Caylee/Casey Anthony Case: Caylees Autopsy Revelations Part I
Orlando, FL– Under heavy objection last Friday afternoon, Judge Stan Strickland denied the motion on behalf of George and Cindy Anthony to seal Caylee Marie Anthonys autopsy until their daughter Caseys capital murder trial in their granddaughters death. Late Friday afternoon, the Findings of Dr. Jan Garavaglia, Chief Medical Examiner of Orange County were released. In Part I, we explore a few of the notable findings, In Development for Part II, Blinkoncrime will be is creating an interactive 3D Model, incorporating the evidence recovery field, bone disbursement pattern, and anatomical example of the duct tape placement.
The Laundry Bag
Although the report contains a significant amount of anthropologic and forensic data, it does not contain photos or X-Rays, pursuant to the Earnhardt exclusion under Florida Law. Blinkoncrime.com will attempt to offer some observations and in some cases, correct some erroneous information that is being reported in the msm. For starters, the laundry bag picture being circulated, it is incorrect, the image to the left is the correct bag, note the dimensions are exact. The top of this bag does not cinch.
The Duct Tape
I have seen rampant speculation on the duct tape beginning around 15 minutes following the release of the report. 
There are many who believe that Casey Anthony killed her child by wrapping her nose and mouth with duct tape. Allow me to point out the report actually reflects the antithesis of this theory. First, there IS NO TAPE ON THE POSTERIOR of her skull. The only posterior placement of the tape mentioned is still located on the mandible, or face. The tape, which was actually small strips of grey cloth-based, delaminating tape is applied on top of itself, not really feasible with a live toddler. Given the findings that Caylee’s mandible stayed in almost true anatomical position, although slightly posterior and that the hair that was attached to the tape extended from the back of her head and over her head and face, it is likely Caylee was laying on her back when the tape was applied. Henkel makes 2 kinds of duct tape, one is more Industrial grade of adhesive “hot set” over cloth designed for waterproof and outdoor projects. It has not yet been disclosed which formulation was used.
The O Sign
A contributing poster at blinkoncrime gave me something to think about that had not occurred to me. I am on record stating I do believe that Casey Anthony murdered her daughter, and that she will end up pointing the finger at one or both of her parents as a defense strategy.
However, the duct tape never really fit for me. I have always believed it to be a post mortem tactic to stage a kidnapping. I do believe I may have been wrong. Very well known to medical and critical care professionals, there is something called an O effect; occurring at very near death, or shortly following death and before rigormortis sets in.
Some medical people refer to it when the person is very near death or has just died–the jaw drops open. Nothing left to hold the mandible shut. In morgue kits there is a strap that is applied around the jaw to gently close it before rigor sets in. This “O” sign can be very pronounced and unsettling to see first hand. Casey probably wasn’t aware of this and was really spooked by this silent scream and used the duct tape then put a heart sticker on it as a ________
This makes sense to me. The tape is applied in small strips across the nose and mouth areas, catching her hair in the face over the Coronal plane region. One interpretation that may be drawn is that Caylee was lying on her back, upon seeing what Casey had done to her child as evidenced by the relaxed mandible; she attempted to “fix her”. As if covering up the evidence of death on her baby would change things, complete with a heart sticker. No sooner did I arrive at this conclusion on Saturday, did I see Dr.Michael Baden appear on Geraldo Live on Sunday evening bringing up the mortuary kit issue. I am not saying this idea originated here, not that it would be the first time, but it at least tells me there is corroboration within the forensic Medical community as to the premise. The FBI report on the duct tape has not been released. One thing is certain, what I have been stating all along about Casey’s prints being on the duct tape seems foreboding. With multiple strips of tape, chances are there are several. The defense has had this report for months, is this why Casey Anthony retained Todd Macaluso?
Swim Diaper?
There are several remnants recovered that are described as a diaper or pull ip item. However, there are a few that appear to be strictly synthetic. When I read the report, my immediate reaction based on some of the coloring was that it was a “swimmie”, or disposable swim diaper. After mapping out the dimensions and a closer look, I believe it is actually referring to remnants of both a pull up, a reusable swim diaper, or swim floation/assistance device or both, as pictured here:
Paper Towels
Simply stated there is decomposition fluid on paper towels in the plastic garbage bag found in her trunk that came from Tony Lazzarros apartment.
In my opinion, Casey ripped the bag Caylees remains were in when she moved her body into or out of the trunk to her final resting place in the woods off Suburban. The stain in the trunk, emitting the ungodly stench, was the target of the paper towels after Casey returned to TonE’s apartment. She brought the paper towels and garbage bag out with her in an attempt to clean it up and realized almost immediately it was an excerise in futility. Immediately following are her comments to Amy about George Anthony borrowing her car, and the infamous squirrel stowaway story.
Her Clothes
In contrast to only a stitching remnant with a manufactures tag left of her shirt, Caylees shorts were found nearly 2 ft ft away from the laundry bag, in relatively good condition. Based on the reports findings of trunk and femural animal activity and the corresponding recovery area, I am of the opinion that it is not possible that Caylee was wearing those shorts when she was dumped in the woods. Frankly, given the fact that the actual color stripe pattern was discernable versus the condition of the other items, I am suspect Casey was in those woods more than once. How do you get only the collar of a shirt remaining and her shorts completely intact with no noted damage? Lastly, Caylees shoes if she were wearing any, were not recovered.
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carolyn = #1424
I very much agree with your points. I dont believe at all that in the beginning that George or Cindy knew, they might have had some worrisome thoughts but I dont think they knew caylee was dead nor do I believe that either of them had anything to do with killing caylee.
To maura. The urban or street definition of lanyard is used as an adjective. Adj. Something that is completly unbearable. I.E my mother is so “lanyard”. http://www.urbandictionary.com
I just assume that Cindy has some kind of emotional problems that make her unable or unwilling to face the truth but just as an off-the-wall question, is there any other possible scenario that would explain her vehement fight to cover up what has happened?
Kleat-
L love reading your sleuthing as well as all the others, and I am always willing to stand corrected. I will also be the first to admit I don’t have the dates or all the intricate details/dates down pat as well as you and others. So FWIW…..
Having said that, a couple things in particular make me think she was likely going back for the car. (albeit, she could have changed her mind on this at any given moment). Maura’s post on it moreover just made sense to me in light of the following.
NUMERO UNO and FOREMOST THROUGH OUT…Casey doesn’t think very far ahead, nor plan well. This is evident through and through. This is almost more constant than anything else in this saga, and perhaps the only thing you can count on from Casey. She flies by the seat of her pants and counts on her own ability to deflect and con as she goes along.
I agree as stated several times here, we give (me included) Casey too much credit. Especially as far as planning ahead me thinks.
My belief is, Casey really thinks she can convince anyone of anything at anytime. She lives in her own ‘reality’, where only she decides what the facts are, she does not bother too much with the concept of reality by the rest of the world, anyone who disagrees with her is wrong. We cannot forget this aspect of Casey, it’s too fundamental to all her actions IMO.
Additionally,
1) It’s the only car she had, and she had no real means to get another car permanently. (Remember,Casey’s ‘needs’ are number one, and trump all.)
