Caylee/Casey Anthony Case: Caylees Autopsy Revelations Part I
Orlando, FL– Under heavy objection last Friday afternoon, Judge Stan Strickland denied the motion on behalf of George and Cindy Anthony to seal Caylee Marie Anthonys autopsy until their daughter Caseys capital murder trial in their granddaughters death. Late Friday afternoon, the Findings of Dr. Jan Garavaglia, Chief Medical Examiner of Orange County were released. In Part I, we explore a few of the notable findings, In Development for Part II, Blinkoncrime will be is creating an interactive 3D Model, incorporating the evidence recovery field, bone disbursement pattern, and anatomical example of the duct tape placement.
The Laundry Bag
Although the report contains a significant amount of anthropologic and forensic data, it does not contain photos or X-Rays, pursuant to the Earnhardt exclusion under Florida Law. Blinkoncrime.com will attempt to offer some observations and in some cases, correct some erroneous information that is being reported in the msm. For starters, the laundry bag picture being circulated, it is incorrect, the image to the left is the correct bag, note the dimensions are exact. The top of this bag does not cinch.
The Duct Tape
I have seen rampant speculation on the duct tape beginning around 15 minutes following the release of the report. 
There are many who believe that Casey Anthony killed her child by wrapping her nose and mouth with duct tape. Allow me to point out the report actually reflects the antithesis of this theory. First, there IS NO TAPE ON THE POSTERIOR of her skull. The only posterior placement of the tape mentioned is still located on the mandible, or face. The tape, which was actually small strips of grey cloth-based, delaminating tape is applied on top of itself, not really feasible with a live toddler. Given the findings that Caylee’s mandible stayed in almost true anatomical position, although slightly posterior and that the hair that was attached to the tape extended from the back of her head and over her head and face, it is likely Caylee was laying on her back when the tape was applied. Henkel makes 2 kinds of duct tape, one is more Industrial grade of adhesive “hot set” over cloth designed for waterproof and outdoor projects. It has not yet been disclosed which formulation was used.
The O Sign
A contributing poster at blinkoncrime gave me something to think about that had not occurred to me. I am on record stating I do believe that Casey Anthony murdered her daughter, and that she will end up pointing the finger at one or both of her parents as a defense strategy.
However, the duct tape never really fit for me. I have always believed it to be a post mortem tactic to stage a kidnapping. I do believe I may have been wrong. Very well known to medical and critical care professionals, there is something called an O effect; occurring at very near death, or shortly following death and before rigormortis sets in.
Some medical people refer to it when the person is very near death or has just died–the jaw drops open. Nothing left to hold the mandible shut. In morgue kits there is a strap that is applied around the jaw to gently close it before rigor sets in. This “O” sign can be very pronounced and unsettling to see first hand. Casey probably wasn’t aware of this and was really spooked by this silent scream and used the duct tape then put a heart sticker on it as a ________
This makes sense to me. The tape is applied in small strips across the nose and mouth areas, catching her hair in the face over the Coronal plane region. One interpretation that may be drawn is that Caylee was lying on her back, upon seeing what Casey had done to her child as evidenced by the relaxed mandible; she attempted to “fix her”. As if covering up the evidence of death on her baby would change things, complete with a heart sticker. No sooner did I arrive at this conclusion on Saturday, did I see Dr.Michael Baden appear on Geraldo Live on Sunday evening bringing up the mortuary kit issue. I am not saying this idea originated here, not that it would be the first time, but it at least tells me there is corroboration within the forensic Medical community as to the premise. The FBI report on the duct tape has not been released. One thing is certain, what I have been stating all along about Casey’s prints being on the duct tape seems foreboding. With multiple strips of tape, chances are there are several. The defense has had this report for months, is this why Casey Anthony retained Todd Macaluso?
Swim Diaper?
There are several remnants recovered that are described as a diaper or pull ip item. However, there are a few that appear to be strictly synthetic. When I read the report, my immediate reaction based on some of the coloring was that it was a “swimmie”, or disposable swim diaper. After mapping out the dimensions and a closer look, I believe it is actually referring to remnants of both a pull up, a reusable swim diaper, or swim floation/assistance device or both, as pictured here:
Paper Towels
Simply stated there is decomposition fluid on paper towels in the plastic garbage bag found in her trunk that came from Tony Lazzarros apartment.
In my opinion, Casey ripped the bag Caylees remains were in when she moved her body into or out of the trunk to her final resting place in the woods off Suburban. The stain in the trunk, emitting the ungodly stench, was the target of the paper towels after Casey returned to TonE’s apartment. She brought the paper towels and garbage bag out with her in an attempt to clean it up and realized almost immediately it was an excerise in futility. Immediately following are her comments to Amy about George Anthony borrowing her car, and the infamous squirrel stowaway story.
Her Clothes
In contrast to only a stitching remnant with a manufactures tag left of her shirt, Caylees shorts were found nearly 2 ft ft away from the laundry bag, in relatively good condition. Based on the reports findings of trunk and femural animal activity and the corresponding recovery area, I am of the opinion that it is not possible that Caylee was wearing those shorts when she was dumped in the woods. Frankly, given the fact that the actual color stripe pattern was discernable versus the condition of the other items, I am suspect Casey was in those woods more than once. How do you get only the collar of a shirt remaining and her shorts completely intact with no noted damage? Lastly, Caylees shoes if she were wearing any, were not recovered.
