Blink On Crime Kyron Horman Investigation Exclusive: DeDe Spicher Interview Yields Allegations Of Illegal Steroid Use Terri Horman Took To Police
A Blink On Crime Exclusive: DeDe Spicher speaks for the first time about her ordeal in the Kyron Horman investigation- continued ©
S. Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief- Blink On Crime
DeDe Spicher and Terri Moulton Horman
In the first part of blinkoncrime.com’s exclusive interview with DeDe Spicher, she revealed that after over 3 years of attempting to provide Multnomah County Sheriffs Office as well as Assistant Deputy Attorney Norm Frink with the necessary information they requested to clear her from any suspicion in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Skyline second grader Kyron Horman; she has finally been cleared after passing a polygraph as part of her requirement under an immunity deal that has been sealed with the court. Unofficially cleared, that is.
Spicher and her attorney Chad Stavley, who have since refused all local media requests, would very much like the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office and current District Attorney Rod Underhill to clear her officially and publicly.
Spicher is adamant that law enforcement never had any reason to question her statements to them from the beginning, has cooperated fully for over three years and recently testified before the grand jury to prove she had nothing to hide. While she would like the public to know that any assertions to the contrary are untrue, and sometimes have been offered maliciously, her desire to speak out about her experience over the last three years is primarily to force investigative resources to review it’s progress- and hopefully adjust in a way to further leads in Kyron’s case.
As was proven not only by her recent polygraph, but also by the verification that no evidence ever existed to support investigator’s theory in the first place, Spicher had no information about anyone’s potential involvement in Kyron’s disappearance, let alone her own.
The continuation of our interview, which provoked some very interesting revelations long felt to be a possibility by many, was confirmed by Ms. Spicher as she says- told to her by Terri Moulton Horman are prompting new possible theories in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Kyron Horman. Two days after Kyron Horman’s eleventh birthday.
Stoy: So, in your estimation then, why do you think that detectives Herron and Kravfe were so sure that you were involved or knew who was.
Spicher: I have thought about this a lot, and I think there were a few reasons. I think because I was advised through a meeting Terri had with a family friend and attorney that she should assume that all of her communication was being monitored by law enforcement and anyone she had contact with. He told her to assume the house was bugged as well as vehicles, etc. I also believe you did an article a while back that pointed out her phone was in Kaine’s name. As this was a day or two after she was served with the restraining order, she was also told that
Stoy (interrupting): You bought a prepaid phone after June 28th and never had one before that? I had read that you or someone else purchased them the day of or the day after Kyron’s disappearance.
Spicher: No. I purchased one prepaid phone, after Terri shared the info from her meeting, in my own name, either June 29th or 30th. I think they were hung up on the fact that I came to her aid with no contact for so long so they just were convinced there had to be.
Stoy: ok, sorry, continue. So you are not saying that LE was suggesting that you were hiding some other number you had and that was how they were alleging that you HAD to have been in contact with Terri or some other person prior to and on June 4th and that escalated your “poi” status in your opinion?
Spicher: They did not say that to me specifically, but what they repeated over and over again, was that Terri and I had to have had some form of communication we were hiding. It never made any sense to me because I knew I only had my cell that I had forever until the end of June, and I knew I had not been in contact with Terri since her 40th birthday party in March. So I would ask- well then I guess that means that you don’t have any contacts you can’t verify from either of us so why am I even in this “interview”?
To my recollection they never shared with me or answered any of my questions in response when something they kept hounding me about seemed absurd and conflicting with their theory.
Stoy: Which was?
Spicher: At first, I think that they really believed I was involved, and at some point I think they were talking more “accessory after the fact” because I got the impression ( although they did not share it with me) that Terri’s cell phone activity that day was nowhere near where I was, and my vehicle never left, nor did I. They would not verify that they located the ceramics/glassware artist [pottery artisan] I told you about and still have not.
Stoy: So in your opinion, you were clearly the linchpin of this case, they [LE] believed you held the key to solving it and/or implicating Terri exclusively at that point, they no longer entertained your involvement per se?
Spicher: I honestly don’t think I could say that I ever believed that they stopped treating me as some sort of suspect. I never felt that way, but yes, absolutely they 100% believe that Terri is responsible and I definitely believed we all had to be interviewed and scrutinized or whatever, but I really thought up until the meeting with Norm Frink that they [LE] would abandon that theory quickly because if they were positive I was the key, and I knew I was not, that would also eliminate Terri, who I did not and do not believe, but have no proof, was involved or knew anything.
Stoy: Right, so if you had nothing, and they felt you were the only nexus, it had to mean that they had no independent evidence of anything or anyone else so they would start in another direction?
Spicher: Right, but every interaction I had with them following and including the request to participate in the sting against her, made me believe they never did. To get back to the why question you asked me- my final thought on that is that they kept pointing out that I was the person to tell everyone not to speak to them without attorneys in the beginning. I would ask like who do you mean, because that would have been my opinion across the board for any situation, but it was definitely based on what was getting out about how they were going about this. I was scared and it turned out it was good reason. I also would point out to them that I did not think that was or should be the basis for suspicion because if it was, it seemed to me that I was told that several staff members at Skyline had hired counsel, and Kaine was the FIRST to have one between he and Terri and I had told her at least a week or so before that she should.
Stoy: Why do you think she did not immediately take your friendly advice? Your Dad was LE, and I presume she knew that. People can say what they want, but I know many members of law enforcement in different jurisdictions and agencies. I have worked with them or contributed analysis to cases with them privately [I cannot and would not ever include that in anything I choose to write on] and I can tell you that I do not know one of them that if they were the focus of a criminal probe or internal investigation they absolutely do not agree to an interview without a representative. In fact, Herron is or was the President of Mulnomah County Police Union or was, if I recall correctly. So to that end, I find that a pretty hypocritical reason for suspicion of anyone.
Spicher: (laughs) Interesting. I am not sure that I knew that. The reason Terri didn’t get an atty before the RO was because she was told by LE that if she did, she wouldn’t be privvy to any of their investigative discoveries, she would be out of the loop in finding Kyron.
Stoy: Have you had a desire or opportunity to review any sort of past events regarding the MCSO, I guess I should add, that involve anyone in this case or investigation you have had contact with?
Spicher: No, do you mean like any other detectives or that sort of thing?
Stoy: Have you ever met with or been interviewed with any other agencies or detectives?
Spicher: I believe I either met or just said hello to the guy you mentioned in that recent article of yours while he was at the house. Both Kaine and Terri were there at the time as well.
Stoy: Bobby O’Donnell?
Spicher: That’s it, yes, him. Why did you ask me if I am aware of any sort of events- should I be?
Stoy: Well, I think that tangentially if I were you I would be considering just about everything as it related to what you have been through, and I am aware of some what I will refer to as “stuff” but what I don’t want to do prior to the completion of our interview process is temper any of your responses with anything I know peripherally if that’s ok with you. If you wish, once I publish the continuation which will have that sort of information, I would invite you to comment on it for the record if you choose- are you ok with that?
Spicher: yes, that’s fine and probably a good idea.
Stoy: back briefly to the “sting request against Terri- On that issue- the request they extended to you outside the presence of your attorney and that they asked you not to tell Chad, as you think back , considering you have had no communication with Horman for over three years did you believe they thought it would work? What did your attorney say when you told him?
Spicher: I can’t and won’t address any conversations I have had with my attorney, but to answer your question as to my opinion, I really don’t know for sure, I knew that I did not, and thought it was really, really odd- that was my first reaction. After more thought, and other conversations, I don’t see how they thought it would work, or why they were still seemingly convinced after I had just passed the poly, etc, Terri was still their suspect and responsible. What is your opinion on it?
Stoy: I think I may reserve my thoughts on that for my piece. Again, not wanting to temper your opinions as we move along here and I think that could happen if I did. Is that ok with you?
Spicher: Sure, thank you.
Stoy: I would like to move on to another subject for discussion. I would just like to confirm for the record that I have never prior to this interview, asked you any questions about your potential knowledge of steroid use by yourself, or by Terri or Kaine Horman. Is that correct?
Spicher: Correct, ok.
Stoy: Did they ask you this?
Spicher: Who is they? You got a lot of pronouns flying around (laughs).
Stoy: Fair point, you’re right. The good news is, as English, or should I say proper English is my second language (laughs) I use an copy editor. Allow me to rephrase please. Did anyone in law enforcement at any time ask you about steroids or other illegal injectable supplements sometimes used in weight training or body building in your interviews in this case?
Spicher: Your question was did they [le] ask me anything about steroids or anything injectable ever?
Stoy: (laughs) now who’s throwing around the pronouns?
Spicher: (laughs) touche’ . I was asked about it very vaguely in the beginning, I told them I had never used them, that I did not believe Terri ever did because she and I had similar views against using them and while we were on different supplement regimens when I was training for a marathon in 2008 I still remembered her to be knowledgeable about legal and effective nutritional supplements. I had no reason to believe she had ever used any kind of steroids. I can’t say conclusively she never did but it would shock me.
Stoy: Why shock you?
Spicher: Because a few years back I recall Terri telling me that Kaine was what she referred to as “juicing” and that his behavior had become very aggressive and well, impatient or overeactive with the kids and she had discussed it with him and he ignored her.
