McStay Family Murdered: Will Desert Graves Yield Their Killers?
Deserted in the Desert
Gianni Family Photo
Gianni Martelli McStay had rock star hair at only 4years old. His little brother Joseph, affectionately nicknamed Chubba- did as well. They both rocked a beanie like no other little dudes.
Chubba Family Photo
Gianni and Chubba were as inseparable in life as they were in death when they were recovered in a shallow grave in the Mojave Desert on November 11.
Their parents, Joseph, 40 and Summer McStay, 43, were located in a separate grave nearby.
A 3rd gravesite was found-but empty. A protected source not authorized to speak to the media has confirmed that at least one of the parent’s remains was bound by an electrical cord.
While formal DNA comparisons and autopsy protocols are pending, the manner of death in all four victims have been declared homicides.
Just about 50 yards off the intersection of Route 15 and Quarry Rd the family that San Diego County Sheriff’s Department (SDCSD) believed was “likely” voluntarily missing on their own and living in Mexico, was recovered in a 30 hour excavation process. An off road motorcycle enthusiast called the San Bernardino County Sheriff when he came across what he suspected was human remains.
Last April SDCSD forwarded the McStay case to the FBI based on their conclusions that the McStay’s had McGone to Mexico, following a lengthy complaint of their handling of the case by Patrick McStay, Joseph’s Father. Troy Dugal, previous lead investigator of the McStay case, appeared on several news and cable television programs over the last three years explaining there was “overwhelming” circumstantial evidence the family of four that was pictured crossing the border into Tijuana, Mexico the evening of February 8th, 2010 was in fact, the McStays.
Following the recovery, San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Office will maintain jurisdiction of the investigation.
Frenemies.. Frenethieves.. Friends.. Family or Cartel?
Who brutally murders innocent children and dumps them in a hole they dug in the desert?
Logically- someone who is very familiar with the area. Of course it is just as shocking and horrific to murder anyone, but it takes a specific brand of evil to murder a baby. Make that two.
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that either Joseph or Summer McStay had any ties to drugs, associates with ties to drugs or cartel, at any time. None.
Contrary to a top selling book on the case, “No Goodbyes” by Rick Baker, there has never been any evidence whatsoever that Summer McStay was some sort of closeted psychotic and homicidal type. The book goes on to malign members of both Joseph and Summer’s families and in some cases outright accuses same of extortion or stealing. Baker’s subsequent public theory is that Summer murdered Joseph and everyone should be looking for her and the boys in Mexico.
Not surprisingly , Baker has requested Amazon pull his book from available stock and has offered refunds to prior purchases. Popular online sleuth sites previously promoting “No Goodbye’s” have since either deleted it’s hundreds of posts endorsing Baker, or moved them to a member’s only private viewing area.
Albeit obtusely, Baker does touch on a troubling and serious abuse allegation concerning Joseph McStay’s oldest son from his first marriage, Jonah, and his step-father, Michael McFadden. He writes summer filed a complaint with Child Protective Services after she and Joseph recorded a conversation with Jonah and placed a copy of same with a private party for safekeeping. Blinkoncrime.com has been able to independently verify that is accurate, but that the investigation was not known to be completed until shortly after the McStay’s disappearance. Under California probate law, Jonah would be an heir to the McStay estate or as otherwise provisioned in the instance of an existing will.
Interviewed by Laura Ling for E! Investigation, Joseph McStay’s web administrator Dan Kavanaugh claims he was the first to become concerned. In Baker’s book, he refers to him as a suspect and details how he alleges he was funneling cash from McStay’s business account before he or anyone else knew the family was missing. Kavanaugh has an unrelated open criminal matter in San Diego County according to court records.
Chase Merritt- Joseph McStay’s business partner in his water fountain design and installation business was the last number ever dialed from his phone at 8:28PM on February 4th. Merritt joined McStay in a lunch meeting earlier that afternoon where they discussed a proposal for a very large car wash chain to feature custom fountains in each facility. According to family friend MacCargar McGyver, McStay was very excited about the opportunity. Merritt claims he passed a voluntary lie detector test, and that he was adamant that Joseph McStay would never have taken his family to Mexico and has always believed they met with foul play.
McGYver spent several days leading up to February 4th at the McStay home due to a painter Summer hired not returning to complete the job. McGyver introduced Summer and Joseph and by all accounts was a close confidant of the couple.
