Caylee/Casey Anthony Case: Caylees Autopsy Revelations Part I
Orlando, FL– Under heavy objection last Friday afternoon, Judge Stan Strickland denied the motion on behalf of George and Cindy Anthony to seal Caylee Marie Anthonys autopsy until their daughter Caseys capital murder trial in their granddaughters death. Late Friday afternoon, the Findings of Dr. Jan Garavaglia, Chief Medical Examiner of Orange County were released. In Part I, we explore a few of the notable findings, In Development for Part II, Blinkoncrime will be is creating an interactive 3D Model, incorporating the evidence recovery field, bone disbursement pattern, and anatomical example of the duct tape placement.
The Laundry Bag
Although the report contains a significant amount of anthropologic and forensic data, it does not contain photos or X-Rays, pursuant to the Earnhardt exclusion under Florida Law. Blinkoncrime.com will attempt to offer some observations and in some cases, correct some erroneous information that is being reported in the msm. For starters, the laundry bag picture being circulated, it is incorrect, the image to the left is the correct bag, note the dimensions are exact. The top of this bag does not cinch.
The Duct Tape
I have seen rampant speculation on the duct tape beginning around 15 minutes following the release of the report. 
There are many who believe that Casey Anthony killed her child by wrapping her nose and mouth with duct tape. Allow me to point out the report actually reflects the antithesis of this theory. First, there IS NO TAPE ON THE POSTERIOR of her skull. The only posterior placement of the tape mentioned is still located on the mandible, or face. The tape, which was actually small strips of grey cloth-based, delaminating tape is applied on top of itself, not really feasible with a live toddler. Given the findings that Caylee’s mandible stayed in almost true anatomical position, although slightly posterior and that the hair that was attached to the tape extended from the back of her head and over her head and face, it is likely Caylee was laying on her back when the tape was applied. Henkel makes 2 kinds of duct tape, one is more Industrial grade of adhesive “hot set” over cloth designed for waterproof and outdoor projects. It has not yet been disclosed which formulation was used.
The O Sign
A contributing poster at blinkoncrime gave me something to think about that had not occurred to me. I am on record stating I do believe that Casey Anthony murdered her daughter, and that she will end up pointing the finger at one or both of her parents as a defense strategy.
However, the duct tape never really fit for me. I have always believed it to be a post mortem tactic to stage a kidnapping. I do believe I may have been wrong. Very well known to medical and critical care professionals, there is something called an O effect; occurring at very near death, or shortly following death and before rigormortis sets in.
Some medical people refer to it when the person is very near death or has just died–the jaw drops open. Nothing left to hold the mandible shut. In morgue kits there is a strap that is applied around the jaw to gently close it before rigor sets in. This “O” sign can be very pronounced and unsettling to see first hand. Casey probably wasn’t aware of this and was really spooked by this silent scream and used the duct tape then put a heart sticker on it as a ________
This makes sense to me. The tape is applied in small strips across the nose and mouth areas, catching her hair in the face over the Coronal plane region. One interpretation that may be drawn is that Caylee was lying on her back, upon seeing what Casey had done to her child as evidenced by the relaxed mandible; she attempted to “fix her”. As if covering up the evidence of death on her baby would change things, complete with a heart sticker. No sooner did I arrive at this conclusion on Saturday, did I see Dr.Michael Baden appear on Geraldo Live on Sunday evening bringing up the mortuary kit issue. I am not saying this idea originated here, not that it would be the first time, but it at least tells me there is corroboration within the forensic Medical community as to the premise. The FBI report on the duct tape has not been released. One thing is certain, what I have been stating all along about Casey’s prints being on the duct tape seems foreboding. With multiple strips of tape, chances are there are several. The defense has had this report for months, is this why Casey Anthony retained Todd Macaluso?
Swim Diaper?
There are several remnants recovered that are described as a diaper or pull ip item. However, there are a few that appear to be strictly synthetic. When I read the report, my immediate reaction based on some of the coloring was that it was a “swimmie”, or disposable swim diaper. After mapping out the dimensions and a closer look, I believe it is actually referring to remnants of both a pull up, a reusable swim diaper, or swim floation/assistance device or both, as pictured here:
Paper Towels
Simply stated there is decomposition fluid on paper towels in the plastic garbage bag found in her trunk that came from Tony Lazzarros apartment.
In my opinion, Casey ripped the bag Caylees remains were in when she moved her body into or out of the trunk to her final resting place in the woods off Suburban. The stain in the trunk, emitting the ungodly stench, was the target of the paper towels after Casey returned to TonE’s apartment. She brought the paper towels and garbage bag out with her in an attempt to clean it up and realized almost immediately it was an excerise in futility. Immediately following are her comments to Amy about George Anthony borrowing her car, and the infamous squirrel stowaway story.
Her Clothes
In contrast to only a stitching remnant with a manufactures tag left of her shirt, Caylees shorts were found nearly 2 ft ft away from the laundry bag, in relatively good condition. Based on the reports findings of trunk and femural animal activity and the corresponding recovery area, I am of the opinion that it is not possible that Caylee was wearing those shorts when she was dumped in the woods. Frankly, given the fact that the actual color stripe pattern was discernable versus the condition of the other items, I am suspect Casey was in those woods more than once. How do you get only the collar of a shirt remaining and her shorts completely intact with no noted damage? Lastly, Caylees shoes if she were wearing any, were not recovered.
