McStay Family Murdered: Will Desert Graves Yield Their Killers?
Deserted in the Desert
Gianni Family Photo
Gianni Martelli McStay had rock star hair at only 4years old. His little brother Joseph, affectionately nicknamed Chubba- did as well. They both rocked a beanie like no other little dudes.
Chubba Family Photo
Gianni and Chubba were as inseparable in life as they were in death when they were recovered in a shallow grave in the Mojave Desert on November 11.
Their parents, Joseph, 40 and Summer McStay, 43, were located in a separate grave nearby.
A 3rd gravesite was found-but empty. A protected source not authorized to speak to the media has confirmed that at least one of the parent’s remains was bound by an electrical cord.
While formal DNA comparisons and autopsy protocols are pending, the manner of death in all four victims have been declared homicides.
Just about 50 yards off the intersection of Route 15 and Quarry Rd the family that San Diego County Sheriff’s Department (SDCSD) believed was “likely” voluntarily missing on their own and living in Mexico, was recovered in a 30 hour excavation process. An off road motorcycle enthusiast called the San Bernardino County Sheriff when he came across what he suspected was human remains.
Last April SDCSD forwarded the McStay case to the FBI based on their conclusions that the McStay’s had McGone to Mexico, following a lengthy complaint of their handling of the case by Patrick McStay, Joseph’s Father. Troy Dugal, previous lead investigator of the McStay case, appeared on several news and cable television programs over the last three years explaining there was “overwhelming” circumstantial evidence the family of four that was pictured crossing the border into Tijuana, Mexico the evening of February 8th, 2010 was in fact, the McStays.
Following the recovery, San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Office will maintain jurisdiction of the investigation.
Frenemies.. Frenethieves.. Friends.. Family or Cartel?
Who brutally murders innocent children and dumps them in a hole they dug in the desert?
Logically- someone who is very familiar with the area. Of course it is just as shocking and horrific to murder anyone, but it takes a specific brand of evil to murder a baby. Make that two.
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that either Joseph or Summer McStay had any ties to drugs, associates with ties to drugs or cartel, at any time. None.
Contrary to a top selling book on the case, “No Goodbyes” by Rick Baker, there has never been any evidence whatsoever that Summer McStay was some sort of closeted psychotic and homicidal type. The book goes on to malign members of both Joseph and Summer’s families and in some cases outright accuses same of extortion or stealing. Baker’s subsequent public theory is that Summer murdered Joseph and everyone should be looking for her and the boys in Mexico.
Not surprisingly , Baker has requested Amazon pull his book from available stock and has offered refunds to prior purchases. Popular online sleuth sites previously promoting “No Goodbye’s” have since either deleted it’s hundreds of posts endorsing Baker, or moved them to a member’s only private viewing area.
Albeit obtusely, Baker does touch on a troubling and serious abuse allegation concerning Joseph McStay’s oldest son from his first marriage, Jonah, and his step-father, Michael McFadden. He writes summer filed a complaint with Child Protective Services after she and Joseph recorded a conversation with Jonah and placed a copy of same with a private party for safekeeping. Blinkoncrime.com has been able to independently verify that is accurate, but that the investigation was not known to be completed until shortly after the McStay’s disappearance. Under California probate law, Jonah would be an heir to the McStay estate or as otherwise provisioned in the instance of an existing will.
Interviewed by Laura Ling for E! Investigation, Joseph McStay’s web administrator Dan Kavanaugh claims he was the first to become concerned. In Baker’s book, he refers to him as a suspect and details how he alleges he was funneling cash from McStay’s business account before he or anyone else knew the family was missing. Kavanaugh has an unrelated open criminal matter in San Diego County according to court records.
Chase Merritt- Joseph McStay’s business partner in his water fountain design and installation business was the last number ever dialed from his phone at 8:28PM on February 4th. Merritt joined McStay in a lunch meeting earlier that afternoon where they discussed a proposal for a very large car wash chain to feature custom fountains in each facility. According to family friend MacCargar McGyver, McStay was very excited about the opportunity. Merritt claims he passed a voluntary lie detector test, and that he was adamant that Joseph McStay would never have taken his family to Mexico and has always believed they met with foul play.
McGYver spent several days leading up to February 4th at the McStay home due to a painter Summer hired not returning to complete the job. McGyver introduced Summer and Joseph and by all accounts was a close confidant of the couple.
Patrick McStay, Joseph’s Father living in Texas has had some harsh words for the investigation into the disappearance of his son, daughter in law and grandsons.
“…most botched, inept investigation I’ve ever seen in my entire life.”
He also believes very strongly that the list of suspects with motive to kill his family members is very short. Three, to be exact.
He said the department didn’t even bother to contact him to tell him his son’s remains had been found.
“I got a message from someone [on Thursday] on Facebook telling me to go and read an article,” McStay said. “The minute I read the article, I knew it was him.”
“I have exhausted and have so much information on three possible persons of interest. All have a motive.”
The three individuals are not connected to each other, but all of them seem like likely candidates. Patrick says one of them seems to be a particularly likely suspect: he’s a wealthy man with a long rap sheet that includes charges of attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon and burglary. McStay says he, too, has a motive for killing his son.
Although Mr. McStay did not reference him by name, he may be referring to Michael James McFadden, who was arrested in July 1998 and charged with attempted murder and a litany of other felonies including great bodily harm to a child:
459/460(a) PC – Burglary 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Assault 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
273.5(a) PC – Domestic Violence 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
12022.7(d) PC – Infliction of great bodily injury on a child under the age of five … 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Assault 07/16/1999 02/25/2000 Dismissed
240 PC – Attempt to inflict violent force on another person. 07/16/1999 02/25/2000 Dismissed
245(a)(1) PC – Assault with a deadly weapon other than a firearm 07/16/1998 01/18/2000 Pled Guilty
12022.7(d) PC – Infliction of great bodily injury on a child under the age of five… 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Criminal Terrorist Threat 07/16/1999 01/18/2000 Pled Guilty
664-187 PC – Attempted Murder 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
You will note some of the charges are from 1998, others 1999 on the anniversary date, McFadden successfully negotiated a plea agreement and only pled to criminal terroristic threats and assault with a deadly weapon other than a firearm. Both felonies.
