McStay Family Murdered: Will Desert Graves Yield Their Killers?
Deserted in the Desert
Gianni Family Photo
Gianni Martelli McStay had rock star hair at only 4years old. His little brother Joseph, affectionately nicknamed Chubba- did as well. They both rocked a beanie like no other little dudes.
Chubba Family Photo
Gianni and Chubba were as inseparable in life as they were in death when they were recovered in a shallow grave in the Mojave Desert on November 11.
Their parents, Joseph, 40 and Summer McStay, 43, were located in a separate grave nearby.
A 3rd gravesite was found-but empty. A protected source not authorized to speak to the media has confirmed that at least one of the parent’s remains was bound by an electrical cord.
While formal DNA comparisons and autopsy protocols are pending, the manner of death in all four victims have been declared homicides.
Just about 50 yards off the intersection of Route 15 and Quarry Rd the family that San Diego County Sheriff’s Department (SDCSD) believed was “likely” voluntarily missing on their own and living in Mexico, was recovered in a 30 hour excavation process. An off road motorcycle enthusiast called the San Bernardino County Sheriff when he came across what he suspected was human remains.
Last April SDCSD forwarded the McStay case to the FBI based on their conclusions that the McStay’s had McGone to Mexico, following a lengthy complaint of their handling of the case by Patrick McStay, Joseph’s Father. Troy Dugal, previous lead investigator of the McStay case, appeared on several news and cable television programs over the last three years explaining there was “overwhelming” circumstantial evidence the family of four that was pictured crossing the border into Tijuana, Mexico the evening of February 8th, 2010 was in fact, the McStays.
Following the recovery, San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Office will maintain jurisdiction of the investigation.
Frenemies.. Frenethieves.. Friends.. Family or Cartel?
Who brutally murders innocent children and dumps them in a hole they dug in the desert?
Logically- someone who is very familiar with the area. Of course it is just as shocking and horrific to murder anyone, but it takes a specific brand of evil to murder a baby. Make that two.
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that either Joseph or Summer McStay had any ties to drugs, associates with ties to drugs or cartel, at any time. None.
Contrary to a top selling book on the case, “No Goodbyes” by Rick Baker, there has never been any evidence whatsoever that Summer McStay was some sort of closeted psychotic and homicidal type. The book goes on to malign members of both Joseph and Summer’s families and in some cases outright accuses same of extortion or stealing. Baker’s subsequent public theory is that Summer murdered Joseph and everyone should be looking for her and the boys in Mexico.
Not surprisingly , Baker has requested Amazon pull his book from available stock and has offered refunds to prior purchases. Popular online sleuth sites previously promoting “No Goodbye’s” have since either deleted it’s hundreds of posts endorsing Baker, or moved them to a member’s only private viewing area.
Albeit obtusely, Baker does touch on a troubling and serious abuse allegation concerning Joseph McStay’s oldest son from his first marriage, Jonah, and his step-father, Michael McFadden. He writes summer filed a complaint with Child Protective Services after she and Joseph recorded a conversation with Jonah and placed a copy of same with a private party for safekeeping. Blinkoncrime.com has been able to independently verify that is accurate, but that the investigation was not known to be completed until shortly after the McStay’s disappearance. Under California probate law, Jonah would be an heir to the McStay estate or as otherwise provisioned in the instance of an existing will.
Interviewed by Laura Ling for E! Investigation, Joseph McStay’s web administrator Dan Kavanaugh claims he was the first to become concerned. In Baker’s book, he refers to him as a suspect and details how he alleges he was funneling cash from McStay’s business account before he or anyone else knew the family was missing. Kavanaugh has an unrelated open criminal matter in San Diego County according to court records.
Chase Merritt- Joseph McStay’s business partner in his water fountain design and installation business was the last number ever dialed from his phone at 8:28PM on February 4th. Merritt joined McStay in a lunch meeting earlier that afternoon where they discussed a proposal for a very large car wash chain to feature custom fountains in each facility. According to family friend MacCargar McGyver, McStay was very excited about the opportunity. Merritt claims he passed a voluntary lie detector test, and that he was adamant that Joseph McStay would never have taken his family to Mexico and has always believed they met with foul play.
McGYver spent several days leading up to February 4th at the McStay home due to a painter Summer hired not returning to complete the job. McGyver introduced Summer and Joseph and by all accounts was a close confidant of the couple.
Patrick McStay, Joseph’s Father living in Texas has had some harsh words for the investigation into the disappearance of his son, daughter in law and grandsons.
“…most botched, inept investigation I’ve ever seen in my entire life.”
He also believes very strongly that the list of suspects with motive to kill his family members is very short. Three, to be exact.
He said the department didn’t even bother to contact him to tell him his son’s remains had been found.
“I got a message from someone [on Thursday] on Facebook telling me to go and read an article,” McStay said. “The minute I read the article, I knew it was him.”
“I have exhausted and have so much information on three possible persons of interest. All have a motive.”
The three individuals are not connected to each other, but all of them seem like likely candidates. Patrick says one of them seems to be a particularly likely suspect: he’s a wealthy man with a long rap sheet that includes charges of attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon and burglary. McStay says he, too, has a motive for killing his son.
Although Mr. McStay did not reference him by name, he may be referring to Michael James McFadden, who was arrested in July 1998 and charged with attempted murder and a litany of other felonies including great bodily harm to a child:
459/460(a) PC – Burglary 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Assault 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
273.5(a) PC – Domestic Violence 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
12022.7(d) PC – Infliction of great bodily injury on a child under the age of five … 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Assault 07/16/1999 02/25/2000 Dismissed
240 PC – Attempt to inflict violent force on another person. 07/16/1999 02/25/2000 Dismissed
245(a)(1) PC – Assault with a deadly weapon other than a firearm 07/16/1998 01/18/2000 Pled Guilty
12022.7(d) PC – Infliction of great bodily injury on a child under the age of five… 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Criminal Terrorist Threat 07/16/1999 01/18/2000 Pled Guilty
664-187 PC – Attempted Murder 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
You will note some of the charges are from 1998, others 1999 on the anniversary date, McFadden successfully negotiated a plea agreement and only pled to criminal terroristic threats and assault with a deadly weapon other than a firearm. Both felonies.
