McStay Family Murdered: Will Desert Graves Yield Their Killers?
Deserted in the Desert
Gianni Family Photo
Gianni Martelli McStay had rock star hair at only 4years old. His little brother Joseph, affectionately nicknamed Chubba- did as well. They both rocked a beanie like no other little dudes.
Chubba Family Photo
Gianni and Chubba were as inseparable in life as they were in death when they were recovered in a shallow grave in the Mojave Desert on November 11.
Their parents, Joseph, 40 and Summer McStay, 43, were located in a separate grave nearby.
A 3rd gravesite was found-but empty. A protected source not authorized to speak to the media has confirmed that at least one of the parent’s remains was bound by an electrical cord.
While formal DNA comparisons and autopsy protocols are pending, the manner of death in all four victims have been declared homicides.
Just about 50 yards off the intersection of Route 15 and Quarry Rd the family that San Diego County Sheriff’s Department (SDCSD) believed was “likely” voluntarily missing on their own and living in Mexico, was recovered in a 30 hour excavation process. An off road motorcycle enthusiast called the San Bernardino County Sheriff when he came across what he suspected was human remains.
Last April SDCSD forwarded the McStay case to the FBI based on their conclusions that the McStay’s had McGone to Mexico, following a lengthy complaint of their handling of the case by Patrick McStay, Joseph’s Father. Troy Dugal, previous lead investigator of the McStay case, appeared on several news and cable television programs over the last three years explaining there was “overwhelming” circumstantial evidence the family of four that was pictured crossing the border into Tijuana, Mexico the evening of February 8th, 2010 was in fact, the McStays.
Following the recovery, San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Office will maintain jurisdiction of the investigation.
Frenemies.. Frenethieves.. Friends.. Family or Cartel?
Who brutally murders innocent children and dumps them in a hole they dug in the desert?
Logically- someone who is very familiar with the area. Of course it is just as shocking and horrific to murder anyone, but it takes a specific brand of evil to murder a baby. Make that two.
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that either Joseph or Summer McStay had any ties to drugs, associates with ties to drugs or cartel, at any time. None.
Contrary to a top selling book on the case, “No Goodbyes” by Rick Baker, there has never been any evidence whatsoever that Summer McStay was some sort of closeted psychotic and homicidal type. The book goes on to malign members of both Joseph and Summer’s families and in some cases outright accuses same of extortion or stealing. Baker’s subsequent public theory is that Summer murdered Joseph and everyone should be looking for her and the boys in Mexico.
Not surprisingly , Baker has requested Amazon pull his book from available stock and has offered refunds to prior purchases. Popular online sleuth sites previously promoting “No Goodbye’s” have since either deleted it’s hundreds of posts endorsing Baker, or moved them to a member’s only private viewing area.
Albeit obtusely, Baker does touch on a troubling and serious abuse allegation concerning Joseph McStay’s oldest son from his first marriage, Jonah, and his step-father, Michael McFadden. He writes summer filed a complaint with Child Protective Services after she and Joseph recorded a conversation with Jonah and placed a copy of same with a private party for safekeeping. Blinkoncrime.com has been able to independently verify that is accurate, but that the investigation was not known to be completed until shortly after the McStay’s disappearance. Under California probate law, Jonah would be an heir to the McStay estate or as otherwise provisioned in the instance of an existing will.
Interviewed by Laura Ling for E! Investigation, Joseph McStay’s web administrator Dan Kavanaugh claims he was the first to become concerned. In Baker’s book, he refers to him as a suspect and details how he alleges he was funneling cash from McStay’s business account before he or anyone else knew the family was missing. Kavanaugh has an unrelated open criminal matter in San Diego County according to court records.
Chase Merritt- Joseph McStay’s business partner in his water fountain design and installation business was the last number ever dialed from his phone at 8:28PM on February 4th. Merritt joined McStay in a lunch meeting earlier that afternoon where they discussed a proposal for a very large car wash chain to feature custom fountains in each facility. According to family friend MacCargar McGyver, McStay was very excited about the opportunity. Merritt claims he passed a voluntary lie detector test, and that he was adamant that Joseph McStay would never have taken his family to Mexico and has always believed they met with foul play.
McGYver spent several days leading up to February 4th at the McStay home due to a painter Summer hired not returning to complete the job. McGyver introduced Summer and Joseph and by all accounts was a close confidant of the couple.
Patrick McStay, Joseph’s Father living in Texas has had some harsh words for the investigation into the disappearance of his son, daughter in law and grandsons.
“…most botched, inept investigation I’ve ever seen in my entire life.”
He also believes very strongly that the list of suspects with motive to kill his family members is very short. Three, to be exact.
He said the department didn’t even bother to contact him to tell him his son’s remains had been found.
“I got a message from someone [on Thursday] on Facebook telling me to go and read an article,” McStay said. “The minute I read the article, I knew it was him.”
“I have exhausted and have so much information on three possible persons of interest. All have a motive.”
The three individuals are not connected to each other, but all of them seem like likely candidates. Patrick says one of them seems to be a particularly likely suspect: he’s a wealthy man with a long rap sheet that includes charges of attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon and burglary. McStay says he, too, has a motive for killing his son.
Although Mr. McStay did not reference him by name, he may be referring to Michael James McFadden, who was arrested in July 1998 and charged with attempted murder and a litany of other felonies including great bodily harm to a child:
459/460(a) PC – Burglary 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Assault 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
273.5(a) PC – Domestic Violence 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
12022.7(d) PC – Infliction of great bodily injury on a child under the age of five … 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Assault 07/16/1999 02/25/2000 Dismissed
240 PC – Attempt to inflict violent force on another person. 07/16/1999 02/25/2000 Dismissed
245(a)(1) PC – Assault with a deadly weapon other than a firearm 07/16/1998 01/18/2000 Pled Guilty
12022.7(d) PC – Infliction of great bodily injury on a child under the age of five… 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Criminal Terrorist Threat 07/16/1999 01/18/2000 Pled Guilty
664-187 PC – Attempted Murder 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
You will note some of the charges are from 1998, others 1999 on the anniversary date, McFadden successfully negotiated a plea agreement and only pled to criminal terroristic threats and assault with a deadly weapon other than a firearm. Both felonies.
