McStay Family Murdered: Will Desert Graves Yield Their Killers?
Deserted in the Desert
Gianni Family Photo
Gianni Martelli McStay had rock star hair at only 4years old. His little brother Joseph, affectionately nicknamed Chubba- did as well. They both rocked a beanie like no other little dudes.
Chubba Family Photo
Gianni and Chubba were as inseparable in life as they were in death when they were recovered in a shallow grave in the Mojave Desert on November 11.
Their parents, Joseph, 40 and Summer McStay, 43, were located in a separate grave nearby.
A 3rd gravesite was found-but empty. A protected source not authorized to speak to the media has confirmed that at least one of the parent’s remains was bound by an electrical cord.
While formal DNA comparisons and autopsy protocols are pending, the manner of death in all four victims have been declared homicides.
Just about 50 yards off the intersection of Route 15 and Quarry Rd the family that San Diego County Sheriff’s Department (SDCSD) believed was “likely” voluntarily missing on their own and living in Mexico, was recovered in a 30 hour excavation process. An off road motorcycle enthusiast called the San Bernardino County Sheriff when he came across what he suspected was human remains.
Last April SDCSD forwarded the McStay case to the FBI based on their conclusions that the McStay’s had McGone to Mexico, following a lengthy complaint of their handling of the case by Patrick McStay, Joseph’s Father. Troy Dugal, previous lead investigator of the McStay case, appeared on several news and cable television programs over the last three years explaining there was “overwhelming” circumstantial evidence the family of four that was pictured crossing the border into Tijuana, Mexico the evening of February 8th, 2010 was in fact, the McStays.
Following the recovery, San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Office will maintain jurisdiction of the investigation.
Frenemies.. Frenethieves.. Friends.. Family or Cartel?
Who brutally murders innocent children and dumps them in a hole they dug in the desert?
Logically- someone who is very familiar with the area. Of course it is just as shocking and horrific to murder anyone, but it takes a specific brand of evil to murder a baby. Make that two.
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that either Joseph or Summer McStay had any ties to drugs, associates with ties to drugs or cartel, at any time. None.
Contrary to a top selling book on the case, “No Goodbyes” by Rick Baker, there has never been any evidence whatsoever that Summer McStay was some sort of closeted psychotic and homicidal type. The book goes on to malign members of both Joseph and Summer’s families and in some cases outright accuses same of extortion or stealing. Baker’s subsequent public theory is that Summer murdered Joseph and everyone should be looking for her and the boys in Mexico.
Not surprisingly , Baker has requested Amazon pull his book from available stock and has offered refunds to prior purchases. Popular online sleuth sites previously promoting “No Goodbye’s” have since either deleted it’s hundreds of posts endorsing Baker, or moved them to a member’s only private viewing area.
Albeit obtusely, Baker does touch on a troubling and serious abuse allegation concerning Joseph McStay’s oldest son from his first marriage, Jonah, and his step-father, Michael McFadden. He writes summer filed a complaint with Child Protective Services after she and Joseph recorded a conversation with Jonah and placed a copy of same with a private party for safekeeping. Blinkoncrime.com has been able to independently verify that is accurate, but that the investigation was not known to be completed until shortly after the McStay’s disappearance. Under California probate law, Jonah would be an heir to the McStay estate or as otherwise provisioned in the instance of an existing will.
Interviewed by Laura Ling for E! Investigation, Joseph McStay’s web administrator Dan Kavanaugh claims he was the first to become concerned. In Baker’s book, he refers to him as a suspect and details how he alleges he was funneling cash from McStay’s business account before he or anyone else knew the family was missing. Kavanaugh has an unrelated open criminal matter in San Diego County according to court records.
Chase Merritt- Joseph McStay’s business partner in his water fountain design and installation business was the last number ever dialed from his phone at 8:28PM on February 4th. Merritt joined McStay in a lunch meeting earlier that afternoon where they discussed a proposal for a very large car wash chain to feature custom fountains in each facility. According to family friend MacCargar McGyver, McStay was very excited about the opportunity. Merritt claims he passed a voluntary lie detector test, and that he was adamant that Joseph McStay would never have taken his family to Mexico and has always believed they met with foul play.
McGYver spent several days leading up to February 4th at the McStay home due to a painter Summer hired not returning to complete the job. McGyver introduced Summer and Joseph and by all accounts was a close confidant of the couple.
Patrick McStay, Joseph’s Father living in Texas has had some harsh words for the investigation into the disappearance of his son, daughter in law and grandsons.
“…most botched, inept investigation I’ve ever seen in my entire life.”
He also believes very strongly that the list of suspects with motive to kill his family members is very short. Three, to be exact.
He said the department didn’t even bother to contact him to tell him his son’s remains had been found.
“I got a message from someone [on Thursday] on Facebook telling me to go and read an article,” McStay said. “The minute I read the article, I knew it was him.”
“I have exhausted and have so much information on three possible persons of interest. All have a motive.”
The three individuals are not connected to each other, but all of them seem like likely candidates. Patrick says one of them seems to be a particularly likely suspect: he’s a wealthy man with a long rap sheet that includes charges of attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon and burglary. McStay says he, too, has a motive for killing his son.
