Blink On Crime Kyron Horman Investigation Exclusive: DeDe Spicher Interview Yields Allegations Of Illegal Steroid Use Terri Horman Took To Police
A Blink On Crime Exclusive: DeDe Spicher speaks for the first time about her ordeal in the Kyron Horman investigation- continued ©
S. Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief- Blink On Crime
DeDe Spicher and Terri Moulton Horman
In the first part of blinkoncrime.com’s exclusive interview with DeDe Spicher, she revealed that after over 3 years of attempting to provide Multnomah County Sheriffs Office as well as Assistant Deputy Attorney Norm Frink with the necessary information they requested to clear her from any suspicion in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Skyline second grader Kyron Horman; she has finally been cleared after passing a polygraph as part of her requirement under an immunity deal that has been sealed with the court. Unofficially cleared, that is.
Spicher and her attorney Chad Stavley, who have since refused all local media requests, would very much like the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office and current District Attorney Rod Underhill to clear her officially and publicly.
Spicher is adamant that law enforcement never had any reason to question her statements to them from the beginning, has cooperated fully for over three years and recently testified before the grand jury to prove she had nothing to hide. While she would like the public to know that any assertions to the contrary are untrue, and sometimes have been offered maliciously, her desire to speak out about her experience over the last three years is primarily to force investigative resources to review it’s progress- and hopefully adjust in a way to further leads in Kyron’s case.
As was proven not only by her recent polygraph, but also by the verification that no evidence ever existed to support investigator’s theory in the first place, Spicher had no information about anyone’s potential involvement in Kyron’s disappearance, let alone her own.
The continuation of our interview, which provoked some very interesting revelations long felt to be a possibility by many, was confirmed by Ms. Spicher as she says- told to her by Terri Moulton Horman are prompting new possible theories in the circumstances surrounding the disappearance of Kyron Horman. Two days after Kyron Horman’s eleventh birthday.
Stoy: So, in your estimation then, why do you think that detectives Herron and Kravfe were so sure that you were involved or knew who was.
Spicher: I have thought about this a lot, and I think there were a few reasons. I think because I was advised through a meeting Terri had with a family friend and attorney that she should assume that all of her communication was being monitored by law enforcement and anyone she had contact with. He told her to assume the house was bugged as well as vehicles, etc. I also believe you did an article a while back that pointed out her phone was in Kaine’s name. As this was a day or two after she was served with the restraining order, she was also told that
Stoy (interrupting): You bought a prepaid phone after June 28th and never had one before that? I had read that you or someone else purchased them the day of or the day after Kyron’s disappearance.
Spicher: No. I purchased one prepaid phone, after Terri shared the info from her meeting, in my own name, either June 29th or 30th. I think they were hung up on the fact that I came to her aid with no contact for so long so they just were convinced there had to be.
Stoy: ok, sorry, continue. So you are not saying that LE was suggesting that you were hiding some other number you had and that was how they were alleging that you HAD to have been in contact with Terri or some other person prior to and on June 4th and that escalated your “poi” status in your opinion?
Spicher: They did not say that to me specifically, but what they repeated over and over again, was that Terri and I had to have had some form of communication we were hiding. It never made any sense to me because I knew I only had my cell that I had forever until the end of June, and I knew I had not been in contact with Terri since her 40th birthday party in March. So I would ask- well then I guess that means that you don’t have any contacts you can’t verify from either of us so why am I even in this “interview”?
To my recollection they never shared with me or answered any of my questions in response when something they kept hounding me about seemed absurd and conflicting with their theory.
Stoy: Which was?
Spicher: At first, I think that they really believed I was involved, and at some point I think they were talking more “accessory after the fact” because I got the impression ( although they did not share it with me) that Terri’s cell phone activity that day was nowhere near where I was, and my vehicle never left, nor did I. They would not verify that they located the ceramics/glassware artist [pottery artisan] I told you about and still have not.
Stoy: So in your opinion, you were clearly the linchpin of this case, they [LE] believed you held the key to solving it and/or implicating Terri exclusively at that point, they no longer entertained your involvement per se?
Spicher: I honestly don’t think I could say that I ever believed that they stopped treating me as some sort of suspect. I never felt that way, but yes, absolutely they 100% believe that Terri is responsible and I definitely believed we all had to be interviewed and scrutinized or whatever, but I really thought up until the meeting with Norm Frink that they [LE] would abandon that theory quickly because if they were positive I was the key, and I knew I was not, that would also eliminate Terri, who I did not and do not believe, but have no proof, was involved or knew anything.
Stoy: Right, so if you had nothing, and they felt you were the only nexus, it had to mean that they had no independent evidence of anything or anyone else so they would start in another direction?
Spicher: Right, but every interaction I had with them following and including the request to participate in the sting against her, made me believe they never did. To get back to the why question you asked me- my final thought on that is that they kept pointing out that I was the person to tell everyone not to speak to them without attorneys in the beginning. I would ask like who do you mean, because that would have been my opinion across the board for any situation, but it was definitely based on what was getting out about how they were going about this. I was scared and it turned out it was good reason. I also would point out to them that I did not think that was or should be the basis for suspicion because if it was, it seemed to me that I was told that several staff members at Skyline had hired counsel, and Kaine was the FIRST to have one between he and Terri and I had told her at least a week or so before that she should.
Stoy: Why do you think she did not immediately take your friendly advice? Your Dad was LE, and I presume she knew that. People can say what they want, but I know many members of law enforcement in different jurisdictions and agencies. I have worked with them or contributed analysis to cases with them privately [I cannot and would not ever include that in anything I choose to write on] and I can tell you that I do not know one of them that if they were the focus of a criminal probe or internal investigation they absolutely do not agree to an interview without a representative. In fact, Herron is or was the President of Mulnomah County Police Union or was, if I recall correctly. So to that end, I find that a pretty hypocritical reason for suspicion of anyone.
Spicher: (laughs) Interesting. I am not sure that I knew that. The reason Terri didn’t get an atty before the RO was because she was told by LE that if she did, she wouldn’t be privvy to any of their investigative discoveries, she would be out of the loop in finding Kyron.
Stoy: Have you had a desire or opportunity to review any sort of past events regarding the MCSO, I guess I should add, that involve anyone in this case or investigation you have had contact with?
Spicher: No, do you mean like any other detectives or that sort of thing?
Stoy: Have you ever met with or been interviewed with any other agencies or detectives?
Spicher: I believe I either met or just said hello to the guy you mentioned in that recent article of yours while he was at the house. Both Kaine and Terri were there at the time as well.
Stoy: Bobby O’Donnell?
Spicher: That’s it, yes, him. Why did you ask me if I am aware of any sort of events- should I be?
Stoy: Well, I think that tangentially if I were you I would be considering just about everything as it related to what you have been through, and I am aware of some what I will refer to as “stuff” but what I don’t want to do prior to the completion of our interview process is temper any of your responses with anything I know peripherally if that’s ok with you. If you wish, once I publish the continuation which will have that sort of information, I would invite you to comment on it for the record if you choose- are you ok with that?
Spicher: yes, that’s fine and probably a good idea.
Stoy: back briefly to the “sting request against Terri- On that issue- the request they extended to you outside the presence of your attorney and that they asked you not to tell Chad, as you think back , considering you have had no communication with Horman for over three years did you believe they thought it would work? What did your attorney say when you told him?
Spicher: I can’t and won’t address any conversations I have had with my attorney, but to answer your question as to my opinion, I really don’t know for sure, I knew that I did not, and thought it was really, really odd- that was my first reaction. After more thought, and other conversations, I don’t see how they thought it would work, or why they were still seemingly convinced after I had just passed the poly, etc, Terri was still their suspect and responsible. What is your opinion on it?
Stoy: I think I may reserve my thoughts on that for my piece. Again, not wanting to temper your opinions as we move along here and I think that could happen if I did. Is that ok with you?
Spicher: Sure, thank you.
Stoy: I would like to move on to another subject for discussion. I would just like to confirm for the record that I have never prior to this interview, asked you any questions about your potential knowledge of steroid use by yourself, or by Terri or Kaine Horman. Is that correct?
Spicher: Correct, ok.
Stoy: Did they ask you this?
Spicher: Who is they? You got a lot of pronouns flying around (laughs).
Stoy: Fair point, you’re right. The good news is, as English, or should I say proper English is my second language (laughs) I use an copy editor. Allow me to rephrase please. Did anyone in law enforcement at any time ask you about steroids or other illegal injectable supplements sometimes used in weight training or body building in your interviews in this case?
Spicher: Your question was did they [le] ask me anything about steroids or anything injectable ever?
Stoy: (laughs) now who’s throwing around the pronouns?
Spicher: (laughs) touche’ . I was asked about it very vaguely in the beginning, I told them I had never used them, that I did not believe Terri ever did because she and I had similar views against using them and while we were on different supplement regimens when I was training for a marathon in 2008 I still remembered her to be knowledgeable about legal and effective nutritional supplements. I had no reason to believe she had ever used any kind of steroids. I can’t say conclusively she never did but it would shock me.
Stoy: Why shock you?
Spicher: Because a few years back I recall Terri telling me that Kaine was what she referred to as “juicing” and that his behavior had become very aggressive and well, impatient or overeactive with the kids and she had discussed it with him and he ignored her.
Stoy: So for the record, when you say juicing you are referring to illegal steroids, not my Omega specials I make, correct? That was the only question they ever asked you and did not ask any follow up questions like how long ago, etc, etc. And so would you characterize the way law enforcement asked that question and their reaction to your response as disinterested, or having nothing to do with the case?
Spicher: I was never asked about Kaine’s use of steroids by either detectives or the grand jury. But yes, that is what she told me. I actually had forgotten all about it until she refreshed my recollection when I stayed there with her. To the best of my memory I was asked just what I said, I answered as I just said and was never asked any follow up question nor was it mentioned again to me by law enforcement . I don’t think I ever really understood what they did or did not think in terms of my information was important to the case, but yes, they were disinterested from my perspective as to it was the only time I was ever asked about it over the course of three and a half years and so my assumption is they still are. But that is my assumption.
Stoy: Understood, you are referring to the time you stayed at the Horman home late June 2010 through early July 2010 following Kaine’s service of the restraining order and her exclusive use of the home? Spicher: I am not sure about the exclusive use part, I didn’t really know anything about how that sort of thing worked and I think for some reason I want to say Terri was not allowed to show anyone.
Stoy: Ok. Tell me everything you know about that. But, I would like you to see if you can provide me your recollection from what you were told about steroid use PRIOR to your conversations about it that refreshed your memory. By the way, who else knows about this, if you know.
Spicher: Terri’s attorney Stephen Houze.
Stoy: How would you know that?
Spicher: Because I helped her load them up, what appeared to me to be syringes in a box and deliver it to her attorney’s office, she said, at his request. She also located some cancelled checks for what she said was Kaine’s payment for steroids. I don’t remember who they were made out to but it was not to cash.
Stoy: ok, understood, we will get back to that. I want to try and focus on what she told you those “few years back.” Do you recall what year, even ballpark.
Spicher: I want to say, but can’t be sure, it was after her competition in 2005, and I am tempted to say it was around the time they got married or shortly thereafter- I am just not going to be much help in remembering this if you are asking me to extract what I remembered from then on my own.
