McStay Family Murdered: Will Desert Graves Yield Their Killers?
Deserted in the Desert
Gianni Family Photo
Gianni Martelli McStay had rock star hair at only 4years old. His little brother Joseph, affectionately nicknamed Chubba- did as well. They both rocked a beanie like no other little dudes.
Chubba Family Photo
Gianni and Chubba were as inseparable in life as they were in death when they were recovered in a shallow grave in the Mojave Desert on November 11.
Their parents, Joseph, 40 and Summer McStay, 43, were located in a separate grave nearby.
A 3rd gravesite was found-but empty. A protected source not authorized to speak to the media has confirmed that at least one of the parent’s remains was bound by an electrical cord.
While formal DNA comparisons and autopsy protocols are pending, the manner of death in all four victims have been declared homicides.
Just about 50 yards off the intersection of Route 15 and Quarry Rd the family that San Diego County Sheriff’s Department (SDCSD) believed was “likely” voluntarily missing on their own and living in Mexico, was recovered in a 30 hour excavation process. An off road motorcycle enthusiast called the San Bernardino County Sheriff when he came across what he suspected was human remains.
Last April SDCSD forwarded the McStay case to the FBI based on their conclusions that the McStay’s had McGone to Mexico, following a lengthy complaint of their handling of the case by Patrick McStay, Joseph’s Father. Troy Dugal, previous lead investigator of the McStay case, appeared on several news and cable television programs over the last three years explaining there was “overwhelming” circumstantial evidence the family of four that was pictured crossing the border into Tijuana, Mexico the evening of February 8th, 2010 was in fact, the McStays.
Following the recovery, San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Office will maintain jurisdiction of the investigation.
Frenemies.. Frenethieves.. Friends.. Family or Cartel?
Who brutally murders innocent children and dumps them in a hole they dug in the desert?
Logically- someone who is very familiar with the area. Of course it is just as shocking and horrific to murder anyone, but it takes a specific brand of evil to murder a baby. Make that two.
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that either Joseph or Summer McStay had any ties to drugs, associates with ties to drugs or cartel, at any time. None.
Contrary to a top selling book on the case, “No Goodbyes” by Rick Baker, there has never been any evidence whatsoever that Summer McStay was some sort of closeted psychotic and homicidal type. The book goes on to malign members of both Joseph and Summer’s families and in some cases outright accuses same of extortion or stealing. Baker’s subsequent public theory is that Summer murdered Joseph and everyone should be looking for her and the boys in Mexico.
Not surprisingly , Baker has requested Amazon pull his book from available stock and has offered refunds to prior purchases. Popular online sleuth sites previously promoting “No Goodbye’s” have since either deleted it’s hundreds of posts endorsing Baker, or moved them to a member’s only private viewing area.
Albeit obtusely, Baker does touch on a troubling and serious abuse allegation concerning Joseph McStay’s oldest son from his first marriage, Jonah, and his step-father, Michael McFadden. He writes summer filed a complaint with Child Protective Services after she and Joseph recorded a conversation with Jonah and placed a copy of same with a private party for safekeeping. Blinkoncrime.com has been able to independently verify that is accurate, but that the investigation was not known to be completed until shortly after the McStay’s disappearance. Under California probate law, Jonah would be an heir to the McStay estate or as otherwise provisioned in the instance of an existing will.
Interviewed by Laura Ling for E! Investigation, Joseph McStay’s web administrator Dan Kavanaugh claims he was the first to become concerned. In Baker’s book, he refers to him as a suspect and details how he alleges he was funneling cash from McStay’s business account before he or anyone else knew the family was missing. Kavanaugh has an unrelated open criminal matter in San Diego County according to court records.
Chase Merritt- Joseph McStay’s business partner in his water fountain design and installation business was the last number ever dialed from his phone at 8:28PM on February 4th. Merritt joined McStay in a lunch meeting earlier that afternoon where they discussed a proposal for a very large car wash chain to feature custom fountains in each facility. According to family friend MacCargar McGyver, McStay was very excited about the opportunity. Merritt claims he passed a voluntary lie detector test, and that he was adamant that Joseph McStay would never have taken his family to Mexico and has always believed they met with foul play.
McGYver spent several days leading up to February 4th at the McStay home due to a painter Summer hired not returning to complete the job. McGyver introduced Summer and Joseph and by all accounts was a close confidant of the couple.
Patrick McStay, Joseph’s Father living in Texas has had some harsh words for the investigation into the disappearance of his son, daughter in law and grandsons.
“…most botched, inept investigation I’ve ever seen in my entire life.”
He also believes very strongly that the list of suspects with motive to kill his family members is very short. Three, to be exact.
He said the department didn’t even bother to contact him to tell him his son’s remains had been found.
“I got a message from someone [on Thursday] on Facebook telling me to go and read an article,” McStay said. “The minute I read the article, I knew it was him.”
“I have exhausted and have so much information on three possible persons of interest. All have a motive.”