Although Mr. McStay did not reference him by name, he may be referring to Michael James McFadden, who was arrested in July 1998 and charged with attempted murder and a litany of other felonies including great bodily harm to a child:
459/460(a) PC – Burglary 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Assault 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
273.5(a) PC – Domestic Violence 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
12022.7(d) PC – Infliction of great bodily injury on a child under the age of five … 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Assault 07/16/1999 02/25/2000 Dismissed
240 PC – Attempt to inflict violent force on another person. 07/16/1999 02/25/2000 Dismissed
245(a)(1) PC – Assault with a deadly weapon other than a firearm 07/16/1998 01/18/2000 Pled Guilty
12022.7(d) PC – Infliction of great bodily injury on a child under the age of five… 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Criminal Terrorist Threat 07/16/1999 01/18/2000 Pled Guilty
664-187 PC – Attempted Murder 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
You will note some of the charges are from 1998, others 1999 on the anniversary date, McFadden successfully negotiated a plea agreement and only pled to criminal terroristic threats and assault with a deadly weapon other than a firearm. Both felonies.
In the complaint he lodged against the detectives in SDCSD, Patrick McStay specifically references failure to interview key suspects he provided to LE directly.
Given the location of the bodies, it would seem that whoever is responsible would at least want investigators to think McFadden was involved. As a self-proclaimed mountain bike “racer”, McFadden has participated in several bike events in various locations all along the Route 15 Mojave corridor. SBCSO says they will be re-interviewing everyone in the case and have no suspects.
There have been no named suspects to date and the investigation is ongoing. Memorial or Funeral arrangements for the McStay’s have not yet been announced . LATE EDIT: The family and friends of the McStay family will gather at the grave site in Victorville, on Joseph’s McStay’s birthday.
To be continued in Part 2: Analysis of the last day of their lives points to involvement by someone they knew.
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http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2014/jan/05/stringers-paddle-out-mcstay-family/
Very interesting comments.
Blink, not a pot stirrer, but your good name is being slandered in the Parking Lot at WS. The grave site thread. Members are dropping your name and their posts are not being corrected or deleted. I have been around long enough to believe in you and your site.
You can post this but you don’t have to.
Carolyn, thank you. I appreciate your advocacy. Their posts will be deleted because eventually they will realize there are members screen shooting all of their ghoulish business like the sewer dwelling ilk they are. Patty Griffin, author of several anti- Blink posts in an open criminal case that she refused to feature on WS, which we solved and was adjudicated in the face of her antics, will never give a rats ass about any victim or any person she pretends to.
Lest anyone forget, “Tricia” was happy to employ a registered sex offender, who had access to all members private information for several years until it was revealed- that is how “engaged” she is. One thing I have learned over the years is that haters find their crater. WS “underground” is nothing but, with the sole intention of it.
B
Don’t know if this was applied to the McStay case, but this article says that since 9/11, NSA has been able to track the location of cell phones even when they are turned off, or drained of batteries.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130723/12395923907/even-powering-down-cell-phone-cant-keep-nsa-tracking-its-location.shtml
I have posted it before
Michael also has his brother’s phone records for that evening. “The last call my brother made was at 8:28 p.m. to an associate of his and that lasted for a minute,” he said. “After that there are no further pings and no other minutes that are used by my brother’s phone or Summer’s phone.”
http://www.sanclementetimes.com/update-on-the-missing-mcstay-family/
also what if one asked a question and that was his reply?
How do you reference if you asked him via email and he said this or that. For instance you did not understand how he could have the info he did, or someone else could not and so you asked him via email and he answered? Seemed to know what he was talking about. Its just seems to come up and its one thing I know for a fact, the paper saying it is just something I could find to back it up.
It is the reason his info seemed the most credible at the time unless he himself does not understand pings and what it means.
Not exactly sure what you are saying, but I would not expect any layperson to understand how to analyze a full ping study. In fact, I have seen professionals miscalculate and read it wrong- myself included in the learning curve.
B
Scout-
I looked at the facebook page for his company and it looks like he is busy also it is my opinion his household has two incomes. Unless his company is doing so well that he now supports all on his own.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Precision-Fire-Systems/271683076197741
Carolyn says:
January 7, 2014 at 12:18 am
http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2014/jan/05/stringers-paddle-out-mcstay-family/
Very interesting comments.
Yes Carolyn and I wonder who that family member was? I think the Mr Rodgers comment may have been toward Mike’s previous step dad.
I guess if all this is true about pings and getting that info, it has to be my opinion LE gave them to MM.
Nobody gave them to MM as I understand it. The only thing I can say for certain is that if a ping study was prepared and analyzed in 2011 as it seems it was, at the request of James Spring- it was provided by a member of a Law Enforcement Agency with the resources to do so.
B
admin
admin
July 20, 2011 at 8:08 am | Permalink
http://www.mcstayfamily.org/isuzu-video-747pm-feb-4-2010
Post by Admin
Cell Phone pings can only be done when the phone are on. At the point that the SDSD got involved was 11 days later. Once the phones are off or dead, they cannot be pinged. The call from Joey’s phone at 8:28pm to Chase Merritt was from a local tower in Fallbrook. This is exactly how the SDSD has explained it to me. They believe that Joey’s phone was in Fallbrook the night of Feb 4, 2010, but it would be an assumption to know who was with him at the time of the call. Of course it’s logical to think that it was all four of them, but without a confirmed sighting, it’s impossible to know.
Lanni, thanks for posting that. It is my opinion that SDSD did not understand how to utilize the data that would be available from Joey’s phone. It would be my firm belief that when handed the case in April 2013, the FBI definitely would.
Provided that info was preserved via subpoena, which if they requested a ping study would qualify, they know much more.
B
Blink writes:
Meaning from Chase’s phone, it was a missed call, and there was no vm. It can be accomplished very simply if someone calls, gets the vm and hangs up. In 2010 that is.
