McStay Family Murdered: Will Desert Graves Yield Their Killers?
Deserted in the Desert
Gianni Family Photo
Gianni Martelli McStay had rock star hair at only 4years old. His little brother Joseph, affectionately nicknamed Chubba- did as well. They both rocked a beanie like no other little dudes.
Chubba Family Photo
Gianni and Chubba were as inseparable in life as they were in death when they were recovered in a shallow grave in the Mojave Desert on November 11.
Their parents, Joseph, 40 and Summer McStay, 43, were located in a separate grave nearby.
A 3rd gravesite was found-but empty. A protected source not authorized to speak to the media has confirmed that at least one of the parent’s remains was bound by an electrical cord.
While formal DNA comparisons and autopsy protocols are pending, the manner of death in all four victims have been declared homicides.
Just about 50 yards off the intersection of Route 15 and Quarry Rd the family that San Diego County Sheriff’s Department (SDCSD) believed was “likely” voluntarily missing on their own and living in Mexico, was recovered in a 30 hour excavation process. An off road motorcycle enthusiast called the San Bernardino County Sheriff when he came across what he suspected was human remains.
Last April SDCSD forwarded the McStay case to the FBI based on their conclusions that the McStay’s had McGone to Mexico, following a lengthy complaint of their handling of the case by Patrick McStay, Joseph’s Father. Troy Dugal, previous lead investigator of the McStay case, appeared on several news and cable television programs over the last three years explaining there was “overwhelming” circumstantial evidence the family of four that was pictured crossing the border into Tijuana, Mexico the evening of February 8th, 2010 was in fact, the McStays.
Following the recovery, San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Office will maintain jurisdiction of the investigation.
Frenemies.. Frenethieves.. Friends.. Family or Cartel?
Who brutally murders innocent children and dumps them in a hole they dug in the desert?
Logically- someone who is very familiar with the area. Of course it is just as shocking and horrific to murder anyone, but it takes a specific brand of evil to murder a baby. Make that two.
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that either Joseph or Summer McStay had any ties to drugs, associates with ties to drugs or cartel, at any time. None.
Contrary to a top selling book on the case, “No Goodbyes” by Rick Baker, there has never been any evidence whatsoever that Summer McStay was some sort of closeted psychotic and homicidal type. The book goes on to malign members of both Joseph and Summer’s families and in some cases outright accuses same of extortion or stealing. Baker’s subsequent public theory is that Summer murdered Joseph and everyone should be looking for her and the boys in Mexico.
Not surprisingly , Baker has requested Amazon pull his book from available stock and has offered refunds to prior purchases. Popular online sleuth sites previously promoting “No Goodbye’s” have since either deleted it’s hundreds of posts endorsing Baker, or moved them to a member’s only private viewing area.
Albeit obtusely, Baker does touch on a troubling and serious abuse allegation concerning Joseph McStay’s oldest son from his first marriage, Jonah, and his step-father, Michael McFadden. He writes summer filed a complaint with Child Protective Services after she and Joseph recorded a conversation with Jonah and placed a copy of same with a private party for safekeeping. Blinkoncrime.com has been able to independently verify that is accurate, but that the investigation was not known to be completed until shortly after the McStay’s disappearance. Under California probate law, Jonah would be an heir to the McStay estate or as otherwise provisioned in the instance of an existing will.
Interviewed by Laura Ling for E! Investigation, Joseph McStay’s web administrator Dan Kavanaugh claims he was the first to become concerned. In Baker’s book, he refers to him as a suspect and details how he alleges he was funneling cash from McStay’s business account before he or anyone else knew the family was missing. Kavanaugh has an unrelated open criminal matter in San Diego County according to court records.
Chase Merritt- Joseph McStay’s business partner in his water fountain design and installation business was the last number ever dialed from his phone at 8:28PM on February 4th. Merritt joined McStay in a lunch meeting earlier that afternoon where they discussed a proposal for a very large car wash chain to feature custom fountains in each facility. According to family friend MacCargar McGyver, McStay was very excited about the opportunity. Merritt claims he passed a voluntary lie detector test, and that he was adamant that Joseph McStay would never have taken his family to Mexico and has always believed they met with foul play.
