Kyron Horman Missing: New Years Eve Settlement Ends Horman Marriage
Portland, OR- In a surprise court hearing, Judge Henry Kantor signed off on the agreement between Kaine Horman and Terri Moulton Horman to end their marriage this afternoon.
Details of the agreement have not been released publicly, but according to KGW, a financial settlement to include child support and a lump payment to Terri Horman has been reached.
In what can only be described as a bitter family court feud- the divorce matter was last in court on December 16th to decide if the Horman landscaper, Rodolfo Sanchez Estrada -who alleges Terri Horman tried to hire him to murder Kaine Horman at a lunch meeting – would testify.
Judge Kantor has not yet filed an order from that hearing but Attorneys for Terri Horman were granted a continuance from the pending temporary custody motion scheduled for December 19th and 20th.
BOC Associate Editor Tarin Kenley contributed to this report.
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Re Blinks response
Prt 1
I wrote
Mom3.0 says:
March 21, 2014 at 8:53 pm
My point Blink is that terri was very open with people some casual acquaintances others virtual strangers some not- still she was open about herself her family and their happenings etc
LEs list of people to talk to grew
LE trying to narrow down any and all persons with access or info had a hard job to tackle especially since terri clamed up-
We can debate the issue of whether or not she HAD to- and we can agree that LE is partly to blame in their handling of it all- but the fact remains that without her help LEs job got tougher and the window to gain potentially helpful info that might save Kyron grew shorter.
—
Blink responded:
B “I respectfully disagree with that Mom3.0- You are assuming TMH was not helpful.”
Blink, its more than ok if we disagree but thats not what Im assuming
Let me try to clarify
Kyron disappeared on June 4th
Recalling that night Tony Young said:
Snipped:
“I explained to each person that now our lives are not private any more, that the investigators are going to talk to us, that they’re going to want to know very detailed information about our lives, that our job is to give that and assist with the investigation and give them as much as they need,” Young recalled.
The conversation took place even as search dog teams were scouring the property around the school and volunteers were mobilizing to look for Kyron through the night. Young said he tried to reassure everyone, but Terri protested.
“I told everybody there, this is normal. This is what happens. She [Terri] instantly started to express some displeasure with that and not wanting…feeling like she was persecuted. And I thought that was an unusual reaction that early in that” end snip
from early article no link
So Blink If on the night of June 4th terri was feeling persecuted exactly how forthcoming would she be with details of her life of her childrens lives of her comings and goings etc?
Thats not to say that the info she did give was not helpful
I have no doubt that her info and memories/inside knowledge helped
Such as details like kys clothing- to include underwear and socks his behavior his friends his teachers where and when she dropped him off his demeanor- -
I am sure she supplied LE with info on the days timeline as well as I would hope the familys timeline in the days and weeks before
But as we know from emails and such her times changed, her recall changed- which would have prompted LE to reinterview her- to question her recall-
- She and she alone could supply things which kaine and desiree could not or would not- offering info and details they did not have and could not have
Such as Kaines alleged steroid buying/use and her ratting on the dealer-
( according to De De) kaine was unaware of terris contact with LE anonymously
She was the only parent who seemed to know of the hiring and or accosting of RSE and the other hirings
She was the only parent that seemed to know the severity of Kyrons blacking out episodes
his seizures etc
She definitely was in the sole position to offer this help which her friends were telling her to STOP cooperating and lawyer up
How cooperative and forthcoming could she have been with this warning being given by more than one friend- Shes only human, right, so this advice would have and DID have an impact on her – willingness to talk- to help- to cooperate – to share how could it not?
So she undoubtedly stopped cooperating Leaving LE without her help and having to try and pick up the pieces
Now we know that in addition to LE conducting interviews and polys with terri they were also interviewing and conducting polys on other witnesses as well.
But Unlike terri I would assume they kept talking/cooperating (like De De did even w/counsel)
Some of these witnesses had been given the same warning to stop cooperating and lawyer up-
As kaine w/terri and family lamented in the pres conference:
“Your memories and statements can help us find Kyron.” KH
-
At the very least it seems the advice had to have made them somewhat leary of meeting with LE to poss. take polys and just being as forthcoming as needed
They were much like terri, especially w/ DeDe even to the point of being a Poss POI
Without the means to interview and reinterview and reinterview…How do we expect LE to do their jobs and eliminate avenues and gain helpful info?
We know that the sting was on june 26th
Which means terri being only one of many to be interviewed was only cooperative for less than a month
How much info was shared how much was not?
With all the stress and all the helpful friends giving advice to stop talking, with her feeling persecuted was she able to recall and impart any and all potentially helpful info? on all persons she or Ky may have been in contact with- She was interviewed at least 5 times that we know of- can we be sure some memory or bit of info that may have been needed wasnt given in that time?
Hence my feeling of:
LE trying to narrow down any and all persons with access or info had a hard job to tackle especially since terri clamed up-
We can debate the issue of whether or not she HAD to- and we can agree that LE is partly to blame in their handling of it all- but the fact remains that without her help LEs job got tougher and the window to gain potentially helpful info that might save Kyron grew shorter.
comment #23
http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/12/31/kyron-horman-missing-new-years-eve-settlement-ends-horman-marriage/comment-page-49/#comment-2218553
Cont Prt 2
AJMO
Peace
Prt 2 Blinks response
Blink wrote:
“I patently disagree that she did not do everything possible, and frankly more than I would have without hiring counsel much sooner.”
