Murder In Mexico: Tiffany Hartley Endures 16 Hours Of Interviews In David Hartley Death
..” I have nothing to hide. I Have ABSOLUTELY nothing to hide..”
Tiffany Hartley emerged on CNN’s Anderson Cooper 360 yesterday after her 16th hour of interviews at the Mexican Consulate in McAllen, Texas.
Hartley recounted the events of September 30, ending with the alleged murder of her husband David. Ms. Hartley gave both new testimony and confirmed her previous statements according to reports from the Mexican Attorney General and Ms. Hartley herself, without the presence of an attorney.
According to several statements from Hartley, David was shot “off his jet ski” while the couple was returning from the Mexican side of Falcon Lake, where they briefly took pictures of the historic church on Old Guerrerro. Neither David Hartley nor his Sea Doo watercraft have been recovered.
One of the most baffling aspect of the case, is the fact that Ms. Hartley claims the pair were shot at at as they were driving their jet skis away from alleged “pirates” they both waved a friendly hello to, seconds before. Tiffany Hartley was uninjured in the attack, and her jet ski was not hit in the gunfire. Although media was alerted last week that tests on a possible blood source on Tiffany’s life vest were due back that afternoon, we were quickly told there would be no updates about the possible blood evidence at this time.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime Editor spoke with Chuck Smith, owner Smith Marina USA about specifics of the Sea Doo RXT.
..Your correct, the RXT has a chip in the starter that is electronically programmed to “match” the owners lanyard key. If he was wearing the lanyard, whether attached to his vest, or in some cases the arm, and he was thrown off the ski, it activates a kill switch and will not start without the key it is programmed to without a factory reprogramming, which of course, one would need the paperwork for. In short, no matter what, they would need his key to start it.
Blink Question: What if he was not attached to the key, and he was shot and flew off the unit “in motion”, this would not shut the engine off, correct?
CS: Correct. The ski would continue in the direction the handlebars were pointing and continue to throttle in that direction.
Blink: How hard are these models to sink?
CS: Virtually impossible. I have never actually heard of, or seen one, sink to the bottom. The way the Coast Guard standards are now with these, they have hulls similar to boats.
Blink: Could enough bullet holes sink it? What about if the contiuum– could that have caused it to flip? Could anyone right it?
CS: No, not unless we are talking morter rounds. I guess in theory an automatic weapon could put enough holes cut it in half if that was the goal, but again, your still going to see shards of fiberglass all over the water, remnants similar to a boat accident or crash. Again, under these circumstances, I don’t see how he could flip it, but if it were, again, harder to see because the bottom is black, but any SAR or Coast Guard deployment knows what abnormalities to look for on the water surface. It would be next to impossible to “right it” in deep water. It would be more likely they would drag it to shallow water.
Blink: Is this chop-shoppable?
CS: Absolutely. There is some after factory devices, similar to lo jack, but the engine and parts are expensive and could easily be sold that way.
Blink: He was wearing a PFD I. In your opinion is that keeping him afloat until he is located if he was left in the water?
CS: Absolutely, unless it was removed, or he and the vest were removed from the water, he would be floating, yes.
As announced this morning on Dana Pretzer commentary, Blink, Editor In Chief of blinkoncrime.com will be discussing the Hartley case this evening live at 9PM EST on Scared Monkeys The Dana Pretzer Show.
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@ ChiaPet517 says:
November 15, 2010 at 4:00 pm
Maybe they just racked up a bunch of credit card debt….if not, that’s a money trail I would want to follow.
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I had made mention of that type of scenario a while ago.. Instead of this being a ‘claim the insurance game’ it could be about ‘ditching the bills’ a modern form of claiming bankruptcy.. Obviously this has now become more lucrative since TH is getting paid for the pics; & maybe now a National Geographic docudrama.. TH is the perfect pitch person blond, young & perky (meow).. Their credit file/score info must have been very informative to LE.. While I can understand National Geographic doing a show on border security etc I’m just really surprised that they jumped on board with this story since the Hartley events are still not proven fact.. Take a look at this on the National Geographic web site..
@Mermaid14 :
re:
It boggles my mind how they were able to do and have all of this on one income alone in just 8 short years.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I concur.. And don’t forget out of this one salary there were the usual things one pays for like utilities, food, clothing, gas, unexpected expenses & the ever popular ‘health & dental care’..
Lee, thanks for the link I will check there- I was able to at least find the mention of the officers leaving because of the trucks moving past them full of marijuana- Here’s the weird part- Each of these links are now broken- I can’t read/watch the original story- but I KNOW that it was reported that this shipment was later found to be agency related- I will keep searching…. Here are snips of the articles- mentioning the trucks-
** important parts
This First link goes back to KRGV- but then reads “ERROR PAGE NOT FOUND”
DPS Releases Hartley Footage
By KRGV Local News on October 8, 2010
FALCON LAKE – The Texas Department of Public Safety released video footage of David and Tiffany Hartley. It was taken just hours before the murder on Falcon Lake.