McGYver spent several days leading up to February 4th at the McStay home due to a painter Summer hired not returning to complete the job. McGyver introduced Summer and Joseph and by all accounts was a close confidant of the couple.
Patrick McStay, Joseph’s Father living in Texas has had some harsh words for the investigation into the disappearance of his son, daughter in law and grandsons.
“…most botched, inept investigation I’ve ever seen in my entire life.”
He also believes very strongly that the list of suspects with motive to kill his family members is very short. Three, to be exact.
He said the department didn’t even bother to contact him to tell him his son’s remains had been found.
“I got a message from someone [on Thursday] on Facebook telling me to go and read an article,” McStay said. “The minute I read the article, I knew it was him.”
“I have exhausted and have so much information on three possible persons of interest. All have a motive.”
The three individuals are not connected to each other, but all of them seem like likely candidates. Patrick says one of them seems to be a particularly likely suspect: he’s a wealthy man with a long rap sheet that includes charges of attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon and burglary. McStay says he, too, has a motive for killing his son.
Although Mr. McStay did not reference him by name, he may be referring to Michael James McFadden, who was arrested in July 1998 and charged with attempted murder and a litany of other felonies including great bodily harm to a child:
459/460(a) PC – Burglary 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Assault 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
273.5(a) PC – Domestic Violence 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
12022.7(d) PC – Infliction of great bodily injury on a child under the age of five … 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Assault 07/16/1999 02/25/2000 Dismissed
240 PC – Attempt to inflict violent force on another person. 07/16/1999 02/25/2000 Dismissed
245(a)(1) PC – Assault with a deadly weapon other than a firearm 07/16/1998 01/18/2000 Pled Guilty
12022.7(d) PC – Infliction of great bodily injury on a child under the age of five… 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Criminal Terrorist Threat 07/16/1999 01/18/2000 Pled Guilty
664-187 PC – Attempted Murder 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
You will note some of the charges are from 1998, others 1999 on the anniversary date, McFadden successfully negotiated a plea agreement and only pled to criminal terroristic threats and assault with a deadly weapon other than a firearm. Both felonies.
In the complaint he lodged against the detectives in SDCSD, Patrick McStay specifically references failure to interview key suspects he provided to LE directly.
Given the location of the bodies, it would seem that whoever is responsible would at least want investigators to think McFadden was involved. As a self-proclaimed mountain bike “racer”, McFadden has participated in several bike events in various locations all along the Route 15 Mojave corridor. SBCSO says they will be re-interviewing everyone in the case and have no suspects.
There have been no named suspects to date and the investigation is ongoing. Memorial or Funeral arrangements for the McStay’s have not yet been announced . LATE EDIT: The family and friends of the McStay family will gather at the grave site in Victorville, on Joseph’s McStay’s birthday.
To be continued in Part 2: Analysis of the last day of their lives points to involvement by someone they knew.
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Do you think last call to cm was a
Butt dial or a lure to get him out
Of house to share same fate as
Mcstays? Sorry for so many
Questions
Blink I am sorry I have posted so many things about the extreme weather conditions of thunderstorms / flash flood in Victorville between 2010 and 2012, but honestly I am just trying to make sense of all this stuff about the tracks.
I don’t see how you can get information about tire treads themselves after years of rain wind erosion. Okay, a rutted track, yes, but as far as the needed info to match the tire treads to a specific vehicle’s tires, and then match that vehicle to the driver of the vehicle, then prove that the person driving the vehicle is the person who murdered the McStays- I don’t see how this could be the coup de grace of circumstantial evidence.
Ms.Blink: Would you or can you offer some thoughts as to why the Trooper was backed up into the garage if it was not JM who did it? Thank you.