In the complaint he lodged against the detectives in SDCSD, Patrick McStay specifically references failure to interview key suspects he provided to LE directly.
Given the location of the bodies, it would seem that whoever is responsible would at least want investigators to think McFadden was involved. As a self-proclaimed mountain bike “racer”, McFadden has participated in several bike events in various locations all along the Route 15 Mojave corridor. SBCSO says they will be re-interviewing everyone in the case and have no suspects.
There have been no named suspects to date and the investigation is ongoing. Memorial or Funeral arrangements for the McStay’s have not yet been announced . LATE EDIT: The family and friends of the McStay family will gather at the grave site in Victorville, on Joseph’s McStay’s birthday.
To be continued in Part 2: Analysis of the last day of their lives points to involvement by someone they knew.
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There was never any ransom in this case received by anyone. Mike McStay stated this in several interviews.
B
That was an example. I am thinking really out of the box. My issue? MM showed he felt Merrit a suspect strongly. Why then be in business with him in any way, shape or form?
Friends close enemies closer. It is my understanding that ultimately the business relationship broke down as Susan alleged Merritt stole money from her. I don’t know the source of those funds.
B
Blink says:
The reality is this. For reasons only known to him- he felt he could go so far out on the limb in this case that he could not get back and the limb broke. He blamed a loving Mother and wife for the fate of this family, to include murdering her own husband and diagnosing a woman he has never met with a psychological condition. Again, that’s a generous view.
Blink, do you know what the relationship was (if any) between Baker and Merritt? Could Baker have come to his conclusions about Summer based on information given to him by Chase? Chase has recently claimed Summer was poisoning Joey, and he has made some negative comments about her character. Chase might have shared these same concerns with Baker. Knowing Chase was Joey’s friend and close business associate, Baker might have thought Chase had inside information which led to his theory about Summer killing Joey.
Regardless of it’s origin- it was reckless and compassionless AND, most importantly, it was WRONG.
What info could he possibly have had, considering? Chase Merritt ate dinner at the McStay home the weekend before they disappeared- how concerned could he have been about being poisoned?
Come on. No offense Alli and I mean no disrespect, but Summer, Joey, G and Joey Jr, and both of their extended families did not deserve that for any excuse.
B
Heres what Im thinking about-The search for crossing Mexico on the computer… the vehicle placement and the burial spotS
Without the placement of the vehicle in the shopping center near the border- and without the computer search it seems unlikely that anyone would have thought this family walked over the border
The video would not have been uncovered…
So my question is
Did the perps know of the computer search which seemed to corroborate the placement of the car or was it a coincidence that the vehicle was left where it was
It seems like a very big risk to place the bodies so far away from where the car was found- and then drive the car to the border-
Smart to throw off trail but risk to be further seen and takes more time to move vehicle- risk noone would see the vehicle drop off and person exiting vehicle….
was their vehicle used to transport them to the burial spot or did another accomplice take the vehicle in the opposite direction the killer and family went…
Was the vehicle washed/wiped down that would add more time and more risk of discovery- especially if the Mcstays were abducted in it and taken to the desert…
The vehicle IIRC was said to hold no forensic evidence to make LE think someone harmed the family…
No blood or other so could it be they were never in their own vehicle that night?
The two separate graves still makes no sense how much room could the little boys need-
Why take the time to dig two graves one for parents one for children…
Were they taken and killed separately- was it a message that the boys were innocent and separate from the parents perceived slights-the killing of Mom and dad was needed but the boys were an after thought?
IDk but it seems there was one perp who was conflicted in some way- taking extra risks- or there was more than one killer accomplice
the actions seem planned but very disjointed I guess Im trying to say….
The whole thing is weird
AJMO
Peace
Mom 3.0- your point is well taken.
Fwiw, when I see components of organized v disorganized- I look to each component of the known aspects of the crime. At the very basic level- at the very least, assuming one cannot contain a family of 4 over multiple locations where phones end up at the same place over two different time periods ( and other assumptions on my part) I have to believe more than one individual was involved in this crime. * Not to say that offenders do not produce both organized and disorganized markers within the same crime. They often do.
I still maintain the possibility there were 3 graves. Only 2 were excavated. Both the sets of remains contained therein were largely recovered intact ( I am going to be intentionally vague because it would get into the discussion of the differences that can occur when recovering remains of children of those ages). A partial human skull and a some smaller artifacts, believed to be human bones of some kind, were located away from that.
A request for the autopsy protocols by my office has been denied- citing the ongoing criminal investigation. As you know, I believe a significant amount of forensic information, leading to a potential offender is being withheld.
To your point, as much as I would like to believe SDCSD had more legitimate evidence to influence their belief the McStay’s left on their own- I actually believe, given what we know, it was the absence of information to the contrary, and the absence of a crime scene that led them to this conclusion.
So yes, might all be serendipitous as to the event, and may ultimately yield that nobody ever intended (offenders) to stage a Mexican excursion, temporary or otherwise. I think that is giving to much credit, although I admit the weight it carries because of LE opinion and the handing over of the case to the FBI.
B
Lanni says
To Truth, From Lanni
I do not think I said that I felt Joey’s finances were not illegally pilfered. Seems to me I wrote of what I am aware of, which is what Pat McStay has posted that DK took near 25grand and Mike took 5g out of some account, he said for child support and the business. The fact is that I do not know. I am not the FBI and do not have access to what funds have been moved and by whom.