Stoy: So for the record, when you say juicing you are referring to illegal steroids, not my Omega specials I make, correct? That was the only question they ever asked you and did not ask any follow up questions like how long ago, etc, etc. And so would you characterize the way law enforcement asked that question and their reaction to your response as disinterested, or having nothing to do with the case?
Spicher: I was never asked about Kaine’s use of steroids by either detectives or the grand jury. But yes, that is what she told me. I actually had forgotten all about it until she refreshed my recollection when I stayed there with her. To the best of my memory I was asked just what I said, I answered as I just said and was never asked any follow up question nor was it mentioned again to me by law enforcement . I don’t think I ever really understood what they did or did not think in terms of my information was important to the case, but yes, they were disinterested from my perspective as to it was the only time I was ever asked about it over the course of three and a half years and so my assumption is they still are. But that is my assumption.
Stoy: Understood, you are referring to the time you stayed at the Horman home late June 2010 through early July 2010 following Kaine’s service of the restraining order and her exclusive use of the home? Spicher: I am not sure about the exclusive use part, I didn’t really know anything about how that sort of thing worked and I think for some reason I want to say Terri was not allowed to show anyone.
Stoy: Ok. Tell me everything you know about that. But, I would like you to see if you can provide me your recollection from what you were told about steroid use PRIOR to your conversations about it that refreshed your memory. By the way, who else knows about this, if you know.
Spicher: Terri’s attorney Stephen Houze.
Stoy: How would you know that?
Spicher: Because I helped her load them up, what appeared to me to be syringes in a box and deliver it to her attorney’s office, she said, at his request. She also located some cancelled checks for what she said was Kaine’s payment for steroids. I don’t remember who they were made out to but it was not to cash.
Stoy: ok, understood, we will get back to that. I want to try and focus on what she told you those “few years back.” Do you recall what year, even ballpark.
Spicher: I want to say, but can’t be sure, it was after her competition in 2005, and I am tempted to say it was around the time they got married or shortly thereafter- I am just not going to be much help in remembering this if you are asking me to extract what I remembered from then on my own.
Stoy: Nope, that’s what I am asking, your fine, I don’t want to lead you but let me ask you a few things that may help. Do you remember where you were during the conversation.
Spicher: I remember it was either the one and only time I ever had lunch with Terri, or it was during a time she called my cell, Terri had a lot of drama, and so I was in a Home & Garden Show class and I recall I was saying things out loud to let he know I was not free to talk really or respond as she was talking, so I was saying things like… I don’t know, we should probably touch base on that when I am done here, or sounds good that we chat on it later.
Stoy: The brush up the other party is not getting, like that?
Spicher: Yes, she was not getting it and so I was kind of 50% paying attention. It was either during that call or at the lunch. Other than that, I am not remembering the timing so well.
Stoy: But you would say a few years before Kyron went missing so based on that 2007 or 2008? Do you remember if they were married at the time?
Spicher: Again, we were friends for a good number of years but not close friends, I almost felt like if she was calling me or talking to me about it she had no other option at the time.
Stoy: Got it. What did she say
Spicher: She said that Kaine had been aggressive with her and impatient with the children and she attributed that to his “juicing”. She confronted him and she felt he did not listen to her. She told me that she then called a detective and turned in Kaine’s seller. The member at the gym, I used to know the name but I really can’t recall because I was in the early morning crowd and this guy was more afternoon, I presume when they were there or they saw him. I had stopped going to the same gym as them ater the first year or two I met them there.
Stoy: So she called a detective to turn in the seller Kaine was buying steroids from? Wasn’t she concerned about the fact that buying them is also illegal and that Kaine could face charges?
SPicher: She told me that she contacted a detective and said she would be willing to turn over information about someone selling steroids but only if she could do so anonymously and without saying who was buying them, etc.
Stoy: So it was your understanding that she was trying to work out a scenario that would stop Kaine’s use without him ever knowing it was her by turning in that person? Sort of like… she gets approval to remain anonymous, she gives the tip and then one day comes home and says… “Hey honey, guess what I heard at the gym.. you better stop that or you could be arrested for it, etc?
Spicher: Yes, something like that. Except and again, we have discussed it at one or both these occasions, but that did not work out. The detective called her again directly and she was upset that there was further contact. From what I recall, I think that was the tone of what she was telling me.
Stoy: Understood, so you are thinking that it may have been why she was sort of wired about it and not hearing you try to go about your day, but insisting and venting like she was upset by it.
Spicher: Yes, I think so.
Stoy: Do you think she could have called you because your Dad was law enforcement and she might need that sort of advice. I don’t think so because she did not ask for any. So then what? Did Kaine find out?
Spicher: I just remember there was some sort of investigation of the guy, and I really don’t know if Kaine ever found out about it or knows to this day. If the seller or anyone was arrested or anything else at the time I do not remember, that was how much I paid attention to it then until Terri reminded me of it.
Stoy: Ok. Now, why is it that Terri was discussing it with you when you were staying at the house with her in your view?
Spicher: Because after the restraining order was served and I guess she realized where Kaine was headed, it was sort of like- if he was going to badmouth her, in her estimation it was false, but anyway, that Kaine had skeletons in his own closet sort of thing. She told her lawyer [Houze] and she said he instructed her to bring the syringes and the cancelled checks to his office. We did.
Stoy: So was Terri saying that Kaine was using steroids behind her back and she found this or that she knew and was having sort of the same reaction as last time, or she just learned once he was out of the home or what? Was she suggesting this to you like it had something to do with Kyron’s disappearance?
Spicher: I got the impression she did not know, or at least did not know when the last time he was using them was, but it gets fuzzy for me there because it is my belief up until the time the RO was served, in my opinion she would have tried to protect Kaine from le finding out so I don’t know if she told le, but it would surprise me. Terri was always very family centric. She would protect her family unit, and that is why she did the turning in thing, this would seem the same to me until he made those murder for hire allegations.
Stoy: So did you get the impression from her that she thought that her allegation of Kaine’s steroid use had anything to do with Kyron’s disappearance?
Spicher: No, not at all.
Stoy: Nothing like, maybe this happened as some sort of retribution against her for turning someone in previously or against Kaine if they thought he was involved because after all she says he was the one buying it back then?
Spicher: No, she told me she had no idea who was responsible for Kyron’s disappearance or why, and the only possibility she came up with after the fact because of his past behavior and the fact that he showed up at her door demanding $10,000 she had no idea what he was talking about, that it was the landscaper. He was the only person acting like a criminal at the time.
Stoy: Have you ever seen a text of hers involving the custody situation after the fact, after the Rudy Sanchez Estrada “sting” and she called police twice that day/evening that ended with “mark 1 for the FBI.”
Spicher: I may have, if I did I don’t remember it specifically.
Stoy: She specifically said the FBI, who has only ever assisted in this case, and who has no jurisdictional presence in Kyron’s case, I was just wondering if you had any thoughts on that.
Spicher: No, I don’t have any idea what she meant.
Is it possible that illegal steroid use or sales and the recent public outing there was an ongoing Federal Investigation with the emphasis on police and gym members that included persons familiar to the Horman’s contributed to the circumstances involving the disappearance of Kyron Horman?
Has it been excluded by having more law enforcement investigating themselves?
Roid Rumors and Boys In Blue.. Coincidence Or Clue?
It is no secret that Oregon has seen it’s share of corruption allegations in recent years. The very public and very disturbing account of it’s Governor Neil Goldschmidt’s involvement with a 14 year old girl earned Willamette Week’s Nigel Jaquiss a Pulitzer in 2005 for breaking the story a year earlier. As a strong argument for the trickle down effect, Goldschmidt’s former driver Bernie Giusto- who became the Multnomah County Sheriff following the debacle, was forced to resign his position when a State agency declared they would be removing his police certifications due to his lack of “moral fitness” outlined in the now infamous Giusto Report. A former Sheriff, Bob Skipper, was then appointed to take his place, but after two attempts could not pass the required certifications. The current Multnomah Sheriff Dan Staton, who has since won an election, was appointed in his place. Several current MCSO officers assigned to Kyron’s case were interviewed for the Giusto report.
In fact, Bobby O’Donnell was the lead investigator in Kyron’s case for the first 18 months who according to his own words in his interview was the unfortunate subject of an allegation involving his own very messy divorce.
MCSO Sgt Brett Ritchie stated in a police interview that O’Donnell was seen waving a gun and threatening his life [Ritchie] after he began dating O’Donnell’s ex wife. Laura O’Donnell was granted a restraining order against him that later became an agreement between the couple.
The lead investigator in the case of a missing child openly threatened a ranking officer and that incident was never investigated outside of Ritchie being told to stay away from O’Donnell. O’Donnell’s deposition and his motion to quash it are the subject of a hearing scheduled for Friday September 13, 2013.
There is no question the agency tasked with the investigation into the disappearance of Kyron Horman has had several and more recent embarrassing entanglements.
In another investigative piece by the Willamette Week, it exposes the egregious overtime paychecks that members of the prosecutors and investigators assigned to Kyron’s case have received during the early months following Kyron’s disappearance.
It is unclear how Multnomah County ever had jurisdiction in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance. According to the Skyline School’s filed safety and response plan, the Portland Police Bureau is the agency of record.