B
—
other scenario could be that the cell phone dropped the connection or battery died at that point., or as you posited a while back, could have been an unintentional call triggered like a ” pocket call”
re pocket dial, IIRC , you pointed out that the previous number called was NOT Chases, which minimalizes chance of an accidental pocket call, but fumbling a phone can bring up numbers accidentally as well ( its happened to me)
and of course, the phone could have been in someone else hands, purposely dialed Merrit and then hung up.
If Joseph’s phone had died, and if he had been with Summer , whose phone had power after 8:47, and Joseph really need to contact merit, AND if he /they were safe and able to use the phone , I would imagine we would have seen outgoing calls on summer’s phone.
Is there proof that Joseph drove the Izusu to lunch with Merrit? Any witness of of Joseph in the car with a time frame? Susan said she talked to Jospeh and he said he had to pull over because he was feeling dizzy, but no record of him calling her.
I still have not seen anything conclusive that shows that Joseph made it back to the house. IF Jospeh had been driving the Izusu that day, we know from the neighbors video that at least the Izsu made it back to the house, before 7:47 p.m. when video showed it leaving the driveway but , how do we know if Joseph had driven it back to the house previous to that?
Sorry if these questions have been answered already , lots of wheel spinning going on my part ( pardon pun)
Yes, my aforementioned possibilities still stand as well. To my knowledge, the only way it has been confirmed that Joey drove the white isuzu that day is through CM. I do not believe there has been any independent confirmation like through camera footage at chic fila, independent guests, etc.
It is my personal opinion that Joey did not back the truck in the driveway, and to answer your question- nobody can verify that it was Joey that drove the truck back to the home that day. For me, the ping study tells the story of this day better than that camera. It does not appear Joey was a GPS user- anyone know if he was an XM guy?
B
Scout says:
January 6, 2014 at 10:50 pm
Hi Scout! I just read through your post and the supporting links and I am really confused by the power they all seem to give DK. He seems like this tiny itty bitty terrorist stomping around yelling threats and behaving like the last person I would want to do any form of business with. I cannot understand why JM would have put up with such nonsense when he could have so easily been replaced by a million reasonable individuals with the same credentials and skills. In fact, I don’t see anywhere he has listed formal education so it would seem he would be thankful for the opportunity to grow his portfolio rather than hostile and controlling.
Doesn’t it seem odd? Most opinions of JM seem to indicate a laid back guy, who very much fit the CA surfer ideal, but SM has a different personality that seems even less likely to suffer a fool like DK. He texted her after they went missing and apparently dealt with her too in regards to the business and website. I don’t have much to say other than head scratching and questioning the entire dynamic. I have researched DK and I do think he’s a guy with a temper, but it seems his violence is reserved for women, which makes him a real coward to me. His behavior is questionable and the money transfers are sketchy, but if they were approved by MM, I guess they aren’t as criminal as I once thought. At least not insofar as he’s concerned. I feel like I know his type and it’s a lot of hot air and hype, but that’s just my gut instinct.
Blink…after reading the above linked article about the paddle out and the subsequent comments, it is my opinion that the ‘step-father’ mentioned (and possibly the extended-family member) are indeed Joseph’s step-father (Tom B), NOT Jonah’s step-dad M McF. I have watched all the available video reports from the paddle-out and saw TB interviewed and/or talking with other family members, but did not see hide-nor-hair of McF or Jonah for that matter. I have even been told that Joey’s eldest son did not attend the memorial service or paddle-out.
Susan’s former husband? Got it, thanks for the heads up.
B
Blink, I anticipate that LE will announce an arrest soon, and am kind of surprised it hasn’t happened yet. I still think the perp is the slender man in the border video with what I believe is in fact SM and the boys.
I have a question for you. I am aware of two border videos – the most commonly seen one showing them from behind as they approach the gate, and the other one I suppose you’ve also seen, showing them from their right side as they walk from left to right across the screen. Are you award of any other videos or pics from San Ysidro, such as video from the strip center where the Trooper was parked, etc.? thx
I have seen what I would term an unauthenticated video of the Trooper in San Ysidro, yes. So you apparently believe that SM and the boys traveled with this unidentified male to mexico, and yet landed murdered next to her husband and separated from the kids in a separate grave. In your theory how and why does that happen as you feel an arrest is imminent?
B
“Truth- I can tell you that there is significant financial data that has been verified and not released publicly. I would agree that ultimately who received what from whom is subject to interpretation, but account ownerships or “peer to peer” if you will, is not. 128 bit encrypted transactions are pretty trackable to owner for criminal subpoena. I expect that to happen in this case.
I would respectfully disagree that speculation about access tied to specific individuals is reckless when they are admitting to it in public interviews, and the receipts of both the withdrawal and deposit accounts are identified.”
“He was not part owner of the business, never had an interest stake or share, and as a matter of fact, was texting Joey and then Summer about payment of his fee, which did not match the amount taken in the first place. He had no access to the merchant or other business accounts although he tried to get EIP’s quicken backup file sent to him.”
I am in possession of considerable financial documentation, including documents that have not been released to the public. There is nothing in the documentation that clearly indicates who placed the order for new EIP Quickbooks. If your source is claiming that evidence indicates that Dan Kavanaugh ordered the Quickbooks program, your source is not giving accurate information. There are no documents indicating who ordered the software. There are several well meaning posters who claim to have extensive information. All financial documents were given to SDSD. Patrick is not even in possession of all of this information.