The three individuals are not connected to each other, but all of them seem like likely candidates. Patrick says one of them seems to be a particularly likely suspect: he’s a wealthy man with a long rap sheet that includes charges of attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon and burglary. McStay says he, too, has a motive for killing his son.
Although Mr. McStay did not reference him by name, he may be referring to Michael James McFadden, who was arrested in July 1998 and charged with attempted murder and a litany of other felonies including great bodily harm to a child:
459/460(a) PC – Burglary 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Assault 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
273.5(a) PC – Domestic Violence 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
12022.7(d) PC – Infliction of great bodily injury on a child under the age of five … 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Assault 07/16/1999 02/25/2000 Dismissed
240 PC – Attempt to inflict violent force on another person. 07/16/1999 02/25/2000 Dismissed
245(a)(1) PC – Assault with a deadly weapon other than a firearm 07/16/1998 01/18/2000 Pled Guilty
12022.7(d) PC – Infliction of great bodily injury on a child under the age of five… 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Criminal Terrorist Threat 07/16/1999 01/18/2000 Pled Guilty
664-187 PC – Attempted Murder 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
You will note some of the charges are from 1998, others 1999 on the anniversary date, McFadden successfully negotiated a plea agreement and only pled to criminal terroristic threats and assault with a deadly weapon other than a firearm. Both felonies.
In the complaint he lodged against the detectives in SDCSD, Patrick McStay specifically references failure to interview key suspects he provided to LE directly.
Given the location of the bodies, it would seem that whoever is responsible would at least want investigators to think McFadden was involved. As a self-proclaimed mountain bike “racer”, McFadden has participated in several bike events in various locations all along the Route 15 Mojave corridor. SBCSO says they will be re-interviewing everyone in the case and have no suspects.
There have been no named suspects to date and the investigation is ongoing. Memorial or Funeral arrangements for the McStay’s have not yet been announced . LATE EDIT: The family and friends of the McStay family will gather at the grave site in Victorville, on Joseph’s McStay’s birthday.
To be continued in Part 2: Analysis of the last day of their lives points to involvement by someone they knew.
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Happy to see you are writing on this case Blink- Good to see your analytical skills front and center
I hope in part 2 you will cover the supposed Mcstay tape from the border and the rest.
Who kills innocent little boys and Mom and Dad but chooses to leave the dogs alive
It seems Somebody sure went to alot of trouble to point the investigation in the wrong directions
My prayers to all-
May LE get it right now -The family deserves it
AJMO
Peace
Thank you Mom 3.0, you got that right. I feel like I am bashing LE left and right these days and I so hate that feeling- but the reality is, there is a heavy liability with making the comment that you think it “likely” the McStay’s were on that tape- especially when all the evidence I have seen disproves that, and the weight of the family and close friends was basically ignored.
I could live with “we don’t know”, but it really was a disservice to have such a conclusion because people stop looking. I plan to analyze the events and interactions of June 4th, specific evidence break that down. To know what this family has been going through all along- adamant they were not being listened to- to find out they were right is just breaking my heart.
I lost someone close to me in a case recently who absolutely went through Hell on Earth to get her daughters killer behind bars and for me, there now has to be more emphasis on the victims left behind and treatment of them in the process. ( note LE was spectacular in that case, not the problem)
B
thank you so much for covering this blink.
from the person identified in this article (McFadden) that it’s pretty clear the McStay’s feel should be looked at, i tend to agree that he makes the most sense out of anyone the public is aware of at this time. i feel like the other two who worked for JM would have more to lose than gain from the McStay’s disappearance. if we are going to follow the finances, as well as any possible insurance money, it would clearly go to the next of kin, and with Summer and the two little angels savagely murdered as well, the next of kin would be JM’s oldest son from his previous marriage. Couple that with the CPS allegations, and it could push someone with a propensity towards violence and anger over the edge. i think the location the family’s remains were found at also fits with this. I wonder if McFadden has an alibi for the night the family disappeared, and i mean a real alibi, not just his wife saying he was home with her.
i wonder if theres a reason a third grave was dug, or if the perp figured he wouldn’t be able to fit the family into two graves (sorry a morbid thought i feel bad even posting it). maybe he figured one for each adult and one for the children. i just hope this is solved soon
I did not put this in the piece, but there is some question as to whether Joe McStay is Jonah’s actual biological father. Legally, for probate purposes he would be either way. There absolutely was a reason for a third grave that was empty.
B
could the third grave have been for the dogs so that neighbors weren’t alerted to them barking after not having food/water? or is that too ridiculous? maybe the perp planned on going back for them but that plan was foiled after he murdered the family, and decided to just go with putting the car near the mexican border?
The accomplice or the intended party that did not work out, or a message should the graves be discovered. Personally, I don’t think hurting the animals was ever in the plan-again another level of criminal sophistication with knowledge of victim control.
B
Oh dear GOD! I was so hoping you’d write about this family. This is the first ive heard about an empty grave. It feels so weird. This poor family. Thank God they were found!
Was there any evidence ever recovered from their home or vehicle(s), i.e. computers, phone records. I also thought I read somewhere they had a large, untouched bank account. How sad to think someone out there killed this couple and those two adorable kids. Sick.
