Kyron Horman Case: Terri Horman Sexts Sent To Kaine Horman’s Phone…. WHAT?
HOLD THE PHONE
In what can only be considered the latest bombshell development in the case of missing Portland boy, 7 year old Kyron Horman, blinkoncrime.com has discovered that the recent sexually graphic text messages or sexts, allegedly exchanged between Terri Horman and mutual friend Michael Cook, may have been altered. Definitely, alter-able.
Blinkoncrime.com has confirmed that the phone number which Kaine hand-wrote on the originally sealed emergency restraining order dated June 28, 2010, matches the cell phone number he also alleges, through his attorney Laura Rackner, was used by Michael Cook to RECEIVE the “sext” messages in question.
What’s the issue?
Kaine Horman owns the phone and the account it is registered to, and unless the allegation is that Terri Horman, using her own phone as purported by Kaine, is herself posing as Michael Cook and sexting herself, which would seem like a physical impossibility given some of her *glamour shots*, we have a serious problem.
In Kaine’s own handwriting on the June 28th Restraining Order, he pens that is an alternative number for Terri Horman.
In the contempt order filed by Kaine Horman on July 12, Ms. Rackner states that she has personally seen the “work phone” records of Michael Cook, and goes on to say “a search” of his cell phone reflected that he took snapshots on June 28th of the earlier served restraining order, which had been sealed, and was the basis for the contempt motion in the first place. He took pictures of sealed documents on the phone belonging to the other person bound by the same order prohibiting Terri Horman from showing anyone. As there are no texts on the work number until July, it is the only logical conclusion.
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that at some point it occurred to someone that using good faith information in your affidavit, which when not alerting the court that your client has complete ownership and access to the data on the phone account in question, can look like bad faith in a nano-second, thus the withdrawal.
However, not everyone is on the same the playbill because the 21 pages of texts, which were released in PDF format, and do not include any numbers for Terri Horman herself, were supplied in an electronically redacted format; which again indicates this was not an original file.
It was not until the unredacted pdf’s became available October 26th and we converted them to HTML files could we see that based on the file format, it is clear these records came from the account owners and were not subpoenaed from the carrier. Original files, also provided to the respondent, are the requirement of the court. We all know texts can be sent from our phone online accounts, and from our phones directly; I think I even have voice command to text widget thingie.
Anyone that had access to the account, which is registered to Kaine Horman, could clone, spoof, or manipulate those messages, period. That aside, let’s consider the possibility that Terri Horman HAD implicated herself even slightly in any messages on phones that may be utilized to illicit information by a woman who demonstrated her complete knowledge that she understood what expectation of privacy parameters she was under the impression she was operating under, and engaging in, with the “textee”.
Terri Horman was represented by counsel, it would not be difficult for Stephen Houze allege that Kaine Horman was in constant contact with MCSO, had already been provided case sensitive information by them, and as such, was acting as an agent in soliciting the text messages. You see where I am going with this?
The fruit of that poisonous tree is more like the fruit of the poisonous orchard.
The implications of this scenario are abysmal. While I completely understand the desperation of a Father wanting to locate his child, since I have yet to really see anywhere Cook attempts to engage Terrri Horman about Kyron’s whereabouts at any time; I do not get the point of the exercise.
Ms. Rackner is a first rate “Super Lawyer”, but she is not above the burden of her duty to insure that what is being provided to her as a “good faith basis” is just that.
Does this information make Terri Horman any less vulgarly inappropriate at best? Hell to the No.
While it is true on the surface because of this information one will be hard pressed to prove it was definitely Terri Horman who sent the electronic ipecac none of us will soon forget, her attorneys have not denied it was her, nor do I expect them to, at least not until they read this.
What it does, yet again, is potentially compromise the criminal case involving the disappearance of Desiree Young and Kaine Horman’s son Kyron.
This afternoon, blinkoncrime.com contributing editor and Legal Analyst, Lea Conner weighed in:
Kaine Horman claims that law enforcement provided the texts records to him, but that does not mean that the records came from the cell phone provider, nor does it mean that the conversations involve Michael Cook or Terri Horman.
In fact, there are indications that the text message transcripts filled by Mr. Horman are not as they appear. At least one of the phones purported to belong to “Michael Cook” is registered to Kaine Horman.
Just as important, none of these records indicate any information about the texts Mr. Horman alleges were sent by his wife. Mr. Horman does not list any cell phone number, not one message ID, not one cell record that indicates the identity of other party to the conversation let alone indicating Ms. Horman as the other party to the text message “conversations.” In the case of the phone with the “503″ prefix (503-XXX-XX76), Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone that was purportedly sending texts as “Michael Cook.”
More bizarre, Mr. Horman listed this number as belonging to Terri Horman in his application for a temporary restraining order. Was this a slip on the part of Mr. Horman? Mr. Horman claimed in a motion for remedial contempt that Ms. Horman showed a copy of the restraining order to Mr. Cook and allowed him to photograph the document.