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Suz Post# 1353 I didn’t mean they were afraid of Casey’s rage physically LOL. They handled her with kid gloves trying to get info from her and with out giving anyone too much information. I think they were afraid if they tore into her and she flew into a rage they wouldn’t get any info at all. As it turns out it doesn’t matter either way because the only information she gave has been all lies..
They know what their daughter has done (who couldn’t be able to tell she is a liar from the taped chats and interviews..? Her BS explanations and her nervous chuckles.. Her nonchalant way of asking Lee how he is doing like it is just another day..) They know their granddaughter is gone because of their daughter and they are spinning out of control with changing their stories and defending their daughter.
I think they believe they are smarter then what they actually are and they should have backed down and let justice do it’s job a long time ago..
Blink or someone please help me here….this is my second request. What exactly happened on July 3rd. After Blink brought that up I have souring and rereading and I just can not “get it”. Blink if I remember correctly you said this day is very key to this. what went on in the yard on the 3rd that raised the red flags for GA and CA?
Cindee, we dont know EXACTLY, I am speculating based on the evidence and call and text occurances in this case.
B
#1395 susaan. Its my belief that on the 8/14 jh visit that casey was going to tell george the truth. Cindy stopped that from happening, baez stopped the visits after that.
So C&G already knew that she wasn’t–as she claimed to be–in Jacksonville, with “Jeff Hopkins”. And yet CINDY kept “reporting” to her co-workers, to her own mother that Casey-is-in-Jacksonville story. Think about the implications of that for a minute. Cindy, who didn’t talk about family problems at work BEFORE Caylee “went missing”, is not only now openly discussing MAJOR family problems at the office, she is PURPOSEFULLY feeding her co-workers the Jacksonville story.
If you can bare to listen to her headache-inducing OSCO interview again, you’ll see obvious (attempts at) deception, and I am referring specifically to where she says Casey was that last week of June/the first week of July, and on from there.
She knew, all along, that Casey could be found LOCALLY if she wanted to find her. Had to have known. It took her one phone call to get to Casey, and that call was not to any Jeff Hopkins– or for directory assistance to Jacksonville. Remember. She claims she found Amy’s number on JULY 15, “on a piece of paper” in the car under Casey’s “purse”. HUH??? Notice–she didn’t claim she got it from one of Amy’s resumes in Casey’s “WORK BAG”. (You remember, right?? “Casey’s WORK bag”???? Her unemployed, “NO MONEY, NO FUTURE” thieving, lying, unfit mother of a daughter’s “WORK BAG”. Right, Cindy).
Amy’s number was stored on Casey’s cell phone, and had been for months by that time, so what “piece of paper” is Cindy trying to claim that cell phone number was on in the car? And remember, we are meant to believe that she was just first learning, on JULY 15th, that Casey hadn’t been IN that car since, at the very least, JUNE 30th.
I think she actually realized this gross error, and made an attempt to cover it up during that same phone call where the “menus”/grocery lists came up. In fact, I think a whole string of items she “questions” Casey about in that phone call were very, very purposeful. They KNEW that LE would be listening. Cindy was on a mission that day.
Just before the “menu” thing, she asks Casey about a piece of paper with Amy’s flight info on it in Casey’s handwriting. She wants to create the impression that she found this in Casey’s car, under Casey’s “purse”, which would be how she knew to call Amy (someone she had never met before, etc). But here is the problem with that. Casey DIDN’T HAVE AMY’S FLIGHT INFO YET at the time she ditched the car at Amscot.
If Casey had that flight info written on a piece of paper at any point in time, she had to have had it in AMY’S CAR, not her already-impounded Pontiac.
If you look at Amy’s interview with OSCO, you will see that she actually mentions Cindy having just called HER about this mysterious piece of paper,i.e. after Casey was arrested and just before Amy was to give an interview (and what? not the day the two of them were alone in the car heading to Tony’s to FINALLY, FINALLY go get Casey???)
The other item that stands out from that phone call is the mention of Jeff Hopkins. By that time, Cindy would have known that LE had spoken with the REAL Jeff Hopkins, and that LE had discovered that this “OTHER JEFF HOPKINS” (alleged father of the non-existent child, Zach/alleged person who could vouch for the existence of the non-existent Zanny) DID NOT EXIST EITHER.
She asks Casey about her Tiffany ring: “Who gave that to you??”
Casey says she got that ring from “Jeff”.
“Yeah,” Cindy says, “Ummm.. we can’t find Jeff.”
An then she just allows Casey to give some feeble nonsense to the effect of Lee is looking into things, and drops it (LIKE A HOT POTATO)
So much more on that, but this post is getting long.
My final piece of 2 cents this fine morning:
Thanks for the link, Maura. The grass is, indeed, different in Florida. It is TOUGH STUFF. Has to be to survive the sun.
So what did Cindy mean, “We KILLED all that grass”???
Dondura, Johnson’s is only open for 1 minute~~!!
So, they are open from noon to midnight…
I wonder what work shift was George on with his new job? (he couldn’t get to the post office on Monday because he was starting a new job, so he had to go Tuesday). That could mean he swung by Johnson’s on the way home from work, anytime up to midnight.
Maura, interesting observation. If it turns out that Casey was watching the car during its Amscot stay, she might have wanted to know where it was after it was towed. Once it was in the lot, and not ‘stolen’, she might not have gone with the ‘parents rent me a car’ idea as she would have to know they would get a notice. Being in a rental arranged and paid by parents, would attach her more to her parents and ‘responsibility’– and a baby car seat, she would have to explain ‘no seat’.
And go to Jacksonville to rent it.