Stoy: Nope, that’s what I am asking, your fine, I don’t want to lead you but let me ask you a few things that may help. Do you remember where you were during the conversation.
Spicher: I remember it was either the one and only time I ever had lunch with Terri, or it was during a time she called my cell, Terri had a lot of drama, and so I was in a Home & Garden Show class and I recall I was saying things out loud to let he know I was not free to talk really or respond as she was talking, so I was saying things like… I don’t know, we should probably touch base on that when I am done here, or sounds good that we chat on it later.
Stoy: The brush up the other party is not getting, like that?
Spicher: Yes, she was not getting it and so I was kind of 50% paying attention. It was either during that call or at the lunch. Other than that, I am not remembering the timing so well.
Stoy: But you would say a few years before Kyron went missing so based on that 2007 or 2008? Do you remember if they were married at the time?
Spicher: Again, we were friends for a good number of years but not close friends, I almost felt like if she was calling me or talking to me about it she had no other option at the time.
Stoy: Got it. What did she say
Spicher: She said that Kaine had been aggressive with her and impatient with the children and she attributed that to his “juicing”. She confronted him and she felt he did not listen to her. She told me that she then called a detective and turned in Kaine’s seller. The member at the gym, I used to know the name but I really can’t recall because I was in the early morning crowd and this guy was more afternoon, I presume when they were there or they saw him. I had stopped going to the same gym as them ater the first year or two I met them there.
Stoy: So she called a detective to turn in the seller Kaine was buying steroids from? Wasn’t she concerned about the fact that buying them is also illegal and that Kaine could face charges?
SPicher: She told me that she contacted a detective and said she would be willing to turn over information about someone selling steroids but only if she could do so anonymously and without saying who was buying them, etc.
Stoy: So it was your understanding that she was trying to work out a scenario that would stop Kaine’s use without him ever knowing it was her by turning in that person? Sort of like… she gets approval to remain anonymous, she gives the tip and then one day comes home and says… “Hey honey, guess what I heard at the gym.. you better stop that or you could be arrested for it, etc?
Spicher: Yes, something like that. Except and again, we have discussed it at one or both these occasions, but that did not work out. The detective called her again directly and she was upset that there was further contact. From what I recall, I think that was the tone of what she was telling me.
Stoy: Understood, so you are thinking that it may have been why she was sort of wired about it and not hearing you try to go about your day, but insisting and venting like she was upset by it.
Spicher: Yes, I think so.
Stoy: Do you think she could have called you because your Dad was law enforcement and she might need that sort of advice. I don’t think so because she did not ask for any. So then what? Did Kaine find out?
Spicher: I just remember there was some sort of investigation of the guy, and I really don’t know if Kaine ever found out about it or knows to this day. If the seller or anyone was arrested or anything else at the time I do not remember, that was how much I paid attention to it then until Terri reminded me of it.
Stoy: Ok. Now, why is it that Terri was discussing it with you when you were staying at the house with her in your view?
Spicher: Because after the restraining order was served and I guess she realized where Kaine was headed, it was sort of like- if he was going to badmouth her, in her estimation it was false, but anyway, that Kaine had skeletons in his own closet sort of thing. She told her lawyer [Houze] and she said he instructed her to bring the syringes and the cancelled checks to his office. We did.
Stoy: So was Terri saying that Kaine was using steroids behind her back and she found this or that she knew and was having sort of the same reaction as last time, or she just learned once he was out of the home or what? Was she suggesting this to you like it had something to do with Kyron’s disappearance?
Spicher: I got the impression she did not know, or at least did not know when the last time he was using them was, but it gets fuzzy for me there because it is my belief up until the time the RO was served, in my opinion she would have tried to protect Kaine from le finding out so I don’t know if she told le, but it would surprise me. Terri was always very family centric. She would protect her family unit, and that is why she did the turning in thing, this would seem the same to me until he made those murder for hire allegations.
Stoy: So did you get the impression from her that she thought that her allegation of Kaine’s steroid use had anything to do with Kyron’s disappearance?
Spicher: No, not at all.
Stoy: Nothing like, maybe this happened as some sort of retribution against her for turning someone in previously or against Kaine if they thought he was involved because after all she says he was the one buying it back then?
Spicher: No, she told me she had no idea who was responsible for Kyron’s disappearance or why, and the only possibility she came up with after the fact because of his past behavior and the fact that he showed up at her door demanding $10,000 she had no idea what he was talking about, that it was the landscaper. He was the only person acting like a criminal at the time.
Stoy: Have you ever seen a text of hers involving the custody situation after the fact, after the Rudy Sanchez Estrada “sting” and she called police twice that day/evening that ended with “mark 1 for the FBI.”
Spicher: I may have, if I did I don’t remember it specifically.
Stoy: She specifically said the FBI, who has only ever assisted in this case, and who has no jurisdictional presence in Kyron’s case, I was just wondering if you had any thoughts on that.
Spicher: No, I don’t have any idea what she meant.
Is it possible that illegal steroid use or sales and the recent public outing there was an ongoing Federal Investigation with the emphasis on police and gym members that included persons familiar to the Horman’s contributed to the circumstances involving the disappearance of Kyron Horman?
Has it been excluded by having more law enforcement investigating themselves?
Roid Rumors and Boys In Blue.. Coincidence Or Clue?
It is no secret that Oregon has seen it’s share of corruption allegations in recent years. The very public and very disturbing account of it’s Governor Neil Goldschmidt’s involvement with a 14 year old girl earned Willamette Week’s Nigel Jaquiss a Pulitzer in 2005 for breaking the story a year earlier. As a strong argument for the trickle down effect, Goldschmidt’s former driver Bernie Giusto- who became the Multnomah County Sheriff following the debacle, was forced to resign his position when a State agency declared they would be removing his police certifications due to his lack of “moral fitness” outlined in the now infamous Giusto Report. A former Sheriff, Bob Skipper, was then appointed to take his place, but after two attempts could not pass the required certifications. The current Multnomah Sheriff Dan Staton, who has since won an election, was appointed in his place. Several current MCSO officers assigned to Kyron’s case were interviewed for the Giusto report.
In fact, Bobby O’Donnell was the lead investigator in Kyron’s case for the first 18 months who according to his own words in his interview was the unfortunate subject of an allegation involving his own very messy divorce.
MCSO Sgt Brett Ritchie stated in a police interview that O’Donnell was seen waving a gun and threatening his life [Ritchie] after he began dating O’Donnell’s ex wife. Laura O’Donnell was granted a restraining order against him that later became an agreement between the couple.
The lead investigator in the case of a missing child openly threatened a ranking officer and that incident was never investigated outside of Ritchie being told to stay away from O’Donnell. O’Donnell’s deposition and his motion to quash it are the subject of a hearing scheduled for Friday September 13, 2013.
There is no question the agency tasked with the investigation into the disappearance of Kyron Horman has had several and more recent embarrassing entanglements.
In another investigative piece by the Willamette Week, it exposes the egregious overtime paychecks that members of the prosecutors and investigators assigned to Kyron’s case have received during the early months following Kyron’s disappearance.
It is unclear how Multnomah County ever had jurisdiction in the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance. According to the Skyline School’s filed safety and response plan, the Portland Police Bureau is the agency of record.
Multnomah County’s former woes might have paled a bit in comparison if only by the difference a year makes to public memory, to that of their fellow neighboring officers in Canby, located in Clackamas County.
After several investigations into the selling and possible use of anabolic steroids a Canby Police officer, which were repeatedly stalled due to his caption tipping other’s off in the alleged ring , Officer Jason Deason was arrested along with Canby Landscape Supply Owner William Traverso, Brian Casey Paul Jackson were arrested. The investigation was believed to be ongoing and Traverso, Deason and Jackson all cut deals for quick prison stints that shocked fellow officers and the public alike. The specifics of which were sealed by the court. It is now known that the Federal Bureau of Investigation continued to require the ongoing cooperation of it’s criminals turned informants to pursue federal indictments against possible targets in law enforcement and members of the bodybuilding set- to include acquaintances of Kaine and Terri Horman.
Presuming the confirmed allegations are true- is it possible that ‘a few years back’ Terri Horman unwittingly set off a state turned Federal investigation into the buying, using and selling of human growth hormone and anabolic steroids? How could this be connected, if it is, to the timing of Kyron’s disappearance even if she had?
“… Jackson, through a plea deal on state charges in 2009 where he admitted to selling anabolic steroids to Canby police officers in uniform, had been working with the FBI on an ongoing investigation when they confronted him with the knowledge that he was found deceptive on a polygraph designed to indicate if Jackson’s participation was far more extensive then he originally admitted to…”
“…Jackson, with his attorney, began cooperating with federal authorities shortly after his arrest. He identified his source for steroids as Vancouver resident Rainbow “Bo” Wild Keepers, 39, a competitive bodybuilder and photographer. Agents ran Keepers’ name in federal databases and discovered that an Arizona man had tipped off the Drug Enforcement Administration years ago that Keepers was his source of steroids. Keepers was never charged…”
On June 3rd, 2010, approximately 24 hours before Kyron Horman’s disappearance, Jackson was arrested on a Federal warrant following a sealed indictment issued the day before after failing a polygraph and refusing to help the FBI further.
From the Indictment:
Between June 2, 2005 and May 2008, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials B.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).
It has since been revealed that the initials BW stand for Bradley Worden. Worden owns a few businesses, all relating to wholesale gym equipment or nutritional products. Worden has never been charged.
Between June 2006 and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute human growth hormone for use in a human, to a person with the initials N.W., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sction 333(e)(l).
The identity of the person with initials NW is unknown.
Between June 2, 2005, and December 2007,: in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule illcontrolled substances, to a person with the initials G.P., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and
841(b)( 1)(E).
The identity of the person with the initials G.P is unknown.
Between June 2, 2005, and June 2007, in the District of Oregon, BRIAN CASEY PAUL JACKSON, defendant herein, did knowingly and unlawfully distribute anabolic steroids, Schedule III controlled substances, to a person with the initials S.B., whose full name is known to the grand jury, in violation of Title 21, United States Code, Sections 84l(a)(l) and 84l(b)(1)(E).
The initials S.B. refer to Steve Beaudoin, a former work associate of Jackson’s and current Oregon State safety officer.
According to assistant U.S. Attorney Jane Shoemaker, Jackson sold Beaudoin at least 50 pills of the steroid Winstrol, an injectable steroid called Deca Durabolin, Sustanon and, in June 2007, 100 pills of Anavar on one to two occasions. Shoemaker also said Jackson sold Beaudoin $500 worth of human growth hormone. Investigators discovered the sales through witness interviews and Jackson’s computer records, Shoemaker said.
From Buff To Puff
In contrast to Jackson, although Traverso also sold to Deason and other members of law enforcement, William ‘Jake’ Traverso, a former competitive bodybuilder and “Mr. Oregon” cooperated extensively with the FBI by identifying other law enforcement officers he sold steroids to, and got a lenient sentence of 15 days in jail, 30 days home detention and 24 months probation, with no federal charges.