Given that the phone Mr. Horman is the registered owner of the phone he purports was used by “Michael Cook,” it begs the question as to whether Ms. Horman ever allowed Mr. Cook access to the sealed restraining order. As a party to the action, Mr. Horman had the very same sealed documents. Mr. Horman, through Counsel Laura Rackner, claimed to have reviewed Mr. Cook’s “work cell phone records.”
It is not clear if the documents Ms. Rackner referenced as Mr. Cook’s “work” cell records are, in fact, for the phone registered to Mr. Horman. If the sealed documents referenced in Mr. Horman’s contempt motion were photographed with the phone registered to Mr Horman — the same phone that Mr. Horman claims was used by Mr. Cook — it might help explain why Mr. Horman withdrew his contempt motion.
Had he gone forward with the motion, he might have had to explain how it was the documents allegedly photographed by Mr. Cook were the same documents that he had in his possession, and that the phone used to photograph sealed court documents was registered to him, not Mr. Cook.
The records for the phone with a “971″ prefix (971-XXX-XX63) are unlisted. This phone also purported to send texts as “Michael Cook.” Due to the unavailability of any registration for this phone, it is impossible to tell to whom the phone belongs, or who was actually sending texts from this phone. The unredacted copy of the cell phone records filed on October 25, 2010, only identifies one caller on each set of cell phone records. This means that the records came from the phone, not the cell provider. Text records on pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 are from (503) XXX-XX76 (“Cell Phone A”). These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 10:17 pm on June 30, 2010 through 7:19 pm on July 1, 2010.
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Cell Phone A is a Cingular/AT&T cell phone registered to Kaine Horman. It is also a phone number listed by Mr. Horman in his restraining order application as a phone number for Ms. Horman.
Pages 1 through 12 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the conversation attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. Text records on pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 are from (971) XXX-XX63 (“Cell Phone B”).
These pages allegedly represent text messages sent between 6:49 pm on July 4, 2010 through 8:30 am on July 6, 2010. The bottom of page 17 has a partial text message sent on July 6, 2010, which purports to be sent after 8:30 am. Cell Phone B is an unlisted cell phone with AT&T (formerly Cingular).
In separate court documents, “Michael Cook” is identified as the sender of text messages and the recipient of text messages is identified as “Terri Horman.” Pages 13 through 17 of Exhibit 1 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. All texts in Exhibit 2 are from Cell phone A, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 2:29 pm on July 3, 2010 through 9:40 am on July 4, 2010.
Exhibit 2 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (503) XXX-XX76. All texts in Exhibit 3 are from Cell phone B, and allegedly represent text messages sent between 8:44 pm on July 6, 2010 through 8:41 am am on July 7, 2010. The top of page 1 of this exhibit has part of an undated message from 8:41 am., possibly on July 6, 2010, that states “I understand. I’m upset about kitty. I didn’t do [sic]”
Exhibit 3 does not list any phone number for the portion of the text messages attributed to Ms. Horman, only that the texts listed were received by (971) XXX-XX63. Surely investigators working on this case must know that the cell records filed by Mr. Horman as coming from Michael Cook’s phone were not from Mr. Cook’s phone, but from a phone registered in his own name.
Someone in law enforcement must have noticed that the number Mr. Horman claims belong to Michael Cook is also the number he claimed belonged to his wife in his TRO application. Mr. Horman signed his application for temporary restraining order on Monday June 28, 2010, prior to its filing at 4:39 pm that afternoon.
This was two days after the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office conducted its failed sting operation at the Horman residence on Saturday June 26, 2010. MCSO was unable to confirm the murder-for-hire plot that had been alleged by the landscaper. As a result, MCSO was not able to arrest Ms. Horman.
As such, why did law enforcement then give the green light to Mr. Horman to obtain a restraining order on the basis that his wife had hired to hire a hit man? Or did Mr. Horman act unilaterally without the endorsement of law enforcement? Surely Mr. Horman must have known that law enforcement could not verify the landscaper’s story, yet he went ahead and filed a restraining order based on the very allegations that law enforcement could not verify. So why did he sign his name to allegations that he knew were not true?
The text messages don’t check out. The murder for hire allegations don’t check out. The only common thread here is a man whose son disappeared on June 4, 2010. As tragic and anguishing as Mr. Horman’s circumstances may be, that does not excuse misrepresenting information to the court.
Mr. Horman cannot claim that the phone registered in his name is Michael Cook’s work cell phone, nor can he claim that the phone allegedly used by Michael Cook was used by Ms. Horman. When Sheriff Dan Staton talked about knowing things that might surprise people, could he have been talking about cell phone records? Maybe Stephen Houze and Peter Bunch will force the sheriff to reveal its source for the records.
Although the answer would not bring Kyron home, it might at least alleviate some of the blame heaped on Ms. Horman, as unpopular as that may be.
Lea Conner, contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
Madeline Tanner, copy and contributing editor, blinkoncrime.com
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It’s apparent TH spent a lot of time on Kyron’s science fair project. This can suggest many things.
