Caylee/Casey Anthony Case: Caylees Autopsy Revelations Part I
Orlando, FL– Under heavy objection last Friday afternoon, Judge Stan Strickland denied the motion on behalf of George and Cindy Anthony to seal Caylee Marie Anthonys autopsy until their daughter Caseys capital murder trial in their granddaughters death. Late Friday afternoon, the Findings of Dr. Jan Garavaglia, Chief Medical Examiner of Orange County were released. In Part I, we explore a few of the notable findings, In Development for Part II, Blinkoncrime will be is creating an interactive 3D Model, incorporating the evidence recovery field, bone disbursement pattern, and anatomical example of the duct tape placement.
The Laundry Bag
Although the report contains a significant amount of anthropologic and forensic data, it does not contain photos or X-Rays, pursuant to the Earnhardt exclusion under Florida Law. Blinkoncrime.com will attempt to offer some observations and in some cases, correct some erroneous information that is being reported in the msm. For starters, the laundry bag picture being circulated, it is incorrect, the image to the left is the correct bag, note the dimensions are exact. The top of this bag does not cinch.
The Duct Tape
I have seen rampant speculation on the duct tape beginning around 15 minutes following the release of the report. 
There are many who believe that Casey Anthony killed her child by wrapping her nose and mouth with duct tape. Allow me to point out the report actually reflects the antithesis of this theory. First, there IS NO TAPE ON THE POSTERIOR of her skull. The only posterior placement of the tape mentioned is still located on the mandible, or face. The tape, which was actually small strips of grey cloth-based, delaminating tape is applied on top of itself, not really feasible with a live toddler. Given the findings that Caylee’s mandible stayed in almost true anatomical position, although slightly posterior and that the hair that was attached to the tape extended from the back of her head and over her head and face, it is likely Caylee was laying on her back when the tape was applied. Henkel makes 2 kinds of duct tape, one is more Industrial grade of adhesive “hot set” over cloth designed for waterproof and outdoor projects. It has not yet been disclosed which formulation was used.
The O Sign
A contributing poster at blinkoncrime gave me something to think about that had not occurred to me. I am on record stating I do believe that Casey Anthony murdered her daughter, and that she will end up pointing the finger at one or both of her parents as a defense strategy.
However, the duct tape never really fit for me. I have always believed it to be a post mortem tactic to stage a kidnapping. I do believe I may have been wrong. Very well known to medical and critical care professionals, there is something called an O effect; occurring at very near death, or shortly following death and before rigormortis sets in.
Some medical people refer to it when the person is very near death or has just died–the jaw drops open. Nothing left to hold the mandible shut. In morgue kits there is a strap that is applied around the jaw to gently close it before rigor sets in. This “O” sign can be very pronounced and unsettling to see first hand. Casey probably wasn’t aware of this and was really spooked by this silent scream and used the duct tape then put a heart sticker on it as a ________
This makes sense to me. The tape is applied in small strips across the nose and mouth areas, catching her hair in the face over the Coronal plane region. One interpretation that may be drawn is that Caylee was lying on her back, upon seeing what Casey had done to her child as evidenced by the relaxed mandible; she attempted to “fix her”. As if covering up the evidence of death on her baby would change things, complete with a heart sticker. No sooner did I arrive at this conclusion on Saturday, did I see Dr.Michael Baden appear on Geraldo Live on Sunday evening bringing up the mortuary kit issue. I am not saying this idea originated here, not that it would be the first time, but it at least tells me there is corroboration within the forensic Medical community as to the premise. The FBI report on the duct tape has not been released. One thing is certain, what I have been stating all along about Casey’s prints being on the duct tape seems foreboding. With multiple strips of tape, chances are there are several. The defense has had this report for months, is this why Casey Anthony retained Todd Macaluso?
Swim Diaper?
There are several remnants recovered that are described as a diaper or pull ip item. However, there are a few that appear to be strictly synthetic. When I read the report, my immediate reaction based on some of the coloring was that it was a “swimmie”, or disposable swim diaper. After mapping out the dimensions and a closer look, I believe it is actually referring to remnants of both a pull up, a reusable swim diaper, or swim floation/assistance device or both, as pictured here:
Paper Towels
Simply stated there is decomposition fluid on paper towels in the plastic garbage bag found in her trunk that came from Tony Lazzarros apartment.
In my opinion, Casey ripped the bag Caylees remains were in when she moved her body into or out of the trunk to her final resting place in the woods off Suburban. The stain in the trunk, emitting the ungodly stench, was the target of the paper towels after Casey returned to TonE’s apartment. She brought the paper towels and garbage bag out with her in an attempt to clean it up and realized almost immediately it was an excerise in futility. Immediately following are her comments to Amy about George Anthony borrowing her car, and the infamous squirrel stowaway story.
Her Clothes
In contrast to only a stitching remnant with a manufactures tag left of her shirt, Caylees shorts were found nearly 2 ft ft away from the laundry bag, in relatively good condition. Based on the reports findings of trunk and femural animal activity and the corresponding recovery area, I am of the opinion that it is not possible that Caylee was wearing those shorts when she was dumped in the woods. Frankly, given the fact that the actual color stripe pattern was discernable versus the condition of the other items, I am suspect Casey was in those woods more than once. How do you get only the collar of a shirt remaining and her shorts completely intact with no noted damage? Lastly, Caylees shoes if she were wearing any, were not recovered.
