Murder In Mexico: Tiffany Hartley Endures 16 Hours Of Interviews In David Hartley Death
..” I have nothing to hide. I Have ABSOLUTELY nothing to hide..”
Tiffany Hartley emerged on CNN’s Anderson Cooper 360 yesterday after her 16th hour of interviews at the Mexican Consulate in McAllen, Texas.
Hartley recounted the events of September 30, ending with the alleged murder of her husband David. Ms. Hartley gave both new testimony and confirmed her previous statements according to reports from the Mexican Attorney General and Ms. Hartley herself, without the presence of an attorney.
According to several statements from Hartley, David was shot “off his jet ski” while the couple was returning from the Mexican side of Falcon Lake, where they briefly took pictures of the historic church on Old Guerrerro. Neither David Hartley nor his Sea Doo watercraft have been recovered.
One of the most baffling aspect of the case, is the fact that Ms. Hartley claims the pair were shot at at as they were driving their jet skis away from alleged “pirates” they both waved a friendly hello to, seconds before. Tiffany Hartley was uninjured in the attack, and her jet ski was not hit in the gunfire. Although media was alerted last week that tests on a possible blood source on Tiffany’s life vest were due back that afternoon, we were quickly told there would be no updates about the possible blood evidence at this time.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime Editor spoke with Chuck Smith, owner Smith Marina USA about specifics of the Sea Doo RXT.
..Your correct, the RXT has a chip in the starter that is electronically programmed to “match” the owners lanyard key. If he was wearing the lanyard, whether attached to his vest, or in some cases the arm, and he was thrown off the ski, it activates a kill switch and will not start without the key it is programmed to without a factory reprogramming, which of course, one would need the paperwork for. In short, no matter what, they would need his key to start it.
Blink Question: What if he was not attached to the key, and he was shot and flew off the unit “in motion”, this would not shut the engine off, correct?
CS: Correct. The ski would continue in the direction the handlebars were pointing and continue to throttle in that direction.
Blink: How hard are these models to sink?
CS: Virtually impossible. I have never actually heard of, or seen one, sink to the bottom. The way the Coast Guard standards are now with these, they have hulls similar to boats.
Blink: Could enough bullet holes sink it? What about if the contiuum– could that have caused it to flip? Could anyone right it?
CS: No, not unless we are talking morter rounds. I guess in theory an automatic weapon could put enough holes cut it in half if that was the goal, but again, your still going to see shards of fiberglass all over the water, remnants similar to a boat accident or crash. Again, under these circumstances, I don’t see how he could flip it, but if it were, again, harder to see because the bottom is black, but any SAR or Coast Guard deployment knows what abnormalities to look for on the water surface. It would be next to impossible to “right it” in deep water. It would be more likely they would drag it to shallow water.
Blink: Is this chop-shoppable?
CS: Absolutely. There is some after factory devices, similar to lo jack, but the engine and parts are expensive and could easily be sold that way.
Blink: He was wearing a PFD I. In your opinion is that keeping him afloat until he is located if he was left in the water?
CS: Absolutely, unless it was removed, or he and the vest were removed from the water, he would be floating, yes.
As announced this morning on Dana Pretzer commentary, Blink, Editor In Chief of blinkoncrime.com will be discussing the Hartley case this evening live at 9PM EST on Scared Monkeys The Dana Pretzer Show.
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So sorry, I hit the “submit” button before I was finished….Please read this article and see how deeply ingrained the corruption is.
http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2010/10/threat-grows-as-mexican-cartels-move-to.html
I see every reason in the world why TH would NOT go to Mexico to be questioned and every reason in the world why she should NOT be within their reach…whoever they are…possibly the federales, possibly the cartels…they are one and the same in many instances. Many have questioned why the local sheriff was called…I don’t….living in rural Texas, you would get it….Border patrol and DPS were on site, as well as the game warden. If you have lived out here, you know when the game warden shows up, its serious business. These are 1st responders out here….no question about it.
When they find the Jet-ski he was riding, or a body, I might be more inclined to jump on the Tiff-did-it-bandwagon….there is no end to the resources the cartels have….they may never find either.
crimesolver says:
October 25, 2010 at 11:55 am
*****************Pondering…tossing my thoughts around to be solved.
*Maybe she KNOWS there is NO evidence to be found? (if DH alive)
I believe he is alive.)
++++++++++++
Crimestopper,
If you were David, WHERE would you travel? South America? A Cave?
There just has to be more people, involved in this mess, one way or another.
Do you feel that David is calling the shots, so to speak?
——————
The Mexican LE, should play a trick on Tiffany:
Wait until, Tiffany, appears on a live talk show, then, LE should release “breaking news”, a body is found (behind the church in the brush)-They request, Mrs Hartley, come immediately to Mexican, to ID the body.