My first impression when I saw a picture of Kyron’s exhibit was that the parent was “over-involved” in the project. I laugh when I say that because I remember doing the same thing with one of my daughter’s projects when she was in second grade. I realize now, thankfully, that a kid takes a hit to the self-esteem when Mom takes over on a school project.
But would TH spend that much time making her son’s project look “just right” for the same day she has planned for his abduction? If she had arranged for his murder, or was participating in his murder, wouldn’t she have more pressing things on her mind that day than whether his project had a really cool background image with a superimposed title?
Maybe she’s a very good multi-tasker. I honestly don’t know. Seeing his exhibit suggests to me that she was controlling in regards to his school work. But controlling or not, would a parent who wanted their step-child dead, invest that much time on a school project that helps make their child look good in the eyes of his classmates, teachers and other parents?
In the “similarities and differences” with DDS and TMH, they both wanted/needed their own money supply. Although DDS was single and TMH was married, MOO is they had found a way to make some MOOLAH—and as Amy’s Sister commented, DDS could no longer make that $$, so she had to give up the condo, move back in w/parents (lawyer up?). So both the gals are back w/parents. I’d put money on the fact DDS knew RS before–for some reason.
Possible:–TMH tried to play tough when she called LE on RS. He might have been chill with it,knew how to get out of it,had his papers “fixed” —but not the associates. Wonder if RS has done other “undercover” work for LE? LE seems to have handled this diffently right from the start.
IIRC, no Ky scent given for searches? No amber alert? Could LE have used the backpack left on his desk? Could DY have given an article? The teacher? (My cats go crazy over my students’ papers when I bring them home as they can “smell” other homes) And true enough…a scent would have ended at a car/truck. So at least they would know where he got into a vehicle.
So, again we are left with:
1. TMH had orchestrated this “disappearing” of Ky because of her hatred of KH and Ky. Her dissatisfaction with her marriage, step child, lack of career/$$, mid life crisis—all contibute to the recipe for disaster. Interesting that she changed James’ name, then sent him away.
2. TMH was up to nefarious deeds, and Ky became a pawn or payment in her illegal game–because he witnessed, he knew, was of value for payment/retribution. She is notified of the deed; she and DDS ( and another person) try to handle this by rounding up $$ @ their pay points in the greater Hillsboro/Beaverton area ( FM 1,2, Albertsons area, Gym—and who knows where else). They will need to cover lots of area,so there are multiple vehicles involved. Could SI have been a meeting place? A “work” location? A cartel link up?
At any rate, she’s mute now—scared to talk. She has an expensive lawyer, retained with questionable funds. Did he help procure those from a rag that’ll “tell all” after the trial? He would get paid, at least.
So many questions, like threads, to knit our conversations…
Somewhere the truth lies…
Oxymoron? I think not…
As far as the car swap theory at Intel, how could they be sure the same space would be available at Intel when they returned the car? If KH had a specific parking spot, then it could have worked. Anyone know if he has a designated parking spot?
POSSIBLE ASSOCIATE:
http://www.oregonexecutives.com/documents/bulletin081507WSS.pdf
OEA UPDATE Aug. ’07
Jaime Estrada of Clean Factor introduces Attorney Greg Leineweber.
POSSIBLE ASSOCIATES:
People Finders links DeDe Spicher to Angel Gewargis and William Gewargis (This last names seems to have Russian and Iraqi origins.)
http://www.peoplefinders.com/search/searchpreview.aspx?searchtype=people-name&fn=dede&ln=spicher&mn=&city=&state=OR
Here’s something I dug up today ~ Interesting reading.
Children of the Underground ~ underground network that helps people go into hiding. Do a google search for Children of the Underground & Faye Yager & you will get numerous articles both pro & con. The alleged supporters are willing to take huge legal and financial risks to protect those they are helping. However, they have been accused of not doing their homework & inadvertantly hurting the innocent.
Children of the Underground Watch – includes information about people & organizations supporting parents & children who go into hiding to flee an abusive situation. Don’t know how legitimate it is, represents the parent left behind.
http://underwatch.wordpress.com/
Time magazine article featuring Faye Yager who supposedly runs one underground network, Children of the Underground.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,988313-1,00.html
Journalistic essay on Children of the Undergraound & Fate Yager originally published in 1997.
http://dartcenter.org/content/children-underground
Still trying to find up to date info on the groups activities.
I’m just full of more thoughts today, feel like a hamster on one of those little wheels again. Every single post on this page has got my brain zipping along, such good stuff!
Here is a question for everyone: How do we know we HAVEN’T figured this out? With all you smart people here and all the hours and ideas and research put in? Seriously. It’s not like Blink is going to say “Yep, that’s who did it”. She would never tell us anything that might jeopardize an investigation, nor would she post anything that might be important to the case before discussing it with LE. I’m sure Blink knows lots of things that she can’t share here, that’s the way it must be. I hope I’ m making sense and you know what I’m attempting to say. Blink, please correct me if I’ve misspoken.
More questions:
Why hasn’t MC been before the GJ? Blink asked this awhile ago, and I just don’t know much about these things. All I’ve come up with is this:
Ordinarily, potential defendants do not appear before the grand jury as witnesses.