It shows DPS troopers pulling over the Hartley’s at 11:30 a.m. in Rio Grande City last Thursday. That’s about three hours before Tiffany says Mexican pirates killed her husband on Falcon Lake. Troopers pulled them over for an expired registration sticker on their trailer. The two jet skis can be seen in the back. David Hartley’s voice can be heard on the video.
A DPS spokesman says David Hartley ***would have received a ticket but they saw two trucks pass by with marijuana in the back. They let the Hartley’s go after about 10 minutes and moved on.***
http://www.mcallen-news.com/tag/falcon/
With this article-When you click on the link to read more- it is broken-
Falcon | McAllen News
A DPS spokesman says David Hartley** would have received a ticket but they saw two trucks pass by with marijuana in the back** … says, “The body’s not gonna be found. They …
http://www.mcallen-news.com/tag/falcon – Cached
This snip comes from The Jane Valdez Mitchell Show- but I can’t find the actual interview with the trooper-
jvm interview
**TROOPER JOHNNY HERNANDEZ, TEXAS DEPT. OF PUBLIC SAFETY:** The trailer had expired registration so we pulled it over and made contact with David Hartley. He advised he was coming from McAllen, Texas on his way to Falcon Lake to enjoy the day over there.
This last one, was written on Oct 12 and questions the validity of bandits moving marijuana in open bed trucks- it does not mention the officers later stating the trucks were agency related:
http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2010/10/tiffany_young-hartley_clairvoy.php
That they were pulled over does enhance the credibility of Tiffany’s timeline: for at least part of that fateful Thursday, she was with her husband when and where she said they were.
But this is where it gets weird. While Hartley was not cited for a traffic violation, it was because…get this: ***According to San Antonio’s KENS-TV, “A DPS spokesperson said David Hartley would have received a ticket but they saw two trucks pass by with marijuana loaded in the back.”****
Wow. Just wow. These drug lords are some seriously inventive mofos. I’ve read of weed lining the inside of statues of the Virgin Mary, secret compartments of every description in every type of vehicle, drugs stuffed inside of living animals, and on and on and on.
And we are to believe that these two trucks chugged past these two cops in broad daylight, on a fairly major highway, brazenly hauling huge bales of unconcealed weed?
falconsm101110.gif
The scene of the….allegations
That scenario brings to mind two more questions.
First, if there is a point to be made about porous border security, the fact that smugglers would even think for a moment that they could drive down the road with a truck-bed piled sky-high with sticky green, well that to me speaks more eloquently than some murky incident that took place well over on the other side, even if the official story is to be believed.
And number two, when did Cheech and Chong sign on as couriers for the Zetas?
——
As I said I’ll keep looking but to me, regardless of whether or not this shipment was agency related- (which I distinctly remember, do BG’s transport their loads this way? and if they do, and the troopers went after them- why was there never any mention of these troopers making a major drug bust in correlation to Hartley’s stop? I would think that would make a good story would it not? Much better than- we let them go to chase an agency related drug shipment, that was poorly handled… JMO
And – how did the troopers know these trucks had “mary wanna” in them ? the first truck sped past- the second was slower but still, the trooper could smell it see it? Then if it wasn’t agency related… Drug dealers wouldn’t bother to hide it- cover it nothing? Then too, there is no mention of the third truck, with a trailer that seems to be carrying the exact same cargo??? It all just seems to get stranger and stranger-
@Mom3.0
re:
KRGV Local News: It shows DPS troopers pulling over the Hartley’s at 11:30 a.m. in Rio Grande City last Thursday. That’s about three hours before Tiffany says Mexican pirates killed her husband on Falcon Lake. Troopers pulled them over for an expired registration sticker on their trailer. The two jet skis can be seen in the back. David Hartley’s voice can be heard on the video.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Three hours prior to the incident ? Would three hours be enough time for DH & Th to do the Subway stop, unload the ski’s, do whatever it is you do with the trailer after the unload, put on your water gear, do the jet ski’s into the water thing, go out to the church & do the pic thing which according to TH was only 5 min., get shot at, try to help DH, return to shore ? Was that time a guess on the part of the reporter because to me it seems like a real short time span for all of those activities..
Also, according to that KRGV Local News article “David Hartley’s voice can be heard on the video”; had the reporter heard David’s voice before that he can be so positive that it was his or is this just an assumption..
S.H.,
David is not dead. If anything he is negoitiating for witness protection status.
…..
I know you didn’t write this but if I were trying to negotiate for witness protection status I would go ballistic if my wife was going on every talk show insulting the President and the government!