Yes. Will expand in part 2, but to answer your query- their personal accounts were not touched.
B
When I read about the recovery, my impression was the murders were planned & were effected by someone they knew. As for the car, that was so obviously staged as dumped in a busy transient area as to be discountable wrt to victims’ whereabouts. A family going to MX who’d driven to the border, would go on & drive across the border. A killer could not afford to drive across the border. He was probably hoping it would be stolen.
BTW, you use the word accomplice.
Supposing a gun, and children at risk,
do you think an accomplice necessary?
I do preliminarily, yes.
B
Any disgruntled employees (those stone layers)?
Unsophisticated (and really a personal motif) to kill 4
without working in tapping some of the bank account
while you’re at it.
Very personal when you have a person of means, agreed.
B
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2510247/Prime-suspect-McStay-murder-mystery-breaks-silence.html
Talk about a guy with no motive.
B
All the best with this one Blink.
This crime appeals to me as one of unimaginable hatred.
I cannot imagine the type of monster that would murder two toddlers.
I saw a CNN clip where the reporter (at the grave site) said a weapon was used but she wasn’t told what that was and that something was buried with the bodies.
Maybe the weapon?
I hope so because LE badly need a break in this case.
Looking forward to part 2.
As I wrote, so far all I am aware of to date is that one of the parents hands were bound with an electrical cord of some kind. Investigatively on it’s own that would be interpreted into the unsophisticated and unplanned category if it came from the home or vehicle of the decedants- If not, it could be an effort to plant evidence pointing to the owner. At this point it’s best relevance is to who was tied with it and how (potentially).
My other observation is that the graves are shallow, and fairly close together.
With much respect to this dear family- I am somewhat of a study on animal predation and decomposition and I am flummoxed as to why these graves are basically undisturbed until recently. According to the sheriff the majority of the remains were intact. This is an offender’s breaking bad official screen offering.
B
Blink says:Thank you Mom 3.0, you got that right. I feel like I am bashing LE left and right these days and I so hate that feeling-
- me
Blink I understand your feelings- I have felt that way too since the WM3 case- perhaps that is why in Kyrons case I am so reluctant to call LE out at this point in time since No one has been charged and there is an ongoing grand jury and so on…
I mean I fully understand how LE can make horrible huge mistakes and this may lead them to arrest an innocent person or wrongly focus on an innocent person and still in other cases it may lead the guilty to walk free on an alford plea- or remain free like Sketch –
in other words it leads us all to question every aspect of the case and this is never good for the victims or for justice
Blink, its not easy to criticize LE or the prosecution – but with hindsight sometimes it just becomes apparent then you get into the coulda woulda shouldas take the chloroform theory in the Caylee case
Blink, I think you are working from the lets do better next time stance in all cases -and who can fault you for always looking for the best way to ensure the victim/S is “heard” and LE is “listening”?
IMO your criticism is never just to gripe but it is how you try to help….
So thank you
—
You wrote:
but the reality is, there is a heavy liability with making the comment that you think it “likely” the McStay’s were on that tape- especially when all the evidence I have seen disproves that, and the weight of the family and close friends was basically ignored.
-
Yes, i aghree as it seems like LE missed the mark –
ps-I couldnt believe that LE did not call to warn the family before the possible news or worse the identities were released that is horrible..
You-
I could live with “we don’t know”, but it really was a disservice to have such a conclusion because people stop looking.
Agreed and it seems they tore down the mom who was another victim so sad- and I understand this is why you feel the way you do in Kyrons case….
I understand there are somethings that can never be taken back even those things which were done or said with the best of intentions with the best info or intel at the time which later proved to be false…. Sometimes LE are damned no matter where they turn sometimes where the “evidence ” points is not really a straight path to the BG and in some instances turns out to be bogus evidence…yet it cuts through the innocent and the “innocence” only becomes apparent with hindsight and countering new info…Its a shame… so yes i am glad you are here to warn us all to walk lightly and try to reserve judgement till all is known…
You
I plan to analyze the events and interactions of June 4th, specific evidence break that down. To know what this family has been going through all along- adamant they were not being listened to- to find out they were right is just breaking my heart.
–Thankyou Blink, I am glad you are here to tell “the rest of the story” sometimes that is all we can hope for until the perp is caught- This family deserves to be heard and the victims deserve to be mourned by all – I look forward to your analysis.
You-
I lost someone close to me in a case recently who absolutely went through Hell on Earth to get her daughters killer behind bars and for me, there now has to be more emphasis on the victims left behind and treatment of them in the process. ( note LE was spectacular in that case, not the problem)
B
—I am so sad to read this Blink my condolences
I am happy to know that her daughters killer is behind bars with LEs help
I agree “there now has to be more emphasis on the victims left behind and treatment of them in the process.”