We want to see TH reaction! This may be the ONLY way to find out if
DH is dead or alive, is to play on trick on her.
re my 35. Post:
These times are just heresay because they are only given by Tiffany in various interviews, however the 11:30 traffic stop is true and accurate per dashcam in troopers vehicle. If the 911 call can be verified as being at 2:30 then the news reports of the attack happening between 2:30 and 2:45 would be proved incorrect! I also wonder if the couple went to subway before or after
the 11:30 traffic stop.
Where is Barbra Walters when you need her? I say have Tiffany interviewed by her and see what happens… or Chris Matthews…
60 minutes… Next, Tiffany will get a free trip to Disneyworld.
I was wondering if the conversations would go this way. The insurance scam idea came to my mind too. But, I have to say, if this is purely innocent, how very sad.
2.S.H. says:
October 25, 2010 at 2:07 pm
“The Mexican LE, should play a trick on Tiffany”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Excellent!
************************************************
If you were David, WHERE would you travel? South America? A Cave?
There just has to be more people, involved in this mess, one way or another. Do you feel that David is calling the shots, so to speak?
************************************************
Travel? Wrong person to ask, haven’t ever traveled out of the US.
Who is calling the shots? I just don’t know…I have just been throwing random thoughts out. Love mysteries, puzzles and etc. Thought I do keep asking myself, “why are you so OBSESSED with this story?” Arrggh! ANSWER? Because I know a liar when I see one.
My father used to lie to us/family all the time. It got to where we never believed anything he said, and we’d read between the lines to try to figure out what his “point” was…or what was he covering up? (what was the real story). So I find myself doing the same thing with statements that come from TH. (Or anyone who is “hinky” for that matter.)
Christy says:
October 25, 2010 at 12:38 pm
TimeLine of event’s reported in media:
David and Tiffany have lunch at subway- time unknown
11:30 a.m.- David and Tiffany pulled over by DPS troopers in Rio Grande City
2:30 p.m.- Attack occured on David and Tiffany
2:45 p.m.- Tiffany tell’s good Samaritan her husband was shot in the head by pirate’s.
I can not find anywhere the time the 911 call was made!
———————
Christy, Thank-you!
They ate at Subway, supposedly, I will try to nail down the time.
S.H Ketchup?! – Hey -you’re right- we don’t know what that microscopic stain could be- for all we know it is fish blood- Meatball sauce- or an escaped booger…
GraceInTheHills-
That quote bugs me because HEEELOOO If anyone should have “woke up” to what was going on in their own back yard it was The Hartley’s themselves.- There were dangers that they were aware of and still, They crossed INTO MEXICO- without precautions and after living and escaping the violence in Reynosa.
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_16418855
-snip-
President Barack Obama.”He should wake up and look at what’s going on in our backyard,”
—
Another thing that bothers me about that articles reporting is the reporters failure to point out that The Hartley’s were IN Mexico- No mention of “pirates” no mention of must have photographic history shots, no mention of previous warnings- they make it sound as if The Hartley’s were merely out on their jet skies for a day of fun on the lake- and Wham! those pesky pirates, ummm teens, uuummm Mexicans drug runners, uuum baby gang members, uuumm unknown assailants…. Yeah that’s the ticket- they snuck into America and the rest is history…
Snipped:
Her husband, David Hartley, was shot by unknown assailants on Sept. 30 while the two were riding WaveRunners on Falcon Reservoir, which is on the border between the U.S. and Mexico. Neither he nor his watercraft have been recovered.
Lots of great thinking happening here…
Intrigued- hi, thanks for that info
nana2 – that is an interesting thought.
Zinnia -I agree and very well said.
Hello SouthernMom-
Like I’ve written before, I do not “Believe” anything in this case- IMO There isn’t enough evidence to support or eliminate any scenario- but I’ll try to answer your question.
Many people who have committed horrible crimes seek out the attention of the media- some seem to be unable to STOP talking to the media. Others not only seek out attention but often times insert themselves further into the story-
Examples-
Take The Diane Downs Story the 1983 She shot all three of her children- paralyzing 2 killing 1 and blamed – she couldn’t stop giving interviews.
abcnews.go.com/2020/diane-downs-mother-shoots-children/..
Or The murder of Missy Avila- whose killer went so far as to befriend the victims mother- live in her house, and manipulate her into giving false ‘tips to the police-
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michele_Yvette_Avila
oops sorry about the typos SouthernMom & all -my key board is on the fritz-
That should have read Diane Downs blamed a straggly stranger- it happened in 1983.
“Remember, I am basing my opinion on the testimony of the only known eye witness in this case.
I dont care how efficient they may be at cleaning a crime scene. The bulk of the crime scene ( Tiffany) who alleges she handled a mortally wounded man after fleeing from gunfire which she managed to completely evade, does not so far, have a cell out of place. I do not buy it.
B”
Well frankly, I’m not too sure how much evidence one could find in a body of water. The same water that could have easily washed fresh blood off of someone or something.