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Hey, thanks for the lead, Denise! But this is all I found from the Greta transcript:
GEORGE ANTHONY: Oh, specifically. I remember it was 10 minutes to 1:00 on Monday the 16th.
VAN SUSTEREN: So in the middle of the afternoon or early afternoon.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Yes, it was shortly after the lunchtime hour. I was watching a favorite show I like to watch on TV, a news…
CINDY ANTHONY: Before you go to work.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Yes, it’s was a Food Channel thing I watched, so…
VAN SUSTEREN: And was it — you were watching here in the living room.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Right, and I was sitting right here, almost in the same spot, just watching it…
SNIP
How do you find tv listings for Orlando—or for anywhere on the east coast, actually—for June 16, 2008? I mean without going to the library and looking at a newspaper archive. On the Food Channel site I found 13 shows listed for the Food Channel that day but I don’t know what time any of them aired.
It’s such an irrelevant point and I am sure it does not advance the case one bit, but I soooooo want to know…!
To Maura re #543 Excellent material. As a nurse we are taught of the whys of not adding to or changing our documentation. A forensic document examiner with the use of a ESDA & IMED should have been called in to examine the diary. If one did examine & determined the entry was made in 2008 vs earlier…I feel they would have kept the original diary. Just my opinion.
http://harfordmedlegal.typepad.com/forensics_talk/detection-of-medical-char.html
#651, interesting suz, that Cindy was at work on the 16th and not at home with George, but she pipes in to remind him or to add in, ‘before you go to work’. Why would someone need to do that, especially Cindy who as we know from her M&M depo, does not want to speculate on what happens if she was NOT there or did not personally have that information.
Just interesting Cindy, of all people who use the excuse of ‘mistruth by typos’ would add that in to support George’s statement when she was not there.
Kleat, yes indeedy! Cindy is a real helper, isn’t she? Geo seemed like he was going to say a news show before Greta interrupted, but he could have been tongue tied. She helps him some more here (so the backpacks don’t sound alarming, I guess):
GEORGE ANTHONY: Right, and I was sitting right here, almost in the same spot, just watching it, and saw my granddaughter and my daughter come out, you know, with their backpacks and…
CINDY ANTHONY: Like any other day.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Just like a normal thing type thing.
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you know where they were headed with the backpacks?
GEORGE ANTHONY: My daughter said that she was going to work, dropping her daughter off at the nanny’s house, and that was it. I give them both hugs, kisses and saw them go out the door like a typical thing that they’ve — that she’s done.
VAN SUSTEREN: Nothing out of the ordinary?
GEORGE ANTHONY: Just smiles, hugs. Dad, we’ll see you tomorrow because I might be working a little bit late, type deal. And that was it
interesting pickup kleat,but cindy is always doing that(i’d luv to have the time to put a list toghether),she is so desperate,but what also is interesting is it cuts george off and he changes from news to food(probably overanalyzing)but if he continued that it was a news programm that would be would be more verifiable. so (giving too much credit)is the interjection a preplanned steeraway(like a cough signal )?
cause everyone knows the newspaper trick to verifying date.
jg interesting link to me as i have a houdini autograph,but there is a well known houdini forger,always wondered how scientifically it could be tested.SORRY,but couldnt help but think of the emails between shirley and sis,thought surely cindy couldnt,and then your link for nurses.
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5687143/Casey-Anthony-Rick-Plesea-transcript on page 11 line 17 rick says noone in the family knew caylee was”missing”or that casey had even left the house,those emails refute this ,so was rick mistaken?i imo ,i believe rick ,in general ,over shirley,in general(he could be wrong on this one),but imo shirley in general seems to be helping cindy out a wee bit,rick i are the same page when it comes to the emails he sent cindy,echos me exactly when i said there would be episode after episode of me trying to convince casey that it had to be an accident(if not, then murder),there is no babysitter, stop the charade ,he even used the same word CHARADE ,so my instincts are in line with rick ,so i’d have to further check into those emails to make sure they werent doctored,cuz didnt i hear somewhere cindy when and spent time on her mom’s computer.just saying leave no stone unturned when looking for a missing
re: GA and Cooking show times. I know here in AZ you have a couple of different options on show times, If you have satellite provider it depends on whether you have a west coast feed or east coast feed. Meaning I can watch a show an hour earlier than my friend who has cable because my carrier has an east coast feed. Just to add to the level of difficulty in figuring this out
However, it could be entirely different in Florida. Happy hunting.
What if the bag of clothes that kw founf on 8/18 was what the anthonys found in the by on 7/3? This would explain why george lied about when he last saw caylee and what caylee was wearing. If they found the bag on 7/3 this would explain why cindy didn’t blink when kw showed it to her and why george is lying. They would be covering for casey and themselves. Finding that bag with a balloon and caylees clothes and shoes all tied up in a trashbag with some missing pavers and some disturbing dirt piles would have been caseys first tip to the family that caylee was in danger. And explain why george and baez were so interested in kw on 12/11. Just a thought.
Or what if since casey left the smelly car at amscot prior to 7/3 this was to let the family know that caylee was dead and then later the bag was left to give the date of death as the 15th and the location of her body. The stuffed animals might have been pointing them to the pet cemetary.