-
Honestly Blink, I can understand a person hiring counsel but to not then cooperate w/the aid of counsel- thats where i can not understand
How can we know that she did “everything possible”?
She Told everything there was to tell? Remembered all possible pertinent info in those interviews which all took place in less than a month
while under stress? while feeling persecuted, while emailing friends with differing accounts – while blogging on news sites- while having TY and DY and James, her parents and a policeman in her home? While being persued by the press
She Remembered All interactions all FB encounters etc-?
Recalled anything and Everything while worrying about redriving her route- taking care of kitty, who up at least until June 4th had earaches and wsnt sleeping well, while going to the gym,
With all this and the horror of Kys disappearance/absence,she was able to make sure she wracked her brain and shared any and all info no matter how insignificant it may have seemed which may have turned into the piece needed to save Kyron in those times she was interviewed?
She did everything possible?
Yet She refused to give LE her laptop immediately- is that doing everything possible to try and share/find all potential info of who other than family and friends may have came in contact?
For all she knew little Kyron was sneaking onto the internet and befriended some virtual stranger- she couldnt have known whether or not her laptop held the key could she?
Blink she may have thought she was being as helpful as possible- and you seem to feel she was-
She may have answered all Les questions to the best of her ability/recall at the time but whos to say she overlooked something that wouldnt have come to mind with cont cooperation
Even with Les questions to prompt her recall she seemed unable to rememember everything
She didnt immediately mention RS even though expressly asked for anyone who may have wanted to harm-
She didnt immediately recall the hiring of RS because when prompted with “landscaper” she didnt make the connection to yardworker…
Who knows if with the right key word in subsequent interviews if she would have recalled other overlooked forgotten potentially helpful info which perhaps she at that time missed
comment #23
http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/12/31/kyron-horman-missing-new-years-eve-settlement-ends-horman-marriage/comment-page-49/#comment-2218553
AJMO
Cont Prt 3 Peace
Where are you getting she refused to give LE her laptop ever? That is not accurate. They flashed the drive, among other desktops in the home. I have already explained my understanding of the gardener v landscaper designation and Kaine apparently made the same error initially.
Mom 3.0- I am not understanding the comparison between TMH and Casey Anthony. For starters, everything Casey ever said or did was rooted in a lie and her child was never missing. She is a sociopath and pathological liar and very clearly a negligent parent at best. Moreover, LE flat out knew she was lying and as a strategy, out of concern for Caylee, arrested her when it was clear there was a decompositional event in the vehicle.
After I completed the Reid Advanced Training last Fall- you know the first thing I did? With a standing case load and dozens of cases and years later- I listened to that interview at Universal.
It was a textbook case of deceptive markers on a conveyer belt on a loop, lol.
We are going to have to agree to disagree on TMH and what you feel her participation in the investigation was- I firmly believe that she was placed in a position of suspect by LE, continued to cooperate anyway, until such time she felt a crime was committed against her and her home and called 911.
B
Prt 3 Blinks response
comment #23
http://blinkoncrime.com/2013/12/31/kyron-horman-missing-new-years-eve-settlement-ends-horman-marriage/comment-page-49/#comment-2218553
Blink wrote:
“This would include during the time where more than one friend told her to hire counsel and stop cooperating, and TMH herself was very vocal to family about everything that being said to her by LE. I would note that is an indication of a truthful aspect of a targeted subject interview. Is it conclusive, no. But TMH behavior as discussed by those closest to her is more indicative of an innocent person than someone complicite.”
I was not speaking to Terris complicity or lack there of Blink in my March 21 post-
I was trying to convey how it hurt for terri to clam up/stop cooperating – stop sharing info-
LE trying to follow all leads to narrow down any and all persons with access or info had an even harder job to tackle-
LE were unable to reinterview to clear up any misunderstandings and unable to ask further questions
and no matter her reasons this had a negative effect on the case moving forward and may have prevented LE from figuring out the who the what and the why – therefore the window to gain potentially helpful info that might save Kyron grew shorter.
And yes Blink this may have made LE wrongly focus on her as a suspect-
and they hold some of the blame for her silence
- blink I understand and respect yr view on why you think TH behaviors lead you to feel she is more likely truthful/innocent- I agree this could go to show she was not complicit-
But Casey Anthony was just as vocal. (so was her Mom &family)
Casey Anthony sat for a # of interviews
She did not immediately lawyer up either
She told her family and the PI team a great deal about what was being said to her by LE
She was more than helpful going back over her day/s and her timelines
She took LE on her route and all the rest-
Problem was it was all a lie.
So forgive me Blink but terris demeanor and seeming helpfulness does not have to = cooperation or innocence
But my point is Blink- Even with innocence on her side without her Cont help who knows what info details were lost that may have aided Kyron?
Blink wrote:
“We do not know whether she really flunked any polly, or what questions were asked, yet she took 2 and agreed to take 3.”
–
Blink as you know I do not put that much stock in polys- so to me it means little one way or another-
But yes she did and youre right it could go towards her innocence
but you realize and stated it- doesnt have to mean that
as many who are not innocent offer to/take polys – some guilty pass and others flunk
Blink wrote:
“This was after having a deputy in the home for weeks, checking with detectives on every move, and subjecting herself to dozens of hours of police interviews without hiring an attorney where she was flat out told they did not believe her, and that she was lying.”
