Caylee/Casey Anthony Case: Caylees Autopsy Revelations Part I
Orlando, FL– Under heavy objection last Friday afternoon, Judge Stan Strickland denied the motion on behalf of George and Cindy Anthony to seal Caylee Marie Anthonys autopsy until their daughter Caseys capital murder trial in their granddaughters death. Late Friday afternoon, the Findings of Dr. Jan Garavaglia, Chief Medical Examiner of Orange County were released. In Part I, we explore a few of the notable findings, In Development for Part II, Blinkoncrime will be is creating an interactive 3D Model, incorporating the evidence recovery field, bone disbursement pattern, and anatomical example of the duct tape placement.
The Laundry Bag
Although the report contains a significant amount of anthropologic and forensic data, it does not contain photos or X-Rays, pursuant to the Earnhardt exclusion under Florida Law. Blinkoncrime.com will attempt to offer some observations and in some cases, correct some erroneous information that is being reported in the msm. For starters, the laundry bag picture being circulated, it is incorrect, the image to the left is the correct bag, note the dimensions are exact. The top of this bag does not cinch.
The Duct Tape
I have seen rampant speculation on the duct tape beginning around 15 minutes following the release of the report. 
There are many who believe that Casey Anthony killed her child by wrapping her nose and mouth with duct tape. Allow me to point out the report actually reflects the antithesis of this theory. First, there IS NO TAPE ON THE POSTERIOR of her skull. The only posterior placement of the tape mentioned is still located on the mandible, or face. The tape, which was actually small strips of grey cloth-based, delaminating tape is applied on top of itself, not really feasible with a live toddler. Given the findings that Caylee’s mandible stayed in almost true anatomical position, although slightly posterior and that the hair that was attached to the tape extended from the back of her head and over her head and face, it is likely Caylee was laying on her back when the tape was applied. Henkel makes 2 kinds of duct tape, one is more Industrial grade of adhesive “hot set” over cloth designed for waterproof and outdoor projects. It has not yet been disclosed which formulation was used.
The O Sign
A contributing poster at blinkoncrime gave me something to think about that had not occurred to me. I am on record stating I do believe that Casey Anthony murdered her daughter, and that she will end up pointing the finger at one or both of her parents as a defense strategy.
However, the duct tape never really fit for me. I have always believed it to be a post mortem tactic to stage a kidnapping. I do believe I may have been wrong. Very well known to medical and critical care professionals, there is something called an O effect; occurring at very near death, or shortly following death and before rigormortis sets in.
Some medical people refer to it when the person is very near death or has just died–the jaw drops open. Nothing left to hold the mandible shut. In morgue kits there is a strap that is applied around the jaw to gently close it before rigor sets in. This “O” sign can be very pronounced and unsettling to see first hand. Casey probably wasn’t aware of this and was really spooked by this silent scream and used the duct tape then put a heart sticker on it as a ________
This makes sense to me. The tape is applied in small strips across the nose and mouth areas, catching her hair in the face over the Coronal plane region. One interpretation that may be drawn is that Caylee was lying on her back, upon seeing what Casey had done to her child as evidenced by the relaxed mandible; she attempted to “fix her”. As if covering up the evidence of death on her baby would change things, complete with a heart sticker. No sooner did I arrive at this conclusion on Saturday, did I see Dr.Michael Baden appear on Geraldo Live on Sunday evening bringing up the mortuary kit issue. I am not saying this idea originated here, not that it would be the first time, but it at least tells me there is corroboration within the forensic Medical community as to the premise. The FBI report on the duct tape has not been released. One thing is certain, what I have been stating all along about Casey’s prints being on the duct tape seems foreboding. With multiple strips of tape, chances are there are several. The defense has had this report for months, is this why Casey Anthony retained Todd Macaluso?
Swim Diaper?
There are several remnants recovered that are described as a diaper or pull ip item. However, there are a few that appear to be strictly synthetic. When I read the report, my immediate reaction based on some of the coloring was that it was a “swimmie”, or disposable swim diaper. After mapping out the dimensions and a closer look, I believe it is actually referring to remnants of both a pull up, a reusable swim diaper, or swim floation/assistance device or both, as pictured here:
Paper Towels
Simply stated there is decomposition fluid on paper towels in the plastic garbage bag found in her trunk that came from Tony Lazzarros apartment.
In my opinion, Casey ripped the bag Caylees remains were in when she moved her body into or out of the trunk to her final resting place in the woods off Suburban. The stain in the trunk, emitting the ungodly stench, was the target of the paper towels after Casey returned to TonE’s apartment. She brought the paper towels and garbage bag out with her in an attempt to clean it up and realized almost immediately it was an excerise in futility. Immediately following are her comments to Amy about George Anthony borrowing her car, and the infamous squirrel stowaway story.
Her Clothes
In contrast to only a stitching remnant with a manufactures tag left of her shirt, Caylees shorts were found nearly 2 ft ft away from the laundry bag, in relatively good condition. Based on the reports findings of trunk and femural animal activity and the corresponding recovery area, I am of the opinion that it is not possible that Caylee was wearing those shorts when she was dumped in the woods. Frankly, given the fact that the actual color stripe pattern was discernable versus the condition of the other items, I am suspect Casey was in those woods more than once. How do you get only the collar of a shirt remaining and her shorts completely intact with no noted damage? Lastly, Caylees shoes if she were wearing any, were not recovered.
