West Memphis Three: Damien Echols Jessie Miskelley and Jason Baldwin Released
Jonesboro, AR- In a statement released Thursday, new judge David N. Laser announced an unscheduled hearing in the case of The West Memphis Three.
Damien Echols, Charles “Jason” Baldwin and Jessie Misskelley have been incarcerated for 18 years for the murders of Stevie Branch, Michael Moore, and Chris Byers.
Speaking on the condition of anonymity to www.blinkoncrime.com, a source connected to the West Memphis Police Department has confirmed that Damien Echols and Jason Baldwin have already been released from the Arkansas Department of Corrections; Misskelley has not.
Echols, Baldwin and Misskelley, along with their families, and the families of the victims, are expected to attend today’s hearing.
Check back to www.blinkoncrime.com for this developing story.
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Listen to Blink Tonight at 9 PM on the Dana Pretzer Show on Scared Monkeys Radio Discussing the West Memphis Three Case & Robyn Gardner Missing in Aruba
http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/08/23/listen-to-blink-tonight-at-9-pm-on-the-dana-pretzer-show-on-scared-monkeys-radio-discussing-the-west-memphis-three-case-robyn-gardner-missing-in-aruba/
@Lisa, I must have missed something. Why is whether or not the boys could tie their own shoe important? Forgive me if I missed something, you guys are too smart for me (o:
Lizzy
Your thoughts about mosquitos biting some people and not others is usually because there is a low level of vitamine B1. If you want to have mosquitos and ticks leave you alone, take some extra amounts of B1. Also if you can stand it, take some sulphur pills.
As a lad in the 1930′s I had a terrible case of tonsillitis with infection so bad the doctors worried if I would live. The Sulphur based drugs were under development and they gave me every one of them that would possibly cure the infection. The result was that ticks and mosquitos did not bother me until I was forty years old. The B1 trick works and I got that one from a veterinarian friend.
You and your daughter are what I call “sweet meat”. The bugs like you. My wife has a similar problem. LOL
Arkanas has some big black mosquitos that will bite in the daytime, particularly in the early morning and late afternoon. I know this from personal experience.
ATG- you are going to get clobbered if I post that comment, lol.
Not that I disagree with it, lemme know if you want it posted anyway.
It is so interesting how different generations evolve, I have stories, lol.
did people actually swim in that drainage ditch?
Blink thank you for your reply.
1.Stephanie says:
August 23, 2011 at 8:42 pm
Stephanie, I am really just thinking outloud. Trying to figure out how Hobbs hair got tangled in that shoe string.(if maybe Hobbs tied the shoe for him??? idk)
The part of this case that absolutely baffles me is why there was no blood evidence on the banks of the crime scene. That, more than anything, makes no sense to me. The only reason I can come up with is that every single assault was done in the water. And, really – is that even possible?
Blink, can you please elaborate why you think that was?
Coming at ya today, late afternoon, but that is a common misconception, there was evidence of blood, lots of it, the jury just never was allowed to hear it.
B
Blink said:
Coming at ya today, late afternoon, but that is a common misconception, there was evidence of blood, lots of it, the jury just never was allowed to hear it.
B
______________________________________________________________________
Well – if that is the case – this plea makes even LESS sense to me. This whole case was nothing but a gigantic mess.
teri, i wondered about that to, i think because the bodies were still leaking blood when they were pulled from the water and placed on the bank,it rendered any blood on the bank before that useless.
Blink,
I have to admit that I had to Google the West Memphis Three to get a quick summary of this story on Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Memphis_Three
In reading through the Wiki article, I have to admit, I got chills when I read this part under Documentaries, publications and studies:
“The movie marked the first time Metallica allowed their music to be used in a movie and drew attention to the cases”.
This quote right after analysis from John E. Douglas:
“John E. Douglas, a former longtime FBI agent who has interviewed the country’s most prolific serial killers during his years with the FBI and works as a profiler to help police in their searches for violent criminals, said the slayings of the three West Memphis boys weren’t the work of three unsophisticated teenage killers, but that of a single person who set out to taunt and “punish” the victims.[58] Douglas was formerly FBI Unit Chief of the Investigative Support Unit of the National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime for 25 years. Douglas stated in his report for Echols’ legal team that there was no evidence for Satanic ritual involvement in the killings and agreed with the post-mortem animal predation explanation for the alleged knife injuries. Douglas believed that the perpetrator had a violent history and was familiar with the victims and geography. He stated that the victims had died from a combination of blunt force trauma wounds and drowning in a personal cause driven crime.”
—————————-
How similar to Morgan Harrington’s perp profile and that she disappeared from a Metallica concert.
None whatsoever, and I am a huge fan of John’s, but for the first time, we ended up disagreeing to these findings. To his defense, I do believe the folks we consulted on the ice axe as to the probability of it’s use would sway his opinion. Nobody is 100% when it comes to cold cases, imo.
B
I wonder if John Douglas would consider studying Morgan’s case.
John’s policy is to only work in cases where he is assisted by LE, with the case sensitive information he needs to form a profile. There is no doubt in my mind that VSP would never allow that.
B
B- I know y’all had an earthquake and all, but you are straight wearin me out!! Ive checked here 80 times in the past few days looking for the new installment!
lol
Come on!