-
But Blink none of this negates the fact that terri stopped cooperating-
Hours of interviews to include accusations of lying? This happens- It happened to Mark klass and The Ramseys and I would assume to most parents who have a missing/murdered children- its part of the process of moving out of the circle…
and I know I dont need to remind you, of any of this but Im just trying to give an insight into my thought process
We know Casey Anthony was cooperative even taking LE to her job- sitting for interviews w more than 1 detective- even after being told she wasnt telling the truth – and being on the receiving end of good cop bad cop… IIRC before and after hiring an attorney
So that doesnt mean a whole lot, ya know?
Blink wrote:
“Repeatedly, Kaine and Desiree are structuring what they believe is her complicity by not “clearing” herself through further polygraphs- what is ridiculous about that is that is NOT even protocol if in fact she DID flunk any of them. They are useless to this investigation now either way.”
I agree with yr analysis- but must say I can not fault them for feeling this way for if I were a parent in their God awful position I may not be able to recall my intellectual thoughts on the uselessness of polygraphs- the “failure” regardless of factual or not would haunt me.
and as for LE tactics using them as investigative tools lying about failure etc-
It sucks and yes they sometimes do not help part in fact harm
Blink wrote
“What possible usefulness would she offer after all of that?”
IDK B, and she may not know either
despite this she may hold info that could help LE and that is the shame with her no longer cooperating.
Blink Wrote:
“They did not believe her, and apparently still do not.”
This could be Blink, but if theres a chance she may hold some info that could help find Ky or the reasons as to why or how – or offer up a new avenue to pursue a new remembrance or detail /an encounter or other- isnt that wnat it is important? It seems Only with her cont help LE ‘s focus could have moved away sooner
Blink wrote: “What would be useful would be LE admitting there is and was a SZ, and re-interviewing attendees to develop a timeline with that focus.”
I agree- its important- and would only add that if one can see the importance of re-interviewing witnesses with the focus to establish who and how and why (SZ) than cant one see the importance of having terri be re-interviewed also?
Blink:
“What would be useful would be MCSO requesting the FBI take jurisdiction in this case and starting from square one. Won’t happen.”
I agree the FBI or PI would be very helpful in this case- but that would require going back to square one which would mean – to include re-interviewing terri possibly more than 5X- would her 5th amendment rights not be a obstacle to that endeavor?
Blink wrote:
” Can you imagine that meeting? So, let me get this straight, you had a gj return a no true bill based on all the evidence pointing to this woman so you spent an additional 3 years with her in the cross hairs without developing subsequent subject targets?”
It would be touchy- I dont know what happened IRT the Grand juries or in the investigation-but i have no doubt all of LEs missteps and failures would be scrutinized- as they should be -
I am all for anything that will bring Kyron home-
its time for the butt covering to stop on all fronts
Thank you for everything you do to help bring Kyron home Blink and thanks for hearing me out and trying to help me understand where youre coming from.
AJMO
Peace
I recently was Party to a hearing where the mother involved spoke limited English. There were two “interpreters” in the courthouse who gave each other breaks every 15 minutes. The mother insisted that she couldn’t understand the first interpreter due to the fact that the interpreter’s dialect was so different from her own. The second interpreter could not understand everything the judge said. Finally, the judge became (IMO) agitated and asked the SW if the interpreters were “court certified.” The SW said no, that she couldn’t find court certified interpreters in time for the hearing. The judge ended the hearing, a new date was set, and the SW was sternly told to ensure court certified interpreters were present for the next hearing.
I see they are trying to get Nancy Grace to do a update on Kyron
@nelmel
If you noticed he claimed to see Kyron in Rhododendron Or that day
That is a long way from Skyline school
@Malty. Not a “they” wrt NGrace. Whichever one of the Staceys this is
initiated it on twitter 2 days ago.
http://whotalking.com/twitter/pinkspiritgirl
4days ago she threatened “petition” signers.
5 days ago, she can’t spell Trial to save her life imo.
not linking for purpose of reading it, just an example how
mischief starts with 1 person at a time.
OT a Houze murder case
http://www.oregonlive.com/aloha/index.ssf/2014/03/jeffrey_johnson_wore_the_devil.html
a prior OLive article said Johnson was the Court-appointed supervisor of the father’s parenting time.
That would be like Neil H being ordered to supervise Terri in a private unsecure setting.
That analogizes to Powell’s Court-ordered visitation in an inappropriate location.
The other bizarre facts are this case was tried by a Judge whose own 21 yo was also murdered,
and he delivered a personal lecture to defendant trying to convert him to his own religion.
1. Mom3.0 says:
March 21, 2014 at 11:26 pm
1.
SNIP:
I agree it is a huge undertaking to try and safeguard yr family from potential BG while leading yr life which sometimes requires to invite outsiders in…- Its a risk we all take- and it seems you understand that risk for no murderer pedophile rapist thief wears a scarlet letter detailing their intent or their past crimes-
No screening can ensure total safety. i realize this as do you
But knowing these risks would you if you were a mother of small children who was to be alone in the home for an extended period set up the job while yr husband was away- and without his knowledge thereby intensifying the risk of possible dangers to yourself your children and yr home?
Would you despite having access to funds (a separate bank account in yr name-) would you opt to take money from your elderly parents to have the luxury of not washing yr own windows- or keeping up yr own yard- and would you keep the gift/job a secret from yr husband?
