Hannah Graham Body Located: Sources Say Tip Led To Her Recovery
Breaking News: The body of Hannah Elizabeth Graham has been recovered.
Press Conference involving multiple agencies to be held momentarily.
Thoughts and prayers are with Hannah, her family and friends this evening.
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With these new scientific corpse farms (there may only be one established so far) it’s been shown human bodies decompose very fast. Much faster than forensic people ever thought. To bones in no time.
that should help….dressing more chastely….why has no one ever thought of that before? comment on the drinking…as s very longtime sober person…..most people STOP drinking ad soon as they start to feel it…
drunks want to feel drunk…there is a slim possibility…once drunk of being even remotely aware or able to defend yourself or think clearly….09-.12 bac is only 3-5 drinks drunk quickly….the idea of acting with normal caution and intelligence is out of the question…unfortunately this is the desired state for a lot of college drinkers…no reason to get the hail of stones in a pile to hurl…unless you are an slkie…you will have no idea what I mean
Looking at JM’s history in retrospect it seem appalling that he wasn’t stopped sooner, but I doubt there really was much that could have been done otherwise.
We know very little about his behavior prior to college.
At Liberty he was immediately kicked out of school and the local LE notified. There really wasn’t much else LU could do.
LE chose not to prosecute, apparently because the victim chose not to proceed. The incident as reported by JM and the victim was very similar and differed only concerning the issue of consent. Therefore, there was no way to prosecute this without the active participation of the victim.
His admission to Christopher Newport does raise issues. This is a D-3 school, meaning he received no athletic-based aid. Apparently his academics weren’t top notch, so academic aid is unlikely. It would be very interesting to know what CNU knew during his admission process. Did they review his Liberty transcript? What was in the Liberty transcript? How did JM justify his departure from LU? Did he convince the admissions counselor that he was unjustly accused? CNU’s behavior raises all kinds of red flags for me. On the other hand, if he had not been accepted to CNU he probably would have gone somewhere else with his criminal ways unchecked – it would have spared the CNU victim, however.
The downtown businesses who knew he was a shady guy could have done better, but there wasn’t a lot they could do. If he was banned from one bar, he would go to another. If all the bars banded together to ban him, there would be significant political, if not legal, risk. There was a town in the deep South a few years ago where a group of downtown businesses banned two customers who were felt to be frequent shoplifters. Both were African-American and a NAACP boycott was launched against the town until the two were allowed back into all stores.
There was little UVA could have done, since all of JM’s activities were off campus, or at least on the fringe. Maybe if the had arrested MH for public intoxication, she would have survived, but universities are hesitant to arrest students, knowing that such arrests could affect their future employment opportunities.
Like all here, I wish he had been stopped earlier, and that LE had done a better job after MH’s murder, but I do understand how he was able to game the system.
We’ll probably never know, but I’m not sure Hannah felt she was in enough trouble that she needed a police officer. She was lost, but if someone, maybe Jesse Matthew, told her he could help, she trusted him until it was too late. She didn’t feel she was in danger. She just needed to get back to the University area. I think the same thing happened with Morgan if indeed the same person took both young women. Morgan was angry, either hurt or inebriated and didn’t have the keys to her car. She was offered a ride to somewhere, and she accepted, never realizing a devil could wear such a huge, friendly smile. Maybe their killer wasn’t looking for a victim on October 17, 2009 and September 13, 2014, but when he saw them, he couldn’t pass up the opportunity and their circumstances dropped them right into his hands. Even though both young women had left their friends, they actually weren’t in an area where they were totally alone unlike someone walking on a deserted street. Videos show that Hannah was in an area with lots other people. Morgan, in her travels across the parking lots, encountered quite a number of people, yet at no time did anyone seem to realize these young women were in danger of being kidnapped. I think the reason being, the person who took them didn’t use force in the beginning. They thought he was the answer to what they needed until he got them alone. What he initially presented to them was a large but “gentle” man. Some have questioned the action of the white guy who said he saw her walking and decided to follow her to be sure she wasn’t in trouble. It hasn’t been said, but if he was a regular on the mall, did he recognize Jesse Matthew as someone he had seen many times? Could it have been that when he saw her connect with Jesse Matthew he though she’ll be okay now, she’s no longer alone. She’s with a large but “gentle” man.
Being a University student, I’m not sure Hannah would have had any idea where to locate the CPD station on Market Street running parallel to but one block from the mall. It’s possible she didn’t even know where the transit hub is for CAT. I don’t know what it’s like now, but at one time not a lot of students ventured to the “downtown” area of Charlottesville. After all, the corner within easy walking distance, offers what they look for in the way of food/bars with people their own age. That’s the reason Charlottesville transit started the free trolley to the University area, to encourage more students to frequent the shops and restaurants on the mall. If CPD doesn’t already do so, maybe they should take part in new student orientation, to familiarize the newcomers to areas not immediately adjacent to grounds and where to go for help in those areas.
