McStay Family Murdered: Will Desert Graves Yield Their Killers?
Deserted in the Desert
Gianni Family Photo
Gianni Martelli McStay had rock star hair at only 4years old. His little brother Joseph, affectionately nicknamed Chubba- did as well. They both rocked a beanie like no other little dudes.
Chubba Family Photo
Gianni and Chubba were as inseparable in life as they were in death when they were recovered in a shallow grave in the Mojave Desert on November 11.
Their parents, Joseph, 40 and Summer McStay, 43, were located in a separate grave nearby.
A 3rd gravesite was found-but empty. A protected source not authorized to speak to the media has confirmed that at least one of the parent’s remains was bound by an electrical cord.
While formal DNA comparisons and autopsy protocols are pending, the manner of death in all four victims have been declared homicides.
Just about 50 yards off the intersection of Route 15 and Quarry Rd the family that San Diego County Sheriff’s Department (SDCSD) believed was “likely” voluntarily missing on their own and living in Mexico, was recovered in a 30 hour excavation process. An off road motorcycle enthusiast called the San Bernardino County Sheriff when he came across what he suspected was human remains.
Last April SDCSD forwarded the McStay case to the FBI based on their conclusions that the McStay’s had McGone to Mexico, following a lengthy complaint of their handling of the case by Patrick McStay, Joseph’s Father. Troy Dugal, previous lead investigator of the McStay case, appeared on several news and cable television programs over the last three years explaining there was “overwhelming” circumstantial evidence the family of four that was pictured crossing the border into Tijuana, Mexico the evening of February 8th, 2010 was in fact, the McStays.
Following the recovery, San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Office will maintain jurisdiction of the investigation.
Frenemies.. Frenethieves.. Friends.. Family or Cartel?
Who brutally murders innocent children and dumps them in a hole they dug in the desert?
Logically- someone who is very familiar with the area. Of course it is just as shocking and horrific to murder anyone, but it takes a specific brand of evil to murder a baby. Make that two.
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that either Joseph or Summer McStay had any ties to drugs, associates with ties to drugs or cartel, at any time. None.
Contrary to a top selling book on the case, “No Goodbyes” by Rick Baker, there has never been any evidence whatsoever that Summer McStay was some sort of closeted psychotic and homicidal type. The book goes on to malign members of both Joseph and Summer’s families and in some cases outright accuses same of extortion or stealing. Baker’s subsequent public theory is that Summer murdered Joseph and everyone should be looking for her and the boys in Mexico.
Not surprisingly , Baker has requested Amazon pull his book from available stock and has offered refunds to prior purchases. Popular online sleuth sites previously promoting “No Goodbye’s” have since either deleted it’s hundreds of posts endorsing Baker, or moved them to a member’s only private viewing area.
Albeit obtusely, Baker does touch on a troubling and serious abuse allegation concerning Joseph McStay’s oldest son from his first marriage, Jonah, and his step-father, Michael McFadden. He writes summer filed a complaint with Child Protective Services after she and Joseph recorded a conversation with Jonah and placed a copy of same with a private party for safekeeping. Blinkoncrime.com has been able to independently verify that is accurate, but that the investigation was not known to be completed until shortly after the McStay’s disappearance. Under California probate law, Jonah would be an heir to the McStay estate or as otherwise provisioned in the instance of an existing will.
Interviewed by Laura Ling for E! Investigation, Joseph McStay’s web administrator Dan Kavanaugh claims he was the first to become concerned. In Baker’s book, he refers to him as a suspect and details how he alleges he was funneling cash from McStay’s business account before he or anyone else knew the family was missing. Kavanaugh has an unrelated open criminal matter in San Diego County according to court records.
Chase Merritt- Joseph McStay’s business partner in his water fountain design and installation business was the last number ever dialed from his phone at 8:28PM on February 4th. Merritt joined McStay in a lunch meeting earlier that afternoon where they discussed a proposal for a very large car wash chain to feature custom fountains in each facility. According to family friend MacCargar McGyver, McStay was very excited about the opportunity. Merritt claims he passed a voluntary lie detector test, and that he was adamant that Joseph McStay would never have taken his family to Mexico and has always believed they met with foul play.
McGYver spent several days leading up to February 4th at the McStay home due to a painter Summer hired not returning to complete the job. McGyver introduced Summer and Joseph and by all accounts was a close confidant of the couple.
Patrick McStay, Joseph’s Father living in Texas has had some harsh words for the investigation into the disappearance of his son, daughter in law and grandsons.
“…most botched, inept investigation I’ve ever seen in my entire life.”
He also believes very strongly that the list of suspects with motive to kill his family members is very short. Three, to be exact.
He said the department didn’t even bother to contact him to tell him his son’s remains had been found.
“I got a message from someone [on Thursday] on Facebook telling me to go and read an article,” McStay said. “The minute I read the article, I knew it was him.”
“I have exhausted and have so much information on three possible persons of interest. All have a motive.”
The three individuals are not connected to each other, but all of them seem like likely candidates. Patrick says one of them seems to be a particularly likely suspect: he’s a wealthy man with a long rap sheet that includes charges of attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon and burglary. McStay says he, too, has a motive for killing his son.
