Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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Going back to December 13, 2010 at 8:53 pm
Blink says:
Where is this name search going exactly and how does it tie in?
I need that information vetted or I am not going to be able to post.
~~~
running dialogue on RS & SANCHEZ, ESTRADA ELIZABETH
Associated names:
ESTRADA, JAIME S
SANCHEZ, JAIME
several post from me did not make it out of moderation … re: “wife”?? of Jaime Sanchez Estrada brother of Rudy Sanchez POB Box in Canby and business location in Oregon City.
also … Estilo Salon was registered under the RS PO box. The shop location is Oregon City
2.beejay says:
January 16, 2011 at 4:59 pm
Anyone found a concrete link between Rudy and Ubaldo F Sanchez (of Ubaldo and Maria in Woodburn, with Elsy in the household)?
~~~
yea, the physical business address 955 S Pacific Hwy, Woodburn, OR 97071
blink – have never posted before but have been following kyrons case from the beginning. i have a thought – what if the little girl in the picture of kyron at the science fair is jaime mejia sanchez and the person in the orange (yellow?) plaid jacket is elsy mejia sanchez. since elsy knew of rudy’s infidelity with terri horman, maybe she took jaime and ubaldo AND kyron to get back at both of them. kyron may have known jaime if she ever went with dad to do “lawncare” and possibly would have gone with them without a fuss. jaime’s description in the missing website says she has a mole on her upper right cheek – maybe one of your supersleuths can tell on the science fair picture if the little girl has a mole. to me, she looks to be about the right age and size to be jaime. God bless all of you here for what you do to save and protect our children.
beejay says:
January 16, 2011 at 7:36 pm
@neighbor: TY very much. So, before/after school care is downstairs in the cafeteria. Same floor as some of those electrical exhibits. Those exhibits were, we think, where Ky headed when he went downstairs. I’ve got it now.
___________
neighbor says:
January 16, 2011 at 5:11 pm
@beejay, the before/after hours care is in the cafeteria
____________________________________________________________
We need to go where Beejay has been heading with this train of thought– that Kyron may have gone to look at “electrical exhibits”, which put him in proximity to the daycare area and the people going in and out bringing kids there.
I don’t think it’s a big stretch to imagine Kyron being hustled out of that area into a waiting vehicle, at all. Whoever took him could have simply said “come with me, I have another science exhibit in my car-it’s really cool!”. And that may be as easy as it went down. JMO
Between holidays, 2 elderly mothers & a couple of false alarms awaiting the birth of first grandchild, things have been crazy to say the least so please forgive this longish post & why I haven’t responded sooner. IRT the lime green car & why I asked… I have often berated myself for not calling the tip line 6 months ago but the odds against what I saw were so great. I was on my way home (way out in outer SE) about 2 weeks after Kyon’s disappearance when I thought I saw him with a couple that could pass for grandparents walking northbound on 162nd toward Stark. A lime green compact car (along the lines of an older Accura) was pulling a u-turn away from them but it was apparent that the driver & the couple had been engaged in some sort of conversation. After I got home & talked to my family, especially my daughter, I doubted so much that it was him I didn’t think much more about it. ( My daughter has a friend near by that has a little brother who has been mistaken for Ky on many occasions.) I started reading BOC & the memory of that “sighting” came back when I saw mention of 162nd, this is why I asked about the green car. On reading backward, I now assume that the outer SE connection is actually involving the AS-S, RS & associates factor? The couple was Caucasian. Sorry to have gotten hopes up of a new lead. This little boy needs to be found!
Has everyone who posts here climbed on board with the theory that either the LS or the suspect zero did this crime, or is it that only those who believe that, still post?
I am much more toward believing that this is closer to home, i.e. TH and no one but TH. I don’t even believe she involved her friends. I think that is where LE may have become stuck-they convinced themselves she could not have acted alone yet they can’t find any backup to show a plan that others were involved. I think that is because there wasn’t anyone else involved. I think it would be very easy to leave with Kyron, no one paying attention, and we know she had lots of time afterward.