In the complaint he lodged against the detectives in SDCSD, Patrick McStay specifically references failure to interview key suspects he provided to LE directly.
Given the location of the bodies, it would seem that whoever is responsible would at least want investigators to think McFadden was involved. As a self-proclaimed mountain bike “racer”, McFadden has participated in several bike events in various locations all along the Route 15 Mojave corridor. SBCSO says they will be re-interviewing everyone in the case and have no suspects.
There have been no named suspects to date and the investigation is ongoing. Memorial or Funeral arrangements for the McStay’s have not yet been announced . LATE EDIT: The family and friends of the McStay family will gather at the grave site in Victorville, on Joseph’s McStay’s birthday.
To be continued in Part 2: Analysis of the last day of their lives points to involvement by someone they knew.
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Regarding the Amoxicillin prescription, who was at the doctor? We know Summer believed in a holistic approach. There are no reports of Summer or the children being sick. Was Joey at a doctor? Was he picking up the prescription for himself or somebody else?
Alli- please see my last post on this with the most current info I have.
B
Baker, No Goodbyes, page 67.
Joseph’s father, Patrick, claims that law enforcement
investigators told him Joseph bought gas near his home
at about 4:30 p.m. and that he paid for a prescription
for the kids, Amoxicillin, at a local pharmacy at about
the same time.
Joseph and Summer texted each other at 5:00 p.m.
and 5:47 p.m. respectively, so we can assume Joseph was
not at the house yet.
Summer was opposed to doctors and prescription medication. Her children were born at home because of her feelings about hospitals. Her children were not immunized. Summer used natural ingredients as evident with one of her last phone calls seeking a natural remedy for anger. Reports from McGyver and others who had seen or talked to the McStays on February 4th do not indicate that the children were sick. The kids weren’t sick and Summer didn’t use doctors, yet Joey picked up an Amoxicillin prescription for a child at a Fallbrook pharmacy before he came home. Was Joey picking up this antibiotic for someone who was waiting at the McStay home? Was Joey paying the bill again and doing a favor for someone? Michael had three children at the time. Guy Joseph has a son.
Fortunately, if SDSD came to Patrick with this information, they obviously know the identity of the child for whom the prescription was written.
I know what it says in RB book, but it is my understanding from a source which does not wish to be named publicly, that was never confirmed and possibly “made up.” I can’t say specifically which parts or facts, but I do know that Patrick is on record disputing a great deal of information presented as fact in RB’s book.
I would also offer that it seems to me that almost none of the activity the day of Feb 4th was independently corrobborated to include location footage when available, nor has a ping study been released. If in fact James Spring produced one for IR3- it would have included all of the data needed to determine , to the extent possible, based on (+ or -) ratios for cell tower margins of error at the time.
B
http://www.thevillagenews.com/story/46479/
mom of lots
Comment #17 | Monday, Mar 29, 2010 at 5:56 pm
A family member of mine went to Albertson’s the other day and met McStay’s best friend who was passing out fliers to get people back into what is going on and help if they can. He said that video surveillance (security cameras at their home) show the vehicle leaving on the last day known at approx 8:13pm. the video only showed the vehicle leaving (not who was in it). Joseph’s phone was ping-ed at Nessy’s burger/gas station area right there off the 76 and 15 approx. 8:40 pm- after that nothing. His friend said he used cash a lot- so the fact that there are no financial transactions of him being there do not mean anything. I thought this was interesting info that the media has not covered. Wonder if they left, filled up with gas there and picked up something to eat, never to return? Very strange.
The individual identified as “McStay’s best freind” is reported to be Guy Joseph. He was active during this flier handout and spoke for the family. (I can not prove this) “McStay’s best friend” was reporting that the cell phone pings were at the tower near Nessy’s Burgers. There is definitely a cell tower at that location, but I am unable to post a photograph. This geographic location is referred to by some as being part of Fallbrook, but others refer to the location as Bonsall. The McStay home is about one mile from Nessy’s and the communter parking lot behind the hamburger restaurant.
So do you think that is where Michael got the notion the family went out to dinner that eve?
B
https://www.facebook.com/groups/search4mcstays/
Patrick comments about painter
Lanni- I so appreciate you posting a link because I asked you to my friend. However, when I clicked on it, I did not see patrick’s comments about the painter.
It occurs to me I have not been very succinct in explaining to many new posters on BOC what is BOC etiquette. I apologize.
A link to a source is required unless something is someone’s sole opinion. You are permitted to “snip” a portion of a post or published piece not to exceed what is called fair use.. usually no more than 2 paragraphs with a link back for attribution.
If anyone is reading this on this thread or any other and has a question- please do not hesitate to ask me.
B
Learning that JM was suspicious that SM may have been poisoning him, and that they were no longer intimate, reinforces my suspicion that SM was having an affair and that the crux of this case is a love triangle. The BF may have become impatient at not having SM for himself, may have had anger issues (which may be why SM sought holistic anger remedy), may have shocked SM by killing JM, burying him before running to Mexico with SM and boys (which would make BF the slender guy in the border video). Stress may have made SM unstable, and BF may have killed her to prevent her from turning on him, and buried her and boys in a location that had worked for him in the recent past …
Bip- there is no evidence of that. Don’t believe the hype. It is packaging to sell non-original regurgitated information that may not have been accurate the first time around.
B
McFadden and his post to McStay
https://www.facebook.com/groups/search4mcstays/
“Not to get into that whole discussion- but as you know paid interviews of witnesses can certainly effect an open case. Maybe that’s the point.” Undoubtedly.
