Kyron Horman Missing: Kaine And Terri Horman Face Off In Family Court
Portland, Or– Following one of the largest organized search weekends on Sauvie Island since Kyron Horman, 8,was abducted from Skyline School on June 4, his step-mother and father squared off in family court. Kaine Horman, Kyron’s father, arrived with his attorney, Laura Rackner.
Kaine’s estranged wife Terri Horman, arrived with her criminal defense attorney; Stephen Houze and her family law attorney Peter Bunch.
Mr. Horman appeared in a crisp-white dress shirt and tie, and Ms. Moulton-Horman wore an eggplant hued suit with a long skirt.
Cameras were banned in the downtown Multnomah County courtroom; however, there were apparently several hidden “nests” as the tweets were flying real-time.
Peter Bunch, counsel to Terri Horman, is adamant his client is the subject of more than one criminal investigation:
“The state has the ability to obtain every single bit of information that is produced in this case and that is outside the bounds of what it could do were this proceeding not occurring,” Bunch said in court.
“It is fundamentally unfair for Kitty (Kiara) and for Miss Horman for me to be hamstrung in the divorce case for the information I have compared to what they have.” “The publicity that’s going on is not being driven by Ms. Horman, it’s being driven by Mr. Horman, when he tells national media there’s no doubt Ms. Horman is involved.” “If Mr. Horman is really interested in what‘s best for the child, then Mr. Horman wouldn’t object to any visitation by this child’s mother.” “We’ll concede, Mr. Horman can have the house, right now. Mrs. Horman is going to lose money…”
Terri Horman has not been declared a suspect in either Kyron Horman’s disappearance or the alleged murder for hire plot against Kaine Horman. She is however, seeking access to all of her 911 calls dating back to the DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS.
While this timeline coincides with accusations by Kaine Horman in his filings that Terri attempted to arrange to have him murdered, this is the first public revelation of that call. Bunch went on to say that Rackner and Kaine Horman, who are parties to case sensitive criminal investigation materials involving Terri, are at a supreme advantage to his client who should only be expected to plead her protections under the 5th amendment as a result.
After heated debate by those sides, we learned: Rudy Sanchez, the infamous landscaper/hitman for hire, has an alias, and has eluded service in the civil matter to date, although he appears to have cooperated. Bunch proclaims Sanchez is unlocatable as a result of MCSO unwillingness to share discovery of a witness in the civil case ( blink holds hands over eyes).
Michael Cook, a/k/a sexter king, waited all afternoon via subpoena by Rackner, but was only interviewed by the press. He states he cut ties with both Terri and Kaine days before he was outed for invasive scapular intrusions. No word on that healing process.
Terri Horman had her own personal black Friday this year.
She called 911 THE DAY AFTER CHRISTMAS. Regular contributors and readers of blinkoncrime.com doubt she had sale flyer questions.
Judge Keith Meisenheimer, was sensitive to Kaine and Kyron’s ‘round the clock nightmare, but feels some time may allow things to shake out. January 6, 2011 to be exact.
Following this afternoon’s legal melee, blinkoncrime.com Editor In Chief asked prominent Washington State Family Law Attorney, Lea Conner, to weigh in:
Although I preface my comments with the fact that I practice family law in Washington State and not in Oregon, I am an Oregon native that has followed this case closely.
I’m a bit perplexed by Peter Bunch’s reasoning that if the court were to abate the dissolution, he would respond by filing a motion to modify the restraining order so that Terri Horman could have visitation with the parties’ daughter. Essentially, Mr. Bunch is arguing that the abatement would prejudice his client’s ability to parent her child. My understanding of the Multnomah County local rules is that an abatement means that the entire case is halted. Neither party can bring a motion before the court, nor can the court hear argument or make any ruling on motions.
It was also interesting to hear Mr. Bunch argue that proceeding with the divorce would violate Ms. Horman’s right against self-incrimination in the disappearance of her stepson. This is the first time that Terri Horman has publicly acknowledged any self-incrimination issues. In her motion for abatement, Ms. Horman, through counsel, argued that the ongoing investigation into Kyron Horman’s disappearance had made it “virtually impossible…to proceed with divorce-related issues in an effective an[d] orderly fashion[.]” Were Mr. Bunch to bring a motion to allow visitation, Mr. Horman would no doubt argue that Ms. Horman’s actions demonstrate that Ms Horman or someone she knew was responsible for Kyron Horman’s disappearance, and that her behavior since Kyron’s disappearance shows that she is unstable and poses a threat to their daughter’s safety.
I do not believe Mr. Horman would raise Ms. Horman’s 2005 convictions for DUI and reckless endangerment, as not only later chose to have a child with Ms. Horman since that time, he also left both of his children in her care for extended periods while he was at work. Under those facts, it would be hard to conclude that Mr. Horman believed Ms. Horman posed a threat to their daughter. The judge’s comment that “[e]ventually, Terri will have to decide whether or not to plead the fifth, regardless of the timing of the proceedings,” seems to indicate that the judge may not be willing to hold the action in abatement past the January 6, 2011, hearing.
I’m also interested in Mr. Bunch’s comment that “Rudy Sanchez” is an alias. If that’s true, then what is Rudy Sanchez’ real name, and how exactly did he first come in contact with Terri Horman?
It was also strange to learn that Michael Cook was subpoenaed to testify at the hearing. I’m curious if there were others scheduled to testify as well. I cannot speak to how the Oregon court operates in practice. However, I note that each party provided written affidavits in support of their respective motions.
Is there some reason that Mr. Cook’s statement could only be presented in oral testimony?
I’m not sure I understand Mr. Bunch’s logic in saying “If this is not abated we will not get reciprocal discovery.”
The state is not a party to a dissolution action. In a dissolution action, the parties can seek discovery from each other, and depending on the court rules, from third parties as well.
I’m not sure why Mr. Bunch would have the impression that there would be reciprocal discovery with a third party in a dissolution action, especially when that third party is law enforcement.
There’s a disconnect between Mr. Bunch’s argument that Ms. Horman cannot defend herself because she would incriminate herself in the disappearance of her stepson, and his statement that “If Mr. Horman is really interested in what‘s best for the child, then Mr. Horman wouldn’t object to any visitation by this child’s mother.”