I so agree with Blink that child SO are at bottom cowardly and sniveling plus deserve an icicle through the head or something slower. As illustrated by this perp in my local newspapaer – Eugene, OR – last Friday. Beware it is gruesome, tho nobody was killed. Our wonderful court gave this crybaby 121 years for his crime.
http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/web/news/sevendays/25771203-35/woodworth-child-judge-schwartz-david.csp
Heavy prayers and love today and always for Kyron. Dear Lord, please keep Kyron safe and warm. Return him to his loved ones. Love you little guy. I will never give up. xxooxx
18.Kimberly says:
January 16, 2011 at 8:07 pm
@ Lea Conner
snip>
Very interesting. Wonder what changed Mr. Horman’s mind about wanting the divorce done yesterday?
*********************************
Exactly! He’s been awfully quiet lately.
************
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Missing-Kyron-Horman/125336750831264#!/photo.php?fbid=182189515145987&set=a.125436494154623.14645.125336750831264
Kaine was at the sex trafficking conference in Portland. I think this speaks more than anything as to the direction we are headed. I want to cry. To me this is not quiet, it screams.
30.melissab says:
January 17, 2011 at 10:39 am
do we know who the project belongs to that the plaid shirt person might be bending over to look at? Who’s project was in that area?
~~~
that’s a good question … wonder if anyone has access to a “map” or layout of the projects that day?
To all,
I don’t post much, so I suppose I might get in trouble saying this. But I don’t see where anything is going with what is being posted. There’s nothing that folks are saying here that LE hasn’t already investigated. They know everyone associated with RS, probably alot more than we find on the web. They know what SS#’s he’s used (if any), what taxes he’s paid, what kids were born here under what names and to what wife. So what difference will it make to try and research this among us? The only thing this site (BOC) might do is provide an outlet for someone to say something that they wouldn’t say to LE. We can’t do better research than LE because we don’t have the access to the same data bases they do, so what is the point? Is it just to keep the site (BOC) going?
I know that Blink says the purpose of her site is to educate her readers. I expect that is because she has been asked “what is the purpose of her blog?”. It’s rare that an online site solves a crime– maybe a TV program does because it reaches a very wide audience and people recognize a suspect from a sketch or picture.
I don’t doubt the sincerity of any posters here. But really, as Malty once asked in her direct way, what are we doing here?
I expect that Blink herself asks this question often.
I have never once asked myself that question, and since my work is under sealed subpoena in more than one case, I would also disagree with your sentiment that this site, it’s readers, contributors and editors do not impact cases.
Just because I cannot always write about them, at least for the time being, does not mean there are not quantifiable results to this work, at the risk of sounding defensive.
If this work did not affect outcomes as opposed to just investigative journalism, I would do something else.
B
Kimberly says:
January 16, 2011 at 9:19 pm
For all who love to fish, I found this great place to buy worms.
Located right in Canby, Place just opened end of December.
Grab your worms and go!!!
*************************************************************************
So we can add “worm wrangler’s” to the list of businesses that these folks are into.
Come to think of it … wasn’t it DDS who had “worm wrangler” in her old blog?
1.puzzled says:
January 17, 2011 at 10:58 am
Just call me “Michael Jackson” cuz “I’m bad, I’m bad” … been calling the telephone #’s of the businesses. ALL go to a default generic phone # canned message. No one answers … ever.
***************************************
Lmao, that is too funny.
14.Sammy says:
January 17, 2011 at 8:56 pm
Kimberly says:
January 16, 2011 at 9:19 pm
For all who love to fish, I found this great place to buy worms.
Located right in Canby, Place just opened end of December.
Grab your worms and go!!!
*************************************************************************
So we can add “worm wrangler’s” to the list of businesses that these folks are into.
Come to think of it … wasn’t it DDS who had “worm wrangler” in her old blog?
*********************************
I do believe so,
4.puzzled says:
January 17, 2011 at 1:56 pm
Puzz, How is Rudy tied into this address?
__________________________________________
4.puzzled says:
January 17, 2011 at 1:56 pm
2.beejay says:
January 16, 2011 at 4:59 pm
Anyone found a concrete link between Rudy and Ubaldo F Sanchez (of Ubaldo and Maria in Woodburn, with Elsy in the household)?
~~~
yea, the physical business address 955 S Pacific Hwy, Woodburn, OR 97071
@Kimberly
Drove by that salon last week when I was out that way at an appointment. BTW, salon was dark, empty and not open.