In a letter submitted to a Clackamas County judge Monday, FBI Special Agent Christopher Frazier said that Traverso has discussed his drug distribution activities in detail. “The public safety employees identified by Traverso included law enforcement officers, corrections officers, fire and rescue personnel and university public safety officers,” Frazier wrote, “Several spin-off FBI public corruption investigations were initiated as a result of these allegations, and are ongoing.”
Traverso, Deason and Jackson were cooperating with the Feds simultaneously, and in a very public way. Although Deason had been similarly employed by the Canby Police under Chief Greg Kroeplin, at least one of the raids on Traverso- Deason’s client, was by Deason’s Canby fellow officer James Murphy.
John Hingson, Traverso’s attorney and past commentator on the Horman case, sparred with then ADA Norm Frink as well. Hingson unearthed the report that included Murphy had been demoted following Deason’s arrest and his credibility was called into question. Murphy worked the graveyard shift with Deason. The report also revealed that both Deason and Officer James Murphy, who was one of the few to initiate an investigation into Deason’s steroid abuse, were put at risk when they were scheduled to work side by side as the only two officers on that shift.
“…Hingson obtained a 2009 report written by private detectives the City of Canby had hired to investigate the steroid scandal. Among their findings: Murphy had been demoted from detective to officer for alleged dishonesty…”
Chief GregKroeplin resigned prior to release of a scorching memo outlining the city’s findings they had outsourced properly to two retired Oregon detectives, which would have resulted in his termination.
Murphy, still employed by Canby Police, is apparently looking to renew the agencies stint for bad press.
On October 13, 2011, six months after former Willamette Week journalist James Pitkin featured his Lord of The Flies article outlining Murphy’s internal investigation led to his demotion for dishonestly, he arrested a freelance sports reporter while taking pictures of him exiting the Canby Police Headquarters on duty and entering his personal vehicle.
Andrew Millbrooke filed a Federal lawsuit in 2012 against The City of Canby, Officer James Murphy and his captain Bret Smith for excessive force and wrongful arrest which took place after Murphy used his cruiser to follow Millbrooke who was on foot. In a police report from another officer in the case, Millbrooke tells him he is a freelance journalist trying to expose corruption and drug use by Officer Murphy. The suit is pending. A review of the declarations by both Mr. Smith and Mr. Murphy do not include the details of the investigative report commissioned by The City Of Canby discussing Mr. Murphy’s prior demotion. Mr. Murphy also had a recent court decision regarding improper procedure [See Bonneau].
With pending motions to release the employment files of some Canby police officers to include Murphy, the charges against Traverso were dismissed this past May due the state delaying the case over 23 months.
Traverso, Deason and Jackson are all currently on probation. Traverso is awaiting trial on recent charges involving watermelon theft.
As the Federal Bureau of Investigation is listed as an investigative partner to MCSO in the Kyron Horman investigation, it is their policy not to release files where they are not the lead agency of record or during an ongoing criminal investigation .
Requests for comment from Kaine Horman through his attorney Brett Engel regarding the allegations that he has either purchased or sold illegal steroids have not been returned at the time of this publication.
However, in an article published to include a quote from Kaine Horman it seems that Kaine confirms Ms. Spicher’s assertion that Terri Horman did not use illegal steroids, but rather nutritional supplements and had moved past those very quickly after her bodybuilding competition.
“…Kaine said he noticed a sharp shift in her behavior, saying she became self-centered and short-tempered.
“She’s not eating a lot of food, she’s exercising twice a day, she’s up at 4 o’clock in the morning, she’s not sleeping at night so we get just general irritable behavior towards everyone around her,” he said.
He said she consumed over-the-counter stimulants, such as fat burners, in high doses. In four months between January and April, she shed 62 pounds, dropping from 185 to 123 pounds, he said.
At the end of April, with her muscles bulked up and skin glistening with a bronze tan, she competed in the Emerald Cup bodybuilding competition in Bellevue, Wash…”
S.Christina Stoy, Editor In Chief, www.blinkoncrime.com was able to independently confirm Ms. Spicher’s account of alleged steroid use and ensuing investigation of a gym member as told to her by Terri Horman.
The source, an associate of Terri Horman, DeDe Spicher and Kaine Horman who declined to be identified, went on to say that at the time it was “… really common knowledge who was using steroids and who was selling them…” “… was not aware previously that Terri Horman claimed to have instigated contact with law enforcement to turn in the seller…” The source declined to identify the seller and could not say for certain if he was charged and likely would not away- given the request not to disclose the source’s name on the record.
Reached for comment, Terri Moulton Horman Attorney Stephen Houze declined to comment based on his policy of not speaking publicly when a client has pending legal matters.
A request for comment to Mr. Bunch, Terri Horman’s divorce attorney has not been returned by the time of this publication.
More Questions Than Answers..
Following several hours of interviews with DeDe Spicher, the woman who was not a close friend to Terri Horman but ultimately was the closest to her in the early days of the investigation- are we left with more questions than answers about what could have happened to the little boy whose 11th birthday was 2 days ago?
Spicher concedes that anything she discussed as told to her by Terri Horman in some minor instances may only be verifiable by Horman herself- and she is not talking… Yet.
She also points out that ultimately everything she told me she shared with investigators as far as “truthfulness” was confirmed by a polygraph – to include the question “Was she withholding any information from investigators?”
She was not.
Although limited, Spicher’s accounts in many instances confirm sparse information heard early on from Terri herself. Not the least of which was that although widely criticized for not speaking out publicly, she was told by investigators not to under any circumstances- and when she broached the possibility of retaining counsel was told that she would then be cut off from any information as to the investigation process to find Kyron Horman.
Through Spicher, Horman also confirmed that out of concern for Horman’s “spacieness” which she defined by walking into a room and staring off, not remembering, etc, Terri Horman called his pediatrition Thursday June 3rd and made an appointment for Friday June 11th. His last day of school. Horman also told Spicher that Kyron had wondered off or got lost while in his teacher Ms. Porter’s care once before when following a fellow student out of class.
Initially, prior to learning Kyron had been marked absent not very long after she left the building, that was Horman’s first thought. Those hopes grew into panic with that revelation that he had been missing for hours.
Spicher says Terri was adamant that she never had a sexual relationship with the now infamous landscaper Rudy Sanchez Estrada Spicher agrees that her friend had the propensity to be flirtatious but she never knew her to be sexually promiscuous. Outside of the fact that she says at Kaine’s request to occasionally include an additional female in the bedroom, to which Spicher declined, she was not aware that the Horman’s had a swinger lifestyle.
To her knowledge, there were other women that were asked to participate in a threesome with the couple that did not say no some years ago, but had no current knowledge and she herself was never involved with Horman sexually.
In her take, the addition of a 3rd female was an expression of control on Kaine’s part in the relationship.
Terri explained the landscapers “sexual accosting” , previously reported exclusively by www.blinkoncrime this way:
“… She said she had Kitty on her hip and he came up behind her and was kissing her neck and put his arm around her and when she verbally resisted with concern that Kitty was in her arms he sort of grabbed her and she spun around and broke free…”
Spicher adds that on more than one occasion she tried to bring that up during meetings with DA Norm Frink and investigators. One one occasion, as suggested by her Father, a former Klamath County Marine Officer, at their own expense The Klamath County Sheriff and his first lieutenant had agreed to meet with Frink, Spicher and her father on DeDe’s behalf to sort of provide character backgrounds and family history he felt would be helpful in clearing her.
“… This came up in the first interview I had with Mr Frink and I told him she had made that call. Later in the interview when he was trying to push more of my buttons, he tells me that call never happened (implying Terri had lied to me). I told him okay, that’s what you’re telling me, but I recall it differently (implying he was lying to me right then). He got very angry about that and insisted it was “fact”. I said okay, whatever. Much later, like one of the last times I met with Mr Frink, the Klamath County Sheriff and his 1st Lieutenant flew up on their own dime to meet with Mr Frink & Keith Krafve to see if they could help by offering their opinion of my character, and that it didn’t seem unusual to them at all that I would go help Terri, that it is very consistent with how my family has always been. At that meeting, I retold the story of Rudy sexually accosting Terri (her words), but said I wasn’t sure about the 911 call. That totally infuriated Mr Frink. I told him I was trying to believe him and simply not certain about what I could remember on that point.
The DAs office behaved very strangely toward the Klamath Co Sheriff and his Lt. They tried everything they could to keep us separated and even insisted that they (the DAs office) drive them back to the airport, despite the fine fact that we (Dad & I) had picked them up and brought them in, and would definitely be seeing them again in the near future. It was just weird, to all of us…”
I asked DeDe if she used the term called 911 in every exchange. She had. I asked her if she got the impression that the reason Frink was so sure it never happened was because there was no 911 call on the record about it – could it be that maybe she reached out to that former law enforcement person she contacted on the steroid issue and it was actually a dispatch call versus a trackable 911 call issue.
Spicher says she got the impression that Frink was suggesting that the “accosting” as described by her friend did not happen, but could not be sure except to say that Frink seemed to become irate when she brought it up on every occasion. Spicher felt Sanchez Estrada was the only person behaving like a criminal and that supported the accounts she was given.
I asked DeDe if Terri mentioned ever paying Sanchez Estrada for work at the Horman home. She said she did not recall Terri ever saying anything other than she had no idea what he was talking about when he came to the door and asked for $10,000 so she slammed the door in his face and called 911.
Stoy: So did she think it was some sort of extortion attempt now that she had mentioned him to investigators and they told her that they had interviewed him?
Spicher: She thought that he was dangerous from her past experience.
Stoy: Did you think it was odd that with a brand new John Deere tractor parked outside that TH was hiring a landscaper? I was able to confirm through other sources that he cleared some blackberry or blueberry bushes similar to Ms. Von Klevelen, and the tractor does not have a UCC lien on it, meaning it was not financed.
Spicher: No, it wasn’t. Kaine bought it. It was Terri’s job to manage the inside of the house as well as the entire property. I knew that when Kaine would travel he would come up with this project lists for her to complete by the time he got home. I mean, like cleaning the gutters, cutting the grass, washing all the windows, that sort of thing. To the best of my recollection Terri and Kaine did not have bank accounts together- he controlled everything he made.
Stoy: With a baby, 7 year old and teenager and hubby out of town? How was she managing that? No wonder he was suggesting that she was pouring through money like water or something like that, she was probably hiring help. I am not even sure I think a woman by herself at that property with a baby should be on the roof by herself anyway.
Spicher: No, Terri had to pay any support money or whatever to the household expenses and I have surmised Kaine gave her some sort of allowance which she probably blew through pretty quickly on frivolous things like food and clothes for her children. I have never known Terri to be frivolous with money. I know of at least two times when the projects she was supposed to accomplish were impossible for her to manage. One was the windows so I believe she hired someone that time and as I recall her parents paid for that. I believe the other was the landscaper.
Stoy: Is it a fair question for me to ask how you feel about Kaine, from your tone I am sensing you are not a fan.
Spicher: I have tremendous compassion for Kaine- he lost his child- what can one even say about that? But no, he is not someone I would want to be friends with today and I was cordial to him whenever I was around him but he was very controlling and was pretty mean to Terri about her weight from Kitty, things like that- I am not going to have anything in common with that.
Stoy: Did Terri ever mention anything about conflicts with Desiree Young, whether they were between her and she or Kaine and Desiree?
