Blink On Crime -

McStay Family Murders: Charles Chase Merritt Arrested In The Murders of McStay Family

Posted by BOC Staff | Chase Merritt,Chubba McStay,Dan Kavanaugh,Gianni McStay,Heather McFadden,Jonah McStay,Joseph McStay,McStay,Michael McFadden,Michael McStay,Patrick McStay,Summer McStay | Friday 7 November 2014 11:55 am

This is a developing story, please check back for details.

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Comments (580)

580 Comments

Rose says:

November 12, 2014 at 5:13 pm

http://m.utsandiego.com/news/2014/nov/12/chase-merritt-arraignment/
Silly, he was far better off with a public defender than hiring a local
Victorville defense attorney. PD would have to give him seasoned
Capital murder counsel & adequate resources, & there’d be no charge.
This seems to me the stupid decision if a man who
thinks he’s innocent & thinks a “regular” lawyer he spent money on
would best prove it.

Ponce was already retained in his traffic issues et al since 2011. I suspect he is waiting to know the evidence against him to see what he can leverage.
B
Alli says:

November 12, 2014 at 5:19 pm

Thank you, Blink.

Chase pleaded not guilty today. Robert Ponce has been retained at his defense lawyer.
Rosie says:

November 13, 2014 at 8:48 am

The shopping mall where the car was left is very close to the trolley station, he could very well have taken the trolley to downtown San Diego, and then catch either a bus or Amtrak to Fallbrook.

Agreed, but I am more interested in how he hid the vehicle for 4 days which does not start pinging there until after he would have had to be long gone for the one person scenario to work.

B
Rose says:

November 13, 2014 at 10:18 am

It shows remarkable stupidity in a capital murder case to hire a one man firm who
tries all civil & criminal causes known to our Courts, and pay him an hourly fee just
to read 900 pp of evidence, rather than accept an experienced PD. In the Charlottesville
defendant, The Fairfax Judge was quite right to appoint the PD as co-Counsel
& lead in the Mathew case. This Counsel choice sets up a mistrial, quick plea, or
ineffective assistance of Counsel scenario imo.

Oh we agree, as we know, counsel cannot solicit clients of represented individuals. My guess is that Ponce is shopping the case a la Baez style. I do not yet know if Ponce is even death qualified.
B
Rose says:

November 13, 2014 at 10:53 am

geeze, I forgot how the prospect of notoriety
& all that flows from it ($, fame) motivates
some to rush to the Courthouse to sign up
a highly frightened inmate with no one to turn to.

Don’t. I know of at least 5 individuals that either have or are shopping book deals and other media rights as we speak- none lawyers, however, you get the idea.
B
Birger says:

November 14, 2014 at 6:26 pm

Blink says – Don’t. I know of at least 5 individuals that either have or are shopping book deals and other media rights as we speak- none lawyers, however, you get the idea.

That makes me incredibly sad for Summer, Joey, Gianni and Joey Jr. I can imagine them looking down at all of the people trying to profit off of their brutal murders and being so incredibly sad. I can only hope that they have found peace and calm with our Lord.
Audie says:

November 16, 2014 at 1:17 am

Do they have Chase’s phone pings for the time that they said the SUV was likely left near the border? Was Chase’s phone somewhere completely different?

I can only discuss that in the abstract. Chase’s cell pings are not of substantive evidentiary value in this case.
B
Mom3.0 says:

November 16, 2014 at 3:35 am

If Merrit is the killer 0 then his Daily Mail interview did him in-
If he isnt the killer then his Daily Mail interview did him in

The question of whether he had help rings in everyones mind-

Was this planned was someone in on the planning
Did someone help to kill the family
Did someone help to clean up
Did someone help in the cover-up
The last becomes a question of whether it was done knowingly and whether the aid was to help obscure a murder or perhaps to aid a loved one who at the time seemed to be wrongly suspected or that the time of murder/car leaving/last phone call was staged for both the “witness” and LE

Merrit himself gave the answer to whether he was helped or not in the Daily Mail interview-

His alibi witness was his girlfriend

snip
‘It has been reported that I spoke to him in the evening, but that isn’t true. He did call me at 8.28pm, but I was watching a movie with my girlfriend, looked at the phone and decided not to answer.

‘When you talk to Joseph it takes about half an hour, so I thought I’d catch up with him in the morning.

‘I didn’t answer that call and I regret it to this day.’ That was the last call made from Joseph’s phone. Around 40 minutes earlier a neighbor’s security camera caught what looked like the bottom of the family’s Isuzu Trooper pulling away from their home.

–
Noone knows who made that call – No one knows when the family was murdered-or why
–
If it was Merrit he may have gave some pretty big clues in this interview-

He says-
‘We both left and went home and I spoke to him on the phone about two or three times on his drive back to Fallbrook, all standard business stuff. The last time I spoke to him was around 6 o’clock.’

–
Did they both return home after that meeting? What more could be said on the drive home about “standard business stuff” that hadnt already been discussed in the business meeting they both had just finished up?
“The last time I spoke with him was around 6:00″

The last phone call from Josephs phone was at 8:48 pm.. this call came in while Merrit was watching a movie with his girlfriend thereby seemingly giving Merrit an alibi

So if Merrit is the killer then it seems we have two possibles girlfriend unknowingly helped to give him an alibi or girlfriend helped at least in the cover-up-

Was girlfriend also the alibi for his claim of going directly home that days he claimed- or did Merrit not have a witness for the time he left the business meeting until the time of the last call or the reported sighting of the izuzu 40 min before the 8:48 phone call?
–

Did Merrit slip up in the interview by truthfully stating the actual time of last speaking with Joseph (before murder) as 6pm – did it take him several hours to stage and clean allowing for the izuzu video showing him in actuality with dead family in tow making it out to dump spot and back home in time to set up alibi call for girlfriend at 8:48

or did a unknown helper not girlfriend leave in car and then make call to Merrit when girlfriend would be present?

