Murder In Mexico: Tiffany Hartley Endures 16 Hours Of Interviews In David Hartley Death
..” I have nothing to hide. I Have ABSOLUTELY nothing to hide..”
Tiffany Hartley emerged on CNN’s Anderson Cooper 360 yesterday after her 16th hour of interviews at the Mexican Consulate in McAllen, Texas.
Hartley recounted the events of September 30, ending with the alleged murder of her husband David. Ms. Hartley gave both new testimony and confirmed her previous statements according to reports from the Mexican Attorney General and Ms. Hartley herself, without the presence of an attorney.
According to several statements from Hartley, David was shot “off his jet ski” while the couple was returning from the Mexican side of Falcon Lake, where they briefly took pictures of the historic church on Old Guerrerro. Neither David Hartley nor his Sea Doo watercraft have been recovered.
One of the most baffling aspect of the case, is the fact that Ms. Hartley claims the pair were shot at at as they were driving their jet skis away from alleged “pirates” they both waved a friendly hello to, seconds before. Tiffany Hartley was uninjured in the attack, and her jet ski was not hit in the gunfire. Although media was alerted last week that tests on a possible blood source on Tiffany’s life vest were due back that afternoon, we were quickly told there would be no updates about the possible blood evidence at this time.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime Editor spoke with Chuck Smith, owner Smith Marina USA about specifics of the Sea Doo RXT.
..Your correct, the RXT has a chip in the starter that is electronically programmed to “match” the owners lanyard key. If he was wearing the lanyard, whether attached to his vest, or in some cases the arm, and he was thrown off the ski, it activates a kill switch and will not start without the key it is programmed to without a factory reprogramming, which of course, one would need the paperwork for. In short, no matter what, they would need his key to start it.
Blink Question: What if he was not attached to the key, and he was shot and flew off the unit “in motion”, this would not shut the engine off, correct?
CS: Correct. The ski would continue in the direction the handlebars were pointing and continue to throttle in that direction.
Blink: How hard are these models to sink?
CS: Virtually impossible. I have never actually heard of, or seen one, sink to the bottom. The way the Coast Guard standards are now with these, they have hulls similar to boats.
Blink: Could enough bullet holes sink it? What about if the contiuum– could that have caused it to flip? Could anyone right it?
CS: No, not unless we are talking morter rounds. I guess in theory an automatic weapon could put enough holes cut it in half if that was the goal, but again, your still going to see shards of fiberglass all over the water, remnants similar to a boat accident or crash. Again, under these circumstances, I don’t see how he could flip it, but if it were, again, harder to see because the bottom is black, but any SAR or Coast Guard deployment knows what abnormalities to look for on the water surface. It would be next to impossible to “right it” in deep water. It would be more likely they would drag it to shallow water.
Blink: Is this chop-shoppable?
CS: Absolutely. There is some after factory devices, similar to lo jack, but the engine and parts are expensive and could easily be sold that way.
Blink: He was wearing a PFD I. In your opinion is that keeping him afloat until he is located if he was left in the water?
CS: Absolutely, unless it was removed, or he and the vest were removed from the water, he would be floating, yes.
As announced this morning on Dana Pretzer commentary, Blink, Editor In Chief of blinkoncrime.com will be discussing the Hartley case this evening live at 9PM EST on Scared Monkeys The Dana Pretzer Show.
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@Mermaid14 – you gave me a laugh and you know what it is.
@S.H. – hey that’s not bad! He was dumped in Texas and the guy that LE pulled TH over with was not David. Good one. Of course this theory means he is in fact dead and there’s a boyfriend….not unbelievable since TH stated with such certainty that he WAS dead when she turned him over. I think this is entirely possible and a somewhat clever plan if true (but not quite clever enough!). If David’s body is in TX somewhere, maybe they thought no one woudl think of looking there. That would certainly explain the smokescreen-border issue. Just try to COMPLETELY throw everyone off the track. Sometimes you have to look in the exact opposite direction from where you are being pointed…….if ONLY LE had asked the people to step out of the vehicle when it was pulled over, the answer would be right there on camera. Hopefully they can remember what the guy looked like and verify whether it was or was not DH.
It would make sense if the Sheriff and the mystery witness know each other and are both in on this plot with TH/DH. Their behavior is just as weird as Tiffany’s. I note that even though many people have commented on why no lie detector test, the Sheriff is just as quiet as Tiffany on that. And the mystery witness seems to have disappeared. And Tiffany just continues to move forward with her plans and keeps trying to keep the focus on anything but the fact that her story makes no sense. Something is definitely up. MOO
I’ve been reading from commentors on Seamus that some guy named Burton from Stratfor, the consulting company for this whole incident, has been claiming that the person responsible for David’s death has been executed by his own cartel members for making the mistake of killing David, and that there is nothing else to investigate and the case should be closed. WHAT? They sure are trying like hell to hurry us through this and get it all wrapped up. Then I read this from Anonymous Poster:
“Connection between sigi and stratfor even before David went missing.
Carll said…
“Burton was appointed to the Texas Border Security Council on September 11, 2007 by Governor Rick Perry.”-Wikipedia
That would be Fred Burton, Stratfor VP and the one putting out the theory that Hartley was killed by mistaken identity, and that the young Zeta shooter has been killed by his bosses and the case should now be closed.”
