Blink On Crime Kyron Horman Investigation Exclusive: DeDe Spicher Interview Yields Allegations Of Illegal Steroid Use Terri Horman Took To Police
A Blink On Crime Exclusive: DeDe Spicher speaks for the first time about her ordeal in the Kyron Horman investigation- continued ©
S. Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief- Blink On Crime
DeDe Spicher and Terri Moulton Horman
In the first part of blinkoncrime.com’s exclusive interview with DeDe Spicher, she revealed that after over 3 years of attempting to provide Multnomah County Sheriffs Office as well as Assistant Deputy Attorney Norm Frink with the necessary information they requested to clear her from any suspicion in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Skyline second grader Kyron Horman; she has finally been cleared after passing a polygraph as part of her requirement under an immunity deal that has been sealed with the court. Unofficially cleared, that is.
Spicher and her attorney Chad Stavley, who have since refused all local media requests, would very much like the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office and current District Attorney Rod Underhill to clear her officially and publicly.
Spicher is adamant that law enforcement never had any reason to question her statements to them from the beginning, has cooperated fully for over three years and recently testified before the grand jury to prove she had nothing to hide. While she would like the public to know that any assertions to the contrary are untrue, and sometimes have been offered maliciously, her desire to speak out about her experience over the last three years is primarily to force investigative resources to review it’s progress- and hopefully adjust in a way to further leads in Kyron’s case.
As was proven not only by her recent polygraph, but also by the verification that no evidence ever existed to support investigator’s theory in the first place, Spicher had no information about anyone’s potential involvement in Kyron’s disappearance, let alone her own.
The continuation of our interview, which provoked some very interesting revelations long felt to be a possibility by many, was confirmed by Ms. Spicher as she says- told to her by Terri Moulton Horman are prompting new possible theories in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Kyron Horman. Two days after Kyron Horman’s eleventh birthday.
Stoy: So, in your estimation then, why do you think that detectives Herron and Kravfe were so sure that you were involved or knew who was.
Spicher: I have thought about this a lot, and I think there were a few reasons. I think because I was advised through a meeting Terri had with a family friend and attorney that she should assume that all of her communication was being monitored by law enforcement and anyone she had contact with. He told her to assume the house was bugged as well as vehicles, etc. I also believe you did an article a while back that pointed out her phone was in Kaine’s name. As this was a day or two after she was served with the restraining order, she was also told that
Stoy (interrupting): You bought a prepaid phone after June 28th and never had one before that? I had read that you or someone else purchased them the day of or the day after Kyron’s disappearance.
Spicher: No. I purchased one prepaid phone, after Terri shared the info from her meeting, in my own name, either June 29th or 30th. I think they were hung up on the fact that I came to her aid with no contact for so long so they just were convinced there had to be.
Stoy: ok, sorry, continue. So you are not saying that LE was suggesting that you were hiding some other number you had and that was how they were alleging that you HAD to have been in contact with Terri or some other person prior to and on June 4th and that escalated your “poi” status in your opinion?
Spicher: They did not say that to me specifically, but what they repeated over and over again, was that Terri and I had to have had some form of communication we were hiding. It never made any sense to me because I knew I only had my cell that I had forever until the end of June, and I knew I had not been in contact with Terri since her 40th birthday party in March. So I would ask- well then I guess that means that you don’t have any contacts you can’t verify from either of us so why am I even in this “interview”?
To my recollection they never shared with me or answered any of my questions in response when something they kept hounding me about seemed absurd and conflicting with their theory.
Stoy: Which was?
Spicher: At first, I think that they really believed I was involved, and at some point I think they were talking more “accessory after the fact” because I got the impression ( although they did not share it with me) that Terri’s cell phone activity that day was nowhere near where I was, and my vehicle never left, nor did I. They would not verify that they located the ceramics/glassware artist [pottery artisan] I told you about and still have not.
Stoy: So in your opinion, you were clearly the linchpin of this case, they [LE] believed you held the key to solving it and/or implicating Terri exclusively at that point, they no longer entertained your involvement per se?
Spicher: I honestly don’t think I could say that I ever believed that they stopped treating me as some sort of suspect. I never felt that way, but yes, absolutely they 100% believe that Terri is responsible and I definitely believed we all had to be interviewed and scrutinized or whatever, but I really thought up until the meeting with Norm Frink that they [LE] would abandon that theory quickly because if they were positive I was the key, and I knew I was not, that would also eliminate Terri, who I did not and do not believe, but have no proof, was involved or knew anything.
Stoy: Right, so if you had nothing, and they felt you were the only nexus, it had to mean that they had no independent evidence of anything or anyone else so they would start in another direction?
Spicher: Right, but every interaction I had with them following and including the request to participate in the sting against her, made me believe they never did. To get back to the why question you asked me- my final thought on that is that they kept pointing out that I was the person to tell everyone not to speak to them without attorneys in the beginning. I would ask like who do you mean, because that would have been my opinion across the board for any situation, but it was definitely based on what was getting out about how they were going about this. I was scared and it turned out it was good reason. I also would point out to them that I did not think that was or should be the basis for suspicion because if it was, it seemed to me that I was told that several staff members at Skyline had hired counsel, and Kaine was the FIRST to have one between he and Terri and I had told her at least a week or so before that she should.
Stoy: Why do you think she did not immediately take your friendly advice? Your Dad was LE, and I presume she knew that. People can say what they want, but I know many members of law enforcement in different jurisdictions and agencies. I have worked with them or contributed analysis to cases with them privately [I cannot and would not ever include that in anything I choose to write on] and I can tell you that I do not know one of them that if they were the focus of a criminal probe or internal investigation they absolutely do not agree to an interview without a representative. In fact, Herron is or was the President of Mulnomah County Police Union or was, if I recall correctly. So to that end, I find that a pretty hypocritical reason for suspicion of anyone.
Spicher: (laughs) Interesting. I am not sure that I knew that. The reason Terri didn’t get an atty before the RO was because she was told by LE that if she did, she wouldn’t be privvy to any of their investigative discoveries, she would be out of the loop in finding Kyron.
Stoy: Have you had a desire or opportunity to review any sort of past events regarding the MCSO, I guess I should add, that involve anyone in this case or investigation you have had contact with?
Spicher: No, do you mean like any other detectives or that sort of thing?
Stoy: Have you ever met with or been interviewed with any other agencies or detectives?
Spicher: I believe I either met or just said hello to the guy you mentioned in that recent article of yours while he was at the house. Both Kaine and Terri were there at the time as well.
Stoy: Bobby O’Donnell?
Spicher: That’s it, yes, him. Why did you ask me if I am aware of any sort of events- should I be?
Stoy: Well, I think that tangentially if I were you I would be considering just about everything as it related to what you have been through, and I am aware of some what I will refer to as “stuff” but what I don’t want to do prior to the completion of our interview process is temper any of your responses with anything I know peripherally if that’s ok with you. If you wish, once I publish the continuation which will have that sort of information, I would invite you to comment on it for the record if you choose- are you ok with that?
Spicher: yes, that’s fine and probably a good idea.
Stoy: back briefly to the “sting request against Terri- On that issue- the request they extended to you outside the presence of your attorney and that they asked you not to tell Chad, as you think back , considering you have had no communication with Horman for over three years did you believe they thought it would work? What did your attorney say when you told him?
Spicher: I can’t and won’t address any conversations I have had with my attorney, but to answer your question as to my opinion, I really don’t know for sure, I knew that I did not, and thought it was really, really odd- that was my first reaction. After more thought, and other conversations, I don’t see how they thought it would work, or why they were still seemingly convinced after I had just passed the poly, etc, Terri was still their suspect and responsible. What is your opinion on it?
Stoy: I think I may reserve my thoughts on that for my piece. Again, not wanting to temper your opinions as we move along here and I think that could happen if I did. Is that ok with you?
Spicher: Sure, thank you.
Stoy: I would like to move on to another subject for discussion. I would just like to confirm for the record that I have never prior to this interview, asked you any questions about your potential knowledge of steroid use by yourself, or by Terri or Kaine Horman. Is that correct?
Spicher: Correct, ok.
Stoy: Did they ask you this?
Spicher: Who is they? You got a lot of pronouns flying around (laughs).
Stoy: Fair point, you’re right. The good news is, as English, or should I say proper English is my second language (laughs) I use an copy editor. Allow me to rephrase please. Did anyone in law enforcement at any time ask you about steroids or other illegal injectable supplements sometimes used in weight training or body building in your interviews in this case?
Spicher: Your question was did they [le] ask me anything about steroids or anything injectable ever?
Stoy: (laughs) now who’s throwing around the pronouns?
Spicher: (laughs) touche’ . I was asked about it very vaguely in the beginning, I told them I had never used them, that I did not believe Terri ever did because she and I had similar views against using them and while we were on different supplement regimens when I was training for a marathon in 2008 I still remembered her to be knowledgeable about legal and effective nutritional supplements. I had no reason to believe she had ever used any kind of steroids. I can’t say conclusively she never did but it would shock me.
Stoy: Why shock you?
Spicher: Because a few years back I recall Terri telling me that Kaine was what she referred to as “juicing” and that his behavior had become very aggressive and well, impatient or overeactive with the kids and she had discussed it with him and he ignored her.
