Jackson sold Beaudoin at least 50 pills of the steroid Winstrol, an injectable steroid called Deca Durabolin, Sustanon and, in June 2007, 100 pills of Anavar on one to two occasions. Shoemaker also said Jackson sold Beaudoin $500 worth of human growth hormone. Investigators discovered the sales through witness interviews and Jackson’s computer records, Shoemaker said.

 

 

From Buff To Puff

 

In contrast to Jackson,  although Traverso also sold to Deason and other members of law enforcement,  William ‘Jake’ Traverso, a former competitive bodybuilder and “Mr. Oregon”  cooperated extensively with the FBI by identifying other law enforcement officers he sold steroids to, and got a lenient sentence of 15 days in jail, 30 days home detention and 24 months probation, with no federal charges.

In a letter submitted to a Clackamas County judge Monday, FBI Special Agent Christopher Frazier said that Traverso has discussed his drug distribution activities in detail. “The public safety employees identified by Traverso included law enforcement officers, corrections officers, fire and rescue personnel and university public safety officers,” Frazier wrote,  “Several spin-off FBI public corruption investigations were initiated as a result of these allegations, and are ongoing.”

 

Traverso, Deason and Jackson were cooperating with the Feds simultaneously, and in a very public way.  Although Deason had been similarly employed by the Canby Police under Chief Greg Kroeplin, at least one of the raids on Traverso- Deason’s client,  was by Deason’s Canby fellow officer James Murphy.

 

John Hingson, Traverso’s attorney and past commentator on the Horman case,  sparred with then ADA Norm Frink as well.  Hingson unearthed the report that included Murphy had been demoted following Deason’s arrest and his credibility was called into question.  Murphy worked the graveyard shift with Deason.  The report also revealed that both Deason and Officer James Murphy, who was one of the few to initiate an investigation into Deason’s steroid abuse, were put at risk when they were scheduled to work side by side as the only two officers on that shift.

“…Hingson obtained a 2009 report written by private detectives the City of Canby had hired to investigate the steroid scandal. Among their findings: Murphy had been demoted from detective to officer for alleged dishonesty…”

Chief GregKroeplin resigned prior to release of a scorching memo outlining the city’s findings they had outsourced properly to two retired Oregon detectives, which would have resulted in his termination.

Murphy, still employed by Canby Police, is apparently looking to renew the agencies stint for bad press.

 

On October 13, 2011, six months after former Willamette Week journalist James Pitkin featured his Lord of The Flies article outlining Murphy’s internal investigation led to his demotion for dishonestly, he arrested a freelance sports reporter while taking pictures of him exiting the Canby Police Headquarters on duty and entering his personal vehicle.

Andrew Millbrooke  filed a Federal lawsuit in 2012 against The City of Canby,  Officer James Murphy and his captain Bret Smith  for excessive force and wrongful arrest which took place after Murphy used his cruiser to follow Millbrooke who was on foot.   In a police report from another officer in the case, Millbrooke tells him he is a freelance journalist trying to expose corruption and drug use by Officer Murphy.  The suit is pending.  A review of the declarations by both Mr. Smith and Mr. Murphy do not include the details of the investigative report commissioned by The City Of Canby discussing Mr. Murphy’s prior demotion.  Mr. Murphy also had a recent court decision regarding improper procedure [See Bonneau].

 

With pending motions to release the employment files of some Canby police officers to include Murphy, the charges against  Traverso were dismissed  this past May due the state delaying the case over 23 months.

Traverso, Deason and Jackson are all currently on probation.  Traverso is awaiting trial on recent charges involving watermelon theft.

As the Federal Bureau of Investigation is listed as an investigative partner to MCSO in the Kyron Horman investigation, it is their policy not to release files where they are not the lead agency of record or during an ongoing criminal investigation .

Requests for comment from Kaine Horman through his attorney Brett Engel regarding the allegations that he has either purchased or sold  illegal steroids have not been returned at the time of this publication.

However, in an article published to include a quote from Kaine Horman it seems that Kaine confirms Ms. Spicher’s assertion that Terri Horman did not use illegal steroids,  but rather nutritional supplements and had moved past those very quickly after her bodybuilding competition.

“…Kaine said he noticed a sharp shift in her behavior, saying she became self-centered and short-tempered.

“She’s not eating a lot of food, she’s exercising twice a day, she’s up at 4 o’clock in the morning, she’s not sleeping at night so we get just general irritable behavior towards everyone around her,” he said.

He said she consumed over-the-counter stimulants, such as fat burners, in high doses. In four months between January and April, she shed 62 pounds, dropping from 185 to 123 pounds, he said.

At the end of April, with her muscles bulked up and skin glistening with a bronze tan, she competed in the Emerald Cup bodybuilding competition in Bellevue, Wash…”

S.Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief, www.blinkoncrime.com was able to independently confirm Ms. Spicher’s account of alleged steroid use and ensuing investigation of a gym member as told to her by Terri Horman.

The source,  an associate of Terri Horman, DeDe Spicher and Kaine Horman who declined to be identified, went on to say that at the time it was “… really common knowledge who was using steroids and who was selling them…”   “… was not aware previously that Terri Horman claimed to have instigated contact with law enforcement to turn in the seller…”  The source declined to identify the seller and could not say for certain if he was charged and likely would not away- given the request not to disclose the source’s name on the record.

Reached for comment,  Terri Moulton Horman Attorney Stephen Houze declined to comment based on his policy of not speaking publicly when a client has pending legal matters.

A request for comment to Mr. Bunch,  Terri Horman’s divorce attorney has not been returned by the time of this publication.

 

More Questions Than Answers..

Following several hours of interviews with  DeDe Spicher, the woman who was not a close friend to Terri Horman but ultimately was the closest to her in the early days of the investigation- are we left with more questions than answers about what could have happened to the little boy whose 11th birthday was 2 days ago?

Spicher concedes that anything she discussed as told to her by Terri Horman in some minor instances may only be verifiable by Horman herself- and she is not talking… Yet.

She also points out that ultimately everything she told me she shared with investigators as far as “truthfulness” was confirmed by a polygraph – to include the question “Was she withholding any information from investigators?”

She was not.

Although limited, Spicher’s accounts in many instances confirm sparse information heard early on from Terri herself.  Not the least of which was that although widely criticized for not speaking out publicly, she was told by investigators not to under any circumstances- and when she broached the possibility of retaining counsel was told that she would then be cut off from any information as to the investigation process to find Kyron Horman.