_________________________
Crazy stuff if it’s true. How hard some of these people are trying to get us to buy their story and stop questioning anything! This case is nothing short of bizarre. And I am NOT buying.
Here’s the link.
http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2010/11/hartley-case-experts-speak.html
@Mermaid14 says:
November 6, 2010 at 8:42 pm
Especially when he and the media went to great lengths to make sure that we, the public, knew that there was blood on the life vest that TH wore.
***************************************************************
First of all, I do not believe for one second that Sigi G. had some “conspiracy” going on. My gut tells me that he is a productive, small-town sheriff with the very best of intentions, and works hard towards his goals, and the goals of his community. From all appearances, he is involved in the community, and is a straight shooter. I believe in him, and at the same time believe that he wears, “rose-colored” glasses when it comes to TH. My feeling is that he jumped on the bandwagon when this happened, and used the alleged incident to further his personal cause -and subsequently brought TH on his border school bandwagon.
Of course there are a couple of ways to look at this, however, it is my opinion that he is using her story as a means to further his mission. And I have no doubt whatsoever that Sheriff Sigi has a mission when it comes to border insecurity. that is his job, and clearly he is serious about it -even before this ALLEGED incident.
That said, fish woman (i.e. Mermaid) I think that you are absolutely correct in saying that once they made a, “big deal” about a microscopic spot of blood, that indeed they owe it to the public to produce the results of that blood test. I assumed that this would come straightly after the election, but no info has come forward. This, to me, is very concerning. My hunch is that it does NOT match David’s DNA. And more troubling is that it appears as ifthe US is NOT pursuing this whatsoever.
Does anyone think it would help, in terms of getting to the TRUTH, to contact each our own local state Mexican Consulates, and express our desire for justice to be served for David Hartley? Surely they have a vested interest in clearing their names…when seemingly the US side doesn’t give a shit. David Hartley, if truly dead, deserves as much, and yet his wife seems not to care whatsoever. She is already thinking about her nest, “appearance.”
I will call. Will you?
idea!
David is a dare devil who likes challenges. The Mexican LE should put a beard, mustache, long hair and granny glasses on a photo of David and post it, where? I guess on the Internet! With a caption
“have you seen this man”?
Tiffy giggles and that makes me uncomfortable, is he alive, is this a joke to her?
OH! Forgot, why I think David is alive,maybe…
If she were a true “widow” her rings would be on her right hand
and not on her left hand. This is why I changed my mind:) She
fudged up with her rings.
@chiapet,
Not buying the boyfriend story mainly because they want this to continue to get all kinds of publicity. If TH accomplished a goal of offing her spouse, it seems she would want this to go away quickly. But now another memorial service? I keep thinking someone else is pulling the strings here. Thanks for the detective work on that Sheriff. Maybe I’m making snap judgements here but I took on look at him online on the county website and the first thing that came to my mind was Self Promoter!
@chia,
Here’s another laugh for you. Googled Fred Burton and Stratfor. The first link that came up was a Wikipedia article on this guy’s so called expertise on counter-terrorism and corporate security. At the top of the article were these words
“Note that this article is a self promoting advertisement”. LOL
Another joke–Strategic Forecasting founded in 1999. So—great the way they predicted that 9/11 attack, eh? Now I am completely and firmly convinced this was a staged incident designed to incite anger and hatred toward Mexico. Let’s face it, the Mideast War is growing old and tired, the CIA needs a new war to get everybody excited.
This is what I meant by the sinister implications. If Tiffany and David Hartley were as broke as they seem, they would be the perfect ones or “patsy” to pull this off. I think someone is behind the scenes pulling the money strings to keep them cooperating. Stratfor is trying awfully hard to make this go away by putting out the statement that Hartley was killed in a case of mistaken identity. The misinformation campaign begins.
Ok, at the risk of everyone pouncing on me at once, I am going to provide this link. I had nothing to do with this story and I do not know Michael Whitney the author. This is certainly food for thought.
Title of Story:
Is the CIA behind Mexico’s bloody drug war?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=18877
@Madilu,
Sorry somehow I missed your post, thank you for responding to my concerns. I too am trying to decide what the next course of action should be from the “people”, by that I mean the taxpayers. Wasn’t that what this whole election was supposed to be about anyway?
After reading Mike Whitney’s story I am going to be very cautious in approaching anyone to demand answers. What he wrote is what I had suspected had been going on. And if you scroll down to the end of the story, it’s also about the oil………..again….PEMEX. Why is it always about the damned oil?
Respectfully I think you are wrong about this Sheriff. He owes it to the people who elected him to provide the results of those blood tests otherwise he is just another fear monger. And I believe he lied about the custody of that vest, The Today Show had it on camera after it was supposedly submitted for testing. That means it had to be released by Zapata County. Yet he said it was still in their custody. I do not believe him. Also why has no one been able to get a copy of the submitted police report surrounding the pulling over of David and Tiffany Hartley? By law they had to submit a police report of the incident. Did they? This is what people need to pursue rather than try and complain to public officials.
