McStay Family Murdered: Will Desert Graves Yield Their Killers?
Deserted in the Desert
Gianni Family Photo
Gianni Martelli McStay had rock star hair at only 4years old. His little brother Joseph, affectionately nicknamed Chubba- did as well. They both rocked a beanie like no other little dudes.
Chubba Family Photo
Gianni and Chubba were as inseparable in life as they were in death when they were recovered in a shallow grave in the Mojave Desert on November 11.
Their parents, Joseph, 40 and Summer McStay, 43, were located in a separate grave nearby.
A 3rd gravesite was found-but empty. A protected source not authorized to speak to the media has confirmed that at least one of the parent’s remains was bound by an electrical cord.
While formal DNA comparisons and autopsy protocols are pending, the manner of death in all four victims have been declared homicides.
Just about 50 yards off the intersection of Route 15 and Quarry Rd the family that San Diego County Sheriff’s Department (SDCSD) believed was “likely” voluntarily missing on their own and living in Mexico, was recovered in a 30 hour excavation process. An off road motorcycle enthusiast called the San Bernardino County Sheriff when he came across what he suspected was human remains.
Last April SDCSD forwarded the McStay case to the FBI based on their conclusions that the McStay’s had McGone to Mexico, following a lengthy complaint of their handling of the case by Patrick McStay, Joseph’s Father. Troy Dugal, previous lead investigator of the McStay case, appeared on several news and cable television programs over the last three years explaining there was “overwhelming” circumstantial evidence the family of four that was pictured crossing the border into Tijuana, Mexico the evening of February 8th, 2010 was in fact, the McStays.
Following the recovery, San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Office will maintain jurisdiction of the investigation.
Frenemies.. Frenethieves.. Friends.. Family or Cartel?
Who brutally murders innocent children and dumps them in a hole they dug in the desert?
Logically- someone who is very familiar with the area. Of course it is just as shocking and horrific to murder anyone, but it takes a specific brand of evil to murder a baby. Make that two.
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that either Joseph or Summer McStay had any ties to drugs, associates with ties to drugs or cartel, at any time. None.
Contrary to a top selling book on the case, “No Goodbyes” by Rick Baker, there has never been any evidence whatsoever that Summer McStay was some sort of closeted psychotic and homicidal type. The book goes on to malign members of both Joseph and Summer’s families and in some cases outright accuses same of extortion or stealing. Baker’s subsequent public theory is that Summer murdered Joseph and everyone should be looking for her and the boys in Mexico.
Not surprisingly , Baker has requested Amazon pull his book from available stock and has offered refunds to prior purchases. Popular online sleuth sites previously promoting “No Goodbye’s” have since either deleted it’s hundreds of posts endorsing Baker, or moved them to a member’s only private viewing area.
Albeit obtusely, Baker does touch on a troubling and serious abuse allegation concerning Joseph McStay’s oldest son from his first marriage, Jonah, and his step-father, Michael McFadden. He writes summer filed a complaint with Child Protective Services after she and Joseph recorded a conversation with Jonah and placed a copy of same with a private party for safekeeping. Blinkoncrime.com has been able to independently verify that is accurate, but that the investigation was not known to be completed until shortly after the McStay’s disappearance. Under California probate law, Jonah would be an heir to the McStay estate or as otherwise provisioned in the instance of an existing will.
Interviewed by Laura Ling for E! Investigation, Joseph McStay’s web administrator Dan Kavanaugh claims he was the first to become concerned. In Baker’s book, he refers to him as a suspect and details how he alleges he was funneling cash from McStay’s business account before he or anyone else knew the family was missing. Kavanaugh has an unrelated open criminal matter in San Diego County according to court records.
Chase Merritt- Joseph McStay’s business partner in his water fountain design and installation business was the last number ever dialed from his phone at 8:28PM on February 4th. Merritt joined McStay in a lunch meeting earlier that afternoon where they discussed a proposal for a very large car wash chain to feature custom fountains in each facility. According to family friend MacCargar McGyver, McStay was very excited about the opportunity. Merritt claims he passed a voluntary lie detector test, and that he was adamant that Joseph McStay would never have taken his family to Mexico and has always believed they met with foul play.
McGYver spent several days leading up to February 4th at the McStay home due to a painter Summer hired not returning to complete the job. McGyver introduced Summer and Joseph and by all accounts was a close confidant of the couple.
Patrick McStay, Joseph’s Father living in Texas has had some harsh words for the investigation into the disappearance of his son, daughter in law and grandsons.
“…most botched, inept investigation I’ve ever seen in my entire life.”
He also believes very strongly that the list of suspects with motive to kill his family members is very short. Three, to be exact.