As to that “mystery witness” who claimed to have seen Tiffany being chased by those boats….early on it was said in the news in Zapata that it was a prominent/wealthy resident of Zapata who didn’t want his identity revealed. I’m sure he didn’t want his identity revealed because he’d then become a target of the Zetas for being a witness and or possibly kidnapped and held for ransom because of his wealth. The man has probably been in hiding somewhere ever since. And it would not surprise me if there were others who saw what happened and are too afraid to say something. Perhaps you should look into the characteristics and ethnicity of the people who actually live in Zapata to understand why they would be afraid.
All of these speculations about what happened as far as Tiffany was involved can only mean one thing….she had assistance from the Zetas. I just do not believe that could be possible. She certainly is not someone who has anything that the Zetas would be interested in.
I can just visualize the Zetas sitting around and laughing about that idea.
I fear you are not “present” in this conversation or are impervious to logic..
I am not specifically speaking of what could be found in the water, what about on Tiffany and the jet ski?
What about the fact that allegedly search teams were dispatched from the US side?
There is no way to calibrate probabilities in this investigation without a timeline from Siggi, and whomever else was involved. An SAR report from Sept 30th- Oct 5 needs to be released.
B
If David is deceased, he would want justice,right? I understand
she said this awhile ago, a chilling statement.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Tiffany Hartley – ““Honestly, I don’t even care to have justice right now”
By PMC Border News, Crime & Punishment, Media & Press, Mexico Today
http://immigrationclearinghouse.org/tiffany-hartley-%E2%80%9Chonestly-i-dont-even-care-to-have-justice-right-now/
If TH didn’t change her story so much between interviews we wouldn’t be wondering wth the truth is! Two things she has changed that just don’t change when you’re telling the whole truth:
1.) DH was shot in the head and she could see his brains falling out. Then all of a sudden he got shot in the neck! What? Someone please help me to see how this changes.
2.) TH says she turned around to go take care of her husband but two pirates went after her jet ski. One pirate held a gun to her head. Once he left she tried to pull her husbands body onto her jetski but she didn’t have the strength. Fine but this contrdict’s what TH told JVM. She told the witness she made an agonizing decision. She left her husband behind b/c she could see a pirate charging toward’s her.
Now if the pirate had a gun to you’re head and decided to just leave all of a sudden, why then would they be charging you! You can’t have it both ways.
Christy says:
October 25, 2010 at 12:38 pm
TimeLine of event’s reported in media:
David and Tiffany have lunch at subway- time unknown
11:30 a.m.- David and Tiffany pulled over by DPS troopers in Rio Grande City
2:30 p.m.- Attack occured on David and Tiffany
2:45 p.m.- Tiffany tell’s good Samaritan her husband was shot in the head by pirate’s.
————————-
The comment (below) is not mind, lifted it from the link, below it.
They were stopped for “a half hour” if my memory serves me correctly, then ate at Subway’s.
I am trying to figure out how they got rid of DH, if she showed up with the unvertified man, at the Launch. We do not know if a man existed, only a poster told us what he could.
******************
She was stopped in Rio Grande City 3 hours before the call. It takes 45 minutes to an hour to get there. Now she says there were eating at Subway. That was another 1/2 hour. OK…that leaves 1 1/2 to park, get jet skis and go to site see and then claim the attack. NO WAY!
http://immigrationclearinghouse.org/tiffany-hartley-%E2%80%9Chonestly-i-dont-even-care-to-have-justice-right-now/
more humor…
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/7263340.html
(Tiffany Hartley)
“Ultimately, this is bigger than just David. His death will not be in vain because I will continue to do what I can to secure our border,” she said. [snip]
What is she going to do? LOL. She needs to put a Burrito in her mouth.
SH-
respectfully, that is inappropriate.
B
@Connie – YES! Why can’t we get a really snoopy, suspicious newsperson in on this to question Tiffany? Anderson Cooper did blow it by not questioning Tiffany when she said there were a 3rd and 4th person in the boat but she didn’t see them. (???)
@Mom3.0 – Agreed! I like the devil’s advocate. It makes people think. That’s how a lot of good thoughts come out here. And yes, sometimes I can’t resist a good snark or two myself.
@SouthernMom says – “For those that believe DH is alive and in hiding…as part of a “scam” or other reasons, I would like to know more about your theories. I can’t believe TH would welcome and encourage so much media attention continuously from DAY ONE if this were a possibility. She certainly could have stopped this, saying it was too hard, too sad, asking to be left alone to grieve, etc. She wouldn’t be garnering and creating world wide media attention “splashing” pics of DH all over the airwaves and internet if he were alive and could be identified/found. MOO”
______________________________
Respectfully, I believe the reason Tiffany does the non-stop media thing is quite simple – because she wants to distract everyone from what is really going on. The latest distraction is insulting the President, so everyone will be up in arms about that. Another smokescreen. I don’t buy it. And she continues her platform of making this a border issue so no one can stop and realize her story has too many discrepancies and improbabilities, and just doesn’t make sense to some of us “logicals.” Again, SHE WAS IN ANOTHER COUNTRY WHEN THIS HAPPENED. NOT THE U.S. Even if it’s just a lake that divides the two, another country is another country. Since when did the U.S. start guaranteeing the safety of its citizens when they’re in another country? It’s just not possible. Every U.S. citizen who travels outside the U.S. does so at their own risk.