The apparent logic is that Ms. Horman admits that if she speaks, she will incriminate herself in some as-yet-to-be-named crime related to Kyron’s disappearance, yet Mr. Horman is now supposed to trust her to care for his other child, because that’s so obviously in their daughter’s best interest.
Check back to blinkoncrime.com for updates.
Madeline Tanner, contributor and copy editor, www.blinkoncrime.com
Lea Connor, Esq., legal analyst, www.blinkoncrime.com
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Blink and fellow blinksters: I have been reading your site for a long time now. This is THE place for intelligent, heartfelt info regarding Kyron. I feel so much for Kyron and his parents. This case pulls at my heartstrings daily. I am always searching for updated, and hopefully, positive news about Kyron. I get excited when there’s a new search, but then feel apprehensive about what may be found.
I want Kyron found and brought home. Unfortunately I believe that he is dead. Unless found alive, I pray that God has embraced Kyron with the ultimate love! Please…
BTW I am closely following your coverage of Hartley. Very wary of Tiffany!
Blink, a few days ago, one of your posters mentioned the video of someone asking Terri if she was pregnant. I thought fluff, but later found a pic of Terri holding her abdomen. It was distended a bit probably nothing, but perhaps something to watch. I certainly don’t want to start a rumor mill.
Blessings to Blink and other sincere posters who truly want justice for others.
Love to all…
Just wondering — for those of you who’ve done research into the various names and permutations, business concerns, family members — is this what you’ve been able to find online? Or has anyone had the chance to personally visit the county courthouses in the area and U.S. Federal Bankruptcy Court for this district to see what potential bankruptcy, civil and other criminal actions are registered? I wish I had to time to pursue such an endeavor and I don’t, but possibly some others might. I’m assuming LE & media would have undertaken their own research into these public records and (at least media) release anything of importance, but then again no harm in combing through those for those so inclined.
Has any other station -or- web site had Medford?
Just SPELLING “Medford” is DIFFERENT than “Roseburg.”
Since we have seen “information” in Kyron’s case be redacted is this another incident?
IMO I could see TMH wanting to “get out” of Roseburg (small town/parents).
If you look @ her history, her progressive moves North were to larger or near larger cities.
Having to be ‘stuck’ in Roseburg for 3 months may have ‘lost’ all its charm.
Yes, I know, “sealed indictment” but could her attorneys get a change of residence?
Especially, if she had JM living w/her?
And, TMH “likes” to break the rules- so could a Medford move be her way to get out ‘n about w/ less notice?
Was this “correction” to KPTV site be information once again the public was NOT to know.
Remember she moved out of Portland BEFORE it was reported ?
____________________
Annie says:
October 9, 2010 at 1:09 pm
KPTV replied that it was a mistake and is being corrected. Terri lives in Roseburg
cbickel says:
October 9, 2010 at 5:33 pm
I’m afraid I’m not much of a sluth and do better and reading!
“`
I consider myself in good company because I am a sluther too. lol …thanks for the chuckle.
31.Lea Conner says:
October 9, 2010 at 1:57 a
Mr. Bunch told the court at Thurday’s hearing that Ms. Horman’s son James was living with her. KPTV is now reporting that Terri has “relocated to Medford.” Of all the places on Earth, why would she move to the same town as Desiree Young? Just as important, why would Ms. Horman uproot James from his father’s home is Roseburg, where, according to published media reports, he was doing quite well?
At the time Ms. Horman relocated to her parent’s house in Roseburg, James was already on his third home in 2010. James went from living with his mother on NW Sheltered Nook Road to living with her parents in Roseburg, then to live at his father Ron Tarver’s home in Roseburg. If KPTV’s story is correct, James has moved yet again, this time to live with his mother in Medford.
—-
Ms. Lea Conner, thank you so much for you expertise in the legal arena. Very helpful.
I’m beginning to wonder if TH’s parents didn’t refinance their home to rent and/or down payment a place for TH and James. Probably wouldn’t be to hard to find out, no?!? I feel for them in their elderly years.
Why Medford, INDEED??? Who besides DY and TY could TH know there. Too weird.
Tonight’s KGW news coverage of search today, etc., don’t know why link titles haven’t changed in two days:
http://www.kgw.com/news/Kaine–Terri-Horman-due-in-court-for-divorce-hearing-104487169.html
Does Wendy Fuhrer live alone at the Sheltered Nook residence? Where is her retired-LE hubby? Was he a DEA guy? (Steve Harmon)
Cbickel says:
October 9, 2010 at 5:33 pm
I love your comment…I feel the same- but my choice of meds is generic ibuprofen! I always proofread my comments- yet I always make mistakes- Dang that spell check and synonyms it doesn’t even help…
I had to laugh at your comment, but not at you, as you may have caught the ‘h’ missing in sleuth but you missed the “E” Thanks for the chuckle.
See what I mean about mistakes… I meant to include crowdcat’s in that comment about the meds- and your comment about the herding- yikes- time to get out the trusty generic brand…
Lea Conner says:
October 9, 2010 at 1:57 am
However, I just cannot see Mr. Bunch filing a motion for visitation. In order to have that motion heard, the court would need to remove the abatement, which would allow Ms. Rackner the ability to conduct discovery.
Do you think that possibly all the statements from Bunch and Houze regarding how Terri is Suspect # 1 in Kyron’s disappearance and that it is so well known because of Kaine’s statements to media, they can explain the necessity of Terri having to plead the 5th if the abatement is lifted, so Rackner would, in effect, get no discovery, but Terri can still save face? Bunch has said that anything Terri’s says will be used by the state in the criminal cases. He has said that the motions filed by Rackner for her client were actually to force Terri’s hand to give up information related to her alleged criminal activity. Could Terri actually “dodge the issue” of her parenting of Kiara by saying she cannot say anything which may be used against her and the petitioner is actually trying to set her up to self-incriminate to coincide with his beliefs of her participation in Kyron’s disappearance?
Something I find very interesting is that TH is asking for “supervised visitation.” I read a good deal about it today and it appears that unless she was known to have abused or engaged in activities which would hurt Kiara, she would not have to seek supervised visitation. On the other side of that however, if I understand what I’ve read today, those who have engaged in or been convicted of criminal activity are normally those parents who request supervised visitation. Terri has not been arrested or named a suspect, although there may be a secret indictment of which we are not aware so this could explain the request for supervised visitation. But, if there is not a secret indictment, then why would she have to ask for supervised visitation? Could this be a ploy of her attorneys to paint her as unduly accused and harassed by Kaine, his family attorney and LE resulting in a media conviction?