Generally the Prosecutor will arrange to have witnesses available to appear before the grand jury and ordinarily only witnesses for the State will be called to testify.
Well, I still don’t know what to think …anyone?
Has AS-S been deported or not? Someone please tell me he HAS and is adios, bye bye, go away!
Where the heck is RS? In jail, protective custody, free but hiding somewhere? I would have thought he would be in jail if it weren’t for the picture of him that Blink posted, walking down the street with no police escort or handcuffs, etc. How is that possible if he is involved?! Lea, help!
IF DDS is involved what is her motive? See “lyla says” and “Amy’s sister says” below.
IF Elsy helped in Ky’s abduction or is hiding him, why? Revenge? Fear? Forced to do so?
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29.lyla says:
November 25, 2010 at 7:10 pm
What motive would DDS have to want to involve herself in the disposal of her friend’s step-son. If she was involved it was “unwittingly”. JMO
@lyla- THAT is a key question, IMHO.
Sexual motivation? We’ve discussed this before here as a possibility but how would we know for sure? I’ve pondered if DDS had a crush on TH, more than a crush, an infatuation, and would do anything for her. Maybe TH convinced DDS that she needed to remove Ky for his safety and DDS agreed to help (for me this thought also includes the possible help of nameless with ties to an orphanage in Mexico).
Or as Lyla says, was it unwittingly?
Or as Amy’s sister says, was it due to criminal activity?
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27.Rose says:
November 25, 2010 at 6:18 pm
If a second white truck drove him away (thus “setting up” TH as abductor if she was not a co-planner), t’was not a random vehicle choice nor parking location (planner also knew the school). planner knew the Hormans and what she’d drive that day to take a matching vehicle. Who knew she’d use white truck for sci fair Thurs/Fri?
@Rose- IMO someone that was watching her.
38.Rose says:
November 26, 2010 at 8:52 am
If Terri was planner or co-planner, why have the abduction vehicle be a copy of her truck? Or why would an allied confederate chose the same vehicle? They should want to direct suspicion from her by using something as different from her white truck, or red car, as possible.
@Rose- Excellent point! I can honestly say I never thought of that, duh!
It it so logical and makes perfect sense.
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45.Amy’s Sister says:
November 26, 2010 at 11:55 am
(snipped)
DeDe had a pretty cute little condo she owned/was buying. Soon after the June 4th event she put the condo on the market and moved in with her parents.
@Amy’s sister- DDS’s condo had been on the market for a long time prior to June 4th. It’s entirely possible that she had it priced too high, or because the competition in this market is and was too fierce it just didn’t sell. By now she may have done a short sale or been foreclosed on. I’ll see if I can find out.
Sigh…I’m with Graceinthehills, back to square one, which happens about every 3-4 days.
lyla says:
November 26, 2010 at 12:22 pm
yup
@ zeus: “The older student had one of the electrical exhibits if I remember correctly. And he said he saw her truck out the window. But now that you mention it-how would he know every vehicle, especially ones not driven daily by family and staff? We know that TH usually drove the mustang, so unless he “saw” her getting into the truck, I don’t know how he would assume a white truck(really common), was TH”s to begin with.”
Yes, besides… Kyron usually rode the bus. So how did the older student know whose truck that was? Why did he notice it?
@em……claw
I am at work in a hurry
thank you for the info
you are great:)
Is it possible that Kyron did NOT have his glasses on at the time he left the school? It seems that Kyron vanished into thin air , but maybe without his glasses, people don’t realize they saw him. He looks like a different child without his glasses.
Also, I’ll reiterate the point that’s been made many times before: Without his glasses, Kyron might not recognize the difference between his family’s truck and a similar truck.
One more comment and then it’s time to pull the leftovers out of the oven….
If someone were planning to abduct a child from a school, it seems they would want to decrease their visibility as much as possible. Parking your vehicle close to the school would seem preferable to parking it far away from the school. The farther the vehicle, the more opportunity for people to see you leaving with the child.
I would guess the most discreet place for the vehicle would be close to a door and in the back of the school.
follow up to Children of the Underground ~ Parental kidnapping.
http://www.sharedparentinginc.org/rubensteincase.html
Includes details of a particular case involving Children of the Underground – states that Faye Yager is no longer active.
@44.lyla – or next door neighbors, also attending the sci fair.
http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/angel-gewargis/19/153/1A0
I might have missed someone else mentioning this. It’s something I never knew until this morning.
Fred Meyer stores have one-hour childcare centers/playrooms for shoppers to use.
On a Facebook page that discusses Terri Horman, one person mentions the idea that Terri was going to pick up Kiara at the nearest FM store — that an accomplice was babysitting Kiara, and this was to keep the baby out of the school. And that TH drove to the wrong store to meet up with her accomplice and Kiara.
Weird idea or not weird at all. Anything is possible and nothing is making a bit of sense to me anymore.
“…Skyline seventh-grader Tyler Kessinger, whose science fair project was on antimatter. [beejay asks: this does not sound like an electrical exhibit, does it?] He said investigators came back to interview him last week at his home.
