Kyron Horman Missing and Endangered: Grand Jury Meets, Indictment Imminent
Portland, OR- In the case of missing 7-year-old Portland child Kyron Horman, developments today continue to unfold at lightening speed.
During a poorly-kept secret convening of a special grand jury that is in session today, sources inside the investigation believe it’s triers of fact will return an indictment against Terri Horman and possibly one other individual.
It is however, unclear as to whether or not the grand jury is hearing evidence in the alleged murder for hire plot MCSO informed Kaine Horman his wife had master-minded, OR evidence surrounding the disappearance of Kaine and Desiree Young’s son Kyron.
KOIN caught Terri Horman’s friend DeDe Spicher, who was subpoenaed to appear in the proceedings this morning, on video with her attorney, entering the courthouse. Spicher was the subject of a public plea asking her to cooperate with investigators by Kaine Horman and Desiree Young last week. A neighbor of Spicher’s has confirmed the FBI has been seen removing boxes and unknown bagged material from her residence.
According to several sources, DeDe Spicher, Terri’s roommate post Kaine’s restraining order, was working in a garden near the Horman home the day of Kyron’s disappearance when she received a call at approximately 11:15 am. She left abruptly, returning at approximately 1:00 pm. DeDe was unreachable on her cell phone during that time and the property owner became concerned. Spicher is a long time friend and workout companion of Horman’s.
Earlier today, Laura Rackner, Kaine Horman’s Family Law attorney filed a motion to find out where the funds are coming from to foot the bill for Terri Horman’s high profile criminal defense attorney, Stephen Houze.
In Horman’s motion, he is seeking the disclosure of the payments made to Houze, and whether or not it came from marital funds. If it has, Kaine Horman wants half the cash to pay his own legal bills. Kaine Horman alleges that Terri Horman disclosed to a third party that she paid a whopping $350,000 retainer to Houze, however, provided no proof of same in the papers filed today.
In what appears to be a media timing coup, tonight’s episode of Dateline NBC will feature Kaine Horman, Desiree and Tony Young, with interviews and coverage of Kyron’s disappearance.
Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office Public Information Officer, Mary Lindstrand, has announced a press conference tomorrow at the MCSO Training Facility, beginning at 2:00 pm PST.
blinkoncrime editor Madeline Tanner contributed to this report
Related Posts
Related Posts:
3,353 Comments
RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI
Several posters have theorized that maybe someone threatening TMH has taken Kyron. I guess, hearing accounts of how much more she treasured her daughter, why would they not have tried to take her instead? I understand taking Kyron may be logistically easier, but surely someone knowing her enough to threaten for some reason, (if it is the Ls or whomever) would have know that baby girl is her treasure.
Just a thought.
This is my first post, but I’ve been reading all along. The question I would like answered is what device did TH use to take the infamous photo of Kyron in front of his project? Did she take it with her cell phone or a digicam? We know that she showed the photo to a casual acquaintance outside of FM. Since it is unlikely that the photo was an actual printed photo but rather a digital image, I want to know did she take it with her phone or her digicam? If she took it with her phone that would definitely corroborate that she at least had her cell phone WITH her at that point in time.
I take tons of photos with my Blackberry Curve. It takes such rocking photos that I rarely break out the digicam these days. Since Kaine is a techie at Intel, I’m guessing that her phone would have been a relatively new model with camera capability.
Anyway, hi to all. I’m from southern Indiana, mom of 2 grown daughters and a 12 week old grandson. This case has reached out and snatched up my heart and I have been following it closely. I’m ready to get in my car and drive to Portland and start beating the bushes myself.
Angela
Welcome.
B
It LE knew right off it was a kidnapping, what told them that that quickly or partly is that logical (and FBI profiling) as they quickly knew Ky wouldn’t wander off?
I am just learning as I start to tune in that most of these are family-related, still there have been strangers in other cases.
So what about negotiating with the kidnapper(s) and you say it wasn’t TH who took him, but we’re thinking she helped plan it? But motivation was sexual in the end, yes?. I heard it speculated that maybe KH did already pay someone and he made that quote about willing to pay anything.
So much going on that we don’t get to know now, sign…
Hopefully it is going well with Le >GJ > DA > PRISON! How many will go?
“I will tell you what it is. This case was believed to be a kidnapping for ransom out of the gate.
B”
*****************************************
This is very interesting, Blink.
I suspected this was a possibility when I read that LE was staying at the Horman home in the first few weeks after Kyron’s disappearance. But, one has to wonder what exactly led LE to suspect a kidnapping for ransom so quickly.
Well, I think that everything we’ve heard tells us Terri is quite an actress.
She managed an attempted MFH plot while Kaine not even realizing anything was wrong.
She appeared on the front to be quite the loving mother and devoted wife.
At the same time she is coming on camera “comforting” Kaine and Desiree, she is also sexting MC and initiating an affair.
Yep, this chick can put up the front. People that good at it have probably been doing it their whole lives, and it worked. She probably can’t understand why it didn’t work this time. I bet she thought no one would even look at her because she was confident that all saw her for the wonderful loving motherly image she so carefully painted for everyone as opposed to the person she really is.
I keep thinking about the multiple FM locations she visited. There are also other stores in the Imbrie FM location—restaurants, hair salons, UPS Store—where she could’ve met up with someone, paid off someone—done any type of transaction for whatever she was up to that morning regarding Kyron. Seems like she was on a mission that morning. Just saying.
@ Mockingbird and Puzzled, thank you so much for your reply. I am glad I asked.