Spicher: Not that I recall, but I also never heard her speak of Desiree negatively at any time previously or when I stayed with her [Terri].
Stoy: That is saying a lot because right after the sting Ms. Young was pretty accusatory pretty quickly- and I do note that was based on information from law enforcement. Similar to some of the things both she and Kaine said publicly about you. Are you angry about that?
Spicher: O my no. That poor woman is going through hell and acted on information that I was told, lie or not, was given to her and Kaine. I have nothing but compassion for her and I wish I could shoulder some of her pain because I can.. I have nothing but compassion for all of Kyron’s parents and any anger I have over how I was treated, what I went through would never be directed at them. I really pray that Kyron will be found, I choose to put my energy into hope for that.
Pending Matters
Through Attorney Bunch, Terri Horman makes the claim that both law enforcement and Kaine Horman have been perpetrating the dissemination of inaccurate information involving the circumstances of Kyron Horman’s disappearance.
In a recent filing, set for hearing this Friday, Bunch pens a scathing reply to Deputy O’Donnell’s motion to quash, and accuses the county of improper ex parte communication.
Early this afternoon, a source within the Multnomah County Courthouse speaking on the condition of anonymity has confirmed that on behalf of Multnomah County, a motion has been filed to limit certain documents or discoverable information related to Mr. Horman and Bobby O’Donnell of the MCSO.
A hearing is scheduled before Judge Kantor for this Friday September 13, 2013
Jacqueline Beaufort, Ellie Sanders – research and contributing editors to this article.
Jason Mateos- contributing editor, copy.
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research project or opinion re pension for vw as you easily master PERS rules.
talkingabout informal social influences on McKnight, not explicit corruption.
veromi puts mcknight at 60; part-time teaching spouse at 66.
Does she need to run again in 2013 for a 3rd term to qualify for a pension?
She was at Legal Aid her entire career until 2002.
term currently ends in 2014 with 12 years of service.
My question is does she need to put in 15 years (until 2017) to pension-qualify? I guess then she’d be 64 or 65. Resigning before the 6 yr term ends of course so Kitzhaber can appoint the next entrenchee rather than the voters have a fresh start.
If she needs 1 more election to make a pension, imo the endorsement of folks like Kitz, the local DA, the family court DA (Woods), local Bar Pres in 2013, local Sheriff & Police Chief, are critical to a Judge running for reelection.
http://courts.oregon.gov/Multnomah/General_Info/Judges/McKnight/pages/Judge_McKnight_Biography.aspx
—
I can see a retiring judge, who shared the small DV bench with her, dropping by to say, I’ve put a lot of time in on this case. I’d appreciated your assigning HK, who attended my own law school in the 70s & has been a judge since 1994 to pick it up, & he is agreeable. Meis’ motivation could be no more than longtime DA colleagues made a suggestion to him. He could have further thrown in, the DA & Sheriff are hopeful the ongoing judge will continue to work as circumspectly as I have, and are very comfortable with Henry. I don’t think, whoever approached her, McKnight would fact check Henry’s CV. It would be enoughto know he’d been on the bench over a decade & Meis, DA, & Sheriff were on board. imo she knew the endorsements needed if running again.
If running again was necessary for a pension, all one needed was for Meisenheimer or someone similar to name drop. in my opinion only.
@erose. I felt there was a background reason (set of informal affiliations)
he was chosen. At the time, comparing cv’s, I personally distrusted
his inclusion’s merit. Iirc a seasoned poster here stuck up for him.
A legislative friend of Sean?
We don’t know the names Bunch proposed were all
initiated by Bunch. Could’ve been suggested to him by Rackgel &
he saw no reason not to include. This would’ve been before Bunch
was fully sandbagged & on the alert to
Rackgel’s litigation tactics.
Personally, I’d have scrubbed to the max anyone Rackgel proposed.
@3.0. The custody & civil case exist only
because of criminal violations alleged
by mcso via affidavit (Kaine’s, quoting mcso).
2 judges relied on mcso’s criminal violation
allegations as conveyed by father & Rackner
to sever mother from daughter.
@erose. I too have wondered at Sean’s silence since Apr 2013 & checked in every couple months.
Sharp eye to spot Vinh. I suppose he was suggested to father’s attorneys. Sean notes 2 sites
including OSP where Kyron is categorized a parent/family abduction. Was mcso responsible for that
categorization? My own take to OSP if TH’s lawyer woukd be Do you mean Desiree or Kaine, & I’d maje these
2 entities recategorize. Imo it’s all Vinh will need, objectively.
apologies I keep spelling Vien’s name wrong
http://courts.oregon.gov/OJD/docs/OSCA/cpsd/courtimprovement/familylaw/SFLACMtg.MinutesFINAL4-7-06.pdf
wonder his Subcommittee?
here’s that workshop erose.
http://courts.oregon.gov/OJD/docs/osca/cpsd/courtimprovement/familylaw/sflacconference_april2006.pdf
Vien apparently was on the Senate Interim Task Force on Parental Abduction.
That Senate piece of work was Sean’s baby per his online writings.
http://blogoliticalsean.blogspot.com/2011/03/report-to-oregon-senate-on-parental-and.html?m=1
page 3 of 9
Vien’s name keeps popping up with McKnight’s on parental abduction matters. The only missing name is Woods imo. Maybe McKnight didn’t require influence, just looked at Meis & said “Who’s reliable?”
http://courts.oregon.gov/OJD/docs/OSCA/cpsd/courtimprovement/familylaw/MINUTESFinal09-09-05.pdf
@Amys. Sorry you feel there is a “Terri is innocent team” here.
I myself have seen no one make that statement. Many of us have
disavowed that idea.
Wrt Panda’s question–It seemed to be based on 2 posts she made,
one of which “disappeared.” I believe she was concerned that was due to its
content. She asked Blink about it, & Blink had no knowledge of Post 2.
More frequent posters would know that often happens when a url is rejected & the entire post
goes poof. Such posters do not infer content has been scrutinized & rejected but re-post trying (dot)
in place of every url’s period until the post sticks.
@Amys. Just read a bit more of your post.
Yes Terri & babyk are both victims: of individuals with
mcso, the DA, & mostly Kaine. The Horman family system
must have played its role in Kaine’s direction.
And victims of Desiree, her family system, & associated
nut jobs.
Houses & Bunch are competent, ethical attorneys. I am not sure what their
counterparts’ issues are, ethics or competence. We shall continue to watch their
unveiling–off camera. There is plenty on the
public record suggesting Mcso, PPB, & the DA’s Office have had those issues
in other cases. Why should this one differ?
this came up when googling randy leonard maureen mcknight
http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/pages/records/legislative/legislativeminutes/1997/senate/rules_elections/srule.611.html
(idk where she appears)
but Leonard helped craft legislation deliberating chosing no legislative standard for a “best interests” test (silence) or childrens’ attorneys (lines 033, 042)
MockingbirdSings says, I’m confused. I thought we learned from parents’ depositions that the money came from them and there was no expectation of repayment.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don’t believe we have seen the transcript of that deposition. Chances are they will testify on the hearing next week. Whatever money they have agreed to pay Houze goes directly to Houze. whatever the contract is, is between Houze and the Moultons.
GH- I believe that the retainer agreement must be between TMH and Houze- via a trust account each attorney has to set up for each client. The loan or gift or early inheritance must “live” in that account to be drawn upon as billed.
B
Rose says:
December 26, 2013 at 1:40 pm
The person with the hard job is Dr Vinh.
Can you see him having to work in therapy on
Kaine telling babyk a reasonable explanation that
does not impugn the mother/child bonding of why
mother has been gone much of her life, that it wasn’t mothers choice.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@Rose, Vien cannot treat or engage in therapy with either of the parents. He is appointed by the court as an evaluator only.
FWIW, if he is Edward Vien, PhD, he got a low overall ranking from nine individuals on Healthgrades. All of his scores are below national average.
@Mom3.0
never forget that in court at least, T is presumed innocent. not only that she has never been charged with any crime. Houze has said she is innocent but there is no appropriate occasion to to expound on this in a divorce. It is only relevant because the implications of criminal behavior have longed delayed the divorce and separated a mother and child. Engel is IMO way out of bounds to presume T is guilty and “accuse” T’s team of trying to prove her innocent.
in your “anybody might be guilty” category, do you believe there is as much possibility that Kaine, Desiree, Tony, some school staff member, some LE member, some stranger is guilty, as you do that T is guilty? oh yes, forgot dede. although she passed her poly, LE still won’t publicly clear her. Usually when you talk about guilt, you only mention T as possibly guilty, not the bios or TY or the school staff, all prominent players in this drama.
my statement that JK, DA, LE, K, D, TY all want T to confess rather than solve the case themselves:
yes it is up to DA, LE to solve the case. figure out what happened to Kyron, who did it, where he is, and for MFO there should be some kind of evidence not somebody’s uncontested statement. K, D, TY and even JK have declared themselves happy with LE’s “progress” and approach. They are invested completely in the targeting of T as the answer. As someone recently mentioned, they have NEVER asked whoever has Kyron to return him. They have only pointed fingers at T. so they are complicit in the disastrous “investigation”.
I don’t believe BunchofHouzes told Terri not to talk to press because of the sexting. after all that was a private exchange that was never intended to be public. The only time she talked to media that I recall was when Pitkin went to her house and encountered her in the yard. Rather then run into the house and slam the door she did speak briefly with him. of course K, D, and TY talked to press even before sting.
Here is some info about what to do if you don’t like or trust your attorney. It sounds like if you were in T’s position you would not trust Houze and Bunch to proceed properly. Take a look at this.
http://www.sharpelawfirm.org/know-your-rights/things-you-need-to-know/having-problems-with-your-current-attorney/
If your husband is in complete control of marital assets and you have nothing with which to hire another attorney let alone pay for experts, depositions and who knows what, you would end with a public defender.
It also sounds like you don’t believe you could ever end up in a position like the one T is in. That is why we are all so horrified by this. Not only has a woman’s life been destroyed without charges or evidence, a little girl psychologically damaged by being separated from her mother and told who knows what, but once the law is thrown out the window, as it has happened in this case, EVERY SINGLE PERSON is at risk.
What about Kyron? I know people are saying this. None of this has to do with Kyron. Destroying T’s life and ripping a child from her mommy does not help find Kyron. nothing in this divorce helps find Kyron. It’s not that he isn’t important. NOT AT ALL! I realize you still believe T might know where Kyron is, maybe even hope she does to justify all this. I don’t think she does know. I think evidence would have been discovered by now. Even if she did know, it was still the job of LE to figure out what happened, come up with evidence. No point in going over all that again.
Amys Sister says:
December 26, 2013 at 5:12 pm
“Every person here is surmising based on their own perceptions. It is said that the truly wise can hold one position while still entertaining the other. The truth almost always lies somewhere in the middle.”
~~~~~~~~~~~
So true, Amys Sister. People view situations through the lenses of their own experiences and/or knowledge. This is one reason why some investigators attempting to solve cold cases can look at the same evidence a prior investigator has reviewed, and use that info to solve the crime. Thank goodness for differing perspectives.
