Caylee/Casey Anthony Case: Caylees Autopsy Revelations Part I
Orlando, FL– Under heavy objection last Friday afternoon, Judge Stan Strickland denied the motion on behalf of George and Cindy Anthony to seal Caylee Marie Anthonys autopsy until their daughter Caseys capital murder trial in their granddaughters death. Late Friday afternoon, the Findings of Dr. Jan Garavaglia, Chief Medical Examiner of Orange County were released. In Part I, we explore a few of the notable findings, In Development for Part II, Blinkoncrime will be is creating an interactive 3D Model, incorporating the evidence recovery field, bone disbursement pattern, and anatomical example of the duct tape placement.
The Laundry Bag
Although the report contains a significant amount of anthropologic and forensic data, it does not contain photos or X-Rays, pursuant to the Earnhardt exclusion under Florida Law. Blinkoncrime.com will attempt to offer some observations and in some cases, correct some erroneous information that is being reported in the msm. For starters, the laundry bag picture being circulated, it is incorrect, the image to the left is the correct bag, note the dimensions are exact. The top of this bag does not cinch.
The Duct Tape
I have seen rampant speculation on the duct tape beginning around 15 minutes following the release of the report. 
There are many who believe that Casey Anthony killed her child by wrapping her nose and mouth with duct tape. Allow me to point out the report actually reflects the antithesis of this theory. First, there IS NO TAPE ON THE POSTERIOR of her skull. The only posterior placement of the tape mentioned is still located on the mandible, or face. The tape, which was actually small strips of grey cloth-based, delaminating tape is applied on top of itself, not really feasible with a live toddler. Given the findings that Caylee’s mandible stayed in almost true anatomical position, although slightly posterior and that the hair that was attached to the tape extended from the back of her head and over her head and face, it is likely Caylee was laying on her back when the tape was applied. Henkel makes 2 kinds of duct tape, one is more Industrial grade of adhesive “hot set” over cloth designed for waterproof and outdoor projects. It has not yet been disclosed which formulation was used.
The O Sign
A contributing poster at blinkoncrime gave me something to think about that had not occurred to me. I am on record stating I do believe that Casey Anthony murdered her daughter, and that she will end up pointing the finger at one or both of her parents as a defense strategy.
However, the duct tape never really fit for me. I have always believed it to be a post mortem tactic to stage a kidnapping. I do believe I may have been wrong. Very well known to medical and critical care professionals, there is something called an O effect; occurring at very near death, or shortly following death and before rigormortis sets in.
Some medical people refer to it when the person is very near death or has just died–the jaw drops open. Nothing left to hold the mandible shut. In morgue kits there is a strap that is applied around the jaw to gently close it before rigor sets in. This “O” sign can be very pronounced and unsettling to see first hand. Casey probably wasn’t aware of this and was really spooked by this silent scream and used the duct tape then put a heart sticker on it as a ________
This makes sense to me. The tape is applied in small strips across the nose and mouth areas, catching her hair in the face over the Coronal plane region. One interpretation that may be drawn is that Caylee was lying on her back, upon seeing what Casey had done to her child as evidenced by the relaxed mandible; she attempted to “fix her”. As if covering up the evidence of death on her baby would change things, complete with a heart sticker. No sooner did I arrive at this conclusion on Saturday, did I see Dr.Michael Baden appear on Geraldo Live on Sunday evening bringing up the mortuary kit issue. I am not saying this idea originated here, not that it would be the first time, but it at least tells me there is corroboration within the forensic Medical community as to the premise. The FBI report on the duct tape has not been released. One thing is certain, what I have been stating all along about Casey’s prints being on the duct tape seems foreboding. With multiple strips of tape, chances are there are several. The defense has had this report for months, is this why Casey Anthony retained Todd Macaluso?
Swim Diaper?
There are several remnants recovered that are described as a diaper or pull ip item. However, there are a few that appear to be strictly synthetic. When I read the report, my immediate reaction based on some of the coloring was that it was a “swimmie”, or disposable swim diaper. After mapping out the dimensions and a closer look, I believe it is actually referring to remnants of both a pull up, a reusable swim diaper, or swim floation/assistance device or both, as pictured here:
Paper Towels
Simply stated there is decomposition fluid on paper towels in the plastic garbage bag found in her trunk that came from Tony Lazzarros apartment.
In my opinion, Casey ripped the bag Caylees remains were in when she moved her body into or out of the trunk to her final resting place in the woods off Suburban. The stain in the trunk, emitting the ungodly stench, was the target of the paper towels after Casey returned to TonE’s apartment. She brought the paper towels and garbage bag out with her in an attempt to clean it up and realized almost immediately it was an excerise in futility. Immediately following are her comments to Amy about George Anthony borrowing her car, and the infamous squirrel stowaway story.
Her Clothes
In contrast to only a stitching remnant with a manufactures tag left of her shirt, Caylees shorts were found nearly 2 ft ft away from the laundry bag, in relatively good condition. Based on the reports findings of trunk and femural animal activity and the corresponding recovery area, I am of the opinion that it is not possible that Caylee was wearing those shorts when she was dumped in the woods. Frankly, given the fact that the actual color stripe pattern was discernable versus the condition of the other items, I am suspect Casey was in those woods more than once. How do you get only the collar of a shirt remaining and her shorts completely intact with no noted damage? Lastly, Caylees shoes if she were wearing any, were not recovered.