1. I wish I was 100% confident at this point it was definitely the trooper.
2. It is my opinion that the McStay’s would have known about the CCTV was across the street.
B
here are some other videos for reference that I made. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XipsQoEt65Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAZnlqvvtCk
Border crossing family
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHvZSAGhWgc
google earth street view from exit to end of paved road.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpkyWEqUT0w
I think I have seen your comments B I just don’t have anything to say to them since I disagree with some of the things you say. But what do I know? I am a lay person.
You are free to disagree respectfully- it is encouraged when trying to progress a case. Do you think questions about basic formulary data that you are offering as fact should be without question?
B
Bline – Oh..the measurments. she measured low point to low point in each track. It’s easy to explain if your site allowed to upload pictures as I have made some to explain just that. the low point in one track measured 65 inches to the other track’s low point. when measuring the width, you have to make sure you either measure from middle to middle or inside to outside or visa versa on the other side. She chose middle and used a tape
measure.
It does allow- if you want me to email you I would be glad to post from my photobucket with your credit.
B
sorry..should have been Blink
gray- not posting that.
B
So there were no signs of forced entry into the McStay home-however I don’t have much faith in LE (SDCS) that the McStay home and even car were processed thoroughly. They did not take this case seriously at all and slapped the ‘voluntarily missing’ sticker on it. Who knows what kind of evidence was in the home and car that they missed.
Patrick has stated on FB (sorry, don’t have the link as I saw it last month sometime) that he believes a scenario could have happened that Joey and or Summer could have been told that something had happened to Jonah and they left in a panic only to be ‘intercepted’ and killed. And I believe he also said that when Summer was on the phone the night before that there was a knock on the door and she didn’t know who it was.
I don’t think the killer would have left an electronic phone trail- i.e. if the perp had called Summer or Joey to say “Jonah got in a car accident and you need to come now” well most likely as they rush out of their house to go to Jonah they would have called or texted someone they knew to tell them that “so-and-so called and said Jonah was in a crash and we are heading there now”. I just don’t believe a killer would risk that. But I could definitely see someone coming to the house and knocking on the door and Summer or Joey answers and they make their way in and hold them at gunpoint. No struggle-just told to get into the car and do as they say. Their car moved very slowly out of their driveway.
The thing that also gets me is that JM is constantly on his phone and communication just stops all of a sudden at 5:47 pm. He never responded to the text from Summer’s phone at 5:47. Nothing- until the phone call to Chase Merritt at 8:28pm – a call which I don’t believe that Joseph McStay made himself.
Also, I still find it awfully convenient that soon after the FBI took over the case, DK’s cronies (who he sold JM’s EIP biz to) were busted and then the bodies were all of a sudden found after years. And for being skeletal remains, LE sure came to the conclusion rather quickly that it was the family- seriously, it seems like in other cases it takes WEEKS on end to identify skeletal remains. Yes, there is a so-called 911 call but if this was a ‘deal’ of some sort, it could have easily been set up as you know the media, public and us Blinkers would demand to hear it…like in the Holly Bobo case. I just find it bizarre or extremely lucky that some biker stumbled those. Then again, this whole case is bizarre and horrific at that.
Blink said:
But yes, I absolutely believe this family was murdered where they laid and were recovered November 11, 2013. God rest their souls.
If spent casings were found found with the remains that would show almost beyond a doubt your belief is correct.
Blink – are you aware pf or do you ‘believe’ there was important evidence found in the graves aside from one body was “bound with electrical cord” i.e casings/lead fragments etc?
Yes, I do.
B
SCOUT SAID: “The thing that also gets me is that JM is constantly on his phone and communication just stops all of a sudden at 5:47 pm. He never responded to the text from Summer’s phone at 5:47. Nothing- until the phone call to Chase Merritt at 8:28pm – a call which I don’t believe that Joseph McStay made himself.”
I have always found that strange too. If Joseph did not make that 8:28pm call, do you think it possible the perp had the foresight to set Chase up that way? Or do you think the phone might have dialed the last number JM dialed as it hit rocks or was thrown from a vehicle? I’m not sure a perp would be so careless as to just toss the phones haphazardly that way. Too big a chance they might be found. I’m curious what your thoughts are?
