In the first part of blinkoncrime.com’s exclusive interview with DeDe Spicher, she revealed that after over 3 years of attempting to provide Multnomah County Sheriffs Office as well as Assistant Deputy Attorney Norm Frink with the necessary information they requested to clear her from any suspicion in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Skyline second grader Kyron Horman; she has finally been cleared after passing a polygraph as part of her requirement under an immunity deal that has been sealed with the court. Unofficially cleared, that is.
Spicher and her attorney Chad Stavley, who have since refused all local media requests, would very much like the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office and current District Attorney Rod Underhill to clear her officially and publicly.
Spicher is adamant that law enforcement never had any reason to question her statements to them from the beginning, has cooperated fully for over three years and recently testified before the grand jury to prove she had nothing to hide. While she would like the public to know that any assertions to the contrary are untrue, and sometimes have been offered maliciously, her desire to speak out about her experience over the last three years is primarily to force investigative resources to review it’s progress- and hopefully adjust in a way to further leads in Kyron’s case.
As was proven not only by her recent polygraph, but also by the verification that no evidence ever existed to support investigator’s theory in the first place, Spicher had no information about anyone’s potential involvement in Kyron’s disappearance, let alone her own.
The continuation of our interview, which provoked some very interesting revelations long felt to be a possibility by many, was confirmed by Ms. Spicher as she says- told to her by Terri Moulton Horman are prompting new possible theories in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Kyron Horman. Two days after Kyron Horman’s eleventh birthday.
Stoy: So, in your estimation then, why do you think that detectives Herron and Kravfe were so sure that you were involved or knew who was.
Spicher: I have thought about this a lot, and I think there were a few reasons. I think because I was advised through a meeting Terri had with a family friend and attorney that she should assume that all of her communication was being monitored by law enforcement and anyone she had contact with. He told her to assume the house was bugged as well as vehicles, etc. I also believe you did an article a while back that pointed out her phone was in Kaine’s name. As this was a day or two after she was served with the restraining order, she was also told that
Stoy (interrupting): You bought a prepaid phone after June 28th and never had one before that? I had read that you or someone else purchased them the day of or the day after Kyron’s disappearance.
Spicher: No. I purchased one prepaid phone, after Terri shared the info from her meeting, in my own name, either June 29th or 30th. I think they were hung up on the fact that I came to her aid with no contact for so long so they just were convinced there had to be.
Stoy: ok, sorry, continue. So you are not saying that LE was suggesting that you were hiding some other number you had and that was how they were alleging that you HAD to have been in contact with Terri or some other person prior to and on June 4th and that escalated your “poi” status in your opinion?
Spicher: They did not say that to me specifically, but what they repeated over and over again, was that Terri and I had to have had some form of communication we were hiding. It never made any sense to me because I knew I only had my cell that I had forever until the end of June, and I knew I had not been in contact with Terri since her 40th birthday party in March. So I would ask- well then I guess that means that you don’t have any contacts you can’t verify from either of us so why am I even in this “interview”?
To my recollection they never shared with me or answered any of my questions in response when something they kept hounding me about seemed absurd and conflicting with their theory.
Stoy: Which was?
Spicher: At first, I think that they really believed I was involved, and at some point I think they were talking more “accessory after the fact” because I got the impression ( although they did not share it with me) that Terri’s cell phone activity that day was nowhere near where I was, and my vehicle never left, nor did I. They would not verify that they located the ceramics/glassware artist [pottery artisan] I told you about and still have not.
Stoy: So in your opinion, you were clearly the linchpin of this case, they [LE] believed you held the key to solving it and/or implicating Terri exclusively at that point, they no longer entertained your involvement per se?
Spicher: I honestly don’t think I could say that I ever believed that they stopped treating me as some sort of suspect. I never felt that way, but yes, absolutely they 100% believe that Terri is responsible and I definitely believed we all had to be interviewed and scrutinized or whatever, but I really thought up until the meeting with Norm Frink that they [LE] would abandon that theory quickly because if they were positive I was the key, and I knew I was not, that would also eliminate Terri, who I did not and do not believe, but have no proof, was involved or knew anything.
Stoy: Right, so if you had nothing, and they felt you were the only nexus, it had to mean that they had no independent evidence of anything or anyone else so they would start in another direction?
Spicher: Right, but every interaction I had with them following and including the request to participate in the sting against her, made me believe they never did. To get back to the why question you asked me- my final thought on that is that they kept pointing out that I was the person to tell everyone not to speak to them without attorneys in the beginning. I would ask like who do you mean, because that would have been my opinion across the board for any situation, but it was definitely based on what was getting out about how they were going about this. I was scared and it turned out it was good reason. I also would point out to them that I did not think that was or should be the basis for suspicion because if it was, it seemed to me that I was told that several staff members at Skyline had hired counsel, and Kaine was the FIRST to have one between he and Terri and I had told her at least a week or so before that she should.
Stoy: Why do you think she did not immediately take your friendly advice? Your Dad was LE, and I presume she knew that. People can say what they want, but I know many members of law enforcement in different jurisdictions and agencies. I have worked with them or contributed analysis to cases with them privately [I cannot and would not ever include that in anything I choose to write on] and I can tell you that I do not know one of them that if they were the focus of a criminal probe or internal investigation they absolutely do not agree to an interview without a representative. In fact, Herron is or was the President of Mulnomah County Police Union or was, if I recall correctly. So to that end, I find that a pretty hypocritical reason for suspicion of anyone.
Spicher: (laughs) Interesting. I am not sure that I knew that. The reason Terri didn’t get an atty before the RO was because she was told by LE that if she did, she wouldn’t be privvy to any of their investigative discoveries, she would be out of the loop in finding Kyron.
Stoy: Have you had a desire or opportunity to review any sort of past events regarding the MCSO, I guess I should add, that involve anyone in this case or investigation you have had contact with?
Spicher: No, do you mean like any other detectives or that sort of thing?
Stoy: Have you ever met with or been interviewed with any other agencies or detectives?
Spicher: I believe I either met or just said hello to the guy you mentioned in that recent article of yours while he was at the house. Both Kaine and Terri were there at the time as well.
Stoy: Bobby O’Donnell?
Spicher: That’s it, yes, him. Why did you ask me if I am aware of any sort of events- should I be?
Stoy: Well, I think that tangentially if I were you I would be considering just about everything as it related to what you have been through, and I am aware of some what I will refer to as “stuff” but what I don’t want to do prior to the completion of our interview process is temper any of your responses with anything I know peripherally if that’s ok with you. If you wish, once I publish the continuation which will have that sort of information, I would invite you to comment on it for the record if you choose- are you ok with that?
Spicher: yes, that’s fine and probably a good idea.
Stoy: back briefly to the “sting request against Terri- On that issue- the request they extended to you outside the presence of your attorney and that they asked you not to tell Chad, as you think back , considering you have had no communication with Horman for over three years did you believe they thought it would work? What did your attorney say when you told him?
Spicher: I can’t and won’t address any conversations I have had with my attorney, but to answer your question as to my opinion, I really don’t know for sure, I knew that I did not, and thought it was really, really odd- that was my first reaction. After more thought, and other conversations, I don’t see how they thought it would work, or why they were still seemingly convinced after I had just passed the poly, etc, Terri was still their suspect and responsible. What is your opinion on it?
Stoy: I think I may reserve my thoughts on that for my piece. Again, not wanting to temper your opinions as we move along here and I think that could happen if I did. Is that ok with you?
Spicher: Sure, thank you.
Stoy: I would like to move on to another subject for discussion. I would just like to confirm for the record that I have never prior to this interview, asked you any questions about your potential knowledge of steroid use by yourself, or by Terri or Kaine Horman. Is that correct?
Spicher: Correct, ok.
Stoy: Did they ask you this?
Spicher: Who is they? You got a lot of pronouns flying around (laughs).
Stoy: Fair point, you’re right. The good news is, as English, or should I say proper English is my second language (laughs) I use an copy editor. Allow me to rephrase please. Did anyone in law enforcement at any time ask you about steroids or other illegal injectable supplements sometimes used in weight training or body building in your interviews in this case?
Spicher: Your question was did they [le] ask me anything about steroids or anything injectable ever?
Stoy: (laughs) now who’s throwing around the pronouns?
Spicher: (laughs) touche’ . I was asked about it very vaguely in the beginning, I told them I had never used them, that I did not believe Terri ever did because she and I had similar views against using them and while we were on different supplement regimens when I was training for a marathon in 2008 I still remembered her to be knowledgeable about legal and effective nutritional supplements. I had no reason to believe she had ever used any kind of steroids. I can’t say conclusively she never did but it would shock me.
Stoy: Why shock you?
Spicher: Because a few years back I recall Terri telling me that Kaine was what she referred to as “juicing” and that his behavior had become very aggressive and well, impatient or overeactive with the kids and she had discussed it with him and he ignored her.
Stoy: So for the record, when you say juicing you are referring to illegal steroids, not my Omega specials I make, correct? That was the only question they ever asked you and did not ask any follow up questions like how long ago, etc, etc. And so would you characterize the way law enforcement asked that question and their reaction to your response as disinterested, or having nothing to do with the case?
Spicher: I was never asked about Kaine’s use of steroids by either detectives or the grand jury. But yes, that is what she told me. I actually had forgotten all about it until she refreshed my recollection when I stayed there with her. To the best of my memory I was asked just what I said, I answered as I just said and was never asked any follow up question nor was it mentioned again to me by law enforcement . I don’t think I ever really understood what they did or did not think in terms of my information was important to the case, but yes, they were disinterested from my perspective as to it was the only time I was ever asked about it over the course of three and a half years and so my assumption is they still are. But that is my assumption.
Stoy: Understood, you are referring to the time you stayed at the Horman home late June 2010 through early July 2010 following Kaine’s service of the restraining order and her exclusive use of the home? Spicher: I am not sure about the exclusive use part, I didn’t really know anything about how that sort of thing worked and I think for some reason I want to say Terri was not allowed to show anyone.
Stoy: Ok. Tell me everything you know about that. But, I would like you to see if you can provide me your recollection from what you were told about steroid use PRIOR to your conversations about it that refreshed your memory. By the way, who else knows about this, if you know.
Spicher: Terri’s attorney Stephen Houze.
Stoy: How would you know that?