Lanni, I do understand that Patrick has made a lot of claims. It is my undertanding that Michael took far more than $5000.
In my opinion, when we are discussing Patrick’s integrity and Baker’s integrity we discussing apples and oranges. Neither man has much integrity that I can see. As a journalist, Baker has been caught in lie after lie that he has attempted to push on the public with a level of narcissism that amazes me. There isn’t even any shame when he’s caught. He bounces right back. Patrick has recently been incarcerated for activities involving character and integrity, yet he lashes out at Baker for being dishonest. It’s interesting to hear each of these men refer to the other as a liar.
Blink, I never said it wasn’t wrong, reckless or compassionless. In fact, I never gave my opinion, so I would appreciate if you wouldn’t put words in my mouth. My point was Baker could have received his information about Summer from Chase and developed his theory. Since you are an investigative journalist and have stated you have information that the public doesn’t have, I thought you might have some information related to a connection between Chase and Baker. I take it you don’t.
Alli- I did not put words in your mouth. I clearly stated MY OWN opinion. I understood your point, I was simply responding to the fact that it is inconsequential to the outcome, and damage done.
I would say that public information about this duo or private- does not lead to a theory about Summer being a murderer or a would-be murderer. That includes Baker and that includes Merritt’s pending bird cage liner. No offense to any Avian readers.
B
There has been much on the trail of the finances after Jpesph’s dissapearance. The pilfering is viewed as illegal. It seems that everyone is searching for a motive for the wrong actions of DK, Mike McStay and even Susan with regards to the accounts, in the context of what their gain would be financially.
The one thing I have never heard or read being referred to, is where McStay’s money came from in the first place. There is an assumption that all monies in the EIP account were from the people who bought fountains.
Could all of the intense action with the accounts directly after Joseph’s disappearance be not so much for gain but to get rid of monies that were being put through the EIP account, that had nothing to do with the fountain business.
Blink, I know I drove you crazy with my haranguing about off shore accounts in Belize and money laundering- and I am not going back there, exactly.
I am just thinking that if there was anything underhanded in the on line business, PERHAPS one could view the actions taken by DK and MM et al as a panic reaction hide things- and or a way to confuse things on purpose,making tracking down the money trail so convoluted that
it would be impossible to get quick, straight-line answers.
Bottom line:
Has thee been confirmation of the sources for the McStays’s money, in personal accounts, and in Biz accounts?
Perhaps having a crystal clear idea of exactly where all J.M and SM’ss money came from, instead of focusing soley on where it went, would reveal more clues.
What do you think Blink- rabbit hole?
btw, I too am disposed towards putting that painter under a magnifying glass, in every way.
Huge rabbit hole. You can’t unring a bell. If Joey was using Quicken it is backed up and synced to accounts in real time- or i am not understanding your question. There is zero suggestion ( and I have verified this) that there is any impropriety or irreconcilable monetary transaction on the books as EIP maintained by Joey Mc Stay at the time of the disappearance. I would offer this information has been available to LE since weeks after the investigation. It went to the FBI in April 2013- in my estimation there was no “smoking financial gun” so to speak- had there been- it would be the focus here.
B
does anyone know who Patrick Mcstay is referring to (on Nancy Grace) someone “deep in debt to someone” when talking about his theorys of possible suspects ?
according to theweathercollector.com no rainfall the last week in Jan 2010 no rain until 2-5,6,7 1.10 inch and 1.13 inch in Victorville. More specific data could pinpoint the day of bury, possibly. IMO it was late sun/early mon then perp drove trooper to San Ysidro.
Mike McStay posted on his FB page for Joey, Summer and boys will be shut down on Feb. 4. Interesting. BUT, he’s keeping the website Find the McStay’s up?? Is he also keeping the Donation link??
Seems to me, he only wants this to go away. This guy never seems to have the right movements. I understand grieving, but I feel something has always been way off about him. I tend to be most suspicious of DK and COMPLETELY agree with all of Blink’s statements and observations on him.
I was wondering if anyone has any info about Matthew Schneider who was arrested in the pot-ring in June of 2013? DK also attempted to sell the EIP domain to him as well. Is he currently in the clink? Wondering about the two brothers also arrested. It would be great to find out the name of the “painter.”
Repeat- in conjunction with the criminal investigation- the probate matter is opened.
DK did sell the domain to Matt Schneider, Joaquin Quintero and Patrick H Maloy. After an arbitration which resulted in the award of the domain to Maloy- Maloy gave the domain to Mike McStay.
I have addressed this at length in earlier posts cupcake ( love the name) if you care to read back.
B
Sorry Blink- I guess I didn’t make myself clear!! I’m aware of the sale and Maloy giving the site to MM. My real inquiry was about MS and his status currently. Oh, and if it’s possible to find out the identity of the mystery “painter.” Thanks!!
I have been asked by LE not to release the painter’s ID at the moment for investigative reasons.
B
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Matt-Schneider-Pacific-Beach-Pot-Ring-Kyle-Gillen-Chris-San-Diego–210495371.html
Bail posted. Just waiting on trial. FBI took over Apr 2013, this arrest went down May2013 and bodies discovered Nov 2013. I know it’s been covered. I come back to this after all of the unsavory suspects and wonder if these happenings are somehow related. The outcome of the pending court case could help to eliminate this avenue. I will try not to think out loud!!!!
Blink Says-DK did sell the domain to Matt Schneider, Joaquin Quintero and Patrick H Maloy. After an arbitration which resulted in the award of the domain to Maloy- Maloy gave the domain to Mike McStay.
This case makes my head spin here again. Right after McStay went MIA MM registered the domain to himself. At that time he was also the one on the website to email ect. Now all this time I have every once in a while put in that web address and it always (after it stopped pointing to a fountain selling site), took me to the McStay Family website.