In the complaint he lodged against the detectives in SDCSD, Patrick McStay specifically references failure to interview key suspects he provided to LE directly.
Given the location of the bodies, it would seem that whoever is responsible would at least want investigators to think McFadden was involved. As a self-proclaimed mountain bike “racer”, McFadden has participated in several bike events in various locations all along the Route 15 Mojave corridor. SBCSO says they will be re-interviewing everyone in the case and have no suspects.
There have been no named suspects to date and the investigation is ongoing. Memorial or Funeral arrangements for the McStay’s have not yet been announced . LATE EDIT: The family and friends of the McStay family will gather at the grave site in Victorville, on Joseph’s McStay’s birthday.
To be continued in Part 2: Analysis of the last day of their lives points to involvement by someone they knew.
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I know I am belaboring the point, and please eggscuse this tangent-
but according to wikipedia, it can take up to three weeks for unrefridgerated eggs to go rotten. The explanation given is that eggs have a protective coating on the shell.
Conversely, another site states that US processing takes away that protective coating, and that is why eggs must be sold and kept refrigerated.
http://www.thekitchn.com/is-refrigerating-eggs-necessary-176617
In the media, there has been a lack of clarity and variance as to whether or not the eggs were rotten or if they were just found left out on the counter.
Mike McStay says he entered the hop use through a window on Feb 13. Did he find the eggs then and leave them there on the counter? They would have been out for 9 days at that point- and may not have had a rotten smell… SDSD did welfare check on the house on 10th, but did not go inside, they didn’t enter til Feb 19. Two weeks worth of sitting on a counter- would they have been rotten then, to the point of attracting flies?
Yes, it is curious.
btw, no one has refuted the full diaper- which would have been more attractive to flies that just about anything else, if temperatures were hospitable for flies.
Blink Says-
Gonna be honest. I do not blame Tim or TES for choosing not to commit resources to the McStay case as was presented to him.
B
The way it was presented to him is key here. It does not seem that what he was presented reflected the truth in the areas that seemed to matter most to him. That being said it is my opinion that he showed some poor judgement himself in that time period. Bringing along Watts and some of the comments that he made (which Watts then posted) bothered me a great deal. Its one thing to not take a case but another to intimate that taking it would be a waste of time and money. I hope some of that opinion did not come from SDPD. After all even if the home did reflect family life (and we know it had been tossed), and the parents had issues (and I can’t post what IMO he felt their issue was)there were two babies missing. TES may not have even been the best choice considering what they had at the time (IMO Patrick really wanted them involved)but to put it out there that it was a waste of time and money? How could finding or getting Justice for these boys be a waste of time? As a matter of fact with what he intimated about the parents, state of the home, and what I think he learned from LE, would be all the more reason to search for the boys because it would have meant the parents were not in the best shape to make those kinds of judgements when It came to the safety of their kids.
I really can’t comment on some sort of speculation that you are not willing to share, obviously.
I wasn’t there, and I do very much understand the frustration of the handling of this case in general, and the fact that TES was not able to help. What I can say without question, is that there was NO information to indicate the location of the family available to them to define a search parameter in the first place- and yes, I absolutely believe that SDSD told them they felt that the McStay’s left voluntarily. I don’t know what the purpose of Steph Watts filming was- if it was to chronicle the initial evaluation for TES exclusive use, then I support that.
The bottom line here is that in my opinion, if Tim did not feel TES has proper cooperation, and by all accounts it seems he did not feel he did, then his organization’s resources would not have helped the case, and would have been unavailable for those he could. Keep in mind, there are by-laws to TES- it is not his unilateral decision, whether he could or should have shared that with anyone at the time.
I can say with certainty- had Tim and TES felt they had enough to define at least a probability assessment to start a search grid of any kind he would have stayed and worked the case regardless of any sort of preconceptions about the parents or the McStay family. He worked the Anthony case and I can attest you have never seen a bigger bunch of con artist, carnival freak- lying sacks in your life. He weathered it as best he could, and all that mattered was recovering the child.
I would also offer that case changed the business model for TES out of necessity to survive it was such a drain on their resources- to this day.
B
I believe if he felt he had even half a chance to do that in the McStay case, he would have done everything in his power to do so.
Link to JVM where Miller makes his comments
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLH1x_x7JNY
Thank you for the clarification. I enjoy your forum very much, thank you for your efforts.
The case that I sat on was prosecuted by Mike Ramos. He is the current DA and I believe he will seek justice for this family.
He is stellar, I agree. I also agree that due to the high profile nature of this case, he will prosecute it himself- should it go to trial.
B
B – check http://www.villagelaguna.com in 2011. There was a feature article about McFadden and Antwerp experience.
Says that he “worked in Antwerp” Europe’s diamond district. I think you are going to have to take that info, and any notion he graduated from HRD Antwerp out of his “successes” column because it is BS.
B
Lanni says
I have read that $5,000 was transferred out of Joey’s bank but McStay said went to child support, if he has paid support all this time (since after account was frozen)then it remains to see where Jonah was harmed.
Lanni this child support claim is an excuse that has been put forward by Michael and a few of his uninformed supporters who help with his website. They seem to feel that because certain amounts of money may have been designated as child support for Jonah, that it somehow neutralizes the theft that took place. Please understand that every dime and every possession of Joey and Summer McStay belonged to Jonah McStay and Blanche at the moment of the McStay deaths. Joseph had no business partners in EIP. Anyone who transferred any money from Joey McStay’s bank accounts is facing fraud, theft, theft by wire, and wire fraud which will bring the Feds into the activity. Every object in the McStay home also belonged to Jonah and Blanche at the moment of the deaths of Joseph, Summer, and the boys. Anyone who sold or disposed of these items can also be charged.