About the dashcam video. At the beginning of the video when he pulls David over, does anyone hear one of the officers say 11o’clock? Maybe I’m just hearing things.
is this what you’re looking for?….
PS Releases Hartley Footage
By KRGV Local News on October 8, 2010
It shows DPS troopers pulling over the Hartley’s at 11:30 a.m. in Rio Grande City last Thursday. That’s about three hours before Tiffany says Mexican pirates killed her husband on Falcon Lake. Troopers pulled them over for an expired registration sticker on their trailer. The two jet skis can be seen in the back. David Hartley’s voice can be heard on the video.
A DPS spokesman says David Hartley would have received a ticket but they saw two trucks pass by with marijuana in the back. They let the Hartley’s go after about 10 minutes and moved on.
RE: the nibble. I did not see the officers rooting around IN the jet skis whatsoever. At the very most, they were rubbing dirt or something off in ‘about the spot’ where the TX license is located front/left. I couldn’t tell if there were tags on the back end, but certainly your contacts at Sea Doo would be able to say if possible the VIN was there…the officer did write some information down from the rear of both skis…
What’s your point? That there is a possible illegal search of the vehicle, without permission, and this is the reason that LE is quiet about it all? …Without knowing the details of the law, I do know that I am required to have my tags visible on my vehicles…and I don’t think they would have to ask me if they could wipe off some dirt to see it. Not sure on that one tho.
Mom 3.0…
There have been many incidents here in El Paso just as you have described when you’re talking about the traffic stop and the LE taking off to go after the two trucks with weed. Generally speaking, the drug mules very often have what they call something like a lead vehicle…another vehicle that leads in front and has the job of distracting LE while they, the mules go past. That could be what the Hartley’s were actually doing but doesn’t sound that likely to me. The only distraction they could have offered was the fact that they had that one Reynoso license plate.It’s a very common practice on the International bridges as well as on the highway in areas where there are Border Patrol checkpoints.
Here’s a u-tube link that has the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fc0NS97jdSM
I haven’t really checked out the story of the trucks with the weed but I cannot even begin to imagine that the weed was just out in full view. Sounded more likely to me that the LE was waiting for those trucks having been tipped off in advance and knew what they were looking for. That happens all the time here too. Someone will call the Border Patrol checkpoints that are on the side of the highway and tell them to be looking for such and such a vehicle and offer information that that vehicle is transporting something. There’s a checkpoint here past El Paso that one must drive into but it’s location is in the barren desert and very often, the person transporting drugs will hop off the highway, 4 wheel thru the desert past the checkpoint and then back onto the highway.
48.Mermaid14 says:
November 15, 2010 at 10:09 pm
“Neither National Geographic or Tiffany Hartley has a clue what this border and drug war is all about. By the time they figure it out tens of thousands more will have been wiped out. The entire election of this country just a few weeks ago turned on this situation! And it’s all a big lie. They are turning the Mexican people into the next “hated” terror group. I guess they figured people had had enough of the Muslim boogeymen so they had to go and make up another one. This is another game they are going to lose just like they are losing in the Middle East. You cannot “create” an ideological war based on lies, false flag terror incidents, incitement of hate toward an entire race of people, and continuous propaganda from a mass media that is owned by same people that own the war machine. But, oh well, looks like they have succeeded up to this point, they got their lunatics who know nothing about government elected to incite more hate.”
Do not want to start anything political here, but thank you Mermaid. I thought I was alone.
@S.H. & Lizzygoat – I DO like your theories that David is still alive. I was on that train from the beginning also, but only soured on it because I don’t think Tiffany really loves him and so the plot together just didn’t make sense. But the whole thing with the Pemex scams and witness protection programs and DH having to disappear does make a good case…it would explain why LE seems to be turning a blind eye….
@nana2 – You’re right, when you put it that way, it’s HARD to believe they pulled them over at 11:30 a.m., probably held them there until at least 11:45 or so, and then in 2 hours and 45 minutes David is dead? And all that other stuff happened in between? Doesn’t really seem probable.
Sometimes you get a sense from these cases, like I kind of got the sense that Kyron Horman was deceased from Day One (sorry, it’s true I felt this). But with David Hartley I never got that sense. It has always felt to me that he was still out there, and thus the weird behavior from Tiffany, the family, the MINISTER at the memorial, etc.
I wish someone would throw us some good information from somewhere.
Jettx and Mom 3.0,
thank you so much for you’re kind word’s. I feel awful for all the innocent people who have been caught in the cross-fire!
Loco= Spanish for crazy
Mary wanna= pot
IDK if this is what they were saying, but I could hear it going something like this: “Are those dude’s crazy driving right by us with all that pot!”