Spicher: Because I helped her load them up, what appeared to me to be syringes in a box and deliver it to her attorney’s office, she said, at his request. She also located some cancelled checks for what she said was Kaine’s payment for steroids. I don’t remember who they were made out to but it was not to cash.
Stoy: ok, understood, we will get back to that. I want to try and focus on what she told you those “few years back.” Do you recall what year, even ballpark.
Spicher: I want to say, but can’t be sure, it was after her competition in 2005, and I am tempted to say it was around the time they got married or shortly thereafter- I am just not going to be much help in remembering this if you are asking me to extract what I remembered from then on my own.
Stoy: Nope, that’s what I am asking, your fine, I don’t want to lead you but let me ask you a few things that may help. Do you remember where you were during the conversation.
Spicher: I remember it was either the one and only time I ever had lunch with Terri, or it was during a time she called my cell, Terri had a lot of drama, and so I was in a Home & Garden Show class and I recall I was saying things out loud to let he know I was not free to talk really or respond as she was talking, so I was saying things like… I don’t know, we should probably touch base on that when I am done here, or sounds good that we chat on it later.
Stoy: The brush up the other party is not getting, like that?
Spicher: Yes, she was not getting it and so I was kind of 50% paying attention. It was either during that call or at the lunch. Other than that, I am not remembering the timing so well.
Stoy: But you would say a few years before Kyron went missing so based on that 2007 or 2008? Do you remember if they were married at the time?
Spicher: Again, we were friends for a good number of years but not close friends, I almost felt like if she was calling me or talking to me about it she had no other option at the time.
Stoy: Got it. What did she say
Spicher: She said that Kaine had been aggressive with her and impatient with the children and she attributed that to his “juicing”. She confronted him and she felt he did not listen to her. She told me that she then called a detective and turned in Kaine’s seller. The member at the gym, I used to know the name but I really can’t recall because I was in the early morning crowd and this guy was more afternoon, I presume when they were there or they saw him. I had stopped going to the same gym as them ater the first year or two I met them there.
Stoy: So she called a detective to turn in the seller Kaine was buying steroids from? Wasn’t she concerned about the fact that buying them is also illegal and that Kaine could face charges?
SPicher: She told me that she contacted a detective and said she would be willing to turn over information about someone selling steroids but only if she could do so anonymously and without saying who was buying them, etc.
Stoy: So it was your understanding that she was trying to work out a scenario that would stop Kaine’s use without him ever knowing it was her by turning in that person? Sort of like… she gets approval to remain anonymous, she gives the tip and then one day comes home and says… “Hey honey, guess what I heard at the gym.. you better stop that or you could be arrested for it, etc?
Spicher: Yes, something like that. Except and again, we have discussed it at one or both these occasions, but that did not work out. The detective called her again directly and she was upset that there was further contact. From what I recall, I think that was the tone of what she was telling me.
Stoy: Understood, so you are thinking that it may have been why she was sort of wired about it and not hearing you try to go about your day, but insisting and venting like she was upset by it.
Spicher: Yes, I think so.
Stoy: Do you think she could have called you because your Dad was law enforcement and she might need that sort of advice. I don’t think so because she did not ask for any. So then what? Did Kaine find out?
Spicher: I just remember there was some sort of investigation of the guy, and I really don’t know if Kaine ever found out about it or knows to this day. If the seller or anyone was arrested or anything else at the time I do not remember, that was how much I paid attention to it then until Terri reminded me of it.
Stoy: Ok. Now, why is it that Terri was discussing it with you when you were staying at the house with her in your view?
Spicher: Because after the restraining order was served and I guess she realized where Kaine was headed, it was sort of like- if he was going to badmouth her, in her estimation it was false, but anyway, that Kaine had skeletons in his own closet sort of thing. She told her lawyer [Houze] and she said he instructed her to bring the syringes and the cancelled checks to his office. We did.
Stoy: So was Terri saying that Kaine was using steroids behind her back and she found this or that she knew and was having sort of the same reaction as last time, or she just learned once he was out of the home or what? Was she suggesting this to you like it had something to do with Kyron’s disappearance?
Spicher: I got the impression she did not know, or at least did not know when the last time he was using them was, but it gets fuzzy for me there because it is my belief up until the time the RO was served, in my opinion she would have tried to protect Kaine from le finding out so I don’t know if she told le, but it would surprise me. Terri was always very family centric. She would protect her family unit, and that is why she did the turning in thing, this would seem the same to me until he made those murder for hire allegations.
Stoy: So did you get the impression from her that she thought that her allegation of Kaine’s steroid use had anything to do with Kyron’s disappearance?
Spicher: No, not at all.
Stoy: Nothing like, maybe this happened as some sort of retribution against her for turning someone in previously or against Kaine if they thought he was involved because after all she says he was the one buying it back then?
Spicher: No, she told me she had no idea who was responsible for Kyron’s disappearance or why, and the only possibility she came up with after the fact because of his past behavior and the fact that he showed up at her door demanding $10,000 she had no idea what he was talking about, that it was the landscaper. He was the only person acting like a criminal at the time.
Stoy: Have you ever seen a text of hers involving the custody situation after the fact, after the Rudy Sanchez Estrada “sting” and she called police twice that day/evening that ended with “mark 1 for the FBI.”
Spicher: I may have, if I did I don’t remember it specifically.
Stoy: She specifically said the FBI, who has only ever assisted in this case, and who has no jurisdictional presence in Kyron’s case, I was just wondering if you had any thoughts on that.
Spicher: No, I don’t have any idea what she meant.
Is it possible that illegal steroid use or sales and the recent public outing there was an ongoing Federal Investigation with the emphasis on police and gym members that included persons familiar to the Horman’s contributed to the circumstances involving the disappearance of Kyron Horman?
Has it been excluded by having more law enforcement investigating themselves?
Roid Rumors and Boys In Blue.. Coincidence Or Clue?
It is no secret that Oregon has seen it’s share of corruption allegations in recent years. The very public and very disturbing account of it’s Governor Neil Goldschmidt’s involvement with a 14 year old girl earned Willamette Week’s Nigel Jaquiss a Pulitzer in 2005 for breaking the story a year earlier. As a strong argument for the trickle down effect, Goldschmidt’s former driver Bernie Giusto- who became the Multnomah County Sheriff following the debacle, was forced to resign his position when a State agency declared they would be removing his police certifications due to his lack of “moral fitness” outlined in the now infamous Giusto Report. A former Sheriff, Bob Skipper, was then appointed to take his place, but after two attempts could not pass the required certifications. The current Multnomah Sheriff Dan Staton, who has since won an election, was appointed in his place. Several current MCSO officers assigned to Kyron’s case were interviewed for the Giusto report.
In fact, Bobby O’Donnell was the lead investigator in Kyron’s case for the first 18 months who according to his own words in his interview was the unfortunate subject of an allegation involving his own very messy divorce.
MCSO Sgt Brett Ritchie stated in a police interview that O’Donnell was seen waving a gun and threatening his life [Ritchie] after he began dating O’Donnell’s ex wife. Laura O’Donnell was granted a restraining order against him that later became an agreement between the couple.
The lead investigator in the case of a missing child openly threatened a ranking officer and that incident was never investigated outside of Ritchie being told to stay away from O’Donnell. O’Donnell’s deposition and his motion to quash it are the subject of a hearing scheduled for Friday September 13, 2013.
There is no question the agency tasked with the investigation into the disappearance of Kyron Horman has had several and more recent embarrassing entanglements.
In another investigative piece by the Willamette Week, it exposes the egregious overtime paychecks that members of the prosecutors and investigators assigned to Kyron’s case have received during the early months following Kyron’s disappearance.
It is unclear how Multnomah County ever had jurisdiction in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance. According to the Skyline School’s filed safety and response plan, the Portland Police Bureau is the agency of record.
Multnomah County’s former woes might have paled a bit in comparison if only by the difference a year makes to public memory, to that of their fellow neighboring officers in Canby, located in Clackamas County.
After several investigations into the selling and possible use of anabolic steroids a Canby Police officer, which were repeatedly stalled due to his caption tipping other’s off in the alleged ring , Officer Jason Deason was arrested along with Canby Landscape Supply Owner William Traverso, Brian Casey Paul Jackson were arrested. The investigation was believed to be ongoing and Traverso, Deason and Jackson all cut deals for quick prison stints that shocked fellow officers and the public alike. The specifics of which were sealed by the court. It is now known that the Federal Bureau of Investigation continued to require the ongoing cooperation of it’s criminals turned informants to pursue federal indictments against possible targets in law enforcement and members of the bodybuilding set- to include acquaintances of Kaine and Terri Horman.
Presuming the confirmed allegations are true- is it possible that ‘a few years back’ Terri Horman unwittingly set off a state turned Federal investigation into the buying, using and selling of human growth hormone and anabolic steroids? How could this be connected, if it is, to the timing of Kyron’s disappearance even if she had?
“… Jackson, through a plea deal on state charges in 2009 where he admitted to selling anabolic steroids to Canby police officers in uniform, had been working with the FBI on an ongoing investigation when they confronted him with the knowledge that he was found deceptive on a polygraph designed to indicate if Jackson’s participation was far more extensive then he originally admitted to…”
“…Jackson, with his attorney, began cooperating with federal authorities shortly after his arrest. He identified his source for steroids as Vancouver resident Rainbow “Bo” Wild Keepers, 39, a competitive bodybuilder and photographer. Agents ran Keepers’ name in federal databases and discovered that an Arizona man had tipped off the Drug Enforcement Administration years ago that Keepers was his source of steroids. Keepers was never charged…”
On June 3rd, 2010, approximately 24 hours before Kyron Horman’s disappearance, Jackson was arrested on a Federal warrant following a sealed indictment issued the day before after failing a polygraph and refusing to help the FBI further.
Between June 2, 2005 and May 2008, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials B.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).
It has since been revealed that the initials BW stand for Bradley Worden. Worden owns a few businesses, all relating to wholesale gym equipment or nutritional products. Worden has never been charged.
Between June 2006 and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials N.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).
The identity of the person with initials NW is unknown.
Between June 2, 2005, and December 2007,: in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule illcontrolled substances, to a person with the initials G.P., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and
841(b)( 1)(E).
The identity of the person with the initials G.P is unknown.
Between June 2, 2005, and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule III controlled substances, to a person with the initials S.B., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and 84l(b)(1)(E).
