Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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Just a quick note, I’ve got the grandaughter today, from the responses I saw where Beejay asked about the electric projects (thanks beejay), I see that while there were some there were not ANY downstairs.
I know Tanner’s statement has been dismissed by LE…and he either changed his story from the written interview to the video, or he was mis-quoted (more than likely mis-quoted)when the interview was written. Here’s the thing…he said the project was in the basement. We know the electrical projects were not in the basement, makes me wanna know what WAS down there.
One more thing…remember how Blink said this person would “stick out like a sore thumb”?? I asked some of the locals if people of color would stand out at Skyline…I even gave a link on the stats I found..I didn’t hear anything back from that question either.
Thoughts and prayers are with Kyron, his brothers, sister, friends and classmates.
@ cosmos says:
November 26, 2010 at 9:17 pm
_________________
OK, I’m confused now. Neighbor said that the electric ones were in a classroom two rooms (with ? mark) away from Ky’s. Not in the gym.
If we go with that, it works well for Ky going out the north door opening onto the rear parking lot where Blink says the other white truck was.
enumclawrose says:
November 26, 2010 at 7:06 pm
So then Ky is alive. By this scenario his dad stashed him, or had him stashed to frame TH. Or does he go beyond stashing? I might understand how this could happen, assuming the motive is against TH, but why make Ky pay? I get the logistics, by explain the emotional angle, please.
~~~
The same reasoning that TH “stashed” Ky for revenge against KH can be used to say somone “stashed” Ky for revenge against TH. Someone knew enough about TH and her daily routine with Ky to stage an abduction that would appear to implicate TH. 2nd white truck, Ky’s disappearance without a trace, unable to locate him, no trail evidence, TH’s routine to FM .. not suspicious until she drops off the radar for 90 minutes.
KH has believed from the beginning that Ky is “stashed” or being held … right up to last week when he made a personal appeal to “Ky” that it is safe to return home. I’m not questioning KH holding onto hope … but why not appeal to whoever has Ky? It doesn’t make sense to me.
Why wouldn’t the same theory of “a staged abduction to look like a kidnapping for ransom gone awry” plotted by TH be just as reasonable as a plot against TH, making her the #1 suspect.
I do not believe Ky is in the Portland area … and I don’t know if he is still alive.
mosaic says:
November 26, 2010 at 2:31 pm
It’s apparent TH spent a lot of time on Kyron’s science fair project. This can suggest many things.
GraceintheHills says:
November 26, 2010 at 11:51 pm
1.mosaic says:
November 26, 2010 at 2:31 pm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mosaic, you have brought out some very interesting questions about the SF project. Kudos to you! When I first saw it, I felt it was TMH’s “project” in every sense. A typical case of a mom wanting to win at any cost. Perhaps. There was another project that was photographed around that time that was clearly designed and executed by a child of Ky’s age, and had an amateurish look. Needless to say, that little project couldn’t hold a candle to Ky’s, but at least it was his.
——————————————–
Hi Grace and Mosaic,
Kaine helped Kyron with the project. TH only laminated parts of the project when it was finished. Terri wrote that on her facebook page.
I do not know if Ky is still alive … if there is a chance, I pray he is … if he is being held somewhere, and it has been six months now … all hell is going to break loose when he is found. Death of an innocent child has it’s own natural and just consequences. A complex scheme that requires the involvment of multi LE resources and costing millions of dollars will be like a rock slide coming down on the head of whoever is behind this scheme.
The simple and most obvious scenario is that TH planned and executed the abuduction with the help of possibly one other person.
The plain fact that no one has been indicted or arrested suggests something other than the obvious is going on here.
Hey All: this might be considered off topic, but I think it’s very relevant. I’m sending a link to an article about a former child prostitute in the WA/OR area. At the end of the article it talks about how WA has toughened up it’s adult business and porn laws so things have moved down to Portland. I did a little more research and found out that OR has some of the laxest laws in the country regarding adult venues, porn, etc. I would urge all of you locals to consider getting politically active and get your laws toughened up so it’s harder to exploit children and women. It would be a gift to give to Kyron and Desiree. Let me know how I can help from Lower Left.
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Avoiding-the-Life-110258569.html
30.Amy’s Sister says:
November 26, 2010 at 8:52 pm
@Amys’ Sister- No apollys needed, darlin’.
