McStay Family Murdered: Will Desert Graves Yield Their Killers?
Deserted in the Desert
Gianni Family Photo
Gianni Martelli McStay had rock star hair at only 4years old. His little brother Joseph, affectionately nicknamed Chubba- did as well. They both rocked a beanie like no other little dudes.
Chubba Family Photo
Gianni and Chubba were as inseparable in life as they were in death when they were recovered in a shallow grave in the Mojave Desert on November 11.
Their parents, Joseph, 40 and Summer McStay, 43, were located in a separate grave nearby.
A 3rd gravesite was found-but empty. A protected source not authorized to speak to the media has confirmed that at least one of the parent’s remains was bound by an electrical cord.
While formal DNA comparisons and autopsy protocols are pending, the manner of death in all four victims have been declared homicides.
Just about 50 yards off the intersection of Route 15 and Quarry Rd the family that San Diego County Sheriff’s Department (SDCSD) believed was “likely” voluntarily missing on their own and living in Mexico, was recovered in a 30 hour excavation process. An off road motorcycle enthusiast called the San Bernardino County Sheriff when he came across what he suspected was human remains.
Last April SDCSD forwarded the McStay case to the FBI based on their conclusions that the McStay’s had McGone to Mexico, following a lengthy complaint of their handling of the case by Patrick McStay, Joseph’s Father. Troy Dugal, previous lead investigator of the McStay case, appeared on several news and cable television programs over the last three years explaining there was “overwhelming” circumstantial evidence the family of four that was pictured crossing the border into Tijuana, Mexico the evening of February 8th, 2010 was in fact, the McStays.
Following the recovery, San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Office will maintain jurisdiction of the investigation.
Frenemies.. Frenethieves.. Friends.. Family or Cartel?
Who brutally murders innocent children and dumps them in a hole they dug in the desert?
Logically- someone who is very familiar with the area. Of course it is just as shocking and horrific to murder anyone, but it takes a specific brand of evil to murder a baby. Make that two.
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that either Joseph or Summer McStay had any ties to drugs, associates with ties to drugs or cartel, at any time. None.
Contrary to a top selling book on the case, “No Goodbyes” by Rick Baker, there has never been any evidence whatsoever that Summer McStay was some sort of closeted psychotic and homicidal type. The book goes on to malign members of both Joseph and Summer’s families and in some cases outright accuses same of extortion or stealing. Baker’s subsequent public theory is that Summer murdered Joseph and everyone should be looking for her and the boys in Mexico.
Not surprisingly , Baker has requested Amazon pull his book from available stock and has offered refunds to prior purchases. Popular online sleuth sites previously promoting “No Goodbye’s” have since either deleted it’s hundreds of posts endorsing Baker, or moved them to a member’s only private viewing area.
Albeit obtusely, Baker does touch on a troubling and serious abuse allegation concerning Joseph McStay’s oldest son from his first marriage, Jonah, and his step-father, Michael McFadden. He writes summer filed a complaint with Child Protective Services after she and Joseph recorded a conversation with Jonah and placed a copy of same with a private party for safekeeping. Blinkoncrime.com has been able to independently verify that is accurate, but that the investigation was not known to be completed until shortly after the McStay’s disappearance. Under California probate law, Jonah would be an heir to the McStay estate or as otherwise provisioned in the instance of an existing will.
Interviewed by Laura Ling for E! Investigation, Joseph McStay’s web administrator Dan Kavanaugh claims he was the first to become concerned. In Baker’s book, he refers to him as a suspect and details how he alleges he was funneling cash from McStay’s business account before he or anyone else knew the family was missing. Kavanaugh has an unrelated open criminal matter in San Diego County according to court records.
Chase Merritt- Joseph McStay’s business partner in his water fountain design and installation business was the last number ever dialed from his phone at 8:28PM on February 4th. Merritt joined McStay in a lunch meeting earlier that afternoon where they discussed a proposal for a very large car wash chain to feature custom fountains in each facility. According to family friend MacCargar McGyver, McStay was very excited about the opportunity. Merritt claims he passed a voluntary lie detector test, and that he was adamant that Joseph McStay would never have taken his family to Mexico and has always believed they met with foul play.
McGYver spent several days leading up to February 4th at the McStay home due to a painter Summer hired not returning to complete the job. McGyver introduced Summer and Joseph and by all accounts was a close confidant of the couple.
Patrick McStay, Joseph’s Father living in Texas has had some harsh words for the investigation into the disappearance of his son, daughter in law and grandsons.
“…most botched, inept investigation I’ve ever seen in my entire life.”
He also believes very strongly that the list of suspects with motive to kill his family members is very short. Three, to be exact.
He said the department didn’t even bother to contact him to tell him his son’s remains had been found.
“I got a message from someone [on Thursday] on Facebook telling me to go and read an article,” McStay said. “The minute I read the article, I knew it was him.”
“I have exhausted and have so much information on three possible persons of interest. All have a motive.”
The three individuals are not connected to each other, but all of them seem like likely candidates. Patrick says one of them seems to be a particularly likely suspect: he’s a wealthy man with a long rap sheet that includes charges of attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon and burglary. McStay says he, too, has a motive for killing his son.
Although Mr. McStay did not reference him by name, he may be referring to Michael James McFadden, who was arrested in July 1998 and charged with attempted murder and a litany of other felonies including great bodily harm to a child:
459/460(a) PC – Burglary 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Assault 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
273.5(a) PC – Domestic Violence 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
12022.7(d) PC – Infliction of great bodily injury on a child under the age of five … 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Assault 07/16/1999 02/25/2000 Dismissed
240 PC – Attempt to inflict violent force on another person. 07/16/1999 02/25/2000 Dismissed
245(a)(1) PC – Assault with a deadly weapon other than a firearm 07/16/1998 01/18/2000 Pled Guilty
12022.7(d) PC – Infliction of great bodily injury on a child under the age of five… 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Criminal Terrorist Threat 07/16/1999 01/18/2000 Pled Guilty
664-187 PC – Attempted Murder 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
You will note some of the charges are from 1998, others 1999 on the anniversary date, McFadden successfully negotiated a plea agreement and only pled to criminal terroristic threats and assault with a deadly weapon other than a firearm. Both felonies.
In the complaint he lodged against the detectives in SDCSD, Patrick McStay specifically references failure to interview key suspects he provided to LE directly.
Given the location of the bodies, it would seem that whoever is responsible would at least want investigators to think McFadden was involved. As a self-proclaimed mountain bike “racer”, McFadden has participated in several bike events in various locations all along the Route 15 Mojave corridor. SBCSO says they will be re-interviewing everyone in the case and have no suspects.
There have been no named suspects to date and the investigation is ongoing. Memorial or Funeral arrangements for the McStay’s have not yet been announced . LATE EDIT: The family and friends of the McStay family will gather at the grave site in Victorville, on Joseph’s McStay’s birthday.
To be continued in Part 2: Analysis of the last day of their lives points to involvement by someone they knew.
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@Blink – I do have a link. Here is a video of Mike stating he did a credit check on Joey.