“I just saw him (Kyron) in the gym, and I saw the truck out in the parking lot,” he said Wednesday. Kessinger said Kyron was looking at other students’ science fair projects, seemed happy and was with friends.
He said when he saw Kyron in the gym he didn’t see Terri Horman with him. He and his family have turned over pictures they took at the science fair to investigators, but they’ve been asked not to disclose the timeframe in which he saw Kyron.”
link:
http://www.katu.com/news/local/98434609.html
____________
Tyler said “the” white truck. The Hormans or just a similar white truck? Did TK only say the truck was in the parking lot after LE showed him a photo of a white truck? the Horman’s truck?
Remember, TK couldn’t have seen Ky in the gym and a white truck in any parking lot simultaneously because the gym windows are too high for him to have seen out. [Blink discussed this long ago with a poster.]
Time is not given. At least they have photos the Kessingers took.
**************************
@enumclawrose: J Estrada just made the introduction of that lawyer who was making a speech at a meeting. Lawyer has been OEA member 15 yrs.; JE is fairly new. Are you seeing an “Associate” possibility for some reason that I’m missing? What ‘cha got??
I went to lawyer’s website earlier when we were looking at the carpet cleaning. Didn’t see anything odd; maybe I should look again.
I’ve been thinking about Blink’s certainty that Kyron did *not* leave with TH. Blink’s statement is definitive–Kyron did not leave with TH–and that means to me that Blink is pretty darned sure (like 100% sure). And if Blink is that sure, then that means LE and Blink’s source must be that certain as well. (Blink, please correct me if I’ve assumed that your statement was definitive when it was not.)
SO this would mean that there’s either some kind of definitive proof or a credible witness (at least one) who saw TH leave without Kyron, *and* who saw Kyron leave with someone else. If the witness only saw TH leave without Kyron, then Blink/LE couldn’t be sure that Kyron wasn’t already in the truck, hidden or incapacitated, and Blink/LE couldn’t be certain that Kyron didn’t leave and meet TH in the truck after TH left (eg: TH left and then pulled the truck around to a different location and Kyron went to meet her there on her instructions). The only way to be completely certain that Kyron did NOT leave with TH is to know that he left with someone else. And unless that someone else is talking, then there must be a witness. And that would be excellent news.
@3.salbelle says:
November 26, 2010 at 2:49 pm
As far as the car swap theory at Intel, how could they be sure the same space would be available at Intel when they returned the car? If KH had a specific parking spot, then it could have worked. Anyone know if he has a designated parking spot?
——–
Parkng sppots are not assigned at Intel from the times I have been there to meet employees for washington cty freecycle and when my hubby worked there at a contractor.
puzzled says:
November 26, 2010 at 4:50 pm
lyla says:
November 26, 2010 at 12:22 pm
yup
_____________________________________________________
So then Ky is alive. By this scenario his dad stashed him, or had him stashed to frame TH. Or does he go beyond stashing? I might understand how this could happen, assuming the motive is against TH, but why make Ky pay? I get the logistics, by explain the emotional angle, please.
@Idahogal: Now that we know there’s some highly questionable aspects to Cook’s cellphone manuvers, that may well be why he wasn’t at the Grand Jury.
Yes! One or more of the Hormans was being watched. At some point. Certainly shortly just before Ky’s disappearance.
AS-S might be awaiting “repatriation” for a LONG time. The process is very slow. Mexico esp. doesn’t want their citizens back right now, and our “repatriation centers” are filling up with longterm detainees. Besides, don’t we think he’s being held there till the Ky and maybe other concurrent investigations have progressed and his testimony and/or involvement in one or both of those is clarified? Might be.
Remain calm and carry on.
@16.NelMel says:
November 26, 2010 at 6:10 pm
I might have missed someone else mentioning this. It’s something I never knew until this morning.
Fred Meyer stores have one-hour childcare centers/playrooms for shoppers to use.
On a Facebook page that discusses Terri Horman, one person mentions the idea that Terri was going to pick up Kiara at the nearest FM store — that an accomplice was babysitting Kiara, and this was to keep the baby out of the school. And that TH drove to the wrong store to meet up with her accomplice and Kiara.
Weird idea or not weird at all. Anything is possible and nothing is making a bit of sense to me anymore.
———-
I use to use FM Childcare several years ago. I don’t believe that they would have taken Kiara for the free childcare. Kids have to be potty trained to use the daycare.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/98434609.html
After reading this article I wonder what did Kyron know that would cause him to sob, wanting to stay with his mother? What did Terri say to him, do to him? How was he threatened that he didn’t speak. He must have been very afraid because in my experience little children will speak what is on their mind….
Jackie Bauer
says:
November 26, 2010 at 7:01 pm
“I’ve been thinking about Blink’s certainty that Kyron did *not* leave with TH. Blink’s statement is definitive–Kyron did not leave with TH–and that means to me that Blink is pretty darned sure (like 100% sure). And if Blink is that sure, then that means LE and Blink’s source must be that certain as well. (Blink, please correct me if I’ve assumed that your statement was definitive when it was not.)