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wow, I am in awe of some people here who can rationalize, explain, back it up with facts. I have read so much but cant retain what I read and where I saw it , but some people here are so good at it. Maura , what kind of work do you do ? you are awesome girl, at providing the facts and knowing what you are talking about , and putting it down so well. This is an awesome site with actual good thinking people , not just rants and raves. Thanks Blink, you deserve lots of credit too and I am most glad you have this awesome site.
TY, Im lucky they let me hang out with them, I know what you mean
B
Steadychick #1498
Testing was conducted on air and carpet from Casey’s car. The carpet tests indicates the “presence of the five key major compounds associated with human decay and rotting.”
One link I found interesting:
http://www.officer.com/web/online/investigation/the-body-in-the-trunk/18$45105
I am unknown to new informaiton coming forward or being released. I too wait patiently.
Silver, I was like you thinking we would be a hung jury on agreeing about the car incident. I have noticed it seems to be a gender thinking mindset, however. The women think she plans to clean that car up….the men say no way she junked it…lol
Thank you for answering my question about the trial. I bungled the next question on lab results. I understand the ‘junk science’ of the Tenn. lab results probably being inadmissable. But, on Thursday the defense asked the judge to not allow the release of lab results in the latest batch of evidence to the public. Since I am anxiously awaiting the results of the ‘death circle’ in the trunk & those paper towels; not to mention possible finger prints on the duct tape….. & whether there is a partial roll of duct tape recovered with matches to the strips on Caylee’s body….I would love to hear your views on if Baez has a leg to stand on to stop the lab results from being released to the public?
My thoughts on Casey as I shake my head at her “DORM”
1. She knew she needed 1/2 credit to graduate high school since her Jr. year. According to George’s FBI interview the school had tried time & again to get Casey to take it. Then, per George he & Cindy tried every way they could to get her to take the 1/2 credit, take her GED, whatever to get her diploma….That night the LE grilled her at Universal (after walking to within steps of “Her office”)…she admitted her lies but refused to fess up to not leaving Caylee with a baby sitter….FINALLY…LE decides to do the good cop switch on her & the hard grilling detective leaves the room & she sits right there and tells the “good cop” that she attended college for a year and a half!
2. She’s 7 months pregnant and denies it. No bonding with the unborn infant in her body…(I’ve not been a labor & delivery nurse, but they taught us in school to always document the mother bonding with the infant..). So, we also hear from George at this FBI interview (and forget who held the child first, that’s not important here)…that Caylee would be in another room & run to he or Cindy vs Casey. The mother-child bond was not there.
3. Casey leads Jesse to believe he is the father (he was even at the hospital when she was born)…until Jesse has a DNA done!
4. George was not living in the home what over a third of this baby’s life? Yet, to me he is the only one I have really see show true love for Caylee.
5. NO job..she had no job! (yet living the lie of even dressing & leaving home to go to the danged job)!
6. Stealing from everyone. George even tells FBI that Cindy caught her because she used checks at times out of her Mom’s acct. AND tells FBI he & Cindy seldom used checks they depended on ATM & ONLINE BILLPAY.
7. I was so struck from day one of watching the first jailhouse video’s how Casey kept making catty remarks to them about being stuck behind bars and unable to help Caylee. She BLAMED them. Go back & listen it is over & over & over.
8. Ok, enough except for one of the most telling aspects about Casey & the world she lives in in her own mind. Talking to her parents with her hands and legs shackled her parents ask about her living conditions and she describes her jail cell….”My DORM is…about 4 foot from where the officers are….” Someone else listen I am sure this is what she said.
We can’t get inside Casey’s head. We can’t fathom that the detective the very first night with Casey said the truth about Casey. “It can be one of two things” (IIRC)…and the second contained words to the effect of a coldhearted malicious monster.
You got me on this line of thought, Silver. I pray that baby did not suffer. I think that is why some of us come here to read & to try to descern…because to think she did is what tears at us.
Searching for the bond hearing videos– there are links to the videos of Cindy, George, Melich, and Lee, but those links go to dead ends at MyFoxOrlando. Still, they have to be there, some stories are deleted it seems as not all links work.
However, here’s one article on the bond hearing, for anyone else, like me, missed a lot of the early local Orlando articles: http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/Casey_Anthony_Bond_Set_500000
Will post the bond video links if and when I find them– and if they work.
1500 Suz
Johnson’s does apparently generate the certified letters in their office and send them out with the daily mail (I assume when the postal carrier comes in to deliver).
SB: And I explained to her that per Florida Statutes uhm, on the fourth day that the vehicle is here we’re required by law to send out a certified letter to the registered owner of the vehicle. Uhm, we have the information of who the vehicle belongs to and, and uh, our computer system uhm, automatically generates those letters and they’re sent out you know, with our mail, certified mail, as this one was. And however four days from the date the vehicle came in would have been in July the Fourth.