IMOO IF she and David planned this for, say, insurance money or fame money and he’s hiding somewhere, she KNEW she would have to face the media repeatedly, whether she really wanted to or not. Avoiding them would have actually brought on MORE suspicion than facing them head on. You said so yourself in your comment – Tiffany COULD HAVE stopped all this media stuff by saying it was too hard, etc., so why did’t she? Because it ISN’T too hard. One posting I read somewhere made the most sense (PP) – Two reasons why Tiffany doesn’t look like she’s grieving: 1) She wanted David dead 2) He is not dead. If Tiffany really loved him and really DID see anything horrible happen to him, she would have a permanent look of horror on her face. She doesn’t. She never did.
And AGAIN, any innocent person would have been BEGGING for a lie detector test the moment any doubt set in, so people would believe the story and respond. Don’t you think it’s just a little odd that she hasn’t done that? Also as far as David’s picture being splashed everywhere, people change their identities and disguise themselves every day, very successfully, for long periods of time. Why would David do this? Because he was in a general labor-type job with not a lot of education. His company was cutting back and he had been instructed to move back to Colorado for his job. He had apparently been living quite the life in Mexico and maybe he felt he had reached a dead-end and didn’t want to go back to Colorado to work and live out what he saw as a dull life.
Hey, I personally don’t think Tiffany did anything to David herself, nor do I think she saw something happen to him. I don’t even think it was a deal gone bad where she deserted him (again, no grief, no fear). I tend to lean toward Number 2 above for the simple reason that there’s NOT ONE SHRED of evidence on David. And there’s no logical reason why the cartel would shoot him in the first place, NOT shoot her, and then go to so much trouble to get rid of every trace of him. If you’re a bunch of evil pirates who don’t value life, then why bother to get rid of David (hide the evidence) when a witness just SAW YOU kill him and could possibly describe you to LE, and you allowed that witness to just jetski away, when you were close enough to her to easily shoot her also? That makes absolutely no sense. And if they come back and say the blood “speck” on the life vest is his, how easy would it have been for David himself to put a speck there, conveniently high enough on the vest that it didn’t get washed off when Tiffany was in the water with him? (I wonder if they can tell how OLD a blood sample is?)
If Tiffany IS telling the truth, I’ll be the first one to jump in here and apologize to her for my doubts. But she certainly hasn’t helped make herself believable by either her actions or her words… All MOO
Ok, finally got to hear the DP radio show starring Blink! Good Show, Blink! As always, you are fascinating to listen to and your dedication to crime solving is just unquestioned! You cover all the angles and ask the difficult questions that nobody else does! A million kudos!
Extradition:
Similar…Andrew Luster was a fugitive from the US hiding in Mexico. Luster’s whereabouts were unknown to Mexican officials. Dog the Bounty Hunter apprehended Luster as you probably remember and he is now in prison where he belongs! Then Dog ran into his own extradition issues since Bounty Hunting is illegal in Mexico.
Bruce Beresford-Redman has an arrest warrant from Mexico and continues to avoid arrest by remaining in the U.S. (the murder occurred in Mexico). He is living in his own home and not really hiding from anyone, there’s plenty of video showing him out playing with his kids, etc. So far his lawyers have managed to avoid extradition to Mexico.
Jettx & Southern Mom…do you have an agenda for reading/replying to our comments on this site? I don’t really understand what “the payoff is” in disagreeing with the majority of the blink readers? Don’t get me wrong…you are entitled to your own opinion, it just seems you are outnumbered here. Just saying.
Jettx & Southern Mom…SORRY, I’m a grouch today. My comments were rude and I apologize. Will ya forgive me?
JetTx: Many have questioned why the local sheriff was called…I don’t….living in rural Texas, you would get it….Border patrol and DPS were on site, as well as the game warden. If you have lived out here, you know when the game warden shows up, its serious business.
JetTx, I do live in West Texas, less than 2 miles from the border, just off of Lake Amistad. Trust me, everywhere except for the lake, yes, the Sheriff is contacted, but when it’s on the Lake—the Sheriff has no jurisdiction at all. Falcon Lake is Federal Property; any crime committed on the lake itself is handled by the Federal Law Enforcement (Park Service, Border Patrol, ICE, DEA, and ATF).
nana2 says:
October 25, 2010 at 1:05 pm
@ S.H. says:
October 25, 2010 at 5:11 am
The Timeline?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I believe one of Blink’s readers/contributors was kind enough to post a time line in the prior Hartley article..