A kidnapping for ransom? Well, no wonder LE was suspicious from the get-go. How rare and implausible that a regular middle class family from NW Portland would be the target of kidnappers! A Fargo plot, but without the million?
Maybe there was a ranson demand sent along w/ the glasses. TH could have made a ransom demand under guise of somebody else. She may have known KH would pay up the whazoo if he had too. I don’t know. Then again, TH’s uncooperativeness could be she denies any knowledge of anyone associated with such an act, which maybe they dont believe. I think it is rather convaluted and they need to get their ducks in a row, who did what, who conspired, etc. The potential people who said they would kidnap for a ransom may have had other intentions with a little boy. That is if one were to feel TH was not involved in any murder plan. I just dont think it is cut and dry. There maybe many crimes commited in the coarse of this event(s). JMO.
@ MackiezMom says:
August 24, 2010 at 1:08 am
“I would think that they would take HER child, though, rather than her step-son. I mean…hmmm… if they knew it would be all over the news, and didn’t know that they’d have all day to get away, why not snatch the baby that looks just like her?”
———- and:
@ BostonMom says:
August 24, 2010 at 10:01 am
“I guess, hearing accounts of how much more she treasured her daughter, why would they not have tried to take her instead?”
~~~~~~
I do see the disconnect there. I agree that taking the baby would have likely have punished TH more, but based on Blink’s stated feeling that this is a sexually motivated crime, and that TH “let the vampire in”, I kinda think that the threat to TH was either secondary or equal to Kyron being a sexual target. Pedophiles often have a preference, and Kyron may have fit this monster’s bill.
Plus, if MBGs (Miscellaneous Bad Guys) were familiar with the school, and with TH’s schedule (by following her FB or whatever) they may have felt it would be easier to snatch Kyron.
I feel like TH gave the MBGs the “reason” and opportunity to do what they really wanted to do anyway.
I hope I’m wrong.
38.BostonMom says:
August 24, 2010 at 10:01 am
Several posters have theorized that maybe someone threatening TMH has taken Kyron. I guess, hearing accounts of how much more she treasured her daughter, why would they not have tried to take her instead? I understand taking Kyron may be logistically easier, but surely someone knowing her enough to threaten for some reason, (if it is the Ls or whomever) would have know that baby girl is her treasure.
Just a thought.
_____________________________________
It’s logical to go there with that theory. But..it’s crucial to establish what PRIOR events were leading up to Ky’s disappearance. Facing a marriage gone bad she started heading down the path of self destruction with her extramarital affair(s), alleged MFH plot, plus I personally doubt TH ever bonded with Kyron. She chose this path that lead to Kyron’s disappearance.
From Seamus O’Riley today:
“The Grand Jury continues as an investigatory tool.
However, when a GJ reaches the point of questioning the investigators, it may indicate that a decision to indict may be close.
Stay tuned…”
http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2010/08/kyron-horman-grand-jury-continues.html
Re taking Kiara instead of Kyron – everybody watches a baby or toddler and the places you leave them are relatively secure (barring violence). Of course a toddler could be taken but it’s unlikely you’d get the opportunity without doing something riskier like breaking into a bedroom or being seen by a witness. It’s also possible that Terri talked so much about hating Kaine that she convinced the kidnapper(s) her marriage was breaking up – Kaine (as far as we know) was the one with the money, but I’m sure he would have been as heartbroken to lose any child, including James, and would have paid ransom (with LE) no matter who was taken. (Terri might not have thought so.)
However, someone could have sold Kiara to a family for “adoption”, plus she was too young to tell what happened when returned. So perhaps the ease of dealing with her would have been worth the risk.
Terri is the only person I can think of who, given a choice, would have undoubtedly chosen to put (or recommended) Kyron through a kidnapping experience rather than Kiara for ransom even if she were expecting nothing physically harmful to happen. Well, maybe DeDe would.
But unrelated kidnappers would have gone with (1) Terri’s choice if she were planning it, or (2) the most valuable victim, or (3) the easiest, least risky opportunity, or any combination of the above.
Blink – if you want to answer – if you said before, I missed it, sorry.
I believe LE thought it was a possible kidnapping very quickly (first day – I did, because none of the reasons why a kid would “wander off” from school fit Kyron) – but where did the ransom idea come from that first day? It seems that kidnapping for ransom is less frequent than by sex offender, for example, but I could be wrong.
From Terri’s “hysterical” (according to James) behavior (talk)?
A first sign of some sort by a kidnapper? (weren’t the glasses mentioned later?)
An assumption (SOP) at the beginning of every kidnapping? (Kaine has money but he doesn’t appear to be rich.)
Based on no scent of Kyron detected past the school parking lot (someone could have carried him)?
I assumed when the family stayed put and quiet and LE stayed there too, that they were waiting for some contact, but that doesn’t explain why THEY thought so “out of the gate”. Do you think there was something more? (Well, I left you open for a yes or no answer only, unfortunately. I’m smiling, but my smiles turn out as a square here for some reason, so I’ll just say it.)
Is it possible that Kaine paid a ransom at some point and that is why he is so interested in where TH got the money to pay her attorney?
I am mostly a reader. Occasionally I’ll put in a thought or a ramble, but I usually get slapped down by someone for my opinions so then I just retreat and go back to reading.
Ok here’s my latest 3 a.m. thought. It’s really bad when you keep going over and over and over this stuff and you can’t sleep.
