Caylee/Casey Anthony Case: Caylees Autopsy Revelations Part I
Orlando, FL– Under heavy objection last Friday afternoon, Judge Stan Strickland denied the motion on behalf of George and Cindy Anthony to seal Caylee Marie Anthonys autopsy until their daughter Caseys capital murder trial in their granddaughters death. Late Friday afternoon, the Findings of Dr. Jan Garavaglia, Chief Medical Examiner of Orange County were released. In Part I, we explore a few of the notable findings, In Development for Part II, Blinkoncrime will be is creating an interactive 3D Model, incorporating the evidence recovery field, bone disbursement pattern, and anatomical example of the duct tape placement.
The Laundry Bag
Although the report contains a significant amount of anthropologic and forensic data, it does not contain photos or X-Rays, pursuant to the Earnhardt exclusion under Florida Law. Blinkoncrime.com will attempt to offer some observations and in some cases, correct some erroneous information that is being reported in the msm. For starters, the laundry bag picture being circulated, it is incorrect, the image to the left is the correct bag, note the dimensions are exact. The top of this bag does not cinch.
The Duct Tape
I have seen rampant speculation on the duct tape beginning around 15 minutes following the release of the report. 
There are many who believe that Casey Anthony killed her child by wrapping her nose and mouth with duct tape. Allow me to point out the report actually reflects the antithesis of this theory. First, there IS NO TAPE ON THE POSTERIOR of her skull. The only posterior placement of the tape mentioned is still located on the mandible, or face. The tape, which was actually small strips of grey cloth-based, delaminating tape is applied on top of itself, not really feasible with a live toddler. Given the findings that Caylee’s mandible stayed in almost true anatomical position, although slightly posterior and that the hair that was attached to the tape extended from the back of her head and over her head and face, it is likely Caylee was laying on her back when the tape was applied. Henkel makes 2 kinds of duct tape, one is more Industrial grade of adhesive “hot set” over cloth designed for waterproof and outdoor projects. It has not yet been disclosed which formulation was used.
The O Sign
A contributing poster at blinkoncrime gave me something to think about that had not occurred to me. I am on record stating I do believe that Casey Anthony murdered her daughter, and that she will end up pointing the finger at one or both of her parents as a defense strategy.
However, the duct tape never really fit for me. I have always believed it to be a post mortem tactic to stage a kidnapping. I do believe I may have been wrong. Very well known to medical and critical care professionals, there is something called an O effect; occurring at very near death, or shortly following death and before rigormortis sets in.
Some medical people refer to it when the person is very near death or has just died–the jaw drops open. Nothing left to hold the mandible shut. In morgue kits there is a strap that is applied around the jaw to gently close it before rigor sets in. This “O” sign can be very pronounced and unsettling to see first hand. Casey probably wasn’t aware of this and was really spooked by this silent scream and used the duct tape then put a heart sticker on it as a ________
This makes sense to me. The tape is applied in small strips across the nose and mouth areas, catching her hair in the face over the Coronal plane region. One interpretation that may be drawn is that Caylee was lying on her back, upon seeing what Casey had done to her child as evidenced by the relaxed mandible; she attempted to “fix her”. As if covering up the evidence of death on her baby would change things, complete with a heart sticker. No sooner did I arrive at this conclusion on Saturday, did I see Dr.Michael Baden appear on Geraldo Live on Sunday evening bringing up the mortuary kit issue. I am not saying this idea originated here, not that it would be the first time, but it at least tells me there is corroboration within the forensic Medical community as to the premise. The FBI report on the duct tape has not been released. One thing is certain, what I have been stating all along about Casey’s prints being on the duct tape seems foreboding. With multiple strips of tape, chances are there are several. The defense has had this report for months, is this why Casey Anthony retained Todd Macaluso?
Swim Diaper?
There are several remnants recovered that are described as a diaper or pull ip item. However, there are a few that appear to be strictly synthetic. When I read the report, my immediate reaction based on some of the coloring was that it was a “swimmie”, or disposable swim diaper. After mapping out the dimensions and a closer look, I believe it is actually referring to remnants of both a pull up, a reusable swim diaper, or swim floation/assistance device or both, as pictured here:
Paper Towels
Simply stated there is decomposition fluid on paper towels in the plastic garbage bag found in her trunk that came from Tony Lazzarros apartment.