Chia I actually go either way with David being dead. With the border/political issue Tiffany/witness/sheriff did not give David a story to come back…he was shot in the head with brain matter leaking. He cannot be found beaten up in the desert or held for ransom and rescued. The sheriff is corrupt but I’m not sure if he is involved with this incident or just incompetent. I am now wondering if the marijuana was being delivered to corrupt police officers or they were escorts. Which way would that marijuana have been headed….I don’t know the road or location was it headed from Mexico?? If Falcon Lake was a huge traffic area was it headed there? Was it part of a drug deal?
I have no set beliefs about this case but one of my beliefs is that Tiffany and David were involved in drug dealing…Tiffany being the self-centered princess prize to be won was attracted to a “real” drug dealer. One with flashy clothes and oodles of money…a “real” bad boy. Someone more exciting than David. What throws me off are the border issues, the sheriff and the groups he belongs to. His lack of loyalty to the United States. If I lived in that county I would be going door to door getting people to sign petitions to have him step down from the job he has stated he is too afraid to do.
I hope the FBI is investigating this
On the police tape I heard them say something like “get the VIN” and “Mexico tag” before the approached Hartley’s vehicle. It seemed to me that they were most interested in the identification of the jet skis. They may have believed they were stolen. As far as a search goes, they did not appear to look into anything that wasn’t in open sight already therefore I can see no way it could be an illegal search. I could not hear enough to tell if David said they could “have a look” but it didn’t appear they searched into anything or need his consent.
The law in my state says that anything that is already in open site is fair game even without consent to search. It could even be something inside the vehicle.
lizzygoat says:
November 16, 2010 at 1:31 pm
S.H.,
David is not dead. If anything he is negoitiating for witness protection status.
…..
I know you didn’t write this but if I were trying to negotiate for witness protection status I would go ballistic if my wife was going on every talk show insulting the President and the government!
———
Yep, Lillygoat, you are sooo..right. I just realized it would take a
village idiot to believe that story line, gulp.
What baffles me, Lilly, Davids’ co-worker’s wife, created the $$
website, would they knowing be involved in a scheme? It would be aiding and abetting? if his wife is contributing to luring innocent people into donating false funds, meaning, even though she isn’t give the OK where the funds are going, but she did develop the web page.
I’m thinking that David & TH were possibly involved in the drug world and were living large. Maybe they realized that it was too dangerous to keep doing this & they also started to get more & more in debt. David, then, disappears in Mexico or US & changes his appearance & gets another ID (possibly w/ assistance). TH goes on w/ her egocentric life & getting some $ from interviews & donations &, possibly, later insurance $. I don’t think there’s any love lost between the 2 of them.
The above is all just my own opinion.
A question to Blink: Was David Hartley wearing a PFD that would keep his body turned face up in the water, and not face down as TH alleges, when she went back to “check on him. See if he was OK”? If it was the best kind, PFD 1, I would think it would.
I forgot to add this question about DH’s PFD. If he was wearing that type, it is supposed to keep the wearer’s head above water. I don’t know if they all do, and in what position. How can you be certain that he was wearing a PFD 1? And do you know what brand?
If he were, that would be one part of TH’s too-many-stories-to-keep-up with that could easily be shown to be a lie.
DH could not have been face down as she has said on every media interview. So many stories and so few facts. That is a fact, if proven.
Ok – well who watched Border Wars tonight? A totally new version of David’s run-in with violence in Reynosa. According to Tif – David witnessed a cartel shoot out at an intersection about the same time she claims he was “robbed” by the police. Once again, he didn’t want to tell her?
Urgh. This story…
@ lily
I didn’t watch it.
Any more new factoids from Tiff? Do you remember how or why she brought up this new add-on to the alleged robbery?
How much of this Nat. Geo. was about her? Anything interesting?
S.H.,
I have no idea the legalities about the donations…but burn girl comes to mind.
As far as the family…they have always confounded me. I think it is just a family with absolutely no moral foundation. I think they really don’t know how to critically think or switch gears. No one in that family has imagination or the ability to step in another persons shoes or see through anothers eyes.I don’t think that the parents have any clue about right and wrong. Tiffany and David getting married was birds of a feather flocking together even though she thought her family above his.
This entire case is an epic fail. All of the backstops have failed except maybe the Feds are investigating. Tiffany and maybe David failed. The sheriff failed. The witness failed. Both sets of parents failed. The politicians who had a voice and chose to use it to further their careers failed. The mainstream media failed. And now National Geographic! ( I haven’t watched it yet…taking Lily’s word for it)
There is a book called MADNESS OF CROWDS that I have been meaning to read I think it would pertain to the jumping on Tiffany’s bandwagon mentality. Another good book is HOW WE KNOW WHAT ISN’T SO. I’m good at taking in new ideas but sometimes too good….I have been guilty of not discarding suspect information in a timely fashion. Political polls and headlines…stats about what is healthy to eat…woe is me…now all I see is misinformation reported as fact. That is why I like Blink she teaches restraint.