Sometimes I feel that if I just go over it ONE MORE TIME, I’ll figure something out that we all missed. Hasn’t happened so far. Anyway, I woke up thinking, “Why would Terri go to so much trouble to make sure she had alibis for some places, but not others? I mean, she went to the trouble to make sure people saw her with Kyron at the science fair, tell the Dr. appt. story, go to the 1st FM and buy something to get a receipt, show Kyron’s picture to an acquaintance, etc., and possibly already had a bat phone in her possession, but first, why didn’t she make sure LOTS of people saw her leave the school alone? You would think she would have been yelling, ‘Goodbye!! See you later!!’ or whatever and that also since she was a teacher and known at the school, at least SEVERAL people would have seen her going out, at least glanced at her.” But I’ve never read that in all the blogs. I think I’ve read maybe 1 or 2 people say they saw her walking away or whatever, but you would think a whole bunch would have seen her. I mean, even when you’re rushing for whatever reason taking your kids to school, you may not always have time to stop and talk but you do SEE the people you know. And let’s face it, the long red hair would stand out. So she must have gone out the back door, unconcerned at that point with having an alibi? IDK, maybe lots of people did see her leave, but I didn’t read that anywhere, and I’ve been reading since Day One. But there’s so much to read I could have missed it.
Did someone say there was a maintenance room or whatever under the stairs at the back of the school? What if LS’s truck was parked there? I think Kyron was told to go outside to see the “electric” project, which didn’t exist, or maybe to get in the truck, and was jumped right then and there by LS. He unknowingly walked straight into the arms of danger. What if LS chloroformed Kyron? (Did LE check the maintenance room for presence of something like this? Chloroform was still present in Casey Anthony’s car trunk WEEKS after Caylee went missing.) Anyway, so a container is loaded into the LS truck and LS leaves. TH is already gone, headed for the first FM to create her alibi. They meet up at the second FM at a pre-planned time. Moo
I feel certain TH never had Kyron with her when she left the school and he was taken by someone else per a plan that she helped with. I mean, she had to haul ass as it was, just to make it to the FM and get a receipt by 9:12 a.m. (I think that’s the time, although it doesn’t jive with Andrea Leckey’s story of seeing Terri between 9:30 and 10 a.m., because why would you buy something at 9:12 a.m. and then stick around the store for another 20-40 minutes or so? – someone correct me here if I’ve got that timing wrong), and the 9:12 receipt means she actually walked INTO the store earlier than that. Kyron wasn’t with her at that point, and she just didn’t have time to ditch him somewhere. She had someone else do the dirty work. Moo
Anyway, back to the alibi/lack of alibi, WHY drive around all over the place without an alibi and with your cell phone pinging, after carefully orchestrating up to that point? Ok, she had to have her regular phone with her even if she had a bat phone, because what if the school called to ask where Kyron was? Or what if Kaine called and said the school had called HIM? I too think something went wrong at this point. I think she was supposed to go straight from the second FM to the gym (what’s this getting medicine for Kiara that the first FM didn’t have – whatever, must be SOME special medicine if all the other stores in town didn’t have it either). Anyway, she’s supposed to be at the gym but something happens. Maybe Ky was just supposed to be kidnapped but then the container was opened at the second FM where TH met LS, and Kyron was deceased and he wasn’t supposed to be – again same scenario as Caylee Anthony which TH could have very well been aware of. So then there’s a panic situation for about 1 1/2 hours and she forgets her cell phone is pinging (is this when the phone pinged on SI?), and then TH shows up at the gym later than planned and gives herself another alibi. Moo
So whatever went wrong, it was fixed in 1 1/2 hours and then she went to the gym. That’s not a whole lot of time to work with. Maybe it’s not that complicated. Maybe Kyron IS somewhere close by where LE has been searching, but they just haven’t found him yet. I was thinking of the Chandra Levy case, where she went missing and they found that she had looked up Rock Creek Park on her computer. She practically TOLD THEM where to look for her. So LE searched it and searched it, had dogs sniffing and the whole thing, and they didn’t find her. Then her remains were discovered, what, a year later? Guess where? Rock Creek Park. It was an area of the park that was just more secluded, more brushy. This is NOT a knock on LE by any means. I just think when you get into massively huge areas that are densely populated with trees, brush, water, whatever, it’s a damn near impossible task to find something that someone has hidden. Maybe TH and LS were driving around (in separate vehicles) looking for a place to bury a container, thus the pinging in different areas. Then they settled on Sauvie Island for lack of a more secluded spot. TH drives over there with LS but then it’s decided that LS will go in without her as she needs to get to where she can establish an alibi. LS has a pass to get in the gate. LS goes and takes care of the container in a REALLY secluded spot. So TH DOESN’T know exactly where Kyron is, but she knows what happened and she is involved. Moo
I agree that the motive for all this was revenge in a twisted way of thinking – but to add to that I think Terri secretly HATED Kyron and in fact NEVER loved him to begin with. He was to her an annoyance and a target for abuse. Kyron couldn’t even come out of his room in the morning without permission? Most parents who love their children CHERISH the moments when their innocent little ones come and climb in the parents’ bed sometimes, looking for love and security. I know it’s not always convenient, but kids grow up so fast it seems that some inconveniences would be tolerated. I don’t understand this kind of “house rule” and I don’t understand why both Terri and Kaine would have established and upheld it. Kids will often get up at night because they’re having some kind of problem (insecure, frightened, sick). By the accounts I read, this little guy was begging for attention in so many ways. This is the part where I get really sad thinking about sweet, trusting little children who just want to be loved, and how people can just louse that up sometimes either deliberately or unintentionally.
These were my thoughts at 3 a.m. Needless to say I did not sleep well the rest of the night. Please feel free to correct whatever I’ve got wrong here or slap me down again and I’ll go back to reading.
