McStay Family Murdered: Will Desert Graves Yield Their Killers?
Deserted in the Desert
Gianni Family Photo
Gianni Martelli McStay had rock star hair at only 4years old. His little brother Joseph, affectionately nicknamed Chubba- did as well. They both rocked a beanie like no other little dudes.
Chubba Family Photo
Gianni and Chubba were as inseparable in life as they were in death when they were recovered in a shallow grave in the Mojave Desert on November 11.
Their parents, Joseph, 40 and Summer McStay, 43, were located in a separate grave nearby.
A 3rd gravesite was found-but empty. A protected source not authorized to speak to the media has confirmed that at least one of the parent’s remains was bound by an electrical cord.
While formal DNA comparisons and autopsy protocols are pending, the manner of death in all four victims have been declared homicides.
Just about 50 yards off the intersection of Route 15 and Quarry Rd the family that San Diego County Sheriff’s Department (SDCSD) believed was “likely” voluntarily missing on their own and living in Mexico, was recovered in a 30 hour excavation process. An off road motorcycle enthusiast called the San Bernardino County Sheriff when he came across what he suspected was human remains.
Last April SDCSD forwarded the McStay case to the FBI based on their conclusions that the McStay’s had McGone to Mexico, following a lengthy complaint of their handling of the case by Patrick McStay, Joseph’s Father. Troy Dugal, previous lead investigator of the McStay case, appeared on several news and cable television programs over the last three years explaining there was “overwhelming” circumstantial evidence the family of four that was pictured crossing the border into Tijuana, Mexico the evening of February 8th, 2010 was in fact, the McStays.
Following the recovery, San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Office will maintain jurisdiction of the investigation.
Frenemies.. Frenethieves.. Friends.. Family or Cartel?
Who brutally murders innocent children and dumps them in a hole they dug in the desert?
Logically- someone who is very familiar with the area. Of course it is just as shocking and horrific to murder anyone, but it takes a specific brand of evil to murder a baby. Make that two.
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that either Joseph or Summer McStay had any ties to drugs, associates with ties to drugs or cartel, at any time. None.
Contrary to a top selling book on the case, “No Goodbyes” by Rick Baker, there has never been any evidence whatsoever that Summer McStay was some sort of closeted psychotic and homicidal type. The book goes on to malign members of both Joseph and Summer’s families and in some cases outright accuses same of extortion or stealing. Baker’s subsequent public theory is that Summer murdered Joseph and everyone should be looking for her and the boys in Mexico.
Not surprisingly , Baker has requested Amazon pull his book from available stock and has offered refunds to prior purchases. Popular online sleuth sites previously promoting “No Goodbye’s” have since either deleted it’s hundreds of posts endorsing Baker, or moved them to a member’s only private viewing area.
Albeit obtusely, Baker does touch on a troubling and serious abuse allegation concerning Joseph McStay’s oldest son from his first marriage, Jonah, and his step-father, Michael McFadden. He writes summer filed a complaint with Child Protective Services after she and Joseph recorded a conversation with Jonah and placed a copy of same with a private party for safekeeping. Blinkoncrime.com has been able to independently verify that is accurate, but that the investigation was not known to be completed until shortly after the McStay’s disappearance. Under California probate law, Jonah would be an heir to the McStay estate or as otherwise provisioned in the instance of an existing will.
Interviewed by Laura Ling for E! Investigation, Joseph McStay’s web administrator Dan Kavanaugh claims he was the first to become concerned. In Baker’s book, he refers to him as a suspect and details how he alleges he was funneling cash from McStay’s business account before he or anyone else knew the family was missing. Kavanaugh has an unrelated open criminal matter in San Diego County according to court records.
Chase Merritt- Joseph McStay’s business partner in his water fountain design and installation business was the last number ever dialed from his phone at 8:28PM on February 4th. Merritt joined McStay in a lunch meeting earlier that afternoon where they discussed a proposal for a very large car wash chain to feature custom fountains in each facility. According to family friend MacCargar McGyver, McStay was very excited about the opportunity. Merritt claims he passed a voluntary lie detector test, and that he was adamant that Joseph McStay would never have taken his family to Mexico and has always believed they met with foul play.
McGYver spent several days leading up to February 4th at the McStay home due to a painter Summer hired not returning to complete the job. McGyver introduced Summer and Joseph and by all accounts was a close confidant of the couple.
Patrick McStay, Joseph’s Father living in Texas has had some harsh words for the investigation into the disappearance of his son, daughter in law and grandsons.
“…most botched, inept investigation I’ve ever seen in my entire life.”
He also believes very strongly that the list of suspects with motive to kill his family members is very short. Three, to be exact.
He said the department didn’t even bother to contact him to tell him his son’s remains had been found.
“I got a message from someone [on Thursday] on Facebook telling me to go and read an article,” McStay said. “The minute I read the article, I knew it was him.”
“I have exhausted and have so much information on three possible persons of interest. All have a motive.”
The three individuals are not connected to each other, but all of them seem like likely candidates. Patrick says one of them seems to be a particularly likely suspect: he’s a wealthy man with a long rap sheet that includes charges of attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon and burglary. McStay says he, too, has a motive for killing his son.