Michael McStay and Susan Blake needed only to apply for a conservatorship or limited power of attorney, and Joseph’s affairs could have been legally resolved. It is an easy and fairly inexpensive process. It’s interesting that nobody chose to follow the appropriate and legal courses of action.
Truth, in theory and in accordance with CA probate law for persons dying intestate, I agree with you.
However, there are accounts of Joey’s for the Biz that were not in his name alone, so I would argue that the individual who also owned those accounts has claim and therefore remedy- potentially.
There is also the assumption that there was no will. We don’t know that.
The rest I agree with- and it is my understanding that as the deaths have become known, the financial institutions in question have been notified and have begun their own fraud investigation so whether or not LE/FBI/USPS chooses to file criminal charges, based on the Federal regulations of the institutions in connection and alleged transactions, THEY may, and they may also seek damages.
I would not discount the fact the probate investigation might not yield evidence in the criminal matter.
B
“Gonna be honest. I do not blame Tim or TES for choosing not to commit resources to the McStay case as was presented to him.”
B
I am in full agreement, Blink. I very clrearly said that there was information that would not be appropriate for me to post. There were issues in addition to the condition of the house that were important in the decision made by TES. One issue involved integrity and questionable statements.
Blink says
No problem but you are interjecting the thermostat being off, I have no evidence of that, in fact, I would offer that there was evidence that someone was painting that day as paint cans were left open and rollers in trays were out- nobody is painting in a house that is 54 degrees- all kinds of problems with that. Non-ambient temperatures can in fact slow down carrion cycles, that is true, which is why I stated the home had to have ventilation of some kind.
It is my opinion that the original painter returned, and that was why Summer told McGyver to come back Saturday instead of that Thursday the 4th although he was scheduled to. The painter was also there the day of the searches on the computer regarding travel to Mexico and had access. I also believe this is supported by Summer leaving the house that day with the boys to head to Ross. It is easier to get them out of the house and away from paint fumes.
As I have said from day one, the painter needs to be excluded.
B
This is a point of interest for me. McGyver claimed that he had been painting on February 3rd and he had cleaned the paint equipment. Who was painting on February 4th? Are there any reports of anyone being in the house to paint that day? Was someone in the McStay house that hasn’t been identified?
Yes, I feel it was not the best time for him, first CMA then the Cummings case (where he seems to have picked up Watts). He had delt with lots and I do not blame him if he did not want a repeat. Based on his comments after the family was found, LE yes told him they were voluntary missing.
However, there are accounts of Joey’s for the Biz that were not in his name alone, so I would argue that the individual who also owned those accounts has claim and therefore remedy- potentially.
Blink-are you saying that Patrick McStay and not Jonah and Blanche is the one who would have received and will received money in EIP accounts and that Patrick is who would have been entitled to EIP and any funds in EIP accounts?
I am saying only what you quoted by me above. I am not going to be more specific than that.
B
Could this be the issue with McFadden and McStay (Mike)? Is this what you meant by money deals or ties?
Lanni and everyone else who seems to feel that Joey’s finances were not illegally pilferred.
It could also become very interesting if the IRS besomes involved with this case. I seriously doubt that Dan, Michael, or anyone else who had their fingers in Joey’s wallet declared the money on their income tax returns. If money was in fact used to pay Joey’s bills, there will need to be proof of all billings, transfers of exact funds to pay those bills, and proof that the specified transferred funds were used to pay the specified bills. With no power of attorney or conservatorship in place, this accounting dilemma could get very interesting. The financial institutions have records that hold far more detail about the transactions than the receipts sent to Joey.
Joey has a tax lien as a result, so I would suggest nobody paid his bills. So.. btw, that comes off the top and gets paid from the estate.
B
Truth Says-
Anyone who transferred any money from Joey McStay’s bank accounts is facing fraud, theft, theft by wire, and wire fraud which will bring the Feds into the activity. Every object in the McStay home also belonged to Jonah and Blanche at the moment of the deaths of Joseph, Summer, and the boys. Anyone who sold or disposed of these items can also be charged.
Well Truth, then I will wait and see who is charged with what.
Michael McStay and Susan Blake needed only to apply for a conservatorship or limited power of attorney, and Joseph’s affairs could have been legally resolved. It is an easy and fairly inexpensive process. It’s interesting that nobody chose to follow the appropriate and legal courses of action
Could it be that they did not know they needed to take this course of action.
Truth Says-Joseph had no business partners in EIP. Anyone who transferred any money from Joey McStay’s bank accounts is facing fraud, theft, theft by wire, and wire fraud which will bring the Feds into the activity.
Blink Says-However, there are accounts of Joey’s for the Biz that were not in his name alone, so I would argue that the individual who also owned those accounts has claim and therefore remedy- potentially.
At one point it was said that Patrick put in 100G into EIP. I know he was a partner at one point. Perhaps it was till Joey paid him back his initial investment? So Blink, Mike and Susan do you think they would understand that Patrick was the one with rights to claim and\or would claim EIP as a business or it’s assets at some point? Patrick still insists that Joey would make millions in the coming years. Could Mike and or Susan have been trying to prevent Patrick from any gain. Sure seems like that is a complicated relationship.
I will say that Mike and Susan have been and are independent business owners- know exactly what the drill is. Michael was involved in the DP Naturally business. Regardless, it does not matter, the law is the law and they are knowledgeable. Michael was being sued for fraud at the time- hello?
B
Blink Says-, I would offer that there was evidence that someone was painting that day as paint cans were left open and rollers in trays were out-
I missed that. Wonder if on the 4th Summer had help painting leading back to the idea that an altercation could have occurred with her, leading to someone waiting for Joey. The phone records keep taking me back though to it starting with Joey. Been looking for comments I saw before that MM believed or believes Joey took his truck not the Bronco that day.