“I will tell you what it is. This case was believed to be a kidnapping for ransom out of the gate.
B”
**************
If this is the case, I got to say I am more than a bit shocked and angered.
- Hundreds of thousands of dollars from the Mult. Co budget were wasted on a huge search effort. If a child is legitimately lost in the woods, will there be enough resources to mount a search?
- Hundreds of volunteers from around the state left their families (many incurred out-of-pocket expenses) to trudge around in the rain for days on end.
-A community rallied together to provide food and support to searchers, with many business generously donating resources in very tough economic times for Oregon (10% unemployment rates).
-Property owners in the area have had their properties searched and researched, opening themselves up to scrutiny.
If the search effort was all an elaborate smoke screen for appearances so that LE could conduct a covert investigation, I for one, am going to feel incredibly betrayed by my Sheriff’s Dept. Our community (and the rest of the nation) has been rocked for Kyron’s disappearance. The last thing we need is to feel lied to and manipulated by the people sworn to protect us.
Now back to my mantra, “Please God, bring Kyron home safely.”
It seems to me that it would be a lot harder and more risky
to grab Kiara than Kyron
do people grab small toddlers as often
I really don’t know
GraceintheHills says:
August 24, 2010 at 12:15 pm
“I will tell you what it is. This case was believed to be a kidnapping for ransom out of the gate.
B”
*****************************************
This is very interesting, Blink.
I suspected this was a possibility when I read that LE was staying at the Horman home in the first few weeks after Kyron’s disappearance. But, one has to wonder what exactly led LE to suspect a kidnapping for ransom so quickly.
*******************************************
@ ‘Grace’:
I agree. Very interesting!
I also recall that B had put forth a possible scenario of Kyron’s *actual* glasses/frames being placed in the Hormans’ mailbox—possibly with a ‘ransom note’ of some kind.
It has also been mentioned on this site, the possibility that the fliers/questionnaires that were to be filled out and sent back to MCSD investigators was really an excuse to obtain handwriting samples for comparison (but I DNR whether Blink was the one who had suggested this or not)
Although, she has stated that this hasn’t been confirmed by LE publicly, we who frequent this site, also are aware that B doesn’t tend to go off speculating where there without a firm basis from which to draw her hypotheses.
What intrigues me most about this scenario is:
Did the perpetrators *originally* plan this abduction as a way to extort money—OR— Was this a sloppy attempt made by the perpetrators to make it *appear* that way, in an attempt to draw suspicion away from TMH and her conspirators, and possibly hamper investigators from figuring out what *really* happened to Ky???
IMHO, either avenue of thought could potentially have merit… and I’d be really interested in whether or not any of you who have put thought into the ‘ransom’ scenario have reason to feel one vs. the other explanation is most plausible.
Anybody feel like sharing? : )
So…what if the said kidnappers didn’t know Kyron is Terri’s SS? He then of course would be the easiest target. I agree she owes the wrong people $$ (not sure for what?). Once the kidnappers figured out through the media/Terri Kyron is her SS then their plan backfired. She isn’t going to pay for or now incriminate herself for Kaine & Desiree’s son.
I’m sure I missed this but do we know what her online business dealings were?
If someone was threatening TH??? and TH believes this is the person who took Kyron??? – could this be the reason why TH didn’t fight Kaine on taking her baby girl??? Is this why TH remains secluded in her parents’ home??? Is this why she has never looked for Kyron??? Is this why she keeps her mouth shut after months of Kyron’s Mom pleading with her to cooperate???
Is there any validity in that thought process?
I doubt there is validity in my thought process because I think TH would sacrifice her own baby girl to save her own @$$. This, of course, is MHO only.
O.K. so LE thinks/thought it was a kidnapping for ransom out of the gate. Kaine Horman does not present as a millionaire type so who would target him and why? It could only be Terri trying another way to free herself of him. Kaine himself admitted he did not allow her to spend much money. Since the house is not in her name, she has no income of her own and the MFH plot failed, she thought of another way to get the money she needed for her and Kiara to live on their own. This is why everyone thinks Kyron’s still alive and “stashed” somewhere. This is the reason for all the secrecy and probably why Terri won’t talk and LE won’t arrest her…might trigger the murder of Kyron. This is why they didn’t look for him and why LE said it was an isolated incident. I’m assuming the ransom note came with his glasses in the mailbox.
So I’m wondering what the status is now? Did Kaine pay the ransom? Has there been any communication from the kidnappers? This scenario would again validate my theory that they needed the 7 hour lead time to get him out of state or, perhaps, out of the country and stash him somewhere where people would not know who he was. I don’t think they anticipated the huge reaction that his disappearance created nation-wide. Perhaps that is why they can’t return him…they can’t get him back into this country without being caught and arrested.
I also want to say that I think Terri’s casual attitude about his disappearance (hitting the gym, enjoying clean sheets, sexting, etc.) was not because she is a callous child-killer. Quite the opposite. I beleive that she was casual because she knew that he was alive and would eventually be returned so, nothing to be upset about.
I beleive 100% that she is involved in his disappearance but I do not beleive that she killed him or intended to have him killed.
There is one thing though that I can’t reconcile. Blink mentioned a sexual motive which makes me thing of child porn or slavery. Why would he be kidnapped for ransom if they intended him for those purposes? The two don’t fit together in my mind. Could Terri have sold Ky and still wanted to get her hands on some ransome money? She must have really hated Kaine. This is as much about vengeance as it is about money.