Patrick McStay, Joseph’s Father living in Texas has had some harsh words for the investigation into the disappearance of his son, daughter in law and grandsons.
“…most botched, inept investigation I’ve ever seen in my entire life.”
He also believes very strongly that the list of suspects with motive to kill his family members is very short. Three, to be exact.
He said the department didn’t even bother to contact him to tell him his son’s remains had been found.
“I got a message from someone [on Thursday] on Facebook telling me to go and read an article,” McStay said. “The minute I read the article, I knew it was him.”
“I have exhausted and have so much information on three possible persons of interest. All have a motive.”
The three individuals are not connected to each other, but all of them seem like likely candidates. Patrick says one of them seems to be a particularly likely suspect: he’s a wealthy man with a long rap sheet that includes charges of attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon and burglary. McStay says he, too, has a motive for killing his son.
Although Mr. McStay did not reference him by name, he may be referring to Michael James McFadden, who was arrested in July 1998 and charged with attempted murder and a litany of other felonies including great bodily harm to a child:
459/460(a) PC – Burglary 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Assault 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
273.5(a) PC – Domestic Violence 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
12022.7(d) PC – Infliction of great bodily injury on a child under the age of five … 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Assault 07/16/1999 02/25/2000 Dismissed
240 PC – Attempt to inflict violent force on another person. 07/16/1999 02/25/2000 Dismissed
245(a)(1) PC – Assault with a deadly weapon other than a firearm 07/16/1998 01/18/2000 Pled Guilty
12022.7(d) PC – Infliction of great bodily injury on a child under the age of five… 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Criminal Terrorist Threat 07/16/1999 01/18/2000 Pled Guilty
664-187 PC – Attempted Murder 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
You will note some of the charges are from 1998, others 1999 on the anniversary date, McFadden successfully negotiated a plea agreement and only pled to criminal terroristic threats and assault with a deadly weapon other than a firearm. Both felonies.
In the complaint he lodged against the detectives in SDCSD, Patrick McStay specifically references failure to interview key suspects he provided to LE directly.
Given the location of the bodies, it would seem that whoever is responsible would at least want investigators to think McFadden was involved. As a self-proclaimed mountain bike “racer”, McFadden has participated in several bike events in various locations all along the Route 15 Mojave corridor. SBCSO says they will be re-interviewing everyone in the case and have no suspects.
There have been no named suspects to date and the investigation is ongoing. Memorial or Funeral arrangements for the McStay’s have not yet been announced . LATE EDIT: The family and friends of the McStay family will gather at the grave site in Victorville, on Joseph’s McStay’s birthday.
To be continued in Part 2: Analysis of the last day of their lives points to involvement by someone they knew.
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Joey was the artist/builder. I can’t speculate on what happened when Susan and Michael took over except to say that it failed. I do believe we will find out.
B
Blink this confuses me because I read mostly it was simply drop shipping with Chase welding when folks wanted some custom features. Then I wondered if DK (since he seems to have buyers he owes in the mJ field,) or someone could have had someone at a drop shipping company who then added illegal items for shipping with the fountains. Or even if Chase could have known with some custom orders and this could all be done (financial end) outside of EIP, it being used as you will.
Blink-
Here is the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m77MM1O5To
at 1:10 is where they are looking at the beds and he pulls out the bag with bedding and asks who stripped the beds and why
Blink- So does the probate have to wait till after this is solved?
I mean in case they get a confession and find out who died first? Or can the family just waive that if all agree.
Not a probate attorney, Lanni- but nobody has to wait for anything to begin this process once the certificates of death are issued- which they were.
B
http://newyorkcustomlegalforms.blogspot.com/2010/05/mistery-of-missing-mcstay-family.html
Blink Says Regardless of it’s origin- it was reckless and compassionless AND, most importantly, it was WRONG.
What info could he possibly have had, considering? Chase Merritt ate dinner at the McStay home the weekend before they disappeared- how concerned could he have been about being poisoned?
Agree-but what about deflecting she was MIA at the time
Lanni and all posters- I am overdue in asking for this as we have many new posters on the McStay thread.
I am not very picky provided we stick to some basics please:
If quoting me, or another poster, please indicate same, and if you are snipping part of a post (each post has it’s own permalink) please include the link so readers can also choose to review context.