Blink: In response to those asking about what Patrick said will be happening in the coming weeks I’d like to offer an apology. I misread/misunderstood what he posted and am now posting his quote: “I have spoken with the detectives several times. They are working through the case information. They will be re-interviewing everyone as I understand it, and they may even have more individuals to speak with then in the beginning. Keep your eyes and eras open as there are several other things in the works”. I’m truly sorry for misquoting.
Hi Blink
Just wondering why my comments and links have stayed in moderation for so long.
These are links that show actual videos of extreme weather conditions and even a flash flood in Victorville which should definitely be taken into consideration when assessing the vehicle tracks, and can be useful to factor into when they were made. This, particularly in light of the fact that there is an assertion on these boards that the tracks were made in order to dump bodies. Unlike cow prints in a pasture, or dinosaur prints on a sandy beach, any ruts going downhill would be subject to exposure to rain that was dense enough to turn these tracks into, in essence, furrows that allowed water to see the lowest point.
There were 9 waves of thunderstorms in October 2010, a mere seven months after the tracks were made in a somewhat wet surface, as Jan 21 2010 was the wettest day of the year. There was a flash flood July 4th that resulted in waist deep ” puddles” in residential Victorville on July 4th 2011. IMO examination of those tire tracks would all of this, and the tracks themselves could have been altered depth wise, if in fact they had been there since Feb 4 2010.
Is there a problem with the post or the links?
Thanks in advance.
My appollies who- your research is sound. Something about those links hung up your post in spam. Looking into it.
B
Are you able to say if third
Grave was same size an shape
As other grave site and if
Tracks led up to it as well
The Isuzu specs for tires are p245/70pr 16.0 m+s tires (cars.com). This would leave a track of approx 9.5 inches wide. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tire_code
http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/11/20/mcstay-family-murdered-will-desert-graves-yield-their-killers/comment-page-21/#comment-2216286
Probable that the vehicle used had wider tires than the Isuzu. Maybe even a bigger vehicle.
Do you know if Joseph’s oldest child was at the house on Wed, Feb 3? If so, did he spend the night? Or was he scheduled that Friday to spend the weekend with his father? Thank you!
He was not and he was not scheduled to visit the following weekend.
B
Scout 12:26 talks about a scenario that PM posted wherein Joseph and famiy left the home because Jonah needed help. Supposedly, JM was to have Jonah that night beginning his weekend visitation. At the last moment, Jonah’s trip to see his Dad was canceled due to illness. Joey people say, made a trip to the drug store after returning from Rancho Cucamongo. The prescription was for a child. Summer did not like to give her two boys medication I guess unless she felt it was absolutely necessary. Suppose Joey was picking up Jonah’s medication, for a virus, asthma etc., the visitation was canceled, but Joey had the medication that Jonah needed. The family jumped into JM’s vehicle and headed towards Heather and Michael McFadden’s home. Strange that the McFadden’s are not among the people listed wondering where the McStays went and why they were no longer answering calls or arriving at their destinations.
LWT: Joey did not have weekend visitation and he did not pick up a script for Jonah.
B
Sorry if this was already discussed. I wanted to get an idea about the family leaving their home that night.
Terrific Blog. Keep up the good work Blink. Everyone is talking about you. In a good way.
Blink writes:
That said, I do not think the McStay’s were involved in anything having to do with tunnels and such.
———
My point was not that there was any connection between the tunnels and the mCstay disappearance,
I was referring to the large amount of work that has gone into the discovery and in some cases arrests of those connected with the vast tunnel network created to transport drugs and humans across ( well, underneath) the border between Mexico and San Ysidro and Otay Mesa.
In trying to comprehend WHY SDLE seemed so unable to objectively and ( with respect) completely handle the disappearance of the MCStay family, it occurs to me that SDLE was more focused on illegal drug trade and border issues than solving the McStay case.
I was clear who- great point.
B
MO
Good work on the tires for the Trooper. Your post is for the standard tire. There are probably several other tire choices that would fit the standard rim. Today, we have vehicles that can be fitted with multiple wheel configurations and a range of tires and tread patterns.