Mike McStay – “I ran his credit report, sorry TRW, but I had to get my brother…”
0:03 on the video time stamp
Exclusive Video inside the Missing McStay Family home. Part 1
Steph Watts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbvPKlj_a5M
Blink- Oh yes Michael not only did a TRW credit check on Joey but he shared it with Tim Miller and the world via video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbvPKlj_a5M
Part of the issue I guess is some folks are not honest or bluffing because IMO people have said that TES- Miller had a wealth of financial info on this case and shared that.
What I am saying is that TES is not an investigative agency. If they professed to have financials of any kind in this case ( which btw are the private property of the owner’s) they retained someone in some capacity to get them, or they were given to them. Yes, Mike McStay running a credit report on his brother is illegal. He alludes to that and apparently did not care, however, I would offer that I do not understand how that equates to finding his brother when LE was already monitoring accounts and that would include his credit profile. What did he need that for?
I does not provide individual credit transactions but it does provide credit line amounts and balances of course. Were they used or attempted to be used?
B
BLINK SAYS_ I think he may have been intercepted on the way home, or given instructions with knowledge of a threat to Summer and the boys, or some multi-phased plan when someone called his cell from the landline.
Or, he arrived home, the offender was waiting at the residence where whatever the intention was- began. I base this on what I see as patterns in the calls that day, the very little known ping info, and how difficult it is to contain a situation with toddlers and parents with paralyzing fear and panic of imminent threat of death.
Do you see Summer backing it in, to remove items she had in the back (Large Toys she seemed to have covered maybe hiding a gift?)
I agree in that I just think Joey’s it seems he got interrupted maybe never came home, someone maybe had his phone or control of him. But I tend to think he did not come back and someone either just went to the house for Summer and the boys or there was some text exchange and they got her to believe she was going to meet Joey. If Joey was disabled prior to coming home the perp(s) also would have his car and keys to the home. One would think they could dig up some video to at least confirm Joey did indeed drive the trooper.
No, I don’t think Summer backed it in, and I doubt they were putting the kitchen set in the garage because it would not have fit- it was stuffed. I believe the items were covered to avoid detection when the kids were in the vehicle.
B
Allison-
Well if Mike is the one that downloaded the quicken and Patrick is protecting him, that would seem like a real problem. Simply because of the date being the 8th. These stories have changed as far as when Chase went to the home or maybe it is just that we did not hear from Chase before. But IMO with what Mike has said, he was not alarmed enough to call in LE till he got a call from animal control and he felt they may have done a “10 day” vacation.
Now I do not know why he ran Joey’s credit (maybe he was looking for a recent loan or info on money his brother could be using to live. But the date he did this was weeks later not back when he said he thought they were on vacation
Lanni, Mike went to the home on the 13th, NINE days after the family was seen or heard from. Mike found the dogs roaming in the yard. That alone should have a been a red flag something was wrong. Mike claims he spoke to Joey on a weekly basis. According to Joey’s phone logs posted on Baker’s blog, there is proof Mike had phone contact with Joey twice the week prior to the 4th – on Jan. 29 and Feb. 1. If Joey was taking an extended vacation, and Mike and Joey were close as Mike claims, I would think Joey would have mentioned an extended vacation. If Mike thought the family was on vacation, why did he remove a computer from Joey’s home prior to a warrant being obtained? What was Mike looking for if he thought the family was just on vacation? Why not simply call Mike or Summer to confirm there whereabouts? Mike’s behavior is questionable, IMO.
If it is true that only one of the parents was found bound, I lean toward JM not making it back home that day. Could it be that someone came to the home to collect SM and the boys, or someone lured them out to where JM was being held? It’s pretty clear that JM was surrounded by nefarious types in his business, and these individuals could have been using the business to front criminal activities without JM’s knowledge. If this was the case, and JM discovered these criminal transactions, he likely paid with his life. But, why SM and the boys? Why was it so important to wipe out this entire family?
I find it very odd that CM is so focused on denigrating SM lately, even casting her as someone who could have harmed JM. I know he is trying to sell his book, but….who does this to his “best friend’s” wife especially when she and her little boys met the same horrific end that JM did?
WTH is WRONG with these people? Draining JM’s accounts, selling the business – all before anyone knows what happened to the family? Now, trashing Summer? It just goes on and on, doesn’t it?
I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall in some of their homes when it was announced that the remains of all four were found.
You know it Ma’am Grace- absolutely and well said.
B
Has anyone ever heard an explanation from
Sb as to.why she took so long to report her
Son missing?
Regarding the Trooper – my guess would be that it was SM who backed it in to make it easier to unload the purchases later on, perhaps with Joey’s help. But then the no doubt shocking events of that evening kept that from happening. I doubt the perp was in the house that day…
Bip, are you reading this thread and all comments please?
B
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/mcstay-241230-michael-family.html
“A private agency, Texas Equusearch, joined the search by flying small drones about 60 miles between Fallbrook and the border to take thousands of infrared images. Tim Miller, director of the agency, has said the drones did not uncover any useful clues.”
http://www.sanclementetimes.com/inde…t01returnid=99
The search continues for the family and aerial drones have joined in. With pinpoint accuracy, the planes can see the tiniest details, including footprints and clothing according to Tim Miller, founder and director of Equusearch. Along with the San Diego Sheriff’s department, Interpol (an international police organization) has joined in the search for the missing family.
“I’m frustrated that other avenues of the media have stopped covering our case,” Michael said. “It may not be a high profile case and there isn’t a ‘crime scene’ like other crimes but this is my family and my two nephews that are missing. They could certainly be in harm’s way and the nation needs to know about it.”
Equusearch will use their aerial drones to scan the San Ysidro border. Funds raised from online efforts have helped pay for the aerial drones.
http://www.mcstayfamily.org/equusear…les-of-roadway
Tim Miller, the founder and director of Equusearch, said detectives handling the case in California told the group they could use “as much help as they can get” in locating the missing family.
Miller said his crew will use drone airplanes that can spot footprints and clothing from above, as well as manpower to comb the nearly 40 miles of isolated roadway between the McStays’ home and the location where their car was found.
http://www.10news.com/news/22676691/detail.html
“Generally, if there’s an abduction or if there’s a murder most time I do not take them very far they don’t want to be traveling with a body in a vehicle,” said Tim Miller of Texas Equusearch.
Miller said the search would stretch from the family’s Fallbrook home to the San Ysidro parking lot where their white Isuzu Trooper SUV was found.
Drone pilot Mike Hennig said, “As we fly, digital camera systems on board … high-resolution, 9- or 10-megapixel digital cameras on board to do still imagery. We also use streaming video from the aircraft.”
The radio-controlled drone aircraft are based out of San Diego State University. When they are launched, they can search every inch of a 15-mile area in a matter of minutes. The drones feed high-resolution digital images and GPS locations back to the search team.
“If we find something of particular interest in an image, all the material that is recorded in the aircraft is GPS logged so we can sit there, find the image, pull the GPS data and be able to direct people on the ground to search specific areas,” said Hennig.
Texas Equusearch claimed one search with a drone aircraft can take the place of 100 ground searches. In the past three-and-a-half years, seven bodies were found, and two people who were still alive. With science on their side, the group hopes to find the McStay family alive.
Anything that’s found during the search this weekend will be turned over to San Diego County Sheriff’s investigators on Monday.
The searchers and drone pilots are all volunteers, and SDSU helps program some of the software used in the search-and-rescue missions.
http://www.mcstayfamily.org/a-drone-is-being-used-in-the-search
A Drone is Being Used in the Search
February 25, 2010
Does anyone have any information about this drone search? What were the results? It certainly is a shame that the drones didn’t fly north of Fallbrook.