I realized many of us are using our droids/tablets/ipads/iphones and that formatting can be challenging so I would simply ask that in some way once you have done above ( if applicable) use some sort of divider to indicate where your reply or question comes in. ie:
Blink said…” blah blah blah inserts wit or snark, sometimes a pearl sometimes a clam…”
(snipped from- insert link)
************************************************
@blink When you said blah did you really mean Yar or just pronounce blah like a pirate?
All other respect and courtesy rules apply, scroll and roll if you feel like you want to attack a poster and not the content of the post. Practice non-violent communication or sun salutations if necessary.
Thanks lanni for letting me use your post to address this- now, to respond to your query. Keep in mind I am using this formatting because I did not respond to your question directly underneath, which is my usual moderating style.
You said- Agree-but what about deflecting she was MIA at the time
I have no earthly idea what that question means. Please clarify.
B
http://domains.adrforum.com/domains/decisions/1434296.htm
So it says Water Feature Supply is the disputed domain and that no rights exist to Earth Inspired Products domain as it is owned by Mike McStay
If electrical cord was found on the victim/s bodies, would forensic testing be able to show if it came off the same “Roll” used on prior jobs?
I would say that it is possible there are several testing and trace options to identify the cording potentially, but I will hazard a guess it came from the scene of abduction or belonged to the McStays.
B
What is an electrical cord? We do not have enough information to come anywhere close to knowing what was used. Do police use that term as a generic when they don’t actually know its intended purpose? Probably.
It could be: The normal two wire cord found on a household extension; or it could be a portion of a three wire cord used for construction;or it could be single strand of wire used to power the small pumps used to circulate the water or several other possibilities.
Most electrical cordage/wire has markings on the insulation at specific intervals to identify what size it is and the manufacturing source except when it is part of a large roll that is being used to make power cords to an appliance. Appliance cords sometimes have the markings, but not always.
Agreed. Based on public info it could be anything used to conduct electricity within it.
B
lanni says:
January 14, 2014 at 5:56 am
http://domains.adrforum.com/domains/decisions/1434296.htm
So it says Water Feature Supply is the disputed domain and that no rights exist to Earth Inspired Products domain as it is owned by Mike McStay
——-
I accessed this site earlier when looking for something to substantiate Mike McStay’s declared ownership of EIP.
I am certainly NOT a lawyer- and I would ask anyone with a legal background to decipher this link!
but my impression of the info in the link is that the complainants request were denied, and that Patrick Maloy has the rights to use the words Water Features Supply and Earth Inspired Products.
It was my interpretation that Maloy tried put forth that McStay was the owner, but complainants response was that McStays interest was irrelevant,
It looks like the jist of the complaint is that Maloy was redirecting earth inspired products to water features supply and not delivering the goods.
This link also refers to the confusion about domain names nd wordage.
In shprt WHAT A MESS!!!
BUt bottom line- this seems to indicate that Mike MCStay had a relationship with Maloy that existed before this arbitration.
My question:
I was given to believe that David Kavanugh was the one who sold the domain name to Scneider and Quintero. Yet it appears that Maloy is saying that Earth Inspired products is owned by Mike McStay.
I could have this all wrong, and again, am just asking if any of our posters with legal expertise could interpret this document , distill it down!
Who- heart u, but it is Daniel Kavanaugh, not David- I meant to correct you earlier but thought maybe it was an auto correct issue. Yes, Maloy does indicate EIP is owned by Mike McStay.
Mike McStay, at no time, held any shareholder or stake position within EIP, period. I can’t say how or why he apparently believed he did, or what would lead him to convey to others that he had, but I can say without reservation that legally, he never did.
B
Lanni writes:
Agree-but what about deflecting she was MIA at the time
——-
Lanni, I believe what you are trying to say is that we do not know if Summer was even present when merit had dinner at the McStay house.
Joseph’s mom has said through the media that Joseph was having dizzy spells. There are many explanations for this, as discussed on this site ( menieres, inner ear infection, etc etc)
What is most interesting to me is that Merrit , knowing full well that he is POI, has evidently only recently brought up this idea that Summer was poisoning Joseph, and apparently AFTER getting the disseminated info about Jospeh’s dizzy spells.
My guess is that Merrit could come up with a reason why he ate dinner there in spite of his belief that Summer was poisoning Jospeh- all he has to say is that she wasn’t there or that she served individual portions, or that he brought the food , whatever.