This is a sitting sheriff who is guilty of obstructing justice, withholding evidence, and lying to the public and creating fear and paranoia.
The taxpayers deserve better.
Madilu says:
November 7, 2010 at 1:20 am
@Mermaid14 says:
November 6, 2010 at 8:42 pm
Especially when he and the media went to great lengths to make sure that we, the public, knew that there was blood on the life vest that TH wore.
***************************************************************
First of all, I do not believe for one second that Sigi G. had some “conspiracy” going on. My gut tells me that he is a productive, small-town sheriff with the very best of intentions, and works hard towards his goals, and the goals of his community. From all appearances, he is involved in the community, and is a straight shooter. I believe in him, and at the same time believe that he wears, “rose-colored” glasses when it comes to TH. My feeling is that he jumped on the bandwagon when this happened, and used the alleged incident to further his personal cause -and subsequently brought TH on his border school bandwagon.
Of course there are a couple of ways to look at this, however, it is my opinion that he is using her story as a means to further his mission. And I have no doubt whatsoever that Sheriff Sigi has a mission when it comes to border insecurity. that is his job, and clearly he is serious about it -even before this ALLEGED incident.
That said, fish woman (i.e. Mermaid) I think that you are absolutely correct in saying that once they made a, “big deal” about a microscopic spot of blood, that indeed they owe it to the public to produce the results of that blood test. I assumed that this would come straightly after the election, but no info has come forward. This, to me, is very concerning. My hunch is that it does NOT match David’s DNA. And more troubling is that it appears as ifthe US is NOT pursuing this whatsoever.
Does anyone think it would help, in terms of getting to the TRUTH, to contact each our own local state Mexican Consulates, and express our desire for justice to be served for David Hartley? Surely they have a vested interest in clearing their names…when seemingly the US side doesn’t give a shit. David Hartley, if truly dead, deserves as much, and yet his wife seems not to care whatsoever. She is already thinking about her nest, “appearance.”
I will call. Will you?
Mermaid
Will you please post the phone number? Thank-you.
*************
I think it is JN Hotline, e-mail, I lifted it from another site.
Check it out, first, OK?
dhsoighotline@dhs.gov
I have the directions to the boat ramp, the ramp I believe is the one used by Tiff & Co. I hope to zoom or birdseye view to understand the
relation of the houses to the ramp.
Falcon State Park
Located off US 83, 30 miles south of Zapata.
Take FM 2098 toward the dam and turn right on Park Road 46.
Ramp will accommodate all boat types
Park entrance fee required
Open all year
Operated by Texas Parks & Wildlife Department (956) 848-5327
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/fishboat/fish/recreational/lakes/falcon/access.phtml#pointb
(bottom of the page)
Blink you’ve been pretty quiet here.
Do you know if ANYONE in U.S. LE is evem looking into this?
I’ve never seen a case so glossed over as this before.
I have spoken to my sister in law in Zapata so far. Her son is a deputy sheriff there.They have others in the family there who are in Border Patrol but I haven’t talked to them yet. The deputy sheriff son won’t talk about it at all and has been instructed by higher command of some sort not to. According to my sister in law there have been rumors over the past couple of years in Zapata that there are several persons in the Sheriffs department who the town people think are cartel associated. Because…those particular individuals apparently have way more money to spend than that of someone on the Sheriff department’s payroll. They live in big mansion houses and drive luxury cars. That’s something I haven’t seen because I haven’t been there in a fairly long time but when I was there the last time it looked like your basic nothing little border town with very little in it and certainly, no mansions. Most people go to Laredo to shop because Zapata has so little. The biggest talk going around is about the jet skis. According to her, there was only ONE jet ski on the water and that it was riddled with bullet holes and that most people believe that David and Tiffany were on it together. No one can understand at all how he was shot and she wasn’t based on how many bullet holes there were. Our family folks know the mystery witness and his identity has not been revealed because he’s an elderly man and he’s afraid. He lives in a little house right on the water. I’ve seen those houses, there’s just a small area on the lake where there are several of these little houses and basically, they all look more or less like mobile homes. He was sitting outside and according to him, he saw her on the jet ski coming towards him with two boats behind her and that she drove the jet ski up onto the land right below his yard and that as soon as she was on the land, the two boats turned around and went towards the Mexican side.
Our conversation was cut short but I’m calling her back later to ask about the life jacket, the blood, testing and all of that.
I got the gist from what she was saying that there might be a much larger investigation going on that involves a whole lot more than this one incident. That the Hartley incident was just a smaller part of this larger investigation. I’m thinking that perhaps there was already an investigation going on by another agency, Homeland Security, FBI, etc. that are looking at these suspicious persons within the Sheriff’s department and their connections to the cartels.
My sister in law and her family have known the sheriff for a while and she didn’t think that he was involved but also conceded that there’s a chance he could be. I’m pretty convinced that there was some kind of surveillance already going on before the Hartley’s showed up and that whatever happened is probably recorded but has not been released or discussed because of this possible bigger investigation. As far as my sister in law knew, there is no local investigation pertaining to the Hartley’s. I would tend to think that if a higher agency is looking at something much larger, anything as far as information would be squashed because they don’t want the cartels to know what they know. It could very well be that they’ve been watching that area for a couple of years and following people. Similar to what they did in Columbia with Pablo Escobar.