Although Mr. McStay did not reference him by name, he may be referring to Michael James McFadden, who was arrested in July 1998 and charged with attempted murder and a litany of other felonies including great bodily harm to a child:
459/460(a) PC – Burglary 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Assault 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
273.5(a) PC – Domestic Violence 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
12022.7(d) PC – Infliction of great bodily injury on a child under the age of five … 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Assault 07/16/1999 02/25/2000 Dismissed
240 PC – Attempt to inflict violent force on another person. 07/16/1999 02/25/2000 Dismissed
245(a)(1) PC – Assault with a deadly weapon other than a firearm 07/16/1998 01/18/2000 Pled Guilty
12022.7(d) PC – Infliction of great bodily injury on a child under the age of five… 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Criminal Terrorist Threat 07/16/1999 01/18/2000 Pled Guilty
664-187 PC – Attempted Murder 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
You will note some of the charges are from 1998, others 1999 on the anniversary date, McFadden successfully negotiated a plea agreement and only pled to criminal terroristic threats and assault with a deadly weapon other than a firearm. Both felonies.
In the complaint he lodged against the detectives in SDCSD, Patrick McStay specifically references failure to interview key suspects he provided to LE directly.
Given the location of the bodies, it would seem that whoever is responsible would at least want investigators to think McFadden was involved. As a self-proclaimed mountain bike “racer”, McFadden has participated in several bike events in various locations all along the Route 15 Mojave corridor. SBCSO says they will be re-interviewing everyone in the case and have no suspects.
There have been no named suspects to date and the investigation is ongoing. Memorial or Funeral arrangements for the McStay’s have not yet been announced . LATE EDIT: The family and friends of the McStay family will gather at the grave site in Victorville, on Joseph’s McStay’s birthday.
To be continued in Part 2: Analysis of the last day of their lives points to involvement by someone they knew.
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Hi Blink, do you know what the timeframe is for releasing Part 2? I am eagerly anticipating it.
Lyndsay- I can say it has been done for several days, is in review and fact check status and unless there is an investigative reason it would need to be delayed, I am hoping for weeks end. Way more fluid than I am comfortable with at present.
B
@Blink. wrt “I will say that with the influx (not MacCarger)of renovative folks with access to the home, combined with high craigslist and real estate activity they start out at moderate risk on my grid already.” That made sense to me, including the “lost” painter MacCarger was filling in for. Fallbrook seemed to have much questionable criminal activity at the time, including weapons. Shooting kids predicts a hardened criminal as a psychotic alone would be too disorganized.
1. That painter is a priority, imo.
2. It has not been determined the kids were shot, so the possible profile of the offender cannot be an assumption for profiling at this point.
That said, it is my belief this family was gunned down in the graves they ended up in, complete with spent projectiles.
B
like the Kyron case, sometimes it seems people want to settle
old family wounds & scores without thinking, say,
of the guy who installed the countertops.
blink writes:
Not to indicate SDSD was restricted per se- they were restricted by their theory, imo.
——-
as soon as SDSD declared the McStays were “voluntarily missing”, the approach to the case was completely altered. I am still not clear who exactly made the decision that this was a voluntary missing situation, but obviously it came to down to a specific group of human beings making that decision based on their interpretation of the evidence before them. Did they follow all the “rules” in coming to that conclusion?
Below is a link to the California Guidelines and Curriculum for Missing persons cases.
For those of you interested, and if you have the time for a fairly lengthy piece- this is a manual , if you will, addressing how LE is meant to approach a filing of a missing person
http://lib.post.ca.gov/Publications/missing.pdf
What jumps out to me is that even if it was declared a voluntary departure- two of the people involved were well under the age of 18, which to me would have prompted extremely in depth scrutiny of anyone remotely involved with the kids.
But what I still don’t get is the border crossing-which seemed to be the hinge piece for declaring the McStays alive and leaving the states on their own volition
Isn’t every person who crosses a border recorded in some way? Wouldn’t it have been easy to link up the time of the video allegedly showing the McStays walking across the border with documentation of two adults and two children? And if they could not get that documentation, how could they regard the video with any validity whatsoever?
——
I look at the photos of the MCStay family. Was there something prejudicial going on?Were they regarded differently because they didn’t present themselves all clean cut , starched and buttoned up with fresh haircuts? Were they marginalized because they left a messy house behind and were not pillars of the community they lived in? Does a victim become less of a victim in proportion to their variance from the norm?
These are philosophical questions, not intended to flame up resentment towards LE in this case. The point isn’t who did what wrong in the investigation so far, it is about moving forward and finding the answers. I am just bringing these things up for the sake of the learning curve , hoping that the lessons learned from this case can help in the future.
It would be so wonderful if Michael McFadden could help solve the mystery of what happened to his step son’s father and brothers. MM is the only father Jpey has now. MM has a great opportunity to role model handling deep emotion and anger, the resolution of conflict and interaction with others toward a greater good, towards healing. Prayers all around.
whodunnit says:q
November 28, 2013 at 1:19 pm
Thanks, whodunnit, for the link. Such a sad case. I am still wondering about the Craigslist contacts, but IDK. Why would anyone using Craigslist to lure someone want to kill a whole family?