If there was any hair left on Jospeh’s remains, as I understand it, there are tests that can be done to establish if he was a victim of poisoning.
. LE and the FBI never considered poisoning as an element- and they evidently talked to Merrit in depth at the time of the dissapearance- even went as far as a lie detector test.
Because we have viewed this case as having an element of ” being staged to
look like a voluntary missing/elected trip to Mexico, it is interesting to see how POI’s explain their points of view.
BY the way, although Merrit has referred to his lie detector tests, and Patrick McStay is the only source I can find saying he passed http://www.cbs8.com/story/24245580/mcstay-murder-mystery-who-is-chase-merritt.. But as we all know, you can’t be caught lying about questions that were never asked.
I do not think that Chase Merrit murdered the McStay family. But does he know something he isn’t saying? That I am not so sure of. I think everyone involved may be withholding some elements of the big picture, inadvertently or on purpose.
The alternative is that this is a senseless crime that many people took advantage of. But wow, it looks much more complicated that that.
Blink, do you think LE has totally ruled out IK? Just know that from what I have read about him, he generally had what he called ‘kill kits’ buried in various places around the country and electrical cord may have been something he would have in these kits. Just thinking…
Yes.
As you likely read, I have a different case where he has not been, and I do agree that he was more prolific than LE thinks. That said, he is no child killer, nor does his profile lend itself to think he could escalate or display the same MO towards kids. In fact, it is my belief he took his life be because his own child was about to be questioned ( not public).
B
Makes sense to me Joey went first & the other 3 later.
Imo an autopsy could well show that.
ie similar method & means for later 3.
Then if no wills, her heirs take all.
blink writes:
Who- heart u, but it is Daniel Kavanaugh, not David- I meant to correct you earlier but thought maybe it was an auto correct issue.
———–
heart you back, thank you for excusing my carelessness! I usually refer to him as DK and somehow my brain wasn’t connecting the dots. As you may have noticed, I often, in my zeal, click to post before I have edited myself- will try to shape up!!
Zeal is a great thing Who.
B
Whodunnit
This is a dispute that only refers to the domain names claimed by the two people in the complaint. The registered owners of the original domain names were GoDaddy and the other web service.
In most states a company must register with the county and with the Secretary of States office ,if incorporated, to claim a name. This requires payment of a fee and legal paperwork. If a business name is sold, there must be legal paperwork to support that sale and if it is gifted or a percentage of it is sold or gifted, paperwork must be signed and filed with the proper authorities.
Many of the .net service providers have registered a great many domain names with the Internet Naming Service which is a part of the International Telephone and Network organization. As long as the yearly fee for a name is paid, the individual or company owns a particular name. The original owner may sell the name or lease the name to an individual or a company for a fee. There is paperwork required in the form of a contract/lease or a purchase agreement.
In your link, the complaint made was denied due to the litigation in in the courts over the ownership of the business names and their claims of the common law usage was not established. This could change at a later time, but IMO is not likely because the complaint failed to show proper documentation to support the position.
This is simply my take on the material in the link.
Blink, what is the policy for posting Facebook comments/links here in relation to the case? To answer whodunnit’s question about ownership of EIP, Patrick McStay has commented about it on his Facebook page. Patrick said three partners bought EIP from DK, then sued each other (2 against 1.) He goes on to say the one awarded the domain then contacted Mike McStay and offered to give him the domain.
Same policy. You may post, link, and snip. He is correct as per the arbitration links previously posted.
B
Blink Says Blink Says Regardless of it’s origin- it was reckless and compassionless AND, most importantly, it was WRONG.
What info could he possibly have had, considering? Chase Merritt ate dinner at the McStay home the weekend before they disappeared- how concerned could he have been about being poisoned?
Agree-but what about deflecting she was MIA at the time
Blink also says-I have no idea what you mean.
……………………………………………………………..
Ali had asked about Baker getting his info from Chase-You said poor taste ect. I meant what if Chase feed this info to Baker because it puts blame on Summer, as he continues to sort of detract from what I feel should be the issue.
Link to Post http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/11/20/mcstay-family-murdered-will-desert-graves-yield-their-killers/comment-page-18/#comment-2215275
whodunnit says
My question:
I was given to believe that David Kavanugh was the one who sold the domain name to Scneider and Quintero. Yet it appears that Maloy is saying that Earth Inspired products is owned by Mike McStay.