I looked for DDS’s condo on the real estate server, it doesn’t show us as sold or actively listed so that leaves 3 options:
- Foreclosed on
- Rented out
- She’s back living there, which is hard to imagine. I would think if she was back in Portland people might treat her pretty bad, yes?
**************************
47.iodizedseasalt says:
November 27, 2010 at 11:18 am
http://www.portlandmercury.com/portland/Content?oid=31856&category=23483
18thcomment-a sicko wrote this but the hinkymeter timeline mentions a “Chas” seeing a redheaded woman in a white truck coming off this road on to Hwy 30 right in front of him. Have the LE been out there to check that road?
Hi idzseasalt- I have to say that Bottom’s Up is even skankier than I thought, which really makes me wonder about the owners and patrons.
The sighting by Chas has been all around, up and down. We’ve discussed it here and I know that LE was given the info. I’ve looked at that entire area on google earth many times, there are a lot of dirt roads and private property along Logie Trail Road. It goes up into the trees, pretty dense in a lot of places. What I do not recall is ever seeing or hearing anything about LE searching those properties or areas along that road. I can’t find anything in MSM about it either. In short, just don’t know and it still bothers me. Maybe someone else knows more.
Puzzled,
TH could very well be under sealed indictment.
Lol. Now where have I heard that before?
B
beejay says:
November 27, 2010 at 2:27 pm
For that matter, freeing up the brain cells some, how do we know that Terri asked to drive the truck? Kaine told us. Any other source? I want independent confirmation. After that hinky cell phone business of his with Cook, I don’t trust Kaine.
~~~
I can come out from hiding behind the tree now … someone else, who I consider credible, is willing to entertain a discussion of a scenario other than the “obvious”.
the hinky cell phone business raised my suspicious antenna … plus the distancing of Desiree from Kaine … her clear statement of “choices” being made by Kaine doesn’t suggest a “Mr. Clean” award.
S says:
November 26, 2010 at 8:03 pm
If it was known that Kyron left with someone else, surely LE would say, “Kyron was seen leaving with a male/female in a so and so car, etc.” I don’t believe for a minute that LE has a witness who saw Kyron get into a vehicle and leave Skyline School parking lot and has kept that information a secret.
~~~
not necessarily … if LE wanted to keep the public’s focus on TH while they were looking elsewhere. LE’s not saying anything about the case.
We’re looking for the hands-on Ky grabber. Blink said she’s watching for something to come up on the groups that live in the two houses we were on awhile back. As of then nothing had. Maybe we should be watching what Blink is watching?
IIRC, these were residences related to Sanchez relatives and associates. I remember three, one being an older address at an apartment. The other two are the 955 whatever Hwy in Woodburn and Ubaldo/Maria’s house also listed under their real estate holdings.
Is there another addy we were looking at? The Milwaukie one? IDK, but we need to get back to that. When we were on those addys and the Elsy-connection was when Blink said she was very proud of our work.
@ beejay’s “OK, I’m confused now. Neighbor said that the electric ones were in a classroom two rooms (with ? mark) away from Ky’s. Not in the gym.
If we go with that, it works well for Ky going out the north door opening onto the rear parking lot where Blink says the other white truck was.”
———-
I suppose it all depends on the definition of “electric.” A science fair project on antimatter might not meet the straightaway definition of “electric,” for some people. It does for me though. It also sounds very cool and unusual… and even ironic, considering what happened to Kyron.
Tyler’s project on antimatter was the cool electric one, and it was in the gym/auditorium.
beejay says:
November 27, 2010 at 2:23 pm
Re Ky’s sci fair project: Kaine was the one who helped him with it; Terri just laminated it.
**********************
Thank you Beejay! I was about to post that same thing. From what I read at the beginning, Kaine was the one who helped Kyron with his project and TH laminated the parts that needed it.
The photos I’ve seen of some of Kyron’s artwork show that he is a really talented boy! His art seems advanced for his age by quite a bit. His sun picture is amazing! I think he was probably quite capable of doing his red eyed tree frog project mostly by himself, with just a little direction from an adult. I don’t think Kyron was an ‘average” student, especially in art and science.