I’m so glad charges have been placed in Fairfax. I don’t know which jurisdiction will take precedent, but I did see a comment by a former CA that Fairfax might take the lead so that Mr. Matthew, if he comes to trial in Charlottesville, will already be a convicted rapist.
Belsma says:
I would think he would never be brought to trial for that one being that his charges here are more serious?
——————————————
Low hanging fruit, different jurisdiction, DNA will make this case an open/shut one, and in my opinion, is the current strongest case to date. If he gets 20, they have a WHOLE lot more time to work the murders, get everything correct to secure a conviction and perhaps try to get him to spill. I DON’T believe it was a coincidence that the charges were brought at the same time Hannah’s body was found, they need sufficient time.
I sincerely hope they get him talking in some way, I believe there are more victims, although his similar “pattern”, his “dumping ground” since 2009 may lead one to trust the contrary. You better believe that LE will be scouring the general area with a fine tooth comb in the coming period of time though.
I am getting a little nervous. Its taking a long time to ID her. Its only been 5 weeks, Can’t they do a hair sample?
A forensic Odontologist has likely already made a preliminary comparison, but keep in mind while her remains are undergoing autopsy they are also being processed for evidence. I do not believe they will release findings before this case heads to the grand jury- which will mean nobody but her parents will know prior to trial
B
B: Did he ever work for Region 10?
Region Ten is in many ways an odd place– and one that doesn’t have the greatest reputation either locally or in VA. I am unwilling to say more than that publicly.
But I doubt that older white man has anything to do with Region 10. Wasn’t there a local high school reunion going on that evening somewhere right near the Mall?
Your talk of women dressing more chastely reeks of sexism and patriarchal rape myths, ATG, and is making me really uncomfortable. Can we can it on the moralizing to young women? You aren’t one and have never been one, and I really resent the victim blaming and moral superiority here. How a woman is dressed has absolutely nothing to do with whether she will become a target. It is attitudes like this that prevent women from coming forward in the first place.
Maybe I’m reading the comment wrong, but I think ATG’s comment about how to dress struck leslie wrong. Let me say this, as a mother, I would said Hannah should have dressed a little warmer for a night that was going to get a bit cool but that’s the Mommy in me. Other than that, there was absolutely nothing inappropriate about the way she was dressed. She looked oh so pretty walking down that hallway. From what I’ve read about how Morgan was dressed, she was covered from head to toe. As for drinking or whatever else both girls could have drunk or used, I don’t care if they were drunk as a skunk or high as the sky, they deserved to live to tell their children, “back when I was young.” That chance was taken away from both of them and someone needs to pay dearly.
ATG, you can’t regulate what you deem to be strange bwhaviors. That would be a gross violation of civil liberties. People have the right to be obnoxious in public places, and no bar owner is going to monitor his patrons’ behaviors if it isn’t illegal. You know what does work? Giving women a supportive environment in which to come forward, without fear of being shamed or blamed.
Blink,’just checking to see if last night’s posts were okay. I know time is a hot minute for you. I hope my attempt at wit was taken with a kilo of salt. Thank you.
LOL
B
Is JM being kept in isolation or is he mixed in with the general population wherever he is being held?
isolation
B
I wish you could go back and modify comments while in moderation because I always think of something I wish I had said or said differently. I want to make absolutely clear, in my comment #32, I was not saying I thought anyone here had said or insinuated that the way either girl dressed or acted had contributed to their deaths. There are mean people in the world though who will believe that something they did lured their killer to them. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that there is something that draws the killer to certain type of woman and these young women met whatever sick fantasy or need for revenge that drove him. It could also be that he’s just plain evil and kills for pure enjoyment without justifying the need to himself.
Belsma-
I know with Curtis Vance, the person convicted of murdering the news anchor Ann Pressly, he was also connected to an un solved rape case the prior year. He was tried/convicted for Anne’s murder first then tried for the rape. That case ended with a deadlocked jury.
I agree with Blink that they probably haven’t decided yet. However, I’d supposed they’d first try him for Hannah’s murder since it is the case that is most recent. Unless, Hannah’s case relies upon the FF case. Which I hope isn’t a factor here. I could see if he got acquitted of the FF rape (it happens) that would arm defense attorneys with ammo and they’ll want to avoid that at any cost
I think sometimes folks get confused that “prior bad acts” can come into a prosecution on an unrelated criminal charge- they largely cannot, unless there is some ruling (there are many what if’s here- but contemplation of a mental defense, intentional attempt to create a mistrial as a strategy- defense witness opens the door to such testimony, etc) none of that is relevant prior to sentencing for a conviction.
That said- I would not rule out the possibility of Federal charges just yet. This decision is going to be a while- but as I stated previously regarding matthew NCAA eligibility for both schools- it is going to be investigated.