I could have this all wrong, and again, am just asking if any of our posters with legal expertise could interpret this document , distill it down!from post http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/11/20/mcstay-family-murdered-will-desert-graves-yield-their-killers/comment-page-18/#comment-2215293
…………………………………………………………
This was about Domain Names and apparently it got to be a mess but I believe it also had to do with the website, in any case Mike McStay registered EIP that Domain Name around the time he was with his mother running it, so it was registered to Mike McStay. How that plays into all this I do not know.
Blink, do you have any knowledge of what day of the week Joey would of had his oldest son (custody rights)? If this was premeditated, do you feel the entire family were the target? I was curious if there was any meaning behind the killer/s picking day THURSDAY of that week. Thank you!
Wednesday.
B
Blink said:
Same policy. You may post, link, and snip. He is correct as per the arbitration links previously posted.
B
________
Thank you, Blink, for the Facebook policy and for confirmation of Patrick’s comments regarding the ownership of EIP.
A Texas Grandfather
Jan 14, 7:39 p.m writes:
This is simply my take on the material in the link.
——-
I read your post explaining the wording and meaning of the link http://domains.adrforum.com/domains/decisions/1434296.htm
and I think you have interpreted it and explained really well. in a way any layman could understand. Thanks!!
—
Anyone who wants to re read that link, be sure to check out ATG post of Jan 14 7:39 p.m. for interpretation.
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1441601esponse
in response to Rose: no wills, order of death, hiers
link did not work
B
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1441601
in response to Rose: no wills, order of death, hiers
corrected
Thank you Mo. So did Calif ever amend its code to apply the 120 hour survival requirement to formally attested wills?
Also the question comes, did the McStays have formally attested wills? Because I imagine clear & convincing evidence could come from autopsy.
Personally, I think the 120 hour rule is arbitrary & silly, but I expect the Legislature’s
intent was the families of perpetrators of domestic murder-suicides don’t take all,
or some scenario like that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJA59ikY7dk
CNN says there was a weapon involved that was in the grave. Wonder what it was.
Technically that is not what she said. She said there was a weapon involved, yes, but she did not indicate that is the other thing that was buried with them. I believe she was referring to the electrical cord.
B
IMO Patrick said that “that is what Mike told him” in re to the EIP domain name. Mike bought it that is all I know. Early on he bought it and has had it since.
Link please lanni. I am not clear on what you are saying, but if you are stating Mike McStay told Patrick that he bought the EIP site, Patrick never said that, and it is my understanding Maloy gave the registration to Mike McStay, was under the assumption at the time that Mike was the owner ( based on the arbitration transcript). We need to make sure the facts are correct
B
He just registered the name under his own, Mike did.
Blink writes:
Link please lanni. I am not clear on what you are saying, but if you are stating Mike McStay told Patrick that he bought the EIP site, Patrick never said that, and it is my understanding Maloy gave the registration to Mike McStay, was under the assumption at the time that Mike was the owner ( based on the arbitration transcript). We need to make sure the facts are correct
B
Lanni writes:
He just registered the name under his own, Mike did.
——
In the arbitration that we have the link to, one of the issues was that necessary paperwork was missing, that would have represented the sale of Patrick Maloy’s domain rights. Ergo rights remained with him in part.
I have never seen any legal documentation that Mike McStay bought anything or was given anything, and a legal, documented transference would be necessary, correct?
My question is why did Maloy think it was owned by McStay?
And why would he just ” give it back to him”
It doesn’t make any sense that, as per the domain arbitration link, IF Schneider Quintero and Maloy purchased right sot EIP, and then Schneider and Quintero severed ties with Maloy ( as they claimed), that Maloy would have THEN “given” it to Mike McStay- sorry- someone is going to have to explain this mess to me t.
In this link, yes, Maloy claims that Mike McStay is the owner, but that is countered by the statement that Mike McStay’s involvement is irrelevant. AND how could McStay be the owner if Schneider, Quintero bought it from David Kavanaugh, who claims he did that with Mike’s consent and involvement?
so once again, beating my own dead horse here is link:
http://domains.adrforum.com/domains/decisions/1434296.htm
My question is why did Maloy state it was owned by McStay?
And why would he just ” give it back to him”
Doesn’t seem to be legal docs for any of that.