Notification procedure for Registered letter in Orlando Florida????
Does anyone know what exactly is mailed/sent out?
I personally have received two notifications for a registered letter in the form of a POSTCARD which was placed in with my regular mail, no useful information x off on the postcard for me to know what the contents would be, just stating a signature was required with the post office address stamped on it.
I received notifications in the States of NY and NH.
When I read how the Anthony’s were notified I just assumed FL. laws were different, and a registered letter was sent out separately from regular mail, similar to a private company like Fed-ex or UPS.
http://www.wftv.com/news/20079504/detail.html
Bozo’s at it again! ‘Cept I don’t think he’ll get the ruling on this that he’s wanting to hear!!! It is really an injustice for Amy if they intend to wait on the murder trial to go first. That just seems really unfair to her…..to me anyways!
One question please. I know you are very busy Blink and I can only access this stuff at certain points in the day. Could someone please tell me what the speculation is regarding July 3rd, if anyone has time. Just a quick theory. I just don’t get it. Sorry.
Would it be too far fetched to think maybe the certified letter notice was actually put in the mailbox and whoever found it in the mailbox decided to stick it in the door to stall time?
Interesting catch Scarlett on the registered letter. I live in Orlando and any registered letter notification has ALWAYS been put in the mail box with the regular mail.
kleat,i grew up in the south and yes my dad burned our grass,i forget how he did it,chems,it can be done with salt,thats how frats do it with words,pransters would use salt to write in grass too,my dad did it for seasonal reasons,to replant new grass(sods),gardening junkie,we thought it was weird, friends too(what happened to your grass)no one else did it,(but major landscapes jobs do),did someone mention george used lime,i’ll ask my dad.
Sorry, forgot to add to my 1408 post …
If the State can prove a Postcard was sent to the Anthony’s through regular mail, and nothing was left on there door to find … I think they could pretty much discredit anything that they said or done after this fact. This would be a major, blatant lie both George and Cindy conspired to and would not be able to get out of. They stuck to this STORY like glue, it was one of the few stories they agreed upon almost word for word.
Continuing on my comment about registered mail being put in the mailbox with the regular mail, I believe the post office carrier is required to put it there –it is the legal U.S. mail receptacle. So, unless the tow company sent the letter by another means like Fedex (why would they?)it had to be in the mailbox.
That said, any other service that wants the owner to find/respond timely usually puts the notice on the garage door so it will be noticed quickly (it’s illegal to put in the mailbox) and because the vast majority of people go into their home through the garage door, not the front door.
To Kleat comment 1405
GA says in his 7/31 interview that on 7/14 he got called into work earlier and unexpected (mentions a meeting and other stuff) so he couldn’t get to the post office until 7/15.
GA mentions to the detectives that on 7/15 he had to be at work at 2 pm
On 7/15 GA says he got up at 11 and CA had already left for work. He drives to the local Amscot to pay his elec bill and he think his cell bill too. After paying the bill or bills he goes on to the PO to pick up the certified letter. he rambles on about how he told the lady at the PO that he wants to see who the letter is from before he signs for it. He says the lady brings it up and it says Johnsons recovery service and that it has G&C name on it. He talks of opening the letter and it saying the vehicle was towed 6/30 from the corner of Goldenrod(sp) and Colonel(sp). He says he called CA and said “Guess what KC wasnt in J-VILLE , her car has been towed 6/30 and its down on Naricossee “(sp) He says he told CA he was going to the towyard and he would call her and let her know what was going on.
Q1395 susann. I did get my theory about the bag with the stuffed animals found by cindy in the by on 7/3 from the kw articles. Someone gave kw seemingly very specific.information about that bag.and if it was found in the by it pointed the family “buried pets” to the HOLT. Also that lee likes to talk. “Loose lips sink ships” I also think blinks kw articles indicate that since kw did not disclose to george that he showed the bag he found to cindy this seems to indicate keith met with george prior to 8/18. And then there is that mention of kw and george running into each other at amscot.hmmmm. Orlando is such a small town it seems.
kleat
hope this helps
Grow Plugs Seed Starting Kit
To somewhat clear up the ‘notification’ letter from the tow yard.
Although semantics, it would be a certified letter, not registered. (There is a difference, and a difference in how they are individually handled by the PO). Certified is for legal notifications etc. (Registered letters usually involve an item of monetary value being sent within the actual package or envelope).
The letter carrier is supposed to try and deliver it to the door and obtain a signature. They leave the notice when they can’t.
There will also (or should be) an electronic record of when the Anthony’s actually signed for it and picked it up. It is scanned electronically. LE could get this easily if they wanted it. A barcode is attached to the notice the Anthony’s would sign, and it links to the certified letter label.
Also, the time the PO opens may be irrelevant. Most of them have lobby doors with a bell, and many people pick up items during hours when the window is closed (most offices allow this, some (fewer) do not).
Employees are almost always working behind the scenes to process mail before and after regular window hours.
Also, one quick phone call can also ususally garner information from a postal clerk regarding the return address of a certified letter.
If the Anthony’s mailbox is at the door, (I see a box on the right of the door, but think it may be the doorbell mechanism, it’s kind of high up for a mailbox)the notice would be left at the door. If it’s a curb box, it would normally be left at the street with the rest of the mail in the box. They don’t have a curb box, so it could also be clustered in a unit with all the neighbors boxes (common in FL). In that case, the notice could have either been left at the door, or in the box with their mail.
A letter carrier will usually (and likely should), leave the notice with the regular mail so it is ‘seen’. But leaving it on the door would not be unheard of (laziness).