Is girlfriends whereabouts accounted for during the entire day…

When remains were found did she realize that her alibi aid was for more than helping her thought to be innocent boyfriend skirt suspicion and help the police catch te real BG- obviously at the time thought not to be her love?

as merrit says in the interview- when asked why he submitted to Poly:

‘But I spoke to my girlfriend about it extensively and decided, you know what, I’m just going to do the damn test, so they can forget about me and focus on something that might actually help find him.’

–
If girlfriend was in on it then at the very least wouldnt LE have arrested her for obstruction of justice
We have heard nothing about or from the girlfriend-
Is she the reason why LE have went forward in their arrest of merrit a year after the recovery of remains was it her realization of being duped or was it LEs re-enterviewing that brought forth such realizations-

It seems she would be at least part of the key though- yet we have heard nothing…

–

Merrit s daily Mail interview e may have also gave an insight into motive-

Summer was a very jealous person and she didn’t like anybody from outside of the family taking up Joseph’s time and attention……’He would often drive up to my house in Rancho Cucamonga and we would go to his favorite restaurant up there.

‘All through the meal he would be getting calls from Summer, he would try to ignore them and have a good time, but eventually he would have to break off and speak to her.

‘And she had one hell of a temper. I remember once I went round to their house to fix Joseph’s washing machine. It got to mid- afternoon so I ordered some pizza for the family.

‘Myself and Joseph sat down at one table and the boys sat at another separate one, where Summer had put out little plates with a slice on each and a knife and fork.

‘I grabbed a slice with my hand and started eating. Summer went absolutely crazy she started swearing and cursing, saying I was teaching her children bad manners.

‘I couldn’t believe it, but I just had to sit there and take it. Joseph didn’t say anything, he adored her and to a certain extent, he did what he was told. I knew their relationship and didn’t blame him.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2510247/Prime-suspect-McStay-murder-mystery-breaks-silence.html
—–

I am still not 100% certain they have the right guy..Ill wait to hear the evidence-

If Merrit isnt the killer then his Daily Mail interview did him in-

If he is the killer then his Daily Mail interview was his downfall and the question still rings out did he have help

AJMO Peace

The more I read his quotes- the more I believe his feelings about Summer are a larger consideration for this outcome than anyone thinks. Interesting.

B
Lyndsay says:

November 16, 2014 at 10:03 pm

B – as you note, he seems particularly fixated on Summer in his interviews.

Think there was sexual jealousy involved with either of them? (He was in love with Joseph OR with Summer?) that makes this, as you note, more personal than financial?
I’m still trying to wrap my mind around including the children is such a scenario if it is personal. Killing the children fits a revenge/personal motive. Financial does not.
We know this guy had a criminal history, but it did not appear to be a violent criminal history. I guess a con’s a con’s a con, but I’m wondering if there is unreported or unknown violence in his background that will come out.
Have exes been interviewed? Family members? What do we know about CM’s personal life?
I’m just trying to understand how one goes from financial crimes to murdering a family. It’s a big jump. As an experienced con he would surely know how to rip these people off without violence. He’s been to jail before, I don’t see him wanting to go back. Unless anger and rage overcame his common sense.

Statistically- no, a con with no precursors in his background does not “off” a family of 4 in cold blood and benefit from his master plan, only to be fired within months, and keep it hidden through 2 LEA’s to include the FBI, for nearly 4 years. It is a first for that, but anyone who has studied homicidal motivation at the case level will tell you the exception is often the rule. That is possible. I mean to say that is possible given the known information that this case can be incongruent with any other. The preliminary hearing is going to be our first glimpse- it will be as general as possible and I suspect the state will seek a gag order. Regardless, the trajectory of this case will be clearer following the prelim. I note there is no indictment.
B
GraceintheHills says:

November 17, 2014 at 1:15 am

“I was definitely the last person he [Joey} saw.”

We will hear that quote over and over in trial.

That is, if this goes to trial. This family has been through hell and in California it can take up to three years before a capital case goes to trial.

Regarding Summer and Chase: It is pretty clear how Merritt felt about her. He continued to bash her even after she was dead for THREE YEARS. So, I think it is fair to say that she provided rocket fuel for this alleged murderer. He could have seen her as competition and someone that could get Joey to sever their business relationship. I wouldn’t be surprised if Summer’s skull revealed she was overkilled.

The DA mentioned the “main” weapon being something common that could have been found in the house or brought into the house by perp. I suspect it may be a hammer or baseball bat. Was the other weapon a ligature? Would not surprise me.

Now we know that Joey’s and Merritt’s relationship was “not so rosy” in the last year and that Joey was looking into getting a warehouse in Fallbrook and hiring another welder. Joey had been receiving complaints about Merritt’s work, and was not happy about it. So, that certainly could have been motive considering Joey was getting ready to sign an up to 9 million dollar contract for even more water features.

I think girlfriend/common-law wife will be a witness for the prosecution.

Grace- where are you seeing Joey was looking into finding another warehouse/welder?

B
GraceintheHills says:

November 17, 2014 at 1:28 am

Audie says:
November 16, 2014 at 1:17 am

Do they have Chase’s phone pings for the time that they said the SUV was likely left near the border? Was Chase’s phone somewhere completely different?

I can only discuss that in the abstract. Chase’s cell pings are not of substantive evidentiary value in this case.
B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Blink, not sure why Chase’s cell phone pings would not be of evidentiary value in this case. Why do you think they wouldn’t be? I would think the DA would want to have an analysis of Merritt’s phone records and the locations of pinging.

And, sorry for the curiosity but why can you only discuss this in the abstract? Are you under contract and working on this case? You mentioned you are in law school, right?

Lots of questions. Just want to see justice for this family.

Grace- it is my theory that Merritt had more than one phone after reviewing Joey’s cell records in detail. I am skeptical that the “burner” I am referring to was traced or trackable since SBCSD got this case. There are very strict preservation requirements for cell carriers. I am not contracted or retained by any direct or indirect party in this case, but I have had access to proprietary information and I have passed some findings on to investigators (involving the suspect) that may or may not be discoverable. If I was working on this case, my practice would preclude me from writing on the case or commenting on it publicly.