Through Spicher,  Horman also confirmed that out of concern for Horman’s “spacieness”  which she defined by walking into a room and staring off, not remembering, etc,  Terri Horman called his pediatrition Thursday June 3rd and made an appointment for Friday June 11th.  His last day of school. Horman also told Spicher that Kyron had wondered off or got lost while in his teacher Ms. Porter’s care once before when following a fellow student out of class.

Initially, prior to learning Kyron had been marked absent not very long after she left the building, that was Horman’s first thought.  Those hopes grew into panic with that revelation that he had been missing for hours.

 

Spicher says Terri was adamant that she never had a sexual relationship with the now infamous landscaper Rudy Sanchez Estrada  Spicher agrees that her friend had the propensity to be flirtatious but she never knew her to be sexually promiscuous.  Outside of the fact that she says at Kaine’s request to occasionally include an additional female in the bedroom,  to which Spicher declined, she was not aware that the Horman’s had a swinger lifestyle.

To her knowledge,  there were other women that were asked to participate in a threesome with the couple that did not say no some years ago, but had no current knowledge and she herself was never involved with Horman sexually.

In her take, the addition of a 3rd female was an expression of control on Kaine’s part in the relationship.

 

Terri explained the landscapers “sexual accosting” , previously reported exclusively by www.blinkoncrime this way:

“… She said she had Kitty on her hip and he came up behind her and was kissing her neck and put his arm around her and when she verbally resisted with concern that Kitty was in her arms he sort of grabbed her and she spun around and broke free…”

 

Spicher adds that on more than one occasion she tried to bring that up during meetings with DA Norm Frink and investigators.  One one occasion, as suggested by her Father, a former Klamath County Marine Officer,  at their own expense  The Klamath County Sheriff and his first lieutenant had  agreed to meet with Frink, Spicher and her father on DeDe’s behalf to sort of provide character backgrounds and family history he felt would be helpful in clearing her.

“…  This came up in the first interview I had with Mr Frink and I told him she had made that call. Later in the interview when he was trying to push more of my buttons, he tells me that call never happened (implying Terri had lied to me). I told him okay, that’s what you’re telling me, but I recall it differently (implying he was lying to me right then). He got very angry about that and insisted it was “fact”. I said okay, whatever. Much later, like one of the last times I met with Mr Frink, the Klamath County Sheriff and his 1st Lieutenant flew up on their own dime to meet with Mr Frink & Keith Krafve to see if they could help by offering their opinion of my character, and that it didn’t seem unusual to them at all that I would go help Terri, that it is very consistent with how my family has always been. At that meeting, I retold the story of Rudy sexually accosting Terri (her words), but said I wasn’t sure about the 911 call. That totally infuriated Mr Frink. I told him I was trying to believe him and simply not certain about what I could remember on that point.

 

The DAs office behaved very strangely toward the Klamath Co Sheriff and his Lt. They tried everything they could to keep us separated and even insisted that they (the DAs office) drive them back to the airport, despite the fine fact that we (Dad & I) had picked them up and brought them in, and would definitely be seeing them again in the near future. It was just weird, to all of us…”

 

I asked DeDe if she used the term called 911 in every exchange.  She had.  I asked her if she got the impression that the reason Frink was so sure it never happened was because there was no 911 call on the record about it – could it be that maybe she reached out to that former law enforcement person she contacted on the steroid issue and it was actually a dispatch call versus a trackable 911 call issue.

Spicher says she got the impression that Frink was suggesting that the “accosting” as described by her friend did not happen, but could not be sure except to say that Frink seemed to become irate when she brought it up on every occasion.  Spicher felt Sanchez Estrada was the only person behaving like a criminal and that supported the accounts she was given.

I asked DeDe if Terri mentioned ever paying Sanchez Estrada for work at the Horman home.  She said she did not recall Terri ever saying anything other than she had no idea what he was talking about when he came to the door and asked for $10,000 so she slammed the door in his face and called 911.

Stoy: So did she think it was some sort of extortion attempt now that she had mentioned him to investigators and they told her that they had interviewed him?

Spicher: She thought that he was dangerous from her past experience.

Stoy: Did you think it was odd that with a brand new John Deere tractor parked outside that TH was hiring a landscaper?  I was able to confirm through other sources that he cleared some blackberry or blueberry bushes similar to Ms. Von Klevelen,  and the tractor does not have a UCC lien on it, meaning it was not financed.

Spicher:  No, it wasn’t.  Kaine bought it.  It was Terri’s job to manage the inside of the house as well as the entire property.   I knew that when Kaine would travel he would come up with this project lists for her to complete by the time he got home.  I  mean, like cleaning the gutters,  cutting the grass, washing all the windows, that sort of thing.  To the best of my recollection Terri and Kaine did not have bank accounts together- he controlled everything he made.

Stoy: With a baby,  7 year old and teenager and hubby out of town? How was she managing that?  No wonder he was suggesting that she was pouring through money like water or something like that, she was probably hiring help.  I am not even sure I think a woman by herself at that property with a baby should be on the roof by herself anyway.

Spicher:  No,  Terri  had to pay any support money or whatever to the household expenses and I have surmised Kaine gave her some sort of allowance which she probably blew through pretty quickly on frivolous things like food and clothes for her children.  I have never known Terri to be frivolous with money.  I know of at least two times when the projects she was supposed to accomplish were impossible for her to manage.  One was the windows so I believe she hired someone that time and as I recall her parents paid for that.  I believe the other was the landscaper.

Stoy: Is it a fair question for me to ask how you feel about Kaine, from your tone I am sensing you are not a fan.

Spicher: I have tremendous compassion for Kaine- he lost his child- what can one even say about that?  But no, he is not someone I would want to be friends with today and I was cordial to him whenever I was around him but he was very controlling and was pretty mean to Terri about her weight from Kitty, things like that- I am not going to have anything in common with that.

Stoy:  Did Terri ever mention anything about conflicts with Desiree Young, whether they were between her and she or Kaine and Desiree?

Spicher: Not that I recall, but I also never heard her speak of Desiree negatively at any time previously or when I stayed with her [Terri].