I believe the message about trying to subpoena tapes from all 911 calls since Dec 26th was loud and clear, whether it has merit or not is yet to be seen. Could Rackner file a motion to insist on an in camera review if she had information from Kaine that they were not relevant?
Cbickel – Thank you for that great laugh! Who knew the power held by one little “h.”
Goodness, I have been hoping and checking all day that we would have some breaking news about what searchers may have found. I find solace believing Kyron is dry and warm and loved, wrapped in the blankets of our hearts.
@newsatfive— Yes, a conversation with the mother of the employee, an acquaintance. It was reported to LE, per the mom. Apparently, it was after June 4, and both women had come in, attempting to open a PO box with only a credit card as ID while the “daugher”/ employee was at lunch and a younger person was at the desk. When she returned, according to her mom, she called DDS back, telling her she needed an ODL from both, and DDS said she was no longer interested in the PO Box. However, the other woman, who apparently was TMH, came back in and filled out papers and proper ID. After DDS was in the news, others told her ‘you have to report this.’ I’ve never seen it in the media, but I had no reason to doubt this woman’s story. So..this may be old news/useless news/another way for these two to communicate without LE or KH to know what they were corresponding about. Just made me believe that FM was a hook up/meeting place for whatever these people were into/up to. I am sure there are many little “segments” of stories out there. I just hope that one opens up the case to bring Kyron home.
Ode, you made an excellent point in your October 9, 2010 at 1:14 pm
you wrote:
If in fact boot prints were found as above they say “adult boot prints”. This does not mean they belonged to a man. Also if they are male size it does not mean a woman may not have worn them, just because or JUST because. Blink are the prints a fact and if so of what importance as it was a day with above normal adult foot traffic?
Recently I have been reading about little John Benet Ramsey’s murder- and for anyone that is familiar with that case, they originally found a Hi Tec boot print in the room where little JBR body was found.
At the time, many believed that this pointed to an outsider or to the killer in general- Since that time, it has been found that Jon Benet’s older brother, Burke did indeed own a pair of hi tec boots at the time, and he was nine years old- so it just goes to show that you are correct- We don’t know who left those boot prints- it could have been man a woman or a child.
PS- sorry for spelling your name wrong krowdkat, my mistakes abound…
Interesting website, looks like LE is cleaning house pretty good.
Person that stands out to me is,this guy.
Andy Bernalrios
Date Booked: 10/08/2010
Click Here To Remove This Mugshot from PDXmugshots.com
Charges:
USM HOLD (U )
USI HOLD (U )
Booking Information
SWIS ID: 750455
Name: Bernalrios, Andy
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Race: White
Height: 5 ft 9 in
Weight: 210 lbs
Hair: Black
Eyes: Brown
Arresting Agency: US Marshall Service
Arrest Date: 10/8/2010 8:00 AM
Booking Date: 10/8/2010 4:44 PM
Current Status: In Custody
Assigned Facility: MCDC
Projected Release Date: Unknown
Court Case No. None DA Case No. None Citation No. None
Charge Bail Status
USM HOLD (U ) $0 Unsentenced
Idahogal says:
October 9, 2010 at 7:45 pm
You’re right, that is the biggie, and I have no freaking idea. Everything I said was just an attempt to fit together our collective puzzle pieces and make some sense of it. It could all look very different in another 24 hours.
~~~
lol … Idahogal you are so spot on … after I go to bed at nite the gremlins come out and rearrange the pieces and I’m left going huuuh????
49.Idahogal says:
October 9, 2010 at 7:45 pm
So Blink, in short… play nice or you will open your can of whup a$$ and we will all need a bottle of “Alive”?…ROTFL, you are awesome.
************************************
lyla says:
October 8, 2010 at 10:37 pm
Thanks Idahogal…one more question..(or two)..Is this about revenge, an unpaid debt and the biggie….your opinion..why was Kyron disposed of? What satisfaction/reward did the individual(s) receive for participating in his demise?
@lyla – You’re right, that is the biggie, and I have no freaking idea. Everything I said was just an attempt to fit together our collective puzzle pieces and make some sense of it. It could all look very different in another 24 hours. I just keep trying because I care so very much about one beautiful, precious boy named Kyron
———————————————————-
Thanks Idahogal. It’s been a wet, dreary Saturday here in the Portland area. God bless those folks who are involved in the search for our innocent child..Kyron. I cry..some folks will not sleep well tonite. Wherever he is I have to believe he knows he is loved. Someone knows the truth…and we all watch and wait…and discuss thanks to BOC.
Blink, any idea why the main stream media is not covering the fact the Grand Jury is back in session? Is this intentional? Perhaps told by LE to keep it quiet? Or is this just not important news? Seems big to me.
No idea, but they are in session through the 18th
B
Recent statements that blow my mind!
##############################
After the hearing, Kaine Horman said he is satisfied with the judge’s decision.
“I think it’s a great step in the right direction,” he said. “We want to get through this as quickly as possible. We want to get the kids in their routines and then, outside of the divorce, we want to get Kyron in a nice, stable household.”
http://www.kptv.com/kyron-horman/25317391/detail.html
(when discussing the divorce court case, Oct.7)
**********************************************************
Mary Lindstrand with the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office. “Every time we’re out here we can say we’re getting a little closer because we’ll know something or we won’t know something and can mark it off the list.”
While the sheriff’s office will not say if crews have found anything significant to the case during the searches, Lt. Lindstrand does admit that someone, somewhere must know something.
“If you know something please come forward so we can get some resolution and bring Kyron home,” said Lindstrand.
http://www.kptv.com/news/25340260/detail.html
(when talking about today’s Sauvie Island search, Oct 9)
************************************************************
These statements especially:
1 “Every time we’re out here we can say we’re getting a little closer because we’ll know something or we won’t know something and can mark it off the list.”
2 Lt. Lindstrand does admit that someone, somewhere must know something.
Wow………..just wow!
Just a FYI for those not in Portland Metro area:
When a reporter says &/ or writes “VOLUNTEERS” are out searching- these are trained SAR.
There is NO volunteers from the general public @ large nor @ any time has the general public been allowed on ANY (official) searches.
