Hannah Graham Body Located: Sources Say Tip Led To Her Recovery
Breaking News: The body of Hannah Elizabeth Graham has been recovered.
Press Conference involving multiple agencies to be held momentarily.
Thoughts and prayers are with Hannah, her family and friends this evening.
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http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/2014/11/25/rape-allegations-uva-rolling-stone-board-of-visitors-to-speak/70079210/
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I am not sure how I feel about this. I have grown to appreciate Chief Lango…I do not want him to be stifled by the politics of UVA yet this seems like a big step by the University. I am probably not the first to post this here but I sure do want to know what you think about this.
What do I think about this?
http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/2014/11/25/rape-allegations-uva-rolling-stone-board-of-visitors-to-speak/70079210/
Chief Longo is a prince to attempt to educate UVA policymakers, to assure them of his PD’s cooperation, and to allude to expecting the same in return from U Security Dept.
The BoV has some (or more than some) political appointees who govern from personal kneejerk reaction and have no understanding academic institutional governance.
At my dau’s State U, in what I consider a town like Charlottesville in size, but a much larger U, I see the city PD & campus security work seamlessly. Not a criminal incident goes by in the adjacent town area or on campus of sexual assault or robbery but that she gets an email notification from the U immediately giving particulars & location. There are plenty of emails. The UVA Pres was Provost at this U. She can reform the institution if given Board support. (To the latter, I say McDonnell will be reelected Gov first).
So here is what is weird Rose- UVA crimes on grounds do not fall under Cville PD jurisdiction- although not on grounds or U housing might- so Longo would certainly be a prudent guest. I have admitted my personal copcrush on him and the way he handled the Graham case in stark contrast with how Harrington’s was handled (although I will admit at VSP direction some Cville PD activity was in play.)
Gibson is the Chief at UVA PD. While learning about UVA’s PD operations years ago- it struck me that a sex assault report to “the internals” did NOT get reported under Clery and I wrote about it’s abuses. I want to say Dean Grover posted here as well.
So I am suggesting Longo’s appearance was strategic PR, but also end runs any questions of UVA PD.
B
@ATG. I don’t think Title IX the basis, and that organization of U disciplinary goverance likely
has existed from ages back, probably instituted due to U Pres or Deans making unilateral decisions without due process. Meaning, as long as there is some due process afforded prior to discipline or expulsion, the U is covered from that cause of action by a disgruntled, discipline student.
a great shirt finding review. The finder also suggests “attention” motivated shirt placement.
http://www.readthehook.com/67960/pantera-find-shirt-15th-street-was-morgan-harringtons
@Blink, Is it true the shirt was found on frat row & amidst student housing comcentrations?
What do you think of Norma & “the West Lawn”?
Many comments are informative, but this one is especially, Sean April 21st, 2010 | 1:17pm
It seems like at least 2 were aware of this abduction, with JLM being one.
No, was not on frat row- was on bush outside entrance of apt 15th &Grady. I would say the majority of which was student housing (off campus) but not all.
I think Ms. Parsons believes she saw Morgan or someone closely matching her description, but I am suspect of her motivations as I know she was released from a security position on grounds at one time- AND- made an appearance at a public search site once again adamant and attempted to sway search opinions- and some other investigative details I can’t get into because I don’t know if they are relevant.
B
I just had a wild outer space idea.
Is it possible JLM, deviant that he was,
and in need of $, was a paid procurer
of lone at-risk female student types
for some group, frat or otherwise?
When he landed a fish, he delivered
but shared the meal? And disposed of the
fish bones to be uber crass. I guess I’m
suggesting JLM in a
semi-organized servant/participant role.
His cell records at times of
abductions will be interesting.
Rose
You are probably correct about the review board at UVA not having a long history. I am researching the history of Title IX to look at how it was legislated and rules and regulations were determined. We should remember that UVA was a male only university for a very long time, being changed to co-ed after the 1950′s.
Finding the origin of the UVA review board and it’s operation, may be a little more difficult. I say this because of the long tenure of certain administrative people who had the propensity of keeping things away from the public view.
I think that your speculation that JM may have been a procurer of young women for dollars has some possibility. However, if that was the case, I think foresics should have found other DNA and it may. However, LE has not shared this with the public if that is true.
I hope your speculation is not true because if it is, we have a much more ugly situation than previously. I thought this during the Morgan Harrington case and posted about it. The burning house was the original trigger for me. Now we have the information that the DNA was found on the (inside?) of the Metalica shirt that Morgan wore indicating that it was protected for a period of time from the weather.
If your thoughts about procurement of young women are true, then we also have the possibility of a tie-in with the Taylor case. He spoke about a black male with dreadlocks being apart of the interaction.
Rose, [November 27, 2014 at 8:19 am] I have wondered the same thing.