Stoy: That is saying a lot because right after the sting Ms. Young was pretty accusatory pretty quickly- and I do note that was based on information from law enforcement.  Similar to some of the things both she and Kaine said publicly about you.  Are you angry about that?

Spicher:  O my no.  That poor woman is going through hell and acted on information that I was told, lie or not, was given to her and Kaine.  I have nothing but compassion for her and I wish I could shoulder some of her pain because I can..   I have nothing but compassion for all of Kyron’s parents and any anger I have over how I was treated, what I went through would never be directed at them.   I really pray that Kyron will be found,  I choose to put my energy into hope for that.

Pending Matters

Through Attorney Bunch,  Terri Horman makes the claim that both law enforcement and Kaine Horman have been perpetrating the dissemination of inaccurate information involving the circumstances of Kyron Horman’s disappearance.

In a recent filing, set for hearing this Friday,  Bunch pens a scathing reply to Deputy O’Donnell’s motion to quash, and accuses the county of improper ex parte communication.

Early this afternoon,  a source within the Multnomah County Courthouse speaking on the condition of anonymity has confirmed that on behalf of Multnomah County, a motion has been filed to limit certain documents or discoverable information related to Mr. Horman and Bobby O’Donnell of the MCSO.

A hearing is scheduled before Judge Kantor for this Friday September 13, 2013

 

 

Jacqueline Beaufort,  Ellie Sanders – research and contributing editors to this article.

Jason Mateos- contributing editor, copy.

 

 

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4,398 Comments

  1. Rose says:

    @Blink. You stretch my vernaculor–CRS?
    I recall no caselaw cites, but even if he had
    them, this is Mr Creative wrt to
    application. Rees? Ya betcha.

    Lol, no, I really don’t.

    Cant Remember Sh*t = CRS
    B

  2. T. Ruth says:

    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/12/horman_couple_due_back_in_mult.html

    Horman couple due back in Multnomah County court Monday morning in child custody case

    Lawyers for Terri Moulton Horman and Kaine Horman are due back in a Multnomah County courtroom Monday morning to argue over what testimony from the Horman landscaper should be allowed as evidence as Terri Horman seeks temporary custody of their daughter.

    Terri Horman’s lawyer Peter Bunch asked for an emergency hearing once Kaine Horman, the father of missing Kyron Horman, cited testimony from landscaper Rodolfo Sanchez to argue that his estranged wife is dangerous and shouldn’t be allowed any parenting time with their daughter, Kiara, now 5.

    The landscaper testified in a deposition that Terri Horman had asked him to help get “rid” of her husband after she complained to him that her husband had physically and mentally abused her. The landscaper said the two met at a restaurant about five months before Kyron disappeared from Skyline School in June 2010. He also said, according to court documents, that Terri Horman told him that she feared her husband would take away their daughter.

    Kaine Horman denied abusing his wife, and suspects his wife contemplated divorcing him months before his son’s disappearance, but hesitated because she was concerned she’d lose her daughter to him, he said in court papers.

    (snipped, more @link)

  3. T. Ruth says:

    Maxine is giving updates of the court proceeding at the above link.

  4. Rose says:

    Does this woman ever have any real news other than “follow me”
    blurbs? Or excuses for new bizarre hate-comment hits?
    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/12/horman_couple_due_back_in_mult.html#incart_river

    Ahem Bernstein might have said:
    “After a wait of 2 weekends and one workweek, Judge Henry Kantor’s “Emergency Heading” in the matter of Horman v Horman is finally underway. Respondant wife is testing the limits of DA Underhill’s protection of a nonEnglishspesking yardworker’s claim that Respondant requested, without using the actual words for, he should mug and dispose of her husband due to his abuse. Husband opposes further exploration of his claims.

  5. Rose says:

    I just looked at MB’s tweets.
    She is trying, but I have no doubt Grass et al will
    be more thorough.

    My opinion is S Houze is right legally,
    and Engel needs about 30 more IQ points
    to evade sanctions in this or another litigated case.

    however pitiful the OR Bar in actually sanctioning, he will
    stand out if he gets a litigation track record imo.

  6. Sharon Mulhern says:

    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/12/horman_couple_due_back_in_mult.html#incart_river_default

    Blink, you may already have this; please disregard if it is a duplicate!

  7. nate0419 says:

    1. Rose says:
    December 16, 2013 at 12:59 am
    Because Christopher H wrote a stunning narrative (url on here previously, repetitively, & easily googled) of his Seattle family’s severe emotional abuse when he returned from War injured & “defective” & needy, I have at times wondered about that as applied to Kyron. Terri was an M Ed with Spec Ed interests. She was getting Kyron a work
    up–spaciness, whatever, forms done by school, which had “listening” concerns. Some of his needs, certainly vision thanks to her, had probably been known to the Horman family system, as they were to Desiree. What if consequently Kyron’s position in the family was as precarious as Topher’s, that he too was rejected, and Terri’s meddling work-up unwelcome?
    /////////////////////////////
    Agreed, it was unwelcomed. The only issue that KH & DY ever took responsibility for was Kyron’s “listening” at school. Why they didn’t blame TMH for that, IDK. Although TMH has education credentials I believe Kaine called the shots and it was he that wanted Kyron in the grade 2&3 classroom. Just because a child is mentally capable of learning at an accelerated pace does not mean they are emotionally ready to be in that environment.

  8. Rose says:

    wrt “Judge Kantor: Frames the issue as this: Legal consequences of the inability of Terri Horman’s lawyers to present portions of their case. So how does the court use evidence, that has been hampered due to law enforcement privilege. Court hearing concludes. Temporary child custody hearing to start Thursday morning, and continue Friday morning.” Quote from Bernstein, for original see OLive Comments today for her posts.
    Referencing also her other posts. vw, did I not warn you JK is a legal reliable on DA’s team, tho not legally in the mainstream? He’s a pooch. I don’t mind that, I understand his reliance on the political endorsement of the DA. I mind, desperately, his perversion of the law as applied, imo due to his political ambitions & a preening ego & a lack of education and supervision. Somebody run a competent candidate against him.

  9. Rose says:

    wrt “Judge Kantor: Frames the issue as this: Legal consequences of the inability of Terri Horman’s lawyers to present portions of their case. So how does the court use evidence, that has been hampered due to law enforcement privilege.” I was so ticked, I forgot my point. Law school 101. It can’t be used, J Kantor.

    Where is Lea Connor? Or any lawyer could opine.