Sorry I now feel I have written a novel.
Re: Comments about DPS stop.
Several things seem strange.
The first is that the cops were there so long without writing a ticket. What were they waiting for? They followed for a long time and had plenty of time to run the truck tag and trailer tag. One could have been writing a ticket while the other two looked around. They look like the Three Stooges. If they were going to really give them a ticket, why didn’t they? They claimed they would have, but for the marijuana trucks. When?
Second. The trucks with bales of marijuana make no sense at all. I have watched the video many times and don’t see it. Assuming those trucks really passed loaded with mj and the cops went after them, not knowing it was already confiscated pot (which seems really odd), why was the agency–never named–driving around with bales of it in plain view. Haven’t they heard of tarps?
Did those cops really think drug smugglers would just drive on by with open trucks full of marijuana? Is this common practice for a drug-busting agency to drive around like that? Do they do it with cocaine too? Funny no reporter looked into the alleged bust that these trucks were carrying the result of, or checked to see where it was going. Who made the bust? The DEA, local cops, BP?
This seems just as fake as all the other fishy “evidence,” pointing, according to Sheriff Sigi of Zapata, to TH’s indisputable innocence.
@ lily says:
November 17, 2010 at 11:24 pm
Ok – well who watched Border Wars tonight?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lily, I watched it ‘Murder on the Lake’ sounds like a Lifetime TV Movie title. In this version now TH gives the exact colors of all the boats which I don’t recall hearing before & talks about lots of blood in the water after DH is shot & jumping off her ski & into the water for David. I’m surprised that some of that blood didn’t get absorbed into the seams of her bathing suit if there was as much as she was saying. She also talks about having to leave David in the water face up (guess she now knows how the life vest works) & God talking to her is never mentioned. She is extremely detailed in her description of the events including her height & weight vs David’s height & weight which is why according to her she couldn’t lift him onto her ski.
Interesting that David & Tiffany lived in Mexico for 3 yrs & yet waited until they were leaving there to go & see this church which according to Tiffany he wanted to see very badly. I’m surprised they couldn’t find the time to see it while they were living there.
I was also surprised that this program was presented as if the DH shooting & death was proven fact.
Lily, yes I caught that new version of the shooting in Reynosa. What I also saw & heard in this broadcast is that when the cartel murdered or dismembered someone they left the body or the remains to be found as their message to people so why would they keep David’s body or hide it as Tiffany claims. Totally unbelievable that these cartel members would leave a witness to these supposed events.
nana2 says:
November 16, 2010 at 12:07 pm
@Mom3.0
Three hours prior to the incident ? Would three hours be enough time for DH & Th to do the Subway stop, unload the ski’s, do whatever it is you do with the trailer after the unload, put on your water gear, do the jet ski’s into the water thing, go out to the church & do the pic thing which according to TH was only 5 min., get shot at, try to help DH, return to shore ? Was that time a guess on the part of the reporter because to me it seems like a real short time span for all of those activities..
Also, according to that KRGV Local News article “David Hartley’s voice can be heard on the video”; had the reporter heard David’s voice before that he can be so positive that it was his or is this just an assumption..
———–
“Ozonetourist” (a blogger) claims is be associated with the law, said, “no way” to the time frame.
Did, TH back the trailer(to the water)and release the jet ski in that way? That is something I read.
How she can not retain a consistent, story-line, in her brain cells,
is puzzling. A simple story and she could not keep it simple.
@isfahan – David’s life vest has been discussed at great length previously. Just sayin’.
@ S.H.
re:
Did, TH back the trailer(to the water)and release the jet ski in that way? That is something I read.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well she could back the trailer up to the water but I would think that someone else would have to hold on to the ski to guide it into the water..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@“Ozonetourist” (a blogger) claims is be associated with the law, said, “no way” to the time frame.
Does he/she think its more or less on the 3 hours..
If there was in fact NO blood evidence on that vest, then the Zapata sheriff lied to the press. After the vest appeared on the Today Show when it was supposed to be still in custody, he was asked how it could have appeared on tv if it was still in their custody. He said that it was in fact still in the sheriff’s dept custody. This could not have been true. It couldn’t be in both places. This is my mind makes me mistrust his word and his intentions.
@Nana2,
What were the 3 colors that TH said the boats were? On the 911 recording she says green, black and white.
BTW, National Geo should be considered just like the History Channel and the rest. All owned by mega corporations. They are now part of the coverup, they are part of the mainstream media.
@ChiaPet517
Thanks, didn’t read all posts here (There are over 800.). I read this description of the PFD 1, above.
I assume from your comment that no one believes he could have been face down. Yet, although I have not been following the case on this site, I have been following it closely.
If he was wearing that type of vest, it’s extraordary that TH’s account, of flipping him over, was not questioned. I did not see where Blink said how she knew what kind of vest he was wearing on September 30.