The initials S.B. refer to Steve Beaudoin, a former work associate of Jackson’s and current Oregon State safety officer.
According to assistant U.S. Attorney Jane Shoemaker, Jackson sold Beaudoin at least 50 pills of the steroid Winstrol, an injectable steroid called Deca Durabolin, Sustanon and, in June 2007, 100 pills of Anavar on one to two occasions. Shoemaker also said Jackson sold Beaudoin $500 worth of human growth hormone. Investigators discovered the sales through witness interviews and Jackson’s computer records, Shoemaker said.
From Buff To Puff
In contrast to Jackson, although Traverso also sold to Deason and other members of law enforcement, William ‘Jake’ Traverso, a former competitive bodybuilder and “Mr. Oregon” cooperated extensively with the FBI by identifying other law enforcement officers he sold steroids to, and got a lenient sentence of 15 days in jail, 30 days home detention and 24 months probation, with no federal charges.
In a letter submitted to a Clackamas County judge Monday, FBI Special Agent Christopher Frazier said that Traverso has discussed his drug distribution activities in detail. “The public safety employees identified by Traverso included law enforcement officers, corrections officers, fire and rescue personnel and university public safety officers,” Frazier wrote, “Several spin-off FBI public corruption investigations were initiated as a result of these allegations, and are ongoing.”
Traverso, Deason and Jackson were cooperating with the Feds simultaneously, and in a very public way. Although Deason had been similarly employed by the Canby Police under Chief Greg Kroeplin, at least one of the raids on Traverso- Deason’s client, was by Deason’s Canby fellow officer James Murphy.
John Hingson, Traverso’s attorney and past commentator on the Horman case, sparred with then ADA Norm Frink as well. Hingson unearthed the report that included Murphy had been demoted following Deason’s arrest and his credibility was called into question. Murphy worked the graveyard shift with Deason. The report also revealed that both Deason and Officer James Murphy, who was one of the few to initiate an investigation into Deason’s steroid abuse, were put at risk when they were scheduled to work side by side as the only two officers on that shift.
“…Hingson obtained a 2009 report written by private detectives the City of Canby had hired to investigate the steroid scandal. Among their findings: Murphy had been demoted from detective to officer for alleged dishonesty…”
Chief GregKroeplin resigned prior to release of a scorching memo outlining the city’s findings they had outsourced properly to two retired Oregon detectives, which would have resulted in his termination.
Murphy, still employed by Canby Police, is apparently looking to renew the agencies stint for bad press.
On October 13, 2011, six months after former Willamette Week journalist James Pitkin featured his Lord of The Flies article outlining Murphy’s internal investigation led to his demotion for dishonestly, he arrested a freelance sports reporter while taking pictures of him exiting the Canby Police Headquarters on duty and entering his personal vehicle.
Andrew Millbrooke filed a Federal lawsuit in 2012 against The City of Canby, Officer James Murphy and his captain Bret Smith for excessive force and wrongful arrest which took place after Murphy used his cruiser to follow Millbrooke who was on foot. In a police report from another officer in the case, Millbrooke tells him he is a freelance journalist trying to expose corruption and drug use by Officer Murphy. The suit is pending. A review of the declarations by both Mr. Smith and Mr. Murphy do not include the details of the investigative report commissioned by The City Of Canby discussing Mr. Murphy’s prior demotion. Mr. Murphy also had a recent court decision regarding improper procedure [See Bonneau].
With pending motions to release the employment files of some Canby police officers to include Murphy, the charges against Traverso were dismissed this past May due the state delaying the case over 23 months.
Traverso, Deason and Jackson are all currently on probation. Traverso is awaiting trial on recent charges involving watermelon theft.
As the Federal Bureau of Investigation is listed as an investigative partner to MCSO in the Kyron Horman investigation, it is their policy not to release files where they are not the lead agency of record or during an ongoing criminal investigation .
Requests for comment from Kaine Horman through his attorney Brett Engel regarding the allegations that he has either purchased or sold illegal steroids have not been returned at the time of this publication.
However, in an article published to include a quote from Kaine Horman it seems that Kaine confirms Ms. Spicher’s assertion that Terri Horman did not use illegal steroids, but rather nutritional supplements and had moved past those very quickly after her bodybuilding competition.
“…Kaine said he noticed a sharp shift in her behavior, saying she became self-centered and short-tempered.
“She’s not eating a lot of food, she’s exercising twice a day, she’s up at 4 o’clock in the morning, she’s not sleeping at night so we get just general irritable behavior towards everyone around her,” he said.
He said she consumed over-the-counter stimulants, such as fat burners, in high doses. In four months between January and April, she shed 62 pounds, dropping from 185 to 123 pounds, he said.
At the end of April, with her muscles bulked up and skin glistening with a bronze tan, she competed in the Emerald Cup bodybuilding competition in Bellevue, Wash…”
S.Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief, www.blinkoncrime.com was able to independently confirm Ms. Spicher’s account of alleged steroid use and ensuing investigation of a gym member as told to her by Terri Horman.
The source, an associate of Terri Horman, DeDe Spicher and Kaine Horman who declined to be identified, went on to say that at the time it was “… really common knowledge who was using steroids and who was selling them…” “… was not aware previously that Terri Horman claimed to have instigated contact with law enforcement to turn in the seller…” The source declined to identify the seller and could not say for certain if he was charged and likely would not away- given the request not to disclose the source’s name on the record.
Reached for comment, Terri Moulton Horman Attorney Stephen Houze declined to comment based on his policy of not speaking publicly when a client has pending legal matters.
A request for comment to Mr. Bunch, Terri Horman’s divorce attorney has not been returned by the time of this publication.
More Questions Than Answers..
Following several hours of interviews with DeDe Spicher, the woman who was not a close friend to Terri Horman but ultimately was the closest to her in the early days of the investigation- are we left with more questions than answers about what could have happened to the little boy whose 11th birthday was 2 days ago?
Spicher concedes that anything she discussed as told to her by Terri Horman in some minor instances may only be verifiable by Horman herself- and she is not talking… Yet.
She also points out that ultimately everything she told me she shared with investigators as far as “truthfulness” was confirmed by a polygraph – to include the question “Was she withholding any information from investigators?”
She was not.
Although limited, Spicher’s accounts in many instances confirm sparse information heard early on from Terri herself. Not the least of which was that although widely criticized for not speaking out publicly, she was told by investigators not to under any circumstances- and when she broached the possibility of retaining counsel was told that she would then be cut off from any information as to the investigation process to find Kyron Horman.
Through Spicher, Horman also confirmed that out of concern for Horman’s “spacieness” which she defined by walking into a room and staring off, not remembering, etc, Terri Horman called his pediatrition Thursday June 3rd and made an appointment for Friday June 11th. His last day of school. Horman also told Spicher that Kyron had wondered off or got lost while in his teacher Ms. Porter’s care once before when following a fellow student out of class.
Initially, prior to learning Kyron had been marked absent not very long after she left the building, that was Horman’s first thought. Those hopes grew into panic with that revelation that he had been missing for hours.
Spicher says Terri was adamant that she never had a sexual relationship with the now infamous landscaper Rudy Sanchez Estrada Spicher agrees that her friend had the propensity to be flirtatious but she never knew her to be sexually promiscuous. Outside of the fact that she says at Kaine’s request to occasionally include an additional female in the bedroom, to which Spicher declined, she was not aware that the Horman’s had a swinger lifestyle.
To her knowledge, there were other women that were asked to participate in a threesome with the couple that did not say no some years ago, but had no current knowledge and she herself was never involved with Horman sexually.
In her take, the addition of a 3rd female was an expression of control on Kaine’s part in the relationship.
Terri explained the landscapers “sexual accosting” , previously reported exclusively by www.blinkoncrime this way:
“… She said she had Kitty on her hip and he came up behind her and was kissing her neck and put his arm around her and when she verbally resisted with concern that Kitty was in her arms he sort of grabbed her and she spun around and broke free…”
Spicher adds that on more than one occasion she tried to bring that up during meetings with DA Norm Frink and investigators. One one occasion, as suggested by her Father, a former Klamath County Marine Officer, at their own expense The Klamath County Sheriff and his first lieutenant had agreed to meet with Frink, Spicher and her father on DeDe’s behalf to sort of provide character backgrounds and family history he felt would be helpful in clearing her.
“… This came up in the first interview I had with Mr Frink and I told him she had made that call. Later in the interview when he was trying to push more of my buttons, he tells me that call never happened (implying Terri had lied to me). I told him okay, that’s what you’re telling me, but I recall it differently (implying he was lying to me right then). He got very angry about that and insisted it was “fact”. I said okay, whatever. Much later, like one of the last times I met with Mr Frink, the Klamath County Sheriff and his 1st Lieutenant flew up on their own dime to meet with Mr Frink & Keith Krafve to see if they could help by offering their opinion of my character, and that it didn’t seem unusual to them at all that I would go help Terri, that it is very consistent with how my family has always been. At that meeting, I retold the story of Rudy sexually accosting Terri (her words), but said I wasn’t sure about the 911 call. That totally infuriated Mr Frink. I told him I was trying to believe him and simply not certain about what I could remember on that point.
The DAs office behaved very strangely toward the Klamath Co Sheriff and his Lt. They tried everything they could to keep us separated and even insisted that they (the DAs office) drive them back to the airport, despite the fine fact that we (Dad & I) had picked them up and brought them in, and would definitely be seeing them again in the near future. It was just weird, to all of us…”
I asked DeDe if she used the term called 911 in every exchange. She had. I asked her if she got the impression that the reason Frink was so sure it never happened was because there was no 911 call on the record about it – could it be that maybe she reached out to that former law enforcement person she contacted on the steroid issue and it was actually a dispatch call versus a trackable 911 call issue.
Spicher says she got the impression that Frink was suggesting that the “accosting” as described by her friend did not happen, but could not be sure except to say that Frink seemed to become irate when she brought it up on every occasion. Spicher felt Sanchez Estrada was the only person behaving like a criminal and that supported the accounts she was given.
I asked DeDe if Terri mentioned ever paying Sanchez Estrada for work at the Horman home. She said she did not recall Terri ever saying anything other than she had no idea what he was talking about when he came to the door and asked for $10,000 so she slammed the door in his face and called 911.
Stoy: So did she think it was some sort of extortion attempt now that she had mentioned him to investigators and they told her that they had interviewed him?
