Morgan Harrington Murder: Harringtons Debut Morgan Rocks
Charlottesville, VA- Continuing the crusade to memorialize their daughter Morgan and keep the public focused on the dangerous killer(s) still at large, Dan and Gil Harrington will be meeting with media today at 1PM.
The meeting agenda will include the Harrington’s ongoing concerns for womens safety on and off campus, and their fears associated with the fact that there has not been an arrest in their daughters murder to date.
The Harringtons are also expected to announce MORGAN ROCKS.
In response to a hand-painted river rock, lovingly and generously created and delivered to the Copely bridge by blinkoncrime.com contributor Skyler, containing the phrase “Rock On”; The Harringtons have decided to widen the trend.
MORGAN ROCKS
We are starting a “gathering of rocks” at Morgan’s memorial on
Morgan’s Bridge at Copeley Road on the North Grounds of the University of Virginia. When you come to Charlottesville and to the bridge bring a rock and a prayer to add to the collection. Leave both at the bridge!
Morgan, Gil, Alex and I continue to need your support and prayers as we wait for Morgan’s murder(s) to be brought to justice. Your support in raising society’s awareness of the need to change the culture of acceptance of violence against women and in so doing change the laws that allow these crimes to go unpunished.
Skyler’s slate rock was the first. A beautiful painted slate rock with an image of Anchorage Farm, Tibetan prayer flags and an angel rising to the heavens. Morgan, Rock ON!!!
Dan Harrington
Related Posts
Related Posts:
1,174 Comments
RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI
B – re: [forehead slap]
Thanks, B. I changed it. (see? people *can* change!) I don’t how what happened, but it was easy enough to fix. This is how I learn. And, to put it in perspective for you, my Tech-savvy is right around safety-helmet level (I can’t even work the TV remote when it requires anything more complicated than switching the channel).
As for a few of your recent comments:
“I will add this- Sometimes what you cannot find, is more important than what you can.
Cheesy jumpsuit notwithstanding, he is a dangerous predator, imo.~”
And then, to my post:
“… Perhaps his whereabouts on the night of Oct. 17 are not fully verified. Despite the fact that Johnny Tax Dollar says they should be duly tracked/recorded?”
…you stated:
“There’s a plus or minus “ping area” of SEVERAL MILES, or I offer the alternative as a hypothetical:
..’Yes, I picked her up hitchiking and dropped her off at X. Did not know she was missing until she was found and I never heard from her again…’”
I definitely smell what you’re steppin’ in, B.
But, c’mon – *that* guy? That guy???
I can see it now… “I know this looks bad, officer, but I swear I dropped her off – I swear it!”
I know we’re traversing a hypothetical scenario here, in regard to your suggested “perhaps”-able Cheese-Curl statement. But that would mean two things:
One, there was reason to believe Cheese-Doodle came in contact with MH that night, as he *possibly* offered a statement that accounted for being together at some point that evening;
Two, that LE does *not* believe his theoretical excuse, as the timeline has not been extended to “that gas station (I) dropped her off at at 9:45.”
It ends at 9:30, with her HH on Copeley.
O/T:
fish – re: Fun, Jersey-style
(said:) “J2K: I can do some mean pyros with a can of AquaNet and a lighter. My brother taught me, Jersey-shore style! So much for his babysitting techique.”
All, I can say to that – through my speechless admiration – is… The “BOC Reunion Party: Class of ’09-’10″ is gonna be off the hook!
Observer – re: Stowaways
We Word Nerds, we have a Code – “Don’t Mess with our alone-time … and Beware of chattering around us while we sit engrossed in delicious arrays of prose. (But do pass the Goblet!)”
Wishing you wonderful travels, my friend. One last *clink* for the road…
Blink, are you aware of LE NEVER speaking to the paper lady on the lawn about seeing Morgan? Someone over on Findmorgan.com states that they spoke to her today and she claims that LE never contacted her about her account. Geller stated that LE vetted her account and did not find it related to Morgan. I believe, however, that they a verifiable reason to discount her sighting. Do you know what that would be?
Respectfully, that is not at all what it says.
B
i know that blink says morgan’s friends were not involved in her murder, so i will believe what she says as truth… i do, however, think they are lying through their teeth; there are too many inconsistencies… beginning with how they arrived at the stadium, to what/ where they pre-gamed, to plans, to no photos posted, and what they did after the concert… the list goes on. what’s up with that? if they were instructed not to talk about anything, why not just at least say that? i really don’t want to think bad thoughts about these kids, but those pictures, really? and, if we brush it off and give them the benefit of the doubt they believed morgan was safe with someone, why no pics of the concert night? ??? by any of them?
it is also my belief that whomever harmed morgan had help after the fact or is a very experienced killer ( i vote former)… i.e. discarding of pocketbook, placement of body, fire (?), later placement of shirt, phone sans battery, etc.
and, i have a question? we know there is no video by the stadium of morgan… is there any footage of her friends? dg, wt? and, i am reminded that wt at one point said they(?) were tracking craigslist to see who had purchased some tix near morgan’s group.
also, have we ever dispelled the newslady sighting of morgan on west lawn at 3 am … i know we keep bashing this round and round…
the only other thing i think to ask, is wonder if there was a lean- to, tarplike tent at the fire sight for protection from the elements during an outdoor party or such? oh, and sky, you want to put that theory of your friend’s out there again? ty!
fish and observer… safe journey and Godspeed… thinking of all of you as you face your struggles in prayerful hugs
Phyl says:
March 27, 2010 at 12:24 pm
“Hawes Spencer, Hook Editor10/29/2009 10:54:51 AM
@J Hey, this is the Hook editor here. Morgan’s dad originally told us that Morgan’s car and keys stayed in Harrisonburg. In preparing this cover story, State Police spokesperson Corinne Geller– asserting a change in info– told us the contrary scenario we put in this story above. So we spoke again this morning to Dr. Harrington, and he stands by his statement: that Morgan’s car was never in Charlottesville. Messages left this morning with Ms. Geller have not been immediately returned, but we’ll update as soon as she clarifies….”
They must have heard back from Geller re: Morgan’s car being at the concert.
B/c according to Courteney Stuart’s article “Missing pieces” dated November 15th – it clearly 100% states Morgan’s car was at the concert that night.
“Police have confirmed that a friend inside the concert had driven Morgan’s car and still had her keys.” -CS
No retractions or corrections regarding this statement appear in the article (i.e.-footnotes at the end of the article).