If any one is from Portland Metro & are searching, it is that person(s) is a member of a trained SAR group.
This is the second week-end SAR from around Oregon, Washington & not sure if any Northern Cal or Idaho SAR’s have been here but there is a lot of searchers involved.
Have not heard if going thru night, they may have learned to stay off public scanner link because of last week-end.
================
“Crews focused on the eastern end of the island Saturday. They worked their way through a remote wildlife area along the Columbia County line.”
“On foot, horseback and ATV, 15 teams conducted the search in the rain. Most of them are volunteers, giving up their weekends to aid the effort.”
“Some of the areas that they’re searching are pretty rugged and it does require that they be searched again,” Lindstrand said.”"
“Sauvie Island residents hope renewed focus on the island is a sign that closure is near and that Kyron Horman will be found soon.”
http://www.kgw.com/news/Kaine–Terri-Horman-due-in-court-for-divorce-hearing-104487169.html
=======
“While no specific locations were identified as focus points, most of the searchers appeared concentrated off of NW Reeder Road, which runs north-south, almost bisecting the large island”.
“Teams used string to grid-off areas they already searched.”
“The grid lines give them a line to follow so they know that the area inside the line has been searched,” said Lindstrand.” “It just gives them a straight place to start from.”
“Once again, most of the searchers are volunteers on foot, but horses, canine and ATVs were also implemented.”
“Today’s search is scheduled to wind-down at 5 p.m. today, with everything starting again tomorrow.”
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/Kyron-Horman-search-resumes-on-Sauvie-Island/T-JY1_LLgUKEhZeFQ0pxWw.cspx
===========
“his is the second weekend in a row searchers on horseback, four wheelers and on the ground have combed through corn fields and wooded areas looking for clues”.
“I go for a run in the morning and I got up last Saturday and I looked out there not knowing what’s going on and I’m also a volunteer with the fire department and we weren’t informed so it was a big surprise,” said Gibbons.”
“Well it’s gonna make it a lot more uncomfortable for the searchers,” said Lt. Mary Lindstrand with the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office. “Every time we’re out here we can say we’re getting a little closer because we’ll know something or we won’t know something and can mark it off the list.”
http://www.kptv.com/news/25340260/detail.html
I forgot to post this information earlier: the MCS officer, Sergeant Diana Olsen, that has been coordinating the search effort for , Kyron was hit by a driver last night.
From Oregonian~
“Kyron search coordinator hurt in I-84 crash; Elgin woman faces DUII charges”
“The search and rescue coordinator for Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office is recuperating this morning after an overnight traffic accident along Interstate 84 that has an Elgin woman facing DUII charges in the county’s detention center.”
“The incident happened just after 8 p.m. as Sergeant Diana Olsen was doing speed checks in an Oregon Department of transportation construction zone just east of Troutdale. ”
“Olsen was standing outside her parked patrol car on the north shoulder of westbound I-84 when her vehicle was rear ended by a Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo driven by 61-year-old Janet Marie Scoubes, according to sheriff’s office spokeswoman Lt. Mary Lindstrand.”
“The Jeep crossed the north fog line as it approached the patrol car. Sergeant Olsen was forced to dive into her vehicle to avoid being struck by the Jeep, Lindstrand said.”
“On the county’s police scanner trunk line, a female law enforcement officer was heard saying “I’ve been hit by a drunk driver,” at about 8:10 p.m.”
“Olsen, who was working traffic duty at the time of the accident, is best known for coordinating the search effort for missing Portland boy, Kyron Horman.”
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/multnomah_county_sheriffs_sear.html
Info on who stepped in for the Sgt.:
“Saturday’s team includes about 60 ground searchers, said Lt. Mary Lindstrand, a spokeswoman for the sheriff’s office. The rest are on ATVs, horses, with canine units or support groups, she said.”
“Leading the search this weekend are Sgt. Travis Gullberg and Deputy Mark Herron. The county’s regular search and rescue coordinator, Sgt. Diana Olsen, was injured in a traffic accident earlier this week. ”
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/searchers_return_to_sauvie_isl.html
Idahogal says:
October 9, 2010 at 11:54 am
Did you see any links to news about abusive sex offender crimes, of someone named Jake, who may have lived in North OR Coast area or Ashland, Oregon (about 3 years ago) or have any connections to someone named Jake? Hearsay from a nervous family who may know someone connected to RS, (authorities notified.)
http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/07/04/kyron-horman-missing-and-endangered-sources-terri-horman-hired-landscape-lover/#more-4177
Blink,
early on you referenced Sauvie’s Island canal maintenance needs…irrigation and drainage canals in this link.
Can the Sauvie’s Island searchers put cameras down drainage grates, larger pipes, canals?
I do not know what assets they have access to, but yes, absolutely.
B
zeus says:
October 9, 2010 at 11:21 pm
“Wow………..just wow!”
I second that zeus.
@S says:
October 9, 2010 at 9:12 pm
“Something I find very interesting is that TH is asking for “supervised visitation.” I read a good deal about it today and it appears that unless she was known to have abused or engaged in activities which would hurt Kiara, she would not have to seek supervised visitation. On the other side of that however, if I understand what I’ve read today, those who have engaged in or been convicted of criminal activity are normally those parents who request supervised visitation. Terri has not been arrested or named a suspect, although there may be a secret indictment of which we are not aware so this could explain the request for supervised visitation. But, if there is not a secret indictment, then why would she have to ask for supervised visitation? Could this be a ploy of her attorneys to paint her as unduly accused and harassed by Kaine, his family attorney and LE resulting in a media conviction?
—————————————————————————-
S, I wonder, instead, if supervised visitation was all that Houze was willing to ask for her? It seems she’s already been dishonest with him in her dealings with Michael Cook. Perhaps Houze himself doesn’t trust TMH and feels he needs to keep a very tight rein on her, for her own good. Supervised visitation is one way he can do that and still serve her interests. He may also be concerned for Kiara. Does that make sense?
I think supervised visitation was the best he could hope for under the circumstances.
B
I am wondering if there were several Skyline parents/students/employees who saw RS at the SF on June 4th and LE was trying to verify that his truck was parked where he said it was or was there just several sightings of his truck but no one saw RS?
nora says:
October 9, 2010 at 9:47 pm
“Blink, any idea why the main stream media is not covering the fact the Grand Jury is back in session? Is this intentional? Perhaps told by LE to keep it quiet? Or is this just not important news? Seems big to me.