Spicher: She thought that he was dangerous from her past experience.
Stoy: Did you think it was odd that with a brand new John Deere tractor parked outside that TH was hiring a landscaper? I was able to confirm through other sources that he cleared some blackberry or blueberry bushes similar to Ms. Von Klevelen, and the tractor does not have a UCC lien on it, meaning it was not financed.
Spicher: No, it wasn’t. Kaine bought it. It was Terri’s job to manage the inside of the house as well as the entire property. I knew that when Kaine would travel he would come up with this project lists for her to complete by the time he got home. I mean, like cleaning the gutters, cutting the grass, washing all the windows, that sort of thing. To the best of my recollection Terri and Kaine did not have bank accounts together- he controlled everything he made.
Stoy: With a baby, 7 year old and teenager and hubby out of town? How was she managing that? No wonder he was suggesting that she was pouring through money like water or something like that, she was probably hiring help. I am not even sure I think a woman by herself at that property with a baby should be on the roof by herself anyway.
Spicher: No, Terri had to pay any support money or whatever to the household expenses and I have surmised Kaine gave her some sort of allowance which she probably blew through pretty quickly on frivolous things like food and clothes for her children. I have never known Terri to be frivolous with money. I know of at least two times when the projects she was supposed to accomplish were impossible for her to manage. One was the windows so I believe she hired someone that time and as I recall her parents paid for that. I believe the other was the landscaper.
Stoy: Is it a fair question for me to ask how you feel about Kaine, from your tone I am sensing you are not a fan.
Spicher: I have tremendous compassion for Kaine- he lost his child- what can one even say about that? But no, he is not someone I would want to be friends with today and I was cordial to him whenever I was around him but he was very controlling and was pretty mean to Terri about her weight from Kitty, things like that- I am not going to have anything in common with that.
Stoy: Did Terri ever mention anything about conflicts with Desiree Young, whether they were between her and she or Kaine and Desiree?
Spicher: Not that I recall, but I also never heard her speak of Desiree negatively at any time previously or when I stayed with her [Terri].
Stoy: That is saying a lot because right after the sting Ms. Young was pretty accusatory pretty quickly- and I do note that was based on information from law enforcement. Similar to some of the things both she and Kaine said publicly about you. Are you angry about that?
Spicher: O my no. That poor woman is going through hell and acted on information that I was told, lie or not, was given to her and Kaine. I have nothing but compassion for her and I wish I could shoulder some of her pain because I can.. I have nothing but compassion for all of Kyron’s parents and any anger I have over how I was treated, what I went through would never be directed at them. I really pray that Kyron will be found, I choose to put my energy into hope for that.
Pending Matters
Through Attorney Bunch, Terri Horman makes the claim that both law enforcement and Kaine Horman have been perpetrating the dissemination of inaccurate information involving the circumstances of Kyron Horman’s disappearance.
In a recent filing, set for hearing this Friday, Bunch pens a scathing reply to Deputy O’Donnell’s motion to quash, and accuses the county of improper ex parte communication.
Early this afternoon, a source within the Multnomah County Courthouse speaking on the condition of anonymity has confirmed that on behalf of Multnomah County, a motion has been filed to limit certain documents or discoverable information related to Mr. Horman and Bobby O’Donnell of the MCSO.
A hearing is scheduled before Judge Kantor for this Friday September 13, 2013
Jacqueline Beaufort, Ellie Sanders – research and contributing editors to this article.
I didn’t hear the baby’s name either. The real baby at issue seems to be “the investigation” and the (DOJ) lawyers and the DA for said “baby” keep coming to court to make sure their baby is protected. Forget Baby K, apparently.
Is there anyway to get BKH’s financials from the IRS?
not from the IRS, but they can be requested from the Kyron Horman Foundation directly. My resources show nothing has been filed since in 2012 the 2010 filing you have already seen.
B
Rose, I dont know anything about that lawyer except that he is suspended from practice. Looks to have some sort of personal issue with the Bar at large.
B
@TRuth, That is why I think the whole notion that TH had thought out the stepsiblings law and planned Kyron’s disappearance is bogus. How she could be so knowledgeable about the intricacies of family law, and not understand the basics is just not logical. Never mind the fact that we now learn there was a language barrier. Did anyone look to see if the blackberry bushes were removed, or maybe he thought she said remove my kids, FTLOG.
I just googled Horman postponed hearing to look for Friday, & to my chagrin a wealth of pages came up with the words postpone & delay associated with Kaine having done so wrt hearings repeatedly, dating back to 2011.
Seems to have been his consistent custody retention strategy. I hope Vinh looks at this as part of his overall severing strategy îmo.
“I feel that no matter the size of her city it has a small town mentality and needs outsiders to probe this situation.”
snipped
*****************
It is unfortunate that most people seem think that the people stalking Terri Horman are from Roseburg. The majority, if not all of them are not. Even the people who started the Roseburg hates TMH FB, or whatever the hell it was called were from somewhere far away,some from another country in fact, can’t remember where now.
I suppose if one wanted to know where these people actually hailed from, one could ask Desiree, she knows.
claiming certain experience, published on a firm website, I would expect more specificity. This one lacks specificity.
ie, DC Corporation Counsel internship. doesn’t say his internship placement Section–adult felonies, or misdemeanors, juvenile criminal, child abuse & neglect section, etc
..”..co-authored an article on an international law subject that was eventually published in a respected international law journal.”
Why not give article title, journal name, & publication date?
“During law school he worked for the Oregon Department of Justice before working for a private firm in downtown Portland.”
Why not insert name of office, or at least of work substance?
I think the way around the ethical rules is to say you have “an exclusive area of practice” without claiming to be a specialist, and list specific work performed.
here is an example of firm social media specificity when indirectly claiming expertise: http://vsg-law.com
They do what Houze does: list your cases.
In my opinion, if this resume were submitted to me for employment, I would have many questions. I expect a member of the OR Bar will bring this to his attention, mentoring him supportively, so screen shot now.
@Blink. imo he was more than righteously disbarred. As imo he should have been.
But that doesn’t mean his judgement about candidates running for office
was not sound, just that he himself was found to have repeatedly violated numerous Rules. .
TRuth says, It is unfortunate that most people seem think that the people stalking Terri Horman are from Roseburg. The majority, if not all of them are not. Even the people who started the Roseburg hates TMH FB, or whatever the hell it was called were from somewhere far away,some from another country in fact, can’t remember where now.
I suppose if one wanted to know where these people actually hailed from, one could ask Desiree, she knows.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
When chatting with an acquaintance who lives in T’s neighborhood, to my question about how neighbors feel about the people coming to stand in front of T’s house, she said that neighbors have asked these outsiders why they do this, why they keep coming. the answer: Desiree wants us here.
None. Under Oregon law, as expressly observed by Houze, lawyers are not permitted to discuss pending cases publicly that may be construed as outcome.
B
_____
I had not been aware of that Blink. Can you expand on “that may be construed as outcome”? Are you saying an attorney may not comment on their opinion of what the outcome will be?
In a general sense, discussing anything about a client matter with pending litigation could be construed as it’s counsel doing so to affect public opinion, influence a jury pool, and effect or predict outcome. I could probably write a blog on what I know about this in particular because it tends to happen in many cases I work on. I have seen a downward trend in it in areas where the jurisdiction never really cared about it until a high profile case.
A recent example is Joe Tacopina in the Irwin case. He was spewing all over the news with a client agreement that is technically illegal where he is not licensed unless he had a pro hac vice.. and I pointed that out
SO then he did, and by doing so, made media arrangements the local atty did not agree with and resigned. Under that jurisdiction there are specific parameters as to how a “visiting” or reciprocity privilege atty can function. Never heard a peep from him since. Taco is a fine criminal attorney, the instant matter notwithstanding, he went into the “high profile” arena a ala Jose Baez at a time when folks were done with that, really.
In addition, Houze is a master of PR. I say this glibly of course, but in a recent email to a lawyer pal I said I feel like committing a crime in Oregon just to study him.
B
erose says: (snipped) How she could be so knowledgeable about the intricacies of family law, and not understand the basics is just not logical…
_____
Yes, I agree and it is why I was reluctant to see that as a motive. Upon further thinking though I realized that Kaine may have gotten into her head and convinced Terri this was a real possibility. Then I realized that it does weigh in the final decision of who retains custody.
As an example, in a case I am aware of, a parent was allegedly killed so the step parent would retain custody of both the bio child and the step child because had the mother remained alive she most assuredly would have retained custody of both children, one of the reasons being so as not to separate the two kids.
This regards Kyron and not the divorce so is off topic to the discussion ATM.
A poster at Scared Monkeys brought forward an article written June 5th, 2010. In it the reporter indicates Kyron and Terri were on two different stairwells the last time she saw him. If true, that explains why while on Dr Phil, Desiree states Terri’s story could not have been possible… that the wall was in the way of Terri seeing Kyron walk to his classroom.
CW 618 posted on Scared Monkeys:
“@ about 2:24 Lieutenant Mary Lindstrand, says that she was told
that the stepmother went up one stairwell and kyron another stairwell
and she saw kyron walking down the hall toward his classroom” http://www.katu.com/news/local/95691389.html?tab=video&c=y
here are my notes from the emergency hearing yesterday. my comments/interpretations are in italics. engel does not speak into microphone and uses many words to make statements so I had to summarize. be sure to read other docs released by oregonian and KPTV to get deposition info etc.
@Ruth it was my intention with my post on the comments left with regards to TMH to point out that outside light must shine on this situation. It was not my intent to imply that the people of this city have a small town mentality but rather law enforcement/judicial folks behave like they do and need an outside, high profile, light to shine on them and their actions.
Apologies to any unintended offense I may have caused. Just feel like if some outside reporter decided to focus on this and do some FOIA forms and then published he/she story on a national level maybe some pressure could be brought on law enforcement to well basically cut the crap.
This has been bugging me. (no offense. lol) But did you catch what Kantor said, as an aside after Rees gave the speil. The one where Rees said two things.
1. That he “thought” the MFH “limit” was 6 years. (He was wrong and even Max corrected it without stating She knew that Oregon state law says there is no limit).
2. That this case is the same as it’s always been with an ongoing investigation that should not be interferred with.
Then, I am almost sure I heard Kantor say that he knew Houze knew the statute and so this was (Houze’s) “strategy” or something like that. Anyway, right after that I noticed a look Houze gave to Bunch. One of, I would venture…eye roll disgust. As if they knew right then that Houze was going to rule against them.