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Hello all just got home from work and have been reading posts. I am at comment 690 and thought I would stop and leave a post to quantify my theory about the bag kw found. Now first I want to say to you all how much I have learned about this case from all of yoy and I respect what you do here. I appreciate all your feedback to my posts. That said I want to point you to a comment cindy said. Not sure when or to whom but I found it on http:/transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0807/31/ng01.html. It is a transcript of the ng show on 7/31 a clip is being transcribed re” I think an ubterview with le where cindy says ” she’s (casey) leading me to a place but she’s not telling me to the exact location, to which apartment it is because she”s afraid of, if someone walks in. That something may happen to caylee”.now I have reviewed the recorded jailhouse calls between the family and casey and I remember casey being evasive with cindy. Casey was cryptic in her responses but I did not get the impression she was offering cindy much if any info to cindy about caylee after she was arrested. So I found this remark rather interesting at the time. I think it supports my theory that casey was leaving the family clues between 6/15 and 7/15 tiping them to caylees location and to frame them.. I am still of the opinion that the family may have seen that bag prior to 8/18 when kw claimed he showed its contents to cindy I also looked up ng show transcripts from 8/5 when kw told blink he first saw the bag. There is a report from wftv that le receives a tip pointing them to search a wooded area near a local elementary school and they are there wirh cadaver dogs. And then on 8/6 the abthony home is searched for a 3rd time leaving with 4(o 6 bags of items. Now I know u all already know this timeline but I just wanted to quantify my own opinion. Thanks guys gonna finish reading the posts.
casey looks just like her dad. she has more of his features than cindys. I think caylee looked more like her grama.
Sort of moved away from this case for time being. But Blink is the last glimmer of hope I’m hanging onto so far as their being solid evidence still to come. Namely latent partial finger prints on the duct tape. I hope you still stand by that Blink, if you don’t things may have changed, but looks like you still believe it’s true. Thanks will check back again soon. You’re the best!
Ok, I have been looking into several comments being made by readers who state that Anthony didn’t want a little girl and was getting ready to dump Casey over the fact he couldn’t spend a lot of time with her because of Caylee. Can someone provide a link for that information? What I have found is that there were IM conversations between Casey (casey o marie) and Anthony Ruscaino (nyitaliano3) that DO state these things…But Anthony Ruscaino was NOT her current boyfriend, Anthony Lazzaro was her current boyfriend. Anthony Ruscaino is the cop that she dated that was fired from his job for not disclosing the truth about his relationship with Casey Anthony.
So that makes sense. Wasnakt also tr she sent an I’m to referring to caylee as “the little snothead? Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that many keyy players in this case are ex cops or currenly in the security biz? What up with that?
Whatever Casey did to the child, both Casey and Cindy knew for a fact, that keeping the baby undiscovered until skeletonized was important– why, if an accident? Better to have proof of some accident, drowning, or accidental overdose of something. But they kept the body hidden and fought hard to keep the public only looking for a ‘live Caylee’, which goes to hiding something for long enough. What could it be– maybe marks on the child’s throat, or other evidence that would go to killing of the child.
Just for shigles I went to http://www.googke.com/dictionary and searched nanny. I found a link en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The Nanny (film) a 1965 film starring betty davis. I have seen this film on cable channel tcm. Spoiler alert. In it a litte girl climbs onto a tub to reach for a toy, falls and gets knocked out. Later her nanny draws a bath not knowing the child is in it so the child drowns. Her 10 year old brother gets blamed for it and is sent to a home for disturbed children later released back to the care of the nanny. He proceeds to olay mind games on her as she never confessed. So now I am having a serious (are the lambs still screaming, clarice)? Moment. Wondering if ant of the key players in this case also saw this film? Creepy
I also found this http://www.asianvoices.org.uk which defines nanny (nannie) as grandmother, mothers mum. Uh oh look out cindy. Toot toot
I am sure I heard caylee sing ;you’ll never know dear how much I love you, please don’t take NANS sunshine away.” Caylee said NAN but I just can’t bear to watch that video right now and check myself.
I wonder if the ripped open bags of stuffed animals were actually ripped open by Dominic Casey….
Oops sorry folks try this http://www.google.com/dictionary then search nanny and link to the nanny film.
Kleat, I wonder if either cin or kc would have known that Caylee’s body would be skeletonized in an astoundingly short two weeks or even a month or two or three—I mean, I was completely shocked to learn how quickly that can happen; I pictured those things taking many months or years even..! I think kc just got incredibly lucky that she was able to stall her folks for so long.
Responding to comment #693, re: George’s recollection of Cindy’s visit to Universal
George’s July 24 OCSO interview:
Pages 35-38:
George and Yuri Melich were trying to pin down the date that Cindy discovered the pool ladder up. They went over the week of June 23-27, and George discussed the day Casey returned the gas cans (24th). He said he and Cindy met at the Goldenrod Bank of America to cash their $1,200 IRS stimulus check. Melich asked George if Cindy and Casey had confronted each other on June 24, and George said no. George did not say anything about Cindy trying to see Casey or Caylee by driving to Universal.
George said he returned to the house after depositing the stimulus check and ran into Casey around 2:20 – 2:25pm.
Melich: And obviously Caylee wasn’t there that day? And was it, was your mom, I’m sorry, was, uh, Cindy there that day?
George: No, Cindy . . .
Melich: Okay. So she . . .
George: . . . met me at the bank . . .
Melich: Okay.
George: . . . from work. She went from Gentiva to the bank and then she went back to work.
Melich: Okay. So they didn’t confront each other that day though?
George: No.