Financial transactions made during the first 96 hours and those who made the transactions are extremely important to this investigation. Attributing financial transactions to individuals without proof is not prudent. Various individuals involved with this case have admitted participation in many activities involving illegal financial activities. I don’t believe there is any evidence indicating that Dan Kavanaugh attempted to or ordered new financial software on February 6th.
Truth- for confidentiality reasons I cannot address all of your post, but as a follow up question, assuming you are not Patrick, how would you be in a position to know what documents Patrick McStay is or is not in possession of?
B
Looks like it was a Biker who found the McStays and not an Informant. Here is a link to a part of the recorded 911 call along with a brief transcript of the call. I was hoping it was an informant. Meaning the case was closer to being solved. Glad this rumor was clarified with substantiated proof.
http://www.cbs8.com/story/24378790/portion-of-911-call-in-mcstay-murders-released-to-cbs-8-news
Interesting that is being released partially- I requested it a few weeks ago.
They are still withholding the ID of the biker, and whatever else was discussed. I would also offer that a human skull was found a few miles away on November 5 that has not been identified. 2 human skulls in a week in the same area that are unrelated to each other is a statistical anomaly in the desert. Jus sayin.
I agree that if it was an informant that certain aspects of this case were already “underway” and known. If it was happenstance, than the post discovery habits and behavior of persons of interests, whether known or unknown is key.
If it is the latter, they are wise to release the COD. Angry advocates are quick with information.
B
Sunny says:
January 7, 2014 at 8:48 am
Blink…after reading the above linked article about the paddle out and the subsequent comments, it is my opinion that the ‘step-father’ mentioned (and possibly the extended-family member) are indeed Joseph’s step-father (Tom B), NOT Jonah’s step-dad M McF. I have watched all the available video reports from the paddle-out and saw TB interviewed and/or talking with other family members, but did not see hide-nor-hair of McF or Jonah for that matter. I have even been told that Joey’s eldest son did not attend the memorial service or paddle-out.
Yes, Joeys step dad not Jonah’s. Sad if Jonah did not make it to either, I thought I saw him in the water but there were many young men about that age and I do not have the best vision.
Blink Says
If it is the latter, they are wise to release the COD. Angry advocates are quick with information.
Is COD, cause of death? Did they release that? Sorry I am slow but I do not understand this post, Angry advocates are quick with info, has this to do with cause of death?
Truth says
. There is nothing in the documentation that clearly indicates who placed the order for new EIP Quickbooks. If your source is claiming that evidence indicates that Dan Kavanaugh ordered the Quickbooks program, your source is not giving accurate information. There are no documents indicating who ordered the software. There are several well meaning posters who claim to have extensive information. All financial documents were given to SDSD. Patrick is not even in possession of all of this information.
It is my opinion that Patrick McStay has said he knows who ordered the QuickBooks, but as far as I know he has not said who that was.
The Isuzu Trooper was found at San Ysidro Village Mall, blocks from the Mexican border on the night of Monday, February 8th. The strip mall is located very close to the paid public parking lot. The vehicle was locked and abandoned. The Trooper was towed from this parking lot to an impound because there was a two-hour parking limit violation.
“There was enough room for two adults and two car seats, but it would be incredibly tight for another adult to sit in the rear seat between the two oversized car seats. Also, between the two rear child seats, on the hump between the floor board, was Joey Sr. tupperware with asthma medication. The detectives told me this was important because it shows that there wasn’t an additional person in the car or the tupperware bowl would have been knocked over. In the rear of the car were the kitchen set of toys, etc.. Best to view either Disappeared or Vanished to see the still photos of items. I think it was on the Disappeared epidsode. The car was found in the locked postion. There were no credit card transactions after the Feb 4th, 2010. This four day gap between Feb 4 til Feb 8th 2010 has always bothered the detective and our family. There have been no confirmed sightings since Feb 4th 2010. The only possible video of the trooper was at 7:47pm of the bottom quarter panel of the vehicle. I personally saw this video and noone can be seen in the car because of the angles of the cameras. The video is time-signatured.”
http://www.mcstayfamily.org/new
Dugal spoke with the two security guards who had been on duty that night. They had first noticed the vehicle in the lot shortly after dark and, because the hood was cold, concluded that it had arrived around 5 p.m. When it was still there at 11 p.m., they called a tow truck.
The SUV yielded few clues. It was found locked, and fingerprints found on it matched the McStays’. Two child-restraint seats were in the back and some new toys, most still in their packaging, were in the rear storage area. Family members said one of the boys had a birthday a week before the disappearance.
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/may/30/local/la-me-missing-family-20110530
After the initial search began, officials found the couple’s Isuzu Trooper in a tow yard near the Mexican border. That vehicle is currently at the crime lab, Brugos said.
“Cars are typically towed from those locations when they are left overnight or longer,” said Brugos. “At best it would be considered irresponsible; at worst, something more sinister.” Investigators seized the vehicle immediately.
“It has been taken to the crime lab for processing,” explained Brugos. “In these types of cases, generically, we check with Mexican officials, contact Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), work with the state Department of Justice and see if there has been any action on [the individuals’] credit cards or any cell phone activity.”
http://www.thevillagenews.com/story/45499/
November 25, 2013
A spokeswoman for the sheriff in San Bernardino said Friday that the department now has all of the evidence gathered thus far, including the family’s Isuzu Trooper, which was found in San Ysidro four days after the family disappeared.