++++++++++++++
Thank-you for your kindness, too, Nana2. I will read.
===============================================================
O.T.
Is there a Subway “video” of DH & TH eating lunch or picking up food
at the restaurant?
I question the B.P. claim (seeing them) at Subway. I wonder if they are Amigo’s?
They were border agents. It is legit.
B
Good for me, I just figured out how to copy and paste a quote…from seamusoriley.blogspot.com:
She said she had met Mr Flores, and that he seemed to be working hard to find her husband. She added: ‘I can’t even explain how my heart is just broken for him and his family. There aren’t any words.”
Well if her husband has been killed by drug cartel pirates and an investigating officer has been beheaded, should she not be a little worried for herself? Every once in a while I wonder if she just has a low IQ, but hey–wouldn’t her family be concerned for her safety?? After all, she did see their faces close enough to read their expressions–as in ‘what are we going to do with her?’ Pffft…self-absorbed girl. Like they thought she was too cute, petite, pretty and innocent to shoot after she witnessed them killing her husband? Yea right. That would be typical drug cartel behavior.
Between her FB comments, her released photos (how many different poses of a couple in tropical locations can one have??)and her ridiculous self-absorbed story you can tell she is all about how others perceive her. Which is maybe why she did not plan on the scrutiny she is getting now. MMMMMMoo and meow.
@S.H. says:
October 24, 2010 at 4:57 pm
Sunday, October 24, 2010
Hartley Seeks To Limit Mexican Access
http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/
[snip]
Tiffany Hartley’s self importance will likely be her undoing. As she has elevated her husband’s murder to a story of national importance, she now believes that it is a “turning point” for drug violence in America.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I believe that Tiffany Hartley is extremely competent and educated when it comes to addressing the multi-faceted social issue of drugs in America -she appears to be VERY well versed in the all of the many socio-economic factors associated with this widespread problem. I am impressed with the depth of her thinking. This detailed knowledge and insight came through loud and clear when she said,
http://www.themonitor.com/video/?videoId=632381756001&play=now
12:25 ”Quit buying. Quit buying it. I mean, why? I’ve never done drugs in my life and neither did David, but, you know, I’ve …what is it purposing in your life, is kinda how I feel. You know, I never saw the purpose in doing drugs. I never saw the benefit of it. Um, so if we quit buying it then we won’t have as much issues here in United Sates with our Mexican border.
I’m not 100 % positive- but I believe that even if blood was “washed away” in the water, there are tests that they could perform. In researching the Casey Anthony case I became aware of a newer way to find traces of blood- better than luminol. It can even find old blood or blood that has been diluted or washed away with detergent or bleach ect, Here is the link:
http://www.bluestar-forensic.com/gb/bluestar.php
I wonder what the test will reveal on the life vest? Again, why oh why didnt they take Tiffany’s clothes the jet ski…or test for gun shot residue?
The results of these tests would have cleared up so many questions.
If these things weren’t done, IMO LE not only did a disservice to themselves but to Tiffany and the public as well.
They were border agents. It is legit.
B
********
Do Border agents ride in vehicles that say they’re border agents? I’m just wondering if T and D saw the police car at Subway and went in there just to get another witness.
“Respectfully, there is little-r evidence that Mr. Hartley is even deceased.
B”
++++++
Respectfully, to the best of my knowledge, there is NO [physical]evidence that David is deceased.
Legal question…Is ‘eyewitness testimony’ considered to be, “evidence?”
Circumstantial, yes.
B
@crimesolver – all is forgiven..but, I didn’t take offense in the first place.
I am guilty of seeing the good in a person before the bad.
I am intrigued by Blink’s sites and it’s contributors. I respect everyone’s opinions. I don’t try to convince others to believe as I do. I know something is way off with TH’s story, I just can’t reconcile all the pieces to say she is guilty of murder and/or making it all up to cover up David’s “alive & hiding”.
It took just over 3 wks for the sh*t to hit the fan in the Kyron Horman case…waiting to see what happens here. The fact DH’s family are embracing her and standing beside and behind her speak volumes to me. And…quite honestly, many many respectable journalists and LE are as well…so, I’m waiting to see what happens.
Prayers for the Hartley family.
IF TH was in the water and IF DH was bleeding and in the water, wouldn’t her vest have (invisible to the naked eye) traces of blood all over it instead of 1 microscopic speck of blood? I understand the vest was waterproof but wouldn’t “things” still be able to cling to it?
Ugh nevermind, sorry, I should have read the last few posts before jumping down the page to comment. You can delete my prior post since Mom3.0 said the same thing only much more eloquently than I. Thanks.