Was a 1996 Isuzu Trooper, not Bronco. See last post to Truth on the painter.
B
Blink writes;
No problem but you are interjecting the thermostat being off, I have no evidence of that, in fact, I would offer that there was evidence that someone was painting that day as paint cans were left open and rollers in trays were out- nobody is painting in a house that is 54 degrees- all kinds of problems with that.
—
blink, I wasn’t positing that the thermostat was off- and certainly don’t think it was while they were living there, painting etc- but without knowing more about thermostat , we ail never know what the temp was inside the house.
In Calif. where the weather is so moderate, sometimes people just use their heating on an as needed basis and turn it on manually, to save money..
Some people do it just at night, or set their thermostats on a timer, regardless of ambient temp. The video showed a thermostat that had the capabilities of using on a timer or manually, or being triggered by inside temps. Enlargement would show a lot.
all I was looking for was, would there be zillions of lies or not- to make a more complete context for what Mike McStay had to say about the state of the house when he crawled through the window., Its just such a great question to ask anyone who came in the house, I am almost sorry we are posting about it in case it tips off a POI.
Sierra says:
December 30, 2013 at 4:13 pm
wrt: Sierra- I deleted this because I was under the impression that it linked back to something already publicly available. As it does not, I would prefer to maintain the privacy of anyone that is not a business contact.
Thanks
B
B: How do you feel about info on an individual AG who stated that he considered himself Joey’s BF and AG is also listed as a RE agent with DC’s real estate company? and AG is also an electrical/lighting guy?
Note that one of Alan Geller’s phone numbers, (949) 682-5717 shows on Joey’s phone record as a text on 1/26 and then three more texts on 1/28.
http://www.sanclementetimes.com/local-businessman-and-family-reported-missing/
http://www.homes.com/real-estate-agents/alan-geller/id-11996062/
http://www.linkedin.com/in/alangeller
http://www.yatedo.com/s/companyname%3A%28Bulbtronics%29/normal
Alan Geller (of Vernazza Realty, Diane C’s company), says he considers Joey to be his best friend (but Joey has Alan’s number listed under his contact list as “Allen”).
I am ok with this post, but not the next one with the all the interactions etc because I don’t think you have established relevance. They were very close, his wife was Summer’s maid of Honor, I saw them at the Memorial, and unless you are expressing a scenario that is relevant, I am not clear why to post that at all- help me out if I am missing something.
B
“He worked the Anthony case and I can attest you have never seen a bigger bunch of con artist, carnival freak- lying sacks in your life.” – Blink
http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/11/20/mcstay-family-murdered-will-desert-graves-yield-their-killers/#comments
Triggered a belly laugh, thanks Blink. Reminded me of the numerous Clark Griswald rants throughout the “Vacation” movies!!
OMG your right, it does read that way. Don’t tell Eddie
B
Lanni says
Could it be that they did not know they needed to take this course of action.
Ignorantia juris non excusat, ignorance of the law is not an excuse.
Lanni, do you really believe that Michael and the others didn’t know that they were doing something illegal when they drained Joey’s accounts and sold his property? Do you believe that nobody offered advice to the McStays? I know that Michael received advice from others at various online forums he gravitated to. Regardless, ignorance is not an excuse. There are many free legal aid groups who Michael and Susan could have turned to for help.
My biggest concern was how individuals felt confident enough to make financial transactions from Joey’s accounts within 48 to 96 hours of the family’s disappearance. Patrick doesn’t have a receipt indicating the specific individual who ordered new Quickbooks on February 6th because the order was placed using Joey’s password and the EIP name. The Intuit online sales program thought it was sending the software to Joseph McStay/EIP. Intuit no doubt has other electronic records of the computer and the computer location that received the Intuit download, however. I have a feeling these issues will eventually get very interesting as fingers are pointed for survival.
Think about this….
If the McStays disappeared from their home at 7:47 PM on February 4th, it would probably have been at least close to midnight before the family was transported to Victorville and buried in the desert. This means that it could have been only 36 hours later that the Intuit order was made, if the Quickbooks were ordered before noon on Saturday, February 6th. Whoever ordered the Quickbooks knew that the McStays weren’t coming home.
Truth, I know this is to Lanni- allow me to weigh in.
You do not know what Patrick has, and I offer that because I do, and because SBCSD has specifically requested that not be released publicly. I respect that. I would also suggest that what DK has admitted to LE ( all agencies) has not been released publicly either. Me thinks Special K alluded to this in his last TV impromptu interview. If you will, let’s establish that it is known, and has been verified who ordered the Qbooks. I know you are new here, and likely new to my work, but any veteran reader here will tell you I never, ever say it unless it is verified.
Setting just that issue aside for a moment, there is other behavior that is consistent with one “presuming” that the McStay’s are not coming back. I submit the texting going on, first to Joey, the to Summer ( presume it went undelivered) from DK also creates a scenario for me where he is checking on both of these people individually. As if he received a warning, or some information he did not want to believe but wanted to confirm. Is this speculation on my part, yes, but it is experience and training based. He waits until the 9th to call Patrick. Day after the Trooper is allegedly dropped off.
Merritt ties to DK, DK reaches out to everyone, everyone beats feet to the cookie jar. Something was said/done/conveyed that allowed these people to think they can do this without detection or reprecussions and to date I do not think one of them has been forthright about what that is.
Do I think DK is the “Fredo” here? You betcha.
It is the only logical scenario. Not saying they all thought they were dead, but they all thought something collectively, and I want to know what that was- because it is the 300 lb elephant in the investigation at the moment.
Here’s a thought- how did he get Patrick’s cell number in the first place? His email?
B
Anybody know why all has gone quiet? The Facebook pages are dead. Baker pulled his page (says due to wife’s illness, but I wonder.) Patrick is silent. All a coincidence? Or was there a gag order put in place?