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Would Dom Casey have been looking in the woods to locate ‘pavers’ (well, we know that), but also to ‘retrieve’ pavers from the scene and dispose of them vs as a ‘psychic tip marker of location’? DC went back to the woods two more times, according to his interview with LE after the body was found. What did he do with the pavers, if he moved them? He went back ‘without Hoover’.
boo
regarding your post 726 and post 822
I wonder if it was justin? or who’s to say it wasnt casey?
#838
I know the names of the plaintiff ZG’s two youngest children are on the Sawgrass guest card although they are not identified on the card as her children. They are merely listed as the names of people who would be sharing the apartment with ZG. The Sawgrass sales consultant, Harry Garcia, told Yuri Melich that ZG told him those were her daughters. That is how Yuri Melich knew that “J” and “M” were the daughters of the woman named ZG who visited Sawgrass on June 17.
The names on the guest card begin with the letters “J” and “M.” A third daughter’s name (found via online records search) also begins with the letter “M.”
When the plaintiff ZG was interviewed by Local 6 on August 7, she said the three daughters (aged 6, 9, and 15) who live with her were upset and confused by the news coverage. I am assuming those are the daughters listed in family services records whose names begin with “J,” “M,” and “M.” During the same interview, ZG said she had visited Sawgrass on June 17 in the company of her son and boyfriend. She said nothing during that interview about her two other children.
The point I was trying to make upthread is that I cannot find a scrap of confirmation anywhere that the plaintiff ZG has a daughter named Samantha – or any relative named Samantha.
boo, are you joking,i havent heard caylee say one cohesive word on her own ,she can repeat things but come up with a word or a sentence from cognitiveness?i was starting to think she was autistic.
sue
loved your comment about the anthonys negative energy!!I agree!!
I often wondered how they could of even put so much energy into defending casey and making her look credible to no avail. while little caylee was totaly put on a shelf so to speak.! nothing the anthonys do will make casey normal nor does she love them or care how they feel. casey loves casey.its about her her her!! she made sure even as she sits in prison its still all about her.
often I wonder what she does all day does she think of her daughter!
I mean she has nothing but time. well maybe not she’s a sociopath!
her life will never be the same no more parties no more drugs no more parade of men !!
makes you wonder doesnt it!
she sits in jail oops not prison
On August 5, George Anthony was seen carting bags of stuffed animals to the curb. Lee Anthony said they were toys that had been donated to the family and none belonged to Caylee. Lee said they considered donating them, but they were in poor condition.
Since the stuffed animals that the Anthonys were getting rid of were being throw out in full view of the public, why would the Anthonys have thrown a bag of stuffed animals into the woods off Suburban in time for Keith Williams to find on August 18?
#848
Susan, I do not understand your comment about the missing person named Samantha. I found information on the Klaas website about a 15-year-old girl named Samantha who disappeared in January 2008.
Missing child Samantha Ann Nelson.
Nickname: Sam
Date Missing: 1/16/2008
Missing From: Sanford, Florida
DOB: 2/17/1993
Age at Disappearance: 15 years old
Sex: Female
Race: Caucasian
Height: 5′ 1″
Weight: 90 lbs.
Eyes: Brown
Hair: Brown
Other: Wears braces on her teeth.
Last seen wearing: Blue jeans and a blue hoodie.
Circumstances: Samantha went missing from Sanford, Florida on January 16, 2008. She may be with several adult females. Samantha has not been seen or heard from since.
***
If this is the case you’re referring to in your 848 comment, I am at a loss to understand how this could be connected to Caylee’s disappearance. Casey said an adult named Samantha who is in her late 20′s and has children of her own, assisted Zanny in kidnapping Caylee. In Casey’s story, Samantha is the person doing the kidnapping, not the person being kidnapped.
Nope susan I have to disagree. When she finished her song she looked up and at her greatgrandpa and asked ” poppa,are you tired, poppa” bright and articulate clearly.
thanks again maura ,yes all of that has been confusing to me ,there was somewhere that said sam was a daughter(it might have been a commenters mistake or typo),then a sister(as claimed by liar casey),but the myspace comment mentions samantha is missing her mom called the police ,in the deleted my space messages this comment is attributed to casey,on sandi myspace page is attributed to we jammin who looks like casey.idont know that its a big deal,but wondered why no one pursued who is the samantha who went missing.
‘KYLE’
Came across something in the Richard Grund interview of the evening of Sept 05, 2008. Grund stated that he had heard the name ‘Kyle’ and he asked Lee who it was. Right after that inquiry, Richard Grund found himself ‘blocked’ from Casey Anthony’s Myspace page.
So, who is this Kyle person and what is his importance to the situation? What was his role as a ‘friend’ to Casey?
No one knew, that on September 12, 2008, a hurricane would form off the coast of Africa, but everyone knew that Central Florida was into the hurricane season. The next hurricane does not get it’s name when the storm becomes known to observers, the naming of hurricanes for the Altlantic, are set in rosters and rotated. The next storm would be named ‘Kyle’.
There are posts on hurricane watching sites, that say things like ‘watch for Hurricane Kyle later this year’– the info for the next hurricane was being discussed, it’s name too, all easily known by Casey and her family members and defense team.
The naming order is predictable, the hurricane season was predictable, storms were predictable to happen.
Was ‘Kyle’ the friend, really a hurricane and the family was aware and sensitive to that information being out there– is that why they blocked Richard Grund from the Myspace page?
If Jesse had Caylee and left her out in the woods, the family would want to find her ASAP– alive for sure, or body also for sure because there would be evidence of someone else involved. But they didn’t, and fought Tim all the way. Framing someone else would be best done when the body evidence was too degraded, if they knew Casey did it vs someone else.