2) She locked it in a public place. If you want your car stolen, you might put it in a public place, but you don’t lock it. (maybe she left it there as an alibi to pin on others, but that would imply she had already planned to have the story come out. I don’t think she was convinced she’d be caught yet. In fact I don’t think she finalized her story until she pulled it out of her a** while talking to Lee at the house when the cops were called on July 15th. I don’t doubt she had contemplated the story before this if needed, but she wasn’t going to commit to anything (story wise) until she was absolutely cornered.) If she had been cornered before that by Cindy and already tied in ZG somehow, okay, but haven’t seen enough yet to be convinced exactly how much Cindy knew before July 15th.
3) The car actually was out of gas, and she had run out of gas before.
There is just no way I think she had all the minute details worked out 2-3 weeks ahead of time. If this were the case, she’d have laid out a story w/o lying to LE so stupidly from the get go. I do think she might have planted something here or there with disconnected thoughts of how it might help her out down the road somehow, but no, I don’t believe she had a cohesive thought out plan. Just don’t personally buy it, it’s not Casey’s MO. Casey is impulsive and scattered….ALWAYS. When we try to assign rational thought to someone who is completely irrational, that’s (I think) where we make an error. But again, I catch myself doing the same thing.
I think in her own irrational thinking, yes she thought she could clean out the car, (or cover the odor) or at least reduce the odor enough for the ‘squirrel plan’ to fly. With TL away, and her having her own use of his car, she could get back and forth to the car w/o help. Move it, take it elsewhere (go to a car wash even) and return it to Amscot (or nearby) and get dropped off later. But she couldn’t as the car was gone. Again, I don’t proclaim to be in Casey’s head, god help anyone who could (LOL).
Also, I remember Cindy stating there had been cleaning products in the trunk in response to the allegations of cloroform being in the trunk.
Why, if Casey were planning to frame someone with the car, would she make any attempt to clean it up at all? And leave the paper towels in there? Further, as far as Casey knew her slacks were still in that car, and I think if Cindy had not washed them (which Casey had no way of foreseeing) they likely would have implicated Casey in Caylee’s death. So why would she have left them in the car?
Hmm…just thought of that last part while typing….
Blink — as we’re waiting for more evidence from the car, do you think it’s possible or probable that Caylee’s DNA could have been extracted from the decomp in the car or on the paper towels? Do you think this may be part of what will be released by the end of the month?
susanm, hadn’t casey told amy she was going to try to get her a job at universal? Maybe she actually had amy give her a resume to supposedly take in?
From Text Messages from Casey Anthony (14076199286) to Amy Huizenga per 07/23/08 OCSO Forensics Report:
0345 14076199286 05/13/08 10:08:19AM (GMT-4)(Casey Text Amy): I have 3 of them to friends in entertainment. None of them knew if they were hiring or what for. The good thing about universal is that theyre always hirxtra hours. The boy thing we will fix and the job thing I feel like im in the same boat. Youre not alone in this. Ill do whatever I can to help
0342 14076199286 05/13/08 10:13:16AM (GMT-4)(Casey Text Amy): Yeah exactly. Even if you come in seasonally its still start. A lot of people started that way especially in entertainment
0339 14076199286 05/13/08 10:14:53AM (GMT-4)(Casey Text Amy): Like I said. Ill do whatever I can
#1442-susanm,
There is NO telling what Casey REALLY wanted the resumes for, or what she could/would have done with them, but she of course was lying to Amy about working and had told her that she could pass around some of her resumes and see about getting her hired on with the company she worked for. Unfortunately for Amy, Casey wasn’t really working, but after mentioning that she needed another job, Casey said she would try and help her out, so Amy gave her the resumes. As I said, Casey may have just taken them because of the reasons I stated, but with her, who really knows what she could have ended up doing with them to benefit herself.
Amy was a theater arts major at UCF and was working part-time at Orlando Repertory Theater in addition to waitressing at Houlihan’s. Since Casey was pretending to work at Universal in the event planning sector, she told Amy she would pass Amy’s resumes to people who might be able to offer Amy a good theater position.
To answer the question on the likely ‘timeline’ of the certified letter. July 4th, 2008 was a Friday (4th day per Simon B). Assuming the towing office was closed and reopened Monday, the letter would have gone out Monday July 7th. Certified letters are required to go out via First Class mail. This would be an overnight delivery from Orlando to Orlando, and the PO standard would be overnight.
Given this timeline, it should have been attempted to be delivered to the Anthony’s the first time on Tuesday July 8th. If they did not answer the door, a notice would have been left in the box or at the door.
The PO delivered mail on Saturday July 5th, and therefore did not have an ‘after the holiday’ rush on Monday July 7th, and even if there was a ‘one day glitch’ in there, it’s almost inconceivable the letter would have been delayed by more than a day, (depending on what time SB actually sent it out on Monday) so the first attempt should have been Tues, July 8th, and no later than Wed. July 9th if there was a glitch. If the letter carrier knows someone is usually home during the day, they might have attempted it 2 days in a row (Tues, and Wed), but this is not the norm.
After this, the certified letter is left in the Post office for pick up. Generally then a postal clerk will re-write a new notice on a new slip and give it to the carrier to deliver (usually about 10 days after the first attempt), but this is just the slip. At this point the carrier doesn’t actually have the letter with them on the street, so they would NOT go to the door either, and the notice then definitely goes in with the regular mail. (Note this would be for a ‘final notice’ before it’s returned to the sender). Hope I’m making sense here.
Bottom line, they would have gotten the first notice by Tues July 8th or no later than Wed July 9th. You can bet on it.
PS – Amy’s text messages show that she was talking about her work at ORT with Casey, and that is no doubt the source of Casey’s idea for the “script” she was required to follow.
I’ve been noddling on the significance of the word HOLT mentioned in some comments and went back and studied our local map. I had heard the word HOLT as well, way back when.
So, here’s what I’ve come up with — throwing it out for comment. Kids have a tendancy to come up with names or acronyms for things so they can talk in code around adults. When I looked at the map the school is at the very end of a street or more appropriately — the end of a “lane”. It caught my eye because my house is similiarly situated on my street and it is a Lane. So could HOLT stand for “Hidden Oaks lane trees”? An acronym neighbourhood kids used to say where to meet? Just a thought.
boo, agreed lee loves to talk,and loose in that interview,i wish they’d let him talk a bit looser (instead of filling in the blanks so much)he is not telling the whole story,on the vist, lee seems to be encouraging a confession when he is telling her that if there is something she wants to say or tell to go to the police directly avoid baez,he might intercept.im afraid to say what i think about that,appeal? silverspn?
riddlemethis – #1454
You explain perfectly how I feel about the car and casey. She absolutely flys by the seat of her pants as I have before pointed out we see so perfectly when she is 7 months pregnant and says she isnt. No thought whatsoever that in 2 months a baby will show everyone how you lied. George talks about how caseys car was in great shape for the year it was and altho needed a little mechanical work, it wasnt a junk car and casey needed a car. I cant imagine her parents were going to rent her a car when George seems to know that car from top to bottom. I am sure casey had no idea how tough it would be to get rid of the smell, and am sure the smell wasnt as bad as it got to me, sitting all closed up in the florida sun for several days. Before this case, I sure wouldnt have.
I cant wait, hope we get some new stuff at the end of the month and really hope bozo loses his motion to put off the cheque fraud case. He reminds me of a snake, wonder why casey kept him or maybe not much choice with no money.
Maura #1460, you intrigue me with this idea, tell more… I remember someone (rick plesea? not sure) saying that casey had a tendency to pick up facts from things that were going on and weave them into her stories.