I think I better drop out of this EIP trail , I just can’t keep up- no head for business!!!
Where was McFadden incarcerated? Thank you
It is very possible that the electrical cord could have been use for restraint and also used to choke the victim. No information is available to make it the instrument of death or not.
Agreed of course, but I have to believe based on the immediate homicide determination that the COD has nothing to do with the cord because that finding would not be definitive as to accidental, homicide or even suicide on it’s own that quickly in a situation where remains were completely skeletonized (apologize for graphic).
B
“Summer and Joey were in one grave, either just one or both of their remains appear to be bound by an electrical cord and the boys are in the other.”
B
Both in one grave? Where was this reported?
Several places, including here.
B
Motive has to be love or money or deviancy.
Several places, including here.
B
Really? Several? Can you provide a link? To my knowledge, this hasn’t been released to the public. “Here” is not a viable source.
Lol. I’m sorry, did you think you were going to ask me to do your research for you? If I am not a viable source why would you come here to ask? Your knowledge would be incorrect- so much for the name “Oracle.”
B
Lol. I’m sorry, did you think you were going to ask me to do your research for you? If I am not a viable source why would you come here to ask? Your knowledge would be incorrect- so much for the name “Oracle.”
B
Excuse me, I did not “come here to ask”. I just noticed you posted that, was wondering if you could supply a link, considering you yourself ask everyone else to the same. I have never seen or heard this.
I admire your insight and intellect but your arrogance is pretty unbecoming. I merely asked a question. But if you are the ‘Viable Source’ then I would guess you’re damaging the case since the burial placement has not been formally released by LE.
Yes, you did. You literally called this site not viable. The passive aggressive approach is not going to work here “Oracle”. I am sorry if you feel that confidence in one’s work is “arrogant ” to you when you have not so much as spent the time to evaluate same.
To your ill-researched point, LE has no input as to the “who was buried with who” information. It is public and the subject of many articles and sources.
B
Blink, the SB sheriff initially declined to state how the bodies were arranged in the graves: http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20756826,00.html
The media is all over the place on this point. And, as you know, media misreports facts constantly. Subsequent media reports vary- some state that the adults were in one grave, the children in another, while at least one, this one:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2507797/Skeletal-remains-desert-missing-Californian-family-McStays.html#ixzz2qb8Mbq96 states both that “Two sets of bones were found in each of the two shallow graves” and also that “motorcyclist came across the bones in a shallow grave in the California desert on Monday. Bones belonging to three others were found in graves nearby”.
IMO, as I’ve explained before here, one set of vehicle tracks was left when JM was buried, and the other set left nearby when SM and the boys were subsequently buried, at which time JM may have been reburied.
Bips- how are you differentiating between the tracks? They are from the same equipment. How would anyone determine anyone was “Re-Buried”?
Joey and Summer were located in one of the graves- Joey Jr and G were in the other. This info is easily researched- and I mean no disrespect.
B
Blink, I applaud your confidence and no nonsense approach in keeping to the facts of this case…there has been way too much speculation, misquotes, bad reporting and poor information in this case. This site is refreshing!
Yes, you did. You literally called this site not viable. The passive aggressive approach is not going to work here “Oracle”. I am sorry if you feel that confidence in one’s work is “arrogant ” to you when you have not so much as spent the time to evaluate same.
To your ill-researched point, LE has no input as to the “who was buried with who” information. It is public and the subject of many articles and sources.
B
WOW. Ok.
No disrepect…..but you were wrong about the dirt bike rider so don’t be to sure of yourself about being ‘Viable’. But for the record, it is not part of many articles and sources, you are mistaken.
Oh I was? Is that why only a portion of the recording was made available? Have you FOIA requested such information? I have. Have you any link to that alleged error?
Seems you are link challenged all around “Oracle”.
I am not mistaken. It is very much a part of a first page google search if that is one’s only resource. And then, it is information available to several sources which have been reported. Again, a very basic search.
You wish to argue and be right. I wish to progress a case against the soul-less freaks that killed this family- most especially babies. I note you do not provide a link or any contradictory source information to my piece.
Lastly- do your homework. This site and my work are overqualified for viable. If that seems arrogant, feel free to compare with your own.
B
Bip
Your first link has been pulled and is no longer available.