In my opinion, Casey ripped the bag Caylees remains were in when she moved her body into or out of the trunk to her final resting place in the woods off Suburban. The stain in the trunk, emitting the ungodly stench, was the target of the paper towels after Casey returned to TonE’s apartment. She brought the paper towels and garbage bag out with her in an attempt to clean it up and realized almost immediately it was an excerise in futility. Immediately following are her comments to Amy about George Anthony borrowing her car, and the infamous squirrel stowaway story.
Her Clothes
In contrast to only a stitching remnant with a manufactures tag left of her shirt, Caylees shorts were found nearly 2 ft ft away from the laundry bag, in relatively good condition. Based on the reports findings of trunk and femural animal activity and the corresponding recovery area, I am of the opinion that it is not possible that Caylee was wearing those shorts when she was dumped in the woods. Frankly, given the fact that the actual color stripe pattern was discernable versus the condition of the other items, I am suspect Casey was in those woods more than once. How do you get only the collar of a shirt remaining and her shorts completely intact with no noted damage? Lastly, Caylees shoes if she were wearing any, were not recovered.
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By the way the more I think about it, the more I think Julie is right. I think George still could possibly be Caylee’s father.George has’nt stepped up and denied that he molest Casey, neither has Lee for that matter. And with all the pointing the finger at George as “possibly” Caylee’s father he has’nt commented on that either. The reason I am going with this theory is that the Defence will use this as “Casey was abused” defence.I think the DP will be taken from the case… sorry if I am simplistic but thats just me.
martha,i havent really fully thought out any defense strategy(and i am not sure i would share it wouldnt want to give anyone ideas,ha as if),i am waiting,blink said she has an article coming soon about what’s going to happen,and kleat reminded us that lyon said her first order will be motions to challenge this being a death penalty case (that should be very interesting)that’s like the defense trying to get the prosecution to show their hand and i feel state has a really good hand they wont mind showing one of their trump cards.(i see in the interviews that yuri saw everything we saw)(and i think someone has or will talk,as these are seemingly somewhat decent kids),i am not sure what maybe in store if casey blames cindy (showdown).i think casey can be broken under the right circumstances.not if she has a chance at blaming cindy or george,does cindy have a work computer? does she punch a timeclock?
Tra, the only problem is, and Blink pointed this out earlier (maybe in this thread so you can find it), that George has never been ‘accused’ therefore, no test was done to exclude him as was done with Lee.
That’s a good point.
1101,i agree, i would like to know ,does anyone know definitivly if there is or is not a chance george is the father of caylee? would certainly make alot of sense, and change this case.
Tra, I just listened to that video you linked in #1098 and see where you get that info and also I see that it seems to be a ‘legitimate’ regular media show, although I have no idea which one, can only see ‘PrimeN…’. But they do name the WDBO (or WBDO) news reporter as ‘Marva Hinton’ (haven’t checked.. that’s a ‘sounds like’ version from me) who said that the recent 700 pages released stated allegations by Casey to a friend, that her fatehr had ‘sexually molested her’. That reporter goes on to say that these allegations were not given a lot of ‘credibility’.
First, where in those 700 pages is there an accusation of ‘sexual molestation’ by George? Nowhere– unless someone can help us out here with a source better than this Marva person on an unknown show. Media ‘can’ get it wrong!
Even so, this reporter admits there is little credibility given to Casey’s account to a friend. (if you check, there is an account of a story about Lee making advances, but no mention in that account, about George– yes, there are suggestions that she and George did not have a great relationship and fought about things but that is not the same.)
Can’t decide that the sexual advances by George are ‘proven’ by this youTube video– have to dig further that this video for sure.
Ok here is my two cents. I found somewhere in here the two my space comments posted
By lee on his my space. I can’t remember where but I think some where in the excellent adventure article or comments. anyway he is ranting on against his ex gf gina who was at one time married to mark hawkins. Then we have casey who is having her flings with mark.what.s that one upsmanship? Then consider lees behavior after casey gets bailed, lee is always driving her to and from baez office, I mean he is all over casey then. Then consider lees strange “cma” message at the caylee memorial? Wth? And he kissed his arm. Was that a cma tat he was kissing? Oogey and creepy. And who is to say it wasn’t consentual? And I still tthink it was lee casey tried to frame first. Revenge. Jelousy and blackmail.
Re 1098- “And if he is why would Casey say he and Lee molested her if there was’nt some truth in it?Casey might be a liar but these are huge allegations.I also watched a video on youtube titled “How to commit the perfect murder” and it states that a wooded area is a good place to get rid of a body.”