I do. Nothing noteworthy and no anomalies detected.
B
Sunny – perhaps you should ask Patrick where he got his financial research.
Grace in the hills writes:
Could it be that someone came to the home to collect SM and the boys, or someone lured them out to where JM was being held?
———
Well, you know me, I hate to get a theory and then look after the fact for confirmation- but yes, this certainly fits, imo.
Soemone apprehends Jospeh, stashes Joseph somehwere, then takes Joseph’s IZUSU to SM to gather up her and kids to take to Jospeh. We don’t know what was said to Summer to get her in that car- but whatever it was was enough to get her to take kids also.
I have always read that the doors were locked- and that the only way Mike McStay could enter the hop use later was to crawl in through a window.
Did the house have automatically locking doors, or did summer have time to make sure house was locked.
Because we see not contact between Joseph and anyone else after 5:47 p.m. ( not sure if that is correct time, but I know it was after 5 p.m.), and then we see the footage of the izusu leaving at 7:47, one could theorize that Jospeh was somewhere else, and someone took the Izusu to get SM and kids.
Obviously we are relegated to reviewing the contents and condition of the home after it had been compromised, however, a few things stood out to me.
1. rotten eggs, decayed fruit, current waste in garbage cans and a soiled diaper or pull up upstairs is going to produce some nasty Carrion.
2. I also recall Tim Miller saying someone had been eating upstairs when he looked inside the boys playhouse. Presumably he noticed food remnants.
If this house was closed up from Feb 4th through February 13th, I can tell you right now, there would have been colonies of flies in their 4th cycle of life that would have taken a bit to control, but would have been immediately apparent to the first person in the home.
My point is, with a missing family, and the carrion problem, if there was one and there should have been, is that it would be of immediate concern to a layperson coming into the house that there could have been a crime scene ( being intentionally vague). With the temps lower, this would have been more of a problem assuming the heat was set around 68.
If this was not existent, then I am telling y’all this home was ventilated by some means before February 13th.
B
Truth writes:
It certainly is a shame that the drones didn’t fly north of Fallbrook.
—
And the irony is that the distance from FallBrook to San Ysidro was almost the same distance as from Fall brook to Victorville. AND both towns are accessed by the 1-15. Take it north, you get to Victorville. Go south, you reach San Ysidro. Fallbrook is only a few miles off center of both locations.
fwiw, the desert terrain and identification of anomalies seen from a drone are next to impossible to to see. There would have needed to be some sort of clue or piece of evidence pointing to a reasonable perimeter and then juxtaposed with the most recent google earth or other Satellite pics.
It is the reason why our national geo-spatial experts have such a difficult time seeing IED’s to protect our soldiers in Afghanistan.
B
It looks like alot.of possible
Poi by.reading your.blog
Has le investigated sm
Ex husband? Not to add
More to an already long
List
Truth…I already have…it wasn’t from you.
I would appreciate it if we used BOC to progress dialogue that is ultimately helpful to the case, not for obtuse references about info that may be unavailable to other readers.
Thank you.
B
I watched Disappeared on Netflix streaming last night. The show involving the Mcstays is in the 3rd season first show. It’s interesting to listen to those involved being interviewed. I wonder if anyone has done a study on the words they used or the body language to see if there are any clues to be found.
I have learned a lot. This case is like no other. No press/LE/family keeping the public informed or pleading for info leading to resolution. I presume it is all figured out and kept from the public. I appreciate all the slueths , groups, websites, blink. We want justice to live in a peacefull world. Sitting back, waiting…
I agree that SBCSD feels they have what they need to begin the process of prosecuting this case.
B
The drone search for the McStays never took place. Tim Miller was uncomfortable after meeting Michael McStay and seeing the house. Tim Miller refused the case. Texas Equusearch then took part in the search for Chelsey King at Rancho Bernardo Community Park in San Diego County at the request of SDSD. TES returned to Texas the next day without looking for the McStay family.
http://victimsheartland.forumotion.com/t2638p50-joseph-summer-mcstay-children-missing-since-feb-2010-few-clues-a-year-after-mcstay-family-4913-sd-investigators-now-officially-say-the-mcstay-s-left-for-mexico-voluntarily-41009-fbi-takes-over-3-yr-old-search
MILLER: I believe that. Yes, I do. I mean, I was in their house, Jane. When I was in their house, I wondered where are their clothes at? I know this lady has more than two pair of shoes. And the high heeled shoes. And I asked Mike, she certainly is not working in this house doing construction with high heel shoes that have never been worn. Where`s his shoes? There`s not even one pair of his shoes in the house. And it was like there`s a lot of things that are gone. I know that they`re moving. But they still have to wear some clothes. They`re working their yard. They`re working on their house, they`re not wearing those type of clothes. And there was two shirts hanging in the closet of his and there are three coats of hers. And period, the end, that was it. It was just really strange.
http://www.sanclementetimes.com/inde…t01returnid=99
Equusearch will use their aerial drones to scan the San Ysidro border. Funds raised from online efforts have helped pay for the aerial drones.
http://texasequusearch.org/2010/03/improper-request-for-donations-mcstay-family-website/
Improper Request for Donations — McStay Family Website
Posted on 16. Mar, 2010 by smckinney in Featured News
03/16/10 — It has come to the attention of Texas EquuSearch that donations are being solicited on the McStay Family Website for travel and lodging for Texas EquuSearch, among other things. Texas EquuSearch paid all travel expenses, hotel bills, food and any other expenses that were associated with the search. No monies have been received from any donations made for the search for the McStay Family through their website. We did receive a $100.00 donation prior to the search through our Website. The proper way to make donations to Texas EquuSearch is (i) through our Website, or (ii) by check sent to our office. Unfortunately, if you have made a donation through the McStay Family Website intended for Texas EquuSearch, you will not receive a tax donation for said donation. While we appreciate all donations and requests for donations, they must be made in the proper manner.
Why did Mike McStay report on his website that the drone search had taken place? Why did he not update the site to reflect that the search was never done? Why did he report to the media that a drone search had been done? Why did Michael want the public to believe the drone search had taken place? Why did the website continue to collect donations for TES expenses when there weren’t any unpaid expenses? What happened to donations collected by the McStay website in the name of Texas Equusearch? Where were the family’s clothes?
Truth- not in a position to link it, but I questioned the drone search a few weeks ago and a poster came up with a news link that it occurred, and that it yielded no results- I don’t know where the outlet got that intel, however.
I recall there being some issue about Steph Watts allegedly impersonating a searcher and releasing case sensitive info? Is that tied to the issue about why TES pulled out?
I have seen some correspondence that Baker stated that TES billed Patrick/Michael, he apparently definitely did, and was asked by TES to cease making that claim as it never happened.
wrt the clothes, I have seen video/images of large bins with clothes in them, clothes in the laundry area, and a garage full of boxes and some bins. I don’t think anyone can say with certainty what was legitimately found in the home based on Mr. Miller’s observations as it was clear the home had been compromised by more than a few family members and LE. I also note Summer had a few jewelry items of value and have never read if any of that was recovered.