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/nov/23/mcstay-friend-chase-merritt-speaks-out/
For almost four years, the Isuzu Trooper has remained at the SDSD Crime Lab even though LE claimed that there was no evidence found in the SUV and there were no fingerprints other than those belonging to the McStays. SDSD decided that the McStay family had voluntarily left for Mexico, yet the Trooper remained at the San Diego County Sheriff’s Regional Crime Laboratory on Mt. Etna Drive in San Diego.
Why was the Isuzu Trooper never returned to the McStay family? Why was it important to maintain the Trooper at the Regional Crime Lab, even though SDSD was claiming that the McStay family had voluntarily left for Mexico? Why was the Isuzu Trooper quickly transferred to SBSD after the Victorville remains were identified as the McStay family?
The Isuzu Trooper is a crime scene.
Welcome to my wheelhouse Truth. The vehicle was not returned to the family because it did not belong to them, period.
According to Dugal’s interviews I have seen, he does not consider the trooper a crime scene based on any processing findings within it- and we are relegated to assume based on his comments that your basic field testing was done, sent to the lab or to LPU.
It was kept outside, in impound because SDSD took possession of it under warrant, but the tow company under contract would still have rights to get paid and SDSD is not releasing the vehicle to anyone that is not on the registration.
It was not held as evidence in a criminal matter because there has never been probable cause for SDSD to do so. It is not retroactive. The Trooper was transferred to the custody of SBSD because once the McStay’s were found, it is a POSSIBLE crime scene and will be processed accordingly.
Why do we care? A few things based on forensic protocol:
1. In order for SDSD to facilitate and request certain forensic analysis it must “field test” positive for trace elements indicating an event making it necessary in the first place, accompanied by it’s results in a subpoena. IE: blood, field hemo, blue star, etc. Had any of that been found, I can assure you that a criminal investigation would have been opened accordingly, and we all know that did not happen as SDSD position was they could never establish there was ever a crime, and it is not a crime to leave your home, or country, voluntarily.
2. In the event whatever CST processed the vehicle maintained samples still in appropriate conditions and standard chain of custody protocols- there may be some evidentiary value to date, but I doubt that highly.
3. Had the vehicle been processed as a crime scene previously, it would be subject to storage as evidence. There is a strict chain of custody and sealing process that CST/CSI adheres to and the vehicle would have been kept in an evidence bay, not the parking lot without any markers/tape/evidentiary markings to preserve the content, etc.
4. SBSD may have designated it as a crime scene based on evidence found at the recovery scene for comparison, but we cannot assume that the trooper is a crime scene without being designated same by SBSD.
5. The trooper may contain DNA or latents by someone who was granted access, or that matches other samples by some means.
6. As an example of above, let’s say for the sake of argument since we know DK and CM were at the house, and their DNA or some other linking result was located- unless it can be tied to the murders in some way, it is not considered anything other than a “finding” of known persons for what we call exclusion.
B
Truth- for confidentiality reasons I cannot address all of your post, but as a follow up question, assuming you are not Patrick, how would you be in a position to know what documents Patrick McStay is or is not in possession of?
B
I am not Patrick and I can not respond to your question. I do know that your information has come to you at least second or third hand regardless of any claims made to you by your source. Your source has no proof that Dan Kavanaugh ordered finacial software for EIP and I am not a Dan Kavanaugh fan.
Truth- for starters, I do not have one source. It is presumptuous of you to indicate you know any of them if I choose not to name them, it is also presumptuous to think multiple sources are even aware of each other in a matter like this. I absolutely agree that sometimes sources make accusations they cannot back up to either solicit further information or test the waters as to what someone may or may not know. Common investigative practice.
Lastly, I have been at this a while. There are reasons I have not followed up my piece with a second installment and I would offer that is because I know how to vett sources independently to meet my standard, and while I am making absolutely no specific allegations, just about every one of them has something to hide, something to lose, or something to gain. FACTS and evidence drive theory, not the other way around.
I would hate to be a publisher researching a prospective author on this case right now, I can tell you that straight up. Maybe we could agree on that
B
It is my opinion that Patrick McStay has said he knows who ordered the QuickBooks, but as far as I know he has not said who that was.
Patrick McStay did not do the financial research. He was given information, as was Rick Baker. SDSD has all of the financial information. Patrick McStay does not have proof that Dan Kavanaugh ordered financial software for EIP on February 8th, regardless of what he is saying.
Playing Devil’s advocate here Truth- how do you know Dan K has not admitted this himself already?
B
It seems that Patrick may agree with what DK said RE- DK having Mike and Susan’s consent for transactions RE EIP.
https://www.facebook.com/notes/search-4-mcstays/paypal-account-withdrawals/500076060032076
Patrick McStay Liz McCloskey – I think all the documents and the past emails between Joey and DK, along wit the paypal records and payments before Joey went missing are proof of that and also present a pattern of DK. It clearly proves he had no authority or he wouldn’t be asking Joey to send him money! Now after SB and MM took over that becomes a different matter.
I have to wonder if DK could have asked or encouraged Mike and Susan to try and keep EIP working with him (and Chase).
.
Lanni, IMO, Patrick McStay doesn’t appear to hold back much of anything. He seems to say what’s on his mind. He was quick to give interviews to the news station about DK, VJ,and MMcF. He also shared his comments about the incompetence of the SDSD and their handling of the case. If Patrick knows who ordered the EIP Quickbooks, I’m surprised he hasn’t revealed that information. Could the reason be because that person is Mike McStay? DK did say in his interview he was working with MM and SB at the time of the money transfers. Mike did take the liberty of running a check on Joey’s credit (as evidenced in the Tim Miller/Steph Watts video.) Could Mike McStay have been the one who ordered the Quickbooks? Is Patrick’s silence his way of protecting him?