If you werent doing all the yard work/house work; windows, mowing of the lawn all by yourself would you lament to others that you were, during a rant about how bad you have it with yr husband?
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
If I were Terri and needed to hire someone for yard work I too would have hired Rudy and crew. Terri was at Skyline a lot, I think she would have assumed that he & his crew were all CORIED by the school before they were allowed to come on the property and work around the school children.
Except for the lawsuit money, it never sounded to me like Terri had her own funds. IMO, Kaine gave her money to run the house but IMO, she had to give him the change w/receipts. She was never given any money of her own to spend as she pleased. Not only was TH raising 3 children, but 3 at very different stages in childhood, combined with the responsibility of taking care of the house, both inside and out, errands, etc. and then there is her education.
If I were married to someone like Kaine, YES I would keep the gift/job a secret from my husband and YES I would rant! Mom 3.0, do you think TH had it good? All her lawsuit money was spent while w/Kaine, he is taking her child support, he is having an affair and she is responsible for maintaining HIS house plus 3 kids.
IMO, Kaine does not like anyone thinking of him as anything less than perfect. He would not have liked TH confiding about all the outside work she was responsible for w/her parents. I think the Moultons were just trying to make their daughters life a little easier and MOO, praying for the day their daughter stood up to her husband.
@NelMel says:
March 23, 2014 at 4:08 pm
Your link takes me to the page and there’s still lots of pics of Kyron. (You do have to be logged into FB.) Interesting story, this guy says he was the last one to see Kyron and he even had on his CSI t-shirt, but says he is being ignored by LE. Hmmmm? Here’s a couple of snips:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/653443601374494/
Tim Latimer I didn’t see his stepmom at the small park I saw-met KYRON at. KYRON seemed to be alone with his friend. But one of the few houses I think he walked to was just across the street.
March 9 at 4:54am · Like
Amy S Hanselman was the step moms truck nearby? when did u give your last report to police?
March 9 at 10:42am · Like
Tim Latimer I spoke to their recorder within the past few months. No reply though. There is much to say that I cannot say easy on the phone. I could tell a person details much easier. I think KYRON may have been the reason GOD had me live in that neighborhood for only about a year. I felt something would happen while I lived there, and something did.
March 9 at 11:51pm · Like · 1
***************
Tim Latimer I’m quite certain I’m the last person who saw him, but the cops don’t think I know anything. I talked to kyron with his friend in Timberline Rim near Brightwood, oregon. I wish the cops would turn to me but no.
December 26, 2013 at 4:56am · Like · 1
Karen Dianne Wood Where is Brightwood and Timberline Rim? I always wondered if Terry saw Kyron go into the classroom and never saw him again, then how did she get the picture of him with his science display? Or was that picture in a different room?
December 26, 2013 at 10:43pm · Like · 1
Tim Latimer Brightwood is near the base of Mt. Hood. And the driveway she may have parked her white truck at had its sewage tank emptied within about a month of Kyron’s disappearance. I think I’m almost dealing with police negligence. So much evidence I had, and they did not seem to care.So many thoughts come back to me. Everyone ignored me! I even asked Kyron what his t-shirt said that day. He was earing a black t-shirt displaying ‘CSI’ Iin green letters !
December 27, 2013 at 2:31am · Like · 1
Tim Latimer I wanted the cops to come out and use dogs to verify. I was ignored.
********
IDK, he sounds like he’s really sure it was Kyron, and says he was with another young boy in a red t-shirt. Quack? Who knows?
ot don’t see Skyline’s principal under contract extensions for next year (approx p40-42)
http://www.pps.k12.or.us/files/board/03-10-14_Final_Packet.pdf
She should’ve been 3rd yr probationary this year. Keefer is there of course, and Porter.
@3.0 wrt “would you if you were a mother of small children who was to be alone in the home for an extended period set up the job while yr husband was away”
He left her lists to do in his absence, not his presence.
@mbs. If the Grand Jury process had integrity as used by Portland DA Office, Fed Judge wouldn’t be teying to keep the Portland Police settlement under a yearly touch-base scrutiny.
—-
My preoccupation with Saed is maybe Engel found her in 2013 via bloggers. but when did Rackner find her (2010 in doing due diligence?), and did she use her to interview RSE in 2010?
Is Engel misleading us that The Firm did not employ Saed to
interview Rudy prior to the depo? Qs Aren’t rhetorical–I’d like to know.
It goes to whether Saed is an advocate for Kaine, Rackner’s client, and had any prior contact with Rudy pre-depo, or in 2010, and whether she has followed Kyron’s abduction and has anti-Terri feelings, rather than being a neutral translator. She is literate & likely well-read. Had she preformed opinions? Also, she runs. 5k anyway. Underhill runs, in a club. Kaine has held runs. Has she done a BKH run? Just avenues of inquiry. My concern is if Rackner used her as an acquaintance from social circles to interview Rudy in 2010, then said why don’t you go get certified in 2011.
@Rose
I heard from change.org today and they wanted to know if they had solved my problem
I said no they took me off but shows I am still on plus my stupid thing I wrote
I told them I think they should checked out the situation before the petition was drawn up
And the stalking
I would say no to anything Change.org next time
@Rose
They is Roseburg supports team plus World what ever
Over on Olive all my posts get rejected so I quit using names. It is they
So far so good
@erose/blink. that is what the whole controversy on Portland pulling out of the Terrorism Task Force was originally.