As far as Michael McStay’s comments or behavior following Joey’s disappearance I am very respectful of the fact that he loved his brother and family and is grieving deeply, but I would offer that in my experience of missing persons cases resulting in recovery of deceased- his actions are inconsistent with those of family members I have worked with- and I will leave it at that.
B
On March 18, 2010, Michael is publicly stating that donations to the McStay website will pay for a TES drone search, even though the drone search didn’t happen and Michael knew that TES had returned to Texas. Michael clearly says that “funds raised from online efforts have helped pay for the aerial drones”, even though TES had posted the Improper Requests for Donations on the TES website, dated March 16, 2010.
http://www.sanclementetimes.com/inde…t01returnid=99
Aerial Drones Join Search for the McStay Family
March 18, 2010
A San Clemente businessman and his family are still missing after six weeks. Joseph McStay, his wife Summer, and two sons Gianni and Joseph vanished on Feb. 4. Authorities have found the family’s SUV near the San Ysidro border but still haven’t found any conclusive evidence on their whereabouts. Phone records were given to Joseph’s brother, Michael, but provide no new clues. “I’ve confirmed that the day they disappeared was February 4 according to the phone records,” he said. “They show that he used about 3,464 minutes and after that date it’s totally blank, no pings, nothing.”
The search continues for the family and aerial drones have joined in. With pinpoint accuracy, the planes can see the tiniest details, including footprints and clothing according to Tim Miller, founder and director of Equusearch. Along with the San Diego Sheriff’s department, Interpol (an international police organization) has joined in the search for the missing family.
“I’m frustrated that other avenues of the media have stopped covering our case,” Michael said. “It may not be a high profile case and there isn’t a ‘crime scene’ like other crimes but this is my family and my two nephews that are missing. They could certainly be in harm’s way and the nation needs to know about it.”
Equusearch will use their aerial drones to scan the San Ysidro border. Funds raised from online efforts have helped pay for the aerial drones.
http://texasequusearch.org/2010/03/improper-request-for-donations-mcstay-family-website/
Improper Request for Donations — McStay Family Website
Posted on 16. Mar, 2010 by smckinney in Featured News
03/16/10 — It has come to the attention of Texas EquuSearch that donations are being solicited on the McStay Family Website for travel and lodging for Texas EquuSearch, among other things. Texas EquuSearch paid all travel expenses, hotel bills, food and any other expenses that were associated with the search. No monies have been received from any donations made for the search for the McStay Family through their website. We did receive a $100.00 donation prior to the search through our Website. The proper way to make donations to Texas EquuSearch is (i) through our Website, or (ii) by check sent to our office. Unfortunately, if you have made a donation through the McStay Family Website intended for Texas EquuSearch, you will not receive a tax donation for said donation. While we appreciate all donations and requests for donations, they must be made in the proper manner.
Looking back at the post Sierra says:
December 30, 2013 at 4:06 pm
Where she lists phone activities of the McStays.
I would be interested in seeing calls made to the McStay’s phones after they disappeared. Who attempted to call them? Sometimes what is missing may be more revealing that what is there. The guilty party may call (in case they think about the log being checked)to cover their behind…to enable them to say, “see I was concerned, I tried to locate them.” Or, the guilty party may not call, knowing that there would be no answer.
Yes, I do not understand to this day why there were no phone records past Feb 4th. Even if the phone is powered off one gets a voice mail and would show bounced texts.
B
I recall there being some issue about Steph Watts allegedly impersonating a searcher and releasing case sensitive info? Is that tied to the issue about why TES pulled out?
I recall that Steph Watts prematurely released case sensitive information. I am not aware that he impersonated a searcher. I believe the release of information was made on his blog and it involved information about border activities.
The McStay donation center on the McStay Famiy website did receive a bill from Texas Equusearch. TES did ask the McStay Family website to cease making specific claims. Claims about the drone search had been made on the McStay Family website and to the media.
It is my understanding that there were several reasons why Tim Miller chose to pull out of the McStay search. Some of those reasons would be inappropriate for me to release. Basically, Tim felt that the house did not resemble a scene where a family had been kidnapped or forced to suddenly leave. Tim Miller did not believe that accurate information was being given. A number of behaviors were questioned.
Tim Miller and the TES group who had traveled to San Diego County were helpful, though, in the search and recovery of Chelsey King. TES was originally in San Diego County at the request of Patrick McStay.
Found it:
http://sarstoriesnews.blogspot.com/2010/03/sar-impersonator.html
From above and is a news bulletin, not an article so posted in it’s entirety:
Saturday, March 13, 2010
A SAR Impersonator
This information was posted on the SAR-L email list and, with permission, I’m sharing it here in order to help spread the word:
During a massive search in the San Diego area, a man named Stephen Watts, a.k.a Steph (pronounced “Steff”), presented himself to the Sheriff’s Department and coordinating agencies as a member of 1st Special Response Group (1SRG), a known and reputable organization, in an attempt to insinuate himself into law enforcement search efforts. Soon after, Mr. Watts began blogging about his actions, including sensitive search information.
1SRG has never had a member, past or present, by this name or any reasonable variation, nor have they ever received and/or denied an application by such a person.
1SRG launched an investigation and determined that Stephen Watts is a freelance “investigative” reporter who provides titillating and “newsworthy” information to on-air broadcasts such as Nancy Grace, Greta Von Susteren, CourTV (now HLN), and other entertainment providers.
1SRG is sharing this information because Mr. Watts appears to have repeatedly joined with Texas Equusearch in their efforts and has made a number of other attempts prior to his actions in San Diego to insert himself into other search missions. He falsely stated that he was with 1SRG in an effort to further his own cause. Apparently, he has done this before, and 1SRG is concerned that he may try to do so again in the future.
From information obtained during the investigation, Mr. Watts arrived in San Diego, along with Tim Miller and Texas Equusearch, in the search for the McStay family. You can read the McStay relatives’ account of their experience with Mr. Watts at http://www.mcstayfamily.com/steph-watts-rumors.
While in San Diego with Texas Equusearch, Chelsea King disappeared, and Mr. Watts used that opportunity to get involved with a growing national news story.
After verifying their initial information with several agencies and individuals, 1SRG notified both the San Diego County Sheriff’s Department and the California Emergency Management Agency, the local SAR coordinator, state SAR coordinator, and, since this was an investigative effort that included federal agencies, contacts within the FBI. Based on further discussion, this issue is said to have been “handled and considered resolved.”
1SRG also attempted to contact Mr. Watts through his personal webpage, his Facebook page, a phone number he gives on his website, and through email, in addition to their posts on the SAR-L lister and elsewhere. Mr. Watts has not returned their contacts.
On March 12th, formal “cease and desist” letters were sent to Mr. Watts, CourtTV/HLN, Nancy Grace, Greta Von Susteren, and those agencies who employ Mr. Watts for their “news” services, instructing them that any attempt to use 1SRG’s name, logo, reputation, or other team affiliation would be met with legal action and that 1SRG would assist other SAR teams who may find themselves in a similar position.
This information is being provided in the attempt to stop Mr. Watts from breaching law enforcement and search mission security as he seeks confidential or legally protected information, as well as to protect both 1SRG and other SAR teams from those same efforts.
Not making any judgements one way or another about Steph- I was not there, but it seems there is/was a definite accusation about him impersonating from the search organization.