***
George’s July 31 FBI interview (no transcript available, so these are the notes I took while watching the videotape):
FBI wanted to discuss incident with gas cans. George said at least once a week he cuts the grass. On SW corner of house is a shed (there for three years) that holds his mower, generator, full gas cans, etc.
On Sunday, June 22 George and Cindy had been trimming bamboo and doing other yard work. On June 24 around 10a, he went to cut grass before work, so he went to the shed. He saw that the shed had been broken in to and that the gas cans were missing. The gate (the only way into the back yard) was still locked, so the only way into the shed was if someone had jumped over fence to get into shed. Someone broke off the lock, and the lock was inside the shed.
He called OSCO to make a report about the break-in. George called Cindy to tell her about the broken shed, stolen gas cans, and OSCO report. That same day, George and Cindy met at Bank of America at 2:00pm to sign and cash their IRS stimulus check. He then drove back home to get ready for an interview with Andrews International at 6:30pm. He was inside house and heard the garage door go up. Casey came in dressed nicely and said she only had 10 minutes to grab a change of clothes.
George asked when she would be coming by with Caylee. She said that night or maybe the next day.
Casey said she had talked to Cindy and heard about the stolen gas cans. He started to wonder if Casey had taken the cans, so he told her he wanted to get a tire tool out of her trunk. They argued about who would get the tool out of the trunk. As he was leaving through the garage door, she blew past him and said she would get it. She pushed him backwards to let him know she didn’t want him near the car. He chastised her for making him look like and ass with OSCO.
He asked why she took the cans, and she gave him a song and dance about Zanny’s car accident in Tampa and her need for gas while driving back and forth. He told her it was dangerous to drive around with filled gas cans. She made excuses and was trying to leave. He told her they would talk soon because he wanted to know what was going on and wanted to see Caylee.
George said the Pontiac was pulled nose into the driveway in the center of the driveway. When she went to the trunk to get the cans, he was close enough to see clothes in the trunk as well as the gas cans and a blue crate.
George called Cindy, who said she would talk to Casey later.
Also on June 24 (George is positive) Cindy went to Universal to talk to Casey. Casey knew ahead of time that Cindy was going to be there. Cindy parked in the visitor lot and called Casey on her cell, and Casey said she was in Tampa with the Zanny business.
Cindy wanted to know where Caylee was and who she was with. Casey said she was with someone at the hotel; George doesn’t know the name.
(snipped)
FBI agent said he wanted to jump forward to July, but he and George jumped to July 11-13 when notice found on door regarding registered letter. They never discussed the first ten days in July, so George was not asked to recount any events during the week of Cindy’s vacation from June 28-July 6.
However, it was also during this FBI interview that George said Casey borrowed Cindy’s car and he followed her. George couldn’t be specific about day, but he was fairly sure it was after June 24 (after the gas can episode). George said Casey had Cindy’s permission to use Cindy’s car. Cindy’s car is a green Toyota 4×4 with a panda decal on back window – can’t be mistaken for another car. George saw Casey driving it and chased her on the 408 but couldn’t catch her. She was driving fast, not erratically. George said Casey was by herself. George was following in his car. Cindy was at home and Casey went over there to pick up the keys and borrow Cindy’s car. The Pontiac was left at the Anthony house. Casey kept Cindy’s car for that afternoon/evening. Her excuse was that her car was not running correctly.
[OCSO obtained the Epass records for June-July and could not corroborate George’s account. In later interviews, George said he was wrong about the date of this incident and that he had chased Casey months earlier, back in March or April.]
***
George’s OCSO interview on August 4:
George discussed the June 24 gas can incident in some detail, but he did not mention the incident in which Cindy drove to Universal anywhere in this interview.
He was much less clear about the 408 car chase than he had been four days earlier in the FBI interview.
Even though this was the “timeline” interview, the discussion did not cover a day-by-day breakdown of what George recalled, and there was virtually no discussion of the events of July with the exception of retrieving the car from Johnson’s and finding Casey on July 15.
Pages 17-19
George was asked to clarify the incident told to the FBI on July 31 in which he chased Casey on the 408 while she was driving Cindy’s SUV. George would not guess at a date for this incident and said he would need to review his Epass records.
Pages 20-23
George recounted the gas can incident on June 24 when Casey gave the cans back.
Page 24:
He was asked if the 408 car chase had occurred before or after the gas can incident and he said he could not be sure. He said it could have been the week of the 15th or 16th but he wasn’t positive because Casey had borrowed Cindy’s SUV at different times.
Page 31:
George said that from the end of June, Casey claimed to be in Jacksonville with Jeff.
***
Casey’s June 24 cell pings for Anthony towers and Cindy’s calls:
Casey pinged the Anthony house main cell tower at 2:42pm.
Casey called Cindy’s cell phone around 2:50pm (100 seconds).
Casey was out of the Anthony neighborhood by 3:00pm.
Cindy’s cell called Casey’s cell at 3:15pm (294 seconds).
Casey’s cell called Cindy’s cell at 5:25pm (637 seconds).
The Anthony landline called Casey’s cell at 7:05pm (4 seconds).
Casey’s cell called the Anthony landline at 7:06pm (760 seconds).
***
My conclusion is George simply did not remember the date and event correctly during his FBI interview just as he did not remember the date of the car chase on 408 correctly. He only claimed in that one interview that Cindy went to Universal on June 24.
Ok, so I was not imaging it, but isnt there a parking receipt as well?