Blink: “I have seen what I would term an unauthenticated video of the Trooper in San Ysidro, yes. So you apparently believe that SM and the boys traveled with this unidentified male to mexico, and yet landed murdered next to her husband and separated from the kids in a separate grave. In your theory how and why does that happen as you feel an arrest is imminent?”
1) Here is the less common border video, starts 57 seconds in in this video shown on CNN, with a highlight around the 2 adults and 2 kids: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMr6NpdxRNA
2) As to my ‘theory’ I had detailed it in prior posts. Please note that I posit it solely in the interest of justice hopefully being served. It is based on a love triangle. It is certainly not a new theory as others have suggested a love triangle. It pulls together a lot of unexplained facts (facts that many folks use conspiracy to try to explain), including the multiple graves and two sets of tracks leading to graves (both sets of tracks still visible at grave sites on google satellite maps today, the aerials predating the 11/2013 grave discovery), the Trooper parked at the border, the web searches about requirement to enter Mexico for adults/kids and search for anger therapy, the border video showing a woman dressed like SM and two boys wearing beanies crossing the border around the time the Trooper was parked near the border, the fact that the male in the border video does not resemble JM – much too lanky and hair too short, SM’s apparent unhappiness with at least some aspects of marriage as detailed in Baker emails.
The theory is that 1) SM was having an affair with unknown man, call him X 2)she wished to be out of her marriage and may in fact have, as CM suggested, been trying to poison JM with Visine or whatever 3)she wished to be with X, and X with her 4)X may have had anger issues, become impatient with not having SM for himself, worrying SM that X might do something rash and leading her to seek anger therapy for him 5) X did something rash – took it upon himself to remove JM from the picture by surprising and killing him on 2/4/10 6) X may have then informed SM of this using, say, TRAK phones 7)SM, shocked, rushed out of house at 7:47pm with boys to go to X, who dumped JM and SM phones 8)X buried JM 2/5 to 2/7, driving right up to grave site, leaving the tracks 9)with JM dead at the hands of X, SM has to run 10) knowing that no visas are required to get into Mexico, the 4 dump the Trooper and contents in San Ysidro and enter Mexico at 7pm on 2/8/10 as captured on 2 video cameras, with X being the slender male in video 11)if they were in fact sighted at restaurant in Baja (doubtful), X’s prints may be on the map they left behind which LE now has 12) intense stress subsequently, probably quickly, caused SM to go off the deep end and want to end it with X, leading X to have to eliminate her and boys to avoid life in prison – not sure how SM would have gained re-entry w/o passport 13)X killed SM and boys and buried them at a location that had worked for him in the recent past, hence the second set of tracks to the second grave (check google maps for yourself to see separate set of tracks to each grave) 14)I suspect that, contrary to media reports, JM was in one grave, SM and boys in other. Or, X may have buried boys in one grave, SM in second, and then, thinking perhaps JM grave had not been dug deep enough, placed JM with SM, which would account for the empty third grave….
3) X is not MM, MM, DK, CM, maybe VJ, but likely someone to date not mentioned as a POI
4) In this love triangle scenario, I would expect the case to be solved because SM’s communications – email and cell – with X would presumably have been uncovered by LE, which should have made X suspect #1 in 11/2013.
It is becoming more and more evident that given the totality of what we know, that the McStay’s paid dearly for someone’s transgressions. Either their own(as Blink has said unwittingly), or someone else’s.
I havent seen any one person involved with this family with the apparent means to “hire” anyone to do away with those two beautiful babies. Obviously speaking without experience, but I would imagine that that would NOT be cheap. Not to mention, I would also offer that those in the murder-for-hire business working as independent contractors, if you will, have some threshold that they are unwilling to cross?? Perhaps that is just more naive than I am usually accustomed to??
So that leaves the whole “extrememly personal/immeasurably angry” crowd. To me, this doesnt jive either because to be that close to be that offended, there had to be a level of awareness of the children. And the children are the key to this. Who could have done this to the children? IMO, had to be a stranger(to the family), and had to be one who has killed before.
Which leads me to this…
I don’t think we’ll ever know who actually killed this family. What were going to see is someone known to the McStay’s who perpetuated this crime in some way shape or form. They either blamed something on Joe unbeknownst to Joe, or not. I think(total speculation) Joe had a business associate(BA) involved in some sort illegal activity for a larger organization using EIP for a cover. I think Joe discovered this info and put a stop to it for the good of his business and livelihood. I think Joe learned far too late that this series of events put he and his family in harms way. I think this is supported by the fact that Joe did not enlist help from LE. I think when the buck was passed to Joe, unbeknownst to him, it got him and his family killed…
["(as Blink has said unwittingly)"]
lol…sorry Blink…should read: Unwittingly, as Blink has stated
The fact that CM brings up poisoning in regards to Summer poisoning Joe is interesting. I do not know if the remains could supply a tox screen but if they could…you might want to be proactive in directing interest against Summer being the person trying to poison Joe CM had lunch meetings with Joe. CM had dinner at the Mcstay”s home. One could surmise that he had opportunity to poison Joe as well. If Joe was talking to his Mom on the 4th and had to pull over because he was sick is it possible it was after his lunch meeting with CM. This is of course just my own opinion.
B:
“….Matt Schneider and Joaquin Quintero ( 2 of the buyers) have both since been arrested for pot rings.”