Your logic assumes that this girl is not a sociopath. Her actions throughout her life point to her being a sociopath. Huge allegations are less offensive than murdering 2-year-olds. Huge allegations are in line with the allegation that a woman named Zenaida Gonzales, who is non-existent, harmed her, and abducted her daughter.
There is a pattern in Casey’s life. Her childhood friends confirmed it, and her walk through life confirms it. She is a pathological liar. I believe she murdered her daughter. I believe that a pathological liar, who murders children, is quite capable of making up “huge allegations”.
No offense to you, but I think you’re applying the actual circumstance to an unrealistic standard. Society’s standard is clearly not consistent with Casey’s values. I recommend reviewing the statements and emails of her extended family, the Pleseas, as well as statements by her “friends”, including Amy, who Casey defrauded while Caylee was missing. Normal standards don’t apply.
1055 suz,yea i think aboutit being her last hurrah too ,as someone also said ,what was she going to say ,explain to amy?that hung stuffed bear (and cindy goes around handing out bears)did she know she was going down ,the way boo says it too. on a seperate note did you notice the grand water trine?
Lol I knew I would get slammed for having any sympathy for George & Cindy – I know washing the pants was stupid but if indeed she offered the pants to the police and they didnt take them then I am sure she thought well I gave them their chance. I too had my grandson, now 4 yrs old living with my son & his wife in a suite in my house and I babysat a lot, before they moved to Ontario. I couldnt tell you if a month ago I had my grandson or not, who knows maybe I am a candidate for Alzheimers. I really dont know what I would have done if after a big fight with his parents, if they didnt let me see him. Grandparents dont have many rights and if they said my grandson was fine, I would have to take their word on that.I certainly can understand that Cindy really had no choice if Casey wouldnt let her talk to Caylee over that month. There is no proof that Caylee was ever abused and no reason to suspect that casey would murder the child.A big huge liar for sure, but it doesnt sound like anyone could have predicted she would kill Caylee. I remain on the fence still as to how guilty the family is for trying to hide facts that would help convict their daughter. I certainly think the grandparents are stupid and gullible. As for Casey saying brother or father molested her or tried, it is Casey telling that, why would we believe her ?????
comment1107 I am just saying it still is a possibilty. I am aware Casey has been a screw loose for a long time. Her sleeping around proves she did not have a good relationship with her “father” for a start. Her friends have not said anything about the molesting other than what Jesse has stated. But just remember when Casey told jesse about Lee he didnt really want to hear anymore? As he was disgusted. It could be that Casey then stopped saying anymore to Jesse as not to disgust him anymore. Casey was going to marry Jesse, and for all her lies I don’t believe this is one of them.Rather than going on with all the other technical stuff. I just keep it simple and look at what makes more sense to me. The DNA sample taken from Lee was enough to rule him out as the father, thats all. They didnt need to take George’s sample as they got the results they needed from Lee’s.George has never been ruled out as Caylee’s father.And Casey killed Caylee in revenge towards Cindy mainly because of her damn controlling behaviour. And George… well he’s just a gutless wonder.I thought he or Lee would have by now stood up and became the hero in this for Caylee.It’s not going to happen.Also my point earlier was not to say George knew about Casey killing Caylee when she did.But he sure knew when he smelt that car and so did Cindy.George possibly had spoken in the past about crime scenes and said about bodies being hidden in wooded areas that were badly decomposed. making it hard for LE to determine death. Also with Spindy being a nurse she would know all about drugs (Zanny). Anyway just my slant on things. Till someone comes up with a fact that George is’nt Caylee’s father, I am sticking with this theory.
Maura, interesting theory that Amy’s lawyer would be seeking the speedy trial to sort of immunize her. I was thinking maybe it was the prosecution that leaned on Amy to get her to ask for a speedy trial, threatening to charge her with being a drug dealer or something, for whatever reason they want it.
…and thanks to Kleat, too, on your moving-ahead-with-the-fraud-trial theory!
1109 ,cindy was practicing mom, sole provider, casey provided nothing(cept maybe a little babysitting) for caylee,totally different from your son and his wife.
Lemme ask a really, really basic question re: defense strategy. Does the defense have to offer up a specific scenario as to who else might have dunnit, or can they get by just poking holes in the evidence (and trying of course to get some thrown out) and offering up general thoughts about who else would have had the opportunity to do this or that–and saying, ok, THIS piece of evidence doesn’t prove it was definitely kc, THAT action doesn’t prove she’s a murderer, etc., so they can say to the jury, “Listen, are you 100% SURE that the evidence pointed to her and ONLY to her, cuz her life is on the line here.”?