    Rule 307.

    40.115¹
    Rule 307. Allocation of the burden of producing evidence

    (1) The burden of producing evidence as to a particular issue is on the party against whom a finding on the issue would be required in the absence of further evidence.

    (2) The burden of producing evidence as to a particular issue is initially on the party with the burden of persuasion as to that issue. [1981 c.892 §16]

    B

  10. Rose says:

    Didn’t need Rees. Judge in the pocket–as I predicted.
    Why else was a nonFamily, nonCriminal Bench assigned.

  11. Rose says:

    and Desiree (civil suit) was used by
    Kaine once again–to
    pull Kantor in from civil bench.
    Perhaps indirectly. thru LE.

  12. T. Ruth says:

    Maxine Bernstein | mbernstein@oregonian.com
    19 Minutes Ago

    Judge Kantor: I think it’s more a question of ” does the fact that Mr. Sanchez is going to testify, and the respondent is going to be relying on the credibility of the witness, affect my decision as to whether I’ll allow any questioning/discovery as to the 2nd meeting (between Sanchez and Mrs. Horman)?”

    Kantor: “What do we do with Mr. Sanchez’ s testimony?”

    Here’s what I’m going to do:
    Going to allow the presentation of the evidence.
    I’m going to allow the parties to brief this question further.
    ***Whether I”m going to allow any of Mr. Sanchez’s testimony to be included, I haven’t decided yet.***

    Judge: We’re going to allow hearing to go forward Thur and Friday. Not going to allow cross-examination of Sanchez on the 2nd meeting he had with Sanchez.

    Houze suggests: Instead of taking Sanchez’s testimony at hearing, use the deposition transcript “It might keep things cleaner,” Houze said.

    Judge: “If you want this hearing to go forward, it needs to go forward.”
    “I need you to go forward with what we have here.”

    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/12/horman_couple_due_back_in_mult.html

    Shout out of thanks to Maxine, for the live coverage.

    Very interesting hearing. Most interesting part to me, is the Judge hasn’t decided whether he’s going to allow ANY of Sanchez’s testimony.

  13. Rose says:

    @Bernstein, wrt “Maxine Bernstein | mbernstein@oregonian.com8 minutes ago
    Crux of issue:
    What’s the law that will allow/or not allow the judge to consider as evidence testimony from a witness in which one side is limited from fully questioning or cross-examining to determine the witness’ credibility?
    Judge Henry Kantor has not ruled yet on that question, and asked lawyers from both sides to submit further legal briefs with their arguments. Kantor has ruled that he won’t allow Terri Horman’s lawyers to cross-examine the landscaper about his last meeting with Terri Horman after Kyron’s disappearance, which was at the direction of law enforcement)
    Terri Horman’s lawyers say it would be unfair to consider any of landscaper R. Sanchez’s limited testimony on his one meeting with Terri Horman, if they could not cross-examine him to learn about his 2nd meeting with Terri Horman (which was at the direction of law enforcement) to determine his credibility.
    Kaine Horman’s lawyer argues that the court can accept R. Sanchez’ testimony, restricted to his first meeting with Terri Horman as to the alleged murder-for-hire plot.
    Judge”

    Ask any law school student having done 1st year classes.
    They’ll tell you RSE’s testimony under oath should be tested,
    or excluded. This comment of JK tells you more about JK
    than any other case ruling, Imo it means he’s stupid,
    or lacked a basic law school education,
    or is easily coopted for his ambitions, or just meanders
    & is not focused in thinking, imo.

    1. Fact- Sanchez or RSE acted at the direction of LE ( see I was right, it was the sting, lol) that effort where he WAS an agent of the state, was used in concert to preclude this woman’s rights to be free from custodial interference of her child. You can’t separate them. They are inextricably linked to the allegations at hand- as an example, “said meeting” he alleges, and subsequent meeting which he claims to try to collect alleged fee. Those components are requirements to reach statute in the first place. Maybe TMH should file a defamation case against him so they can get to the bottom of it.

    2. Houze is right. The crux of the plaintiff’s case restly solely on LE innuendo which cannot be tested, and half a story from a barely English speaking landscaper that LE would not object, nor deliver in this case. Who the eff does that make sense to?

    Lastly, You got that right that Engel’s commentary was sanctionable- and Houze oughta know.
    B

  14. Rose says:

    Imo, If ANY civil litigation Judge declines to rule, in a case where the DA’s office has a self-protection interest, on a clearcut & simple emergency petition (which ruling imo would be easily dictated by law & fact), but lets the main action proceed, saying i’ll do it later-/maybe; that Judge needs to be scrubbed by a Federal corruption probe, imo.

    He ruled on the additional deposition, was a no. That said, I have never actually seen a family court judge ask the lawyers in an emergency hearing- ostensibly because the witness is on the docket in a few days to submit further briefs in support of argument on a partial ruling with a pending hearing. If order date is today- as you know, it is subject to response and reply times within the OR statute for process and procedure, etc. and therefore it wont be ready. How can he not rule on admissibility in a pending matter that seeking temp custody?

    What is he doing- delaying a ruling for this week’s hearings in advance? Pushing HouzeofBunch to file a continuance until January?

    He is not going to reverse his partial ruling today and I for one, am very anxious to see what the memo or order reads from today.

    B

  15. Rose says:

    @TRuth wrt “Very interesting hearing. Most interesting part to me, is the Judge hasn’t decided whether he’s going to allow ANY of Sanchez’s testimony.” that’s not interesting. That’s negligence imo.
    And what he was hired for. Never happen in my jurisdiction.

    Nor mine. Jaw on floor here- again.
    B

  16. vw says:

    How can a judge, and the ADA not know the statute of limitations on a MFH?
    Rees doesn’t know for sure if it is 6 years. I looked it up a few months ago. There is no limit in Oregon.

    Max did a great job of covering the body of the brief hearing. I’m looking at my notes. Will write some more later if I find descrepencies.

    Wish TMH was there. Seems Kantor thinks clearer when she’s there.

    Yes, you were right about the 2nd meeting, Blink. VW bows slightly..

    Rose, what can I tell you? I give Kantor yet another pass, and he totally disappoints again. This time he even refered to rees….about the mfh and gave him the venue to state that yes, if Houze requests those BESC tapes again, Staton will deny them again.