Are my “senses” correct? Did you feel even the inclusion of Rees into the picture, invited by Kantor, was turning point in the arguement yesterday?
If so what does the statute of limitations (and there isn’t one here with a MFH) have to do with Houze’s strategy, short or long term?
@Rose. And how many times did Kantor rule to allow DY and TY to delay deposition and for a PO for DY. After TMH’s team allowed depos of James and Dede?
Does Kantor already have the fed. bench in the bag?
One has to question the intent of the state regarding getting Sanchez testimony and not allowing cross by Houze.
It also appears that Kantor is hoping to be educated by the briefs he is requiring. At this point, IMO Kantor is in a place where he could rule and then the case be moved to appeal. Is this what the court wants?
The major problem is what should be done about Kiara. This child needs legal protection now. If the court wants to do the right thing, it must assign a GAL at the next hearing. This should have been done immediately at the time of the first hearing.
Maxine Bernstein @maxoregonian 22m
Hearing scheduled for Thurs on Terri Moulton Horman’s motion for temporary custody of Kiara has been postponed, at her lawyers’ request
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/12/terri_moulton_hormans_lawyers.html#incart_river
A more evenhanded, fact-based article.
I am disappointed the inevitable Rackner-orchestrated postponement is for Respondant’s brief & Engel’s response to the response. Imo it was extraordinary JK did not rule on the fully Briefed Question of full Cross or exclude based on his own law clerk’s work, without more. I had hoped postponement was secondary to recusal plan. Imo the McKnight Family Court Bench is self immolating on JK’s inexperience & idiosyncratic ways.
@Blink. I don’t think Houze a master of PR, but a master of the fine line ethical attorneys must walk.
Which is not hard at all if you go to a handful of CEUs a year ( which I failed at doing)
& pay attention to Bar rules. Bar rules applied are really very easy, but I have seen, in those hotel banquet 1 day classrooms, so many (usually men) who are narcisstic & think they are above it all & can do as they please. Or, are just stupid. I mean, really, attorneys reflect the %age weaknesses of the general population just like steroid users.
Chalk one up for Blink! (wait….didn’t TMH say something like that?)
No new date……..hmmmmm? I am with most all of you….even those of you who think TMH is guilty are wondering why a GAL has never been appointed for the Horman’s young daughter. It’s way past time to get this show on the road. And, btw, where is Kyron? I think he needs a GAL too! There is apparently no evidence he is deceased, who is looking out for his interests if he is not?
Seriously, someone acting in these children’s (both Kyron and his sister K), needs to step in and appointment a GAL. Immediately.
I am amazed that BunchofHouzes has not brought that up, knowing what his wife does for a living. Something is wrong there too. Why has this not been done?
Sorry, I posted before GH post was up about the postponement, I’m really not quite that lame. LOL
*************
A Texas Grandfather says:
December 17, 2013 at 7:57 pm
One has to question the intent of the state regarding getting Sanchez testimony and not allowing cross by Houze.
It also appears that Kantor is hoping to be educated by the briefs he is requiring. At this point, IMO Kantor is in a place where he could rule and then the case be moved to appeal. Is this what the court wants?
(snipped)
**************
Agree with your post 100%. (All of it, even the unsnipped part) I think Kantor is and has been *learning* a lot from this whole thing.
Just what does it take to get a GAL for Kitty?
Blink and many others have been pointing out this obvious for weeks … months … years.
Can Dr Vien order a GAL appointed?
Will he?
All these years and not a peep from CPS concerning Kitty’s rights and protection.
I assume the request for CPS involvement and a GAL was not allowed to have come from Houze/Bunch.
But how is it that thru all these years no “John Q Public” has dropped a dime on CPS to at least initiate an investigation concerning Kitty’s 3+ years of ZERO protection or representation.
Just wondering how this process normally gets initiated … (as it should have been years ago).
This has also been discussed by Blink and many BOC’ers over the past couple days – but each time I go back and read the link to the portion of Engels affidavit … it just has me LOL, LOL’ing.
Engel sounds like he is truly believing his own BS.
I keep having a hilarious visual of Engel in his “Super-Sleuth” tights & cape.
Or perhaps a “no shit” Sherlock hat & pipe.
(snip from Engel’s 12/16/13 affidavit)
“Actually, there is quite a bit of public information regarding this case on the Internet posted by bloggers, sleuths, and laypersons interested in helping locate Kyron Horman. Through my own research, I obtained Mr Sanchez’s
name. I then located Mr Sanchez with no assistance from Law Enforcement.”
(end snip)
vw says:
December 17, 2013 at 4:23 pm
@Grasshopper
This has been bugging me. (no offense. lol) But did you catch what Kantor said, as an aside after Rees gave the speil. The one where Rees said two things.
1. That he “thought” the MFH “limit” was 6 years. (He was wrong and even Max corrected it without stating She knew that Oregon state law says there is no limit).
2. That this case is the same as it’s always been with an ongoing investigation that should not be interferred with.
Then, I am almost sure I heard Kantor say that he knew Houze knew the statute and so this was (Houze’s) “strategy” or something like that. Anyway, right after that I noticed a look Houze gave to Bunch. One of, I would venture…eye roll disgust. As if they knew right then that Houze was going to rule against them.
Are my “senses” correct? Did you feel even the inclusion of Rees into the picture, invited by Kantor, was turning point in the arguement yesterday?
If so what does the statute of limitations (and there isn’t one here with a MFH) have to do with Houze’s strategy, short or long term?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I know exactly the comment you mean, and didn’t get it written into my notes because it was an aside. The closest recollection I have is (from Kantor):Mr. Houze no doubt has a reason why he did not choose to comment on statue of limitations.
it was an odd thing to say I thought. irritated? (when I say jump you jump since I am judge) disparaging? but it was odd of judge to ask Houze the question in the first place when kantor himself had brought Rees into the discussion, and it is Rees’s job to know this very thing (tho he did not!!!) maybe Kantor was irritated that it made Rees look silly. but if the judge originally asked Houze without thinking it through, there was no reason at all to comment afterward.
I can’t say that I recognized Rees speaking as being turning point. I was too busy being disgusted with his presence there. and I was appalled when Kantor effectively invited him to thurs & friday’s hearing, for which R thanked him. that was blatantly offensive to Bunch’s frequent protests at R being allowed to participate. I could not see Houze or Bunch’s faces from where I was sitting so don’t know about eye roll but I sure would like it if they did! tho I kind of doubt if Houze would ever reveal that much emotion in court.
I don’t remember that Houze ever brought up statute of limitations. judge has brought it up at least twice now, different hearings. It is possible that Houze did not want to speak the words MFH statute of limitations because it might have then been used in some cobbled together media sound byte with their own creative interpretation.
vw, remember when Engel was complaining about T not answering his questions at deposition, that she took 5th. did you remember his tone and expression being disparaging?
I wonder who found Adam Thayne for RSE. Rackner? knowing him from DOJ? I’d have thought that RSE if left to his own devices would seek out a hispanic. More to the point, who is paying him?
I am pretty sure Kantor was going to allow the cross examination of RSE, just not in relation to the sting. I know some reports have not been clear on that but that is my interpretation. Here is one link that states:
“Kantor Monday had asked lawyers from each side to submit additional legal briefs before the scheduled Thursday hearing on how the court should weigh Sanchez’s testimony in the child custody case, since Terri Horman’s lawyers would be restricted from delving fully into the landscaper’s credibility.”…
…”Terri Horman’s lawyers said they needed more time to submit their legal briefs. Kantor has postponed Thursday’s hearing. A new date has not been set.”
“vw, remember when Engel was complaining about T not answering his questions at deposition, that she took 5th. did you remember his tone and expression being disparaging?”
Of course I do. And that snarky remark about the “war chest” of money TMH has. Both remarks were strategically placed, dripping in sarcasm and meant for a “sound-bite” …. and he got what he wanted, didn’t he?
Maxine had the tact to not mention the out-of-context $$$ insult to the Moultons. Not Kyle. Jumped right on it. I am so not impressed with that little man. He is still crawling all over Kaine. Bet he likes his abs.
(Sorry…just PO’d at his lack of real reporting vs Maxine’s). Maxine didn’t even go out to interview Kaine. Instead she asked Houze a question as he was leaving. And I did not see one bit of bias in her writing up of the court doings.
You know, I think the tweeting, if you aren’t “a-twitter” with someone’s abs, is a really great way for an investigative reporter to get in all sides of a controversial story. You must pay attention and then relay all that you are looking at – rather than what you are looking for, for a soundbite.
@GH
I wonder who found Adam Thayne for RSE. Rackner? knowing him from DOJ? I’d have thought that RSE if left to his own devices would seek out a hispanic. More to the point, who is paying him?
======
Slight, but possible chance he found him through the circle’s of hispanic families that might need a bilingual criminal lawyer.
But with main offices in west portland, Engels might have steered him that way.
Who is paying? Underthehill volunteering his june 2010 OT? Rackner’s office got a pro-bono?
DOJ is state. And Thayne worked with hispanic judges, etc. Look at his resume.
Bigger question. Why a criminal vs an immigration lawyer?
I have never heard of a lawyer specializing in criminal and bktcy- is it just me?
B
@Grass. wrt “Mr. Houze no doubt has a reason why he did not choose to comment on statue of limitations.”
Entrapment, on Kantor’s part.
If a Judge wanted that info legitimately, he’d ask his law clerk to look it up for him. Period. Asking attorney on the record was duplicitous imo.
Kantor wanted the criminal attorney On The Record, indirectly acknowledging the mfh as criminal matter subject matter (=exclusion justified). Eye roll. Have I mentioned this Judge is someone’s (maybe his own) “dummy.”
8.085 APPOINTMENT OF COUNSEL FOR CHILDREN
The Court may appoint counsel for children in cases arising under ORS Chapter 107 upon its own motion or upon motion of either party pursuant to ORS 107.425(3), and shall appoint counsel if requested to do so by one or more of the children. A reasonable fee may be imposed by the Court against either or both of the parties or as a cost in the proceedings.
The procedure for appointment of counsel for children in cases arising under ORS Chapters 107-109 shall be as follows:
(1) In its sole discretion, the Court may appoint counsel for the children on its own motion with
PDF Page 55 of 131
Supplementary Local Rules Fourth Judicial District, Circuit Court of the State of Oregon for Multnomah County Effective February 1, 2012 48
or without prior notice to the parties.