It is now a redirect.
B
Blink says…
Joey has a tax lien as a result, so I would suggest nobody paid his bills. So.. btw, that comes off the top and gets paid from the estate.
B
Truth Says-
This will be just one more area where Jonah and Blanche will be financially harmed by Uncle Michael and his friends. This has to do with EIP so then Patrick would be the one harmed, not Jonah or Blanche, Right?
@Alli. When verbiage is in bolded black, it is understood to be Blink’s own responsive opinion.
This is a pretty complex case. And there are a lot of really invested concerned citizens.
So it is amazing SD PD piddled along as long as they did without accountability.
The only thing I was sure of, being introduced to case, was Painter1 needed to be id’d & vetted,
and relatives who promptly raided bank accts & household goods were kind of
rapacious black sheep of family. More excuseable in an employee than a close family member to me.
And someone of such character did not need to know this family would not be returning to act.
I do have to say I’m NOW very interested in Painter #1 and that LE not releasing his name makes me even more curious. Just one more unsavory suspect……Ugggh! Thx Blink….always appreciate your thoughts, but have to say they intrigue me even more!! Can you say if you feel DK is directly behind the planning OR only an opportunistic POS? Trust me, I know he’s opportunistic, pathological, manipulative…..but, did he sign off on eliminating this beautiful family?
I can only say it is clear to me that he knew this family was not coming back. The counter argument to that would be that if he was involved why would he have been alerting everyone he could, to include requesting a wellness check when he would likely assume that the accounts he was pilfering, and other deeds, would come into focus? Perhaps that is rhetorical- I can’t say.
I can say that in the months leading up to the disappearance and following, Dan Kavanaugh and Joey McStay were at odds, and cross-purposes. The cross purposes part was on Dan’s behalf- and I wonder if Joey figured that out recently. Strictly going on post disappearance/offense behavior, he is a definite POI. I do not believe this parasite is capable of this kind of violence personally, however. Is he a cold blooded killer? No, I don’t see that. Is he the kind of ahole that can get someone killed? Absolutely.
B
2/4/2010 Incoming 11:06am 949-274-**** DK 17 mins
2/4/2010 Incoming 11:18am 949-274-**** DK 15 mins (A)
(A) Answer Incoming Call
Joey is on the ph with “DK” and answers an incoming call from “DK” ..
The first “DK Call” is active and on hold for 5 mins while he is talking to the 2nd “DK Call” … Is this Spoof Calling? I don’t see the records of this cell ph number matching Joeys!! Could their troubles have started much earlier that day? IMO, all this seems to have been premeditated!
That is not DK’s number, no idea where you got that.
B
“I have been asked by LE not to release the painter’s ID at the moment for investigative reasons.”
B
I am really surprised that LE is discussing the painter with anyone. I am shocked that they have even acknowledged that there is a painter .
Why is that?
B
lanni says:
Truth Says-
This will be just one more area where Jonah and Blanche will be financially harmed by Uncle Michael and his friends. This has to do with EIP so then Patrick would be the one harmed, not Jonah or Blanche, Right?
Lanni – I didn’t make any comment about EIP and Patrick in connection with Jonah being financially harmed. I don’t know why that sentence is included in the statement I had made about Jonah and Blanche being financially harmed. I only made the first portion of that statement.
I believe lanni is asking you the question, not submitting that is your comment. I have seen this a few times in a few comments of different posters, I will post a request for format after this post in the thread.
B
I remain puzzled by the contents of the Trooper when it was found in San Ysidro. There are objects that just don’t seem to make sense.
http://www.mcstayfamily.org/contents-of-the-vehicle
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2011/02/06/1-year-later-calif-familys-disappearance-a-mystery/
There was a sink and refrigerator from the expensive Red Retro Kitchen Collection by Pottery Barn. The McStay boys already had the blue Pottery Barn kitchen collection. Why was a second kitchen set purchased?
There was a Talking Microscope which doesn’t appear to be age appropriate for the McStay boys.
There was a Care Bears video. There was a video of Franklin Goes to School, which is the story of a turtle and his adventures on the first day of school. I can’t imagine that Summer would have purchased this video because she had every intention of Home Schooling her children. There was a video on UFOs which also seems age inappropriate for the McStay boys.
I have never felt that these items were purchased for Joseph, Jr. and Gianni.
For me, I am more intrigued by the fact that they were covered by the bedsheets from the home, and that the items were again purchased at Ross.
B
“Why is that?”
B
Because the FBI, and hopefully, other law enforcement agencies don’t discuss persons of interest or evidence during an investigation, especially an investigation like this one.
1. The FBI is not the lead in this case. SBCSD is. With much respect to SBCSD, and I have every intention of giving them the benefit of the doubt in their “to date” efforts in this case, I wish the FBI was the lead. I remain convinced their involvement has led to the recovery of the McStay remains. Having been trained by 3 of their former section chiefs- there really is no other comparable investigative agency with the protocols and assets to manage a case like this. IF SBCSD is functioning with that in mind, this case is headed to resolution. I believe that is occurring.
2. Respectfully, this is an inexperienced vantage point on your part. I noticed you have not responded to several of my responses to you, and that’s fine- it is not a requirement of course, but I do pride myself on this site being a teaching blog to advocates or true crime enthusiasts alike. I mention this because I have received a few private posts asking about same.
It is true that LE has no interest or permission to waive privilege in an open criminal investigation and outside of the PIO, or the media liason for the Coroner’s Office- the public is not likely to hear from them unless they have a need for public assistance.
B
Lanni says
I believe lanni is asking you the question, not submitting that is your comment. I have seen this a few times in a few comments of different posters, I will post a request for format after this post in the thread.