It seems that if casey were on her own, the truth may have outed by now but the greatest part of this whole strange story results from cindy anthony’s involvement. I have to say I have never seen someone so stubborn, it’s as though she’s fighting for her own life. I can certainly feel compassion but her actions only keep making it worse.
Okay Maybe Casey was home when the mail came and she put it on the door for George? to find it as from what I recall, George was not living at the house.
I think Casey was giving Cindy clues and hints and Cindy was just NOT GETTING IT! Casey was throwing the ball and noone was catching it.
She seems to be quite immature and my kids would do this to get my attention when they were in trouble?
I Just will not believe that Cindy did not know something was wrong.
She and Casey are playing a human game of chess it seems.
Excellent posts on that letter, Riddlemethis. I’m sure the post office can has easily provided LE with the precise information. There is a reason that legal notices which affect one’s property rights are sent via certified mail. It not only serves to protect the property owner, it likewise provides the sender with what we call “proof of service”.
JG/#1432-
The only basis to argue that the judge should seal evidence from becoming public knowledge during the pre-trial phase is that it will deprive the defendant of a fair trial.
What Casey’s defense team should truly be concerned with is what evidence they can get the judge to preclude AT trial. Not only because of the very real concern about what the jury will see/hear/consider in arriving at their verdict, but particularly here where they must be concerned with the evidence of record to be considered on appeal.
I already posted that I expect the defense to file a Motion in Limine to preclude the admission of evidence regarding the testing of the air in the trunk of the vehicle for proof of decomp at trial. The same goes for any/all scientific evidence which can fairly be characterized as “novel”.
As for CINDY/the letter/the car/finding Amy/yard work/July 3rd:
I wish that Cindy were so innocent. I truly do. It’s a difficult task to replace sympathy for a grieving grandparent with a more rational conviction that said grieving grandmother is ALSO attempting to obstruct justice, for whatever purpose (in defense of her daughter/perhaps in defense of herself, whether on a legal level, or just on a purely face-saving crusade).
Remember, she didn’t just meet with the FBI. She gave SWORN STATEMENTS to OCSO.
To that point:
A) Cindy told OCSO detectives that she believed Casey was in Jacksonville on July 15th, the day she and George went to Johnson’s to get the car; (do you believe her??)
B) Cindy didn’t tell OCSO that she got Amy’s number off of a resume– she said she found it in the front seat of the car, under Casey’s “purse”.
Take a look at her testimony from the Q&A:
15. A. That’s what she said. In fact, I was under the impression she was in
16. Jacksonville the day we found the car, that was the whole point, she
17. was supposed to be in Jacksonville.
*****SKIPPING TO ANOTHER SECTION****
And
23. then um when I got off work I was home by, between 5:30 and 6, is
24 when I found, I didn’t go through the car, I found um, the, Amy’s
25.
1. number in the front under Caysee’s purse, (NOT, AS YOU STATE, ON AMY’s CV in CASEY’S “WORK BAG”–(ahem)–, but rather in the front of the car, under Casey’s “PURSE”) so I called her first,
never
2. met Amy before that. Had heard about her but never met her.
3. Q. Went and picked up Amy?
4. A. Yelp. (THERE IT IS, AGAIN– CINDY’S “YELP” ..pssst..FOR HELP) she, first she you know was gonna just come and meet me
5. somewhere and she had to make a phone call, I don’t know who she
6. called and then she called me back and said, cause I offered
7. originally to go pick her up at the airport, (?the AIRPORT????) I mean at the uh, mall. (RIGHT.–AT THE UH, MALL.)
For those of you who believe Casey intended to go back and get the car:
Whether it was at Amscot, or somewhere/somehow else– the fact is that at some point, she HAD to get rid of that car. The decomp odor in the trunk was not going to go away; to the contrary, it was destined–by scientific principles–to get progressively worse.
June 25, 2008-Casey first texts Amy about the bad smell.
June 26, 2008-Casey again texts Amy abotu that the bad smell. It had gotten “worse”.
June 27, 2008-Casey leaves car at Amscot/has Tony pick her up/and despite all the gas can stuff, never retrieves to vehicle.
The evidence that shows she didn’t intend to retrieve it IS THAT SHE NEVER RETRIEVED IT (even though she had DAYS to do so, thanks to Amscot’s liberal internal policy).
In any event, if she had retrieved it as you believe she intended, don’t you agree that she would have just as quickly learned/concluded that she had to rid herself of it?? I’m not understanding why anyone believes she could continue to use the car in that state.
And as to JULY 3RD…
MAJOR, MAJOR day for that family. Just begin with the VERIFIABLE electronic evidence we have for that date. Start with cell phone records for Cindy and Casey on that date. Once you get that logged, compare the cell records between Cindy and Casey on all previous days to the activity level on July 3rd. Then, look at Cindy’s activities on July 3rd. Busy, busy, busy. And just after July 3rd? Well, per Shirley Plesea, that’s when she was doing all that hard work at home in her yard, Cindy.
I think in my initial post about the “killing grass” I said I didn’t know if it held any real value/meaning. It is certainly possible that they were just doing routine yard work as well. The thing that catches my attention about it is:
a) it comes out during her OCSO statement, in the middle of many other –to put it nicely–highly questionable statements;
b) it is tied to the whole story about the certified letter/when they got Notice about the car;
c) the language itself– it isn’t just the “we killed all that grass”– it’s the other language around it as well (Cindy has a tendency to use certain language patterns when she is AWARE that she is making false and/or misleading statements)
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2005-04/1114460899.Gb.r.html
A worthwhile read regarding decomposition of the human body. Skip down to the 5 steps of decomposition.
Imagine how that car already smelled by June 27th. It was only going to get worse.
When George opened the trunk on the tow lot, flies flew out;maggots were squirming.
She was going to be driving a car around which was attracting flies, who were laying eggs, creating maggots???
To Steadychick #1455
I am no expert, but after reading and re-reading O.R.N.L. forensic report and the report on the the paper towels. I am going to guess they have retrieved plenty of Caylee’s DNA. Just the paper towels alone had gravewax and 3-4 different esstentail fatty acids (not to mention the marajana). Going over that forensic report and the “large stain” located in the trunk I went and found:
http://www.caldecon.com/services/unattended-death-cleanup.html
They say, “Blood and body fluids may pool under carpeting to a much larger area.”
Extracting Caylee’s DNA could very well be possible. This link brought out things that blew my mind away. It was hard reading this and thinking of Caylee at the same time. I am so glad she has peace whle she rests.
Has there been any word on when C & G are supposed to go back to court on the motion for additional depositions by Morgan & Morgan?
9/9/09 (play the lottery, lol)
B
Maura, keeping the option open to consider Casey was going to return for the car, is definitely important– the defense will certainly want to go that route (well, Cindy already made that idea public).
But Casey did delay long enough for Amy to decide to loan her own car to Casey (excuses ‘something plastered’ smell, ongoing gas guage problems), whether that was part of Casey’s plan, or whether it worked out nicely for that week when the car was discovered gone from Amscot, I’m not sure.
Casey got an opportunity for another ride, so again, maybe ‘seat of her pants’ thing, not thinking what will happen when Amy gets back and needs her own car.
What would Casey have done for wheels if Cindy had not arrived to bring her home, just in time? Again, better that she could have had parents rent her a vehicle, but that would be short-lived too, as her car would have been expected to be fixed within some reasonable time.