SO this would mean that there’s either some kind of definitive proof or a credible witness (at least one) who saw TH leave without Kyron, *and* who saw Kyron leave with someone else. If the witness only saw TH leave without Kyron, then Blink/LE couldn’t be sure that Kyron wasn’t already in the truck, hidden or incapacitated, and Blink/LE couldn’t be certain that Kyron didn’t leave and meet TH in the truck after TH left (eg: TH left and then pulled the truck around to a different location and Kyron went to meet her there on her instructions). The only way to be completely certain that Kyron did NOT leave with TH is to know that he left with someone else. And unless that someone else is talking, then there must be a witness. And that would be excellent news.”
Jackie, I’ve had identical thoughts. I’m pretty confident it would be near impossible for someone on the ground to see a small child in that truck. That makes me believe that the witness must have seen Terri either leave the school building or get in the truck and pull away. To me, Terri seen leaving the school building without Kyron does not equate into Kyron did not leave with Terri.
If it was known that Kyron left with someone else, surely LE would say, “Kyron was seen leaving with a male/female in a so and so car, etc.” I don’t believe for a minute that LE has a witness who saw Kyron get into a vehicle and leave Skyline School parking lot and has kept that information a secret.
3.salbelle says:
November 26, 2010 at 2:49 pm
As far as the car swap theory at Intel, how could they be sure the same space would be available at Intel when they returned the car? If KH had a specific parking spot, then it could have worked. Anyone know if he has a designated parking spot?
*******
Although I do not go along with the this idea, one could rent a red mustang and switch license plates. No car would need be taken. Who looks at the plates when you take a car to work.
In Blink and others saying that Kyron did not leave with Terri, does that mean he didn’t leave the building with her or that he didn’t leave the school grounds with her? I believe it’s possible he was directed to go to the truck, therefore he didn’t leave with her per say and nobody would’ve noticed anything odd.
Re: two white trucks… could it actually be coincidental and not ultimately important? It seems that when we try and figure out the geographics of two identical trucks, we come up more baffled than before. It also seems like NW Portland has more than its share of white trucks. I’ve actually started looking for them here in L.A. lol! Seems like here they mostly belong to construction workers and (sigh) gardeners.
I think, knowing human behavior, the more people involved in something, the less chance of secrecy. That’s why I keep coming back to Terri and either one accomplice or Terri solo.
One other thought, did the emails from Terri expressing hatred for Ky just get discovered or have they been known by LE for awhile? They seemed to have really changed the energy of the entire case.
@Amy’s sister- DDS’s condo had been on the market for a long time prior to June 4th. It’s entirely possible that she had it priced too high, or because the competition in this market is and was too fierce it just didn’t sell. By now she may have done a short sale or been foreclosed on. I’ll see if I can find out.
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@Idahogal: Ooohhhh… that’s right. I should have verified before posting. Thanks for the correction.
@ beejay: “…Skyline seventh-grader Tyler Kessinger, whose science fair project was on antimatter. [beejay asks: this does not sound like an electrical exhibit, does it?]”
Actually, it does. This could have been the cool electric one. In the gym/auditorium.
lyla says:
November 26, 2010 at 12:22 pm
24.Rose says:
November 25, 2010 at 6:18 pm
If a second white truck drove him away (thus “setting up” TH as abductor if she was not a co-planner), t’was not a random vehicle choice nor parking location (planner also knew the school). planner knew the Hormans and what she’d drive that day to take a matching vehicle. Who knew she’d use white truck for sci fair Thurs/Fri?
—————————————-
Kaine….
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Maybe someone who was at the school Thursday night when she took the project to the school, so it could be viewed the next morning. TH may have mentioned that she was going to drive the truck the next day to pick up the project, or maybe someone thought since she used the truck to take the project to the school, then she would also use the truck to pick up the project on Friday. That would suggest that at least one person involved in Kyrons kidnapping, was also affiliated with the school.
@Jackie…I’m following your logic regarding how Kyron left the school (Nov 26, 7:01 pm)
There is a way to be fairly certain he did not leave with Terri Horman. If there is evidence that she was somewhere else at the same time that evidence confirms Kryon was still at the school, then the assumption can be made that he did not leave the school with her.
This does not preclude her involvement or the possibility that Terri had knowledge of his abduction.
16.NelMel says:
November 26, 2010 at 6:10 pm
I might have missed someone else mentioning this. It’s something I never knew until this morning.
Fred Meyer stores have one-hour childcare centers/playrooms for shoppers to use.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NelMel, thanks for the very interesting information you have provided regarding FM stores. Wow. When Kyrons’ story first broke, I distinctly recall reading somewhere that TMH’s mom told a reporter that TMH left Kiara with a babysitter while TMH and Ky went to the SF. I think this will ultimately be shown to be true. I am just amazed that FM’s have one hour babysitting service areas….how very convenient. Like you said, TMH could have picked Kiara up at the FM later, just in time to be seen by AL. This plan would have allowed TMH have her hands free for the time she was with Kyron. Hmmmm….and MOO.