Sooo-this is another huge problem I have re: her so-called ‘friends”. I can’t think of one reasonable explanation as to why Morgan would leave and ‘find her own ride home’ when her car is there at the concert. I say NO WAY! I don’t care how wasted she might have been, she was able to call Sarah at 8:48 and tell her not to worry and that she’d find her own ride home, if she could do that then I say she was coherent enough to ask for her keys or for someone to meet her or a dozen other scenarios. Instead there’s one phone call from Morgan’s phone to SS at 8:48 with NO follow-up call to Morgan, no text, nothing from her friends (at least while Morgans phone is still active-approx 9:30-ish?).
To further confuse the situation-I am also baffled as to why her car, which was definitely there that evening was not part of the investigation. One would think they’d also ask the public(as LE has re: other issues with Morgan)if anyone recalls seeing her at her car(which I believe I’ve read it was in the U-Haul parking lot).LE could show a pic of the car or anything along those lines…but there’s been nary a mention of her car. Maybe it’s just me- but I think it’s quite reasonable to consider the idea that she might have tried to gain access to her car after she spoke with Sarah at 8:48. Even without the keys Morgan had every legal right to access her own car. Maybe it was unlocked-maybe she passed out on the hood-maybe it was there (or around her car) where an assault/kidnapping of some sort took place.
Peggy
Redly; that is why I have lipo-in-a-box, spanx, and when they don’t work…I go straight for the dive suit! I was into symbolism last night but Iswear, if I hear anyone else say “jack” about what she was wearing , I’m goin’ on TV 3, suit and all, and it ain’t gonna b pretty but I’m not goin’ leave Morgan out there alone to now have her Momma defend what she was wearing! Can anyone give up their vow of monkhood silence and come out and say where in the arena they were? Can they say if .organ was inside? I personally feel that is her by the LOG drumset. She made it in, fell, found herself out, tried to get back in, pingpongd around lots, took a ride cause she thought he was safe. What I’m not sure of if something\one started off an argument.
Blink: do you know of the milage that was put on her car?
Phyl: its ok,just knowing u are there gives support and makes a difference. Takes no money but volunteer anywhere, for example at a hospital pediatric wing, or a home for abused kids reading to them! Make a difference before much damage can start! Outweight every bad memory for some of these little ones with a good one. It may be all they need. There are other ways too. Search and seek what works for you. It will come in your own moment of clarity! I send u good vibes!
Thanks for lettin me know that I’m up and running. I have limited function but will look at the videos upon return.
Observer: so so sorry! U need some much needed rest! Looking forward if I can provide that “boulder” symbolizing the power of our shiny girl!
B: wouldn’t u think that the boss would regulate him to a desk job? He’s got to know of all the talk! Or hypothetically, did he not know she was missing too? I would think that convictd rso! could b a big liability. An example, even the roommates of Somer Thompson’s killer turned him in on child pornography. My point of hope. Are people starting not to tolerate such criminally-deviant behavior? RSO could, in one bad plunging choice, cause the company to go down the drain! Right? Wrong? Reformed?
Fish-
I have no synaps left today, but had to commend you for yours, you have seriously cracked me up with the spanx, lol lol.
B
B: if VSP do not want to name a suspect could they at least give clarification onwho is for sure, out? What harm would that be! Suz: everyone in til someone’s out but no one even saying who’s out!
Sorry bout typos. Keyboard is the size of walnut! Uggghhh! Just don’t want to not b here for her!
B: this may end up being a double post. I’m really trying to keep my participation up and running. One thing I don’t want is for another family to feel alone!!! Even if I’m sitting in paradise.friends don’t leave friends.
B: if VSP do not want to name a suspect could they at least give clarification onwho is for sure, out? Rso? What harm would that be! Suz: everyone in til someone’s out but no one even saying who’s out!
Sorry bout typos. Keyboard is the size of walnut! Uggghhh! Just don’t want to not b here for her!
It wasn’t clear to either Dr. Harrington or LE until October 28th if Morgan’s car was left in H’burg or taken to C’ville. Those kids must have had a last minute change in plan sometime after 2pm on Oct 17th.
Blink, when I think and think… and believe I FINALLY got you with a question… sometimes I end up feeling like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5cVYeeMzGI
OMG, LMAO, ATWMP.
Seriously though, overt is elusive at times, I don’t proclaim to have the answer in a public domain.
Your questions are intelligent and focused, I commend you.
I wish I could accelerate the process, but Albemarle county has a new k9 for just that purpose.
B
Hi Blinksters-
I’m not much of a poster, but I faithfully read BOC each day (often several times a day) and admire the many minds at work here.
Cat – The “Paper Lady” and her friend were at the organizational meeting on the Thursday night before the search at the Cavalier Inn when the Laura Recovery Center briefed us (the volunteers) what to expect during the following three days. The PL stood up and told her story and claimed that no one would believe her. Bob Smithers (Laura’s father) thanked her for the information and she said she had told LE as well as govt officials (she even mentioned the Govenor) but felt like she was being ignored. Mr. Smithers took other questions about the search and then her friend stood up and repeated what she had said. One of the people with LRC took her over to the side of the room with a policeman and took her statement.
Also, I’ve seen many posts about residents of Charlottesville being unaware of Morgan’s murder and the horrifying fact that the person(s) responsible is still at large. I live about a mile from JPJ and not a day goes by that I don’t think about Morgan. Anyone living in and around Charlottesville would have to be living under a rock not to know about Morgan’s tragic end. Each day I pray that the MONSTER who did this is arrested and off the streets not to mention quickly tried & punished. We are on high alert to make safe choices for ourselves and our children (although even after he is caught, we should never let down our guard – unfortunately there are lots more bad guys on the loose).
The Harringtons have shown such grace during this unimaginable tragedy and my heart goes out to them. May there be justice for Morgan soon.
Blink, you are amazing! Thank you for all you do.
I just do not understand after all these months why we do not have definative proof of Morgan inside the arena. I know you have said to believe you Blink and I do trust you but what proof is this based on.
There is still a large belief that Morgan was not inside. What is the proof. I hope you will not be upset that I said this but really why after all these months are we still looking at homemade videos. Very frustrating.