Although Mr. McStay did not reference him by name, he may be referring to Michael James McFadden, who was arrested in July 1998 and charged with attempted murder and a litany of other felonies including great bodily harm to a child:
459/460(a) PC – Burglary 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Assault 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
273.5(a) PC – Domestic Violence 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
12022.7(d) PC – Infliction of great bodily injury on a child under the age of five … 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Assault 07/16/1999 02/25/2000 Dismissed
240 PC – Attempt to inflict violent force on another person. 07/16/1999 02/25/2000 Dismissed
245(a)(1) PC – Assault with a deadly weapon other than a firearm 07/16/1998 01/18/2000 Pled Guilty
12022.7(d) PC – Infliction of great bodily injury on a child under the age of five… 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
422 PC – Criminal Terrorist Threat 07/16/1999 01/18/2000 Pled Guilty
664-187 PC – Attempted Murder 07/16/1998 02/25/2000 Dismissed
You will note some of the charges are from 1998, others 1999 on the anniversary date, McFadden successfully negotiated a plea agreement and only pled to criminal terroristic threats and assault with a deadly weapon other than a firearm. Both felonies.
In the complaint he lodged against the detectives in SDCSD, Patrick McStay specifically references failure to interview key suspects he provided to LE directly.
Given the location of the bodies, it would seem that whoever is responsible would at least want investigators to think McFadden was involved. As a self-proclaimed mountain bike “racer”, McFadden has participated in several bike events in various locations all along the Route 15 Mojave corridor. SBCSO says they will be re-interviewing everyone in the case and have no suspects.
There have been no named suspects to date and the investigation is ongoing. Memorial or Funeral arrangements for the McStay’s have not yet been announced . LATE EDIT: The family and friends of the McStay family will gather at the grave site in Victorville, on Joseph’s McStay’s birthday.
To be continued in Part 2: Analysis of the last day of their lives points to involvement by someone they knew.
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Rose- back at ya, I follow your posts voraciously!
Rose writes:
Having recently read another misdispositioned San Diego detective case, suggested recently here by Milisa, I am of the opinion
money or politics or guangxhi of some kind, or all of above, affect more than one non-foul play disposition finding by the SDPD.
_ That case where the wife was declared a suicide though she was found with her hands bound behind her back,… yes, SDPD isn’t looking so sharp. But what can be done about their mistakes? I fear not much at this point, so hopefully San Bernadino authorities will come through with their ” starting from square one” investigation
Belize property comes from Sheriff’s spokesman:
http://fox5sandiego.com/2013/11/15/fallbrook-neighbors-react-to-mcstay-family-homicide/#axzz2kI4NkljI
Regarding the great bodily injury to a child PC 12022.7 (d). This enhancement was amended in 2002 by the following bill (linked below) to include GBI of a child. As far as I can tell, prior to 2002, the (d) section was only an enhancement for GBI. Since Mr. McFadden’s offense occurred in 1998, he is correct, he was never charged with GBI of a child.
http://www.legislature.ca.gov/cgi-bin/port-postquery?bill_number=ab_1789&sess=9900&house=B&author=zettel
Correction, 12022.7 (d) was amended in 2000 (not 2002). See link above.
Yep, could only be seen by you and I, ever.
B
Michael McStay said the family owned property in Belize as well on E! Investigates. He said the property had been checked to see if they were there. Also, IIRC, MCGyver McCargar said he double checked with Summer about painting on Saturday because he couldn’t afford the gas if he just drove over and found out she had changed her mind.
I am trying to get confirmation of that. If they did, it had to have been after 2005.
B
I am of the opinion
money or politics or guangxhi of some kind, or all of above, affect more than one non-foul play disposition finding by the SDPD.
——
This is an article from October 2010, citing the 17 million dollar budget cut to SDPD. To get to that decision, there must have been a lot going on the previous year ( s)
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2010/Oct/06/deep-cuts-police-department-forecast-without-new-i/
More budget cuts continued between then and now.
The SDPD handed the case over to the FBI in April 2013, saying they were not closing the case but that the FBI had more resources and a wider scope for investigations. Scroll to last paragraph for that info found here:
http://www.10news.com/news/father-of-joseph-mcstay-outraged-over-handling-of-missing-family-case-111513
To me, it just sounds like this was a PD that was beleaguered by budget cuts and lack of personal who could crack the code. The Rebecca Zahua case and hanna Anderson case could only have been impacted by the same problem. Not enough money, not enough of the right people. Just a guess.
please attribute the first statement in my post of dec 4 @3;17 am to ROSE. Thanks!
Please attribute the first statement of my post Dec 4 @3:17 a.m to ROSE
Wrt “Did Macgyver say that he thought they could have gone to Mexico?”
a question from this neophyte. Are police interviews of friends of family, or family,
or others, transcribed & foia-able? If not, how does one know without a detective leak?
and how does one know a police dept leak or comment is true?
I’m asking this wrt McGyver but also generically.
In general, specific witness interviews are recorded, but the protocol varies by jurisdiction and agency. So my answer is, the good ones do, and likely surreptitiously. In an open investigation they will not be foia’able based on the exclusion rule of the jurisdictional statute.