I was fascinated by the back and forth over whether Casey was intending to abandon the car and / or frame someone. Really great comments from all on that I thought.
FWIW, I am leainng towards Maura’s theory she was intending to go back and get it (TL was going away, she had his jeep and could try to clean it up more during the coming week). She set everyone up for the ‘smell’.
I think it’s a safe assumption she was already trying to clean it up as evidenced by the paper towels with adipocere (grave wax) being in the trunk from when it was towed.
This is such clinching evidence to me. It also makes me wonder how long the Anthony’s knew about this particular evidence before it was publicly released? It’s one thing to try and be in denial over a ‘smell’ and a pizza box in the trunk (still a stretch with both Cindy and George’s backgrounds). And even the Oak Ridge lab findings as to air testing perhaps, and the dogs hitting on the car. I find all of that compelling, but still perhaps deniable to a grieving family who does not want to accept. BUT– It’s an entirely different matter if you have paper towels with grave wax on them in the trunk. How soon did George and Cindy know this???? Perhaps while they were still out proclaiming a ‘live’ Caylee needed to be found near the end of the summer and on into fall. I think so. The decomp fluids came back fairly quickly, I’d guess they knew about the apodicere as well. To me, that speaks volumes if it’s the case.
silverspoon—your side comments, yep, yelp, help etc were sooooo funny!!!! i enjoy all your great info and thoughts
susanm—–#1894 i am in total agreement with the way you are thinking. until you had mentioned “you might embarass yourself with a comment—i had never thought that cindy buried caylee in the backyard. i really think that cindy and casey were in this from the get go. and the surprise that they were hiding from george was caylee in the backyard and then casey moving her—good way to put it replacing Caylee with the bag of toys like a teen stuffing a bed to sneak out. i can see Casey thinking along those lines as her maturity was certainly arrested by parents. and i can see Cindy, even though she loved Caylee, enabling Casey again regardless of the consequences, especially if they were fighting and CAylee got in the way. WE are always hearing testimony from Cindy, George, lee, and CAsey doing something and having a timeline. but why should we believe any of it. and why should we use their say so to build what happened.
so, i am with this idea of yours. also i was thinking of Burying as in digging dirt up but it could be the playhouse or the toy box with a lid.
yea, boo, the only thing missing from yuri&co was the female persuasion,georgette/georgina is trying to fill the role in these visits
susanm, thanks. Lawn here is burnt to a crisp right now too and it’s nowhere near the south! In this condition, driving on it will do damage certainly. Blink’s observation of LE driving onto the lawn and plugs being put in the next day, shows that they probably want ‘perfect’ landscaping, or why do that when so much else is happening– like a baby who needs to be found. (that’s after the 31 day window of course)
Cindy mentions to FBI, that she offered to the LE investigators to go look in the yard, because she was absolutely confident that nothing was there. Why? Because they had just done the yardwork on JUly 4th– a day that they would have preferred (planned/hoped) to take Caylee to some July 4th celebrations, not do major yard work. They knew every inch of that back yard, according to Cindy, and ‘recently’ too, in order to make that statement.
I realize that one anecdotal story does not necessarily add up to strong evidence, but I think that the story Cindy told during her interrogation about “Jesse’s Temper” is revealing about how Cindy looks at Casey’s actions.
When asked to explain how she knew Jesse had a “bad temper” she told of an incident when she came home and found them in Casey’s bedroom (where the baby was sleeping) and Jesse and Casey had fallen asleep on her bed watching television. (both of them fully clothed). this was against Cindy’s house rules and although they were adults and Jesse was supposed to be Caylee’s father (in other words, the horse was out of the barn) CINDY calls JESSE out of the room and begins to berate him for breaking the rules. Supposedly Jesse then gets mad at her back and this reveals his temper.
But my observation is this – Why did she yell at Jesse? This was Casey’s house, Casey was in the room, and Casey should have been the one to remind Jesse they couldn’t sit on her bed if that was the rule. Why did Cindy not call Casey out of the room and yell at her?
IMO this incident illustrates Cindy’s immediate reaction to anything Casey does is to blame someone else for “leading her astray” .. I would be willing to bet that Casey learned early on to shift blame when she did something wrong and her MOM was always willing to excuse her and accuse someone else.
I also agree with an earlier poster (sorry, I can’t remember how far back) that when Cindy interrogates Casey, she tends to ask leading questions. All Casey has to do is listen for a while and she will pick up clues from her Mom’s questions about what kind of story she will swallow.
For instance, during that whole elaborate story about Zenaida’s accident, Cindy reports that Casey tells her they took Zanny to the hospital. CASEY doesn’t say which hospital, but when Cindy asks “Was it hospital x or hospital y?” Casey picks one and runs with it.
I don’t think cindy realizes she is doing this.
I also tend to believe that Cindy has what I would call a “Clan” mentality about the immediate family. They can argue, bicker, steal from one another, lie and cheat each other, but it doesn’t go outside the family. And when the clan is attacked, it’s circle the wagons time. I think that Cindy’s idea of familial love is to ALWAYS support family no matter what, and her idea of love and support includes not requiring the “loved” one to be held accountable.
Remember her bizarre comment that Believing in Casey was like Believing in God? At least, I found this comment bizarre. I think it reveals that Cindy defines faith as something you believe REGARDLESS of the evidence, instead of something you believe because of the evidence. In other words, to Cindy, to Believe something makes it true.