He said the department didn’t even bother to contact him to tell him his son’s remains had been found.
“I got a message from someone [on Thursday] on Facebook telling me to go and read an article,” McStay said. “The minute I read the article, I knew it was him.”
“I have exhausted and have so much information on three possible persons of interest. All have a motive.”
The three individuals are not connected to each other, but all of them seem like likely candidates. Patrick says one of them seems to be a particularly likely suspect: he’s a wealthy man with a long rap sheet that includes charges of attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon and burglary. McStay says he, too, has a motive for killing his son.
Although Mr. McStay did not reference him by name, he may be referring to Michael James McFadden, who was arrested in July 1998 and charged with attempted murder and a litany of other felonies including great bodily harm to a child:
459/460(a) PC – Burglary 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Assault 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
273.5(a) PC – Domestic Violence 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
12022.7(d) PC – Infliction of great bodily injury on a child under the age of five … 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Assault 07/16/1999 02/25/2000 Dismissed
240 PC – Attempt to inflict violent force on another person. 07/16/1999 02/25/2000 Dismissed
245(a)(1) PC – Assault with a deadly weapon other than a firearm 07/16/1998 01/18/2000 Pled Guilty
12022.7(d) PC – Infliction of great bodily injury on a child under the age of five… 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Criminal Terrorist Threat 07/16/1999 01/18/2000 Pled Guilty
664-187 PC – Attempted Murder 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
You will note some of the charges are from 1998, others 1999 on the anniversary date, McFadden successfully negotiated a plea agreement and only pled to criminal terroristic threats and assault with a deadly weapon other than a firearm. Both felonies.
In the complaint he lodged against the detectives in SDCSD, Patrick McStay specifically references failure to interview key suspects he provided to LE directly.
Given the location of the bodies, it would seem that whoever is responsible would at least want investigators to think McFadden was involved. As a self-proclaimed mountain bike “racer”, McFadden has participated in several bike events in various locations all along the Route 15 Mojave corridor. SBCSO says they will be re-interviewing everyone in the case and have no suspects.
There have been no named suspects to date and the investigation is ongoing. Memorial or Funeral arrangements for the McStay’s have not yet been announced . LATE EDIT: The family and friends of the McStay family will gather at the grave site in Victorville, on Joseph’s McStay’s birthday.
To be continued in Part 2: Analysis of the last day of their lives points to involvement by someone they knew.
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Ms. Blink: Your professional standards appear to be impeccable.I struggle with everything because I am a deeply rooted skeptic. But you, I completely trust. Your opinion regarding the Trooper being backed up into the driveway must be a fact you know about. If you say it was, then there must have been witnesses who saw it around the time of the abduction….is my assumption correct?
Soundbeach- I appreciate the compliment but I would also offer I am a deeply rooted skeptic about anything and everything in investigative analysis. It is part of the job that everything must be rooted in fact and if it cannot be- it remains “possible or probable” based on other factors.
So to that end- I cannot say WHO backed the trooper into the driveway as it was when it left the home at 7:47PM, only that it was definitely backed in by someone and left the driveway and made a left turn. I also cannot say that the McStay’s were abducted. Out of every witness or family member I could not find one to say that Joey ever backed the truck in to the driveway- and keep in mind the garage was full of items and the trooper was found with the rear cargo area full.
The home was definitely left as to indicate they (or someone) left abruptly, but to my knowledge was never any signs of a struggle or forced entry.
B
A possible beginning to the story-
The amoxicillin was for JM. He took the first dose and started painting (fresh paint aggrivates asthma). He had a reaction/short of breath episode/medical emergency. Hence the need to leave quickly with the whole family.
search- amoxicillin side effects in detail-drugs.com – then scroll to hypersensitivity.
I suspect drugs.com prevented me from linking here ????? I tried copy/paste X4.
Mo, just fyi I cant support that any Amoxicillin was purchased. I do know none was found.
B
blink writes:
The home was definitely left as to indicate they (or someone) left abruptly, but to my knowledge was never any signs of a struggle or forced entry.
——-
here is a link to a video with Tim Miller going to the house. He says that they consider it a crime scene, but that he has been given permission to go inside.
Why aren’t there any signs of fingerprinting having been done?Isn’t that like, step one?
I thought Tim said it was not a crime scene, but I will check it again.
The house was never processed as a crime scene. That may be because Susan Blake cleaned it and they washed some bedding right after calling police. But in terms of a CSI team doing field testing to determine next steps- I am not aware of that ever occurring.
SDSD is something else, respectfully submitted. The not only release a possible crime scene and all it’s contents and when Mr. Miller and TES come to town to evaluate for search criteria whatever they told him ran him off. A review of that investigation had better be forthcoming.