(2) A person requesting appointment of counsel for a child or children must petition the Court for an order setting forth the reasons for such request. After reasonable notice to all parties, the person seeking such appointment shall appear and request an Order Appointing Counsel.
(3) The Court will appoint counsel where requested to do so by one or more children.
(4) Orders appointing counsel issued by the Court may contain provision for payment of attorney fees and terms for payment. No Order will be issued until counsel has agreed to accept such appointment upon the fee terms set forth.
(5) To the extent possible, appointed counsel will represent their clients’ legal interests in obtaining a secure, stable home life and a balanced relationship with both parents and will be answerable only to their client and to the Court. The parents or persons having physical custody of the child shall cooperate in allowing counsel opportunity for private consultation with the child or children, including making or assisting with arrangements for the children’s transportation to the attorneys’ office or some other reasonable meeting place and reasonable phone communication if needed.
(6) Counsel to be appointed for children shall meet the Court’s standards for qualification in family law matters and in the resolution of custody/parenting time issues.
courts.oregon.gov/Multnomah/docs/CourtRules/SLR2012Effective… · PDF file
What if I ask the court to give my child a lawyer, but the court does not agree?
You have the right to ask for a lawyer for your child, but the court does not have to appoint one. If this happens in your case, you may:
•Hire a lawyer for your child, or
•Ask Family Services to evaluate your case.
This should be a federal children’s rights statute, IMO.
If the court has no concern for the immediate welfare of the children, the parties will be given the opportunity to mediate custody and placement issues before a GAL is appointed. By statutory directive in the state I practice in (Wisconsin), the court must promptly appoint a GAL if mediation fails.
@Amys Sister. Estrada’s allegation wife expressed a wish her husband die while soliciting his assistance with same is inextricably intertwined with the Sting designed to provide coorboration as well as document she took an actual step to same (meeting the Statute). Rather than coorborating Mr Estrada, the Sting was exculpatory, & impeaches his credibility. The Last Meeting is both the Best Evidence, and only objective evidence, impeaching Estrada’s story. Only a fool would keep it out while letting the former in.
Moreover, in my opinion, Rees is fighting probing this exculpatory evidence because likely the Sting as designed & executed was illegal itself. Either it was Entrapment (which the Portland FBI Field Office is no stranger to), or it was based on a fraudulant probable cause representation to a Judge (ie what were yhe “words” of Estrada quoted by affidavit? Did he sign an affidavit in English he can’t read? etc) such that even if his story had been vindicated, evidence obtained in an illegal Sting couldn’t be used anyway: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree
yes Rose, that has long been my fear as you know.
B
I realize comparing this to the Horman case is apples to oranges, but interesting none the less.
You’ve heard of suing for custody, right? Well, have you ever heard of suing the judge in your child custody battle? That’s what a mom in Manhattan is doing. She’s suing the family court referee who has been overseeing her custody case for the past three years.
(NelMel mumblin’ something about needing more spaghetti…)
I have no other conclusion to make.
LE and DA and Kantor and everyone involved are going to put TMH on “trial” and attempt to convict her of a crime via a civil divorce/custody battle. They believe that they can do this, so, that is what they will do. They don’t care about such neener-neener things as due process. Nope. In the Portland area, criminal trials conveniently occur during divorce and custody hearings. Think of the money this saves!
Perhaps they can eventually just shut down the DA’s office, except for one prosecutor who hops about to attend all the divorce and custody hearings with a police officer, and he can get the estranged or ex-wives arrested for…oh…something! Hair flips! She flipped her hair, your honor! Did you see that? Right off her shoulder!!
Next perhaps I will read that a woman in the greater Portland area was convicted of a felony and sentenced to 25-life after she paid a parking ticket.
RE: Amys Sister says:
December 18, 2013 at 1:51 am
I am pretty sure Kantor was going to allow the cross examination of RSE, just not in relation to the sting. I know some reports have not been clear on that but that is my interpretation. Here is one link that states:
*****
Agreed. It makes a big difference constitutionally and otherwise that the matter is civil and not criminal.
@Grass. probably time at the Portland firm just after DOJ is more relevant.
neither the DOJ Office nor job title or the subsequent firm are on this resume.
I do not think that’s the norm.
@Blink. wrt “I have never heard of a lawyer specializing in criminal and bktcy- is it just me?
B” As I posted above, it is risky for any attorney to use the language “specializes in” in firm advertising, unless one wants to ski down Aloha Attorney’s hill. But, were I to guess, Portland must have lots of bankruptcies & crime. Maybe he’s repped landscapers busted for steroids in Canby. Who knows as resume is not apecific. It amazes me the people drawn to this case from LE to Judge…. (not to mention the threatening comments histed ny OLive on today.)
Terri has the right to remain silent and the DA has the right to protect the investigation. That’s what everything in this civil case hinges on and what makes it so fascinating.
If Houze can show the court there is no MFH investigation and that the sting had nothing to do with Kyron then the sting testimony will be allowed. Without showing those two things there is no way that testimony will be allowed, IMO. Kantor cannot rule any other way.
IMO if allowed the sting does show Terri’s level of savvy but it would take more to show RSE testimony that Terri was feeling the waters to have her husband killed was either misinterpreted or simply not true.
Mostly, I wonder how the depositions of school staff went because finding Kyron is priority and if they can show Terri was not the last person to see him then everyone can turn their attention to finding the person who took the child from Skyline.
I didn’t hear the baby’s name either. The real baby at issue seems to be “the investigation” and the (DOJ) lawyers and the DA for said “baby” keep coming to court to make sure their baby is protected. Forget Baby K, apparently.
So much for Mult Co Schools.
So much for Mult Co Courts.
wrt whotalking facebook terri horman (google)
http://facebook.whotalking.com/post/Terri+Horman
So what’s the FB page listed here called “Don’t Blink” ?
another mole? (just above TJ)
Is there anyway to get BKH’s financials from the IRS?
not from the IRS, but they can be requested from the Kyron Horman Foundation directly. My resources show nothing has been filed since in 2012 the 2010 filing you have already seen.
B
Aloha Attorney said “Multnomah County — Henry Kantor: Not qualified.
Has no judicial skills nor acumen for the job. He may even be dangerous in that position. ”
http://www.bulletinsfromaloha.org/weekly/2008/4/23/judicial-elections-do-you-know-who-the-candidates-are-at-you.html
Rose, I dont know anything about that lawyer except that he is suspended from practice. Looks to have some sort of personal issue with the Bar at large.
B
Lots of stuff I do not understand here but I want to add my thanks to VW and Grasshopper
You are really appreciated
Ditto!
B
@TRuth, That is why I think the whole notion that TH had thought out the stepsiblings law and planned Kyron’s disappearance is bogus. How she could be so knowledgeable about the intricacies of family law, and not understand the basics is just not logical. Never mind the fact that we now learn there was a language barrier. Did anyone look to see if the blackberry bushes were removed, or maybe he thought she said remove my kids, FTLOG.
T. Ruth says:
December 16, 2013 at 7:56 pm
I just googled Horman postponed hearing to look for Friday, & to my chagrin a wealth of pages came up with the words postpone & delay associated with Kaine having done so wrt hearings repeatedly, dating back to 2011.
Seems to have been his consistent custody retention strategy. I hope Vinh looks at this as part of his overall severing strategy îmo.
I always wonder why the mayor at the time interjected him in this case that one time. . .
I also wonder who polices the police. . .
@Sharon Mulhern says: December 16, 2013 at 10:27 pm
@tiberious says:
December 16, 2013 at 9:08 pm
“I feel that no matter the size of her city it has a small town mentality and needs outsiders to probe this situation.”
snipped
*****************
It is unfortunate that most people seem think that the people stalking Terri Horman are from Roseburg. The majority, if not all of them are not. Even the people who started the Roseburg hates TMH FB, or whatever the hell it was called were from somewhere far away,some from another country in fact, can’t remember where now.
I suppose if one wanted to know where these people actually hailed from, one could ask Desiree, she knows.
http://www.shortlawgroup.com/Legal-Team/Adam-R-Thayne.shtml
claiming certain experience, published on a firm website, I would expect more specificity. This one lacks specificity.
ie, DC Corporation Counsel internship. doesn’t say his internship placement Section–adult felonies, or misdemeanors, juvenile criminal, child abuse & neglect section, etc
..”..co-authored an article on an international law subject that was eventually published in a respected international law journal.”
Why not give article title, journal name, & publication date?
“During law school he worked for the Oregon Department of Justice before working for a private firm in downtown Portland.”
Why not insert name of office, or at least of work substance?
http://www.americanbar.org/newsletter/publications/youraba/201303article11.html
“Similarly, when a lawyer claims to be a specialist or to have special skills or ability in a certain area, many courts will use a higher standard of care to evaluate the lawyer’s legal services”
I think the way around the ethical rules is to say you have “an exclusive area of practice” without claiming to be a specialist, and list specific work performed.
here is an example of firm social media specificity when indirectly claiming expertise:
http://vsg-law.com
They do what Houze does: list your cases.
In my opinion, if this resume were submitted to me for employment, I would have many questions. I expect a member of the OR Bar will bring this to his attention, mentoring him supportively, so screen shot now.
@Blink. imo he was more than righteously disbarred. As imo he should have been.
But that doesn’t mean his judgement about candidates running for office
was not sound, just that he himself was found to have repeatedly violated numerous Rules. .
@TRuth. Australia.
TRuth says, It is unfortunate that most people seem think that the people stalking Terri Horman are from Roseburg. The majority, if not all of them are not. Even the people who started the Roseburg hates TMH FB, or whatever the hell it was called were from somewhere far away,some from another country in fact, can’t remember where now.
I suppose if one wanted to know where these people actually hailed from, one could ask Desiree, she knows.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
When chatting with an acquaintance who lives in T’s neighborhood, to my question about how neighbors feel about the people coming to stand in front of T’s house, she said that neighbors have asked these outsiders why they do this, why they keep coming. the answer: Desiree wants us here.
None. Under Oregon law, as expressly observed by Houze, lawyers are not permitted to discuss pending cases publicly that may be construed as outcome.
B
_____
I had not been aware of that Blink. Can you expand on “that may be construed as outcome”? Are you saying an attorney may not comment on their opinion of what the outcome will be?