I wasn’t proposing Chase believed the poisoning story at all. I thought he was
just perhaps disclosing some comments made to him reflecting Joey’s
possible thinking, not that thinking’s truth. Unrealistic & suspicious thinking like that
could have numerous causes, including physical illnesses.
Agreed.
B
https://www.facebook.com/groups/search4mcstays/
Patrick has McFaddens post up on this site
Blink- They lived with Joey’s mom? I thought they lived with Blanche? Because Kenny in the video with Miller and MM says the photos were taken they stayed at his moms and also that the Pods were still at this time at Blanche’s in Big Bear.
Just Wondering
With Susan.
B
Well look what came out today on the Daily Mail- Chase Merritt is apparently writing a book detailing how awful Summer was and that Joey thought she was poisoning him. Wow. This man is a turd.
Wonder how much the Daily Mail is paying him for these articles. And I wonder if Patrick McStay will start to see this man for what he is- a sociopath who lies and walks all over people in the name of MONEY. Not a “friend” to Joesph McStay. They all got played by Chase Merritt just like everyone else he seems to come into contact with.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2533474/EXCLUSIVE-McStay-family-husband-feared-wife-POISONING-disappeared-dead-desert-claims-explosive-new-book.html?login¶m__host=www.dailymail.co.uk¶m_code=AQBXxL7Q2mF2F63cNU4DBqK41XuRh1TMJ9hAHB62yMq_-S80tnJ1hBK_lNQbLdxt8PuDelzvDJqddPGUhr72c5MC9PcYJeUHox1ISf3xh6qPwETO87cQME2alORUb2qcjHw8o8n-RJifKMlH2Hyw9VwDi5onoI-McPo3guSX9pyE_qhd7FOtChMptgzDbPPQon9_7S1Z4XQ4Mx5nonsrCJle4i2Ub_fcOUEje616j9pQ3kSiMiKwYEGF_IG8YXzO1tuul_0YxmIvO0nboeFSVw-roqGbPyJLhGLqeryP9dF5xGfJAApfvw1FovYERGw_L0Q¶m_geolocation=us#readerCommentsCommand-message-field
Agreed, but I don’t think Patrick has any illusions about Chase’s character.
B
So that was the right link but you have to scroll down
thought of something. the reason why the painter vanished was because he was probably in jail. did anyone in the family know the painter’s name? was he there long enough, to know Joey had money? maybe he is the one. was Summer’s coat left at the house or the boys beanies. maybe the he took those items from them to make it look like they crossed the border. also, it might have been the painter at the restaurant, with a kid who had makeup on to look like baby G.
Like · · Share · Get Notifications · December 30, 2013 at 12:23pm
Then Open Comments
Patrick McStay – Susan Galler Smith – Believe me they never crossed the border! Even the SBCSD has said they don’t believe they ever went to Mexico or crossed the border.
December 30, 2013 at 12:59pm · Like · 3
..
Joe Russell J had the birthmark not G
December 30, 2013 at 1:12pm via mobile · Like · 3
..
Christine Hatfield So it was probably another family trying to be like them
December 30, 2013 at 2:13pm via mobile · Like
..
Desi Closet Susan Galler Smith are you saying… Whoever did this to the family……
Staged the scenario to throw everybody off….
1) doing research on their home computer on kids passports prior to taking the family.
2) By leaving car near the Border
3) staging a family of four dressed like the McStays (beanies) going across border at crucial moment
Darn … If that’s the case; much though was put into this ahead of time by the perpetrators.
December 30, 2013 at 2:34pm via mobile · Like · 4
..
Nancy J Smith That is my belief, Desi.
December 30, 2013 at 3:01pm · Like · 3
..
Christine Hatfield I think those people are trying to be like the Mcstay family
December 31, 2013 at 11:33am via mobile · Like
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Susan Galler Smith I know it was not them Patrick, I am saying it was a ‘fake’ family made to look like yours, a coat like Summer had, possible uugs, beanies on the kids and the man.
December 31, 2013 at 11:34am · Like · 2
..
Christine Hatfield I agree with Susan
December 31, 2013 at 11:39am via mobile · Like
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Susan Galler Smith if just someone knew the painter’s name…
December 31, 2013 at 11:43am · Like
..
Susan Galler Smith or could check jail records from that time….
December 31, 2013 at 11:44am · Like
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Christine Hatfield I wonder if the painter wasn’t really a painter
December 31, 2013 at 12:05pm via mobile · Like · 1
..
Patrick McStay -Christine Hatfield- He was in Las Vegas and he claimed his truck broke down on the way back. He had to get his truck fixed and couldn’t get back in time. They knew him as he had done other work for them in the past.
December 31, 2013 at 1:55pm · Edited · Like · 5
.
You do not need to post anything unless you wish obviously, I just thought this was info you had requested.
Blink Says-It concerns me this man is intentionally attempting to deflect facts.
Right I felt that way since he first opened his mouth to the Daily Mail. And his comments about Summer and her calling so often so he could not avoid her, he sure did on the 4th. But again I would think the guilty party here would just shut up.
The timelines are also so questionable. At the start I thought it interesting that the car was towed the 8th and Merrit called the family on the 9th, but since then not only is it not clear when the car was towed, Merrit contacting the family seems to have changed as well.
Lanni
I am really enjoying your enthusiasm and interest in this case. I know it can be a hassle sometimes, but can you attach links when you refer to other articles and posts? This way we can see the article in its entirely and spare you having to snip and copy and paste portions- Thanks in advance!!
x who
Michael McStay’s company, if you will. He has no employees. Click the link to see the license info for Precision Fire Systems.
https://www2.cslb.ca.gov/OnlineServices/CheckLicenseII/LicenseDetail.aspx?LicNum=906248
I find it interesting that he has no employees.
“This license is exempt from having workers compensation insurance; they certified that they have no employees at this time.”