~~~
hmmm … very interesting! wonder when it closed … in the last 6 months or so?
zeus says:
January 16, 2011 at 11:03 pm
I really wish I had a better memory-but I do remember something about seeing more pics posted June 4th on TH’s facebook before it was shut down. What I vaguely remember is some of Kiara and possibly some family outing pics? Was the pic of TH’s Dad on the tractor one of them? Or the ones taken at a restaurant or arcade? Help me out, whoever may also remember those other pics on June 4th!
************************************************************************************
I just checked TMH’s FB page again, and there are currently only (4) pictures that say they were posted on 6/4.
The ones you mentioned (Grampa on tractor, bowling with friend, Kiara, etc) those pix all say that they were posted on 6/1.
(The date each pic is posted is located underneath each individual photo.)
So unless I’m looking at it wrong, at one time there were (9) pics posted to TMH’s FB on 6/4.
Now there are (4) pics. (a couple are the one’s of Kyron at the Science Fair)
Just wonder what the missing (5) pix she posted to FB on 6/4 were photo’s of.
AND … were they removed by TMH or possibly LE?
This is where it “says” there were originally (9) pictures posted to TMH’s FB on 6/4.
———
“JUNE 2010
9 new photos
June 4 at 2:21pm · Comment · LikeUnlike · View Feedback (5)Hide Feedback (5) · Share
3 people like this.”
From this link:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1356422&id=1264414625&ref=fbx_album&fbid=1485803306100#!/photo.php?pid=1356418&id=1264414625&fbid=1485802986092
(again … thanks to sassifrass who posted this info at SM)
@Rosey …
… “Also reading the posts where some of us go back and forth about the 955 S Pacific Hwy being on the poster; there is not one single missing child poster with an address listed on it, so why did we think we saw that? Perhaps in the article? IDK…”
~~~
there were three of us who saw the 955 S Pacific Hwy on the poster for missing children .. within a day the address was gone .. we all asked about it, each thinking we were losing it … but were able to validate each other, that indeed 955 S Pacific had been seen.
I don’t recall, in all the times I’ve looked at that poster with the same info … that Elsy was referred to as “companion”
Information disappears in this case … why?????
Ode says:
January 17, 2011 at 8:07 pm
******************
I read that last night about Kaine attending the Northwest Coalition Against Trafficking conference(it was held in Portland Jan 14-16, 2011). I saw a picture of him with some other attendees (including Darryl Hannah, who works to get the word out about trafficking).
I did some further research and discovered that this year the conference added a “Vigil for Hope”, so that families of missing and abducted people and those impacted by domestic violence could join with the other attendees in giving hope to those affected.
My first response to seeing that Kaine attended was like yours and others who have posted about this. “Oh my god, is this where we are heading-trafficking?”
Now, I am thinking he attended the Vigil for Hope just because it included people affected by having a missing loved one in any form, whether abducted, missing, trafficked, etc.
This is not to say that Kyron is not a trafficked child-we don’t know that yet-but it’s not a guarantee he is, just because Kaine attended the Vigil for Hope.
Link to the conference:
http://nwcat.org/
@11.Ode says:
January 17, 2011 at 8:07 pm
18.Kimberly says:
January 16, 2011 at 8:07 pm
@ Lea Conner
snip>
Very interesting. Wonder what changed Mr. Horman’s mind about wanting the divorce done yesterday?
*********************************
Exactly! He’s been awfully quiet lately.
************
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Missing-Kyron-Horman/125336750831264#!/photo.php?fbid=182189515145987&set=a.125436494154623.14645.125336750831264
Kaine was at the sex trafficking conference in Portland. I think this speaks more than anything as to the direction we are headed. I want to cry. To me this is not quiet, it screams.
————————————————–
I think all along Kaine had a theory as to what happened to his son,i.e. motivation, intent, opportunity. Whether LE can prove TH is fully involved is another matter. It has to be a nightmare for both Kaine and Desiree..Kyron “little boy lost”. I hope LE has a working theory, the case goes forward and those responsible are brought to justice.
reposting from E-Rose who, among others, has done an outstanding job of ferreting out info!!!
enumclawrose says:
September 17, 2010 at 5:03 pm
RUDY
If I start with R L Landscape Maintenance, which we have been told is the Rudy we are interested in, he has this license since 01-08-2008 and is listed as Rodolfo Sanchez, P O Box 347, Canby OR 97013 and 7169 SE Renada St., Milwaukie, OR 97267. The Canby address goes back to Rudy Sanchez Landscape Maintenance 10-31-05 thru 11-01-07 with a physical address of 9850 SE Amherst Apt. 50, Clackamas, OR 97015.