There are limited exceptions to how narrow that is, and sometimes it has to do with discovery one someone is charged, but in general the only real know to know if something is a LE leak is to ask for confirmation or denial on the record.
B
FYI interesting blog posts by RB…. slander lawsuit? Yikes
http://clemmonsfreepress.com/delancy-research-shows-thousands-of-illegal-voters-in-nc/
JMO
Hi,
Thanks for this blog. Great sensible theories and questions.
I’ve not read this but heard it stated in interviews over the years with Michael McStay and also with Joseph McStay’s father on the phone during interview. It was said that Summer was adamantly opposed to traveling to Mexico and freely told friends and family although she was planning a family vacation it would not be to Mexico because it’s too dangerous. Does anyone know if this is fact?
Something which has puzzled me is that I read and heard in interviews that the F.B.I. was a part of the investigative team early on because two of the missing persons were children. Is this true and if so, wouldn’t the F.B.I be lead investigators?
Also, no one even needed legal access to the home. Michael McStay has said in several tv interviews that he got into his brother’s home by climbing through a window. If they frequently left windows unlocked, or window latch was broken making it easy to sneak in and out of the home – anyone could have used the computer to fake a search to Mexico as part of the plan to give the appearance of their leaving voluntarily.
HOWEVER, this means the perp(s) would have had to have had complete confidence that SDPD would very easily be fooled into believing this theory. This to me shows either great arrogance or possible reason for SDPD NOT using common sense in their “investigation” of the McStay disappearance? Was it really based on that awful cctv video where everyone crossing the border was in silouette? Surely there was better video there are cameras EVERYWHERE along the border. None of what SDPD has publicly said makes any logical sense. UNLESS they were pretending to believe the McStays left of their own free will in order to give the perp(s) an increased sense of power and that they committed the perfect murders so that they’d slip up and reveal themselves to LE?
Another thing I’ve wondered about…..Summer and Joseph’s cell phones. It’s been reported the phones died or were turned off on Feb 5th or 6th? Can’t Le still trace movements of cell phones between the evening of Feb 4th until the phones died or were turned off?
This case has haunted me from the first time I heard of it on 20/20. The footage of people in silhouette crossing the border. The McStay family photos and videos. Their beloved dogs mysteriously left in the backyard without food or even water. The SDPD doing such awful terrible investigating. The F.B.I involved but only partially? Are the SDPD and F.B.I playing Columbo and actually know a lot more than they let on?
It could also mean someone was on her computer that was looking up informaton that did not realize was trackable? We don’t know the specifics of the search and I will tell you there is ALOT of interpretable data that goes into it that may or may not be correct.
B
@KS
Regarding google earth.
Most of the images seen on google earth come from aerial photography (not satellite). Most areas will be photographed every few years. More densely populated areas are photographed more frequently.
When looking at older google earth images, the date you enter gives you a view of how google earth looked on that day, not necessarily how the actual location looked on that day. To get an idea of when the photos were taken, go to the location and date that interests you and then look at the bottom of the screen for the copyright notice. This will often give the year the photographs were taken.
Your research tells us that the tracks appeared sometime before March 2012. They could have appeared any time after the photograph was taken. I don’t have access to google earth at work to try and identify the date of the previous images.
KS
The history feature in Google Earth does allow you to go back to some previous time that the area was the prime photo. However, you need to be aware that these are not updated sometimes for several years. This is for the non-subscription free version. Google has a paid service that is kept much more up to date. Look at all the written information on the area you are viewing. It will tell you the last update.
Google also has the surface view feature called street view that is helpful if it has been photographed by the little “earth” car.
Many of the news services use the subscription version to illustrate their stories.
I recently learned of this site and am very impressed with your attention to detail and verification of facts. I have followed the McStay case since the beginning and have had correspondence with various friends and family members over the course of the 3 years and 9 months since the first articles appeared in the news.
I noticed some questions concerning Summer’s name and place of birth. We have found records confirming that she was born Virginia Lisa Aranda and her birth was recorded in the state of California, USA. There was an early live interview with her mother in which she stated that the name ‘Martelli’ was that of a step-father whom she was very close to in her childhood. The name ‘Summer’ was a nickname she chose for herself early in life and at some point she took it as her legal name. Unfortunately the video of the interview with her mother has been gone for a very long time along with many early newspaper articles and other interviews.
Thank you Sunny and welcome.
I personally never saw Summer’s name changes as nefarious.
B
TY, whodunit. Inadequate budget &
weak personnel resources then.
From watching the videos made by Joseph, my take was that Summer loved her husband and her boys very much and that she would have done anything and everything in her power to protect them. Clearly, she was a beautiful woman who deserved to have lived a long and happy life. What a terrible loss for the McStay and Aranda families.
I agree with you, and that is why I get so frustrated when I see this maligning going on all over the place. Personally, her and Joey had a better relationship on road trips than Mr. Blink and I. That exchange about which way to go would have been entirely different in our vehicle, lol.