It really chaps my hide when I think that all these people the anthony’s who were covering and officer cain who was so lazy and indifferent wth wtf up with those people? Was it the dam weather? When others like kw rk lp blink le and other good citizens were out looking for caylee? Cheeseandrice? Wth?
re: #651 & #653:
“GEORGE ANTHONY: Oh, specifically. I remember it was 10 minutes to 1:00 on Monday the 16th.
VAN SUSTEREN: So in the middle of the afternoon or early afternoon.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Yes, it was shortly after the lunchtime hour. I was watching a favorite show I like to watch on TV, a news…”
******************************************************
Interesting, b/c in Tony L.’s taped conversation with Lee on July 29. 2008 (released on 4/6/09, Part 2,@ 9:09 min, http://www.wftv.com/video/19106026/index.html), Lee states that, “my Dad gets ready at 11:45 to go to work at noon…”
Also, Lee states that on July 3rd, it became apparent to him that KC wasn’t in Jax, but in Orlando (Tony L. taped conversation w/Lee on July 29, 2008, released on 4/6/09, Part 3, @ 15:14, http://www.wftv.com/video/19106469/index.html), and Lee states that, “if my Mom had really felt that something was wrong with Caylee, I’d have been all over it” that night (July 3rd). So, I think that Cindy took all that week off to spend with Caylee and get work done on the house, then KC (having avoided her for 2 weeks using texting, which wasn’t lost on Cindy, who was used to talking to her & Caylee by phone) tells Cindy that she’s arranged to have “Jennifer, Zenaida’s roommate” take Caylee to the Character Breakfast, & Cindy goes there to search for Caylee (thinking, “hey, what’s she -a stranger to me – doing with Caylee when I’ve taken vacation to be with her” & doesn’t find her, which makes her extremely suspicious of KC, causing her to get her “enforcer”, Lee, to pressure KC by searching for her. So, I don’t think they found anything in their backyard, but I do think Cindy was keen on KC’s avoidance tactics & knew they were relevant with respect to Caylee. Also, Caylee wouldn’t always wear her sneakers, she’d wear her plastic Crocs – see the 2 photos @: http://media.photobucket.com/image/caylee%20anthony/tuckerm33/caylee_anthony_easter2_287.jpg?o=246, and http://media.photobucket.com/image/caylee%20anthony/sasi2006/Caylee%20Marie%20Anthony/cayleemarie-age25-1.jpg?o=287.
Well casey was certainly giving the family some pretty big clues that she did not have caylee I don’t find that very evasive. She told everyone who asked about caylee that she did not have her. I am not yet certain that the family knew for certain that catlee was dead but I am certain that the family knew something was wrong.
Respectfully oneshot what I’m saying is that if it was the family’s bellief that casey and caylee were going to jax to get some space and bond as cindy stated to ng on 7/17 than why did she not question why caylee was not with casey. This just does not add up to me. And can you point me to the date that cindy was told she was to have caylee while off from work The week of the 7/3?. I have not been able to locate?
Susan,
RE: Deleting or removing “things” from a computer does not mean they cannot be retrieved. (I had to take some advanced classes on this in my line of work). So, even though someone dumped a lot of Casey’s “stuff” off the Anthony’s computer does not mean it is gone.
A quick look:
http://www.akdart.com/priv9.html
More detailed & read about emails, Susan:
http://www.hsskgroup.com/en/art/81/
I have a question that’s probably been covered but I have never read a blog to determine others thoughts until recently…Casey had Tony’s Jeep from June 30th to July 5th. In his statement to LE they focused on her stating she washed the Jeep on her way to pick him up…Does anyone know if LE examined his jeep? I know they were very interested in the car wash at that time.
Also, Susan, as an after thought to the diary…if LE forensic’s performed their tests, then would they not have to release it to the defense to have their experts examine? Would the original be needed as evidence? I know it is stated C & G’s attorney has it, but my experience with a lot of legal professionals; especially the older ones (as friends, not enemies, lol)..is the internet is still a puzzle for the most part to them. (Maybe Baez & Conway arent up to date on the evidently many hours Casey sat at home instead of working…playing on probably a lot of social networks on the computer)…I am sure LE forensics knows about it after borrowing the computers from the Anthony’s for a while…Just my thoughts please any input appreciated.
To poster #589 midwest mom. Thank you for taking an interest in my views. It has been hard for me to follow this case because of similar age and circomstances with casey. I did not and could not and still can’t understand how any women could carry a child for 9 months, feel her kick, go thru hours of labor, watch her grow, learn to laugh walk speak and smile and then kill her. But of this I am certain, cindy and casey do not and did not have the same close relationship that me and my mom have no way. And all this bs between casey and cindy will help along with all the other evidence, wiil get casey lwop or dp.and thanks to suz for your interest in posts as well. Btw anyone else bothered by the reports that when caylee was born they cleaned her up and handed her to cindy? This is outragious behavior on the part of the medical staff of that hospital. I would like to write a complaint letter to the hospital board. Cheeseandrice that’s just wrong..
boo, Casey did not tell everyone who asked about Caylee, that she did not have her! ‘She is with the nanny, we are at Hard Rock Hotel, we (Zenaida, Jennifer, Casey) all chat and the kids play together.’ (paraphrasing). Danny Colomarino (aka Knight) asks Casey about Caylee on July 15th when she goes in to book her next appointment, he hadn’t seen her in awhile, Casey says she’s with the nanny and Casey will bring her into the tattoo shop next Saturday for her newest tattoo.