Also check out the review below or check out the Yelp link for Precision Fire Systems. http://www.yelp.com/biz/precision-fire-systems-aliso-viejo
Precision Fire Systems
1 review
Category: Contractors [Edit]
27068 La Paz Rd
Ste 606
Aliso Viejo, CA 92656
Serving Aliso Viejo and surrounding area
Posted by Realized r. on 5/17/2013
Not sure if I would trust this company. We tried to setup an appointment for them to look at our sprinkler and they flaked, i even called to confirm an hour before hand. For 3 days the company didn’t pick up the phone. Then all of a sudden they start calling back? Sorry I moved on.
I believe this “company” is a 1 person operation which wouldn’t normally be a big deal…. But…. Don’t expect him to be on time as he might be someplace else.
Additionally, the website is incomplete…. Which makes me think that maybe the company was started but isn’t actually running. Could be they went out of business and dude got excited about getting a call but decided at the last minute to sleep instead.
Who knows.
I’m curious- how does one raise a family in pricey So Cal and adopt two children from Ghana with a company that doesn’t seem to be prosperous, or a company generating much income at all? No employees? I know independent contractors can make a lot of money but he doesn’t seem like a very hard worker like some journeymen are. At least the Yelp reviewer who seemed sincere felt this way and thought this company was not legit.
This website says the fees are aprox $18,000 to adopt one child in Ghana. Another site had a similar fee. One had some kind of financial assistance. http://faithadopt.org/adoptions/ghana/
If you have enough money to adopt two children from Ghana why would you have to go and strip your family’s home of their belongings and sell them?
An article from Feb 3, 2011. http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2011/Feb/03/few-clues-year-after-mcstay-family-disappeared/
“Mike McStay tries to remain focused each day, being a good husband, raising three young daughters, running his fire-protection business in San Clemente and preparing the family for the adoption this summer of two young orphans from Ghana.”
“The home of Joseph and Summer McStay on Avocado View Lane in Fallbrook is in foreclosure and empty, its contents distributed among family members.”
A snippet from the McStay Family website run by Michael McStay. Posted on December 10, 2013
http://www.mcstayfamily.org/mcstay-memorial-and-beach-paddle-out-san-clemente-pier
My family is overwhelmed by the love and support that friends and strangers have shown us from around the world, including the donations made on the family’s website. If anyone has a question about the donations I feel like because of the generosity of the public, I would be remiss if I didn’t give full disclosure for the donations received, in total $4483.02. McStay Family and Friends would never even consider prospering during this tragedy.
Summer’s Godparents commented on the story.
1. Gloria & Frank Lopez
December 19, 2013 at 7:17 am | Permalink
We are Summer McStay’s godparents and we would like to attend the services. Please let us know if we will be able to attend the church services. Thank you. Gloria Lopez.
Blink, you mention that JM’s symptoms are like meniere’s. I was diagnosed with Meniere’s in 2003, luckily I went and got an MRI the next day after I had the first bout of throwing up and vertigo, and the doctor made an educated guess that my age and gender and symptoms indicated Meniere’s. The only way I was able to confirm it was NOT an inner ear infection was to go to a specialized hearing clinic, because inner ear infections can only be detected with specialized equipment, unlike ” normal ” ear infections. That why a lot of times inner ear infections are missed.
Docs still don’t know much about Meniere’s, and I actually took part in a genetic test at The House iEar Clinic in Los Angeles, as they try to figure out exactly what it is. Soe believe it is influenced by fluctuating hormones- but this may simply be because it is seen in higher numbers in women over 45. Because it is rarer are for men to have Meniere’s, it takes an astute doctor to consider it as a possibility.
Long story short, the first thing I thought of when reading off hand remarks about JM’s dizzy spells was inner ear or meniere’s. The doctors reports can illuminate more, and I hope the FBI have them, if only to eliminate speculation about food poisoning.
Didn’t mean to go off topic, but hope your friend with Meniere’s is doing okay, it’s a tough one.
Thanks, he is, but has a bout or 2 a year where he ends up in bed for a day.
It is debilitating. I know a career LEO who took his own life because it got so bad. I definitely think it is a consideration here.
B
Scout says:
January 5, 2014 at 11:00 pm
Michael McStay’s company, if you will. He has no employees. Click the link to see the license info for Precision Fire Systems.
Scout, I’m playing Devil’s advocate and not disputing your concerns about MM, but I was thinking that his life, business included must have been turned upside down since his brother and family went missing. Imagine trying to run a business and carry on as usual with such a heavy burden hanging over you. It might have a great deal to do with the bad review and even to some extent his odd behavior. I have a troubled brother with no family but he once went missing for an extended period of time and I can tell you that my mind was constantly divided during that period, as much for my mom’s pain as for my own fears. That’s a tough road to hoe that MM has been on for many years now.
I meant tough row to hoe
My name is alta just want u to say thier will
Be justice I worked wth.summer for. Yrs
A long time ago
I certainly hope so alta, I can tell you that is the goal.
B
We had a case in Florida a few years ago where a whole family, to include mother, father and two children, were killed and left by the side of a busy, well travelled roadway. They were lined up execution style and killed. I believe the mother was shot lying over or holding one of her babies, trying to protect them. I turned out to be members of a Mexican drug cartel, who are currently in prison. While I don’t think this is where the evidence in the McStay case points, it seems to me that the Mexican drug cartels are the only people who seem to have no aversion to killing children. I don’t know how that relates here, only that I think there is some significance in the fact that the children were killed along with the adults, and these children, if I recall, seemed to be too young to be able to identify the killers. Why the children – I cannot imagine a person cold hearted enough to kill children with no regard to their obvious innocence. Katt
Welcome Katt West-
You are referring to the Escobedo Case in 2006, Port St. Lucie. The interesting aspect of that case is that had the Father not taken the whole family, he would have been the only victim as he was involved in drugs, and in fact was making a drug deal. Talk about putting your children at risk-
I see no evidence that The McStay’s were involved in any sort of drug trafficking, but as I have said before, with some of these gems around them I would not rule out that Joey was blamed for something or put in the middle of something unwittingly. That I could definitely see. He was constantly helping people out and giving folks repeat chances they probably did not deserve.