So it has been confirmed these are same men involved… wow?
Now why would they be interested in owning EIP? owning a chinese laundy instead of using?
I wonder If DK’s debt is owed to these two people/group/gang.
JM’s $100k is still in the bank last I heard so where I am going with this line of thinking with DK selling JM’s details and routine for possible abduction stumbles a bit there. $100k missing from SM account AND vehicle parked at border would have set the stage better if the stage was being set.
SO I am ( again) leaning again towards an emotional/family motive. Good god this is maddening. There are no straight lines to follow more than one knuckle up the branch.Too many shady ppl. IMHO
I often think what percentage of this crime was luck vs planned.
Bystander- I can’t quote a source, or should say won’t, but not only was that previously referenced $100k not in the bank, it was liquidated into other accounts not belonging to EIP. Sorry, not liquidated- I meant pilfered.
You said: I often think what percentage of this crime was luck vs planned.
Indeed.
B
Did EIP use bit coins?
question:
Chase Merrit said they had an order from Saudi Arabia, was that an order from an american company that was constructing over there? Did they actually use products from US or Mexico to build a fountain in a country where fountains are part of the cultural architecture for thousands of years?
Did Chase Merrit go to Saudi Arabia, hire local people to install, how did that all go down ?
It is just hard for me to imagine that buying a fountain in the United states, bringing over a welder to install it was cheaper than doing it locally in Saudi Arabia.
I have a friend who is a lighting specialist who got a huge contract from a US company that was building a hotel in Dubai during the boom, She was hired to provide her design expertise, but all execution was local to Dubai. She lived there for the year it took t complete the project.
How long was Chase in Saudi Arabia on this fountain ?
Having read this article http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2014/jan/05/stringers-paddle-out-mcstay-family/
& thanks for url, my 2 observations are
-Aranda has quite the picture
-the highest & best way to get the disappearance back OUT of FBI hands and into local police’s is a body find.
So perpetrators had strong motive to ensure the body find.
Needn’t be an informant at all.
An attenuated Tipee of an involved person just had to ride in the right place.
The role of serendipity in criminal matters is occasionally played by samaritan, indeed. 2 skulls, in desert, 6 days apart- 8 miles to be exact.
B
B
I find it very interesting that the local land fill is on quarry rd in victorville. More interesting is Osborne pipe and supply . Plumbing, sprinkler, irrigation. Closed on sunday. Potential to narrow down suspect. As in did JM do business there ? Did anyone else in this do business there ? Could a person steal/borrow a bobcat from either place?
Allison- I do not know that Patrick has not said who it was, just that all I read was he knew who it was. I do not even know if that is the truth and Patrick knows who it was. Some information Patrick came up with was it seems in a desperate attempt to get LE to handle this case better, so if he did by any chance make any false claims or edit any documents i could hardly blame him when his motive was finding his family or getting them out of harms way.
As far as protecting Michael it seems to me that would just depend on what day it was. i would assume a father has an instinct to protect his son however posts on his Facebook he blames his son for much.
Patrick McStay did not do the financial research. He was given information, as was Rick Baker.
Interesting that Patrick and Rick are in the same boat here. So Pat and Rick were given information, by whom would that be Tim Miller ? Who did the financial research, TES ?
lanni- how do you know who was “given” what research?
No, I can state absolutely TES is not in the business of, or possesses resources to research criminal cases they are requested to provide search resources for.
B
Bystander- I can’t quote a source, or should say won’t, but not only was that previously referenced $100k not in the bank, it was liquidated into other accounts not belonging to EIP. Sorry, not liquidated- I meant pilfered.
You said: I often think what percentage of this crime was luck vs planned.
Indeed.
B
indeed, Indeed and Indeed, all the comments that it had to be planned to a T, I see the opposite as possible.
Blink, what 100K are we referencing here, SM is that Summer?
@tiberious- Even if you just dial a number for a few seconds and hang up it seems that cell phone companies automatically consider it ’1 minute’ on your phone bill. I don’t think they would register it as ’30 seconds’ or ’10 seconds’ on your call log/bill.
Allison- Of course you could be right it just seems it would be odd for Mike to be downloading this when the date is taken into consideration. Because Mike still thought they maybe taking a vacation and did not report them missing till? The 13?
Blink Says
2 human skulls in a week in the same area that are unrelated to each other is a statistical anomaly in the desert. Jus saying.
LOL
Bip I respect your opinion
I have a few of my own
Summer was a little
Odd but I highly disagree
With that said
By no means would she poison
Someone
I used to call this case the good the bad
An the ugly, to bad its not the western days
Round um all up in a.jail till someone starts
Singing there all messed up
Does anyone know why sb did not report
Her son missing in a timely manner?
Lanni:
Blink, what 100K are we referencing here, SM is that Summer?
I’m sorry Lanni, saw that typo after I posted..should be JM’ accound not Sm but I guess she owned it as well.
So B can u reply as to the time it took for the $100k to be pilfered? I will assume (yes I know what they say about assumption ) the explanation offered was ‘expenses related to trying to keep EIP going’.. right?
Knowing that even that money was siphoned depresses me even more.
Reminds me of two quotes from movie ‘Carlito’s Way’:
Carlito: If you can’t see the angles no more, you’re in trouble.
Carlito: Oh, Jesus. Jesus Christ, look at you. You said they were friends, Guajiro. But there ain’t no friends in this shit business.
You’ve said this “It is my personal opinion that Joey did not back the truck in the driveway” several times now.