B
Not any cost, but convicting him of murder would keep him off the streets forever unlike a rape charge (sadly).
What determines if/when ‘capital’ charges? I knew if an LEO is killed it is capital, but how in the 2005 assault case?
As defined in Statute in 2005 as a VA capital offense.
B
“Media: For your planning purposes, there will NOT be a press conference to announce the ME’s findings. We will release a written statement.” @AlbemarleCoPD
Thank you so much.
“Young ladies often in the name of being fashionable make clothing choices that don’t fit the situation. I remember when I taught middle school music that extremely short skits were in vogue. These are ages twelve through fourteen. After two weeks of working with them I grew tired of seeing their underwear, so I sat down with the head band director, a woman, to discuss the situation. She agreed that she too didn’t like it. All the other directors were men and they too chimed in that it was time for a change. She had the men take the boys to another band hall and she gave them a very good lecture on how to dress properly for a school classroom.”
-snipped from : 27.A Texas Grandfather says:
October 20, 2014 at 11:23 pm
http://blinkoncrime.com/2014/10/18/hannah-graham-body-located-sources-say-tip-led-to-her-recovery/#comments
I’ll just say…wow…
Let me just say that I know that did not come across as intended on ATG’s part. Let’s consider context, let’s consider that in fairness- I can tell you that there are strict rules about dress in my kids schools and they include things like skirt length, no tanks, no yoga pants, no holes in jeans, real or by design, no underwear showing from trousers, etc. I believe that was the basic gist from ATG.
Under no circumstances does attire play a part in a female’s ( of any age ) consent or willfull attraction to a sexually motivated offender. Let’s all make sure we are on that same page. Check.
I will be very clear that as far as a victimization predaliction or preference on behalf of an offender- it absolutely could be that “shiny object” for them. I can’t say in this case (JLM) if it is, I really only have a definite dual victim profile at the moment-
Here’s the one thing I am sure of. His victims were alone and vulnerable- there were outward and associated public conversations of that nature. This freak is a predator and was lying in wait- the only sure protection I know of to thwart that is the buddy system.
B
B, I just read, and I cannot remember the news station, my apologies, that a press conference will not be held once the remains have been positively identified, just that the ME will provide a written statement for public release. Do you know why a press conference would NOT be given to release this? Just seems odd to me and I don’t know why. To me, this is almost the MOST important conference to have, next to stating JM is charged with her murder…
Yes, because under VA law an autopsy is private information and not subject to public disclosure.
This prosecution will start and end with a gag order, most especially since the Fairfax indictment.
B
Two things floating around my in head…
I hope that girls and women at UVA and in Charlottesville and Abemarle and surrounding counties don’t let their guard down simply because JLM has been arrested. I worry that everyone will breathe a big sigh of relief and go back to life as normal. But there are always more creeps out there…
Also, it had been mentioned in discussion at one point that UVA should start some sort of safe ride service for students. In addition to buses that travel a route across town, Johns Hopkins U. has a fleet of vans (with the Hopkins name and logo clearly visible on the side) that can be summoned to transport students door to door in neighborhoods surrounding their main campus. If UVA doesn’t have such a service and is thinking about implementing one, perhaps they should speak with administrators at JHU.
UVA has several options in that area Lucky- unfortunately, at one time, that included Matthew.
B
“plausible.
You know what keeps eating at me?
The ID of the man who was following a “distressed Hannah” and was the witness who says he saw an AA male with his arms around her waist. His name has never been released. I wonder how he came to the conclusion that she was distressed? That would seem to be an important piece of witness information.
By his non-reaction to Jesse meeting up with Hannah, or non-intervention I should say- should we infer that he felt her distress was over? Did he know JLM?
Did he ever work for Region 10?
B”
I 110% agree with you on this, it’s like this witness just dropped off the planet…granted I’m sure he’s being kept close for witness purposes but I’ll never understand why or what made him stop following her… maybe the interaction of those two and them heading inside Tempo was enough to make him think they were supposed to meet up and head there but what eats at me more…was the description he gave of JM…it DID not match JM at all and if we so observant to “know” Hannah was distressed, how did he get JMs description wrong except for the AA male fact and possible height? (Close shaved goatee, slight beer belly, black jeans, white shirt, late 20-30′s, 5’10-5’11 and approx. 250-280 lbs) nothing about the VERY noticeable dreadlocks hairstyle..
@monymony: I am a bit nervous, too. In so many cases, once they have a match on the dental records, LE will tell the public. That said, LE may want the results of DNA in addition to her dental records. Blink, it may be that they are waiting for a grand jury. Imo, it is just a matter of time before he faces more indictments.
Btw, imo, dressing more chastely or conservatively does not ever guarantee a woman won’t be sexually assaulted. Several years ago, we had an 18 year old offender rape an 80-ish year old grandmother who was wearing a simple housedress.