<3 you!
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/west-memphis-three-freed-HBO-documentary-225420
Looks like another Paradise Lost sequel is coming.
Echols made the creepiest statement and should only be reserved for the murdered boys!
‘These ‘people’ would have murdered me, swept this under the rug and I’d wouldn’t be anything but a memory right now’.
A guilty conscience? Regardless, a bold statement to make when this is pretty much how the scouts legacies ended up. Murdered. Swept under a rug. All that’s left are memories. Thank you for stating the obvious, Echols.
Hello Blink and all–
This week is back to school week at my house- so I have been extra busy-. I have been able to keep up on reading, just not able to post.
Blink- thanks for your response- youre- the best.
I havent made up my mind either way…. Like I said I am just giving different perspectives on some of yours, and others way of thinking-or different alternatives that may aid up to innocence not guilt. Hope you understand.
Ragdoll Susanm- thanks for the kindness.
xara- and Bam- cbickel and others in disagreement – thanks for speaking up, I know it isnt always easy to share a differing opinion.
xara- Thanks for the manhole- site- I went there- havent read a whole lot- but that theory-of the sewers is very interesting- I do not understand why it implicates Hobbs though… Heres a point that stuck with me- the pattern markings that could be from rebar.
I saw that- and I right now, I agree that those markings were made from rebar. When I have more time I will research further, and bring over some of the stuff that I think needs to be looked at more, if Blink is agreeable.
On Jesses IQ- It was my understanding that he had a long record of schooling ect that definitively marked his IQ- ect as 72.
However, there are alot of kids that are borderline, that make it through the cracks. I would think it would have been harder for him to escape labeling/testing ect though, seeing as his brother was severely mentally “retarded”- and was placed into a care facility- I would think Jesse would have been tested early on.
Blink you said you dont “believe” he was borderline ect- is there no other record of this disability, other than the defenses claim?
For me, regardless, I think the confessions do not prove a thing one way or another…. and even if I agreed that Jesse knew details that no one else could know,(I dont) I still KNOW that he lied- and that his pointing the finger at the other two, is not sufficient evidence of their involvement. JMO
What I am seeing here on this site, is exactly why I understand why both the defense and the prosecution opted for an alford plea to end this judicially.
A case can not be un-f—-ed – and there were many many instances of mishandleing ect. AND Cases are one and lost with the choice of a jury. With The first jury, it is clear, the foreman fought hard for a guilty verdict- and may have fought dirty- Is it true he was in contact with the prosecution?
Perhaps this time around the jury foreman would have been more sympathetic to the defenses stance-
Cases are won or lost in the picking of a jury…
I wholeheartedly believe this now. Each of us here, are actinbg as a jury of sorts- and each of us tend to look at a certain “fact” or “witness” statement or piece of evidence ect differently- and we all come away with different perspectives.
If I were on the jury, knowing what I know right now, I would not have enough evidence to prove guilt. Others, it seem view this same evidence and clearly think – yep they are guilty, and most likely would vote that way-
So if we were on the jury- then the result- would have been a hung jury.
I am looking forward to your next piece Blink and I am also looking forward to a time when I can listen to the podcaste. I will weigh the totality of the evidence. Until then, I have not been swayed to come into port yet.
AJMO
Mom 3.0- we start later here, but I hear your pain, kids in pre-season practice for 2 weeks now.
I preface this by saying I am under the weather, as in, I might welcome more bad weather ( as it is coming anyway) to feel better than I do right now as a a distraction. ok, done with my ill-drama-chronicle.
There are no exhibits or available records indicating Jesse had the “IQ” prior to the defense testing in support. I also not that not a single person statement, of all that knew him, ever made such an observation.
To me, that is huge. Most especially when you have folks that wanted him discredited. They had no ammo to do so until this “test”.
There is NO question your point is well taken about the “jury” and reasonable doubt.
That said, we also have to take into consideration the letter of the law, and it’s obligation, should we be sitting on an Arkansas jury in this case. Similar to the Cword, but different, lol, AR Supreme court is FINITE in it’s charge to a jury about circumstantial evidence, direct, and physical evidence, as I referenced during the interview. In fact, I dare say that they have one of the better written instructions on the issue, which I will discuss in Part 3.
I admit this case is as legally challenging as it is emotionally vacuous.
B
jie- I saw that same video- and what i saw was a young man that has been subjected to a great many things in prison and still, this young man is holding strong to the only thing he ever called his own- his identity.
I believe any metal head past or present- would understand what this guy was talking about in that video- and IMO he was commenting on his refusal to conform.
Which it would seem is the only thing at that time he felthe was guilty of- not conforming.
AJMO
Teri
If you read Jessie Miskelly’s confessions he talks about blood on the ground and in the grass. I don’t know why or how this information was kept from the jury.
Some of the major problems in this case are across police work and investigation and then the trials themselves.
Coming at ya today, late afternoon, but that is a common misconception, there was evidence of blood, lots of it, the jury just never was allowed to hear it.
B
I am looking forward to reading this article of yours Blink! So far everything that I’ve read leads me to believe that those precious boys were murdered somewhere then submerged/dumped in the water. I’ve read about the manhole theory, what’s your take on that…or is that going to be addressed in your article?