We can only hope LE is serious as all get out and won’t leave a stone unturned or a perp (no matter who or how connected he/she is) without investigation and prosecution. The media has long been trying to make SM, AE, Asphyxiation, etc. stylish…but some decadent over-privileged, powerful people go beyond that to torture, mayhem and murder. They become fixated and lose their humanity and their consciences. (Look up phrase ‘without natural affection’ in Bible)
“If JM didn’t plant Morgan’s shirt himself, it means that someone else did it and had knowledge of the abduction and her murder. If that turns out to be true, I hope that LE can identify that person or persons and bring them to justice.”
On what basis would you bring such a person ” to justice.” I’m talking about someone having simple knowledge or suspicion — not someone who aided and abetted.
“I am continuing to dig for details regarding Title IX regarding the authority that gives College administrations the ability to create disciplinary panels that become prosecution, judge and jury regarding assaults and rapes on their campus.
So far it appears there is no such authority under Title IX. If that turns out to be fact, then they have circumscribed the law and everything they do or have done in the past is null and void.”
UVa is a state institution. The Virginia General Assembly has granted the Board of Visitors broad powers to run the University, (Virginia Code sections 23-164.6 & 23-9.2:3), and to establish its own police force (Virginia Code section 23-232. Further, disciplinary matters may be conducted by closed meetings (Virginia Code section 2.2-3711 A. 2.)
According to the famous April 4, 2011 “Dear Colleague” Letter from the US Department of Education:
“If a student files a complaint with the school, regardless of where the conduct occurred, the school must process the complaint in accordance with its established procedures.”
“Regardless of whether a harassed student, his or her parent, or a third party files a complaint under the school’s grievance procedures or otherwise requests action on the student’s behalf, a school that knows, or reasonably should know, about possible harassment must promptly investigate to determine what occurred and then take appropriate steps to resolve the situation. As discussed later in this letter, the school’s Title IX investigation is different from any law enforcement investigation, and a law enforcement investigation does not relieve the school of its independent Title IX obligation to investigate the conduct. The specific steps in a school’s investigation will vary depending upon the nature of the allegations, the age of the student or students involved (particularly in elementary and secondary schools), the size and administrative structure of the school, and other factors. Yet as discussed in more detail below, the school’s inquiry must in all cases be prompt, thorough, and impartial. In cases involving potential criminal conduct, school personnel must determine, consistent with State and local law, whether appropriate law enforcement or other authorities should be notified.
Schools also should inform and obtain consent from the complainant (or the complainant’s parents if the complainant is under 18 and does not attend a postsecondary institution) before beginning an investigation. If the complainant requests confidentiality or asks that the complaint not be pursued, the school should take all reasonable steps to investigate and respond to the complaint consistent with the request for confidentiality or request not to pursue an investigation. If a complainant insists that his or her name or other identifiable information not be disclosed to the alleged perpetrator, the school should inform the complainant that its ability to respond may be limited.
The school also should tell the complainant that Title IX prohibits retaliation, and that school officials will not only take steps to prevent retaliation but also take strong responsive action if it occurs.
As discussed in the 2001 Guidance, if the complainant continues to ask that his or her name or other identifiable information not be revealed, the school should evaluate that request in the context of its responsibility to provide a safe and nondiscriminatory environment for all students. Thus, the school may weigh the request for confidentiality against the following factors: the seriousness of the alleged harassment; the complainant’s age; whether there have been other harassment complaints about the same individual; and the alleged harasser’s rights to receive information about the allegations if the information is maintained by the school as an “education record” under the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA), 20 U.S.C. § 1232g; 34 C.F.R. Part 99.15”
http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/letters/colleague-201104.pdf
One should note that the investigation of sexual misconduct and/or violence is conducted with a lesser standard than used in a criminal trial; often, more likely than not that the activity occurred. Some have complained that such a standard is not appropriate for such a serious matter. In a criminal trial a beyond a reasonable doubt standard is used. Some have expressed other due process concerns with the procedure.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324600704578405280211043510
UVa set up a separate sexual misconduct board to deal with these issues because both the Honor Committee and the Judiciary Committee use a beyond a reasonable doubt standard. The Sexual Misconduct Board supposedly uses a preponderance of the evidence standard.
http://www.cavalierdaily.com/article/2013/10/student-self-governance-sexual-assault
Nov. 5th – Nov. 11th ……. who is manipulating the Nov. 11th date on the t-shirt find .. and why? That would have to be some one inside LE; right?
Thanks for your links starbucks regarding the university.
Since the university has no formal recognized civil or criminal court system, and the crime of rape is a state criminal felony, then they have zero business doing anything regarding an alleged rape other that assisting LE when requested and providing council to the victim.