    Almost laugh outloud…..Engels stating twice that he went out and “found” Sanchez, LE didn’t bring him to the office….a blogger?

    Also petty….Engel’s saying he dug up the money financing TMH’s court costs and “it’s a LOT”.

    Very eerie today, inside and out. I felt strongly this whole game was pre-planned a long, long time ago.
    But I also felt, again, that Engels, and Kantor aren’t very, well, educated. Engel’s says, “I’ve went…” and Kantor doesn’t know the statute of limitation on a MFH.

    I’m going to try to stay positive till the end of the week. The real truth must be there somewhere in those carry-on totes Houze and Rackner won’t let go of.

    I posted the solicitation statute very long ago, and included it in a piece or 5, lol:

    131.105
    Time­liness of crim­i­nal ac­tions
    131.125
    Time limita­tions
    131.135
    When pros­e­cu­­tion commenced
    131.145
    When time starts to run
    131.155
    Tolling of statute

    § 131.125¹
    Time limitations

    (1) A prosecution for aggravated murder, murder, attempted murder or aggravated murder, conspiracy or solicitation to commit aggravated murder or murder or any degree of manslaughter may be commenced at any time after the commission of the attempt, conspiracy or solicitation to commit aggravated murder or murder, or the death of the person killed.

    I know what Rees was referring to though- maybe he is trying to tie an event on the record?

    At least I hope like Hell he knows his burdens as a prosecutor.

    Am I the aforementioned blogger, lol?

    I remind all… Norm Frink email about unsealing the RSE sting..

    Staton can deny a FOIA request all he wants, but here is the thing.. that sting was on an unsecured frequency in the first place and the exclusion goes south when it is learned that there will never be any charges against TMH because a grand jury returned a no true bill.

    I submit a carefully drafted FOIA and subsequent follow up could get those tapes heard.

    If not, just ask a blogger who has the transcript.
    B

  17. vw says:

    You know. Just have a “feeling”.

    What if this “emergency” hearing, with Houze/Bunch/Houze vs the little LDS spanish-speaking criminal lawyer/KH/Rackner/Engels……was”staged”?

    I mean…why not in-chambers decision, lawyers only? Why was Rees even refered to and asked an opinion of when told butt out last time?

    What the public, if they were listening, heard is important……Houze refering to a “deal” made by RSE and LE. The word “credibility” in reference to Rudy.

    Maybe it is those two words that will change the course because Houze doesn’t have to have proof, he has to imply that the proof is related to those two above words.

    it’s simple.
    Houze can’t introduce what he knows about the first grand jury. By it’s very testimonial virtue, RSE received queen for a day status, but I also have to believe he either had it going into the sting in some form, or LE would not want the public to know how they entrapped two people that day, and needed one out of the cage. In terms of today being staged, I opined earlier that in my mind, it looks very much to me like Kantor has already decided the hearings outcome.

    Without RSE there is no reason to restrict either Kitty or TMH rights, it goes to “best interest standard.” So how do you rule on that? You just say until an evaluation can be completed he can’t change the circumstances of the child- in good faith. If that is what happens, I further predict that Houze will go interlocutory, and motion for recusal.
    B

  18. Amys Sister says:

    It sounds to me like Houze did not offer up a strong enough argument for Kantor and Kantor needs more to rule in his favor. He’s asking for a legal basis to bring in what is part of an ongoing investigation. We can call the ‘ongoing investigation’ a sham all we want here but Kantor can’t and won’t and neither would any judge in his position.

    I agree that is not his duty before the court to an extent. He let that ship sail when he allowed Rees to be heard over several respondent objections- without citing any case law on it, I might add.

    Terri can take the stand and answer questions regarding the day of the sting. She can respond to the allegations regarding the day she allegedly proposed a MFH. She won’t. That’s fine, but how does it make it Kantor’s problem that there is an ongoing investigation and Terri cannot take the stand on the matter?

    Amy’s sis, you know I heart you but your information on that issue is flawed. The sting is exactly what Houze is trying to cross examine the witness about because it was excluded from the deposition upon the advice of RSE counsel. Kantor is the trier of fact for upcoming inlimine motions/hearings- so how do you propose he allows evidence that the respondent cannot refute/rebut/impeach? As a matter of law it is against the rules of evidence. Houze is exactly right in that RSE was an agent of the state in this 100% of the time- they “met” him via TMH in a criminal probe in which he participated in a sting for LE, which was recorded, and he testified before a grand jury with immunity.

    For purposes of this case- he is an agent of the state and subject to exclusion as Kantor has ruled similarly. He can’t pick and choose. This is not a criminal proceeding- and this crud further paints TMH unfairly as a defacto suspect and I have no clue how that is not painfully obvious?

    The next question becomes why even allow RSE testimony in the first place? Because prior to the sting there was no LE involvement in discussions between Terri and RSE so it is open to testimony by both parties. In any event, during custody and visitation hearings essentially everyone and their brother is allowed to come in and testify as to why either party would be the better parent. Hopefully Houze has put together some excellent witnesses for Terri.

    That is incorrect, it is not an open hearing, parties and witnesses they subpoena only.

    Now, it isn’t clear whether or not Houze asked to question LE directly. One would think based on Kaine’s deposition of what LE did or did not say that the door has been partly opened to do just that. Maybe Houze should have pushed more for LE testimony based on Kaine’s deposition? That would give Kantor a more legal foundation to work with based on his own previous ruling.

    Here is the thing. Right church wrong pew- very astute you picked up the foundation issue. While I believe Kantor does not know how to apply some of his experience to family law, I do agree that ultimately that is what Houze was after. There is a crack in the door, but it is still with that inside chain lock thingie and he needs RSE on the record because he was introduced and deposed by the plaintiff, he discussed information contained in an active criminal probe and so far the judge is allowing that half. It would still be hearsay but it would allow Houze to move it from hearsay to livesay by getting a deposition from LE to corroborate his testimony- or discredit it.
    B

    Do we really want to disregard RSE testimony? I don’t think so, this is a civil case brought to determine the best interest of Kiara. Terri can give limited testimony regarding the conversation that day with RSE. She refused to do so when the first RO was requested and she’s declining now. Why should that interfere with the best interest of Kiara? Here is a man who really thought Terri wanted him to kill her husband. If she doesn’t want to testify then she should bring in witnesses to counter RSE testimony… that she was a loving wife and mother who would never want to harm her husband.