Multnomah County’s former woes might have paled a bit in comparison if only by the difference a year makes to public memory, to that of their fellow neighboring officers in Canby, located in Clackamas County.
After several investigations into the selling and possible use of anabolic steroids a Canby Police officer, which were repeatedly stalled due to his caption tipping other’s off in the alleged ring , Officer Jason Deason was arrested along with Canby Landscape Supply Owner William Traverso, Brian Casey Paul Jackson were arrested. The investigation was believed to be ongoing and Traverso, Deason and Jackson all cut deals for quick prison stints that shocked fellow officers and the public alike. The specifics of which were sealed by the court. It is now known that the Federal Bureau of Investigation continued to require the ongoing cooperation of it’s criminals turned informants to pursue federal indictments against possible targets in law enforcement and members of the bodybuilding set- to include acquaintances of Kaine and Terri Horman.
Presuming the confirmed allegations are true- is it possible that ‘a few years back’ Terri Horman unwittingly set off a state turned Federal investigation into the buying, using and selling of human growth hormone and anabolic steroids? How could this be connected, if it is, to the timing of Kyron’s disappearance even if she had?
“… Jackson, through a plea deal on state charges in 2009 where he admitted to selling anabolic steroids to Canby police officers in uniform, had been working with the FBI on an ongoing investigation when they confronted him with the knowledge that he was found deceptive on a polygraph designed to indicate if Jackson’s participation was far more extensive then he originally admitted to…”
“…Jackson, with his attorney, began cooperating with federal authorities shortly after his arrest. He identified his source for steroids as Vancouver resident Rainbow “Bo” Wild Keepers, 39, a competitive bodybuilder and photographer. Agents ran Keepers’ name in federal databases and discovered that an Arizona man had tipped off the Drug Enforcement Administration years ago that Keepers was his source of steroids. Keepers was never charged…”
On June 3rd, 2010, approximately 24 hours before Kyron Horman’s disappearance, Jackson was arrested on a Federal warrant following a sealed indictment issued the day before after failing a polygraph and refusing to help the FBI further.
From the Indictment:
Between June 2, 2005 and May 2008, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials B.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).
It has since been revealed that the initials BW stand for Bradley Worden. Worden owns a few businesses, all relating to wholesale gym equipment or nutritional products. Worden has never been charged.
Between June 2006 and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials N.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).
The identity of the person with initials NW is unknown.
Between June 2, 2005, and December 2007,: in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule illcontrolled substances, to a person with the initials G.P., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and
841(b)( 1)(E).
The identity of the person with the initials G.P is unknown.
Between June 2, 2005, and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule III controlled substances, to a person with the initials S.B., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and 84l(b)(1)(E).
The initials S.B. refer to Steve Beaudoin, a former work associate of Jackson’s and current Oregon State safety officer.
According to assistant U.S. Attorney Jane Shoemaker, Jackson sold Beaudoin at least 50 pills of the steroid Winstrol, an injectable steroid called Deca Durabolin, Sustanon and, in June 2007, 100 pills of Anavar on one to two occasions. Shoemaker also said Jackson sold Beaudoin $500 worth of human growth hormone. Investigators discovered the sales through witness interviews and Jackson’s computer records, Shoemaker said.
From Buff To Puff
In contrast to Jackson, although Traverso also sold to Deason and other members of law enforcement, William ‘Jake’ Traverso, a former competitive bodybuilder and “Mr. Oregon” cooperated extensively with the FBI by identifying other law enforcement officers he sold steroids to, and got a lenient sentence of 15 days in jail, 30 days home detention and 24 months probation, with no federal charges.
In a letter submitted to a Clackamas County judge Monday, FBI Special Agent Christopher Frazier said that Traverso has discussed his drug distribution activities in detail. “The public safety employees identified by Traverso included law enforcement officers, corrections officers, fire and rescue personnel and university public safety officers,” Frazier wrote, “Several spin-off FBI public corruption investigations were initiated as a result of these allegations, and are ongoing.”
Traverso, Deason and Jackson were cooperating with the Feds simultaneously, and in a very public way. Although Deason had been similarly employed by the Canby Police under Chief Greg Kroeplin, at least one of the raids on Traverso- Deason’s client, was by Deason’s Canby fellow officer James Murphy.
John Hingson, Traverso’s attorney and past commentator on the Horman case, sparred with then ADA Norm Frink as well. Hingson unearthed the report that included Murphy had been demoted following Deason’s arrest and his credibility was called into question. Murphy worked the graveyard shift with Deason. The report also revealed that both Deason and Officer James Murphy, who was one of the few to initiate an investigation into Deason’s steroid abuse, were put at risk when they were scheduled to work side by side as the only two officers on that shift.
“…Hingson obtained a 2009 report written by private detectives the City of Canby had hired to investigate the steroid scandal. Among their findings: Murphy had been demoted from detective to officer for alleged dishonesty…”
Chief GregKroeplin resigned prior to release of a scorching memo outlining the city’s findings they had outsourced properly to two retired Oregon detectives, which would have resulted in his termination.
Murphy, still employed by Canby Police, is apparently looking to renew the agencies stint for bad press.
On October 13, 2011, six months after former Willamette Week journalist James Pitkin featured his Lord of The Flies article outlining Murphy’s internal investigation led to his demotion for dishonestly, he arrested a freelance sports reporter while taking pictures of him exiting the Canby Police Headquarters on duty and entering his personal vehicle.
Andrew Millbrooke filed a Federal lawsuit in 2012 against The City of Canby, Officer James Murphy and his captain Bret Smith for excessive force and wrongful arrest which took place after Murphy used his cruiser to follow Millbrooke who was on foot. In a police report from another officer in the case, Millbrooke tells him he is a freelance journalist trying to expose corruption and drug use by Officer Murphy. The suit is pending. A review of the declarations by both Mr. Smith and Mr. Murphy do not include the details of the investigative report commissioned by The City Of Canby discussing Mr. Murphy’s prior demotion. Mr. Murphy also had a recent court decision regarding improper procedure [See Bonneau].
With pending motions to release the employment files of some Canby police officers to include Murphy, the charges against Traverso were dismissed this past May due the state delaying the case over 23 months.
Traverso, Deason and Jackson are all currently on probation. Traverso is awaiting trial on recent charges involving watermelon theft.
As the Federal Bureau of Investigation is listed as an investigative partner to MCSO in the Kyron Horman investigation, it is their policy not to release files where they are not the lead agency of record or during an ongoing criminal investigation .
Requests for comment from Kaine Horman through his attorney Brett Engel regarding the allegations that he has either purchased or sold illegal steroids have not been returned at the time of this publication.
However, in an article published to include a quote from Kaine Horman it seems that Kaine confirms Ms. Spicher’s assertion that Terri Horman did not use illegal steroids, but rather nutritional supplements and had moved past those very quickly after her bodybuilding competition.
“…Kaine said he noticed a sharp shift in her behavior, saying she became self-centered and short-tempered.
“She’s not eating a lot of food, she’s exercising twice a day, she’s up at 4 o’clock in the morning, she’s not sleeping at night so we get just general irritable behavior towards everyone around her,” he said.
He said she consumed over-the-counter stimulants, such as fat burners, in high doses. In four months between January and April, she shed 62 pounds, dropping from 185 to 123 pounds, he said.
At the end of April, with her muscles bulked up and skin glistening with a bronze tan, she competed in the Emerald Cup bodybuilding competition in Bellevue, Wash…”
S.Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief, www.blinkoncrime.com was able to independently confirm Ms. Spicher’s account of alleged steroid use and ensuing investigation of a gym member as told to her by Terri Horman.
The source, an associate of Terri Horman, DeDe Spicher and Kaine Horman who declined to be identified, went on to say that at the time it was “… really common knowledge who was using steroids and who was selling them…” “… was not aware previously that Terri Horman claimed to have instigated contact with law enforcement to turn in the seller…” The source declined to identify the seller and could not say for certain if he was charged and likely would not away- given the request not to disclose the source’s name on the record.
Reached for comment, Terri Moulton Horman Attorney Stephen Houze declined to comment based on his policy of not speaking publicly when a client has pending legal matters.
A request for comment to Mr. Bunch, Terri Horman’s divorce attorney has not been returned by the time of this publication.
More Questions Than Answers..
Following several hours of interviews with DeDe Spicher, the woman who was not a close friend to Terri Horman but ultimately was the closest to her in the early days of the investigation- are we left with more questions than answers about what could have happened to the little boy whose 11th birthday was 2 days ago?
Spicher concedes that anything she discussed as told to her by Terri Horman in some minor instances may only be verifiable by Horman herself- and she is not talking… Yet.
She also points out that ultimately everything she told me she shared with investigators as far as “truthfulness” was confirmed by a polygraph – to include the question “Was she withholding any information from investigators?”
She was not.
Although limited, Spicher’s accounts in many instances confirm sparse information heard early on from Terri herself. Not the least of which was that although widely criticized for not speaking out publicly, she was told by investigators not to under any circumstances- and when she broached the possibility of retaining counsel was told that she would then be cut off from any information as to the investigation process to find Kyron Horman.