The County Attorney is the one to determine if there is sufficient evidence to prosecute a person for rape, not some school sexual assault board. The school is chartered by the state, but it is not an independent entity regarding state laws.
The found shirt inspired this search?
Thursday, November 05, 2009
Searching for Morgan Harrington: Parents ask for weekend help
Dan and Gil Harrington are calling on volunteers to take part in a three-day search for their missing daughter.
http://ww2.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/225125
In the reverse erose. It was only known to a few insiders before it was publicly announced that there was going to be a search the following weekend- but it was not announced where that search was going to take place per se. ( at least not until the 5th). It is my opinion that shirt was placed there to keep the search in downtown Cville as opposed to the Rt 29 corridor It was conducted in the downtown area
That said, the family was not told about the shirt for weeks.
B
A Texas Grandfather says:
November 29, 2014 at 12:28 am
Thanks for your links starbucks regarding the university.
Since the university has no formal recognized civil or criminal court system, and the crime of rape is a state criminal felony, then they have zero business doing anything regarding an alleged rape other that assisting LE when requested and providing council to the victim.
The County Attorney is the one to determine if there is sufficient evidence to prosecute a person for rape, not some school sexual assault board. The school is chartered by the state, but it is not an independent entity regarding state laws.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ATG, I could not agree with you more.
Ditto- this needs to change. Maybe the pending Clery investigations will help with that endeavor. You know what study I would like to see? I would like to see a study of prior accused persons of sexual assault that were handled by the University, which ultimately did not result in criminal charges and whether or not that individual repeated the offense, or any other criminal offenses since being “let off the hook” from a criminal perspective. Oh wait- I know one subject outcome already- Jesse Leroy Matthew.
B
regarding “high stress situation motivating shirt placement.” House in the vicinity of Anchorage Farm which was about to get burned down? An escalating conflict in play between parties two months before Morgan’s body was found? Hmmmm.
ATG,
I apologize for lacking the time to fully address your comment. I cited Virginia law to support the notion that Virginia universities have the right to hold disciplinary hearings and discipline their students. I don’t know of any university that lacks that right. At no time did I suggest that such a right was in lieu of criminal prosecution by the Commonwealth.
Title IX is a federal law that basically states, “No person in the United States shall, on the basis of gender, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving federal financial assistance.” The federal government takes the position that, “Sexual harassment of students, which includes acts of sexual violence, is a form of sex discrimination prohibited by Title IX.”
Title IX REQUIRES universities to investigate such matters, hence the Sexual Misconduct board. Please see the letter cited above. Again, such hearings are NOT in LIEU of criminal prosecution by the Commonwealth.
Quote from the letter: “As discussed later in this letter, the school’s Title IX investigation is different from any law enforcement investigation, and a law enforcement investigation does not relieve the school of its independent Title IX obligation to investigate the conduct.”
Here is a summary of a school’s obligations under Title IX:
“What are a school’s responsibilities to address sexual harassment and sexual violence?
•A school has a responsibility to respond promptly and effectively. If a school knows or reasonably should know about sexual harassment or sexual violence that creates a hostile environment, the school must take immediate action to eliminate the sexual harassment or sexual violence, prevent its recurrence, and address its effects.
•Even if a student or his or her parent does not want to file a complaint or does not request that the school take any action on the student’s behalf, if a school knows or reasonably should know about possible sexual harassment or sexual violence, it must promptly investigate to determine what occurred and then take appropriate steps to resolve the situation.
•A criminal investigation into allegations of sexual harassment or sexual violence does not relieve the school of its duty under Title IX to resolve complaints promptly and equitably.
What procedures must a school have in place to prevent sexual harassment and sexual violence and resolve complaints?
•Every School Must Have And Distribute A Policy Against Sex Discrimination
◦Title IX requires that each school publish a policy that it does not discriminate on the basis of sex in its education programs and activities. This notice must be widely distributed and available on an on-going basis.
◦The policy must state that inquiries concerning Title IX may be referred to the school’s Title IX coordinator or to OCR.
•Every School Must Have A Title IX Coordinator
◦Every school must designate at least one employee who is responsible for coordinating the school’s compliance with Title IX. This person is sometimes referred to as the Title IX coordinator. Schools must notify all students and employees of the name or title and contact information of the Title IX coordinator.
◦The coordinator’s responsibilities include overseeing all complaints of sex discrimination and identifying and addressing any patterns or systemic problems that arise during the review of such complaints.
•Every School Must Have And Make Known Procedures For Students To File Complaints Of Sex Discrimination.
◦Title IX requires schools to adopt and publish grievance procedures for students to file complaints of sex discrimination, including complaints of sexual harassment or sexual violence. Schools can use general disciplinary procedures to address complaints of sex discrimination. But all procedures must provide for prompt and equitable resolution of sex discrimination complaints.