In other words, can they create reasonable doubt without trying to throw some innocent under the bus?
Technically, yes. However, that won’t happen. The State’s burden will be met 100% via the evidence, so presenting “the real killers” would be the only strategy, imo.
B
Boo,
“cma” message at the caylee memorial? Wth? And he kissed his arm. Was that a cma tat he was kissing? Oogey and creepy. And who is to say it wasn’t consentual? And I still tthink it was lee casey tried to frame first. Revenge. Jelousy and blackmail.
Lee was kissing the bracelet with Caylees ashes in it at the memorial.
I also believe that Cindy just got the date wrong due to all the turmoil that was going on at that time. But the June 9th day is also very telling being that it is a Monday. In Cindy’s mind she knew Caylee was last with her on a Sunday due to their vist with her dad and mother. But she also knew that the last time she saw or “heard Caylee and Casey” was the next day. If Casey and Cindy had an argument(and a big one) on Sunday night over money that was taken from Grandma and threats being thrown around, (CINDY DID NOT FORGET THAT DAY, ONLY THE DATE) Cindy knew it was the same day she returned home from seeing her Father and Mother forgetting the fact that it was Fathers Day. Then, she knew that the next day was the last time she saw or heard Casey and Caylee in their bedroom. (Casey’s car would have been in the driveway) Cindy just got the date wrong by a week. I dont think it was on purpose. Through investigation (video or not) it would have come out anyway.
But, CASEY CERTAINLY KNEW THE DATE WAS WRONG. Why, did she not correct that date with LE when she made a statment. Why did she simply go with it. She knew EXACTLY when was the last time she saw CAYLEE ALIVE. “I haven’t seen my daughter in 31 days” June 16th
re: Home vs. Holt
I hear Holt. And if you listen closely, you even hear the “t” at the end. “I think she’s still close to holT”
JMO.
Been reading this site forever, but I have only posted once or twice. I can’t remember the names I’ve used, sorry. But I’ll stick with this one. BTW, you guys ROCK! I love all the info and the different view points I get here. I have been following this case from the start and get my daily obsession fill from here. Very anxiously awaiting part II.
Does anyone know if there is a transcript that exists from Ryan Hoffman? I can not find it anywhere. Surely LE spoke to him.
I can’t help but wonder now that this HOLT vs Home issue has come up again if Kronk didn’t listen to this tape and put 2 and 2 together with the info of the Gonzalez and Zenaida homes on Hopespring thus checking those woods out on his route. Don’t know if meter readers know the customer names or not… but this scenario makes sense to me now as to how he knew where Caylee was or felt he knew. Too much of this case is bizarre and in hindsight I am seeing/hearing clues she left for the family IMO.
I have slid the slider over in the Sentinel release on July 28th and listened dozens of times to it….I still am convinced she is saying Holt on this one. Blink, please take another listen here and chime in… TIA In the tape of her talking to CA it sounded like HOME but not this one.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-casey-anthony-lee-excerpt-mp3,0,4706409.mp3file
Ok, yep, on there I hear Holt
B
To nancyS. Thank u – hadn’t heard that and it has been disturbing me a lot. Thanks again.
I watched “emperors new groove” with my daughter yesterday., KRONK is my favorite.just in case rk reads here too.
Yikes. I posted incorrect information upthread. Casey did not personally tell Nathan that George had abused her; she told Tony and Tony told Nathan. Nathan said he did not know whether the alleged abuse was sexual, physical, verbal, emotional, etc.; however, if Casey specifically told Tony that George had abused her “when she was younger,” then the implication would be that he had sexually abused her.
Nevertheless, I have to wonder about possible miscommunication between Tony and Nathan since Tony has never mentioned in his interviews (that we know of) that Casey ever claimed to have been abused by George. Tony HAS said in his interviews that Casey claimed to have been abused by Lee, something Nathan had never heard about. It seems to me that if Tony told Nathan about Casey’s claims of having been abused by George, he also would have mentioned Casey’s claims of having been abused by Lee. Maybe it’s a George-Lee mix-up between Nathan and Tony.