    She cannot testify to anything pertaining to potential criminal involvement nor should she be compelled to. I agree she is going to need significant witness support.

    It is interesting that Houze would prefer RSE not give live testimony and that the court rely only on the written depo. Indicates RSE is a believable witness.

    I disagree with that as well. Houze knows he does not want RSE on the record because he does not want to forego his objection that he as an agent of LE. He wanted a ruling on the admissibility in the first place, not the mess before them now.

    I think Kantor was doing Houze a service by not ruling at this point because Houze really offered no legal argument for allowing the testimony of RSE involvement in a sting requested by LE about an ongoing investigation. Maybe now Houze will request the depo of LE which could be the direction Kantor wants Houze to go.

    Me in bold
    B

  19. graceinthehills says:

    Isn’t the judge the trier of fact in this upcoming hearing and decision about visitation? If so, how does one un-ring a bell?

    Yes ma’am, exactly right. He cannot and will not- the question becomes why ruling with further brief requests? This temporary custody hearing is all on him- and he is going to consider an unchallenged witness, which is also the heart of the plaintiff’s objection? I submit he showed his hand that he is going to keep status quo and somebody better get this child a GAL yesterday.

    B

  20. Amys Sister says:

    Rose says:

    December 16, 2013 at 2:30 pm
    ___

    Doesn’t that happen all the time? A judge needs further foundation from the attorneys on which to base a decision or more time to ponder and research the arguments before them?

    It happened in the Zimmerman case.

    No, not when he is set to testify in 3 days. It will be on the record. Kantor needs a strong law clerk.
    B

  21. Amys Sister says:

    IMO, court costs are not a petty argument. They are valid in divorce hearings no matter which side brings it up. Wives of wealthy husbands do it all the time. It’s common and can aid the court in understanding if there was any underhanded or unfair economic goings on during or after the break up of a marriage.

    @VW… was Rackner there today?

  22. Amys Sister says:

    @ Blink: RSE can still be challenged on the stand regarding their relationship and the day he alleges Terri asked him to murder he husband, can’t he?

    Well, in theory, yes, but at this juncture it would appear that this is a cart before horse issue as to the overall admissability or Kantor needs fodder from the testimony to rule on the record as to the overall submission and consideration.

    I am pretending in my head that once in court Kantor is going to give enough latitude because he knows someone is going to fling the door W I D E.

    B

  23. vw says:

    @Amy’s Sister …… yes, Rackner was there. Confering but not speaking.

    Engel’s was, imo, being petty when he mentioned a large “war chest”. Wonder if the DA’s office (moi and other taxpayers are paying for Engels to delay reunification of mother and daughter. And how much is coming from the selling of Kyron, ie. fundraisers? Houze has too much tact to mention that.

    @Blink

    Here’s the thing. If the “second meeting” can’t be discoverable because Rudy was acting as a agent of LE, then the “IDEA” of the facts of the FIRST meeting could be construed as under the influence of LE also.

    All Houze has to do is within the vein of what he asked of Kaine, such as:

    “Did you come to recall ALL of the facts of your FIRST meeting with TMH independently?”

    I am on record from day one this cad was an agent of the state, period. He came into this investigation by the woman he is alleging attempted to hire him to kill her spouse in the presence of her baby, without an interpreter.

    I don’t give a rats ass, that is the allegation that separated this woman from her child and home for over 4 years – and what about the fact that nobody bothered to ask Rees if this allegation is indeed presently the subject of it’s OWN CRIMINAL PROBE… Why? because it isnt and then is no longer excludable.

    B

  24. Amys Sister says:

    No, not when he is set to testify in 3 days. It will be on the record. Kantor needs a strong law clerk.
    B
    ___

    Yes, except it was an emergency hearing brought by Houze who Kantor did not find gave him enough to work with. I’m trying to be objective and I also find there was not enough to either disregard RSE depo nor to force him to testify about LE activities during an ongoing investigation.

    In all fairness, Kantor can’t rule off the cuff only because there is a hearing in three days. It wouldn’t be to anyone’s advantage to do that. I mean, he could have simply stated that Houze was SOL and RSE testimony would be accepted as is with the hearing to follow but he’s allowing Houze to further support his argument.

    Amy’s sis, that is incorrect. Did you anticipate that briefs and responses and likely another oral argument would occur prior to Thursday and Friday? Never. He has ruled that RSE can testify, but he cannot be cross examined about parts of his own deposition for the plaintiff. He expressly said that if Houze wants the hearings this week then he is obliged to rule accordingly.

    What he is saying is that somehow, even though he is allowing a witness that the respondent cannot cross effectively and knows this upfront- that he will somehow decide if it gets weight to his decision.

    If this goes forth as is, you can bet that Houze will be under every defcon effort you can think of to destruct RSE credibility.

    So interestingly, maybe I am looking at this all wrong, language barriers aside, maybe Kantor wants to use Thurs and Fri to rule retroactively ( which btw is improper).
    B

  25. Amys Sister says:

    Thank you for your responses Blink. I have to admit I’m still stuck on why Houze can’t cross RSE effectively without bringing up the sting or the investigation?

    What if there was no sting? Houze would still be able to question RSE about that day and his relationship with Terri. He would still be able to bring in to question whether Rudy is a reliable or honest witness.

    I believe Kantor isn’t totally opposed to allowing some aspects of the investigation in but he is forcing Houze to do it in the proper way and that would not be third party through RSE, it would be through LE themselves.
    __

    Blink says: (snipped) and what about the fact that nobody bothered to ask Rees if this allegation is indeed presently the subject of it’s OWN CRIMINAL PROBE… Why? because it isnt and then is no longer excludable.

    Me: I don’t disagree but Houze did not do a righteous job of outlying that for Kantor who has given Houze more time to do so either by even broaching the question in documents or actually requesting a depo of LE.

    Kantor is not going to take it to the climax himself. He has to enable the attorneys to do that, and he is.

    AS- under Oregon law, an allegation for mfh must be corroborated.

    lastly- as predicted the hearings have now been postponed.
    B

  26. grasshopper says:

    I haven’t caught up with all these comments let alone put my own notes together but BREAKING NEWS

    https://twitter.com/cominer

    hearing on thurs and friday likely to be postponed!