Not proud of it, but am working on it
B
Thank you Tim. The body of work this moderator is so proud of obviously doesn’t include publishing the correct information regarding my past. I state again, as Tim pointed out, I have never been charged with a crime against a child. You owe me an apology at best. My “rap sheet” is all from one terrible night in my life. That night was the last time I consumed alcohol. I have been a solid productive member of society since. I am a father, husband and business owner. I love life and have a positive outlook. I simply don’t like when my reputation is being maligned by false information. Slander is not nice. I do appreciate all of your concern but when it comes to my being a criminal it is simply not true. I committed a crime some 17 or so years ago. That crime involved myself, my girlfriend and another man. Period. I’m not proud of it but frankly I served my time and never looked back. My family attends church and love God. We love each other and have good lives. This will be my last comment here but I thank Tim for taking the time to find the truth. Something Blink never bothered with.
Mr. McFadden-
First- let me congratulate you on your sobriety. I am a huge proponent of positive change and second chances for deserving folks.
Not really sure how this picture of you fits into that “personal code”, but anyhoo.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150528003633777&set=pb.82901268776.-2207520000.1386300197.&type=3&theater
Reminder- you came on here stating the facts were incorrect, spewing your own INCORRECT facts, and I still treated you respectfully and asked you to enlighten me as to what was incorrect to which you responded that you owed me nothing. Again, every effort was made on my part to allow you to correct any information you felt was incorrect, and you did not respond to either request.
That said, I find it incredulous that you feel in spite of that, ANYONE owes you an apology for copying the exact criminal data file- one which you have yet to acknowledge citing “half those charges are not yours.”
Not a criminal? Your rap sheet was from one terrible night in your life?
Wow. I think someone skipped the contrition portion of the penitentary program you were in for nearly 3 years, plus parole.
You are a convicted felon who brutally terrorized two people and that does not even cover the fact that you are not acknowledging why you had separate arraignments a year later. Let me be clear. I have spoken to more than one extended family member and you Sir, have NOT been honest about the events concerning your entire “rap sheet.”
You feel maligned and slandered? Please. Your step-son’s Father, step-Mom and baby brothers were murdered and dumped in the desert and you feel compelled to make this about you- even when you absolutely know the only reputation you have is the one created by people’s lack of knowledge of your public past.
That said, if you feel you would like to further debate the facts of your knife weilding night of Hell for your victims, we can. I spoke to one of them today.
Few parting thoughts:
1. Know the difference between slander and libel. I am forever embarrassed for people that shoot off their pie holes without knowing the difference.
2. Know that the absolute defense to defamation and it’s subcategories is truth, among other things.
3. Recommended reading: David and Goliath- Malcolm Gladwell. It contains the fine work of Mike Reynolds on the 3 strikes law.
I have no doubt as a double convicted felon that has impacted your thinking since 1998. Perhaps a great deal during the CPS investigation- I imagine.
Lastly, thank you for acknowledging my pride in my body of work here. I am hopeful to contribute to resolution in this case similarly.
Did you care to share any of your proposed efforts to inspire advocacy for Joey, Summer, G and Joey, Jr?
B
Questions that linger in my mind…
1. Was it Joey who made the last phone call? Or was it a ‘butt dial’? Did the perp(s) make the call? Why Chase? Was he was in distress and just dialed any number he could dial quickly from the call log?
Everyone keeps saying the call lasted a minute but don’t cell phone companies round-up their minutes? For instance, if you call a number and it lasts for 35 seconds, they consider that a minute. But does the phone call have to connect (like to a voicemail) for the minutes to start? Or does the time start just by dialing. The phone call is critical and can offer many clues imo.
2. About the whole Mexico thing- Someone made a good point about if Summer made any other searches about Mexico. If there was only one search about children’s travel requirements to Mexico then that is somewhat suspect. Because if you’re planning a vacation most people seem to search hotels/flights around the time they would search for travel requirements. Did SM and JM have their passports?
About Summer’s comments regarding Mexico being dangerous- I’ve made the same comments many times before. Butttttt… I’ve seen some enticing Costco travel deals to Mexico (like complimentary bottomless Margaritas for your whole trip…um yes please!) and my friends who travel there every March assured us that the touristy areas are very safe.
I don’t think Summer would have ever considered driving through Mexico but I do believe since they moved closer to Mexico that a family vacation to Los Cabos or Cancun sounded appealing. Especially with Spring and Summer coming up and with Joey getting some money from a huge business contract (correct me if I’m wrong).
3. I’m kind of baffled by the grave site. Why not take them up to the mountains, deep into the woods near Big Bear Lake? Did the perp(s) want them to be found? For what reason? Inheritance? Who was the biker who just happened to come across the graves after so long?
4. Did Summer have any run-ins with the law? Someone found her legal name on a court docket in San Bernadino County from years ago. Also, Patrick MsStay said that her ex-boyfriend had been in prison and was released months before they disappeared. He moved close to the family and according to PS had threatened the family.
5. Is PM estranged from the family?
6. Does anyone know if and or why Tim Miller of Equisearch stopped working on the case? Did he hop on the ‘they went to Mexico’ train. I heard he was suspicious of certain people so he decided not to take the case but I haven’t been able to find anything to confirm that.