Casey implied she was in constant contact with ‘the nanny’, she was following her when they had this elaborate accident scenario, hospitalization, concussion, etc etc.
As for George having to prove what tv show he was watching, isn’t going to be an issue– they can draw the last day timeline from other things, and George’s credibility as a truth-teller is in the dumps.
“TeeHee. Leave it to you to bring up one of my biggest questions in this case.. Why did Walsh quit?
B”
That, in response to Maura’s post and comments about Michael Walsh. In case anyone is interested in following up, I just found this posted ‘transcript’ of ‘On The Record’ from July 29th. Haven’t read through it yet, thot I’d share in case someone else is interested in some of the Michael Walsh, attny for Casey Anthony– who ‘quit’.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3111.msg402849
Why did Walsh quit?
Speculation Ans. No. 1: Walsh quite because as a specialist in appeals, the Anthony defense team decided they would definitely win, so no appeals would ever be necessary.
Geeze, why WOULD Walsh quit– he had the story down pat and more!!
And he admitted that Casey did not act alone– so this wasn’t a Cindy idea, it was the defense line from very early on. (he’s got a great new definition for ‘lie’, Cindy called lies ‘mistruths’, Walsh calls them ‘material falsehoods’.)
“WALSH: Yes, and there are other people besides the baby-sitter involved.
KELLY: Can you tell us more, who?
WALSH: No, I can’t tell you who.”
Speculation Ans. No. 2– Walsh decided that framing those other people, like Jesse, for the kidnapping and threats against Caylee’s life etc, was going to cross the line, he would have to suborne perjury to go so far as ‘frame’ an innocent person. Maybe be disbarred?
and the ‘On The Record’ for July 30, Walsh is on air again with more comments:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,395299,00.html?sPage=fnc/ontherecord/caylee
“KELLY: OK. And can you tell me, are those are people who have actually laid eyes on the babysitter or actually spoken with the babysitter?
WALSH: Both. Both.
KELLY: Since the time Caylee went missing?
WALSH: From whenever the babysitter came into the lives up until, yes, right up until Caylee became missing.
KELLY: And can they vouch for the fact that that woman was, in fact, babysitting little Caylee?
WALSH: Sure. Sure.”
Was this lawyer really believing what he was saying??? Yikes… why didn’t he tell authorities who actually could vouch for the fact that ZG was babysitting Caylee. Why didn’t he check with these people beforehand?
I just read Keith William’s OCSO interview on April 22, and he said he found a Father’s Day balloon around August 5 and then found a bag of stuffed animals around August 18. He never said found a bag of clothing in the woods off Suburban Drive or anywhere else.
Cindy always asked to speak to Caylee during the period June 16 to July 15. Casey would tell Cindy that Caylee was with Zanny or Jeffrey Hopkins’s mother (when in Jacksonville) or that Caylee was napping or that Casey didn’t want Caylee to talk to Cindy because she was worried that Caylee would become upset and want to see Cindy.
Maura-
I interviewed Keith twice and corresponded with him frequently over it, articles are on here. Keep in mind that LE is NOT required to disclose unedited portions of interviews. I keep seeing where people are taking some of this discovery as gospel, if this goes to trial I think people are going to be surprised. Compare my interviews with what you read from OCSO as an example.
B
Oneshot did not claim that Casey told Cindy she could watch Caylee during her vacation from June 28-July 6. Oneshot was hypothesizing that Cindy could have taken the week off to be available to see Caylee. I agree that Cindy could have taken that week off so that she could watch Caylee during the day.
I also believe Cindy was fed up after not seeing or being able to speak to Caylee for over two weeks. According to Jesse Grund, Lee claimed Cindy told him she knew Casey was punishing her by not allowing her to see or speak to Caylee. I suspect Cindy was trying to be patient for two weeks while Casey got over her anger, but after more than two weeks had gone by, Cindy lost her temper.
Casey did tell Cindy that Caylee would be at the Universal park on July 3, which is why Cindy drove to Universal on the afternoon of July 3 and called Casey’s cell phone to tell her she was on the grounds and wanted to see Caylee. That’s when Casey told her that she and Caylee had accompanied Jeffrey Hopkins back to Jacksonville.
Did Cindy believe Casey? Of course not. She called Ryan Pasley immediately and asked him if he knew Casey was in town (Jacksonville, where Ryan was going to school). Ryan said no. That’s when Cindy asked him about times when Casey had claimed to be working for Sports Authority along with Ryan, and Ryan admitted that Casey had been lying about having a job there. Cindy told him that Casey is a sociopath and to have nothing to do with Casey.
Cindy then called Lee and told him that Casey had not come by the house for over two weeks. Lee went looking for Casey and reported back to Cindy that from comments left on Casey’s MySpace and Facebook, Casey was still in Orlando, not Jacksonville. However, Lee was never able to find Casey that night, and Casey kept insisting via text messages and phone calls to Leee that she was in Jacksonville, not Orlando.
When Lee told Cindy what he thought, she told him to stop looking for Casey and to let her handle it. Casey is a legal adult with full custody of Caylee, so Cindy had no rights at all to see Caylee or demand that Casey return to the Hopepspring house. The only thing she could have done is call LE and report the theft of the Pontiac (which is registered to Cindy and George) or ask to have her arrested for credit card theft. Cindy wasn’t ready to do that because she had no idea that Caylee was in any danger let alone dead and because she would be risking a breach with Casey that Casey might never forgive Cindy for.