GW: Right.
SB: Uhm, it puts a day in it there. And I explained to her that you know, the, the Post Office is out of our control. Looking at the calendar we figured out that due to the July the Fourth holiday, and then the weekend, the upcoming weekend uhm, was the reason that the letter took so long to get to her.
I don’t recall where the $35 figure came from other than George or Cindy talking about it, but I could be remembering incorrectly. Maybe the $35 was for a general administrative fee.
Kleat bond hearing stuff on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=anthony+bond+hearing&search_type=&aq=0&oq=anthony+bond
1493 Riddle
Thank you again for the explanations. After I wrote the comment about locating the Anthony mailbox, it occurred to me that maybe the postal carrier left the notice on the door to prove that he or she had been at the house and attempted to contact a resident. That sort of makes sense to me given the way the mailboxes for all the Hopespring houses seem to be clustered in one location. And maybe the carrier (as you mentioned in another comment) was just too lazy to go back to the mailbox to leave the notice.
I live in northeast Florida, and in my subdivision all the houses have curb mailboxes. When I lived in Connecticut, everyone had a mailbox attached to the house. I’ve never seen a neighborhood like the Anthonys’ in which the mailboxes are clustered in one section of the street.
You may be correct that OCSO has the receipt for the certified letter but I am at a loss to explain why it is being withheld from the public discovery given that the other Pontiac-towing documents were released last August.
Nicole Lett did say that the letter only includes charges through day four. So even if the letter went out on July 7, the charges were only calculated up through July 4. That was one of George’s complaints during his FBI interview – the letter stated the total recovery charge as $230-something, but when he talked to Lett on July 15, she said the bill was $466.78 because of daily lot fees (11 days x $20 per day plus tax).
I agree that it would be very easy for Johnson’s to get into trouble for taking more time than the law allows them, but I won’t believe the certified letter for the Pontiac was in the USPS system on July 7 until I see a receipt. Ditto for believing the notice left for the Anthonys was dated July 11.
Blink – patience is wearing thin waiting for your next article! When? Please…
My dearest readers- I am working on 3 other cases as well, working..
B
#1504 j.g. WHOA there dude.”LOL. Im a girl and I posted a couple weeks ago upthread I thought casey left the car at amscot deliberatly.I still think she intended for that car to be found by her family first. In any case I think the prosecution will win on that argument should the defense try to spin it.
Yuri Melich’s Bond Hearing Testimony (June 22, 2008)
It’s in five parts, and this is only the link to part 1. The other four parts are also under MuzikmanWS’s YouTube account if the link doesn’t work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuuTH7GxFyk
1482 Maura
Yes, I didn’t mean to suggest I thought Casey would have told the truth, but rather the truth would have been easier to deduce if Cindy had not interfered, removing evidence, covering for lies, adding confusion, etc, etc.
I understand that at this point the Anthonys are actually trying to deny that the body found was little Caylee.
I don’t see Casey ever coming clean because being the only one who knows what happened gives her something she has power over; other people want to know, she’s the only one with the answers. I suspect she’d prefer to keep it that way.
Sure can’t wait for Blink’s observations in the next article!
Oh and for anyone who likes to think of casey as just a silly panicked nitwit who drove aimlessly around in the coffin of her murdered baby without a plan! Forgetaboutit. That girl just SHOUTS cold calculating malice and she had a plan.
Can anyone explain why they are pushing to have the fraud case with Casey before trial?
JG #1503
Just to clear this up!
I didn’t say the Tenn lab results ARE “junk science”. I said that is what the defense will argue in a pre-trial motion to preclude the testing results at trial.
A while back I made reference to the fact that Florida follows the Frye Rule (Frye is a legal decision which sets the standard for the judge regarding admissibility of “novel” scientific evidence). There is a subsequent case, Daubert, that the Federal Courts all follow (they are bound by the most recent U.S. Supreme Court decision on such matters), and actually that the overwhelming majority of the states have adopted. Very few states still follow Frye, and Florida is one of them.
I am not a betting person, so I won’t guess what Judge Strickland will rule on that. Personally, I think that testing and the results should come into evidence under Frye. However, Strickland seems to be erring on the side of caution regarding preserving Casey’s right to a fair trial at this point, and that may extend to keeping the record as clean as possible for evidentiary matters on appeal. (if he lets it in, it’s an automatic argument for a defense appeal– I know people often don’t understand this, but you can’t just appeal because you feel like it– there are only certain issues which are subject to appeal, mainly those concerning the admission of evidence, the content of jury instructions, etc)
More to say, but have to run for a large group mountain bike ride.
OH. And BTW– I am a WOMAN, so that blows the idea that there was a gender-based idea about whether or not Casey was going back for that car!!
Makes a Grand Curtsy, and heads out the door=)
Lol, nicely done. However, I do believe it will come in, it is not the first case in Fla to use it.
B
Maura, thanks girl!!
Recent discussions make me rethink this car thing and remember how lack of forethought on Casey’s part could mean that she thought she would pick the car up again but didn’t act to make that happen. She must have known cameras were there, maybe she didn’t think about the cameras until later on.