Blink on your article on May 18, 2010 titled Anchorage Farm Could Yield Even More Clues, there is a FB invite to the seven mile sleepover at Anchorage Farm. One of the confirmed attendees shares the same name as a FB friend of JLM. Is this his connection to Jenny Bass and the farm?
Yes ma’am. Was turned over to LE weeks ago by yours truly. It is one connection, there were others.
So interestingly, that same individual is FB friends with Matthew 2009 assault victim.
B
I am very relieved to know LE and the Commonwealth have been working The Fairfax case – I was worried that something was amiss- glad to know everything is being done.
I commend the victim for her willingness to continue the process for and for her courageousness and for her strength.
I hope any other women who were attacked and got away come forward to work with LE as well.
My prayers go out to them all- whether they find the strength to speak out or not.
AJMO peace
I don’t think it has anything to do with how a young woman is dressed. A predator is a predator.
No piece of clothing (or lack thereof) is a submission by a woman to be raped, beaten and murdered. The problem lies squarely with the predator. I agree that a woman can decrease her chances of becoming a victim by not walking alone at night — but I don’t think Hannah’s choice of clothing was an invitation for rape. Far from it. Pick up a copy of any fashion magazine and see that midriff tops and skinny pants are very common.
She was going to college parties on a Friday night. Do you think if she would have been wearing a tunic she would’ve avoided an attack? I don’t think so.
To focus on the clothing choice is missing the real mark — that is, Hannah’s killer is a severely disturbed human being who’s depth of darkness is yet to be revealed.
also it was hard for witness to AA male to miss those dreadlocks.
——
the Fairfax DA appears to be a fine prosecutor,
the elements of the charges seem quite proveable
beyond a reasonable doubt with the evidence on hand. No reason
for the prior crimes & after crimes of that crime to come in.
And Charlottesville and other jurisdictions can take all the time needed.
Re TGF
A Texas Grandfather says:
October 20, 2014 at 11:23 pm
hello- the same as everyoneelse here i read yr posts with great enthusiasm wondering what great wisdom you will impart next.
You have given me much to think about…
First let me say that i think yr idea is a good one:
“to have a meeting of all the business people on the downtown mall to gather their infomation about the behavior of JM”
to include interviewing those who knew interacted or hang out with LJ
However I dont think it would be quite legal to have a meeting to discuss other patrons specifically- even those related to LJ who have not broken the law many people are thought to be “strange” or hang out frequently but are law abiding patrons.
Having said that I do agree that the owners and employees bouncers etc- should work with LE to create a process of noting or handling patrons who continually exhibit some or more of the behaviors that LJ is said to have had-
Especially since some of those behaviors are highlighted in written LE alerts-
Snipped
Be aware that a seemingly nice, regular individual can turn into a rapist.
There are some men who are more likely to be sexually aggressive than others. Characteristics can include someone who:
* Does not listen to you, talks over you or pretends not to hear you.
* Ignores your personal space boundaries.
* Does what he wants, regardless of what you want.
* Expresses excessive anger or aggression towards women in general.
* Acts excessively jealous or possessive.
* Drinks heavily.
Cont Part 2
AJMO Peace
To add to my post above. What if he knew about the event and wanted her to be found there?
No doubt JJ, not my intent at all.
B
Re TGF Part 2
Pardon me TGF, Im taking a minute away from yr thoughts to discuss LEs wording
In that safety announcement
continued LE goes on to say:
Many perpetrators do not pre-meditate their indecent acts. They actually believe that the victim will enjoy it and won’t say no. Anger, embarrassment, resentment, and selfishness take over and the perpetrator arrives at “the point of no return.” A woman cannot always prevent a rape.
However, there are some things that can be done to help reduce the chances of being raped:
Be forceful and firm. Do not worry about being polite!
Trust your gut-level feelings. If you believe that you are being pressured, then you probably are. Leave the situation immediately; call out for help.
If you observe suspicious or criminal activity, report it immediately to police by calling 911.
Young women need to be on the alert at all times and look out for each other. University men also have the responsibility, as members of our community of trust, to look out for the well-being of University women.
When you see a young woman in a difficult or dangerous situation, you should not hesitate to seek help
—-
this statement although meant to help safeguard students from rape and urges them to report the sexual assault actually IMO helps perpetuate part of the problem blaming the victim- and coddling the perp
What the hell does sharing the proposed mindset of the attacker as “not premeditated”of”indecent acts” have to do with safeguarding yrself or having the strength and courage to report?
next- How is telling potential victims or actual victims of sexual assault/rape that the perp “actually believe that the victim will enjoy it and won’t say no.” Helping to safeguard or urging the victim to report? what does saying “no” have to do with it? perhaps the victim could not speak or shouted stop- or nothing at all- what would it matter since the perp- will “believe” what he/she/they wants anyway?
Next- This statement:
Anger, embarrassment, resentment, and selfishness take over and the perpetrator arrives at “the point of no return.” A woman cannot always prevent a rape.