——————————————–
Before his 5th birthday, Kyron entered Skyline School with approval from his parents, his pediatrician and a psychologist.
and……………
He showed an interest in science and a talent for art, which he applied to projects on airplanes, bridges and the red-eyed tree frog display in the science fair the day he disappeared. His parents cherish his artwork, including a self-portrait that hangs in his blue bedroom full of toys in Northwest Portland.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/09/kyron_hormans_family_keeps_up.html
**************************************************
Kyron’s “sun” picture:
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk281/piscesmystery/misc%20images/Kyron_Sun.jpg
________________________
Kyron’s self portrait:
http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/photo/kyronselfportraitjpg-f4d681afef25fff2_large.jpg
______________________
His Squirrel picture:
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:L9macJiNZXBJVM:http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt263/spedtial/Kyron%20Horman/Kyron_Squirl.jpg&t=1
_________________________
His apple and worms:
http://www.flashalertnewswire.net/images/news/2010-06/1276/35873/Kyron_Worms.jpg
_________________________
I haven’t seen it come up here yet, but FYI, this is one thing the FBI has been working on in Portland over the past year.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/11/27/oregon.bomb.plot/
Some kid wanted to set a car bomb off downtown at the Xmas tree lighting ceremony. : (
Maybe OT to this thread, but weighing heavily on us today.
@puzzled
“The simple and most obvious scenario is that TH planned and executed the abuduction with the help of possibly one other person.
The plain fact that no one has been indicted or arrested suggests something other than the obvious is going on here.”
———————————————
I think you are right. But, I wonder if we should drop the idea of 2 white trucks at the school other than LE possibly trying to rule out the GK since they were both at the school during the same timeframe. If a witness saw Ky outside the school by the truck with an adult it’s entirely possible the sighting was when TH arrived that morning. I’m assuming some other parents and kids were arriving also around the same time. So, what speaks to me is Ky did not leave in a white truck, too coincidental unless he left with TH or the GK. I believe Ky left school as instructed by TH and climbed into a vehicle which was not a white truck.
I also remember Carol Moulton saying Kiara was with a baby sitter that day and TH told her she was at Sauvie Island having a picnic lunch with a friend. I cannot find a link.
@ cbickel’s “Here’s the thing…he said the project was in the basement. We know the electrical projects were not in the basement, makes me wanna know what WAS down there.”
—–
The cafeteria is below the gym/auditorium. Because the school is built into a hill, I see it more as a split-level structure. Upstairs and downstairs are just relative terms:
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/ubrmel/KYRON/Maps%20KYRON/?action=view¤t=floorplanofSkylinecropped.jpg#!oZZ7QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2Fs160.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft166%2Fubrmel%2FKYRON%2FMaps%2520KYRON%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3DfloorplanofSkyline.jpg
http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?encType=1&where1=11536+NW+Skyline+Blvd%2c+Portland%2c+OR+97231-2604&FORM=MIRE1
puzzled says:
November 27, 2010 at 2:43 pm
enumclawrose says:
November 26, 2010 at 7:06 pm
Why wouldn’t the same theory of “a staged abduction to look like a kidnapping for ransom gone awry” plotted by TH be just as reasonable as a plot against TH, making her the #1 suspect.
________________________________________________
Blood is thicker than water. For KH, to what end? He would eventually want to be reunited with his son, right? Can’t be sure TH would want that. I’m trying to open my mind to all possiblities and I see Beejay “freeing up brain cells, too’” but I have to understand what he would hope to accomplish. Frame TH for the abduction, send her to jail, have Ky returned, then it’s just KH and kids?
I do agree the pleas are different. When I have time I will try to go way back, because it starts with TY. He made the first of such pleas. Blink commented on how he addressed the issue.
@cbickel: Here’s the Tanner video about the “electric” one. I don’t hear him say where in the bldg it was:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tAZ1FmHtcI&NR=1
Here’s the other Tanner electric video where he says either “I went downstairs” or “I was downstairs”, but didn’t make it clear where Ky was or went to (maybe you can hear it better than I can):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHdLd2SvUSU&NR=1
Commentator on one of those tapes says FBI and MCSO were interviewing TP again, as recently as the day before commentator is speaking, and getting more info. from him.
Remember MCSO asking the media for tapes, because it seems some witnesses may have said some things different to the media than in their interviews with LE? TP is the one I think of. I never read that LE discounted his story. (On one of these videos it is also said that TP said he saw Terri leave and Ky was not with her.)
zeus Ii like how you linked electricity to photons but would a 7 yr old know that?