JAIME
Jaime is tied to Rudy through the P O Box in Canby and the Renada St address. Estrada’s, 08-06-03 lists Jaime S Estrada, P O Box 347, Canby, OR 97013 and 19839 S Hwy 213 #1040, Oregon City, OR 97045. Clean Factor, 08-23-10, P O Box 2112, Oregon City, OR 97045 and 7169 SE Renada St., Milwaukie, OR 97267
Above information was on the Oregon Sec. of State Corp. Division.
Peoplefinders shows Rodolfo S Sanchez, aka Rodolfo Estrada, at 7169 SE Renada St., age 36, with possible relatives/associates of Jaime S Estrada and Ubaldo R Sanchez.
To me this proves that Rudy and Jaime, lived at the same address, shared the same P O Box as well as use the last name Estrada.
Can we definitively add to this connection?
constance says:
January 17, 2011 at 7:17 pm
Has everyone who posts here climbed on board with the theory that either the LS or the suspect zero did this crime, or is it that only those who believe that, still post?
I am much more toward believing that this is closer to home, i.e. TH and no one but TH. I don’t even believe she involved her friends. I think that is where LE may have become stuck-they convinced themselves she could not have acted alone yet they can’t find any backup to show a plan that others were involved. I think that is because there wasn’t anyone else involved. I think it would be very easy to leave with Kyron, no one paying attention, and we know she had lots of time afterward.
***********************************************************************************
@ constance.
Personally, I think Terri Moulton Horman is involved in this up to her eyeballs.
I’ve had that belief since the first time I saw her at that 1st presser.
At first I thought it was TMH alone … but have come to believe she had assistance from at least 1 other person, or at the very least she let some very evil people into her life – and that put the lives of Kyron (and her entire family) in danger.
I do believe that TMH is involved in Kyron not being with those that love him … to what degree though?
Multiple reasons for thinking TMH didn’t do this alone ….
The BIG one is:
Blink has told us multiple times here – that Kyron did NOT leave Skyline with TMH.
So, who did he leave with then ??
@Zeus,
When I study the blown up pic of person in checkered shirt I see this as someone facing us…clearly a little girl and what appears to be a small child behind the little girl – wearing an orange/red tee-shirt, extending his little right arm to the person in the checkered shirt (he is right around zipper level of person (probably extending his left arm too – just can’t see that in pic – but checkered person looks like that other arm could be in motion of holding childs left hand). I would say toddler age and probably shy – reason for latching on.
Just posting my 2 cents worth… I still think this is all Terri. I do think another person(s) has to be involved to a certain degree. Remember… LE has not, will not and should not confirm anything about this case other than that little Kyron is missing.
Based on the few things we actually know, and based on the focus of the searches so far, I still think this is all Terri. I think Terri DOES have an IDEA what happened to Kyron. Much more so than anybody else. She’s just watched enough crime TV to know she has a better chance of getting away with this by keeping her mouth shut.
Terri will never EVER be free of this…
I think I am the one going nuts Zeus. This pic is like an optical illusion, when I flip the canvas on the pic, it really looks like person in checkered shirt is standing sideways and bent over/down, at a child’s level (and MM’s arm is directly behind little girl). Sorry for the confusion.
New Estrada business as of 01-12-11
http://egov.sos.state.or.us/br/pkg_web_name_srch_inq.show_detl?p_be_rsn=1496147&p_srce=BR_INQ&p_print=FALSE
Don’t know if this one was already covered here
http://www.keprtv.com/news/local/113113944.html
I think it is great Kaine went to the conference, and is
taking an interest in others
I don’t think we all think alike here
we are keeping this place interesting while we wait
well not me but some others are
we have a active board at least
@ S – You are right, of course. If the person has been identified then it doesn’t matter what the person looks like. I can’t remember if a teacher was said to be in the room, but the PTA president was, and she may know even more people than many individual teachers do, so it’s quite likely those who are “in the know” do know who MM is, and the child as well.
Since LE has not, to my knowledge, verified that the person has been identified, even though that is probably true, it leaves that person open to scrutiny. If the person has not been identified, then physical features are all there is to go on, especially since the face does not show.