I am glad they have you here to share their sides–even in instances where I may appear to disagree…
I am still glad that you are here to lay it on the line
I am glad that you are not afraid to speak your mind and your heart and tell the other side of the story or better yet allow the person friends and family to tell their story
as it all helps to ensure it is “better” the next time in the next case…
Keep fighting the good fight Blink
AJMO
Peace
Thank you and thank your for your continued advocacy. For what it is worth I have mentioned that I just spent a week with a class full of LE and prosecution assets as the only civilian analyst. I can say without reservation that a great deal of the problem is usually lack of budget or supervision wrt to training of investigators. If this was a corporation- we would refer to it as setting up our employees to fail by not providing adequate continued education and best practices. In conjunction, in many jurisdictions the relationships between LE and the prosecution can be a problem as well. I have seen this improve recently in some cases and I have seen an example of an abysmal failure in some of my private practice work.
In any event, it has been my experience in any LE interactions I have had, for the most part, they are aware of the issues and eager to improve. Let’s face it, they are underpaid and have a very high stress job and they are public servants to boot. Add to it the sudden onset of a high profile case they will get once in their lifetime- High media coverages changes investigations for the good and bad- but mostly bad as far as detectives go. Ask Yuri, lol.
Sorry for the length, but it is an important topic area for me and in the McStay case, where the victims family has already filed complaints that for the most part could not be decided due to the investigative file being open and proprietary- I feel strongly that they deserve vindication for their theories and fears they did not get. It matters to them more than ever now.
I do believe that San Bernardino County in conjunction with the FBI is managing the familial relationship appropriately going forward.
B
Good morning Blink and Blinksters. I am so glad you are writing about this case, Blink. I have been following this case since this family disappeared, and had almost given up hope they would ever be found. Such a tragedy for their family!
Now that their remains have been recovered, I have a strong hunch this case will be solved fairly quickly. I have always wondered what would make a family suddenly leave their home, leaving eggs out on the counter. There were a lot of calls to the business partner that day, including one after the McStays left their home. I am not pointing a finger at anyone at this time, but I do think whatever evidence was developed by the SDCSD will be used by the San Bernardino LE and the FBI (along with whatever new evidence can be developed now) to find the perp(s). My understanding is that although the FBI was not the lead LEA on this case, they have been involved since the beginning.
The dogs were not killed because the crime did not occur at the home. A neighbor’s security camera caught the McStays and the two little boys leaving the home at around 7:45 that evening. No one else was captured on the camera. I suspect they were lured from their home by whoever killed them. Imo, this is not an unsophisticated perp. My DH, who has been following this case, too, thinks the graves were dug prior to the murders.
Praying for the family and friends today and hoping they eventually see justice served.
I sincerely hope you are right Grace, I have concerns this will be solved quickly due to the fact that in the beginning, LE was very challenged to get a great deal of subpoenas in this case as it was treated as a voluntary disappearance. This not only made it difficult for Le, but because they themselves were limited to prove their own theory about them going to mexico, it did not give weight for enhanced interviews of POI’s and I fear much of that data is going to be very difficult to reproduce. To my knowledge, they could not even get a subpoena for the texts and their phone records were limited.
I do believe strongly that Mr. McFadden and any associates he has will be facing extreme scrutiny and given his step-son’s entire family was just found brutally murdered, I certainly hope he will do what he can to assist LE, and of course I hope they have arranged for a therapeutic setting to help Jonah through this time. Not pointing a finger here but I will say something in particular about the way the family was found relates to a threat Patrick McStay says McFadden made to Joe McStay.
B
If Chase is truthful (and I like his interview), Mike & mother took an inordinate and unusual
amount of time, and pressure, to check on the family. Imo they were not close.
Thank you Blink for your long reply to Mom3.0. Most us who post on this site hold the same views regarding LE. I have many friends and some family who work in LE. To just attack without reason does not solve the problem.
Money, training and leadership help to solve the problem. Often it is not just money, but how the money is poorly spent that causes the problem. Many in LE are good people without good educations(meaning limited education) that try their best and it is often not good enough.
Criminals are sometimes very smart and that makes them difficult to identify and get them into custody.
In this case, the money trail is IMO going to be the key. To off two adults and two children cannot be done without help. I think there are two perps involved.
ATG- I edited the last line of your post as Jonah (Joseph’s firstborn) would have been about 12 on February 4, 2010.
It has occurred to me that whoever dug the graves might have had no idea what they were digging them for until after-
I wish I agreed with you about the money trail, although it may be a factor tangenitally. As in, it exchanges hands between a suspect and their hired asset.
B
Thanks Blink for your effort to write on this case.
What kind of animal could hold so much hate to kill an entire family and leave them in the desert to be destroyed by the environment?
Personal, yes, but the level of this crime is horrific to say the least.
Well Blink, you got me interested!!
IMHO , the extra grave lends creedence to the idea that this involved more than one person to execute the crime. One person to get the people from their house, another person to prep the graves for immediate disposal; of bodies. In any scenario, it was planned and graves pre dug.The grave digger anticipated needing three, it was only after the fact that they could dispose of bodies in two graves instead of three graves. Think of time involved with need to cover evidence quickly.