I lived in California for five years, and had friends with desert “toys” that we would take out to that area when we had a rare weekend off. The area is so desolate, and dark and cold after nightfall.
I find myself wondering if Joey made it home that evening. Could Summer have been lured out by someone using the guise that Joey needed help? The crime itself sounds like an execution. But, who would do that, especially to 2 precious little boys?
WHY the boys?
The only way I see the craigslist connection as potentially relevant is it would be a good way for an unknown person to establish introduction and/or create an entrance into the home or lure someone into theirs- in that scenario, it seems like the family in it’s entirety would had to have been the target.
This was a definite execution and I honestly have very little hope once it is known- that the motive is going to make sense to anyone but the persons responsible.
B
oops
In the last oaragragh of my post Dec 30 @12:49 a.m., I meant to say ” MM is the only father JONAH has now”. I inadvertently wrote Joey instead. Sentiments remain the same.
Yes you can contact me at that email address, thank you
Thank you for allowing me to confirm you as a friend of Patrick McStay.
B
thanks friendLY….glad I could make you LOL. It was just a bad day, for me, in the moderation world. Your patience is to be commended. I believe you had 50 billion comments of mine in mod. God bless your heart, lassie.
Peace and love <3
Victimology profiling is not something I am familiar with, so I’ve been doing some cursory reading up online. I find the topic intriguing but I was also immediately struck by the sense that it seems to be closely tied to the notion of blaming the victim, albeit in a more indirect and less exclusive sense. I know this cannot be correct but can you suggest a perspective or idea that might correct that understanding? Not sure this comment/question adequately gets my point across but I thought it was worth a try. Also, is there a general age where this becomes appropriate in terms of the victim? Can child victims be profiled? In terms of the McStays, would a profile be compiled of the family as a unit or would it be individuals?
TR in CA-
That is an excellent question. I am going to apologize a bit for the length of my response and the lack of case citations that would be excellent references but my training is proprietary and credentialed with good reason. I need to be general.
I am trained according to and through the FBI protocol in all the component areas for compilation and consideration of a victimology report.
Victimology has nothing to do whatsoever with blaming a victim, although I could see how a layperson or beginning researcher using standard googles or similar engines might construe that.
In short, and without exception, victimology is the second most important investigative element only to a crime scene. When there is no crime scene, which there was NOT in this case we know of until November 11th- it should have been the number one priority of investigators.
It has multiple components in terms of assessments that are gleaned from a behavioral perspective by those closest to the victim or suspected victim and used in conjunctions for evaluation with verifiable factual evidence in the case.
Ultimately, it is designed to focus the investigative strategy based on the “model” that is built by the data. It is HOPEFUL to present a framework to depict the relationship between the offender (s) and the victims.
My assessment tool is about 44 questions and includes a rating scale of opinions by the person being interviewed about the possible or known victim. This is a highly variable process based on the type of investigation and the facts of the case.
I am able to establish a baseline of what is called “potential for risk”, and some other patterns to look for and in the instance of an existing crime scene, that data is then filtered.
If I am retained for a crime scene analysis- that has the potential for victimology study I specifically request no outside information about the victim or any potential suspects until I finish that portion. I don’t care what any investigator says- suspect data clouds an initial scene analysis and there are hundreds of those examples in case study. The victim/offender interaction is stand alone information if available.
Once that is developed, I am able to apply assumptions based on evidence if appropriate and I can see corroboration or conflicts in information.
That information has now allowed me to identify potential for risk and support thereof regardless of whether the victim is a homeless person, business owner, prostitute or somewhere in between so as an analyst that never has anything to do with “blame” of a victim. Admittedly, if the vp (vic profile) is mostly unpopulated so to speak- for the most part it means there is no link to the offender and victim and without a crime scene or link, we go to empirical data if warranted.
I called it investigative craps (the gambling kind)in a recent peer review.
Without the info from everyday life, business associates, family, past behaviors, current lifestyle intel and the like, a victimology study is nothing more than a hopeful best guess.
With children this young, their profile is almost exclusively tied to the caregivers and their environment/lifestyle/educators/child care, etc. In other words, unless we have a background with a child leaving the home without knowledge, spending excessive time away from the home, behavioral cues or developmental challenges of some kind, we find a very high percentage of association to the parent or caregivers assessed risk.
Again, this is not the forum for me to encompass such specificity, I am simply trying to give a snap shot into what can and likely in this case will affect it’s outcome.
When we add the factor of cold case, I already feel more comfortable with SBCSO comments that they were “starting from the beginning”. Much of everything I just mentioned is tainted by almost 4 years of extraneous opinion, named potential suspects and of course media influence.
I hope I answered your question in a way that adds to your knowledge base as you requested. Rose asked if I was going to publish my profiles, and unfortunately as I already stated one really cannot develop them without the proper case data and access and in an open investigation on a case I have covered, it would be inappropriate.