At any rate, here is the relevant section of the interview with Nathan Lezniewicz (Tony’s roommate) on September 15. JA = John Allen, NA = Nathan Lezniewicz
JA: Has uh, do you recall any conversation, either with Tony or with Casey, indicating that uh, did either of you, uhm, did uh, did Tony ever indicate to you, or did, did uh, Casey ever indicate that uh, Lee had ever tried to sex with her (cellular phone ringing in background)? About anything inappropriate uh….
NL: No sir.
JA: …uh, contact between them?
NL: Uh, I will bring this up. But uhm, as long as uh, uh, uh, if it doesn’t, if, if it doesn’t’ leave this room. It’s kind of some heavy…
JA: Right.
NL: …type of information. Uhm, I do remember Tony expressing to me at one point uhm, and I did ask him again about it the other day just to make sure that I understood him correctly. That Casey at one point had said to him some things about George abusing her. Uhm…
JA: Okay.
NL: …Casey had, had said that to Tony. Tony had relayed that to me that she had said that. And I did ask him about it just again just last week uh, and you know, if that, if that, if I understood him…
JA: Right.
NL: …correctly. And he said yes, Casey did say that father George had abused her uhm, when she was younger.
JA: Physically or sexually?
NL: Uh, that I do not know.
And roy, my kayden loved KRONK best In ENG. Thank you and thank you keith and kiomarie and everyone who tried their best to find baby caylee.
It is my opinion that Casey made up lies about people to keep them apart. That is, she told Jesse that Lee abused her to keep them from becoming friends. As someone else noted on here, when one group of friends got wise to her, she would go to another group. It would always take a while for the new group to figure out that she wasn’t just lying about little things, but that she was a thief, too. If Jesse had become close to Lee (most prospective husbands would try to become friends with the family he is marrying into) Lee could have revealed things to Jesse that would have spoiled the con game. So she makes up a story that disgusts Jesse, and Voila! a wall exists that keeps Jesse from becoming friends with Jesse.
Similarly, I could see Casey leaving dark hints about her family to her new friend Tony, about her father. she wanted him to help her “break into” the shed in the backyard. Why not just call her father and ask when he will be home so she could go borrow them? Well, don’t you see… I’m not comfortable being alone with my Father because…..
Casey was all about keeping her friends apart. Part of that was her narsicism – after all she broke up with Jesse because she accused him of “loving Caylee more than you love me”.
But the other part was to keep her lies from being discovered.
Oops! the above should read ” a wall exists that prevents Jesse from becoming friends with Lee”
Sorry
ItsMeLyn, good point about Kronk. He had apparently worked at some time in the past as a PI, and seeing the names on property listings for his work, could give him a clue to look in a general area.
Why LE or the FBI did not pick up on Lee’s telephone conversation if it is (as it surely seems to be) ‘holt’, is strange. Because if they did listen carefully to what Casey said to Lee, they would have heard it sooner than later.
Question now is, (going to Cindy’s theory that whoever heard Casey say ‘close to home’ to Cindy on July 25th as per Casey’s comment to Lee in the 26th phone call), who would have clued in to the ‘holt/H.O.L.T.’ as Hidden Oaks ‘LemenTary’, if not someone who happened to know that’s what locals or students called the school. It’s not HIES. (I’d have never known, someone from NYC, Miami, South Carolina and all the places ZG was from or rooted-in, would also not know what HOLT referred to, or only listened to the Cindy-Casey video version. And placement would be a BIG coincidence.
Casey would also know how Lee would figure the Z and G clues, that is quite a perfect ‘T’ along the joint property line to the ‘dot’ on the map where Caylee’s body was found. And Casey did, through Baez reading her statement, say she wanted to visit Caylee’s grave, so knowing exactly where to find Caylee’s grave in the future was important to her.
Could Dominic Casey have used this ‘T’ as a guide to figure out where the body would be on his own? Maybe– so would still need the ‘psychic’ cover for his actions. EXCEPT, Cindy told LE at the house that she sent men to walk those woods. (to prove no body there, or to find it and keep it secret by ‘ignoring’ the find)
I don’t believe Casey was sexually abused by either George or Lee. Casey has a history of making up stories about some people when she is trying to manipulate other people.
She made up the story of George stroke on Friday, June 13 when she wanted to get out of driving Amy to Jacksonville on that day. Luckily, George on had a mini-stroke, so Casey was still able to go to Fusian that night.