I have also never seen anywhere any question about his life vest being specifically that type. Many people are still wondering what kind of life vest he was wearing.
Perhaps in a post you could tell me how anyone knew for certain he was wearing a PFD 1. I would appreciate that as I don’t know how far back this was discussed here.
@ Mermaid14 says:
Guess I missed the colors on the 911 call but the only colors I thought she mentioned on the NGeo show last night were black & white..
Here is the NGeo site links for this Murder on the Lake program which I plan to watch again since I was doing animal rescue updates while I was watching this ♥..
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/tv-schedule
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/border-wars/6112/Overview
Posted time schedule for reruns (EST)
11/20 10:00 PM
11/21 1:00 AM
11/22 1:00 PM
11/24 10:00 PM
11/25 1:00 AM
12/1 6:00 PM
@nana2
“In this version now TH gives the exact colors of all the boats which I don’t recall hearing before & talks about lots of blood in the water after DH is shot & jumping off her ski & into the water for David. I’m surprised that some of that blood didn’t get absorbed into the seams of her bathing suit if there was as much as she was saying.”
She did say that one boat was white and one was “dark green or black.” In all her interviews, I have never heard her describe three colors, nor, as you said, mention blood. She has also never attempted to describe the type of boat(s).
Being in very bloody water (which she now says because so many have questioned why she wasn’t covered with blood), would make it impossible for her only to have only a tiny “speck” or “smear,” as Sheriff Sigi says!
Where are the test results?
If the scene occurred the way SHE SAYS it did, it is a veritable treasure trove for physical evidence collection.
Ok I am gonna say it. Did the traffic stop make them a target or spook them?
B
@ Mermaid14 says:
When I watch that National Geo program again I will have to listen for TH talking about ‘God’s message to her’ because I don’t recall hearing her talk about that last night..
@ isfahan
As I recall from most of TH’s interviews when she was asked to describe the attackers and/or their boats she said ‘I was concentrating on the guns’ & couldn’t clearly I.D the perps.. (paraphrasing)
Tiffany is blonde. If she in fact had the kind of physical contact with her mortally wounded husband as she has described, she would not only have blood evidence on her vest, and swimsuit, but it probably would have been absorbed into her hair and it would have been quite visible. Must not have been a drop because it wasn’t even mentioned.
@Nana2,
The “Godspeak” by TH is for a targeted audience, I am sure, lol. Since Border Wars is probably from a LE perspective,she knows it’s lost on them.
I would love to see a reenactment of her story. I’d like to see what someone would look like after they jumped in bloody water to save their husband.
If the rumors are true that they went out on the lake on just the one jetski, why would they do this? What would be the rationale for going together on one?
Blink, great point. I believe they were spooked. They now knew the cops were watching them, yet they had to make the exchange w/ the cartel. David makes the deal & then takes off figuring the police would nab him if he didn’t. I believe he & TH planned for this scenario in the past; they just weren’t sure when/if they’d have to enact it. Then, the police stop. Put plan in motion. Bye bye David. Hello Savior Tiff.
@isfahan – if I were going to quote all the posts about the life vest, I would have to go back and review the 800+ posts myself. I just don’t have time…sorry! Anyone want to throw out what they remember about the posts on the life vest, the type, and the fact that DH’s vest would have rolled him over? I do remember it being said that he had on the very best type of vest you can buy. Yes I totally agree with you it’s hinky that Tiffany says she had to flip him over. But what ISN’T hinky about her whole story? We’ve all punched about 100 holes in her story(ies) already. If you have time, it’s really worth going back and reading from the beginning and watching her various videos online.
@zinnea – among other things, we have surmised here that TH and DH might have gotten on one ski so one could drive and the other could take pictures, or hand-off something to someone, or maybe just to look less suspicious. Or, in the theory that TH was in on this with someone else, it could have been easier to shoot David if he was on the back of TH’s ski and she deliberately slowed down (on his own ski he might have gotten away). IDK I go back and forth – he’s alive and hiding, he’s dead, etc. She sure never has ACTED as if he’s dead, but her demeanor DOES fit someone who knows DH IS NOT really dead.
@Blink – thank you for putting the traffic stop scenario into words. I was trying to grasp how, if this was some kind of plan, that they would go through with it after being pulled over because that would make most people very paranoid. I guess the answer might be, they felt that HAD TO go through with it after that.
@ Mermaid14 says:
November 18, 2010 at 3:22 pm
@Nana2,
The “Godspeak” by TH is for a targeted audience, I am sure, lol. Since Border Wars is probably from a LE perspective,she knows it’s lost on them.
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I understand what you are saying however, this Nat Geo ‘Murder on the Lake’ show had a lot of TH interviews incorporated into it & a lot of TH talking & describing the incident.. AT times the show is almost a narrative by TH..