That is a sore-thumb coincidence that Cindy retrieved Casey on the day that Amy arrived home and took her car back. (Had Cindy been trying to call Amy in the days ahead– yes, she got the number from the papers in the car, that would be a truth certainly, but Cindy could have got Amy’s name/number other ways, through friends– or, remember that package that Amy had mailed to herself at the Anthony’s home? No phone number, but a name, an ex-cop husband and son could have helped find Amy by her name and Casey’s Myspace etc.
Casey had to know things were going to spin out of control with her stealing from Amy, Casey would have to face something and get it over with at some point. Maybe that’s why it didn’t really matter, the end of the party-line would come when she had lost her own ride and exhausted all other options. So party on until then…….. (?) Living the good life, one day at a time.
Remembering Casey’s comments on one of her networking sites, about her favourite TV show being ‘Survivor’, and why she liked its philosophy. ‘Survival’ was what she was doing that whole time. ‘Jeff’, not the Jeff from school, but another ‘Jeff’, a different Jeff that Cindy told Casey they ‘couldn’t find’ that seemed central from the very beginning the ‘nanny’ story that Casey created when still living at the Grunds.
‘One Tree Hill’ script ideas, kidnapping theme movies the day the baby ‘disappeared’, signs/marker posts/clues/puzzles and life-philosophy from ‘Survivor’, penchant for horror movies and literature (for the heightened stimulus needed as a sociopath perhaps?). And an illusive but pivotal person named ‘Jeff’.
I happened upon this website while doing some (very) amateur sleuthing. This story boggles my mind and it seems like there is so much more to this. I’m so thrilled to have read all of your comments and, WOW! you guys are on the ball with all of your finds. I am humbled and in awe of all your brilliance. If I may add a thought that has been bugging me. I have a tendency to analyze cliches that roll off peoples tongues. I love to find the origins of the cliches meaning. I like to say cliches only if I understand the meaning myself. Casey”s comment of “In my gut, she’s close to home.” I have read that there is a possibility that Casey is really saying “Holt” instead of “Home”. If that is the case then is there a possibility that she is saying code for “gut”? Gutter is the word that comes to mind for me. That saying “In my gut” is a cliche I wouldn’t personally use cause I don’t feel things in my gut except if I ate a spicy taco, then I really feel things in my gut:) Then again I am probably digging waaaay too deep on this. Listening to Casey talk, she does have a knack for conversing in cliches. Also if I may add, it is truly disgusting the way Casey quotes the Bible so much. Excuse me lady but your parents do not need to hear you quoting the Bibles Testaments to them, “The Bible says ‘Give onto others, love thy neighbor.” Extremely sickening and annoying. Thank you all for allowing me to post here.
Blink,
When will we see part II
Possibly next week, it requires a tech build, which is in progress, but more likely week after, we shall see.
B
Blink, why do you think Cindy would ask Casey who cut Caylee’s hair last? (jail vid) Why was that important, where was Cindy going with this and was it to get a seed of an idea out there to the public? Was there some hair of Caylee’s found as if ‘cut off’ somehow perhaps that Cindy found somewhere and was alluding to by the question, covering up a little with the ‘who’s your beautician?’ query– answer: Casey did her own hair so she could have cut Caylee’s hair at home too and that might explain something that Cindy found or knew that LE found, perhaps?
Sammy, welcome– and yes, there is one video in which Casey says ‘Holt’ but previous video with her mother, she says ‘home’. Interesting.
I suspect the ‘in my gut’ cliché comes from the family using that term, also LE asked George, ‘what does your gut tell you?’, and I think I remember Richard Grund using the same term. It’s probably just a common term. It is strange that Cindy relies on it for ‘information’, when she is the one person who wants ‘technically perfect’ postulations or she can’t answer or speculate without a question being clarified, specified, and de-typo-ified. Sort of flies in the face of how she thinks, to admit using a ‘gut feeling’.
I think it’s just a way to speculate on something, put a theory out there, like the ‘gut feeling’ so to speak, of a psychic. Just a cliché for intuition for whatever reason, vs facts.
and YES, about the bible quotes, bringing up the topic of Casey and her bible, the jail not letting her have HER bible, LE not returning HER bible to Cindy, Casey says she reads her bible every day, read it all day on Caylee’s birthday with her head under the covers. (what? they allow flashlights in jails????
Good Christian, regular bible reader, Casey is. The bible will give her strength, but for what purpose? To continue the lies and deception now that there is NOTHING to lose by telling ALL to bring the real killer to justice NOW– why wait? Why keep the facts of her innocence secret only to cost more to taxpayers, nevermind costs to her parents emotional well-being and everyone else directly and indirectly involved from costs to Tim Miller, a man whose ethics are beyond reproach, and why do this to him personally, and to the good work of one of the most reputable volunteer missing persons search and rescue organizations? (minimally, taking time from their good work and resources to deal with the Casey issue).
Bible gives Cindy strength to understand her daughter and to ‘help’ her daughter as any parent would or should. BUT, what is really ‘helping’ Casey? Will liars caught up with a serious criminal charge, be more willing to continue, push the envelope with lies and deception and avoidance and stubborness (in the name of ‘strength’) when those close to them help them along, support what they are doing to themselves and to others even when coming clean now, is in the best interests of everyone, certainly Casey above all. What if the parents STOP NOW, allowing/faciliatating/kid-glove-handling Casey?
Or does the defense team, Baez with self-serving interests in a huge ‘media case’, and Lyon with her own agenda, albeit with a ‘public interest’ as part of her agenda (dp challenge related), take precedence. Is Casey being ‘used’ by all around her still?
Blink, my hat is off to you for all the many hours you set aside in your search for justice.
Alongside everyone else I can’t wait for Part II, but in the meantime I’ll read and remain continually impressed by all the thoughtful analysis and informed research efforts put forth at your site.
TY Rita
B
why are some people so sure that casey would know how bad the smell would get and that you wouldnt be able to get that smell out – I am twice her age and didnt know that, i would have assumed that once you get rid of what ever was smelling that you could clean it up and there must be some way to clean it up now that i think about it, we have a friend who committed suicide in his car, and I know for a fact his brother drives that same car now.
To imabluehead. Hey I’ve been thinking about caseys statement in a jh call where she says “I was fng arrested on a WHIM. today. So I looked up WHIM in the urban dictionary. Found def of whim as an internet forum term to send a “private” mssg or “whim” someone. Didn’t casey tell le that she received a call from a “orivate” number around noon on 7/15 send spoke to caylee. Hmmmmmm very thougt provoking.
It’s possible that casey herself did not decide in time whether she was going to go back and get her car or not. She may not have known the smell was just going to get worse, may have thought it would air out with some time, maybe just playing it by ear and seeing what opportunities presented themselves. Live for today, worry about tomorrow, tomorrow.
Thank you, Riddlemethis, for explaining the difference between a registered letter and a certified letter. Thank you also for pointing out that the Anthonys do not have a curb mailbox or a mailbox anywhere on the front of the house.
After a Google search, I believe I have found the location of the Anthony’s mailbox. The clue was in Kiomarie’s July 19 interview (page 10):
Kiomarie: And then um, Bailey lives . . . oh gees, it’s right next to the mailbox. It’s the pink house is I guess you could say.
OCSO: Same street Hopespring Drive?
Kiomarie: Same street, it’s about maybe two or three houses away from Casey’s house.
Kiomarie was referring to her friend Bailey Dickens, who lives at 4913 Hopespring Drive. The OC public property records website photo shows a house with pink gables and a pink garage door. The house is three houses to the north of the Anthony house (same side of the street).