In the interest of going undetected for a crime, time is of the essence. Having dead people there WHILE you dig graves takes time.Digging big holes in broad daylight in an area used by off road bikers could alert suspicion also. Most efficient way could be to have one person digging holes while family is getting rousted from their house. Using ONLY my imagination, I could picture a scenario of one person digging the graves while other person went to house and took the family by gunpoint. Another scenario: kids taken and parents directed to the desert to get them. But I emphasize, this is only my imagination at work here.
Any analysis of dead bodies to determine date of death? Any analysis results that would show IF the murder took place at gravesite or in another location?
They say bodies were mostly intact- meaning the skeletal remains or including flesh?
Hopefully method and date of death can be discerned. What I understand from articles is that the father was bound by electrical cord, but dies not say strangulation. Could a gunshot be ELIMINATED as cause of death by autopsy?.
Makes me think that if the killer had a gun , he would know it could be traced to him. So he used the gun to get the family out of the house, used another method to kill?
Info that neighbors camera detect what MAY be bottom of family car leaving driveway? Any info on any other vehicles picked up by neighbor security camera? Killer could have taken one or more family members ( kids are easier to grab), forcing rest of family to follow in car…. this would put the keys to the car in the killer(s) hands, enabling them to drop it off near Mex Border.
Why does someone leave food on the counter? Logic says it is because they were forced to leave quickly. Analysis of crime scene- I don’t recall any mention of forced entry.
Incidental”
last ( unanswered) call to Merrit was 8:28p.m.- just when it is getting dark in June in California. The killing and burial logically would take place at night, under any circumstances.
Method of execution? What I understand from articles is that the father was bound by electrical cord, but does not give cause of death. Bodies may be too old to tell. Could a gunshot be ELIMINATED as cause of death by autopsy?.
Makes me think that if the killer had a gun , he would know it could be traced to him. So he only used the gun to get the family out of the house, used another method to kill. To me, logic says that minus being at gunpoint, the way to get an entire family out of a house is to take the kids hostage first.
Makes sense that killer(s) had enough knowledge of family to know about their connection with Mexico… and that by leaving the car near the border, it would lead to conclusion the family had gone there.
As far as footage of family going over border, don’t they keep records of who crosses, isn’t a passport needed? Here is a link that shows the law concerning necessary id for crossing the border from California.
http://tijuanatales.wordpress.com/2008/01/02/do-i-need-a-passport-to-cross-into-tijuana/
At minimum, a drivers liscence is needed for person over 19. 18 and under, you need a birth certificate.
Thats a lot of fake ID if indeed the family crossed at all.
Regarding the above link and ability to forego drivers liscence, passport, birth certificate= that IS possible if you have a pass called a ” Sentri” or other same type of previously acquired border crossing ID. Wouldn’t it be easy to check if the McStay family had such a document already?
Whoever the people are who got the family out of the house knew enough to know where the family would be at that specific time. No way would this be attempted without a plan.
Personal banking accounts:
If money was part of motivation, clearly killer(s) was unable to coerce McAtsy into providing or arrange unhindered access to personal account. Jonah McFadden legal heir, if family dead, he gets $$.
Any info on the source of money put into personal account- where did that $$ come from and who else would know about it?
Personal banking accounts:
If money was part of motivation, clearly killer(s) was unable to coerce McAtsy into providing or arrange unhindered access to personal account. Jonah McFadden legal heir, if family dead, he gets $$.
Jonah mcFadden is 19, a minor. His step father would be technically the trustee for any inherited money.
If there was an ongoing problem with McFaddens current to the time of disappearance, what has been done to investigate height breadth and depth of their alibis?
As I said, you got me interested Blink. Hope my post isn’t too rambling to follow- Looking forward to your next piece.
I re read and saw some repeats in my post- a lot of copy and pasting to try to present my thoughts in readable order- applies for repetitions!
ok jonah would have been 12 , ,hope the grave wasnt for him. isnt it really hard to dig a grave ,even shallow ? just curious why the perp(s) would put two adults in the same grave ,it wouldnt seem to be efficient use of the space .it you want it to stay covered . did weather unearth the remains?
Rose says:
November 21, 2013 at 4:11 am
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2510247/Prime-suspect-McStay-murder-mystery-breaks-silence.html
Talk about a guy with no motive.
B
BLink-
Merrit says that they had a huge job coming up in Saudi Arabia- he offers this as a resin why McStay wouldn’t disappear .
QUESTION:
do we know if Merrit ended up taking the high paying job he refers to in this article?
ow much did Merrit profit by becoming sole owner of the company after MCstay death?
Merrit describes Summer as jealous and controlling. That makes Summer a common enemy of both Merrit and McFadden.
What is relationship of McFadden and Merrit. Any tracking interaction before and after crime?
I don’t think someone being jealous and controlling makes them an enemy of her husbands business partner, and if the information is true that Heather McFadden would frequent the McStay home I can’t see that occurring if Summer is this overly jealous woman.