I am going to provide a link, but respectfully, that theory is ridiculous.
These boys died in minutes, with the exception of Byers who bled out quickly, but Stevie and Michael died from their already fatal head wounds, combined with drowning, the ligatures do not produce any evidence whatsoever they were carried that way, it is just really this simple.
B
B
First post, long time lurking on BOC and scaredmonkeys….
were all the three scouts clothes/shoes accounted for?
even their underwear?
were all the clothes/shoes found in the water?
was the ice ax ever found?
Thank YOU for all you do.
Shoes yes.
There are 2 pair of scibs (Jersey term) and 5 socks that were not recovered, keep in mind this ditch flows into the 10 mile bayou and the only sock found was in a shoe still, and the scibs were in a pair of pants.
The ice axe was located as a result of a call to WMPD by Billy Newell when he returned from his out of town work. It was tested for prints and blood, to my knowledge no further trace, and was negative.
It was never evaluated as a possible source to wounds inflicted, 16 experts later.
B
Blink
I am sorry that you are not feeling well. I thought Danas’ remark about the Niquil was just a fun inside joke comment.
Don’t post the comment. It may be a little too insensitive although it was only intended in fun. I tease my wife all the time about things similar.
I agree with your reply to cbickel. IMO Jessie could never really face the horrible truth in any of his confessions. Being drunk only masked the reality a little. Jessie was not as handicapped mentaly as most think. He was able to work from time to time.
Jessie did say in one confession that the boys were beaten with sticks, but the photo evidence indicates that it would take a stick made from maple or hickory that had been well cured. This only leaves the ice axe as something referred to as a stick.
I responded and posted it, you were absolutely fair and sound.
The circular based wounds in general and specifically, coupled with the wound evidence, will never allow me to believe it was any other implement.
B
been reading the autopsies of all three victims and jessie knew exact ly,he is spot on,june 3rd. y’all sayin that he heard the town rumors about byers castration and that’s how he knew? well how did he know that steve branch — was next in line for the castration?—-michael moore ran when they started on stevie,and they didnt finish.in jessie’s confession june 3rd Gitchell: Which, which boys were raped?
Jessie: Uh, Byers and the Branch. Gitchell: Did anyone have oral sex with the boys?
Jessie: Yes, Damien and Jason.
Gitchell: How many of them did they do that to?
Jessie: Just two, Branch and Byers.
from stevie’s autopsy :The penis showed injuries consisting of segmental intense hyperemia involving the mid shaft, glans and head of the penis with overlying very fine scratches.
also the mandible’s do have scratches and marks according to the autopsies.
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/autsb.html http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/autcb.html http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/autmm.html all three autopsy’s
@ Ragdoll you are amazing. thank you. You put a much needed smile on my face.
The following is from Stidman’s synopsis:
Background: Jessie Misskelley, Jr. was just four years old when his mother abandoned him, leaving him and his severely retarded brother in the care of Jessie Sr. According to Jessie’s family, Jessie’s brother was later institutionalized and Jessie Jr. was diagnosed himself as being retarded. Doctor’s recommended that Jessie Jr. receive special education and family counseling, but this was never done.
I wonder who diagnosed Jessie Misskelley or if this statement is a blantant lie? Seems to me there would have to be a record somewhere on that.
Mom…I am looking forward to seeing what you can find, the rebar is very concievable to me as the culprit that left impressions on one of the victims.
There has been some conversation about the density of the wooded area where these boys were found, I’ve seen an areial shot of these woods, I grew up around woods as well and IMO the woods those boys were found in really isn’t all that big and should have been easily negotiated by locals. (Of course I grew up in Kentucky, we have some pretty big woods so maybe that’s why these woods don’t look like that big of deal) That somebody else could have been in those woods trackin’ those boys or following them doesn’t sound impossible to me. A family memember could have easily known where the boys congregated back there.
Blink hope you feel better soon!
Totally out of left field, but here goes (the ‘life coach’ assigned to me in my MBA program is making me write down my dreams…so here goes) …last night (this morning) I had a “Blink dream.” First occurrence of such a dream that I can recall. I fell asleep w/ the latest BOC article pulled up on my Blackberry, so I had Blink on the brain when I passed out, I guess.