About naming hurricanes, and about ‘Kyle’:
http://visibleearth.nasa.gov/view_rec.php?id=3900
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_naming
The Anthony’s knew Kyle was coming to help. What was on the Myspace page that mentioned Kyle? (haven’t looked that far yet)
Responding to #845 Comment by silverspnr
Paul Kelly was the Anthony family lawyer who was at the kitchen table on July 17. George said in one interview that he had been a family friend since 1990. I don’t believe they had “lawyered up” on July 17. I do believe Paul Kelly was there to offer support and assistance (understandable IMO given that their granddaughter was missing and their daughter jailed). I do not believe he was there because Cindy and George were trying to shield THEMSELVES from LE.
re#854, i apologize if that sounded crass.
#849
In the conversation secretly taped on July 29 between Anthony Lazzaro and Lee Anthony, Lee said LE had told him that Jesse had basically been asked to leave OPD because he is a hot head and that Ricardo had a narcotics history.
(Oops– the nasa.gov ‘Kyle’ link was for the 2002 Hurricane Kyle)
Here’s the complete 2008 Hurricane Kyle info from NASA:
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/hurricanes/archives/2008/h2008_kyle.html
The site also states:
“peak hurricane time doesn’t arrive until late-summer and early fall, there are some oceanic signals that give a hint of coming activity and NASA satellites are helping to provide that data.
The Atlantic Ocean Hurricane Season runs from June 1 to November 30″
Casey’s activities in March– was she thinking of the next storm season, and how it might fit into her plans already? Or just co-incidence?
Maura and suz, what I’m saying is that kw was told by his friend justin there was a bag in the woods. Justin is also a friend of lees. Who told justin, was it casey or was it lee? Kw called baez in august and told someone who claimed to have knowledge of the case and worked with baez and would forward the message to baez. (Dom casey perhaps)? Idk. about the bag. He showed the bag to cindy then calls le and officer cain arrives and he sees it. He also.tells george .baez did not return kw message. Baez did not want to speak to kw until after blink posted her articles.also on 12/11 george calls to speak to the person that keith is currently speaking to. Why? Now I’m basing my theory of the bag on these events. And lees behavior about the stuffed animals. That means that tthere were at least 8 people who knew about that bag.plus the person who put it there. The one who told justin. And also possibly rk saw it. Am I supposed to believe that lee didn’t know the bag was there? Nuh uh
Oh yeah I forgot to mention that i also noticed that casey was not released on bail until 8/21. So if casey told the source where the bag was while she was in jail, wouldnt it have been recorded?
maura, thanks again ,very confusing sons daughters,but my point is who is the samantha that went missing,the comment in casey anthony deleted myspace comments is attibuted to casey but on sandi’s page it is attibuted to we jammin who looks like casey,but what happened to samantha,i guess its no big deal.i left a comment maura that explained this better but it disappeared(my computer keeps freezing)
Kleat, Maura and Silverspnr, The three of you seem to have the most accurate information on this site (other than Blink and Red Ranger). Do any of you really believe Casey confessed to any wrong doing? It just doesn’t seem to fit her personality. She seems like the type of person who could look at a photograph of herself caught in action and still deny what she’s done. I personally think Cindy, George and Lee started putting the puzzle together because of Casey’s lack of the truth- I really don’t think she confessed. Any ideas?
Hi Blink. Your work here is brilliant. In post #281, I asked if playhouse foundation pavers could have been removed to mark Caylee’s location site in the woods, and you replied that you thought Dom was looking for pavers. Your expanded reply to comment #845 rings true to me. Taking it further, if the location site was known by markers, how many visitations were made and by whom, in which ways was the area compromised, and to what specific purpose?
Maura did you say the anthonys got rid of the donated stuffed animals on 8/5? Did you know there was a search in a wooded area near a local school with cadaver dogs on 8/5? And then on 8/6 the abthony home was searched by le for a third time? And kw desribed the stuffed animals he found as very nice, he couldn’t understand why anyone would throw out such nice toys?
Blink, I’m warming up to your theory that the ants found something disturbed (and disturbing) in the yard on July 3 (otherwise, the theories that Cin was missing caylee and really wanting to spend the 4th with her, plus her vacation, makes total sense for why she stepped up her efforts to find casey/caylee and they did their yard makeover). I like the idea that she couldn’t fit the pavers back in place and that’s why she took them. Then I was thinking, what if she was thinking of putting the pavers in the bag with the body and dumping it in a lake so it would sink? Maybe they are what tore the bags and caused the decomp spill in the trunk. Just thinking aloud. I realize they didn’t tear the laundry bag, for instance, so maybe that’s a bum theory.
NoseyRosey, I don’t know anything but second-hand and reading what is out there and I am behind a lot of the stuff. No idea about Casey or confession, but a guess, would be no. If she had, I’d have to wonder why her lawyers would go for ‘innocent’ claim repeatedly in public, rather than ‘not guilty’. That would suggest that they have info that Casey did not do it and would be presenting that at trial, or expected to explain ‘why’ they say she is actually innocent, rather than just not guilty. (at least, that’s what one of the defense lawyer commentators remarked on, well, think two of them did, from competing news stations).
Blink and crew are the ones who go out and talk to people first hand– whole other level to my comments.
comment #819 lee never met keith,how could he claim to be a childhood friend of casey’s his sister alison was best friends with casey buried pets(as did kiomarie and jessica supposedly with her, but never met lee?
Lee also claimed not to know what friends of Casey were at Sawgrass and he didn’t even know the gender of Annie’s roommate. AS per his deposition at M&M. That makes no sense with a friend like Annie Downing. Go figure what Lee knows and doesn’t know about his sister.