Former lical ire on which the pullout was based, was that Portland line level supervisory knowledge (Mayor who was PD Commissioner) of the TF activities had no need to know, thus no clearance. Issue was need-to-know. Fed TF stance was Police Comish of detailed PPB had no need to know. Given previous TTFs Constitutional abuses, that didn’t sit well with past Mayors. I guess FBI thinks Hales will swallow it. I wonder what Obama (or Wyden, or Merkyl) traded to Kitz or local leaders to get them to rejoin the TF?
That T. Latimer has about 3 pages only one is about Kyron or was
Did you read all the commits about how he wanted to talk to Kaine
Comments I mean
I’m with you T.Ruth….this Tim Latimer’s story should be checked. Crazy or not….it’s a lead, he saw with Kyron with some kid….get a description of the kid & try to find out who it could be…what do they have to lose? It’s another rock to look under….
Rose
There is a lot of discussion about the amount of work that TH was doing in maintaining the house. She did have James in the home during that time. He would have been 13 or 14. I know times have changed and children are not given the chore work load of my generation. Cleaning the gutters and washing windows along with mowing the grass are things that a boy that age can do.
Or was James like the son of a neighbor in Houston where every time he had to do something around the house, he immediately claimed to have a headache so he could get out of the job. He took his cues from his father who did nothing around the house. If that kid was mine he would have had much more than a headache. The mother allowed him to get away with it.
just a follow-up
wrt “Reese, the assistant chief of investigations, the lieutenant of the Criminal Intelligence Unit and all officers assigned to the unit have been granted “secret” clearance by the FBI. One member is in the final step of obtaining his clearance.
Hales has not reapplied for the clearance and is waiting to meet the new special agent in charge, who starts at the end of this month, Haynes said.”
Rees & ADAs have clearances processed because as prosecutors they must see evidence of coming cases & actual cases in a prosecutorial role. (Aside, we already know entrapment is a cool technique to this Shop.)
The past controvery before the pullout, the stumbling point to rejoining, is the FBI–who “Clears”– absolutely refused to let anyone in an Executive Branch supervisory role (say Mayor the P Comish, or Reese the head) have a clearance thus precluding them from knowing a damn thing about the cases being worked and processes & methods used that Portland’s PB employees were detailed to work on. That left said employees acting under TTF orders only, exposing the City coffers to bigtime founded tort suits by their employees activities if they were untoward. Idk why Portland rejoined unless PPB Chief or Mayor was guaranteed Clearance barring personal failings.
@mom3.0
We all read what Michael Cook ex wife said about him. It may still on the web
I do not think he is a good guy. And he took it on him self to push
Right in to the family with food and coke.
No I do not think he is nice
You can read up on him and decide what you think
I just meant he was not a stranger. But yes he was strange you are right about that
Rose
I totally agree on your point about the task force using people and keeping the Mayor and Police Commissioner in the dark because of lack of clearance. That should have been stopped the minute the FBI tried to use PPD personnel in any of their work. If clearance could not be obtained, then there should be zero monies or work hours assigned to PPD people. Something is not right in this scene.
Mom3.0
In your analysis of work done around the home as a quote from TH that the blackberry bushes were gone and it took two loads to the dump to get rid of them. IMO she had very little blackberry bushes, Maybe fifty feet if they would fit into two loads in a pickup bed.
Kaine’s statement about Terri flirting at the Gym or other activity could have been just a conversation with a male. Kaine IMO is a control freak and if she spoke to someone without his permission his twisted thinking would immediately make something out of it.
OT 2 background articles:
2005, http://aclu-or.org/content/city-portland-withdraws-jttf-2005
“…the primary roadblock was the Justice Department’s refusal to allow the Portland City Attorney to apply for a security clearance or to assure Mayor Potter that he and Police Chief Derrick Foxworth would have access to the same information as the Portland police officers on the Task Force.”
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/17/nation/la-na-portland-terror-20110217
Looks like FBI is giving half the pie in practice–clearance to prosecutors, but still no local oversight.
O/T: Maybe they gave it to Uncle Billy to deposit?
B
@Malty imo you never write anything stupid. & don’t worry about fruitcakes.
I thought about you calling Roseburg PD to report an online arson threat in their jurisdiction.
It seems to me if a person reads an explicit threat of a crime involving bodily harm and knows the person has previously acted out threats at that location, calling was responsible. imo only.
My own cure is not to read those sites except distanced like whotalking which covers little. I’m not
signing in for Latimer, but he shoulda used the name Tina when calling, accompanied by a pic of a blonde belle if he wanted a call back.
Cook may have been motivated by his own son, after seeing KH
lose his son, to enroll in treatment & improve.
He has an open FB page with allusions that direction.
Iirc he was a community theatre actor; handy in Terri interface.
Blink, My take on the FBI/Mayor sitch as one of the articles stated, it had to do with Portland’s nonparticipation in the terror task force, though I think they started to cooperate again in 2011. I wonder if MCSO is tight with the FBI and PPD is not. Is this why DY was glad MCSO took the case and not PPD? I do think it does tie in to IA probe, as you said. For whatever reason, there is a turf war, IMO, and I can’t help but wonder what role politics played in Kyron’s case. Additionally, the comment that the mayor would reapply or whatever when the new bureau chief assumes his position was also a tell for me.