Like you, I very much want justice for the McStay family et al. Realizing that justice can be subjective, I would expand my point to say that in my view justice is defined by a solid prosecution that offers guilt beyond a reasonable doubt which has been met by a zealous defense accordingly.

Academically- I am not alone when I say that with very few facts in the quiver here- there is a reason that every analyst, every journalist, every interviewer (add in whatever I missed trying to be succinct) is amplifying the question- how could one person be responsible ( and all that ensues, btw because that will come in) for such an atrocity when the DA states publicly that he does not know all the facts of how it happened, and that the investigation into the motivation of 3 of the victims is ongoing. I am going to admit (in the abstract) that in my work, I have experienced sloppy prosecutions as of late, and this may be my very conditioned response. Again- from a study perspective- if one puts this entire case in “the cloud”- there is no other like it (considering the whole cloud) with one offender.

O/T:To be considered for my desired law school and curriculum, I had to revisit my undergrad work to qualify and to finish my post grad. (unconventional and time consuming but is what it is) I am pre-law from crim justice convert. I remain locked in my own bitter debates on the issue as it benefits my practice as an analyst that I do not continue on. I wonder if DH has thoughts?? lol

B
Jack says:

November 17, 2014 at 10:09 am

Blink – can you tell us or even hint at what type of evidence ties Merritt to the murders and shows that they occurred in the home? During the CNN special last night, they said that numerous people went into the home before it was declared a crime scene. I find it hard, if not impossible, to believe that there would be no evidence inside if the murders occurred there. I also find it hard to believe he acted alone. The only thing that would make sense given LE’s story is that CM somehow rendered them all unconscious and got them out of the house by himself. Do you think that’s true or that LE has a strategy around saying publicly that he acted alone?

It is my understanding that the physical/direct evidence in the case in chief against Merritt ( were I to evaluate it) is forensic evidence obtained from the grave sites. That chain of evidence if you will, starts there. It was the probable cause to get a new warrant on a house that was served multiple warrants previously, was compromised, and currently occupied after being renovated- for some time.

Chris Fischer, the lead investigator said it best- “There was no smoking gun.” That phrase, in context, tells me (investigator speak) that no singular piece of evidence before or after the bodies were located is going to convict Merritt. The totality of the evidence, in SBCSD will.

There is a fat difference in the concept that “It could not have been anyone else” vs “This is the murderer of 4 people known to him, including toddlers, and there never was nor is there evidence another individual could have been involved, as the court will demonstrate.”

I am told that the forensics show a clean up, with no typeable or positive hemo test. There is no detectable blood products in the home. I guess we will see how sound my source is.
B
Mom3.0 says:

November 17, 2014 at 2:27 pm

Re blink #comment-2236891:
The more I read his quotes- the more I believe his feelings about Summer are a larger consideration for this outcome than anyone thinks. Interesting.

B
—-

I agree with you Blink in his interviews He speaks extremely kindly about Joseph he barely mentions the children and his speech about all things Summer is almost seething as if he can still barely contain the venom-I think if Merrit did this it was a crime based in rage it was personal and it was directed at Summer and not Joey

Take his January 2014 interview with MOnline discussing his upcoming new book chronicling his views on Josephs and Summers relationship troubles

snip

He said: ‘Summer was a very self-centered, self-obsessed person with an awful temper. She really didn’t like anyone being around Joseph and the family other than herself and a very small, selective group of people.

‘Despite all the time I spent with Joseph, I had no kind of relationship with her. He would often come up and visit me and we would go out for dinner with my wife at the time, but Summer never came.

‘And when we were out she would call him constantly. He would try to ignore it at first, but she would call and call and eventually he would have to go off and deal with whatever drama there was.

‘She would shout at him in the privacy of their own home, but then put on a front like he was the most important person in the world when they were in public.

‘She would fawn over him and call him, ‘her Joseppi’. She was obsessed with the idea of being Italian and that was her name for him.

‘But despite that public front, I know, prior to their disappearance they had not had sex in more than a year. Basically, she wouldn’t let him near her. They slept in the same bed, but were never intimate.

‘Obviously that was a real problem for Joseph and he used to talk to me about it regularly. He told me when they had first got together they had a great sex life, but she just lost interest.

‘The impression I get is that Summer would use her sexuality to get attention and get what she wanted. Everything with her seemed to be done for gain.’

Merritt added: ‘If I’m honest, I have no idea why he put up with it. He was such a great guy and he got his share of female attention. I remember one woman in particular was all over him for a while.

‘But he would not even entertain the idea of cheating on her. He had a son from a previous relationship, who he didn’t get to see much of and he was terrified that would happen with his two boys if he left Summer.

‘He always said, “I have messed up one family before, I will not be unfaithful and ruin another one”.

‘And if the truth be told, despite everything, he was still infatuated with Summer. I know the thought of leaving her crossed his mind, probably quite a lot, but he would never actually go through with it.’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2533474/EXCLUSIVE-McStay-family-husband-feared-wife-POISONING-disappeared-dead-desert-claims-explosive-new-book.html

This book was to include the notion that Summer was poisoning Joseph…yet interestingly enough Merrit again and again makes mention of Joseph often meeting him for lunch and dinner-

Even on Josephs last day after meeting for lunch w/Chase he spoke to his Mom :

Mrs Blake described Joseph’s symptoms as something similar to vertigo and said he complained of feeling ‘woozy’.

‘When I last talked to my son, on February 4, he said he still didn’t feel good,’ said Blake, adding that she had provided the Sheriff’s Dept with information on Joseph’s health problems.

end snip

So if Merrits hope was to sully Summers image further by bringing up possible poisoning while skirting suspicion himself – then he didnt quite get there…

AJMO peace
Mom3.0 says:

November 17, 2014 at 3:41 pm

Re Lyndsay says:
November 16, 2014 at 10:03 pm

You wrote in part:

Think there was sexual jealousy involved with either of them? (He was in love with Joseph OR with Summer?) that makes this, as you note, more personal than financial?