Unbelievable to me- as this makes it sound as if rape or sexual assault occurs because the poor perp feels Anger, embarrassment, resentment, and selfishness somehow seemingly inferred that something the potential victim has done or not done – set this perp on a course of feelings..to which he/she/they inadvertently reached a “point of no return” No matter what happens next- nothing can be done for the perp cant – stop?
I am unaware of anyone engaged in “indecent acts” that could not stop because of the “point of no return”
And this
“A woman cant always prevent rape”
what in the world? this statement again makes it seem as if it is the woman who can prevent a rape usually…but not always?
What message is that sending to a victim who is struggling with coming forward?
i could go on but I think Ive made my point this page is full of alerts of crimes and tips to help- some good some not so good –
I commend LE and the University for their efforts I just think they may need to rethink some of their language.
http://www.virginia.edu/uvapolice/safety.html
AJMO
Peace Cont Part 3
I told you TGF you gave me alot to think about…
ok, for anyone skimming that info comes from Michael Gibson, chief of UVA Police.
Of greatest concern to me, ( as opposed to what professional and with what credentials and citations was that written, hello?) is that at the end, it encourages a victim to report the rape to the University- not the police. This damn conflict is exactly why this keeps happening- make no mistake. If LE was involved from the get-go and not some vic advocate from the school (this is a conflict- I cannot say this plainly enough- there is no independent advocate for the victim) standing over their bed telling them not to say anything to anyone until they can have them in front of the board for “a review”. WTH? Rape is a felony criminal code violation, period. And this crud about going through the Dean’s office is nothing more than a hopeful sive.
They can like or not- but right now, UVA has had 2 girls murdered from the campus area, 2 sexual assaults occurring the same day as the Graham disappearance… BY A UVA EMPLOYEE. Mark my words again y’all- this is going to end up a Federal Investigation and not because like it should- it is an epidemic and a conflict for police to police their own cases- but because it will involve investigation of NCAA eligibility and disclosure of a dude who ran under the fences of anyone for 14 years.
The FBI knows the empirical data says this guy is a one of a kind ( maybe- not my vote) or we have more graves to dig.
B
@ATG – I agree with most of what you are saying. I especially appreciate the thoughtful tone of your comments. I would like to add that I believe young men need to be taught that females – especially those who are in a vulnerable state (whether by their own doing or not)- should never be taken advantage of. I guess this is the “rape culture” many campuses are facing – the idea that college “men” have a right to all the conquests they can rack up, while “ladies” try to do the same in the name of Title IX equality. Education about self respect needs to be expected from both genders.
Re TGf Part 3
You wrote:
As I understand it, the police station is at one end of the mall. It is too bad that Hannah was not able to reach that location for help.
TGf, I understand yr point but I am thinking more in tune with Blink on this one-
Hannah seems to have been walking purposely to either meet up with a specific person or group-
Blinks scenario of an offer of a ride makes sense right now.
LJ is said to have been a fixture on the mall- a poster here even brought forth the potential info that he was seen by many as “the helper” on the mall- others elsewhere have said they knew him to “look out” for those in need- and still others have hinted he would get beer or- for those who asked
hannah may have thought of him as Not a stranger Not a threat- -It may never occurred to her that she was ever in danger in his company until it was too late- so I dont think having the station on the opposite side of the mall mattered-
You wrote:
Perhaps the Chief could also start a group that works with the young women in the area for the purpose of increasing their safety. Police are people too that have children and care about them and most are concerned for the safety of other young people as well.
TGF Im sure Longo would be good in such a roll as he undoubtedly shares real concern for the wellbeing and safety of youndg women- I think being a father of daughters lends itself to this- but I think his position is where he is needed the most- JMO
To yr idea though- there are quite a few groups that work to educate and prevent- on the tips page – for instance it reads:
Contact the University Police to schedule a personal safety seminar.
Officers will be available during these seminars to meet with members of the community to discuss personal safety. These seminars generally last one to three hours.
The Rape Aggression Defense (R.A.D) program is offered by the University Police and other groups within the Charlottesville community. Participants will learn about risk awareness and risk reduction strategies that help reduce the possibility of becoming a victim of crime as well as the basics of self defense.
Students, faculty and staff who are interested in a safety seminar or self- defense class should contact the University of Virginia Police Department at
434-924-7166 or police@virginia.edu.
Please use all of the resources that are provided to you as a member of the University community. If you are interested in learning more about what resources are available, including safety seminars and self-defense classes, visit our Resources website. http://www.virginia.edu/uvapolice/resources.html
You wrote:
Many young women need to learn just what the police do so that they will not be afraid to ask for help even if they have consumed too much alcohol or other intoxicants to the point of barely being able to walk. The police need to develop a program that does not include arrest if the young woman asks for help when intoxicated.