A Google Map search of 4913 Hopespring Drive (satellite view, enlarged) shows a long, narrow, dark row of objects directly across the street from Bailey Dickens’s house. So that is where the Anthony’s mailbox is located.
George mentioned in one of his interviews that he and Caylee would sometimes go to get the mail together. I didn’t understand why that would involve more than walking to the end of the driveway until your post, Riddle.
XXXXXXXXXXX
I found the following on the USPS website:
Signing for Mail
Some pieces of mail require a signature from the recipient at the time of delivery. This includes items sent with Express Mail, Certified Mail, COD, Insured Mail (over $200), Registered Mail, Return Receipt, and Signature Confirmation.
Recipient Responsibilities
When you sign for a piece of mail, you acknowledge delivery. The Postal Service’s liability ends when you sign for the mail. You may ask the letter carrier for the sender’s name and address before you accept the mail. You may not open the mail, but you may look at it as long as the letter carrier is holding it before you choose to sign for it.
Delivery If Recipient Is Not Home
If no one is home when the letter carrier attempts delivery, the letter carrier will leave a notice and return the item to the Post Office. Check the notice for specific instructions or call 1•800•222•1811 to have the mail redelivered. If the sender has not asked for Restricted Delivery, the carrier may deliver the mail to anyone who receives mail at that address.
XXXXXXXXXXXX
The USPS information merely says the carrier will leave a notice. There is nothing specific about a postcard.
Perhaps the carrier makes an attempt to reach a resident for three successive days (Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday), and then after getting no answer again on Friday, simply stuck a notice on the front door. Cindy and George claimed the notice was dated July 11, which would have been that Friday.
And it could also be that Johnson’s didn’t get the letter to the PO on Monday, July 7. The impression I got from reading Simon Burch’s transcript is that Johnson’s makes every effort to bleed every penny they can out of the saps whose cars are towed. Johnson’s picks up $20 per day in gravy money for every day a car sits on their lot, so there is no incentive for them to alert the owner quickly. $300 of that $466.78 bill was for daily storage.
When Nicole Lett, the office worker at Johnson’s, was interviewed by OCSO on July 24, she provided six documents to LE relating to the Pontiac:
A handwritten private property tow form signed by Catherine Sanchez dated 6-30
A Tag Talk motor vehicle information print-out dated 6-30
A handwritten OCSO vehicle impound form dated 6-30
A photocopy of the Pontiac’s title and George’s FL DL that George provided on 7-15
A handwritten bill itemizing the charges dated 7-15
A handwritten removal payment receipt dated 7-15 at 13:55 hours (1:55pm)
Nicole Lett did not provide a single document showing that the certified letter had been send on Monday, July 7. She described the Florida statute that allows the towing company four days to send the letter, and she described Johnson’s automated system that is supposed to kick out the letter on the fourth day, but she did not provide any documentation to show that the letter had, in fact, been printed on July 7 (there was no copy of the letter in the documentation she provided) nor did she provide a receipt from the USPS showing that Johnson’s paid $35 for the certified letter. Surely Johnson’s keeps the receipts for those certified letters, and they should have had a receipt in the file for the Pontiac showing what day the letter had been taken to the PO.
All the paperwork for that certified letter should be obtained from the USPS because IMO, it’s just as necessary to see when Johnson’s took the letter to the PO as it is to see what day the postal carrier left the notice for the Anthonys. Just because the law says towing companies have four days to send letters of notification doesn’t mean those towing companies are in compliance with the law.
If Cindy and George were being truthful that the notice was stuck to the front door and if the notice was an official USPS notice, then obviously leaving a sticker notice instead of a postcard notice is an option, perhaps is even SOP for that area given the mailbox set-up. In that case, the front door would be the logical place to leave the sticker IMO because if it were left on the garage door, there would be the danger that the resident would engage the automatic door opener before seeing the sticker notice, and the sticker could get pulled off as the door rolled up into the garage.
The Anthonys’ front door is set in an alcove, so I can understand why they wouldn’t have seen the notice on the front door until they were in the front yard and looking directly into the alcove.
XXXXXXXXXXX
As I was reading though Nicole Lett’s interview and checked the Johnson’s documents in the discovery, I did notice that George paid the bill on July 15 at 1:55pm. Nicole Lett was asked by the detective how much time passed between George’s first visit alone and his second visit with Cindy, and she replied, “I want to say probably about a couple of hours.”
Since the time-stamp on the payment receipt is 1:55pm, Nicole’s memory was that George had first visited around noon, and that jives with his testimony that he left the house around 11am, went to pay a utility bill and maybe his cell phone bill before going to the PO to get the certified letter.
Nicole Lett also told LE that during George’s first visit to the towing lot, he asked her where the car had been picked up, and she said she told him. That pretty much clears up the mystery of how George was able to tell Simon Burch during the second visit to Johnson’s that he knew the car had been towed from Amscot.
1460 Bluewillow
When Cindy was interviewed by the FBI on July 30, agent Scott Bolin tried to explain to Cindy that Casey was giving “clues” that were leading away from the real answers. He said Casey was giving addresses that she knew and was familiar with but that didn’t necessarily have anything to do with the situation. He said that is what people do when they’re caught in uncomfortable and compromising situations – they pull together information about things that they know and twist and turn them around.
I agree with you that Cindy has made the situation worse, but I don’t agree that Casey would have told the truth by now if Cindy, George, and Lee had rejected Casey’s obvious lies and insisted that she tell the truth. By supporting the idea that Casey is innocent, George, Cindy, and Lee have made it easier for Casey to insist that she’s innocent, but even without their support, IMO Casey would be claiming to be a victim herself.
Nothing in Casey’s actions or behavior indicate that she intended to abandon the car or hope that it would be stolen IMO. She had no idea that she wouldn’t be able to clean it up and get rid of the smell. If her intent was to have the car stolen – she certainly would have made it much easier to steal (i.e., abandon it in a remote parking lot with the key and the doors unlocked). She didn’t do that. She left it somewhere where there was regular foot traffic, view from windows and fully intended to clean it and drive it again. She had no other vehicle and no prospects for another vehicle. She needed to get the car at some point and clean it up but she was just either lazy or didn’t have the ‘right’ opportunity. I agree with all posters who say that the simplest explanation is most likely the right one when it comes to this girl. She lives moment to moment and makes it up as she goes along. The best thing you could say is that she has a pretty good memory of the lies she has told already – but not perfect memory. Instant gratification is what she’s all about.
silverspnr
I am sure you are aware that Cindy’s “timeline” interview was in two parts because they didn’t finish during the first interview. The first part was on August 1 and the second part was on August 4. I quoted upthread her mention of the resumes to OCSO in her August 4 interview. I’ll provide it again.
From Cindy’s August 4 OCSO interview, page 50:
Cindy: This was in her work bag, the bag, there was no clothing bag, was her work bag that had Amy’s resumes in there cause it had an envelope with Amy’s resumes. Casey had a lanyard that had Universal Studios ID, it was her original one from when she worked at Kodak.
Blink,
Love this site.Have been reading alot about this case and have enjoyed your articles very much.Keep up the good work and thanks.
I am a grandmother that cannot understand Cindy.I think she is very involved in cover-up but not murder.She knows Casey is going to throw her under the bus.She is playing a game with her daughter……..because she knows what Casey is capable of doing.
IMO..Casey will blame Cindy to cast doubt and C & G will turn on her at trial if it goes that far.