◦Every complainant has the right to present his or her case. This includes the right to adequate, reliable, and impartial investigation of complaints, the right to have an equal opportunity to present witnesses and other evidence, and the right to the same appeal processes, for both parties.
◦Every complainant has the right to be notified of the time frame within which: (a) the school will conduct a full investigation of the complaint; (b) the parties will be notified of the outcome of the complaint; and (c) the parties may file an appeal, if applicable.
◦Every complainant has the right for the complaint to be decided using a preponderance of the evidence standard (i.e., it is more likely than not that sexual harassment or violence occurred).
◦Every complainant has the right to be notified, in writing, of the outcome of the complaint. Even though federal privacy laws limit disclosure of certain information in disciplinary proceedings:
◾Schools must disclose to the complainant information about the sanction imposed on the perpetrator when the sanction directly relates to the harassed student. This includes an order that the harasser stay away from the harassed student, or that the harasser is prohibited from attending school for a period of time, or transferred to other classes or another residence hall.
◾Additionally, the Clery Act (20 U.S.C. §1092(f)), which only applies to postsecondary institutions, requires that both parties be informed of the outcome, including sanction information, of any institutional proceeding alleging a sex offense. Therefore, colleges and universities may not require a complainant to abide by a non-disclosure agreement, in writing or otherwise.
◦The grievance procedures may include voluntary informal methods (e.g., mediation) for resolving some types of sexual harassment complaints. However, the complainant must be notified of the right to end the informal process at any time and begin the formal stage of the complaint process. In cases involving allegations of sexual assault, mediation is not appropriate.
http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/title-ix-rights-201104.html
Please note, I am not offering any opinions about these rules or how universities implement them. My only intention is to provide the rules.
There is already a piece written by one of the young ladies that was raped by a football player that indicates the school was well aware of repeat rapes and still they did nothing. The group has a web site organized by the mother of this victim. They probably have collected a number of incidents where the school failed to report a rape as a crime. This came to light during the time of Morgan Harrington’s abduction. I will have to look back and find it.
The Governor has promised an independent study group to address this matter in all the schools in Virginia beginning with UVA. Just what authority they will be given is unknown. I hope they will find a qualified Attorney to lead who wants to get this behavior stopped and will do what is necessary to make it happen.
If it means removing police authority from colleges and universities in the state and changing it to county or city units, that would be a proper step. The next thing is to chase data from the time of Title IX and all its variants and amendments to the present.
Title IX was written to correct the abuse of not advancing and paying women in the work place the same as men. Then it was used to try and balance money spent on sports teams in schools. Mission creep has broadened its reach over time. The Clery act was written to prevent the very thing we are talking about of schools being in protect mode regarding crimes that may affect their reputation.
IMO the whole federal system of Title IX and the attendant changes over the past forty plus years needs to be revisited and changed to keep it on a correct path and force federal funded organizations to always follow state law regarding anything to do with criminal activities.
Ever since the public college police forces in Virginia have become accredited, instead of security agencies which deferred to the County or City police, (starting around 2001, and pushed forth more by 2007, Va Tech), they have been subject to two things:
1. The political agenda of the board of visitors AND individual members of the BOV as regards charging for various crimes, also intentional manipulations and considerations due to the Clery reporting and how that is to be positioned.
2. Oversight of these “police” from the college or university administration which is not skilled and proficient enough in most cases to manage this
function.
There are a lot of problems coming from “the accrreditation” of these campus security squads. Statewide.
Also going back to Morgan, if the facts are known there is a good chance that she met up with JLM on UVA grounds in his taxi, and he told her that he was “getting off soon, would give her a free ride, walk over the bridge and pretend to hitchhike so he would not get fired, don’t tell anyone.” So this was probably a crime that started on grounds. As I see it.
Would someone refresh me as to any previous mention of taxi or limousine driver in the JPJ arena whereabouts that night. Surely someone saw JLM at JPJ that night talking to Morgan and fixing up that ride?
Thanks again Starbucks
Your knowledge of Title IX and the links are important contributions. Your last sentence clears up a question regarding your approach.
In chasing the history over the time of its existence, I found a reference where my friend Rod Page (Secretary of the Department of Educations under G. W. Bush) authorized a commission to look into the application of the law and its real effects. I haven’t found the results of their findings, but will continue to search.
Susan
I agree completely with your assessment of the college/university police forces. They do not have enough separation and independence from the school management to operated effectively.
In your speculation about what actually happened regarding the abduction of Morgan Harrington, I don’t think Morgan was ever on the bridge. I think JM played the “Good Samaritan” part to disarm her long
enough to gain control. Her handbag/backpack was placed on the roof of his vehicle and fell off when he drove out of the lot.
There were many young women who were dressed similarly to Morgan who attended the concert. One of them may have been on the bridge. JM is the only one who knows for certain.