On a serious note:
RE: Photos of the “friends”
Ya know, the pictures can be interpreted in several ways. Maybe the girl who appears to be “hitchhiking” just hung the sign and was saying “is this where you want it?”. I don’t know, I obviously wasn’t there. I’d say she’s dressed inappropriately for the occasion, but that’s my opinion. As far as the “partying” pics… poor taste- sure… especially with Morgan’s 241 on the door behind them. However, I seriously doubt they meant to do that. Maybe they’re not the sharpest tools in the shed. Perhaps they got drunk and were blowing off steam from extreme stress. They’re kids- who knows how they would react to that situation.
I’m not defending them- they weren’t good friends… at least on Oct 17th. But IF they truly know no more than they’re saying, I’d hate to add insult to injury. If they truly have no involvement, they’re going to be dealing with guilt and the “I should have’s” for the rest of their lives.
I wish I could accelerate the process, but Albemarle county has a new k9 for just that purpose.
B
————
Hmmm… interesting.
RE: multimedia and music’s effect on children and society
Clipped from the preamble of The United States Constitution:
——————————————————————-
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
——————————————————————–
Keywords from this preamble:
-establish justice
-insure domestic tranquility
-promote the general welfare
Not many people realize this, but NO WHERE in The United States Constitution does it make mention of “freedom of expression”. Freedom of SPEECH is protected… “freedom of expression” is a term that has been added only by society, mostly in reference to the arts. Obviously, the arts have been given a very broad brush in regards to the freedom of speech amendment.
Our fore-fathers could have never imagined what certain things would be like in the 21st century.
Even with freedom of speech, can anyone say WHATEVER they want? No. Even BOC is an example. If you slander people, you can be in violation of Laws. At work, you can be fired or disciplined for expessing religous or political beliefs. So why can musicians (or any form of “artistic” expression) say or do whatever they want- without any sense of responsibility- morally or legally?
IMHO, mass-media (especially the internet) has exploded so fast that legislation cannot keep up with it. I think it is high-time our government begins to re-assess many things that are publicly available to children, especially. It is time for government to take a look at the way violence (among other things) is promoted through music and mass-media. After all- they are charged with the responsibility to:
-establish justice
-insure domestic tranquility
-promote the general welfare
As an artistic person myself, I highly value “artistic” expression. However, where should the line be drawn? Who decides what is over the line? These are questions that instill fear in our society and the government as well… and are not easily answered.
I do believe that the moral degredation of our society is due in part to the lack of regulations pertaining to what “artistic expression” is socially acceptable- especially in regards to our country’s youth.
My point is- nobody wants to have their Constitutional Rights infringed. Messing with those rights are opening a huge can of worms. But how far do we let it go? When are certain forms of expression infringing on everyone else’s right to domestic tranquility?
Sorry for getting all political, but I wanted to respond to all the talk of how certain forms of music and media are affecting our society in general.
Redrock,you asked:
If Morgan had told her friends @ 8:48 she would get a ride home, why were they supposedly waiting for her in the parking lot after the concert?
Yes, good point, and we are assuming that is accurate as it conflicts with the witness account of Dave Gardner in the first place.
B
belleboyd, you asked:
One U.Va graduate who was the concert tells News 7 he remembers seeing Morgan before the concert in the parking lot.
“It was definitely her, I’m 100 percent certain of that,” says Dave Gardner.
“She pulled up with her party and got out of her parties car and kind of immediately engaged me and my brother and my cousin and my friend who were at the concert,” says Gardner.
“They weren’t really tailgating. There was no evidence of drinking.”
What does “they weren’t really tailgating” mean? What were they REALLY doing? Dave Gardner, please tell us….
—–
One University of Virginia graduate said he remembers seeing Morgan Harrington before Saturday night’s concert in the parking lot.
“It was definitely her. I’m 100% certain of that,” he said.
Gardner, a 2005 UVA grad who now works in New Jersey, came back to Charlottesville to see Metallica.
“She pulled up with her party and got out of the car and kind of immediately engaged me and my brother and my cousin and my friend who were at the concert,” he told CBS Station WDBJ correspondent Jean Jadhon. “She did seem excited for Metallica, “because she asked us who the opening act was. We told her and then she immediately said, ‘Well, who cares anyway? We’re here to see Metallica, right?’”
Gardner says Harrington was anxious to get into the arena. “It was clear to us she wanted to get in there and no one else was in as big of a hurry as her and it was frustrating for her,” he said.
Gardner said he did not see evidence that either Harrington or the people in the car she was in were drinking, and didn’t want to speculate on it.
Harrington only spoke to Gardner’s group for a few minutes before heading toward the arena, but he says he remembers seeing the car after the concert – without Morgan.
“There were definitely just three people in the car, and she was the only one we spoke to, and we all noticed that she wasn’t in the car,” he said.
Gardner did not think much about it until … “My Dad e-mailed me and said, ‘Did you hear someone vanished at the concert?’ And I, you know, I got online out of curiosity and a chill just ran straight down my spine when I saw the picture.”
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/23/earlyshow/main5412961.shtml
Also don’t forget:
Facebook post from Dave Gardner:
Dave Gardner: i don’t know morgan but parked next to her at the concert and spoke with her before going in. i did not see her afterwards but did notice the car she came in with the others waiting on her as we left. i called the police but not sure my knowledge adds anything, except keeping her in my thoughts/prayers. October 20, 2009 at 10:12pm
and:
Gardner says Harrington only spoke to his group for a few minutes before heading toward the arena, but he says he remembers seeing the car after the concert without Morgan.
“There were definitely just three people in the car.”
Peggy,
I’ve held back on judging the friends,
but after reading here and viewing the
Halloween pics, I treasure my friends now
more than ever.
I’m still learning B’speak so I’m probably completely off target, but, B, are you serious about the K9? Please, please, please, do tell! And, if yes, would that be a K9 trained to search for people or for drugs or for evidence (at the scene of a house fire perhaps)? I love dogs!
Great video TA! That is toooo funny ~ I think we can all relate!
Can anyone post the fall on the stairs photo here for us all to see? I tried to see it on another site but you have to register to see it. I’m only comfortable on BOC ~ there are just too many scary people lurking in the shadows for me to venture onto other sites/message boards. I only lurk on other sites. I know my privacy is protected here and I feel safe at BOC
Do you mean the new accelerant sniffing dog?
Xactly. Put into commission March 12.