I don’t think any of us are going to hear doodley about any possible involvement by Tiffany with David’s murder if there is a larger investigation in play. If she was involved, it’ll probably be revealed whenever it is that the bigger investigation is done.
I’ll see what else I can find out when I talk to Zapata people later and also, I’ve put in queries to others in law enforcement/government places but am still waiting to hear back from them. I have a cousin who is a detective in Las Vegas and he says it was the Zetas that killed David. My sister in law also did mention that there are two cartels at war there on the other side of Falcon Lake.
Am unable to get either livestreaming link to work on that website.
Google: Robert Fish Tackle, zapata, texas – map(satellite)
A fairly detailed map should pop up. I moved the map around, found
a subway off 83 with an ATM, around that area.
@Lee,
Thank you, thank you, thank you!! You have provided invaluable information as to what might be going on. I hope you will take the time to visit my link earlier from global research. It explains alot about what may be going on in the drug war. I too have family in law enforcement and they absolutely cannot say a word about an ongoing investigation.
What Mike Whitney says about what caused the Mexico situation to turn so deadly makes alot of sense. It also explains why so many are willing to risk their lives to cross the border and come here. But now we are at risk. Because some of them are former cartel members fleeing the violence and they have rival members wanting revenge.
Be that as it may, I am standing by my original instincts that this incident was staged.
Robert Fish Tackle, zapata, texas (googled -maps)
I found an ATM down the road from the Subways on 83.I moused around and a found couple of possible, boat ramps, on the map, from the left of the ATM (83).
A lodge on Lake Falcon has a boat ramp, could one ramp be the lodge’s? It could just be a slide of dirt, too. I need to subscribe to “earth” Google.
If they ate at the Subway’s on 83,the sandwich shop is a hop, skip and a jump, no matter, where that ramp is located. How could he have
disappeared, so close? If he was not on the Lake, where did he escape to? He would have been few miles, down the road, if this is is the eating stop at Subway on 83.
@lee
THANK YOU for that detailed information. It is VERY helpful in adding pieces to this confounding puzzle.
@Lee,
One more thing, some brave soul needs to follow the money down there and find out who sold the fancy cars and mansions to public officials whose salary could never afford them. Once you find out who sold the houses and cars, then go after who did the financing. My guess, there won’t be any because it was cash on the barrelhead, laundered drug money. You can look up any deed on a county tax assessor website and tell whether or not there is a warranty deed which means there is a lienholder or if the house was sold for cash.
@Lee – WHAAAA? I’m just trying to make sense of your last post. There is definitely a missing jetski. The sheriffs pulled DH’s vehicle over and there were 2 jetskis on it. But you’re saying people said there was only 1 on the lake? And that it was riddled with bulletholes? How does this make sense? And only ONE shot out of all those shots hit one person? How then did Tiffany steer her jetski back to the U.S. side with not a single hole in it? And where is the jetski with all the bulletholes? That makes 2 jetskis, not one. This doesn’t make sense at all. And we still have no proof that David is even dead, respectfully, even if your cousin thinks so. And now the mystery witness is saying he saw TWO boats following Tiffany’s jetski? I thought it was always one boat in every previous story. I’m completely lost with what you are saying. One thing does make sense though, if there is some cartel mixed in with the Sheriff’s dept. that would certainly explain why he’s never demanded a lie detector test from Tiffany. Again it makes me wonder if Tiffany hooked up with some guy while David was working so much, and maybe she helped set him up. Maybe that is her guilt in all this and everyone is helping her cover up. She is NOT sad about David being gone. It’s creepy. There is definitely a lot of SILENCE going on with this case, at every level. MOO
BLINK – PLEASE SPEAK!!!!
There were unequivocally 2 jet skis, and Tiffany’s did not so much as have a mark on it.
B
Posts are great!
This girl is going to slip up eventually. If most on this site feel something is ‘off’ (understatement) with this case and the grieving widow , then surely LE feels it too. I’m thinking they’re playing along….for now, imho.
Tried to look up real estate records in Zapata County. Cannot find them. There is NO website listing Zapata County appraisals like what you can find in every other county in the country. If perhaps I’m wrong somebody else look it up and post the website. It lists an address and a phone number, that’s it.
Please note: I am “assuming” this is the restaurant location.
+++++++++++
I am sorry, it is not a hop, skip and a jump. It would take 34 minutes
in travel time. The google car is available to travel.:)
Subway: 408 HWY 83,Zapata is 30 miles to Park Road 46, Roma, TX, 78584
SUBWAY- 408 North US Highway 83, Zapata, TX
1.1 mi SE
A.SUBWAY
408 North US Highway 83, Zapata, TX – (956) 765-3265
Driving directions to Park Road 46, Roma, TX 78584
34 minsUS-83 S
30.0 mi
408 U.S. 83Zapata, TX 78076
1. Head south on US-83 S 25.8 mi
2. Turn right at Farm to Market Rd 2098/Ranch Rd 2098 2.7 mi
3. Turn right at Park Rd 46/Ranch Rd 2098 1.0 mi
4. Take the 1st left onto Park Rd 46 0.5 mi
Park Road 46
19.ChiaPet517 says:
November 7, 2010 at 9:21 pm
@Lee – WHAAAA? I’m just trying to make sense of your last post.