There is no information in the second link that describes anything about the burials other than a relative location and some mention of the bones. This link is to a British news source. It is often good,but due to the difference in geography some of their statements must be taken as very general. There is nearly 100 miles from the grave site to the Mexican border. That to me is not close.
Unless there was someone who could vouch for the equipment or vehicle tracks from a perspective of expert, there is nothing to indicate what you have stated.
http://www.actionnewsnow.com/news/state/story/Bodies-Found-in-Calif-Desert-are-Missing-McStays/ttwtXvdymkmrZ7yPJAC6Mw.cspx?rss=2237
Blink –
1) 2 sets of tracks – I feel this is indicative that bodies were delivered and buried on two different trips by killer. If all 4 were killed at same time, would likely have been delivered in 1 trip, and thus just 1 set of tracks with 1 or 2 graves at the terminus.
2) which bodies in which graves – I have seen media accounts that JM and SM were buried together, and the boys buried together. But almost any media article has errors, and this may be a media error. I don’t care what media says, media is largely incompetent. Did the **sheriff/LE** ever publicly state who was buried together in graves? If so, please direct me to link… thx
3) Reburial – just a guess on my part to try to possibly explain mystifying third grave. Not related to the issue of 2 sets of tracks. No one would dig an extra grave and not use it. I believe JM was killed separately from SM and the boys and buried first, alone, in the grave that was ultimately found empty. Based on reasoning laid out in my theory posited/posted previously here earlier this month, I believe SM and boys may have been killed later (within days or weeks of having entered Mexico on 2/8) by same killer (who I am guessing was mystery man with whom SM may have been having an affair) who then returned to burial location, leaving second set of tracks near the first set, buried the boys in one grave, put SM in another grave, and may then, worried that grave holding JM may have been too shallow (since it was probably his first experience at digging grave, perhaps in the dark, which would not be any easy thing to do, I am sure), have moved JM’s body to SM’s deeper grave, filled it in, and then filled in the now empty shallower grave JM had initially been in.
For what it is worth, the only reason I post on this sad matter is on the odd chance that I may contribute in some small way to case being solved and justice brought.
Eloise says:
January 16, 2014 at 9:18 pm
http://www.actionnewsnow.com/news/state/story/Bodies-Found-in-Calif-Desert-are-Missing-McStays/ttwtXvdymkmrZ7yPJAC6Mw.cspx?rss=2237
Eloise, this link does not indicate which bodies were in which graves. Are you aware of a link that includes LE indicating which bodies are in which graves, i.e. buried together? Anyone? thx
Regarding the remains and who was buried in each:
In 2013, family members of the McStay family confirmed that Joseph McStay and his wife Summer McStay were found in shallow graves in the Mojave Desert. Two additional bodies that were found in a separate grave are most likely the bodies of the two children: Gianni and Joseph, but that has yet to be confirmed, according to the Los Angeles Times.
snip
The bodies of four people: A man, a woman and two children have been located. The bodies were buried in a shallow grave in the Mojave Desert. Police confirm that the bodies belong to the McStay family. The bodies of Joseph and Summer McStay were found in one grave; the bodies of the two other victims were found in a separate grave nearby.
http://www.examiner.com/article/mcstay-family-found-dead-disappeared-timeline
Oracle, Blink referred to many news reports; here’s a page 1 hit.
it’s like algebra, a + b = c
when you read news articles:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/15/us/california-bodies-found/
a. Two sets of remains are adults id’d by dental
b. “Two other remains found nearby are believed to be those of their sons”
***the 2 sons were found “near” the adults***
c. Therefore the 2 adults were in one grave & the 2 sons nearby in the other grave.
—-
btw these graves were shallow.
The perp wanted them found.
Probably got tired of waiting
& voila, dirt biker.
#42 Alli: the LA Times linked in the Examiner piece does not note which bodies were buried together. I think the Examiner writer misquoted the Times. US media outlets are mostly incompetent.
Does anyone out there have a link in which LE directly, rather than quoted/misquoted by the media, addresses the subject of arrangement of bodies in the graves? I don’t think so, cuz I’d have seen it by now. All I have seen is the video of the SB Co. sheriff stating that he would not discuss the arrangement of the bodies in the graves….
Neither the Coroner’s Office nor the SBCSD is going to make any public commentary directly on anything they have not already. I have spoken with both of them in the past on this case.