No gag order, but plenty of legal advice.
B
Blink – I might be new to this website, but please don’t under-estimate my information and sources. I will also say that many claims have been made by Patrick and Michael that are not accurate. There are many ulterior motives. When Joey disappeared, Patrick’s computer skills were not very good.
Truth- then I suggest you stop underestimating mine. I know who you are, you really think I would have allowed you to make the claims you have if I did not? I have a seriously strong track record and if your research or investigative skills were as strong as you would have us believe- you would have known that before you ever clicked on this site.
I am well aware of false and/or inaccurate claims of information in this case- which would be why it does not appear here unless it can be verified. What does Patrick’s computer skills or lack thereof have to do with anything? Not to sound like an ass- but out of everyone I have seen, heard, or interviewed in this case claiming to “have exclusive information” nobody else has, I would like to point out that out of E V E R Y O N E of you, I am the only one who has worked missing persons or homicide cases as an investigative analyst to successful recovery and adjudication.
So have a little respect for the work- shall we?
B
“It is my opinion that the original painter returned, and that was why Summer told McGyver to come back Saturday instead of that Thursday the 4th although he was scheduled to. The painter was also there the day of the searches on the computer regarding travel to Mexico and had access. I also believe this is supported by Summer leaving the house that day with the boys to head to Ross. It is easier to get them out of the house and away from paint fumes.
As I have said from day one, the painter needs to be excluded.”
B
Compare the phone records from the landline with the time of purchase at Ross. It doesn’t work. Perhaps someone else purchased four items for $66. A jacket, two beach towels, and child/infant pajamas. An interesting assortment.
Does not change my thoughts about my feeling the painter may have returned that day. I do.
B
“Says that he “worked in Antwerp” Europe’s diamond district. I think you are going to have to take that info, and any notion he graduated from HRD Antwerp out of his “successes” column because it is BS.”
B
Right, so I was asking what “diamond school” he graduated from- I still have yet to see that referenced anywhere. So perhaps you are mistaken about that.
B
I said that he graduated from “diamond school” in Belgium. I never associated him with HRD in Antwerp.
Has anyone here ever heard of the Brendel Family murders? Chilling!
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/family/hightower/1.html
Blink says…
Joey has a tax lien as a result, so I would suggest nobody paid his bills. So.. btw, that comes off the top and gets paid from the estate.
B
This will be just one more area where Jonah and Blanche will be financially harmed by Uncle Michael and his friends
Truth Says-
Lanni and everyone else who seems to feel that Joey’s finances were not illegally pilferred.
It could also become very interesting if the IRS besomes involved with this case. I seriously doubt that Dan, Michael, or anyone else who had their fingers in Joey’s wallet declared the money on their income tax returns. If money was in fact used to pay Joey’s bills, there will need to be proof of all billings, transfers of exact funds to pay those bills, and proof that the specified transferred funds were used to pay the specified bills. With no power of attorney or conservatorship in place, this accounting dilemma could get very interesting. The financial institutions have records that hold far more detail about the transactions than the receipts sent to Joey.
To Truth, From Lanni
I do not think I said that I felt Joey’s finances were not illegally pilfered. Seems to me I wrote of what I am aware of, which is what Pat McStay has posted that DK took near 25grand and Mike took 5g out of some account, he said for child support and the business. The fact is that I do not know. I am not the FBI and do not have access to what funds have been moved and by whom.
So, I will look for the Public Probate that Blink has taught me about, this I would think would give an idea even if it does not result in any criminal charges.
As far as accounting dilemmas if they do have some kind of court proceeding that will be interesting. However I fear it may turn out a he said she said situation. DK already saying he paid Chase, Welders, other people as a part of running the business and filling orders.
I simply say that I do not know and do not see any proof other than PM being very upset mainly over EIP. And posting paypal slips and letters or notes Joey has said to have written but contains the same spelling errors Patrick makes.
Blink Says
It is the only logical scenario. Not saying they all thought they were dead, but they all thought something collectively, and I want to know what that was- because it is the 300 lb elephant in the investigation at the moment.
Blink, this has been on my mind and I am dying to know not only what they thought but how they got the info. Was it shared (could one have manipulated tricked others into some belief) or did these have some previous knowledge and an idea just by previous knowledge.
Who Done It- Its exactly what you have been saying what about Joey’s life made “them” think they could do this or that. Except I also wonder if it could be that someone told some others what needed to be done and convinced them they needed to take these actions.
Truth–You switch the date back and forth from the Sixth to the Eighth and vice versa. I think on the 6th someone could not get into the quick books trying to hack or get a new password and then on the Eighth they downloaded a new copy. Who else would it be? If he did not do it himself the only reason I can think is he tricked someone else to do it, knowing he would get caught.
To shed a little more light on the painter and painting in temperatures at 54 degrees F.
If these painters are professionals, painting at that temperature is very possible. There are chemicals that can be added to paints that will allow them to be used as low as 35 degrees. This is something that professional painters do all the time in cold weather.
Most painting done by home owners is done with paint from the can with little knowledge of process or chemistry. The finished product by an amateur in that case is likely to be poor.
Stains and finishes today are available in water base as well as the volatile bases. The water base finishes were developed to keep the fumes of volatile bases from disturbing the olfactory sense of women and children as their sense is much more easily disturbed than most men. At 54 degrees F. the evaporation of volatiles is very slow and is hardly noticeable.
IMO, a professional painter could very well have worked with those temperatures.
Blink Says-
It is my opinion that the original painter returned, and that was why Summer told McGyver to come back Saturday instead of that Thursday the 4th although he was scheduled to. The painter was also there the day of the searches on the computer regarding travel to Mexico and had access. I also believe this is supported by Summer leaving the house that day with the boys to head to Ross. It is easier to get them out of the house and away from paint fumes.
What about McGyver returning to paint?