In a general sense, discussing anything about a client matter with pending litigation could be construed as it’s counsel doing so to affect public opinion, influence a jury pool, and effect or predict outcome. I could probably write a blog on what I know about this in particular because it tends to happen in many cases I work on. I have seen a downward trend in it in areas where the jurisdiction never really cared about it until a high profile case.
A recent example is Joe Tacopina in the Irwin case. He was spewing all over the news with a client agreement that is technically illegal where he is not licensed unless he had a pro hac vice.. and I pointed that out
SO then he did, and by doing so, made media arrangements the local atty did not agree with and resigned. Under that jurisdiction there are specific parameters as to how a “visiting” or reciprocity privilege atty can function. Never heard a peep from him since. Taco is a fine criminal attorney, the instant matter notwithstanding, he went into the “high profile” arena a ala Jose Baez at a time when folks were done with that, really.
In addition, Houze is a master of PR. I say this glibly of course, but in a recent email to a lawyer pal I said I feel like committing a crime in Oregon just to study him.
B
erose says: (snipped) How she could be so knowledgeable about the intricacies of family law, and not understand the basics is just not logical…
_____
Yes, I agree and it is why I was reluctant to see that as a motive. Upon further thinking though I realized that Kaine may have gotten into her head and convinced Terri this was a real possibility. Then I realized that it does weigh in the final decision of who retains custody.
As an example, in a case I am aware of, a parent was allegedly killed so the step parent would retain custody of both the bio child and the step child because had the mother remained alive she most assuredly would have retained custody of both children, one of the reasons being so as not to separate the two kids.
This regards Kyron and not the divorce so is off topic to the discussion ATM.
A poster at Scared Monkeys brought forward an article written June 5th, 2010. In it the reporter indicates Kyron and Terri were on two different stairwells the last time she saw him. If true, that explains why while on Dr Phil, Desiree states Terri’s story could not have been possible… that the wall was in the way of Terri seeing Kyron walk to his classroom.
CW 618 posted on Scared Monkeys:
“@ about 2:24 Lieutenant Mary Lindstrand, says that she was told
that the stepmother went up one stairwell and kyron another stairwell
and she saw kyron walking down the hall toward his classroom”
http://www.katu.com/news/local/95691389.html?tab=video&c=y
here are my notes from the emergency hearing yesterday. my comments/interpretations are in italics. engel does not speak into microphone and uses many words to make statements so I had to summarize. be sure to read other docs released by oregonian and KPTV to get deposition info etc.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10147993/Emergency%20Hearing%20Dec%2016.pdf
@Ruth it was my intention with my post on the comments left with regards to TMH to point out that outside light must shine on this situation. It was not my intent to imply that the people of this city have a small town mentality but rather law enforcement/judicial folks behave like they do and need an outside, high profile, light to shine on them and their actions.
Apologies to any unintended offense I may have caused. Just feel like if some outside reporter decided to focus on this and do some FOIA forms and then published he/she story on a national level maybe some pressure could be brought on law enforcement to well basically cut the crap.
Again apologies …
@Grasshopper
This has been bugging me. (no offense. lol) But did you catch what Kantor said, as an aside after Rees gave the speil. The one where Rees said two things.
1. That he “thought” the MFH “limit” was 6 years. (He was wrong and even Max corrected it without stating She knew that Oregon state law says there is no limit).
2. That this case is the same as it’s always been with an ongoing investigation that should not be interferred with.
Then, I am almost sure I heard Kantor say that he knew Houze knew the statute and so this was (Houze’s) “strategy” or something like that. Anyway, right after that I noticed a look Houze gave to Bunch. One of, I would venture…eye roll disgust. As if they knew right then that Houze was going to rule against them.
Are my “senses” correct? Did you feel even the inclusion of Rees into the picture, invited by Kantor, was turning point in the arguement yesterday?
If so what does the statute of limitations (and there isn’t one here with a MFH) have to do with Houze’s strategy, short or long term?
@Rose. And how many times did Kantor rule to allow DY and TY to delay deposition and for a PO for DY. After TMH’s team allowed depos of James and Dede?
Does Kantor already have the fed. bench in the bag?
One has to question the intent of the state regarding getting Sanchez testimony and not allowing cross by Houze.
It also appears that Kantor is hoping to be educated by the briefs he is requiring. At this point, IMO Kantor is in a place where he could rule and then the case be moved to appeal. Is this what the court wants?
The major problem is what should be done about Kiara. This child needs legal protection now. If the court wants to do the right thing, it must assign a GAL at the next hearing. This should have been done immediately at the time of the first hearing.
max just tweeted this
Maxine Bernstein @maxoregonian 22m
Hearing scheduled for Thurs on Terri Moulton Horman’s motion for temporary custody of Kiara has been postponed, at her lawyers’ request
4:51 PM – 17 Dec 13
https://twitter.com/maxoregonian
I’m confused, has the hearing been postponed yay or nay?
*********
All this stuff from Engel brought me a new earworm, so I thought I’d share (Big grin):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAGyENr3_44
http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/joe_south/games_people_play.html
@Rose. NVM question above. Looked it up. Aspirations only, it seems. What’s his connections with Wyden is my slight interest.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/12/terri_moulton_hormans_lawyers.html#incart_river
A more evenhanded, fact-based article.
I am disappointed the inevitable Rackner-orchestrated postponement is for Respondant’s brief & Engel’s response to the response. Imo it was extraordinary JK did not rule on the fully Briefed Question of full Cross or exclude based on his own law clerk’s work, without more. I had hoped postponement was secondary to recusal plan. Imo the McKnight Family Court Bench is self immolating on JK’s inexperience & idiosyncratic ways.
@Blink. I don’t think Houze a master of PR, but a master of the fine line ethical attorneys must walk.
Which is not hard at all if you go to a handful of CEUs a year ( which I failed at doing)
& pay attention to Bar rules. Bar rules applied are really very easy, but I have seen, in those hotel banquet 1 day classrooms, so many (usually men) who are narcisstic & think they are above it all & can do as they please. Or, are just stupid. I mean, really, attorneys reflect the %age weaknesses of the general population just like steroid users.
Terri Horman’s lawyers said they needed more time to submit their legal briefs. Kantor has postponed Thursday’s hearing. A new date has not been set.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/12/terri_moulton_hormans_lawyers.html
Chalk one up for Blink! (wait….didn’t TMH say something like that?)
No new date……..hmmmmm? I am with most all of you….even those of you who think TMH is guilty are wondering why a GAL has never been appointed for the Horman’s young daughter. It’s way past time to get this show on the road. And, btw, where is Kyron? I think he needs a GAL too! There is apparently no evidence he is deceased, who is looking out for his interests if he is not?
Seriously, someone acting in these children’s (both Kyron and his sister K), needs to step in and appointment a GAL. Immediately.
I am amazed that BunchofHouzes has not brought that up, knowing what his wife does for a living. Something is wrong there too. Why has this not been done?
Sorry, I posted before GH post was up about the postponement, I’m really not quite that lame. LOL
*************
A Texas Grandfather says:
December 17, 2013 at 7:57 pm
One has to question the intent of the state regarding getting Sanchez testimony and not allowing cross by Houze.
It also appears that Kantor is hoping to be educated by the briefs he is requiring. At this point, IMO Kantor is in a place where he could rule and then the case be moved to appeal. Is this what the court wants?
(snipped)
**************
Agree with your post 100%. (All of it, even the unsnipped part) I think Kantor is and has been *learning* a lot from this whole thing.
Just what does it take to get a GAL for Kitty?
Blink and many others have been pointing out this obvious for weeks … months … years.
Can Dr Vien order a GAL appointed?
Will he?
All these years and not a peep from CPS concerning Kitty’s rights and protection.
I assume the request for CPS involvement and a GAL was not allowed to have come from Houze/Bunch.
But how is it that thru all these years no “John Q Public” has dropped a dime on CPS to at least initiate an investigation concerning Kitty’s 3+ years of ZERO protection or representation.
Just wondering how this process normally gets initiated … (as it should have been years ago).
This has also been discussed by Blink and many BOC’ers over the past couple days – but each time I go back and read the link to the portion of Engels affidavit … it just has me LOL, LOL’ing.
Engel sounds like he is truly believing his own BS.
I keep having a hilarious visual of Engel in his “Super-Sleuth” tights & cape.
Or perhaps a “no shit” Sherlock hat & pipe.
(snip from Engel’s 12/16/13 affidavit)
“Actually, there is quite a bit of public information regarding this case on the Internet posted by bloggers, sleuths, and laypersons interested in helping locate Kyron Horman. Through my own research, I obtained Mr Sanchez’s
name. I then located Mr Sanchez with no assistance from Law Enforcement.”
(end snip)
Really Sherlock?
vw says:
December 17, 2013 at 4:23 pm
@Grasshopper
This has been bugging me. (no offense. lol) But did you catch what Kantor said, as an aside after Rees gave the speil. The one where Rees said two things.
1. That he “thought” the MFH “limit” was 6 years. (He was wrong and even Max corrected it without stating She knew that Oregon state law says there is no limit).
2. That this case is the same as it’s always been with an ongoing investigation that should not be interferred with.
Then, I am almost sure I heard Kantor say that he knew Houze knew the statute and so this was (Houze’s) “strategy” or something like that. Anyway, right after that I noticed a look Houze gave to Bunch. One of, I would venture…eye roll disgust. As if they knew right then that Houze was going to rule against them.
Are my “senses” correct? Did you feel even the inclusion of Rees into the picture, invited by Kantor, was turning point in the arguement yesterday?
If so what does the statute of limitations (and there isn’t one here with a MFH) have to do with Houze’s strategy, short or long term?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I know exactly the comment you mean, and didn’t get it written into my notes because it was an aside. The closest recollection I have is (from Kantor):Mr. Houze no doubt has a reason why he did not choose to comment on statue of limitations.
it was an odd thing to say I thought. irritated? (when I say jump you jump since I am judge) disparaging? but it was odd of judge to ask Houze the question in the first place when kantor himself had brought Rees into the discussion, and it is Rees’s job to know this very thing (tho he did not!!!) maybe Kantor was irritated that it made Rees look silly. but if the judge originally asked Houze without thinking it through, there was no reason at all to comment afterward.