S.H., Christy and others… I am the elusive poster who has attempted to create a timeline, HOWEVER, we have VERY FEW data points to work with. Below is what I have at this point… xx:00 time indicate we do not know the actual time, but we know that it “happened” -ie. we know they did this or that as a matter of logic, but we don’t know at what time…If anyone can fill in the blanks, then great. However it is my hunch that the information is guarded at this time.
9:00am: TYH says they decided at that time to go to Falcon Lake for the day.
10:30am: Since McAllen to Rio Grande City = 41 miles, 47 minutes, coupled with possible slower timing due to towing jet skis, they must have left at about that time.
11:30am-11:40am: DPS stop in Rio Grande City
12:45pm: -rough estimate of when they would have arrived in Zapata (Rio Grande City to Zapata 53 miles, 57 minutes.)
** We do not know if they lunched at Subway in RGC or Zapata, so this timeline reflects eating in Zapata, before launching skis**
Xx:xxpm: Subway lunch –spotted by a U.S. Border Patrol agent at Subway (408 Hwy 83, Zapata TX 78076) -OR- was it 4023 E Hwy 83, Ste 110, Rio Grande City TX 78582?)
Xx:xxpm: Zapata County boat ramp: Arrive and launch jet skis: Any witnesses see them arrive/park/launch??
Xx:xxpm: Ride to Old Guerrero –at 60mph, 8 miles could have taken ~10 minutes? (They rode about one mile to the international boundary —and then headed 7 miles southeast up the Salado river to the ruins.
Xx:xxpm – Time spent at the church; according to TYH, never got on land, did not picnic –just snapped a few pictures and headed out again (5 minutes total?) She has never been specific about how long they were there
Xx:xxpm -People commented that they heard gunshots, assumed it was dove hunters??? No time indicated
Xx:xxpm -whatever happened, happened
Xx:xxpm -TYH ride back to shore ~10 minutes?
Xx:xxpm -Need the exact location/TIME of the point she returned to shore to Good Samaritan
2:30pm 911 call time: http://www.themonitor.com/articles/antonio-43258-san-falcon.html
(But then “David” on http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2010/10/does-tiffany-hartley-know-shooter.html says the call came in at 2:20pm ????)
2:45pm -“Authorities said the shooting happened about 2:45 p.m.” (Faulty report? They say it happened AFTER the 911 call????? http://www.kens5.com/news/national/104123103.html
2:35pm -Sheriff, etc. arrived at GS property –according to GS, it was 5 min. after the 911 call
Xx:xxpm -Sheriff/LE launched a search on US side.
9:00pm –Search called off http://www.themonitor.com/articles/-43245–.html
LOL Madilu! Totally agree with you Montana Mom.
@S.H.,
jk)which would take another 30 min, now it’s 12:30 (not including drive time to subway). They drive for another hour to boat launch. Now it would be 1:30, it take’s them 15 min to launch jet skis making it 1:45 when they start to go across the lake to the church which could be anywhere between 7 to 10 miles at 50 mph ( I have a jet boat and this is very fast on water esp. pwc) would take them 10-15 min. To get to the church at which point it would be 2:00, they spend 5 min. Taking pic’s( this could be why only 5 min it fit’s timeline wow!)now it’s 2:05 attack occurs and lasts for 5 min., now 2:10 and TH speeds the 7 miles back to shore taking 10-15 min. at this point it would be 2:25 and tells witness what happened and to call 911. Not sure but think 911 call was made at 2:30!
I agree with you about there not being enough time b/c I go boating every weekend in summer and it takes at least 10-15 min to back truck up, unhook, back up more, then in thier case start and back both jet skis off the trailer, then while one of them hold’s the other jet ski someone has to go and park the truck and then walk back down to ramp and get on the jet ski and then they would have been ready to go and this is if you know what you’re doing. So, they are stopped by trooper at 11:30 for 30 min, now it’s 12:00, they eat in subway(yes prolly meatball sub
If the church was indeed only 7 miles from boat ramp this timeline makes sense!
IDK but maybe now that I have literally worked through the steps in this post there might have been time for all of this to happen!
@Mom3.0 says:
October 25, 2010 at 11:28 pm
I’m not 100 % positive- but I believe that even if blood was “washed away” in the water, there are tests that they could perform.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I do believe that if you come into close contact with a profusely bleeding victim, even in fresh water, then the nylon of the vest would absorb quite a bit of the blood…even if diluted. Trace amounts would be present. You know how they say, “blood is thicker than water” -Now, not being a forensic expert -it would seem, from a logical standpoint, that the nylon would retain blood -or would it RESIST blood over water? Still, seems there would be trace amounts even if diluted with water, but in an overall diffuse manner -not just “a spot barely visible to the eye.”