…And that’s when the dream I just woke from, began: …enter Bad Guy, very violent to women and kids, total weirdo, bigger dude and had the black leather grody mask over his face, picture fat guy in s&m-type outfit) Anyway, you/we set him up sort of, and provoked him to attack – as a booby trap, so he would finally get caught in the act. He was one of the characters we see in so many cases who we KNOW are “off” but they’ve just flown under the radar or whatev and haven’t been busted…but with their profile there’s NO way they aren’t up to ‘no good.’ Setting: We were in a residential smaller house in an empty bedroom, pitch black with the door shut – just you, me and the hinky icky scary dude. The whole time, I knew (sensed) YOU knew distinctly exactly what was coming, but I couldn’t stop myself from telling you anyway. But, you weren’t afraid, you were totally stoic and still, just waiting for him to bonk you. He cocked way back with like a mallet or something (not an ax, it was blunt and heavy huge black cylindrical weight on a handle, kinda cartoonishly big when I think about it, actually) and hit you… and then, in my head was a narration of you talking about the pain of getting hit, blood in your mouth, etc. (You actually said “I unplugged my tooth”-as if you had a crown or something in the back that got knocked loose and you had to just pull it out because it hurt so horribly-teeth in dreams…who knows.), but, anyway, I assume the whole thing was set up for some police/fbi dudes to pop in and take care of the guy like in a crime novel…then lights came on (or it was suddenly sunny-there’s some symbolism fer ya) and BG was laying on the ground, conked out or dead. Anyway, the big thing is that I was 100% there with you (except I seemed to fade out when you faded out which I guess was when you were losing consciousness from the blow or whatever), but, like, as a guardian angel, watching everything unfold and talking to you during the incident, giving you tips and pointers-the one part I recall was that I was whispering to you “Mama, behind you. Mama, behind you.” (saying it repeatedly as I could see him cocking back with the weapon to hit you on the head from behind, so you couldn’t actually SEE what he was about to do…it was like watching a horror movie and yelling at the tv kinda)… Side note: Me saying ”Mama” was not like you were MY mother, but like I would say to a girlfriend “Hey, Mama! How’s it going?” So, maybe your guardian angel is/was a Mom, too. Anyway, as we (you) sat there, thinking of getting up and exiting the room since the incident was over (why there weren’t immediately paramedics I have no idea…again, dreams are weird), there was a little knock on the door. It was a little girl (probably 2-3 years old-which is probably a subconscious reflection of my OWN daughter who is that age) and she came in and said something like “you did it!!! You got him!!!” And that’s where I woke up because my daughter in REAL life, who is potty training, wet the bed. Moral of the story: I think you truly have guardian angels watching out for you. They are physically there. I felt I needed to tell you that. (FYI, I’m not one of those ‘guardian angel’ people who is constantly talking about angels being around us or anything, although I do believe it). And the other thing I imparted from my dream is that babies in heaven (and on earth) are watching and are thankful for the work you do, they are rooting for you. I really think that’s what the little girl signified. I didn’t realize this whole guardian angel thing until after I woke up…but although you and I had a sort of comfortable, continual ‘dialogue,’ (like subconscious kind of, but we were fully aware of eachother), the guy wasn’t ever after ME, and never acknowledged me, even though we were in a small like 10×10 room with him–of course, the reason was because I was there, but not THERE (invisible). Sorry if this is out of left field, but I felt I should share it. P.S. Obviously, I don’t think *I’m* your guardian angel-just to be clear. 
It was just crystal clear to me when I woke up what the message was. So, there ya go…FWIW…
Al-
I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to share this. It means a great deal to me, given some of the outcomes in some of these cases lately, I would be lying if I did not admit there are a few days where I welcome that cartoon sized mallet, lol.
I also encourage people to write down their vivid dreams, it is a great exercise, and frankly, tool to better your life, imo.
B
susanm says:
August 24, 2011 at 11:01 pm
been reading the autopsies of all three victims and jessie knew exact ly,he is spot on,june 3rd. y’all sayin that he heard the town rumors about byers castration and that’s how he knew? well how did he know that steve branch — was next in line for the castration?—-michael moore ran when they started on stevie,and they didnt finish.in jessie’s confession june 3rd Gitchell: Which, which boys were raped?
Jessie: Uh, Byers and the Branch. Gitchell: Did anyone have oral sex with the boys?
Jessie: Yes, Damien and Jason.
Gitchell: How many of them did they do that to?
Jessie: Just two, Branch and Byers.
from stevie’s autopsy :The penis showed injuries consisting of segmental intense hyperemia involving the mid shaft, glans and head of the penis with overlying very fine scratches.
also the mandible’s do have scratches and marks according to the autopsies.
_________________________________
Part of Second Confession, same day:
Gitchell: Ok, but did, did anyone go down on the boys and maybe suck theirs or something?
Jessie: Not that, I didn’t see nothing neither one of them do that.
Gitchell: You didn’t see that?
Jessie: Uh, uh
Gitchell: Ok, did, did they pinch their penis in anyway or were rough with it or anything like that?
Jessie: I didn’t see nothing like that, not rough with them, I just seen um
Gitchell: You didn’t see anyone go down on the boys?
Jessie: Uh, uh.
Gitchell: Are you sure?
Jessie: Yeah.
Gitchell: Ok.
Pause Gave Jessie a Coke
————
Gitchell seems to be really pushing here, because Gitchell knows about the second boy’s penis. It’s obvious that Jessie is not giving him the answer he wants.
Now, if you go to his last confession:
DAVIS: What happens next you said you, Damien’s still got the other one, Jason’s got one and you got one. What happens next?
MISSKELLEY: Damien was messing the one little boy’s penis.
CALVIN: Jessie, you need to speak up a little bit.
DAVIS: When you say he was messing with one of the boy’s penis’ what do you mean? What was he doing?
MISSKELLEY: pulling on it.
DAVIS: Ok. Do you remember which boy that was?
MISSKELLEY: No
DAVIS: Ok. Now what happens next, you said that Damien was pullin on one of the boys penis’. What happens next?
MISSKELLEY: We tied’m up.