The whole point of looking a wheel tracks is to get an idea of the vehicle,trailer or other equipment that made them and to try and determine who in the suspect list would have access to such equipment.
Scout
Your last paragraph in the post above may have real significance regarding how the bodies were found. The FBI may have determined from the information gained from the cronies of DK where the bodies were located. They may just be working the case trying to tie all the loose ends prior to making arrests.
DeesMom says “If Joseph did not make that 8:28pm call, do you think it possible the perp had the foresight to set Chase up that way? Or do you think the phone might have dialed the last number JM dialed as it hit rocks or was thrown from a vehicle? I’m not sure a perp would be so careless as to just toss the phones haphazardly that way. Too big a chance they might be found. I’m curious what your thoughts are?”
___
I think the phone call was deliberate and not a butt dial or a call that was made when it hit the rocks- I would think a cell phone would break or malfunction before it dialed something if it hit a hard surface. Was the call to CM the ‘hitmen’ calling to let him know that JM was in their possession or the job was done-thus giving CM the alibi “oh I was watching a movie at home with my gf?” Did CM even try calling JM back? They spoke often, even later in the evening, so why did he and would he not call or text him back?
Who knows who made that call but IMO I just don’t think that JM made the call himself. And I don’t think it was an accidental call. If we had access to Summer’s cell phone records it would maybe make more sense as we could see when her cell phone activity stopped.
It’s strange to me how these (I say these as I think there was more than one) perps didn’t take the batteries out of the phones so they could not be tracked. It is also upsetting that no one seemed to organize a search to go and find those phones. If this were my sister (who I am not even that close with) I would still be out there searching to this day for those phones. Think about it. If it were your family. It’s tangible and at this point, it may mean nothing to the investigation, but it is a piece of them and a piece to the puzzle. Plus, knowing that no one in LE cared to search I would take it upon myself to do so.
This is from Patrick McStay’s FB page “Search for the McStay’s”
https://www.facebook.com/groups/search4mcstays/
Patrick McStay January 20 at 8:57am “I have spoken with the detectives several times. They are working through the case information. They will be re-interviewing everyone as I understand it, and they may even have more individuals to speak with then in the beginning. Keep your eyes and ears open as there are several other things in the works. Just remember it takes time now to go back and start all over from the beginning, but that is the only way to do it right. “
http://www.missingpersonsofamerica.com/2013_12_26_archive.html
This article suggests a silverado or a f250, or 350 as the vehicle used. I’m sure other vehicles can be included in the 67 inch wide tire track category but it does rule out the Isuzu.
Most seem to agree this was a premeditated crime done by someone close to this family. If true, what about the possibility that the killer knew about DK’s threats to JM, issues with MMc about CPS and is threat to shut SM up, and also knew about JM’s trip that day to CM. Took advantage of this knowledge and cleverly injected it ALL into the crime to throw LE off!
mo
The piece in your link describes a great many vehicle track widths that are based on standard equipment from the mfg.
There are many after market firms that make equipment for pickups and other vehicles for the purpose of installing over-sized wheels and tires. This type of equipment has been available since the early 1970′s. The track width of the vehicle is extended to clear the fenders along with new shocks and struts to raise the height of the vehicle body for clearance.
My 26 year old grandson has configured every truck he has owned in that manner. Those tires are wide with deep tread patterns. Tires of that type have a large surface area and are often used for the sport of “mudding” where a course is developed with soft clay soil and water. The object is to drive through the course without becoming stuck with the best time.
There are sand dunes in California near the border of Arizona that the same set-up would work for climbing a dune at a steep angle.