It may mean nothing; it may mean everything.
Another thing about Tyler “knowing” that TMH had the white truck that day. I do find that strange. Why would a seventh grader suddenly notice that TMH drove the white truck instead of the red mustang, unless he saw her drive up with Kyron that morning. There is so much more to this story, and I have no doubt that LE knows many, many more details.
I certainly do not want LE to compromise the integrity of the investigation, but wouldn’t it be nice to have just a few more details? The fact that they have “asked” certain witnesses not to common on exactly when they saw Kyron, makes me think all the sightings by his peers were before TMH left the school.
oops, common=comment
Sorry, I’m a little holiday-ed out!
My previous posts concerning Children of the Underground was in reference to the possibility that has been raised here many times – that TH may have arranged to have Kyron “rescued” by an underground group she convinced he was in danger. Apparently, these groups are active throughout the country & do cross international borders. According to the literature I sited in my last post, they have been known to send children through the underground without a parent to escort them, they’ve also been known to take action on one parent’s word alone. Google “Children of the Underground” or “Children’s Underground”, also “Faye Yager”.
1.mosaic says:
November 26, 2010 at 2:31 pm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mosaic, you have brought out some very interesting questions about the SF project. Kudos to you! When I first saw it, I felt it was TMH’s “project” in every sense. A typical case of a mom wanting to win at any cost. Perhaps. There was another project that was photographed around that time that was clearly designed and executed by a child of Ky’s age, and had an amateurish look. Needless to say, that little project couldn’t hold a candle to Ky’s, but at least it was his.
IMO, Moms/Stepmom’s with narcissitic traits live through–even feed off–their children’s successes, and experience their children’s failures in a way most “normal” moms cannot begin to comprehend. Throw a little rage in there and you have a very toxic childhood environment. In other words, everything is about MOM.
Why would she commit her energy to such a project if she was planning to harm him? Why wouldn’t she? She seemed to be very invested in promoting herself as the doting, engaged stepmom, and quintessential teacher, to boot. Heck, in a sense, she may have been promoting Ky’s perfect project as part of HER resume. IF she was involved in taking Ky, she would want everyone at that school to think she was incapable of harming him…I mean, if you take things at face value, who but a loving mom puts ALL that time and energy into helping her beloved stepson with his project? I think this was the image she wanted to portray. Taking the the picture of his smiling face, then showing it to AL was the icing on the cake. After hearing about the email in which she allegedly said she hated Kyron and wanted to hurt him, I would bet she resented every single moment she spent on it.
Just me MOO-ing. Whatever helps bring Kyron home is fair game in my opinion.
Hope all of you are having a pleasant holiday weekend. I know Ky is on everyone’s mind. God bless that child, and may the angels keep him warm.
Beejay, Just looking for associates. There are two other sites where RS’s brother Jaime and Greg Leineweber are professionally linked.
http://www.robertanopson.com/localpartners.html
http://www.ieaweb.com/index.php?p=2_9_CHAPTER-MEMBERS&id=41
http://www.yellowpages.com/portland-or/mip/furniss-shearer-leineweber-454130070
Our firm specializes in personal injury litigation and workers compensation matters. However, our firm also has extensive experience in most other general practice areas, including wills and trusts, criminal matters, and general litigation.
There is at least on east coast sex crime that could be related, however, too early to confirm. First and last name correct, age correct, middle initial not sure. That’s all I got.
Malty says:
November 26, 2010 at 5:12 pm
you are great
think we can figure this out?
WHOA!! After reading:
(snipped)**45.lyla says:
November 26, 2010 at 12:22 pm
24.Rose says:
November 25, 2010 at 6:18 pm
If a second white truck drove him away (thus “setting up” TH as abductor if she was not a co-planner), t’was not a random vehicle choice nor parking location (planner also knew the school). planner knew the Hormans and what she’d drive that day to take a matching vehicle. Who knew she’d use white truck for sci fair Thurs/Fri?
—————————————-
Kaine….** (snipped)
I’m having one of those ‘O..M..G moments!’ Absolutely, Kaine knew Terri would be driving the white truck. So consider this scenario~
Someone familiar and a person Kyron would trust, drives their white truck to the school. Somehow, this person is able to get Kyron inside said truck. With Kyron in tow, this person drives to SI, where they meet Kaine, in the red mustang~thus the said reports of red mustang and white truck seen speeding on SI. Does anyone recall what the timeline of the speeding incident was? I’ll look for it, for sure! Person in white truck could have entertained Kyron until time to meet Kaine in the mustang. Met up with Kaine, where Kyron then gets in car with Kaine. Then, Kaine took Kyron where? The airport? A hand off to yet another friend or family member, who’d then take Kyron into hiding or to the airport? Boy~my wheels are a spinning more than ever now!