————-
The story changes again. I personally believe that someone keeps giving Jessie information, and then he adds it to his story.
I also believe that the story was already out, people in the community were talking, rumors were flying, and it was already known that two of the boys’ injuries were worse than the third one.
If the ice axe was used, and Jessie was there, why did he not mention it? It doesn’t look like something that could be hidden very well.
mjh
Because Jessie was chasing down Michael Moore and missed part of it, when he returned with him he was on the steep slope and watching from that angle and their backs were to him. Remember the comment about Jason Baldwin “swinging his knife” at Byers legs?
B
Yes, Blink, the swinging action does stand out.
There are also a few other things in his story that do make it sound like he was possibly there:
When he says he chased one of the boys and brought him back, when he says that he wouldn’t allow Jason to do the same to the boy he was holding/beating (Michael Moore was not as severely beaten/abused as the other two, and was found separate from them), the way he describes how Jason looked at him and showed him the knife, and when he says that one of the boys was still moving when they put him into the water (Knowing that two of the boys drowned makes this part very hard to read, and brings you back to the reality of what happened to these boys).
So, some of the things he says do fit and make you wonder. But, on the other hand, I believe that LE talked to him for a very long time before they taped his confession, and he still didn’t get it right. I also believe most of this information was already known.
This case is very difficult all around, which is why I am paying very close attention to what you are saying. I would like to know the truth, as I’m sure everyone would.
What I am having a problem with right now is the shoe laces. I had convinced myself that this crime was commited by one person, but the shoe laces were tied with different types of knots.
You’ve definitely got me re-thinking.
Thanks,
mjh
And Michael was tied differently than Chris and Stevie. There is also an important thing wrt to Michael’s wounds that Jessie never mentioned that again, support the fact that he did leave after seeing him moving in the water, and ahead of Baldwin and Echols. Hoping to finish at some point today, weather permitting.
B
If anyone is interested…HBO now has PL1 and PL2 available ON DEMAND.
(it is located in the documentaries/feature films section)
Thanks Xara. I recommend if y’all have HBO to watch them, keeping in mind, their is most definitely an editorial slant and some facts are not accurrate.
B
OT
Just a thought…saw an airing of “Star Chamber” last weekend. Really made me ponder the whole, “better to let 10 guilty go free, than to convict one innocent”, as the paradox in Star Chamber is basically, “In order to ensure we punish all the guilty, we must concede innocent people will get punished along the way”. But define “innocent”…
So I have a question for the Blinksters…how many times has a completey innocent person, been convicted for a heinous crime?
Like Joe Public, Mr. perfect guy…? I would venture to say you could count them on one hand, if that…there is always some mitigating factor that got them on the radar to begin with…either prior’s, lying to LE for other reasons thus making themselves seem guilty,…something…I always hear the loved ones saying stuff like, “my son is a gun-toting bank robber, BUT he would NEVER do the things they are accusing him of(rape, murder, etc)…!”
LMAO
Anyhow, I think I have determined I leaning toward being a “Star Chamber” guy…
I also admit that I am a metal-head and grunger, as well as rocker and lover of every kind of music on any given day…
I grew up in a home of meager means when I was a child, but I have never had to live in the kind of conditions these “3″ did, and certainly the parenting issues were like a recipe for disaster for them, and that has not been lost on me. I thank God daily that I grew up in my house, and not theirs…
I love both these paragraphs. Feel the same exact way. Thanks for posting that HBO has the documentaries ON DEMAND, as I was planning on renting them.
Looking forward to the next installment (I’ve been reading everything I can get my hands on…)
To all: The above 2 para’s were a snippet of mine from an earlier post. I think if you have HBO they are not an additional charge.
B
Hi all- lot of great posts- with many ideas flowing-
Here is my take- FWIW
It was reported that Damien did take that prescription- although I do not think his chubbiness at 17-18 necessarily had anything to do with his meds.
As for interacting with beer- yes it would have-but we do not know exactly how it would have, especially in conjunction with other meds he was said to have been on… For all we know it would have made him lethargic- and passive, not excitable and aggressive.
Also, again- Just because Jesse said it in his confession does not make it so.
Jesse says got the whiskey from Vicki- and he says he carried it with him the entire way- he also says it wasnt empty on the way back….
Where did Damien and Jason get the beer? Did they carry it all the way there not drinking any? Where were the cans and or bottles? How were these three drunk teens able to cover their tracks so completely? but then be so obvious when dealing with the community ect?
Every teenager wears a uniform of sorts- Preppies wear their own so do jocks so do others and so on.
A kid wearing black or concert tees or dying their hair ect is not necessarily a cry for help- any more so, than it would be a cry for help -for a jock to cut his hair buzz style and then choose to wear jeans/sweats/shorts and shirts/jackets with team logos.
just for the record- Damien and Jason were not metalheads — they liked a vast array of music- Pink Floyd REM- ect- and Jessie most definately wasnt. Its just easier for us to put the kids in boxes- and label them -then to actually delve deeper into who they were- I am guilty of this too-
IMO Damien and Jason seemed to be alot like Morgan H- She refused to be labeled she refused to fit in a box- they make no apologies for their tastes – they like what they like.