Silverspnr– great post, thanks for your legal perspective once again.
1503 Comment by j.g. — July 18, 2009 @ 10:24 pm
Silver, I was like you thinking we would be a hung jury on agreeing about the car incident. I have noticed it seems to be a gender thinking mindset, however. The women think she plans to clean that car up….the men say no way she junked it…lol
{raising hand}
Another woman here!
Bluewillow, do you have a source for this? That sounds like a crazy position for them to take after they cremated the child’s remains.
“… at this point the Anthonys are actually trying to deny that the body found was little Caylee.”
We know they have challenged the DNA for identity of Caylee from the single hair in the trunk with the black band on it. What were they doing cremating remains if this was not the correct child’s identity (and going against Casey’s wishes in doing so)?
Of course, they were told they ‘could’ cremate the remains and so it’s really not their fault as their typical blame game would be repeating itself once again.
Maura, we know that Johnson’s generates the LETTERS in their office (picture a mail merge from a database to a letter template, where it just populates the DMV/car-owner info into a form letter)—that’s what Burch was describing. What I am saying is that if you or I wanted to send a CERTIFIED letter, we would have to go to the USPS and stand in line and get that green thingy they attach to the letter, pay the $5.25 extra, and of course get a receipt. But companies like Johnson’s that send out loads of certified mail can actually buy the special envelopes and software that allow them to generate legitimate certified mail without the trip to the PO(google “certified mail software and envelopes”). Here’s a snippet from the USPS site:
snip
“Electronic return receipts requested at the time of mailing also are available in bulk to mailers that print their own Certified Mail™, Registered Mail™, COD, or Insured Mail (over $200) labels. Bulk delivery information can be obtained in CD-ROM or signature extract file formats. For additional information, see Publication 80, Bulk Proof of Delivery Program.”
snip
Otherwise certified mail couldn’t go out with their regular pickup, as you and I surmise happened (“ok, the mail just came, go ahead and generate those certs! bwa ha ha”), and they would have to trek down to the PO each and every day to do their certs. The software can of course generate an electronic receipt, so I don’t know why we haven’t seen that in the discovery.
boo, lol, I actually do think casey was a panicked nitwit who did not plan ahead, as evidenced by the many things others have stated above (did not have a plausible story ready for the folks or the cops, left evidence with the body and in the car that tie to her, etc.) I used to drive myself crazy trying to figure why she didn’t seem to have planned what to do with the body—but then I read that stuff about sociopaths and how they simply do not plan ahead, and bingo! As soon as I let go of planning, all of casey’s actions made sense. She just wings it moment to moment. I don’t think she’s an evil genius codetalker/clue giver, as much fun as it would be to have her to be a Gotham City criminal mastermind who left deliberate riddles for us to solve before giving us the next clue (tho she did leave us plenty of stuff to sort out, which is why this case is interesting). I DO think she is nuts, tho. They really should have gone with that defense, they would have TONS of supporting evidence there.
Just to be clear, I don’t mean she NEVER plans ahead—she makes beautiful fakes emails and work schedules and that stuff. Maybe it is just during her bigger ticket criminal activities (stealing from grandma and Amy, and now killing) that she goes into the non-planning-ahead mode.
1518 Suz
I wrote in that comment that Johnson’s generates the certified letters in the office, not just letters. And I posted the section of SB’s interview in which he said the certified letters go out with their daily mail.
That comment may not have been clear enough, but I am in agreement with you that Johnson’s has the equipment and materials to print the green thingy in the office so that Johnson’s does not have to physically take the letter to a PO branch to have the letter certified.
At any rate, given what Riddle has written, the documentation I want to see is probably at the PO branch that handled the Anthonys’ letter. Since it’s likely that Johnson’s generates their own certified mail labels, they could have printed the label on Monday, July 7 but not given that letter to the USPS until later in the week. I want to know what day that letter was entered into the USPS system.
j.g., thanks to you too, for the bond hearing YouTube links. (duh– why do I forget to try Youtube!! )
(ps, on the gender of posters– I’m not changing genders if I rethink my position about the car!!
(but Casey may have had nebulous ‘plans’ to get the car– not ‘real’ plans, afterall, she could have retrieved it. Even if she attempted to go back into it, she might have not wanted to put herself through that smell and bother and then what to do with it, how to get back from wherever she did something with it. She’s a risk taker, hits a wall and makes a 90 degree turn and moves on, so someone has suggested about her behaviour– maybe this is the case here too).
Will surely be interesting to see what the Amscot and other business surveillance videos/photos have to indicate about activities, not just Casey, but remember that Cindy owned a distinctly decorated vehicle with a Panda in her back window. So much info might be from those cameras, and other Amscot staff interviews. There’s the Target check out from the day Amy and Casey purchased the gas can which would give clues as to what Casey was wearing on that day, fwiw. And how many other Target or stores with video surveillance at the entrance and cashiers, are there that would have been revealed from Cindy’s credit card records of June and July?
What we don’t know yet….