No idea, but they are in session through the 18th
B”
That is an excellent question. Seems like MSM tosses out every and any little piece they can come up with but not a peep about the GJ. I would think the GJ being back in session would make the news!?! I do realize that most of the “news” coverage in Portland is actually peripheral to the station programming, but it’s hard to imagine that The Oregonian or WW would not be keeping tabs on what is going on.
GraceintheHills 10/09 1:37am
RE: The Ransom Note (My MOO)
There is no proof of a ransom note. I think there was a note or message for a few reasons, but I will start with Blink’s comments that obviously greatly influenced my thinking.
09/27 11:11am
This has always been my belief. She got back in her truck and found a note.
B
09/27 2:58pm
Yes, and then she proceeded to go to the wrong one (FM), parked in the rear as instructed.
B
10/04 7:20pm
Good point, but her (DY) thought process has not changed in 4 months. It had an origin.
B
10/04 7:34pm
snip> I have said from day 1, this case was investigated as a ransom. There is reason to believe he was abducted and still alive from a perp, of that I am certain. Staged completely.
This explains what we have seen in the media. DY and KH on TV stating that Ky has been stashed and is alive. The flier with a picture of Ky without his glasses. Joint press conferences, then separate press conferences, then DY by herself. She is the last one to believe in this ransom theory, because she HAS to. So someone staged a kidnapping for ransom and for awhile everyone believed it.
TH went to two FM stores. WHY? I believed early on it was a meet or drop that was misunderstood. There had to be instructions from someone to go there. How did she get those instructions, if not for a note/message or call? She went from the school to FM. Someone was seen around her truck, which was parked on the shoulder, perhaps to put a note or batphone in the truck.
If TH orchestrated Ky’s disappearance, was she sophisticated enough to set her own self up to be blackmailed for his return? If she did, why not go to LE right away? Was she that sophisticated? I think we all agree that TH did not find out about Ky’s disappearance when he got off the bus, so if not a note in the truck, when and how?
I can only assume that in the course of the investigation, in grilling RS and the subsequent MFH information, that LE tossed the ransom theory, and RS cut a deal. I agree with you that RS and TH are primetime players here and I too go back and forth about how much involvement with the actual disappearance TH has, but DY has always pleaded with TH for information, not for Ky’s return.
It seems to me since RS testified at the GJ, the information he has is considered important because he is involved somehow and there would have to be a deal or he would clam up like TH. One would think we would have an arrest by now.
To me that means someone else was involved, the one DY is pleading for information about and the one that TH won’t give up to see her own daughter.
Idahogal 10/08 11:10
RE: MONEY SUIT
There is one federal agency that has taken down some of the most notorious criminals of our time and before our time. The employees of this agency don’t carry guns, they wear suits and ties and they wield their power with a pen and calculator. Any guesses? How about the IRS.
I think they are EXTREMELY interested in how someone acquired a huge attorney fee that is neither a gift or a loan or a marital assets or a marital liability. Those guys LIVE to classify how one acquires money, how much money one acquired and who and how the taxes have been paid on that money.
Money Suit (link won’t post, reference Idahogal post @ top of this comment for full document link).
page 3
snip> Further, Wife’s lawyer notified Husband’s lawyer, in writing that if called to the stand in this matter, Wife must necessarily assert her Fifth Amendment rights.
It is my understanding that the Money Suit is a separate case from the divorce and subsequent custody case, as well as any civil or criminal cases relating to the MFH and, or Ky’s disappearance. It is also my understanding when someone pleads the 5th, they must assert it throughout their testimony. I understand pleading the 5th to seemingly innocuous questions to protect yourself from incriminating questions, but that is within the parameters of a specific case, right? Yet, TH will find it necessary to plead the 5th on the money, too?
I need a legal expert to help me out here and correct my logic. My question is if the Money Suit is a separate case, then WHY would TH have to plead the 5th, unless she is not at liberty to disclose where the money came from, because it will incriminate her?
Now, if it is a book/movie/media deal, there would be argument as to whether it is a marital asset, since she is still married and her lawyers would be ethically bound to at least disclose this to KH’s lawyers. So that is not it.
If her parents, friends, supporters, ex-husbands, benefactor gave or loaned her the money, then it would be classified as a gift or a loan. So that’s not it.
If she had this money prior to marrying KH, or during this marriage, then she is perjuring herself by claiming she has no resources and they would be assets that could come under contention in the divorce case and she would be obligated to disclose them. So that’s not it.
What is left? There are only so many ways to get money and TH has to plead the 5th on how she came to pay her attorney. KH and the judge may not get an answer, though I am not sure why, but my bets are that the IRS will.
IMO
Blink-
Have been unable to get to any older comments before 10/08 @ 12:02am on this thread. Have tried two different computers.
Due to that problem I cannot bring the post (Blink’s ?) that states Lisa Fuhrer Pumala is living in Medford. [Lisa is Tanner's mom].
Would that be -or- could that be WHY TMH moved to Medford ?
I know KPTV said they would make correction from Medford to Roseburg but I find it hinky those two cities names would be in error.
Yes, stranger things have happen.
We have all tried to look at connections to SI. Well if Brian Pumala was familiar/ lived there @ one time, it stands to reason Lisa would also be familiar w/ SI.
As Lisa is Tanner’s mom, she more than likely knows the Horman’s. Especially how Tanner claims to be Kyron’s best friend.
This may all be nothing but the Medford, Roseburg, Portland connections that keep “popping” up are truly amazing, to say the least.
I have no access to any of their facebooks (TMH,LFP,BP) but has anyone seen any “friending” between TMH & LFP ? Photos ?
Would LFP have been w/ Tanner June 4th ? Would LFP know A/K/A “RS” ?
JMHO …questioning
Waiting HOPEFUL for Kyron
@Riverpearl:
Terri has NOT moved to Medford.
Don’t make me come out there.
@ Kat says:
October 9, 2010 at 9:20 pm
____________________________
Maybe DDS didn’t have a driver’s license at the time? Yet was driving.
Remember that DDS had a business of unknown (to me) operations. If you operate a business out of your home, for instance, you usually want a PO Box for business correspondence rather than your home address. Not for shady reasons either.