—Interesting thought Lyndsay -was sexual jealousy a motive? there were rumors (although I am not sure if merrit himself was behind them) that Summer may have been cheating on Joseph- could that someone have been Merrit or did merrit wish it to be?

He did say:

‘The impression I get is that Summer would use her sexuality to get attention and get what she wanted. Everything with her seemed to be done for gain.’

_
well if she was using her sexuality for attention and for gain then it seems it wasnt for Joseph’s attention as he was very ill since August often bedridden according to family and friends including Merrit…

So could merrit have seen her as playing to him?- possibly

If jealousy was involved between Merrit and Joseph-It seems it wasnt sexually motivated but motivated by Merrits friendship with Joseph- and more than likely revolved around an ending to the friendship/business partnership or a belief that it was ending…

Merrit said:
‘I am a normal man, trying to take care of my three kids and I have lost a very good friend. I wasn’t Joseph’s best friend, but he was mine. I didn’t have many people close to me, but we shared a lot. He told me a lot of things he didn’t tell anyone else.

You asked:
What do we know about CM’s personal life?

Not much: We know he has 3 children we also know he has a brother who doesnt believe he is involved…

According to Merrit he lost everything:
snip-

‘Joseph’s family are the ones who lost the most from all this, no question. But financially I lost everything. I was manufacturing all the waterfalls he was selling and I lost my entire business. Without his sales, I had nothing. I went bankrupt very soon after he disappeared, It killed me financially. I even split up with the mother of my three kids because of the stress.

You wrote:
I’m still trying to wrap my mind around including the children is such a scenario if it is personal. Killing the children fits a revenge/personal motive. Financial does not.

—
I agree about the killing

Merrit said:

Still the children may have been nothing more than a potential obstacle he had to overcome once the rage subsided- They were potential witnesses – if they heard or saw any part of the crime or the clean-up could Merrit- whom they knew and could recognize by sight chance letting them live?
Another scenario still in play – is that potentially the children were used as a means to control the parents-

Its like Blink said if Merrit did this.. then the more quotes you read the more his feelings seem to come into the light and the better focus you get on the possible whys

Perhaps thats why his book was entitled – Afraid of the Light – or it could be that his words brought LEs attention to him wrongly and he just seems the easiest or likeliest suspect to pin it on now…

I leave you with this enlightening Merrit quote
Snipped DM article

‘I may not be the nicest person in the world, but I have only ever had Joseph’s best interests at heart. That’s all I have ever cared about, despite what had been written about me.’

-
My prayers for the family left behind
AJMO peace
Mom3.0 says:

November 17, 2014 at 4:21 pm

Re GraceintheHills says:
November 17, 2014 at 1:15 am
you wrote:

Regarding Summer and Chase: It is pretty clear how Merritt felt about her. He continued to bash her even after she was dead for THREE YEARS. So, I think it is fair to say that she provided rocket fuel for this alleged murderer. He could have seen her as competition and someone that could get Joey to sever their business relationship. I wouldn’t be surprised if Summer’s skull revealed she was overkilled.

__ Yes I agree he does speak ill of Summer yet He still tries to temper it with add ons such as these:

But he refuses to accept she was capable of any of the sinister allegations that have been leveled against her.

and
They were not the perfect couple, but then who is.
and
But despite all of that, they loved each other and I think it would be crazy to suggest Summer had something to do with all of this. After all what couples don’t have their problems.’

and
‘I don’t want to upset anyone, I just want people to know the truth. The McStay’s were not perfect like some people would have you believe, but they weren’t criminals or drug runners like others have said, they were just a normal family. Well, a normal family other than Joseph, who was the nicest man I have ever known.’
–
I also agree that he might have blamed Summer for any possible severance of business partnership/friendship which to Merrit both were intertwined:
‘I was extremely close to Joseph. Our lives were intertwined both on a business and a personal level.

Interesting to me is that Joseph was recommitting himself to his marriage and family and had just recently in the days before found a family counselor-

snip
http://mcstayfamilyjustice.blogspot.com/2014/07/buried-secrets-who-killed-mcstay-family_2.html

While Merritt’s theory sounds farfetched, there was evidence there was trouble in Joseph and Summer’s marriage. Just days before they disappeared, Joseph had lined up a family counselor for help.

BLAKE: Right after New Year, he had called me and said “Mom, can you help me find a good, you know, counselor and stuff. I want to get my family back on track.” So at the end of January when we finally met one that we thought everybody, you know, would feel comfortable with, four days later, they’re poof (ph).

- 4 days later they disappear- could the meeting w/Merrit have been a way of trying to let him down easy?

Was he a big part of the “troubles” of what Summer thought contributed to their problems? Could Joseph have made the first step in walking away from Merrit that fateful day…could Merrit have gone pleading to Joseph to reconsider during the phone calls “on the drive home”
Could the final 6:00pm call have been Summer or Joseph finalizing the break- then Merrit decides to try in person… trying to get summer to let Joseph stay his friend and business partner…or trying to get Joseph to see the blame as Summer? and then an argument ensues?

-Cont prt 2
AJMO peace

Mom 3.0

It is my understanding that the family counselor was geared toward the concerns leveraged during the CPS complaint. Because they still deserve their privacy I will be vague, but one of the boys was thought to be acting out as a result, and it was Joey’s/Summer’s hope that their blended family would benefit from counseling and address the issues proactively. I do believe strongly that Summer was aware of some financial strains between Joey and Merritt and at the end of this, I do believe we will learn that Summer was the impetus ultimately- at least as seen by Merritt.

You have to need funds very quickly, of a substantial nature to be willing to kill a family of four over it when you should know you will be the primary suspect- which until he passed a polygraph, he was.