There is a solid reason for that – they are intending to withhold the cause of death for all four victims. Under Ca law- they can only exclude that information from the public under certain conditions. They are aware that public commentary on anything related directly can open the door.
You are free to discount the information received from un-named sources in any case.
I do think it odd that you have developed a theory without any facts to support it, but question sources that don’t fit it.
B
There is now debate going on over whose bodies were buried in which graves.
My question is:
Would an answer to that question be soley responsible for getting closer to finding the killer(s)?
I maintain that the cause of death , date of death, and whether or not the bodies had been killed elsewhere and moved there, what kind of clothing they had on, among the many things that the graves may reveal, is more important than who was in which grave- the whole tip off for the gravesite was because of a 911 call who said he saw some bones, that looked like a SKULL. ( that was released in the 911 call posted earlier on this site)
My point is that apparently the graves had been disturbed, Analysis of the bones scattered around compared to the bones that were unearthed would also give an idea of just when those bones were scattered.
And NO ONE, apparently, is releasing info about gravesite forensic findings to the public.
Who- the reporter stated “partial human skull”. To your point- no. Who was placed in what grave absent any other physical or forensic findings does not point to an offender just based on “it”. You are correct.
It is also correct that the remains that were found outside of the graves will potentially yield some clues at to when they were “unearthed”- but only really if it is very distinguishable from the other remains- otherwise an anthro study to determine that time is not going to be particularly helpful considering that terrain because in general the factors for consideration- sun bleaching, porosity, weathering can occur very quickly.
I also maintain that if it is true there was recent wildlife involvement after 4 years of burial- it is investigatively relevant as well. Forensic experts will be able to get pretty close to a post mortem interval, of that I have no doubt.
B
Pardon me Bip- but that was how I read it. Maybe bc I already knew the info? Sorry to confuse you.
Bip-
Re your post @ January 16, 2014 at 9:24 pm:
How can you determine what time frame the tracks were made? Same time, different time etc? I get what you are saying, but after such a length of time- how do you know when those tracks were laid?
. Alli says: January 16, 2014 at 10:25 pm
Regarding the remains and who was buried in each:
In 2013, family members of the McStay family confirmed that Joseph McStay and his wife Summer McStay were found in shallow graves in the Mojave Desert. Two additional bodies that were found in a separate grave are most likely the bodies of the two children: Gianni and Joseph, but that has yet to be confirmed, according to the Los Angeles Times.
snip
The bodies of four people: A man, a woman and two children have been located. The bodies were buried in a shallow grave in the Mojave Desert. Police confirm that the bodies belong to the McStay family. The bodies of Joseph and Summer McStay were found in one grave; the bodies of the two other victims were found in a separate grave nearby.
http://www.examiner.com/article/mcstay-family-found-dead-disappeared-timeline
Hey, thanks for supplying that without being, well you know. I appreciate that. A simple amount of civility goes a long way.
You mean like not disrespecting your hosts “viability” or apologizing when you were wrong in the first place? Like that kind of civility you mean? I agree that kind of decorum is very effective in communication and requests.
B
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2533474/EXCLUSIVE-McStay-family-husband-feared-wife-POISONING-disappeared-dead-desert-claims-explosive-new-book.html
Chase Merritt stated “But despite that public front, I know, prior to their disappearance they had not had sex in more than a year. . . Merritt added: “If I’m honest, I have no idea why he put up with it. He was such a great guy and he got his share of female attention. I remember one woman in particular was all over him for a while. . .” “He always said, ‘I have messed up one family before, I will not be unfaithful and ruin another one’.
WRT to the above article: For Joe to state that “I will not be unfaithful and ruin another one (family), indicates that a woman did hit on Joe, he rebuffed her but still may have been flattered by the attention. It’s plausible that the significant other (SO) of this unnamed woman came to believe that there was an affair occurring between his woman and Joe. If the S.O. confronted Joe about it the interchange could have become heated and physical/violent very quickly. Realizing that he killed Joe, he then decided to prevent anyone from missing Joe by going after Summer. The oldest reason in the human history, murder due to jealousness.
@ Oracle
Safe to say that had Alli not provided that link, that you would still be floundering about? You’re going to need thicker skin to hang out in these parts, especially if you’re going to come in gun’s ablazin’…lol!
Our “feelings” play second fiddle to hanging someone for the death of these two babies…always will…