B
#704… If you check on docstoc.com or some other site that you may know of that has all the links for everything in this case, you can check Tony Lazzaros interview and find what you’re looking for. Funny because yesterday I wondered if people were getting those 2 confused. During the texts between Casey and Rusciano, he refers to Caylee in many different ways, never by name though. I personally think he was just trying to be clever, not necessarily hateful toward Caylee. He definitely wanted Casey to come alone though, because he had plans for the two of them, if you know what I mean.
As for Lazzaro, he himself mentioned in the interview that it wasn’t so much that he didn’t want kids, but he definitely wanted “boys” I believe he states that in the undercover video he did with Lee, as well as his interview with LE. I understand where the confusion came in while reading some of the messages yesterday, hopefully that will clarify for you.
#706….I think it was a LOT more simple than trying to cover until a certain time, until the body was skeletonized etc. I personally think it was the plain and simple fact of trying to get away with murder, simply so as not to go to jail. just my opinion of course …but!!
Response to #704:
When Anthony Lazzaro took his polygraph, he mentioned to the polygrapher that he had once told Casey that when he had children, he wanted boys, not girls.
I don’t believe he ever said when he made that comment to Casey, however. They started dating in late May and Caylee is assumed to have died on June 16. If he made the comment before Caylee’s death, then it could have been a contributing factor. But if he made that comment between the night of June 16 (when Tony and Casey are on the Blockbuster videotape without Caylee) and the night of July 15 (when Cindy found Casey), then it could not have been a contributing factor.
Here is the relevant section from Tony’s September 9 OCSO interview:
YM: Alright. Uhm, a couple things that we wanted to go over with you is to uh, obviously we, you just went through a polygraph examination and there were some questions that came up through that about some statements that you made to the paleographer, to the FBI, and we wanted to clear up.
TL: Alright.
YM: One of the statements to that, you made to the FBI was a conversation you had with Casey about uh, children and then what type of children uh, you would like for a family and so on.
TL: Right.
YM: And so on.
TL: Right.
YM: Can you tell us a little bit about that?
TL: Yeah (affirmative). Uhm, I remember uh, mentioning, which I always you know, I always mention about I want to have boys. You know, I want to have boys to raise up for baseball and sports, whatever. I mean uhm, I have two sisters and I know. I have two younger sisters.
YM: (Chuckles.)
TL: (Laughing.) I know how it is raising with two younger sisters. And I know I wouldn’t make a, an ugly child, so I’d have to worry about that.
YM: Alright. And uhm, when uh, when you brought this up to the FBI, is uhm, what was the reason that came to mind then and not before? What, what, what…
TL: Well after, when they came to me I, they came to me a week beforehand.
YM: Uh-hum (affirmative).
TL: And it was right at the last week of school. Uhm, when I was done with all my tests I was able to reflect a lot more. And the night before I actually was able to reflect a little bit before I went to bed. Uhm, it really didn’t even trigger until he actually asked the question uh, firsthand. Uhm, the first time he actually first gave a test. And then he, I didn’t say anything when he gave the second test.
Maura, didn’t Cindy complain in an interview, about the TEN dollars (!) it cost her to go to Universal that day in search of Caylee? Yep– the money was on her mind, ticket was paid to park.
Kleat if cindy and casey are currently playung a game of “who’s got the cheese?” Who is the rat and who is the mouse?
George’s ‘stories’, from version A told to LE about things, then version A slash 1, depo M&M, are telling about George’s intention or ability to tell the truth. (Maybe he will come down with temporary dementia in time for the trial to help the cause).
But what George implies in the M&M depo, is his lack of behind the scenes involvement by not watching reports, not getting reports from his PI’s, not hearing what is really relevant to finding a missing child. But then, we hear from Blink that within short order of her story on the bag of toys ala William, George is watching things, paying attention, like the ol’ cop he was but a long time ago, but who still remembers ‘stuff’.
George runs into Williams at Amscot– or is it the other way around– (I don’t buy the coincidence, locked keys, ride home, chat).
But George calls Valencia for some unknown reason, right at the time to interrupt William’s own call to Valencia. This goes to George being very knowledgeable and paying attention to what is going on, AND is acting behind the scenes. Then he can play ‘ignorant’ for the M&M depo crew and maintain his ‘below the radar’ position.
Today is the anniversary of the July 3 activities, and it will be a year from the yard digging and deshovelling.
Yes, I am planting some today just for that reason. I really would just like peace for this childs memory already.
B
Cindy said she has a $10 parking receipt for July 3 when she got to Universal around 2:30-3:00pm. I have not seen it in the discovery, but I haven’t looked at every page of discovery.
Maura,
I don’t doubt any of your information, as you’ve obviously done your homework, as evident by your well informed, and fact based posts. My only problem with something you said about George is this….
You said you feel George simply doesn’t remember the date of the car chase incident, as well as not remembering exactly the date of the gas can incident.
I suppose I can understand him not remembering exact dates of things such as the gas can incident, and even other things as well, because you don’t realize the importance of small details while they are happening, until or unless later you’re asked to recall them, because something tragic or greatly important has come up.