Through Spicher, Horman also confirmed that out of concern for Horman’s “spacieness” which she defined by walking into a room and staring off, not remembering, etc, Terri Horman called his pediatrition Thursday June 3rd and made an appointment for Friday June 11th. His last day of school. Horman also told Spicher that Kyron had wondered off or got lost while in his teacher Ms. Porter’s care once before when following a fellow student out of class.
Initially, prior to learning Kyron had been marked absent not very long after she left the building, that was Horman’s first thought. Those hopes grew into panic with that revelation that he had been missing for hours.
Spicher says Terri was adamant that she never had a sexual relationship with the now infamous landscaper Rudy Sanchez Estrada Spicher agrees that her friend had the propensity to be flirtatious but she never knew her to be sexually promiscuous. Outside of the fact that she says at Kaine’s request to occasionally include an additional female in the bedroom, to which Spicher declined, she was not aware that the Horman’s had a swinger lifestyle.
To her knowledge, there were other women that were asked to participate in a threesome with the couple that did not say no some years ago, but had no current knowledge and she herself was never involved with Horman sexually.
In her take, the addition of a 3rd female was an expression of control on Kaine’s part in the relationship.
Terri explained the landscapers “sexual accosting” , previously reported exclusively by www.blinkoncrime this way:
“… She said she had Kitty on her hip and he came up behind her and was kissing her neck and put his arm around her and when she verbally resisted with concern that Kitty was in her arms he sort of grabbed her and she spun around and broke free…”
Spicher adds that on more than one occasion she tried to bring that up during meetings with DA Norm Frink and investigators. One one occasion, as suggested by her Father, a former Klamath County Marine Officer, at their own expense The Klamath County Sheriff and his first lieutenant had agreed to meet with Frink, Spicher and her father on DeDe’s behalf to sort of provide character backgrounds and family history he felt would be helpful in clearing her.
“… This came up in the first interview I had with Mr Frink and I told him she had made that call. Later in the interview when he was trying to push more of my buttons, he tells me that call never happened (implying Terri had lied to me). I told him okay, that’s what you’re telling me, but I recall it differently (implying he was lying to me right then). He got very angry about that and insisted it was “fact”. I said okay, whatever. Much later, like one of the last times I met with Mr Frink, the Klamath County Sheriff and his 1st Lieutenant flew up on their own dime to meet with Mr Frink & Keith Krafve to see if they could help by offering their opinion of my character, and that it didn’t seem unusual to them at all that I would go help Terri, that it is very consistent with how my family has always been. At that meeting, I retold the story of Rudy sexually accosting Terri (her words), but said I wasn’t sure about the 911 call. That totally infuriated Mr Frink. I told him I was trying to believe him and simply not certain about what I could remember on that point.
The DAs office behaved very strangely toward the Klamath Co Sheriff and his Lt. They tried everything they could to keep us separated and even insisted that they (the DAs office) drive them back to the airport, despite the fine fact that we (Dad & I) had picked them up and brought them in, and would definitely be seeing them again in the near future. It was just weird, to all of us…”
I asked DeDe if she used the term called 911 in every exchange. She had. I asked her if she got the impression that the reason Frink was so sure it never happened was because there was no 911 call on the record about it – could it be that maybe she reached out to that former law enforcement person she contacted on the steroid issue and it was actually a dispatch call versus a trackable 911 call issue.
Spicher says she got the impression that Frink was suggesting that the “accosting” as described by her friend did not happen, but could not be sure except to say that Frink seemed to become irate when she brought it up on every occasion. Spicher felt Sanchez Estrada was the only person behaving like a criminal and that supported the accounts she was given.
I asked DeDe if Terri mentioned ever paying Sanchez Estrada for work at the Horman home. She said she did not recall Terri ever saying anything other than she had no idea what he was talking about when he came to the door and asked for $10,000 so she slammed the door in his face and called 911.
Stoy: So did she think it was some sort of extortion attempt now that she had mentioned him to investigators and they told her that they had interviewed him?
Spicher: She thought that he was dangerous from her past experience.
Stoy: Did you think it was odd that with a brand new John Deere tractor parked outside that TH was hiring a landscaper? I was able to confirm through other sources that he cleared some blackberry or blueberry bushes similar to Ms. Von Klevelen, and the tractor does not have a UCC lien on it, meaning it was not financed.
Spicher: No, it wasn’t. Kaine bought it. It was Terri’s job to manage the inside of the house as well as the entire property. I knew that when Kaine would travel he would come up with this project lists for her to complete by the time he got home. I mean, like cleaning the gutters, cutting the grass, washing all the windows, that sort of thing. To the best of my recollection Terri and Kaine did not have bank accounts together- he controlled everything he made.
Stoy: With a baby, 7 year old and teenager and hubby out of town? How was she managing that? No wonder he was suggesting that she was pouring through money like water or something like that, she was probably hiring help. I am not even sure I think a woman by herself at that property with a baby should be on the roof by herself anyway.
Spicher: No, Terri had to pay any support money or whatever to the household expenses and I have surmised Kaine gave her some sort of allowance which she probably blew through pretty quickly on frivolous things like food and clothes for her children. I have never known Terri to be frivolous with money. I know of at least two times when the projects she was supposed to accomplish were impossible for her to manage. One was the windows so I believe she hired someone that time and as I recall her parents paid for that. I believe the other was the landscaper.
Stoy: Is it a fair question for me to ask how you feel about Kaine, from your tone I am sensing you are not a fan.
Spicher: I have tremendous compassion for Kaine- he lost his child- what can one even say about that? But no, he is not someone I would want to be friends with today and I was cordial to him whenever I was around him but he was very controlling and was pretty mean to Terri about her weight from Kitty, things like that- I am not going to have anything in common with that.
Stoy: Did Terri ever mention anything about conflicts with Desiree Young, whether they were between her and she or Kaine and Desiree?
Spicher: Not that I recall, but I also never heard her speak of Desiree negatively at any time previously or when I stayed with her [Terri].
Stoy: That is saying a lot because right after the sting Ms. Young was pretty accusatory pretty quickly- and I do note that was based on information from law enforcement. Similar to some of the things both she and Kaine said publicly about you. Are you angry about that?
Spicher: O my no. That poor woman is going through hell and acted on information that I was told, lie or not, was given to her and Kaine. I have nothing but compassion for her and I wish I could shoulder some of her pain because I can.. I have nothing but compassion for all of Kyron’s parents and any anger I have over how I was treated, what I went through would never be directed at them. I really pray that Kyron will be found, I choose to put my energy into hope for that.
Pending Matters
Through Attorney Bunch, Terri Horman makes the claim that both law enforcement and Kaine Horman have been perpetrating the dissemination of inaccurate information involving the circumstances of Kyron Horman’s disappearance.
In a recent filing, set for hearing this Friday, Bunch pens a scathing reply to Deputy O’Donnell’s motion to quash, and accuses the county of improper ex parte communication.
Early this afternoon, a source within the Multnomah County Courthouse speaking on the condition of anonymity has confirmed that on behalf of Multnomah County, a motion has been filed to limit certain documents or discoverable information related to Mr. Horman and Bobby O’Donnell of the MCSO.
A hearing is scheduled before Judge Kantor for this Friday September 13, 2013
Jacqueline Beaufort, Ellie Sanders – research and contributing editors to this article.
Jason Mateos- contributing editor, copy.
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ps TGF, hey thanks for weighing in on the language issue sincerely appreciated-
Rose says, JK had 10 days after both prior Motions, sitting back scratching his head, with the aid of his law clerk to research, to prepare his decision. Attorneys argued a matter of law; he’s supposed to know it or look it up (but not googke it from the Bench as an observor suggested.!He gave himself 10 days for an “Emergency” which was wholly unnecssary and one JK constructed himself in the first place by prior flawed rulings. imo.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
if you are talking about the statute of limitations for MFH, not only did he have 10 days to look it up, he mentioned it once before when DA was arguing for a stay. JK said how long is this going to go on? forever? what’s the statute of limitations on MFH? it was in reply to this DA promised it would be just a little bit more time to make their case. didn’t answer the statue of limitations question. that makes it even more surprising that Rees didn’t bother to look it up either, so he would be prepared if it ever came up again.
I would like to think that Kantor has access to some law library from his laptop because he has looked up things before and read it to us.
grasshopper says:
December 20, 2013 at 1:32 pm
@Graceinthehills
“I am disappointed that we have not found my son yet. I’m glad
we have strong law enforcement and community involvement in his recovery, and I think we will continue to express ourselves
based on our beliefs that help recover him and bring him home,” Kaine Horman said after Friday’s hearing.
~~~~~~~~~~~
the point of this remark of KAINE’S is that he believes LE approach and the community involvement of stalking and hate should continue and will be effective in “recovering” Kyron.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Grasshopper, I know that is KH’s remark. i don’t know how or why anyone would interpret it that way as it makes no reference to those individukas at all.
But, really, I wasn’t concerned with or even commenting on KH’s remark when I posted. I was pointing out Trashy’s reputation.
Oops. I meant “individuals.”
grasshopper says:
December 20, 2013 at 5:25 pm
for those of you out of towers who wonder what the heck goes on with this city, here’s another questionable hire.