B
link for previous post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V_51VBResE
laman said-
according to Patrick there are some things happening in the coming weeks.
Blink said-
that family was murdered in those graves.
A new grieving to begin.
Thank you Blink for giving us a place to put our heads and hearts together.
Mo- I would just ask that you address those comments as quotes with links- I think you may have been having an issue with that if I can help.
But yes, I absolutely believe this family was murdered where they laid and were recovered November 11, 2013. God rest their souls.
B
Blink writes;
I thought Tim said it was not a crime scene, but I will check it again
—
Blink in this video ( link below) , beginning at about 0:10- Tim Miller says very quickly ” we think it still is a crime scene”, and then continues his sentence about being allowed in. I played it back several times to be sure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V_51VBResE
Perhaps this long delay between finding the bodies and any public announcements about where the investigation is at the moment is connected in part to the revelations of procedural failings and mis -steps in general on the part of SDSD. And as we know, Patrick McStay has been saying this all along.
Would mistakes made by SDSD affect a trial and conviction?
—–
You can bet that if this goes to trial it will, absolutely. It will prolong the investigation for SBDCD
B
Well I find it almost laughable that people suggest machinery left those tracks and dug the holes. The graves are almost perpendicular to the tracks and even if the digger was one of the rotating kinds, it wouldn’t work. these tracks were made by a pickup trucks. The weight in the bed is from the dead bodies in the back of the truck and the truck itself. It rained for 6 hours on the 6th of February as reported by George AFB just 6 miles a way. It’s obvious to everyone except to those who want to sensationalize the story to fit their narrative. Now is it possible the graves were dug on another day with the digger. Remotely but why only dig 12 to 23 inches deep? That would be idiotic with a digging machine.
Im sorry but what are you calling a “digger”, a “digging machine” and what reference can you provide that George AFB reported it rained for 6 hours on February 6th?
How do you know how deep the graves were dug? Why would it be idiotic in your opinion?
B
Blink says: SDSD is something else, respectfully submitted. The not only release a possible crime scene and all it’s contents and when Mr. Miller and TES come to town to evaluate for search criteria whatever they told him ran him off. A review of that investigation had better be forthcoming.
Blink, I have been thinking the same thing. Would you think that the SDSD officers that handled this investigation will have their actions and decisions thoroughly investigated and receive disciplinary actions? It is hard to believe that they wouldn’t be investigated. It makes me sick to think that they made so many false assumptions about this family.
Second question, have you settled on a theory about who was involved and what happened to the McStays? I am not asking you to divulge your theory, just curious if you have settled on one. Every time I think I have decided on a theory, something else is exposed to add another layer to this case. Maybe you can answer this question, do you believe this was a professional hit? It seems to me that this was either a very personal, rage murder or a professional hit. I cannot imagine a murderer killing those babies under other circumstances.
Thanks again for doing what you do. This case is maddening and I cannot wait for an end to it and justice for that family and those beautiful babies.
Patrick McStay filed an 11 count complaint against them in 2011, iirc. To the extent that they could, they were reviewed, but because the investigation was still active and most of the details would not be able to be released to the “board” for review- it could not determine if it should affirm his complaints. Until the case is solved, I would presume they will have the same opinion if Patrick renewed his complaint for review now that the family has been recovered, however, when there are arrests or other forthcoming investigative information available that would support it- I have every belief he will request a full review again with updated information.
I would say that I have a loose but working theory that is shaping a profile, yes.
B
it was a weather report that I had to purchase from https://weathersource.com. Observed rainfall from George Air force base was 6 hours on the 6th, with no other rain observed that week. part two. Why go through the effort of digging with a bobcat like machine and not dig it deep enough? I think on a previous day the graves were dug without the bodies. Then a couple of days later when they felt the coast was clear drove out to the site and dumped the bodies. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYfsBKZ3gDc. Oh and I have a spreadsheet from the weatehrsource.
How are you determining the depth was wrong? It concealed the remains of 4 people for nearly four years? So why was the coast clear- and where where these murdered and deceased folks apparently undetected for days stored in your opinion?
B
in other words there is no chance that a skid steer was used to dig those holes.
I what u think is true , and they died
In the graves, it means
the hell they went through was worse
Than ones heart can imagine
We as a society have to say enough
May god keep them safe now forever
In his memory
Sadly- I believe they did, and the evidence will support it. It was heinous.
B
http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/11/20/mcstay-family-murdered-will-desert-graves-yield-their-killers/comment-page-21/#comment-2216194
‘were made by a pickup trucks.’
gray hughes makes perfect sense. Just two sets of tracks. No tracks going back and forth digging. The northern most grave was done first as the southern most tracks are lighter.