Stoy: So for the record, when you say juicing you are referring to illegal steroids, not my Omega specials I make, correct? That was the only question they ever asked you and did not ask any follow up questions like how long ago, etc, etc. And so would you characterize the way law enforcement asked that question and their reaction to your response as disinterested, or having nothing to do with the case?
Spicher: I was never asked about Kaine’s use of steroids by either detectives or the grand jury. But yes, that is what she told me. I actually had forgotten all about it until she refreshed my recollection when I stayed there with her. To the best of my memory I was asked just what I said, I answered as I just said and was never asked any follow up question nor was it mentioned again to me by law enforcement . I don’t think I ever really understood what they did or did not think in terms of my information was important to the case, but yes, they were disinterested from my perspective as to it was the only time I was ever asked about it over the course of three and a half years and so my assumption is they still are. But that is my assumption.
Stoy: Understood, you are referring to the time you stayed at the Horman home late June 2010 through early July 2010 following Kaine’s service of the restraining order and her exclusive use of the home? Spicher: I am not sure about the exclusive use part, I didn’t really know anything about how that sort of thing worked and I think for some reason I want to say Terri was not allowed to show anyone.
Stoy: Ok. Tell me everything you know about that. But, I would like you to see if you can provide me your recollection from what you were told about steroid use PRIOR to your conversations about it that refreshed your memory. By the way, who else knows about this, if you know.
Spicher: Terri’s attorney Stephen Houze.
Stoy: How would you know that?
Spicher: Because I helped her load them up, what appeared to me to be syringes in a box and deliver it to her attorney’s office, she said, at his request. She also located some cancelled checks for what she said was Kaine’s payment for steroids. I don’t remember who they were made out to but it was not to cash.
Stoy: ok, understood, we will get back to that. I want to try and focus on what she told you those “few years back.” Do you recall what year, even ballpark.
Spicher: I want to say, but can’t be sure, it was after her competition in 2005, and I am tempted to say it was around the time they got married or shortly thereafter- I am just not going to be much help in remembering this if you are asking me to extract what I remembered from then on my own.
Stoy: Nope, that’s what I am asking, your fine, I don’t want to lead you but let me ask you a few things that may help. Do you remember where you were during the conversation.
Spicher: I remember it was either the one and only time I ever had lunch with Terri, or it was during a time she called my cell, Terri had a lot of drama, and so I was in a Home & Garden Show class and I recall I was saying things out loud to let he know I was not free to talk really or respond as she was talking, so I was saying things like… I don’t know, we should probably touch base on that when I am done here, or sounds good that we chat on it later.
Stoy: The brush up the other party is not getting, like that?
Spicher: Yes, she was not getting it and so I was kind of 50% paying attention. It was either during that call or at the lunch. Other than that, I am not remembering the timing so well.
Stoy: But you would say a few years before Kyron went missing so based on that 2007 or 2008? Do you remember if they were married at the time?
Spicher: Again, we were friends for a good number of years but not close friends, I almost felt like if she was calling me or talking to me about it she had no other option at the time.
Stoy: Got it. What did she say
Spicher: She said that Kaine had been aggressive with her and impatient with the children and she attributed that to his “juicing”. She confronted him and she felt he did not listen to her. She told me that she then called a detective and turned in Kaine’s seller. The member at the gym, I used to know the name but I really can’t recall because I was in the early morning crowd and this guy was more afternoon, I presume when they were there or they saw him. I had stopped going to the same gym as them ater the first year or two I met them there.
Stoy: So she called a detective to turn in the seller Kaine was buying steroids from? Wasn’t she concerned about the fact that buying them is also illegal and that Kaine could face charges?
SPicher: She told me that she contacted a detective and said she would be willing to turn over information about someone selling steroids but only if she could do so anonymously and without saying who was buying them, etc.
Stoy: So it was your understanding that she was trying to work out a scenario that would stop Kaine’s use without him ever knowing it was her by turning in that person? Sort of like… she gets approval to remain anonymous, she gives the tip and then one day comes home and says… “Hey honey, guess what I heard at the gym.. you better stop that or you could be arrested for it, etc?
Spicher: Yes, something like that. Except and again, we have discussed it at one or both these occasions, but that did not work out. The detective called her again directly and she was upset that there was further contact. From what I recall, I think that was the tone of what she was telling me.
Stoy: Understood, so you are thinking that it may have been why she was sort of wired about it and not hearing you try to go about your day, but insisting and venting like she was upset by it.
Spicher: Yes, I think so.
Stoy: Do you think she could have called you because your Dad was law enforcement and she might need that sort of advice. I don’t think so because she did not ask for any. So then what? Did Kaine find out?
Spicher: I just remember there was some sort of investigation of the guy, and I really don’t know if Kaine ever found out about it or knows to this day. If the seller or anyone was arrested or anything else at the time I do not remember, that was how much I paid attention to it then until Terri reminded me of it.
Stoy: Ok. Now, why is it that Terri was discussing it with you when you were staying at the house with her in your view?
Spicher: Because after the restraining order was served and I guess she realized where Kaine was headed, it was sort of like- if he was going to badmouth her, in her estimation it was false, but anyway, that Kaine had skeletons in his own closet sort of thing. She told her lawyer [Houze] and she said he instructed her to bring the syringes and the cancelled checks to his office. We did.
Stoy: So was Terri saying that Kaine was using steroids behind her back and she found this or that she knew and was having sort of the same reaction as last time, or she just learned once he was out of the home or what? Was she suggesting this to you like it had something to do with Kyron’s disappearance?
Spicher: I got the impression she did not know, or at least did not know when the last time he was using them was, but it gets fuzzy for me there because it is my belief up until the time the RO was served, in my opinion she would have tried to protect Kaine from le finding out so I don’t know if she told le, but it would surprise me. Terri was always very family centric. She would protect her family unit, and that is why she did the turning in thing, this would seem the same to me until he made those murder for hire allegations.
Stoy: So did you get the impression from her that she thought that her allegation of Kaine’s steroid use had anything to do with Kyron’s disappearance?
Spicher: No, not at all.
Stoy: Nothing like, maybe this happened as some sort of retribution against her for turning someone in previously or against Kaine if they thought he was involved because after all she says he was the one buying it back then?
Spicher: No, she told me she had no idea who was responsible for Kyron’s disappearance or why, and the only possibility she came up with after the fact because of his past behavior and the fact that he showed up at her door demanding $10,000 she had no idea what he was talking about, that it was the landscaper. He was the only person acting like a criminal at the time.
Stoy: Have you ever seen a text of hers involving the custody situation after the fact, after the Rudy Sanchez Estrada “sting” and she called police twice that day/evening that ended with “mark 1 for the FBI.”
Spicher: I may have, if I did I don’t remember it specifically.
Stoy: She specifically said the FBI, who has only ever assisted in this case, and who has no jurisdictional presence in Kyron’s case, I was just wondering if you had any thoughts on that.
Spicher: No, I don’t have any idea what she meant.
Is it possible that illegal steroid use or sales and the recent public outing there was an ongoing Federal Investigation with the emphasis on police and gym members that included persons familiar to the Horman’s contributed to the circumstances involving the disappearance of Kyron Horman?
Has it been excluded by having more law enforcement investigating themselves?
Roid Rumors and Boys In Blue.. Coincidence Or Clue?
It is no secret that Oregon has seen it’s share of corruption allegations in recent years. The very public and very disturbing account of it’s Governor Neil Goldschmidt’s involvement with a 14 year old girl earned Willamette Week’s Nigel Jaquiss a Pulitzer in 2005 for breaking the story a year earlier. As a strong argument for the trickle down effect, Goldschmidt’s former driver Bernie Giusto- who became the Multnomah County Sheriff following the debacle, was forced to resign his position when a State agency declared they would be removing his police certifications due to his lack of “moral fitness” outlined in the now infamous Giusto Report. A former Sheriff, Bob Skipper, was then appointed to take his place, but after two attempts could not pass the required certifications. The current Multnomah Sheriff Dan Staton, who has since won an election, was appointed in his place. Several current MCSO officers assigned to Kyron’s case were interviewed for the Giusto report.
In fact, Bobby O’Donnell was the lead investigator in Kyron’s case for the first 18 months who according to his own words in his interview was the unfortunate subject of an allegation involving his own very messy divorce.
MCSO Sgt Brett Ritchie stated in a police interview that O’Donnell was seen waving a gun and threatening his life [Ritchie] after he began dating O’Donnell’s ex wife. Laura O’Donnell was granted a restraining order against him that later became an agreement between the couple.
The lead investigator in the case of a missing child openly threatened a ranking officer and that incident was never investigated outside of Ritchie being told to stay away from O’Donnell. O’Donnell’s deposition and his motion to quash it are the subject of a hearing scheduled for Friday September 13, 2013.
There is no question the agency tasked with the investigation into the disappearance of Kyron Horman has had several and more recent embarrassing entanglements.
In another investigative piece by the Willamette Week, it exposes the egregious overtime paychecks that members of the prosecutors and investigators assigned to Kyron’s case have received during the early months following Kyron’s disappearance.
It is unclear how Multnomah County ever had jurisdiction in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance. According to the Skyline School’s filed safety and response plan, the Portland Police Bureau is the agency of record.