Sorry if I’m rambling. I’m literally thinking this out as I’m typing. It is all, of course, MOO.
I know people who like you to know how much money they have or have access to. On the surface, it seems like Terri has this personality trait. It’s been said she texted MC that she had a $350k attorney. Is it possible her other “acquaintances” believed she had access to loads of money as well? Maybe it’s just a simple kidnapping – one of her boyfriends/girlfriends thought it would be a good way to cash in. Maybe she didn’t take part in the planning but had heard the possibility brought up and said “no”.
Maybe “they” carried out “the plan” anyway hence the panic that morning and look of guilt/bewilderment at the first TV appearance. It explains the request for handwriting samples, LE staying at the house, searches of the immediate area.
If the kidnapper(s) finally realized there wasn’t any money, what then? I would have dropped him off somewhere and fled the country, but I’m not a kidnapper. What do you do with a little boy that you can’t collect ransom for? Find someone else willing to pay?
I’m probably either way off base or way behind with this theory and I apologize for sounding creepy. I really want to believe he’s alive out there.
Thank you Blink for this site. I don’t go anywhere else now.
“I suspected this was a possibility when I read that LE was staying at the Horman home in the first few weeks after Kyron’s disappearance. But, one has to wonder what exactly led LE to suspect a kidnapping for ransom so quickly.”
A common form of ransom evidence is usually a note. Say they did find a ransom note. If true, could also be more staging by TH to throw off investigators. moo!
Let me refine my thought process. We’re surmising now that LE decided in mid-June (?) that it was not a kidnapping for ransom. But what we want to ask is what insight do we get about LE’s theories and/or evidence from the fact that they thought it a kidnapping for ransom?
Kidnapping 101, a misc. factoid from wikipedia: “Kidnappings for profit that do occur in or into the United States today are often connected to other ongoing criminal activity, such as human trafficking.”
Because TH was cooperating with LE for awhile initially, I often wonder how much she did tell them. Maybe about Rudy.
Of course she told them about Rudy, just not the truth.
B
Suspected kidnapping? Ok so lets assume that Kyron’s glasses were found in the mailbox. {I read that awhile back on this site}. What time is the mail delivered, was the mail already taken out of the mailbox by Teri or kaine, when were they discovered in the mailbox? And who found them?
It is interesting to note that on the sheriffs on Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office website there was a briefing statement that said:
http://www.mcso.us/public/newsroom.htm
“To add to that information, we have on display the likenesses of the shirt, pants, socks and shoes Kyron was wearing on the day of his disappearance. The pants displayed here are of the same style Kyron was wearing, but those he was last seen in were darker. Otherwise these clothes represent identifying items in this search.”
It showed pics of glasses, shirt, pants, socks and shoes. Note that the statement doesn’t say “likeness of glasses”, but does state likeness of other items but shows pic of all items including glasses.
If the kidnappers really wanted to get back at Teri then they could have ambushed her at the house and taken the baby, a lot less risky then going into a public school where the kidnappers would not be in control of the situation. With or without a disguise…knocked on the door, pushed Teri aside, grab the baby, cut phone wire and take cell phone and left.
So if it’s true that they have his glasses, then the last person to see Kyron is the one who took them. Maybe that’s why the family didn’t appear in public pleading for their son immediately afterwards. When the dust settled down it became obvious that Teri was involved then came the public pleadings for her to cooperate.
Don’t buy the kidnapping, I will buy that Teri planned it and tried to make it look like a kidnapping … a pretty clumsy kidnapping at best. Hmmm, I wonder if she discussed any type of kidnapping scenario with the LS when she was planning the MFH? When did LE stop thinking Kyron wondered away?
I don’t think this will turn into a cold case, not with all the law agencies on board. I’m sure a novice kidnapper/stepmother can’t outsmart the FBI. They know how to read people, they know what true terror looks like on an innocent person, one can’t fake that. Oh yes, I do see an arrest coming very soon.
“What intrigues me most about this scenario is:
Did the perpetrators *originally* plan this abduction as a way to extort money—OR— Was this a sloppy attempt made by the perpetrators to make it *appear* that way, in an attempt to draw suspicion away from TMH and her conspirators, and possibly hamper investigators from figuring out what *really* happened to Ky???
IMHO, either avenue of thought could potentially have merit… and I’d be really interested in whether or not any of you who have put thought into the ‘ransom’ scenario have reason to feel one vs. the other explanation is most plausible.
Anybody feel like sharing? : )
_______________________________________
YES! I think this is right on:
“Was this a sloppy attempt made by the perpetrators to make it *appear* that way, in an attempt to draw suspicion away from TMH and her conspirators, and possibly hamper investigators from figuring out what *really* happened to Ky???”
————————————-
I believe Terri wanted to rid herself of Ky…period, never to be found, never to be returned. This was a planned abduction. Ky went with someone he knew.
A couple of weeks back I posted that I believe he’s been moved, via underground drug distribution channels, to Mexico and a payment demand is being made. I still believe that makes sense.
However, the big target isn’t Kaine…it’s Intel, his employer.
How would Intel look if they decided not to cough up a couple million dollars in exchange for a young child?
Food for thought.
Your kidding me right?
A middle mgt architect engineer- you think his kid is going to fetch millions from Intel?
Respectfully, corporate espionage as the root cause here??
B
ChiaPet517 says:
August 24, 2010 at 1:15 pm
I agree with everything you said. Without Terri’s help, I don’t see how someone would have even known what location in the school KH would be that morning and it would be risky for a stranger to get that close to the building and then get away unnoticed.