B
This has to do with EIP so then Patrick would be the one harmed, not Jonah or Blanche, Right?
Perhaps Lanni will better explain how this is connected to EIP and how Patrick is involved with the lien that Blink had spoken about. I did not provide the information about the lien, Blink did. I commented that a lien would be one more example of financial harm for Jonah and Blanche.
My comment about the lien, as you know, was that Joey has a tax lien, it did not involve any other persons.
B
Is he the kind of ahole that can get someone killed? Absolutely.
B
******
Blink I think this will turn out to be a very wise statement. JMO
Thanks Blink for the information regarding the number of computers removed from the house. There certainly could have been a small network. One computer could have been used for working on the designs of the fountain business while another could have been used to do the accounting. Without a visual of the equipment, it is only a guess at what their functions were. It is very simple to set up a small network today.
For example: AutoCad has a program for design that will do a material take-off of the design and if linked to vendor sites can do pricing of materials for producing a bid package.
If the activities in QB were being backed up in real time to the cloud, the FBI could, with proper warrants, have access to that information. It could yield some clues of value.
whodoneit says
Could all of the intense action with the accounts directly after Joseph’s disappearance be not so much for gain but to get rid of monies that were being put through the EIP account, that had nothing to do with the fountain business.
That is what I meant or rather could Dk or someone have told Mike and Susan for some reason this had to be done, even if they lied and made up a story but made them think that any chance the family had depended on EIP or that if they did not do this and that Jonah could be in danger or themselves. And them being too afraid to annonce it in interviews or tell LE.
Sorry Truth,
This is my question
This has to do with EIP so then Patrick would be the one harmed, not Jonah or Blanche, Right?
Blink Says-DK did sell the domain to Matt Schneider, Joaquin Quintero and Patrick H Maloy. After an arbitration which resulted in the award of the domain to Maloy- Maloy gave the domain to Mike McStay.
This case makes my head spin here again. Right after McStay went MIA MM registered the domain to himself. At that time he was also the one on the website to email ect. Now all this time I have every once in a while put in that web address and it always (after it stopped pointing to a fountain selling site), took me to the McStay Family website.
It is now a redirect.
B
Right but it has been so how did Malow give it to him? He had it from long before? Maloy must never have been able to use it in the first place.
Thx again Blink! Totally agree he’s entirely capable of having them killed, but too cowardly to do it himself. If we are to believe his Hawaiian alibi (and I’m sure that’s been researched/confirmed by LE)…I actually find it even more suspicious—added to all the “concern” for JM, texting SM on Feb 6 and calling PM & emailing him. His “concern” is entirely self-serving any way you slice it. Why not enjoy your vacation there, DK??!!! Oh, did he buy a round trip ticket or one-way? and WHEN were alleged tickets purchased?? Hmmm…I think those questions could tell a lot. JMO
My mind keeps going back to the fact that they were buried together. I would expect the killer/s to put distance between the bodies, and dispose of them in different ways. I see FEAR behavior more than guilt on some of these people close to the family. Do you think it’s possible they were informed of what happened and where the bodies were, and buried them the best way they could?
Welcome Lyn- but I am not understanding your question. Are you suggesting the family buried them out of fear once informed what happened?
If so, no. Absolutely no.
B
Sorry for not responding sooner Blink- Family day watching the playoffs
Re Blink
Mom 3.0- your point is well taken.
Fwiw, when I see components of organized v disorganized- I look to each component of the known aspects of the crime. At the very basic level- at the very least, assuming one cannot contain a family of 4 over multiple locations where phones end up at the same place over two different time periods ( and other assumptions on my part) I have to believe more than one individual was involved in this crime. * Not to say that offenders do not produce both organized and disorganized markers within the same crime. They often do.
**
yes Blink I think this is what I was picking up on- thank you for sharing yr thoughts, and process as well much appreciated
You wrote;
I still maintain the possibility there were 3 graves. Only 2 were excavated.
**
Thank you for reminding me of this possibility I had forgotten the info of perhaps 3 graves.
You wrote:
Both the sets of remains contained therein were largely recovered intact ( I am going to be intentionally vague because it would get into the discussion of the differences that can occur when recovering remains of children of those ages). A partial human skull and a some smaller artifacts, believed to be human bones of some kind, were located away from that.
**
Understood-even though you are unable to elaborate.
Blink if I may do you think perhaps this was a favorite dumping site for the offender- or did the other P grave skull come after the family….or are you thinking all 3 graves family and other remains are all part of same event?
You wrote:
A request for the autopsy protocols by my office has been denied- citing the ongoing criminal investigation. As you know, I believe a significant amount of forensic information, leading to a potential offender is being withheld.
**
I sincerely appreciate yr thoroughness- and yes I understand the amount of info you and LE experts would/could glearn from the graves autopsies and other forensics. That gives me hope as to finding the perps or at least piecing together what happened and why. gruesome but I do look forward to any future analysis you can share.
You wrote;
To your point, as much as I would like to believe SDCSD had more legitimate evidence to influence their belief the McStay’s left on their own- I actually believe, given what we know, it was the absence of information to the contrary, and the absence of a crime scene that led them to this conclusion.
**
yes thank you that is part of my thoughts as well-
You wrote:
So yes, might all be serendipitous as to the event, and may ultimately yield that nobody ever intended (offenders) to stage a Mexican excursion, temporary or otherwise. I think that is giving to much credit, although I admit the weight it carries because of LE opinion and the handing over of the case to the FBI.
B
**
Agreed
Blink thanks so much for sharing your insights- and for continuing to try to understand what happened- for staying true to upholding the dignity of the victims while sharing your professional and educational experience. It cant be an easy thing to balance.