B
Yes, I do not understand to this day why there were no phone records past Feb 4th. Even if the phone is powered off one gets a voice mail and would show bounced texts.
B
It is my opinion there are phone records past feb 4th, for Summers phone. if a phone is dead and the battery is dead I assume no records as in Joey’s phone after the 6th.
But I have been told there are no phone records that exist after February 4th, 2010. That is my point, that if it was removed from power by some means, it would still have billable past Feb 4th to include voice mails, etc.
B
How could they say her phone sat there from the 4th to the 6th unless they have that info? Have said the phones were in the same place that riverbed or rather pinged off that tower and Summers was working longer then Joey’s she got texts on the 5th which for some reason concerned Michael. I posted it twice
Day Joeys phone stopped pinging
http://www.sanclementetimes.com/aerial-drones-join-search-for-the-mcstay-family/
while here he says the 4th, Joeys phone
It is now being reported that the call to Merritt was made from within a one-and-a-half mile radius of a cell tower that sits beside the old Bonsall bridge that spans the wide and densely overgrown bed of the San Luis Rey River.
The mobile phone belonging to Summer McStay registered its final call at 4:42 that same Thursday afternoon. Disconcertingly, though, her phone continued to receive text messages after the disappearance – eight, in total. Three texts sent by family friend McGyver McCargar arrived on Friday. The last four texts, including two messages from Dan Kavanaugh, an associate of Joseph McStay, arrived on Saturday. The final text message registered at 10:59 a.m., presumably just before the mobile phone’s battery was exhausted.
Some of these text messages to Summer McStay pinged the same T-Mobile tower as Joseph McStay’s phone call on the night of the disappearance. The other text messages pinged a companion tower on the opposite side of the river.
“Summer McStay’s phone was not buried, and wasn’t submerged. It was not broken. It was switched on, and for two days it was within reach of the T-Mobile tower by the old Bonsall bridge.”
http://letsfindthem.wordpress.com/2013/03/29/the-mystery-of-the-mcstay-family-disappearance/
mcstay-family-disappearance
Again I am looking what agrees with what I heard at the time which had to do with online posts by family and yeah I verified who was who
On the subject of Mike McStay I just do not think he had anything to do with harming his family and think it would be good if somehow issues with him could be separated from making him seem as if he did.
I dont know what that means
B
Michael clearly says that “funds raised from online efforts have helped pay for the aerial drones”, even though TES had posted the Improper Requests for Donations on the TES website, dated March 16, 2010.
Well maybe they did? If you read up on the Drones, TES did not own them or fly them.
That is correct. TES contracts those resources regularly.
B
Here is a video where LE says that what Tim said about the house is not correct- the condition. Now I am not saying Tim was wrong only that perhaps things changed in the time between when LE saw it and he saw it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DArKclK5_Yc
There are comments and video that has been removed, but Tim did say on JVM he felt the trip was a waste of time and money, its too bad if others in the family along with LE helped him decide that.
Truth says-On March 18, 2010, Michael is publicly stating that donations to the McStay website will pay for a TES drone search, even though the drone search didn’t happen and Michael knew that TES had returned to Texas. Michael clearly says that “funds raised from online efforts have helped pay for the aerial drones”, even though TES had posted the Improper Requests for Donations on the TES website, dated March 16, 2010.
Well Truth, TES had a box with the Mcstay family photo an story and a request for donations for the McStay family and this remained up long after Tim left Calif, after he went on JVM and said it was a waste of time, and if you what all you are saying is true, he never worked the case and bailed to the King case (I do not agree) then I would think maybe TES should have pulled their request if they were not going to help.
My thoughts on that are this- If that is correct, and TES was responding to a request from the family to use their resources in a search effort, to find out that McStay was seeking donations on their behalf ( the donation button should have linked directly to TES to eliminate this problem) that were not going to them and for some reason based on the preliminary team’s assessment that they needed to pull out, I do feel it appropriate for TES to recoup whatever out of pocket expenses they incurred to do so. TES is a non-profit volunteer organization -
B
So does a phone not track missed calls and texts even if the battery is dead? I always assumed that after I recharged my phone, all my calls and texts that may have come in while the battery was dead, would show up.
Yep. Only way it would not is if it was suspended from service. According to everyone that was calling him left and right since the 4th, and leaving voice mails, I have yet to hear of anyone retrieving any or seeing any subsequent call detail. I do not believe it does not exist. That’s crucial evidence.
B
Blink, what 100K are we referencing here, SM is that Summer?
I’m sorry Lanni, saw that typo after I posted..should be JM’ accound not Sm but I guess she owned it as well.
So B can u reply as to the time it took for the $100k to be pilfered? I will assume (yes I know what they say about assumption ) the explanation offered was ‘expenses related to trying to keep EIP going’.. right?
Knowing that even that money was siphoned depresses me even more.
Reminds me of two quotes from movie ‘Carlito’s Way’:
BLINK-What is this about and what 100 grand was “siphoned” I thought the account was frozen and about 25G was siphoned from that account.
Can you elaborate is it because they did not freeze the business account? Did they freeze it or did MM, DK, CM, SB get to use that to keep open the business? Will they have a record of receivables say if a check came in the mail I would think it would have EIP on it and have to then go into an account to be cashed? This angers me because if they did not make money but lost any they really lost Jonah and Blanche’s money- more so because Joey and Summer would want that money to go to Blanche and Jonah respective and if they did have access to money where 100k could go MIA then it would seem they could have saved the home again to sell later for Jonah – Blanche or an executor could have been named to rent the home and pay the house-
Even when I get beyond the house issue. What 100k is missing? It must not be SM cause how would they get into her personal account(s), I assume it is not the account that was Frozen unless you are saying they cleaned that out before it was frozen? Or are you not saying 100k is gone but reference the about 25g to DK (according to Pat) and the 5g to MM to “keep open the biz or pay the child support or for whatever. Is there yet another account these folks found access to?
I never said 100K was missing. Although, if one is considering direct cash, then asset liquidation, then using business accounts that do not belong to you to the detriment of said business, I can tell you this is going to be a probate attorneys dream. I am not going to discuss specific financials outside of what has been made publicly available. What is indisputable is that it will all be public eventually- probate is. To my knowledge, Blanche never had any access to any accounts whatsoever.
B
Blink Says
My thoughts on that are this- If that is correct, and TES was responding to a request from the family to use their resources in a search effort, to find out that McStay was seeking donations on their behalf ( the donation button should have linked directly to TES to eliminate this problem) that were not going to them and for some reason based on the preliminary team’s assessment that they needed to pull out, I do feel it appropriate for TES to recoup whatever out of pocket expenses they incurred to do so. TES is a non-profit volunteer organization
I think TES had a right also because my opinion is TES did do work but what I was saying is that if what Truth posted was accurate (and I said I do not think it is) then TES should have removed the donate to McStay family button. In other words I do not agree with what she says. Have my own opinion and facts on what happened and why Tim pulled out. And when and what he did and I do not think he left for Chelsea King or at that point was even done with the McStay case. I think it just came up, he was here and he helped with the King case.
Ok, so what are your contradictory opinions about why TES left and would not work the McStay case for a recovery?
B
“On the subject of Mike McStay I just do not think he had anything to do with harming his family and think it would be good if somehow issues with him could be separated from making him seem as if he did.”