He never did
B
Thank you and WRT: Sierra says: January 10, 2014 at 3:25 pm
JM’s phone record shows 17 calls with Alan Geller’s phone number at Beach Cities Real Estate, SD. Beach Cities Real Estate Telephone: 949-310-7144 Address : 527 10th Avenue #411 San Diego, California, 92101, from 1/24 through 1/30. However, JM rarely responds back which seems odd given that AG has stated that he considered JM his BF. Only 4 of the 17 calls were outgoing to this number from Joey’s phone.
I don’t think we can assume that they did not communicate via email and chat or that anything was amiss from that?
B
The silence about painte1 has always been ominous.
I would be interested in how he was hired.
Craigslist? or referral from whom?
painter1 is a household interloper just prior to slayings.
Interloper with an unplanned break, requiring hiring the best friend. According to Patrick McStay, the painter was way-laid by a truck fire that kept him in Las Vegas for a few days until it could be repaired or he gained new transportation.
Edited After The Fact Upon Request: This is exactly what Patrick said about the painter wrt to the truck and why he did not return to paint as contracted:
Patrick McStay -Christine Hatfield- He was in Las Vegas and he claimed his truck broke down on the way back. He had to get his truck fixed and couldn’t get back in time. They knew him as he had done other work for them in the past.
The issue about the truck fire was my interpretation from a different source who used the term “truck burned up”
I can tell you his contact info was not in Joey’s phone and his license was expired at the time of hire- no permits were pulled for any work he did, if they were required. And.. he would have a valid need to want to know about traveling with children to Mexico. It is also my understanding he worked for the McStay’s previously, and helped pack belongings into their moving storage or “pod”.
Next to McGyver- he is one of 2 people that spent significant time in the McStay home in the days leading up to their disappearance. He was known to a member of Summer’s family, but I don’t know if that was through work he had done from them or some sort of existing friendship referral.
I am repeating myself as you undoubtedly recognize- he needs to be excluded.
B
With regard to the financial transactions that have plagued this case from the beginning:
Q. Do we know how much $$ is in Joseph’s account as of today?
I agree with the posts here that subversive movement of funds from one place to the next occurred very soon after their disappearance and by various players. But how much $ are we really talking about here? The “100K in the bank” figure has been out there since Day 1 but how much was really taken collectively and how much (if any) remains today? My point is that I agree someone may be “facing fraud, theft, theft by wire, and wire fraud” and it’s a “probate attorney’s dream” but will this ever see the light of a courtroom? We’re not talking millions or even hundreds of thousands of $$. If this information led to motives for killing the family that’s another story but I’m not feeling that either. Just my 2¢ for now. Thanks.
I think in theory we agree that the estate was not the motive for the killings if that is what you are ultimately saying. There are some calls leading up to and on the day of the disappearance that lead me to believe Joey was in touch with some of his creditors or accounts for some reason. Specifically, the day he disappeared, he spoke to a bank I do not know that he had accounts with so it is my belief he was verifying the amount of that check he was given, but that is supposition on my part. I do know I have been told that check (approx $15K) was deposited by Joey but I would say that has not been verified to my satisfaction but I have no reason to doubt it.
I do believe the PERCEPTION of someone as to how much money Joey/Summer had could have been important to someone potentially and in my view, that means available cash.
B
lanni says- what about mcgyver returning to paint?
what about summer painting herself? only an amatuer would leave the paint cans open.
Or someone interrupted.
B
Baker admitted the sources of his information.
November 28, 2013
Rick Baker
My Response to Mike McStay’s Post
Snip
It is true that my theories as to what happened to Joseph and his family were not correct. I worked with the documentation that I obtained. Some of this was given to me by friends who obtained it from Mike McStay. He had asked them to “hack” into Joey and Summer’s email accounts. Those emails were also given to me. Other documentation came from Patrick and Joey’s friends and business associates.
http://web.archive.org/web/20131218131636/http://www.rickgbaker.blogspot.com/
I have read to this day Patrick maintains that Baker has fabricated information that he got from no one. I don’t know if that is true or not. I do Know that I have read his book, I have read the source materials he references and I still have absolutely no clue how he theorized Summer murdered her husband- as well as some of some other rather negative inferences he certainly offered without any professional training, or consultation with an expert with experience in an appropriate field.
He owns his theory, he cannot blame it on the source material if that is what he meant by that. I have heard him say he got it wrong. The last interview I have heard of his he claimed that Mike McStay was in the home on February 5-7. Says he took the laptop then. How the hell does he misquote his own writing in the first place? I understand that his wife is ill, and would certainly support his efforts to help his wife through such a horrid disease, but let’s be honest. He deleted everything for the umpteenth time because of legal concerns.
B
Lanni says
Truth–You switch the date back and forth from the Sixth to the Eighth and vice versa. I think on the 6th someone could not get into the quick books trying to hack or get a new password and then on the Eighth they downloaded a new copy. Who else would it be? If he did not do it himself the only reason I can think is he tricked someone else to do it, knowing he would get caught.
You are correct, Lanni. The 6th was the date of the first financial transfer of $2000 from the bank account to the Paypal account. The 8th was the date of the Intuit order and download. Attempts had been made prior to the 8th.
In regards to the thermostat- I once toured an open house in Oceanside and asked about heat and air. There was none . Only an elec. space wall unit in the living area . They dont need either in that climate. The Mcstay home had a fireplace that would have probably been all.
The home has central forced air, one zone, and a sprinkler system. It definitely has a thermostat.
B
WhoDunIt Says
In my opinion, Mike Mcstay’s interaction with the press has not presented him as cunning. David kavanaugh presents himself as ” the brains behind the operation”, and I think it is easier to view David Kavanaughs statements and actions as manipulative that it is to see Mike McStay in the same light.
So my question is, what was and is the nature of the relationship between Mike McStay and David kavanaugh? Patrick McStay has been quoted as saying that he ( patrick) was never consulted for any of the transactions re EIP, and that legally ,he should have been.