Ok well no one slapped me down this time on that last entry, so I’m feeling a little braver to comment again. I’m beginning to think John Walsh is right, this case will be solved in the media (Blink and her website absolutely included in a big way!) We keep inching a teeny bit closer every day.
Okay kidnapping for RANSOM? Of a middle-class family in a practically rural, if not totally rural, community in Portland, Oregon. Well that takes the cake. Usually a kidnapping is planned on a family that has gazillions of dollars. I mean, I think this might be what happened but I can’t believe how incredibly transparent it is. Terri doesn’t want Kyron around so she arranges this ridiculous kidnapping scheme in order to get rid of him? I guess she was stupid enough to think she would get some of the money? No way, uh-uh. I mean, let’s say LS is the perp and the ransom money was delivered to him AND he actually got away with it (not likely). Does anyone actually think LS would then contact Terri and return to the scene to give her some of the money? Or meet her somewhere with the world watching? Heck no, he’d be out of the country so fast your head would spin around like Linda Blair’s.
And how the eff do you pull off a kidnapping anymore anyway? It’s just a really complicated way to get money and it hardly ever works. If you’re the perp, then the moment you pick up the money at the drop site you have 50 FBI or whatever on your ass. What a stupid plan. IMO, it does seem plausible that this “kidnapping” was set up by Terri, and the glasses were stuck in the mailbox by her “helper” to make it look real and point any accusations away from Terri. But no contact for ransom money was ever made, so LE stopped staying at the house because the call never came for some reason. Why not? Anyway, LE figured out that it wasn’t gonna happen, so they split the scene. But I’m still confused as to why LS went to LE with the MFH story. Why not just stay under cover and let LE try and catch up to you (if they can find you) and THEN tell the MFH story? (Actually, maybe that’s what happened). Terri wanted Kyron out of her life once and for all, and she wanted to make Kaine and Desiree miserable in the process (this would also get Desiree out of her life). Terri couldn’t stand Kyron and she wanted Kaine on his knees. But something didn’t go as planned, so she ran around trying to cover. What was it? I think we’re closing in on this. MOO
Excellent posts!
Yes, I believe TH & friends attempted to alledge a kidnapping w/ ransom. Maybe a friend popped the glasses along w/ a note into the mail. But, to include the sexual aspect many of us perceive to be true, they wouldn’t just borrow Kyron while waiting on a ransom demand. He was taken specifically for a sexual reason, imo , and I believe there was a financial factor for her as well as convenience. I also don’t think he was killed in the 10-11:30 timeframe( sorry:(), I think he was taken to another area/state or whatever. Otherwise, there is no time for the sexual deviance to occurr really. (Makes you wonder about the man in the truck sighting of Kyron, I dont know it may not be relevent.)I also believe that LE came to that conclusion, hence the searches ceased abruptly. Recent searches may be for evidence of another kind.
I still can not decide if TH took Ky away from the school and transferred him to someone at the FM or not. LE eluded to unusual activity in the parking lot, but Blink also spoke of Ky disappearing into the vortex at school. I think LS may have been at the school w/ a white truck that day. And I dont think Ky knew he was leaving the school that day, otherwise he would have brought his coat/stuff. I have a hangup w/ these items.
Chiapet you should post more often, enjoyed reading your thoughts. I am not sure a vehicle could have driven up to the gate by the maintenance door, there is a chained gate, and that other guy was mowing. But, the thought that Ky was chlorophormed or the like is possible. You wonder if TH bought any supplies to the abductor and transferred them to him at the FM? Hair dye, clothing whatever. Should would love to see her receipt. Did she speak with Lackey at the 1st or 2nd FM? Maybe that is why the times are off. I also believe as far as mistreating Kyron, TH likely wore many ‘hats’ depending on who was present, furthering Kyron’s confusion. I think the fb postings about him were filled with snide remarks for the world to see,to show all that she was to endure while caring for him.
I think in the end we will find that TH is a spoiled, bored housewife who has had years of insecurity issues along w/ substance abuse. DD a lonely, unemployed woman w/ issues. They needed each other and their activities led to these cesspool people who stole Kyron for their disgusting needs. I am afraid we will never find him. God bless you Kyron .
My guess is someone thought these
people had lots of money
James was older
Kaira was being photoed by mom constantly
and to young
that left sweet little Kyron
jmo
Thanks, Blink. I had not been thinking of her telling them anything about Rudy, the family landscaper(ha!), that early.
So, the night of June 4 and over the weekend, LE found no murder scene. The dogs found no scent trail from schl. into the woods (though they searched anyway, just to be sure he didn’t wander off). LE decided it was a kidnapping for ransom and moved in with the Hormans to await the ransom demand, which never came.
Before long, LE has cell phone texting/sexting records btwn. TH and Rudy. And for some reason they lock Rudy up or take him into “protective custody” real good and tight. Because he’s thought to be a material witness to something. Something involving Ky? Or just something involving TH’s naughty behavior unrelated to Ky directly?
For some reason Rudy is implicated in something and constructs the MFH tale. Let’s assume LE didn’t do that themselves. The sting is played out; TH fails to incriminate herself.
July 8 Anselmo is arrested; later transferred to fed. prison. Was he missing from Skyline since June 4 and just surfaced on July 8?
(There’s a lot of intervening noise, signifying nothing much except that LE is trying to determine what role TH may have played in Ky’s disappearance. And the family is piling on, trying to pressure TH. And the media is desperate for “on the record” news from LE.)
LE already has the perp(s) who grabbed Ky and committed/gave Ky rather quickly to someone who committed a sex crime against Ky (unless B. has lead me down the primrose path all this time). Who did that and where? Just one of the boys for his own warped fun?