You would have to watch it to understand how it was presented..
Blink said Oct 8th:
He had a Class 1 PFD. Best they make.
B
More from Blink:
The investigative snafus in this case are going to trump contemporary high profile cases of the past, no doubt.
WHY are his parents not demanding the US open a missing persons investigation- here is a thought-
maybe he was picked up by a kind samaritan and taken to a TX hospital?
Pretty unlikely, but hello…
The evidence available to investigators, which is DIRECT and PHYSICAL, belies the account of the surviving DIRECT witness. What the Hell is wrong here?
B
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I just want to know if this is being investigated by LE. As stagnant the Kyron case is I have great hopes that they will find him eventually and that LE is investigating and the crime will be unraveled and the bad people involved will go to jail….the Hartley case drives me crazy just wondering if LE is investigating. Do David’s parents or Tiffany have to file a missing persons report in order for LE to investigate? With people like you, Peter,Dr. Lillian Glass, Pat Brown and others writing about this…It just seems that someone in MSM would start investigating…Why isn’t Anderson Cooper out on that lake the way he would be if it was the middle of a hurricane! (joke… long tiring day)
lizzygoat says:
November 18, 2010 at 12:13 am
S.H.,
I have no idea the legalities about the donations…but burn girl comes to mind
—————
lizzgoat,
The “burn girl” was ordered to pay back 29,000. That is almost 30,000.
Thank-you, for bring up her. If money is taken dishonestly, TH can
be held accountible,too.
“Burn girl” took her parents out to dinners, with her donations,etc. Good detective work caught her.
Catching, TH, may take a little longer. The Law will nail her, this is a hairy situation, because no one can prove if DH is dead or alive.
lizzygoat says:
November 18, 2010 at 12:13 am
S.H.,
snip…
As far as the family…they have always confounded me. I think it is just a family with absolutely no moral foundation. I think they really don’t know how to critically think or switch gears. No one in that family has imagination or the ability to step in another persons shoes or see through anothers eyes.I don’t think that the parents have any clue about right and wrong. Tiffany and David getting married was birds of a feather flocking together even though she thought her family above his.
——–
lizzygoat,
The family’s appear to be BACKWARD. They are not worldly, or very gutsy people. She could get away with anything, with her gene pool.
ChiaPet517 says:
November 18, 2010 at 7:26 pm
@isfahan – if I were going to quote all the posts about the life vest, I would have to go back and review the 800+ posts myself. I just don’t have time…sorry! Anyone want to throw out what they remember about the posts on the life vest, the type, and the fact that DH’s vest would have rolled him over? I do remember it being said that he had on the very best type of vest you can buy. Yes I totally agree with you it’s hinky that Tiffany says she had to flip him over. But what ISN’T hinky about her whole story? We’ve all punched about 100 holes in her story(ies) already. If you have time, it’s really worth going back and reading from the beginning and watching her various videos online.
——————————————————————-
You are right it’s all been totally hinky from day one and I have been watching video interviews, all along. I kept waiting, every time Tiff did an interview, for MSM to slam her with questions.
As we know the opposite occurred. I still can’t believe the extent they went to non-question and “praise” her. Don’t know if I have seen every single one, but remember in the dozens I’ve seen, nothing about that vest. There has been a lot of speculation about that vest, what he was wearing that day, but here is the first place I have seen the type ID’d. I will take the time to go back, if no one remembers how the type, PFD 1, was known.
@ S.H. says:
re:
The family’s appear to be BACKWARD. They are not worldly, or very gutsy people. She could get away with anything, with her gene pool.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ouch to that statement & I’m not sure what is meant by it..
Many, many, many intelligent individuals from extremely wealthy & intelligent families have gone the TH route & the name Tom Capano (Thomas J Capano) comes to mind quite quickly.. Capano a prominent & wealthy attorney thought he had it made with the ‘no body no crime’ theory until a sharp prosecutor dug his heels in on the case..
@ Blink “If the scene occurred the way SHE SAYS it did, it is a veritable treasure trove for physical evidence collection.”
——
It certainly is. But who’s going to release those results? Sigi is in control and he’s not talking about it, or releasing anything.
——
Ok I am gonna say it. Did the traffic stop make them a target or spook them?
B
——
I don’t think “they” were a target. I do think DH was. If TH had been a target, she would be dead, even if you don’t believe one confabulation of hers. IMO.
I just think the traffic stop is very strange, “very coincidental.” Funny they just happened to release it to “prove” Sigi’s alleged belief of Tiff’s “story(ies).” Funny, too, a big deal was made about them not getting ticketed and the marijuana trucks. A lot of people just get warnings on first stops. If they got ticket or not, who cares, unless the time is wrong!!!