B
I know many, including myself, have wondered why Morgan, once outside the arena, wouldn’t buy another ticket to get back in, perhaps with the assistance of her friends.
I think I may have found the answer. Below is information regarding the hours the ticket office at the arena is open as well as the link to that information. The concert took place on a weekend day (Saturday, October 17th, 2009).
Box Office Hours of Operation
Event Day Hours
Weekdays – 10am until showtime
Weekends – 4 Hours prior to event (subject to change)
UVA Basketball Hours 90 minutes before game till halftime
*Hours effective February, 2009
Summer Hours of Operation
Box office will operate under summer hours from Tuesday, May 27th through Labor Day.
Monday – Friday: 10am – 2pm
Event day and on-sale day hours same as above.
*****
I’m assuming, “4 Hours prior to event” means the ticket office opens 4 hours prior to the event beginning and closes when the event begins.
I don’t know when this information was added to on the website and if the hours were the same on October 17th, 2009.
Link;
http://www.johnpauljonesarena.com/tickets.asp
Below is a link to an article that appeared in The Hook on November 4th.
http://www.readthehook.com/blog/index.php/2009/11/04/still-missing-ed-smart-joins-harrington-parents-new-details-emerge/
From the article;
At Wednesday’s press conference, Geller shot down the rumor that Morgan might have been ejected from the Arena.
“We have no information to believe,” says Geller, “that she was forced to leave or asked to leave, or anything of that nature.
Also from the article;
She did make a few attempts to get back into the arena at different entrances,” says Virginia State Police spokesperson Corrinne Geller in an email, declining to elaborate on which entrances or exactly how many times she tried. Previously, police had confirmed only one attempt around the time of her last phone communication with her friends, an 8:48pm incoming call.
Lastly, from the article;
Security at the 16,000-seat facility is outsourced to RMC Events, a Richmond-based firm with a Charlottesville office. Company President Dan Schmitt declined comment, referring questions to Arena management, who also declined comment.
Here is a link to the RMC Events website;
http://www.rmcevents.com
awa, i’m not sure the friends have lied (how could they have lied to us when we’ve heard nary a peep out of them? they haven’t had the chance to lie to us yet)—ok, except maybe that bit about Morgan studying in the backseat on the way to the show, which sounds fishy to me, but on the other hand, who knows? could be true.
I think we’re unduly mad at the friends because they are not talking. But it might be that they’re not talking because they’re been advised or asked not to talk (e.g., by LE or lawyers or their parents). We have no idea what they’ve told LE or the Harringtons for that matter.
I do think there was alot of confusion in the beginning, when even Dr. H didn’t have all the facts straight (say, on whose car went to the concert), but to me, that is completely understandable for innocent reasons—-it was a really confusing and stressful time, and people were probably not talking or thinking clearly. AND we have to couple this with the really horrid news reporting in this case that seems to play pretty fast and loose with the facts (to this day do we know for sure whether the friends called morgan, or morgan called the friends? I used to be certain the friends called her, but I think the most recent accounts frame it the other way. Small point, but when you can’t even get a straight answer on THAT, which is knowable not just by the friends’ recollections, but by phone records that show either an incoming or outgoing call—it’s hard to trust anything that we read. (Here’s the alarming thing—that is prolly true with EVERY news story you read, not just in this case. Be wary, be vigilant, be skeptical when you read purported facts, kids.)
Bottom line is, when we have heard conflicting accounts of what the friends said they did after the show, for instance, it’s impossible to know if it’s because they were lying, misunderstood, confused themselves, or misreported. I’m willing to cut them some slack, though I wish I’d not seen the Halloween merriment.
Respectfully, that is not at all what it says.
B
———————————–
Sorry Blink, you are correct, a lot of confusion on thread made it appear that this was the case. However, are you aware as to why her account was dismissed?
According to police spokesperson Corinne Geller, police have “thoroughly vetted” Parson’s lead but have not found anything connecting it to Morgan’s disappearance.
…And the bad reporting and sketchy details in this case are why I’m such a pest about wanting to clarify whether things that we are calling facts are indeed facts. So Mom 3.0, how about if we call the shirt “the shirt that might be Morgan’s” or “the shirt thought to be Morgan’s” or even “the shirt Blink thinks is Morgans” — you know, just until LE sets us straight (if that day ever comes—and which might only happen with the arrest of a suspect, and I sure hope THAT day will come, but gads it seems like it’s been a long darn time).
I don’t want us well meaning Blinksters to accidentally add to the confusion out there. (ok, or to MY confusion, lol)
morning, all —
Hey, AWA, I’m w/ you on the friends — in deference to the Harringtons I tried really really hard to not think awful of them — didn’t work —
Be happy to throw out my friend’s impressions she got — I would like to remind everyone that this is what she told me one week after Morgan’s disappearance — she told me she was dead — but not killed immediately — that her killers are a male and female and the female actually killed her — that the male is not Hispanic, but has darker, olive complexion — that they are part of a drug “ring” — she has referred to this “ring” since Day 1 — that the “ring” is huge in geographical area, but that the persons who killed Morgan are small-time dealers — that they do sell to UVA students, but use the money like for pocket/spending money and they use the drugs as enticement for women to have sex — sorry, I know — that previous girls have willingly participated because they wanted the drugs — but that Morgan rebelled, said no, and fought them and that is why she was in effect tortured, brutally raped and then murdered — again, sorry, I know — I’m going to break this up into parts because of post length
Part II — she has said from Day 1 that the friends — all of them — are lying to cover their behinds — that Morgan was inside, but she didn’t have any money — that they wanted drugs — I’m not talking about heavy-duty drugs — Unicorns, E, all of that is not my generation, but they just basically wanted to get high and party — like they had ALL done before — now I don’t want to lump Dan C into that “friends” category because he is new to this group — plus, an athlete, and I would assume he has to do periodic drug testing — but even if he did not participate in the partying, he was aware of what happened and perhaps what spawned the rumor, if it is not true, that he lawyered up real quick —
Anyway, Morgan WAS there to see Metallica, was excited about the concert — so during LOG the decision was made that the friends would pay for the drugs, but Morgan had to go out and buy them — that she was NOT aware of the no re-entry policy — (now I am not in any way discounting a possible connection w/ another male discussed here a lot who may have offered Morgan a spiked beer)
Morgan was aware of this male before the concert — even if it’s just peripherally in the “music connections” that Blink’s been so slammed about — but this guy was aware of Morgan and she knew of him and that they spoke at some point prior to the concert — don’t know when that was — whether online or at another concert — but that he perhaps was in the parking lot prior to the concert — or maybe even inside and he connected w/ Morgan — she feels however, it was in the parking lot prior to — remember, Dave G’s statement was also that Morgan was anxious to get inside, but the other members of her “party” were not as anxious and she was a little miffed about that —
So Morgan leaves the arena, hooks up w/ this guy, buys the drugs, tries to get back in — and that’s where her fate was sealed — she tried really hard to get back in — now, we only have hearsay about the conversation w/ Morgan and SS — I’ve read where SS called morgan and vice versa — but the basic content of the conversation is: where are you ? What? You’re outside ? “I’ll find my own way home” “Okay.”