KLeat – not sure where I heard it , might have been on CNN , not sure but in the past 3 days I heard, the anthonys now say the body wasnt caylee – sorry I am not more definite with my memory – I didnt put much weight to the statement because that would seem impossible , but i did hear this line :
at this point the Anthonys are actually trying to deny that the body found was little Caylee.”
I just wanted to backup bluewillow that this is being said
oops meant HLN not CNN
An offshoot of watching the bond hearing clips raises something more about the Lee and Casey relationship that we all have heard and perhaps seen first hand, is some special relationship between them.
There is something that strikes me as odd now as I watched this bond hearing for the first time (as far as I remember) so getting a fresh listen:
Baez was questioning Lee and had just established that Lee moved away from the family home Jan. 2006 as his job provided a place to live.
Baez continues….
“…. have you maintained contact with your family? …close?”
Lee responds….
“Absolutely. The contact will be whether it’s…ahh… in today’s day and age through the internet with Myspace or just through text messages, that’s how primarily I communicate with my sister. And ah… will try to visit as often as I can, depending on work and personal obligations.”
Note the method of communication Lee has with Casey– ‘text messages’/'MYSPACE’ primarily.
Lee goes on to answer Baez’s next question of ‘How close are you with your sister?’
“Uhm… its easy to summarize that as saying that her and I know that uhm, that we can confide in each other on things on a level where we don’t feel like we would have to be obligated to share it with anybody else and… that is just because of the relationship that her and I have.
That uhm, we connect on a level above it. Anybody else will love each other uncondiionally and we can tell each other things that we may not feel comfortable telling anybody else, even our own family members”.
(we know that Lee is sitting facing his sister while he answers her lawyer’s questions so we know he is also reassuring her this is what their relationship is, at least at that point, if not before)
Lee also goes on to say he visits his family for visits and dinners, but that is ‘family’, not “alone time” with ‘sis’.
REALLY???… “text messages” and “MYSPACE” primarily for a relationship that connects brother-sister on a ‘level above’?
No phone calls or in-person get togethers??? Not going out in the back yard for a chat about how things are going, what’s new in your life, type thing??? Always an indirect or impersonal use of the internet or texting?
I find this strange– not that the internet is used to keep up with more public events or to IM, or that texting is used when a call isn’t necessary, or to say ‘give me a call’, but that is the PRIMARY method that Lee kept in touch with his sister and there is NO MENTION of the telephone as a personal and direct way to ‘connect’.
We don’t have Lee’s incoming texting records. (he wouldn’t have changed cell service providers would he?? Deleting one cell phone service and ‘possibly’ deleting any text message records from or about Casey?)
I went looking for info on that line that the bones arent caylee but cant find anything said about it so there cant be any substance to that comment, no idea why it was said
#1519 suz. Well suz I have to give you credit for trying to come up with a reasonable defense for casey’s actions, however I have really failed to find anything plausable about caylee’s death or her family’s actions. All I see is a predator who likes to mentally and emotionally torture others.and her inane record of sms messages and other actions supports my theory if you don’t mind my saying so. Sure is gonna help the prosecution out if this goes to trial IMO
Hi Blink,
I read with much confusion the claims that totmom’s prints were found on the duct tape and then you said something about “latent prints” wich went right over my head.
My understanding of what I have read in the mainstream newspapers says that LE didn’t find any fingerprints on the tape at all. Am I mistaken?
One more quickie: I read the PDF of the FBI report of the decomp residues found in the Pontiac’s trunk. I am not a chemist by trade, but I understand the subject in general and I understand the scientific methods and measurements they discuss and I must say that I find the FBI’s work most compelling, well documented, and well explained. Of course, most jurors would probably choke on it and I myself might be swayed by an equally elegant defense expert rebuttle … I am more swayed by the FBI’s logical, seamless explanation and reputation than I am by any personal expertise.
I also find the report’s indication that although clorophorm is indeed a byproduct of human decomposition in itself the levels found in the trunk were an order of magnitude too high to have come from the decomp alone. Someone spiked the punch.
yes Fred, someone did, and that someone is Casey.
Latents are not in discovery, I was relaying info from a source.
B
maura comment #1481,the mystery is how george knew the car the car had been at amscot FOR THREE DAYS, not how he knew it had been at amscot, as of course the tow co. would record where they picked it up,but not HOW LONG IT HAD BEEN AT THE SPOT, before they picked it up.also jeff is a white name, kiomarie said cindy didnt like hispanics(kiomarie was not allowed in the house when cindy was there.kiomarie said (all of casey boyfriends are hispanic).as per cindys peeps cindy had been anticipating meeting JEFF (casey
s boyfriend,but never did as casey always had an excuse,for at least six months . Casey was dating ricardo morales,cindy thought jeff hopkins.Cindy had never met ricardo or kiomarie,cindy thought ERIC(as told to cindy’s peeps)was the father,appears Jesus is(hispanoic name),THere is a lie code here,wonder how long casey had been living a double life.
Was away for a few days and look what I missed! The diary hasn’t been mentioned for a while, but I have a question if someone wants to set me straight. When LE first found the diary during the first warrant search, weren’t there pages missing from the diary? Then when LE went in with another warrant sometime later – didn’t they find the missing pages and bag them as evidence? Did we ever learn the content of the missing pages or were the contents hushed up and kept from the public?