Although I can speculate as others have, I don’t feel I have enough information to make an informed decision either way about TH’s or anyone else’s potential involvement.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Rose says:
December 26, 2013 at 7:17 pm
@Grace. Do you really expect Kaine to add “Of course afyer evaluating many angkes, MCSO hasn’t ruled me, Desiree, or RS-E either? Who’s he gonna comment on except the ex he’s locked in a struggle for $, house, and babyk with? Moreover, the wife who has plenty beans to spill.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@Rose, I think it would be a safe bet to say that LE looked closely at each of the parents. It is possible that KH is a suspect, but is it probable? I haven’t seen or heard anything that would indicate he is. Imho, the same can be said about DY and TY. TH has been called a “de facto” and “prime” suspect by her own attorney and a judge, respectively. Could there be other suspects? Of course, and I strongly suspect there are or have been others.
I have heard that both KH and TH have “beans to spill” about each other. Some of those *alleged* beans have been spilled by those who claim to know KH and TH. I have always felt that these issues, if true, are what Staton was referring to when he said, “We have knowledge of things we don’t want to know about…of things we wish we didn’t know.” Since LE would not say they don’t want to know about criminal activity, I have long suspected that he was referring to other activities or behaviors that were uncovered in this investigation. AJMHO.
Rose says:
December 27, 2013 at 1:58 am
@3.0 wrt “…I never believed one possibility over any other
therefore for me the possibility that Ky wandered off- was stung by a bee- sz took him…. LE neglagence or any other of the myriad of different scenarios that have been brought up for discussion thru the years are still viable.”
Rose says, “sz took him” is not an alternative “scenario.”
witnesses exist.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@Rose, I understand that there are a couple of witnesses who have said they saw Kyron leave the school with a man, but unless these same witnesses went to look for Kyron after that – and it is my understanding that they did not – how can any of them say Kyron didn’t return to the building? LE would have to interview almost all witnesses who were in the school during that time to get an answer to that question, imo.
That line of inquiry, according to my sources, was completed by interviewing everyone, comparing those results, and then mapping out a timeline with logistics.
Staton alluded to that in his “he was seen much later in then morning” comment.
Although I have to say, I have some grave concerns about the strength of that data considering as I mentioned long ago, there is a boy that is an absolute dead ringer for Kyron at a glance, or for someone not very familiar with him and Kyron to be sure of the difference.
B
Personally, I have thought that TH was innocent since Kaine suddenly remembered he had not asked for the house back in 07/10. That said, I ponder every comment posted here. Always something new/different angle of looking at things that I hadn’t considered and I appreciate it all.
When I entertain the idea that TH did it/involved than I feel I must embrace that TH is very cunning. That she has outwitted all the agencies that have been involved, as well as her own Attorneys. I do realize that Mr. Houze instructed TH not to speak or else. But if TH were that cunning than certainly she could leak personal information regarding the bios for the entire world to see /judge (all things not Kyron) through someone other than herself.
Example: We do know that DY’s trip to Canada for medical treatment is not quite true. We also know that it has nothing to do with Kyron’s disappearance and to leave it alone. IMO, the leaking of what really happened with DY 10+ years ago would shatter DY. TH was involved with KH then and knows exactly what happened. Why has TH never leaked that information to anyone?
Agreed and to tell you the truth, now that I think about it, it might be true that doing so would conceivably have influenced public opinions about both DY, and KH- and turned scrutiny around like a boomerang and away from her.
I am not entirely sure I would not have deviated from the high road path if I were her. I can like to think I would all day long- but doubtful if I were to be separated from my child as a result.
B
If TH signed the retainer agreement, and Sr Moultons signed the payment agreement, it’s the latter’s debt.
I did same for wills, durable power of attorneys, health care docs etc for 2 adult children.
Oh to be a fly on the wall of any behind the scene conversations taking place at HouseofBunch, Kaine’s team, LE, Rudy’s mind, Horman house, Skyline attorneys’, etc. You are right mom, we just don’t know.
What I have learned by reading/posting here is that Blink has a ton of vetted info that she cannot share publically. When she can, however, she does immediately. Her slowly released, yet rock-solid facts have helped me to form my own personal opinion regarding this case. I also believe that as Blink vets and/or receives credible information her opinion evolves, which helps us all open our minds beyond what we might have thought originally.
Going back to the beginning of all Blink’s Kyron threads is helpful and very interesting, however, to pull quotes from way back and post now, isn’t always helpful. Unless the person doing so also pulls every post Blink has made since that time WRT new information etc.
Regarding “learning from the Powell case” WRT Terri having supervised visits? I can’t wrap my mind around how Powell was getting his supervised visits at his home. They should have been at a controlled environment, such as at a DSHS facility. I do believe that visits between Baby K and Terri (grandparents too) could be often and extremely safe.
advisory council names
McKnight swore Saltzmann in btw.
http://www.portlandoregon.gov/gatewaycenter/article/465630
@Panda…One hopefully helpful thing for you to know. I’ve had a few of my posts never appear, not often, but occasionally they stay in perpetual “awaiting moderation” status. I never take it personally, as I know it’s probably a tech-glitch of some sort. If I feel I MUST get a particular thought across to readers here, I just re-post. Reading Panda, Amy and mom’s posts are sometimes frustrating, but always welcome and usually interesting for me. xo
Excellent Point Nate, thank you!
An interesting read – ABA Standards for prosecutorial investigations:
http://www.americanbar.org/publications/criminal_justice_section_archive/crimjust_standards_pinvestigate.html#2.2
IMO
Kaine can spend all the money he wants and hire lawyers get court decisions RO protective orders etc but the one thing he cannot do is make TH not be Kitty’s bio mom. And i think that that is what he wants to do. Kitty will someday want contact with her mother her brother and her maternal grandparents. She will probably resent Kaine for not giving her any say the situation. I hope he is not lying to Kitty about her mom because that will definitely cause trouble in the future.
His legal team knows this but they are quite willing to continue to take Kaine’s money and are probably basking in the publicity that surrounds this divorce. They get to hear their names on the nightly news and their words are published in the newspaper( free publicity). So I am sure the lawyers will keep the custody/visitation/divorce fight going as long as the court will allow it.
@Blink
Here are the two most recent Orders from Kantor. I’ve never seen a “draft” of an Order show up in the files.
http://vwoolfexploresthenorthwest.blogspot.com/
GraceintheHills says:
December 27, 2013 at 2:47 pm
Rose says:
December 27, 2013 at 1:58 am
@3.0 wrt “…I never believed one possibility over any other
therefore for me the possibility that Ky wandered off- was stung by a bee- sz took him…. LE neglagence or any other of the myriad of different scenarios that have been brought up for discussion thru the years are still viable.”
Rose says, “sz took him” is not an alternative “scenario.” witnesses exist.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@Rose, I understand that there are a couple of witnesses who have said they saw Kyron leave the school with a man, but unless these same witnesses went to look for Kyron after that – and it is my understanding that they did not – how can any of them say Kyron didn’t return to the building? LE would have to interview almost all witnesses who were in the school during that time to get an answer to that question, imo.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
blink says, That line of inquiry, according to my sources, was completed by interviewing everyone, comparing those results, and then mapping out a timeline with logistics. Staton alluded to that in his “he was seen much later in then morning” comment.
Although I have to say, I have some grave concerns about the strength of that data considering as I mentioned long ago, there is a boy that is an absolute dead ringer for Kyron at a glance, or for someone not very familiar with him and Kyron to be sure of the difference.
B
~~~~~~~~~~
Blink, if there was a child there that day who is a dead ringer for Kyron, that adds another potentially complicating angle to the investigation.
I completely agree and it has haunted me from the beginning. I am not sure how that issue was either developed investigatively- or managed as to building a profile or witness corroboration, but it remains a consideration for me to this day. It has to until it can be excluded.
Irt LE’s questioning of all the other attendees and the timeline that was developed – In my experience, this is not information that LE would typically share with potential witnesses UNLESS LE thought they might gain additional evidence from the witnesses. Do you know if the FBI worked with these witnesses in an attempt to develop a composite? Also, if TH left around 9AM and these witnesses indicate that this male interacted with Kyron between 9:00 and 9:20, that is not very much later in the morning. Could it be that this interaction happened closer to 10:00?
The interaction per se is pretty defined. HOWEVER, I agree that Ky sightings took place in the parking lot after he went outside with SZ. Again, I question the witnesses that might have been shown a pic of Kyron, and not assumed it was another boy, except to say there is no question it was Kyron who left the building with him.
In my mind’s eye I see this horrible monster slithering through the hallways looking for his target. If the interaction is as your witnesses described it, Blink, I have a huge problem with a teacher allegedly nodding her approval. Why would any teacher do that? For that matter, why would any perpetrator ask in front of so many witnesses? He could have so easily waited for Kyron to exit the room and enter the hallway.
Respectfully Grace, that is an assumption that he did not do that and had to adjust, or that it was not part of the plan to “be seen.”
I would have sued the school district if my child was abducted during school hours on school grounds. Is there something that these parents know that we don’t?
Indeed. If you are asking my opinion about what the parents know vs. the public, I do not believe there is a shred of information either has that incriminates TMH in Ky’s disappearance. In fact, I saw DY give erroneous information on Dr. FillFix and Kaine changed his timing.
AJMHO.
Me in Blood Gracie
B
Panda I understand why you felt the need to ask that question- as Amyssister wrote (pp) it is uncomfortable in here for anyone who is not squarely in the terri camp-
but Blink does and has always allowed differing opinions in this and other cases-
I think for those that question.. it may seem as if we are constantly having to defend our critical thinking skills or feel we must apologize for bringing up a POV that differs- this isnt Blinks fault- its just the way the room feels.
In other words i dont think they put out the welcome mat necessarily but all respectful POV are welcomed –
just make sure you are prepared to debate any stance with more than Youre wrong so there..LOL
–Amyssister thanks for the kind words about my posts
To all that took the time and effort to read no matter how frustrating i appreciate it-
To those that responded thanks and I hope to RIK soon.
AJMO
Peace
visited the file room today. my last trip was dec 18 and NONE of this was in there at that time. I know Max posted some before it was officially public but here is the whole lump going back to beginning of dec. 63 pages of docs and 2 pages of listing at the beginning. includes part of K’s deposition and RSE’s deposition and a bunch of other stuff and an order signed by Kantor.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10147993/Horman%20court%20filings%20dec%201%20to%20dec%2027.pdf
@Blink
Also at above is the Opposition to the Emergency Hearing by Engels. Don’t remember this one being linked. Of interest…He refers to CM’s deposition on Page 3. The last page suggests that since TMH isn’t “expected” to repay the 250,000 that she can live free with her parents forever and pay Kaine’s attorney’s fees?
correction: partS of K’s and RSE’s depositions. wish the whole things had been there!
I know that I – and a few other local Portlanders who read this site – are struggling a bit with putting the TH / Houze silence into in layman’s terms. I can’t imagine simplifying a mess like this, but I said I would ask. There have been so many topics that have been discussed ad-nauseum, but one of the problems is that at times, some of us ‘legal laymen’ *points at self with 2 big neon-lit thumbs* have a hard time understanding some of the language in the discussions.