I want to respond to some that think that Casey put alot of planning into anything that went down with the murder of her daughter Caylee. I really have a hard time giving this girl that much credit. Casey seems to have poor impulse control, and I can’t see her thinking ahead to plan and plot with any great stategy. The rage she felt the night of June 15th, morning of June 16th was a boiling over of many such confrontations with her parents. This I believe led to her giving into her impulse to murder Caylee and put an end to her present problems. Her lack of impulse control led to her having many sexual partners, constant texting, her ever constant lies, stealing from friends and family, and sleezy displays of public affection towards others. And let’s not forget her use of drugs and dropping out of H.S. – all impulses that don’t require looking past an hour time period. Instant gratification!
She may have planned different scenarios in her mind over many months, (hence the researches on computer etc.) in regards to killing Caylee, but it took this “TRIGGER” – the emotionally and physically charged fight with Cindy the night of June 15th to set her off. The combination of frustration, rage and lack of impulse control that night all came together and BOOM – she acted!
I don’t feel she had a plan of getting rid of the body until the pressure became so great that she had to act. The summer storm season may have given her an advantage, but in some ways, it did not really help her. There is still the TRUTH about the duct tape and that speaks volumes in and of itself. BLINK is right – this baby will speak to all of us that care.
It is hard to put ourselves in the mind of such a deviant, immoral person such as Casey. It would use up too much energy to even try. The only planning she’s ever done is to try to cover up her criminal activity so she doesn’t go down in a ball of flames. She is a pathologically troubled criminal, and not a very smart one at that.
Duh, the light just went on. I’ve been reading the blogs for the past week or so and I could not understand the part where blink kept saying something happened on 7/3 and that there was alot of activity.
Now I think I’m getting it. If DC was sent out in the woods and discoved the pavers that were from the A’s house, than it was not a psychic who was on the phone with DC. If it was one of the A’s that sent him out there, they would have to know that Caylee was already dead. But why would he take Hoover out there to search. I mean if they knew something was there wouldn’t they have wanted to keep this secret.
Oh gosh, I’m confusing myself again. Back to the reading. When I read it sounds so reasonable and have had many “Aha” moments but then
when I read other blogs posted, I get confused again. Not much talent for this, but I do make great cookies. lol. I’ll just keep on digging. Thanks Blink
#351, did Dominic remove the pavers?
maura ,thanks for looking,http://www.myspace.com/allnamesitypearetaken on page two of comments (you have to click on: view all comments ),then go to page two,that is where samantha went missing and her mom called the cops,we jammin looks like casey. on dostoc.com casey anthony deleted my space messages page 28 this comment about samantha missing comes from casey,casey mom ,caseomarie or such.
I would also like to list the people who seemed to have knowledge of the site where caylee was found. We have rk the meter reader who called the le on 8/11,, keiths sister who buried her pets there with casey , if what kw said about his sister is true,, the guy on the phone who took info from keith when he called baez, keith himself who used to skateboard back there with his friend justin who is also a friend to lee, kiomarie who also buried pets there with casey. So at least five people knew.. And rk! Keith and dom casey all searched that location. Also rk kiomarie and keith all called in tips. Also four of them appear to have known either casey or lee or both. And one of them worked with the anthonys and with baez. Interesting, no?.
If they knew something was there, they could document the ‘fact’ that no body was ‘there’. That’s what they did, listen to Cindy’s Mn’M depo, she talked about it. If they knew where the body was specifically, then they could easily avoid it.
Look at how DC took a barbeque skewer tool, to shove it into the ground. He could have pushed that right thru the little skull– he wasn’t pushing it into the ground to expect a body. That was for the camera ‘to prove no body was there’ so there could be defense arguments of the body not being there.
No one said DC took pavers, just speculation, if pavers were missing, where did they go? Maybe they were moved away from the body location– who knows. DC claims client privilege so he can’t talk– so far.
Responding to #871, comment by boo — July 6, 2009 @ 2:47 pm
The media saw George taking bags of stuffed animals to the curb on August 5 and reported it, which is why I know the date.
The following day, August 6, armed with search warrant, tool kit, and black lights, CSI searched Anthony home (for the third time) for three hours and came out with 4-6 bags of evidence. We now know they were gathering clothing from Casey’s and Caylee’s closets.
I would have expected OCSO to check the clothing prior to August 6, but perhaps they were motivated by the sight of George Anthony taking bags of unknown items to the curb.
As for the cadaver dog search of “The Zone,” the wooded area where Casey, Kiomarie, and Jessica hung out as teenagers, I have never been able to find a date for the cadaver dog search there, but it makes no sense at all that OCSO would have waited 17 days after talking to Kiomarie (on July 19) to send dogs to check the woods near the school. Bodies decompose too quickly in the Florida heat, and if they thought there was a good chance Caylee was buried in The Zone (as they did), they would have sent dogs over there pronto.
Kiomarie called LE on July 19 to report her suspicions. After learning from an Anthony neighbor that same day that Casey had borrowed a shovel from Brian Burner, Kiomarie immediately thought of The Zone. The neighbor told her to call LE, which she did. OCSO was so eager to talk to her that they asked her to meet Detective Appie Wells that same night at 9:53pm in front of the Hidden Oaks Elementary School. It’s clear from the transcript that the two of them walked to the area of The Zone so that Wells would know its location.
It would made no sense whatsoever for LE to wait for 17 days, until August 5, before sending cadaver dogs to that area.