This was not some sort of ransom or extortion attempt gone wrong. This was a hit to include little children, the entire family where the children were buried separately from the parents. That is a statement about the relationship between the offender and the victims.
B
merritt ‘s comments seem money centric to me .after reading his story.and mulling it over, i suspect .that merrit the artisan vendor ,wanted a biger cut from the new foreign deals, or a partnership merger with mcshay(his distrubitor(the retaler.who gets a mark up )or he needed a loan ,to buy the material to manufactuire the fountains. joseph discussed it w/his wife ,she baulked ,and they went to merrit’s house to discuss , her manner wasnt the best ,(he doesnt show a lot of love for her). he made joseph choose. joseph choose his wife;s side ,which is why he was allowed to be buried with her.his comments seem inconsient to me – he went brankrupt, because his distributor died? they already had the deal with the saudi’s ,he could honor that deal .and get a new distibutor. mc fadden;s motive would be obvious .not really seeing a motive for the brother. just speculating.
Could there have been only 3 intended victims initially? IDK- just throwing it out there. That, or a 5th.
Great question Eloise. For me, the empty grave and the content of the other 2 tells a story.
B
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2510668/Sherilyn-Jamisons-mother-believes-cult-murdered-Oklahoma-family-2009.html
How odd that this family that went missing 10/09 bodies were found this week.
*******
The phone call at 8:28PM on Feb.4th to Mr. Merritt happened after the neighbor’s video saw the families vehicle leaving the home somewhere around 7:45. When I look at the media coverage they indicate that Joseph made a call to his partner about work…however in the UK Mail article linked by Rose, it says that Mr. Merritt did not answer the phone. I have to wonder if a message was left on his phone by any of the McStays. Why was the phone call made to Mr. Merritt. Is it possible that the lure had something to do with meeting him and the family was checking as to why he was not there to meet him?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2510247/Prime-suspect-McStay-murder-mystery-breaks-silence.html
I know Ode, right? Universe is making a statement.
B
My other observation is that the graves are shallow, and fairly close together.
With much respect to this dear family- I am somewhat of a study on animal predation and decomposition and I am flummoxed as to why these graves are basically undisturbed until recently. According to the sheriff the majority of the remains were intact. This is an offender’s breaking bad official screen offering.
B
**********
Blink would lime or another chemical put over the bodies leave the skeleton intact and discourage predators?
Broad question Ode- but a great one. Glad to see you weigh in on this case.
It is not my intention to get into an analysis based on speculative info, but a few assumptions are in order.
I am going to be a tad abstract because the autopsy protocol is not available to me. In a post mortem setting- desert burial- due to the lack of humidity one typically sees mummification v putrification. That said, the post mortem interval here is definitely going to be expansive and include an anthro study.
Without access to that so far, my biggest concern is what I opined earlier- the lack of animal predation with intact skeletal remains.
It is incongruent with a desert decompositional event in either grave without chemical intervention or contamination, imo.
That crime scene info is pivotal.
B
Larry and Blink
If graves were undisturbed until now it seems to me that after a year and lackluster police work not leading to graves maybe the heir to the McStay fortune now NEEDED the bodies found? It may take years to get that many people declared dead, right? If not forced by gun and thugs then the only thing that would make me stop in the middle of cooking supper and gather my child and hubby would be an emergency situation of a family member! My home would look as if I was coming right back if left for that situation, no? Maybe a friend of Mr. McS’s eldest sond walked up to the home unnoticed and said his son was in trouble and to please come right away, hurry, he needs help? I would drop EVERYTHING for my child!
Was the abuse charge against the Son and Stepdad or just one of them?
Great question, I believe it was against the Step-Dad.
B
Who is Jonah’s mother and who is she married to now, where does she live?
BTW,this fountain business appears to be one where decorative sand and cement are shipped from Taiwan and the Philippines……whats in the bags with the sand?
Well then Blink that sounds like the bodies haven’t been there the whole time.
RE:
Ode says:
November 21, 2013 at 8:40 pm
Blinks says in part~
Without access to that so far, my biggest concern is what I opined earlier- the lack of animal predation with intact skeletal remains.
It is incongruent with a desert decompositional event in either grave without chemical intervention or contamination, imo.
That crime scene info is pivotal.
B
Maybe 24hrDemolitionMan of Std Industries has an opinion.
TY and welcome Tea.
B
@susanm. Wasn’t he watching tv with girlfriend at the time, & didn’t
answer a call? easy to verify with her back then.
wife and yes.
B
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2511190/Mystery-digger-track-marks-McStay-family-grave-site.html#comments-2511190
Comment from “Sacramento”
There is no doubt in my mind a local person is involved in some capacity. As I said previously, they may not have realized what the holes were dug for- it is not uncommon to learn about folks burying silver ( a la Ted Binion) or generators, etc.
Or.. other.
I also strongly believe that Mike McStay was advised to engage the local community in erecting the crosses at the site and making that memorial public for investigative purposes. It is pretty standard protocol in this type of case. I believe there are boots on the ground so to speak.