For example, I’ll read one of Blink’s or a contributors post and it has a word like ‘prima face’ or ‘ex-parte’, ect., ect., ect., so I go and google the definition, then I re-read the post on BOC, trying to replace the word with the definition…and then I’m even more confused. Some of our brains just don’t grasp legalese as well as others.
I do not think that Terri took Kyron. I do, however want to understand her & BofH’z choices – badly. I obviously know little about the law and I am not questioning Houze or Bunches process, they are obviously the experts…I am simply and honestly just trying to understand.
I know that we can’t guess what a legal team is thinking, but is there a simple, layman’s term *example* that may help some of us understand it better?
Example: Let’s say I am a stepmom and many branches of LE want to pin me for something(s), but I didn’t do anything, and I have told LE everything I know. I haven’t been named a suspect, and I haven’t been charged with anything. They tried a sting, it didn’t work…and GJ came back w/o an indictment. I know that they have nothing. I hire the best defense attorney around to defend me against this ‘nothing’ because LE says they have ‘something’ (which is BS). Then, I choose my right to plead the 5th to not incriminate myself even though I haven’t done anything that is incriminating.
Ok…so, at this point, why would my attorney not say to LE “ok, bring it on. You have nothing”. Is he afraid LE will blindside him by planting evidence or frame me with circumstantial evidence / heresay? (Again – I am sincerely asking) And if so, could we not fight the BS at that point? Now, I understand that discovery is legally supposed to be provided to both sides under normal circumstance, but since I know I’m innocent, and I know that anything they have is circumstantial/heresay – at best – why do I keep waiting and waiting – why do I keep quiet? Why not fight the charges, prove to everyone that LE has nothing, and then take legal action against parties who acted unlawfully or hindered the case up to that point? (Am I oversimplifing this too much? I bet I am, but on the off chance…)
What could I say that could incriminate me if I know that I didn’t do anything and that they have nothing. I’ve already said everything – and nothing that I said got me charged or named a suspect, so why be quiet now? Is there perhaps an example of something an innocent person could say that could be incriminating to the point that LE could build a *solid* case against them?
Again, my questions are genuine and not meant to be sarcastic or rude. Maybe there isn’t a way to put it simply anD we are lost causes for understanding this part of it. I personally understand many other aspects of this case as they have been displayed, it’s just this one area I struggle with.
Like Blink said, this could happen to anyone, so it would help to understand why we would make these decisions in this sort of a situation. I know I’m missing a piece (or 7) of this puzzle, and I’m just trying to fill it in so that I can understand. If you think I’m a dummy for not understanding…well, then you’ve got a lotta dummies here in Portland that I’ve spoken tone who would also like to comprehend this part of the big picture.
I genuinely thank all of the contributors here, and Blink for all of your hard work and thank you in advance for anyone that can help the Laymen out with this one.
VLH- I so get that, and I do appreciate you feeling comfortable enough to bring this up. It is a very real and understandable frustration I know some readers share because of the legal complexities of this case, or cases, when we discuss what has gone on over the last 4 years.
I have tried to cover it with legal analysis within the pieces, and all of my work runs through legal because of this. So.. sometimes I have to accept or include edits that may not be able to be “construed” further as to my opinion, if that makes sense. In addition, sometimes there are just too many scenarios or variables to present that it would look like war and peace, lol, and ultimately, the burden is mine if it is something I say in comments so while you can bet it is very well researched, it has to be offered as opinion and opining.
I will make a concentrated effort to be more “laylike” when possible- and I never mind the questions as long as one is reading all the comments and I did not already cover it at length.
To your point about TMH self incrimination. I think people do not realize that she cannot pick and choose her subject matter to which she can agree to testify and preserve her rights. No way no how.
B
“Remember that for each innocent person convicted a guilty person goes free.”
http://www.policeissues.com/html/wrongful_conviction.html
Just some interesting reading. I watched themovie Wronged Man tonight, the Calvin Willis case, and it just made me angry. Sad, but mostly angry. Injustice in our society, with our capabilities, should not exist. And where the F is the SOB who did the crime?
I found the articles above interesting regarding the recording or non-recording of interrogations interesting. Very interesting in regard to this case, because if Terri was never given her rights and not held “in custody” it sounds to me like anything goes. What do you all think? Am I reading this wrong?
@Grace. TY. I did not mean play therapy with babyk, or therapy with Kaine, or conjoint.
However, in my opinion to evaluate Kaine properly as a custody resource, either primary or joint,
I would pose to him a number of questions to elicit how he would reintroduce mother, and explain the absence, return & living setting of mother, incrementally. I would also have teaching questions–designed to efucate & suggest various age & developmentally appropriate options. It would be important to test his mental flexibility, resistance or not to developmental ideas, and so on. Same to her. In my book, the parent who could not adapt to developmentally appropriate explanations about mother’s absence without impugning father but being truthful, nor support the other parent’s fullengagement with the child, wouldn’t reach the watershed of shared physical custody. As occurred in the khawam/wolfe case. She started out with full custody & an RO. He ended up with it, supervision for her, due to tge magnitude of her negativity.
—–
I remember well those low grades, public comments from
parents, & am remembering his political partnerships in Salem and with such
as McKnight, Sean, and likely Woods. At the time I posted Bunch was way off base or something
to that effect to list him. I remember 2 posters here who posted his CV in defense and said trust Bunch.
I felt the other options were far more qualified. Well, at least Hillsboro got the police chief right.
To focus my answer, Grace, I expect questions & discourse
to be informed by the knowledge base & treatment skills of
the psychologist, whether or not there is a therapeutic relationship.
Amy’s sister, thank you for your response.
************************************************
Amys Sister says:
December 26, 2013 at 5:12 pm
Panda says:
December 24, 2013 at 5:47 pm
____
snipped
Panda, yes, it’s ‘allowed’ but not comfortable which is probably why posters who aren’t on the ‘Terri is innocent’ team don’t post here often.
I responded to you as well Panda, wanted to make sure you saw it considering you thought it was not posted
B
http://courts.oregon.gov/OJD/docs/OSCA/cpsd/courtimprovement/familylaw/Minutes9-10-10.pdf
Vien & McKnight
http://courts.oregon.gov/OJD/docs/OSCA/cpsd/courtimprovement/familylaw/CustodyPTR.pdf
2002 Vien has been around FOREVER as a token (imo)
psychologist when Court & DA
reps are scripting legislation, again & again.
http://courts.oregon.gov/OJD/docs/OSCA/cpsd/courtimprovement/familylaw/SFLAC-AGENDA-FINAL12-06-02.pdf
——–
This is the case that convinced me Vien was a highly foolish choice.
See footnote 9.
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/or-court-of-appeals/1377877.html
I assume Bunch will use it on appeal as needed if Vien has the same MO.
I haven’t researched OR’s current “best interests” in any way in terms of case & legislative history.
But remember my url above that about 1997, led in part by R Leonard, the legislature when passing custody legislation was Silent wrt to “best interests of child” guidance. It likely was left to be, or had been, carved out by some trial judge. A candidate on the Mult County bench comes to mind.
Then in 2002 up comes this appellate Court telling Vien & the Trial Court, you can’t just bloody well select any old relative you think would be tiptop at parenting because you think them best for the child versus surviving singke, poorer parent.
Under than earlier Vien standard, a skinny younger Mom who doesn’t argue with Dad, and has been “parenting” for 3 years would do. Kaine’s it would be detrimental to see Terri again would win imo in the Vien world of 2002.
Has his worldview changed? I haven’t checked dates, but it is likely the legislative committees he & McKnight are on, in 2002, in 2010-11, and likely more, were direct responses to appellate opinions restricting local judge’s wont to call what they please the best interests, relying on the evaluator, Vien or others. That is, the Legislature is being pushed to loosen up historic parental rights, I betcha.
—–
A parent must be proven unfit, with a right to defend & to have an attorney Court, before a grandparent or aunt can step in, without the parent’s voluntary permission. Abuse, neglect, some form of moral turpitude. In the 2002
case Vien recommended the equivalent of “if it feels good do it” without independently evaluating father.
@TRuth. imo anything goes. Not a suspect. Not in custody.
Just imo stupid to be there in the first place knowing the bios
& their family members.
Imo she should’ve gone to mother’s with babyk
& James the first nite, removed them & herself from the
turmoil. It was her need to “manage” & “direct” & be the “Helpful
Heroine” that kept her in the thick of it.
Should’ve been interviewed in her
parents’ home with an attorney present from the start.
@Blink. Is the similar boy you refer to the son of the redhead look alike of Terri
whose picture you
posted here? Iirc the couple did not at that time have residential custody, but there was nothing to stop a visit to a school event open to the public.
No.
B
I appreciate everyone’s responses about the posts I thought disappeared; I posted the question about my missing posts BEFORE both of them subsequently appeared. So not an issue for me.
OT to Rose: several months ago you referred to a program that was a total curriculum. I’ll bet my guess is right–was it the Language! Liteacy program? I taught it for several years middle school applied reading and English classes.
@Rose – Here is PERS information relating to judges. There’s more, but I think this covers key points. You do so much, I thought maybe I could help by posting it so you didn’t have to research it yourself.
PERS is a bit complicated in that it seems like one big plan, but every group working under it seems to have tweaks and perks of their own. In my case, in addition to PERS, PPS had a deal (to cut experienced employees and save money) offering extra money and health benefits if you retired after 15 consecutive years with PPS and were at least 55 or 58 (forgot which). Of course, not all deals are beneficial.
Whether anyone retires or continues, of course, involves a lot of factors and knowledge of personal health and goals. Lately, many have retired who probably would not have because they could see the legislature’s intent to revise and reduce future PERS benefits they have used to plan for their retirement.
I think you will find this article interesting.
Oregon Bar publication – snipped:
In 1943, the Oregon legislature created a retirement plan for Oregon’s supreme court and circuit court judges, the Judges Retirement Fund. Two years later, the legislature created another retirement plan, the Oregon Public Employees Retirement System (PERS), for the state’s public employees. Since judges had their own separate retirement plan, they were not eligible to join PERS. As a result, the judges had no financial interest in the outcome of any PERS case they might hear other than their interest as taxpayers, an interest they shared with all other Oregon taxpayers. Oregon’s judges remained independent regarding PERS for the next 41 years. But that changed in 1983, when HB 2366 was enacted as Chapter 770, Oregon Laws 1983.
Under HB 2366, any person becoming a judge for the first time after Dec. 31, 1983, automatically became a PERS member immediately upon taking office. The only exception was if the new judge was older than 72 when first taking office. This law established a seven percent contribution requirement for each PERS judge member but it also required the state of Oregon to pick up that seven percent contribution for the judges. Judges who had served before December 31, 1983, were given a choice. They could stay in the Judges Retirement Fund or they could join PERS. Every judge who remained in the Judges Retirement Fund would have to pay seven percent of his or her salary into that fund. Every judge who joined PERS, however, would have his or her seven percent contribution picked up by the state of Oregon. That exclusive pick up feature guaranteed that every judge who joined PERS would receive an immediate seven percent salary increase.