Criminals always make mistakes. There is always a mistake even in a well executed plan. A plan involving the murder of two parents and two toddlers in front of their parents has no way of being executed to perfection. There are too many volatile variables. Not possible for one perp to do without a myriad of errors. What strikes me as odd is the obscure area they were taken to. Its just not convenient. To lure jm out there separately is not logical – as he would have no reason to meet out there. To have his wife drive out there is not logical either. If jm and. Sm drove out together there would be tracks of dust and dirt on the trooper they could identify from that area. So they must have driven to the border themselves as a meeting point, gotten in another vehicle and been driven off. Yet watching a family of 4 taken against their will in a crowded parking lot will garner attention. They must have freely gotten into another vehicle. Not sure how you can. Tie up.adults without notice and even then, if the parents knew they were in trouble why one of them wouldnt have managed to scream and make panic striken faces to zll the cars that they had to pass along the way to the remote location. How did jms truck get home?
If you mean the Trooper it was found in San Ysidro, not home.
B
Dont they have 2 vehicles? One for sm to run around in and one for jm to run around in?
Yes.?
B
What are your thoughts on Rick Backer’s upcoming interview? He has said on his blog rickgbaker.blogspot.com that his ‘final interview will be uncensored…hope that lawyers will be listening as I intend to pull out all the stops…media will stop wanting to talk to me. Guaranteed.’ Do you think he knows anything or do you think he is after more controversy? Thanks in advance. Mariam
link please.
B
Apologies…Baker not Backer!!
wrt Gray Hughes’ video of a possible route of the McStay vehicle out to the area covered by the two cell towers in Bonsall. First, a great job! Thank you so much.
Just a mention that an alternative route from the McStay home to area near the bridges should include leaving Avocado Vista Lane and turning left on Dulin. Proceeding along Dulin and going under the I-15 and then turning LEFT onto Old Hwy 395. At this point they’re heading south for a couple of miles. Then turning right on to West Lilac Road, puts them heading westward through an area of very affluent homes and ranches, past Rawhide Ranch, past an elementary school, Past Bobritt Road and then into a more densely habituated area near a golf course. W. Lilac Road then runs into another street and with a short right, they right on top of the new Bonsall bridge.
Mariam Ferraiolo says:
February 2, 2014 at 6:01 pm
What are your thoughts on Rick Backer’s upcoming interview? He has said on his blog rickgbaker.blogspot.com that his ‘final interview will be uncensored…hope that lawyers will be listening as I intend to pull out all the stops…media will stop wanting to talk to me. Guaranteed.’ Do you think he knows anything or do you think he is after more controversy? Thanks in advance. Mariam
******************
link please.
B
Understood, but then you can’t ask me to respond to something that has not been quoted, right?
B
******************
Blink, this information came to me, and probably Miriam, via an email from Baker himself. I don’t think we can link it.
Thank you friend, I know
Nobody else will touch him for a reason.
B
From: Justice For The McStay Family
To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sun, Feb 2, 2014 3:16 pm
Subject: The Vanishing McStays
The Vanishing McStays
Final Interview Will Be ‘Uncensored’
Posted: 01 Feb 2014 03:59 PM PST
My final interview on the McStay case on Thursday night will be uncensored on my part.
I hope that the lawyers for Kristin Robinson, (FBI, San Diego) Mike McStay, Michael McFadden, Dan Kavanaugh, Chase Merritt, Debbie Erp, Jason Parmalee and a few others will be listening, as I intend to pull out all stops.
I am going to say what I have wanted to say for three years. Why not? Are they going to sue me? Ha.
Thursday night, Trish’s True Crime Radio on iHeart Radio at 8pm February 6.
And then I am done. People will stop buying the book and media will stop wanting to talk to me. Guaranteed.
http://rickgbaker.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/final-interview-will-be-uncensored.html?m=1
Oy.
Thank you for posting the reference Mariam.
B
Blink, respectfully, I wonder what is that you are thanking your friend daisymae for, and who it is that, for a reason, no one will touch?
Dauphine- I allow private posts.
B
What do you think about Vick J. the ex live-in boyfriend of Summer. It’s been said that Summer was dating Joey and became pregnant. She didn’t tell Vick about Joey until sometime into the pregnancy so I’m assuming Vick thought the child was his. After SM moved out to live with Joey, Vick followed them to San Clemente. It’s believed Summer and Vick spoke on the phone and that Vick may have even worked at the McStay home. He wrote what could be described as love letters to her telling her that they were soul mates and that he would always love her. It’s also claimed that he said that he wanted Summer to have his children. Do you think it’s possible Vick, who is known to be unstable, could have taken the lives of this family? There’s not that much evidence out there, at least that we have been given to indicate anyone in particular, but for me Vick stands out as having motive. Rejection, resentment and rage.