Silver,
I got the impression you were making the comment in general re: posts on the car as angry an defensive; but since you addressed to me, I will say sorry if mine came across that way. Not indicative of what I intended. I love a good respectful bantering back and forth. Keeps my mind open to other ideas. No anger from me on it at all. Guess things can come across misunderstood on posts.
(I think I threw in the d and shiz as just frustration over what this girl has done).
Agreed and understand it’s irrelevant as probably is the date of notification on the certified, since neither Cindy nor George are on trial. There is plenty to discount their lack of credibility already. But it’s interesting to speculate; for if not, not a one of us would be here typing! And I too think it safe to say we are all hoping for justice.
Additionally, I thought of this from your post, re: angles of thought we are coming from. You’re explaining from the standpoint of the decomposition smell, and correct (at least for me); I have no experience other than an abstract idea to draw from. (I won’t gore you with my closest experience at guessing either LOL)
On the otherhand, I am more coming from the underlying consistent principles of her behavior being applied as a whole to answer alot of questions about her actions. If she indeed has sociopathic tendencies (which seems pretty obvious). She is not like everyone else, but we all try applying our own thinking to her actions. Doesn’t work. And that is the bottom line I was trying to get at more than the car situation per se. Many people (luckily for them)also have an abstract understanding of sociopathic behavior. I’m not one of them. Sociopaths being sociopaths by virtue of their similar diagnostic traits. Albeit some are better planners than others.
When you wrote, “Maybe she is more of a monster than I imagine?? (she would almost have to be insane to keep using the car with that stench coming from the trunk, growing stronger, day after day after day, etc)” It made me realize this difference, so for what it’s worth, I’m sure those perspectives are where part of the difference in opinions come in. (I prob’ly wouldn’t make the jury cut)
J.G. -Cracked me up on the ‘gender’ perspective.
Suz- Just to clarify. Anyone can get certified letter slips, take them home and even use postage stamps to send them. Most businesses use Pitney Bowes meters and they do send out with the regular mail. Carrier will return Postmarked receipts the next day. Burch may have the special software since they send out a lot of them, but not required. Whether your receipt is postmarked or not, if it’s delivered there is proof of such, if it isn’t delivered, it’s returned to the sender and they still have proof they sent it, so serves same purpose. I agree with your post to BOO about Casey’s defense, but she couldn’t qualify for insanity, (she still knows right from wrong) although she does seem crazy for sure. Yep.
Scarlett, #1516- HIGH FIVE, LADY=)
Suz #1518- I think we haven’t seen the certified mail receipt in the discovery for the reason that it is not proof of anything in the case against Casey. Remember how this topic got started? We are discussing whether or not we believe the story Cindy & George gave LE about when they first knew the car was impounded at Johnson’s. There are no charges against Cindy and/or George (at this time), so while we are all intrigued, it is not evidence that can be used to prove any of the charges against Casey.
If it ends up being disclosed in discovery, that would be curious though;)
Just to follow up a bit on my earlier post about the testing of the trunk air…
Lets just imagine, for argument’s sake, that the judge sustains the defense motion to preclude the evidence of air sample testing and results.
Guess what? Not really a problem, because you know what STILL COMES IN??
The fact that a handful of people with first-hand knowledge actually observed that the car SMELLED OF HUMAN DECOMPOSITION –a smell you “never forget”.
George–who has professional experience/smelled dead human bodies before due to his work in Ohio–and therefore had a basis to form even a lay opinion on the matter– said it smelled like human decomp.
Cindy–who has professional experience as a nurse/knowledge of what human decomp smells like– told not only her CO-WORKERS.. not only AMY, BUT ALSO, in a RECORDED STATEMENT, told the 911 operator that the car smelled like there’s been a DEAD BODY in it.
Tow lot employee–who has professional experience, has smelled dead human remains in other cars on the lot–said it smelled like a dead body had been or still was in the car.
LEE–certainly can be questioned about how the car smelled. “ATROCIOUS”, etc, etc.
That jury is going to hear about evidence of human decomposition in the car from several sources, which should/WILL (thanks for the info on other cases in FL, Blink) ALSO include the air sampling tests.
It will be up to the jury to give that testimony whatever weight they like, but they are going to hear it.
*******
j.g. #1503
I think it’s fair to say that Caylee suffered–even in life while she was being passed off onto any other adult her mother could find to pawn her off on (Lauren Gibbs, Richard Grund, Cindy, George, Kristina, etc– all the way down to the other young adults at Tony’s apartment just a few weeks before taking her final breath, when Casey disappeared into Tony’s bedroom, and left a less-than-3-yr-old Caylee in a room full of 20-somethings, answering the damn door of the apartment-yeessshhhh), but we will probably never know the full extent of it.
I know you were more specifically referring to the suffering she may have endured at the very end. Again, we’ll probably never know, because Casey has no intention of confessing. And even if she did confess, would you believe her version of events???
All of the lies you lay out tell me that you, like I, would be highly unlikely to buy anything she was selling.