I cannot listen to her 911 call and not believe she was truly panicked. I don’t think Cindy was in on the death of Caylee and I think she covers for her because to this day she WILL NOT LET HERSELF believe the evidence.
Sosad 1412
Thank You!
I can’t imagine at this point the State not finding this out, but if it is a minor detail that they are overlooking … WOW
Blink will let them know.
Riddlemethis, you wrote: “Also, one quick phone call can also ususally garner information from a postal clerk regarding the return address of a certified letter.”
Good point… thanks for the info surrounding legal type notices through certified mail and the PO options.
Calling the PO (would ex-cop knowing something is not right with the ongoing BS from Casey think of this????) opens up a wide timeline for the Anthony’s to have called Johnson’s for info– or better yet, leaving no record, to swing by in person. George could do that and no record would be there– he might have been able to view that holding lot with the car because there had to be some alleyway for the garbage truck to access the dumpster, and “IF” IRC, the garbage bag from the trunk was tossed over the fence into the dumpster (but have to check memory on that as per interview).
When is it likely that the Anthony’s learned of the notice, if not when they said? Maybe a little timeline for that is in order to narrow that possibility and then see what makes sense.
If you are not going to be posting any updates to this case soon, can you at least just post a blank update so the comments section can start over and not be so large? I read from my Blackberry alot and with 1,400+ comments this site takes FOREVER to load.
Also, are you going to cover the Billings murders in Pensacola?
Hmm, had not thought of that. Let me see what I can do :0
No, I believe LE has that case sen up tight.
B
BTW, all motions along with attachments files by Baez are posted on WFTV.com
Let’s let Simon Burch (SB) explain the notification process:
SB: So uh, uhm, she wanted to know why the bill was so expensive and why it took eleven days to notify her that we had the car.
GW: Uh-hum (affirmative).
SB: And I explained to her that per Florida Statutes uhm, on the fourth day that the vehicle is here we’re required by law to send out a certified letter to the registered owner of the vehicle. Uhm, we have the information of who the vehicle belongs to and, and uh, our computer system uhm, automatically generates those letters and they’re sent out you know, with our mail, certified mail, as this one was. And however four days from the date the vehicle came in would have been in July the Fourth.
GW: Right.
SB: Uhm, it puts a day in it there. And I explained to her that you know, the, the Post Office is out of our control. Looking at the calendar we figured out that due to the July the Fourth holiday, and then the weekend, the upcoming weekend uhm, was the reason that the letter took so long to get to her.
GW: Okay.
Burch, Simon/Case #08-069208/GG
SB: We mailed it out as requested. And once I’d explained that to her she understood. I mean she was like, “Okay, I, I, I understand and I appreciate it.” She was still agitated def…very definitely.
Your right Riddleme there really was a shift, it seems to me,from denial to outright lying and covering up.I should have said that in an earlier post.I don’t believe they are capable of murdering their little granddaughter.If this is Casey’s defense,what reason would they have for doing that?Accident ..no they would have called 911.Her goose is cooked.
Also I am thinking that those loose lips flapped annie’s way.so when casey told annie “I have so much to tell you when all is said and done” and annie replied no thanks I think what she really meant was “hey sister, I already heard that story, don’t need to hear it from you”.
Silver, Can the defense come up with a reason that would satisfy a judge to keep the lab results from being released to the public? Also, as the murder trial is so far in the future, does Baez have a leg to stand on to get it postponed until after the trial?
I find it very interesting that the defense is trying to keep those lab results private. Could we finally have the results that were performed on the “death circle” and the paper towels used to try to clean it……
oh, JW as some sort of ‘team leader’ is part and parcel of the motion to request TM and his records as witness. Can anyone say Ad Hominem?
Well written motions for a change– each with a tad of threat if they don’t get what they are asking for, sort of apologetically veiled threat to go another route.
Surely hope that Tim Miller’s friend, and friend of ‘the right thing’ for tiny victims in this case, Mr. Mark NeJame, comes to the ‘rescue’ once again.
Also, I can cut the Ants slack on picking up their certified letter. From what I have seen, those things are hardly ever good news—they tend to be things like official notices from the IRS, or notices about law suits, etc. I can’t imagine they would think it was casey/caylee related except re: more bad things casey has done that will now cost geo and cin $$$—-which indeed was the case. I do understand that kc and caylee were missing for a month, but I would think the Ants were probably thinking (dreading) that they would hear something more immediately than via snail mail—say an urgent phone call from a hospital (or the police, or a morgue, etc.). Certified mail, for me anyway, doesn’t scream “urgent.”
#1395 susann. One other thing I have been thinking about is the story george gave le about the 6/16 date and the outfit caylee was wearing. Was the outfit that feorge described a match to the childs outfit found in the bag on 8/18 (and seen by cindy already) she fed this info to george to give to le in an attempt to have george incriminate himself..
Riddlemethis, IF Casey was planning to go back to retrieve the car, do some ‘clean up’, why? The car supports the S.O.D. kidnapped and killed the baby as an ‘after the deed’ creation at least. If Casey’s efforts were indeed to get prints on cans, prints on something in or to be put in, the car, throw the light on someone by including documents with names (like CV’s), leave the baby seat inside. Where would she clean the car? In the parking lot of an apartment complex? Not likely, even if no security cameras, there are lots of eyes she can’t control. If she ‘hides’ somewhere and someone notices the activity, that raises more suspicion again. Maybe the ‘nanny’ did it and then told me to ride around with the body, then hide the body, go to a party, then clean up the car, would fly… well, even for Casey that would be far-fetched. Where would she get cleaning supplies except at the house? Where is good ‘cover’, except in the garage at ‘the house’?