“The former head of Oregon’s Psychiatric Security Review Board, who resigned while under investigation, is now working for Portland police, responsible for their compliance with federally mandated reforms.”
much more info at ink
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/12/portland_police_hire_former_he.html
Ok, we have a much bigger story here LE/lawsuit wise now.
grasshopper says:
December 20, 2013 at 5:54 pm
(snipped)
I would like to think that Kantor has access to some law library from his laptop because he has looked up things before and read it to us.
=========================================================
I mentioned this to my lil’ sis, the lawyer, on the phone (she’s in Las Vegas). Her reply:
“The general idea is to have googled sh*t BEFORE the hearing.”
Well I dont know what type of lawyer your lil sis is- but Kantor has case law and associated subscriptions for real time on his computer. I do agree that interpretation and applicability should be a clerk-based effort for this judge-
B
@Grass. Yes everything is on line.
Doing in the Courtroom is wasting the time of the parties.
(All eyes are on him while he does this, right?
Imo it’s characterological.)
He’s on salary–not paying billable hours.
imo Should take a recess if researching.
grasshopper says:
December 20, 2013 at 5:54 pm
JK said how long is this going to go on? forever? what’s the statute of limitations on MFH? it was in reply to this DA promised it would be just a little bit more time to make their case. didn’t answer the statue of limitations question. that makes it even more surprising that Rees didn’t bother to look it up either, so he would be prepared if it ever came up again.
————–
I think that JK was being snarky when he ask about the statute of limitations. Especially since he ask about it before and the DA told him it would just be a little more time. Maybe JK wanted to see if the DA would repeat the “bit more time” promise. I’ll bet JK knew full well what the statute of limitations was for the MFH and he was just pushing the DA’s buttons.
@3.0. Both TH & KH would be insane to ask for a GAL imo.
Blink expressed surprise the Judge had not appointed one on his own in
this case. I too am surprised. A GAL would enable him to do as he pleases
(disregard Dr Vinh if he choses) as in the multiplicity of opinions, GAL
& Vinh are bound to differ about something. I think it’s because GAL would
look at the Foundation of the RO & MFH as attested to by LE, Rackner, & imo
someone with DA, and that is the LAST thing this Judge & the DA want.
Just another soft sign.
Going back to the beginning, here’s what I’d like to know now, knowing what little more we now know.
#1: Why was Kaine Horman taken into the confidence of the DA’s office in the first place? For years I thought he actually was possibly under their investigation and he was their hidden agenda, but the newest movements in this case show how wrong I was. So……why?
#2: This may seem like a trivial thing to some, but why was there no pleading from this family for what, somewhere around a week?, for their child’s return?
#3. Why was Tony Young, a very recent step-father the first one to speak out about Kyron, instead of his bio Dad, bio Mom, or the step mother who raised him? Who decided this and why?
#4. Why did Desiree’s ex-husband (Kaine) and a new husband (Tony) embrace one another at that presser as if they were best friends?
Blink said not long ago, go back to the beginning, so I am.
#1. After the Sting of Lies, & Roll the Dice RO, imo, Kaine had DA et al Over A Barrel.
The most righteous suit would be his tell-all against them imo.
So Kaine is not dependent on DA’s goodwill backing up his RO.
Whoever in DA’s Office drafted Sting probable cause & the RO is imo at
Kaine’s mercy.
#2. Imo Terri did what she was told by Kaine,
who depended on LE.
DY did what she was advised by LE, & Tony.
So the Q boils down to
Why the Search & Rescue posture by mcso?
imo OVERTIME.
@ VW
I have some questions
Are they devorceing yet
Is Terri Moulton now Legally
And when are they going to have the next hearing
Just a heads up about the use of language interpreters in the courts: One does not have be Spanish speaking only to warrant the use of a Spanish Interpreter in a court proceeding. When English is the second language, even when an
individual’s spoken English is fairly good, an interpreter will be assigned to the case to assist as needed. You never want to take a chance that a witness or defendant might misunderstand any of the questions or have difficulty expressing their responses in English.
I suspect RSE knew enough English to keep his landscaping business afloat…and more. JMO.
I agree with that, but I can confirm that his English was referred to as “broken” by several different witnesses I interviewed that he worked for. To your point, as his counsel one would almost have to request a translator on the record.
B
@VW I made that hard to read
I mean is Terri legally a Moulton now
Where is the divorce is it done or what
And when is the next hearing
Sorry I can be hard to understand when I don’t understand myself
Essay Kaye says:
December 20, 2013 at 12:45 pm
I find it surprising that TH’s attorneys needed the extra time to brief the constitutional issues involved in support of their emergency motion; (snipped)
…the emergency motion filed two days later by TH’s attorneys contained not a single reference to statute, rule of evidence, specific constitutional protection or supporting case law. It was their motion and their burden; (snipped)
______
You said it better than I did. Thank you.
It is my personal belief they intend to challenge LE privilege on the issue overall. In that- in order for it to be privileged, excluded from public information if you will, it has to be prosecutable. Imo DA Rees has evidence to the contrary and therefore the matter is subject to public disclosure.
Again I will say, this is very basic and the equivalent of legal vanilla.
RSE made an allegation against this woman that fostered a FAPA order that kept her from child for over 4 years. The allegation ITSELF should have prompted her arrest under Oregon law ( as I have stated numerous times) except we also now know that the allegation was never corroborated, and furthermore, does not meet the statute, period. Unless DA Rees can support that specific allegation is under current investigation in an effort to prosecute TMH- it is not subject to privilege and this cat gets his day in court.
How he came to light the match that has been burning this woman in near perpituity is her right to examine and confront. Here’s the rub- I seriously doubt any of this was his own idea. I think he felt he needed a story to be sitting on the right side of the interview table ( where have we heard this before) because he found himself a POI in the disappearance of a 7 year old child.
You think given his circumstances and grasp of English he could still process.. “We asked TMH who she thinks might have a grudge and take Kyron and she gave us YOUR name.. why do you think that would be?”
The breaches to constitutionality across the board in this case are bigger than Judge Kantor’s ego already- Rose is right. This needs to be decided in a Federal suit- and all the while Ky is still missing, and Mother and daughter remain severed. Wow.
Shakespearean-Orwellian = Shakewellian.
B
Malty says:
December 21, 2013 at 12:17 am
@VW I made that hard to read
I mean is Terri legally a Moulton now
Where is the divorce is it done or what
And when is the next hearing
Sorry I can be hard to understand when I don’t understand myself
————————————
No problem, Malty. I knew exactly what you meant.
I don’t believe the divorce is final yet and at this point, who knows how much longer that will be. The last I read here, the next hearing date wasn’t set yet, but I could have missed it here somewhere.
In any case, it looks like a little girl spends another Christmas without her mother.
@CD, at GH
http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/hormancourtdocs12162013.pdf
Reading up on this affidavit in which Engel’s claims he “found” Rudy among other asundry stretches of the truth. And his excerpts of the depo of Rudy. And his PO that HE wrote to keep Dr. V’s study out of the pubiic eye (think PO via Rosenthall for DY in case she and TY would have to be depoed despite the LE intervention).
IMO….JK and Rees were both being more than snarky regarding the “statute” of limitations. I think, at that point, when Houze was arguing for either all or nothing on the depo of Rudy that Kantor didn’t know how to rule. And instead deferred to Rees. Which, btw, he said could occasionally have a say…just not formally intervene. But when he did that, he, himself, got wishy-washy on what was really at stake. And so, in that sense and in that case, Kantor can be dangerous as he is out of his league and showing it.
Another point. Engel’s loved it. Divide and conquer…now Kantor won’t think serviously about this question…why did Engel’s bring up “finding Rudy” and not even knowing his name when in the fall of 2010 Rackner is saying “I only want to help LE” and Houze and Bunch are stating his NAME in their request for visitation…as well as references to the BESC calls?
These are insults to the intelligence of the Horman team. They are playing games that also insult the intelligence of all of us who know the research related to this case.
JK was ill-prepared for this very critical emergency meeting. If you read those depo excerpts above there is the perpetuity issue also. Houze must have been extremely angry at the game Engels played with that one.
I do believe it has to do with stalling….baiting and stalling and attempting to again put pressure on TMH, on the team and to force some kind of inference again that TMH is the one who must “open up”. Engels stated,
“if you want to know what happened at the second meeting…why don’t you ask your client…she was there”.
And the diffusion worked… the team has to re-group to assure that TMH will not have her constitutional rights violated.
Hi Malty…
Don’t know whether she’s legally changed her name. I do know she changed Jame’s name back to Moulton in Dec/Jan of 2009-10.
TMH’s team has postponed the Custody issue. The $$$ issues are on the table still…Jan 1st and 2nd?
This hearing was just for temporary custody/visitation until the formal Custody case is held next June.
I’m not sure myself if the the June permanent custody case will also include finanacial settlement stuff.
Oregon is a 50/50 state, so maybe that money part will be taken care of after Christmas.
Hey…I have to check myself, all the time…and go back to see if what I think I know is what I read. .. LOL
@Rose says:
IMO…when push comes to shove…it’s under he bus for Kaine. He’s going to sue the DA’s office when he wouldn’t sue PPS?
Answer to 5 out of ten questions regarding the “methods, impressions, and pursuit of justice” in this case – yep…..OT.