But since she has given two versions: 1) something to the effect that there was blood and brains everywhere, and, 2) The fact that she on several occasions pointed to a spot in her forehead, indicating an execution-style pinpoint entry shooting, which may not produce a lot of blood instantly -but then again 3) if he were shot in the neck, then we are talking carotid artery, which gushes blood…(but actually, I do not believe she has ever SAID he was shot in the neck, I believe that this was shoddy AP reportage…and I am placing no weight on this report)
My prediction is twofold: 1) The results of the blood test will remain guarded at least until after the November 2nd elections. 2) Even IF the blood belongs to David, then it still does not prove anything…I mean, if the blood was located on the TOP of the vest, which would have been primarily above water, then it may give more weight than if it were near the bottom. And how would it be possible to have just a droplet, and not an overall pattern/presence of blood, if that makes sense.
Damn, I should have been Dexter -he would know! Ms. B- do you have access to anyone who can speak to this aspect of what may be the ONLY physical evidence that exists?? (And, btw, her jet ski is the other piece of physical evidence, but apparently, “negative” for gun shots or anything else noteworthy…since it was returned to her immediately… I am kinda getting pissed, cuz it seems that the investigation was well, a non-investigation, and they did not follow SOP for processing “crime scene.”
On another note, thought it was interesting that in the GS “unidentified male” interview that he said that immediately many agencies were on site within minutes (at his house????) to, “secure” the “crime scene.” What crime scene??? That was an interesting comment indeed. ALL this MOO, imo.
Lee,
Your M.O. here seems to be the border violence. You seem hellbent on convincing people that the border violence is at such an intensity that no one should dare question someone’s claims that their loved one was slaughtered by Mexican pirates. Some of your comments seem angry.
Angry is what I think Tiffany would be – yet she is just so lacksadaisical and unnerved. A LOT of people can’t wrap their heads around that. The sheer amount of people that get hinky feelings about this is so substantial that there HAS to be something wrong with her story. Most people state that they don’t necessarily believe she killed David or that they’re doing a death faking insurance scam thing – but that, at the very least, she is not giving the entire truth. And the fact that she’s refused to take a polygraph solidifies that.
Tiffany stated that she held onto David, and that she tried to lift him onto her ski. If she had no trace evidence on her or on her jet ski, she is lying about that. And if she is lying about that, then WHY?
And hell, if lake water can wash off all traces of blood and brain matter from Tiffany’s life vest and/or bathing suit, I’m gonna move by one just for the purposes of laundering my family’s clothes.
Someone should alert the FBI that Falcon Lake is full of stain-fighting detergents.
Christy says:
October 25, 2010 at 12:38 pm
TimeLine of event’s reported in media:
David and Tiffany have lunch at subway- time unknown
11:30 a.m.- David and Tiffany pulled over by DPS troopers in Rio Grande City
2:30 p.m.- Attack occured on David and Tiffany
2:45 p.m.- Tiffany tell’s good Samaritan her husband was shot in the head by pirate’s.
====(My estimated time schecule)+++++++
Between 1:00 pm and 2:00 pm David disappeared?
The time frame: 11:30 -12:00 stopped
12:00-12:30 – Popped up at S.W.
12:30-1:00 – food
The incident supposedly happened around 2:00?
The “unvertified” man, (that was not her husband at the beach) must have been the alibi guy – to set up the story.
We do not know if the man existed. I tend to believe the poster who, generously, told us about him.
This was premediated in all ways, shapes and forms. IMO
I am sorry I post too much. I have one more thought,if I may.
David was never shot, perhaps, poisoned, IMO. She may have put ‘something’ in his sandwich or orange drink. Perhaps, after lunch she drove the truck and picked up Alibi guy, dropped DH off on dry land, (behind the Church), and then proceded in their story.
David was not shot, this is why she can’t stick to her story.
The window of time is tight, so the job had to be tidy, nice
and neat, quick and efficient, their was never a gun, in my opinion.
@S.H.,
So if there is a unverified man at the beach, are you saying the poster said DH wasn’t there at all?
Tiffany was on The Tiday show this morning! Unbelievable!! Meridith asked her looking back what would she have done differently? I know what my answer would be, not go! This was not TH’s response, she said “get to know the local’s a little more and found out more about the area they were going to! What? I don’t understand why this woman keep’s talking! We all know they knew it was dangerous and that they even had a plan in case something went wrong. She really should quit talking because this is why nobody believe’s what she said happened
28.SouthernMom says:
October 26, 2010 at 12:18 am
@crimesolver – all is forgiven..but, I didn’t take offense in the first place.
I am guilty of seeing the good in a person before the bad.
I am intrigued by Blink’s sites and it’s contributors. I respect everyone’s opinions. I don’t try to convince others to believe as I do. I know something is way off with TH’s story, I just can’t reconcile all the pieces to say she is guilty of murder and/or making it all up to cover up David’s “alive & hiding”.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi SouthernMom: I am one of those who post on this site who do not believe Tiffany killed David, but suspect he is indeed deceased. I DO feel there should be a very thorough investigation as there would be in any missing person’s case. I suspect the FBI and other LE agencies are doing just that.