Jason was not in Damien and Jasons group- he was on the fringe at best- he liked wrestling and other stuff. JMO
—-
- – I do not think I and others are necessarily wrong in our opinions regarding Jesses POSSIBLY gathering info for his confession/s from other sources-including LE- He at first denied ever being involved- only app. 45 min of his first confession was tape recorded- what did the police say during that time? what exactly had been reported on the news? What did the crime scene tech and the mob of onlookers say to their families ect? What did the victims families say? He sat thru his trial he heard more- a plus the opening/closing arguments – he would have surely picked up on some pretty important details, right?
Rumors-There was a great deal of talk – from multiple areas- and the police did ask leading questions and they even went so far as to say-okay we are gonna “correct” some things..and then they proceeded to have Jesse clarify/change more of his new statement/s.
IMO there is no way to know how he obtained the info- He lied on so much and he got other info wrong- what is the truth? what is a lie? what is rumor? what is first hand knowledge? what is regurgitation?
So far all I am aware of is speculation. We dont know we just dont know- we can guess- we can speculate- we can offer our opinions but we just dont know.
We all have here been just speculating on what could have happened- why is it so hard to believe that Jesse was doing the same?: someone said maybe the boys walked in on a circle jerk…someone else said maybe they walked in on fencing of stolen goods…. we all have been speculating on the murder weapons and the sequence of events ect ect-
We dont know what happened- we are all speculating-
Imagine all the speculation that was going on at the time of the murders? LE- and the parole officer/s said…hmmm devil worship and ritual killing lets look at Damien Echols-he is into all that stuff and his parole officer says he is capable of committing this crime- the only one that came to his mind… and by association Jason- the town read “mutilation” and naturally their minds jumped to Satanists- Vicki Hutchinson was on a mission to help the police get info on Echols- because she wanted out of her own problems and becuse she believed the rumors- same as everyoneelse-
Her little boy gave several statments the first- naming a fahter of the boys – he gave some information that could be said was inside info- same as Jesse- is it so hard to believe that they heard rumors?
Nothing puts Damien and Jason at the scene of the crime the evidence is lacking- clearly Jesse lied about the cult and the eating dogs and the orgies…so why is it so hard to believe that he lied about Jason and Damiens involvement?
It doesnt take a rocket scientist to formulate a scenario about what happened- anyone who has ever watched the news or watched a horror/slasher movie wouldnt be to far off in their scenario.
Jesse in one confession when asked how they got the boys to stay put – he says (pp) its just like a puppy you hit em- and tell em to stay and they do – not a big stretch of the imagination IMO- BTW I disagree with others that say that these murders had to be committed by 3 people not one- any number of people could have killed these 3 little boys including just one.
There are a myriad of scenarios that are just as plausible as these 3 did it- and they are just as easy to come up with as a manhole theory or a cult theory or a filicide or fratricide theory or a pedo/serial killer theory.
Everything is speculation and based on our perspectives, research ect some are at best educated guesses- I still have not seen evidence that points directly to these 3 having done it- this evidence could point to a thousand other people just as easily.
It all boils down to who is presenting the facts/evidence/case, and which theory they subscribe to- IMO everyone is speculating-
I agree these 3 could have did it- or jesse could have done it- or someoneelse could have- IDK
Respectfully submitted- AJMO
Sorry for the mistakes/typos- in a rush-BBL
B- it really is a great tool. The lady I work with does word association mapping and stuff that is eerily telling. I was seriously annoyed the first time I “had” to meet with her. I’ve never been to therapy/counseling or anything of the sort, so I was somewhat skeptical. But it has really helped me. But besides the subconscious side, I feel dreams sometimes are a God thing (Joseph-styles), like a message from “above.” And that’s why I shared. Keep fighting the good fight.
Miskelley’s February 1994 statement was calm and unrushed. Was he accurate about the color of the boys’ bikes?
i also find it interesting that micheal moore was jesse’s charge ,and had alcohol in his tox, his autopsy says it must be due to decomp?and keeps making a point of his evan williams.would michael had to have taken a swig ?
I have been watching the hurricane developments on the weather channel. This looks like a big bad storm. The NE quadrant is huge.
My first one was Audry in 1957 before the National Hurricane Center was established and the next one was Carla in 1961. Carla had winds of over 200 MPH as far inland as Victoria.
I was assigned the task of monitoring the movements of Carla by my company that had extensive facilities on the Texas coast. I was sent to one of the weather centers on the Texas coast to learn how to do it. Storms of this type can be tracked in a primative way by paying attention the the barametric pressures. Look for the lowest pressures in the area and try to line them up. This will help to determine the potential path. Of course today we have computer models and other things to help.
Stay as far away from large bodies of water as possible. The storm surge from Carla was twenty-five miles in places. The water is many times more destructive than wind.
Pick up or tie down anything in your yards. These will become missels in a storm. Look at your roofs for potential loose shingles. It may be too late to do repairs. Windows need to be sealed and be prepared to have rain driven by wind penetrate windows at the seals and doors as well. If windows can be covered securly with plywood, it should be done.
Communications will probably be lost. Cell towers at 100 feet are not usually guyed and some will be blown down. Antennas on other towers may be displaced or destroyed.