However….. George not remembering the car chase incident makes no sense. I can understand that he can’t recall the EXACT date or time, but cannot understand that he couldn’t recall it within some reason. I guess my point more simply explained is that while I understand being off by a few days, it certainly makes NO SENSE that he would later say it could have been weeks or months before, blaming it on the fact that Casey used Cindy’s vehicle many times. He would have to know within some reasonable amount of time when he chased her, because prior to June/July, she had never been missing, therefore, he never had a reason to chase her before. If in fact there were times that Casey had lied about something HUGE, or he truly felt she were in danger, or that Caylee was in danger, or she was dealing drugs to the mafia or something big like that, well then the car chase would be understandable at that point. (I’m obviously joking about the mafia) Hopefully my point came through though. At no other time except that month time frame, would George have ever had a real reason to not only follow, but CHASE Casey, in order to find out where she was or what she was doing. All the time they attempted to believe she was working, or doing who knows what, he never mentioned feeling the need to follow her or chase her. He did however make it a point that he chased her (imo) to find out what she was doing or where she was going, because they hadn’t seen Caylee and wondered just what in the world she was up to. SO, not recalling exact times and dates is one thing, but to say in one interview it was a few days, then in another interview saying you might be off by a few months???? Makes NO SENSE. He obviously was flat out lying, not that I’m shocked. He knows when that happened, because Casey had never been missing before and had never taken Caylee away that long.
Sorry for the long rambling post, and for repeating myself over and over, but I couldn’t seem to make it come out in text what it was I was thinking in my head…ha! I do remember hearing that George later said that the car chase never happened AT ALL. Anyone know if that is true, as I’m unable to find where that statement came from in any interviews/documents.
#720 To Wendy
Wendy, I never said George doesn’t remember the date of the gas can incident. He called the cops and has an incident report dated June 24 and he knew Casey came by that same afternoon and he got the cans back from her. That’s one date that no one is disputing.
I said George is inconsistent about 1) the date that Cindy visited Universal, and 2) the date that he chased Casey on the 408 when Casey was driving Cindy’s SUV.
Thank you Maura and Wendy. I really feel, however, that if she had been dating Tony R. then that might have played into Caylee’s murder, but I don’t think her relationship with Tony L. did.
IMO, I think the murder was simply revenge on Cindy, they did get in a fight that night, but hey, Cindy doesn’t want anyone seeing anything other than that white pickett fence. I just think her relationship with Tony L. made it easy for her to “forget”.
I guess what I’m saying is that Lazzaro wouldn’t be asking where the baby was, was cool with just hanging out with Casey, and he provided her a place to be while she was avoiding her mom. I know that he didn’t want Caylee staying overnight, so with the baby gone, him not asking questions, I think that gave her time to think of how to cover herself to a degree.
If cindy and casey are playing the game of “where is the cheese” and the cheese is the bait then why did casey want to speak with george alone on 8/14? And why was cindy there? And who was keith really hoping would answser the door at the anthony home? And what did he really tell george on the ride home from amscot that made them pray and cry together
Wendy, when these things happened, goes to the reason George did them, especially the car chase. Why he needed to do it as related to no one seeing the grandchild, Casey coming and going from the home in the meantime, became the reason. Unless George is mixing this ‘missing time’ with some previously undeclared ‘missing Caylee event’ (and that didn’t happen unless it’s been solidly covered up until George reveals clues in the M&Ms depo).
Blink– that is a nice thought, to plant something in memory. Yes– time already for the baby to have her voice.
Re: The car chase
George’s ZG Deposition (Pages 77-78)
Q And while — during that 31-day period when your granddaughter and daughter had left the house, was there a time where you followed or chased after your daughter in a car?
A I thought I had, but I was mistaken about –about the time. I think it was back in March or April when my daughter had utilized my wife’s vehicle. I was wrong on the dates, on the months, yes.
Q Now, this would have been August of 08. These events that we’re talking about occurred in July of ’08, right. So it was mix –
A No, actually, I think it was like April or May when I said this about my daughter using my wife’s vehicle and I went — I went to follow her one day. So it was just a month or two different. No, nothing about July. I was mistaken about that.
***
Cindy’s ZG Deposition (Pages 102-103)
Q There came a point in time that you and your husband, I’m sure, got more concerned about it and in fact there was a time that your husband basically saw Casey and kind of chased after her — saw her in the car kind of chased after her. Did you understand that?
A Yeah, and he was wrong on the dates of that. That was actually in April or May because Caylee was with me when George went after Casey that day so George was – George was wrong on his dates.
Q Was it your understanding that he saw her during this time period or not?
A He saw Casey during the time period.
Q Right.
A But he never followed Casey. The statement that he made that he followed Casey on the expressway and when we went through E-PASS it wasn’t there. I told him if you recall the night you that followed Casey, Caylee was with me in the living room because we were sitting coloring when he took off.
***
It’s laughable that Cindy recalls that she was sitting in the living
room coloring with Caylee when George tore off after Casey, but Cindy pretended not to know the reason why George took off after Casey.
At any rate, Wendy, I am not having as much difficulty as you in understanding George’s confusion about the time when he chased Casey in the car because I can easily believe it happened more than a few times. And George’s confusion is even more understandable if he had chased her as recently as May.
George, Cindy, and Casey were probably at each others’ throats a lot. Consider that Casey and Caylee spent Mother’s Day with Chris Stutz’s family. Consider that Cindy told her co-workers that Casey had not stopped by on Cindy’s birthday, June 5. Consider that Casey left the house from 9:00am to 7:30pm on Father’s Day, knowing that George would be home alone until he left for work at 2:30pm.
I was thinking about Mother’s Day in the Anthony family, and it occurred to me that Cindy probably wanted to spend the day with her mother, Shirley Plesea, but after Casey stole a check from Shirley and cashed it on April 10 for $354, Shirley told Casey not to come around – that she didn’t want to see Casey. Since that check was cashed on April 10, it was probably a month later that Shirley got her bank statement and then had the bank find out who cashed the check. Knowledge of that theft coming to light could certainly have been a reason for George to have chased Casey in the car.