Whoever did this had so much hatred towards Joey and/or Summer. So much so that they wanted them to witness their children getting executed and falling lifelessly into a grave. What a monster. I can not even imagine the horror.
I appreciate everyone’s insight and thoughts especially yours Blinkeroo!
Some girls know the points on the compass while others cannot tell you the direction to go to find the front door of a building they are in.
I don’t get much in the way of driving directions from Mrs. ATG. She just waits until there is a major mistake and points out what should be taking place. We made a trip to Chicago,drove all around the city and then headed to Houston with a stop at the ST. Louis Art Museum to view an on loan collection of the dutch masters. Leaving the area the road was a circular drive to get to a North South street. I lost my bearings regarding the position of the sun and proceeded to turn North rather than South.
After driving about a mile, I made the comment that traffic seemed to be getting heavier rather than lighter. She very sweetly told me that it should be getting heavier since we were driving back into town rather than out of town. She was watching the street block number signs get smaller numbers. She didn’t care if it was North or South she knew that the numbers get larger the farther one went away from the center of town. She was 100% correct.
We laughed about that one all the way to Houston.
Thanks Rose, Kudos to you. I have been kind of hung up on location, loca tion, location based on reading about “Geographic Profiling”, a system established at the Vancouver, BC police dept. It assesses and predicts the offenders most likely place of residence, work, social venues and travel routes or an “activity space”. And they use a computer system to track data. The gist I believe is that most criminals do their crimes within a certain radius of the afforementioned data. It will be interesting to find out where they were actually killed. I went on the SB County Sherrifs website to see if there was anymore information, nothing much. There was a human skull found 18 miles from victorville, Nov. 5, I think, probably not related. Anyway, I appreciate your comments and concur.
Lol ATG you kill me lol
Whenever I tell my BF go turn one way he immediately goes the opposite…. 5 years of my poor directions has shown him I’m always right except when it comes to navigation
Does anyone know if MM and DK know one another? Or have any of the LE agencies involved checked DK’s computer/email or cell for communication with MM? Is it possible the perp(s) chose the grave site location in an attempt to point to Joseph’s business partner? I would assume DK knows Mr. Merritt’s home address? I was also wondering if the information I’ve seen (I’m not sure if it was on this blog) about DK sending Joseph threatening texts or im’s is true and if it is, had Joseph reported DK to LE about the threats?
Which MM?
B
Trey says:
December 4, 2013 at 5:19 am
Trey says, “Something which has puzzled me is that I read and heard in interviews that the F.B.I. was a part of the investigative team early on because two of the missing persons were children. Is this true and if so, wouldn’t the F.B.I be lead investigators?
@Trey, one of the primary missions of the FBI is to assist local LE. Once local LE has requested assistance, the FBI will assign agents to assist in the investigation. As my DH tells it, and he has had a lot of experience in this area, the FBI and local LE rarely butt heads about who “leads”. It is all about working together to solve the case. The bottom line is that the FBI does not have to “lead” the case to help LE solve it. In the recent press conference, the SBCSD announced that they leading this investigation with assistance from the FBI and San Diego.
~~~~~~~
Trey says, “Are the SDPD and F.B.I playing Columbo and actually know a lot more than they let on?
@Trey, I strongly suspect that they do.
Agreed Grace and that is an excellent explanation, however, I would add this was the FBI’s case since April of this year, until November 11, 2013.
I mention this specifically ( and as your DH will attest no doubt) because the rules of discovery are different between federal and state assets. Secondly, there could be a parallel federal investigation for reasons involving import/export practices and $$ laundering following the McStay’s disappearance.
B
I am sure (redacted) is the murderer.
I redacted this as I have been very, very diligent about not allowing accusations like that, but without naming names, what could possibly be the reason you have formed that conclusion?
B
Trixie- can I reach you at this email for discussion?
B
Jennifer- respectfully, that link is banned from here. That person has no idea what they are talking about and needs a few Reid courses.
No reflection on you of course.
B
Jane Johnston writes:
Also, IIRC, MCGyver McCargar said he double checked with Summer about painting on Saturday because he couldn’t afford the gas if he just drove over and found out she had changed her mind.
—-
I am a Los Angeles resident. In eary 2010, a gallon of regular unleaded gas was about 3 dollars a gallon, and you could find gas satiation that were below 3 pretty easily. Not a lot of hybrids back then, but 15miles per gallon would be average for a decent car or suv.
Today, out here premium unleaded is around 4 dollars, and frequently you do hear people talk about gas prices when considering work that involves driving more than 25 miles a day. But I don’t recall that perspective back in 2010.
So you think Mike Mcstay is above suspicion?
Based on that link? Is that your question, or do you mean overall?
B
Milisa says:
December 4, 2013 at 10:13 pm
Thanks Rose, Kudos to you. I have been kind of hung up on location, loca tion, location based on reading about “Geographic Profiling”,
———
I am intrigued by that too, and at the risk of kind of repeating myself, it has always ben interesting toy me that The graves were is a place that was almost the same distance from the Mcstay house as where their car was ultimately found. To me, this speaks of the perps being based somewhere in that area at the time.