It was only after George and Cindy found that the car had been towed on June 30, after they smelled the car, and after Casey refused to take Cindy to Caylee after Cindy tracked Casey down that Cindy called LE because she wanted the cops to do what she legally could not do – force Casey to produce Caylee.
Maura-
Respectfully, from what source are you indicating Casey told Cindy Caylee was at Universal on July 3rd? My notes indicate she said that over that weekend to friends, but the incident where Cindy was told to pick Caylee up at Universal was June 24, IIRC. I personally believe something was found in the yard that weekend to elevate Cindy “sicking Lee” after Casey. I also believe that is the first time Cindy heard the Zanny story; which quelled her angst until they recovered the car.
B
Yes, LE examined Tony’s jeep in addition to checking out the carwash.
From a certain point of view it may seem wrong but not knowing why makes it hard to blame the medical staff. Doesn’t mean they did it to ignore the mother. Perhaps Cindy reached for baby to show Casey…or several other reasons. Family in the delivery room are usually involved….and if Casey had medication she might not have been able to reach out to hold child.
When I had my first child the labor was long and difficult. As they lifted my son up I was groggy and relieved he was healthy. They handed him to my husband who leaned him close to my face to see clearly.
So it is unclear why it was done in the Anthony case though according to Lee or George there were hard feelings…the question is whyyyy…..I would say look to Cindy and Casey for the problem not the medical staff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rldre7KSPQ
on NifterMedia 4of9-Lee Anthony’s Full Original Police Interview- new Audio Tapes-Casey,Caylee Marie
Really excellent to listen to.
Blink: I have been following this case since day one and I have visited many sites to read the blogs. I must say that this is the most informed and easy to follow website!
Although I read everything I can on this case, the cast of characters are just unbelievable! The one thing that I know I know is you can not believe a thing Casey says. She even lied about her eye color. This must have been a way of life for her.
I am waiting with baited breath for Part II! Many thanks to you and all the posters!
I wanted to make a quick comment on oneshots reply, and also boo’s reply.
Oneshot, I’m impressed with giving another point of view that you gave. I actually wasn’t looking much outside the box on that particular situation. I felt something must have been found, but you’re right, it could have been something such as Cindy putting pieces together, rather than finding something concrete such as a pair of shoes, clothing etc. I was quite impressed with your comment.
boo, for a moment while reading your comment, I thought it might be the age difference between you and I that made my opinion different than yours. Believe me, I completely respect your opinion and point of view on the staff giving Cindy the baby. With that said…. I was also very young when my 1st daughter was born, and about 26 when I had my 2nd. Now being 40yrs. old, I can’t look back and imagine that it would have bothered me in the least if they had given my daughters to my mother to hold first, as she was just as overwhelmed, excited, and filled with love for them as I was. I suppose I can’t say that with any amount of certainty though, considering it didn’t happen back when I was young. As a 40yr. old now, I wouldn’t mind it in the least, as I said, knowing how much my mother loved them, and also knowing that in that split second in time, the baby isn’t bonding immediately with whomever the first person to hold the baby. I guess it certainly seems the right of the mother who just gave birth, but as I get older, I wouldn’t imagine minding that at all, as I look back and see that it was such a wonderful moment in time, one that passes so quickly, I would happily have shared that with my mother. She would have cherished it forever, as would I, knowing that I would ultimately be responsible for my daughter for life, and be the one holding her for the next 18yrs. My what a long time that seemed to be at the time, but now looking back, it passed in an instance it feels like. Anyway, just another point of view to look at. I do agree though, that my mother and I had a totally different relationship that Casey and Cindy, so theres was more a battle or more about spite than anything else. Maybe that’s why I see it differently. Just thought I’d add my 2 cents while on the subject.
I agree with Maura and Oneshot that I don’t believe a piece of evidence was found on July 3rd in the backyard. Cindy was on vacation the week of July 4th. And was home to watch Caylee. This is in her interview from August 4th. Lee verified this in his interview with LE as well. She states that Casey was giving her the run around all week and then on Thursday July 3rd, I think she had it. She went to universal on July 3rd because Casey told her Caylee was with Jennifer, Zenaida’s roommate all week going to universal and the character breakfasts. She had Lee do some checking and they caught her in the lie of being in Jacksonville when she was really in Orlando. I think this is what sparked her concern as to why Casey was keeping her away from Caylee and then Cindy wrote the “My Caylee is Missing” post on myspace. I think if they found something disturbing in the backyard, Cindy would have been demanding right then and there for Casey to come home and bring home Caylee now or else.
What isn’t in the OSCO Keith William’s interviews: (proper and complete credit/sources for Blink’s ‘original’ pieces —–>
http://blinkoncrime.com/category/caylee-anthony-case/keith-williams/
(note that we can still leave comments on this thread under the two Parts of the story– maybe that would be a good place to discuss this thread still?– I hear that Blink DOES read there too….
“Orlando, FL – Keith Williams, the “reporter” named in the August 18, 2008 Police Report as the finder of a Father’s Day balloon, bag full of stuffed animals and small girl’s clothing, including, a sandal, …. an exclusive interview to Blink On Crime…. I have decided to transcribe parts of my interview, so you, the readers, can judge for yourself without my interpretation of Keith’s comments.”