Agreed. I think for me, I go back to the random “detectivizing” with no credentials in place for that path I could find. The thing is, without a substantially high profile case- none of this is noticed it seems.
I attended a CLE lecture this week in which one of the professors ( State Court Judge) denied that there is a such thing as a “CSI” effect- in stark contrast with another presenter. While she was quite engaging, and argument was compelling, this is an example of how it is a very real situation. It starts at the onset of any criminal matter when we are dealing with high profile, imo.
B
Malty says:
March 22, 2014 at 5:50 pm
@Redrose I had to laugh about what you said about Kaine
I can’t see the attraction but I only see him on TV so maybe in person he is very charming and sexy
For him to ask for threesomes seems like joking around to me
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
know what you mean. during that one presser in which I participated, he didn’t seem particularly charming but he does have very pretty eyes.
Yep. I should read all comments, then post.
Rose says:
March 24, 2014 at 10:23 pm
I really don’t know how Terri can just stand while they keep saying meaner and meaner stuff about her and to her on line. And it has been continuous for at least 31/2 years I don’t know if I could handle it
Maybe she didn’t do all the work she claimed or give credit to others. Does it mean anything
She ranted all the time according to Kaine after she had Kiara so she was probably in a rant
I have to do everything was one of my fav rants. To get people to feel sorry She might as well forget it
It doesn’t work. All I got was more work
Malty says:
March 22, 2014 at 5:43 pm
@Rose
I did spend a lot of time on English – Spanish sites yesterday. Trying to see what Rudy understood
That was really confusing
I worked with and job trained a lot of Hispanic people. There was always a big difference in what I said and what they understood I said.
———————————–
agreed. there is a great case in point running at the moment with the “Oscar Pistorious Trial”. much arguing in court over what the court translator is translating. sometimes in the first week of the trial she paraphrased what the witness said. also she had a lot of trouble with the differing dialects. some of the words from the different dialects are very much the same sound – but mean something very very different.
one of the crime scene photographers actually stopped and said to the judge he would rather continue giving evidence in english (not his preferred language) to make sure there was no confusion over his testimony.
its just as well that trial is a Judge only verdict. a jury would be hard pushed to stay awake.
Excellent Point Albalass. I don’t think the translation aspects of a deposition carry as much weight as they would in say a criminal trial or proceeding ( gj testimony, sting) but I am now of the strong opinion that the DEA agent used in the RSE sting was there to act as an interpreter and therefore “handler”.
I have had some recent experience with primarily Spanish speaking folks while in Mexico. I am honest- but embarrassed to say outside of about a dozen phrases and a few random words- I speak almost no Spanish and understand even less. I will leave that to those of you experts on here. My point is, on several occasions, having struck up conversations with the locals to the extent we were able, my take away was that if RSE language grasp and TMH ( I knew in advance due to an interview with a family member that RSE spoke very little English)- I am still flabbergasted that the MFH accusation was levied at all.
Here’s a beaut- a receptionist was trying to ask me if I cared for hand sanitizer- I could not understand her and I finally just said no thank you to whatever she was saying and when our concierge ( fluent bi-lingual) came around the corner I asked him. He said O.. to kill what lives. He was referring to germs- but you get the idea.
How was this information gleaned in the first place- some sort of charades game?
B
And I see no reason to be honest with a man who is paying attention to some else, up at 5am to go to the gym. And is doing something with steroids
The relationship was not working very well, looks like no one was honest.
Malty says:
March 24, 2014 at 2:10 am
@nelmel
If you noticed he claimed to see Kyron in Rhododendron Or that day
That is a long way from Skyline school
**********
Rhododendron is one of the places listed as David A. Durham living in at some time.
*******
http://www.intelius.com/results.php?ReportType=1&searchform=&qf=David&qn=Durham
I stumbled on a Comment on serial killers:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Keyes
“Keyes planned murders long ahead of time and took extraordinary action to avoid detection. Unlike most serial killers, he did not have a victim profile. He always killed far from home, and never in the same area twice. On his murder trips, he kept his mobile phone turned off and paid for items with cash. He had no connection to any of his victims. In the Currier murders, he flew to Chicago, and there rented a car to drive the 1000 additional miles to Vermont. He then used the murder kit he had hidden two years earlier to perform the murders.[21]”
So if Kyron’s was a “serial killer,” is it standard he would have had a “victim profile” in advance?
I have no information that SZ is a “serial killer”. It is my educated belief that if Kyron’s abduction was in fact sexually motivated, we need to look at the profile of serial pedophiles who abduct.
I posted a link as did some others as well regarding some studies and assays a few times, and I stand behind them – as being unable to exclude that type of offender.
To your point Rose- YES. The offender has a victim profile in mind, as it relates to the fantasy portion of his program.
O/T, perhaps: Keyes is an anomaly amongst serial killers- to reference Roy Hazelwood- the exception can always be the rule in this regard. His confession is one example of a successful interview/interrogation that should be noted.
B
not so OT
perhaps Blink refers to the cinematic drama in last 2 paras of p1 here http://www.filmsite.org/itsa2.html
power & control of city institutions.
who best serves the public interest in Portland? An elected Mayor, or civil service ADAs in Rees’ unit in DA Office.
Apparently every ADA in his Unit is getting a clearance, but not the Mayor (the former 2005 Mayor had been the Police Chief), not the Police Chief Supervisor of the Detalled officers. Keep in mind some of Rees’ unit must be new grad hires in their first job like Moawad who was on Kyron, & untested professionally.