Which begs the question for me — if Morgan was just going off to the bathroom, why are they calling her at 8:48 — LOG is off the stage by that point, the arena is probably emptying w/ people going for beer or bathroom breaks prior to Metallica — her being gone for even up to 15 mins. shouldn’t be unusual — unless they were anxious to party prior to metallica and wanted to know what was taking her so long —
My friend believs the conversation was that Morgan told them she got the drugs, but couldn’t get back in and wanted at least one of them to come out to her and sit w/ her in the car, bring her her ticket, come be w/ her — SS basically said: screw you — I’m watching Metallica, which ticked Morgan off — I’d be mad, too — and if that is the real scenario, well …
I’ll post part III
Part III — so Morgan goes back to the parking lot — maybe has the interactions we’ve read about — but had a definite plan — she was heading someplace — where she at some point encountered the drug guy, who is now in a car w/ a girl in that car — he may have seen her walk thru the RV lot toward the bridge and stopped her on the bridge and said: it’s cold, get in, we’ll bring you back after the concert — Morgan’s po’d at friends, said sure, decides to take the drugs as a kind of “in your face” to the friends, fully believing she will hook back up w/ them after the concert — thus, the statement the friends waited for 2 hrs. afterward, but then went on their jolly way back home w/out her and w/out notifying anyone —
in the car, Morgan is given drugs that are laced — maybe even pot laced w/ something — that the drug guy and girl now fake taking the laced drugs — once she is stoned, they want to have their usual sexual 3-some, Morgan refuses — by this point they are in a building — like a home — and have taken drugs themselves, they beat her and repeatedly rape her and then by at least the next morning — which may mean dawn — the female, hyped on drugs and adrenalin, kills Morgan — blunt force trauma — which may explain the defensive wounds or breaks to her arms — she said Morgan was dumped — not dragged — after she was dead —
Now, that is again my friend’s vision, impression of all of this — use your own judgment whether to believe any or none of it —
but the last part, which she has never waivered since she told me this the week after Morgan went missing — that this drug ring is huge — huge — involving many people, a large geographic location — that there are people in power involved in this ring — that there is not going to be an arrest or someone turning themselves in and confessing because it would implement them in Morgan’s murder — she’s always said she was murdered — and it would stop the good thing they have w/ the drug ring — that the ones closest to this couple who are in the ring, either are aware or suspect what they did and their connection — this couple and their inner circle tried really hard to quit so as not to draw attention to themselves, but couldn’t and they’re back in full swing and laugh at the cops, etc., because they feel they are not going to be caught — she also said, and this is my concern — the police have a set idea as to what happened and are trying to make any evidence fit that mold of their theory — which is wrong — and are discounting credible evidence that could lead them to Morgan’s killers —
I will just remind everyone — my friend said they live in an old farmhouse not in the city limits, but on the immediate outskirts of Cvlle and that morgan would be found, but not until after the new year, she was not buried, she was not in, but near water, not in but near trees, but her body was hidden from view by leaves or grass, but not in a grave — I remember posting here I wanted to start knocking on doors of every old farmhouse w/in the near city limits —
again, take it for what it’s worth — my friend’s psychic/empathic impressions — if you think it’s total baloney — that’s fine.
I don’t care who gets credit for solving Morgan’s murder — I just want it solved — and I hope that LE is open to receiving all evidence, even if it’s contrary to what they believe happened –
I hope my friend is 100 % wrong and that LE does have not only a POI, but “the” killers, and they’re just waiting for the forensic evidence to come back so they can make a positive arrest –
I, however, am not holding my breath !!
J4M !
Ok.Blink! I can’t opy n paste with this dang thing! Your response upthread…Do we have a discrepacy between dave gardner’s statement of seeing morgan and what sarah, dan, and amy are saying about interaction? Either he interjected himself because that’s what some people do or he or someone in his party got some connection to why she ends up dead. And, Wanye Townsend, he doesn’t just sound like he thinks he saw her, he states he does. Upper corridor. Listen to his voice not just read his words.helps to hear inflection. But naybe he too is inserting himself nationally into a case where all one had to do is call the authorities! JVM is not the lead investigator, btw, Mr. Townsend, it is Lt.Rader,VSP!
J2K: if cheesedoodle picked her up, LE caught on, he reregistered (shame on your mother, Cheesedoodle, she knew what you did! Where was her love and support for her obviously angry, messed-up kid? CheeseMom!!! Even the unabomber’s bro turned him in to stop them maiming and killing. Tom Mosher died! My point is Mom, we all hav a responsibility to continue providing help even if our kids are effd-up! You could have driven him to register! Do me a favor, if he needs to reregister again and can’t get there, give me a call! I’ll take him myself!!!!). Ok J2K, hypothetically, he picks her up, why didn’t they change the timeline again??
He is anothr trying to be a part of something he wasn’t. Maybe he’s a little touched. Know what I mean? Also, im thinkin uge fam connections!
acho and observer—please include me in your exchange of book titles, I am interested in expanding my reading!
The book I’m reading now has me thinking a lot about the emotional mindset of Morgan’s killer. Though the identity of Morgan’s killer is still unknown I feel there might be parallels to the character in “We Need to Talk About Kevin”—has anyone read this book by Lionel Shriver?
“Kevin” from early childhood is an “odd” child and his mother is alarmed by what she describes as evil behavior. He “ups his game”…first by destroying property, then by hurting animals, then hurting his sister, and ultimately by opening fire on his classmates. His mother (who narrates) has a deep dislike for her son Kevin and feels responsible for his lack of empathy. The father on the other hand cannot see the escalating behavior and does everything possible to protect his son from punishment. He is the ultimate enabler.