@Grace
Just a heads up about the use of language interpreters in the courts: One does not have be Spanish speaking only to warrant the use of a Spanish Interpreter in a court proceeding. When English is the second language, even when an
individual’s spoken English is fairly good, an interpreter will be assigned to the case to assist as needed. You never want to take a chance that a witness or defendant might misunderstand any of the questions or have difficulty expressing their responses in English.
I suspect RSE knew enough English to keep his landscaping business afloat…and more. JMO.
I agree with that, but I can confirm that his English was referred to as “broken” by several different witnesses I interviewed that he worked for. To your point, as his counsel one would almost have to request a translator on the record.
@Grace, Blink
I’m kinda versed on 2nd language acquisition as that was my masters and my career, for the most part.
A 2nd Lang. learner can live here for many, many years and not have even beginning Sec.Lang. skills. Especially as an adult if they are not taking intensive 2nd Lang. classes at a comm. college or higher.
Idiomatic language does not come easily. Idioms like “get rid of” or “to find out” or even “has the means to take…away”. I ask my housekeeper, that has been her 8 years, very simple questions and if i don’t use Spanish she has no clue even it’s as simple as ….”i’d like you to come next Monday”. I have to show her on the calendar, and write her name. Did TMH use visuals like that? Draw pictures on napkins at the restaurant? Because the concept of what she was supposedly getting at could be very, very, misunderstood without an interpreter.
Thanks for that insight, I truly want to know, since both DY and KH have stated that the mfh plot “convinced them” of TMH involvement in Kyron’s disappearance in the first place- and since it is CLEARLY an unsubstantiated if not flat out false accusation- How does one justify what has been done to this woman and child for over 4 years?
B
@rose….but i don’t think you mean “suit” literally…
T. Ruth says:
December 20, 2013 at 12:22 am
@vw says:
December 19, 2013 at 1:44 am
I preface this by saying I’m no legal beagle for sure and I just go by what feels right or wrong, just or unjust. (Learning a lot just from the last 3 years.)
========
truth…yep. me. too. 3 yrs ago, if you asked me what a “motion” was…I wouldn’t have had a clue…something to do with a new camera?
Still don’t know what “in camera” means and all that legal lingo. Should ask my soon to be sister-in-law.
in camera means in the judge’s chambers, excluded from public view or disclosure for some reason prompted by a prima facie.
B
Ditto, ditto, well said. I had the same thoughts. Hard to believe they didn’t expect this, or were ill prepared. Perhaps an immediate response would have said they did expect it, and they have to appear that they only expect what is appropriate and are not expecting what is not appropriate. (If that makes sense). They continue to act in good faith with the court, so to speak, with expectations of the same.
Essay Kaye says:
December 20, 2013 at 12:45 pm
I find it surprising that TH’s attorneys needed the extra time to brief the constitutional issues involved in support of their emergency motion; I would have thought they would have already expected RS’s testimony and been prepared for an attack that actually contained case law support, etc. — everyone here knew it was coming. The court issued its order limiting the scope of discovery on September 16, 2013; KH’s attorneys issued a subpoena for RS on October 3, 2013; the deposition of RS was conducted November 11, 2013 with TH’s criminal attorney in attendance (her family law attorney was not present). It should have been no shock to TH’s attorneys that KH’s attorneys referenced excerpts of RS’s deposition in their response to TH’s motion for parenting time, which was filed December 3, 2013. However, the emergency motion filed two days later by TH’s attorneys contained not a single reference to statute, rule of evidence, specific constitutional protection or supporting case law. It was their motion and their burden; it did not provide the Court (or the record) with a lot to work with in the subsequent hearing. Was the dearth of legal support the result of not expecting what we all saw coming, the scarcity of legal support for the emergency motion, or something else?
@Mom3.0, Why should she trust anyone on Mult Co payroll, was my point.
I don’t know how many ways to say this wrt TH, but if you are ever in the cross hairs of LE, you should exercise your Miranda rights, speak to an attorney, who will most likely have you plead the 5th in a civil case that is being used to further a criminal investigation. That is why she is pleading the 5th, because she has not been charged with anything. Mult Co has not made a case on the MFH or the disappearance of Kyron against this woman.
I have to assume you’re convinced of her guilt based on what you have heard and read. Claims that are not holding water, and few if any can be attributed to LE or the DA.
Question for you: Why is it they refuse to go on the record and call her a suspect?
Respectfully & Peace 2U
Mom3.0 says:
December 20, 2013 at 4:59 pm
I have been looking up successful Federal civil rights suits against DAs & Judges.
It seems to me “but for” two judges relying on DAs in open court for legal advice & opinion
(without intervening) wrt the only allegation severing a mother-daughter in civil actions
for 3.5 years, by preventing
that allegation from being tested, the custody matter would have all been over 3 years ago.
It has not been Kaine’s attorneys who’ve barred testing RSE’s evidence.
It has been individual DAs.
Houze was building a record when he responded “ask Mr Rees. ”
If Rees had not put himself forward in a speaking
advisory role to Judge, as requested by Judge, he could not have had
that riposte posed to him. The judge also asked DA Woods
for comment.
Once in Federal Court on civil rights issues,
the affidavit behind the sting and the Foundation of the RO
can be examined imo.
However, at present, HofB seem to be putting their client’s interests first
while the DA & Judge get themselves on the record.
@Malty. Divorce has been in a neverending “strategic
stall,” not of Moulton’s making. IIRC, in the first year Bunch offered
to proceed to settle the divorce, finances and all, holding only
custody issues in abeyance due to the criminal charges embedded in the RO.
@TRuth,
Here are my flip answers. Apology in advance.
#1 They needed him, and still do.
#2 3+ years and counting and have never heard anyone plead for whomever has Kyron to return him.
#3 He’s a cop.
#4 For show. (See, we’re not dysfunctional at all.)
@Grace, Are you saying you do not believe TH and RSE had a language barrier, and there was no miscommunication about the MFH, as Houze alleges?
@ vw
Thanks for stating these basic facts about English Language Learners— Basic Interpersonal Communication Skills —BICS– or social language, and Cognitive Academic Language Proficiency— CALP— formal academic learning skills in listening, speaking, reading, writing— having the ability to analyze, evaluate, and infer what one hears or reads, and respond accordingly with appropriate language production. This was also my Masters area and teaching area as well for many years.
Even if RSE ran a business, that is no indicator of his language ability. BICS are deceiving in that a typical person might assume the ELL understands, but in reality, they’ve only understood in part and cannot make appropriate inferences to meaning. Include with that some machismo, not wanting to look like he doesn’t comprehend, and that’s a whole other layer of confusion. I taught with two different men who came from Spanish speaking countries, and all through their doctorate work, they would have me proof their papers for language errors. These were educated people, so I have to wonder about this landscaper’s language proficiency— and the training / methods of those who interviewed him.
I saw on one of those anti crater sites they are changing to anti Terri Moulton so I wondered if she changed her last name
Another thing about Spanish where I worked some could not understand each other because they came from different parts of Mexico and my coworkers who took a Spanish class couldn’t communicate well after the effort
So I never took a class If you work with a Spanish speaking person often The two of you kind get a understanding of a mix of Spanish and English
That’s how it was for me
Anyway I thought I missed the devorce
@Blink. wrt “…. since both DY and KH have stated that the mfh plot “convinced them” of TMH involvement in Kyron’s disappearance in the first place- and since it is CLEARLY an unsubstantiated if not flat out false accusation- How does one justify what has been done to this woman and child for over 4 years? B”
Try the “7 Deadly Sins” succintly listed in the Urban Dictionary.
—–
@vw. That’s probably why in the depo RSE couldn’t provide the “words” she said.
He just got a nonverbal message. between chips & dip.
@erose/EssayKaye. What attorney who knows the Rules of Procedure, as well as ethical standards, would have predicted JK would still have Rees and Wood in his Courtroom litigating and advocating without Intervening? At this point HofB will be laying a record in any brief for appeal, or for Fed Court.
@TRuth
Your question has always bugged me, no body begging for Kyron to be returned , it just seems mighty odd
To me
And 3and 4 both seem mighty odd also
5 would be why from the very minute that conference ended People were online saying Terri did it
@TRuth
Over the years I have seen many fathers ask for a hour or two to be off for their child school activity
At school so I never I stood why Kaine couldn’t attend But could come home early
http://www.peoples-law.org/node/457
plain english comment on Fed civil rights suits
against judges (can’t seek a monetary remedy)
& DAs.
@Malty,
next hearing (though docket says trial. I don’t know difference) is Jan 2 & 3. It is to deal with finances, temp support and dividing assets. temp parenting time sometime after that, at Bunch’s request. if those two things happen, the final divorce trial (again why trial) is in june and expected to last about 3 days. If finances and temp parenting haven’t been decided then final trial will take 2 weeks.
the reason the hater crater calls her Terri Moulton is that she doesn’t “deserve” to use the name Horman. They decided this very early on, maybe the first year.
@erose, I like flip answers.
******************
Someone upthread asked about when LE first contacted RSE. My guess, since, the contact was apparently based on Terri Horman’s answers in her interviews in the first place, is right about the time that Keefer slipped up and said this was now a criminal case. (Another person who apparently, in addition to Mr. Horman, was taken into LE’s confidence.) Wasn’t that about June 8/9, 2010? I don’t think the family, or at least KH & DY, were told of RSE that early on.