TGF, they have such programs even to include no arrests for intoxication even if that was directly related to the problem or injury- Not sure how many students or young prople are aware of this though… and I am sure young women just like young men have already learned just what police do and how to seek help-
I dont think Hannah nor Morgan felt they needed LEs help they IMO were unaware of the danger until it was too late.
You wrote:
Young ladies often in the name of being fashionable make clothing choices that don’t fit the situation. I remember when I taught middle school music that extremely short skits were in vogue. These are ages twelve through fourteen. After two weeks of working with them I grew tired of seeing their underwear, so I sat down with the head band director, a woman, to discuss the situation. She agreed that she too didn’t like it. All the other directors were men and they too chimed in that it was time for a change. She had the men take the boys to another band hall and she gave them a very good lecture on how to dress properly for a school classroom.
–
TGf although I respect yr wisdom and experiences and although I too feel that anyone wearing a short skirt is at risk of some one catching a glimpse of their undies- That is all that they should be of risk of not being demure flashing an observant teacher friend stranger etc-
There are usually dress codes for school- if none was in place at r school -one should have been implemented- IMO yr school handled it improperly- putting yr job nd their jobs at risk- yr bringing this seeing the underwear issue to light- and then segregating the students… may have put yr jobs at risk- for most would say What was this teacher doing looking … why did they take it upon themselves to handle it this way?
TGF I understand yr intentions were good but not everyone would… Yes everyone men and women should dress for the situation- but nomatter what a person wears the situation could never be to be raped abducted or killed
Besides both Hannah and Morgan were dressed for the situation- they were dressed modestly- Morgan may not have had the best footwear on for a night walking around the lots locked out..but her boots were fine for a concert and hannahs were sneakers…
You wrote:
We need to teach our young women how to protect themselves in a similar manner.
Do you mean dressing for the situation as with yr students? TGF- that problem could have been averted simply by a note home asking for longer skirts flash pants or a helpful reminder of crossing of ankles
I agree Walking alone especially after dark in ALL places CAN Be very dangerous. They need to learn about this. They do know about this TGF Morgan stayed in the lots with others until she assumingly didnt… hannah was with others and when alone she walked in lighted busy areas-
hannah saved another vulnerable girl in the weeks before- she knew and understood the dangers she, I believe, just thought she was safe and that other helpful Hoos would have her back or Lj would…Sadly that wasnt the case…
You wrote:
A police lecture given by both men and women could be helpful. There are many things that youth are not able to recognize about the behavior of themselves and others until they are properly taught.
TGF I agree, still that link is chuck full of warnings and tips and seminars.
i just think sometimes it comes down to the predator
When predator hunts theyll go to extremes to ensure that a potential victim “mark” is at their most vulnerable
thank you for sharing so much of yrself with us TGF- I always learn so much and always come away appreciating you more-
AJMo peace
@Milly and @ATG – I agree with ATG totally. Milly, it would be nice if what you are saying could be taught in the real world. Young ladies (and any woman) are naive to think that merely educating men will make changes in a sociopath’s mind. They are the predators and they are the serial killers. Evil exists and I don’t think workshops on respect will ever change that. I’m not trying to be rude. My own daughter-in-law is a graduate of UVA (5 years ago). I asked her is it common for young ladies to go out and about in Charlottesville to parties…go on the mall…wherever, by themselves drinking or not drinking and she said “YES”. She said she even did it. I was shocked. She is smart and I know she drinks very little and is very responsible in many, many ways but I would have never imagined her doing this. I have talked with some of her friends (ages 26 -29) and most feel that they should have the same rights as men and that men should be taught to respect them regardless of what they do, where they go, and what they wear. When I mentioned that I was taught (back in the day) to always travel in groups and be careful how I dressed, I was accused of blaming “the victim” so to speak. Yes, I get that….what they were implying…and in NO NO NO way would I blame a woman for how she dresses or where she goes or what she does. In a fantasy world a woman should be safe but in the real world there are evil people (and many were raised right) who are sociopaths….and they KILL, rape and do horrible things. I guess what I am trying to say to all the young ladies is that evil and sociopathic personalities will always exist and to be smart so you end up prey for a predator. I, in no way blame the victims…never…ever..My heart just aches for Hannah, Morgan and their families.
good article
http://www.wjla.com/articles/2014/10/waiting-game-continues-ahead-of-autopsy-results-in-hannah-graham-investigation-108294.html
SORRY……next to last sentence should read BE smart so you DON’T end up prey for a predator.
Thanks milly
Yes, young men must be taught that a woman is not their property to abuse at any time. They must also be taught that it is their duty to protect a female in distress, doing whatever is necessary to secure their safety and well being.
A balanced approach regarding the sexes is required. Unfortunately, our present society is teaching just the opposite. Only a few lucky ones have parents that take the steps to teach proper behavior and respect towards others. Parents is plural in the previous sentence, because few single parent homes are successful in doing the job required. Just as everything else in society depends on the family or a family unit being successful it takes two, a man and a woman. Men need mom’s instruction just as much as women need a dad.