Oye. What are tracks going back and forth digging looking like to you? Respectfully, have you read earlier posts on this matter?
B
I found this comment. Do you know if there is a checkpoint? Thank you!
***
Fallbrook and Bonsall are south of the Border Patrol checkpoint on I-15 while Victorville is well north. How would one transport an abducted family of four, whether dead or alive through or around this checkpoint?
Yes, there is a permanent checkpoint on I-15 in Temecula.
B
Blink writes:
and what reference can you provide that George AFB reported it rained for 6 hours on February 6th
——–
Here is a site that refers to weather in Victorville, including February of 2010. Unfortunately, it is not a specific day by day chart.
But it is still interesting to see that they report the wettest day of the year was on Jan 21-
also interesting is that the following December, it was raining a lot- How oh how did those graves stay undiscovered and apparently fairly untouched, for so long?
in any case, this will give you an idea of weather conditions recorded for Victorville in 2010.
http://weatherspark.com/history/31882/2010/Victorville-California-United-States
Oye…there are no tracks going back and forth. There are two sets of tracks leading from the wash that lead directly to each grave and stop just before it. smh
Um, yeah. See my last response.
B
The first set of tracks is around 40 feet long. so you are saying that the skid Steer went back and forth over and over? The pickup in the mud would back in unload the bodies then back out. creating a deep groove. It then hardened over time. There are no tracks in the wash because they washed away…you know…because it’s a wash. Are you trying to sell a narrative for a particular reason?
1. Establish your measurement sources. What tracks are you referring to exactly that are 40′ long?
2. What is a “deep grove” in crime scene analysis and what is your source point?
3. Hardened over time? Do you have those specs in support?
This is not a wash. What are you talking about?
I do not know what selling a narrative means in investigative criminal analysis- it is actually the antithesis of a finding. Not to be disrespectful- but if you are simply offering a layperson opinion, that is fine, I am going to disagree, but if you are going to offer something as fact than you are going to need to do so accordingly.
B
Please advise what patrick has saidbwill be happening in the coming weeks. I looked but could not find anything. Thank you.
the measurement source is Google Earth Pro, which is extremely accurate. It too measured the width around 64 to 67 inches. We have someone who went out and measure the tracks and video taped the entire scene. Respectfully you don’t seem like you are even familiar with the site. What you think is a dirt road is actually a wash that people use to drive up when it’s not raining. The dirt is much different in the wash. Very small pebbles really. Off the wash is easy dirt to dig in. Mud would come with little rain. It doesn’t take a genius to know that mud hardens. Have you ever been to a farm where cows walk. In the summer footprints from cows last forever. It’s like asking me for a source to prove that plants grow towards sunlight. Who doesn’t know that? To be honest I would rather be a lay person with reasoning ability then someone who spouts out ludicrous theories. I notice you didn’t comment on the fact that it rained for 6 hours on february 6th right there. Why don’t you look that information up and you will find it.
Gray- would love to see your video. Not sure why you would not post it- as it supports “your narrative”. Any chance we will be seeing it on an upcoming feature of the case?
Respectfully, I work with a geo spatial analyst in this case. We are well aware of the weather in the region. If your work has you confirming those tracks are from a pick up in a wash and excluding other possibilities than I respectfully submit you are in the wrong line of work.
B
track hardening. There are even fossil footprints that have been found.
http://books.google.com/books?id=0ycNGiky3KoC&pg=PA34&lpg=PA34&dq=do+tracks+in+mud+harden+over+time?&source=bl&ots=1vikWEIsD0&sig=xgF3MKhuruQ27JSlsoPDKLpHzR0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=gpLoUqHEJIqDogTQ7IKYCA&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=do%20tracks%20in%20mud%20harden%20over%20time%3F&f=false
well, I never said I excluded any other possibilities but I am excluding the equipment you suggested. wow! big words! A geo spatial analyst. Hey, above you said you weren’t aware of the weather and wanted sources. Now you say you are aware of the weather. Hopefully yo are aware that it rained for 6 hours on the 6th and not before that. I said above someone from our group went out and shot many videos of the site and actually measured the tracks from low point to low point and got between 64 and 65 inches every time. Have you been to the site? How about your Geo Spatial Analyst? LOL
Gray- pardon my iphone it is Geospatial analyst. I did not say I was not aware of the weather and wanted sources- I said this:
(snip)Im sorry but what are you calling a “digger”, a “digging machine” and what reference can you provide that George AFB reported it rained for 6 hours on February 6th?
I was asking you to support your claim as appropriate. Thank you for doing so.