Multnomah County’s former woes might have paled a bit in comparison if only by the difference a year makes to public memory, to that of their fellow neighboring officers in Canby, located in Clackamas County.
After several investigations into the selling and possible use of anabolic steroids a Canby Police officer, which were repeatedly stalled due to his caption tipping other’s off in the alleged ring , Officer Jason Deason was arrested along with Canby Landscape Supply Owner William Traverso, Brian Casey Paul Jackson were arrested. The investigation was believed to be ongoing and Traverso, Deason and Jackson all cut deals for quick prison stints that shocked fellow officers and the public alike. The specifics of which were sealed by the court. It is now known that the Federal Bureau of Investigation continued to require the ongoing cooperation of it’s criminals turned informants to pursue federal indictments against possible targets in law enforcement and members of the bodybuilding set- to include acquaintances of Kaine and Terri Horman.
Presuming the confirmed allegations are true- is it possible that ‘a few years back’ Terri Horman unwittingly set off a state turned Federal investigation into the buying, using and selling of human growth hormone and anabolic steroids? How could this be connected, if it is, to the timing of Kyron’s disappearance even if she had?
“… Jackson, through a plea deal on state charges in 2009 where he admitted to selling anabolic steroids to Canby police officers in uniform, had been working with the FBI on an ongoing investigation when they confronted him with the knowledge that he was found deceptive on a polygraph designed to indicate if Jackson’s participation was far more extensive then he originally admitted to…”
“…Jackson, with his attorney, began cooperating with federal authorities shortly after his arrest. He identified his source for steroids as Vancouver resident Rainbow “Bo” Wild Keepers, 39, a competitive bodybuilder and photographer. Agents ran Keepers’ name in federal databases and discovered that an Arizona man had tipped off the Drug Enforcement Administration years ago that Keepers was his source of steroids. Keepers was never charged…”
On June 3rd, 2010, approximately 24 hours before Kyron Horman’s disappearance, Jackson was arrested on a Federal warrant following a sealed indictment issued the day before after failing a polygraph and refusing to help the FBI further.
From the Indictment:
Between June 2, 2005 and May 2008, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials B.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).
It has since been revealed that the initials BW stand for Bradley Worden. Worden owns a few businesses, all relating to wholesale gym equipment or nutritional products. Worden has never been charged.
Between June 2006 and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials N.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).
The identity of the person with initials NW is unknown.
Between June 2, 2005, and December 2007,: in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule illcontrolled substances, to a person with the initials G.P., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and
841(b)( 1)(E).
The identity of the person with the initials G.P is unknown.
Between June 2, 2005, and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule III controlled substances, to a person with the initials S.B., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and 84l(b)(1)(E).
The initials S.B. refer to Steve Beaudoin, a former work associate of Jackson’s and current Oregon State safety officer.
According to assistant U.S. Attorney Jane Shoemaker, Jackson sold Beaudoin at least 50 pills of the steroid Winstrol, an injectable steroid called Deca Durabolin, Sustanon and, in June 2007, 100 pills of Anavar on one to two occasions. Shoemaker also said Jackson sold Beaudoin $500 worth of human growth hormone. Investigators discovered the sales through witness interviews and Jackson’s computer records, Shoemaker said.
From Buff To Puff
In contrast to Jackson, although Traverso also sold to Deason and other members of law enforcement, William ‘Jake’ Traverso, a former competitive bodybuilder and “Mr. Oregon” cooperated extensively with the FBI by identifying other law enforcement officers he sold steroids to, and got a lenient sentence of 15 days in jail, 30 days home detention and 24 months probation, with no federal charges.
In a letter submitted to a Clackamas County judge Monday, FBI Special Agent Christopher Frazier said that Traverso has discussed his drug distribution activities in detail. “The public safety employees identified by Traverso included law enforcement officers, corrections officers, fire and rescue personnel and university public safety officers,” Frazier wrote, “Several spin-off FBI public corruption investigations were initiated as a result of these allegations, and are ongoing.”
Traverso, Deason and Jackson were cooperating with the Feds simultaneously, and in a very public way. Although Deason had been similarly employed by the Canby Police under Chief Greg Kroeplin, at least one of the raids on Traverso- Deason’s client, was by Deason’s Canby fellow officer James Murphy.
John Hingson, Traverso’s attorney and past commentator on the Horman case, sparred with then ADA Norm Frink as well. Hingson unearthed the report that included Murphy had been demoted following Deason’s arrest and his credibility was called into question. Murphy worked the graveyard shift with Deason. The report also revealed that both Deason and Officer James Murphy, who was one of the few to initiate an investigation into Deason’s steroid abuse, were put at risk when they were scheduled to work side by side as the only two officers on that shift.
“…Hingson obtained a 2009 report written by private detectives the City of Canby had hired to investigate the steroid scandal. Among their findings: Murphy had been demoted from detective to officer for alleged dishonesty…”
Chief GregKroeplin resigned prior to release of a scorching memo outlining the city’s findings they had outsourced properly to two retired Oregon detectives, which would have resulted in his termination.
Murphy, still employed by Canby Police, is apparently looking to renew the agencies stint for bad press.
On October 13, 2011, six months after former Willamette Week journalist James Pitkin featured his Lord of The Flies article outlining Murphy’s internal investigation led to his demotion for dishonestly, he arrested a freelance sports reporter while taking pictures of him exiting the Canby Police Headquarters on duty and entering his personal vehicle.
Andrew Millbrooke filed a Federal lawsuit in 2012 against The City of Canby, Officer James Murphy and his captain Bret Smith for excessive force and wrongful arrest which took place after Murphy used his cruiser to follow Millbrooke who was on foot. In a police report from another officer in the case, Millbrooke tells him he is a freelance journalist trying to expose corruption and drug use by Officer Murphy. The suit is pending. A review of the declarations by both Mr. Smith and Mr. Murphy do not include the details of the investigative report commissioned by The City Of Canby discussing Mr. Murphy’s prior demotion. Mr. Murphy also had a recent court decision regarding improper procedure [See Bonneau].
With pending motions to release the employment files of some Canby police officers to include Murphy, the charges against Traverso were dismissed this past May due the state delaying the case over 23 months.
Traverso, Deason and Jackson are all currently on probation. Traverso is awaiting trial on recent charges involving watermelon theft.
As the Federal Bureau of Investigation is listed as an investigative partner to MCSO in the Kyron Horman investigation, it is their policy not to release files where they are not the lead agency of record or during an ongoing criminal investigation .
Requests for comment from Kaine Horman through his attorney Brett Engel regarding the allegations that he has either purchased or sold illegal steroids have not been returned at the time of this publication.
However, in an article published to include a quote from Kaine Horman it seems that Kaine confirms Ms. Spicher’s assertion that Terri Horman did not use illegal steroids, but rather nutritional supplements and had moved past those very quickly after her bodybuilding competition.
“…Kaine said he noticed a sharp shift in her behavior, saying she became self-centered and short-tempered.
“She’s not eating a lot of food, she’s exercising twice a day, she’s up at 4 o’clock in the morning, she’s not sleeping at night so we get just general irritable behavior towards everyone around her,” he said.
He said she consumed over-the-counter stimulants, such as fat burners, in high doses. In four months between January and April, she shed 62 pounds, dropping from 185 to 123 pounds, he said.
At the end of April, with her muscles bulked up and skin glistening with a bronze tan, she competed in the Emerald Cup bodybuilding competition in Bellevue, Wash…”
S.Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief, www.blinkoncrime.com was able to independently confirm Ms. Spicher’s account of alleged steroid use and ensuing investigation of a gym member as told to her by Terri Horman.
The source, an associate of Terri Horman, DeDe Spicher and Kaine Horman who declined to be identified, went on to say that at the time it was “… really common knowledge who was using steroids and who was selling them…” “… was not aware previously that Terri Horman claimed to have instigated contact with law enforcement to turn in the seller…” The source declined to identify the seller and could not say for certain if he was charged and likely would not away- given the request not to disclose the source’s name on the record.
Reached for comment, Terri Moulton Horman Attorney Stephen Houze declined to comment based on his policy of not speaking publicly when a client has pending legal matters.
A request for comment to Mr. Bunch, Terri Horman’s divorce attorney has not been returned by the time of this publication.
More Questions Than Answers..
Following several hours of interviews with DeDe Spicher, the woman who was not a close friend to Terri Horman but ultimately was the closest to her in the early days of the investigation- are we left with more questions than answers about what could have happened to the little boy whose 11th birthday was 2 days ago?
Spicher concedes that anything she discussed as told to her by Terri Horman in some minor instances may only be verifiable by Horman herself- and she is not talking… Yet.
She also points out that ultimately everything she told me she shared with investigators as far as “truthfulness” was confirmed by a polygraph – to include the question “Was she withholding any information from investigators?”
She was not.
Although limited, Spicher’s accounts in many instances confirm sparse information heard early on from Terri herself. Not the least of which was that although widely criticized for not speaking out publicly, she was told by investigators not to under any circumstances- and when she broached the possibility of retaining counsel was told that she would then be cut off from any information as to the investigation process to find Kyron Horman.