My point is this three people tried to do right by caylee by searching and or calling le all called and or search while casey was still in jail. I am thinking it was keith who gave the info to dom in august while casey was in jail. So we can pretty much rule out the psycic angle imo. Rk kiomarie and keith called law enforcement. Baez, dom, did not. I get sad when I think about what this all means. Sad for caylee.
Blink-
You were onto that date –July 3– before most even caught it. Your insight is keen.
It just pains me to go back over, and over, and over the available evidence, because I was genuinely feeling empathy/sympathy for George at first.
Now… I am at a loss.
The fact that he was already being dishonest with LE by the afternoon of July 17, 2008…
Wow. That says a lot.
I think Cindy’s text message to Casey on the 15th –after they got the car from the tow lot– was a clear sign right away that she was something other than simply a concerned mother/grandmother. And she has been so defensive/offensive, that –for good reason–she never garnered anywhere near the amount of sympathy that George did.
But the more you look back… and the more closely you look back…
There is something very OFF with him from the very start as well.
Why did he need to secretly go to LE in the early days to try to be buddy-buddy with them/to kind of rat out Cindy on her defensiveness?
Why did he have LE call Lee to get him there under somewhat false pretenses to listen to the 911 tapes with him??? (Wouldn’t you call your own son and simply invite him to be there with you to hear the tapes?? He could have said he just stopped by to offer a tip or whatever, instead of PRETENDING he hadn’t been there)
Really– I think it matters. WHY on earth did he NEED Lee to be there??? And why did he get sick BEFORE he even heard the tapes???? He had already smelled the decomposition in the trunk of that car by that time. What could (potentially) be worse in a Cindy 911 call?????!
And how in the H did he (and/or Cindy) believe anyone would buy that story about their being concerned that CASEY could be in dead in the trunk along with Caylee???!
That makes NO SENSE if you closely examine the other statements.
A- Cindy had spoken to and/or texted with Casey AFTER the date the car was towed;
B-George (depending on which version of the putative chase date occurred/when he claims to have last seen her in person) either saw her or had reason to KNOW that Casey was still alive (even via her contact with Cindy and/or Lee and/or friends who Lee was in contact with).. AND
C- Does anyone really believe these two would bring their own gas cans AND PAY HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS to get that stinky car back from the tow company if they really wanted to locate Caylee/hold someone (other than their sociopath daughter) responsible??!
Any one of us who had any concern about the welfare of our own child and/or grandchild would have called 911 in a heartbeat FROM THE TOW LOT if we could smell an obvious decomposition odor coming from the trunk of that car on the tow lot!
No need to pay a single red cent to get that car back. It was clearly part of a CRIME SCENE– and GEORGE KNEW IT… and CINDY KNEW IT…
And as soon as LEE was summoned home, HE KNEW IT. And yet.. these people.. with all of their financial trouble.. and anger at Casey for not allowing them any access to Caylee..
THEY PAY THE FEE?? And he drives that death-mobile all the way home?????
Even Lee said the death scent was overwhelming just to be around for a short while, even later that night– after that car had been sitting with open windows/doors for HOURS at the house.
Just take a moment to think about this:
They had that car at their home –and in their garage– with the scent of Caylee’s decomposing body in it–for HOURS before the call to LE.
It is so sick.. and so sickening… that I have to believe they are all covering up a more sick/sicking family secret than we are privy to at this point (any may never learn about in truth).
Don’t forget.. they were all OK with “throwing Casey under the bus” for a while. Cindy had freely bad-mouthed her to her closest friends.. even to Jesse when he was engaged to Casey/caring for Caylee; and both Lee and George appeared to be providing LE with statements about her proclivity to lie, etc early on –or at least when they were being officially questioned.
What terribly shameful secret are the Anthony clan hiding?????
It’s just beyond disgusting to imagine.
All of the above– just IMHO.
#815 Sue- I agree with all of the engery they’ve spent trying to hide the truth. It does not look like they’re going to come clean anytime in the near future.
As a parent who has buried a 14-year-old son, Mackie, after his negligent physician sent him home with a pair of ace bandages for heart failure, and he collapsed and died from treatable myocarditis… I joined a couple of child loss support groups. The one I have been most involved with is a world-wide, self-help group supporting families who have lost a child (of any age) to death (from any cause). I’ve attended their meetings, and been involved with leadership, and many of their events since my son’s death in ’02. I have many friends whose children have been murdered. I have a couple of friends whose spouses or children murdered the children. It’s a hellish experience for the survivors. Survival for them is day-to-day. In fact, that is true of bereaved parents, in general, for quite some time (if not indefinitely).
That doesn’t mean that it’s okay to assist in a cover-up, after one’s child has murdered their grandchild. What it does mean is that the sudden traumatic death (particularly murder) of a person’s child or grandchild can really drive a person over the edge. It seems to me that the Anthony’s are desperate, panicked, to prevent Casey from the DP. That they’re scared of losing her, too. You never know what you’ll do unless you’re faced with a situation. I am fortunate to have four surviving children, none of whom are sociopaths. I love them all very much. If any one of them, God forbid, murdered someone…particularly my beloved grandchild, I do not believe I would lie and cover up for them. I think I’d have a hard time forgiving them, if I was ever able to, but I would quite probably push for LWOP, over the DP. I’d like to think I’d support them in telling the truth, and accepting responsibility for their actions.
As for exhausting reading my post…welp, don’t read it, then. Just gloss over it, and go on. I can tell you that it was exhausting to bury my child. And that it has, at times, been exhausting supporting friends who have lost children to murder. It’s been exhausting taking calls, and it is exhausting to wind down from an annual candle-light remembrance for children who have died. It is never-ending.