    Thank you grasshopper and VW for your diligence today as always!
    B

  27. T. Ruth says:

    Kantor

    “Here’s what I’m going to do:
    Going to allow the presentation of the evidence.
    I’m going to allow the parties to brief this question further.
    Whether I”m going to allow any of Mr. Sanchez’s testimony to be included, I haven’t decided yet.”
    **************

    Is not the Judge required to allow cross if in fact RSE’s testimony is included in his decision? If that is the case, then I don’t think he’ll allow RSE testimony at all, because of the position it puts Multnomah County in. (Wish I could have seen the look on everyone’s faces when Houze brought this in:

    “So what’s the court left with? An incomplete and self-serving account of events,” between the landscaper and Terri Horman, Houze says.

    Houze said he needs to know more about Sanchez.

    “Questions that are central to this issue: “Is he to be believed or not?” Houze tells the court.
    “Did he get some kind of deal with law enforcement in order to propel him to become an agent of law enforcement?”
    ********

    So, RSE’s attorney specializes in bankruptcy and criminal law. Why does RSE need a criminal attorney? Or is he going into bankruptcy?

    So, if he doesn’t it allow it at all, KH and his attorneys had better have something else up their sleeves to prohibit this temporary custody from going forward. JMO

    I also found it interesting that KH is going to be calling 5 or 6 witnesses, and TMH only 3. Must be some potent witnesses.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/12/horman_couple_due_back_in_mult.html

    Maxine Bernstein | mbernstein@oregonian.com
    4 Hours Ago

    Chief Deputy DA Don Rees: “Nothing said this morning changes where we were a month ago, 2 months ago. Nothing has changed. The state, to the extent possible, has sought to keep in its control the details of the criminal investigation surrounding the disappearance of this little boy, Kyron Horman. ” That would include further info from Mr. Sanchez, Rees said.

    Yes, Blink it was interesting Rees’ above comment he does not mention anything about an impending MFH investigation, only the investigation into Kyron’s disappearance. I’m with you, I believe the MFH is BS. So, let’s say Kantor is now aware of it being ” LE tactics” as opposed to the truth as well. Would he not just throw said testimony out, which would protect Multnomah County? If it is BS, ooops, I mean LE tactics, then there is no need to consider any of it in regard to the Horman’s daughter’s best interest.

    If it can be proven that there is no current mfh probe or “ongoing investigation” on it’s own- which could simply be by testing the allegation v available evidence to statute- then everything having to do with the allegation will no longer be subject to the ongoing investigation exclusion, currently keeping such information from the accusee.

    The burden is on LE to prove it is subject to exclusion that green curtain is very small.
    B

  28. grasshopper says:

    hallway interview with Adam Thayne, RSE’s attorney.

    http://www.kptv.com/story/24233443/landscaper-in-alleged-murder-for-hire-plot-may-testify-in-horman-case

    Gotta hand it to Kyle- he got him. RSE has a deal. Duh.
    B

  29. grasshopper says:

    aha! TRuth’s link above answer’s my question!

    Thayne speaks spanish, making a good choice for RSE attorney and demonstrating a likely language problem between RSE and T

    http://pview.findlaw.com/lawyer/adam-r-thayne/or/portland/NDQwODc3Nl8x/PP

  30. TJ says:

    I have been following this case sice the beginning, reading daily on BOC. I don’t usually post, But I have a few things to say today.

    This is like a three ring circus, and I’m disgusted. KYRON is still MISSING, and Kyron has seemed to have been put on the back burner. WHY ? I thought the Bio’s focus was KYRON. The behavior of the stalking, Kaine and his memory loss, this is all Cray Cray. One innocent little girl is caught in the middle of all of this, as a pawn. The papers and internet are filled with articles of the BIO’s, stalking, and divorce…Find Kyron Dammit !

    Does anyone remember on Dr. Phil when Desiree said she was going to break the law, and keep her kids but her husbabnd (TY) talked her down and said she would get arrested ? I thought that was interesting.

    Also has anyone else noticed that if you do a google search on Kyron Horman that Kristian Hormans Picture pops up with Kyron’s, it never had before, so just thought it was unusual ?

  31. T. Ruth says:

    “OK, I love you but this is ridiculous. What you are doing is parental child abduction and is illegal. I need to know where my daughter is and if she is safe. You were really upset with me when you left. What is it that I/we need to do to reconcile this? I don’t want to call 911 but I need a resolution please. If I don’t hear from you in an hour I will call 911,” Terri Horman wrote to Kaine Horman.

    About an hour later, Terri Horman e-mailed a friend and said she called 911 but was directed to a non-emergency dispatcher.

    “Guess what? Since we are married we have joint custody and he can do that. Gee, too bad I didn’t know that,” she wrote.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxA05bPoREg

    Motive. LE is saying that Terri Horman’s fear of Kaine Horman taking her daughter away from her was her motive in an alleged MFH. If the MFH does not/did not exist, are they saying that they believe her motive for disappearing Kyron was the same? So Horman’s attorneys are implying she somehow got rid of Kyron because of her fear that a judge would rule that Kyron and his sister should not be separated?

    I’m not so sure she knew this was even a possibility. If she was keen enough to know about this sibling determination how on earth could she not know she could have just done what Kaine did, take her daughter and get out of town?

    I wonder why Terri would think Kaine would try to keep Kiara when it is known that he didn’t want any more children in the first place? I feel if there is any truth to Terri thinking Kaine would try to keep Kiara from her, there has to be more. I think NelMel’s question about what KH might hang over his current and former wife’s heads makes more sense.

    OTOH, though the above quote could add credence to that possibility, I’m not so sure Terri ever thought any such thing, but that it was all part of the sting, an attempt to make her talk.

  32. grasshopper says:

    link at bottom of this article has engel motion filed today! and faxed from courthouse
    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/12/post_389.html

    excerpt from deposition at end of motion

    Houze asked RSE if he told Engel he wouldn’t be available for later trial. answer no
    so request for perpetuation was inappropriate IMO

  33. tiberious says:

    This is somewhat out of the realm of what is being discussed here but what was most frightening to me is the comments made to the article with this link:

    http://www.kptv.com/story/24233443/landscaper-in-alleged-murder-for-hire-plot-may-testify-in-horman-case

    People are saying the most awful things about TMH and absolutely believe she committed this crime.

    This sort of mindset by the public is not helping the situation at all.