B
The location of the gravesite used to be a functioning Motocross parkway in the early 2000′s, and then was shut down, I believe. Maybe the killer(s) knew this? It was good that the lone motocross rider ventured there and then reported it. Maybe the killer(s) are tied to offroading, as an interest or competitively or lived in that area in the early 2000′s. I’m sure LE are looking at all angles. Peace to the friends and family who really knew and cared about them.
wrt “That said, it is my belief this family was gunned down in the graves they ended up in, complete with spent projectiles. B” I assumed that’s why graves were dug in advance. Keeps blood off the clothes & car as well.
Either someone coached the killer or he was experienced.
@whodunit. imo the “voluntary missing” categorization is so flimsy and irrational that imo the responsible decisionmaker, whoever that was, needs to be scrubbed for being on the take.
Wrt to prejudicial appearance, community members’ pics in Fallsbrook community newspaper over time
don’t present as a “professionals” appearing neighborhood. Imo they fit right in. They maybe would’ve fit in
more safely if they had been running guns & drugs.
If I have not told you lately- I am in awe at your ability to distill chit better than Joe Kennedy. It would lack integrity for me to commit to “adding it in” with my backjam as it is, but for you, I will put it on the review list for 2014.
B
Patrick McStay was contacted in early 2013. A dead male body had been found in Temecula around Thanksgiving in 2012, and LE was making an effort to identify it. As it turned out, it was not Joseph MCStay
This info as well as other info about the perspective on the McStay case, was published in FEb 2013, by the Sand Diego Union Tribune.
(Of note, in this piece, Lt. Glenn Giannantonio states that there was nothing indicating criminal activity, and maintains the McStays were voluntarily missing.)
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/feb/02/mcstay-missing-fallbrook-family/all/?print
I am wondering if the time of death of that body found in Temecula correlates with the time of death for the McStay family. Temecula is about an 1 1/2 drive from Victorville. It accessed by taking the 1-15 N, the same freeway beside which the McStay bodies were found . My curiosity is prompted by the presence of the third unfilled grave in Victorville.
Temecula was an original desirable home location for the McStays in 2009.
B
Just almost makes sence that Summer and Joey were lured out of the home. The home was locked up and phones were taken and I’m assuming her purse. If they were forced out, I believe no phones would’ve been taken or the home locked .. Unless this person or persons returned to the home. Idk.. Just some thoughts. Just waiting for some type of information on this case. Truly heartbreaking
Ragdoll thanks and Happy Holidays to you too.
I just finished reading the book no I didnt buy it , library lent it to me
Not sure where the authors years long work went- as to me it was a very thin read in both ways-
Very little substance -much on internet theories- its almost as if the writer just went to WS and insession and copied all info there and tried to tie into a book- which is strange because the author claims to have interviewed family and friends but so little inside info is mentioned and when it is the info isnt always sourced…
Not sure what is rumor and what is fact…
Eagerly awaiting Blinks Part 2 which Im sure will clear up some questions while giving rise to others
AJMO Peace
Will it be made public as to how each family member was killed? Also, will we know exactly what was found in each grave? Is it too late to revisit the vehicle and search for additional evidence?
Rose
Thanks for reminding us of the “painter who disappeared”. This fits with my No.1 possibility in the list of possible perps.
LE should have investigated all persons who had worked on the home or were interacting with the family in any way. I doubt that was done.
From experience, I know that in a new subdivision development or one that is slowly developing, there will be contractor personnel who themselves do not perform a crime, but get a “finders fee” for pointing their criminal buddies to a home under construction or being upgraded. This could be the case in this crime.
Prior to the development of “water based” paint in the 1950′s, painters were using oils and thinners that were volatile. This put a lot of fumes in the air and they often became intoxicated when working. In homes where there is a large amount of wood paneling,cabinets and trim work that is to be finished with oil based stains and clear finish material, this can still happen. There are people who do nothing but this type of work. The stains and final finish are often sprayed and that puts a large amount of vapor in the air.
Did the original painter get fired for poor or incomplete work by not showing up because they were too intoxicated to know what day it was? If this happened, the painter could have demanded the payment for work that he didn’t do and when he didn’t succeed, seek revenge on the whole family.
If the family were looking for people on Craig’s list to do the remodeling that to me is the wrong one. Angie’s list is the one to use for services work.
Just thinking out some possibilities. No facts to back this up.
Any thoughts on Israel Keyes? Could he have been the painter? Or a Craigslist seller?
Honestly this crime was so heinous I considered that possibility immediately. After conferring with my contacts within the FBI, it was determined it was not possible.
B
ATG, Summer was looking to buy furniture and stainless steel appliances from Craigslist.
I could be wrong, but I thought only one painter was helping Summer and Joey with the painting. Does anyone have links to the other painter? I recall reading that Summer was doing some of the painting herself.
McGyver was painting the home due to the original painter Summer hired did not return from a business trip. Obviously I cant verify that is the true reason from Summer’s perspective but we do not know how he was hired. I have verified that he was allegedly there the afternoon of the searches about children traveling to Mexico- which is why he is a priority for me.