—————-
Lee is relaying info. Take it into consideration that she is sharing info because we asked. Errors, could lie within whoever told her the story. KEY word in Lee’s statement was RUMORS. Lee could have blew us all off, but she was considerate enough to come back and share, even with mixed emotions in regards to the site.
Lee, thank you for your info. Some of us do appreciate it. Keep the reports coming. I’m willing to read, analyze, & cogitate silently.
Have we ever actually SEEN the jet ski TH rode back on? Or is it under wraps like the life vest?
I have seen it personally, yes.
B
Lee, thank you so much for your efforts at uncovering information on this case and for sharing it here. Does the information you gathered recently about a possible “larger case” change your views about what you think might have happened involving Tiffany and David?
After reading your post about possible involvement of sheriff’s deputies in the drug cartel, I am now starting to wonder about the three sheriff’s deputies who coincidentally happened to pull over David and Tiffany on that fateful day. It’s interesting to me that there were three deputies who pulled them over, and that Tiffany claims that there were three boats that went after her and David. Maybe there’s nothing to that, but it caught my attention.
I have a hard time believing that Sheriff Sigi is somehow involved in or responsible for the murder or disappearance of David, but I have to admit that his behavior surrounding it has seemed odd. There are so many inconsistencies and apparent inappropriate handlings of the whole thing, that I have to believe there is much more to the story that he knows but cannot or does not want to divulge.
I also have a difficult time picturing Tiffany as a mastermind of a complicated plot. I do not believe her varying accounts of the incident, but I just cannot imagine her as the leader of a crime as complicated as this seems to be.
Lee, your post brings up so many more questions for me now. I’m glad you decided to stick around here and keep contributing to this site.
I want to say, I, too have ceased posting and even some reading because of the unequivocal opinion that TH is guilty of SOMETHING. Even if it didn’t “go down” exactly like she said it did, no one is willing to concede that it is possible that it happened as she says.
We read the Borderland Beat, I teach in public schools, I got the memo about the cartels infiltrating the ELEMENTARY, as well as Intermediate and High schools, recruiting members, we understand the relationships amongst certain LE and the cartels, they are many times “familia”. We understand her urgency to leave the area. No, it may not make sense to anyone else, but how many of you are living down here? How many of you understand this culture? There was an “unbelievable” incident just this last week to an American couple in Playa del Carmen where he was jailed and she was left to fend for herself while the American Consulate left them high and dry. They had to bribe their way out of the country with the help of missionaries. Unbelievable? Yes. Did it happen they way they said it did? Yes. It happens EVERY day, it just doesn’t make the news.
So, Lee, I am with you. It happened, and it happened like she said, I can’t see enough variation in her stories to subscribe to the conspiracy theories, they seem to be wilder than the reported events. And, for the record, Lee says “according” to her contact, there was one Jetski, it wasn’t stated as fact. Furthermore, I would not be surprised if Mexico or the cartels has recovered the other bullet-ridden Jetski, but it has not made it public. It is a world that not many of us understand, and it certainly makes no sense when viewed thru rational, analytical, and deliberate fact-finding minds. The way we solve crime in the U.S. does not apply to the guerrilla type warfare they use.
Methinks you need to read Lee’s recent post, I would say it is a fair representation to state she has migrated to the other side of the fence on this one.
B
I’m only telling you what My sister in law said.
My sister in law said one jet ski on the water and to me she meant they were only using one on the water. No one said that there were not two jet skis. Is it too hard to imagine one in the water with the Hartleys on it and one in the water near the shore that neither was riding at that moment?
I haven’t seen anything myself that proves that they were riding together or separately. We don’t even know how much time actually elapsed between the shooting and when Tiffany rode up where the old man was. If they were riding together and Tiffany was in on some elaborate plan to get rid of David, how do we know they didn’t ride together and at some juncture, Tiffany didn’t jump off and then after the shooting, she got back on?
Anyway, I’ve talked to others now and in Zapata, that is what they are saying and no more because apparently, everyone in law enforcement, from local to Federal aren’t talking. That to me says that there’s a reason why this story is going nowhere. I also think that the witness was not only afraid but was told also not to talk to anyone about it. It seems perfectly logical to me that this really is something much larger than just the Hartleys. Law enforcement just does not clamp down like that for no reason. Neither does the media.
I’m even more convinced that there is something bigger in play just because of the fact that our relatives in Zapata who are in law enforcement both local and Federal aren’t even talking to each other about it.
And as I said before, that investigator in Mexico was not beheaded for no reason. That was a very clear message. After his beheading, isn’t that the precise moment when this story started to close up as far as any further details?
We have that video of the traffic stop. Do we actually know who the officer was that stopped them? If not, why do you suppose we don’t know?
Travel Update:
I traveled in the Google car “Street View” from Subway to Park Rd 46.
There is nothing but Brush along the way. Brush to my left and brush to my right, brush, brush, brush.