RE: Michael Walsh, who was towing the Casey line/story well up front in the camera spotlight, who said no Casey psychological problems at all, just the stress of handling the situation she found herself, later ‘quit’.
Blink asks us ‘why?’ No real idea, but lots to speculate. One question pops to mind, no evidence mind you, but would he have been concerned about being ‘paid’ and even more importantly, ‘who/how’ of the payments? Did Michael Walsh quit before or after there were complaints to the Fla. Bar? Could he himself, have raised the issue with the bar ie: about how the case was handled from a ‘profit’ standpoint?
Sorry All, I thought that the Greta interview was where George stated he was watching a cooking show, didn’t remember if he mentioned the name specifically.
On the issue of Cindy holding Caylee first, this is just a game by Casey to make herself look like poor me, I didn’t even get to hold my baby first. Something she could throw in Cindy’s face. I don’t think she cared at all. Just a tool, just a weapon. JMO, of course.
D
very good post#577 Maura- good points about cindy not getting to talk or see caylee. knowing how casey must have been all her life, cindy and george were probably scared and worried about caylee anytime she was out of their sight. i have an only granddaughter that my husband and i have had in our household since birth with and without her mother and i cant imagine not being able to talk to her. everyone was responsible for letting it go 31 days. i might go a day or two without talking to my grand. it would be different as far a talking to her i guess if casey and caylee lived out of state etc–maybe not as much contact but not with them living with cindy and george all this time. i know this is an obvious statement but sometimes how they have acted does seem strange and you do want to say cheeseandrice!!
Denise, absolutely– it was attention on some’thing’ other than herself. Later, the baby became useful as as an attachment to get attention, looking at so many photos of Casey and her huge smile, the photos are about ‘her’ so often. Then the baby got big, terrible 2′s, and tantrums, and it was no longer convenient or fun having the baby as an attention-getter for Casey. Baby was becoming an individual more and more– some boy friends said she’s going to be as ‘beautiful as her mother’. Competition to another whole new level.
The issue of Cindy holding Caylee first is the beginning of Cindy thinking she’s the Mother. I think Cindy did everything for everyone…taking on the martyr role. She never stepped back and let Casey be the Mother, she stepped way over the line starting at the hospital and continuing through the memorial (my 3 children).
Its very hard as a Grandma when my children bring their little girls (22 months & 26 months) over to let them parent and keep my mouth shut. Cindy just kept overstepping her bounds, easy to do when she’s providing everything. I also think she saw Casey in Caylee, many times she says Case then corrects herself. Casey was used to being the little adored baby girl then Caylee came. Everyone has a role to play in the family dynamic. Casey was being left out and scolded. She showed in the end she brought her into the world and she took her out to spite Cindy. Just my thoughts. Love this site.
‘Case’ is used by Cindy as she films Caylee– noticed two separate videos in which you hear the name ‘Case’ instead of Caylee. In one example, Cindy didn’t even correct herself as she asked ‘Case’ to walk to her as she video’d her learning to walk. George had mentioned in an investigation interview, something about wanting to do it better (raise the little girl) the second time around.
Blink – Just read Rick Plesea’s transcript. He states on page 25 that:
“Cindy had been on Casey’s back”, about who the father was when Jesse Grund was determined not to be. He is pretty sure Jesus Ortiz is just an obituary that Casey cut out so that she could get Cindy off her back and with that no actual living person that Cindy could confront.
Blink – why do think that Jesus is the father? Can anyone who believe’s this tell me why?
#583
Steph,
Maybe the find on July 3rd, was a J.C. Penny credit card bill in the mailbox. I read in a transcript of Tony L., that Casey went to J.C. Pennys about 9 times. I’m sure that could create a hefty bill. Maybe she purchased a replacement set of Caylee’s bedding (Winnie the Pooh) that was found with her remains. imo
But, I still believe Blink is referring to something found in the yard on July 3rd, is what made Cindy urgently want to find Casey/Caylee.
Blink. When will we find out what the find is from the yard?
I dont know if we ever will, but my guess is when somone cops a plea.
B
Answering Blink’s query in comment #677:
My information regarding Casey’s claims that Caylee would be at Universal on July 3 comes from Cindy’s FBI interview and her OCSO interview. Casey’s phone records for July 3 support Cindy’s claim to have arrived at Universal around 2:30-3:00pm that day. Cindy’s subpoenaed cell records (we don’t have them) would also verify her claim as will the $10 Universal parking receipt she says she has from July 3.
June 24 was the day Casey returned to the Anthony home and was forced to return the gas cans to George (George was home because he and Cindy had just cashed their stimulus check and because George had an interview later that afternoon with Andrews International). Casey claimed she was driving back and forth to Tampa because of Zanny’s accident on June 23. Casey had claimed that Caylee was at the Busch Garden parks on the weekend of June 21 and 22.
From Cindy’s August 4 (second half of timeline) interview with OCSO:
Page 14:
Cindy: The 30th she said Jennifer, Zannie’s roommate, was watching Caylee cause Zannie coundn’t. And Jennifer had Caylee at the park while Casey was working. And that was part of my frustration cause I was off that week and I told her . . .
OCSO: You could have watched her.
Cindy: . . . I could have watched Caylee.
OCSO: Right. What park did she say she had her at?