At any rate, I also look at the fact that George did not have to volunteer that information to the FBI, especially since it made Casey look bad. And George was convinced that his E-Pass records would verify his story. LE had no idea George had ever chased Casey in the car until George brought it up. He had no reason to lie about that incident. In fact, if he were covering up for Casey at that point, he would have had every reason to keep his mouth shut.
I do not recall any interview in which George denied EVER chasing Casey in the car. Cindy was asked to verify George’s story of having chased Casey during the period June 16-July 15, and Cindy said it didn’t happen and that she would know if Casey had borrowed her car. She didn’t say Casey had never borrowed her car IIRC, only that she had not borrowed it during the month prior to July 15.
And I have been wondering if keith’s source was someone from the hood that keith used to skateboard with?
Like perhpas he and Lee’s mutual friend Justin?
B
I also noticed that when the msm reported on 10/17 a tip received by paul kovach about seeing casey her car and a male near the airport coming out of the woods with a shovel in hand sometime in june ’08 that keith reports going back to the site with a shovel on 10/21.
Did keith scateboard with someone from the hood who also had a sister who buried her pets there?
If the E-Pass records had supported George’s story, they couldn’t have ‘clarified’ the dates/time-frame. Maybe that’s why George said check e-pass, he’d then know if he had to stick with the story or not. He didn’t have to stick to it. Therefore, it was changed/clarified without worry. Whose to say a grieving grandfather couldn’t be wrong.
George didn’t mention to LE, that he had chased Casey before in Cindy’s car. Just did it during the time Caylee was ‘away’ because things had gone on long enough.
George was saying things to LE early on, that were truthful and he got ‘stuck’ with, like the smell in the car account. Same with Casey taking Cindy’s car and the chase. When he spoke with LE early on, he wasn’t in Baez’s camp, he didn’t even know what Baez was doing, so he said.
Caught again, the Blink comment on ‘Dom’ looking for a paver for a reason. That would go to planning the Ginette part of the scenario. They know a psychic like her (she’s been a PI too, so she claims) could not admit to being in on planning, they could talk to her about stuff, like mentioning a paver, then she could bring that to them in her visions, not really knowing anything about it, but that maybe she should mention it. (leading questions to get her ‘vision’ to the right spot)
To admit to being part of a set up, would mean admitting to the world that she is a fraud, at least in this instance at a minimum, but maybe a complete fake too. So she’d never admit this. They know how to lie technically, get around the whole truth by setting things up the right way.
Does anyone have knowledge as to whether mallory worked at or attended college at valencia college in december 08?? Or if she’s from texas or has family there?
Maura,
Thanks again for all the information. Boy you either type fast or read a lot. ha! I’m not having any difficulty understanding George’s confusion, in fact, just the opposite. I don’t think there was any confusion. I suppose the only problem I have is his lying. I think that’s where the confusion comes in and it’s all confusing to George, not to anyone else. He has so many lies to keep straight now, he doesn’t know which end is up.
You’re right though, he had no reason to tell anyone about chasing Casey, except in the beginning, I feel he was trying to be honest. Until Cindy got a hold of him of course. I still think there wouldn’t be a doubt in my mind when or if I chased my daughter down the highway, especially concerning my g-daughter that seemed to be missing in action, although her mother was coming around quite often. If only to steal groceries, gas, etc.
I also find it hard to believe that Cindy could remember a detail such as sitting down coloring with Caylee, yet she seems not to notice things such as her daughter being 7 months pregnant, lying about having a job for years, and on and on.
I really believe that George does and has known what’s going on for a long time, for the simple fact that Cindy had to tell him to stop being a cop. I think it’s just in him and he saw things for what they were. In his depo, his anger clearly comes from the aggravation he feels over lying, or not being able to keep them straight. He seemed a much different, more calm person when at first he was trying to help, not hinder.
I wanted to add one more thing that I heard today, that I immediately made me think of Casey. I think the prosecution would do well by adding in the statement that although everyone has their own way to grieve, Casey seemed to be celebrating, not grieving. When I heard that, in regards to someone else actually, it spoke volumes in relation to how Casey acted after she was free of Caylee.
#722, I totally agree that if Casey had been heavily involved with Tony R. it may have been a motive for her to kill Caylee. I also agree with the point that by dating Tony L. not only did he not really care that Caylee wasn’t there, (in fact enjoyed it probably) but it was an ideal situation for Casey as well. Don’t ask don’t tell sort of thing. I believe it was a killing out of spite toward Cindy, either that or Casey is just crazy enough to believe in her mind it was a type of mercy killing. Maybe both, who knows. I definitely know it wasn’t an accident. Accident=call 911 immediately and get help. Accident=grief, sadness, disbelief that the accident happened, and a longing for the person you lost. I think even a sociopath could/can be sad or grieve over an accident, unless of course it were something they secretly were hoping would happen at some point. Probably more likely how Casey felt. Who knows with that wack-job though really.
Whoa thanks blink. I just caught that. Justin? Kool. Is he in here somewhere? Must go search. See ya later.
No wonder they all lawyered up and want immunity. So that’s what keith told george.lwop with ellocution right?
Why Cindy didn’t mention, or supposedly recognize, the pregnancy before what, 7 mos, was explained by Cindy to the FBI. She wanted to let Casey come to her about it, so she said. Then, Casey came to her at her work, they went outside to chat (it wasn’t too hot, just right and everything– details, extra details) and Casey told her.