Why tell friends about the smell and put that on record? The laundry bag can not be tied to the Anthony home by consistency of Brand AND STYLE.
If Casey did intend to get the car and play ‘cleaner’ to sanitize it for her own use again, then suggestions of her framing people is not consistent. The car had become part of the S.O.D. cover and the laundry bag– well, we will eventually see where than came from and whose prints/DNA could be on it. Could it be that Casey found the laundry bag, and somehow got hair or DNA from Jesse attached to that from clothing articles when she went for ‘a shower’?
Cleaning the car would then make no sense– Casey took Jesse’s car through a car wash before picking him up at the airport, maybe to ‘impress’ her man. She could have ‘innocently looking’ done the same with her car, vaccuuming the trunk at one of the car wash places– very innocent looking. Hair, fibres, all gone into a big public vaccuum system. Then she could have steam cleaned things inside and out too.
No, there was a reason she left the car there and that was to create the crime scene that fit with S.O.Dude(s) and/or Dudette (s). If SOD did it, then she did NOT do it. Minimally, it’s reasonable doubt, it’s shared blame.
oops… ‘Casey took Tony’s car through a car wash….’ (typo sorry– not Jesse of course!)
1404 silverspnr
I think it’s pretty obvious that Cindy didn’t believe Casey was in Jacksonville because when Casey told Cindy on July 3 that she and Caylee had been in Jacksonville since the beginning of the week (June 30), Cindy called Casey’s good friend Ryan Pasley (who was going to school in Jacksonville) to ask him if he knew Casey and Caylee were in town. If Cindy had believed Casey, she wouldn’t have called Ryan to see if he could verify Casey’s story. Hours later, Cindy called Lee to say Casey and Caylee had been gone from the house for over two weeks, and Lee checked Casey’s MySpace and saw that she told someone she would be at the Dragon Room in Orlando that night. While Lee was staked out at the Dragon Room waiting for Casey, Cindy opened a MySpace account of her own, wrote the “betrayal” message, and tried to become Casey’s MySpace friend so that Casey would read the message.
My own opinion is that Cindy did not find anything in the yard on July 3 (or any other date between June 16 and July 15). As I interpret the situation, Casey told Cindy the week before (when Zanny had allegedly been hospitalized and Casey was driving back and forth from Orlando to Tampa) that she wouldn’t bring Caylee home that week as Cindy had requested because Cindy was working and would not be able to watch Caylee. So Cindy took vacation time the following week from June 30-July 4 to be available to watch Caylee. Casey refused to bring Caylee home on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday of that week, telling Cindy that Caylee was going to various parks. On Thursday, July 3, Casey told Cindy that she was once again not going to bring Caylee to Hopespring Drive because Caylee was going to be at Universal.
I think Cindy’s pot boiled over on July 3 because the vacation she had taken for the sole purpose of being available to see Caylee was almost over by Thursday afternoon on July 3, so in anger and frustration, she grabbed her car keys and drove to Universal, determined to see Caylee. She said she arrived around 2:30-3:00pm, paid $10 to park in the Universal visitors’ lot (she told LE she has the receipt), and called Casey’s cell phone. That’s when Casey said, ‘oh, we’ve actually been in Jacksonville since the beginning of the week and I’m having car problems.’
When Cindy called Ryan Pasley, she vented her anger against Casey by telling Ryan that Casey had been lying about a lot of things and stealing from Cindy and Shirley Plesea. Cindy advised Ryan to have nothing to do with Casey and even called Casey a sociopath. Later in the evening, Cindy wrote the “My Caylee is Missing” MySpace message which, as someone noted upthread, was intended to induce maximum guilt in Casey.
I perceive a furious mother in Cindy’s July 3 actions, not a grandmother who believes harm has come to her granddaughter.
Cindy did say she got Amy’s number from a resume in the car when she spoke to OCSO. In her FBI interview, she only said she got Amy’s number that was in the work bag in the Pontiac.
From her August 4 OCSO interview, page 50:
Cindy: This was in her work bag, the bag, there was no clothing bag, was her work bag that had Amy’s resumes in there cause it had an envelope with Amy’s resumes. Casey had a lanyard that had Universal Studios ID, it was her original one from when she worked at Kodak.
From her July 30 FBI interview (no transcript, these are notes):
Cindy later found Casey from tracking her through Amy’s number that was in the car in Casey’s work bag.
Baez got Casey’s bond reduced as they wanted in this story (from last year) below!!!!! FINALLY!!! Didn’t take going to the Supreme Court to do it either!
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/services/newspaper/printedition/thursday/localandstate/orl-b3focus3108jul31,0,695296.story
Bond, according to at least two of the motions filed by Baez and Lyon yesterday, they state bond is $50,000.00. (what a difference a zero makes… so does this mean they will not attempt to have bond reduced, what does it mean if Judge Strickland misses this typo and rules on the motions without catching it?)
Who is not paying attention to otherwise seemingly carefully crafted motions?
Maura, ‘work bag’– Casey was not working! A work ID would not be useful in a traffic stop, or for cashing a cheque or anything else for which a legal identification would be needed.
(btw, betting that the ‘lanyard’ ended up being taken by Lee to do his investigation of Casey’s work connections)
why did casey have amy’s resumes?in her ‘work bag’,with her work badge?