It should also be noted that while I would agree with you that there was substantive rain that day, it actually only ranged from moderate to light. There was SUBSTANTIAL rainfall recorded ( most for the year) on January 21st. I have the entire historical data. There are many factors to consider in addition to just rainfall. Like for example the significant wind speeds as one example.
I am not familiar with the term “high point to low point” as it relates to measuring tread/tracks. This is my point. Forensically, it is IMPOSSIBLE to say what “made the tracks” without actually having to build the experiment one’s self, under exact conditions.
So another “big word” here ( and hopefully you have concluded the sarcastic portion of your program by now) is stratification. Soil composition and stratification are critical elements to concluding “what made the tracks” just to start the baseline for analysis.
So unless someone is willing to duplicate conditions exactly ( it’s impossible- how can you control the weather of course) with multiple types of vehicles in question, the most we can do is eliminate and by the process of exclusion get pretty close (in theory).
B
BTW it’s Geospatial analyst, two words, not three.
Aware, thanks
B
I posted this earlier on this thread:
“Interesting email and IM exchange about Kavanaugh. Not sure if this site is legit or not, but interesting nonetheless. http://texarville.com/?p=1554
It is not authenticated as to dates time and exchanges, but it is authentic as to Dk and JM.
B”
I still think that IM exchange (if authentic) speaks volumes about DK and his motives to potentially harm that family. Some of his comments could be very telling under the circumstances. My guess is that there was no buyout, DK got mad, and more than followed through on his threats.
I can tell you that DK did follow through on some of the site-related threats for sure.
B
the tracks that are approximately 40 feet long on the first set of tracks as you head up the wash/dirt road. We aren’t allowed to upload video here or images, so I can’t show you what I mean. Here is a google earth video that shows you where the graves are. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAZnlqvvtCk. Also in the truck backing in video, the first spot the truck backs in is where the tracks are about 40 feet long from the wash/dirt road. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYfsBKZ3gDc
Gray- in your truck video you are saying it is actually grave 2 (not marked), as the first set of tracks you are referring to that you feel the tracks are 40ft long coming from the upper dirt road access, is that correct?
B
gray hugs writes:
track hardening. There are even fossil footprints that have been found.
http://books.google.com/books?id=0ycNGiky3KoC&pg=PA34&lpg=PA34&dq=do+tracks+in+mud+harden+over+time?&source=bl&ots=1vikWEIsD0&sig=xgF3MKhuruQ27JSlsoPDKLpHzR0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=gpLoUqHEJIqDogTQ7IKYCA&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=do%20tracks%20in%20mud%20harden%20over%20time%3F&f=false
——–
I am not clear why you are referencing fossils that form over thousands of years on a beach in connection with tracks that you believe lead to the grave sites, but I am always glad to learn something!
This information however, just makes me wonder if the tracks were there all along, previous to any burials, and in the same way that prehistoric dinosaur footprints can be revealed after thousands of years, so were the tire tracks.
General Question:
Blink,
HOW do the tracks that are within range of the grave sites result in a conviction of who committed this crime?
What exactly do the tracks prove that is relevant to convicting the murder(s) of the McStay family? Does that mean anyone who owned a vehicle matching the tracks is guilty of murdering the McStays? Are the tracks relevant because they could illustrate aforethought, ergo premeditation?
We already know that this crime was premeditated, there is no way that two children could have caused anyone to defend themselves against them.Even if one of the McStays was ” accidentally” killed and the rest of the family was then done away with to prevent witnesses, that takes more than a moment of forethought.
To reference a disastrous case of disrupted justice, Casey Anthony admitted to borrowing a shovel from a neighbor and using it. But there was no way to prove if she had used that shovel in connection with a burial.
Just trying to figure out why the focus on tracks, thanks in advance.
What is interesting to me is that , apparently, it was Mike McStay who brought attention to the tracks. In this article ( take it for what its worth), it is worded in a way that makes it appear that the tracks went unnoticed until Mike McStay pointed them out.
Here is a snip:
“Police are looking at the theory that a digger was used after Joseph’s brother Michael visited the site yesterday, spotted the markings and called a detective working on the case.
A police spokeswoman told MailOnline: ‘Our investigators would not have used heavy lifting machinery during the excavation for fear of damaging evidence. I am glad to hear Mr McStay contacted us with with this information.’
And Gray’s measurements are different apparently.
B
—–
for the article in its entirety:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2511190/Mystery-digger-track-marks-McStay-family-grave-site.html
yes they are different then Michael McStay’s but only by 2 inches. That is why I am including betweent 64 and 67 inches or did you miss that reply?
You realize those measurements do not preclude heavy equipment, right?