This was in ans. to Scott Bolin’s Q about Casey’s reaction when she learned she was pregnant. Cindy said she didn’t know because she didn’t ask her about her being pregnant. Right– thought they went to a dr.’s to get the ‘tumor vs baby’ sorted out.
Caylee was never more than a tumour to that mother– something to eventually be cut out and destroyed.
Wendy, you said: “I think even a sociopath could/can be sad or grieve over an accident,..”.
Not from what I’ve read– they won’t be sad or grieve unless they are sad or grieving about ‘themselves’, like they have something to lose ‘themselves’. They won’t grieve for what the accident did to someone else or how others might suffer a loss from that accident. Doesn’t matter– it’s all about the sociopath. Casey’s anger and ‘grieving’ is about herself in her situation, not about the baby or anyone else who gets hurt.
Oh that’s wrong. You already said no immunity my bad. The baez/anthony defense double double cross. That train is really gonna hurt when it hits.
I hope I have popcorn around when this goes down. Definately gonna be different than sponge bob or I carly. Boooooyaaaaah blink.
#677, Maura – thanks for the impressive response! You added details that really brings things into better focus for me.
Good analysis, Wendy. I do beg to differ, tho, that an accident NECESSARILY = call to 911. I don’t think it does, and neither do the cops, who tried on day 1 to get kc to fess up by telling her (when they were playing “good cop”) that sometimes a young mother accidentally kills the kid… These things happen, and for complex reasons (including kc’s bumpy relationship with cin who may have just been WAITING for her to eff up so she could rub it in), moms sometimes cover it up.
Also, I think Geo could truly not recall when the car chase occured. These things can run together in the mind when your daughter is CONTINUALLY causing trouble, methinks. But…he could also be lying, yes indeedy!
Also, that kind of denial of the child being dead is fairly understandable—even Edward Albee’s famous play, “Who’s Afraid of Virignia Woolf?” is all about ugly coping and denial re: the death of a child.
i think the fight on the night of fathers day had nothing to do with the money casey stole from shirley,that had been dicovered and covered already,i think the fight had to do specifically with casey and cindy’s problems with each other(root cause),i think it manifested into a physical fight stemming from cindy not letting casey swim with caylee (cuz it was late,and what was it chilly?or something like that)i think the fight happened right there in the pool,and perhaps(i have a couple diff theories)caylee was the innocent bystander who suffered(demised).
We haven’t heard from G & C recently have we? Maybe they finally got the picture of how much damage they did while conducting “damage control” for their daughter Casey. Interesting reading all the details above; I have been following this case seriously from day one. The prosecution remains mum to this day, while the defense has been “cocky” and outspoken. Even if a quarter of the evidence against Casey gets to court, there is no doubt she would be found guilty. I hold firm – a plea in the eleventh hour. The longer the wait for a trial, the more clear the truth will be….
kleat, i am so impressed by how deep you are.
PS on Caylee’s alleged whereabouts June 28-July 5
In Amy Huizenga’s July 23 OCSO interview, she said Casey told her on Saturday, June 28 that Caylee was going to the beach with the nanny for a few days and that Cindy would be joining them for two days.
From June 28/July 1 through July 5, Casey told Amy that Caylee was visiting various parks. The only park/date Amy could recall specifically was SeaWorld on July 4. Another park was Universal, but Amy couldn’t remember what day Casey had said Caylee would be at Universal. The other days were for different parks that Amy couldn’t recall.
Amy also said that around that month or so, Casey had claimed Caylee was at Busch Gardens with the nanny (that’s what she told Cindy for the weekend of June 21-22).
this is interesting has anyone seen it?
Casey Anthony – mother of missing Caylee Anthony
5’ 2”, 105 lbs, black hair, brown eyes, d.o.b. 3-19-1986
4937 Hopespring Drive
Orlando, FL 32829
407/275-4909
407/619-9286
Drives White 98 Pontiac Fla. Tag G63XV – Casey/Cindy’s
Caylee Marie Anthony – Missing daughter of Casey Anthony
D.O.B. 8-9-05
3 feet tall, shoulder-length light brown hair.
Dark hazel eyes (brown/green) and a small birthmark on left shoulder.
Last seen wearing a pink shirt with jean shorts, white sneakers, her hair in a ponytail.
Cindy and George Anthony – Parents of Casey Anthony, Grandparents of Caylee
4937 Hopespring Drive | George business add: 7556 Municiple Drivie, 407/363-2900
Orlando, FL 32829 | Cindy’s work # 407/629-7992
Home: 407/275-4909
Alex and Shirley Plesea, Cindy’s mom/father, Casey’s Grandmother/Grandfather, Caylee’s great-grandmother/great-grandfather.
Home address for Shirley: 2708 Palmetto Road, Mt. Dora, FL.
Alex is resident at Mt. Dora Nursing and Rehab Center – 3050 Brown Avenue, Mount Dora, FL
Lee A. Anthony – Casey’s brother. 4937 Hopespring Drive 407/275-4909; bus. 315 E. Robinson St. #505, 3280 (407)808-5132. DOB 11/20/82. DLA535521824200
Anne Lenington – Director of Nusring; Karen Angel, LPN- provided copy of the sign-in sheet for June 15 – proving Cindy and Caylee Anthony were there to visit Mr. Plesea.
Investigators from Orange County Sheriff‘s Office:
Sgt. Reggie Hosey – responded to Cindy’s 911 calls at the Anthony Home
Detective Yuri Melich – office 407.254.7000 (ext. 70633)
Sgt. Renden Fletcher
Sgt. John Allen
Investigator at Universal Studios – Leonard Turtora – 1000 Universal Studios PZ, Orlando 32819.