Note: a lot of people with contacts in LE are able to get records of things pulled so that it never shows up in a criminal records search.
33. S says:
October 9, 2010 at 3:31 am
RE: Blink’s response (snipped)
Lastly, we found Mr. Sanchez, as did The Oregonian in about 5 minutes. Either he is being protected, detained or “other” for Bunch not to be able to subpoena him for Thursday hearing. I spoke to one witness early that was looking out the window while he and his staff were working on her lawn. He testified before the GJ, I would offer it is common practice NOT to subpoena folks who may something you don’t want them to.
That said, there is gulp in my throat the size of Texas, daily, in this case.
B
I am so confused! Someone have mercy and help me out please. TH’s legal team is not “worried” about whatever RS would say if successfully subpoenaed because…
RS’s testimony in the divorce proceedings would be strictly limited to issues relating to the divorce? If so, what would they be asking him about that would pertain only to the divorce? Would Rackner be able to cross examine RS as well? Is this just a ploy on the part of TH’s lawyers to send a message to KH and Rackner such as “Hey, you know we could find him if we really wanted to and we’ll muddy this whole thing up if you don’t back off?”
Apparently I need to watch Law & Order! It just seems like such a veritable mine field to me. Maybe that is the whole point, IDK.
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Kimberly says:
October 9, 2010 at 9:22 pm
Interesting website, looks like LE is cleaning house pretty good.
Person that stands out to me is,this guy.
@Kimberly – Can you please provide a link for this info.? TIA.
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enumclawrose says:
October 10, 2010 at 6:08 am
Idahogal 10/08 11:10
RE: MONEY SUIT
@Enumclawrose- Excellent post, I’ve had the very same question ever since Friday, as in “Why would TH’s testimony about where the money came from incriminate her? WTH might she be involved in?” This has led me to wonder if there might be yet another criminal case involving her that is being investigated. IDK if I posted that question or not…TMI these past few days, I can barely keep up!
RE: Fuhrer & Pumala
Lisa Fuhrer listed in Medford (according to address searches) is 40. I believe Lisa Fuhrer/Pumala was born in 1980. Of course, it could be an error, but I think it’s very possible that is a different Lisa Fuhrer all together (different relative names, none of which connect back to the group I’ve researched that connect to this family).
Also, Steve Harmon is not WF’s ex-husband. He use to be married to Brian Pumala’s mother, not Lisa’s mother.
RS entering the front door with two kids might be noticed by office personnel so he would need to get in another way.
Dave Stensen was mowing the soccer field between 7:45 and 8:30. At some point he saw some kids come out the back door to look at a flower bed.
……speculation #64 — headless lumberjack theory ……
TH says to Ky on the way to class, lets stop outside and look at the flowerbed. TH props the door open because it would be locked from the outside. They happen to run into RS and two girls (RS parked in back.) They all go back inside together. RS leaves behind a muddy footprint.
After snapping the pictures TH says goodbye to Kyron and he goes with RS and the girls. He is seen by Tanner and says they’re going downstairs to see the cool one. RS is the “man chaperon” with two girls. RS makes an excuse to go out to his truck, somehow gets Ky into the truck and they leave.
The reason DY thinks that Ky is still alive is because one of the girls is little Jamie Mejia who is also missing along with her mother and brother. She believes that Ky is with them.
@beejay—LOL “Don’t make me come out there” — just caught be off guard and made me chuckle. As for the license, maybe. However, as I recall, DDS told the employee to take her name off it, didn’t want to be involved with it. To me, it seemed more like TMH might told DDS we’re going to do this, then the passive-aggressive thing to do is NOT give your ODL–when you KNOW it’s required.
Blink,
Are you familiar with the Eyes for Lies Blog? I am curious to know what you think of her work.
I read her observations on the 1st Hormon press conference back in June and I thought it was interesting, but I was only focusing on what she was saying about Terri. I just read it again and was struck by her comments about Kaine at the time. I am in no way pointing a finger at Kaine, but have always had the sense that he was not as blindsided by the events as Desiree and Tony were. I am really anxious to hear more about possible 9-1-1 calls in December. I keep thinking that there was more discord in that household than Kaine is sharing.
http://blog.eyesforlies.com/2010/06/kyron-hormans-father-speaks-out.html
p.s. I thought she had some good analysis on the Tiffany and David Hartley case.
First – has anyone seen the actual wording of the divorce decision delay? An abatement is a legal term and we all pretty much know by now what that means, however, if the judge just postponed his ruling as it seemed might be the case, there may still be an opportunity to make other motions such as those concerning visitation or a motion to drop the inquiry into the source of the attorney money.
Perhaps Kaine is willing to allow supervised visitation thinking it might encourage TH to talk, but I doubt it. The state’s position is if there is even a chance a parent will continue or restart parenting, a child should continue a relationship with that parent in the most appropriate way possible.
Supervised visitation can be voluntary. If you don’t have a DHS case, there are people/agencies that offer that service in a neutral place. If it isn’t court ordered, one of them will have to pay for it. The advantage to Terri would be to get people off her back about not caring about Kiara, and the supervisor can be asked to report (testify) on her interaction with Kiara (was it age appropriate, what is their relationship like, etc.) If not court ordered, both parties have to agree on who does it and what can be shared with anyone else. I doubt (but who knows?) if the court would order it (and pay for it), given she hasn’t been charged that we know of for sure, but I think her attorneys would see it in her best interest to be supervised – can you imagine what a huge media mess it would be if she took Kiara for a visit and got a speeding ticket or Kiara fell down and got a scrape on her knee?
It’s also possible that her parents might be allowed to supervise the visit if Kaine took her there and picked her up. It might allow him to see James also.
There are a lot of possibilities. I hope they don’t do overnights immediately, however, because I think it would be very confusing to a child her age, but – I’m sure they won’t ask my opinions.
27.beejay says:
October 10, 2010 at 9:13 am
@Riverpearl:
Terri has NOT moved to Medford.
Don’t make me come out there.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ROFL, Beejay!! I think we can put that one to rest.
Okay, about the boot prints…it was raining cats and dogs on June 4th, in fact it was indeed a Juneuary up here, tons of rain all month. I was literally in tears because I was so sick of the rain! It was muddy as heck everywhere…how on earth would LE be able to get a good boot print at all given the weather, the sheer number of children and adults coming and going all day, and the time lapse between LE’s arrival at Skyline that night and the early morning when Ky disappeared? IIRC the rain was a big factor in the SAR dog’s ability to follow a scent? I may have to change my hat to “Confused” since puzzled is already taken, lol.