I could not go beyond a certain point in the Google car.
I keyed in Park Avenue and moused around, found three or four buildings around the boat dock. Note: “Park Road 46″ runs around in a
circle, Park Avenue veers off, I only typed in Park Avenue trying
to outsmart the computer. It is Park Road 46 to the right on the map.
Park Avenue is the wrong direction, I only hoped to mosey around.
The Feds should investigate the route with all the “Brush” from
Subway, 408 Hwy 83 to Park Rd. 46, Toma, TX. The route to Boat Ramp.
I am speculating. Opinions are my own.
I am hanging up my raincoat for the day
I was interrupted when writing my last post.
My sister in law also said that the belief in Zapata is that the Hartley’s were involved with the cartels in the drug world.
What if they had been followed for some time and we’re being followed that day and that traffic stop was made on purpose by law enforcement just to observe what was in their truck, etc? It is certainly not outrageous to think that law enforcement would follow the little fish to get to the bigger fish. I don’t think it’s impossible to believe that the Feds could have some kind of arrangement with Tiffany that was made after the incident.
I just want to chime in for a moment. This is heartbreaking to me. The thought of losing my husband makes me choke up and if it actually happened, I have no idea how I would react but I DO know that I would, in some manner, be a disaster. Screaming, Crying, Catatonic I don’t know. This woman seems like she has no soul. She seems devoid of any feelings–she creeps me out.
My personal opinion and speculation (no facts at all) is that she has “friends in high places” in the drug cartel or something. Maybe a lover or something–most likely the system is so corrupt that we’ll never know but it breaks my heart to think of this guy, his parents losing their son, him losing his life, his real friends and people who love him–and this selfish, evil wench getting away with murder.
I hope karma bites her in the buttocks.
My blessing go out to all those who loved this man.
This hole story is making me sick.
Thanks for the link to Gail’s show- YUCK- One statement, again, jumped out at me- and it was Tiffany saying that God- AND David kept saying -You gotta get out of here GO GO!- IMO, She keeps getting closer to saying that David was alive when she left him- could it be that this is why her story doesn’t add up- She is lying because she left him- maybe they were caught up in something that went wrong very fast- and David told her to leave- and she did.
Lee, It seems that your family, and now you, seem to be questioning Tiffany’s account/S. IMO everyone should be wondering about The Falcon Lake Incident. There is at least 1 pic of Tiff’s jetski after the incident, in the parking lot, and it wasn’t even touched- no bullet holes no paint chips- no damage.
You wrote that your family and now you, believe other agency’s are involved and were involved before this incident,& that there is a bigger investigation going on now.
IIRC Blink said that multiple agencies ware involved- IIRC they were the FBI DEA and ATF ???- Not sure? Blink? Anyone?
Anyway, Maybe part of the investigation all along has been drug running- and drug activity ect?…and not just by the cartels but by others?
I keep hearing how many good people are being recruited by the cartels- people in LE, people in security- ect ect-seems it is very likely that there is a bigger investigation going on, and some of it is wrapped up in The falcon lake Incident. Sad and scary.
Blink, Hello- what are your thoughts on why the swabs release was retracted?
Do you think the investigation is ongoing? Will we ever hear anymore about this incident from anyone other that Tiffany? TIA
Sorry all about my spelling errorsin my last post.
Lee, WOW- just read your last post, after submitting mine- You certainly have done a 180. Welcome to the other side of the fence- or lake as it may be-
I commend you for voicing your newfound concerns- it takes a big person to admit they may have jumped the gun previously- thank you and nice to know you can be swayed by facts and opinions.
Going from defending Tiffany and her account/S to voicing your family’s thoughts that Tiffany and her husband may have been involved WITH the Cartels and drug running…
I don’t know what happened, and I don’t know if this is the case- but certainly, you now believe as the rest of us, that there needs to be a FULL INVESTIGATION into what Tiffany says happened that day?
Jettx, Hello-
Its okay that you feel differently- please don’t stop posting – You are right may be Tiffany is not guilty of any illegal wrong- doing- but you wrote:
“Even if it didn’t “go down” exactly like she said it did, no one is willing to concede that it is possible that it happened as she says.”
That’s the whole point Jet- IT COULDN’T have happened EXACTLY the way Tiffany says-
As you wrote, Tiffany may be innocent, I agree entirely, but there needs to be a full investigation- and let the evidence speak for itself- so far there is NO physical evidence that collaborates Tiffany.
I do not get from Lee’s post anywhere that she has jumped the fence. I still see it as objective and relative to the information she was given. All we have in any form is speculation. No one knows if they were involved in a cartel. Chances are, they may have known someone that was a member of the cartel, but that is not uncommon. I’m a school teacher and know for a fact that there is a student in my class that her parent is involved heavily. No one knows for sure what happened, but it is possible and very likely that it happened the way she described.
Maybe it is me, but didnt she start out feeling like folks were ganging up on Zapata LE, and now in her own words the sentiment is that some may be connected to the cartel? That sounds like encroachment to me.