So do you think Joey had been disabled, his cell taken, & an abductor backed it in prior to leaving with the other 3?
http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/11/20/mcstay-family-murdered-will-desert-graves-yield-their-killers/#comments
I think he may have been intercepted on the way home, or given instructions with knowledge of a threat to Summer and the boys, or some multi-phased plan when someone called his cell from the landline.
Or, he arrived home, the offender was waiting at the residence where whatever the intention was- began. I base this on what I see as patterns in the calls that day, the very little known ping info, and how difficult it is to contain a situation with toddlers and parents with paralyzing fear and panic of imminent threat of death.
B
Hi, just wanted to say I love the site and the time and attention (facts) you put into each post. I find myself obsessed with this case. Who did it and why? I clicked the link to Precision Fire and am somewhat disturbed by some of the pics. Especially the one with the bobcat sitting in the background dated Nov 19, 2012. And the captions on the pics 7-15-13 “Almost like we were never there” 7-13-13 “Little truck ( w/Airbags) that CAN DO 1500 LBS Concrete” 7-13-13 “Mikey Likes It when a plan comes Together!!!!!” 3-14-13 “VIP Transport PIV – can barely tell we just dug a huge hole can you? — with Michael Mikey McStay.” MM knows a lot about digging. So his comment that he spoke with a rental place about bobcats when the family was found doesn’t sit well with me. I feel like he was so jealous of his brother. JM was all MM is not. I feel he knows exactly what happened. He could of easily lured JM out somewhere on the pretense he had this huge job and if he messed it up???? I am just constantly thinking how they all ended up dead. I also think MM was the one to try and get the quick books. Who loots the family bank accounts, sells off the possessions, “thinks” there will be shallow graves? Why did he look up JM’s credit history? His actions are so questionable to me. So many characters to weed through LE sure has their work cut out for them. I pray this case solves soon. Link to pics https://www.facebook.com/pages/Precision-Fire-Systems/271683076197741 Thank you again for your integrity. RIP McStays.
@Lanni, IMO, it’s odd Mike thought the family was on vacation. He claimed to speak to Joey every week. I would think Joey would have mentioned an extended vacation, if they were so close. Mike found the dogs roaming in the yard days after he knew the family was unaccounted for. Would a family go on an extended vacation and leave their dogs outside in the yard with no food or water? Also, if Mike thought the family was on vacation why did he feel the need to run a credit check on Joey and remove Joey’s computer from the home? I don’t believe for a minute Mike thought the family was on vacation.
Allison, Mike did not check on the house until the 13th. His Dad called him previously to check on the house, and to my knowledge he told him he was too busy with work, but I have seen allegations where he said he checked on them ( it is believed at this point that DK and CM had told Mike McStay what they found when they went there, but presented it as though he had gone himself, he did not.)
I do believe he thought that they had gone away for a few days initially, I do not think once he went to the house himself he felt that way any longer.
When are you alleging Mike McStay ran a credit check on Joey? Do you have a link for that? It is illegal to run a credit check on someone without a request and release to do so other than yourself.
If that is accurate, that would go into the wtf column for me.
B
Sorry Blink,
It is a comment on the comments “Truth” has been posting. As I am sure you know.
Patrick McStay did not do the financial research. He was given information, as was Rick Baker
This was not IMO but copied from a post by Truth
“The role of serendipity in criminal matters is occasionally played by samaritan, indeed. 2 skulls, in desert, 6 days apart- 8 miles to be exact.
B”
Exactly- I’m still not big on the random find story. Whoever made that call wasn’t just out there riding around and happened to look down at a skull. Hard to buy into that ya know?
Yes, because I don’t, lol. You know how close one would have to get to a partial human skull to know if it was human, if not pick it up?
B
It would be interesting to know where ‘Truth’ gets his/her information. I have always heard (read on Patrick’s page) that Patrick did indeed do much research with assistance from a friend or 2 of Joey’s. It is my understanding that Patrick obtained much of his information via Joey’s and/or Summer’s emails and from business contacts he had access to because of his own prior involvement in EIP.
Truth has the right to anonymity here just as anyone else does, and he/she has the right to assert their opinions as well. I do not believe Truth could have first hand knowledge of what any person has in their possession in terms of evidence or source information and documentation. This case is about to be 4 years old with the investigation basically starting over to include resources that were not available previously.
As an example, RB wrote an entire book that turned out to be absolutely wrong, and there are allegations I have seen that include fabricated information. I have no idea if that is true or not, but my point is, if research over that time netted a completely erroneous account and outcome, why does anyone put so much stock in what already exists as it is?
That was the reason for my publisher comment. I know there are folks shopping book deals in this case and it is a serious problem because everyone is running around saying they have verified data, and if not, a fresh accusation of a salacious nature with no regard to the fact it cannot be refuted because the woman it is in reference to was murdered with her family, presumably not from food she made. ( yep, snark- that pisses me off and it will not be discussed here whatsoever and if I find out someone paid for that trash I might sign you up for a jelly of the month club)
B
Thank u b for saying what I don’t
Know how, slashing someones
Personality when not alive to defend
Themselfs is not fair and does not
Help this case, anyones life looked
At and dragged through mud
Would look not so rosie
Blink says: “Truth has the right to anonymity here just as anyone else does, and he/she has the right to assert their opinions as well.”
Not debating this, just wondering about the source of knowledge he/she keeps alluding to…he/she does not say it is their ‘opinion’, but rather states, in a very matter of fact way that, “Patrick McStay did not do the financial research. He was given information, as was Rick Baker.” (see comment #23 on this page)