Yes–that first call home– when she was demanding to have Tony’s phone number.. and Kristina displays tearful emotion about Caylee (something to the effect of “If anything happened to Caylee, I’ll die, Casey”), to which Casey cold-heartedly gets PISSED, and says something to the effect of, “Oh my God… Calling you guys?? A big waste.”
That phone call is somethin’ else. Casey is all about CASEY. Casey is ANGRY. Casey feigns concern but only in an attempt to MANIPULATE.
COLD, COLD-HEARTED.
Which is what makes me believe there is a chance that Caylee suffered more than Casey will ever tell.
Silver, thank you for letting me open this forum tonite & get a chuckle…after leaving it last nite in such a somber state. Show’s my ignorance on the internet & it’s ways. I was so dead set sure you were a retired silver haired malel attorney…smiles. Its amazing how this case has brought out so many who feel so strongly that we are being the voice for a little girl who was left behind in this mockery of strange bedfellows. I sure never thought I’d be posting on a public forum. But this darling little baby and those cold callous family members make me feel that people like us, (and the prosecutors) are Caylee’s only voice.
Now let me go read up on todays thoughts from the forum….
I have been reading everything,but figuring out the course of this crime is too much for my feeble brain, so cudos to those of you who so excellently put the parts together. One thing I think everyone needs to if they have not is look up sociopathic tendencies. Unreal how these traits spell Casey Anthony. Also, sociopaths, psychopaths and other mental issues are often genetic. So, um….Cindy??? I think Shirley knows Cindy has issues associated to Casey’s. Anyway, the lying, stealing, selfishness, lack of moral compass, lack of conscience, the mania then the lows all spell sociopath. Sociopaths can get better on meds or worse on meds. Anyway from my time as an administrator at a psychiatric day treatment center for adolescents I can say that these people can charm you one minute and turn on you with rage the next. These people blame everyone else for their problems. It is never their fault. We had students who came to school each morning seeminly ready to learn and share a good environment with others. Within an hour, however, one could have an episode of mania triggered by most anything and two of us would have to take the child down to the floor and keep him from hurting himself or others. Often the nurses at the center had to use Risperdol to calm the student. I think Casey has been enabled for her whole life through Cindy. Now that it looks like Casey will be in prison for her entire life, Cindy is desperate to stop that. She will blame herself for not finding Casey and Caylee sooner. So if she cannot ever have one of her babies again, she will keep one, sick or not. Sad to think if we had paid closer attention as a society would we have seen this coming and maybe could we have stopped it?
wow, haven’t caught up yet but will later.
Briefly, to Silverspnr’s comment on the decomp– adding my bewilderment that as Lee talked to Casey the evening of July 15th, Cindy said she stayed in the garage. The car was inside the garage at that point, so how could she stand to be in there??? But I may have this wrong– the car had been moved outside but IIRC (and I may not RC) only after the Anthony’s asked LE if this was alright to do so, to allow it to air out. I think George returned the vehicle home, removed the battery, so the car was still inside the garage when Cindy was staying in the garage to sort of vent her frustration with Casey.
I don’t understand how she could do that if the smell was decomposition of anyone– nevermind a remote chance that she was actually inhaling the chemicals from her granddaughter. Maybe she’s that tough a person– but I doubt that just being a nurse hardens her to her own family.
Has anyone come across anything recently about the illusive little white backpack with little monkeys on it? The one that was not in the recovered car yet was apparently worn by Caylee on the 16th as in George’s original statements?
If that backpack was not with the car, not with the body or in the woods, where is it?? Or where was it found and why haven’t we heard anything? Could it possibly have been found somewhere that might implicate someone? Or could it be what Cindy found on the 3rd and why George’s story would include that particular backpack to document that the backpack left the house and property?
The backpack in the car was not the same one, and the backpack with the child was different again– ‘adorable’, wasn’t it?
If Casey was using a ‘heart’ sticker to say she loved little Caylee, was a ‘kiss’ from her mother as a sign of love, then why wouldn’t the same caring mother (ok– that’s a stretch) place the little baby doll with the child? If a ‘nanny’ aka kidnapper/killer wanted to put items with the child, owned by the child and the mother, why wouldn’t that baby doll be wiped clean of prints and added to the package with other things?
Bluewillow and ELMOSMOMMY, well, if they want to discredit DNA, I suppose they can challenge the baby’s ID also (sort of late with very serious implications for a mistake)! I think if the defense is going to challenge the actual ID of the baby now, that will discredit themselves most of all. They should have done this earlier, and if George and Cindy did their own DNA testing for identification AFTER they took possession of the remains, why wait until now to bring it up? That is irresponsible to whomever is still searching for a missing child of that same description.
I suppose the source will come out sooner or later… thanks for the explanations!
Silverspnr, an off-topic question, but do you happen to be a Darcy O’Brien fan?
(
Suz since casey didn’t actually work for a living for herself and her daughter, why do you suppose she always claimed to be an event planner? Is this how she saw herself? Planning events?