The result of the car being found in San Ysidro was that Eqqusearch sent out a drone(s) to photograph the area between Fallbrook and San Ysidro, a distance of about 90 miles.. If only they would have sent drones the same amount of miles to the NORTH of Fallbrook as well…..
f you map quest directions ” Victorville to San Ysidro, you will see the route is basically a direct line, with Fallbrook about in the middle the middle.
http://www.mapquest.com/#b096ff17862ebaf20ba9f087
who- I do not believe that drone ever made the trip in this case and the vehicle was found by a LE database search because the tow company is required to log the VIN. TES had nothing to do with it and it is my understanding there was some sort of fallout between Tim Miller and the family when Steph Watts allegedly misrepresented himself as part of a search team.
B
GraceintheHills says:
December 5, 2013 at 12:54 am
Blink says, “Agreed Grace and that is an excellent explanation, however, I would add this was the FBI’s case since April of this year, until November 11, 2013.
I mention this specifically ( and as your DH will attest no doubt) because the rules of discovery are different between federal and state assets. Secondly, there could be a parallel federal investigation for reasons involving import/export practices and $$ laundering following the McStay’s disappearance.
B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Blink, that is an excellent point. It is possible that these issues (import/export/laundering) were part of the investigation from the outset. Imo, there is so much more to this case than meets the eye.
Thank goodness for off-road bikers in the deserts. I have no doubt that these perp(s) are feeling more heat right now than they could ever experience in the desert. Finding these victims’ remains (and all other evidence at the burial scene), imo, is going to advance this case to it’s conclusion.
The more I think about the (probable) staging of this crime, the burial in the desert, the shallow graves, and the little boys’ remains, the more convinced I am that the entire family was the target. One has to ask who would want the entire family dead. I would bet the list of suspects is not a long one. JMO,only.
Again, Blink thanks for covering this tragic case. May the perpetrator(s) soon be brought to justice.
blink writes:
who- I do not believe that drone ever made the trip in this case
—–
Here is article from The Orange County Register , originally published March 6, 2010 , stating that drone search did occur, collected thousands of images but none that offered anything definitive.
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/mcstay-241230-michael-family.html
Your exactly right it does say that, it does not say it is the reason the car was located ( lol
. I will simply say I believe that info was a peace saving distraction for the instant fallout that occurred.
B
blink writes:
it is my understanding there was some sort of fallout between Tim Miller and the family when Steph Watts allegedly misrepresented himself as part of a search team.
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Regarding Steve Watts, and his involvement with the McStay search, Texas Eqqusearch connections::
March 12, 2010 statement from ITSR=( First Special Response group) about Steve Watts exploitation of the mCstay case:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/msar-riders/2010q1/006435.html
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In March 2010, On Texas Eqqusearch own home page, it is stated that the McStays were soliciting funds to pay for lodging etc for Texas eqquseacrh, but that no funds had been received for same by Texas eqqusearch. Tim Miller makes statement that this is improper on part of McStays:
http://texasequusearch.org/?s=McStay+Family&submit.x=48&submit.y=12
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I will not post link to Rick Baker’s website, but that is one of the places i was led to when searching for on line info of Tim Miller left McStay case.
Here is what Baker says, on Nov 28, 2013:
” Mike McStay: I interviewed Mike McStay on my radio show in May of 2011 and asked him a number of pointed questions for which I knew the answers. I knew these answers because I had talked to Tim Miller, from Texas Equusearch on the phone for two hours the morning of my interview. Mr. Miller had back out of the case after spending time with Mike McStay. When I asked the questions on my show, Mike McStay was not truthful with his answers.”
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There is a large presence of rumination on blog site Scared Monkeys about Steve Watts and Tim Miller…
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It appears that Tim Miller abandoned the search due to something about funding, Steve Watts exploitation of sensitive information gathered in his connections with Texas Eqqusearch, while misrepresenting himself to 1stRS,
but I cannot find specific date of when exactly Texas Eqqusearch signed off.
It may have been all of the above complicated by the way SDPD interacted with Eqqusearch as well. Certainly Steve Watts was unethical in divulging info that he gathered as a reporter, while presenting himself as a detective.
Again, what a mess. To me there is no mystery that the SDPD investigation went quickly off on a tangent of a ” voluntarily missing” premise and that affected everything from then on. And it is clear that, no matter how much one can detest the media, if this case had not been kept relatively alive by the efforts of the remaining McStay family and friends, by bloggers etc., there would be little out there to sift through as a monday morning quarter back…..
San Bernadino starting from scratch four years after the fact, very disheartening. But clearly they had to .
Most importantly Blink- when do we get part two??? No real information is coming via media about the case since announcements mad that bodies were found and SBPD was taking the lead. Would really love to know what you can share with us!!
Who- I appreciate that but as you know by now, lol, I take facts and integrity of investigative efforts very seriously. There is so much misinformation swirling around this case my team is tasked with vetting to the nth. The war room is buzzing, if that is any help.