I’ve been reading the posts and may agree that Terri did not leave with Kyron but maybe DeDe did. Maybe DeDe went in after Terri left and said she was going to take him to the doctor or that Terri’s truck wouldn’t start or SOME reason that a 7 yr old would believe. I firmly believe that Terri and DeDe are involved up to their eyeballs. DeDe has been pegged as being very meticulous and Terri seems to be a story weaver. I have a real gut feeling that one or the other got Kyron out of the building- maybe one was at the door and motioned for him to come out and they wove their story. These are the only two who will not take a polygraph.(or failed one) They are the ONLY two that will NOT talk.when Terri was talking,she was the only one complaining about HERSELF. She was the only one changing her story. Either she’s incredibly stupid or things didn’t go as planned
Ky’s classroom, the classroom with the electric exhibits, and the gym are all on the main level at school. Scroll down to see all diagrams at this link:
http://www.justicequest.net/forums/showthread.php?t=51083
TK, a 7th grader, did the antimatter exhibit. We don’t know if it was electric. There’s been discussion elsewhere that it could’ve been a Demming something (I’m lost) but a scientist at that site said that would be really advanced for a 7th grader.
Anyone know which floor 7th grade classes are on?
Anyone know if TK’s antimatter exhibit was “electric”?
Interesting to see at that same link, that as late as Aug 11 LE was still trying to figure out whose white truck was where. That’s the kind of info that makes me worry that the Ky grabber may still be on the loose. And available for hire.
I thought it was interpreted as a big mistake that the 2 photos of Freddy’s parking lots by MCSO showed the reference to Terri’s parking spot when you hovered over them. So much so that Blink (??) and others reported it to MCSO.
Well, they’re still the same way today, so it was either intentional, or MCSO figured too late, cat’s out of the bag:
http://www.mcso.us/public/newsroom/081110_PressConferenceFlier.pdf
37.FrannieT says:
November 27, 2010 at 2:08 am
Also, to clear a few things mentioned here. Terri and DeDe did indeed meet at a gym…After The Horman’s moved to current home, DeDe did not see them again until Terri’s 40th b-day party…next time DeDe and Terri saw each other, was when DeDe went to stay with Terri in June, right after Kaine moved out…She is indeed living in the Klamath Falls area, with her parents and is looking forward to becoming reconnected with family and friends there.
~~No disrespect, Just curious as to the source for the information above. Anyone else who can verify?
@S: I don’t know how it could be kept a secret witness, but I don’t see how it could be definitive another way. I really wish we knew how Blink knows, but then I guess that might be info not available to the general public, darn it.
@Mosaic: Your possibility is a good one, BUT like you said, it’s still and assumption, and assumptions aren’t certainties. And Blink spoke definitively, and said that Kyron did *not* leave with TH. I’m just trying to believe that maybe LE knows something big about that a.m. that has not been released to the public.
And even if Kyron didn’t leave with her, I don’t think for a second that this means that she didn’t plan this and want Kyron gone. There are too many things (the truck, the doctor’s appt, the sexts, the failed poly, her silence, her whining about her bloody highlights, her focus on her, her hatred of Kyron) that I can’t begin to get around. I’ve read explanations for each one, and if there were only *one* thing, then I could understand, but we’re talking all those things and more, and I don’t see how to explain all those things away without raising much suspicion. Even if Kyron did leave with someone else, that doesn’t mean TH didn’t meet up with him later, as well.
Jmoooooo.
S: “To me, Terri seen leaving the school building without Kyron does not equate into Kyron did not leave with Terri.”
I meant to add to my previous comment that this is exactly my point, too. So how can it be “certain” that he didn’t leave with TH unless it is certain that he did leave with someone else?
@cosmos: are you a Skyline parent? Your location for the electric exhibits (IF all were in the same place) is different from Neighbor’s. Neighbor said they were a couple of classrooms away from Ky’s; you’re saying:
“Tyler’s project on antimatter was the cool electric one, and it was in the gym/auditorium.”
We have a discrepancy to sort out. But, either way, Ky’s classroom is on the opposite end of the school from the gym. And between there and the gym, and close to a “couple of classrooms down from” is a door that opens to the rear/north parking lot where a white truck was parked that Ky might have left school in.
@enumclawrose: SUPPOSE, that Kaine was not trying to frame Terri on June 3 and 4, when he told her that he wanted to drive her red car (for some reason. Maybe he wanted to impress a friend. Whatever). She agreed to drive the truck.