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FWIW, I have stated here before that my queries to media about their “silence” have gone unanswered except for a gracious response from Maxine Bernstein at the Oregonian on Sept. 24th, as follows:
Ms. Blah Blah (not putting my name out here, okay?)
There is no such media gag order, as you suggest.
It was our newspaper that broke the story of the alleged murder -for-hire scheme that was later backed up in the unsealing of Kaine Horman’s restraining order against his wife.
We’ve been following the case from the get-go, with in-depth stories on the investigation, and the people involved.
And, we will continue to, as it progresses when new information is obtained.
Thanks for your inquiry,
Maxine Bernstein
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Kimberly says:
October 9, 2010 at 9:22 pm
@kimberly – Never mind, I found the link (attached). No charges are listed yet, however I cannot find him on the MCSO inmate search. IMO, MCSO inmate search sucks, I can never find anyone on that stupid site. Anyway, why does this guy stand out to you? Other than the fact he is Hispanic and on a US Immigration and US Marshalls hold? Just curious as there are a “million” of them just like this guy.
http://pdxmugshots.com/mug/andy-bernalrios
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FWIW, let’s not beat ourselves up over a few typos…they are minimal in relation to how much posting we do, and I get a kick out of some of them. Let’s not forget mine awhile back in which I typed that BOC is a pubic forum, LOL again.
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14.lyla says:
October 9, 2010 at 9:46 pm
@lyla – I was tired last night when I responded, my apollies for that. Any answer I would give is pure speculation…the motive could be TH’s failure to go through with and/or make a down payment on the alleged MFH plot and/or someone’s anger about a romantic/sexual relationship gone bad and/or someone’s anger about a 911 call that caused a huge uproar in their life and/or higher powers in an illegal network demanding retribution for something. So you see, the list here could go on and on. We just don’t have enough info. to know anything for sure and I fear we will not until this case/cases go to trial. MOO.
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panda says:
October 10, 2010 at 11:33 am
Re: headless lumberjack theory (snipped)
After snapping the pictures TH says goodbye to Kyron and he goes with RS and the girls. He is seen by Tanner and says they’re going downstairs to see the cool one. RS is the “man chaperon” with two girls. RS makes an excuse to go out to his truck, somehow gets Ky into the truck and they leave.
The reason DY thinks that Ky is still alive is because one of the girls is little Jamie Mejia who is also missing along with her mother and brother. She believes that Ky is with them.
@panda- IMO, very plausible and an excellent theory, kudos.
Sigh…I am crying again today for Kyron…I pray that he is safe, warm and happy in God’s loving embrace. I would move heaven and earth to have him alive and well, this whole thing stinks.
33. S says:
October 9, 2010 at 3:31 am
RE: Blink’s response (snipped)
Lastly, we found Mr. Sanchez, as did The Oregonian in about 5 minutes. Either he is being protected, detained or “other” for Bunch not to be able to subpoena him for Thursday hearing. I spoke to one witness early that was looking out the window while he and his staff were working on her lawn. He testified before the GJ, I would offer it is common practice NOT to subpoena folks who may something you don’t want them to.
That said, there is gulp in my throat the size of Texas, daily, in this case.
B
I am so confused! Someone have mercy and help me out please. TH’s legal team is not “worried” about whatever RS would say if successfully subpoenaed because…
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@S: IMHO, TMH’s legal team may “appear” nonchalant about RS’s possible testimony, but, believe me, they are concerned. I just don’t buy that they could not “find” him.
Idahogal, I could not tell if it was you or S who wrote the above comment, so I responded to S.
@Idahogal
@Kimberly – Can you please provide a link for this info.? TIA.
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Surely can.
the website is listed in my post as
PDXmugshots.com
and here is the direct link
http://pdxmugshots.com/mug/andy-bernalrios
31.panda says:
October 10, 2010 at 11:33 am
RS entering the front door with two kids might be noticed by office personnel so he would need to get in another way.
Dave Stensen was mowing the soccer field between 7:45 and 8:30. At some point he saw some kids come out the back door to look at a flower bed.
*********
How did I miss this statement?? Huge if true. I think Blink “The Beautiful” alluded to it once. Shame on me.
24.enumclawrose says:
October 10, 2010 at 5:07 am
GraceintheHills 10/09 1:37am
RE: The Ransom Note (My MOO)
There is no proof of a ransom note.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@E-Rose: Thanks so much for your post. I agree that this could have been staged to appear as if Kyron were kidnapped, but I am wondering if the note/indication of kidnapping came AFTER LE searched the area around Skyline. It just seems that, with all the initial intense searching of the area around Skyline, LE treated it as if Kyron had walked or wandered away from the school. I guess the other scenario would be that LE may have suspected the alleged “kidnapper” left/held Kyron near the school.
Idahogal says:
October 10, 2010 at 10:12 am
“Lastly, we found Mr. Sanchez, as did The Oregonian in about 5 minutes. Either he is being protected, detained or “other” for Bunch not to be able to subpoena him for Thursday hearing. I spoke to one witness early that was looking out the window while he and his staff were working on her lawn. He testified before the GJ, I would offer it is common practice NOT to subpoena folks who may something you don’t want them to.
That said, there is gulp in my throat the size of Texas, daily, in this case.
B
RS’s testimony in the divorce proceedings would be strictly limited to issues relating to the divorce? If so, what would they be asking him about that would pertain only to the divorce?”
From Divorce/Dissolution Doc.
Petitioner is submitting a Petition for a Family Abuse Prevention Act Restraining Order contemporaneously with the Filing of This Petition.
Link to RO doc.
http://images.bimedia.net/documents/Horman_res_div_docs2.pdf
I don’t think there is anything they could ask RS pertaining to the divorce which would not also be a question about Kyron’s disappearance or the MFH plot. I kept trying to separate the Dissolution and the RO in my mind thinking that Bunch could ask to alter the RO so Terri could have supervised visitation rights without hindering the abatement of the divorce, but after reading the docs again, I see that I was completely wrong. The RO accompanies the DP and is stated in the DP and vice versus. I think the issues strictly related to the divorce are the issues related to the criminal investigations! I kind of have the feeling that Bunch and Houze could discredit RS as a witness so thoroughly that whatever he says is useless to the criminal matters.