Rees (Potter?) has had his unit’s power & control in city affairs enhanced. Mayor, Commissioners (who seem to spend their time on pet interests), and Police Chief have zip oversight wrt serious FBI/DOJ investigations involving major threats to citizens in their city, using the city’s police resources. To be crass, kind of like a municipal neuter job.
Kind of reminds me of Adams trying to get the word out to the public There Was A Man, while Rees squelches public notice.
wrt “I am still flabbergasted that the MFH accusation was levied at all.”
There is, and has been for Shrunk’s reign imo, an out-of-oversight DA’s Office in practice, which does political hires like the progeny of State legislators who go on to political appointments (ie the attorney who handled Kyron there), has little accountablity, & spanks Judges & bars them as needed from important criminal cases.
on the one hand, the DOJ/FBI recently elevated Rees and his under-supervisees in hus Unit over the Police Chief & Mayor, disabling the latter’s oversight, while on the other hand the local Field Office must plan to use the local DA Unit and work them on “cases.”
I believe the specious mfh from this squirrelly, selfinterested source was perpetuated in the Civil matter, but did not progress to a criminal charge, not because the DA’s office is professional, or because Houze was hired (DA Office often bests him), but simply because of unusual heightened public scrutiny of DA Office/LE activities in the matter.
Where is George?
On the bridge still, apparently.
B
There is another aspect of dealing with hispanics in schools and the workplace. Malty probably figured this out in her experience too. Because they do not understand, they will not accept instruction from an American citizen unless they have great respect for the person.
One of the most common and rude things they will do is to begin speaking in Spanish to one another in order to conceal their thoughts from those who cannot understand the language.
For eight years I taught music in the schools. I was the trouble shooter and would take a child that was having difficulty with their instrument into a practice room to work with them one on one. I found that as long as I was there working with hispanic children, they would make an attempt to follow my instruction. When they returned to the group, they often just went back to doing the same thing that caused the problem in the first place. It apparently was a cultural thing that was based on them being identified as not meeting expectations. They didn’t like it and were not going to change.
@erose. wrt to “new bureau chief.@ This is at least the 4th since Kyron & since Balizan carried on “rejoin” talks after his appointment in 2009ff. There was Balizan who personally was at PR Conferences getting his mug on camera until about the time of the Sting. Followed after his retirement by a man out of Chicago Office. Followed by this guy (or maybe 1 invetween). So the “new” Field Off Dir is no4. With that revolving door since 2010, imo FBI locals have little power, even as to “spec agent in charge.”
Malty says:
March 25, 2014 at 1:13 am
(snipped)
She ranted all the time according to Kaine after she had Kiara so she was probably in a rant
I have to do everything was one of my fav rants. To get people to feel sorry She might as well forget it
It doesn’t work. All I got was more work
——————————-
Malty – I love your comments. This one reminds me of an old Hoyt Axton song: “Work your fingers to the bone – whadda ya get? boney fingers – boney fingers”
So true.
grasshopper says:
March 25, 2014 at 12:29 am
Malty says:
March 22, 2014 at 5:50 pm
@Redrose I had to laugh about what you said about Kaine
I can’t see the attraction but I only see him on TV so maybe in person he is very charming and sexy
For him to ask for threesomes seems like joking around to me
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
know what you mean. during that one presser in which I participated, he didn’t seem particularly charming but he does have very pretty eyes.
———————–
Maybe the $10,000 he carries around in his pocket helps?
ot So with Rees & all his ADA criminal unit supervisees getting Clearance for TTF work that even the Police Chief & Mayor can’t be processed for, I wonder what big time “terrorism” case is near to being filed at the State level, not the Fed level?
It has to be a JTTF endeavor, however, I have seen some backdoor state v Fed work in the steroid area in the past.
B
Ode says:
March 25, 2014 at 7:52 am
Malty says:
March 24, 2014 at 2:10 am
@nelmel
If you noticed he claimed to see Kyron in Rhododendron Or that day
That is a long way from Skyline school
**********
Rhododendron is one of the places listed as David A. Durham living in at some time.
*******
Interesting. I found out why I couldn’t see the group page. My browser was acting up and I was seeing FB pages superimposed on each other, and then that occurred on Twitter too. I can see the page now after purging my cache.
Hey, who knows, maybe ¨Tim Latimer¨ is David Durham. At this point in this case I’m willing to believe the craziest things.
And Sam didn’t challenge it.
Rose says:
March 25, 2014 at 10:10 am
snip>
Kind of reminds me of Adams trying to get the word out to the public There Was A Man, while Rees squelches public notice.
blink- Are you really going to let ATG’s 03/25/14 10:41 comment stand. It is an insulting generalization.
mamaroots- if you have an issue with a post, kindly quote the excerpts and your respectful response indicating your objection or insult.
B
@Truth “quack or…” there was a s.o. arrested around mt hood around the time shortly after kyrons disappearance wasn’t there? and he had abducted a boy. I dunno how my memory is, but I bring it up because the lack of le investigating possible sightings makes me furious
RE TGF
You wrote:
Mom3.0
In your analysis of work done around the home as a quote from TH that the blackberry bushes were gone and it took two loads to the dump to get rid of them. IMO she had very little blackberry bushes, Maybe fifty feet if they would fit into two loads in a pickup bed.