But, afterwards, when he started explaining why she was in the truck, he didn’t want to say why HE had wanted the flashy car those two days. (can you say “alternative lifestyle” or, even, “girlfriend”??). So, he explained it, rather innocently at the time and avoiding any questions that he didn’t want asked about himself–as, Terri used the truck because of the Sci Fair project.
As time went on, and suspicions grew, and the white truck theories and other questions about Terri increased, Kaine just kinda remembered Terri driving the truck because SHE needed it.
@ Jackie….I agree with you. I’m trying to come to grips with Blink’s definitive statement that Kyron did *not* leave with Terri. And one way to be able to say that definitively is if there’s evidence that proves Kyron and Terri were at two different locations at the time of his disappearance. I’ll repeat that this does NOT preclude Terri’s involvement.
@foosbros et. al….thank you for correcting my assumption that TH was the one who helped with the project. Phew! Good thing I don’t work in law enforcement! Still curious…what time did she post the comment about Kaine helping with the exhibit?…before or after the trip down to the bus stop?
@zeus…thank you, thank you, thank you for posting links to Kyron’s artwork. I so love his self portrait. He has a good eye for color.
9.puzzled says:
November 27, 2010 at 4:09 pm
beejay says:
November 27, 2010 at 2:27 pm
For that matter, freeing up the brain cells some, how do we know that Terri asked to drive the truck? Kaine told us. Any other source? I want independent confirmation. After that hinky cell phone business of his with Cook, I don’t trust Kaine.
~~~
I can come out from hiding behind the tree now … someone else, who I consider credible, is willing to entertain a discussion of a scenario other than the “obvious”.
the hinky cell phone business raised my suspicious antenna … plus the distancing of Desiree from Kaine … her clear statement of “choices” being made by Kaine doesn’t suggest a “Mr. Clean” award.
——————————
OK now we’re getting somewhere. Count me in with your theories. He said he passed the LDT with flying colors. Doesn’t tell me anything. If you go back and watch some of the interview videos of KH he didn’t have a clue as to what his wife was up to. Do we know if he was aware that Ky was going to stay with DY and TY that weekend? What I heard was about going for ice cream after Ky got home from school. Also, why didn’t TH and KH pick up Ky from school along with his SF project. Going way out there what if TH and KH are either both involved or he set her up. He was too together at the first PC. Out of the four I found DY and TY believable. TH and KH..I got the opposite feeling. LE is publicly focusing on TH for a reason and her husband’s involvement may just be the “surprise”. Maybe he doesn’t have a clue what she’s been up to but LE does. LE has stated “everyone is suspect”. Now we have to come up with a motive…
18.lyla says:
November 27, 2010 at 4:56 pm
(Snipped)
I also remember Carol Moulton saying Kiara was with a baby sitter that day and TH told her she was at Sauvie Island having a picnic lunch with a friend. I cannot find a link.
@lyla- I have not heard or read this account of that day ever. Very interesting…if you do find a link for it I will have to kiss you! On the cheek, of course. TY.
says:
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26.Jackie Bauer
November 27, 2010 at 6:39 pm
@Jackie Bauer- Great post, always love your posts. I’ve tried sooo hard to keep an open mind about TH, but the longer this goes on the harder it gets for me. Too many things that don’t add up, you said it so well.
*******************************
@beejay- I see where you are going…
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I think LE knows the who, I really, really do. IMHO, sealed indictments and warrants all over the place!!! I still am hoping for a miracle, can’t help it, that’s me. Love and Prayers for Kyron!
iodizedseasalt says:
November 27, 2010 at 5:23 pm
zeus Ii like how you linked electricity to photons but would a 7 yr old know that?
*************
LOL! No, I meant that about the 7th grade boy who did the anti-matter project, when asked by a poster here if anti-matter would be considered an “electric project”!
@12. Cosmos. I have always believed that was the “electrical” cool exhibit Kyron was headed for, and credited Tyler’s statement he saw him in the gym with friends. I have always had trouble with this 7th grader saying at that samr time he saw Terri’s truck outside — based on 1) how would he know what she drove that day or that that particular truck was hers, 2) how would he see it if in the gym seeing Kyron and others (high windows), 3) why would he notice it or any other car or truck parked in a full lot when busy himself, or remember it?
Freeing up the brain cells, fwiw, and in the spirit of nothing can be excluded..