    Blink, is there any benefit for TMH attorney’s or someone she knows to contact national media and do an interview for one of the big news papers or magazines? How about a talk show?

    I feel that no matter the size of her city it has a small town mentality and needs outsiders to probe this situation.

    None. Under Oregon law, as expressly observed by Houze, lawyers are not permitted to discuss pending cases publicly that may be construed as outcome.
    B

  34. vw says:

    New article by Maxine, in which she links the recent Engel’s filing. Also formal inclusion of Dr. V. into the case.

    I think she did a stellar job today, and I think she is taking public temperature.

    B

    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/12/post_389.html

    Gotta hand it to her. Maxine is starting to see the light.

  35. vw says:

    WOW! Page 77,78 of Rudy’s depo linked by Maxine.

    Engels/Rackner are stirring, stirring, stirring up the couldron.

    This HAS to be sanctionable. So much for the pepetuity “issue”.

    How could Engels get away with this waste of court time and taxpayer’s money.

    He is a snake. This and the “I FOUND out Rudy’s name.” Like Rackner hasn’t had it from day 1.

    He found out Rudy’s name from the LE docs funneled to that office he is so FOS.
    B

  36. Sharon Mulhern says:

    The first time I ever heard the story about murder for hire, my logic and reasoning could not accept it at face value! So that leaves us with “What?”

    Once it is proven beyond any reasonable doubt, that Terri was set up by law enforcement, and whether Kaine was duped or complicit, we will still need the answer , “Who are they protecting?”

    When we find out WHO law enfacement and the judiciary are protecting, this evidence will most likely uncover the mystery of this little missing boy!

    Who….someone or a group of people with a lot of power and influence…law enforcement….school….church

    Why? Custody Porn

    Where? Canada? Church groups? Mexico? Orphanage? Someone’s back yard or basement?

    How? Planned and intentional…pilot and plane Boat ? Accidental….and parent(s) trying to protect their child or teenagers from consequences?

  37. Rose says:

    Definitely you, but I appreciate the question.

    B

  38. Rose says:

    Not indicated from here friend, fwiw.
    B

  39. Rose says:

    Maybe Kantor lazily waiting 10 days to afford an
    emergency hearing was deliberate?
    Didn’t take Kaine that long on the hearsay RO.

    I dunno if you have seen RSE’s depo excerpt, less dozens of pages of course, but looks like Kantor did not have this in court today, or at least if was not referenced.

    So why try to certify a witness you trust as unavailable?
    B

  40. Rose says:

    LOL, feel free- but not necessary and I am the original poster child for such concerns.

    B

  41. Rose says:

    I’m improving. I get FOS — and concur.

    LOL.
    Don’t encourage my low road behavior- it is like a license.
    B

  42. Rose says:

    I too thank Bernstein for notes & depo.
    I was worried at the early article saying there will
    be a hearing today, which I felt weak,

    However I saw the first few tweets before leaving home
    for the day, & they were thorough.
    TY to everyone following this today for
    catching up those of us who couldn’t.

  43. erose says:

    The bigger the fiasco,
    The bigger the appeal, Si?

    Depends. This is a civil matter- not really that bang for the buck if you know what I mean- specifically- today was SUPPOSED to be about Kiara. Not sure I heard her name.

    In theory- your right of course.
    B

  44. Rose says:

    I have been off reading today’s events.
    I do not understand this Judge.
    Very often in cps cases, someone takes the stand
    and what could be criminal acts are testified to.
    Often charges have not been, and may not be brought.
    But no way would a Judge allow a parent’s custody to
    be affected without the parent subject to allegations being
    able to cross on all aspects of veracity & credibility using
    that incident as well as other relevant interactions. If the
    State opens the door by putting on a witness, tough. Now
    Kaine is not the State bringing a case against a parent, but
    he has put on a witness whose testimony is being used to preclude
    TMH’ custody. Whether it’s the State or a husband, there
    is a very strong legal presumption parents deserve custody.
    I do not see how LE exclusion can apply here as his credibility
    & evidence must be tested. It’s done all the time in cpsd cases.
    If Kantor will not permit, imo he must exclude BEFORE the testimony is rendered.

    I go with Aloha Attorney’s blog grade on Kantor.

  45. vw says:

    Blink….Still can’t shake this feeling. Sounds like a song. But things were just “weird” in court today. As if it were all set up a long time ago. Engels, again, was the most tiresomely “theatrical” in his assertions, which were BS about “finding” Rudy with Rackner and “our landscaper” – Kaine sitting right there.

    Only three cameras in the hallway.
    Lots of unknown peeps were there. Maybe TMH’s family. Her mom.

    Odd that TMH was not there. And Kaine was. No cameras, so that means it wasn’t TMH that requested.

    But the way that Rees, right in front of me and in line with the judge, was summoned to give advice on what would happen if BESC call were requested again, what the statute of limitations was….and….i didn’t mention this before, but at the end Kantor looked at Rees and said….”and you will be here too…might not be able to say much…but…” So Kantor was giving the “nod” to Rees…as if he would be welcome…if you get what I mean.

    Really…it all depends on this. Without a credible LS, the DA, MCSO, everything falls. They lost the case and it will be officially COLD.

    But even before Kantor “ruled” Houze and Bunch looked at each other…as if they knew….(cronies!) and they attempted a couple of final arguments, but they saw the writing on the wall…so to speak.

    I think we can’t rely on Kantor, but i’m not giving up hope. It could have very well been that none of the parties were well prepared.

    It just might be, in the end, Dr. V. or Rudy and his lawyer that really put things into perspective.

  46. cd says:

    IMO
    The way Engels grandstands and states things about TH that are unproven and not even part of the Divorce case tells me that he does not think Kantor is smart enough to see though his misleading statements made only to ruin TH’s reputation. Maybe he is right Kantor does not seem able to control or edit Engels unsubstantiated accusations and innuendo intended only to vilify TH in the public eye. To bad Baby-K could not have drawn a wiser judge.

    I don’t know if it has occurred to Kantor that most of the hatercrator folks are located in middle or southern Oregon. They would not be voting on elections in Multnomah County. So trying to cater to this group will not help him in a Mult County election.

  47. Rose says:

    @erose. the bang for the buck will someday be a founded Bar complaint imo.
    Not that that will help Kiara. But it will caution scurrilous Bar members & the public.
    I wish ol Independent Engel would get his witness’ name right.

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