B
…and just when I was gonna buy those cute shoes at the bottom of the screen… have I been banned? My posts are vanishing!
wow, the “our Mission” portion of that website (bringdavidhome.com) would be weird if it weren’t for the fact that THIS WIFE CLAIMS HER HUSBAND WAS SHOT, KILLED, CARTED OFF AND BURIED BY MEXICAN PIRATES!!!!! “Our Mission” is intriguing language also… Our = whom? Our = her church? I feel icky just looking at that website. She has so muddied the issue, and to use her husband (and/or his apparent disappearance) to further her agenda is just beyond reproach.
And I am not even sure it is HER agenda, as many of you have asserted as well… I am intrigued by the mess that this is, and David has gotten lost in all of it, even for me. Sad…
In Light of lee’s thoughts regarding Tiffany’s possibly working with investigators… i found this article very interesting, of course it could be coincidence that this is happening now-
From the DenverPost.com
“Colo. drug ring with ties to Mexico dismantled
The Associated Press
DENVER—Colorado and federal authorities say they’ve dismantled a drug ring that had ties to a Mexican drug cartel.
The Denver Metro Gang Task Force and the U.S. Department of Justice announced the multi-year investigation into cocaine and crack cocaine trafficking on Monday. They plan to release details at a press conference in the afternoon.”
@Lee – thank you again for your comments and I realize you are relaying information on rumors that have been heard. It’s just weird information! And thanks for clarifying about the 1 ski/2skis. Definitely food for thought and all posters here are entitled to their opinions. We all bounce off each other’s remarks to try and make sense of things.
@Lee & Jettx – I would be interested to hear what doubts you might have in Tiffany’s story(ies) and exactly where. Or if you truly think that it all could have happened exactly the way Tiffany says, I would be interested to read why you think she would not have just taken a lie detector test immediately to clear up people’s doubts, and why you think her story has changed about 10 times if she is telling the truth. I mean no offense here, I am truly curious as to your own opinions, and where you think there are problems with her story(ies). As Blink and others here have pointed out, it’s the inconsistencies and improbabilities that have most of us suspicious – when you have 1 or 2 i’s and i’s it’s one thing, but when you have a whole bunch of them then the element of disbelief creeps in.
@zinnia – I agree with you, I think that there is much more to this than we know. The silence is deafening and the media behavior is puzzling. And yes, I don’t think Tiffany would have been a leader in all this but she certainly could have been a follower. It doesn’t seem likely that she would have been smart enough to plan something on her own to get rid of David, but she certainly could have helped set him up for someone else do it, and she would have had plenty of time to be in on a plan. She talked about the long periods of time that David was working and wasn’t around (I think I read 2 to 3 jobs at once sometimes). Tiffany wasn’t working in Mexico or Texas as far as I’ve read, and she has no children to care for, so what did she do with all that time? Where did she go? Whom did she hang out with? I find it hard to believe she would just stay in the house alone day after day and do nothing.
All MOO on that last post of course!
29.zinnia says:
November 8, 2010 at 9:10 am
“…After reading your post about possible involvement of sheriff’s deputies in the drug cartel, I am now starting to wonder about the three sheriff’s deputies who coincidentally happened to pull over David and Tiffany on that fateful day.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think the Hartleys were pulled over by TXDPS officers, not sheriff’s deputies. DPS troopers work for the state, not the county.
Did anyone by any chance see yesterday’s memorial service? I will continue to watch these things for clues. There always seem to be clues, mannerisms, facial expressions that speak volumes. Now on that website they have actually declared that there is going to be a THIRD, yes, gag, a third one, oh this one is to celebrate David AND Tiffany. Cause you know you can never have too many memorial services.
I do not believe for a minute that these two were involved with any cartel. Had they been, Tiffany would have been shark bait in a nanosecond. There is no way they would not have killed her. David is alive. This was a scam pulled right before the election to instill fear and swing the vote. The drug war is being escalated on purpose by factions within our own government. I find it very significant that this Sheriff Gonzalez has repeated many times, and the media chanting after him, oh, Muslim terrorists are entering our country via Mexico.
Possibly I need to re-read, but I took it to be the words of her SIL. That she was merely relaying information.
Mom3.0, you are right, there is no evidence that corroborates TH’s story, other than a witness that is now silent. However, there is no evidence to the contrary, except a LACK of evidence. That is what keeps me in the “it really happened” zone. The cartels and such are famous, and quite adept I might add, at hiding what they want hidden. This has cartel written all over it. I just keep saying it, these are not normal criminals. I also have to believe that if she were to be part of a more clandestine plot, that she would have been tripped up already. Sorry to say, but I don’t believe she is a genius, and that is what this kind of plot would require. Next, the only full investigation will be done by the U.S. side, believe me. Mermaid mentioned following the money trail, they have and it leads right to the cartels. The Mexican govt is so corrupt that most of us will never know the depth of corruption. My brother had a little incident in Mexico several years ago while on govt business. He was part of the Boll Weevil eradication program and his trip turned to a nightmare. He has not, and will not EVER go back. Please don’t get me started on the problems down here…lol…I could go on forever. Take a peek at the El Paso Times, or the Blog del Narco, and read the comments. You will get a real feel of the climate down here.