I once saw a crime show where a child went missing and was found murdered. The focus of the investigation was on the parents, first one then the other. Both parents had alibi’s as well as suspicious behaviors. Both parents had seperate trials, where the other parent was used as the reasonable doubt for the other. They were portrayed as enemies. When both trials were over and both parents were acquitted, they left the courthouse via the same elevator. When the doors on the elevator closed, they held hands. Chilling.
“Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never–in nothing, great or small, large or petty–never give in, except to convictions of honor and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy”….WInston Churchill..
~~~~~~
If I may share…I have recently visited other cases our dear Blink is investigating and I just gotta tell ya…Her commitment is SOOOOO profound it brings me to my knees. The commitment of all of you here reading this has tremendous impact helping LE. Do not stop. The success of our species depends on efforts like the pursuit of justice , truth and peace. I am thankful for your humanity.
May I tell you that quote was just what I needed today? It is exactly about humanity and the preservation of same.
Shed away the who is right, who is wrong, if you believe anything we cover here could absolutely happen to someone you love, it is your obligation, imo. I am forever grateful for the support of all of you who, imo, have such a personal constitution.
B
Lisa says:
November 27, 2010 at 3:52 pm
Puzzled,
TH could very well be under sealed indictment.
Lol. Now where have I heard that before?
B
~~~
and couldn’t some yet unknown person be under a sealed indictment?
absolutely. Technically, you can indict a Jane or John Doe
B
I admit that I am not very good at picking the winner and losers in these high profile cases. I thought OJ was guilty and we all know how that turned out .
Portland Law Enforcement has been busy … recent headlines ….
FBI thwarts terrorist bombing attempt at Portland holiday tree lighting, authorities say.
Columbia Sportswear’s CEO Gert Boyle robbed.
Portland cops pounce on child sex trafficking ring.
Does anyone really think TH has a criminal mind capable of outwitting multi LE agencies in Portland?
Been reading the past few days, and you all are really
rocken! great posts and thoughts.
One thing I have been noticing alot lately is what some may call co-incidence.
We know RS has/had, an alias (or two), or three, but, what if its more than what we know about.
MCSO has been booking quite a few illegals over the past month, that I have noticed more so. Whats odd, is the cross checking I have been doing , is finding names, associated with the what we know, and other last names.
Don’t get me wrong, I know that in any last name , there will always be some common first names that are popular, However; what I’m finding is the same first names , being associated with a variable of last name aliases, and switching around. Does that make sense? I’m trying to be somewhat discreet and not just through names out that may have nothing to do with all of this. But, what I did find, is an Elsy Reyes, from Portland and connected as a possible relative to the guy I have listed below.
MCSO has a guy they booked 11/25/2010 for hindering prosecution, and assault. The guys last name is valenzuela! on veromi, it cross matches to last name of Reyes. Now I’m not 100% positive this is our Elsy, but, I’m not sure it couldn’t be either.
What I’m finding incredibly frustrating is the knowing in my gut that these are the same people, no matter what spanish type last name I enter and find the same people, in the same areas of our interst appearing time and time again, and me not being able to give any definative proof.
In my sleuthing, I have come across a few names that appear time and time again, such as Yolanda, (she is cross matched to Anselmo) on veromi, and is listed under a different Hispanic last name continuously, and tied, either to Woodburn or Portland. Again, no positive proof that it’s the same person, but, too many co-incidences for me to discredit. Jaime, is another name found frequently.
I can’t tell you the amount of time and Hair I have lost hoping that with each new Hispanic person booked in MCSO or Washington county and then looking them up on Veromi, I have wanted to go Bingo, there it is.
Having said all of that, I am convinced this is some sort of drug ring, and or sex ring. Why else would there be so many of them being booked on either drug charges, or sex charges? Lawyers and Executives are possibly into money laundering, and the business being opened and operated by illegals are fronts .
All of this is MOO, and I encourage others to research what I have mentioned. Maybe one of you can tie it all together where I haven’t been able to.
Valenzuela, Ulma Y
Possible Aka’s:
REYES, ULMA Y
Portland, OR
Available Reyes, David D
Reyes, Tiburcio
Reyes, Elsy
Doloresreyes, Octavio J
Reyes, Maria
Reyes, Jose L
Avalosreyes, Luz M
Reyesramire, Margarita
Reyes, J J
Same veromi page shows a tie to the last name of “Meija” in portland
as well.
5.puzzled says:
November 27, 2010 at 2:59 pm
The simple and most obvious scenario is that TH planned and executed the abuduction with the help of possibly one other person.