Lanni, are you suggesting that information should be censored if Michael McStay’s behaviors are in question? Do you realize how many questionable behaviors Michael has displayed? It’s certainly admirable that you feel Michael has done nothing to harm his family. At the very least, however, Michael and others have taken part in considerable financial harm to Jonah McStay, his nephew. Are you suggesting that these behaviors should not be considered?
I addressed this also, but according to Michael, he has actually enriched his nephew through direct support- not saying I believe that in the least- I am on record here on that whole McFadden allegiance oddity. Speaking of McFadden- have you any thoughts?
B
On the subject of Mike McStay I just do not think he had anything to do with harming his family and think it would be good if somehow issues with him could be separated from making him seem as if he did.
I dont know what that means
B
It means obviously he made some mistakes and as you have said did not or does not act the norm. Some posters flat out think he is involved in the murders and seem to take any post that points out any wrong doing, inconsistency, or behaviour that does not seem “normal” and then use it to further the idea he had something to do with the crime of murder. I do think you do a good job on this website being fair.
Thank you, and I will assume you are referring to other sites then, because I do not see anyone accusing Michael here, but the verified facts are absolutely fair discussion.
I will state my opinion again so that it is unambiguous. I do not believe Michael had any direct involvement in the deaths of his brother, sister in law or nephews. I do not believe the did anything willful to hamper this investigation.
Could something he did, said, acted on, in an unintentional way have been the impetus? That I do not know, I only pray that is not the case. As far as his actions and behavior following his brothers disappearance to include pilfering accounts, liquidating his brothers assets and taking control of his business et al- that I have to say is very concerning to me. It is my opinion he knew his brother was deceased- why else would he have felt any of that was ok?
That is my issue. His actions, his subsequent denials or ommissions to LE ( don’t even go there, I am not posting what I know, and it is verified but Michael knows exactly what I am talking about.) And the treatment of his Father at this time. I would include the false information wrt to the loan in 2007 where he claimed to be the president of EIP because Joey is not here to ask if he would have given his permission to do that.
B
“Not making any judgements one way or another about Steph- I was not there, but it seems there is/was a definite accusation about him impersonating from the search organization.”
B
I don’t believe this occured in connection to a McStay search. You asked if this was a reason why TES left the McStay case. I don’t believe there was a connection. Steph impersonating a searcher was with the Chelsey King search.
If that is the case I stand corrected, thank you.
B
Lanni says
“Michael clearly says that “funds raised from online efforts have helped pay for the aerial drones”, even though TES had posted the Improper Requests for Donations on the TES website, dated March 16, 2010.
Well maybe they did? If you read up on the Drones, TES did not own them or fly them.”
Lanni, if you will read the statement below from TES, you will see that they are clearly stating that they received nothing from the money collected by the McStay Family website that was solicited for TES expenses and a drone search. People donated money to the McStay website because they believed the money would go to TES expenses. TES is claiming that they paid all expenses, themselves. There were no drone expenses because the drones were never used, contrary to what was reported. Where is the money that was collected by the McStay Family Website from the caring people who wanted to help TES find the McStay family?
Truth- Lanni was referring to the fact that on TES’s on site it was seeking donations for the McStay search AFTER the notice of improper collection on the part of the McStay site and they pulled out. I addressed it as well.
B
Improper Request for Donations — McStay Family Website
Posted on 16. Mar, 2010 by smckinney in Featured News
03/16/10 — It has come to the attention of Texas EquuSearch that donations are being solicited on the McStay Family Website for travel and lodging for Texas EquuSearch, among other things. Texas EquuSearch paid all travel expenses, hotel bills, food and any other expenses that were associated with the search. No monies have been received from any donations made for the search for the McStay Family through their website. We did receive a $100.00 donation prior to the search through our Website. The proper way to make donations to Texas EquuSearch is (i) through our Website, or (ii) by check sent to our office. Unfortunately, if you have made a donation through the McStay Family Website intended for Texas EquuSearch, you will not receive a tax donation for said donation. While we appreciate all donations and requests for donations, they must be made in the proper manner.
http://texasequusearch.org/2010/03/improper-request-for-donations-mcstay-family-website/
Lanni says
Well Truth, TES had a box with the Mcstay family photo an story and a request for donations for the McStay family and this remained up long after Tim left Calif, after he went on JVM and said it was a waste of time, and if you what all you are saying is true, he never worked the case and bailed to the King case (I do not agree) then I would think maybe TES should have pulled their request if they were not going to help.
Lanni, do you have an idea how much was spent sending Tim Miller, Tim’s crew, and TES equipment from Houston to Fallbrook at the request of Patrick McStay? Just because Tim Miller was uncomfortable with what he found in Fallbrook and canceled the search, doesn’t mean that TES didn’t spend considerable amounts of money going to Fallbrook. I’m quite certain it took time for TES to recover those expenses.
Contrary to what you are saying, Tim Miller and TES did attempt to work the McStay case. They went to the border and they investigated the house. The condition of the house and the information they received from family members is what influenced their decision not to continue working the McStay case. They didn’t bail to the Chelsey King case. They successfully helped with Chelsey’s case because they had were already in San Diego County.
“I addressed this also, but according to Michael, he has actually enriched his nephew through direct support- not saying I believe that in the least- I am on record here on that whole McFadden allegiance oddity. Speaking of McFadden- have you any thoughts?
B”
Michael McFadden has a real bad record. He also has some accomplishments that include graduation from “diamond school” in Belgium and a successful career in jewelry. Many of the serious charges against him were dropped, but that didn’t make the remaining charges acceptable. He was physically violent and he had an affair with a woman who was dearly loved by her husband and son. I have to wonder if Rock Martin’s Laguna jewelry store was an incentive. Having said this, I don’t think he is the guilty party and I don’t think the CPS action is related to the family’s disappearance. He really had nothing to gain and everything to lose by harming the McStays. I think he’s smarter than that. His relationship with Joey’s family is interesting. Patrick’s focus is from much more than just a threat related to the CPS action. Patrick’s feelings are deep and personal.
You said:
Patrick’s focus is from much more than just a threat related to the CPS action. Patrick’s feelings are deep and personal.
How do you mean Patrick’s focus comes into the question about McFadden? You lost me there.
Do you have a link to McFadden’s certification from what I presume you are referring to is HRD Antwerp?
B
Lanni, are you suggesting that information should be censored if Michael McStay’s behaviors are in question? Do you realize how many questionable behaviors Michael has displayed? It’s certainly admirable that you feel Michael has done nothing to harm his family. At the very least, however, Michael and others have taken part in considerable financial harm to Jonah McStay, his nephew. Are you suggesting that these behaviors should not be considered
I am saying that I wish people would not leap to conclusions and\or take their theory, then get some facts and use those fact to make their theory work, sort of shoving in puzzle pieces making them fit where they do not. No I probably am not aware how many “questionable” behaviours MM has displayed. I have read plenty on how he does not make the right faces, left a tear on his check on purpose, and I do read PM face book page.
As far as things being censored, no I actually like this website which attempts it seems to keep things Kosher and on track, not allow facts to become misinformation when twisted to fit a theory.
Blink writes
It is my opinion he knew his brother was deceased- why else would he have felt any of that was ok?