I do not buy the concept that he killed this family for future waterfall business whatsoever.
B
Mom3.0 says:

November 17, 2014 at 4:44 pm

Sorry for being a board hog- Last one for while
Part 2
Re Grace
you wrote:
The DA mentioned the “main” weapon being something common that could have been found in the house or brought into the house by perp. I suspect it may be a hammer or baseball bat. Was the other weapon a ligature? Would not surprise me.

—In the first days after the remains were found there was take of a ligature- an extension cord or electrical cord of some sort- used only on one victim IIRC was it rumor? IDK
If true the who would tell alot about the crime poss motivations and sequencing IMO

About the weapon-

All good thoughts Gracey – you know i took note of the pics accompanying the DM interview “prime suspect” 2 in particular-

1-The kitchen area- notice what appears to be a 5-20 pound hand weight
laying on the floor near the sliding doors- seemingly out of place but might have been used to weigh down a dropcloth-if it is a weight– might this be a clue to weapon used- these are usually in pairs- wheres the other one and where are the dropcloths were they missing?-

2 the outside of the home— the driveway sits level next to the front door- next level grass…wouldnt be too hard to drive up on lawn and back vehicle relatively close to doorway- if done that would make it easier for only 1 person to secret bodies/evidence out to vehicle

- there was said to be ample evidence at the remains scene – time will tell about injuries etc-

Still looking for answers with ya Grace

AJMO peace
Done-
GraceintheHills says:

November 17, 2014 at 5:26 pm

Blink, first of all, I want to thank you for putting up with and answering my questions. I could tell from from some of your instructors that we had taken many of the same criminal justice courses. I think it is wonderful that you are pursuing a career in law and am wishing you the very best!

Regarding the information about Joey and Chase not getting along toward the end, and Joey perhaps being in the market for hiring another welder and possibly getting a warehouse in Fallbrook: this information was mentioned by Patrick McStay in the updated Randi Kaye special on CNN.

Thank you kindly dear GITH. Understood.
B
GraceintheHills says:

November 17, 2014 at 6:44 pm

Blink, you know I had to run this by DH. I started by telling him how there was no way one person could come in and kill all four, and he (of course) disagreed and said:

“Suspect, once let into the home, could have caught Joey off guard with a hard blow to his head from behind. If Summer was in a different part of the house (?upstairs) attending to one of the boys (like changing a diaper right before bath) he could have taken care of her relatively quickly. Of course, the children would have been unable to put up any resistance at all.

We have no idea how in the world this alleged miscreant was able to dispose of the bodies, but like most virtually all felons he did something really stupid. He buried them in an area not far from his home.

I agree that it is POSSIBLE or rather not impossible, but improbable it could happen that way considering one of the adults was also tied up. I remain open-minded, but I hope Merritt opts for a full confession so all of the facts are clear. There was more than one person that was positive Joey was never coming back in the immediate days following February 4th.

To the point about where the bodies were buried- agreed, typical post-offense behavior.

B
GraceintheHills says:

November 17, 2014 at 8:25 pm

Mom3.0 says:
November 17, 2014 at 2:27 pm

Hi Mom3.0, I have never read the interview with Merritt that your quotes are from. Does anyone have a link? I can’t believe I totally missed this.

He is a twisted piece of work and unlike anything I have come across before. Parasite comes to mind.
Rose says:

November 17, 2014 at 9:39 pm

wrt “Lyndsay says:
November 16, 2014 at 10:03 pm
B – as you note, he seems particularly fixated on Summer in his interviews.”

I don’t see why saying Summer could be a pain in the A…, whether by Merritt or a spouse, is a red flag.
Some women (ie me) just are; any men (esp an impacted bus partner) would just say so.
imo comment is not atypical of Merritt’s socio-economic demographic.
—-
wrt “in my view justice is defined by a solid prosecution that offers guilt beyond a reasonable doubt which has been met by a zealous defense accordingly.”

hurrah!
————-
“O/T:To be considered for my desired law school and curriculum, I had to revisit my undergrad work to qualify and to finish my post grad. (unconventional and time consuming but is what it is) I am pre-law from crim justice convert. I remain locked in my own bitter debates on the issue as it benefits my practice as an analyst that I do not continue on. I wonder if DH has thoughts?? lol
B”

@Blink. I am neither DH nor as wise and good nor experienced as GitH.
However, grandiosely, I will opine. My easiest A and best fit in law school was crim law, and I had the best of training, but I fell in love with securities law thanks to Joel Seligman, with whom I had 2 courses, & an internship in Enforcement at the SEC. Then with bio clock ticking I opted for another plan.

In my opinion, strongly, for your crîminal case analytic work, law school is not only unnecessary but a distraction. In your shoes, I would focus on investigation-related (LE) forensic analysis, wherever au courant CEUs come from.
However, front-line Criminal Court internships could be valuable, but law school is not necessary for same. If you just are driven to higher ed, think doctorate. Then you too could be a Fonesca. Rather than a Camblos or Frink.

Thank you, and you are right of course.
B
Rose says:

November 17, 2014 at 9:48 pm

Chase Merritt needs a competent public
defender yesterday.

What dna was in the car at border? per
your source?

Nothing foreign.
B
A Texas Grandfather says:

November 18, 2014 at 10:22 am

In reading the information found in the book by Mom3.0 and the CNN interview information from Grace it is very possible that Chase Merritt was describing the actual conditions in the home regarding Summer’s behavior. This type behavior should have been observed by others that were family on both sides. One persons view and no other would lead to the likelihood that the person making the claim was the one with the major problem and not Summer.

I have been around two women in my lifetime that behaved as Merritt described. They lived in a miserable condition as did their children and husband. The children were their children as if the husband contributed nothing. If they didn’t like what you thought of them, they would verbally attack you and create situations to make you look bad.

Investigators should check out this allegation by Merritt regarding Summers behavior. If it turns out that he is correct, it could be the prime reason that the family was killed. Rather than walking away from the situation, Merrit destroyed Summer and her boys for something she did and he couldn’t handle.
GraceintheHills says:

November 18, 2014 at 10:25 am

Blink, I should have been a bit more detailed in what DH said but have spared details in the event family is reading here. It involves one adult being bound. I strongly suspect that Merritt’s hatred of Summer fueled what happened after Joey was assaulted.