My point in bringing up this psychologically astute book is because I fear (and suspect) that the person who murdered Morgan also exhibited a similar type of escalating behavior. And someone close to him KNOWS WHAT HE IS CAPABLE OF. I also suspect that others in his life are in deep denial.
This book was a wake-up call for me. Even if we teach the guys in our life that violence is wrong and even if fathers set good examples of respect toward their wives (two excellent calls to action from Observer and Blink)…that even so, there are people in our society that are wired differently, people that from birth are predisposed to murder. We may call it “evil” and I hesitate using that word because it applies a value to sociopathic behavior.
The thought I want to add to Observer’s and Blink’s excellent comments is: We need to be aware of the characteristics in children and young adults that are red flags for escalating behavior. Harming animals. Harming other children. These are behaviors that need attention. Please, these children need help—they need a parent who will search out mental health guidance for their child. Do not ignore these behaviors. They will not go away—they will get worse.
In the book, Kevin’s mother is sued and held accountable for her son’s murderous actions (he was 17 at the time). I believe Morgan’s killer is solely responsible for Morgan’s death. But anyone (mother, father, uncle or friend) that is protecting him at this moment is putting the rest of the Cville community at risk because he is capable of hurting someone again.
Have any of Morgan’s friends confirmed Dave Garners story? Even the pre-concert exchange? Honestly, yet another small piece of info that is not being acknowledged. What would it hurt, unless DG is being considered, which I doubt. Can ANYTHING be confirmed?? I agree with the sentiment that if LE is so convinced the timeline starts after she exits the arena, tell us what happened before.
Re: the quote from th HOOK posted by justiceformorgan says:: March 28, 2010 at 4:01 am
“We have no information to believe,” says Geller, “that she was forced to leave or asked to leave, or anything of that nature.
Ok, again, is this another ‘read between the lines”? They don’t HAVE information. He didn’t say they have no reason to believe. Or nothing points to her being asked to leave. and this is beore their timeline starts. Why the hyper-security?
Excellent find, justiceformorgan, on the box office hours. Interesting. Reports indicated she was seen near the box office, can’t find any that say she interacted w/ someone. Maybe another reason for ‘no video’ of her outside???
In looking for a direct quote about the box office viewing, I ran across this: Morgan’s dad told NG that she “texted that night with a “young man” who was not in the Charlottesville area and was not considered a suspect.” (aha, just noticed it is from the same Nov 4th article that justice referenced.)
This was so long ago… has it been explored that this friend contacted someone he knows.. friend of a friend.. etc. I’m sure it’s been dissected already… I think that’s when I first found BOC. I just don’t remember.
you are right, suz! they are in a living hell now. and, i am saddened for all involved by association with this horrible tragedy
Since the dicussion seems to be going back to the friends again, there is something that I have continued to wonder about.
After Dan Harrington called to speak to Morgan the morning after the concert,it was my understanding that the friends drove back to Charlottesville to look for Morgan.
What I don’t understand is where they looked for her.If they went back to the concert venue to look, I would wonder why, because it makes no sense that she would be there in that weather all night and not have contacted them so say so.
I am thinking that they went to Charlottesville to check out other places or people she might have ended up with the night before. This would make sense if they had some possibilities in mind. A phone call to these places would have made more sense than driving there unless the possibilities were people or places that Morgan’s friends were not familiar enough with to have phone numbers, but could locate by going there in person.
It would be interesting to know where they went to look for her, because at that point, they may not have thought anything horrific had happened, but that she had just not made it home yet.
If I was looking for a friend in that situation, I think I would be wondering if she had called or met up with a guy that interested her, or if there were any parties the night before. Either way, the friends must have had a destination in mind, or at least considered some possibilities or there would have been no point driving there to look for her.
Dee’s and friends called Morgan’s friend after the concert. Did they have info about a party that night, and if so, had that been discussed prior to the concert? Maybe that would be where the friends went looking the next morning.It’s just one more piece of missing information that it sure would be nice to know.
Alexandra – Thank you. That is what I took out of that news story/retraction too. I just didn’t express that clearly.
———————
alexandra says:
March 28, 2010 at 12:08 am
It wasn’t clear to either Dr. Harrington or LE until October 28th if Morgan’s car was left in H’burg or taken to C’ville. Those kids must have had a last minute change in plan sometime after 2pm on Oct 17th.
Suz- I agree 100% about being cautious re: information pertaining to this case, I’m very mindful of that-which is why I go straight to the source–VSP press release, VSP press conferences or the Harrington’s themselves. Even then information can be confusing!
According to the VSP press release # 42 dated October 22, 2009:
“During the course of the concert, she became separated from her friends when she left to use the restroom. Investigators have confirmed that she ended up outdoors and was unable to re-enter the arena. She telephoned her friends at approximately 8:40 p.m. to tell them she could not get back into the facility and she would make arrangements to get a ride.”
Peggy
thank you, sky. a totally believable scenario, especially since we now know the tragic outcome…
I think it is great that UVA has put out a safety warning to their students, but what about the rest of Charlottesville? No one is warning or reminding people that they need to be on guard as this animal/animals run free. The schools are not talking about it. The parents (most of them) are not either. What I have heard from parents of my children’s friends is that it was an isolated incident. I continue to warn my daughter and ask her to warn her friends.
I don’t see why a simple FYI- be careful, etc… message could not be delivered to all of Charlottesville. People are living here with a false sense of security and that is a recipe for disaster.
Why would her friends be silent? IMO, that makes no sense-in the beginning this was just a missing person case, not a criminal investigation–why be silent? Why would anyone advise them of doing so whether it be their parents or an attorney?
IDK, I have the impression that there have been problems since the get go re: her so-called friends…if you go back to the very first press conference on Oct 19 (I think that’s the date) at 13:20, at the very end of the press conference Lt Rader urges her friends to come forward, to get involved, to help out (paraphrased)- he says and I quote “hopefully we can all cooperate together”. Maybe I’m wrong but I took it as a direct plea to her friends that attended the concert with her that night b/c earlier in the pc Lt Rader addressed friends and others thru social networking sites that if they have heard from her or know anything to please come forward….the second plea was clearly directed at specific people and IMO that was Amy, Dan and Sarah.