One of the saddest situations I’ve ever been privy to is a local lady whose (meth addicted) daughter and daughter’s boyfriend chained the girl’s toddler to the toilet, and left him there to die (I am not certain, but I believe it was because of a potty accident). The grandmother of the child had been to counseling, and support groups (both through and independent of CPS), and was trying “tough love”…ignoring calls from the daughter. This was a case that shook up the Sacramento area CPS some years ago. The grandmother of that baby raised the baby’s surviving older sibling, and has struggled (with “what ifs”) for many years. I believe she writes her daughter. But she never tried to cover up for her. CPS was involved, and they failed.
I don’t hate the Anthony’s, and I absolutely pity them. As for justice for Caylee, I hope her mother is convicted, and held accountable for her murder. I don’t think that is really justice, though. I don’t think there can ever be justice when a child is murdered. That’s partial vendication. Justice would be a healthy, life child.
Maura I was checking back thru ng transcripts after reading the kw articles. I found the 8/5 search there. A local reporter from wftv was on and reporting on the search. Check the transcripts from 8/5. They were searching the zone on 8/5.
To clarify- #815 Sue- I agree with all of the engery they’ve spent trying to hide the truth. It does not look like they’re going to come clean anytime in the near future.
SHOULD READ
#815 Sue- I agree with YOU REGARDING all of the engery they’ve spent trying to hide the truth. It does not look like they’re going to come clean anytime in the near future.
Maura I would imagine it would take some time to organize a cadaver dog search. 7 days seems to be resonable. But why were the anthonys disposing of evidence on the same day a search was going on? Do you suppose its possible keith was observing the search and saw what the ants were doing? Then went there searching and found it? Did they leave it there then for the searchers to find maybe?
I commented earlier that I thought it was great that the A.s were finally staying out of the media. Was I ever wrong! Just read that they have been in their Ohio “home town” passing out Caylee Bears to a children’s clinic and the Sheriff’s Dept. I feel sure they raised $$ for Kidfinders etc… to make the trip “worthwhile.” THESE PEOPLE ARE SHAMELESS! They have done NOTHING as far as I can tell, to help ANY child. They have only helped themselves! Surely, that is illegal. They appear to be “on a roll” and have no intention of stopping as long as the money keep rolling in. In spite of their GREED…CAYLEE’S LITTLE VOICE WILL STILL BE HEARD, LOUD AND CLEAR, BY THE THOUSANDS OF US WHO LOVE HER! JUSTICE FOR CAYLEE WILL SOON HAPPEN!
Maura nope strick that last bit I said about leaving it for the searchers to find I don’t believe that. But keith did mention to blink seeing a guy out there on 8/5 and a truck parked as well. What does lee drive?
Blink,
Concerning DC’s claim of privilege, with regard to discussion and evidence, does a PI have privilege, in the same sense that a lawyer-client do? Was he hired by a lawyer, and, thus, his investigation is considered privileged? I’ve heard of doctors, lawyers, and priests/clergy having privileged conversations, but never a PI. I know that lawyer-client conversations cannot be divulged by the lawyer. Okay…so DC was actually the Anthony’s PI, right? So if there was a lawyer involved, then the privilege would extend to them. If my lawyer and I hire a PI to investigate, and he discovers evidence concerning a murder (evidence that does not put me in jeopardy), is that evidence privileged? If it is not privileged, then is it not incumbent upon a person stumbling on a child’s body to call the police? I mean, let alone basic human decency… is it legal to just walk past a child’s body, and not call the authorities?
Clearly, if someone covers up…moving a body or evidence, that is obstruction, right?
When he works for a lawyer yes, he does. But theres a few things wrong with that scenario Baez will regret.
B
Just to clarify…
If you had a horrible argument with your daughter, causing her to disappear with your little angel–
And you got legal notice that your car (which you had kindly permitted your basically deadbeat daughter to use exclusively) was impounded on a tow lot… and you went there to retrieve it, knowing– or learning–that it had been impounded over 2 WEEKS earlier.. and you had not laid an eye or ear upon your little angel for an entire MONTH, because your own daughter kept telling you story after story after UNBELIEVABLE STORY about the fact that you could not speak to her…
AND then, when you got to the tow lot, THE OBVIOUS, PURTRID SMELL OF A DECOMPOSING BODY WAS COMING FROM THE TRUNK…
Would you text your daughter that there was a MAJOR PROBLEM and that she needed to be in touch, and then go back to work?? (as Cindy did)
OR…
Would you IMMEDIATELY call 911 to make a report and then call/text your daughter NON-STOP and BEG HER TO CALL/TEXT/SOMEHOW SIMPLY LET YOU KNOW THAT AT THE VERY LEAST, SHE WAS OK??!
This is very probative circumstantial evidence that CINDY KNEW CASEY WAS ALIVE AND WELL that afternoon.. and that she KNEW that CASEY needed assistance in covering up a HORRIFIC CRIME.
That George drove that car home…
I think he knew the same. How, on earth, can he explain not calling 911– or doing whatever he could to chase Casey down IMMEDIATELY??!
He drove that STINKING CAR ALL THE WAY HOME,…. and then just went to work??????
There is NO WAY you would go to work (or in Cindy’s case, go BACK to work) to give your child–who you suspected MIGHT BE DEAD- to EXPLAIN.
You would be FRANTIC to learn that your child was ALIVE… that your grandchild was ALIVE…
UNLESS –again–you already knew what both Cindy and George clearly knew on that day, to wit:
Casey– who needed to explain– was ALIVE/just needed to be FOUND to EXPLAIN (why the car ended up NOT being disposed of properly.. and WHERE CAYLEE’S BODY WAS LOCATED).