From a confirmed source:
First, Vic didn’t move to San Clemente within 2 miles of Joey and Summer until after he was gone for almost 5 years. He was in and out in the summer of 2004 and then and the house was bought out of foreclosure in 2005. Summer rented the house to the prospective future buyers then. There was no known contact with Summer form Vic until his email on Dec. 23, 2009. Vic did not follow them to San Clemente as he didn’t reappear until 2009. Also the post said that Vic called Summer and that has never been said and certainly has never been known to have happened.
B
yes Whodunnit they would. The graves weren’t in the wash where all the water is funneled to. There was no flash flooding up where the graves were, but as all the washes accumulated and rush down stream the cause flash flooding.
Gray- respectfully, second request- please snip the post you are responding to in your reply.
I continue to be flummoxed that you offer opinions you are not qualified to make. How can you possibly state what flooded and the water run off pattern or distribution for an extended time period?
Also, I note that you originally stated the graves were in a wash- which I did not agree with.
There are several posts of mine where I addressed yours with follow up questions. Can you review those and respond or do you need me to repost?
B
Well, again respectfully, Blink, daisymae’s post may have been private, but your response wasn’t. So, we see you responding to something invisible. Speaking for myself only, I can’t help but be curious.
It appears Dan Kavanaugh may have told/demanded/asked cbs8 to remove the video of him from their article. Did anyone per chance dl it from the site, I would love to view this creeps statement again as he stood like a deer in the headlights in his doorway.
http://www.cbs8.com/story/24277118/mcstay-murder-mystery-who-is-dan-kavanaugh
If I may, Blink, I’d like to respond to Dauphine. I simply privately mentioned that Rick Baker was to be on WS’s radio show this week. That’s all … no big secret here.
Dauphine says:
Well, again respectfully, Blink, daisymae’s post may have been private, but your response wasn’t. So, we see you responding to something invisible. Speaking for myself only, I can’t help but be curious.
With respect Dauphine, if it is obvious (and stated) a reply from site owner is to a private post, I find myself able to curb my curiosity, certainly not grizzle about something that is not meant for my eyes.
gary hughes writes:
yes Whodunnit they would.
——-
Please scroll back and see the video footage of weather conditions I posted earlier. Due to some problems with uploading the links, the posts were in moderation for so long that they do not appear on this current page.
To repeat:
The highest amount of rainfall for the year was Jan 21 2010.Within seven months of the alleged trie tracks being made, there were 9 waves of severe thereunder storms in Victorville in (OCT 2010). In Decemeber 2010, the rain was nearly as much as it had been in jan 2010. The following July 2011 there was flash flooding that was severe enough to cause waist deep rivers on residential streets.
If those trie tracks are directly linked to depositing the bodies in Feb of 2010, they would show evidence of the weather conditions from the time they were made until to the time of discovery.
These tracks are sloping downhill, which is a different scenario from cattle prints made in a pasture or dinosaur prints originally formed in sand thousands of years ago, the two examples you gave as proof that tire treads could harden and be preserved.
The thrust of my point is this:
The presence of tire tracks is relevant only to the extent that those tracks can be proven to have existed on the day the bodies were deposited, and used to identify a specific vehicle. This would require, among ityher forensics, an impression of the treads on those tires that left a track, an analysis of the surface in which the impressions were made, a linkage of the vehicle to a driver/owner of the vehicle, and a linkage of the driver/owner with a motive , and a link of motive and execution of the McStays.
But as it is, all that you have is measurement of the tire tracks and spacing between them and a theory of how those tracks represent that the murderers dumped the bodies from the vehicle.In the Casey Anthony case, the prosecution had a theory that, because CA borrowed a shovel from her neighbor, she used that shovel to bury the body of her daughter. I am sure you know how that went over.