HB 2366 not only put the Oregon judges into PERS, it created several unique provisions that applied only to judges. Judges had a seven percent personal PERS contribution but the state was required by statute to pick up that contribution for them. All other PERS members had a six percent personal contribution and while their employer could agree to pick up that contribution, the employer was not required to do so. Judges were the only elected or appointed officials in Oregon who were required by law to join PERS. All other elected or appointed officials had the option to join PERS but they were not required to do so. Judges were also the only persons who became PERS members the instant they took office. All other persons eligible to join PERS, including elected or appointed officials, could not join until they had worked for six months.
After 1983, the judges have had a direct financial interest in the outcome of every PERS case. And, regarding the issue of the pick-up of employee PERS contributions, the judges have had a greater stake in the outcome of that issue than any other PERS members. Unlike the personal interest as taxpayers that the judges had in
PERS before 1984, their interest as PERS members was an interest shared with less than 10 percent of Oregonians.
http://www.osbar.org/publications/bulletin/11dec/parting.html
Snips from Oregon Revised Statutes – PART 1 OF 2 (it’s rather long)
238.505
Judges as PERS members
(1) Except as provided in subsection (2) of this section, a person who is not a judge on December 31, 1983, and who is elected or appointed to the office of judge on or after January 1, 1984, shall become a judge member on the date the person takes the office.
(2) A person who, by reason of the age at which becoming a judge, could not make contributions to the Public Employees Retirement Fund during each of five calendar years as a judge member at or before attaining the age of 75 years shall not become a judge member.
238.515
Contributions
(1)(a) Each judge member shall contribute monthly to the Public Employees Retirement Fund seven percent of the monthly salary of the judge member. The contributions of a judge member and earnings on the contributions shall be credited to the member account of the judge member.
(b) The state shall pick-up, assume or pay the full amount of contributions to the fund required of judge members. The full amount of required judge member contributions picked-up, assumed or paid by the state on behalf of judge members shall be considered salary only for the purpose of computing a judge members final average salary within the meaning of ORS 238.535 (Service retirement allowance) (2) and not for any other purpose. The full amount of required judge member contributions picked-up, assumed or paid by the state on behalf of judge members shall be added to the member account of the judge members and shall be considered judge member contributions for all other purposes of ORS 238.500 (Definitions for ORS 238.500 to 238.585) to 238.585 (Use of creditable service by person who serves as both member and judge member).
(2) The state shall make employer contributions to the fund in respect to judge members as provided in ORS 238.225 (Employer contributions). Notwithstanding ORS 238.227 (Pooling of employers for purpose of computing employer contributions), for the purposes of actuarial computation and contributions of the state under ORS 238.225 (Employer contributions), judge members shall be considered a separate group of employees.
238.525
Compulsory retirement age
A judge member shall be retired from judicial office at the end of the calendar year in which the judge member attains the age of 75 years.
@Rose – continued – Snips from Oregon Revised Statutes – PART 2 OF 2
238.535
Service retirement allowance
(1) Prior to attaining 60 years of age, all judge members shall elect in writing to retire under either paragraph (a) or (b) of this subsection. The election shall be irrevocable after the judge member attains 60 years of age. Any judge member who fails to make the election provided for in this subsection prior to attaining 60 years of age shall be retired under the provisions of paragraph (a) of this subsection.
(a) Upon retiring from service as a judge at the age of 65 years or thereafter, a judge member who has made contributions to the Public Employees Retirement Fund during each of five calendar years shall receive as a service retirement allowance, payable monthly, a life pension (nonrefund) provided by the contributions of the judge member and the state in an annual amount equal to 2.8125 [bad link] percent of final average annual salary multiplied by the number of years of service as a judge not exceeding 16 years of service as a judge and 1.67 [bad link] percent of final average salary multiplied by the number of years of service as a judge exceeding 16 years of service as a judge, but the annual amount shall not exceed 65 percent of final average salary.
(b) Upon retiring from service as a judge at the age of 60 years or thereafter, a judge member who has made contributions to the Public Employees Retirement Fund during each of five calendar years shall receive as a service retirement allowance, payable monthly, a life pension (nonrefund) provided by the contributions of the judge member and the state in an annual amount equal to 3.75 [bad link] percent of final average salary multiplied by the number of years of service as a judge not exceeding 16 years of service as a judge and two percent of final average salary multiplied by the number of years of service as a judge exceeding 16 years of service as a judge, but the annual amount shall not exceed 75 percent of final average salary.
(c) Any judge member electing to retire under paragraph (b) of this subsection shall serve as a pro tem judge, without compensation, for 35 days per year for a period of five years. A judge who serves more than 35 days per year may carry over the additional days to fulfill the pro tem service obligation in future years. The five-year period shall commence on the judge members date of retirement or the date on which the judge member commences pro tem service under ORS 238.545 (Withdrawal of member account) (4), whichever is earlier. Judge members may be reimbursed for expenses incurred in providing pro tem services under this paragraph. Upon certification from the Chief Justice that any judge member who retired under paragraph (b) of this subsection has failed to perform the pro tem services required under this paragraph, and has not been relieved of the obligations to perform those services in the manner provided by this paragraph, the Public Employees Retirement Board shall recalculate the service retirement allowance of the noncomplying judge member as though the judge member elected to retire under paragraph (a) of this subsection, and the noncomplying judge member shall receive only that recalculated amount thereafter. A judge may be relieved of the pro tem service obligation imposed by this paragraph if the judge fails for good cause to complete the obligation. A retired judge member who is relieved of the obligation to serve as a pro tem judge shall continue to receive the retirement allowance provided in paragraph (b) of this subsection.
(d) For the purpose of paragraph (c) of this subsection:
(A) Good cause includes, but is not limited to:
(i) Physical or mental incapacitation of a judge that prevents the judge from discharging the duties of judicial office;
(ii) Failure of the appointing authority to assign a judge to the requisite amount of pro tem service, whether because of insufficient need for pro tem judges, a determination by the appointing authority that the skills of a judge do not match the needs of the courts, clerical mistake, or otherwise; or
(iii) Death of a judge.
(B) Good cause does not include:
(i) A judges refusal, without good cause, to accept pro tem assignments sufficient to meet the required amount; or
(ii) A judges affirmative voluntary act that makes the judge unqualified to serve as a judge of this state including, but not limited to, failure to maintain active membership in the Oregon State Bar, acceptance of a position in another branch of state government, or acceptance of a position in the Government of the United States or of another state or nation.
(e) The Chief Justice may make rules for the implementation of this subsection.
(2) As used in subsection (1) of this section, final average salary means whichever of the following is greater:
(a) The average salary per calendar year paid to a judge member in three of the calendar years of service as a judge before the judge member retires, in which three years the judge member was paid the highest salary.
(b) One-third of the total salary paid to a judge member in the last 36 calendar months of service as a judge before the judge member retires.
(3) As used in subsection (1) of this section, number of years of service means the number of full years plus any remaining fraction of a year. In determining a remaining fraction, a full month shall be considered as one-twelfth of a year and a major fraction of a month shall be considered as a full month.
(4) For a judge who elects to become a judge member as provided in ORS 237.215 (3) (1989 Edition), the service retirement allowance under subsection (1) of this section on retirement at the age of 70 years and either 12 years of service or two full six-year terms as a judge shall be at least the equivalent of the retirement pay the judge would have received had the judge retired under ORS 1.314 to 1.390 (1989 Edition).
(5) A judge member who has made contributions to the Public Employees Retirement Fund during each of five calendar years and who attains the age of 60 years shall be retired upon written application by the judge member to the board on a reduced service retirement allowance that shall be the actuarial equivalent of the service retirement allowance provided for in subsection (1)(a) of this section.
(6) For the purposes of this section, a judge who elects to become a judge member as provided in ORS 237.215 (3) (1989 Edition) shall be considered to have made contributions to the Public Employees Retirement Fund during one calendar year for each calendar year during which the judge made contributions to the Judges Retirement Fund.
(7)(a) Notwithstanding subsection (1)(a) of this section, the maximum percentage used in calculating the annual amount of the life pension (nonrefund) for a judge who is a judge member on September 27, 1987, or who elected to become a judge member in the manner provided by ORS 237.215 (3)(b) or (4)(b) (1989 Edition), shall be the percentage specified by paragraph (b) of this subsection if either:
(A) On September 27, 1987, the judge had more than 28 years of service that were creditable either under the system; or
(B) On September 27, 1987, the judge had more than 28 years of service that were creditable under the Judges Retirement Fund established pursuant to ORS 1.314 to 1.390 (1989 Edition) and the judge became a member of the system under the provisions of ORS 237.215 (3)(b) (1989 Edition).
(b) The maximum percentage used in calculating the annual amount of the life pension (nonrefund) of a judge member who meets the requirements of paragraph (a) of this subsection shall not exceed 45 percent plus 1.67 [bad link] percent multiplied by the number of years of service as a judge that exceed 16 years and that were served on or before September 27, 1987.
(c) In computing the annual amount of the life pension of a judge who meets the requirements of paragraph (a) of this subsection, the board shall use the percentage specified by paragraph (b) of this subsection and the final average salary of the judge computed on the date of retirement, not the final average salary of the judge computed as of September 27, 1987. In making the computation under this subsection, the board shall use the definition of final average salary provided by ORS 238.535 (Service retirement allowance) as amended by section 2, chapter 625, Oregon Laws 1987.
so much for any precedent useful to Bunch.
http://www.morelaw.com/verdicts/case.asp?n=A112960&s=OR&d=24149
5 to 5 on reconsideration & so father’s custody is toast.
Those lil kegislative tweakings by McKnight, Vien,
et al apparently had Committee proposals enacted
& in this case 2001 changes were applied retroactively in this custody case.
—-
Was reading docs on VWoofe but stopped midway thru Engel’s Emerg Response.
Too much angst at one read. All I can envision is Winnie the Pooh, the bear
of very little brain, all impulse,
though goodhearted & well intended.
I have taught at both elementary and middle school; in resource rooms, applied classes for students on IEPs in middle school; and co-teaching in gen.ed. classrooms.
For me, IMO, the issue of Kyron’s coat and backpack being in his classroom on June 4 is a red herring. First of all,teachers do not spend their day scanning to see if a student has left anything behind. Especially on a day like the Science Fair, the teacher would be doing all the regular tasks, plus all the extras brought on by the Science Fair. She would have been extremely busy and engaged in extreme multi-tasking. Even if she did notice the belongings, and she did know it was Kyron’s cubby, and she did immediately recognize the things as belonging to him, AND she had been led to believe that Kyron was leaving school after touring the exhibits with TH, then she would not have said to herself, Oh! Kyron must be in the building! More likely she would have simply thought, Kyron forgot his belongings.
Kids–and parents–forget their stuff all the time. I have seen students older and more mature than Kyron forget their jackets, packs, binders, lunches, etc. day after day, even with reminders; and continue to not claim their things so that at the end of the semester, valuable items in the lost and found are gathered up and donated to a charity. Parents come to school and walk past the items spread out and sometimes still do not claim them.
The point is, that for me, from my perspective, and I could be wrong, the fact that Kyron’s items were left in the classroom and that fact did not prompt his teacher to think that he must still be in the building is neither here nor there. IF–and I said If–TH took part in planning his disappearance, this could have been a way of making it look like she left without him. And I could be wrong! And one more thing…..I might not be right.