The plain fact that no one has been indicted or arrested suggests something other than the obvious is going on here.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Not necessarily. When this case broke, I was convinced the simplest and most likely scenario was that a SO hiding in plain sight snatched Ky. I thought LE would have the perp in no time flat, after plenty of witnesses to the snatching came forward, or Ky was found. But, of course, then along came the MFH, and all the other bothersome little details such as the iffy polys, the hole in TMH’s alibi, the hole in DDS’ alibi, the cell phone pings, the repeated searches of Sauvie, and most recently the hateful emails in which TMH wrote of hating and wanting to harm Kyron.
In my experience, it can takes months, sometimes even years to build a proper circumstantial case. Not having indictments at six months out without even having a clearly defined crime, crime scene or a body is not unusual at all. And, ya never know. The DA *could* have a sealed indictment or two up his sleeve…IDK.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Today, while visiting with my mom, we started discussing the case. She watched the Dateline episode a few weeks ago, and I showed her a couple of BOC articles tonight. She looked at the SF project and said, “Well, you know she (TMH) took the photo that day because she wanted everyone to know she was there.” “Explain please, Mamacita,” I asked, waiting for yet another theory. Mom said, “To show witnesses, like that woman at the store, she was there with him. That photo is very important. It is part of her alibi.” Mom also said that she believes Ky was quickly escorted out of the school at a time when many of the parents were leaving, probably going on in to work, around 8:30 to 8:45. Hmmm…I never thought of that. She has a hinky feeling about DDS. Hmmm again.
Mom and Grace both MOO right about now. And Mom sends her best to “Ms. Blink.”
Of course, the truth is not one of us knows who took Kyron and where s/he put him. So, my mom and I will continue to send prayers for Kyron.
Well, I did think of another way that LE could be certain that Kyron never left with TH and that is if LE had definitive proof that Kyron never left the school at all. But that doesn’t seem like it’s even in the realm of possibility, so back to thinking of other options.
veromi search of washington county inmate, AYALA, BENINO
produces the following names listed under Ayala:
Ayala, Jaime R
Gladstone, OR
Available Get Details…
Ayala, Jaime R
Gladstone, OR
Milwaukie, OR
Available Ayala, Refugio Rodriguez
same area of town we have been looking at
with the other known names. Estrada and Sanchez
@FrannieT
I did spend some time on Dede’s support
page last night
in fairness she has lots of devoted friends
saying nice things about her
some names I have seen before
I really suspect her but I am open to any thing
that proves me wrong
thanks for your post
Other ideas are Kaine and Terri are together
and their family was in such danger from ?
That they all separated to protect the family
just thinking of all possible things
Frannie T says:
November 27, 2010 at 2:08 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I respectively disagree. Aside from innuendo and pure speculation, I haven’t seen any credible evidence that KH is involved in his son’s disappearance. I don’t think for one minute that KH took Kyron from that school, nor do I believe he conspired with anyone to commit this crime. I would stake my professional reputation on this belief. MOO.
I don’t have enough information to know whether DDS is involved, but I do know whatever questions she was asked led to her hiring of an attorney. Her place and vehicles have been searched, IIRC. She may have been cleared by LE. IDK.
I just want Kyron found. Whoever did this to him deserves to be prosecuted, and hopefully will be one day.
Beejay says:
At least one student, and possibly other persons present on June 4 saw Ky after Terri did…
____________________________
Do we have independent confirmation of this?
14.zeus says:
November 27, 2010 at 4:45 pm
“Before his 5th birthday, Kyron entered Skyline School with approval from his parents, his pediatrician and a psychologist.”