Gigi, thanks for bringing that perspective into the discussions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7yR86-eHak&http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1sWCtTSbtE&NR=1NR=1 WATCH these fbi interviews with cindy and count how many hidden mistakes you count as her story falls apart,(my personal favorite is the blonde one)where is casey’s fbi interviews anyone got a link?i saw a short clip and and casey’s story already fizzled,want to see more, as she must just tap out of lies.
My fave- she calls Zenaida Rodriguez
2nd fave- she openly admits Casey was not at the house after the 14th of June. Duh.
B
1517 Kleat
Here is a link about Michelle Bart’s recent call in show, let me know what you think of it.
http://www.bloggernews.net/121586
#1541 the above links to part 11 make sure you watch part ten too.
boo – I would say of course that is what she wanted to be doing. Tony was a DJ and she jumped right in , really I think, wanting to be a part of his business. She also had friends, and of course since my memory isnt great, I dont recall who but thinking maybe annie, that envied her having her own office and planning events without going to college for it, and they were in courses learning to be an event planner. It still boggles my mind that she could take the police all the way down the hallway to her supposed office, before she would admit to lying.
Blink!
Do you think KC used the chloroform to clean? as doesnt it disepate (SP?) just wanted to get it clear from you. There is so much speculation about the choloroform amounts and I am not in any way a rocket scientist…
I think she used chloroform for sex recreation, and then dumped it in the trunk to attempt to mask the smell. I also predict Ricardo Morales will confirm that in court.
B
Riddle-
I meant ALL of us who were making cases on either side of that car-at-Amscot issue, myself included, so I hope no offense was taken by you or anyone at that remark. We are surely a passionate bunch!
I only meant to point out that this “issue” is really a “red herring”. Interesting to discuss, but either way, it has no bearing on Casey’s guilt on the Murder charge.
j.g.-Glad to have provided you with a chuckle=) (plus, my husband had a good chuckle himself at your imagined description of me
Kleat- Tell me about it with the Anthonys (George, Cindy AND Lee). I imagine them all being right there with the putrid stench of Caylee’s demise coming from that trunk, and I have a hard time just imagining how they tolerated it at the time, and how they now live day to day and night(mare) to night(mare), knowing for certain that it was, in fact, her decomp fluids.
(btw-haven’t read Darcy O’Brien yet, but will get there- thanks for the tip)
BLINK-
I am trying to catch up on the Tracy Ocasio case, as well.
I know you said you are capable of looking out for yourself, but please just know that I am adding to the chorus:PLEASE BE CAREFUL AND STAY SAFE THERE. Not only due to the unsavory cast of characters (the Huttos, in particular), but also, and especially, due to how they get kid-gloved by the system (this is what concerns me most where YOU are concerned).
For all, here is a link to Molly McIntyre’s story. A cop, and a mom, who did for a stranger-victim and yes, too, for the sake of her son’s “soul” what we were all hoping against hope that George Anthony would have done to honor Caylee’s all-too-short life.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/01/12/48hours/main148985.shtml
****NEW TOPIC****
George Anthony MUST be lying about when he last saw Caylee.
All family members gave written statements on the night that Cindy placed the calls to 911.
Didn’t Casey and Lee sit within earshot of Cindy & George as they spoke with police in the house??
If so, how come Casey’s time line about the day Caylee “went missing”/”was taken by Zanny” is ENTIRELY INCONSISTENT with George’s timeline for the day??
In other words, how could Casey have dropped her daughter off at Sawgrass (not even going there with that other total nonsense about Blanchard Park) between the hours of 9am and 1pm IF George saw them at the house at ten minutes to 1pm??
Is it even possible to get to the Sawgrass Apartments from the house on Hopesping in LESS THAN 10 MINUTES??
And if George was actually telling the truth about the timing, WHY WOULD CASEY LIE ABOUT WHEN SHE DROPPED HER DAUGHTER OFF????? (unless she was intentionally trying to cast doubt on George?? or maybe she is just THAT stupid?? or unless she was UNintentionally revealing a truth??? or ???)
It’s curious to me that LE didn’t bring this up in George’s interview (or perhaps they did and that portion has been redacted)
Blink,
not buying the accident theory at all, hence, the research on the computer weeks months??? before Caylee went missing (neck breaking, household weapons etc….) she might have murdered her in the pool but it was no accident.
opps… meant to say Caylee might have died in the pool but it was no accident…
sorry I get so angry about this case I could spit nails…
For those who have been hearing RUMORS of Caylee’s remains being fake, there is a contingent of what I term, Anthony Supporter’s Spewing Egregious Shi#, or the A.S.S.E.S. They have a couple of private web sites where they manufacture their vileness and lies and then their members fan out to public forums and start spewing.
If you feel up to slumming in the sewer’s of the Orlando Topix forum, it’s not difficult to find them.
Most recently, they have been claiming that the portion of bone submitted to the FBI lab was tampered with by using the original DNA “Card,” supplied by Jesse, to extract Caylee’s DNA and infuse bone purchased over the internet. How this makes sense to them, I can’t determine, but Michelle Bart alluded to this during her recent blogtalk interview.
If you do go looking for this stuff, beware, as it is truly vile and disgusting. The A.S.S.E.S are the worst of the worst.
It never ceases to amaze me the chit these dregs think people would ever believe.
B