Through Spicher, Horman also confirmed that out of concern for Horman’s “spacieness” which she defined by walking into a room and staring off, not remembering, etc, Terri Horman called his pediatrition Thursday June 3rd and made an appointment for Friday June 11th. His last day of school. Horman also told Spicher that Kyron had wondered off or got lost while in his teacher Ms. Porter’s care once before when following a fellow student out of class.
Initially, prior to learning Kyron had been marked absent not very long after she left the building, that was Horman’s first thought. Those hopes grew into panic with that revelation that he had been missing for hours.
Spicher says Terri was adamant that she never had a sexual relationship with the now infamous landscaper Rudy Sanchez Estrada Spicher agrees that her friend had the propensity to be flirtatious but she never knew her to be sexually promiscuous. Outside of the fact that she says at Kaine’s request to occasionally include an additional female in the bedroom, to which Spicher declined, she was not aware that the Horman’s had a swinger lifestyle.
To her knowledge, there were other women that were asked to participate in a threesome with the couple that did not say no some years ago, but had no current knowledge and she herself was never involved with Horman sexually.
In her take, the addition of a 3rd female was an expression of control on Kaine’s part in the relationship.
Terri explained the landscapers “sexual accosting” , previously reported exclusively by www.blinkoncrime this way:
“… She said she had Kitty on her hip and he came up behind her and was kissing her neck and put his arm around her and when she verbally resisted with concern that Kitty was in her arms he sort of grabbed her and she spun around and broke free…”
Spicher adds that on more than one occasion she tried to bring that up during meetings with DA Norm Frink and investigators. One one occasion, as suggested by her Father, a former Klamath County Marine Officer, at their own expense The Klamath County Sheriff and his first lieutenant had agreed to meet with Frink, Spicher and her father on DeDe’s behalf to sort of provide character backgrounds and family history he felt would be helpful in clearing her.
“… This came up in the first interview I had with Mr Frink and I told him she had made that call. Later in the interview when he was trying to push more of my buttons, he tells me that call never happened (implying Terri had lied to me). I told him okay, that’s what you’re telling me, but I recall it differently (implying he was lying to me right then). He got very angry about that and insisted it was “fact”. I said okay, whatever. Much later, like one of the last times I met with Mr Frink, the Klamath County Sheriff and his 1st Lieutenant flew up on their own dime to meet with Mr Frink & Keith Krafve to see if they could help by offering their opinion of my character, and that it didn’t seem unusual to them at all that I would go help Terri, that it is very consistent with how my family has always been. At that meeting, I retold the story of Rudy sexually accosting Terri (her words), but said I wasn’t sure about the 911 call. That totally infuriated Mr Frink. I told him I was trying to believe him and simply not certain about what I could remember on that point.
The DAs office behaved very strangely toward the Klamath Co Sheriff and his Lt. They tried everything they could to keep us separated and even insisted that they (the DAs office) drive them back to the airport, despite the fine fact that we (Dad & I) had picked them up and brought them in, and would definitely be seeing them again in the near future. It was just weird, to all of us…”
I asked DeDe if she used the term called 911 in every exchange. She had. I asked her if she got the impression that the reason Frink was so sure it never happened was because there was no 911 call on the record about it – could it be that maybe she reached out to that former law enforcement person she contacted on the steroid issue and it was actually a dispatch call versus a trackable 911 call issue.
Spicher says she got the impression that Frink was suggesting that the “accosting” as described by her friend did not happen, but could not be sure except to say that Frink seemed to become irate when she brought it up on every occasion. Spicher felt Sanchez Estrada was the only person behaving like a criminal and that supported the accounts she was given.
I asked DeDe if Terri mentioned ever paying Sanchez Estrada for work at the Horman home. She said she did not recall Terri ever saying anything other than she had no idea what he was talking about when he came to the door and asked for $10,000 so she slammed the door in his face and called 911.
Stoy: So did she think it was some sort of extortion attempt now that she had mentioned him to investigators and they told her that they had interviewed him?
Spicher: She thought that he was dangerous from her past experience.
Stoy: Did you think it was odd that with a brand new John Deere tractor parked outside that TH was hiring a landscaper? I was able to confirm through other sources that he cleared some blackberry or blueberry bushes similar to Ms. Von Klevelen, and the tractor does not have a UCC lien on it, meaning it was not financed.
Spicher: No, it wasn’t. Kaine bought it. It was Terri’s job to manage the inside of the house as well as the entire property. I knew that when Kaine would travel he would come up with this project lists for her to complete by the time he got home. I mean, like cleaning the gutters, cutting the grass, washing all the windows, that sort of thing. To the best of my recollection Terri and Kaine did not have bank accounts together- he controlled everything he made.
Stoy: With a baby, 7 year old and teenager and hubby out of town? How was she managing that? No wonder he was suggesting that she was pouring through money like water or something like that, she was probably hiring help. I am not even sure I think a woman by herself at that property with a baby should be on the roof by herself anyway.
Spicher: No, Terri had to pay any support money or whatever to the household expenses and I have surmised Kaine gave her some sort of allowance which she probably blew through pretty quickly on frivolous things like food and clothes for her children. I have never known Terri to be frivolous with money. I know of at least two times when the projects she was supposed to accomplish were impossible for her to manage. One was the windows so I believe she hired someone that time and as I recall her parents paid for that. I believe the other was the landscaper.
Stoy: Is it a fair question for me to ask how you feel about Kaine, from your tone I am sensing you are not a fan.
Spicher: I have tremendous compassion for Kaine- he lost his child- what can one even say about that? But no, he is not someone I would want to be friends with today and I was cordial to him whenever I was around him but he was very controlling and was pretty mean to Terri about her weight from Kitty, things like that- I am not going to have anything in common with that.
Stoy: Did Terri ever mention anything about conflicts with Desiree Young, whether they were between her and she or Kaine and Desiree?
Spicher: Not that I recall, but I also never heard her speak of Desiree negatively at any time previously or when I stayed with her [Terri].
Stoy: That is saying a lot because right after the sting Ms. Young was pretty accusatory pretty quickly- and I do note that was based on information from law enforcement. Similar to some of the things both she and Kaine said publicly about you. Are you angry about that?
Spicher: O my no. That poor woman is going through hell and acted on information that I was told, lie or not, was given to her and Kaine. I have nothing but compassion for her and I wish I could shoulder some of her pain because I can.. I have nothing but compassion for all of Kyron’s parents and any anger I have over how I was treated, what I went through would never be directed at them. I really pray that Kyron will be found, I choose to put my energy into hope for that.
Pending Matters
Through Attorney Bunch, Terri Horman makes the claim that both law enforcement and Kaine Horman have been perpetrating the dissemination of inaccurate information involving the circumstances of Kyron Horman’s disappearance.
In a recent filing, set for hearing this Friday, Bunch pens a scathing reply to Deputy O’Donnell’s motion to quash, and accuses the county of improper ex parte communication.
Early this afternoon, a source within the Multnomah County Courthouse speaking on the condition of anonymity has confirmed that on behalf of Multnomah County, a motion has been filed to limit certain documents or discoverable information related to Mr. Horman and Bobby O’Donnell of the MCSO.
A hearing is scheduled before Judge Kantor for this Friday September 13, 2013
Jacqueline Beaufort, Ellie Sanders – research and contributing editors to this article.
Jason Mateos- contributing editor, copy.
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My Xmas wish for babyk is her very own Mommy.
I was hoping and praying that Terri and Baby K would be spending this Christmas Eve together. I’m very sad for both of them, especially tonight.
it is not particularly comforting to realize that Portland Police Chief has no more class than Multnomah County Sheriff.
https://twitter.com/chiefreese/status/415639539672043521/photo/1
M Harris says:
December 23, 2013 at 9:33 am
@Venetia says:
RE: December 22, 2013 at 8:39 pmIIRC, KH sd something to the effect of he wanted the Wall of Hope moved to the gym location so that ‘he’ had to look at it everyday as he went to work- meaning the SZ (but of course he didn’t say SZ.) Anyone recall that comment?
****************
I remember!
~~~~~~ and~~~~~
Venetia says:
December 23, 2013 at 1:19 pm
Thanks, M Harris ! I’m so glad that you remember that too – I was beginning to doubt my memory. I can’t find the video with KH making that statement. Likely his team thought it a bad idea in terms of the overall plan and had it ‘poofed.’ To admit that there was/is a ‘he’ while TH was/is getting all the media attention would make it seem as though there IS a SZ and they know who it is and even the route he takes driving to work. Possible game changer.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
me:
The reporting on this case has been maddening.
So many times I KNOW I remember reading about some specific detail or comment from one of the key players – and when I go back to find the link – entire stories have been poofed.
Sometimes the story/article may be from awhile back – but just as often it’s something that was published just days/weeks previous.
Something I’m not used to at all in my local media, or other cases I’ve followed from other parts of the country.
Very odd IMO.
Seems to happen frequently – don’t know if this is SOP for the Portland press, or if case specific to stories Kyron linked?
Merry Christmas to All and to Kyron wherever you are.
Merry Christmas all
I remember that first Christmas in 2010
I was so sure Kyron was going come home that day
Read the WW profile. Pro civil union is not pro-marriage. Next election same-sex unions will have the legal rights legal marriages, I hope. Without Kelly.