Did Mike McStay have legal advice at ANY point as to how to deal with Joseph’s estate ( may be a rhetorical question, though I am not intending it to be)
IMO, Mike McStay could have just been bumbling his way through without any real idea of where Joseph was, and whether he was dead or not, with no idea of any repercussions to the actions he took day by day.
The entire separate issue of EIP lends itself to so many unanswered questions. Mike McStay clearly pointed to CM so why would he then have anything to do with him at all not to mention working with him at EIP. DK seems IMO to be the first to move in on EIP and its assets, then he says he worked with Susan and Mike to keep what “they” built from being lost. He refers to monies taken out of the paypal saying Mike and Susan new and he used it to pay welders (Chase Merrit), vendors and the like. Still wondering what DK said to MM and SB
Investigatively, CM would be the primary suspect immediately absent any others of merit (pun nothwithstanding) I think he has stated that as well. He meets every checkoff point on a POI list and according to him he passed a polygraph. I reserve my thoughts on that until I could actually review the test analysis to include the pre-interview.
B
McGyver
“I am repeating myself as you undoubtedly recognize- he needs to be excluded.”
By excluded do you mean by law enforcement or do you mean from the discussion?
By law enforcement.
B
Truth Says-
My biggest concern was how individuals felt confident enough to make financial transactions from Joey’s accounts within 48 to 96 hours of the family’s disappearance
So it is now more than one individual within the first 48-96 hours?
And these financial transactions were not something someone would need to have done, or done on a reg basis as a matter of protocol?
Truth says-
If the McStays disappeared from their home at 7:47 PM on February 4th, it would probably have been at least close to midnight before the family was transported to Victorville and buried in the desert. This means that it could have been only 36 hours later that the Intuit order was made, if the Quickbooks were ordered before noon on Saturday, February 6th. Whoever ordered the Quickbooks knew that the McStays weren’t coming home
First is the date the 6th correct for a download of the QuickBooks? Or is it the Eighth? You posted both. I understand someone attempted to mess with the password get into the Quick books on the 6th? Second your post whoever ordered the QuickBooks knew that the McStays weren’t coming home. That would be one conclusion. I think it depends on why this person or person needed to get into the Quick books.
Blink Says-
Merritt ties to DK, DK reaches out to everyone, everyone beats feet to the cookie jar. Something was said/done/conveyed that allowed these people to think they can do this without detection or repercussions and to date I do not think one of them has been forthright about what that is.
Or could it be that they believed or were led to believe that repercussions existed if they did not act or do as they did. That they were led to believe those repercussions were far worse than what they are facing.
Not following.
B
blink says- “they all thought something collectively”
picture this- CM does not get calls or his calls answered on fri. He is expecting calls as he just had a recent work meeting. He drives by, no trooper, dogs in yard. Same sat morning, no calls no trooper. Gets DK to call SM, no contact, then texts. CM and DK discuss CMs suspicion that Summer is up to something so DK hacks into biz books/accounts that early into it maybe thinking that SM will wipe it out.
The villainous Summer theory is unpopular and has hurt ppl. So how does CM feel comfortable writing a book to include Summer slander. Surely he has seen the backlash others endured for this. He has been quiet and carefull before. Hmmmm.
Simple. He needs cash. No overthinking required.
B
Allison says:
January 8, 2014 at 2:40 pm
@Blink – I do have a link. Here is a video of Mike stating he did a credit check on Joey.
Mike McStay – “I ran his credit report, sorry TRW, but I had to get my brother…”
I asked a loan officer who recently helped my brother get a home for his credit report just to make sure,’ said Michael. “Can you buy a house these days without your life in order?’
0:03 on the video time stamp
Exclusive Video inside the Missing McStay Family home. Part 1
Steph Watts
Truth Says-Think about this….
If the McStays disappeared from their home at 7:47 PM on February 4th, it would probably have been at least close to midnight before the family was transported to Victorville and buried in the desert. This means that it could have been only 36 hours later that the Intuit order was made, if the Quickbooks were ordered before noon on Saturday, February 6th. Whoever ordered the Quickbooks knew that the McStays weren’t coming home.
Why do you assume that whoever ordered the QuickBooks knew the McStay’s were not coming home? Also by this do you mean they knew the McStay’s were deceased or on the run for good? I would go as far as that most likely this person(s) did know they were missing at this time. That is why I said to Allison that if it was Mike McStay it raises issues. QuickBooks, I need to read up on what that is and what it is used for in order to answer fully. However, could this have to do with trying to cover something up? Needing to get into the QuickBooks? Could it be to hide something?
No. It is his accounting program. Assuming he used it for not only the biz accounts, but with the personal account linkages as well, it is at a minimum a snapshot of finances depending how he used it, and the version he was operating with. I say depending how he used it because it has very robust functionality to interface with multiple bank accounts, pay bills, pay vendors, pay oneself, if he paid vendors, etc, it would have their contact info, etc. If he had any clients or other vendors and employed EFT, it would have access to those accounts and reporting mechanisms for same.
As I read someone was trying to access his account online, I will presume he had online backup. In that instance it also may have all his pw’ds stored in it for each account.
Conceivably, it could have been someone’s agenda to just get the pw’ds to online accounts, etc.
Not intended to be an overview on Qbooks of course, just a few scenarios in the event Joey was doing his own books, ours interface with our CPA for quarterly’s and tax stuff. Had that been the case with Joey, generally one’s accountant has built in alerts for such attempts and would have been caught immediately.
B
http://web.archive.org/web/20131218131636/http://www.rickgbaker.blogspot.com/
Mike McStay: I interviewed Mike McStay on my radio show in May of 2011 and asked him a number of pointed questions for which I knew the answers. I knew these answers because I had talked to Tim Miller, from Texas Equusearch on the phone for two hours the morning of my interview. Mr. Miller had back out of the case after spending time with Mike McStay. When I asked the questions on my show, Mike McStay was not truthful with his answers
Blink Says-
Merritt ties to DK, DK reaches out to everyone, everyone beats feet to the cookie jar. Something was said/done/conveyed that allowed these people to think they can do this without detection or repercussions and to date I do not think one of them has been forthright about what that is.