This above is only an opinion. I do think SBCSD was meticulous and have put together a strong circumstantial case that supports any direct evidence they have.

I agree they have a very strong case of Merritt’s guilt. I am not so sure they have a strong set of facts that proved this occurred at the home, and that there were not multiple crime scenes and not just the home/burial scenario. That is leaving too much on the table for my taste in a case like this.
B
Jack says:

November 18, 2014 at 1:59 pm

Blink – You say, “You have to need funds very quickly, of a substantial nature to be willing to kill a family of four over it when you should know you will be the primary suspect- which until he passed a polygraph, he was…. I do not buy the concept that he killed this family for future waterfall business whatsoever.”

Do you have any idea what Merritt would have needed money for so quickly? And did killing the family get him any?

To cover up theft and yes, it did.
B
Alli says:

November 18, 2014 at 3:47 pm

Rose says:
November 17, 2014 at 9:48 pm
Chase Merritt needs a competent public
defender yesterday.

What dna was in the car at border? per
your source?
——————-
Nothing foreign.
B

——————–

Blink, you said “nothing foreign” was found in the Trooper regarding DNA. Then do you have any idea why SDSO would have held on to the Trooper for so long and then transferred it to SBSD when they took over the case? Why wasn’t the Trooper returned to JM’s family, if nothing was found within it that was case related? Also, SDSO labeled the case as voluntary missing. Why hold onto evidence if they thought the family voluntarily disappeared? It makes no sense.

Because technically it was impounded. If it were evidence it would be required to be in the evidence bay with controlled conditions and protocols. That does not mean that SBCSD did not utilize updated forensics that provided a different result- that would surprise me given the length of time and conditions AND don’t forget the FBI had the case from April to November. LE had no basis for granting property to anyone from the McStay family that it was not titled to.
B
GraceintheHills says:

November 18, 2014 at 3:49 pm

A Texas Grandfather says:
November 18, 2014 at 10:22 am

@ATG: Yes. I have always wondered if Merritt was stealing from the company and Summer threatened to call in LE. I don’t think Merritt wanted to go back to prison, and it would have likely been for a much stiffer sentence this time. It would have been a motion to revoke plus new charges. Shutting up two potential adult witnesses is not an unusual motive. As far as the children, I think Merritt saw them as an extension of Summer, nothing more. If you notice, he had virtually nothing to say about the poor slaughtered children. He is a father of three and should know how utterly devastating that would be for the surviving extended family. Nope. Instead he choose to keep bashing Summer as if she is still a threat or irritant to him. This postmortem dynamic is as fascinating as it is tragic, and not something you see very often. I have seen it is men who kill their wives.

I think if it were simply a matter of needing cash, Joey might have forwarded some to him. But, here’s a twist: I have read that Joey overpaid Chase and Joey may have tried to collect the money from him that day.

Joey collected a $15K check from Chase and it was deposited into his account that afternoon It is true that it was in part for overpayment.
B
Alli says:

November 18, 2014 at 3:52 pm

Blink, you responded to a previous post saying Chase needed money to cover up a theft and he did get money from killing the family.

Can you share… theft of what? And, did Chase steal money from the McStay home after he killed the family? Or did somebody pay off Chase to harm the family?

Chase was paid money from the family ( obviously they had no idea he was involved and were trying to keep the business afloat) until Susan Blake realized he stole money- then he was fired.

I do not believe Chase was paid by any outside party for his involvement.

Yes, there are a few more specific details I cannot discuss.
B
Rose says:

November 18, 2014 at 6:47 pm

Blink, would Mr-In-Need-of-$ have a partner-in-need?

I don’t know that with any certainty Rose, except to say that in my opinion Merritt was indebted to the wrong person or people and Joey was no longer going to be his ticket out of that- not alive anyway. I want to be clear that I do not believe Joey did anything untoward or was involved knowingly with anyone who was. I do not believe he would have risked his family in that way.
B
Rose says:

November 18, 2014 at 6:58 pm

my eye is on:
“There was more than one person that was positive
Joey was never coming back in the immediate
days following February 4th.”

Yes ma’am. No other interpretation of that evidence I am aware of- perhaps that has been addressed in the current investigation.
B
GraceintheHills says:

November 18, 2014 at 9:33 pm

Mom3.0:

Merritt says, “Well, a normal family other than Joseph, who was the nicest man I have ever known.”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The moment I saw this quote I remembered what Perry Smith told Truman Capote about his victim, Herbert Clutter:

“I thought he was a very nice gentleman. Soft-spoken. I thought so right up to the moment I cut his throat.”

Excellent observation Grace- my take on that was that he meant it in every way. In every consciousness of guilt way.
B
Alli says:

November 20, 2014 at 3:02 pm

Blink, thank you for responding to my previous comments. Now, I have another question or two…
—————
Blink said: Chase was paid money from the family (obviously they had no idea he was involved and were trying to keep the business afloat) until Susan Blake realized he stole money- then he was fired.

My question: So then Chase was fired by Mike and Susan after the family disappeared? Did Chase steal money from EIP prior to the disappearance or after?

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
B
Audie says:

November 21, 2014 at 10:38 am

Were the funds Chase needed for other people he owed like his own gambling debts or something or was it money pertaining to Joseph.
karl westerberg says:

November 21, 2014 at 1:06 pm

Just a question as I dont live in the US:
How is it possible that so many different people seem to be able to withdraw money from Joes companys account, or his private one (too)?
Where I live in Europe its not possible.
Its only the person with the right to sign the account that can do it.
Did they all have that right?
Or were there a bunch of people falsifying his signature or having access to his codes if he had an internet account?

I am not permitted to discuss what names were on Joey’s business or personal accounts- except to say that nobody that withdrew money was authorized to do so and LE never froze them so what I know is that they used DK in the beginning based on his access ( also not a partner or stake-holder but a subcontractor)and after that I can’t be sure- it was largely managed via paypal for disbursements.
B
Eloise says:

November 21, 2014 at 8:58 pm

Huh.