S says – “I think known facts combined with common sense should tell us that discussing the person’s hair color, attire and physique in association with being suspected of committing a horrendous crime against an innocent child will not help us find Kyron nor figure out what happened to him.”
Respectfully, your statement which I’ve quoted above stood out to me as a really big leap from discussing a person’s looks to calling them a suspect as a violent sex offender. I think, if I understand correctly, that was your point. It wasn’t my intention though, and I apologize if comments I made about physique or clothing style suggested that person might be guilty of a crime. I can’t speak for anyone else, but my interest was in connection with whether he/she was in the picture intentionally or by coincidence. If intentional, was it an attempt by Terri to verify the time she was there, or to show that particular person as being at the SF, or something else?
There has been discussion about whether the picture was photo shopped since at least June 22nd and that could also have a bearing on the case. There may be experts with LE who know the answer to that and many other questions. Unfortunately, we haven’t been given that information, so we muddle on with the hope of connecting dots which will help find Kyron.
S says – “Would it not be likely that this pic would have been widely distributed by LE in an attempt to identify the girl or the man?”
In all honesty, I used to think as a fairly intelligent, experienced person I could answer questions like that. This case, however, has really made me question what I thought I knew about how LE investigates – not their dedication, expertise, or diligence, but their methods. Once you understand that LE is allowed to lie as an investigative technique, and then LE greatly restricts the flow of information that isn’t even totally private, you (I, anyway) start to wonder if you really know the answers to questions like these anymore.
zeus says:
January 16, 2011 at 11:43 pm
Jden says:
January 16, 2011 at 1:49 pm
http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/photo/kyron-noglassesjpg-cc969e0971b99405.jpg
Above is a good zoom of the SF photo (LE’s KyH without glasses).
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The more I studied that picture-the clearer it got to me! Thanks Jden for posting this blow up!
What I always saw as a person leaning awkwardly back and to the side (with the stomach area facing us), I can now see is actually a person with his/her back to us, leaning down (as if looking at an exhibit), with the left arm extended out to the side and possibly holding onto something for support.
I also see (though blurry), what appears to be longish, dark hair falling over the hood of the plaid jacket.
Now that I am looking at it this way, the person appears to be thin.
Does anyone else see it the way I’m seeing it? Or am I going crazy/crazier?
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It took a hard look, but I can definitely see what you see, including what could be hair. It’s like those cleverly drawn pictures that can be 2 different things depending on what your mind sees. The only thing I thought that was a bit different is that if the person is leaning over with back to us, the plaid clothing seems long enough to possibly be a coat rather than a jacket. A coat or ¾ length coat would indicate a woman to me, a jacket could be either.
I have talked several times about a disguise as a possibility for SZ, and about whether Terri was including the person intentionally or not, and about my difficulty in noting significant details instead of superficial things which stand out more. Now that I am thinking about this picture again, another possibility comes to mind regarding this coat/jacket which probably was unique in the crowd at the SF.
What if 2 people used this jacket on June 4th? Someone who looked at this picture and saw the jacket (or coat) might verify that a particular person was in the room, providing an alibi for this person who perhaps was known to Terri and photographed carefully on purpose. There are a number of ways switching jackets could be useful to someone wanting to hide in plain sight. This isn’t even high tech – it’s Perry Mason style. I wouldn’t say the probability is high, but it might deserve to be on the list somewhere.
Slightly O/T, but something every parent should see.
Sorry to those of you that don’t “do” Facebook, I couldn’t find the original “Today” video so this is the only link I have. For those wondering how Ky might have been possibly taken out of the school possibly unwillingly without anyone seeing/hearing anything, please watch this.
I couldn’t even believe no one did anything until 2 guys hours later at the very end. Just imagine if this were actually your child! As a psych major back in college yrs ago, I am well aware of the “bystander effect” but I have always known it to apply more to adults being attacked, someone’s purse being stolen in public, etc, things of that nature. I honestly had no idea it could ever apply to a potential child abduction by a stranger in public! People … don’t assume “someone else will take responsibility” and do something! This was in downtown NY area and no one did anything!
Truly gave me goosebumps watching it. It should give you goosebumps too but more than that, it should make you think twice about just assuming in public no one could ever actually take your child and get away with it. This TV man easily could have several times over with not a hint of help from anyone had it been an actual abduction. Is this really the world we live in today????