Kleat isn’t the article a year old..july 17th 2008? Also bail is $500,000..a surity bond then is 10% or the $50,000 Lenny produced for her last August. Since she is now in jail since October when she was arrested for murder I thought there was no more bail set in this part of the case. In capitol murder I don’t think you have to set bail if a person is considered a risk to others or a flight risk.
Thanks Gypsy DD, I got mixed up (aka didn’t know the difference) between a surity bond and bail. Thanks!
Maura – I agree with you 100%. Its almost as if you are thinking exactly like Casey when you sift throught the evidence and come up with logical reasons for her doing ‘this or that’. I don’t mean that you are like Casey in any way.
IMO – if Casey really wanted the car stolen – she would have left it UNLOCKED and left the key in the ‘work’ bag or the ignition.
IMO – Cindy had nothing to do with the crime or the disposal of the body. She would never have called 911. They would have quietly figured out a way to get Casey out of town for a long time and then they would have come up with a long-term story about Casey being adopted or united with her paternal biological side of the family. Cindy’s 911 tape and behavior while trying to find Casey/Caylee in the days leading up to the 911 call are clearly of a grandmother starting to think something very awful has happened. She is much too ‘out of control’ and her fear is evident in her voice and her actions.
Cindy is the one that gave the bag left in the car the name ‘work bag’. Remember at the time – everyone still thought Casey was employed.
1142 susanm
IIRC Amy was looking for a job and Casey offered to help her by giving her boss her resume, I do remember Casey texting her that most people start off as interns. Another one of her fantasies runith over.
I really do believe her thought process was on a day to day basis, nothing concrete, nothing steady, not thought out beyond the day.
I believe that is why people are stumped with some of the major to the minor details. She was flying by the seat of her pants everyday. She had so may lies going on with so many different people, I don’t believe she could think ahead, and think beyond them. For example, lets just say Cindy never pushed to see Caylee, how was she going to explain to Amy she cashed her checks? No car? No money? I’m sure she would’ve lied her way out of it the best she could, and from what we’ve seen, I personally think she missed her calling … she should’ve been an actress! Those lies do run out though. We as normal people think of these things, but in her mind, thinking ahead wasn’t even a thought.
Thanks all for the certified letter info.
I don’t agree that Cindy was trying to create an impression that she found the flight information in Casey’s car. For one thing, with the exception of the washed pants and the missing lanyard, Cindy claimed to have handed over everything that was in the car when OCSO took possession of the car and the contents on July 16.
For another thing, Casey had Amy’s flight information (and Ricardo’s and JP’s) by June 4 when she was still living at home. Casey never made a reservation, and Troy made his reservation in July.
When Ricardo, JP, Amy, Troy, and Casey decided to take a vacation in Puerto Rico (staying with relatives of Ricardo and JP to save money), Casey is the one who searched flights and fares to determine the best deal they could get for the trip, which was tentatively planned for the first two weeks of July.
Casey determined that the best deal was a Jet Blue flight from Orlando (MCO) to Aquadilla, Puerto Rico (BQN). It was understood that each of the vacationers would be making his or her Jet Blue reservations individually, but they were also trying to get on the same flights if at all possible. Casey was originally planning (or pretending to be planning) to fly out with Amy and Ricardo on July 8.
Here are a few of Amy’s text messages on the subject:
May 6
(11:36AM) from Casey Anthony: We will celebrate puerto rican style this summer. Haha.
May 7:
(10:45AM) from Casey Anthony: Ok so im thinking we take a morning flight. I want to get the most out of this trip
(10:49AM) from Casey Anthony: Im on that now. Haha. 342.. departs at 810am and arrives at 1048am. Then on the 9th departs at 1135am and arrives at 221pm
(10:54AM) from Casey Anthony: Si. Thats the latest flight for the cheap rate. Thats the 8th day. At least its not super early in the morning
(10:59AM) Oh i completely agree. If anything as long as we buy them around the same time we should be ok with our seats. I think we could call the airline and get them adjusted after the fact. As long as we sit together i dont care. Haha.
May 14:
(8:49AM) from Casey Anthony: Its official. As long as we take our trip withing the first 2 weeks of july im set. I just got my vacation cleared
June 4:
From Amy to Casey: I have my tickets; now it’s up to you and Troy to get yours [Apparently Ricardo and JP had already booked their flights since only Amy only mentions Casey and Troy as needing to make their reservations.]
June 30: In Troy’s text messages (incoming only in the discovery), there is an exchange between Casey and Troy in which Casey asked him when he was flying to Puerto Rico.
1:05p Casey text to Troy: “When are you flying out to Puerto Rico?”
[Troy’s response unavailable.]
1:09p Casey text to Troy: “Not sure yet either. I may fly out with Amy and come back early or may fly out for the weekend.”
Casey had been keeping track of each person’s schedule and she had apparently saved information on the Anthony home computer about the flights for each person because Cindy claimed Casey had booked each person’s flight using the Anthony computer. During her July 30 FBI interview, Cindy told the agent that the HP computer had been returned to the family but they wanted the laptop so the family could search it as they had been searching the HP. Cindy didn’t say what day the HP had been returned, but during her FBI interview, she discussed the Puerto Rican trip information that they had found on the HP computer.
Cindy was deeply suspicious that JP, Ricardo, Troy, and Amy did not fly out on the plane (even though they all returned on the same plane).
Amy was first interviewed on July 16. As Silver noted, in her July 23 interview, Amy said Cindy had called her the day before (July 22) because Cindy had found a piece of paper with the friends’ flight times written on it.