This is why I believe on that first jailhouse visit, Cindy’s first comment to Casey was, “WE forgive anything you SAID” (to which Casey immediately responded–JUBILANTLY, “Don’t worry! I haven’t said anything!” (or something to that effect).
They needed to know if she SAID anything they had to deal with/spin.
This is why Cindy PROBES Casey– in that subsequent jail house visit…
“I was at XXXX … Is there anyTHING there????” (anyTHING??? )
And this is when Casey blew her lid. “MOM!!!”
And we finally saw it. She got ANGRY, “for the first time” since being there… She allowed that thin veneer of civility to disintegrate into a teeth-gritting display of abject HATRED.
This is just the BEGINNING.
There is MORE than a MOUNTAIN of additional evidence– 31 DAYS… PHANTOM NANNY with PHANTOM RELATIVES/ADDRESSES… LIES ABOUT EMPLOYMENT, including FAKE EMAILS FROM A FAKE BOSS (who turns out to be the name of a local scam artist)…FINGERPRINTS… PAVERS…. BUGS… CLOTHING… TRASH BAGS…CANINE HITS… COMPUTER SEARCHES… etc, etc etc OH.. and FAKE INDENTITY (if Blink hit that particular nail on the head with Annie and Zanny’s Excellent Adventure)…
They can try to falsely accuse whomever they wish (and if there is NO TRUTH to the accusations about Jesse leaving his LE post, then yes, Kleat.. perhaps even a civil defamation suit should be in the works)…
The more time that goes by.. and the more time there is to read, review the statements/time line/forensic evidence..
the more the TRUTH will be revealed.
Just imagine if this case had been tried months ago as some would like. In this case, swift is not best.
The lies will unravel themselves, and the knots which bind this sick family together, will surely come undone.
Blink– could the ‘few things wrong with that scenario’ be the concept that privilege is lost if a third party is present when a discussion takes place?
Well the third party would not be extended privlege if they were not an “agency” of the defense, no. I am referring to simultaneous and in one case overlapping agreements with Dom Casey.
and, they have to still figure out the ‘retainer-roundabout’.
I have never seen an interview with Casey stating the Blanchard park incident, nor anything about a Samantha. Wasn’t this lee’s version that he told LE? The Anthony’s are not Casey. People seem to get them all lumped together as ONE in fact Casey has said very little in this case, and what she did say was in the first 24hs of the investigation.
When I started on this case in January, one of the first audio’s I heard was her phone call from Jail. Something that stood out in that phone call caused me concern…Casey stated, LE already told her that if caylee is not found, they are going to pin it on her.
Then I read her interviews and I have viewed them very differently than others had. NOTE: I’m not stating either view is right or wrong..just different.
She did admit to stealing, and lying, however there was some points that she was very adamant about even when they were trying all the hard tactics – calling her a liar over and over (im sure this did not faze her,sounds like her family has been calling her a liar for a very long time) like “I dropped her off at those stairs” and the “entrance carousels of universal” and that she “gave them the information but that they didn’t want to see it? (like trying to communicate with my husband so my kids don’t hear or see what I am trying to tell him- using a nod or a gesture, like “look don’t you see what I’m trying to tell you?”)
We love it when Blink gives us clues to follow up on – we call her brilliant!
Yet a young single mother does the same and we call her a liar.
no disrespect intended) however I’m sure you get my meaning.
Yes..I KNOW not the exact same thing,(sorry about the comparison blink
I agree with Blink that something happened on the 3rd of July, this could be when Casey was made aware that who ever had Caylee and may not be giving her back.
Do I know if Casey killed Caylee? NO I don’t know..I do know after researching this case that from “DAY ONE” this young mother was looked at as the ONLY suspect. If she is not guilty, I believe it would be a great lesson for us all..however I am not so sure that will be the case(Casey being found not guilty).
Quick question: does anyone know what construction company was working on apt #210 at sawgrass. I saw it one time in a long list, that looked like permits for the city of orlando. Now I cant find it again. (not in case docs)
Responding to #869, comment by NoseyRosey — July 6, 2009 @ 2:02 pm
I personally do not believe Casey ever told any member of her legal team or family that Caylee’s body was in the Suburban Drive woods. Would she ever admit to anything? That’s a good question. She might admit to an accident if she thought she could get away with it and if the alternative appeared to be LWOP, but even then, I believe Jesse Grund and Ryan Pasley were right when they told LE that if something happened to Caylee, even an accident, that Casey could NEVER admit it to Cindy. And IMO that is an important consideration when speculating about a possible plea deal down the line.
George was asked if Casey believes she would not be forgiven even if Caylee’s death was accidental, and is answer was telling (Page 41 of George’s July 24 OCSO interview transcript):
John Allen: Do you think that Casey believes, uh, that nobody would forgive her if something happened, if some accident happened, some bad thing?
George Anthony: That’s, that is, that’s, I’m not going to answer. I’m going to think about that (inaudible).
Wow. But according to Lee, Casey claimed that Cindy had often thrown in Casey’s face that she was an unfit mother and Casey also allegedly claimed that Cindy referred to Caylee as Casey’s mistake, the best mistake Casey ever made, but nevertheless a mistake. With that kind of background, could Casey ever admit to having a role in Caylee’s death, even one of benign inattention?
***
The Jim Hoover/Dominic Casey/Suburban Drive woods/abandoned house on Brackenwood/Ginny Lucas the psychic business is a head-scratcher for sure. Hoover tried to get TES to search those woods on November 8, a full week before the psychic had her “vision” in the early morning hours of November 15. The abandoned house is owned by a Gonzalez family. Etc., etc.