Ajmo
peace
RE
Truth says:
January 12, 2014 at 12:05 pm
I remain puzzled by the contents of the Trooper when it was found in San Ysidro. There are objects that just don’t seem to make sense.
http://www.mcstayfamily.org/contents-of-the-vehicle
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2011/02/06/1-year-later-calif-familys-disappearance-a-mystery/
There was a sink and refrigerator from the expensive Red Retro Kitchen Collection by Pottery Barn. The McStay boys already had the blue Pottery Barn kitchen collection. Why was a second kitchen set purchased?
There was a Talking Microscope which doesn’t appear to be age appropriate for the McStay boys.
There was a Care Bears video. There was a video of Franklin Goes to School, which is the story of a turtle and his adventures on the first day of school. I can’t imagine that Summer would have purchased this video because she had every intention of Home Schooling her children. There was a video on UFOs which also seems age inappropriate for the McStay boys.
I have never felt that these items were purchased for Joseph, Jr. and Gianni.
For me, I am more intrigued by the fact that they were covered by the bedsheets from the home, and that the items were again purchased at Ross.
B
Blink- I also share yr POV here-
the bedsheet was intriguing as according to the video of TES there were no sheets on any of the beds in the home- again the home scene was not pristine
TES came in after the police so they could have taken the sheets…
but the sheet in the car is perplexing to me also-
FWIW in those TES youtube vids IIRC it was said that Summer often shopped frpom Craigslist( maybe it wasinfo from you Blink) anyway it was said she often purchased duplicate items if she found a great deal-
The red kitchen set could have came from a craigslist find or a gararge sale find-
right now today I was able to find several posting for this kitchen set
here;
http://providence.craigslist.org/bab/4234675151.html
http://fortcollins.craigslist.org/bab/4256006611.html
i realize Blink said some were purchased at Ross- (by Summer?) but just adding that
if one is so inclined they can find many postings for new like new unopened DVDS for children on craigslist also-
http://charleston.craigslist.org/emd/4252079421.html
http://medford.craigslist.org/bab/4261982469.html
and for talking microscopes
http://madison.craigslist.org/bab/4266161255.html
you can find many things on the free section too and many are take all or nothing-
—
so if the franklin DVD was an included part of a bargain or if the kitchen set was a steal… i dont think that would have put Summer off to purchasing them ( based on having another or not real needing it homeschooling) as she could give them as gifts or have one as backup- or sell at another time or feel good just for getting them at a bargain.
Craigslist is a big scary thing for me in this case- i think Blink mentioned this as well alot in the beginning… as other posters.. you dont know who you are conversing with in these ads dont know who you are meeting nor who is coming to your home…scary
One more thought- the trooper having these items in the back covered by a sheet- means there was little to no room for other bundled big items….again seems to point to a different vehicle other than the trooper being used for transport of the family- how would one driver keep 4 people under control riding in a trooper such far distances from there home without risking other passers by seeing a distressed group of people in the vehicle?
Thanks for reading- sorry for the length
AJMO
Peace
blink writes:
There is zero suggestion ( and I have verified this) that there is any impropriety or irreconcilable monetary transaction on the books as EIP maintained by Joey Mc Stay at the time of the disappearance. I would offer this information has been available to LE since weeks after the investigation. It went to the FBI in April 2013- in my estimation there was no “smoking financial gun” so to speak- had there been- it would be the focus here.
—-
So,,just to be clear, you are saying that for every fountain ordered and paid for through EIP is physically accounted for, as well as corresponding incomes of people employed to construct them?
No, I am saying what I said, clearly. No impropriety as maintained by the owner of EIP, Joey McStay.
B
Is there any indication that Gianni is really Vick Johansens son and that. Vick was. Obsessed with Summer and Summer was continuing the attraction as she liked the attention? Do you suppose this was a plan to leave and thats why the car was at the border. Then murder became the unexpected part . When she changed her mind he then had to kill her and the children because she knew of the murder of joseph. Vick became enraged and then killed her and the boys. With no money and no returned love he could get pretty despondent..
None. Gianni is the biological son of Joey and Summer.
B
blink writes:
No, I am saying what I said, clearly. No impropriety as maintained by the owner of EIP, Joey McStay.
B
—
Bl;ink I am so sorry, I am not trying to drive you nuts , but this is what I am drawing from your stements:
EIP was a legitimate company, with all books in order, a company with projections of increased profits , and within less than a year , it was foundering to the degree that the domain name (and business) was sold to people who were then busted for selling marijuana.
If the only difference between the company working and not working was the absence of Jospeh McStay, Why was Joseph McStay irreplaceable. Many companies change CEOs and continue or even get better.
HOW did DK and Joseph meet? Was it as random as Jospeh needing someone with web design savvy- Did they know each other previously- I thought in the heated/thretening email exchange, they both referenced their long friendship- did the friendship exist before DK came on board as web admin?
Do you think DK had plans for the company that Jospeh wouldn’t go along with? If so, how can one prove that short of a confession?
Joey was the artist/builder. I can’t speculate on what happened when Susan and Michael took over except to say that it failed. I do believe we will find out.
B
Blink, do you know why the case was transferred to the FBI 3 years later in April 2013? New evidence?
Good Question Allison. I do.
I know that several have stated that the FBI took over the case at the request of SDCSD due to the fact of G and Joey’s ages. This is incorrect. The truth is, the FBI- if asked and the case meets certain criteria- will likely take over any case that is believed to have occurred across state lines, or has a multi-jurisdictional and potentially international component.
They can also assist in these areas without being lead, however. There was never any evidence of a crime according to SDCSD so that was not the conduit.
Few things:
Patrick McStay filed an 11 count complaint with Internal Affairs ( PRB) essentially skewering Brugos and Dugal. He had every right to, and frankly, I would have done the same in his shoes.