JMHO
Peggy
I’m sorry Skyler, I just don’t think Morgan went outside to buy drugs and bring them back inside. It would be easy enough to buy drugs before going to a concert. They check your bag going in and she knew that. I also think she knew about the no re entry policy at JPJ. She didn’t intend or want to go outside because she kept trying to get back in. Why was she crying in the bathroom?
Observer:
So sorry to hear of such an emotional week for you. I hope you have double doses of rest and relaxation, loads of sunshine mixed with fun, on your travels!
I appreciated the article that you posted concerning Music and Violence towards women. It was such a good read, and eye opening. Thanks for sharing your wisdom with us.
Acho and Jeez: Sending prayers your way.
Hey yas Suz: Our friend doesn’t have much time. That back ache turned out to be pancreatic cancer that spread to his liver, bones and lungs. He is in intensive care as I type this. I’m afraid the goodbyes will come sooner than later. As I said to observer, I am horrible at good byes. Not my forte’. I will never be good good at it. Thanks for thinking of me though.
Also Suz did you see Amy Bishop was in court the other day?
I have my Rock for Morgan and just selected my prayer to be sent along with it. I wanted oit to be the right one. MORGAN ROCKS!
Fish (Lobes) : Hey Aqua Net……(LOL) ………..I would be willing to team up with you guys. I will take what ever month you want me to. I think if we do team work we could certainly come up with something! Is Momo and kee kee in? Just let me know.
After reading the posts in the last few days, I have recharged. I am still feeling a bit frustrated and weary. Kudos for keeping us egaged!
Moonchime: Thanks for posting the pics.
Kathy: So sorry about your mom, but you are so blessed that she is working the odds. Enjoy this special time, and kudos for you for what you are doing to support CUE and also for the missing girl, is it Laura? Hope she return safely home.
Has the new police K9, specially trained for the detection of accelerants, been taken to the burnt structure on Sutherland, and/or to the property located on the 1800 block of Red Hill Rd?
I remember after Immette St. Guillen was brutally murdered, I wanted to drive over the bridge and talk to the bouncer at the bar who she was last scene with. My husband rhetorically said, “Are you crazy!” (rhetorically, because he already knew the answer.) Turns out it was that bouncer who killed Immette. (I never suspected him!). This brings me to the question of whether or not UVA/JPJ does thorough background checks on security personnel.
From NBC29.com :
Fire Department Getting K9 to Help in Arson Investigations
Posted: Mar 12, 2010 1:48 PM EST
Updated: Mar 12, 2010 5:35 PM EST
Charlottesville will soon have a new living, breathing tool to stop arsonists in their tracks. The Charlottesville Fire Department is getting Quaker, an accelerant sniffing dog trained by agents with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms.
Fire Marshall W. A. Hogsten is training with the dog. Hogsten said, “These dogs are trained specifically to detect ignitable liquids – gasoline, toluene, and that type of thing. And if they alert on that, that means we know where to take evidence to take it and send it to the crime lab to confirm or disaffirm that is actually gasoline or something used to set the fire.”
Hogsten is working now on his ATF certification, and will have it in three weeks. Then he and Quaker will be able to help with investigations across central Virginia.
Yep. That’s the one.
B
It seems like we all keep trying to find the bad guy everywhere and since we can not find him, we have turned our attention to ending violence as a whole- which is a good thing. But music is not the bad guy. Censorship is not the answer to ending violence against women. Censorship will not end gang violence.It will not end higher divorce rates, sexual promiscuity, unwed mothers, absent fathers or scantily clad women.
Censorship has singled out certain genres and artists and songs. It just so happens we are now, talking mostly about hardcore rap and metal- Here is a link to a myriad of artists that have been targeted over the years:
http://www.listal.com/list/censorship-music-industry#
I too, want to end violence-all violence- not just violence against women and children-domestic violence, war, murder, rape, ect.
Morgan Harrington was a beautiful young woman. Her killer was a sick twisted deviant. Morgan no more contributed to her own demise by being dressed in a mini skirt, and high boots, than she would have had she been wearing a burka or a nun’s habit- Her killer would have targeted her and lashed out against her beauty no matter what she was wearing.
Morgan Harrington was a fan of music. She loved to go to music festivals and concerts. She embraced all styles of music from Black Sabbath, Led Zepplelin, The Beatles, Electric Chameleon, The Dirty Horse to Pantera. Morgan Harrington nor more contributed to her murder by her being a concert-goer, or a Bonaroo/indie fan, than did the music, its lyrics or its genre contribute to her killers act of taking her life.
We are symbolized here, by Skyler’s Rock, her beautiful tribute to Morgan, and to Morgan’s love of music- Skyler wrote ROCK ON love BOC- How can we all be talking about censorship when we embrace Morgan for her love of music and because of our own love? The rock does not read: Rock On To The Music We Deem Safe Or Appropriate LOVE BOC
Red Ranger wrote a beautiful statement to Dr. Harrington saying Morgan was now in Heaven listening to Hendrix and Joplin- I wholeheartly believe this. I also believe she is listening to Tupac, John Bonham, Jim Morrison, Dimebag Darrell, Cliff Burton, Elvis, John Lennon, George Harrison, Billie Holiday, Jerry Lee Lewis, John Denver, Biggie Smalls, Rosemary Clooney, Bob Marley, Hank Williams, Bon Scott, Johnny Cash, Sid Vicious, Loylld Price, Kurt Cobain and many other artists that while here on Earth were censored and possibly seen as too controversial, promoting violence, drug use or sexual deviance, or simply contributing to the demise of morals.
We have all stated here that we are music lovers, we shared our first concerts and love of our bands- Although I do not follow Two Live Crew, Luke or The Meat Puppets, and nor do my children, I do knowalittle about Nirvana.
Kurt Cobain was against violence against women. His songs that have been deemed pro-violence against women are in fact against rape- Nirvana’s song Rape Me- was an anti rape song- girl gets raped -guy gets rapped in jail-In his words, the song is a sort of poetic justice. Also written as an autobiographical song about how Kurt felt the record company and Vanity Fair raped him and his family with their treatment of him. Nirvana’s song Polly, is an anti-rape song about a rape of a girl tortured with a blowtorch-that Kurt actually read about in the newspaper.
After 911, some radio stations felt that some songs should be taken off of rotation, because they would be too emotional, or promote the wrong thoughts- Luckily, we all learned this was going to happen and we voiced our concerns and they didn’t go through with the ban. Here is a link to the songs-
http://www.newspeakdictionary.com/ct-banned_music.html
I agree with your point, and it is well taken.