The whole thing reeks of a set-up, but I nevertheless do not believe Casey played an active role. Roy Kronk thought those woods would be an ideal place for Casey to dispose of the body, and so (independently) did his co-worker David Dean. Keith Williams was drawn to the area as a “good” burial ground. Kiomarie Cruz immediately thought of those woods when she heard Casey had borrowed a shovel. Even crazy Joy Wray went to those woods multiple times.
The crime investigators would have known by the smell in Casey’s car that she didn’t have a plan to dispose of the body and had waited long enough for the body to have spilled decomposition fluids onto the trunk liner. They could have surmised that when she did get rid of the body, it was under duress and in a panicked state. That would support the idea of an “easy as possible” disposal.
Casey’s videotaped jail comments along the lines of “I feel she’s close to home” have made many people think that Casey didn’t go far to dispose of the body.
As for the trash bags and pavers . . . Months ago, I was watching Geraldo, and he pulled up footage that his crew had taken around August 11 of the wooded area off Suburban Drive, and the footage showed multiple trash bags. They were all over the place, and neighbors have confirmed that those woods were a kind of convenient local dump for a lot of people. The pavers were so plentiful in those woods that Susan Mears, the crime scene supervisor following the discovery of the remains on December 11, said the CSIs were told to stop flagging “landscape stones” when it became apparent that they were everywhere.
Ginny Lucas said she and Dominic Casey had been in contact by email since August. Then she received the teddy bear in late October, and after studying some maps of the area, she had a revelation in the early morning hours of November 15 and thereafter directed Dominic Casey to those woods and told him to look for large stones and trash bags. He couldn’t miss either of those things.
The inclusion of the Gonzalez’s abandoned Brackenwood house (which is visible from Suburban Drive across a retaining pond) is what really makes the whole deal a set-up.
How they arranged it, I couldn’t say. But I can easily believe Dominic Casey scouted the area to catch sight of the pavers and trash bags and then either directly or indirectly fed that information to Lucas.
#879
Susan, I did see that, but I don’t use MySpace or Facebook, so I don’t know how the friends’ links work. I did see that some people on Websleuths who do understand how those things work concluded that Casey had not left that “Samantha” message.
This is from the August 5 NG transcript, and from what Nikki Pierce said, the search that day was following a tip that had also come in that same day:
GRACE: That they went out there? Well, Delores, interesting you would bring that up because there are reports that we`re trying to confirm right now that cadaver dogs were sent out to a local elementary school.
Very quickly, Nikki Pierce, what can you tell us about that?
PIERCE: Well, they were sent out to search a wooded area near an elementary school.
GRACE: Today?
PIERCE: Based on a tip today, as we understand it. And the cadaver dogs did not hit on anything at that particular time.
***
If that search on August 5 was following up on Kiomarie’s July 19 tip, then I will be astonished. When a deputy saw a disturbed area in the Anthony backyard on July 17, the dogs were there within hours. It doesn’t take long to get the K9 dogs on a search, and I will be gobsmacked if OCSO waited 17 days to search for a body that they believed had already been decomposing for six weeks.
Keith Williams said he ran into reporters on August 5, not OCSO searchers with dogs. He said he thought the reporter he talked to was Holly Bristol, but when he checked with her later, she said it was not her and must have been a blond reporter from New York. KW said he directed the cameraman and reporter to the area where he observed four or five heavy trash bags in the woods.
#892- Silverspn,
I would have called 911 a hell of a lot sooner than a month after my grandkid was missing. Let Casey explain where she is. If they’d have called sooner, she would have been forced to produce Caylee. At least she would have been arrested sooner. It boggles my mind. Nothing justifies their actions… it is crazy… they knew or should have known that Caylee was dead after all of the lies and excuses not to produce her, and having retrieved the car. I cant imagine there was any doubt after that.
You know what I think? I think they have dug a huge, very deep hole for themselves. Both of the Anthony parents, and possibly their son, too (unless he cuts a deal). In fact…IMO…Lee should cut a deal. If he has information that will reveal the truth, and force Casey to be held accountable, he should offer it up, and negotiate a deal for his role in the coverup (obstruction).
It’s sad…pathetically sad. And what was the motivation? To save their sociopathic kid? So sad…incomprehensible that a woman would murder her own toddler, that her parents would the destroy their own lives trying to cover up her actions. They lost their granddaughter, I would be willing to bet money that their daughter will be convicted, and no they’ve destroyed their own lives. No wonder George attempted suicide.
BTW, the Larry King interview was revealing. I saw Cindy coaching George, and I saw her admonish him. I also saw her grit her teeth to keep from flinching when Larry asked if they’d ever asked Casey if she did it, and Cindy said “Yes”, and he asked what she said, and Cindy said “She said no”, and Larry said “And you believed her?”, and Cindy said “Yes”. Please… she can’t really believe that.
I actually suspect they’re really over the edge crazy as a result of Caylee’s death, and knowing that their daughter is the culprit, and that she is likely to fry. George does not look like he will physically survive this. He is out of his mind.
I am awaiting their surprise suspect, though…the person they allude to. Probably one of Casey’s recent boyfriends…I am guessing the one who wanted to go to PR. They trying to blame him? Can you hear that story? “He killed her accidentally, then he threatened Casey’s life if she told anyone, and he threatened to kill her family while she was incarcerated, if she didn’t do what he said, so she couldn’t say anything. But she didn’t do it. She was the victim.” (she, not Caylee, right?)