It is being reported that the FBI is looking at the Liberty University case regarding JM. There may be a lot more to that case than we have present knowledge of.
Some agency should act as a co-ordinator to track JM’s behavior from the time he was in high school as well as his school locations and work locations. Offenders of this type often are not identified for twenty or more years. I think LE will eventually clear several more cases if they persist.
Re
leslie says:
October 21, 2014 at 8:14 am
that should help….dressing more chastely….why has no one ever thought of that before? comment on the drinking…as s very longtime sober person…..most people STOP drinking ad soon as they start to feel it…
drunks want to feel drunk…there is a slim possibility…once drunk of being even remotely aware or able to defend yourself or think clearly….09-.12 bac is only 3-5 drinks drunk quickly….the idea of acting with normal caution and intelligence is out of the question…unfortunately this is the desired state for a lot of college drinkers…no reason to get the hail of stones in a pile to hurl…unless you are an slkie…you will have no idea what I mean
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Hi Leslie, First let me say congratulations on yr sobriety. Next I want to say thank you for sharing yr thoughts so that they may promote safety and awareness.
I agree if one decides to drink it should be done responsibly-
We can not prevent underage drinkers new drinkers or irresponsible drinkers from imbibing in alcohol-
It has and always will be part of our world- prohibition didnt end the practice-
what we can do is to try and ensure at risk persons are aware of all preventive safeguards to implement before during and after
that link I posted describes many…such as the buddy system etc.
as to your thoughts on attire you asked:
that should help….dressing more chastely….why has no one ever thought of that before?
leslie a victims attire has NOTHING to do with sexual assault rape abduction or murder
dressing more “chastely” will not safeguard against rape abduction or murder
Rape is a crime of control not sexual gratification these crimes have occurred throughout history to men women and children- nomatter what clothing they wore- or how chaste it was
—-
Re
October 21, 2014 at 1:25 pm
Re luckyblackpearl and Blink- yes according to that link there are other creeps out there-
and some of them seem to fit LJ description…I noticed on most alerts a description is given accept those assaults that occurred on Sept 14th dont have one…not sure if that means anything just noted it…
Next Blink wrote:
UVA has several options in that area Lucky- unfortunately, at one time, that included Matthew.
—
Yes this is sad so sad-
The link posted earlier gives these tips in answer to the unknown cabbie abduction/ attempted rape Feb 18th
Which could seem to have backfired in Hannahs situation
University of Virginia Police would like to remind students that while the Charlottesville area is considered to
be safe, bad things can and do happen. Below are a few key safety reminders that should be a part of your routine as you travel on Grounds and in the surrounding community.
• Please do not walk alone after dark. If you have no choice, call a friend before venturing out to let her or him
know what route you are taking.
• Please do not get into a car unless you know the driver.
• Please do not get into a taxi unless you are sure it is a registered taxi with a meter.
• Please get involved. If you see a fellow student in need of help, offer it. Do not leave an incapacitated student alone, whether or not you know her or him. If you cannot offer immediate assistance, call 911.
• Please rely on University Police if you are in distress or believe you are in danger. If you have been drinking,
are not able to travel on your own, and/or feel vulnerable or threatened, call 911 immediately. Never hesitate
to contact University Police. We are trained to help students and we would prefer that you call us, even if the
situation turns out not to be dire.
——
Even those falling the safety measures and listening to their gift of fear could have fell victim to a predator such as this
AJMO peace
Blink- you wrote in part :
They can like or not- but right now, UVA has had 2 girls murdered from the campus area, 2 sexual assaults occurring the same day as the Graham disappearance… BY A UVA EMPLOYEE.
—Holy Smokes could THAT be the reason the alert contained no helpful description?
Next I did not even realize they were urging victims to only alert them, UVA police… not good
You wrote in part:
Mark my words again y’all- this is going to end up a Federal Investigation and not because like it should- it is an epidemic and a conflict for police to police their own cases- but because it will involve investigation of NCAA eligibility and disclosure of a dude who ran under the fences of anyone for 14 years.
The FBI knows the empirical data says this guy is a one of a kind ( maybe- not my vote) or we have more graves to dig.
B
I think it most certainly should be a FEd investigation AND I agree I dont think this Perp is their only concern- reading that link makes anyone realize that it doesnt matter the time of night alone or with others male or female or how aware one is of the precautions and safety tips that area seems to be a haven for people looking for targets
I dont want more graves- but I agree
AJMO Peace
In a recent conversation with my sister, former Asst Commonwealth’s Atty in SW Va, about Hannah Graham & Morgan Harrington linked cases, she indicated that there’s a long list of victims centering around Rt. 29 (one of the main north/south hwys in & out of Ch’ville). Look for LE to continue to investigate links into those murders/missing persons cases with additional charges against Matthew. Thank goodness VA is a DP state that continues to execute DR inmates, to take out antisocial homicidal trash like Matthew. MOO.