Why did they make the non-ticketing such a big deal? Small point, I know. But added with everything else, it’s just another part of this doesn’t add up. Nothing has added up from the first day. Nothing.
It seems odd too, that the trailer would have expired plates, but apprarently the truck did not.
The reason for not ticketing them. Doesn’t feel right and never did.
ok, how about this.. maybe Tiff and hubby went over there to complete his business with the pirates/little zeta guys but Tiff was only the look out and hiding somewhere. That would explain why she didn’t have a scratch on her or the jet ski. Maybe they didn’t even see her until she ran.
Maybe the pirates/little zeta guys got pissed off because David told them he couldn’t work for them anymore because he was moving to Co and he knew too much.
*I reserve the right to change my mind about this scenario at any given time without notice. LOL
I’m sure S.H. was just posting emotional. I’ve been guilty of that. I know of well to do families that are very concerned raising their children to be good helpful citizens. Then again I worked in a department store for many years and there is nothing more annoying than children from well to do families who think it is their God given right to shoplift then call their parents who show up defending their criminal children.
One of my old co-worker’s husband is a principal in Fairfax County, VA which has a lot of rich people. (BMW’S are a common 16th birthday gift.) She relayed a story about two students who beat up a mentally challenged student. Her husband called in the parents and one of the parents started shouting at him How dare you interrupt a million dollar deal for this!
There are good citizens and bad on either side of the spectrum. In farm/ranch/blue collar not considered worldly the families to me more often still teach good values and common sense to their children. But then again there are pockets of bad bad people (Deliverance). What I see in David and Tiffany’s parents is the in between generation…the generation who lacking a clear definition of right and wrong of morals thus producing a bad bad generation. The children, seem to be the ones who define the direction of the parents morals and likely this did not happen overnight. I wonder if these parents were the type to be “friends” rather than parents with David and Tiffany and of course the siblings….they seem morally lost too. The community they surround themselves with is morally lost. And of course what concerns me is that the LE in the United States so far as I am aware is morally lost. I hope that Lee is correct that this is being investigated by the Feds… but have seen nothing.
I’m not sure I agree with how investigations are handled with a high level of secrecy. In the end maybe someone is caught but in the meantime thousands of people have learned not to question. I would rather see the MSM reporting this with a critical eye and the LE openly investigating this even at the risk of Tiffany staying free. In my opinion it is the only way to teach people to think critically. As it is maybe a year or two down the road the case will break or not but by then for those who have a problem discerning right from wrong will have the wrong idea stuck in their head for way too long and will most likely not be able to change their mindset. To use Blink’s words tunnel vision sets in. Many people once they get tunnel vision they can’t get rid of it.
Even though the LE doesn’t release a lot in the Kyron case we see their presence and it is a lesson just by their actions. In the Hartley case there is nothing except for those of us who seek out the truth outside MSM. It is a terrible thing for a certain segment of the population not to see Tiffany and David’s story openly investigated. How many days have gone by with the Mexican government being openly vilified…that is serious damage that will not be undone in the same amount of time. This does not and will not help the legitimate issues we do have on the border.
I’ll be here all day if I think about the politicians….
I also posted this on Peter’s blog
Here is the place to write to have an impact with National Geographic. The magazine is what has the prestige…and what people and foundations most often donate to. Let them know their once good name has been tarnished.
National Geographic Magazine
Send a letter to the Editor about the content of National Geographic magazine. Letters will be considered for the monthly Forum column.
ngsforum@nationalgeographic.com
lizzygoat says:
November 18, 2010 at 12:13 am
S.H.,
I have no idea the legalities about the donations…but burn girl comes to
—————
lizzygoat,
I wanted to follow-up on burn girl.
It took hundreds of hours of good detective work to nail burn girl. This makes me so ticked-off, how she drained a little police department of resources, because of
her imaturity.
——–
snip…
Vancouver police chief Clifford Cook said Bethany Storro admitted under police questioning to fabricating a story about the attack, in which she suffered severe burns. snip
Schuman said the alleged attack and the probe stretched the resources of Vancouver’s small police department.
“It’s been hundreds of hours,” Schuman said about the time invested in the investigation. “It really took a toll on the department and the resources that we have.”
Cook said any decision to charge Storro with a crime would be left to the Clark County Prosecuting Attorney’s Office. Clark County Senior Deputy Prosecutor John Fairgrieve did not immediately return a call from The Associated Press seeking comment Thursday.
“She is extremely upset,” Schuman said. “In many ways, this got bigger than she expected.”
http://www.wkrg.com/national/article/cops-acid-attack-a-self-inflicted-hoax/932546/Sep-17-2010_7-43-am/
Blink,
The “spooked” idea, is worth thinking about. Your theory may make sense, why her story is so half-baked.
So could David in Wyoming?
Wyoming is on the FB creators, intelius, along with her husband,
who DH worked with.