Madilu, interesting thoughts- yes, I agree. Well all I can say is SOMETHING was on the life vest so it couldn’t be totally stain repellent… I guess we will have to wait for LE’s findings…
yshouldu- Hi thanks but you said it just fine.
Well I read this am, that Colorado is supposed to get 16 inches of snow, so maybe that will keep Ms. Tiffany locked away for a while, cause Iam so sick of seeing her in interveiws. I would all together stop watching if I didnt want justice for this case so badly.
She did state that she is going to keep on talking, she had interveiws set up in New York, and somewhere else. So I guess we will have to put up with her for a while longer. I;m so sick of her, the only I want to see her now is in a orange jumpsuit, awaiting trial.
The crime happened in Texas (IMO) drugged him. Why she bolted Texas.
He was dropped off (behind the church) in the brush, to blame the M.
I think the Unvertified guy could have finished him off. IMO.
She will hook-up with this guy in Cali. I am not a phychic, just
everything is so fluid.
@S.H.
I remember reading LE had significant reason to believe GS was a nonbiased credible witness. He apparently owns property on the lake and felt he would be in danger if he came out publicly with his identity. Considering what we know about retaliations by the cartel, I can’t blame him for doing so. Of course, you are right, the possibility exists that this GS was part of the whole scheme…but, I personally don’t believe this is likely.
Prayers for the Hartley family.
28.SouthernMom says:
October 26, 2010 at 12:18 am
I am intrigued by Blink’s sites and it’s contributors. I respect everyone’s opinions. I don’t try to convince others to believe as I do. I know something is way off with TH’s story, I just can’t reconcile all the pieces to say she is guilty of murder and/or making it all up to cover up David’s “alive & hiding”.
********************************************
I can relate. Maybe we need to make a theory list & weigh/compare the deceptive statements TH has made. See how many statments tilt the scales per ALIVE or DEAD. (But w/many incon statments, it would take forever. Time that would take us away from out own families.)
Its like she is “marketing” specific comments, trying to “sell” her story to whoever she is talking to. EXAMPLE below…seems she is trying to “sell” that they were happily married. So I ponder if he is dead, and wants to lead the story away from “unhappy wife” suggestions…keywords…WANTED & TO SEE.
http://www.denverpost.com/allewis/ci_16273812
QUOTE: “We had decided to come down here because we wanted to honor David, and I wanted the family to see kind of what our day was like, in a way — to see the lake,
http://www.ksat.com/news/25470660/detail.html
QUOTE: “I wanted my parents to see where David and I came on weekends, several times a year,” said Hartley.
My gut still says he’s alive, (no Cartel involved, THOUGH I do no there is a problem in border towns..she is using that agenda.) But then I start wondering…is there no evidence because he was murdered somewhere else? Forgot about the “survivor guy” story. Maybe it gave her ideas? My gut also tells me that US LE is silently behind the scenes gathering info for a solid case. Bet they love not having to address the MSM everyday….and get a lot done!
How can I spell-check my comments before posting?
I wonder if they did a luminol test for blood on TH’s clothes, life vest, jetski, etc. They use it to determine if blood has been wiped clean from an area or if blood had been there at one time. In this case, it would tell them if there were traces of blood that could not be seen by the human eye. This is forensics 101 and if they didn’t do this test, shame on them!
HA! @WooBaby, you gave me a good chuckle this morning amidst all of this depressing stuff. You’re so right, if lake water can wash it all away, I’m there.
I’m still stuck on what a bad shot/ good shot those darn pirates were! Bullets flying all around those jetskis but not a single one actually HIT Tiffany’s, and apparently not David’s either because no fiberglass bits left behind. But ONE and only ONE shot was an accurate one…..d’oh! Sorry I’m just feelin’ SNARKY this morning!
@Intrigued:
I wish Dog would go get Beresford-Redmon and drag his butt back to Mexico for trial. They can’t get him for bounty hunting in Mexico this time because he’d be bounty hunting in California. The Mexican authorities had this man in custody for a while after the wife’s body was found. He lied to the Mexican police about the circumstances surrounding her death. There were many ear witnesses who heard loud arguing coming from their hotel room the night before.
I will never understand why the Mexican authorities let this man leave their custody and then leave the country. I believe he paid them off. There could be no other reason. Life has no value down there but $$$ sure as hell does.
http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2010/10/25/bts.tiffany.hartley.colorado.kmgh.html
Per my earlier comments about “dilated pupils.” It is worse here…and I agree with whoever posted earlier…that she is now showing signs of stress. Per giving money to Mexico, is she referring to petroleum/drilling loan from Obama? WOW.
My brother sent me this link…I SHAKE my head…cannot express my thoughts/view on this TH interview. Lordy, Lordy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY50dLc90jc