I would like to know if JLM’s past cell phone records are being checked in the cases of the other missing girls. At this point I’m not sure that his cell phone has been checked for anything relating to Morgan, even. I am coming to that lack of confidence by the lack of questioning taxi drivers in the first place. I don’t think any assumptions as to what has been done, or not done, by LE are foregone conclusions. Where do we address these concerns with holes in the investigation which, if had been addressed five years ago, would have saved lives? How did this 2009 investigation get so screwed up?
We can see intentional red herrings thrown out in several instances in both cases, the t shirt placement, the wrong location given by Hannah (or JPM?), the lack of info given out by Morgan to friends about “ride particulars”, and this is similar to at least one other case where the individual just disappeared without telling family what was up. So there may be a ruse in play?? I am inferring “I am driving the taxi off duty, don’t tell anyone we are going in the taxi, I will be fired.” —-????
susan- I would make the presumption that JLM’s records (cell) will not be available in any case where LE did not secure them within at least 30-90 days of the incident.
They are gone.
B
Susan and A Texas Grandfather -
JLM had the perfect cover, a cab that could be concealed in plain sight. No one would have thought twice about Morgan getting into a taxi and thought it would have been suspicious. He could have even come back later to dump the purse and still not seem out of place.
What’s interesting is that, although it was not officially reported, Morgan may have visited an ATM, perhaps to secure money for the ride.
After it was reported that she refused offers of help from strangers, it only seemed logical that she would have gained assistance from someone “official” or within her perceived notion of safety.
She was on the correct track logically, but unfortunately ran into this psycho…
I am not sure where you heard that Cat- but Morgan did not use her ATM card or any other card in her possession at an ATM following her disappearance at any time.
B
Cat
My speculation about the abduction and finding the purse in the parking lot does not work with regard to withdrawal of funds from an ATM machine to pay for the ride. There may be an ATM machine outside or inside JPJ arena, but she did not have any known behavior regarding that activity.
The purse would have contained a wallet or some other means of protecting cards and currency. She could not have stopped at the nearby bank to get funds without the card. IMO she was already under JM’s control when the vehicle left the lot.
A good example is the recent controversy regarding Ray Rice knocking out his then girl friend with one left hook to the jaw. JM is large enough to play on the line in college football and is much bigger than Ray Rice and likely to have twice the strength and power that Ray posses. Control of any woman by physical force would not be difficult for JM.
I recall. Surely- can I reach you at this email?
B
http://www.nbc29.com/story/27519278/matthews-preliminary-hearing-in-graham-case-postponed
Susan and Blink,
The police have filed a warrant for Matthew’s cell phone records.
http://www.nbc29.com/story/27470933/court-documents-dna-links-matthew-to-harrington-case
http://wavy.com/2014/12/02/cnu-president-its-time-to-report-expulsions-on-transcripts/
CNU president: It’s time to report expulsions on transcripts
Are cell phone records destroyed within a years time? I may be remembering incorrectly, but I think Mark Furman stated that phone records were kept for a period of five to seven years. This was during the Peterson case in the Chicago area. He could have been referring to land line records and not cell phone records.
I Think this is related to billing information. All modern switching systems for phones are computer based. A System 7 switch is just a specialized computer with a lot of storage space for data and control codes. Cell tower equipment using LTE technology is digital with the billing data being transferred to a central location for the carrier.
Every carrier is different ATG, but all have very specific processes for subpoena and retention of records. They must be preserved specifically through that process and up until about 2010 they would still only guarantee about 4 years- Not just that, burner phones and prepaid are an entirely different animal. I am not permitted to post their protocols publicly.
B
This article addresses the length of time a cell phone company keeps your records:
There is a document in the article that displays many of the major carriers policies (not all).
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2393887,00.asp
Thanks for the link NaNa
The article is informative and is the result of an ACLU investigation to find data that would be helpful to a legal case.
The long term retention time of seven years was by AT&T. That makes sense regarding my memory of the time stated by Mark Furman. Chicago is a major site for AT&T with several switching centers for land lines. The Peterson case was in one of the communities SW of Chicago.
The article reports and effort of the congress to try and standardize the retention times of all phone data. This would have to include all the various companies such as we know about that have communications systems. It will also include data over the internet. It will include companies that have large data centers for cloud computing. This is Amazon, Apple, Google and Microsoft to name a few. In fact, the Microsoft center in Chicago was the worlds largest when it was opened.
Prepaid, non-contract phones still have to use the wireless networks of one or several of the carriers. That data is captured and is tied to a particular phone. The phone ID consists of the serial number of the phone, its assigned telephone number and the pre-paid contract identifier such as Straight Talk or Tracfone.