I do agree that whoever is responsible at the very least wanted to give the appearance this was cartel involvement.
B
This doesn’t make sense to me:
I have a feeling that posting this link is repetitive, surely the information contained within has been refried to. but anyway, as a refresher:
http://www.cbs8.com/story/24277118/mcstay-murder-mystery-who-is-dan-kavanaugh
Didn’t the post of the EIP account show that Kavanaugh made withdrawals before the disappearance? Kavanaugh says in this article that he did all the web business, “McStay just answered the phones”. Do the phone records show consistent contact between Kavanaugh and McStay previous to disappearance?
They do, and DK is delusional. And FOS about the length of his stay in HI.
B
Blink:
“I personally do not believe that he pulled off the road because he was not feeling well the day of his disappearance and I would offer when that statement was made, Susan Blake was pretty open that she was not a fan of Summer’s.”
None of the phone records show he spoke to his mother on his last day. Unless he saw her in person which is not stated anywhere I have seen.
Bystander, could Joey have had another personal phone (burner phone)that we are not aware of? He could have used this phone to call his mother from the road.
Blink- Are investigators going to be able to get the text message content from JM’s & SM’s cell phones? Are they able to go back into the call logs and through their system and track where their phones pinged that day? It happened in 2010-I would think and hope they had that capability.
Weren’t they able to extract the content of the text messages from Jodi Arias’ and Travis Alexander’s cell phones? He was murdered in 2008 and they were able to do it.
Patrick says PM & SM phones were Android’s and Summer’s provider was T-Mobile (I assume JM’s too but it didn’t say). “That’s Summer’ s cell, that’s were it was registered with T-Mobile.” August 22, 2012 at 7:43pm
https://www.facebook.com/groups/search4mcstays/463401177032898/
At first they were not, until I want to say 2011. If they were preserved as requested by LE they should be, yes. The question is whether or not subpoenas were executed to do that- I have some doubt.
B
@ Bystander and Allison (comment # 21 & 22)…the oddest part of this in my opinion is that if true why wasn’t Susan concerned about not hearing from Joey for several days after the 4th? As a mother of a grown son with health issues I can say with great confidence that had my son called me from the side of the freeway saying he was feeling ill and needed to pull over until his dizziness passed, I would have been frantic with worry if I didn’t hear from him that he made it home within a couple of hours at most! And I most certainly would have been calling him to check on his health the next day…and receiving no answer, would have them been calling his wife or someone else close to him…I would not let up until I felt confident that he was ok. So for Susan to wait 3 or 4 days…or even 2…before becoming concerned about not being able to reach Joey…well it just seems wrong.
So do you think that is where Michael got the notion the family went out to dinner that eve?
B
Blink, I wish it were that simple. As with the surveillance videos, there are once again a variety of reports about the cell phone pings. I do believe that variation in the details of this case is probably by design. It is also interesting that Dan Kavanaugh was placing cell phone calls to Summer from Hawaii. On February 6th, Dan’s final text message registered at 10:59 a.m. on Summer’s phone. According to Patrick, the first illegal money transfers were initiated on February 6th. On February 6th – Request initiated – money from bank account to paypal acct in amount of $2000.00 USD (https://www.facebook.com/notes/search-4-mcstays/paypal-withdrawalsmoney-transfers/226476467392038).
Guy Joseph spoke for the family at a Fallbrook flier hand-out event and informed people that Joey’s last call pinged from the cell tower by Nessy’s Burgers at the intersection of Rt. 15 and Rt. 76. http://www.thevillagenews.com/story/46479/
Patrick claimed that he was told the call pinged from a tower located by the baseball field at Live Oak Park, in Fallbrook.
James Spring from IR3 reported that after the 7:47 p.m. departure that Thursday night, Joseph McStay’s mobile phone – a T-Mobile G1 Android – received no further incoming calls. It made only one outbound call. At 8:28 p.m., Joseph McStay’s phone dialed his business partner Chase Merritt. Records indicate a call duration of one minute. No further calls or text were ever made or received.
It is now being reported that the call to Merritt was made from within a one-and-a-half mile radius of a cell tower that sits beside the old Bonsall bridge that spans the wide and densely overgrown bed of the San Luis Rey River.
The mobile phone belonging to Summer McStay registered its final call at 4:42 that same Thursday afternoon. Disconcertingly, though, her phone continued to receive text messages after the disappearance – eight, in total. Three texts sent by family friend McGyver McCargar arrived on Friday. The last four texts, including two messages from Dan Kavanaugh, an associate of Joseph McStay, arrived on Saturday. The final text message registered at 10:59 a.m., presumably just before the mobile phone’s battery was exhausted.
Some of these text messages to Summer McStay pinged the same T-Mobile tower as Joseph McStay’s phone call on the night of the disappearance. The other text messages pinged a companion tower on the opposite side of the river.
http://ir3.org/new-cell-tower-info-s…as-in-bonsall/
The cell tower by Nessy’s Burgers is located 1.53 miles from the McStay home on Avocado Vista Lane. It is .85 miles as the crow flies across a few open spaces.
The cell tower at the baseball field in Live Oak Park is 7.3 miles from the McStay home.
The cell towers by the Bonsall Bridge are 8.35 miles from Avocado Vista Lane.
I am personally inclined to think that the cell tower at Rt.76 and Rt.15 is probably the correct tower and that Joey and/or his phone were still in fairly close proximity to Avocado Vista Lane, even though surveillance video recorded the Trooper leaving at 7:47, forty-one minutes earlier. Is it possible that the Isuzu Trooper was actually parked at the commuter lot behind Nessy’s from the night of February 4th until February 8th when the vehicle was moved to San Ysidro? Someone could have driven the Trooper to the commuter lot and returned on foot to the house well within the 41 minute window to retrieve a second vehicle and the McStay family. A vehicle parked in the street on Avocado Vista Lane would not have appeared on the neighbor’s surveillance video.