Casey told Tony, Nathan, and Cameron that William Waters is gay. She knew that wasn’t true (in fact, she knew William Waters was besotted with her), but she was stringing Will along and didn’t want Tony or his roommates to get suspicious since she was always sending Will text messages or talking to him on the phone while she was in Tony’s apartment when the others were around. By telling them Will was gay, she would have been able to flirt with Will quite openly.
Casey is a predator, and IMO, if either Lee or George had sexually abused her, she would have been extorting money from the guilty party under threat of involving the authorities or making the information public. I can’t imagine that Casey would ever have put up with any criticism from family if she had something as vile as sexual abuse by her father or brother to exploit.
What I do believe is that Casey concocted the stories of abuse to help her manipulate Jesse in September 2005 and Tony in June/July 2008.
Casey got pregnant with Caylee around the end of November 2004, and she has told multiple contradictory stories since then regarding Caylee’s paternity. It’s my own opinion that Casey went out nightclubbing on Thanksgiving weekend, got drunk, shagged a stranger in the parking lot, and found herself pregnant a month or so later and had no idea how to contact her child’s father because she had either forgotten his last name or never got it to begin with.
She hooked up with Jesse at the end of January 2005 for a couple of weeks. During their brief early relationship, they had sex, but according to Richard Grund, Casey became so clingy, so quickly, that Jesse got spooked and broke it off. For the next five months, Casey denied being pregnant and even told Cindy she was a virgin. When she finally admitted to the pregnancy in early July 2005, she claimed Jesse Grund was the father of her child and informed him of his impending fatherhood via text message.
I believe Casey knew she was pregnant before she had sex with Jesse in late January 2005 and that she had targeted him to take the fall for her pregnancy. All the shrinks commenting on this case have said Casey is a master manipulator who is able to size people up very quickly, and IMO she picked Jesse because his traditional male self-identity (strong, protective, providing, counseling, etc.) made him a good candidate for child support and child-rearing assistance if not husband.
According to Jesse, Casey was furious that Jesse refused to allow his name to be placed on the birth certificate when Caylee was born on August 9, 2005 because he wanted a paternity test. From discovery, we know that the paternity test wasn’t taken until Caylee was about 10 weeks old, so the test was taken in October 2005.
In an interview with OCSO, Jesse said that in September 2005, Casey had claimed that Lee had attempted to have sex with her:
“Uh, September of 2005 Casey told me that she didn’t feel comfortable with Lee being around Caylee. When I asked why she said that uhm, Cas…Cay…uhm, recently she wouldn’t expand upon recently. I assumed it was before Caylee was born. Uhm, Casey uh, and Lee were at the house alone together and Casey, and Lee attempted to have sex with her.” (Jesse Grund, September 8, Page 4)
We also know from discovery that in the ten weeks between Caylee’s birth and Jesse’s paternity test that Jesse bonded with Caylee. Casey certainly was aware of Jesse’s love for Caylee and was no doubt concerned about Jesse’s reaction to learning that Casey lied about Caylee’s paternity. IMO, she told Jesse about Lee’s alleged sexual depredations a month before the paternity test to trigger Jesse’s strong protective instincts so that his desire to keep Caylee safe would override his anger or disappointment upon learning that Caylee was not his daughter.
IMO Casey was similarly trying to trigger Tony’s protective instincts when she told him that Lee had touched her inappropriately when she was in middle school and that Cindy had not believed her:
“[Casey] also informed [Tony] that during the time frame that she was in middle school, she recalled that her brother, Lee Anthony, had visited her in her bedroom. She reported to Anthony Lazzaro that she had caught her brother touching her and she reported the incident to her mother. According to Anthony Lazzaro, Casey Anthony seemed upset that her mother did not believe her.” (Corporal Eric Edwards’s supplemental report dated November 5, released November 26, page 26)
I would say it’s almost a certainty that Casey made that claim between June 16 and July 15. Caylee was dead, and Casey could not go home without her. She needed a place to stay full-time and wanted to stay with Tony. Tony was in a three-bedroom apartment that he shared with Nathan and Cameron. Clint House had also been living at the apartment (sleeping on the couch) for a couple of months, but Tony and Cameron told Clint in mid-June that they wanted him to leave (Clint moved out on July 1).
Casey may have been concerned that she also would be asked to leave if she moved herself in full-time (which is what she wanted to do). To hinder that from happening, she spoiled them by doing all the cooking, all the cleaning, and all the laundry for Tony, Nathan, and Cameron so that they wouldn’t want her to leave.