Also, to clear a few things mentioned here. Terri and DeDe did indeed meet at a gym, when they lived in close proximity to each other. After The Horman’s moved to current home, DeDe did not see them again until Terri’s 40th b-day party. The next time DeDe and Terri saw each other, was when DeDe went to stay with Terri in June, right after Kaine moved out. I truly do not believe any theory pertaining to DeDe having some crazed ‘infatuation’ for Terri. No way! She is simply the type of friend who is 100% loyal, who wears her heart on her sleeve. I also do not believe, that DeDe had anything to do with this case, other than being a caring, supportive friend. I do not believe DeDe knew RS before she met Terri. Something most people are not aware of is, DeDe has actually only been involved in gardening projects, other than her own little patio garden, for a very short time.
Also, DeDe’s condo is still on the market~has not been forclosed upon. She is indeed living in the Klamath Falls area, with her parents and is looking forward to becoming reconnected with family and friends there.
Reports have 2 Greg Leinewebers 4-5 years apart. One east coast, one west coast, the east coast one is the perv. Not our guy.
No body really needed to off Kyron to make Kaine’s
life H
just send him away
if revenge was the motive
but 2 dumb women could have picked a real
bad choise for the job
maybe they even planned to be heros and
bring Kyron back
to late now
stranger stuff has happened
sabelle and tbz, yes, parking spots are unassigned, as was determined early in our investigation.
However, the workforce is fairly stable in the morning hours and a parking spot could be still available. Not that you could count on that, however.
Just a thought, and I apologize if this was brought up earlier on this site.
Perhaps the reason LE keeps stating TH was the last one to see Kyron is they were able to substantiate that the student (who claims to have seen Kyron after TH left) arrived on time for class when the groups began to form at 8:45 a.m. TH claims she left Kyron in the hallway at 8:45 a.m. Unless this student was late to class, therefore, he could not have seen Kyron after TH said she left the school.
Kyron: “I’m going to go see this cool one. It’s electric.”
That’s what TP said Kyron said to him. Who knows how accurate it is though.
********************
Examples of anti-matter that have to do with electricity:
* antimatter in lightning.
* magnetic field and electric fields to hold charged particles in a vacuum
* MATTER + ANTIMATTER = LIGHT
* ELECTRON + POSITRON = TWO PHOTONS
Simply put, antimatter is a fundamental particle of regular matter with its electrical charge reversed. The common proton has an antimatter counterpart called the antiproton. It has the same mass but an opposite charge. The electron’s counterpart is called a positron.
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I think this could count as the “cool electric one” depending on what TK actually did his project on and whether Kyron actually said that statement to TP..
Off-subject, just an FYI …
Please be vigilant all you Portland/Oregon locals here … this is scary had it been able to have been pulled off. Happy Holidays to all the Blinksters.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/11/27/feds-somali-born-teen-plotted-car-bombing-ore/
http://www.portlandmercury.com/portland/Content?oid=31856&category=23483
18thcomment-a sicko wrote this but the hinkymeter timeline mentions a “Chas” seeing a redheaded woman in a white truck coming off this road on to Hwy 30 right in front of him. Have the LE been out there to check that road?
Prayers today and everyday for sweet Kyron. Where are you sweetheart? Where is Kyron???????
I just realized James legal name should have been the same as the
guy who was paying support not Horman
@enumclawrose: Thanks! The first link appears to be another business registry service; several of the same members of OEA are on here as well (I didn’t check them all). So, not too excited about that one.
IIRC, the Portland OEA chapter is a member of IEA, so that’d account for Jaime and the atty being listed as members on IEA also.
Looking at third one, now. It’s a yellow pages listing for pay. Only the atty’s page came up.
I got nothing on this. Good try. Let us know if you get something I missed here.
When is the last time anyone heard LE say that Terri was the last one to see Ky at school. Got a link?
Best I can recall, it was before the press started putting it out there that a student had seen Ky subsequent to Terri.
And then, LE went quiet. And asked the students and parents not to give out any timeframes (and maybe asked the media as well).
IIRC, we just keep seeing the media repeat their original statement. Anybody want to research MSM for more recent, direct statements by LE? Short of finding those, we can probably remove that “fact” from our thinking.
At least one student, and possibly other persons present on June 4 saw Ky after Terri did. And possibly after Terri is confirmed to have left school without Ky (that fact, from Blink).
That removes another constraint from our thinking.
**************
Re Ky’s sci fair project: Kaine was the one who helped him with it; Terri just laminated it.
@Malty says:
November 27, 2010 at 1:37 pm
“I just realized James legal name should have been the same as the
guy who was paying support not Horman”
IIRC, J’s surname was changed to ‘Moulton’. Now what do you think? (wish I could do that one-eyebrow-up trick here..)
‘Ecker’s parents remember James as being a curious and lively child. Horman legally changed his last name from Ecker to Moulton in January this year.’
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html
(Ecker is the one paying the child support/adoptive dad/husband #2)
@FrannieT: Of course! How easy it is to overlook the obvious when you’re looking for something else. Kaine would have known which vehicle Terri would be driving on June 4.
For that matter, freeing up the brain cells some, how do we know that Terri asked to drive the truck? Kaine told us. Any other source? I want independent confirmation. After that hinky cell phone business of his with Cook, I don’t trust Kaine.