Pinging locates the cell phones (and vehicle?) somewhere in the Bonsall vicinity, only a mile and a half from their home. Before the cell phones go dead. It was really disturbing to hear Michael McStay admit he realizes that he realizes the phones could have been receiving as they lay in the pockets of bodies “in a ditch” somewhere in that area.
http://joebrainardspajamas.blogspot.com/2011/12/e-investigates-laura-ling-examines.html
This report by the Laura Ling investigation also identifies the cell phone behind Nessy’s as the one that pinged from Joey’s call – a mile and a half from their home.
I know quite a bit about ping studies and the reporting capabilities of same. I am qualified to present findings on them as they relate to overall crime scene analysis, but from the report itself. Few things-
1. Who has verified the accuracy?
2. A ping study is only available by subpoena from LE. Those of us who have worked with them are sometimes tasked with helping to support the affidavit to get them in the first place. How was this acquired, and how?
3. Analysis of ping studies to include trajects and triangulations would be available as well- where is that?
4. What other subpoena requests were made of aforementioned towers? Pre paid or trac phones? Who is pinging together at these times, etc?
B
Blink writes:
They do, and DK is delusional. And FOS about the length of his stay in HI.
B
—
Agreed, Blink. Kavanaugh made a BIG deal about his expertise in all things technical.
Also in this article, Kavanaugh says he was 2500 miles away and had neither the means or the motive to do such a thing.
Guess what. You can hire a hit man on line, using bit coins.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/10/17/hitman-network-says-it-accepts-bitcoins-to-murder-for-hire.html
——-
Relevant to those who theorize that the mCstay murder was a hit, and that it was entangled with gain from McStays on line business, I direct your attention to this guy:
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20131122/11282025337/apparently-hiring-actual-hitman-online-is-more-difficult-than-dread-pirate-roberts-imagined.shtml
who- silkroad was not even online in February 2010. Dan Kavanaugh is no Ross Ulbricht. Having recently reviewed some of the old EIP site- I question his web development skills in the first place. He clearly did not know C++.
He may be a hacker, and I definitely believe he hacked and attempted to hack Joey’s accounts and the online site after the disappearance- but the thing about hackers is that if they are good- you never know you were hacked. You don’t have a paper trail to Istanbul like this putz. Kavanaugh is a 2 bit con Joey trusted because having worked in the industry on the agency side (me)- I can tell you it is the reason for the .com era.. Joey was a business man and craftsman/artist. He did not know the web sales channel world and he needed DK for it- except I don’t believe DK knew half he professed to in the first place. EIP was content driven
Ulbricht, who by most was considered Zuckerburg-like, got snagged because he used a gmail account with his own name. What a maroon.
( Istanbul is my joke phrase, I do not know of a connection to it)
I think we will learn plenty more about DK hacked-hacking, lol, but I am not seeing the relevance to Ulbricht?
B
Guys, some of this I hear and I have no link. Some of it I read and have no idea where so I guess I just will not post unless I have a link and you probably should not post this but
Blinks says So do you think that is where Michael got the notion the family went out to dinner that eve?
B
Micheal also speculated that the went to a park in ride that he said was dangerous. Speculated or said summer was on craigslist and bought lots of stuff via craigslist. Now I would hope LE would have that info but what if they just got tricked by some drug person that needed a couple hundred bucks (x box issue) went to that home and no I have no idea why they all would go and were killed within that range of the tower to later be disposed of in the desert? Does LE have hope if its something like that? Also Blink do you think they went to Mexico, because when I look at that video now I wonder if Joey is off to the right. Someone is interacting with the child holding the mans hand and this person looks more like Joey and his build. Originally I said no way because the man they said looked like him was not him. This other man however could I think be him. Will post a link to a facebook where people have started to mark this man in the video because they also have noticed this other man could be him.
I do not think they went to Mexico, no.
B
Blink- this may be a tangent, and I leave it up to you to post or not.
Uulbrict, in an attemot to protect his hundreds of millions in illegal gains through on line business, hired a hit man ON LINE to take out an employee. The hit man was actually an undercover agent. The employees death was faked, complete with bloody photos.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20131108/08135625180/silk-road-employee-who-dread-pirate-roberts-tried-to-kill-comes-forward.shtml
believe me, I am not saying that there is any connection, or that the mCStay tragedy is fake!
But in light of all the misinformation out there about the McStay case: I do believe it is entirely possible that those involved with the investigation, including the FBI, would go to great lengths, possibly even disseminating misleading information, in order to capture McStay murderers if there was a huge amount of money involved.
whodunnit says:
January 6, 2014 at 4:03 am
This doesn’t make sense to me:
I have a feeling that posting this link is repetitive, surely the information contained within has been refried to. but anyway, as a refresher:
http://www.cbs8.com/story/24277118/mcstay-murder-mystery-who-is-dan-kavanaugh
“I actually transferred it (the money) to myself with Mike’s knowledge,” he said. “None of that money went to me. That money went to vendors, welders and manufacturers.”
~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi Who and all: Why is DK, who was hired as website designer for JM, paying vendors, welders and manufacturers? Is he part owner of the business? What am I missing here?
He was not part owner of the business, never had an interest stake or share, and as a matter of fact, was texting Joey and then Summer about payment of his fee, which did not match the amount taken in the first place. He had no access to the merchant or other business accounts although he tried to get EIP’s quicken backup file sent to him. Then in July 2011, he illegally sold the business and the domain. That is just the brief quick and dirty on this con. Matt Schneider and Joaquin Quintero ( 2 of the buyers) have both since been arrested for pot rings.
You are not missing anything at all- this is who we are dealing with in this scenario.
B
Other than being affaid of the
Light, what.else was mr.merrit
Affraid of,does he know more?