B
I am now questioning the source of how the painter knew about the trip to Mexico. Could this be the source of the misdirection to the original LE agency?
It is going to be hard to solve this crime unless some good clues were obtained during the recovery at the grave site.
I suppose that McGyver being on-site at the beginning of the search could be taken one of two ways. He could have been trying to help or he could have been there to find out the progress and to point LE in a direction that would lead away from himself.
Any criminal that could control two adults and two children is going to be very experienced or have some help. A complete background search on McGyver would clear this possibility.
Not sure what you mean by McGyver there at the beginning of the search, ATG?
B
Here is an article published in the UK a couple of weeks ago-
This article is going for yet another angle- that the mCStays were barely able to pay rent on the apartment they had, so where did the money come from to buy the house they were living in when they disappeared.
There are photos with the article that I have not seen elsewhere on line, including very clear shot of one of the graves, the apartment they were supposedly unable to pay rent on. It contains the same basic info we all have, but also references more specifically the financial aspects of the McStay’s lives.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2508766/Mystery-McStay-money-Family-dead-barely-afford-rent-despite-100k-bank.html
GraceintheHills says:
December 2, 2013 at 11:23 am
ATG, Summer was looking to buy furniture and stainless steel appliances from Craigslist.
I could be wrong, but I thought only one painter was helping Summer and Joey with the painting. Does anyone have links to the other painter? I recall reading that Summer was doing some of the painting herself.
Blink says, “McGyver was painting the home due to the original painter Summer hired did not return from a business trip. Obviously I cant verify that is the true reason from Summer’s perspective but we do not know how he was hired. I have verified that he was allegedly there the afternoon of the searches about children traveling to Mexico- which is why he is a priority for me.
B
~~~~~~~~
Blink, I think ATG and I are both not sure what you are saying. You say that you have verified that this man was “allegedly” there at the time of the searches. Are you saying he was there when Summer was searching the internet to check into whether kids needed passports to enter Mexico? If so, was he standing there and watching her search? Or are you indicating other searches? Or, are you going by his alleged plans to be there to paint that evening? Again, if so, unless he is standing right behind her, how would ne know? Thanks!!
@ATG. I thot Blink meant the original
painter who had not returned timely.
ATG- I am sure I am late for the response- it’s 5:18 est. But I think the painter being discussed is the original person that went MIA. McGyver was helping after the fact bc the first one left without completing the job. And now we learn the first one was in the home the day the inquiry was made about what children required to travel to Mexico. Good info.
I think it makes more sense that Summer did the search about Mexico if it’s true that she also purchased Rosetta Stone Spanish lessons for adults and for children from somebody on Craigslist around the same time frame.
Also, is it true that she had a fake birth certificate? If this is true she may have been an illegal alien. Virginia Lisa does not sound like a Spanish name.
Talking about the painter.. What would the motive or gain be? There’s always a motive and or gain from committing such a act as this ..
If it was the painter I would be suspicious of him being hired to gain access.
It would have to be ruled out, imo.
B
I have a theory here. Would like to see what other people think.
Given the way the Trooper was parked near the border, and yet the bodies were actually 90 miles north of their town, it seems like the murderer(s) strongly wanted to insinuate that the family went to Mexico. One of the main reasons the police thought that was possible was based on that internet search that occurred about a week prior where they checked on what kids needed to take into Mexico.
I now wonder if that search was planted, either by the murderer gaining access to the house and putting it into the computer (or having someone else do it for them) OR by having a conversation with one of the parents that then led them to type the search.
So I think police should check the telephone conversations from the day or so before the search was run, as well as any surveillance neighbors could have taken in that day.
In particular, I wonder if the stepfather of the first son or his wife mentioned something to the parents about taking the first son into Mexico or something, which may have prompted a search. Or maybe the stepfather of Jonah requested the first son to look it up, and he was over at the time.
My earlier comment about the fact that the painter was there on the 27/28 was an inference to what I believe is possible- that someone other than Summer or Joey utilized that search.
Gotta be honest, after analyzing the search data for the Anthony case, being right and outsmarting (floabw, it did not come down to smarts, it came down to ego) two different companies and an asset who analyzes for the secret service (or used to) I do not trust a single search report that I cannot review personally or with staff. I am not saying this to be glib or toot my horn in any way- I am saying it because I do not trust any work on this case that is not released in it’s original format with source.
B
Rose writes
@whodunit. imo the “voluntary missing” categorization is so flimsy and irrational that imo the responsible decisionmaker, whoever that was, needs to be scrubbed for being on the take.
—-
Rose- I tried posting a comment earlier that seems stuck in moderation, so I am guessing a glitch my previous post ( on dec 1) didn’t make it through-
so trying again!
here is answer as to who said it was voluntary missing. Other interesting info as well!
in this piece, Lt. Glenn Giannantonio states that there was nothing indicating criminal activity, and maintains the McStays were voluntarily missing.)