I expect to see all kinds of online garbage denouncing the Mcstay family and I suspect some of it will be intended to divert attention- y’all know how I feel about that.
The reality is the suspect list is going to be very short and I don’t expect any “bombshells.” I do have a concern for further violence if this is not wrapped up pretty quickly. I cannot think of a more brutal crime at the moment than what happened to this family and more specifically innocent babies. Haunts me.
B
Lots of Mc names for me to keep straight…
Is it as simple as it being Jonah’s step father, angry at Summer and Joe for reporting the abuse as well as thinking Jonah would inherit everything from the McStay’s estate if their 2 young McStay boys were also killed.
I don’t know about insurance policies, but I don’t see that as a motive per se.
B
Blink, I too am glad you covering this case. Do you think it’s possible that the family walking across the border was a plant?
No, although I think it is tempting consider it. It is my personal belief if one studied that border for the week span at the time, there was probably 50 families that fit a general description under that grainy dark video.
B
As Blink suggested, the lack of animal predation is peculiar. I recently watched the NatGeo specials on the differing climates and regions of North America. One of the shows focused on the vast desert landscape, including Death Valley(which isnt far from here). One thing was clear(and pardon my insensitivity), with the lack of food available, these shallow graves would have certainly become a very attractive spot.
I’ve been trying to think about what would make me drop everything and run out the door… Family emergency is the only thing that comes to mind.. “Your Mom was in a car accident” kind of thing.
My hunch is LE does not have this timeline down correctly yet.
B
wrt familiarity with local streets,
Who hauled cement from this cement quarry?
http://mines.findthedata.org/l/7058/Black-Mountain-Quarry
http://photos.sbsun.com/2013/11/human-remains-found-in-multiple-grave-sites-near-victorville/
What is the proposed E220 corrider?
This looks like an area under development due to Hwy proximity:
http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18074031/Quarry-Rd-Stoddard-Wells-Victorville-CA/
Is this intersection where the bodies were buried busy with car, foot, cycle traffic? I just don’t see how you dig graves and drop bodies in the light of day or in the dark of night. Wouldn’t this have drawn attention to someone?
It is absolutely not a high traffic area. As far as distance from road access, however, it is no more than 50 ft. My take away from that is just enough to use headlights if necessary, and to get back on a trailer. If the graves were dug mechanically- I lean toward whoever dug them did not know in advance of their intended use.
B
Useful post by Tea on 11/18/13.
http://seanmunger.com/2013/08/29/disappeared-the-mcstay-family-missing-3-years-and-my-review-of-the-book-no-goodbyes/
Interesting a reenie writes the identical accusatory content of brother
as the poster from Sacramento in the Mail–computer, money blah blah blah, while
saying $ is Jonah’s. What they got right was this was probably a dually motivated
crime–money & cps investigation is the only motivation I’ve read about.
It does seem to me that if JMcS had a healthy bank balance due to a
suddenly successful business (which imo is unproven), then the recipient of his child
support, seeing the new digs, may have been jawboning for a support increase,
and that controvery & other conflicts played out in a CPS “unfounded” finding, if
that finding letter occurred. (I’m surprised any finding result letter would be sent out to a person making
a cps report.)
The ex lives in a $700K house with multiple financial interests and trusts- if Joe agreed to the visitation schedule, which was limited, I have to believe that was not a concern.
I agree with you 100% that there is no way a cps letter goes to anyone. That said, there is an account by McGyver McCarger that he was on the phone with Summer and someone came to the door and Summer appeared to look out, and then yelled- Joey, please get the door, or words to that effect.
B
Now that is an interesting new little twist on things. Thanks for that article Rose.
Here are 2 of the videos Tim Miller made or were in showing the house layout
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4V_51VBResE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m77MM1O5To&feature=player_embedded
I am still learning things about the case- this will be interesting.
After looking at the possible recovery sites, on the NW & SE sides of the intersection of Quarry Road and Route 15, it is too close to Rt. 15 for the site to be chosen at random. I believe this crime was preplanned with the graves prepared and ready.
People often think of desert land being miles and miles of sand. Most desert areas are not. Instead, they are very dry areas that most often have a thin layer of soil over a layer of rock or clay that is almost as hard as rock. Quarry road was named so because there were quarrys in the area for rock,clay or other minerals that had commercial value. Digging a shallow grave under those conditions would require considerable time unless a small backhoe was used. There should be evidence in the soil indicating how they were dug.
If the grave digger was noticed, they could always say they were digging a foundation for a building or shed. This makes it possible for the graves to have been prepared for several weeks in advance.
With this possibility, there could be two crime sites.
I agree completely on the issue of the soil/sand/rock. The mojave has fields of Basalt, which in some instances are covered in clay or limestone.
Maybe that third grave was actually the first- and someone realized they needed a mechanical remedy.
B
@Blink. Are you saying someone on the phone w/ in the time frame overheard verbal indicia J M had arrived home?
Wrt to assets of ex, imo her superior assets would not be tied to her progressive child support expectations based on his improving financial conditions, & an ex’s sense of righteousness. (cf M Sanford wife)
If JM had “limited visitation,” the Q is why, and did that play in to the “abuse” report?