Extra whole at grave site was it
For someone?
The light?
B
Title of book of his , maybe says
Something other than being money
Hungry
Thats an editors title, not his, but thank you.
B
@ Bystander and Allison (comment # 21 & 22)…the oddest part of this in my opinion is that if true why wasn’t Susan concerned about not hearing from Joey for several days after the 4th? As a mother of a grown son with health issues I can say with great confidence that had my son called me from the side of the freeway saying he was feeling ill and needed to pull over until his dizziness passed, I would have been frantic with worry if I didn’t hear from him that he made it home within a couple of hours at most! And I most certainly would have been calling him to check on his health the next day…and receiving no answer, would have them been calling his wife or someone else close to him…I would not let up until I felt confident that he was ok. So for Susan to wait 3 or 4 days…or even 2…before becoming concerned about not being able to reach Joey…well it just seems wrong.
His phone records do not show a call to Susan on the 4th.
Blink
The light issue Merrit has some statement on his book about how light thinks it is fast but darkness is always there first, the light finds out when it gets there. To me it is odd.
Lost me on that lanni. His book is out? If you read it online it has a link please.
I know, sorry, but rules are rules for a reason.
B
I do not think they went to Mexico, no.
B
Ok good. I will stick with what I first thought.
He had no access to the merchant or other business accounts although he tried to get EIP’s quicken backup file sent to him.
The Quicken software program was ordered on February 8th, order #SBL37682110. The total amount of this sale was $182.62 for a 2010 download (w/reinstall). This was a download purchase. The billing address was Earth Inspired Products, 328 Avenida Cabrillo B, San Clemente, CA 92672-1625. This is the address where Joey and Summer had lived in San Clemente. Someone received a bill at this address for $182.62.
Can someone please show me where it has been determined that this downloaded purchase went to a computer other than the one owned by Joseph McStay? It is my understanding that attempts were made to obtain backup copies of the original downloaded program on February 6th. Has it been determined who actually made this purchase from Quicken and has the computer been identified where the download took place?
You can’t
“I know quite a bit about ping studies and the reporting capabilities of same. I am qualified to present findings on them as they relate to overall crime scene analysis, but from the report itself. Few things-”
There has been no forensic analysis of these cell phone towers that I am aware of. If SDSD performed evaluations, they haven’t stated any results. The only “official” report has been by James Spring and I understand that some have questioned the accuracy of his findings. The location of the specific cell tower remains undetermined at this point and nothing has been released by SDSD specifying the location of cell phone pings from Joey’s phone or Summer’s phone. As I stated in my post a@ 12:58, I am personally “inclined to think” that the cell tower at Rt.76 and Rt.15 “is probably” the correct tower. I do not have exact information, nor did I indicate that I have this information.
Detective Dugal did say that cell tower data indicates JM drove a direct path from Rancho Cucamonga to Fallbrook after his lunch with Chase. Dugal discusses this in the Disappeared video at the link below. Approx 16:46 on timestamp. He does not identify specific cell towers, however. I would personally assume that the cell tower by Nessy’s Burgers is on the direct route next to the Interstate, but we have no confirmation of this. The towers by Bonsall Bridge would be 8.35 miles to the west of the Interstate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_66jh9bxJwI
I also think that it is important not to attribute the financial transfers from Joey’s financial accounts to specific named individuals. The recipients of account transactions are clear in many of the bank receipts, but the individual actually initiating the transaction is not clear. Because of password use, the online banking system assumed the transactions were made by Joesph McStay. We know that was not possible, however. I am certain that law enforcement is far ahead of us on this one, and it would be reckless for us to identify specific individuals without clear evidence.
Truth- I can tell you that there is significant financial data that has been verified and not released publicly. I would agree that ultimately who received what from whom is subject to interpretation, but account ownerships or “peer to peer” if you will, is not. 128 bit encrypted transactions are pretty trackable to owner for criminal subpoena. I expect that to happen in this case.
I would respectfully disagree that speculation about access tied to specific individuals is reckless when they are admitting to it in public interviews, and the receipts of both the withdrawal and deposit accounts are identified.
B
Sorry this one I thought I did post a link to Daily Mail, it shows the cover of his book (afraid of the light)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2533474/EXCLUSIVE-McStay-family-husband-feared-wife-POISONING-disappeared-dead-desert-claims-explosive-new-book.html
The quote is by Terry Prachet about darkness and light, there is also a photo of Merrit and cover has copyright
“Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong, no matter how fast light travels it finds the darkness has always got there first,and is waiting for it”
Bip says:
January 5, 2014 at 2:34 pm
Learning that JM was suspicious that SM may have been poisoning him, and that they were no longer intimate, reinforces my suspicion that SM was having an affair and that the crux of this case is a love triangle. The BF may have become impatient at not having SM for himself, may have had anger issues (which may be why SM sought holistic anger remedy), may have shocked SM by killing JM, burying him before running to Mexico with SM and boys (which would make BF the slender guy in the border video). Stress may have made SM unstable, and BF may have killed her to prevent her from turning on him, and buried her and boys in a location that had worked for him in the recent past …
This seems not likely to me. He then would have to dig up a grave to put Summer in and the choice to put her with Joey seems odd if its this. I tend to lean in another direction but the only way I see this would be if Summer had a lover who harmed her, at the home. One who the children could identify and Joey came home as that person laid in wait. The little evidence does not seem to flow this way but IMO and in my Humble IMO because of the lack of phone activity on Joeys end, I feel It started there.
“Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong, no matter how fast light travels it finds the darkness has always got there first,and is waiting for it”
He bothers me. Merrit does.
Ghost writer, co-editor, co-author, but definitely not Chase Merritt.
There is quite a bit of the publishing meetings going on in this case at the moment.
B
I know quite a bit about ping studies and the reporting capabilities of same. I am qualified to present findings on them as they relate to overall crime scene analysis, but from the report itself. Few things-
1. Who has verified the accuracy?
2. A ping study is only available by subpoena from LE. Those of us who have worked with them are sometimes tasked with helping to support the affidavit to get them in the first place. How was this acquired, and how?