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/feb/02/mcstay-missing-fallbrook-family/all/?print
Re Caroline says:
December 2, 2013 at 10:44 pm
(irt computer search)
Blinks response:
Gotta be honest, after analyzing the search data for the Anthony case, being right and outsmarting (floabw, it did not come down to smarts, it came down to ego) two different companies and an asset who analyzes for the secret service (or used to) I do not trust a single search report that I cannot review personally or with staff. I am not saying this to be glib or toot my horn in any way- I am saying it because I do not trust any work on this case that is not released in it’s original format with source.
B
___
Blink and Caroline I have to agree no telling who used the computer -people were going in an out
Blink I know you did alot of work on the Anthony case ( yr work and what was overlooked (S case) still haunts me)
and so
I have to say Ive been thinking…there may be a kronk to this case and it may be Mike McStay…didnt he take the computer before LE did and was he asked to return it or was that just rumor in the book?
My point is MM was the first known person in the house to check on the family..and he was the one who called LE IIRC … and by reading he seems to also be brought up from time to time as a possible… add to that he was said to have borrowed money from the accounts (rumor or fact?)IDK
So in my mind right now- he may end up being kronked in any defense…
Blink- our earlier joke may not be so much of a joke when you look at it from the above perspective….
AJMO
Peace
blink writes
Temecula was an original desirable home location for the McStays in 2009.
B
–
Blink-
What connections do we know about that the McStays had in Temecula?
Take a look at a map of getting from Victorville to San Ysidro where the car was found
http://www.mapquest.com/?version=1.0&hk=4-XDkZ6Au5
Note where temecula is, where Victorville is, where Fall brook is and where San Ysidro is.
It is basically an uninterrupted route, almost a perpendicular line,driving wise.
The car was found four days after the McStays were last known to be alive.
If the McStays were murdered on the day of their disappearance, whoever had the car during the following three days could have easily to accessed this route to San Ysidro, (which also involved using 1-15.)
To me, this says the murderer ( s) were based- at least up until the time they got rid of the car- along that route.
The question is, did the McStays get murdered the same night they disappeared?
If they got murdered on the 4th, someone had the car for three days.
If they got murdered on the 7th, someone had to drive the car from victorville to san ysidro after burring the bodies. No traces of anything in the car, no prints no dirt- this would indicate that whoever had the car also had time to clean it out completely of any evidence they were there.
I think this takes a lot of planning.
It is hard to imagine a painter would go to such lengths over a lost job, but that is leaving out the crazy factor.
Not implicating anyone or any contractor, wrt the painter.
Caution: You have no idea what was tested for, or found in the Trooper- Dugal may have been as accurate stating the family left the US on a zip-line. ( careful to those reading and posting elsewhere because of the whole fallout with WS.)
who- you are mad smart. If a vehicle or potential crime scene comes up with only directives to known operators without DNA submitted per statute- what does that mean to you in terms of this jurisdiction dealing with this matter?
B
Blink- here is anther route from Victorvilee to San Ysidro. This is even MORE direct than the route I sent you in my Dec 3, 2:03 a.m. post.
It is ALL route 1-15
http://www.mapquest.com/?version=1.0&hk=4-XDkZ6Au5#a22bf11e4e582ac9800cd442
Blink writes
Caution: You have no idea what was tested for, or found in the Trooper-
——
Blink, You are right. MY BAD. After reading the guidelines and curriculum for missing persons cases in California, ( I posted the link already) I made an ASSUMPTION that there was nothing of note in the Izuzu, because taking prints and doing dNA analysis is part of the protocol.But after that declaration of voluntary missing, SD turned it over to the FBI, who I also am assuming looked further into the car. But then I am not doing so well with these assumptions, am I. (Thank you for your guidance!)
I recall reading something somewhere that said no prints or anything to lead to suspicion of murder were found in the car.But after googling for twenty minutes, for the life of me, I can’t find a published article that states same. Only thing of note is one thing I did find – this article that states McStay purchased materials for his fountains close to where the Izuzu was found. Also says Texas Eqqusearch was going to fly drones over 90 mile stretch between fall brook and San Ysidro. http://www.ocregister.com/articles/miller-236424-mcstay-missing.html.
The point however, is that as far as San Diego investigation, they found nothing in that car to dissuade THEM from deciding it was a voluntary act on McStays’ part…..
———
Blink writes>
If a vehicle or potential crime scene comes up with only directives to known operators without DNA submitted per statute- what does that mean to you in terms of this jurisdiction dealing with this matter?
—
to me it says that there was either carelessness on part of investigators, or incredible precision on the part of the perps, who left nothing for the investigators to find.
No question as to truth of Patrick McStays statement that this was a botched investigation. Hoping that San Bernadino can eliminate emotionality and figure this out. What a mess.
and thanks again for your guidance!
Correct. It is my understanding there were no foreign prints or DNA swabs in the vehicle, but that is useless information if we don’t know the areas and submissions for testing and type. Sometimes, it is more investigatively relevant to have “nothing” found- as in, someone wiped the car down.
As far as the trooper is concerned, we would also look to it’s service records , dirt sampling ( I guarantee you this is being done now, but nearly 4 years later.)
I would also add that some of the contents of the vehicle were minsinterpreted from my view.