LE initially viewed it as a kidnapping for ransom, but there was never a ransom demand. Ky was the victim of a sex crime, and that is the motive and always was. Let’s assume none of Ky’s family were pedophiles or producing child porn. Just to keep it simple.
The simplest explanation is still that one of the latino landscapers grabbed Ky at school, committed a sex crime against him at school; murdered him and destroyed his body there or moved his body elsewhere that day before LE brought the dogs in.
Let’s assume that when Rudy testified at the GJ he gave incriminating evidence against his pal. LE still wants corroborating evidence on that. And they still want to know whether TH was directly involved in the crimes against Ky.
From initial LE theory to LE’s current working hypothesis. Maybe
You lost me at the murdered at the school part. I would not say that is the simplest solution or the most feasible.
I know what kind of forensic equipment these agencies have, there is no chance he was killed at that school, imo.
B
Kozyotb says:August 24, 2010 at 2:23 pm
I’m sure I missed this but do we know what her online business dealings were?
—————
Thank you for posting that question, Kozyotb… In the past few days, there have been several posts implying that Terri had an online business of some sort, and several more pointed ones saying she had involvement in some kind of online porn enterprise.
BUT, I’ve never seen it clearly articulated or any links/hints of links to verify it myself.
People here have alluded to it.. so, anyone want to go on a limb for Kozyotb and me and spell it out? What was TH’s secret online business?
I don’t usually post anything other than just my hopes for Kyron to be found, but I do wonder about this… I’ve read several posts here about Kyron possibly being taken out of the country. I know the Canadian border is much closer to Portland than the Mexican border. But I’m really concerned/worried about this. If LS had something to do with it, surely they must have relatives in Mexico (and I say that based on information I’ve read about possible illegal alien stuff, etc.). I can tell you, I live in SoCal, my family is Mexican, and I’m familiar with certain things about Mexico. It is easy (very easy) for somebody to just drive in to Mexico. Passports and the like are not checked driving into the country. It’s only coming out of the country. If Kyron was taken there, there are SO MANY places down there that would have NO IDEA who Kyron is. I even checked the main spanish station (Univision), and I saw nothing about Kyron.
I’m just so sad and worried about this little guy. Unbelievable. I just keep envisioning him being scared and lonely and sad.
God be with you Kyron. You are in the hearts of many. My prayers are for him to be found safe and brought home to DY and KH. As everybody else says…MOO.
RE: 23 Beejay summary of events and Blink’s response: You lost me at the murdered at the school part. I would not say that is the simplest solution or the most feasible.
I know what kind of forensic equipment these agencies have, there is no chance he was killed at that school, imo.
B
________
I just want to say, now we’re connecting the dots and staying on track.
snap-
Respectfully, I am very proud of the readers and contributors here. You will find our work has solved a few cases in my short tenure. There is a rhythm to this work, that is directly tied to outcomes, and that is my soul responsibility.
I have a parrot on my shoulder already in this case. His name is Kyron, and I work for him.
My point is, I am very cautious about driving dialogue and I know what I am doing; I do not want readers to be put off by some of your feedack because you may or may not agree with an insight. K?
Tia-
B
errr, I meant #25 Beejay’s comments (not 23)
Nancy says:
August 24, 2010 at 1:01 pm
From Seamus O’Riley today:
“The Grand Jury continues as an investigatory tool.
However, when a GJ reaches the point of questioning the investigators, it may indicate that a decision to indict may be close.
Stay tuned…”
* * * * * * * * * *
Physical evidence that law enforcement has collected, which is relevant to the case, generally comes in through the investigators, who will explain to the jurors what they found, where they found it, the significance, chain of custody, etc. Hopefully, this is a good sign that they are progressing towards justice for Kyron.
I forgot to ask about the grand jury & LE. How does that work w/ them testifying? Are they posed questions about their investigative tech- nique, findings or are they questionned about their interpretaions of their findings, or both?
Like “Ok sir, based on the info you have obtained, what conclusion do you reach about xyz?”
Or, “What did Mrs. Horman say about her days activities?”
Following up with your comments about how LE treated this as a possible kidnapping for ransom . . ..
Do you think, Blink, that if Terry was involved with Kyron being kidnapped, could her motive be a kind of Munchausen’s Syndrome by Proxy (rather than revenge or money?)
In other words, could she be motivated to create drama and chaos for the attention (she thought) it might bring, in the same way a mother might sicken her child — never expecting of course that things might get out of hand.
That is not my personal belief, no.
B
To me it seems, no one knows anymore about the where abouts of Kyron today than they did June 4th. I think if you want don’t want your children around any more, you just kill them right out in open daylight then lie, lie, lie and refuse to talk to authorities and you go scot free. Sickens me to death. They solved more crimes 50 years ago than they do now.
“It’s just two weeks away from the first day back for Skyline elementary students. And the creator of Kyron’s Wall of Hope is no closer to finding a new home for the mementos on the school’s fence that have taken on a life of their own.”
“The move comes after Kyron’s father, Kaine Horman, announced on Aug. 16 that he, the Portland Public School District and the creator of the wall believe a relocation is the best thing for school safety once classes begin.”
“… Portland Public Schools administration bars media use of school grounds with this note sent out Monday: “To provide as welcoming an environment as possible, media are asked to no longer use the school parking lot.”
http://www.katu.com/news/local/101330539.html
Kyron grand jury could continue for months
PORTLAND — A Multnomah County grand jury investigating the disappearance of Kyron Horman could continue for months, according to information from the presiding judge.