Belsma says:
October 20, 2014 at 10:49 pm
Listening to the local NoVa news on this, it’s still to early to tell. Talking heads were saying that if “prior bad acts” were to be admitted in a/multiple homicide trial/s, he’d have to first be convicted of the NoVa (Fairfax) rape/attempted homicide first. IDK what the statute of limitations on rape is in Va, but it’d be *nice* if the woman he raped in the Norfolk area could/would come forward now that he’s in custody & unlikely to harm her, if her case hasn’t gone beyond the time constraint to prosecute. Seeing as how he lived in the Lynchburg area (Liberty Univ) at one time, I suspect he preyed on women there too, & hope that LE is investigating rapes/missing women/homicides that might be linked to him. This man is a serial killer to be sure, & conducted his evil crime streak under the radar for far too long. MOO.
curious how to teach all this..the behavior can’t be taught….it is called empathy…
you either know this intrinsically or not….these ‘men” learn this behavior early on….hurting others and animals…I am a pessimist…maybe if they were taught at she five might work…or throughout school….as for clothes unless we wear burkas…all women clothes reveal their bodies….no match for testosterone poisoning…just saying
Ru-mom
You have identified the problem with many young women. They have been emancipated from being responsible for their choices of dress and behavior to the point that they are often living outside reality.
They think that when a bad guy attempts something, they can say “be respectful, I am a woman who has rights.” The bad guy will get a big chuckle out of that one as he proceeds to do his deed. What a terrible way to learn about reality.
Mom3.0
What would be illegal about a group of business owners and their employees in an particular area having a meeting regarding making their establishments more secure for their patrons? The fact that at some point, a local LE agency was contacted to meet with them for an exchange of information and ideas would not be illegal either. It is certainly not illegal in Texas and I would think it to be the same in most states.
Suppose they have a problem with panhandlers being aggressive or one or two being a problem. They could also have a problem with a particular individual following women and annoying them. This is where the exchange of information with LE has value. The business owners could learn about their legal recourse from LE and LE could learn of a potential or real problem that needed their attention.
The end result is a safer environment for both employees and patrons.
Can anyone else confirm that there is a family cemetery on the property (3193 Old Lynchburg Rd)
-snipped
Thanks for that post… and in the next lot, left of that property, is a small private family cemetery! It looks like the creek bed behind goes to the right of the property downhill, the Ammonette Branch (edited: as I now notice others are mentioning). Wow, just wow.
unquote
Also, for the life of me, I cannot understand why my posts aren’t being posted. Am I doing something wrong? I realize the traffic is busy, but there are posts after mine, that have passed moderation. It’s so hard to tell how to take this…and I’d rather just know if I’m making a nuisance of myself on here, than anything else. IS anyone having this problem on a frequent basis, or is it just me? I don’t want to hastily judge, but I certainly don’t want to be a pest, either.
Hi Blink — I’m hoping you will share your thoughts on how “penetration with an object” defines his profile as I believe it says something very important about his character and motivation.
What does it tell us about him? Does it reveal that his motivation is paramountly to cause harm and not to gain sexual gratification or power over a woman?
It goes without saying that a victim that survives that kind of abuse/attack may have lost the ability to have children. It hurts my heart to think of the pain these women endured.
It cannot be a stand alone item- it is part of an overall profile that I do not have enough intel yet- it may be a marker, if true.
B
Our colleges and universities are not an organization that may operate like a town or a state. Many seem to believe that they are proper in abusing the state and federal laws to control the students in some way.
This behavior is not limited to one or two schools. It is everywhere.
Students give up None of their Constitutional Rights when they step onto a college or university campus. However, because they can punish a student for not following their rules, schools tell them that they must obey. What student or their family wants to get into such a battle? None. So that leaves an overbearing school administration an avenue of control. When they have their own campus police that report to the administration rather than to a public LE agency the control is extended.
My generation did not have to face such problems. The GI bill brought millions of former service men and women to the campus. These are people who looked down the barrel of a gun or took cover from an artillery barrage or a bomb attack. They were not about to take any kind of crap from a school. If the school tried it, they were met by men who would opposed them in person and usually not alone.
All publicly funded colleges and universities should publish their rules to the State Attorney Generals office for legal approval. Those that try to develop illegal workarounds should be stopped immediately. No college or university should control a law enforcement agency. It belongs to the local community where the people have a say in how the police respond.
“WTOP: #JesseMatthew’s lawyer in Charlottesville and Albemarle cases re: #HannahGraham will NOT represent him in Fairfax County case” @AugensteinWTOP
mcdaniel… why does that name keep popping up? and in what context? there is a niggle in the back of my mind…