Portland is a democratic “cesspool”? Whoa….some that live here might take offence at East Coast knowing this city as we do, idiots and/or heroes…we’re not waiting for a Kennedy to save us…LOL…it was the DA’s office refused discovery and covered up Gore’s little sexual mishap, and buried the accuser/victim…Kennedy-esque.
My question about next week involves this statement:
@TRuth. Iirc Kantor stuck temp custody in with the Jan 2-3 Dissolution (divorce/finance).
Iirc Bunch asked it be after that piece, so JK will probably put it before & eat up the time.
I’ll look again but saw nothing about custody merging with the divorce/finance/dissolution at Olive.
@Seeker says:
December 24, 2013 at 7:20 pm
I was hoping and praying that Terri and Baby K would be spending this Christmas Eve together. I’m very sad for both of them, especially tonight.
*****
Same here, seeker. It’s so sad. When you look at those pics of TMH and Bunch and the legal assistant after the meeting before last. So happy, all of them. …… then that alleged MFH raised it’s ugly head again.
That sequence…release to public on a Friday night with no docs to back it up…then slowly leak to inflame…
then enough to make it SEEM like Rudy was the victim and Engel’s was playing straight…
IMO if they take it appellate it will be within this next week. They won’t wait till June.
Blink…can they take the Custody appellate now, or must they take both the dissolution and the custody?
vw- I can’t really answer that intelligently until I see the orders from the last hearing and if there was any generated from the postponement request. My feeling is that Kantor sought some mentoring after that “half witness” ( resisting the urge to use half-wit, lol) and does not want any interlocutory measures on record with his first foray in family court.
The dissolution and custody issues are bifurcated so the asset and support (non-child) will be decided next week and then I suspect we will see an admissibility hearing request followed by a renewed temporary custody hearing.
It would not shock me to see something more aggressive like a recusal motion- but honestly at this point with a case that looks richer on appeal than the instant matter based on the record here, I don’t know that makes sense and Bunch still has to work in that system if you will. I would be very interested in that kind of positional dialogue between HouzeofBunch as most family counsel does not co-chair with criminal defense counsel. I think these 2 have put their advocacy in front of anything else thus far- I have not seen anything like it before personally.
Nor have I seen a family court Judge take such global latitude without deference to the actual law he is tasked with upholding.
B
@Blink. A little real estate investment
money goes a long way to stoking ego.
Nothing like a safety net.
Not sure I understand the reference in context, Rose.
It’s the day after and all, lol
B
The good Judge’s online financial disclosure statement, url published
here previously. and his business partnerships.
Having received money from my parents on several occasions, and having loaned my adult children money on several occasions, I find it hard to understand why Terri’s parents didn’t write up a contract with respect to paying it back with no or low interest. I do understand, of course, that they love her – that’s not in question. My family loved each other too. We sometimes forgave a payment instead of a big birthday gift, or something similar, but we all did try our best to pay it back.
There are 2 reasons I’m thinking about this. One is that it speaks to responsibillities we all have to each other, even if family members. A gift is a gift, a loan is a loan.
The second reason is the effect a gift vs a loan has on the division of assets in the divorce. As a gift, the $250,000 looks like a big asset. An inheritance is not considered joint property (whether cash or other items) in an Oregon divorce (at least in my experience), but I’m not sure a gift of cash is treated the same way. A loan, on the other hand is a debt.
Just wondering.
Bringing the focus back to Kyron: This is an excerpt from an interview of KH in August 2011 in which he says LE has looked at “many different angles” in this case, including TH, and haven’t been able to rule her out. Imo, this shows that LE has not exclusively focused on TH; they have explored other avenues as well. I would expect no less in a missing child investigation. It could be that the man at the school who allegedly asked Kyron to help him is one of the different “angles” of the investigation. Perhaps he was ruled out, perhaps he is still on the radar. We just don’t know. I do find it notable that LE, after 14 months of investigating this case, was not able to rule TH out.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/128538693.html?mobile=y
I agree with everything you said Grace- except if “ruling out” is the standard, I can promise you there are no less than 20 folks that fit that criteria.
It becomes a subjective criteria that is not objective- to include folks that may or may not have included a subject that passed a polygraph. That in itself does NOT exclude a POI in current LE best practice.
B
When you have a known targeted subject
I suspect that the landscapers testimony about the sting is quite relevant to his credibility.
Well-educated Mexicans are happily living in Mexico. The overwhelming majority of Mexicans who cross the border are poor and uneducated (think of the horrible language skills possessed by many poor Americans). I have known several well-educated South Americans who have great difficulty understanding Mexican immigrants. Obviously, LE did not simply tell this man “Go knock on the door and get her to confess”. He would have been coached and given specific phrases and keywords to use, and specific questions to ask. LE “coaching” for the sting could easily have influenced his testimony, especially word choice and phrasing about the earlier encounter.
I suspect the outcome of the child custody portion has already been decided; not because of corruption, but simply because there is not much evidence that TMH represents a risk to her child. TMH will most likely get supervised visitation.
What I suspect is really going on in court is:
1) KH wants to keep full custody, and keep all the money.
2) Houze and company want to extract as much information form LE as possible about any evidence against TMH.
3) LE wants to look like that are still working the case.
I fear this case will drag on for years, if not decades, and Kyron may never be found and no-one prosecuted. Once the divorce and child custody issues are resolved (I’m guessing 2015), this case will fade from prominence due to lack of media coverage. However, TMH will still be sitting with the Sword of Damocles hanging over her head. Not until her lawyers are made aware of any evidence LE has against her, and find evidence to refute that, will it ever be safe for her to speak in public.
The person with the hard job is Dr Vinh.
Can you see him having to work in therapy on
Kaine telling babyk a reasonable explanation that
does not impugn the mother/child bonding of why
mother has been gone much of her life, that it wasn’t mothers choice.
Kaine really has to take responsibility for the explanations
to babyk & needs guidance & monitoring to do so. without
destroying trust in either parent. He will also have to explain why
Mommy’s not coming home now that she’s found but she lives
with grandparents.
About as enjoyable for Dr Vinh as Houzes/Bunch having to deal with
the caliber of Rackgel & JKantor. Every Hearing a crap shoot imo wrt
law& facts, & disrespectful language imo guaranteed.
anyway Grasshopper, after viewing Reese’ portrayal of what looks like a Portland cesspool, a tweet
suck ups were sure to respond to positively, I congratulate Hillsboro for their Police Chief hire, imo the
best of the 4 finalists.
thinking of Kaine’s gf whom Blink declined to reveal, and thinking of Goldschmidt & Adams & Cogen and doubtless so many more, and the cop meth, and so on, I’d say there’s a government clean up role in Portland for a NY Post or NY Daily News, staking out the right homes at 3:45 am & pictorally forcing hands, a la Spitzer.
Maybe someone could make some money with an truthtelling
exposé paper like “Pitkin’s Portland Post.” He should copyright his name….
@vw. It didn’t merge. It can’t.
@vw. I call it an apparent cesspool since the 1940s anyway due to various well-documented sleezy inhabitants of Sheriff’s job, mayor’s job, County Commissioner jobs (incl chair), Union positions & so on. Other cities like NY, DC,
Chicago, Atlanta, Detroit, and so on had same, including mafia. But from time to time they got cleaned up mostly due to the 4th Estate & to US Attorneys & Federal judges. Imo Portland lacks an independent 4th Estate up to the task, and has not had US Attorneys up to it either. I am horrfied by what I’ve learned as 3 years ago I was begging my poor son to consider So OR U. I root for a money-grubbing Portland Post like NY has to out opportunists.
Panda says:
December 24, 2013 at 5:47 pm
____
Panda, yes, it’s ‘allowed’ but not comfortable which is probably why posters who aren’t on the ‘Terri is innocent’ team don’t post here often. Arguments showing Terri as victim and Houze and Bunch as heroes are strongly supported with little patience for anything to the contrary. All other players, with the exception of only Dede, are thought to be dim witted, outright wrong, or unethical.
I thought Mom 3.0′s 6 part post was very well articulated. IMO, we are all being ‘led to believe’ because not a one of us knows what LE knows. None of us know what the bios know. And surely none of us know what Terri knows. I do not see Mom’s post as so irrational to think that a well lawyered innocent person can safely talk to LE in an effort to find a missing child and fight a restraining order that the accused knows is false. It is what I would do even if 50 other people might not.
Some of what is believed here is based on what Dede says Terri said. How much of that do we know to be true? A woman who cannot even tell the truth about who is weeding her yard? Why would posters here so easily believe Terri was forced to do yard work and why is a woman doing yard work considered so awful anyway? My husband cooks sometimes and I pull weeds sometimes. So what?
Every person here is surmising based on their own perceptions. It is said that the truly wise can hold one position while still entertaining the other. The truth almost always lies somewhere in the middle.
Grasshopper says: (snipped)She can only tell if she knows. Do you not think she would have told by now if for no reason than that she would get to see Kiara? Her attorneys are not fools. If they believed her guilty they would have pled her and made a deal if she revealed his whereabouts. K, D, LE and DA all want her to tell where Kyron is instead of solving the case themselves. If she were guilty why haven’t they found evidence? Why do they expect a confession instead of a case based on investigation and proof of guilt? that is the normal way a case is made. (snipped)
No, I don’t think she would tell by now. Are you kidding? If she had something to do with a missing child she will never tell. One need only look at missing children cases to know that to be true. Haleigh Cummings as one example. It’s true Terri’s attorneys are not fools. It does not mean they believe her to be innocent so much as they believe in a suspect or defendants rights. Defending the accused is the primary goal of a defense attorney, not finding out if their client is really guilty or not.