Blink Says:
I am not sure where you heard that Cat- but Morgan did not use her ATM card or any other card in her possession at an ATM following her disappearance at any time.
B
—————————
So it was officially verified that she did not?
There was some speculation. This information goes back to the Forum days, although it was not reported, it was neither confirmed or denied, I believe Dr. Harrington said that he could not answer the question. If I recall properly, it was the ATM located at the Suntrust bank between the bridge and Food of all Nations.
It was confirmed to me personally through a VSP source working on her case- her card was not used at any time post-disappearance and was found with her wallet.
B
Eloise
Your link provides some good information regarding student dismissal for a cause. Based on my read of the article there is much more work to be done to put a stop to sexual assaults and stalking on college campuses.
I think the legislature of Virginia has a bill calender that lists the bill and tracks its progress. It may also have the language of the bill as originally filed.
A good illustration of what should have happened regarding a student misbehaving was the Yeardley Love case. The big galoot that beat her to death had been arrested in another city by a female cop that had to use her taser on him. This was never reported to the University nor to the local police. She might still be alive if this type behavior was shared with locale LE and not a college PD that might have certified officers employed.
This means that there must be more sharing of bad behavior of students with rules that meet good common sense and state law.
Freedom is great and everyone is entitled to it. However, when one person’s freedom begins to impinge on that of another, it must stop. Criminals and those that are overbearing do not recognize such limits and because of this, we have to have rules and law to control them.
doesn’t mean there is a relation .but eric garner’s mothers name is gwen carr. http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/eric-garner-mom-doesn-ferguson-riots-s-article-1.2027807.
So- ok what’s everyone take on this retraction? Pressure on Rolling Stone from some large “somebody” taking place OR did Jackie make this up??
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/a-note-to-our-readers-20141205
According to Washington Post- there are multiple discrepancies that cannot be accounted for…?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/u-va-fraternity-to-rebut-claims-of-gang-rape-in-rolling-stone/2014/12/05/5fa5f7d2-7c91-11e4-84d4-7c896b90abdc_story.html
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/a-note-to-our-readers-20141205
I just walked in the door from guest lecturing all day and I am on the floor first click-
These are very basic fact checking elements- without which that story would never appear on BOC – I cannot believe how sloppy this is/was.
B
It appears that Rollingstone Magazine just destroyed all their credibility. This story must now be a considered piece of fiction with a purpose to defame. I hope they have a lot of money or a large insurance policy.
Sigh. This is the type of thing that makes it hard for LE and others to accept a charge of sexual assault from a woman. Instead of progress towards solving a major problem on college campuses, we may see a push-back that makes matters worse.
Sick over it. All I can muster in words.
B
what I noticed in the Post article is Dragas’ everlasting volubility with media.
Imo this affords a Dragas platform. Particularly with a FofBill Dem gov.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/all-opinions-are-local/post/virginias-elite-rescues-helen-dragas/2013/01/17/01b6d7be-60c7-11e2-a389-ee565c81c565_blog.html
imo she is so Beth Dozoretz.
After reading the Rolling Stone article I spoke with a female relative who graduated from UVA. Some of the alleged victim’s comments made no sense to either of us – especially when she said all of her friends told her not to report the alleged rapes. This and some other remarks did not ring true, in my opinion. Now we learn of all the discrepancies in her story/stories.
Reminds me of the Duke Lacrosse players case. That’s my take, Elouise.
Sigh. The only thing I can hope for-is for this hot mess to not reverse the very necessary review of female sexual assaults on campus ( no denying it is an epidemic- UVA is under investigation for Clery among 60 plus other schools). The basic fact check process should be the journalists responsibility in the initial witness (target subject) vetting.
I keep feeling like we have only heard the first shoe.
B
the wording on the two different articles linked here , is making me wonder if there are more than one perp’s dna on margans tshirt. the one above by chris ,states ” pantera tshirt had “multiple dna stains on it”.the other ,said one dna sample of multiple stained area of the tshirt yielded a match to to a 2005 Fairfax rape case. hmmm. i’m chompin at the bit to profile. his friend said jesse wanted to marry but the girl he was seeimg wasn’t religious and he couldn’t marry a girl wasn’t religious.thats like Madonna whore complex. Susan’s comment that press archives show escalation right before our eyes,also I see sexual development maybe,the liberty u,and Fairfax are like out in the open , immature on the playground attacks,lack of a car?or did he have a car? ,and the object ,is that inability to operate his organ?when he got acar , he kidnapped the girls to a isolated location ,did the type of sexual attack change? is his organ involved? hmmm. iam just pondering it all . all these family names repeat .I knew megginsons ,pooles ,hicks,greers.i keep seeing the surname yeardly ,and I think of yeardly love.there was a prominent George carr in Arkansas that helped found the state of rhode island.but matthew without the letter s at the end ,as a surname, is that common? there’s Mathews county,va.