Electrical power will be lost. In winds of huricane speed 74 MPH minimum, main transmissions line will be blown into the range of their arc clearance and shorted out, possibly burned and seperated unless the power company shuts down the grid.
PLEASE BE SAFE. Material things can be replaced,but you cannot.
Joy.
Thank you for your thoughtfulness, one day I will tell you the funny story about why I bought a generator, my Daddy still cracks up (but hides his face if Mr. Blink is in earshot).
I have the 2 ways charged, supplies at the ready, thanks mostly to my dear friend and editor Madeline Tanner, who took the time to tell me today to take this seriously, as she is not far from you, and has been through 11 days without power – she fears for my/our novice in this area.
I am surrounded by large creeks and 3 mi from the Delaware, the flooding alone will crest all the bridges here, that has happened here at least 2x in the last 5 years.
I just want to say thanks to the man upstairs for allowing my parents to enjoy their anniversary on Cape May before this.
If your a Northeast coast or close enough person, please take precautions. I don’t recall seeing such a severe warning for us for a hurricane in my lifetime.
B
Batten down the hatches Blinkie…big winds a comin’. Wishing you and yours well.
Now (as I stand ready to duck), I want to offer up my support for Mom 3.0 for having the courage to speak up on this one. I covered this case years ago when it happened and I am as unconvinced now as I was then.
Mr. Deej (the social worker), works with a fella about Misskelley’s age who shows many similarities. I know what his IQ is, and his diagnoses, and while I won’t share those here, I can say…if Mr. Deej wanted his client to tell him he’d been to Mars, he would. And then create a pretty incredible story about his life there.
You can look at Misskelley and think “somethin’ ain’t right with that boy”, as we say in my part of the world.
I felt then, and feel now, Misskelley’s confession(s) were not quite consistant enough to be convincing. They change. They waver. Sure, sometimes he’s got correct information, but I’m just not certain he had the capacity to fully understand the situation. I think he would’ve said whatever he thought they wanted to hear if he thought the police would let him go.
And, I’m not convinced that the investigators, who royally f’ed this one from the get go, weren’t helping out Misskelley’s memory in the hopes of salvaging some resolution for the crime, regardless of whether or not it was the correct resolution.
Disfiguration/mutilation tends to be a very personal crime. Generally perpetrated by those closest to the victim. My money was on the step-father then, and it remains there.
I’m not convinced in this one. I’m not sure anyone will ever get satisfaction when it comes to justice for the wee ones. I truly respect your work, you know that. But this one…I’m just not as positive as you. Hugs from the ‘Natti.
PS-How ya likin’ Mr Ocho in the pre-season?
My bestie- Dee to da Jay!
I SECOND the kudos to Mom 3.0, and anyone that has an educated dissenting opinion.
This can be a rough room if the scale tips solidly one way or the other, and I am proud that the critical thinking tribunal that is blink et al, can take the chalk and head up front.
I am not going to be the Oracle of NJ on this one, I do so wish I was, I can hear these boys by looking at macros of their wounds, and there is no story in this case that resonates stronger with me then theirs.
O and #85…………… PPPPPPPPPPPPPPFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT.
His mom called, he is homesick, come get him please.
*snicker*
B
Blink, with all due respect, I wholeheartedly disagree with you on this case. No evidence these three teenagers had anything to do with these murders. Damien Echols was the town “weirdo” because he dressed in black and talked about practicing in the wicka religion. These boys were scapegoats and the confession was fed to the feeble one. Personally, I think that weirdo stepdad of the one boy is the one who did it. When the boys’ autopsies were reviewed after the trial, a bite mark was found on one of the boys. When investigators tried to get a mold of the stepdad’s mouth to compare they were told they couldn’t. Why? Because the stepdad had pulled his own teeth . You really should watch that HBO program..Paradise Lost. Folks, I hate to admit it, but setting those three free after 18 years incarceration was the right thing to do. The investigation was botched. No way those three teens killed those little boys. I’ll never believe it.
lol.
There you have it, mystery solved.
B
On here looking for PT 2, not expecting necessarily as B is meticulous. Hope your power holds.
Darn, my spouse is passing thru NYC at this very moment in a roundtrip college dorm delivery this weekend N of CT, & son flies out to meet up at 8 am. I’ve pd no attention seriously to the wind thing til TX gf’s post. TY.
Blink
In 1979 I was in your area in the early fall. We were driving the blue ridge parkway from the beginning to the end to see the fall colors in the trees. We drove all the way to Mass. before turning around.
We picked up the NJ turnpike in SW NJ and followed it for a while. The road surface was so bad that I decided to crossover to another highway to the NW. I missed the exit and drove to the next one crossing under the turnpike and then found that the road did not loop back so we drove into a small village and had a wonderful time. The houses were 19th century but in great shape. We stopped at the local mom and pop store and found a peck of fresh apples which we bought and ate the remainder of the trip.
This is a beautiful area. You and your family are very lucky to live there.
I was going to suggest a generator to provide power, but some do not know how to properly hook them up to the electrical system. I forget that your dad probably taught you much more than the average young woman.