I can’t say that I recognized Rees speaking as being turning point. I was too busy being disgusted with his presence there. and I was appalled when Kantor effectively invited him to thurs & friday’s hearing, for which R thanked him. that was blatantly offensive to Bunch’s frequent protests at R being allowed to participate. I could not see Houze or Bunch’s faces from where I was sitting so don’t know about eye roll but I sure would like it if they did! tho I kind of doubt if Houze would ever reveal that much emotion in court.
I don’t remember that Houze ever brought up statute of limitations. judge has brought it up at least twice now, different hearings. It is possible that Houze did not want to speak the words MFH statute of limitations because it might have then been used in some cobbled together media sound byte with their own creative interpretation.
vw, remember when Engel was complaining about T not answering his questions at deposition, that she took 5th. did you remember his tone and expression being disparaging?
I wonder who found Adam Thayne for RSE. Rackner? knowing him from DOJ? I’d have thought that RSE if left to his own devices would seek out a hispanic. More to the point, who is paying him?
I am pretty sure Kantor was going to allow the cross examination of RSE, just not in relation to the sting. I know some reports have not been clear on that but that is my interpretation. Here is one link that states:
“Kantor Monday had asked lawyers from each side to submit additional legal briefs before the scheduled Thursday hearing on how the court should weigh Sanchez’s testimony in the child custody case, since Terri Horman’s lawyers would be restricted from delving fully into the landscaper’s credibility.”…
…”Terri Horman’s lawyers said they needed more time to submit their legal briefs. Kantor has postponed Thursday’s hearing. A new date has not been set.”
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/12/terri_moulton_hormans_lawyers.html
“vw, remember when Engel was complaining about T not answering his questions at deposition, that she took 5th. did you remember his tone and expression being disparaging?”
Of course I do. And that snarky remark about the “war chest” of money TMH has. Both remarks were strategically placed, dripping in sarcasm and meant for a “sound-bite” …. and he got what he wanted, didn’t he?
Maxine had the tact to not mention the out-of-context $$$ insult to the Moultons. Not Kyle. Jumped right on it. I am so not impressed with that little man. He is still crawling all over Kaine. Bet he likes his abs.
(Sorry…just PO’d at his lack of real reporting vs Maxine’s). Maxine didn’t even go out to interview Kaine. Instead she asked Houze a question as he was leaving. And I did not see one bit of bias in her writing up of the court doings.
You know, I think the tweeting, if you aren’t “a-twitter” with someone’s abs, is a really great way for an investigative reporter to get in all sides of a controversial story. You must pay attention and then relay all that you are looking at – rather than what you are looking for, for a soundbite.
@GH
I wonder who found Adam Thayne for RSE. Rackner? knowing him from DOJ? I’d have thought that RSE if left to his own devices would seek out a hispanic. More to the point, who is paying him?
======
Slight, but possible chance he found him through the circle’s of hispanic families that might need a bilingual criminal lawyer.
But with main offices in west portland, Engels might have steered him that way.
Who is paying? Underthehill volunteering his june 2010 OT? Rackner’s office got a pro-bono?
DOJ is state. And Thayne worked with hispanic judges, etc. Look at his resume.
Bigger question. Why a criminal vs an immigration lawyer?
I have never heard of a lawyer specializing in criminal and bktcy- is it just me?
B
@Grass. wrt “Mr. Houze no doubt has a reason why he did not choose to comment on statue of limitations.”
Entrapment, on Kantor’s part.
If a Judge wanted that info legitimately, he’d ask his law clerk to look it up for him. Period. Asking attorney on the record was duplicitous imo.
Kantor wanted the criminal attorney On The Record, indirectly acknowledging the mfh as criminal matter subject matter (=exclusion justified). Eye roll. Have I mentioned this Judge is someone’s (maybe his own) “dummy.”
8.085 APPOINTMENT OF COUNSEL FOR CHILDREN
The Court may appoint counsel for children in cases arising under ORS Chapter 107 upon its own motion or upon motion of either party pursuant to ORS 107.425(3), and shall appoint counsel if requested to do so by one or more of the children. A reasonable fee may be imposed by the Court against either or both of the parties or as a cost in the proceedings.
The procedure for appointment of counsel for children in cases arising under ORS Chapters 107-109 shall be as follows:
(1) In its sole discretion, the Court may appoint counsel for the children on its own motion with
PDF Page 55 of 131
Supplementary Local Rules Fourth Judicial District, Circuit Court of the State of Oregon for Multnomah County Effective February 1, 2012 48
or without prior notice to the parties.
(2) A person requesting appointment of counsel for a child or children must petition the Court for an order setting forth the reasons for such request. After reasonable notice to all parties, the person seeking such appointment shall appear and request an Order Appointing Counsel.
(3) The Court will appoint counsel where requested to do so by one or more children.
(4) Orders appointing counsel issued by the Court may contain provision for payment of attorney fees and terms for payment. No Order will be issued until counsel has agreed to accept such appointment upon the fee terms set forth.
(5) To the extent possible, appointed counsel will represent their clients’ legal interests in obtaining a secure, stable home life and a balanced relationship with both parents and will be answerable only to their client and to the Court. The parents or persons having physical custody of the child shall cooperate in allowing counsel opportunity for private consultation with the child or children, including making or assisting with arrangements for the children’s transportation to the attorneys’ office or some other reasonable meeting place and reasonable phone communication if needed.
(6) Counsel to be appointed for children shall meet the Court’s standards for qualification in family law matters and in the resolution of custody/parenting time issues.
courts.oregon.gov/Multnomah/docs/CourtRules/SLR2012Effective… · PDF file
What if I ask the court to give my child a lawyer, but the court does not agree?
You have the right to ask for a lawyer for your child, but the court does not have to appoint one. If this happens in your case, you may:
•Hire a lawyer for your child, or
•Ask Family Services to evaluate your case.
http://ctlawhelp.org/getting-a-lawyer-appointed-for-your-child
This should be a federal children’s rights statute, IMO.
If the court has no concern for the immediate welfare of the children, the parties will be given the opportunity to mediate custody and placement issues before a GAL is appointed. By statutory directive in the state I practice in (Wisconsin), the court must promptly appoint a GAL if mediation fails.
http://www.dadsdivorce.com/articles/how-a-guardian-ad-litem-impacts-your-child-custody-case.html
@Amys Sister. Estrada’s allegation wife expressed a wish her husband die while soliciting his assistance with same is inextricably intertwined with the Sting designed to provide coorboration as well as document she took an actual step to same (meeting the Statute). Rather than coorborating Mr Estrada, the Sting was exculpatory, & impeaches his credibility. The Last Meeting is both the Best Evidence, and only objective evidence, impeaching Estrada’s story. Only a fool would keep it out while letting the former in.
Moreover, in my opinion, Rees is fighting probing this exculpatory evidence because likely the Sting as designed & executed was illegal itself. Either it was Entrapment (which the Portland FBI Field Office is no stranger to), or it was based on a fraudulant probable cause representation to a Judge (ie what were yhe “words” of Estrada quoted by affidavit? Did he sign an affidavit in English he can’t read? etc) such that even if his story had been vindicated, evidence obtained in an illegal Sting couldn’t be used anyway:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree
yes Rose, that has long been my fear as you know.
B
corroborating. sorry
I realize comparing this to the Horman case is apples to oranges, but interesting none the less.
You’ve heard of suing for custody, right? Well, have you ever heard of suing the judge in your child custody battle? That’s what a mom in Manhattan is doing. She’s suing the family court referee who has been overseeing her custody case for the past three years.
http://thestir.cafemom.com/big_kid/164918/single_mom_stuck_in_child
http://nypost.com/2013/12/02/mom-sues-judge-over-3-year-custody-battle/
(NelMel mumblin’ something about needing more spaghetti…)
I have no other conclusion to make.
LE and DA and Kantor and everyone involved are going to put TMH on “trial” and attempt to convict her of a crime via a civil divorce/custody battle. They believe that they can do this, so, that is what they will do. They don’t care about such neener-neener things as due process. Nope. In the Portland area, criminal trials conveniently occur during divorce and custody hearings. Think of the money this saves!
Perhaps they can eventually just shut down the DA’s office, except for one prosecutor who hops about to attend all the divorce and custody hearings with a police officer, and he can get the estranged or ex-wives arrested for…oh…something! Hair flips! She flipped her hair, your honor! Did you see that? Right off her shoulder!!
Next perhaps I will read that a woman in the greater Portland area was convicted of a felony and sentenced to 25-life after she paid a parking ticket.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/04/opinion/barry-scheck-innocence-project-prosecutor-accountability/index.html?iref=allsearch
RE: Amys Sister says:
December 18, 2013 at 1:51 am
I am pretty sure Kantor was going to allow the cross examination of RSE, just not in relation to the sting. I know some reports have not been clear on that but that is my interpretation. Here is one link that states:
*****
Agreed. It makes a big difference constitutionally and otherwise that the matter is civil and not criminal.
@Grass. probably time at the Portland firm just after DOJ is more relevant.
neither the DOJ Office nor job title or the subsequent firm are on this resume.
I do not think that’s the norm.
An Officer of the Law, and probably an ADA,
is the one who decided to try criminal
allegations in a civil trial. Why?
@Blink. wrt “I have never heard of a lawyer specializing in criminal and bktcy- is it just me?
B” As I posted above, it is risky for any attorney to use the language “specializes in” in firm advertising, unless one wants to ski down Aloha Attorney’s hill. But, were I to guess, Portland must have lots of bankruptcies & crime. Maybe he’s repped landscapers busted for steroids in Canby. Who knows as resume is not apecific. It amazes me the people drawn to this case from LE to Judge…. (not to mention the threatening comments histed ny OLive on today.)
Terri has the right to remain silent and the DA has the right to protect the investigation. That’s what everything in this civil case hinges on and what makes it so fascinating.
If Houze can show the court there is no MFH investigation and that the sting had nothing to do with Kyron then the sting testimony will be allowed. Without showing those two things there is no way that testimony will be allowed, IMO. Kantor cannot rule any other way.
IMO if allowed the sting does show Terri’s level of savvy but it would take more to show RSE testimony that Terri was feeling the waters to have her husband killed was either misinterpreted or simply not true.
Mostly, I wonder how the depositions of school staff went because finding Kyron is priority and if they can show Terri was not the last person to see him then everyone can turn their attention to finding the person who took the child from Skyline.