PS.WAITING PATIENTLY FOR PART 2.LOL
1470 Kleat
I think you’re confused about the timeline.
Casey ran out of gas on June 27 and was picked up at Amscot.
Casey used Tony’s car from June 30-July 5.
Casey was without a car on July 6 and 7.
Casey borrowed Amy’s car from July 8-15.
I don’t understand where you think Cindy would have gotten Amy’s phone number. None of Casey’s old friends knew Amy. George and Cindy did not know the last names or addresses of JP, Ricardo, Amy, Tony or Tony’s roommates.
Amy had the camera sent to Amy Huizenga at the Anthonys’ Hopespring address, so unless they called the shipper and asked for any personal information the camera shop had for Amy Huizenga (not likely to be given to a stranger), the camera package was not going to help. Plus they apparently refused the package so they would not have had an opportunity to do even that.
1478 ELMOSMOMMY,
She couldn’t clean it up.
The smell was getting worse.
Randie post #1468 will show you there are clean up services that need to be called in, to sufficiently remove stains/odors on the surroundings of decomposing bodies.
I believe Casey went to buy the gas can with Amy, because AMY suggested it so Casey just went along, I don’t believe she ever thought going over to Amys house that day, she would be truckin down to Target to buy one, because the day before Amy told her that her gas can was in storage. I believe she just showed up at Amy’s house to hang out with her for the day.
I believe she went to check on the car after she left Amy’s, like she had been doing everyday.
She could have locked the car for a few reasons, automatic reaction, confused in the moment, not obviously left to be stolen.
George A. mentioned in his interview the car was left a mess, clothes all over …
She didn’t take anything out of the car because I don’t think she ever thought the car was going to be handled by the cops, which is why she did leave incriminating evidence in the car. IMO She thought the car was going to be stolen by someone to use/sell for parts or a joyride. Either way it would be out of her hands to deal with, and I don’t think she wanted to deal with the car anymore, if she did, she would’ve handled it and not watched it for 3 days.
Remember, we’re not talking about the sharpest knife in the draw.
Text messages to Amy from Casey …
0884 14076199286 06/29/08 10:25:20AM (GMT-4)(Casey Text Amy): Can I borrow you and your gas can today?
0886 14076199286 06/29/08 11:24:33AM (GMT-4)(Casey Text Amy): Shit. I forgot
After this first text Amy informed Casey her gas can was in storage.
Amy H. interview with LE
10 AH: Uhm, uhm, I, because I remember looking at it and I think it was the 28th that she
11 asked me. It was either the 28th or…it was before she showed up, but it was not
12 the same day as her telling me about the animal or that she had run out of gas.
13 Uhm, so I was like, “Why don’t we , we’ll just go to Target. We’ll buy a gas can.”
14 EE: The 30th?
15 AH: On the 30th. That you know, and you can just use it. It’s never a bad thing to
16 have a gas can. Even if I have some I can always use another one. You know,
17 you can use it and then just give it back to me. Done and done. So we went to
18 Target probably between eleven and one-ish that day. It was early in the day. I
19 don’t remember exactly when but I’m pretty sure it was between somewhere
20 around that time. Uhm, bought a gas can…
21 EE: In, in the Jeep?
22 AH: In the Jeep. Yeah (affirmative), she drove and she …
23 EE: Tony’s Jeep?
24 AH: Yeah (affirmative). That whole week, even when I could drive, for some reason
25 she wanted to drive Tony’s car. Even every time I offered to drive she was like,
1 “No, no, I’ll just take Tony’s car.” Uhm, which I thought was weird because it
2 wasn’t her car, but whatever.
3 EE: Now you say she basically, you got the gas can. You go back to your place.
4 She leaves with the gas can?
5 AH: No. She I’m pretty sure hung out with me until I left for work. Uhm….
6 EE: Most of the day?
7 AH: Yeah (affirmative)
8 EE: When’d you leave for work?
9 AH: Uh, either five or six. It depends on when I was scheduled that day. I’m pretty
10 sure she was with me until I went to work. I was so much clearer about all these
11 things like a week ago.
Silver made some excellent points …
Per Silver 1466
For those of you who believe Casey intended to go back and get the car:
Whether it was at Amscot, or somewhere/somehow else– the fact is that at some point, she HAD to get rid of that car. The decomp odor in the trunk was not going to go away; to the contrary, it was destined–by scientific principles–to get progressively worse.
June 25, 2008-Casey first texts Amy about the bad smell.
June 26, 2008-Casey again texts Amy abotu that the bad smell. It had gotten “worse”.
June 27, 2008-Casey leaves car at Amscot/has Tony pick her up/and despite all the gas can stuff, never retrieves to vehicle.
The evidence that shows she didn’t intend to retrieve it IS THAT SHE NEVER RETRIEVED IT (even though she had DAYS to do so, thanks to Amscot’s liberal internal policy).
In any event, if she had retrieved it as you believe she intended, don’t you agree that she would have just as quickly learned/concluded that she had to rid herself of it?? I’m not understanding why anyone believes she could continue to use the car in that state.
I don’t know what the support is for the theory that George and Cindy were planning to rent a car for Casey because I don’t see any evidence of that in the discovery.
Will Waters and Casey met on July 4 and communication between the two was heavy up until her arrest. Will Waters’s cell messages are not in the discovery that I have seen (during his LE interview, he was told LE would want to retrieve his text messages at some point so maybe LE has them).
We have some text messages from Casey’s cell phone, but no outgoing messages. There were 29 text messages exchanged between Will Waters to Casey on July 15:
7/15 at 8:54am Text from Casey to Will Waters: [Message not available]
7/15 at 8:54am Text from Will Waters to Casey: Good morning cutie. Y cause you have 2 give amys car back. Whats wrong with yours. You know I can pretty much fix anything.
7/15 at 8:56am Text from Casey to Will Waters: [Message not available]
7/15 at 9:00am Text from Will Waters to Casey: New cars are swell. So sorry 2 ask or bug about it but what the heck do I have 2 do 2 get some time with Casey again or do we just become myspace texting
7/15 at 9:00am Text from Will Waters to Casey: buddys 4 years and become old and 4 get what u look like
7/15 at 9:03am Text from Will Waters to Casey: Or just not ruem our friendship cause you are taken
7/15 at 9:05am Text from Will Waters to Casey: You cant hert my feelings i lost that a while ago. I bet we could have fun it seems like u like doing everything I do. Oh we went mudding lst night it rocked
7/15 at 9:23am Text from Casey to Will Waters: [Message not available]
7/15 at 11:21am Text from Casey to Will Waters: [Message not available]
7/15 at 11:27am Text from Will Waters to Casey: Nope nope nope I do not think I can leave. Man and it sucks I want 2 c u 2. If I would have known I wouldnt hang out with 4 so long I would have tryed
7/15 at 11:27am Text from Will Waters to Casey: 2 squeeze more tackles n more fun on those 3 days
7/15 at 11:28am Text from Casey to Will Waters: [Message not available]
7/15 at 11:38am Text from Will Waters to Casey: Well at least I am good 4 something
7/15 at 11:52am Text from Will Waters to Casey: I have a question
7/15 at 11:28am Text from Casey to Will Waters: [Message not available]
7/15 at 12:00pm Text from Casey to Will Waters: [Message not available]
7/15 at 12:05pm Text from Casey to Will Waters: [Message not available]
7/15 at 12:14pm Text from Will Waters to Casey: You said shoot whats wrong?