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=181697195191001&comments&ref=mf
Are you sure it wasn’t the Vigil for Hope that Kaine was at? That took place on Sunday night, for missing kids in general, not just sex trafficking…
Here is a “tweet” for you all. Ruth Ingeborg Tweet, possible associate or room mate of Rodolfo Sanchez, Rodolfo S Estrada (definately our Rudy). I originally thought the Tweet’s may have had the Renada St house prior to the Sanchez-Estrada gang, but who knows.
http://www.veromi.net/Summary.asp?fn=RUTH&mn=I&ln=TWEET&dobmm=&dobdd=&doby=&city=&state=&age=&vw=&Search=&Input=&x=49&y=10
OBIT for Ruth Tweet’s sister, Helen L Dupus (86) names Helen’s daughter:
Dorothy “Dotty” HOLM of Lake Oswego
Survivors include her daughter, Dotty Holm of Lake Oswego and Carol Johns of Oregon City; her sister Ruth Tweet of Milwaukie; five grandchildren and three great-grandchildren.
http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.northam.usa.states.oregon.counties.lincoln/1147/mb.ashx
At first I thought Dotty could be Kim’s mother, but she and/or Carol have 5 kids, which I think I can account for, but there are only three ggkids, which with Kim’s gang, there would be lots more if Kim were Dotty’s daughter.
Don’t forget Dotty’s sister Ruth Tweet is connected to Rudy. So maybe Kim’s dad (HOLM) and Dotty’s husband (HOLM) are related?
SANCHEZ – TWEET – HOLM ???
I’m starting to wonder if the person who left that weird post some time ago was actually leaving serious information. I caught it and asked him/her for the source of information.
Blink do you remember it? One time poster as far as I can tell, never seen it before, haven’t seen it since. Poster said it was RS father and with his, not RS’s, grandaughters that were the “chaperone and two girls”.
I have no clue how to find that comment, it was made a long time ago and like I said, nobody said much about it but me at the time.
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers, sister, friends and classmates.
35.zeus says:
January 16, 2011 at 11:03 pm
I really wish I had a better memory-but I do remember something about seeing more pics posted June 4th on TH’s facebook before it was shut down.
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@zeus-
Here is a link to TH’s FB photos, cut and past into your browser:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1356420&id=1264414625&fbid=1485803106095
@ puzzled says:
January 17, 2011 at 1:56 pm
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No. All my searches show Rudy with a relative named Ubaldo R Sanchez. An ‘R’ middle initial; not an ‘F’. (Blink said she could confirm Rudy related to an ‘R’ also)
The Ubaldo of Ubaldo and Maria fame in Woodburn is with an ‘F’. And also has used names with a Fernandez in them.
I’m still trying to determine if Ubaldo R Sanchez is a real person. Or, an alias name used by Rudy in one of his incarnations. Simply to see if Ubaldo R exists; if so, I want to sleuth him as a “homie” of Rudy’s. If not, I want to sleuth him to see what Rudy might have been up to under the name Ubaldo R Sanchez.
Puzzled???
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@ Constance: What we are taking as fact, from Blink, is that Ky did NOT leave the school with Terri. Therefore, we are looking for who took him. We can tie the Ky-grabber back to Terri later (or not, as the truth turns out to be). No one has forgotten Terri.
@puzzled: I’ve never been able to confirm that Estillo Salon shared the PO Box with RS Landscape Maintenance. Can you help me?
All I’ve ever found at OR Sec of State’s business records is:
RS Landscape Maintenance with PO Box 347 in Canby.
Estillo Salon with PO Box 291 in Canby. (Registrant & Auth. Rep is Estee Godinez. Salon located at 1414 Washington St, Ste 4)
PO Boxes are reassigned when surrendered. Did Estillo Salon use Rudy’s Box 347 BEFORE Rudy had it? Got info on that?
Neighbor, you haven’t confused me. TY for your help. Looking at the school layout, and earlier info, we know those classrooms below Ky’s are where the electrical exhibits are.
I just want to get a good grasp of where things were, where adults were routinely coming and going at the school and therefore wouldn’t raise any heads.