B
blink writes:
and the vehicle was found by a LE database search because the tow company is required to log the VIN. TES had nothing to do with it
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Blink I did not say that Texas Eqqusearch was responsible for finding the izusu via drones. I wrote that TexasEqqusearch chose the area in which the drones would search as a result of the car being found in San Ysidro. Once the car was found by LE, texas Eqqusearch narrowed its drone search to the surrounding area.
Sorry, should have written it differently to make i my statements clearer.!
Hello Blink,
If I can ask (and I’m not wanting details)……..in all your research on this case have you discovered anything that caused you to gasp or has made your hair stand on end?
I have read about a lot of cases over the years but with regard to this tragedy I can’t even hazard a guess as to what happened.
The mere notion that any human or humans can murder children in cold blood and the permutations of how this went down with the parents is chilling. I think at this point I have noticed that my training and experience doesn’t really allow me to gasp so to speak- so I can remain objective and focused. Longevity mechanism, no doubt.
That said, I could fill a silo with some images that are emblazoned in my mind I would love to have never seen and I presume ultimately this case will live there too.
B
Not aware of one, all good.
B
IMO, the reaction one gets can say more than the words said. And one who takes money from their employer’s account must know more than he is telling. Therefore, DK knew something. Where did it come from? Was it $$$ laundry or was it a person that wanted to destroy Joe’s family. If $$$ laundry then was it drug cartel? Did Joe know about it? Did he just find out it was going on? If it was something more personal, was it someone that felt threatened that their family was going to be broken up therefore that person decided to destroy Joe’s family. I can’t wait to read your next segment.
AJMO
Kjazzyjazz
Whodunit, I understand what you mean, about the drone search, too bad they didn’t ever go North. it is interesting about the mapping and mileage, it makes you wonder. Another case I always found intriguing as far as location and geographic profiling is the “Long Island Serial Killer”. I don’t believe they ever solved that one yet as well. I like your name whodunit, clever.
See my thumb over the end of the EMPTY bottle, dummy?
That is your response to my post and I am the dummy?
Dude you are a tool. Seriously.
p.s. Who says dummy in 2013, btw?
B
It was a joke.
Ps, I have no strikes and did not serve 3 years. I’m sorry but you are a hack.
F stands for Felony. You have separate felony convictions served concurrently and you were sentenced to 2 years on one and 8 months on the other. I am more than willing to let you continue to make a bigger fool of yourself, the guy who was never posting again 4 posts ago – maybe post your mugshot(s)?
Case Number: 98WF1745
Printable Version
OC Pay Number: 1122096
Originating Court: West
Defendant: Mcfadden, Michael James ( note, there is an alias corrected record with this file)
Demographics…
Names…
Case Status: Closed
Details…
Case Stage: – Release Status: – DMV Hold: N
Charging Document: Information Mandatory Appearance: Y Amendment #: 0
Case Info
Hearing Info
Release Info
Sentencing
Counts
10 counts found, displaying all counts.1
Seq S/A Violation Date Section Statute OL Violation Plea Plea Date Disposition Dispo Date
1 0 07/16/1998 459/460(a) PC F Burglary 1st Degree-Inhabited Dwelling Dismissed 02/25/2000
2 0 07/16/1998 245(a)(1) PC F Assault with a deadly weapon or force likely to produce great bodily injury GUILTY 01/18/2000 Pled Guilty 01/18/2000
2 1 07/16/1998 12022.7(d) PC F Enhancement-Great Bodily Injury – Domestic Violence Dismissed 02/25/2000
3 0 07/16/1998 273.5(a) PC F Corporal injury – on spouse/cohabitant Dismissed 02/25/2000
3 1 07/16/1998 12022.7(d) PC F Enhancement-Great Bodily Injury – Domestic Violence Dismissed 02/25/2000
4 0 07/16/1998 422 PC F Criminal threats Dismissed 02/25/2000
5 0 07/16/1999 240 PC F Assault Dismissed 02/25/2000
6 0 07/16/1999 422 PC F Criminal threats GUILTY 01/18/2000 Pled Guilty 01/18/2000
7 0 07/16/1999 422 PC F Criminal threats Dismissed 02/25/2000
8 0 07/16/1998 664-187 PC F Attempted murder Dismissed 02/25/2000
Another reading suggestion: Without Conscience- Robert Hare
Hi Blink,
Thanks for your courteous reply. I realise you are all professionals. I’m not even an American. Had just stumbled on the story of the Mcstays disappearance before their remains were found. I formed my conclusion after watching the video of the press announcement. That is just a feeling, the truth will out, hopefully and this will not turn into a cold case. Very sad about the kids especially, so adorable and cuddly. I was wondering how did they suddenly get so rich. I’ve even googled this question. Thanks again for your courtesy. Kind regards, Jennifer
Now you have resorted to schoolyard name calling? Never heard any professional use that lingo. Do you have a name btw? Or do you prefer to hide behind your lame handle? I’m a tool? You have no idea who I am. Your conclusions and theroies are all wrong. You want compassion for the McStays? Hiw about a little for the ones that are still with us? Again, you are a hack. A piker. You know nothing.
Lol, you called me a dummy and a hack and I am the school yard name caller? Seriously, what is your deal?
Yes, I do seek compassion for the McStay’s and I absolutely do not believe you have any- as you have demonstrated on here.