——–
Well, the thing is that LE was rapidly going towards a ” voluntarily missing case” as opposed to homicide.
IMO, Mike McStay could have just been bumbling his way through without any real idea of where Joseph was, and whether he was dead or not, with no idea of any repercussions to the actions he( Mike Mcstay) took day by day.
I think if SDSD had said, this is definitely foul play, it would have been a whole different story, period.
So I can see where Mike McStay may have lost any faith in his own original idea that ” Joseph would never do anything like that”
With complete and utter respect, Mike McStay’s interaction with the press has not painted a picture of a stable, community involved, utterly trustworthy person with great strength of character. Could McStay have just thought, well whether he is dead or not, Joseph’s not here, better do whatever we can. Mike McStay says that in so many words , is repeatedly quoted as saying that he and his mother took over EIP to try to save it after Joseph’s disappearance. And its really clear – again with respect- that Mike McStay just didn’t know what he was doing.
The real key is did Mike McStay KNOWINGLY lie when he said he was head of EIP. Could he have been uniformed enough to actually believe that he could just step into that position without any legal protocol?
People lie when they don’t see how anyone else could know any different. This can be complete narcissism or just a perspective on life that the truth doesn’t matter.
If for example Mike McStay told someone he was the president of EIP< he HAD to assume that they would not have any info to refute that in a way that would end up with him being sued. If Mike McStay said he took money from the accounts to pay Joseph's child support, was he ignorant of the fact that all this was traceable? So was it ignorance or = was it an active choice to dupe – and if so, how can that be proven beyond doubt without an outright confession?
In my opinion, Mike Mcstay's interaction with the press has not presented him as cunning. David kavanaugh presents himself as " the brains behind the operation", and I think it is easier to view David Kavanaughs statements and actions as manipulative that it is to see Mike McStay in the same light.
So my question is, what was and is the nature of the relationship between Mike McStay and David kavanaugh? Patrick McStay has been quoted as saying that he ( patrick) was never consulted for any of the transactions re EIP, and that legally ,he should have been.
Did Mike McStay have legal advice at ANY point as to how to deal with Joseph's estate ( may be a rhetorical question, though I am not intending it to be)
IMO, Mike McStay could have just been bumbling his way through without any real idea of where Joseph was, and whether he was dead or not, with no idea of any repercussions to the actions he took day by day. He could have the kind of life that does not entail a great deal of responsibility and as such, assume that others are also in the dark.
By the way, speaking of DK, even in his angry email exchange with Joseph, they both refer to their long friendship, call rather other " brother" etc. Did DK go to his " brother's" memorial or paddle out?
Truth Says-
At the very least, however, Michael and others have taken part in considerable financial harm to Jonah McStay, his nephew. Are you suggesting that these behaviors should not be considered
Obviously all his behaviour is being considered, every word.
I have not seen facts that show MM has caused “considerable financial harm, to Jonah McStay”. I have read that $5,000 was transferred out of Joey’s bank but McStay said went to child support, if he has paid support all this time (since after account was frozen)then it remains to see where Jonah was harmed. However I lean to you being correct in that Michael and the others may have cause harm (with EIP)and trust this will come out and hope it will be made right, that if indeed they cost Joey money- they will have to repay it to the estate Jonah-Blanche.
It remains for me to know how Mike and Susan got involved with DK and Merrit. Who told who what and why each did what they did. I trust as Blink had said that Probate is public and then I will have a better idea of what happened and maybe why.
Lanni says
“Michael clearly says that “funds raised from online efforts have helped pay for the aerial drones”, even though TES had posted the Improper Requests for Donations on the TES website, dated March 16, 2010.
Well maybe they did? If you read up on the Drones, TES did not own them or fly them.”
Truth Says
Lanni, if you will read the statement below from TES, you will see that they are clearly stating that they received nothing from the money collected by the McStay Family website that was solicited for TES expenses and a drone search. People donated money to the McStay website because they believed the money would go to TES expenses. TES is claiming that they paid all expenses, themselves. There were no drone expenses because the drones were never used, contrary to what was reported. Where is the money that was collected by the McStay Family Website from the caring people who wanted to help TES find the McStay family?
It was actually from reading what you wrote that I felt you were saying TES bailed on the McStay family and went to the King case. I Felt that was what you were saying. Sorry if I misinterpret your post.
Where is the money that was collected by the McStay Family Website from the caring people who wanted to help TES find the McStay family?
You mean you don’t know?
Blink Says
That is my issue. His actions, his subsequent denials or omissions to LE ( don’t even go there, I am not posting what I know, and it is verified but Michael knows exactly what I am talking about.) And the treatment of his Father at this time. I would include the false information wrt to the loan in 2007 where he claimed to be the president of EIP because Joey is not here to ask if he would have given his permission to do that.
The loan concerned me a great deal. Not only because it may imply moral turpitude but a concern that if Joey did not know something about his company (or did not know about the loan), it could have caused some paranoid criminal to react.
TRUTH SAYS
The McStay donation center on the McStay Famiy website did receive a bill from Texas Equusearch. TES did ask the McStay Family website to cease making specific claims. Claims about the drone search had been made on the McStay Family website and to the media.
So, The McStay family Website did receive a bill from T.E.
I remember them saying they did NOT bill Patrick or Michael McStay.
Did anyone see the full video that Steph Watts posted of Tim Miller and what he said about the McStay family? He was in the garage at the McStay home. Steph only left it up for like a minute and its never to be seen again.
Blink says: I think he may have been intercepted on the way home, or given instructions with knowledge of a threat to Summer and the boys, or some multi-phased plan when someone called his cell from the landline.
Question: According to JM’s cell phone records, that have been posted on BOC, the only incoming calls to JM’s cell phone came from CM, with an additional text (from SM) and an e-note coming in at 5:47 pm. Do you believe this is telling?
Second question: When was MM’s lawsuit WRT his home loan settled? Does anyone have a link?
Every time I entertain alternate theories, I keep coming back to the fact that money was being moved around, and financial information was being sought before this family was reported missing. All other concerns pale in comparison to this activity, IMO. Any thoughts?
I am hopeful that whoever is responsible for this will be held accountable soon. I sat on a jury in SB County, in which the current DA was the prosecutor of the case. IMO, he will be a great asset to this case. He was brilliant and I felt that he truly sought justice for his victim. I am anxious to see this case solved and prosecuted.
1. To clarify, I did not post phone records here, a poster did, and therefore I can’t substantiate them. I would note that a true analysis in terms of profile or trend is really going to be based on several variables not present in “the day of disappearance”.
2. The calls and pings must also correspond to locations and frankly, witness accounts.
3. The fraud suit was not settled.
Who was the DDA in your case? No need to specify the case involved of course.
B
Sunny Says:
It would be interesting to know where ‘Truth’ gets his/her information. I have always heard (read on Patrick’s page) that Patrick did indeed do much research with assistance from a friend or 2 of Joey’s. It is my understanding that Patrick obtained much of his information via Joey’s and/or Summer’s emails and from business contacts he had access to because of his own prior involvement in EIP.
Sunny, in my opinion Rick Baker having also received that information clears up lots. Previously it was my opinion that only family would have that info and therefore Baker had to have received it from Patrick. But some of that did not make sense as I did not think Patrick would share some of this info with an author. Just the mention that both parties got information and Bakers statements about who told him what tells in what direction that information comes from.