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@gayle fulk: We had speculated here earlier that the little girl looked like Jamie Mejia. But now that Neighbor has said she believes the girl is Asian and has seen her around with one or both of the people in that photo, I believe we’re looking at that. And at the possibility that the girl is the adopted chinese child of the Dahme’s, who were at the Fair and live on Skyline Blvd. Could be either, at this point, so far as I know.
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To all: I still believe that anyone who was in camera range of Terri at the Fair would have aborted his plan to take Ky that day. And probably wouldn’t have been that close to Ky or Terri in the first place. (just opinion; no evidence for that)
Personally, I think that SZ is not on camera, probably not on the Sci Fair attendee list, and not on any other list I’ve seen. (I’m still open to all those possibilities, though. And at the possibility that some known person let him in–inadvertently or not). I think we need to put him on a list, though, and the sooner the better.
Confessing, here. That was my post to True Nelson that he answered on Jan 13. (see his Jan 7 piece; I’m comment #2, printed in full below). But he snipped my rationale and the real question I was asking him, since he said he though Ky is in Mex/Guatamala. Why? So, I asked him:
“Thank you so much for your insight. One thing puzzles me: why would someone go through the ordeal of snatching this child and getting him into Mexico/Guatemala? Surely it would be solely for personal use. Because in those countries local kids are so readily available for sex. Why take the risks that were taken?”
January 11, 2011 6:51 AM
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I was hoping to get more insight specific to Ky’s case, but didn’t. Those countries are full of local kids who are prostituted, both to locals, and in the tourist sex business. Why go to all the trouble to take Ky? (Want a caucasian???)
In a similar vein, I believe that Kaine and Desiree have latched onto this a the only viable theory, this late, that supports Ky being alive. Which they desperately want to believe. LE is not telling them that as a given; but, once again, MCSO has “no evidence” to suggest it didn’t happen either.
It is no coincidence in my opinion that Kaine attended the NW Conf. on Trafficking this past weekend. I have always thought that the “things we wish we didn’t know” involved TH’s questionable sexual activities. Why would one person have so many email addresses? phones? texting affairs? LE must know something “shocking” from her computer/phone/it trail. There was an interview with KH (that I cannot find right now) when asked how he is coping everyday, he stated that it was not about him, it was about what Ky is going through every day that everyone needed to focus on, to get him home. And when Kaine was asked in the People article about others not wanting to get involved because of fear he respondes “He’s afraid.” and “I wish a lot of things were different so I could take on the burden he’s going through right now.”
About what Ky is going through every day, Ky is afraid, Ky’s burden!!
I believe Ky is alive (or was alive) and is or was being abused by a sex trafficking associate via TH, and that TH knows or knew that Ky would be taken by sex traffickers or a sexual deviant. (Remember Shawn Hornbeck) And I believe that time is of the essence.
Praying for Ky’s safe return to DY ASAP.
Mockingbird Sings: Have I got this right? That all legal actions by DHS to remove a child from parental custody, and those actions involving child neglect/abuse are heard in Juvenile Court? And, as such, the records are not available to the public?
I do see that if a DHS case is appealed, it is tried in appellate courts. And in those cases, the case name is listed in public records, though the meat of it is not. Unfortunately, that’s not what I’m looking for. But just FYI, appellate courts will list an appealed matter involving DHS in this styling (this is how it reads). For example, if we were looking for an appeal involving Jamie Mejia, it should read:
In the Matter of J.M. a child…Department of Human Services
OOps. Here’s an actual case showing the styling of what might be a custody matter against R.F., probably a parent(not sure of that):
In the Matter of J. B., a Child. Department of Human Services v. R. F. (A146034)
link: http://www.publications.ojd.state.or.us/appeals.htm
20.puzzled says:
January 17, 2011 at 9:11 pm
@Kimberly
Drove by that salon last week when I was out that way at an appointment. BTW, salon was dark, empty and not open.
~~~
hmmm … very interesting! wonder when it closed … in the last 6 months or so?
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I wouldn’t say closed, as in closed down. Just not open for business
at 10:30 AM, on a weekday.
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Anybody know how to do a reverse license plate search with out having to pay? Can’t find any online!
@sassifrass: I’ll answer the question you asked at SM this morning. I know that there was AFTER-school care at Skyline that day, but I cannot confirm before-school care. It would likely be consistent for the benefit of those children’s parents, but IDK.
Remember my post here linking to a MSM video with Angella Davis? On aftn of June 4 she and her daughter were greeted by a bunch of police cars when she came to pick up her daughter from aftercare (daughter NOT a Skyline student and IDK why not).