KGW has learned that Judge Jean Kerr Maurer issued an order from August 20th through October 29th restricting any audio or visual recording of witnesses coming or going from the grand jury room. Maurer had issued a similar order in early August but it had since expired.
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Kyron-Horman-grand-jury-meets-again-101339004.html
Blink: I said murdered at the school, harkening back to your discussions very early on about whether or not the school had an incinerator or such, and how that was your fear. Perhaps you weren’t seriously suggesting that.
OR, perhaps it DID happen at school and we just don’t know that yet. Well, Blinksters don’t. Maybe Blink does.
It IS simple, but there’s a good chance of getting caught, as you said. So, maybe the perp did get caught, based on physical evidence that came back from the lab a few weeks later. And so, he’s now locked up. Not too smart.
Oy vey, what a lousy summer. Calgon, take me away!
I’ll let y’all guess
B
Is there any information about what was on her receipt at 9:12 am? The thing about Fred Meyer is that they’re pretty big stores. I mean, assuming she parked pretty far out away from the store, had to get a toddler out of the car and walk to the store . . . she couldn’t have gotten too far into the store. The pharmacy is usually up front, but wasn’t the purpose of going to the second store because the first didn’t have the medicine? So, either she had to wait in line at the pharmacy to find that out, or walk to the middle portions of the store (where OTC meds are kept) *and* make another, different purchase, in (MOO) record time. I would be hard pressed as just one person to get to a FM, make a purchase (after finding out what I wanted wasn’t there) and get checked out in 12 minutes. Not too mention tote along a sick toddler. It doesn’t add up for me. There had to be someone else at that point who provided her with the receipt. I mean, it’s not impossible that she was able to do it, but she would have been rushing. That says to me that someone else in that FM gave her the receipt, or baring that, she picked one up from the trash or from the self serve area (I always leave mine there). I would sure love to see that receipt.
What’s interesting to me is why neither the jailed Anselmo Sanchez (assuming he IS involved with this crime) nor (also jailed?) Rudy Sanchez are speaking up about Kyron’s whereabouts. (I’m also assuming that they really are two different people, though I’m not entirely convinced that they are.) I mean, it sounds like they are (he is?) BUSTED. Wouldn’t they (he?) be speaking up now, trying to get a plea bargain, and get off with a lightened sentence? Why the *#&$ aren’t they talking about Kyron’s whereabouts?
I continue to believe that Terri is directly involved in this crime, and that she knew the kidnapping (going with Blink’s clues here) would happen on June 4th. The doctor’s appointment confusion says it all to me. Yet, I also believe that Kyron did NOT leave the school with her (as Blink has also stated), but instead with Rudy or some other accomplice–with Terri’s full knowledge (and perhaps her direction?). However, I also agree with the folks that say Terri doesn’t have a clue where Kyron is.
But surely Rudy/Anselmo do? Weird.
I think Blink posted a while back 2 possible scenarios for June 4th, both of which involved “backfiring” of various sorts. I can’t find that post now, but it keeps coming back to me.
Here’s where I’m at now: Terri conspired with RS/AS/other accomplices to stage the kidnapping. Something went wrong, either because RS/AS duped her….or something happened to Kyron that wasn’t supposed to. And, here we are.
Anybody have any thoughts as to why the Sanchez boys aren’t talking about Kyron’s whereabouts?
@ beejay 9:00am:
Yup, you ‘got it’ exactly.
This “tangled web” Blink calls it, continues to tangle.
Now with presiding GJ Judge order restricting any A/V recording
(of witnesses coming/going from GJ room)
AUG 20th thru OCT 29th(!)
the courthouse has become grand central with hearings/appearances etc.
Without malice, I think Kaine is finally realizing exactly what an honest stand-up woman Desiree is and that she has suffered mightily all these years.
Also, w/o her now, he’d be farer up the #hit creek.
He is hoping she will continue to stand up for him.
Phyllis says:August 24, 2010 at 6:41 pm
They solved more crimes 50 years ago than they do now.
Aww Phillis, you sound bummed today. You might like this heartening read out of Portland today, 3 cold cases under her belt so far including a 30 year old murder.. here’s a dedicated detective. : )
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/portland_cold-case_detective_s.html
I’m confident we will not have to wait 30 years for resolution in this case. (please let those not be famous last words!)
LE asked for video from the FM stores. If the video captured Teri entering and leaving the store then LE has the time and would be able to approximatre the time she left the school and how long she was in FM. It might also capture LS,Dede or some other friend entering the store earlier.
Let’s remember that Kyron knew RS the landscaper. Blink told us that weeks ago, as well as that RS had worked at the Horman home and on occasion at Skyline. So he was not a stranger to Kyron, and he had knowledge of the school’s layout, schedule and routines. All of which would have made the abduction a lot easier. JMHO.
As far as taking him out of the country, I think it’s possible. Not easy, but possible. We all know the borders have a lot of holes in them. And what about planes? I have some experience with private air craft flight and can tell you that we flew a lot of places without having to file a flight plan. And we could have (and actually did a few times)landed in a lot of places without anyone knowing it. There are thousands of remote, private and/or secret landing strips in North America alone. This is just speculation on my part based on personal experience. I know drug runners use planes, what about child trafficking/porn people? I’ll do some research on that.
With so much time having passed he could be anywhere by now. Without his glasses and with different hair cut/color, etc., I’m just not sure people would recognize him. Sigh…I really hope that Kyron is still alive and all of these agencies with their expertise are able to find him.