There are countless cases where there is little to no evidence. It doesn’t indicate guilt or innocence in the real world, only in court.
I am certain LE no longer expects Terri will ever confess to anything and that may very well be their own fault, whether what she knows will point to who may have taken Kyron or to where he actually is.
T. Ruth says:
December 23, 2013 at 12:16 am
@Amys Sis:
Also, BunchofHouzes also said this:
Terri Horman’s divorce attorney also raised new allegations.
“There are a number of troubling aspects of husband’s prior conduct and parental decisions,” wrote lawyer Peter Bunch. “Husband and the police have perpetuated the dissemination of inaccurate information about the circumstances of the disappearance of Kyron Horman.”
http://www.kgw.com/home/Gloves-come-off-in-divorce-between-Kaine-Terri-Horman–221410121.html
falsehoods, yep.
Correct. Flat out allegation in open court.
B
________
Thank you T Ruth. That statement could be in relation to the public accusation that Terri was the last known person to see Kyron and doesn’t exactly say that Terri is being falsely accused.
To say LE is falsely accusing her would be a mouthful for her attorneys. I need to take the time to find the subpoena request for O’Donell Houze made. I want to see for myself if he is really saying LE is falsely accusing his client.
This is important because if Houze indeed said that Terri is being falsely accused, even before he has subpoenaed investigators or is on his way to trial, that REALLY changes things for me.
The quotes by Grasshopper are interesting but I wasn’t there so I don’t know in what context it was said and cannot fully trust it as written without corroboration.
Thanks again.
@Grace. Do you really expect Kaine to add “Of course afyer evaluating many angkes, MCSO hasn’t ruled me, Desiree, or RS-E either?
Who’s he gonna comment on except the ex he’s locked in a struggle for $, house, and babyk with?
Moreover, the wife who has plenty beans to spill.
He’s got to continue her in the public & mcso role of sole POI to ensure she stays on the
5ths yellow brick road. Because if she ever talks, I bet she’ll say
plenty to his detriment.
Rose says:
December 23, 2013 at 7:39 pm
Gee whiz Rose! Why didn’t I think of that? I was surprised by the suddenness and his “youngish” age (says the one soon to turn 53
)
grasshopper says:
December 24, 2013 at 7:59 pm
Doesn’t that just show you the high school bully attitude. And then all the responses are like the cool kids trying to ingratiate themselves. Blech.
Rose says:
December 26, 2013 at 11:27 am
The good Judge’s online financial disclosure statement, url published
here previously. and his business partnerships.
would you mid reposting said url?
Rose says:
December 26, 2013 at 1:49 pm
thinking of Kaine’s gf whom Blink declined to reveal, and thinking of Goldschmidt & Adams & Cogen and doubtless so many more, and the cop meth, and so on, I’d say there’s a government clean up role in Portland for a NY Post or NY Daily News, staking out the right homes at 3:45 am & pictorally forcing hands, a la Spitzer.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It is MO that Goldschmidt’s influence has in no way diminished in t his city and beyond. It has just gone underground. That doesn’t mean he has anything to do with Kyron’s disappearance, but all those invisible tentacles between the power brokers are alive and well. probably some part of it is suppressing truth in this case. Portland is, in the end, a very small town with small town cronyism. I’m not sure any newspaper or anybody else is in the expose business any more. a number of years ago, I think in the ’50s, the oregonian did a huge expose of corruption in portland that made a big difference. not likely today. portland and the willamette valley, including salem, is fiercely democrat. Unions, I am told, own the state legislature through lobbyists. Not saying that is a bad thing, only that when corruption within the ranks is involved, the good old boy (and girl) network is apt to ignore it
MockingbirdSings says:
December 26, 2013 at 11:45 am
Having received money from my parents on several occasions, and having loaned my adult children money on several occasions, I find it hard to understand why Terri’s parents didn’t write up a contract with respect to paying it back with no or low interest.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I believe this has come up a number of times. The way this situation has always been described is that an anonymous benefactor is PAYING FOR T’S DEFENSE. T has no control over the money, how it is used, to whom it is paid or when it is paid. It does not pass through her hands at all so is neither a loan or gift. It is not and has never been in her possession or estate. I’d think K should be glad. As his wife, her legal bills out to be paid for out of marital assets, particularly since K has participated in public accusations that make her unemployable. I realize that he doesn’t “feel comfortable” even providing spousal support, according to Engel. Wouldn’t it be interesting if divorcing couples only had to pay what they were “comfortable” with?
getting you the url, Grass, I saw this for 1st time:
http://courts.oregon.gov/OJD/docs/courts/circuit/kantor.pdf
http://cascadepolicy.org/wp-content/themes/OPtransparency/economicinterest/Henry%20Kantor-Multnomah%20County-Circuit%20Court%20Judge.pdf
See 1st response before it disappears:
http://tickerreport.com/banking-finance/29867/insider-selling-yelp-coo-sells-25000-shares-of-stock-yelp-2/
looking at that CV, it is an absolute travesty this Judge was assigned this case.
And in my opinion, only a judge of the highest self-conceit would not realize it decline.
It’s time to look to who had what to hold over McKnight to swing this assignment.
@ Grasshopper
I thought the same about the 250,000 as you. Did some one tell us that ?
I could not understand why Kaine seem to act like she was swimming in money
@MSB
In smaller amounts I think gifting family money works best for me And there have been times I was gifted
When times were bad back I just give money to family then there is no chance of hard feelings later
Large amounts they need to find some place else LOL
a mere starting point:
“She is also the lead judge for the Domestic Violence Court and shares with several other judges primary responsibility for the criminal misdemeanor and restraining order cases that involve domestic violence charges. ”
http://courts.oregon.gov/Multnomah/General_Info/Judges/McKnight/pages/Judge_McKnight_Biography.aspx
That DV Court is the one Meisinheimer retired while on. And this is Woods’ longtime DA portfolio.
—
Note McKnight’s CV – move to Portland was to work wiyh Jesuit Volunteer Corps in 70s (presumeably a longstand attachment). Also an interest of the MillerNash managing partner, who serves on its Board:
http://m.millernash.com/miller-nash-portland-attorneys-join-nonprofit-boards/
MockingbirdSings says:
December 23, 2013 at 1:09 pm
erose says:
December 22, 2013 at 10:56 pm
@Mom3.0,
I spent quite some time pondering TH’s guilt, I feel it is only fair to give equal time to her innocence. Initially, I was led to believe that TH was responsible for her stepson’s disappearance.
——————————————–
I am not really replying to either comment – it just occurred to me that one giant thing I have learned from all of this is not to be “led to believe”. I would say more, but we all know what I mean and why.
A happy, healthy, and wiser new year to all of you!
hello erose and mockingBirdsings-
thanks erose I get it with the aid of MBS thanks MBS
I am beginning to get an understanding why some may have a hard time remaining open to all possibilities -as it seems some feel they were duped into “believing” terri was guilty
This same thing happened on the WM3 case with the documentaries and in the initial verdict- many felt duped into believing and did not strive to keep an open mind to all possibilities while reviewing all evidence and case docs police handling and Blinks analysis etc
they felt wronged and in trying to right the wrong they went fully to the opposite side of the spectrum-
In this case we do not have the benefit of reviewing all evidence presented all docs etc- still just like with Kyrons case there were questions and concerns over timelines polys-and police handling
I will and have argued both sides of the issue in both cases based on all of these factors and the fact that I am open to all possibilities
I myself have not formed an opinion as to guilt or innocence-
It seems some having staunchly believed Terri was guilty in the past may now feel bad for thinking that way and now perhaps make it their cause to right the wrong… by staunchly supporting terri’s innocence now, some go so far as to support her in every decision she has made in this case
Anyway
because I did not form a set opinion as to guilt or innocence i do not feel i was duped into being led to believe anything … i dont feel the need to support terris or kaines or Desirees or LEs every decision nor do i feel i need to criticize each in turn..
yet i can discuss/debate all openmindedly
My knowing that i dont know and never claimed to know “the truth” it allows me to not feel bad for speaking to both sides of any argument-
for me all possibilities are still on the table in this case as there have been no arrests no charges- no body no recovery no criminal case no divorce or custody decree no gj indictment and no dissolution of GJ either.
In short I was never duped I never believed one possibility over any other
therefore for me the possibility that Ky wandered off- was stung by a bee- sz took him…. LE neglagence or any other of the myriad of different scenarios that have been brought up for discussion thru the years are still viable.
I dont know what happened and never claimed to know all may be innocent or not
my sympathies have always remained equally with all parents
which makes it hard to argue a point w/me as if I am a terri hater closeminded bot – because I am not- so I cant be put into an easily closed “box” and then dismissed.
Heres seconding MBS wish of A happy, healthy, and wiser new year to all of you!
*negligence
lots of business litigators on Jesuit Vol Corps Board.
JKantor would feel right at home among them in my opinion.
https://touch.www.linkedin.com/?sessionid=659061267759104&as=false&rs=false#public-profile/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fpub%2Fdavid-thompson%2F4%2F488%2Fab9
jewish vol corps’ (aka an Americorps location I think) service activities include work at PPS el eds.