I am not sure I am following you Rose, but I can say that JM did not have limited visitation- I did note that all those interested parties have deleted the 2010 data from their facebooks.
B
The property I url’d has sold since, or been pulled.
Appears to be a commercial development area.
New road coming in making 2 “hwys”?
a walmart distribution center,
idk how anyone thought this was a “Safe” burial area.
Someone with an element of psychotic thinking imo,
Rose- are you up for some taphony conversation? I ask because the crime scene indications are very strong as to that element- and eventually the post mortem interval to the extent the anthro study concludes. This crime scene affords more evidence than the family home, imo.
B
whodunit, iirc you were really good at topigraphy & geography.
topography
Can you expand on the bodies being in tact? I know you mentioned mummification but am I also understanding you’re doubting something about their preservation? Maybe I’m just confused!
It is my understanding that the remains were found mostly intact. That means that either a biological, chemical or outside event assisted that finding in some way. By using the term “intact” I am referring to what one would expect to see under normal ambient conditions in such terrain.
With a max depth of 2 ft, and 2 grave sites with decompositional “attraction” to animal predation -I have a concern that chemical enhancements were used to thwart detection.
The thing about what one might consider a semi-remote site is that if one buries something there at that depth/height- the decomp process, regardless of humidity levels still attracts certain creatures.
And that basic information is without knowledge of the specifics re cause of death and those bio impacts onscene.
B
Hey Blink-
I googled this case earlier today to read about recent developments and just came here only to see what you’ve been up to lately. SO glad you are covering this!
I watched the Lisa Ling investigation special on E! a while back. And while I can’t remember every about the episode…I know that she travel all around Mexico searching for the family. I don’t recall anything of true substance being discussed about the possibility of who would have possible “motive” to kill them. Note, I don’t say who would have “gained” anything. I feel like everyone kept looking for “monetary” motives.
Am I just having selective memory issues? I’m just kinda baffled that an investigative tv show would spend all the money traveling around Mexico chasing “sightings” and not looking into people in their lives who would have any remote motive to kill them.
Granted I could be wrong and just not remembering Ling discussing possible murder motives.
Hope they solve this soon…looking forward to part II.
Nice to see you Pep-
You mean Laura Ling, not Lisa. I did not view the episode, I secured the transcript but you are correct- it was based on the premise the McStay’s went to Mexico on their own.
To your point, I don’t believe money was the root cause for these murders.
B
I don’t understand taphony. But that’s OK.
Thinking of their contacts, it is interesting nothing has been revealed about the
painter who morphed away earlier that week.
Did she lose her temper with him? Was he unstable?
My former nextdoor neighbor, an elderly social worker, told me often her painters
proved substance abusers, saying fumes over time have an impact on them
so she let some go from time to time. But presumeably this is someone more regularly
in their lives if you are concerned wrt more violence.
which statement?
B
All comments on Baker’s new blog disappeared last nite. Other web pages, 2 or 3 I clicked on from google, had been removed.
–
Patrick’s POV:
http://www.missingpersonsofamerica.com/2013/04/patrick-mcstay-lists-his-reasons-why-he.html?m=1
—–
also, he has no suspicion of Chase
http://www.missingpersonsofamerica.com/2013/11/patrick-mcstay-i-do-not-suspect-chase.html?m=1
—-
pic of bridge heading West where her cell was likely disposed of, &
exact funds transfers listed here.
http://mpofa.com/missing-persons-of-america/killed-mcstays-review-case/
—
family friend MacCarger seems to have needed pickup work. Bankruptcy in 2011. A highly creative person, he depicts himself online on various sites as a social media pioneer, and an amateur hacker.
Never a suspect.
——
re “which statement?. never mind, unimportant.
What’s on second?
B
@Blink, can you elaborate?
” I do have a concern for further violence if this is not wrapped up pretty quickly.”
http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/11/20/mcstay-family-murdered-will-desert-graves-yield-their-killers/
—
According to Fallbrook Village Press, there was not a 3rd gravesite:
“Update – Wednesday, November 13, 2013 4:35 p.m.
Investigators have completed the scene examination; there were two graves where remains were located as well as additional skeletel remains that were located near the graves. A grave site recovery is a very meticulous process in efforts to preserve all possible evidence. A third site was excavated however, no evidence was found and the location was determined to be unrelated to the grave site.”
“”There were two graves where remains were located as well as additional skeletal remains that were located near the graves,” authorities stated, adding that a total of four individuals were found.”
http://www.thevillagenews.com/story/74646/
Above reads as tho boys were buried together, one adult was buried, and one adult was located “near” the graves.
http://www.thevillagenews.com/story/74646/
No idea, that is just incorrect. I do think that the 3rd site should have been a hold back piece of info had the investigators been consulted first.
I do find it interesting the reporter call came into dispatch directly, and not 911 and the name has not been released. I don’t recall if it has ever been stated if the reporter met LE at the site.
B
B