3. Analysis of ping studies to include trajects and triangulations would be available as well- where is that?
4. What other subpoena requests were made of aforementioned towers? Pre paid or trac phones? Who is pinging together at these times, etc?
B
Mike McStay was asked how he knew certain things and at that time he said he himself had the pings from the phone company.
Lanni- I so appreciate your willingness and eagerness in this case, but we cannot answer for others without a source link. Would you want someone to speak on your behalf in such a serious matter?
Let’s agree that if you can’t source it, you must say it is your opinion, you can’t say “so and so said” unless you provide the quote and source.
Not picking on you friend, there are legal reasons for my request and I don’t want to delete posts I can’t publish. I almost never do that.
Pings are accessible to LE via subpoena only and Mike, James Spring and IR3 know that. I would also note, to my knowledge, it was not until a year after Michael and Susan hired James Spring those were released. That’s an issue.
B
Blink Says..
Ghost writer, co-editor, co-author, but definitely not Chase Merritt.
There is quite a bit of the publishing meetings going on in this case at the moment.
B
Oh ok.
Hi Who and all: Why is DK, who was hired as website designer for JM, paying vendors, welders and manufacturers? Is he part owner of the business? What am I missing here?
Playing Devils advocate, maybe because DK knew how? Mike and Susan have made no secret they wanted to try and keep running the business and there was even a transfer to Mike Mcstay of the web address for EIP (now goes to the family missing site). Mike has said they worked with Chase and vice versa. I would assume they needed Dk for the website just like Joey did. Maybe DK did make payments for joey in the past to venders and the like or maybe he did not but when asked if he could do so, he said yes and did. According to him that is what took place but of course I take it all with a grain of salt and do not know what amount of help was to help run the business for MM and SB, or when they asked him for that help, even if it was first their idea perhaps DK gave them the idea.
All im getting at is if he knows there
Life so well and worked for them,
shurly he. Would of know if they
Were. In danger do to something
Dealing with eip
I would agree that Chase, having the highest level of interaction daily, and throughout the last day, last dinner guest, etc-
Has a great deal to offer this investigation.
B
blink writes:
Thanks, he is, but has a bout or 2 a year where he ends up in bed for a day.
It is debilitating. I know a career LEO who took his own life because it got so bad. I definitely think it is a consideration here.
B
–
I was diagnosed in 2003. The first couple of years I had bouts that would make me lose two days, sometimes more- and twins were babies, it was unbelievable. They say it is the worst at first and then the symptoms lessen, and I have seen that to be true.
He needs to keep chewable dramamine with him at all times, low LOW salt diet, keep weight down and above all try to stay calm- many docs will prescribe valium or something like that to meniere’s patients, knowing how stress can trigger it. I bought an inversion board, not sure why or how or even if it changed things but I haven’t had an attack since I got it.
Only Meneiere’s sufferers know how awful and frightening it is. Send him a hug from one YOUR biggest fans. From time to time, I look for support sites on line,maybe your friend would like this one-
http://www.menieres-disease.ca
If mr merrit has alot to offer
To the investigation has
He offerd, because one
Can only assume he is
Holding it all in
And if he did was it viable
Forgive me if this has been covered but I cannot find a reference to this question. Does anyone know what, if anything was recorded on CM’s voicemail when the last call was placed from JM’s phone? It was a minute long call, and I assume there was no actual message but was there anything recorded?
No message
B
Hi TrInCa!
Reading all of the files that Patrick McStay has provided (especially the PayPal ones and this one in which DK threatens to take Joey’s business down (https://www.facebook.com/notes/search-4-mcstays/ims-joeydk-wletter/461547510551598) on his McStay FB page is very helpful and interesting. I don’t find MMcs very credible and/or honest. He is not the genuine Christian that he pretends to be.
PM makes this comment about EIP and DK and what authority he had in JM’s business which was NONE.
“There are no partners in EIP. Joseph B. McStay was the only owner and sole proprietor of EIP (Earth Inspired Products)! The only partner in EIP in the past was me Patrick, Joey’s Father. There have been no other partners since me, Joey has been the only owner since then. No one and I repeat NO ONE had any authority to do anything with EIP PERIOD! No business decisions, no money matters, no business designs, no website designs or information, nothing! I hope that is now clear to everyone!”
Patrick McStay “he (DK) really had no role in the company per say. He was an independent contractor who was the person who worked with Joey in designing the EIP website. Then DK was paid to maintain the website rankings and keep the design up to date and to keep it ranked on top of fountain web searches. He had no ownership as it was a sole proprietorship. There was no stock or shares, again because it was not incorporated, it was the sole property and owned by Joey, period.”
https://www.facebook.com/notes/search-4-mcstays/paypal-account-withdrawals/500076060032076
And another one from Patrick McStay about DK’s new business.
“That was a new website that he DK started and want Joey to be his partner. The name was something like Nexus or Nexius. DK bugged Joey to be his partner although Joey wanted nothing to do with DK, he hoped if he just said OK, that might keep DK from going after EIP.”
December 1, 2013 at 9:12am
https://www.facebook.com/notes/search-4-mcstays/paypal-account-withdrawals/500076060032076
Blink I see that you answered that ‘no message’ was left with regards to the last call made from JM’s phone. Is it possible for specialists from say the FBI to analyze the recording for background noise/sounds to help identify what was going on.
I mean I know when I call someone from my cell, sometimes the wind or other background noises (cars, radio, human breathe) could be heard even if I didn’t say anything.
By saying ‘no message’ do you mean the phone was hung up before the voice mail activated? Meaning there is nothing to analyze for background noise.
Meaning from Chase’s phone, it was a missed call, and there was no vm. It can be accomplished very simply if someone calls, gets the vm and hangs up. In 2010 that is.
B