Blink is correct that with Bakers book coming out as it did, maybe it should not matter. Except in the sense that at the time the information was given it seems to be with the belief that the family took off on their own and that MM was likely helping them if not involved in some kind of staging for some kind of gain. Perhaps the discovery has led to some bad feelings and folks wanting to at least make sure the info that was let out of the bag, is accurate?
Perhaps someone wants to make sure that information they or an organization that hired them gave out does not hurt this case?
Blink Says
Ok, so what are your contradictory opinions about why TES left and would not work the McStay case for a recovery?
B
I read Truth’s post wrong because I thought he\she was saying that they left in order to go to Chelsea case.
My opinion on why TES left is that TM believed the family to be missing voluntarily. His opinion of the state of the home seems to indicate the home was so disorganized that the family had some sort of issue. In knowing now that probably the home and state of it had been altered, have no way of knowing if TM was given an accurate picture of how the family lived. This includes him finding “no clues” and the issue of the clothing not being handy IMO. IMO LE told him not only about the tape and that they felt the family went to Mexico but also about MM and statements he made to them. IMO he does not look for voluntary missing people and felt he could not work with the family in this case.
Gonna be honest. I do not blame Tim or TES for choosing not to commit resources to the McStay case as was presented to him.
B
Not that
But I am so glad to see you!
B
link writes:
If this house was closed up from Feb 4th through February 13th, I can tell you right now, there would have been colonies of flies in their 4th cycle of life that would have taken a bit to control, but would have been immediately apparent to the first person in the home.
—–
Blink I LOVE this insight, so I delved deeper.
If the house was locked up so tight that Mike McStay ended to come in through a window, that would, imo,limit the activities of flies to what already existed in the house, dormant or otherwise and perhaps limit the access by carrion flies
Houseflies are primarily found in temperate regions. They are most abundant during the warm seasons, but some adults may survive through the winter season in temperate areas.
They are most active and live longest in temperatures between ( 50 to 80 degrees farenheit)
Adult houseflies are inactive at temperatures below 44 degrees farenheit) and die when temperatures go below 32degrees F or above 111 degrees f.
Extreme temperatures are most dangerous to the life of houseflies when the humidity is high.
IMPORTANT:Feeding larvae prefer temperatures between 86 to 90 degrees farenheit.
blow flies ( carrion flies)
Because the larval life cycle of this species is dependent on a climate with temperatures ranging from 55°F to 95°F, it tends to inhabit the northern regions of the United States during summer months and southern regions in the winter. Researchers have discovered,t at 104 f to 113°F, larval development occurs normally until the prepupal stage, at which point a majority of the larvae die and those that are able to pupate do not emerge as adults.
The lowest temperature threshold for this species was found to be 54 degrees farenheit and below; females will not oviposit at these temperatures.
The highest rate of development (with survival) was a constant temperature of 95°F, where the average time of adult emergence was 265 hours (about 11 days). Constant temperatures between 59 and 86°F (at 5-degree increments) developed slower, with the coolest temperatures taking longest. Cyclic temperatures ranges of 25 to 95°F and 59 to 77°F proved to decrease the rate of development when compared to constant temperatures. (The cyclic temperature data were collected by placing specimens in an incubator which steadily alternated between the maximum and minimum temperatures of a particular 10- degree range Each 10-degree fluctuation took place over a 12-hour span.)[5]
Weather in February 2010 in Fall brook California: – the average was 55 degrees farenhiet, with many days of lower temps at night.
http://weathercurrents.com/fallbrook/ClimateFebruary.do
To me, this looks like the optimum high temperatures for larva development and feedings of the common housefly or the blow flies grouping would not exist. IMO so sure that the house would have been so full of flies as to draw attention even when first entered. ( by whomever) And in all reports, there is never a mention of ” the house was full of lies because of the decaying food and diapers…”, as you point out.
wondering if the videos of the Mcstay house search that were posted on youtube,would yield info about the temp,
I clicked on this video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbvPKlj_a5M
It says this video was made in March 2010- (which would be month after the crime. The video does not specify which day. There was a high of 84F on March 17, and overall monthly average was 58.F. , but at this point the flit question would be long passed as the house had already been opened up etc.)
In it, at .07 there is a clear shot of the thermostat behind Mike Mcstay as he talks to the camera. But it is too small to see what that info is when you look at the video. If relevant, maybe it could be enlarged.
It is the kind of thermostat that would show what the temp was, and if it was on what the heating settings were.
In this video, you see everyone in shirts. One guy with a jacket with his arms crossed appears in the background at .18. You see him later in the video with his jacket on- a lined jacket- but it is open.
When they go outside, they are all in shirt sleeves, and it is a sunny day.
ANYWAY, ( and THIS is the point)
even though I went on the search looking for clues to temperatures s and flies ( I do love me some rabbit holes!), watching this video is interesting. Mike says a lot of stuff. worth a revisit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbvPKlj_a5M
Who- not understanding this sentence, please clarify:
You said:
To me, this looks like the optimum high temperatures for larva development and feedings of the common housefly or the blow flies grouping would not exist. IMO so sure that the house would have been so full of flies as to draw attention even when first entered.
Thanks, B
Blink writes:
You know what- I noticed it was not well written as soon as I clicked post. I’m sorry,
The sentence should have read: IMONOT so sure that the house would have been so fill of flies as to draw attention even when first entered.
But please let me try again to communicate my opinion.
To me, this looks like the temperatures ( and consistency of temps) that would in turn allow for full development and feeding for both blow flies and the common housefly (Temps. described above in my previous post) were lacking to the point that there may not have been the swarms of flies that we would see if the constant temps had been in the sweet spot for development, which is between 86 and 90 degrees farenhiet for feeding larva.
If there were great variances of temperatures, it would slow down development, and maybe knock a generation if there was a cold snap of under 54 degrees,.. and if the temps inside the house had gotten below 54, which is possible if the thermostat was off,, wouldn’t there be a mass of dead flies as a result.?
Would need to know what the temperature conditions were inside the house to get reliable info , imo.
Agreed that in any case, it is entirely possible the house was aired out, cleaned up and all sorts of things before being officially investigated.
I still think it is worth enlarging that thermostat appearing in the video to glean info, but don’t know if that is possible or would yield answers.
Again, sorry about my typo.
No problem but you are interjecting the thermostat being off, I have no evidence of that, in fact, I would offer that there was evidence that someone was painting that day as paint cans were left open and rollers in trays were out- nobody is painting in a house that is 54 degrees- all kinds of problems with that. Non-ambient temperatures can in fact slow down carrion cycles, that is true, which is why I stated the home had to have ventilation of some kind.
In a different case a few years ago I had to study entymology and I will be the first to tell you I can recite the cycle of the Diptera: Calliphoradae because it was a subcomponent of a wound identification exam. Without question I absolutely hate the subject matter and it was a grind, but necessary.
Not necessarily relevant in this case- but as a frame of reference if you are interested, I recommend studying the work of Neal Haskell. Dr. Haskell is also the leading expert in animal predation in and out of habitat and I would not be shocked to learn he has been consulted/retained by the prosecution in this case considering the state of the remains as they were recovered outside of the grave.
B
goofed again
should read IMO, NOT so sure etc.
Jeesh. I need to take a typing course.