~ She is the most pleasant little person to be around. Sometimes it’s easy to forget she’s only seven, because we talk, work on projects and make/share memories for hours on end. At home, she’d much rather close herself off in her room, with sketch pads, Littlest Pet Shop animals and her Leapster learning game. She tires easily of being around her 22 month old baby sister, yet when away from home and around other children, she’s very patient with them~always.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Red flag~ Aspergers Syndrome…. I’ve thought from the beginning, it’s highly probably Kyron is an Aspergers child, which comes in many degrees. For a psychologist to make a referral, this would conclude something was going on with Kyron, because it’s not the very day ‘norm’ for a child to be seeing a psych. professional. I’d also be willing to believe Kyron has issues with ADD. These conditions can very much attribute to less than ‘wonderful’ home situations, because he would feel safe to let it all out with those he’s most familiar with and trusts. Yet, when he visits Desi and Tony, he’s most likely seen and hears as a much calmer child~because he may still be attempting to gain approval. (hope this explaination makes sense)
For example:
My 7 year old Granddaughter has Aspergers and is now in the first grade, though her readin and math skills are at a 6th/7th grade level. Her teachers for the last two years and now this year, have all discussed advancing her up at least two grade levels. Problem is, she is definitely not ready socially. She is able to sit and have lengthy conversations with any aged person, young or old~but socially, she becomes frustrated quite quickly and will clam up and/or become very angry for no apparent reason. This anger causes horrible tension at home, yet when she’s here for a visit, like tonight
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23.rmacks says:
November 27, 2010 at 6:32 pm
37.FrannieT says:
November 27, 2010 at 2:08 am
“Also, to clear a few things mentioned here. Terri and DeDe did indeed meet at a gym…After The Horman’s moved to current home, DeDe did not see them again until Terri’s 40th b-day party…next time DeDe and Terri saw each other, was when DeDe went to stay with Terri in June, right after Kaine moved out…She is indeed living in the Klamath Falls area, with her parents and is looking forward to becoming reconnected with family and friends there.”
rmacks says: November 27, 2010 at 6:32 pm
“~~No disrespect, Just curious as to the source for the information above. Anyone else who can verify?”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The source is actually DeDe Spicher, herself.
iodizedseasalt says:
November 27, 2010 at 5:23 pm
I agree. There’s is too much about TMH and DDS that is “fishy”. As for KH’s involvement, he passed a LDT. If he’d been absent from Intel that morning, that would’ve emerged much earlier, painting him in a different light, IMO. The two red-heads seem to have the most to conceal, hence their silence, going into (self)protective mode. Just TMH’s body language alone from the first PC indicated fear and/ or uncertainty not grief–also MOO.
Thinking if TMH were setting up the scene at the SF: Think of the t-shirt Ky wore for his SF pic (CSI)As for the exhibit: Just wondering how many parents would have laminated the board for a one-day SF? (I know it was special, it was raining, it was a keeper)…Going out on a limb here, but could there have been other fingerprints on the board? –And this, she says she “waved” at Ky. Could that have been a signal to person #3? Maybe a way of answering a question for a LDT that would have enough shreds of truth in it to not incriminate her—yet? MOO-ing again.
Thanks to all the posters here. I am enthralled with the various theories presented and the collective commitment to bringing Kyron home.
As I sift through the amazing information presented here, however, I keep coming back to the belief that TH meticulously planned Kyron’s disappearance so the blame would rest specifically upon the school and district – allowing her to play victim, collect a huge financial payout from PPS and get Kyron out of her life.
What ultimately convinces me of this scenario is not only has TH has exhibited no concern for Kyron, but in the hours/days immediately following his disappearance her own words had a singular focus: blame the teacher, blame the school. TH blamed the teacher for mishearing what she said, stated she felt Kyron was in “safe” hands when she left him at Skyline and claimed it was “chaos” during the science fair. In addition TH’s friend (who appeared on national television early on) placed miscommunication blame on the teacher due to a supposed hearing problem.
It is quite telling that TH told Kaine/Desiree nothing about Kyron’s “wandering off”, yet supposedly made a point of sharing this with people at the school. Also telling, if true, is TH’s insistence that Kyron tour with her instead of being part of a chaperoned student group.
Ensuring the school was held responsible was at the center of TH’s plan to get rid of Kyron, in my opinion. I am still on the fence as to whether she had help – before, during or after.
@beejay: “We have a discrepancy to sort out. But, either way, Ky’s classroom is on the opposite end of the school from the gym. And between there and the gym, and close to a “couple of classrooms down from” is a door that opens to the rear/north parking lot where a white truck was parked that Ky might have left school in.”
The north parking lot where the only handicapped parking spots are? Does that door stay unlocked per ADA?
And no, I am not a Skyline parent.
@Rose says:
“I have always believed that was the “electrical” cool exhibit Kyron was headed for, and credited Tyler’s statement he saw him in the gym with friends. I have always had trouble with this 7th grader saying at that samr time he saw Terri’s truck outside — based on 1) how would he know what she drove that day or that that particular truck was hers, 2) how would he see it if in the gym seeing Kyron and others (high windows), 3) why would he notice it or any other car or truck parked in a full lot when busy himself, or remember it?”
Right, I agree.