Cindy: Um, Universal. She said they were doing character breakfasts and she was taking her around the park. And that was pretty much the whole week.
OCSO: So she was hanging out with Jennifer that whole week?
Cindy: Yep, that’s what she said.
OSCO: Cause you’re on vacation that week.
Cindy: Yep, I’m on vacation that weel and I could have watched Caylee the whole week. And I don’t remember specifics on Tuesday or Wednesday, I just know it’s the same story every day.
[There is an intervening conversation about Cindy’s cell phone records and possibly archived text messages since Cindy told the detective that as time went on, Casey was texting Cindy more and more rather than having live phone conversations. Cindy allowed OCSO to take her phone to download any archived information that may be on it.]
Page 17:
OCSO: Okay, and the 3rd [Thursday, July 3] you say you actually visited Universal Studios . . .
Cindy: Uh huh (affirmative)
OCSO: . . . in an effort to go pick up the child, Caylee not there and you spoke with her on the phone that day. Friday, anything on Friday stand out?
Cindy: Friday was the 4th of July, we spoke a couple of times, um, as to whether or not we were gonna get to take Caylee to see fireworks. And Casey wasn’t sure if they were coming back and then . . .
OCSO: From where?
Cindy: She was supposed to be still in Jacksonville. Cause on Thursday [July 3] is when she told me she was in Jacksonville and that she’d actually been in Jacksonville all week. That’s what she said. She was with Jeff all week.
From Cindy’s videotaped interview with the FBI on July 31 (no transcript available, so these are the notes I took while watching):
On Sunday, June 30, Casey called to say she had to stay late at work and Jennifer was going to watch Caylee at Zanny’s house. Zanny was too weak to lift Caylee, so Jennifer was staying around. Casey was supposed to get a couple of days off from work, but there was too much to do so she couldn’t come right away.
Cindy was off from June 30-July 6. The whole week Casey said Caylee was with Zanny, Jennifer, or Juliet.
July 3 sticks out for Cindy because she talked to Casey. Cindy said they were talking or texting nearly every day during this period.
FBI agent said they are talking about a 1.5-2 week period of time in which Casey was telling Cindy that she was very busy with work and visiting friends. Agent wants to know if Cindy thinks Casey was being held against her will and allowed to make phone calls only. In other words, was Casey actually traveling around and going to work and visiting friends?
(snipped)
FBI agent wants to go back to July 3 when Caylee was supposedly at Zanny’s. Casey said Caylee was going to character breakfasts at Universal and spending the day at the park. Cindy drove to Universal guest services and has a $10 parking receipt to prove she was there because she wanted to see Caylee. It was probably around 230-300pm. Cindy called Casey, and Casey told Cindy that she was in Jacksonville and was having car problems. Cindy called Ryan Pasley to ask if Casey was there and found out he knew nothing about it. Cindy asked Casey who she was with and Casey said Jeff.
Cindy later found that the car had been towed on June 30. Cindy doesn’t know why Casey was making the Jacksonville reference. Casey said she and Jeff were going to Target and running errands and told Cindy that Caylee was with Jeff’s mother. Mother was taking cancer treatments but was doing well – well enough to take care of Caylee. Mother was planning to stay in Jacksonville because she had met someone.
July 4 was a Friday and Cindy is pretty sure she talked to Casey that day because Cindy and George wanted to take Caylee to the fireworks. Casey said she and Caylee were spending the day with Jeff and his family. On July 5, Jeff took her car as a favor to his mechanic to have some things fixed, so she wasn’t able to come home that weekend. Casey said the car wasn’t ready until the Thursday of the following week, July 10.
Casey’s cell pings for Thursday, July 3:
When Casey received a text from Cindy’s cell at 2:50pm, she was 6.6 miles west of the Anthony house. I believe this is the text Cindy sent to Casey from the Universal visitors’ parking lot saying Cindy had driven to Universal and wanted to see Caylee since Casey had told Cindy that Caylee was going to be at the park that day.
Universal is a 30-minute drive from the Anthony house. Casey knew Cindy was not at home, so she appears to have made a beeline to the Anthony residence after getting Cindy’s text message.
At 3:20pm, Casey called her own cell phone, hitting the #1 Anthony tower, then at 3:21pm, she called Cindy’s cell phone (17 minute phone call) hitting the same tower.
At 3:38pm (at the end of her 17-minute call with Cindy), she was hitting a tower 1.5 miles from JP’s condo when she called Jesse Grund.
Since Casey knew Cindy was on vacation that week, she would not have gone to the Anthony house (as I believe she did that afternoon) unless she was sure Cindy and George weren’t there. George was working and Cindy had called her from Universal, so Casey knew she had time to make a lightening-fast visit to Hopepspring Drive (maybe to pick something up) and/or a quick drive-by of the Suburban Drive woods.
Excellent presentation of data Maura, however, I am positive we are missing George’s speculation in an LE interview regarding that date, IIRC
B
#679 Ann
I agree that Casey’s persistent hard feelings over Cindy’s having held Caylee before Casey held Caylee are rooted in their love-hate relationship.
George said that Casey had a difficult birth and required an episiotomy. Caylee was all cleaned up when Casey was still passing the placenta and then being stitched up, which is why the nurse handed Caylee to Cindy (who was in the birthing room).