Jesse Grund also thought it was suspicious that the friends all took different flights, and on July 22 (the same day that Cindy called Amy to ask about the flights), Jesse Grund sent a text message to Amy saying LE would probably want to know why they all left on different days for the trip to Puerto Rico.
Amy’s text message reply to Jesse Grund: “JP went early for family stuff, Ric was on my flight but then decided to go to boston first to visit a friend and retard didn’t check flight times. Boston flight got here way after my flight left and had to change it to later that day. Troy had a job interview that Friday then worked then flew out late fri night. Originally we were all planning to fly together. Casey actually picked the flights.”
On the evening of July 23, Cindy requested that all of Casey’s friends meet at the Anthony house at 8:00pm to go over the timeline. Annie Downing arranged the meeting and contacted everyone. Annie brought Ricardo (they work together at Don Reid Ford), and Cindy kept a close eye on him during the meeting.
Cindy told the FBI on June 30 that ever since Casey’s arrest, her friends had come over to talk because they found it therapeutic to talk and be close to the Anthony family. Amy didn’t go to the meeting on July 23, but Ricardo did. Cindy thought he was upset because he had just found out that Tony was Casey’s boyfriend. [I'm pretty sure Ricardo had worked that out weeks earlier.] Cindy said Ricardo was sweating a lot and was uncomfortable and uneasy. Everyone else was eating and having a cold drink and were relaxed, but Ricardo was very uncomfortable. Ricardo was invited by Annie and didn’t participate in anything. Cindy found it odd that Ricardo and Amy had not participated in the Caylee search. [Amy had passed out flyers, so either Cindy didn't know about Amy's help or she wanted the FBI to think Amy had no interest in finding Caylee.]
A bit later in the interview, Cindy shared her suspicion that Zanny might be a code word for Amy and that Jeff might be a code word for ex-boyfried (which would be Ricardo). Since Casey had told Cindy at one point that Caylee was being watched by Jeff’s mother, Cindy wondered if Caylee could be with Ricardo’s mother.
During that July 30 FBI interview, Cindy showed the agent the piece of paper that she said contained all the flight numbers in Casey’s handwriting and discussed the booking information the Anthonys had found on the HP computer. She shared her suspicions with OCSO a few days later.
At any rate, I do believe Cindy found the handwritten flight list in the house (either in Casey’s room or in the office where the Anthonys kept the HP computer) or with Casey’s things that Lee picked up from Tony’s. LE was aware from the information downloaded from the HP computer on July 17 that Casey had known of the flight times for the Puerto Rican vacation since early May and had known of the specific flights of Ricardo, JP, and Amy long before she left the house on June 16.
I don’t know what Cindy meant when she said they killed all that grass.
Florida grasses are tough enough to survive in a tropical climate, but they’ll die fairly quickly if they don’t get sufficient water and just because they can withstand high temperatures and intense sunlight doesn’t mean their resistant to disease or pests.
I’ve said in the past that “I killed a houseplant” – not meaning that I deliberately killed the plant but just as an idiomatic expression that it died under my care.
1441 Kleat
I don’t know what your point is. I never said Casey used the Universal ID for anything except as a prop to fool people into thinking she was working. Cindy refers to the black bag that contained Casey’s Universal lanyard and an envelope of Amy’s resumes as her “work bag” aka her “other purse.” When I refer to the work bag I am only calling it what Cindy calls it.
Casey had a purse that contained her wallet, and her FL driver’s license was in the wallet. Those were items that Lee picked up from Tony’s apartment around midnight on July 16:
From Lee Anthony’s July 29 OCSO interview:
Pages 18-19:
EE: Okay, so you went and you picked up [Casey’s things from Tony’s apartment]. Give me that list of items again.
LA: Sure. Uhm . . .
EE: From Tony’s apartment at Sutton Place.
LA: Yea. Uhm, this was uhm, around midnight. I went and picked up uhm, my sister’s laptop. Uhm, well it’s actually my mom’s laptop, but you know, my sister was, she’s had it for that past month or so. So uh, the laptop, uhm, a very large uhm, leopard print duffle bag that had all of her clothing and item uhm, in there. Uhm, a ihm, a backpack, a white backpack with kind of a uh, you know, a pattern or you know, a symbol on that uhm, that also had some more clothing items in there. Uhm, a large purse and some, you know, some kind of you know, female items. You know things like that, like her toiletries and that kind of stuff. And then also a, a more slender black bag that I ended up using as the bag for the laptop. I figured that’s how she was carrying it around. There was some paperwork and things like that in there. And uhm, all of it was extremely organized and . . .
Pages 24-25
“So as the officer comes back inside the house when my mother already has the wallet open and is continuing to go through the wallet that’s when my mother is showing the officer, “Look, this is my J.C. Penney card that she took from me. Look, this another card that she took from me. But as my uhm mother went to take out my sister’s identification from that little sleeved, you know that clear sleeve that you can see through, uhm, immediately the officer’s hand went in there and grabbed something that was behind that i.d. (identification). It looked to me white like the old style driver’s license, or learner’s permit or something like that. That’s what I assumed. But it struck me and I noticed it because of how quickly the officer went in and grabbed that. Uhm, I couldn’t tell you for sure what it that was, but…..”
(snipped)
“… that the officer grabbed. But if, again I can only attest to I saw one driver’s license. It’s looks a lot like the newer versions like, you know, mine. It has all those holograms and stuff on it. Uhm, aside from whatever that other more predominately white, I, I’m just calling it…”
“…an i.d. because it was shaped as one and I’m, that’s my best guess on what it would have been. But I did not see any other form of identification in there whatsoever.”