Yes, Patrick McStay has every right to be furious.
B
Interesting discussion about a second car following the Isuzu when it left the family’s home:
http://michellerichmond.com/sanserif/2012/01/26/what-happened-to-the-mcstay-family/
To my knowledge there is no evidence of a second car following the trooper
B
Specifically, two separate comments posted in January and May of 2013 at http://michellerichmond.com/sanserif/2012/01/26/what-happened-to-the-mcstay-family/
The first comment appears under “Melanie”
Melanie
January 11, 2013 at 12:21 pm
“The neighbour cam caught their truck leaving their driveway with a car following in the back.”
The second comment about a car following behind the McStay’s car appears under “Brenda”
Brenda
May 27, 2013 at 6:14 pm
“As for the other car caught on the neighbor’s camara there could have been more than one person. Could someone have been in the car with the McStays and someone else in the car behind them? Perhaps it was someone that they knew…”
@Caroline Dec. 2 Seems like a very plausible scenario as to how the search may have appeared on the McStay’s computer.
Blink
To answer your question: It was not clear to me that you were indicating the original painter so I had a 50/50 chance of picking the wrong person.
Having the original painter at the house changes everything.
Whodunnit
Thanks again for your links. The link that also has an up close photo of one of the graves and the person is beginning the backfill, gives an indication of the soil. This area has a lot less rock than I thought there would be. This could have been dug by hand in 45 min. to an hour. Using equipment would have made it faster.
There appears to be three layers of soil in the open hole. A light sandy soil at the top with some small rocks. About 6 in. down a heavier soil comprised of clay appears and then the combination of sandy soil and small rocks to the bottom.
The article in your link also raises questions about the finances and just who was Summer McStay. What is her real name given to her by her family and where was she born? She may be the reason for the attack on the family.
This whole thing may turn out to be a hit for something Summer did a long time before the birth of the children.
I apologize- It was poorly stated on my part.
B
I had never heard of any second car following either. That’s why I was so surprised to come across the two comments about it.
TY Who, of whom I am always in abject admiration, for the good Lt’s name. Having recently read another misdispositioned San Diego detective case, suggested recently here by Milisa, I am of the opinion
money or politics or guangxhi of some kind, or all of above, affect more than one non-foul play disposition finding by the SDPD.
whodunnit says:
December 3, 2013 at 2:03 am
Blink says,
Not implicating anyone or any contractor, wrt the painter.
Caution: You have no idea what was tested for, or found in the Trooper- Dugal may have been as accurate stating the family left the US on a zip-line. ( careful to those reading and posting elsewhere because of the whole fallout with WS.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yikes. What is WS and what fallout?
websleuths, and Mr. McStay et al
B
Re: rosetta stone purchase and searches for ID needed for children to travel to Mexico-
In Los Angeles at least, over 50 percent of the population speaks spanish. A very large percent of day laborers speak spanish. It is taught in Calif schools from Grade 1 and up. If you dial most large businesses ( like Home depot, for example),public services, or even 411, you are immediately given the option to hear the prompts in Spanish. It is a very useful language to know, especially if you have a business that requires a lot of manual labor. This is not a prejudicial statement, it is just fact. So getting software to learn the spanish language does not in itself mean ONLY that the McStays were preparing to go to a country where Spanish was the first language. As a mother, I don’t consider Mexico a vacation hot spot, but if going there was a required business trip for my husband, I might try to see how easy it would be to go with him, take the kids and make the most of it.
Did the computer show search for the rosetta stone and travel to Mexico were entered one after another, ” at one sitting”? Could just be rumination- many times I have begin a search on one topic that has led to me looking for other information, just for general knowledge.
If someone was planning a trip to a place in Mexico they had never been to before,, you would think you would see some map quest searches too, and perhaps at the same time one was gathering information about passports at the border.
If there were no searches for routing to a specific place in Mexico, one could think that IF a trip was planned, they already knew where they were going and didn’t need directions. And of course, one would think the McStays would have told someone. ( trying not to grains my teeth that authorities were not thorough with this piece)
Did Joseph McStay travel to Mexico on business preceding disappearance, and if so , why and where.
Did the Izuzu have a gps?
The single sentence from that Joseph did business with people in the area close to where the car was found, in article I posted earlier, is of interest, to me at least.
No GPS.
He had no recent business with anyone in San Ysidro, and it was not to purchase granite for the house. He had previous interests in the area that were professional. That article is incorrect.
B
Joseph McStay did electrical work. Perhaps the electric cord found in the gravesite was traced back to his own inventory, which might be helpful in determining when and where Joseph came under control of the perps. Per http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2270316/I-turn-Revealed-shocking-emails-sent-wife-husband-vanished-trace-years-ago.html
“Another email from Joseph to Summer in 2005 shows that their relationship was under strain then too.”
“In response to an unidentified incident which happened before, Joseph writes: ‘I guess you think so little of me…very sad & hurt…I am under a tremendous amount of pressure and now this…
…I did electrical all day yesterday…my hands are cut, my back hurts just to make some $$$ other than bartending 2 very long shifts….I don’t get it’…”.