Blurb re 1 at King here:
http://jvcnorthwest.org/blog/
Weren’t there 1 or more Americorp vols at Skyline?
—-
I’m wondering if Rees has/had a connection to the jvc or the hi school?
@Blink…downtown to return stuff (yes. boots!) and re-sched. a lead-boot ticket. Empty file room. Not much new, but Kantor’s “adjustments” to Order to Postpone, and an interesting Resopnse to Emergency Hearing Re: Discovery and CounterClaim for Attorney’s Fees by Engels. I’m looking for it to have been linked by Max or Kyle. If not, i’ll copy it. There appears to be several “references” (i.e. potential inflamatory “leaks”) to his depo of the Moultons and I don’t remember anyone talking much about it.
@GH….do you know what I’m referring to? I.E….TMH is “set up” for life with parents not expecting anything $$$ from her, so that $$$, in Engels-speak, is an Asset?
https://touch.www.linkedin.com/?sessionid=6024067148677120&as=false&rs=false#public-profile/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fpub%2Fkeith-meisenheimer%2F26%2Faaa%2F529
meisenheimer & Kantor: same law school, same era
What I don’t know is as I have understood Kaine is in debt he said some thing to the that effect about paying
Lawyers the rest of his life True? Will that be considered when they divide assets. Any one know this stuff
@
grasshopper says:
December 24, 2013 at 7:59 pm
it is not particularly comforting to realize that Portland Police Chief has no more class than Multnomah County Sheriff.
https://twitter.com/chiefreese/status/415639539672043521/photo/1
None of them in PPD or MCSO have the “class” to move beyond their Neanderthal GED, etc. “class”.
Doesn’t mean that they are corrupt. Just that they can’t get beyond their ignorance. And are encouraged to abuse the system…and victims in it.
For the most part.
I think it is, IMO, the Underhills and Doctorates (DA’s, etc.) that are the ones really behind this mess.
wondering if Frink retired after Kantor’s assignment, and his ties if any to jvc, I stumbled on this:
http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20131211/NEWS03/712119871
Are you anywhere near Watertown NelMel, because Reese & Frink have a Sheriff endorsement for you. .
–
Frink is a man who enjoys parry & thrust, imo. I say that due to a book review he posted on London Review of Books,
where he took a position & argued it, and a Task Force he served on for ABA re access to 3rd party evidence, where he argued a dissent note. His law school was a major cut above Meis/Kantor’s imo.
mcknight’s probable husband (per veromi) runs the bankruptcy legal clinic @ L&C.
right up the Kantor & MillerNash alley in terms of
placements/cases needed for students
http://law.lclark.edu/live/files/9452-richard-slottee-cv
Gosh, who knows what clout was wielded, by whom?
But for HK to be assigned this case,
someone had formal or informal
power with McKnight, imo.
@vw. we need a timeline of retirements, to include
Randy Leonard, Frink, Schrunk, Mesienheimer,
and other persons with involvement or clout. Isn’t it
amazing the PPS Supt is still there? (Did you read
the paper re the 79 pps staffer’s junket?)
@3.0 wrt “…I never believed one possibility over any other
therefore for me the possibility that Ky wandered off- was stung by a bee- sz took him…. LE neglagence or any other of the myriad of different scenarios that have been brought up for discussion thru the years are still viable.”
“sz took him” is not an alternative “scenario.”
witnesses exist.
GraceintheHills says:
December 26, 2013 at 1:17 pm
Bringing the focus back to Kyron: This is an excerpt from an interview of KH in August 2011 in which he says LE has looked at “many different angles” in this case, including TH, and haven’t been able to rule her out. Imo, this shows that LE has not exclusively focused on TH; they have explored other avenues as well. I would expect no less in a missing child investigation. It could be that the man at the school who allegedly asked Kyron to help him is one of the different “angles” of the investigation. Perhaps he was ruled out, perhaps he is still on the radar. We just don’t know. I do find it notable that LE, after 14 months of investigating this case, was not able to rule TH out.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/128538693.html?mobile=y
~~~~~~~~
I agree with everything you said Grace- except if “ruling out” is the standard, I can promise you there are no less than 20 folks that fit that criteria.
It becomes a subjective criteria that is not objective- to include folks that may or may not have included a subject that passed a polygraph. That in itself does NOT exclude a POI in current LE best practice.
B
When you have a known targeted subject
~~~~~~~~
@Blink, it may be that it is almost 1:20AM here and I am tired, but I don’t understand what you mean by “if ruling out is the standard.” The standard for what? Twenty folks fit what criteria? Are you speaking of POIs that LE has been unable to rule out?
And what is *it* that becomes subjective criteria that is not objective? Can you rephrase your last paragraph? I don’t want to misunderstand what you are saying.
Yes, of course, a polygraph does not always rule out a suspect even when they show no evidence of deception. When you say “that in itself” what are your referring to?
Irt LE best practice in investigations (i assume you are referring to criminal investigations) : What methods are considered best practice?
Your last line about a known targeted subject?
Sorry for all the questions.
My guess is TH’s parents had a family trust (usually for tax shelter), or even a trust in her name which is not legally her property, and KH would have no claim.
What Constitutes Separate Property
Both ED and community property courts can only divide marital property. Separate property consists of all property which a party owned prior to date of marriage, property earned after date of separation — or another date specified by state law — and property acquired by either party through gift or inheritance during the marriage. A trust fund itself is not actually the property of the beneficiary to begin with, as legal title rests in the trustee. Only equitable title, or the right to enjoy the trusts’s benefits, lies in the beneficiary. Unless the beneficiary set up the trust herself using marital property, the other side will have no claim to it.
Read more: http://www.ehow.com/info_7944406_can-rights-trust-fund-divorce.html#ixzz2of0nsD7f
Mom3.0, I am not saying duped, which means easily deceived. I am saying highly orchestrated and intentionally misled, which is not so easy. This was done over time by several entities. FTR, I am also not convinced of TH’s guilt or innocence, I just do not want the rights of a potentially innocent person violated. If people want to allege her guilt (and I do not mean you personally) that is reasonable, but we should have the trial before the conviction. That’s what I’m saying. Peace & HNY.
grasshopper says:
December 23, 2013 at 5:03 pm
@Mom3.0
It is astounding to me that you believe your approach would be more successful than one developed by an extremely experienced and skillful criminal defense attorney such as Stephen Houze.
hello grasshopper
I am puzzled as to why you would claim that this is “my approach” as I have took the time and the effort to go back and supply all with Blinks previous postings so it seems you are questioning Blinks previous thoughts as to the best approach.
Second I was speaking to the RO /NCO the custody & civil case NOT the criminal case -
He is a criminal attorney as you so rightly pointed out
so any argument that perhaps his approach is not the best in this regard is sound- IMO
Who knows if it was the best advice for an innocent mother not to contest the Ro and to withdraw her bid for custody and visitation vs invoking the 5th ?
he may be best suited to protecting her right to not self incriminate in a criminal case but his advice may not be best in these other matters
You wrote:
He knows the law and how the court system works better than you do.
I never claimed to know the law or the court system better than Houze or Blink or anyone-
Again just because he gave his advice- does not mean that it is the BEST advise in this case- Blinks earlier thoughts could have been spot on just as many others have sited different cases with different advice leading to different outcomes -
NO ONE knows if Houzes advice is successful or not- not yet
it seems it hasnt been successful in finding Kyron in helping LE to eliminate teri from any equation… or to helping squash any of the fears of Desiree and kaine…it hasnt yet been successful in aiding terri to regain custody or to aiding in her ability to squash the NCO- but that may now be changing… still it hasnt aided in getting terri and child reunited up to this point….
the only success one could claim, is Terri has not been charged arrested tried and convicted –
and in truth if innocent can we say this is undoubtedly due to houzes representation? Probably -but it could be that she was never going to be arrested seeing as how so little evidence is being discussed- seeing how the MFHP never reached the statute…seeing as how the GJ has been going on for years and years….? Still does this success have to mean she wasnt guilty? IDK
You wrote;
Blink too has tried many times to explain why T’s attorney have handled things as they have.
Blink has given her thoughts and her opinions they have changed- and i have weighed any and all with great respect- and in doing so i still realize that she does not work for Houze she is not privy to the whys and whatfors as terri is not her client-
it may be that Houze is doing all of these things for all of the reasons Blink now states – but it could also be because it is the only way to best protect his client- that does not have to = she is innocent of all does it?
You wrote:
T is undoubtedly under orders to shut up or they will no longer represent her.
- I agree this could be a possibility – still if it is the truth why would Houze ask her to shut up on all fronts?- Many lawyers either speak themselves or have their clients speak out to the media and to divorce and custody issues they do not advise them to not contest an RO – they do not advise them to withdraw their bids for custody and visitation for years- they as Blink once said (pp)- go on the circuit–
You asked:
Would you really throw away the only professional help you have because you believed you knew better?