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/McStay-Family-Merritt-Suspect-Health-283374711.html

Does he have a pacemaker? How long has he had it I wonder?
You know where this is going.
B
tiberious says:

November 21, 2014 at 10:27 pm

Blink do you mean that they will try to say that Merritt was physically incapable of having killed the family and then burying them?

Yes, I see that query in the queue indeed.
B
Audie says:

November 22, 2014 at 3:00 am

How does it work, does the DA have to say a theory and stick to it such as if they say all were killed in the home and have to prove that – or would they have to say now from the start of their case if what they were trying to get the jury to believe is that one may have been killed outside the home but at least one to three were killed inside the home?
Rose says:

November 22, 2014 at 8:39 am

I don’t think congestive heart failure is treated with a pacemaker, which relates to
electrical impulse regulation, but with medications. Impact on physical ability would only
have been shortness of breath. Didn’t someone say he had a heart attack post-deaths?
CHF can stem at his early age from infections or other sources of weakness such as
substance abuse, or untreated high blood pressure. Likely as an independent contractor he did not take
care of himself, & blood pressure issues if any were overlooked.

In general congestive heart failure is not a stand alone disease without effecting other structures that impact normal sinus rhythms, etc. There was a reason I asked that specifically, lol.
B
karl westerberg says:

November 22, 2014 at 9:49 am

First,tx for the answer B.

Its very satisfying with this blog that mostly people are objective and try to solve or understand what has happened in this case.
And just a few have said that CM already is guilty and I think just one want him already executed.
( Of course I dont know if its because the moderator doesnt accept every comment.)

On other blogs maybe 50 % say CM is already guilty and 20 % want him executed and very well known blogger ( and author ) thinks CM should be executed ” slowly with blunt force”.( Adding, if hes guilty).
I have advised him a method used in countries on the other side of the ocean.
There is this problem of course the regimes in those countries arent that liked in US but what the hxxk….stoning is a good and well tried out method to kill people slowly.
And one could also let the victims families participate so that the revenge is more consummate. (Like they do in Iran …public hanging and give the right to the victims mother to kick away the footstool).

Of course my opinion is totally different and founded on that no verdict , judge or jury are perfect because they are just human beings that can make mistakes.

I just must tell a case from Sweden…one of the worst justice scandals in that country as it is a good example of how police and courts make mistakes and also work in a sort of their own interest.

Its ¤ the Tomas Quick ” case.
TQ confessed 30 murders and was convicted for 8-9 I think and sentenced to life in prison.
But many people didnt believe he was guilty…even some of the victims parents.
TQ had a criminal past, raping a boy I think.

Anyway: After about ten years a journalist wrote a book about the case challenging the evidence , police works and the verdicts and that made the snowball start rolling.

To make a long story short …after a year or two , every verdict was changed to not guilty ( its recently) and now he is a free man but still under probation because of his past as a rapist.

One has shown some films where the police is with TQ on the supposed crime scenes and its surprising to listen to how the police are directing or manipulating TQ what to say.

With a death sentence this innocent man would have been dead many times .

Another well known case is when the prime minister of Sweden was murdered in the street . one evening walking home from the cinema with his wife ( He didnt want any life guards).

In this case the police made a real non professional mistake and the probable murder was first sentenced but after the mistake was found out by the defence he was released in the second instance.

The murder was identified by the prime ministers wife but the police had made the mistake to tell her that the suspect was a drug addict before the line up and it was very easy to see who that was in the line up…

Drop scene…..dont forget these examples you people who dont want fair trials and who believe the justice systems cant make mistakes…..
Alli says:

November 22, 2014 at 11:16 am

Blink, would you ever consider going on Scared Monkeys Radio with Dana Pretzer as the case progresses? Perhaps Patrick would be willing to be interviewed at some point in the furture?

Alli- not sure if you realized or perhaps I misunderstood your question- I am a frequent guest on Mr. Pretzer’s show.
B
Rose says:

November 22, 2014 at 12:34 pm

love to know the reason you asked the pacemaker question.
(and I bet you know the answer)
And maybe that operation figured in to the $ issue.
Rose says:

November 22, 2014 at 12:43 pm

@karl.
do you mean to say my public library’s copious swedish, norweigian, & icelandic crime fiction is untrustworthy as to their depiction of these countries’ foolproof detective standards? I’m disillusioned. Because flaws exist in all our Western criminal jurisprudence, in the US, the Innocence Project & others toil on.

wrt “( Of course I dont know if its because the moderator doesnt accept every comment.)”
I think the moderator accepts every comment, even those wildly in error which response in bold corrects,
unless it is totally slanderous or vilely mean. If she does not accept a comment, she acknowledges receipt
& explains why. Of course one never knows what the Wizard of Oz did behind the veil, but I have
found this site transparent.
karl westerberg says:

November 22, 2014 at 12:49 pm

Some reflections and questions if someone here know the answers.

Ive written before that the McStays seemed to know many criminals or ex criminals.

In some blog they say that Patrick Mcstay also is an ex criminal.(Well ex? criminal….in an interview he said that ,leaving him and MM lone in a room would give the result that only one person came out.(alive I presume he meant.)
1)Why is that? What kind of verdict?

2)PM also says that it was he and JM that founded EIP….
while DK says he was a 50% owner of the same company…
PM says DK is lying.
Who is telling the truth?

3) If PM is telling the truth ;how is it possible that DK could sell the company?

4) I dont know who is guilty . if there are more than one or not, but….I still think without accusing anyone that MM behaved strangely thinking they could have left for a “10d vacay”..leaving food and garbage in the kitchen, and the dogs outside…
The house was in a sort of mess but a family that goes for a planned vacation would never leave what was found in the kitchen, he should have suspected something wasnt normal the moment he saw that and that no one for days could be reached on the phone. ( Of cause one can make the same critic towards the SD- police).