(TY, I don’t know, which is one of the reasons I’m wondering if he is considered LE by Kantor, and off limits for depo?) I’m thinking that came around the time Gossen was removed from the case and O’Donnell took over. Which I believe was around June 18/23 2010, somewhere in there. I think O’Donnell was the one who broke the news to Mr. Horman, thus one of the reasons Houze wants his depo. This is all just my best guess, based on public appearances and attitudes.
***********
I have a question, why can’t Kantor, since the RO is nil now anyway, separate the two cases? Why can’t he go ahead and allow anything and everything involved in the MFH accusation, if there is no longer an active investigation into that matter? Other than covering the coutny’s arse, why not? I mean, is there some legal statute stopping him from doing so?
***********
Malty:
The trial on their divorce and financial matters is scheduled for Jan. 2. The full child custody and parenting trial will wait until mid-June.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/11/judge_allows_horman_divorce_tr.html
I could be wrong, but I don’t think the divorce trial has been rescheduled, just the temporary custody issues.
It’s a good question though, does anything change at all once they are divorced? Other than Kaine & Terri both would be free to legally remarry, IDK. Makes me wonder what if Kaine does remarry and the baby has a new *mommy*, how will that weigh in on the custody issues later on?
This case is just so tragic all the way around. If only we could find Kyron. Sigh.
cd says:
December 20, 2013 at 10:47 pm
(snip)
I think that JK was being snarky when he ask about the statute of limitations. Especially since he ask about it before and the DA told him it would just be a little more time. Maybe JK wanted to see if the DA would repeat the “bit more time” promise. I’ll bet JK knew full well what the statute of limitations was for the MFH and he was just pushing the DA’s buttons.
****************
Yep.
Blink says: It is my personal belief they intend to challenge LE privilege on the issue overall. In that- in order for it to be privileged, excluded from public information if you will, it has to be prosecutable. Imo DA Rees has evidence to the contrary and therefore the matter is subject to public disclosure. (snipped)
____
I’ll presume for the moment RSE made it all up… he lied to take the pressure off of being a POI and LE used his weakness as an opportunity to then pressure Terri. Kaine jumped on board because he thought Terri disappeared his son. Desiree jumped on board because her mommy instincts screamed Terri did it (meanwhile her mommy instincts are really guilt driven echos of her own subconscious) and local LE just didn’t have a clue how to tackle this case so created one debacle after another and are now trying to figure out how to undo this mess with the help of Portland movers and shakers and power takers.
*I wish I wasn’t on this side of it, Blink, because I respect you a ton. I have questions and appreciate that you take the time.*
That still begs the question why Houze didn’t expect this and why he wasn’t more prepared to argue for RSE cross with regards to the investigation of the MFH. That is his responsibility, not Kantor’s. Kantor only needs to decide on the information and arguments provided to him and Houze for whatever reason didn’t offer up much.
You are assuming he did not and that is not correct. The court is governed by the Oregon/US Supreme Court as the foundational element here. Lawyers are advesarial opponents under our system, but Judge Kantor is the trier of facts as they relate to upholding the constitution and as such is charged with neutrality, and frankly, the best interests of the child standard ( in this court room).
Kantor has already ruled that witnesses cannot discuss what they said to LE, and in some cases, disallowed the question as to whether or not they told anything to LE. It is ludicrous ( yes, I used that word) to allow factually relevant elements to be precluded from cross examination, ALL OF WHICH were instituted by conversation and participation in an active investigation, by LE, which Kantor ruled off limits. Not only did he reverse himself, but he literally went on the record to “suggest” that there could be charges relevant to the witness
So here’s the rub. Houze knows he cannot examine as to LE, and has been very specific in following that guideline. Why would Engel think he was given a different set of rules? I will tell you why- it is because his clients interests, Thayne’s interests and Rees’s interests are aligned. When that happens it becomes subject to INADMISSABILITY of hearsay evidence, period.
In family court, the court is burdened with BabyK’s best interests as it related to custody and said testimony is to be adverse to those interests to be admitted. So now, we have the Judge acting as a GAL.
Specifically, Baby K has a right, as a party, to maintain the parental relationship and
Are we seeing breaches to constitutionality in Kantor’s courtroom? If Terri won’t talk and her attorney won’t take action or even argue vehemently on her behalf then we’ll just keep seeing the same, which may be part of Houze’s plan, gives him more to work with later.
This is just not how it works AS- Kaine cannot call a declarant hearsay witness and preclude his impeachment from the other party. It against the rules of evidence, lol, to argue the admissability of evidence without a specific hearing- which is exactly what Bunch and Houze knew the minute that Kantor half-ruled and put TMH constitutional protections in the shitter. ( pardon my French)
See:
40.475¹
Rule 806. Attacking and supporting credibility of declarant
When a hearsay statement, or a statement defined in ORS 40.450 (Rule 801. Definitions for ORS 40.450 to 40.475) (4)(b)(C), (D) or (E), has been admitted in evidence, the credibility of the declarant may be attacked, and if attacked may be supported, by any evidence which would be admissible for those purposes if the declarant had testified as a witness. Evidence of a statement or conduct by the declarant at any time, inconsistent with the hearsay statement of the declarant, is not subject to any requirement under ORS 40.380 (Rule 613. Prior statements of witnesses) relating to impeachment by evidence of inconsistent statements. If the party against whom a hearsay statement has been admitted calls the declarant as a witness, the party is entitled to examine the declarant on the statement as if under cross-examination. [1981 c.892 §67]
So what I am saying is- HouzeofBunch knows a bag of briefs were not proper, and that the only recourse they have once Kantor did not disallow the witness and strike it from the record and in fact ordered he may testify, one must attack the admissability in the proper way.
Allowing this hearsay witness and then not allowing him to be cross examined is a violation of the rules of evidence according to our constitution, which it seems Kantor is in need of a copy. It is not incumbant upon Houze to argue rules of law outside the proper procedure and he knew that, and was not willing “push it forward” to the detriment of his client’s rights.
I look forward to LE having their feet held to the fire. I’m not kidding when I say this, and here’s why. Kyron. He deserves to be found and the Skyline community deserves to know if there is a predator in their midst willing to walk in a school and take a small child.
As Tony said, if Terri didn’t do this, then who? Well, LE needs to step back and figure that out already.
My question, Blink: I’m assuming it’s up to Houze to take this to the federal bench. At what point do you see him deciding to do this?
If Kantor is issuing a memo with the order, I think that will decide next steps in that regard.
B
Malty says:
December 21, 2013 at 10:46 am
(snipped)
I saw on one of those anti crater sites they are changing to anti Terri Moulton so I wondered if she changed her last name
———————————–
Just an informational comment about names, generally re women –
A name can be changed very simply upon marriage or divorce. A name can be changed anytime by following the legal process (notifications and fees) to do so. And basically, you can call yourself whatever you want if you aren’t trying to do anything deceptive or illegal. However, a woman’s legal maiden name is always hers and can be used without doing anything at all, even if it appears not to be her official name on marriage paperwork.
So if TH wants to use her maiden name, she does not have to file a legal change or wait for the divorce to be final, or get anyone’s permission.
Interesting thought. … So RSE “says” TMH wanted a MFH. Supposedly, if RSE didn’t make that particular statement to LE, it might mean he is the actual POI in the disappearance of Kyron.
so…. if the MFH story is untrue, maybe RSE really IS responsible for the disappearance of Kyron.
Without a confession or further proof and with the option of sending him back over the border, LE may have chosen to not lean on him too hard because it would be easier to make a case against TMH???
Blink, can we totally disprove that RSE is responsible for the disappearance of Kyron? Maybe HE is the real perp.
(Wonder if he was ever at the school??)
@ Amys Sister says: December 21, 2013 at 1:19 am
Blink replied:
…. I think he felt he needed a story to be sitting on the right side of the interview table ( where have we heard this before) because he found himself a POI in the disappearance of a 7 year old child.
I can only say that he was not the last person with Kyron to my knowledge, or SZ.
B
erose says:
December 21, 2013 at 9:06 am
@Grace, Are you saying you do not believe TH and RSE had a language barrier, and there was no miscommunication about the MFH, as Houze alleges?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi Erose, I said nothing about that in my post. My point was simply that interpreters are used in court when there is a question about an individual’s ability to comprehend or express his/her thoughts in English. Since none of us has interviewed or spoken with RSE, we don’t know the level of his English language skills. That said, I will be surprised if he is strictly Spanish-speaking.
To answer your question : Anything is possible. It is possible there was/is a language barrier. It is
possible that it was a miscommunication. It is possible she attempted to solicit. It is possible it never occurred. I have always said that the solicitation accusation rings true for me in the context of the case. My opinion might change if I had access to the transcript of the sting or if any other information comes to light.
Since I have no idea what evidence LE has in this case, I am trying to keep an open mind.
erose says:
December 21, 2013 at 8:44 am
@Mom3.0, Why should she trust anyone on Mult Co payroll, was my point.
—-
Got it erose- but she is utilizing one of the best criminal attorneys to seek resolution thru the courts correct? ALL of the court is essentially on that payroll- correct? and yet she and her lawyers are maneuvering thru that just fine-
so IF so many are critical of the judge for not appointing a GAL shouldnt they be just as critical of Terri for not utilizing her right to ask for a GAL for the child her attornies claim she is wanting the best interests of addressed?