If Sassi isn’t here could someone here who’s a SM member give her this answer? TY
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BTW, about sex trafficking Ky to south of the border: if you wanted a caucasian kid, why not take one closer than OR? Unless you had a periodic travel schedule down there and could just put him in the truck, ex? If you’re hauling produce–or something–from Mexico up to OR, that’d work. (Maria G. Sanchez, I do believe, has rented growing fields in Hillsboro. Her Pacific Color Grass sells ornamental grasses wholesale–at Portland Flower Mkt and elsewhere. Ornamental grasses from Mex don’t perform well in OR anyhow.
But, Ubaldo does have an internat’l UDOT truck license.
However, he is, barring new evidence, NOT the Ubaldo R Sanchez that’s a relative of Rudy’s (or IS Rudy; or something).
12.constance says:
January 17, 2011 at 7:17 pm
(snipped)
Has everyone who posts here climbed on board with the theory that either the LS or the suspect zero did this crime, or is it that only those who believe that, still post?
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@constance- I hear what you are saying, really I do. With all respect, here is my thinking:
IF TH is the person that abducted Kyron, then she is not a threat to anyone else and I don’t need to worry about her harming another soul at this time. Further, IF she is guilty of same then LE and the DA has her in their sights and are proceeding with a case against her. All of that is just FINE with me.
HOWEVER, IF it was not TH, and there is some other perp out there, I am not FINE with that and I want to make sure that I/we cover all of our bases, look under every rock, in every corner, etc., just in case.
Yes, she looks guilty, but so far she has not been charged, indicted, or arrested, so I cannot focus solely on her. I have to keep digging just in case there is/are any other person/persons responsible for whatever happened to Kyron. I live up here and have kids to worry about, so I am practicing due diligence to make sure whomever is responsible, be it TH, or her cronies, or some complete stranger, will be found and brought to justice.
I’ve posted before that the plaid shirt unknown person might be Elsy.
Went back to the SF photo with a mm/inches ruler. According to my measurements the mystery person is 5 feet 1.3 inches, which matches the description given of Elsy in the posters. Additionally, the thin long dark hair and stout stature is a match. The little girl is of similar resemblance to the missing Jaime, also featured in the poster.
Here’s how I came to my height conclusion.
The poster indicates Jaime is 3 feet 8 inches. My mm ruler shows her being 50 mm in the blown up photo with my screen set at 150%. The bent over woman measures another 20mm from the top of the childs head to an estimate of the top of the woman’s head.
20 into 50 is 2.5. 3 feet 8 inches equals 44 inches. 44 divided by 2.5 equals 17.6. Add 17.6 inches to 44 inches and we get 61.6 inches which equals…. 5.133 feet.
I’m not a wiz by any means so someone may find fault with my math and I would not be surprised. I would be surprised if that were not Elsy in the background, though. Note the big bottom of the mystery person by the way the shirt hangs. Men ususally do not have bottoms that large.
Now, who is the grey haired man? Have we recieved any confirmation that he is a parent or family member of an attending student at Skyline?
I can’t help but say how much respect I have for the posters here. I feel very fortunate I accidentally landed on this site. The ideas, research efforts, experience, and ability to articulate reasonably is immeasurable.
I feel strongly that justice will be served.
snip>
With all this new evidence, police are concerned there could be even more victims. Court papers say Graichen approached five teens, in two different incidents in June.
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http://www.keprtv.com/news/local/113113944.html
31.Shelly says:
January 17, 2011 at 11:44 pm
Don’t know if this one was already covered here
http://www.keprtv.com/news/local/113113944.html
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This angers me and makes me thoroughly sick.
He sure sounds like he thought he was above LE!
enumclawrose says:
January 18, 2011 at 3:31 am
SANCHEZ – TWEET – HOLM ???
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@ e-rose.
Wow. Now there’s a possible connection of ‘who may have known who’ that I’ve not seen before.
Very interesting.
Thanks!
“True Nelson, a former Special Agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, is a Portland, Oregon Security Consultant.”
This is a newer post (January 13, 2011) at True Associates; It’s worth the read to see his take. Scroll down to see others comments regarding this case.
http://trueattrue.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2011-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&updated-max=2012-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&max-results=8