However, she was likely concerned that her extended separation from Caylee would raise suspicions. She had told Tony and his roommates that George and Cindy were having problems and their arguments made the Anthony home a poor environment for Caylee. Casey claimed that Zanny had enough room for Caylee but not for Casey as well, and all were in agreement that Tony’s apartment would be a poor environment for a toddler.
But Casey had probably, prior to Caylee’s death, told Tony that her brother Lee lived in a house with only one roommate. So to preempt any suggestion that she and Caylee could be together in a good environment if they moved in with Lee, Casey told Tony that Lee was a sexual pervert with incestuous desires.
That’s how I see it. Other witnesses who have known Casey for years discussed her often contentious relationship with per parents, but none of Casey’s other old or new friends so much as hinted at sexual abuse in the Anthony household. The two witnesses who have mentioned Casey’s claims of sexual abuse by Lee were both males Casey needed to manipulate for a very specific purpose, and relative to that purpose, the abuse claims were strategic and tailor-made for the situation.
Nor do I, never did
B
Maura, thanks for the info re: George. I’m not keeping notes here– and the volume of info we get while not being ‘tasked’ to pay attention at that level, its easy to not link things. Especially since many early interviews were released before we know what we know now. So much better to review now as we recognize so much more in what people have stated and how it relates to other statements or facts.
Blink clearing some of the ‘media mud’ for us, as with this article (anyone remember the last Blink article???
where Blink clears up the laundry bag issue and so many other ‘bigger media’-misses.
Kleat, any chance I can get you to split obsessions and review the Ocasio case on here?
B
re: george as father of caylee,you would think that if they tested lee they would test george. hypothectically, if tested and results showed george as father,do you think the death penalty would be on?imo i think the death penalty could easily be taken off the table,by lyon,imo the prosecution would want a deal,or what slverspnr? so it doesnt appear the prosecution is leaning that way?if hypothectically george were the father the defense would definately want this known,so they would make sure there was a test,(if le didnt )and they would have to present the results as discovery as late as when?slvrspnr.
George is not the Father. If he were they would know. They have his Dna, they have Cindy’s and they have Casey’s. There is a zero percent chance that they would go through the trouble of testing Lee and leave that to chance. I love my dearest Blinkers, but guys, this horse is dead and buried. There is not evidence whatsoever that there was an sex abuse in that house so I gotta say, I dont want that chatter on this site. You will find it on rare occasions will I ever say that, but it would be irresponsible of me to let it continue given there is not a single source of corroberation to such a statement.
K?
TIA, B
Did CA offer the pants to LE before or after she had washed them? Not clear on this.
As far as Casey being abused… it’s kind of tough to picture her in the victim’s role… I have a feeling she’s been holding the power in that family for a long time… JMO
The way that she lies (“crazy lying,” lying even when there is no reason to lie- I think personally that these people prefer to lie because it puts them in control of reality, in their own mind. As long as they are spinning it, they are in the driver’s seat. If reality is happening to them, then they are powerless- and these people are control freaks) anyway, the way she lies makes it really impossible to know where any bits of truth may lie in the midst of it all and if there could be any truth to the abuse accusations. I had a friend in HS who was this kind of a liar and she had convinced me at one point that her father was physically abusive to her. In time it became clear that was a complete fabrication. BTW, very similar dynamics there; the parents enabling, and so on.
re: george as father of caylee,you would think that if they tested lee they would test george. hypothectically, if tested and results showed george as father,do you think the death penalty would be on?imo i think the death penalty could easily be taken off the table,by lyon,imo the prosecution would want a deal,or what silverspnr? so it doesnt appear the prosecution is leaning that way?if, hypothectically, george were the father ,the defense would definately want this known,so they would make sure there was a test,(if le didnt )and they would have to present the results as discovery as late as when?silverspnr?
Maura #1127: yes, this rings true to me also.
maura # 1127
I agree with blue willow this also rings very loud and clear to me.
Blink, before I ‘split’ obsessions, here’s one more little thing. You said that the transcripts from LE can be redacted. The deleted parts were not ‘blacked out’ so that deletion is not obvious to the defense (or to us), except where there is private information being blacked out.
If transcripts are redacted, so too would be the audio versions. Should we assume that the jail videos between Casey and her family are also not ‘redacted’?? No– I think not. (not talking the transmission blips/errors on the internet streaming that can occur intermittantly)
Here is something to look at, to listen closely…
July 25th ‘afternoon’ (part 2 of 2– review the first 3 minutes approx. until George hands the receiver back to Cindy. Around the 2 minute mark to 2 1/2 minutes.