Rolling Stones’s statement as they throw “Jackie” under the bus.
Last month, Rolling Stone published a story titled “A Rape on Campus” by Sabrina Rubin Erdely, which described a gang rape of a woman named Jackie at a University of Virginia fraternity house; the university’s failure to respond to this alleged assault – and the school’s troubling history of indifference to many other instances of alleged sexual assaults. The story generated worldwide headlines and much soul-searching at UVA. University president Teresa Sullivan promised a full investigation and also to examine the way the school responds to sexual assault allegations.
Because of the sensitive nature of Jackie’s story, we decided to honor her request not to contact the man she claimed orchestrated the attack on her nor any of the men she claimed participated in the attack for fear of retaliation against her. In the months Erdely spent reporting the story, Jackie neither said nor did anything that made Erdely, or Rolling Stone’s editors and fact-checkers, question Jackie’s credibility. Her friends and rape activists on campus strongly supported Jackie’s account. She had spoken of the assault in campus forums. We reached out to both the local branch and the national leadership of the fraternity where Jackie said she was attacked. They responded that they couldn’t confirm or deny her story but had concerns about the evidence.
In the face of new information, there now appear to be discrepancies in Jackie’s account, and we have come to the conclusion that our trust in her was misplaced. We were trying to be sensitive to the unfair shame and humiliation many women feel after a sexual assault and now regret the decision to not contact the alleged assaulters to get their account. We are taking this seriously and apologize to anyone who was affected by the story.
Will Dana
Managing Editor
Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/a-rape-on-campus-20141119#ixzz3L5uTagZ3
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook
wrt “to not reverse the very necessary review of female sexual assaults on campus”
never fear, this cause is Trustee Dragas’ new best friend to oust
Sullivan. Right now I’m wondering how closeDragas is to Terri’s wife,
to Dozoretz (also from VABeach), and who she with allies
has in mind for new Prexy. Did I mention I respect Sullivan?
bottom line on UVA administratively
is the answer to what Friend in the Clinton universe
does Terry McA want to install as UVA Pres while in office?
Fundraisers stick together. He will act thru trusted BoT
members, and one cause, ie rape & sex, is as
good as a financial scandal, or an athletics scandal,
or say a pedophile on campus
(alluding to Sandusky ousting Spanier).
Phi Kappa Psi voluntarily surrendered its fraternal agreement Thursday with the University of Virginia and suspended all chapter activities as shockwaves spread across Grounds over allegations of a gang rape at the fraternity.
———————————————–
That was reported 2 weeks ago and should have alerted all of us that things were not as they seemed. The survival of a fraternity is an economic issue and no fraternity would go down without a fight. Remembering that even the worst among us is entitled to a spirited defense, Phi Kappa Psi would not surrender to unproven accusations.
On the other hand, Rolling Stone has certainly revealed itself for the “rag” it is first attacking the fraternity, now dumping the woman and blaming everyone in sight for what they got wrong. Including the fraternity! “We asked for their comment and they would neither confirm or deny.” LOL
It is so hard for me to fathom how anyone can kill another human being. The darkness that must live within a person who is capable of that. I just cannot imagine how that ugliness, that darkness, can be hidden. Certainly, they must lack the ability to feel compassion, empathy, respect, love. How can that not be noticed by people who know him? I understand being able to put on the predator’s mask when he is on the prey, but how do the people who KNOW him not see that darkness within him? If they did, they must also have noticed his likeness to Sketch. And, if they did that as well, and didn’t call in, I just don’t understand how they live with themselves.
It seemed like they were never going to catch Morgan’s killer, which frustrated the hell out of me. Now I am frustrated that he was right under their nose, right out in the open, not hiding under any rocks anywhere, and it took yet another precious life to be lost for him to get caught.
I am glad to hear that they are pulling the cell records and hope that they can go back far enough. I believe that while conversing with people in the parking lot, Morgan was referred to Jesse for a ride (coinciding with what she told her friends on the phone about getting a ride).
There were multiple DNA stains of his on the shirt per one of the links above. I wonder if they were semen or blood, or both. I believe Morgan fought back hard.
I also believe Morgan fought back ferociously when she could.
B
To susanm-
I saw that too re Carr surname/ daily news- lol.
atg mntioned mother jones the other day ,they have a good take,and some interesting statistics.http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/12/college-campus-rape-sexual-assault-stats-rolling-stone-uva
judi, yeah gils comment about “sperm rag” now makes literal sense,i don’t think it was blood, surely, blake ,the finder ,couldn’t held back that it was bloody.although a spot of morgans blood was said to be on the tshirt.but a lot of dried blood?i dont think he would’ve touched it.
Just so we can put this issue to rest- I will speak to this in the hypothetical.