My initial rants stemmed from the fact that so many people didn’t seem to really understand how very common these incidents are on the border and that we rarely ever get to know exactly what happened. Most of what I had read here early on seemed to completely dismiss the idea that the cartels were at all involved. We own some property in Hudspeth County which is about 50 miles from El Paso. Hudspeth does not have a lake but, it’s a lot like Zapata and if you talk to the people who live there close to the river across from Mexico, they would tell you that every day they can see the fighting, the smuggling and the cartel activity from their own homes. Just recently our paper had an article about Fort Hancock which is in Hudspeth County which stated that the cartels have been recruiting teenagers from Fort Hancock.
I never came out and defended Tiffany other than to say that I didn’t think that she had anything to offer that would motivate any cartel people to help her do anything. David could have been more involved with something that began in Reynoso. It could also be that David was going to be part of something for the cartel and part of the plan was to ultimately move to Colorado and act on behalf of the cartel there. The cartels in general just do not really have dealings with women. If they do, it’s a woman that has some kind of major influence or is married to or related to someone high in the narco world. There’s no way that Tiffany arranged some kind of murder for hire with anyone other than cartel to take place in that specific area because of the fact that the Zetas are in control of that area.I think it’s more likely that she and David were involved with drugs and that they planned to do something there and something happened to cause the Zetas to shoot him. It could have been one of the baby Zetas and the reason Tiffany was not shot was because one of the older Zetas stopped it. I don’t believe that the Zetas (the older ones) would ever condone or order the shooting of an American citizen in an area that is so open like Falcon Lake is, much less in broad daylight. Not finding his body isn’t at all unusual. If they took his body into Mexico there are a million places and ways they could have gotten rid of it. If there were Mexican law enforcement around at the time, they did nothing which is not unusual either. One never can know who law enforcement really is in Mexico. Wearing a uniform proves nothing at all. People in Mexico are so accustomed to the violence that they can just casually walk by bodies in the street. We just saw a major fight in the streets of Juarez and within an hour, the public was walking through the area and going about their daily business as though nothing had happened, not even flinching at the sight of blood in the street. They walk by as if it’s nothing when they see a dismembered person tied to a telephone pole. Most of the people in the US border areas of Mexico are so scared all the time that they never open their mouths about anything they see or hear. And you have to keep in mind that a whole lot of people that live on the US side of the Mexican border, close to the border, are people from Mexico who came over to escape the violence. They aren’t going to speak up just because they are on our side of the border. They have a natural inclination not to trust law enforcement and who can blame them for that?
My husband just told me that several of his sisters will be going to Zapata at the end of this month for a family function. It is possible that I can go with them. If I can, I will and if I do….I will take photos of everything in Zapata that I see that might answer more questions and of course I would try to find out whatever I could about what happened.
BTW, I forgot to mention before that my sister in law has not heard or seen one thing about the life vest. Although it was stated in the media that the Sheriff has possession of it, it could be that he does not and was asked to turn it over to Federal law enforcement. IF it went for testing, I’m sure we all know that sometimes biological testing can take months. And, if Mexican law enforcement is involved with the US investigators, they could be in possession of the vest to do their own testing. Remember that statement that was issued to the press by the Mexicans stating that they were no longer investigating the Hartley incident? I would bet money that it’s not true and that they only said so to convey the idea that they aren’t investigating.
I’ve seen many of these same kinds of incidents and this is the first time I’ve ever seen the Mexican’s issue a specific statement like that saying that they were no longer investigating. Normally, you hear much of nothing from them.
“Maybe it is me, but didnt she start out feeling like folks were ganging up on Zapata LE, and now in her own words the sentiment is that some may be connected to the cartel? That sounds like encroachment to me.”
B
I was defensive about LE in Zapata….because I know that our family who is in that LE are not involved in any kind of nefarious activity. At the time that I had said that, I was not aware of the fact that certain persons in the Sheriff’s department were being investigated.
I still don’t think that the Sheriff himself is involved. And frankly, it never even occurred to me that there could be cartel people within Zapata law enforcement.
It’s kind of hard to recruit people for law enforcement in little towns like that because most people don’t want to live and work in an area like that. Sometime last year there was a big push by Border Patrol to recruit people to work in Marfa,TX and they were offering double or triple the pay because of the fact that no one wanted to live or work there. Laredo is bigger than Zapata but it’s not a whole lot better. The first time we went there we were shocked by the fact that the highway just abruptly ended and you could go nowhere but exit to the right. That exit has two lanes and if you’re in the right one, you go immediately into Mexico. If you go left, you can go into Laredo and or go to Zapata. I’ve never been anywhere in the United States in my life where the highway just ended like that. Once you’re heading into Mexico, there’s no way to go back unless you go in and are allowed to turn around. And I stress….IF you are allowed to turn around.
ok, so respectfully, the short answer is yes.
B
Did Tiffany pay an entrance fee to enter the lake? Thank-you.
Falcon State Park
Located off US 83, 30 miles south of Zapata. Take FM 2098 toward the dam and turn right on Park Road 46.
Ramp will accommodate all boat types
Park entrance fee required
Open all year
Operated by Texas Parks & Wildlife Department
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/fishboat/fish/recreational/lakes/falcon/access.phtml#pointb