George says to Casey that “I wish you could’a came to me sooner” (of course we know that Casey never did ‘came’ to anyone ever– she was forced home).
Casey then starts to open up, saying “I wish I could have come to anyone sooner’ (paraphrasing)– and that she wished she could have said something… then says she wished she could have ‘hugged’.
At this point, start to listen closely– there is something missing here– I think there is a ‘hole’ (aka redaction). It is very neatly done. It takes a bit of reviewing, listening only, watching and listening…
Casey says “…. or at least spend a moment with you the day [redaction??... ]…”
There is something cut out here– it’s a good cut, there are words crunched in the ‘background’ but probably don’t make sense– it’s a neat cut.
Anyone out there, audio specialists, editors? Careful listeners? And of course, Blink?
(sorry Blink….
Yes, they can, thats my point, it is not gospel and alot of folks are hanging their hats it is.
B
#1127 maura. I see your poiint. I myself am thinking that perhaps casey lusted after lee. He is cindys favorite and I would not put it past casey to go after him. She manipulates the men in her life. What I don’t understand is why the anthonys would cover for this chick if not out of fear or guilt. What did casey have on them that would cause both cindy and lee to deny caylee a proper burial when she was due one as soon as possible. Why? I don’t understand. What was caseys message to the family ” gee mom always loved lee and caylee best”?
(and the time into this video of the possible redaction of the audio portion is at 2:29 to 2:31 minutes)
Wow Maura. I’ve been reading here for a long time but never posted. I have to say that your posts are incredibly well thought out and helpful. Your ability to take multiple sources of information and put them into context and timeframe is so helpful. You’re good at this. Thanks, and thanks to Blink for hosting such a professional forum.
Look at what casey did to jg. That fits caseys profile. I see where baez is going with his strategy.but did the anthonys have to play along? To get this monster off so she can prey on them and others some more? I can see it won’t work but why put in the effort?
Agree, Blink, it seems obvious from that ‘cut’ I noticed. I think that the ‘crunched’ (lost in low volume or mix as the edit happens) sounds like ‘… that you…’
We can only speculate how Casey finishes this sentence (if ‘that you’ follows what is clearly heard):
“…. or at least spend a moment with you the day that you …[ DELETION ]…”
Comment 1134 by Kleat — July 11, 2009 @ 12:15 pm
Kleat –
She said she wished she could have “at least spent a moment with you the day of the hearing.” She was referring to her bond hearing on June 22, three days earlier.
Blink, sorry if this is a stupid question, but the redactions are only in the publicly released version, correct? That is, the defense gets the unedited version.
And didn’t you explain earlier that redactions are made when the information is particularly damning?
Defense is unedited yes, however, depending on how the evidence comes in, in some cases the defense does not get it in the discovery process. This is actually a short answer to a very broad exclusionary rule.
B
Is Blink saying that only the info released under the Sunshine Law can be redacted, or that the info released to the DEFENSE can also be redacted? I thought for some reason the defense got a heads up on all evidence, like when Blink sez Baez knows that they have found two laten partial prints on the duct tape (which I am sure the defense will be happy to explain away—”This tape came from the duct tape roll that kc made her duct tape dress out of, and that’s how her prints got on those end pieces. Obviously, when Zanny came back to Hopespring with her house key to change kc’s password to timer 55, she stole the duct tape…” or some such nonsense).
Does the defense team get a heads up on all evidence against their client, or no?
I am thinking they must get advanced notice because they need to be able to argue that thus and such is inadmissable for reasons XYZ.
boo
who is JG??
Per Post 1134
Kleat, July 25th Part 2 of 2
I hear Casey say …
Hugged you (pause) or at least spent a moment with you the day of the hearing.
1143 chica. Hi chica I’m referring to jesse grund
Maura, thanks. That makes sense as in the interview room, the day Casey was arrested for murder, she talked about her dad and that she didn’t have a chance to see him before the hearing, IIRC.
But how did you know this? Wasn’t on the video version that I saw.
chica, JG = Jesse Grund
I am not boo , but I’ll answer your question for you. “JG” is Jesse G.
BTW , this is an awesome site…several of my friends suggested I check it out , and I am glad I did. You guys are on the ball!
JG is jesse grund
chica JG is Jesse Grund