SDCSD had nowhere to go with this case- as they did and apparently CONTINUE to believe that the McStay’s, as a family, went to Mexico voluntarily. That said, I believe they gave it to the FBI because of the activity under associates of witnesses in this case. IE: dope rings, and I am not sure that folks are aware of this- but internet fraud/wire fraud ( non USPS) will usually be handled by the FBI. So.. the official story is that they believed they went to Mexico on their own ( which is ridiculous because that not being a crime would mean there is no need for the FBI.. hello?)
but as you can tell from my snark- I do not believe that is the case.
B
@Blink. wrt “Joey was the artist/builder. I can’t speculate on what happened when Susan and Michael took over except to say that it failed. I do believe we will find out.
B”
I could see where this duo woukd attempt to keep a concern going, despite a lack of any skills or knowledge to
do so. Which brought to mind the assailant, by now I posit a pro as planner, might be motivated to terminate this business as a going concern. Which suggests a business rival for the middle eastern contract (if there was one).
Normally, I would agree with that, but we are talking $80K gross billable- and I do not think the profit margins were up to EPIDA on that project per se. That said, there was tremendous opportunity in the funnel, as I understand it.
B
@Who It seems to me the marijuana
bustees & the seller must have been the
ones with preexisting ties that bind,
meaning Mike not DK.
@Truth. Who knows what another woman wants. Summer was busy, so any old quasi educastional video to entertain works if on sale. UFOs? She was a free spirit. Kitchem stuff @ Polttery Barn? Think deep sales & Craigslist. I shop at a hospital ladies run thrift store in a very high end VA town. One can become a consigner for a $75 yearly fee. By now I’ve figured tony housewives become consignors & go to the high end factory outlet 20 mi away, buy, clip tags, & consign as new back at just below retail & make money. It is possible Summer bought things on sale & resold on line. I wouldn’t read anything into her purchases.
That’s like one’s personal Marshalls.
B
Whodunnit
Just something for you to think about regarding the success or lack thereof regarding EIP. Even though they were brothers, they will have similar traits in one area and dissimilar traits in another. What one could do the other perhaps could not.
Your point is well taken that beginning companies sometimes change CEO’s and do better. This only happens if the company reaches a certain level and gets stuck because the founder is unable through lack of experience to move the company forward.
I don’t see this company anywhere near that level. It was still basically Joey’s company where he found the clients and used his artistic skills to design attractive fountains. He probably did most of the building himself where possible and hired outside help such as a welder to produce structural support when needed.
Small companies are all faced with some of the same problems when only one or two persons try to operate them. If one gets a contract that requires the full time efforts of the principles to complete, there is no one out there making contacts for future business. The web site was a good move for advertising. In a specialty business such as this, the knowledge and artistic thinking may be the reason for most of the success. With that removed, the company would probably fail unless someone else was hired with similar skills.
The book “Fire in the Valley” published in 1984 is the story of how the various companies developed in the personal computer business. It includes the story of Apple and the beginnings of Microsoft. There one sees how some made it and others did not.
Mom3.0
I have to agree with your position on Craig’s list. While it is successful, it has been the source of some crimes that make one need to be cautious. I have a friend that uses it all the time, but I think it exposes a person to people that often do not have good behavior.
I also think that we have spent a lot of time looking at who took money from the company, very little time or factual information is/has been spent in tracking the sources of money into the company.
As you know, I am not a fan of craigs list whatsoever. I think it is unbelievably dangerous to ever have a stranger to your home, or go to theirs- but I will tell you I have a contractor friend that uses it all the time and only sells items to locals. I call it Death’s List, lol.
I can also tell you that as a criminal investigative analyst- when we are analyzing victomology profiles in a case and there is recent craigs list transactions of any kind- that persons risk rises to moderate immediately, period, fwiw.
B
For me, I am more intrigued by the fact that they were covered by the bedsheets from the home, and that the items were again purchased at Ross.
B
Hi Blink
Thank you so much for all of the work and effort you put into this. It is appreciated more than you can imagine.
Regarding your comment above. I have never seen this previously. Did this come to you as insider information? I miss things quite often and this seems very important.
There were no sheets on any of the beds ( which were all temporary bedding, however- they covered the kitchen set in the back of the Trooper.
B
I just find it very odd that Summer would continue some kind of exchange with Vick. I find it odd that Joseph would allow a previous boyfriend to converse with his wife without great objection for cease and desist. I find it odd that Vick followed them to San Clemente. All that is just too strange. Most ex boyfriends tend to stay away or become family friends not friends that cotinue to profess secret love. A lot will depend on how the remains were found. Which graves contained which bodies. One person could do this if it was planned a certain way. An obsessed old lover does not care about a husband, and certainly does not care about the welfare of that mans children. An obsssed lover cares only about the minutes of time, the sharing of his emotion, to bring whatever morsels of returned love the can fabricate. If the perp essentially had no motive for living except the.possibility of having Summer back, its a good enough motive for me. I am quite respectable but have had 2 such obsessed people in my life. Both kind of scary in the end and both took years of non contact to get rid of. When someone has nothing to live for except the contact with their emotional hitch, they can get very sneaky and manipulative alone with their thoughts. The graves had to have been dug already since digging graves with bodies beside you is just too risky and stupid. Digging graves if seen by cyclists can be explained as practice to any passerby. He could then abandon his plan and devise another plan. Nobody saw him dig the graves so he went forward. In this case, if Joseph was in one grave, Summer and the kids in another or Joseph and the little ones in one grave and Summer in another. I cant see an obsessed perp putting Summer and Joseph together unless there was some component of rage to sayshe could have her husband but not her children. It seems very premeditated to me.
Angie- Summer and Joey were in one grave, either just one or both of their remains appear to be bound by an electrical cord and the boys are in the other. It was premeditated, but I fail to see how anyone’s obsession with her to include a fantasy of them together ends up like this in any way.