My point Erose is that all of the outrage over a GAL should be shared over Teris inactions to stand up and ask for a GAL … not the judges inaction as again there are no abuse allegations no neglect allegations and there is a no contact order in place which the judge brought forth- who other than Terri would wish for a GAL in this situation? who other than Terri claims the best interests of Kitty are being overlooked?
—-
You wrote
I don’t know how many ways to say this wrt TH, but if you are ever in the cross hairs of LE, you should exercise your Miranda rights, speak to an attorney, who will most likely have you plead the 5th in a civil case that is being used to further a criminal investigation.
—====
erose it is only your opinion that the civil case is being utilize to further the criminal case- but in that regard wouldnt it be true that terri is also using this civil case to further her side in the criminal case?
erose, isnt it true that you cant exercise your miranda rights unless you are arrested and given your miranda rights- as for speaking to an attorney yes I would hope I would be in a position to speak to an attorney- and not a court appointed one if I was ever “in the cross hairs of LE”
but we are discussing a missing child and a divorce case so no I would not invoke my 5th amendment rights as I would feel much like Lea Conner:
Lea Conner says:
snipped:
February 2, 2011 at 9:29 pm
* Personal opinion: If I were the parent, stepparent, relative, or friend of a
missing child, I would do whatever law enforcement asked me to do
because I’d want my child/stepchild/relative/friend to come home. That is
not the kind of thing that defense lawyers tell their clients, however
http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/01/30/fugitive-cop-shooter-david-durhams-house-located-in-new-kyron-horman-search-grid/comment-page-7/#comme
end snip-
I would nt hire the best criminal attorney out of the gate I would hire the best family lawyer out of the gate
but if I did hire a criminal attorney
and *if* my criminal attorney advised me to drop my bid at visitation and custody for 3 years of my baby till she was 5- no I do not believe I would follow his advice as I would submit to all evaluations and I would hand over all my medical records- I would have fought the RO from day one on- and I would speak to the media at every turn -because I would not sit silent while one of my children is missing and while the other is withheld from me -
I just wouldn’t-
even if I felt like I was “in the cross hairs” of LE i would not remain silent as without my voice and my info how could I ever hope to help them right their wrong avenue of pursuit?
I would be much like Jacee Dugards s. father- I would never stop looking I would help in any way possible- even though LE was still looking at me as a Potential suspect even though my friends and family and community may have their doubts of my innocence- still I would brave it all even jail- in my effort to help by NOT remaining silent.
If I thought for a moment that my childs best interests were not being addressed i would ask for a GAL and i would submit to family services full evaluation and questions
——-
You wrote:
That is why she is pleading the 5th, because she has not been charged with anything. Mult Co has not made a case on the MFH or the disappearance of Kyron against this woman.
—
Respectfully erose you do not know if this is Terris reason or not for the 5th- one possibility is she could be utilizing her 5th amendment right not to self incriminate because she may be trying to hide behind the privilege—
You wrote:
I have to assume you’re convinced of her guilt based on what you have heard and read. Claims that are not holding water, and few if any can be attributed to LE or the DA.
====
erose, why on earth would you have to assume I am convinced of terris guilt? I have been clear Im not
I am discussing possibilities-
It seems at every turn I am stating my feelings that I do not know if she is guilty or innocent that I do not claim to know and I am not arguing that she is either- unlike you and so many others who are taking the position that she is undoubtedly innocent- I again do not claim to know and I am open to that possibility as well.
still keeping in mind that another possibility is that she may be guilty-
as in truth one of the possible answers to the whys of Terris actions and inactions may = guilt-
as no one can rule out every scenario such as she may have let the vampire in- etc
Guilt with not enough evidence to charge is a possibility a reasonable thought which so many seem unable to even entertain for a moment.
You wrote
Question for you: Why is it they refuse to go on the record and call her a suspect?
—–
If she is guilty if LE believes this, whose to say they think she acted alone? Perhaps they are still working to that end…
next the moment they state that-
the clock starts ticking- to arrest – trial etc
and the fact of the matter may be that even though she may be guilty LE may not have enough to successfully charge arrest or prosecute -
again I am not saying I believe terri to be guilty I am only stating that it IS a possibility- and yes she may be innocent thats also a possibility but it is NOT a fact.
and before anyone says innocent until proven guilty… presumption of innocence etc – we are having a discussion on a crime blog we are not on a jury – we are here discussing mostly unsolved cold cases – we are going over all known facts and info witnesses docs- and possible suspects POIs – we speculate and we debate – we are trying to be the best advocates for the victims and we would be amiss if we did not discuss all possibilities
erose I respect your thoughts and opinions thanks for sharing them w/ me most appreciated
AJMO & Peace
Thanks Mom3.0
I was just giving the background of why Spanish is different by locality in South and Central America. However, VW in post #20 on this page raises a more important problem of understanding idioms in the
English language when it is a second language.
As a sophomore in college,so many years ago, our English class in the fall semester studied the origin of language and then the idioms in use in various parts of the USA. Where possible, these were studied from a historical standpoint as to their likely source. This was a real eye opener to most.
Kantor should have access by subscription to Lexis/Nexis from his computer to look up state and case law or Oregon state may also provide statues on-line to the courts and law enforcement. IMO, if he is depending on help from the DA, he is not fit to serve on the bench of this court. He simply lacks capacity.
Kat says:
December 21, 2013 at 10:42 am
@ vw
Kat says “Even if RSE ran a business, that is no indicator of his language ability. BICS are deceiving in that a typical person might assume the ELL understands, but in reality, they’ve only understood in part and cannot make appropriate inferences to meaning. Include with that some machismo, not wanting to look like he doesn’t comprehend, and that’s a whole other layer of confusion. I taught with two different men who came from Spanish speaking countries, and all through their doctorate work, they would have me proof their papers for language errors. These were educated people, so I have to wonder about this landscaper’s language proficiency— and the training / methods of those who interviewed him.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi Kat: There are state and federal statutes that address language access in the courts for individuals with Limited English Proficiency (LEP). The federal Civil Rights Act requires state courts that receive federal funds to provide interpreters to LEP individuals in civil and criminal cases. These interpreters must be provided without charge. Do some jurisdictions shirk their responsibilities? Unfortunately, they do, but that does not mean they did so during RSE’s deposition.
My state licenses and regulates court interpreters. For anyone who is interested in the standards, the following is snipped from “Language Access in Texas Courts” website:
“Interpreters
Information about licensing process – The Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation licenses court interpreters for language interpretation. An applicant for a court interpreter’s license must pass oral and written exams designed by the Consortium for Language Access in the Courts.
TDLR website – Contains information about the licensed court interpreter program’s exam requirements, application process, fees, program rules, the code of professional responsibility for licensed court interpreters, and continuing education requirements.
NCSC Consortium for Language Access in the Courts website
Information about interpreter education/training programs – Court interpreting is a highly skilled profession that requires college or graduate level education, training, and experience, as well as knowledge of both high level legal terminology and many registers of slang.”
The good news is that most states have joined the Consortium.
The American Bar Association also has standards for access of language in the courts.
The Shortest Day
by Susan Cooper
And so the Shortest Day came and the year died
And everywhere down the centuries of the snow-white world
Came people singing, dancing,
To drive the dark away.
They lighted candles in the winter trees;
They hung their homes with evergreen;
They burned beseeching fires all night long
To keep the year alive.
And when the new year’s sunshine blazed awake
They shouted, revelling.
Through all the frosty ages you can hear them
Echoing behind us – listen!
All the long echoes, sing the same delight,
This Shortest Day,
As promise wakens in the sleeping land:
They carol, feast, give thanks,
And dearly love their friends,
And hope for peace.
And now so do we, here, now,
This year and every year.
——-
Often a young boy has recited this at the conclusion of winter solstice performances. So I post this in honor of Kyron, who is echoing behind us… May the darkness overlaying his abduction be driven away in the New Year.
Just a few of the cases we might want to explore, more listed @ link:
“The liberty interest of the family encompasses an interest in retaining custody of one’s children and, thus, a state may not interfere with a parent’s custodial rights absent due process protections.”
Langton v. Maloney, 527 F Supp 538, D.C. Conn. (1981).
“Parent’s interest in custody of her children is a liberty interest which has received considerable constitutional protection; a parent who is deprived of custody of his or her child, even though temporarily, suffers thereby grievous loss and such loss deserves extensive due process protection.”
In the Interest of Cooper, 621 P 2d 437; 5 Kansas App Div 2d 584,(1980).
“No bond is more precious and none should be more zealously protected by the law as the bond between parent and child.”
Carson v. Elrod, 411 F Supp 645, 649; DC E.D. VA (1976).
http://deltabravo.net/cms/plugins/content/content.php?content.325
You are right, Amy’s Sister, in this trial JK is the Trier of Fact(s) which both parties bring forward.
The other half of his trial hat is handling Matters of Law. When it comes to “housekeeping” from OR Rules
of Procedure, he’s supposed to know that stuff. My guess he was a business attorney before this 2nd career path.
@Malty wrt “5 would be why from the very minute that conference ended People were online saying Terri did it”
You nail it.