I never wish to be in terris position and God help her and the family
But to your question,
Terri hired Houze HE represents her- I can honestly say if I were innocent and if my lawyer asked me to “shutup” when my child was missing and when the issue of losing the rights to custody and visitation with my baby girl were at risk I wouldnt be able to do it-
but then again if i were God forbid in her situation, I wouldnt be getting batphones and sexting with anyone after my children were taken from me…
so I dont believe Houze would have had to give me the ultimatum of shutup or get another lawyer-
You wrote;
T spent hours and hours over a 3 week period talking with LE.
Yes she did-
You wrote:
LE had told all of the family not to talk to media, with which she complied.
she talked with media see above…
You wrote:
Don’t you think she told everything she could think of, remember during that time when she believed that they were sincerely trying to find Kyron.
I dont know its a possibility but Honestly & respectfully its possible she may not have
You wrote:
She was repeatedly advised by friends to get an attorney but like you she believed she could be more helpful by telling all to LE.
You dont know what she believed or why she believed it – unless you are her, you cant know
You wrote:
Once the sting happened and the RO based on LE info,
The Ro was based on Kaines fears not just to LEs thoughts- but on his fears and of terri taking baby K …
You wrote:
there could be no doubt that LE was after her. Even then it took 2 more days for her to lawyer up.
Again you dont know what she thought LE and media accounts of terris friend standing in front of terris house claimed terri was not a suspect and did not feel like a suspect i gave the link earlier- so again you cant claim to know there was “No doubt” this case is plagued with doubt as to who knew what when and why
if you go back and read Blinks articles on De De im not so sure she was clear as to the timeframe…
You wrote:
Never forget that the Skyline staff lawyered up THE DAY AFTER Kyron went missing. Why don’t you suspect any of them of being involved?
WHOA – wait GH, where have I ever claimed that anyone or any entity- was in the clear in this case?- please stop claiming I believe this or that-
You wrote:
IIRC from the beginning T was content to ask for supervised visitation in a secure location. There is no reason in the world why she should not have had this.
Actually there is a reason
she may have asked -but then she withdrew her request and sadly since she did- we do not have any MH evaluations etc to weigh if proper protections would/could have been put in place
You wrote:
Kiara would have been fully protected.
We cant know that Gh we just cant -we can hope but we cant know, as the powell case sadly taught us.
You wrote:
Not to mention that this alleged MFH plot happened months before Kyron disappeared and there is no indication at all that T in any way harmed Kiara, Kyron or Kaine during that time.
GH, if the MFHP is true, or even if it is only true that she resented Kaine a great deal- how can we claim that this is not harmful to the children? This was their father they loved him – to harbor resentment and to voice it to friends and to employees on FB etc that IS harmful to the children.
You wrote:
I simply don’t understand your continuing insistence that T MIGHT be guilty.
I am not insistent that terri might be guilty
I am insistent that the POSSIBILITY has not been ruled out – **not that I think she is or isnt** -
just that to exclude the possibility based upon our set opinions formed from limited info/access to evidence etc is asinine
You wrote: No history. No evidence. No motive. No due process.
GH we dont know any of this as fact- besides plenty of crimes against children take place with no history no evidence and no motive- as to due process she hasnt participated fully in the process via the civil/custody case- and she has not been charged arrested- – so therefore the process as it were as not truly begun if it ever would…as for the GJ that is evidence that there is a process and it seems it is working as again she hasnt been indicted arrested charged etc has she?
You wrote:
Hateful accusations by bios amplified by media.
This is your characterization and you are entitled to it- media accounts or no media accounts we dont know what they think or why I only know they are all in my prayers
You wrote: Being separated from her daughter without proper protocol of investigation on basis of hearsay.
- the father had an RO she did not contest it- she withdrew her bid to custody and visitation what was the court to do… rule in her favor anyway- based solely on the fact that she at one time wanted custody as long as it was given without aid of MH evals etc?
You wrote:They have her on surveillance video at the same time as Kyron was seen at school. No evidence of accomplice.
Yes they do have her on tape- I was not there … i dont know the timeline I dont claim to know if there is any evidence of an accomplice or not IDK
You wrote: She can only tell if she knows.
True but if she knows she doesnt have to tell any of it…
You wrote:
Do you not think she would have told by now if for no reason than that she would get to see Kiara?
No I dont because she did not contest the Ro and she withdrew her custody visitation request all which could have been addressed years ago- giving her a chance of not being away from little K for so long
You wrote:Her attorneys are not fools.
I never said they were AND I have never claimed to know that all they are doing is because of terris innocence or because of guilt- it matters not – as they are doing their job to the best of their ability- regardless as they should
You wrote:
If they believed her guilty they would have pled her and made a deal if she revealed his whereabouts.
You dont know this but you could be right in all your opinions still the possibility remains that she could be involved but never knew where Kyron was- then what as to any deal?
You wrote:
K, D, LE and DA all want her to tell where Kyron is instead of solving the case themselves.
What? how are Desiree and Kaine going to solve this case themselves?
they all may wish for her to tell all she knows but that does not mean that she knows where Ky is- even if involved does it?
You wrote:
If she were guilty why haven’t they found evidence?
Thats like saying if Kys alive or if deceased why havent they found evidence of this? or if Ky was taken from the school by SZ why is it that we cant find him?
There is evidence to the truth but we may not be able to uncover it
IDK what the truth is in this case that is why i am open to all possibilities
You wrote:
Why do they expect a confession instead of a case based on investigation and proof of guilt? that is the normal way a case is made.
Again this is your opinion- proof of guilt is a very broad issue- there is circumstantial evidence and then there is direct evidence- and even when LE has both- the perp can walk and sometimes the evidence is misinterpreted and points to an innocent person -
I think they are investigating- and without teris help like De Des help they are unable to eliminate her or unable to move forward and away… its a catch 22 for poor terri
You wrote;
The last point, the most devastating one, is that it is not possible to prove innocence.
true but she hasnt been charged nor has she been arrested.
You;
Engel repeatedly accuses BunchofHouzes of trying to use the divorce court to prove she is innocent. what a laugh. It is DA involvement that has mixed the criminal element in with the RO that has been withdrawn I remind you because they were unwilling to provide evidence to back it up.
This is your opinion- IRT the RO
still even though the RO was withdrawn a NCO with much the same stipulations has been put in its place.
You:
It is understandable why John and Jane Q Public think T is probably or possibly guilty because they have nothing but media accounts to guide them, and these are universally negative. We are thrilled when Max throws a few crumbs of objectivity. But for anybody who has been following the case closely and especially the information presented on this blog and by the very knowledgeable people on here, anyone who has seen all the missteps and inappropriate, possible unlawful actions taken by JK, DA and K’s team, it’s much more difficult to understand.
Are you serious GH? I am backing up my thoughts with Blinks earlier thoughts- again she herself said (pp) noone knows the answers in this case nothing is 100% verifiable noone can be proven right or wrong so all logical paths are sound-
I agree all your ponderings could possibly be the answers to the whys of this case- but at the same time your ponderings are not the only reasonable possible answers.
Blink wrote:
I completely agree with the impossibility of proving innocence. Does everyone realize that if TMH really doesn’t know anything, and I believe that to be true or she would have found a way out of this Hell, that it changes nothing for her.
Absolutely nothing. I wish I could impart that I am confident that as part of his retention process Houze requires a polygraph. How he represents his client will be based on that. Look at his record- the man is not going into 4 years with a client who has yet to step foot in an actual criminal court, and likely never will if she failed it. No way.
B
Blink you gave the poly info earlier…and I agree with all you have said- the possibility exists that she may be innocent and she may be stuck in this hell and if so I pray she gets out of it
thanks for the response GH- sorry it took so long to get back to you
AJMO Peace
grasshopper says:
December 26, 2013 at 8:28 pm
(snipped)
MockingbirdSings says:
December 26, 2013 at 11:45 am
Having received money from my parents on several occasions, and having loaned my adult children money on several occasions, I find it hard to understand why Terri’s parents didn’t write up a contract with respect to paying it back with no or low interest.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I believe this has come up a number of times. The way this situation has always been described is that an anonymous benefactor is PAYING FOR T’S DEFENSE. T has no control over the money, how it is used, to whom it is paid or when it is paid. It does not pass through her hands at all so is neither a loan or gift. It is not and has never been in her possession or estate. I’d think K should be glad. As his wife, her legal bills out to be paid for out of marital assets, particularly since K has participated in public accusations that make her unemployable. I realize that he doesn’t “feel comfortable” even providing spousal support, according to Engel. Wouldn’t it be interesting if divorcing couples only had to pay what they were “comfortable” with?
——————————
I’m confused. I thought we learned from parents’ depositions that the money came from them and there was no expectation of repayment.
Either way, someone will have to sort it all out. Unfortunately, no one in this case is going to feel like a “winner”, IMO.
McKnight’s Judicial Election Questionnaire, apologies to Rose if previously posted.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:DPS0HOuX0XsJ:www.osbar.org/_docs/leadership/elections/judicial/08may/mcknight.m.pdf+&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Workshop #6: Encountering Family Abductions in the Legal Setting. This workshop will offer information about family abductions, including international abductions and the Hague convention, prosecution of custodial interference, and statutory approaches to preventing and dealing with abduction cases including the new Aaron’s Law (SB 1041, Ch 841, Oregon Laws 2005). *****Dr. Edward Vien, Psychologist, Portland;…******
http://blogoliticalsean.blogspot.com/2013_04_01_archive.html