7/15 at 12:15pm Text from Casey to Will Waters: [Message not available]
7/15 at 12:24pm Text from Will Waters to Casey: ll the time. I can hang out with u as a friend. Just one that is attracted 2 u or r u just worried and its not right
7/15 at 12:24pm Text from Will Waters to Casey: I thank you 4 your comment on myspace. But y did u write that if I nag u all the time 2 hang out n we never get 2. I am not going to lie u r n my thoughts a
7/15 at 12:26pm Text from Casey to Will Waters: [Message not available]
7/15 at 12:26pm Text from Casey to Will Waters: [Message not available]
7/15 at 12:26pm Text from Will Waters to Casey: B 4 I 4 get we are having a water balloon fight n keg party soon
7/15 at 12:27pm Text from Casey to Will Waters: [Message not available]
7/15 at 12:27pm Text from Will Waters to Casey: Oh cool that’s awesome no biggie
7/15 at 1:34pm Text from Casey to Will Waters: [Message not available]
7/15 at 9:12pm Text from Will Waters to Casey: U ok
7/15 at 9:36pm Text from Will Waters to Casey: Well if things r cool b safe n all that jazz
****
Perhaps it was Casey’s 8:54am text message to Will in which she said she was going to have to get a rental car. It’s clear from the first few messages Will sent to her that they were discussing cars and Casey’s need for one, but in Will’s 9:00am message, he referred to a “new car” not a rental.
The reference to a new car (not a rental) is consistent with what Casey told Troy Brown four or five days before Cindy found Casey at Tony’s apartment. Troy flew out to Puerto Rico on July 11 to meet the others, and he had been asking Casey if she was going to join them. This is the relevant interview section from Troy’s July 25 OCSO interview:
OCSO: You have a phone conversation [with Casey] on either the 10th or 11th you believe?
Troy: Uh, yes. Uhm . . .
OCSO: Uh, that . . .
Troy: . . . regarding the trip to Puerto Rico, to see if she was still coming because uhm, she would, she never told us for sure if she was going. She would always continue to put it off. So uhm, I continued to ask until the day I left if she was coming or not. So that’s what those . . .
OCSO: And during that conversation, she made reference about her car?
Troy: Correct. Uhm, she made reference to one of the uh, she made reference to several reasons why she couldn’t go. Uhm, two of which were the fact that she needed, she was trying to find a place to live. And she was uhm, searching for a new car.
OCSO: Did she say what was wrong with her car?
Troy: She did not.
1475 Kleat
I’m not Blink and I didn’t watch Casey’s July 22 bond hearing, but I have read that when Yuri Melich was on the stand testifying at the bond hearing, he said Caylee’s hairdresser called OCSO and claimed how she had seen bruises on Caylee’s arms and a bruise under her eye. Melich allegedly said that was the reason child services had been involved in the case.
You’d have to watch the bond hearing to verify that information.
I do know Yuri Melich, at the same July 22 bond hearing, said human head hairs similar in color and length to Caylee’s hair had been found in the trunk.
Three days later when George and Cindy saw Casey at the jail, Cindy wanted to know where Casey took Caylee for hair cuts.
Kleat, the defense has an argument (of sorts) for abandonment of the car as well as for intent to retrieve the car.
They could argue that Casey intended to abandon the car as a cry for help because she was being threatened from going to LE or her parents by the same group of evil people who had taken Caylee to teach her a lesson. Therefore, she left the car at Amscot because she wanted her parents or LE to be notified of the abandoned car and come looking for her.
Cindy has also attempted the argument that the same person who took Caylee took the car away from Casey and left it at Amscot and that Casey didn’t even know where the car was.
I believe she intended to retrieve the car. That’s what all the discovery supports (claims to friends, text messages, requests to borrow gas cans, purchase of gas can with Amy, cell pings showing her return to the area alone with the gas can, statement to Cindy that she intended to retrieve the car and had even put a note on the windshield, etc.).
As for the argument that if she wanted the car, she would have asked Tony, here is what he told OCSO on October 16:
OCSO: Takes the bags of groceries, or a bag of groceries, gets in the truck with you and you guys go right back to Sutton Place?
Tony: Yup (affirmative)
OCSO: Plans to pick the car back up, were there any made?
Tony: Uh, I am ca . . . I had talked to her about, well uh, I talked to her about it and she said that, “You know, don’t worry about it. I’ll take care of it.”” Reason why is also because I had a lot of things to do right before I was going away. I had tests I had to take. I had . . .
OCSO: Uh-hum (affirmative)
Tony: . . . you know, things I had to study for. And then I had to also pack. So you know, she said, “Don’t worry about it. I’ll take care of it when you’re away.”
Yes, the defense could argue that since she intended to retrieve the car, she had no reason to worry about the car, but there is no harm to the prosecution IMO in arguing that she was going back for the car on June 30. The fact that she was setting up an alibi for the smell days before running out of gas on June 27 is extremely damaging to Casey and indicates, in writing, her awareness of animal decomposition in her car and attempt to attribute the smell to an innocent event. Baez doesn’t have a prayer of convincing the jury that Casey truly believed the smell was coming from a dead squirrel.
Casey had only begun to complain about the smell on June 25, two days before she ran out of gas at Amscot. Up to that point, she had only taken a stop-gap action by putting the trash bag and some fabric sheets in the trunk. It is unreasonable to think that Casey had determined by June 27 that she would not be able to get rid of the smell by shampooing the trunk liner and thoroughly detailing the inside of the car. IMO she would have rolled up her sleeves and scrubbed the inside of the car thoroughly, and only if that deep-cleaning failed to get rid of the smell would she have considered ditching the car.
Silver-
Your posts add so much to this dialogue, I appreciate your input here very much.
I wouldn’t disagree that Casey might eventually have come to the conclusion the smell wasn’t going away, and she’d have had to ditch that car, take off, or otherwise do something. There are a million things she could have done otherwise (that should win the ‘stating the obvious’ post of the day) eh? And don’t we all wish she had done things differently for the sake of Caylee Marie Anthony? Rest In Peace child.
I just don’t think / believe she had gotten that far into the realization yet. And again, don’t think she WAS going to come to any realization until she was ‘in her face’ cornered with it. This is fundamental to her in every way and every action.
Again, I refer to her lack of forethought in everything else. She was the last person known to leave the car at Amscot, and she potentially left a ton of incriminating evidence in it which would only point to her (and frankly I doubt she thought of that either, nor realized what grave wax is, but the pants, and just the fact she parked the damn car right next to a dumpster, but didn’t throw anything out from the trunk (among other things) which would point to her, takes away from her ‘forethought’ IMO.
I also think it may have had to do with the car being left over a week-end, and her being able to deal with it during the coming week when others were gone and she realized she’d now have Tony’s jeep to utilize to take care of it and try to clean it up.
Further, why Amscot? why not ditch it somewhere, walk far enough away, and call a friend proclaiming it was stolen and she’d already called the cops?? Why not leave it at the airport remote parking and take a bus or other transport? Why have someone know and witness her leaving it there after she ran out of gas?? If we’re giving her this much credit for all the rest, this part makes no sense. Shiz, she didn’t call the cops for 31 days for her own daughter, she could’ve definitely floated not calling the cops over the car being missing! (She could’ve just said she thought G & C followed her and ‘picked up the car’ wherever she left it)…sheesh. Right? Orlando has a tremendous public transportation system. (Sorry, I scare myself a little when I try to think like Casey, and then sound like Cindy). I’m not defending, but just trying to logic on Casey’s constant illogic.