In and of itself, I agree with you that kids/parents leave things behind- teachers have a class full of students and in this case with the open school day, all sorts of folks coming in and out, the backpack and coat are not a neon sign to anyone that Kyron went missing in that set of circumstances.
However, let’s talk duty of care. That duty of care is expressly stated in policy while students are in school, period. So upon Tanner P voicing his concerns that Kyron was missing from their “tour group”, and the knowledge he was there earlier combined with Ms. Porter marking him absent by 10am is for me- stimulus to the standard of care in duty to check where he was given the circumstances and the amount of folks moving in and through the school. I realize this school was way behind in it’s contemporary safety measures- but combining Kyron, TMH and Baby K’s attendance earlier, a student voicing concerns about his whereabouts, and lack of any notice he was to be removed or confirmation of same through the office- I strongly feel that someone taking the time to notice his backpack and jacket still being at the school was clearly not a red herring. It cannot be a red herring if he ended up missing, correct?
There are witnesses on the record who saw TMH leave without Kyron- I am not sure how his belongings left behind supports that as a planning issue?
There is something really wrong about why neither DY nor KH ever attempted to hold the school responsible when their child went missing from it.
There is something really wrong- ER about nobody ever asking them that question.
B
Blink…. #22 ain’t gonna make much sense if #19 is still in limbo. LOL. Busy day?
Oye. Everything is up, thanks all for your patience, had to be out of town unexpectedly yesterday and I am way behind.
B
Looking at the first stories on Olive….June, 2010
“Law enforcement officials are searching for any clue to help them discover what happened to the boy, who was last seen Friday morning as he participated in a school science fair.”
“Gates would not comment on statements by a family member and others that Kyron’s backpack and coat were found in his second-floor classroom.
Publicly sharing that kind of detail taints an investigation, Gates said, declining to answer other specific questions.”
10:22 pm … 6/04 KATE MAHAR:
“The boy lives with his father and stepmother. Lindstrand said his mother, who lives out of the area, was on her way here.” (NOTE …. the time…bio mom arrives after midnight? – PTA president, live-in cop, family, friends, FB coordinating of t-shirts, etc….how much sleep did TMH get before that first poly on Saturday?)
“The Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office is leading the search for a missing second-grade boy last seen at his Portland school at midmorning Friday.”
Allen Brettman…6/05
‘Law enforcement officials are searching for any clue to help them discover what happened to the boy, who was last seen Friday morning AS HE participated in a school science fair.”
“Gates would not comment on statements by a family member and others that Kyron’s backpack and coat were found in his second-floor classroom.
Publicly sharing that kind of detail taints an investigation, Gates said, declining to answer other specific questions.”"Law enforcement officials are searching for any clue to help them discover what happened to the boy, who was last seen Friday morning as he participated in a school science fair.”
grasshopper says:
December 27, 2013 at 1:31 pm
(snipped)
What about Kyron? I know people are saying this. None of this has to do with Kyron. Destroying T’s life and ripping a child from her mommy does not help find Kyron. nothing in this divorce helps find Kyron. It’s not that he isn’t important. NOT AT ALL! I realize you still believe T might know where Kyron is, maybe even hope she does to justify all this. I don’t think she does know. I think evidence would have been discovered by now. Even if she did know, it was still the job of LE to figure out what happened, come up with evidence. No point in going over all that again.
=====================================================================
Nothing in this story/case ever prepared me, back in 2010, for the fact that unfolding in front of everyone in the country (if everyone would just pay attention) is a new process, not being slowed down by a judge who should know it should not be happening, of prosecuting a crime, in a civil case, that has not been identified and securing a ‘guilty’ verdict against an adult who has not even been charged with that unidentified crime.
Every mother and father in Oregon should be peeing in their pants about this, but, they aren’t.
This is all starting to remind me of Mel Brooks’ History of the World, Part One, The Spanish Inquisition Scene:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbcyiFt5VEs
what an incredible age.
while preparing family lunch, listening to Tunein Radio WQXR from Newark (Tosca/The Met), all the while googling OR State Sen. Garrett and how often OR legislators pass bills (ie redistricting, or child custody) and then are appointed by Kitz to the OR Court of Appeals to uphold their assigned piece of legislative work, in Garrett’s case after only 13 years as an attorney & limited experience. Love some of these comments: http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/12/oregon_rep_chris_garrett_gets.html#comments
As if Jeb Bush put Boehner (were he qualified) on the DC Fed Bench knowing some piece of his personally directed legislation is about to be adjudicated. I swear, though to left of say Clinton, I’d join the Tea Party in Oregon.
GraceintheHills says:
December 27, 2013 at 6:53
Me- Blink, if there was a child there that day who is a dead ringer for Kyron, that adds another potentially complicating angle to the investigation.
Blink says, I completely agree and it has haunted me from the beginning. I am not sure how that issue was either developed investigatively- or managed as to building a profile or witness corroboration, but it remains a consideration for me to this day. It has to until it can be excluded.
Me: If witnesses have misidentified this child as Kyron, this is a real problem unless there are others who knew Kyron who saw Kyron at the school after TH left.
Me: Irt LE’s questioning of all the other attendees and the timeline that was developed – In my experience, this is not information that LE would typically share with potential witnesses UNLESS LE thought they might gain additional evidence from the witnesses. Do you know if the FBI worked with these witnesses in an attempt to develop a composite? Also, if TH left around 9AM and these witnesses indicate that this male interacted with Kyron between 9:00 and 9:20, that is not very much later in the morning. Could it be that this interaction happened closer to 10:00?
Blink says, The interaction per se is pretty defined. HOWEVER, I agree that Ky sightings took place in the parking lot after he went outside with SZ. Again, I question the witnesses that might have been shown a pic of Kyron, and not assumed it was another boy, except to say there is no question it was Kyron who left the building with him.
Me: as per what LE shared with KH and DY, I agree it was Kyron outside, but it sounded like there was more than one “witness” at that point (there was more than one person in or near the white truck when Kyron was seen there).
Me: In my mind’s eye I see this horrible monster slithering through the hallways looking for his target. If the interaction is as your witnesses described it, Blink, I have a huge problem with a teacher allegedly nodding her approval. Why would any teacher do that? For that matter, why would any perpetrator ask in front of so many witnesses? He could have so easily waited for Kyron to exit the room and enter the hallway.
Blink says, Respectfully Grace, that is an assumption that he did not do that and had to adjust, or that it was not part of the plan to “be seen.”
Me: yes, I agree. Most of our opinions about this case are based on assumptions because we have so few facts. At this point, with so few corroborated facts, I still question that it was this person who abducted Kyron.
From 19 still in moderation…..@Blink
Here are the two most recent Orders from Kantor. I’ve never seen a “draft” of an Order show up in the files.
http://vwoolfexploresthenorthwest.blogspot.com/
(AND an Engels doc referring to CM’s depo).
xoxoxo….
@Rose
One heck of a “retirement” party, one year ago. Bet the bunch of them had a lot to celebrate with those PERS salaries for life, and the double dipping. Looks like Shrunk may have officially retired nearly a decade before. That’s a LOT of double-dipping.
The shift from finding Kyron to protecting Terri’s rights isn’t necessarily a negative. If viewed objectively the two are a window into investigations that LE officers must balance every day.
It is much easier to perpetrate a crime than it is to solve one, especially in the case of a missing person. Many times the public wonders why LE has not made an arrest yet, and many time it seems obvious who the perpetrator is. The list of such cases is long indeed. When a POI later goes on to harm others it is usually LE who are blamed for not making an arrest sooner, before the second crime could be committed.
It’s precarious and each case so different in core and nuances that making rules to fit all cases is that much more difficult. It’s also why investigators are given some leeway when interviewing (lies stated to illicit information) and keeping strategy and evidence protected.
There are two assumptions at play here. One is LE never had the evidence to suspect Terri or to ever believe she could be prosecuted. The other is on good faith LE did and does have enough to suspect her but not enough to convict.
Factoring in that a mother and daughter relationship has been severed and it’s clear why some take pause with the system and how its’ being used here.
I suspect there isn’t a lot different in Portland than in so many cities across our country. The politics, favors, and intrigue are not unique, IMO, maybe even worse elsewhere so here we have another issue that rightly should be spotlighted.
What it all boils down to, though, is did she or didn’t she? How long do we give investigators to say publicly that they simply don’t know or they are ‘this’ much sure and why? Do we hold them accountable for the public’s perception of Terri Horman? She certainly contributed to that herself in some ways. We can’t hold Kaine accountable… freedom of speech, under the circumstances, etc…
IF Houze is to fight the ‘good’ fight his only route is take it up with LE directly. He cannot take it up with Rudy, Kaine, or anyone else. It is LE who had direct contact with Terri, LE who know the evidence gathered thus far, LE who chose how to share the information with the bios, and LE who presented fliers with Terri’s picture on it.
IMO, MCSO is going to have to release some of what they know to protect their investigation. I know it’s counter intuitive but that is what it might all come down to whether in the public arena or in a higher court.
That could be the ball Houze has had his eye on the entire time, thereby allowing so many years to pass which gave him a more firm platform to stand on and which, IMO, made longer the time Terri was kept from her child.
Everyone has an agenda and as I said before, Kyron is at the forefront of so few of them.
There is one other important factor: how and when do investigators share information with the family of a missing person?
I for one would want to know everything LE knows. It would pain me to kept in the dark. Will this case change that for future families?
AMOO, but this whole case needs a change of venue, not just a change in judges. PPS, MCSO, MCDA’s as well as the entirety of Multnomah County have much at stake here should it turn out that Terri Horman is innocent. (I don’t know whether she is or not, btw.) What I do know is TMH has not been given fair treatment to date, and I don’t see it getting any better. I also think this is hampering the investigation into Kyron’s disappearance.
I totally agree with Grasshopper & NelMel, we should all be concerned over what has/is being done here.
I often wonder why not one reporter has brought up the civil rights and constitutionality of what’s going on in this case. The whole mess going on in the courts is showing up and being discussed on just about every family court attorney’s websites I’ve looked at.
Shouldn’t that be telling us something? Shouldn’t it be telling the Bernsteins, Iboshis and other reporters out there the significance of all of this? The significance of the Multnomah County DA’s office involved in a child custody battle, without so much as a CPS eval? Boggles my mind, that this part seems to be totally ignored in the news. Why is that?
Personally, I don’t understand how they’re getting away with any of it, but I do see Multnomah County stands to lose a lot, if Terri Horman is innocent. I can’t be the only one who sees that. So I see a possible conflict of interest in MCSO continuing the investigation of Kyron’s disappearance. They have put themselves in a very precarious situation. IF Terri is innocent, is it not in their best interest at this point to continue to persecute her and keep the status quo in order avoid being sued by said innocent party? IMO, this, this is what has caused Kyron’s case to stagnate and turn cold. JMO, but I don’t think, at this point, they can look at any other possible perp, the outcome for them would not be a good one.
I hate to think is what is going on, but it’s the only thing that makes sense of the DA’s involvement in the dissolution at this point, even though he was told to butt out. Kyron’s investigation needs a new leader. As does the MFH investigation, if there even is one. The dissolution should be taking place in a different county or perhaps state.
Like I said, AMOO, but the circus in the courts needs to stop. The best way to do that I’m thinking is a change of venue for all.