Or could it be that they believed or were led to believe that repercussions existed if they did not act or do as they did. That they were led to believe those repercussions were far worse than what they are facing.
Not following.
B
It is just that with what seems to be so many con artists its hard to figure who could have told whom what story. An example- Mike and Susan are told early on that it is believed the family is being held for (whatever reasons someone wants to make up) and they need to raise enough cash for ransom.
There was never any ransom in this case received by anyone. Mike McStay stated this in several interviews.
B
QuickBooks has been around since the early 1990′s. It was originally designed for merchant accounts. The original versions were difficult for the average non-computer person to install and configure.
Later revisions improved the ease of installation and configuration. One still needs some experience with accounting and bank procedures to do a good job. With the cloud computing push of today, it may have a way to store the data in some off-site cloud data center.
ATG- it definitely does. I don’t believe it had cloud capability in 2010, but it definitely had online backup, real time transactions. IIRC, there was issue converting 2010 to subsequent updated versions, but it usually was handled with a tech support import if one could not accomplish that.
For me, the very fact that someone had to attempt to log into qbooks and did not know the PW- it negates the whole concept anyone ever had permission to it but Joey.
Btw, as an aside to all- I saw the FBI remove no less than 3 desktop drives/towers from the house. I saw earlier footage of Joey in his “home office” which leads me to believe his computers were on a network in the house. I mention this because it could definitely require additional forensic analysis should such info be needed.
B
Blink says:
I have read to this day Patrick maintains that Baker has fabricated information that he got from no one. I don’t know if that is true or not. I do Know that I have read his book, I have read the source materials he references and I still have absolutely no clue how he theorized Summer murdered her husband- as well as some of some other rather negative inferences he certainly offered without any professional training, or consultation with an expert with experience in an appropriate field.
He owns his theory, he cannot blame it on the source material if that is what he meant by that. I have heard him say he got it wrong. The last interview I have heard of his he claimed that Mike McStay was in the home on February 5-7. Says he took the laptop then. How the hell does he misquote his own writing in the first place? I understand that his wife is ill, and would certainly support his efforts to help his wife through such a horrid disease, but let’s be honest. He deleted everything for the umpteenth time because of legal concerns.
B
Blink, according to Baker’s comments found in Truth’s link, it appears he would be willing to go to trial with knowledge of his facts surrounding Mike, and his actions related to this case. I don’t know what Patrick claims was made up, but Baker must have some factual information, IMO.
From Truth’s link….
Rick Baker – “I hope this statement is clear enough for your attorney.”
In closing, let me be very clear in this message to Mike McStay: You lied to me on my radio show. Your behavior following your brother’s disappearance was reprehensible. Your refusal to go and check on your brother after repeated requests from your father; your handling of your brother’s bank and paypal accounts; and your handling of your brother’s customers – always excluding your father – all implied that you knew your brother was not coming back. I suppose that if this goes to court, the trial will be well-attended, informative and will bring final closure to this tragic case. A trial might be best for everyone – everyone except Joseph, Summer, Gianni and Joseph Mateo. They are the only victims in this horrific crime. Not, you, Mike McStay. I hope this statement is clear enough for your attorney.
http://web.archive.org/web/20131218131636/http://www.rickgbaker.blogspot.com/
I did not say that RB did not have some factual information. Indeed, I believe he did and does. What I said was Patrick is on record stating that RB has fabricated information( iirc, he refers to emails) that was not provided by anyone. If that is true, I will tell you from the perspective of an investigative journalist and criminal investigative analyst- If that were confirmed, there is not a peer around that would find a scintilla of his work credible ever again regardless, and that is a generous opinion. Depending upon what it involved, there may be plenty more to say and certainly could be actionable. That said, I can tell you he erased every question I ever asked to him about why he lied about being self-published. There is no excuse for sitting in interviews referring to “your publisher” . Like, there are hundreds of books sitting in my publishers office that I have asked not to be sold, we may give them to libraries, and ..” my publisher is trying to talk me into keeping the book for sale.”
These are not omissions but lies he offered publicly and he cannot erase.
I would also say RB has been very clear in my view that he does not believe Mike McStay is involved in his brothers death.
The reality is this. For reasons only known to him- he felt he could go so far out on the limb in this case that he could not get back and the limb broke. He blamed a loving Mother and wife for the fate of this family, to include murdering her own husband and diagnosing a woman he has never met with a psychological condition. Again, that’s a generous view.
He followed that up with publicly vilifying members of the McStay family in their darkest of hours.
As if these people were responsible for his egregious error in theory and judgement? Really?
If a writer, author makes this call, they need to expect the fallout from the fall.
As I said before, I am aware of the same info he is, and more, as their has been strong case development since he wrote it, obviously. I still maintain there is no responsible analyst or writer that would have posited such conclusions based on it so I can only assume it became an issue of what will market.
B
THANK YOU
Blink Says-I say depending how he used it because it has very robust functionality to interface with multiple bank accounts, pay bills, pay vendors, pay oneself, if he paid vendors, etc, it would have their contact info, etc. If he had any clients or other vendors and employed EFT, it would have access to those accounts and reporting mechanisms for same.
So this would be needed in order to keep EIP up and running, pay vendors etc. Anyone with motive to take over EIP (Hostile takeover)would need this?
What about the ability to delete name(s)and or contact information of client(s) or vendor(s)? To delete previous EFT’s? Deposits?
Finally to change future EFT’s.
Blink Says- Conceivably, it could have been someone’s agenda to just get the pw’ds to online accounts, etc. Is that basically what they would need to pay vendors, pay themselves? Could those passwords then be used to hide payments or hide something an audit would find or that Joey found?