QUESTION:
Magyver was hired to complete the painting job.
He was there on wed. Feb third.
Any info on what Magyver gave as reason didn’t return the next day to complete the job?
Yes. Summer told him to take the day off and come back Saturday, he texted her and called her that Friday to schedule without response.
B
We have a link between Dan Kavanaugh
J4McS- I edited your comment because in some cases the spelling or name was wrong, and it is an accusation. I am aware of the information and there are a few names that are missing from your info as well.
I will say that I continue to be very interested in the possibility that money laundering is an issue to be considered for motivation and I am very interested in Mr. Kavanaugh’s activities surrounding the McStay disappearance and now murders. I am not seeing how he did not at least have knowledge.
B
It takes about two days of driving to get from San Diego to Belize.
The route is through Mexico.
The McStays owned land in Belize.
Is the internet search for traveling with kids in Mexico, as well as the purchase of rosetta Stone a red herring?
Wouldn’t it be possible that the family would be considering a trip to Belize at some point in time, but hadn’t made any concrete plans just yet?
If the McStays had just gotten an order for fountains that would bring in $$ upon completion, would they take a trip to where they owned land?
Did they own land in Belize?
B
It seems that all the thinking before finding the bodies was based on the assumption that the McStays were voluntarily missing- because of the rosetta stone purchase and the car being found near the border. The authorities assumed that the McStays drove the Izusu to that parking lot in San ysidro. But they have no proof of who drove that car there. And if you discount the internet searches about Mexico, they have no idea why the car was there.
So again- what if the internet searches have nothing whatsoever to do with this crime?
If you take the searches out of the quotient as relevant ,it becomes apparent instantly that this family was murdered.
Did the concept that the McStays had gone to Mexico originate with the authorities or with a friend of the family? Did Magyver- or anyone- say this to authorities or just agree with the theory widen authorities presented it?
darn it typo AGAIN meant to write ” did Magyver- or anyone- say this to the authorities or just agree when the authorities presented it ( their theory)?
Hi there,
Great blog. Glad I found it. So, I’m curious about Google Earth. I downloaded it the other day and spent many hours looking at dates (there is a history feature that allows you to go back and look at a specific location at that time). I started with a week before 2/4/2010 and then of course 2/4/2010 and then the week of 2/4/2010 (saw no track marks) and literally checked every month until I saw track marks (they appeared on 3/21/2012). This is the first time I’ve ever used Google Earth. I would like to know how reliable it is and if what I’ve seen is true, then that tells us that the bodies were most likely not left there until 3/21/2012 because why would the killer(s) come back and make graves? If that is the case then it tells me that someone had the bodies at a different location for 2+ years (is this the same location that the trooper was stored at for 4 days, like a garage or barn?) and possibly something happened in the case with LE around March 2012 to make the killer(s) feel like they needed to move the bodies pronto. Can anyone that knows Google Earth verify this? The location of the graves is 34°36’5.85″N 117°15’25.22″W.
Hi there,
Great blog. Glad I found it. So, I’m curious about Google Earth. I downloaded it the other day and spent many hours looking at dates (there is a history feature that allows you to go back and look at a specific location at that time). I started with a week before 2/4/2010 and then of course 2/4/2010 and then the week of 2/4/2010 (saw no track marks) and literally checked every month until I saw track marks (they appeared on 3/21/2013). This is the first time I’ve ever used Google Earth. I would like to know how reliable it is and if what I’ve seen is true, then that tells us that the bodies were most likely not left there until 3/21/2013 because why would the killer(s) come back and make graves? If that is the case then it tells me that someone had the bodies at a different location for 3+ years (is this the same location that the trooper was stored at for 4 days, like a garage or barn?) and possibly something happened in the case with LE around March 2013 to make the killer(s) feel like they needed to move the bodies pronto. Can anyone that knows Google Earth verify this? The location of the graves is 34°36’5.85″N 117°15’25.22″W.
blink writes:
Did they own land in Belize?
B
–
Jan Caldwell, San Diego Sheriif’s office Publi Affairs director is quoted in this artle saying the McStays owned property in Belize.
http://fox5sandiego.com/2013/11/15/fallbrook-neighbors-react-to-mcstay-family-homicide/#axzz2mTuZkVP8
Oye. I see that in print. I admit they may have a source for that we do not, but as I am not willing at this time to be more specific- react accordingly.
B
Any info on what Magyver gave as reason didn’t return the next day to complete the job?
Yes. Summer told him to take the day off and come back Saturday, he texted her and called her that Friday to schedule without response.
—–
If Summer told him to come back Saturday, why didn’t he just come back Saturday? Why did he need to call and confirm?
I don’t see how presenting a text to authorities is proof of what Summer said to him.
Where was he on Feb 4, 5, 6, 7. ( I am assuming he checked out with authorities)
Where did he live?
Did Macgyver say that he thought they could have gone to Mexico?
These questions are spurred by my own curiosity- you had mentioned in part 2 you would be writing about the person who was with the McStays the day before the appearance, and I took this to mean MacGyver- so I figured you would have these answers about him- thanks in advance