Can you be more specific as to the method of measurement? Depending upon where in the track field those measurements were taken, it could mean something else as well.
ie: Measurements taken in area X, left to right, on what would appear to be the raised outer ridge of tire track from outer sidewall to parallel right, straight line, what appears to be right tire track outer sidewall. Measurements method to determine possible vehicle transportation or heavy equipment usage, etc.
Why can’t you post images or video here?
B
and yes, the unmarked grave in the video would be grave2 and those tracks are approximately 40 feet long. The width between tires is between 64 and 67. The person in our group who measured them only got 65 a bunch of times and 64 once however. The individual width of the tires was measured at about 1 foot.
g
brad says:
January 28, 2014 at 11:53 pm
Please advise what patrick has saidbwill be happening in the coming weeks. I looked but could not find anything. Thank you.
I agree with Brad – I have never seen where Patrick has said anything is forthcoming.
Whodunnit. I am showing how tracks can harden and they do so quickly because of the normally dry arid conditons of the desert. have you ever been to a cow pasture where they leave deep muddy prints. As soon as the sun hardens them they are there for years. Same affect here. Anyhow some different data for you all to chew on.
laman says:
January 27, 2014 at 5:36 pm
Hi Ms. Blink:
According to Patrick there are some things happening in the coming weeks. Have you any news you’re able to share? Thanks!!
I have already stated it is my opinion that a gj is being impaneled, and y’all know about the upcoming coverages. Outside of that I would recommend asking Mr. McStay.
B
Where does Patrick say some things are happening in the coming weeks?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYfsBKZ3gDc&hd=1
gray hughes- excellent work. I like the second scenario . The longer tracks look lighter to me. Are they? And the perp maybe decided to back in farther there because he didnt get stuck in the mud on the shorter tracks.
A) To 25/whodunnit: the sheriff’s dept. would certainly have been aware of the two sets of tracks to the graves when MM observed the tracks. After all, the tracks are easily seen, even to this day, on google maps aerial image
B) To Gray Hughes: great work on the simulation of truck backing up to grave sites. Why would you guess that the perp was compelled to pull out and move over to a second site for second grave? In other words, why not just bury all 4 bodies in 1 grave or in 2 graves right next to each other? I personally think the reason that there are 2 sets of tracks and 2 graves is that the perp may have made 2 trips to the burial site. First trip on 2/5 to 2/7 to bury JM (late 2/6 perhaps a likely date, as soil would have been wet, resulting in long-lasting tracks being left, and because the rainy weather would have helped keep off-roaders away and may have provided some cover). Second trip perhaps days or weeks later, after SM may have gone off deep end in Mexico, leading perp (the third part of theoretical love triangle) to eliminate her and boys in an effort to try to avoid prison). I am guessing that the grave furthest up the wash was dug first, as the truck tire tracks appear to be deeper, and the second grave further down the wash, to the southeast, dug at a later date, leaving tracks that appear to be not as deep perhaps because the soil had dried out some following the rains of January and 2/6/10.
C) To: Blink/anyone – can someone identify on the google maps aerial of the burial site
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3744/10978867115_01cd7d32f5_z.jpg
the location of the third grave, which grave is reported (in various media accounts) to have been determined to be empty?
Blink writes:
And Gray’s measurements are different apparently.
B
—–
not wanting to add fuel to the fire of the tire tracks ( which I still don’t understand the diligent focus on, as pertains to a conviction, but anyway):
What about if it were true that a vehicle had backed into the area of the grave sites= not to dump the bodies, but to deposit dirt , that was then in turn spread on top of the shallow graves?
Dumping soil on top of shallow graves would effectively increase the depth, and the passage of four years could then have eroded that looser material exposing the original sites.
And how can it be proven which direction the vehicle was going, up or down the slight rise, without knowing exactly what the state of the earth was at the time the tracks were made????
And what about that plant growing in the middle of the tracks at the lowest point? Couldn’t you compare the age of the growth of the plant , examine the depth of roots, subsoil attached to its roots , with the exposed spoil in the tire tracks and reach some kind of conclusion?
I am just throwing all these red herring oriented statements and question to illustrate how easy it is to come up with concepts when under the influence of confirmation bias.
Is there any way that the area of the gravesides could be viewed over the time period of Dec 2012 ( or earlier), to nov 2013? Do any archived surveillance tapes, made for any propose that would include the area of the grave sites exist? Wouldn’t that put a perspective on when the tracks first appeared?
This is an interesting fact: There are many MANY tunnels crossing under the border,enabling marijuana cocaine, heroin and humans to be transported from mexico to the US avoiding the border crossing up above. These tunnels open up into parking lots, warehouses and otherwise unremarkable places all along the border.