Also, (this girl is off the hook) Annie Downing states on page 92 of her transcript that Casey told her “Eric, who was in a car accident” was the father. Is there an Eric or is this another name pulled out of thin air?
just a joke, but maybe they paid Casey to be a surrogate mom..and things went awry…… ha
Re: Keith Williams
I didn’t realize until today that KW was interview three times by OCSO. I had only been aware of the April interview, but he was interviewed twice in mid-January, and he did mention garments and a shoe in the January interviews. He did not mention those things in April. He also appears to have been mainly concerned about the bag of stuffed animals. From what he told OCSO, it sounds to me as if the “little bits of garments of clothing” and some sort of shoe were not in the bag with the stuffed animals but near the bag. I could be wrong about that, but that’s how I read his testimony. I also am considering that he’s not the clearest speaker in the world and that he doesn’t have a perfect memory. For example, he couldn’t recall whether he called LE on August 18 before or after he found the bag of stuffed animals. And he appears to have said in January that he didn’t call Crimeline on the morning of August 18 only to state in April that he called LE and Crimeline almost simultaneously around 8:00am on August 18.
At any rate . . .
Keith Williams was interviewed on January 15 by Corporal Mike Ruggiero of the OCSO Professional Standards Section. They met at a 7Eleven at Oak Ridge and Millenia Blvd.
January 15 interview:
KW: What I, at first, um, I found, um, I found an area where there was bags ripped open like, like four or five thick, heavy bags and there was also, um Father’s Day balloon and, um . . .
(snipped)
KW: It’s right on the, the right-hand side of the school in the woods. I’d say approximation to where she was found, where the, the bags were, would may, would maybe be about 30 yards.
(snipped)
KW: From where the bags were and then there was also a spot where I found, um, some toys like, uh, it was a bunch of stuffed animals in a bag which was suspicious to me because, I don’t know, they were nice stuffed animals. I didn’t see no reason why someone would just throw ‘em away, throw ‘em out like that and I also found a little bit of garments of clothing and like a, I think it was a shoe or some, some little stuff that, um, looked a little suspicious to em and, um, yeah, that’s the, and I tried to show the deputy that.
The following day, Corporal Ruggiero telephoned KW for some follow-up questions. On the previous day, KW had told Ruggiero that he met with a deputy on August 18 and pointed out the wooded area where he found the suspicious items and also showed the deputy a bag of stuffed animals that KW had in the trunk of his car when the deputy responded.
****
January 16 telephone interview (page 4 appears to be missing from the WFTV document):
MR: Okay, the bag that you located there; one of the bags that you located you had stated was, it contained stuffed animals. Is that correct?
KW: That’s correct. Yes.
MR: Okay. And what did you do with that bag when you located it? You were alone. This is before you had called the deputy.
KW: Before I called the deputy, when I had, you know, went out there, I told you, I’d spoke to a psychic and all that other stuff. I went out there and I looked at that. I was looking around and, uh, I went to, um, that area where the stuffed animals was found and I seen a couple things, you know, ‘cause there was a couple things just laying around there. At that bag, I specifically picked up and I grabbed it and then I brought it with me and, to the mom’s house.
(snipped)
KW: Well, the one I was just real suspicious of, man, is, is a bag of, of, like I said, stuffed animals. They were all nice. They were. You could tell these were, they were in good condition but they were put in a bag and thrown in the back and then there’s also like I said some clothing and some other little, little shit that I, I thought would, you know, I was kind of, in my mind thinking the police were really into it. I thought they would at least, none of that would be there. Maybe they would actually have took it somewhere else. I’m surprised they didn’t see that. In the other area with the, the ripped open bags and the Father’s Day balloon, I was surprised because when I told him about that, I came back there a few weeks later and saw that the stuff was unmoved so I could tell nobody looked into it and that’s when I got the trespassing warning for being back there.
MR: That was weeks later thought?
KW: Yeah.
****
In his April 14 interview with Yuri Melich and John Allen at the Suburban Drive wooded area, KW only mentioned bringing a bag of stuffed animals to Cindy Anthony. He said he saw the Father’s Day balloon on his August 5 visit and ran into some reporters. He told the reporters to film in the location where he saw 4-5 garbage bags and the balloon. He returned to the woods on August 18 after talking to a Texas psychic who is the mother of a woman named Charlie he knew through his security job.
When he talked to Melich and Allen on April 14, he never mentioned seeing clothing or shoes. He did say that after August 18, he returned a couple of times to look around and then returned with a shovel, which was the October visit when he was trespassed.
****
I recall months ago that someone on WS claimed to have found KW’s Crimeline tip in the batch of tips released to the public last fall, but I was not able to pull up the comment via Google. The WS thread on which that comment was posted appears to have been archived, and since I am not a member of WS, I can’t get to it. If anyone knows where his Crimeline tip can be located in the discovery, I would appreciate knowing that information. There were 18 tip files released in October. If it’s in one of those, I would only need to know the file #.
uh!uh! kleat there you go again “wanting to do it better the second time around” so what happened so bad the first time around?there i took the bait.
#635; “I still stand behind the information that was found about the cooking show he claimed to be watching, which btw, has been proven that it wasn’t on any channel, any time slot, any state, etc.”
I am ever more convinced that George never mentioned a specific cooking show. I have yet to see it vrrified. I am not trying to get others to do research for me; I have keept an eye out for that specific mention; but I don’t think it’s out there.
WOW