407/224-5165; cell 732 779-6393
Witnesses, friends, associates, etc:
Brian Burner – neighbor of the Anthony’s – 4929 Hopespring Drive.
Zenaida FernandezGonzalez: Motel 6 at 5731 W. Irlo (sp?) Bronson Memorial Hwy, Kissimmee, FL 34746; phone 407/396-6333. She has two daughters, Jasmine & Michelle. Says she has never met Casey or Caylee or done any babysitting for them. Casey couldnot identify this Zenaida by the photo detectives showed her. She claims to have known her Zenaida, also referred to as Zanny the Nanny, for 4 years and insists that she has babysat Caylee for the past 1-½ years. According to Caylee, Zenaida is 5 feet 7 inches, 140 pounds with dark brown curly hair and brown eyes. Birthday in September. Claims to have met her around Christmas, 2004. Also referred to by Zanny the Nanny – code for Zanax?
Gloria Gonzalez – age 55 – according to Casey, this is her Zenaida’s mother and that Zenaida lived with her a short time (Gloria) at 301 N. Hillside Drive, a seniors only facility.
Samantha – Zanny’s sister, 2 year older thatn Zanny
Raquel Farrell and
Jennifer Rosa – According to Casey, her Zenaida’s roommates.
Zanny the Nanny – code for Zanax?
Deputy Anthony Rusciano – dated and had intimate relations with Casey. Fired from Orange County Sheriff’s Department on 8/22/08.
Anthony Lazzarro – Works as a DJ as Fusion Restairamt. Resides at 3843 Sutton Place BV, #708 – Orlando FL 32792. Cell phone 631 902 5443. (or 407/273-2789). Age 21
Casey’s boyfriend by June 9th – Says he last saw Caylee on June 2nd. Does not know and has never met Zenaida Gonzalez nor does he know where she lives. Casey mentioned to him several times that Caylee was with the nanny at Disney, Universal Studios, or the beach. She never gave any indication that Caylee was endangered or missing. After learning of Caylee’s disappearance, he contacted Amy Huizenga and had her call the detectives about Casey/Caylee.
Cameron – Lazzaro’s roommate.
Roy Clinton House. Anthony Lazarro’s business partner. while Casey was staying there. DOB 9/21/85. 234 Autum Breeze Way, 32792. DL H200 723 85 341 0
Nate – 772-713-5882. Lazzarro’s roommate – lived together during the time Tony and Casey were “dating.”
Jessie Grund – ex boyfriend, friend of Casey. DOB 11/16/82; 7000 Lk Marsha Drive, 32819; 407/462-9293
Works at Cheesecake FActory on 4200 S. Contry Road
Mark Hawkins – active duty Marine stationed in 29 Palms, California. Communicated with Casey almost daily via telephone and internet.
Ann Marie Chase – Mark Hawkins’ mother (406) 467-8363
Christine Chester – friend of Casey. Claims to be Casey’s best friend. Remembers going on a walk with Casey and Caylee on either June 12, 13, or 14
Sean and Jonathan ? – friends (8 years) of Casey.
Daniel Howard – friend of Lazzaro (513-288-1725)- his May 24 birthday party is when Lazzaro and Casey Meet.
Annie Dowling, 12221 Lake Mary Jane Road – friend of Casey. Previously lived in Sawgrass apartments. See Salati, Dante.
Dante Salati – lives in same apt complex as alleged babysitter. Has been casual friend of Casey’s for 8 years; he has lived in the Sawgrass Apartments (same apartment) for three years.
Amy Huizenga – lives with Ricardo Morales at 232 Glenwood Drive. Casey lived with her since June 9th. She loaned her car to Casey from July 8 – 15th. Can’t recall the last time she saw Caylee.
Will Waters – good friend of Amy’s
Troy Brown – Amy’s previous roommate.
J B Chat – also roommate of Amy’s
Ricardo Morales – 232 Glenwood Drive, cell phone 813-420-8750 – lives with Amy Huizenga and John Philip Chat. Dated Casey from early February, 2008 thru Mid-April 2008.
Jeffrey Hopkins – named by Casey as co-worker at Universal Studios who could confirm her story. Casey claims he introduced her to the nanny, Zenaida. She babysat his son, Zachary Hopkins.
Juliette Lewis – named by Casey as co-worker at Universal Studios who could confirm her story.
Amanda Macklin – 2859 S. Conway Road, 407/658-4134 (manager of Sawgrass Apts)
Dave Turner – maintenance man at Sawgrass Apts – 2859 S. Conway Road, 407 658 4134
Rosanna Bonilla – 301 N. Hillside Avenue, Orlando 32803
Christopher Stutz – another ex-boyfriend of Casey’s.
Leonard Padilla
816 H Street, Suite 244
Sacramento, California 95814
voice: (916) 558-6915
fax: (916) 558-6920
email: info (at) leonardpadilla (dot) com
Parker, Mallory (Lee Anthony’s girlfriend, works at Houston’s Restaurant, Winter …
Waters, William – family friend, was listed on Orange County Jail’s Visitor Log to visit with Casey on July 29, 2008 but the visit was cancelled. Casey was seeing him while Tony out of town.
I DIDNT ADD THE WHOLE NAME OF THE PLACE SHE WORKS SORRY.
Mallory” – Lee Anthony’s girlfriend…possible last name Parker … Parker, Mallory (Lee Anthony’s girlfriend, works at Houston’s Restaurant, Winter Park)