I posted a link to a satellite image of Victorville on FEb 2, 2010, in response to your info that you could not find satellite images between 2009 and 2013. Can you please take a look at that link and see what it tells you? I don’t know the exact location of the graves, but it appears you do, I hope that this link will reveal something .
Gray Hughes, I am not trying to discount he time you are putting into this, I am offering the links in order for you to access and further hone your theory. Please scroll back to ” Older posts” to see all the links I posted.
Gray Hughes writes : Jan 28, 6:51 p.m.
I think on a previous day the graves were dug without the bodies. Then a couple of days later when they felt the coast was clear drove out to the site and dumped the bodies.
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Gray
here is a link to satellite images of Victorville, created on FEB 2, 2010.
https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?source=s_q&geocode=&mrt=all&ie=UTF8&hq=VICTOR+VALLEY,&hnear=California&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=100921335095989509438.00047ea7a118bc4135dcc
Please take a look at the terrain you have identified as the tire track and gravesite area.
TIA.
42/whodunnit: I believe that when you zoom in on the linked aerial to the grave sites, the date of that imagery is 3/22/2013, not 2/2/2010
It may be that google uses different images from different dates at different resolution levels… So, as you zoom in, you leave one image and enter another image made on a different date….
Bip is correct.
B
daisymae says:
February 3, 2014 at 4:05 am
If I may, Blink, I’d like to respond to Dauphine. I simply privately mentioned that Rick Baker was to be on WS’s radio show this week. That’s all … no big secret here.
daisymae says:
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Thank you for your kind response, daisymae. I assumed (and certainly am not surprised) that Rick Baker was the subject matter.
Bystander says:
February 3, 2014 at 4:41 am
With respect Dauphine, if it is obvious (and stated) a reply from site owner is to a private post, I find myself able to curb my curiosity, certainly not grizzle about something that is not meant for my eyes.
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With respect, Bystander, if a reply is to a private post, to me it follows that said reply should be private also. I would think that would be obvious. Apparently not to you. But please continue to pat yourself on the back for being able to curb your curiosity.
Aside from any other consideration, this is Blink’s site, we are guests, and she can do whatever she likes, no matter what either one of us thinks.
Dauphine- I do not have that capability nor do I want it in this venue. Let’s all be done with the snark please and discuss the case respectfully with one another please.
B
First of all thank you very much Gray for all the excellent information. Second, my friend just pointed out to the huge white truck…is this the truck…???
wrt: whodunnit says: February 3, 2014 at 3:01 pm
Hi Who,
The two sets of tracks are there. Could the graves have been dug prior to Feb. 2, 2010?
Sierra writes:
wrt: whodunnit says: February 3, 2014 at 3:01 pm
Hi Who,
The two sets of tracks are there. Could the graves have been dug prior to Feb. 2, 2010?
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Thanks for taking a look into this.
I posted the link to the satellite view of Victorville on Feb 2, 2010, because Gary Hughes is theorizing that the tracks were made by a vehicle when that vehicle was used to dump the bodies in the grave sites.
.
I am not discounting the possibility that a vehicle was involved in some connection with the grave sites, all I am doing is providing a link that shows that a vehicle’s tracks were present at the grave site at least two days before the McStay family disappeared.
This refutes a theory that the tracks were made by a vehicle in the process of dumping the bodies.
Intriguing, right?
I apologize. I worded my question so badly. What I meant to ask was this. My friend directed me to a google image in the area near the graves that says it was an image from 2/2/2010 and it shows what appears to be or could be interpreted as a huge white truck. I was so taken by surprise that I thought the image came from the link above from Gray. But I have had no luck with any images on the Gray link. I have not been able to locate the image that my friend sent me although I have it on my Iphone. He said he thinks pics are not allowed here..so I don’t know…I simply thought the image of what appears to be a white truck on an isolated area near the graves was what I was going to find when my friend sent it. I assumed incorrectly that is where he got it. Thanks and Iam very sorry. Please delete my previous post.