Here is a link t the list of tunnels :
http://m.utsandiego.com/news/2013/oct/31/border-tunnels/
In this list , we see numerous references to tunnels found in Otay Mesa. Otay Mesa is six miles east of San Ysdiro.
The majority of tunnels referenced in this list were discovered in Otay Mesa. Some in Nogales Arizona, and a few in San Ysidro.
Here is a snip from this list, citing some of the discoveries of tunnels in San Diego :
San Ysidro, Calif. June 5, 2010. Mexican authorities announced that an incomplete smuggling tunnel was found east of the San Ysidro Port of Entry. The passageway is about 500 feet long, more than a yard wide and 2½ feet high.
San Ysidro, Calif. Oct. 23, 2006. U.S. authorities found an incomplete tunnel just west of the San Ysidro Port of entry. It had no U.S. exit.
Otay Mesa, Calif. Oct. 10, 2006. San Diego Tunnel Task Force discovered a cross-border passageway used by a human smuggling operation. The tunnel started in a Mexican drainage system and then tapped into a concrete pipe that had once been used to deliver liquefied oxygen into the United States.
San Ysidro, Calif. Sept. 26, 2006. Mexican authorities found a tunnel that started in a junk yard controlled by Mexican Customs that went 26 feet into the United States. Two Mexican Customs inspectors were among five people arrested.
San Ysidro, Calif. May 25, 2006. Border Patrol agents and Mexican authorities found an unfinished tunnel west of the San Ysidro Port of Entry.
San Ysidro, Calif. May 16, 2006. An incomplete tunnel was found after a portion of it collapsed. It didn’t have a U.S. exit.
San Ysidro, Calif. May 12, 2006. U.S. authorities found a tunnel that had been bolstered in some sections with plastic tubing. It extended 20 yards into the United States and the exit was in a parking lot, covered with an iron plate.
San Ysidro, Calif. Oct. 23, 2006. U.S. authorities found an incomplete tunnel just west of the San Ysidro Port of entry. It had no U.S. exit
There are TWO ports of entry to Mexico from Sandiego: One is Otay Mesa and the other is San Ysidro, San Ysidro is the port of entry that yielded a video of a family of four crossing into Mexico, that SDPD i latched onto to “prove” their theory that the McStays disappeared voluntarily.
Their Izusu was discovered within the circumference of an area that had been linked with the discovery of human and drug smuggling tunnels.
TO BE CLEAR:
I do NOT think this means that the MCstays were involved with any cartel dealings.
BUT
I DO think it is possible that SDPD was perhaps in general more focused on the border problems of drug trade, and were unable to look objectively and clearly at what had happened to the MCStays. Its almost like they thought they had bigger fish to fry. They made an awful lot of discoveries and busts regarding drug tunnels in the past few years, but sure managed to miss a lot concerning the McStays.
Do you recall very early I said this case reminded me of THE BRIDGE?
That said, I do not think the McStay’s were involved in anything having to do with tunnels and such.
B
This exchange with Gray makes me ask some questions.
Has anyone classified the soil in the area of the graves and the soil above and below the grave sites?
If this area is thought to be a “dry wash” which is common in deserts, how much soil has been moved into the area by wind or water during the years following the digging of the graves? Or the converse, how much has been removed?
Desert soils are often a combination of finely ground marble or granite that has been eroded from nearby rock formations and broken into fine or small size and mixed over time with other minerals and decayed vegetable matter.
There is evidence in the area that highway engineers were concerned about erosion by wind or water where the natural drainage would move water under the roadbed of I-15. To prevent this, they used rock of eight to ten inches diameter as “rip-rap” for protection.
If Gray’s group actually visited the area of the graves, did anyone think to dig a test hole with a shovel?
Agreed it would be an essential start.
B
http://www.nbcnews.com/video/dateline/48266209/#48266209
They need to get Larry Montgomery, from the Orange County DA (The Evidence Whisperer) on this case.
His work on that case was excellent.
B
If this is from the same collection of videos I saw, the videographer was easily able to dig a small whole with her foot. The soil was so loose it appeared a person could have dug two shallow graves and been in and out of there in under an hour.
On who was buried with who, it would be a good educated guess that the children were buried separate from their parents even if we had no resources to verify it. One grave was smaller and one grave was larger. I’m also guessing that since, according to the Sheriff’s press conference, the graves were approximately 20 feet apart, the children were separated from their parents while still alive at the grave site. There’s really no other reason I can think of for the distance. It looks to me like someone wanted to extract the greatest amount of horror and anguish from these parents imaginable. I really do think the dump site is the murder site, as well. It seems so…personal.