While I think Johannsen has definite issues returning to a non-military environment, I do not see him remotely capable of pulling something like this off and I respectfully disagree there is any way this only involved one person.
B
In regard to the items found in the Trooper and the fact that they were covered with a sheet I find the following possibilities:
The items were purchased for resale by Summer or Joey. The sheet was used to conceal what they were in order to keep thieves from breaking into the vehicle.
There are people who cruise parking lots and up and down residential and business streets looking for items to take from a vehicle. If I purchase anything small and valuable, it is either locked in my toolbox or placed in the extended cab of my truck where there is tinted glass to prevent it being seen. Sometimes with a large item it must be placed in the open bed. I try to purchase those items when that is the last stop necessary. My reason is to not provide any temptation to a cruising thief.
Playing “what if” in this case-suppose the killers used the known items as a means to lure Summer and the boys out of the house by telling her that there was a sale for them if they could be delivered right away. This being true, someone close to the family or familiar with what went on, would be the prime suspect for the crime.
Alli says:
January 11, 2014 at 6:16 pm
Blink, I never said it wasn’t wrong, reckless or compassionless. In fact, I never gave my opinion, so I would appreciate if you wouldn’t put words in my mouth. My point was Baker could have received his information about Summer from Chase and developed his theory. Since you are an investigative journalist and have stated you have information that the public doesn’t have, I thought you might have some information related to a connection between Chase and Baker. I take it you don’t.
Alli, Baker seemed to think IMO based on comments he made that Chase was just a great guy. He said Patrick also felt Chase was a stand up dude (my own words). Yes I think it is very possible that that information was feed to Baker along with much else.
My comment about the lien, as you know, was that Joey has a tax lien, it did not involve any other persons.
B
Can you tell me what the tax lien is on? What the tax bill is from? Also, when they settle the estate why did you mention Patrick as trustee for Jonah?
Is not Johan automatic to inherit from Joey (putting aside EIP) ? Patrick on his Facebook had said that Heather would have to file? On Jonah’s behalf. ?
lanni- one can access that information from San Diego County. Respectfully, you cannot expect me to comment on what someone else is saying on their Facebook. These are complicated probate matters that will be handled by the probate court with probate counsel. Probate law in California can be reviewed here, as well as several other resources:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/calawquery?codesection=prob
I can tell you that the autopsy findings could be paramount to who are the beneficiaries. It is not a foregone conclusion that Jonah and Blanche are the primaries- if there was a will, that will come into play. If there are forensic reasons that indicate this was not a “simultaneous” event- it could also come into play. Right now, none of that is being released.
B
ATG writes
I also think that we have spent a lot of time looking at who took money from the company, very little time or factual information is/has been spent in tracking the sources of money into the company.
—–
I fear I have beleaguered Blink with the same thoughts. But as I have understood her posts, she assures me that the company was all on the up and up, and if it weren’t, more would being made about it. Having said that, I continue to look at EIP, which was an on line business that used paypal , (as well as checks in some cases). Here is a link to how money can be laundered through paypal accounts.http://arxiv.org/pdf/1310.2368.pdf.
In all honestly, I want to respect Blink’s p.o.v. that this is a rabbit hole, so feel free to disregard.
And thanks for the recommend of about ” Fire In the Valley”. I tracked it down, found it through Amazon, and look forward to reading it!
Blink Says-
There were no sheets on any of the beds ( which were all temporary bedding, however- they covered the kitchen set in the back of the Trooper.
B
Sort of the same question as in do we know that the sheets were not removed (Tim Miller found those clear bags with bedding and said he wondered who stripped the beds and why? People tend to have lots of sheets so do you have confirmation it was indeed from the bed(s). I counted three beds where there three in the Trooper? Some left on the beds? Or is it that they have no idea because in the timeframe LE left and came back w a warrant things were changed (not with intent)
Ok so none on the beds, what about in the bags that contained the comforters and linens, were comforters on the beds? Or in the bags.
Blink Says-
I can tell you that the autopsy findings could be paramount to who are the beneficiaries. It is not a foregone conclusion that Jonah and Blanche are the primaries- if there was a will, that will come into play. If there are forensic reasons that indicate this was not a “simultaneous” event- it could also come into play. Right now, none of that is being released.
I would say YIKES but I do not think they are going to be able to establish who died first. My hope is that if it turns out the only people set to inherit are Blanche, Patrick, and Jonah they can be dignified.
There was enough room for two adults and two car seats, but it would be incredibly tight for another adult to sit in the rear seat between the two oversized car seats. Also, between the two rear child seats, on the hump between the floor board, was Joey Sr. tupperware with asthma medication. The detectives told me this was important because it shows that there wasn’t an additional person in the car or the tupperware bowl would have been knocked over
http://www.mcstayfamily.org/contents-of-the-vehicle
Does this seem ridiculous to anyone else? The part about the tupperware and Asthma medicine? How no other person could have sat there or it would have been knocked over?
Your welcome Whodunnit
I don’t know if you were involved in computers prior to the development of the microprocessors in the late 1970′s and early 1980′s. If not, the read will give you a bit of history and explain how some were successful and others were not. IMO a great read.
The early days of PayPal were a bit rocky too. It was a good idea,but was not well designed at the beginning. It is always difficult to build good systems for commerce and provide proper security. Just look at what has happened to Target Stores recently.
I am hopeful that SBCSD with help from the FBI will soon get some worthwhile leads that will lead to solving this crime. There seems to be a lot of twists and turns to the lives of those taken and some of them were around people of questionable character. This crime may be way larger than any of us might have thought.
I meant to add to scroll down a little, he talks about a follow up conversation with the neighbor. The neighbor says he remembers the next morning hearing the dogs whining inside the house.