B
The bands that Morgan saw that night, I was only familiar with Metallica- Which I think most are familiar with- if not check out their music.
I have since informed myself to who LOG and Gojira are.
Gojira, is pro-Earth- anti- raping of the Earth, at least that is was I take from the lyrics of the 2008 album “The Way Of The Flesh”. I am including a link to this album’s lyrics as I do not know what you will interpet them as- But shouldn’t we all be able to read them, sing them, without the threat of censorship? If we see them as too dark, we have the right to turn them off, and the duty to protect our children.
http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/gojira/thewayofallflesh.html#3
Lamb Of God- speaks against what they see as the hypocracy of organized religion and against War -that is what I get from reading their lyrics- they are basically death Metal’s answer to Creedence Clearwater Revival’s Fortunate Son- but instead of Vietnam it is Iraq. As you heard them say during the concert, they are for the soldier, they asked the fans to praise the soldiers, especially those serving from Virginia- check out the link and form your own opinions-
http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/lambofgod/wrath.html#12
You can prevent your children from listening to them, turn them off if you so choose, but please don’t make that choice for me or the thousands of fans that were in the arena that night, and couldn’t possibly of hurt Morgan.
Here is the song I am speaking of:
Now You’ve Got Something To Die For
Now you’ve got something to die for.
Infidel, Imperial
Lust for blood, a blind crusade
Apocalyptic, we count the days.
Bombs to set the people free, blood to feed the dollar tree
Flags for coffins on the screen, oil for the machine
Army of the liberation, gunpoint indoctrination
The fires of sedition
Fulfill the prophecy.
Now you’ve got something to die for.
Send the children to the fire, sons and daughters stack the pyre
Stoke the flame of the empire, live to lie another day
Face of hypocrisy, raping democracy
Apocalyptic, we count the days.
We’ll never get out of this hole until we’ve dug our own grave
And drug the rest down with us, the burning home of the brave
Burn.
Now you’ve got something to die for.
I am for ending violence but I can not support censorship.
Let us not attack Morgan’s dress or Morgan’s love of music, in the hopes that we can end violence. Morgan died before she had the chance to see Metallica, a Band she had waited 6 months to see. Do you think she is sitting up in Heaven with Joplin and the rest wanting us to let the bad guy trick us all into ending others chance to hear their favorite bands music? Do you think she blames Metallica, Gorja or Lamb Of God for what her killers did to her? Do you think she wants you to end Bonaroo or Floyd Fest because there is a chance her killer met her there?
Please, let’s stop this talk of ending violence through censorship. Let’s stop this talk about women demeaning themselves by their choice of music or dress. IMO I think we are only taking our fears and attacking those who do not deserve it. This is America, We are free to dress as we wish. We are free to listen to what we wish. We are free to turn the station, or prevent our children from reading, watching or listening to things we deem inappropriate.
I agree that there are sick individuals that will turn everything into something or someone that will provoke them into violence -even a beautiful young trusting concertgoer, who is in need of help. We need to find a better way to reach these people and stop them before their sickness can grow. I do not believe it is through censorship that we can stop anything except others freedom- Peace
“Amy Melvin traveled to Charlottesville to see the Metallica concert with Harrington, along with two others. Melvin said the group was separated from Harrington before the concert and did not see her during the concert.”
http://www.collegiatetimes.com/stories/14457/uva-police-searching-for-missing-tech-student
That is a somewhat different account of how the evening developed. Cannot vouch for the accuracy.
skyler, of course your friend could be right, and godnoze anything could happen when dealing with the sketchy world of illegal drugs, but right now I’m still aligning my thinking with the “Morgan was acting irrationally” official story. Now, whether they are saying “everyone thought Morgan was acting irrationally in the arena before she inexplicably ended up leaving,” or if they are saying “the fact that Morgan left the arena leads us to conclude that she was acting irrationally, cuz why else would she have left?”—I dunno. And I suppose the friends could be lying to the cops by saying Morgan was acting irrationally, but maybe LE is also basing that by other witness accounts. Again—I dunno. Wish we had more info.
Phyl and Alexandra, I still think it could be as simple as the friends saying “We drove to the concert, and then we drove home” and Dr. H. is assuming they meant they drove someone else’s car, and the friends are assuming he knows they drove Morgan’s car.
Could be a simple disconnect based on false assumptions. OR…could be something more, of course.
Kim, since the FBI has been involved almost from the first week, I’m sure they’ve more than scoured all the obvious leads: WT and DG and everyone else who claimed to have run into her that night or who seems overly concerned about her disappearance or who is posting suspiciously since then; the dude she was texting allegedly 60 miles away; anyone she interacted with on email or facebook or online where she talked about going to the show; current or former love interests; the friends; and any other obvious people I’m leaving out.
I mean…right? They MUST have scrutinized those folks. I hope.
In the early days of the investigation, Geller says, police reviewed hours of surveillance footage from the Arena …
so there was video
hypothetical covering well-worn territory-
Morgan and friends have arranged to get drugs from a college-aged drug dealer that they know of through some tangential connection. Morgan has handled the phone calls, so Morgan is designated to make the exchange. She tells the dealer to meet her in the JPJ parking lot. Dealer either (a) assumes that they will meet before Morgan scans her ticket to enter JPJ, or (b) is a pervert and is already thinking about the no-reentry policy as a strategic benefit.
Conversation between Morgan and drug dealer:
Drug dealer: “you haven’t been in yet, right?”
Morgan: “no, I have been in”
Drug dealer: “they’re not going to let you reenter”
Morgan: “WTF, are you serious”
this moment of frustration could explain granny’s sighting of a heated exchange between Morgan and a guy.
after trying with no luck to reenter, Morgan starts making her way towards 7-11 in the company of BIB / basketball players. Meanwhile, drug dealer is lurking on foot or in car, watching her. when she gets all the way to Ivy Rd, drug dealer pulls up and offers a ride to wherever she wants to go, or just to kill time until the end of the concert (it may even be raining at this point). Having nothing else to do, she gets in.
Drug dealer then invites Morgan to hang out at his house on Sutherland Rd, perhaps offering it as a place to do the drugs he has just sold to her. This is where she meets EMH, who if I’m not mistaken was once in trouble for smoking crack out of a soda can?