Specifically what do you say about the fact that I am calling you out right here that you lied to members of that family about your record?
Joey McStay was NOT your friend- and if you had an ounce of contrition or integrity you would not be blathering on about you.
You and I both know if I were a hack you never would have bothered to address the piece or post here.
You have lied and attempted to twist the truth about your background since you VOLUNTARILY began posting here and my name is on the top of the site.
I have allowed you an open rebuttal to your stated issues and it occurs to me that continuing to engage your lack of authentic response is a disruption, intended or not.
I wish you the best and I am hopeful your upcoming LE interviews are productive to the investigation and healing to all.
B
Hi Blink,
Sorry, a lot of M’s in this case – MM, *not* his brother. I should have typed MJM.
Also, I don’t doubt your info but surprised to learn that the FBI didn’t become a part of this case until April of this year.
Gracie, thank you very much for taking the time to explain FBI and local LE protocol. I appreciate your sharing your knowledge with me.
I don’t think a murder case has made me this sad and ashamed to be human since the killing of Jessica Lunsford and then Thomas and Jackie Hawks murders.
Thank you again for your blog.
Jessica’s case will haunt me forever. I know you are new here but I have worked on a parallel case to hers and it will stay with me. They all do in some ways but I want to point out- the lack of need to be ashamed to be human. These offenders are devoid of much of their humanity.
B
kjazzyjazz,
I agree with you. DK’s actions belie his claims he was worried about the McStays and did not know where they had gone.
I don’t know about the money laundering rumors but have had a feeling that DK has a substance abuse issue.
Combined with DK’s narcissism, arrogance and deeply envious nature – I feel certain DK was seething with a lot of jealousy towards others, especially Joseph McStay. He coveted the beautiful life Joseph had created for himself and his family.
I might be wrong about everything.
I always had a suspicion that the motive was more about jealousy envy and resenting Joseph McStay’s success, good nature and wonderful family. The only way the murderer can feel they possess what Joseph had was by killing. Taking of money or others possessions was just the cherry on their sadistic sundae. A way to reward their sick sense of entitlement.
I always felt that most killers, although they may steal money and physical possessions, the true motivator is in the destruction of the goodness, love and purity they see in others.
I think family members of the murderer know at least part of the story but have yet to come forward.
Trey- I like your well considered post. I just felt obligated to add that homicidal motivations in general, and in this magnitude, can be more rooted in the giving to the offender by the offender- as opposed to the taking from the victims.
B
Blink, I just wanted to thank you for your professionalism, courtesy to family members, and desire to present only facts to your followers. I have followed this case since seeing it on a show years ago and am heartbroken at the fate of Joey, Summer, Gianni, and Joey Jr. Just the worst case outcome.
To try to follow the investigation and theories in this case, I was following an author in this case and the family websites. Unfortunately, those forums have a negative tone and “fist fights” and name calling between the sites is the norm. I am so appreciative of your efforts to moderate your forum and maintain a positive and productive tone.
Fellow posters, thank you for sharing your thoughts and theories. You all have very nimble investigative minds and have prompted new thoughts and theories for me to ponder. Thank You!
God Bless, and thanks to all.
Thank you Birger and welcome. This case needs all the advocacy it can get.
B
Blink – yes, the email address is correct. Look forward to discussing!
Thank you, Going to ask for your patience as I have a ginormous caseload and backlog. Not what you want to hear I know.
B
Thank you for the book suggestions. I’ll tell Santa. I have one for you: Websleuthing For Dummies. Actually you could write it.
Thanks, no need, I was going to pick up your book, aptly titled- “If you can’t find a home when you first get out of the joint, wreck one.”
B
My interest in this case has always been about getting to the bottom of a crime that resulted in the murder of two innocent children. After all, there is no refuting the fact that the children were innocent.The challenge remains in deciphering what led to their deaths.
When the children disappeared, the immediate response by SDPD was to place a greater responsibility on the parents, and proclaim that the parents had willfully left without a trace. In this way they not only refused to see the parents as victims, they chose to see the children as victims of their partents- refusing to advocate for the children by delving deeper into their parents disappearance and why it had come about. ( As we know,The FBI came into the case as support initially, soon afar the disappearance, because of the children, but that the FBI did not became lead in the investigation until 2013 )
To be clear, to me, this case is about two kids that were murdered, and everyone around them is a supporting player in events that led to their death. PLEASE, I am NOT ascribing BLAME for their deaths to Joseph and Summer!! All four were victims.I am just offering a slight shift in perspective.
I think that perhaps by figuring why the kids were murdered, it may bring more light as to who the killer is.. It could be as simple as the killers didn’t know what to do with the kids, especially kids who had seen too much, or kids who were unexpectedly present at an assignation meant only for Joseph and Summer. It could be a more exacting crime- that the murder of the children was part and parcel of the punishment the perp wanted to dole out on Joseph and Summer. If the murder of two innocent children was intentional, it is fundamentally worth knowing. Imagine if that was the main point of this heinous crime.
Trixie Belden – I’m commenting on your handle since so few people know of the amazing series! Thank you for reminding me!