BUT,…..I just had a horrid thought about what Blink said. “Either he is being protected, detained or “other” OMG, could the “other” mean he is long gone??? Do Bunch and Houze suspect this? Are the new searches an attempt to find anything since LE’s prime witness has gone south? Scary thought.
@ enumclawrose says:
October 10, 2010 at 6:08 am
RE:Idahogal 10/08 11:10 RE: MONEY SUIT
“There is one federal agency that has taken down some of the most notorious criminals of our time and before our time. The employees of this agency don’t carry guns, they wear suits and ties and they wield their power with a pen and calculator. Any guesses? How about the IRS.”
e-rose, you’re brilliant. One of my favorite immigration attorneys likes to remind us that Al Capone wasn’t done for all his bad deeds… they got him on tax evasion.
@ Riverpearl says:
October 10, 2010 at 6:51 am
“This may all be nothing but the Medford, Roseburg, Portland connections that keep “popping” up are truly amazing, to say the least.”
OK, I easily accept the TV station’s correction but I want to support what you said here in general.. I haven’t seen these 2 cities get so much attention… well.. evah! All these tangential players *also* being connected to them? It boggles the mind, really. As a local, it just sticks out. Don’t know what it means, but there you go.
@ Idahogal says:
October 10, 2010 at 12:29 pm
“@kimberly – Never mind, I found the link (attached). No charges are listed yet, however I cannot find him on the MCSO inmate search.”
Booking page here: http://www.mcso.us/PAID/BookingDetail.aspx?ID=gXOX8nVhKiMGoMBe1D2O2A==
I know I read somewhere about TH making a phone call from a payphone at Freddy’s on June 4th and that she was “raving and ranting”. Does this ring a bell with anyone?
@Idahogal
October 9, 2010 at 9:22 pm
@kimberly – Never mind, I found the link (attached). No charges are listed yet, however I cannot find him on the MCSO inmate search. IMO, MCSO inmate search sucks, I can never find anyone on that stupid site. Anyway, why does this guy stand out to you? Other than the fact he is Hispanic and on a US Immigration and US Marshalls hold? Just curious as there are a “million” of them just like this guy.
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Correct! And, I agree. However; what I find odd is that out of the
Males and of Hispanic decent, that are on that site, that are ALL on USM and/or USI holds, none, I repeat, NOT ONE are listed on the sheriff site.
there are several factors that constitute a USM hold,
Example:
A federal indigtment could warrant a US Marshal hold. If you were in jail for a petty crime, but it involved US money, drugs AND firearms (not just one or the other), or another federal crime, the US Marshal will detain you or have you HELD untill further questioning or investigation.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_a_US_Marshal_hold
So why does this guy stand out to me?
For exactly the reasons you mentioned above.
I will say this though, I think its pretty clear that there is a drug ring of some sort involved with the Kyron investigation and Blink herself stated this on the Dana Pretzer podcast. Having said that, I believe that the important players who are coughing up names are infact being protected AND we are seeing ton of arrests, (house cleaning) that are either involved directly or indirectly with this case. Remember the double digit agencies here?
I am not sure exactly how protecting a witness or potential witness/informant goes, but it just seems too coincidental that the mugshots appear, but then not on the sheriffs page, Rudy, is here and then gone, Anselmo has a motion to dismiss pending, Elsie and her kids are missing, things are being put in the media and then redacted, Terri claims death threats, (which I believe she did get)
I’m not saying that everyone above is being protected, but, I do believe there is a certain level of guidance on how the LE and DA are wanting the public at large to view their suspect(s), I believe because it’s too dangerous otherwise and probably instrumental in persuing the federal part of this case.
MOO
ok nevermind, i see that the people in question are in fact now on the sheriffs page. I must have spelled it wrong,
SORRY
Yes Lyla, I remember reading about Terri and the phone call from FM however I can’t find a link about it. Sorry…
I’m praying very much for Kyron today. Can’t get him out of my mind, but that’s nothing new. Love to you Kyron and many, many prayers. xxooxx
I’m a first time poster…long time lurker and love this site. So many good people doing very good work. I followed this case from day one and have run theory after theory through my head with daily/weekly revisions. At this point, I’m of the opinion that TH is responsible, but didn’t actually do the deed. Trying to put all the pieces together like everyone else and always waiting for one of Blink’s “hints” to add to the mix.
I was wondering if any of you slueths have an opinion on this post:
anonymous2uiam said on October 10, 2010 at 9:10 AM
dirty_christians: Now you can hiss like a cat or bark like a dog. You would never make it being an investigator or police officer. You are too quick to accuse when you don’t have all the facts. It is one thing to think something and quite another when you know. None of us know what really happened as of yet. We won’t know until LE tells us WHAT THEY “THINK” HAPPENED and even at that, THEY CAN BE WRONG. The guilty got away and the innocent is left to suffer. That is exactly what happen to me. I am left to suffer my losses. In this world, seems to me that if you are a GOOD LIAR, you can get away with anything. I, myself prefer not to be a liar. In my case, when I find the guilty parties, I will take it in my own hands to determine their punishment and I will worry about suffering the consequences later. When it goes down, I will be on the news. Stay tuned! Here is my real initials. J.M.W.
This is from KGW article:
http://www.kgw.com/news/Kaine–Terri-Horman-due-in-court-for-divorce-hearing-104487169.html?commentPage=0#comments
Edited, as most people here are trying to avoid such posts, but welcome to BOC.
B
@jan- No, I have not seen anything about “Jake”.
@grace & @S – Thanks for the answers, ugh, what a mess! And S, good Lord, I would freak if your thought turned out to be right and RS is really, truly disappeared or dead. I never thought of that as I assumed he was in some type of custody. There is a reason “assumed” starts with a–, right?
@erose- You are such a smarty! Go IRS…never thought I’d say THAT.
@beejay- I would love it if you came out here!
@evie- Thanks for the MSCO link, I don’t know why I have such trouble on their site, duh.
@Lemonhead- What a lovely post you made, brought tears to my eyes.
@Satori – You better not just lurk…I want to hear from you.
Happy Sunday to all. Huge shout out of love and hugs to everyone here, and prayers as always for Kyron and those that love him.