Sperm has a shelf life forensically for detection absent other conditions on average of a maximum of 72 hours. There is no DNA in semen. One can draw the conclusion that there could not have been any sperm on that tshirt. Lastly- “diffused stain” is a forensic “tag”.
B
Thanks for the link Susanm
If one looks at the stats in the article regarding who,where and how, it is shown that rape occurs 3.2 time more frequently by fraternity men than it does among non-fraternity men. This is validation of my statement that a frat house is the most dangerous place on campus for women. That is not something new, it was when I was in college and it still remains so.
The main method is to use alcohol to reduce the woman’s ability to function. In other words, get them as drunk as possible. Some who get in a hurry, will use other drugs to speed up the process.
The only way to stop this behavior is to educate the women about the danger and the proper process for reporting the assault to LE and how to preserve the evidence. The colleges and university administration need to get over their protect the reputation mode at all costs and follow the law. All fraternities should be on notice that if a rape occurs on their property, their charter will be revoked for a period of ten years.
The CSA report referenced in the Mother Jones article is covering the period between 2005 and 2007. It is available as a PDF document at the link. The document is 111 pages long.
Somehow young women must have it drilled into their mind that rape is never their fault. It is always the fault of the man. He has the responsibility to behave himself and if he doesn’t, then he must pay the penalty for a criminal act.
Regarding “Jackie’s” story recounted in Rolling Stone: I didn’t want to speak up when the article came out because all of the accounts sounded truthful and and I didn’t want to disrespect of victim of violence. Jackie’s report seemed suspect right away. It’s only my opinion. I haven’t been able to parse out what set off the hink meter either except for a few instances below.
My doubt arose over the ‘kneeling and lying in broken glass’ account, as well as how the alleged victim was addressed as “it”–so amateurish and I’ve read student accounts in statewide writing assessments that are similar.
I almost didn’t read the entire article due to the lead story sounding “off.”
Did anyone else feel the hinky meter turn?
mea culpa here- I recall first reading the piece very late- and quite quickly I wondered if I had not interviewed someone close to Jackie a few years ago ( I am going to be intentionally vague as I have never published accounts of sexual assault I am personally aware of from sources and I do not have permission to as sources). I judge myself as non-objective as I am quite closely tied to the Harrington/UVA/RG/Graham/Matthew cases and have written on some of those issue extensively over the years. My first takeaway was that UVA did nothing to address a significant problem and this was the result. Once I got past all that, yes.
Hinky for me can be summed up in the note I wrote in the left margin of an outline I was drafting in pencil on lined comp paper. (Yes, I still make hand-written notes because for me- the imprint re-test and learning factors are helpful.)
I first wrote “lights, glass?”. Then on the reverse side at the bottom left margin I wrote-”never says when lights came on- wtf?” Other notes include who would wear a red dress to a frat party and I won’t say what else but will paraphrase it had to do with the feasibility of 7 sexual acts on a bed of broken glass and the fact that she never mentioned so much as getting a drink or any contact prior to the walk up the steps. Truthfully I never dreamed RS would publish this piece without vetting every detail of it completely. I was wrong. I still do not think the full story is addressed with the managing editors note.
If Jackie truly was sexually assaulted and her reason for embellishing was to sharpen the point- I can understand that I guess, but then say so. I have read “Jackie” tried to back out of the piece at some point but was denied. I would like to know the timeline of that as it relates to vetting and fact checking. I am just sick over the whole mess.
B
In reviewing comments by Indahlia and Rose regarding the story by Rolling Stone, it appears from the behavior of the fraternity turning in their charter that the story may not be all fiction. There may have indeed been a rape in that fraternity house, but not like the article described. Suppose the date of the assault was wrong and the number of men involved was incorrect, but more than one was involved.
A thorough investigation would perhaps clear out the fiction and get to the, facts whatever they actually are.
I have to agree with Rose regarding the opportunity for the Governor to use this event to remove Ms. Sullivan as President of the University. The BOV has indicated previously that they would like to have another person in that office.
The Associated Press published a piece about this event and in it they report that two bills have been prepared in the legislature of Virginia. The description of their intent is IMO still protecting the University and leaving LE out of the loop for 48 hours regarding rape. The people of Virginia need to pay attention to this proposed legislation and let the bill sponsors know their opinions.
The comments by the Rolling Stone editor address the accuracy of details suppled by Jackie, but not the veracity of the article in general. The article presents powerful portrait of the sexual abuses of students on the UVA campus and the failure of the university to deal with the victims effectively. The editors comments do little to change my opinion.
ATG said
Freedom is great and everyone is entitled to it. However, when one person’s freedom begins to impinge on that of another, it must stop. Criminals and those that are overbearing do not recognize such limits and because of this, we have to have rules and law to control them.
I love this