On the subject of animal predation, I’m curious as to why the coyotes didn’t unearth a lot more remains, particularly during decomposition. One answer could be that I read the coyotes in that area tended to stick to the immediate outskirts of the towns because food was more widely available and easily accesible.
Hi Jane- welcome to BOC. Have you read previous comments in this thread?
B
yes, she dug a hole with a knife about as big as a basketball in like 1 minute. A shovel would have been real easy to dig a large hole unless you hit bedrock. But it was amazing how easy it was for her to dig.
BTW, if you go to google earth the last two satellite images are from 3/21/2013 and the next most recent one is 6/19/2009. The 2009 image, while more blurry shows no tracks but the one in march 2013 does. The march image is obviously before the bodies were discovered, which rules out them being cause by law enforcement as they arrived at the site. The tracks are 100% created by the person/s that buried the bodied. Unless by some miracle inbetween those 4 years, someone randomly drove right up to both grave sites and then back out. That is about a likely as winning Powerball 3 times in a row…hell even worse.
Blink, you said, “Hi Jane- welcome to BOC. Have you read previous comments in this thread?
B”
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Thank you! I’ve read most of the previous posts. I am curious about the tire tracks leading to each grave. The Sheriff said at the press conference that the graves were one to two feet deep. I’m assuming he meant total depth. If so, it seems a huge effort to bring heavy equipment to dig so shallowly, but the tracks are there. There’s no disputing that. Could it be the killer(s) took advantage of two low spots in the earth that were already there? I used to live in the desert, and these depressions can last for years. If he/they did use a digger, I hope to hear one day why he didn’t dig deeper. It would have been the “perfect” crime if he did. Most, unfortunately LE, too, believed they had disappeared voluntarily into Mexico, and I don’t believe that would have ever changed except for the discovery of the remains.
**********************
Blink, you said, “I can tell you that DK did follow through on some of the site-related threats for sure.
B”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
While Joey was still alive? Are you at liberty to say more?
Not yet, no.
B
@who. After reading the Daily Mail on Horman case yesterday, much of which is inaccurate, and which writing seems to have been prompted by an interested relative, I wouldn’t rely on anything written there.
In areas such as a desert or those that can be classified as desert, there is often a soil product produced that is known as caliche. It is a Spanish name name for a mixture of lime or calcium carbonate.
In Southwest and West Texas there are vast areas where this material is found under a layer of loose soil. It is like concrete and requires machinery to remove it. Sometimes a backhoe or a machine with a suitable bucket on the front is sufficient, but other times a jack hammer is required.
It is very likely that the site near Victorville for the graves contains such a layer. Just how deep or how much loose soil is present is not known.
In addition there is the possibility that the area contains gypsum which is deposited the same as caliche. Digging in that material is almost as difficult as caliche.
For those who cannot relate to gypsum, it is the primary material used to make sheetrock for walls. The area around Sweetwater, Texas is a major source of gypsm and several companies operate plants for making sheetrock.
Most of Southwest and West Texas is classified as desert areas and the whole of San Bernardino County is desert.
Gray Hughs writes:
BTW, if you go to google earth the last two satellite images are from 3/21/2013 and the next most recent one is 6/19/2009.
—————-
I found a link to google earth satellite Victorville dated Feb 2, 2010. Maybe it will help fill in more of the blanks between June 2009 and March 2013?
https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?source=s_q&geocode=&mrt=all&ie=UTF8&hq=VICTOR+VALLEY,&hnear=California&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=100921335095989509438.00047ea7a118bc4135dcc
here is a video of the winter storm in Victorville, on Jan. 20, 2010., 15 days before the McStay disappearance, and theoretically 15 days before graves were dug and they were buried in Victorville.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_xRGUOZ1ZE
There were severe thereunder storms in Victorville in October 2010.
Would this amount of rain have affected tire prints that had hardened ?
Wouldn’t the grooves made by the tire prints have turned into a trough for the large amount of rain and have been thusly affected?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcfMGxu7avo
no, the graves were 20 feet
Gray- can I ask you to copy the post you are responding to, identifying same, and then respond please?
Also, I think there are a few responses or replies from me you have not mentioned- are you seeing those? TIA
B
If a gj is being put together
Wouldnt that mean they have a
Suspect in jail as we speak, if so
When wil general public know?
When bodies discoverd le said
Third grave was unrelated,
What has changed?
No. But it would likely mean they have a suspect or suspects.
B
And do you think third grave was gonna be
Used for someone else other than mcstays?
I am just really not sure at this point.
B
Flash flood footage in Victorville, July 4, 2011.
This flood happened in Victorville 17 months after alledged tire marks on a downward slope leading to the grave sites. Wold the tracks have been so hardened by then that this flash flood would have had no affect?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeJHQz_nbMc