Seriously though, your previous posts regarding this case have given me some comfort justice will prevail. And I’m glad of what you said earlier about the MSM not presenting things as a slam dunk in the days ahead, I will keep this in mind.
I agree it’s disgusting how much time and money have been squandered on this case. I still am holding out hope for the smoking gun, be it the apodicere on the paper towels with DNA & prints from the bag, or latents on the tape, or both. Bring it on, it’s time to shut down Casey’s game and let her plead.
P.S. Scarlett #1447, I had to LOL when I saw you posted nearly the same thing I did, we must have been posting at the same time, and ElmosM, I agree. Kleat, radiogirl and all, regards. Good posts.
#1488 maura. WOW maura you can provide all this detail on the spot I am in awe. Your post just increased my curiousity about a “whim” I had. I am most interested in the 7/15 sms messages from 12pm, 12:05pm and 12/14 pm mssg you said shoot! What’s wrong? I find it interesting that casey responses from that day have not been made available yet but I can’t wait ubtil they are.
Maura,
Do you have a link to that Google pic of the mailboxes? I’d like to see it. I can tell more from it. The PO codes for type of delivery service and how it would have likely been handled partially depends on the set up. I pulled some records but the public ones are not as detailed as internal as to the type of boxes.
BTW- The ‘postcard’ is semantics. The notice the PO uses is about the size of a post card. This is used for ALL notifications; and signatures as well(except Express Mail and some C.O.D’s). There is no ‘sticky’ notice used either, they are all the same, it is called a PS 3849.
If George took the original notice left by the carrier to the PO with him, the PO will have retained it. It would have the orignal date of notice(s) and delivery date, and signature. If he did not, they would have just filled out a new one.
It’s extremely, extremely unlikely to have been attempted 3 days in a row. The carrier takes the lettter out at first, they are then almost delaying the person from receiving it if they keep taking it out and can’t deliver it.
They also can’t leave a notice and have it with them every day; the person has to be able to pick it up. Also, if it were the 10th (and I’m not buying that unless SB sent it out late), then the carrier ‘might’ write the 11th on the notice, even if it was left on the 10th, because they still have the letter with them the rest of the day, but it would have been left there on the 10th. That would depend on a couple different things though. Make sense?
The date(s) of attempt(s) is also notated on the envelope, but the Anthony’s would of course retain that. Certified letters don’t cost $35; SB is really jacking up admin fees there if that’s the case. Don’t be surprised if the Anthony’s letter carrier is subpeonaed if it’s relevant,or if he (she) saw anything else, this happens. Especially if there was contradiction in testimony.
Also S.Burch would absolutely have the record w/ the certified number on it, they have to. I wouldn’t be surprised if they waited the max days to send the notices, but would be surprised if they disregarded the time limits. This would be WAY, WAY easy to track and get them in trouble with the state. Perhaps the records are just not released by LE yet, as Blink has often mentioned, we don’t see everything.
Most small businesses send out their mail when the carrier delivers, unless it’s not ready, which is why I added the extra day to my calculations.
I can tell you from many years of former experience, overall Florida and the Orlando area have excellent delivery times within the PO service standards from across the nation, historically they consistently meet and even exceed set delivery time standards. I’m not saying an error never occurs, but if it went out Monday the 7th, there is no way I believe the first notice was Friday 7/11. If this were Chicago? maybe…Orlando …..NO WAY…nope, nope, nope.
Maura-
Never mind about the link, I just re-read, and should find it easily.
R
Riddle-
Look. I cannot PROVE that Casey ditched the car at Amscot with no intention of retrieving it, just as no one who believes she intended to retrieve it can PROVE the opposite.
The fact is, she didn’t retrieve it.
And if she had?
There is no way on earth she would have been able to sanitize the trunk/eradicate Caylee’s decomposition, and hence the putrid stench (because it was in the trunk lining/carpeting already).
She clearly made an effort before she either deliberately abandoned the car, or truly ran out of gas and intended to retrieve it.
The point, in the end, is that whether it was on June 27th, or some very soon date thereafter, there is just no way she could keep using the car.
It is one thing to abstractly discuss the stench. It is quite another to actually smell it/drive around with it/have to explain it away/deal with the flies, and then the maggots.
I don’t see how even Casey could continue to tolerate being in the car.
I am going on common sense here.
Maybe she is more of a monster than I imagine?? (she would almost have to be insane to keep using the car with that stench coming from the trunk, growing stronger, day after day after day, etc)
Maybe she really intended to get that car, but went back and opened the door, and was hit by the stench of her daughter’s remains again, and couldn’t go through with it.
I don’t know Casey.
I know something about the science of human decomposition though.
What is both intriguing –and useful–to me is the same people who believe she murdered her 34 month old baby girl, are so angered/defensive about a point that really has no bearing on the State’s burden to prove her guilt on Murder One here.
But this is a good thing.
Say I was on the prosecution team (or had their collective ear).
I would read these posts (in the same vein that very costly mock trials are used) and say to the team, “Let’s be “soft” on whether or not she intended to abandon her car, because it really makes no difference to our burden of proof.”
This site is invaluable on that level.
Yeah, Maura, watching the bond hearing might give us more insight, and there’s the grand jury– that will never come out will it? Even with a plea?
Correct Kleat, never.
B
BTW- I think this site is terrific, beyond the value it may provide to those who are tasked with the trial.
Beyond the prurient interest this case has garnered, I truly believe that the majority of folks who post here are mainly concerned with justice for a little girl who may have had an abundance of toys and sunglasses, etc, but who lived in an environment edged with jealousy, anger, rage… debt, theft, and who knows what else.
Said it before, I’ll say it again:
R.I.P. Caylee Marie
TY, Caylee, and restoring her legacy, is the sole reason I will not rest in this case until justice is done.
B
To silverspne and Randie (1467 and 1468)– thank you for the links on decomposition. I remain hopeful that Caylee’s DNA has been found in the trunk. DNA in the carpet might be able to be explained away, but the paper towels would be more difficult. This brings up another thought — there was such in depth testing of the air in the trunk, but was the carpet itself and the area beneath it ever tested for it’s chemical composition? Could they have found the actual chemical products of decomposition and just not released this information yet?
Maura LOL You must have 1000 icons on your comp. of the case, in a flash you have the info. TY for bringing back info. I hadn’t read in a while.
Riddle I think we also “laughed” at the same time.
I’m glad we can all agree to disagree with Casey either leaving her car for good, or going back for it. I’m sure the percentage has to be close to 50/50 (it can’t be just me and Silva) {smile} It’s definitely a situation that can be speculated on.
I still stand firm with her never wanting to get back in that car again, the bottom line to my conclusion is, she just couldn’t stand the stench of it. IMO Caylee would’ve been deceased for 11 1/2 days before she buried her the morning of the 27th. I think she killed her the night of the 15th, The car with the leaking decomp. fluid must’ve smelled horrific.
Maura, count me among the many who love love love your posts! So factual and well documented and logical. Like you, I believe the tow yard drags its feet to make sure its notification letters go out late, perhaps by generating them late in the day to miss the mail pickup. Just wondering, though, if it was a typo when you said a certified letter costs $35, cuz I believe they are just a little over $5. AND, you can do them from your office if you have the right envelopes/software, believe it or not, and I would imagine a joint like johnson’s be a prime candidate as it would save them from trips to the PO, but of course I don’t know fer sure.