There is a lot of strange behavior and strange facts in this case…now also that the suspect ( who for a long time has suffered from severe heart disease.) would have used blunt force.(
On some other blogs they say hes having heart problems cause hes feeling guilty.Well Ive always suspected my father and grandfather being murders as they both died from heart attacks. At last I got it confirmed from a crime specialist….!)

And that MM in spite of what he found in the house ,didnt have the fantasy to imagine something was wrong…instead he and his mother cleaned up and MM brought the computer and Summers camera to his home…..

People here in this blog start to believe that money wasnt the reason , but some sort of feelings..in this case.
Still a lot of people started withdrawing money very quickly after the disappearance , and others start being interested in the missing familys belongings.

Its almost like a race where many just waited for the start signal and when they heard it , they turned around and start grabbing whatever they could get their hands on.Or was it just so that JM normally gave people money….? And when it stopped coming from him , people just went on with “business as usual”?

Maybe its just coincidences, maybe not..maybe CM did it alone , maybe not….maybe ,if there is a trial with CM ..still alive..we ll find out who is the spider and who are the flies caught in its net.
GraceintheHills says:

November 22, 2014 at 1:06 pm

Eloise says:
November 21, 2014 at 8:58 pm

Huh.

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/McStay-Family-Merritt-Suspect-Health-283374711.html

Does he have a pacemaker? How long has he had it I wonder?
You know where this is going.
B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
One rumor is that he had a heart attack after the murders. Who knows? CHF can definitely cause disturbances in heart rhythm so a pacemaker is a possibility. He does not look sick in the appearances he has made thus far so this is definitely NOT a case of advanced heart failure.

Like Blink said, we all know where this is going. But, he has one very serious problem if he plays the compromised heart patient for the jury. Apparently the man he conned after he allegedly killed the McStay family said he was “very strong.”
A Texas Grandfather says:

November 22, 2014 at 3:10 pm

Is there any known evidence regarding the $15K check CM gave Joey to pay back the overpayment for services? Did this check clear the bank or was it insufficient or a “hot” check?

If it was insufficient, it would have created a cause for revocation of CM’s parole plus a charge for the bad check.

The check cleared and definitely was deposited into Joey’s account.
B
jeff says:

November 22, 2014 at 7:47 pm

CM plays a lot of poker and that’s a good way to get in debt.

It has been my experience with persons that have a gambling issue- it traverses games and behaviors frequently.
B
GraceintheHills says:

November 22, 2014 at 7:50 pm

karl westerberg says:
November 22, 2014 at 9:49 am

Hi Karl, I think many people who are posting their opinions abut this case and this suspect on blogs and other sites are so emotional because two tiny children, ages three and four, were bludgeoned to death and their little bodies thrown in a hole in the desert.

There have been miscarriages of justice and mistakes on both sides of the courtroom and in the jury box. Casey Anthony, whom I am convinced (after listening to all the evidence) killed her toddler, Caylee, was found not guilty when there was enough strong circumstantial evidence to convict. On the other end, there have been men who have been put on death row when they had nothing to do with the crime. Thanks goodness for DNA evidence.

Do you feel like they have arrested the wrong man?
Eloise says:

November 22, 2014 at 9:52 pm

Yes- I don’t know if he has a pacemaker. I could see one getting one after open heart surgery, but otherwise it is not frequent in someone in his condition. Yes- he looks well. If he does have one and had it for years.. it would be interesting to interrogate it and see what it was up to on Feb 4th-lol.
GraceintheHills says:

November 23, 2014 at 1:31 am

Eloise says:
November 22, 2014 at 9:52 pm
Yes- I don’t know if he has a pacemaker. I could see one getting one after open heart surgery, but otherwise it is not frequent in someone in his condition. Yes- he looks well. If he does have one and had it for years.. it would be interesting to interrogate it and see what it was up to on Feb 4th-lol.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eloise, not sure why the pacemaker was brought up, but often pacemakers are implanted in patients who suffer from CHF. I have read nothing to suggest Merritt has a pacemaker.

Karl, you refer to Merritt and say “who for a long time has suffered from severe heart disease.” Not sure where you got this information because no one has said anything about the severity of his alleged CHF or how long he has had it. Also, Joey’s father, Patrick, and his brother, Mike, are victims of this crime.
karl westerberg says:

November 23, 2014 at 2:47 am

First I have to admit that “even” I made a mistake …I said that
“In some blog they say that Patrick Mcstay also is an ex criminal.(Well ex? criminal….in an interview he said that ,leaving him and MM lone in a room would give the result that only one person came out.(alive I presume he meant)”
It should be Chase Merritt (CM) not Michael Mcstay that (MM) wanted to be alone with.
Sorry for that PM if you read this…..
karl westerberg says:

November 23, 2014 at 3:57 am

Graceinthehills: Its true what you say but thats also the reason why you cant have a deathpenalty in a legal system. A case must be able to be reopened if there are new evidence or new scientific methods …and there will come new and better ways of finding the facts or the truth if thats what you want to name it.

( A striking example of that humans are humans and a uniform or title doesnt make a person having higher moral is when the DA in SB is trying to give an important job to a friend ..when there are others more qualified.That doesnt say hes a bad prosecutor but it points at a well known fact that even the sun has it spots.)

I think that one always should be suspicious towards the power and people with power. Thats the reason why there must be independent newspapers and tv channels and the right for people to be anonymous when informing media.

Then about the guilt of Chase Merritt or not: There are a lot of shades and “shady” people and behaviors in this case.Merritt says in some interview that 80-90% of the population are some sort of criminals…maybe hes right…!

One of the most important issues I think is: How the SB prosecutor can prove that the killings took place in the house.I know that you can find DNA in bones hundreds or even thousands of years ago….but in a house I after such a long time I really dont know.

In theory its of course possible but how do you kill four people with blunt force in a house without leaving some trace….

All together I think its going to be a difficult case for the prosecutor and that he has to concentrate on this leaving other issues behind………….