Kaine’s statement about Terri flirting at the Gym or other activity could have been just a conversation with a male. Kaine IMO is a control freak and if she spoke to someone without his permission his twisted thinking would immediately make something out of it.
—-
Greetings and Salutations TGF
Thank you for weighing in with yr very astute thoughts on the land, the tractor and the work
Thanks to Georgiadad as well-
I appreciate it- and read each with great interest
Yes I agree, and I can see how both were control freaks and both flirted nd seem to be extroverts to the max-
Terri with her rearranging the longterm teachers classroom and throwing away materials- and with putting the bookshelf w/ books in the rain-
and kaine, with his overly helpful lists, and working to help her with losing weight
Im sure both had their share of times of twisted thinking as well- its easy to do so when the marriage is one where each does not take the time and energy to hear the others thoughts feelings and concerns.
AJMO Peace
Re Malty
You wrote:
Malty says:
March 25, 2014 at 2:23 am
And I see no reason to be honest with a man who is paying attention to some else, up at 5am to go to the gym. And is doing something with steroids
The relationship was not working very well, looks like no one was honest.
—-
I would think terri felt much the same as you- and that is why her speaking and continuing to cooperate long after the hiring of houze would have been important to Kys case-
For if she wasnt speaking to Kiane and kaine was unaware and both were being dishonest with oneanother, LE would have needed to sort thru it all her truth his truth and the truth…
who could have imparted LE with the knowledge she wasnt sharing with kaine if not for terri herself and vice versa
AJMO Peace
Re Malty says:
March 25, 2014 at 1:13 am
I really don’t know how Terri can just stand while they keep saying meaner and meaner stuff about her and to her on line. And it has been continuous for at least 31/2 years I don’t know if I could handle it
Maybe she didn’t do all the work she claimed or give credit to others. Does it mean anything
She ranted all the time according to Kaine after she had Kiara so she was probably in a rant
I have to do everything was one of my fav rants. To get people to feel sorry She might as well forget it
It doesn’t work. All I got was more work
____
Great posts malty
It only means something if she over exaggerated in her rants to which so many are holding as evidence of kaines a—hole ness
It only means something if some overly helpful unknown person was reading the same rants and felt so sorry for her because of kaines perceived A–holio nature that they took it upon themselves to get back at kaine by taking Kyron when the opportunity presented itself…the sins of the father visited upon his son…
It only means something if she hired out for the wrk and one of those persons with knowledge of the property home etc used it to their advantage much like the offender in the Elizabeth Smart case
It only matters if terri was unable to impart all possible pertinent info to LE before the month of June was over and her cooperation stopped.
AJMO
Peace
Re-Malty says:
March 24, 2014 at 10:48 pm
@mom3.0
We all read what Michael Cook ex wife said about him. It may still on the web
I do not think he is a good guy. And he took it on him self to push
Right in to the family with food and coke.
No I do not think he is nice
You can read up on him and decide what you think
I just meant he was not a stranger. But yes he was strange you are right about that
—
Yes i agree with you she trusted him and he seems to have taken advantage of that trust-
She was very open with him and he took advantage of that-
She seems to be a bad judge of character and that could be a problem as she is very extroverted and open with all details of her life
Terri seems to be flirtatious- de de commented on it as well-
Before june 26th and the Sting before junne 30th and the hiring of Houze and the end to Terris cooperation
was Terri able to wrack her brain in such a stressful time while feeling persecuted on Blogs etc was she able to remember all persons to which she may have innocently flirted- was she able to remember all interactions and share this info with LE- or did a few persons who were not friends and family slip her overburdened mind?
Much ;like RS did
Were LE able to interview her regarding SZ and any other POI before the month was thru was she able to recall all info regarding herself and KY and share it?
Ehat about any POIs that may have came to light after June 26th?30th?
I hope so cause
IDK it seems they never got another chance to ask nor to clear up any misunderstandings or delve deeper into what terri may have forgotten in those interviews she did sit for-…
and if so that certainly could have had a negative impact on Kys case moving forward, how could it not?
AJMO Peace
Re Rose says:
March 24, 2014 at 9:51 pm
@3.0 wrt “would you if you were a mother of small children who was to be alone in the home for an extended period set up the job while yr husband was away”
He left her lists to do in his absence, not his presence.
—
It seems he did write to do lists yr right- they may have been very overbearing lists or loving helpful reminders perhaps each was different IDK
but because he did do this
it seems TH may have chose to hire out for the luxury of not doing the work herself
and if she did this with the windows and possibly gutters perhaps with RS then it seems that the # of people LE needed to run down grew-
Was Terri able to recall and share all these occurrences before her June 30th hiring of House and her end to sharing info?
IDK I hope so
AJMO Peace
MBS. Yeah that is a good one boney fingers. I use to say. Work my butt off and hubby would say well you have plenty left
I spent the eve over on Monkeys reading about Rudy. I saw lots of posts by you and Erose looking for him
Erose was using that long name She used then It was interesting you people sure gave it a lot of effort
What I was looking for was when Terri. Hired Rudy Some one posted Nov was when she hired Rudy. I was surprised. Clearing Blackberries in Nov. so I went to see when to get rid of blackberries. I couldn’t find that but more than one site says get a goat or a hog is the easy way LOL
I guess Blackberries live 25 yrs and to completely get rid of them takes 3 yrs so Kaine may be doing it now