I am reminded of how our oldest daughter would watch me make repairs to the automobiles including rebuilding 4-barrel carburators. When she took her drivers ed. class she was the only one in her group who knew every major component under the hood and what they did. The other three were guys. I found this information from her instructor. She was afraid the guys would be mad if she said anything.
I am glad that you received some advice from your friend Madeline Tanner about the storm. It is not unusual for power to be out for an extended time after a storm such as this one.
I have a friend whose last name is Tanner as well. He is a retired electro chemist and plays music with us in our community band.
This case is a tough one. There is so much that appears to have been missed during the investigation. This small community did not have proper resources to do the investigation. Why they didn’t ask for help from the State Police is beyond me. I could not believe the poor pictures at the creek and the fifty cent ruler used to measure the knife recovered from the pond as well as improper technique to use a measuring device. I feel like if I could spend several weeks in examination of the evidence, there may be a track to prove guilt or innocence without a doubt.
At this point, I still lean to the guilt of the three.
Be safe!
Mom3.0, what does the kind of music the WM3 enjoyed and whether they were real metalheads have to do with anything? Contrary to what Eddie Vedder (and the rest of the people responsible for unleashing these men on society again) would have you believe, the prosecution did NOT base their case on the boys’ music tastes and fashion choices. It doesn’t matter whether they were metalheads, goths, or bubblegum pop enthusiasts. Well, it matters to Eddie Vedder, James Hetfield & co., I suppose. Not to the prosecution, and not to anyone interested in the actual truth of the case.
Well to Mom 3.0′s point, I don’t believe that was ever the case either, but it WAS their defense strategy, and the WM3 platform to support them financially in the first place.
B
Besides, even without studying the case and what actually happened during the investigation and trial, the WM3′s supporters’ claims that the boys were “targeted” for being “different” are suspect right off the bat. Wearing lots of black and/or listening to Metallica was not exactly unpopular in rural America in the early 90s, let alone unique to these boys. Of course many in those communities didn’t approve of youth subcultures and heavy metal music. But the idea that liking Metallica would make these guys stand out like a sore thumb, and be considered public enemy No. 1 by the entire community is ludicrous. Damien Echols stood out alright, but not in the way “Paradise Lost” and its fan brigade claim.
I began watching Paradise Lost 2 on HBO last night (I could not find PL1). Disturbing show. My husband, an attorney, was watching it with me and he was viewing it with defense attorney eyes so I had to turn it off to watch without him later. I am keeping an open mind. The whole bunch of them are strange, including the step-father. I did not know that he got dentures nor did I know that his wife passed away a few years after the murders. Makes me wonder about him. I am waiting for Blink’s information tho as I know Paradise Lost is slanted towards freeing the WM3.
I just wish HBO and whoever else spent so much energy and money proving the WM3 were not guilty would spend equal resources to prove who really did it if they are in fact so certain these boys didn’t. It seems to me that the 3 little boys have been forgotten. I have an 8 year old boy and I can’t even imagine him going thru what those little boys did, heartbreaking to say the least.
Because I am a bit under the weather, I am having difficulty sleeping, and Mr. Blink wanted to watch PL1 last night, as he has not seen anything on the case but my work, and of course has been in earshot of my office on occasion overhearing webex’s and the like.
If I did not pause it every few minutes to give background, I think he would have turned it off after the initial crime scene. It was interesting to me his reaction when he saw the boys laid out on the bank.
His response ” Who the hell would allow their dead naked son, lying on a ditch bank, to be filmed and shown on television?”
I explained to him that LE did not know their would be a “slant” to the piece, which aired two years after the trial, and I do not even know if anyone knew that would be included.
He said it was the most horrific thing he had ever seen, and that footage should be pulled.
Not judging one way or another, just conveying his observation from a Dad’s perspective.
B
Blink~ a few day’s ago you stated: It will crack you up to know that one of the better reports in my view, was Dr. Spitz.
Were you joking when you said this????
I will explain the comment.
I am going to apologize for overcommiting and under-delivering to post part 2 this afternoon.
We have a severe hurricane threat here in effect, and in addition to preparing our home and supplies, we have elderly neighbors across the street that need my help this afternoon. I hope to be lucky enough to work on it later through this evening or tomorrow morning, but I have to take this weather situation seriously as the priority for my home and family.
We don’t see this in these parts, lol.
B
Lucy- re-your August 26, 2011 at 6:38 am post-
Hello-
In my previous post I was giving my thoughts on TGF’s post from
August 23, 2011 at 8:11 pm – I was trying to tactfully give a different perspective without “calling out” TGF directly. I respect TGF immensely and although I thought his post contained some very good points- I disagreed with some of them, and wanted to voice my disagreement without singling him out.-
Hi TGF.
I also respect Blinks feelings IRT Damien and Jason, not being singled out because of their clothes and their taste in music or D strange beliefs ect- but I disagree with her. However, I do agree that these points were not the only reasons the probation officer/s and LE took a longer harder look at these 2 of interest- I do think their clothing and music and strangeness were major factors though-
Damiens clothing, his beliefs, his journals, poems, posters, written lyrics, his self made tattoos, and his taste in decoration, authors and books ect were brought up as part of the case Lucy- in fact a piece of paper with his sons name, Jasons name and Alister Crowley written upon it- was introduced as evidence.
Lucy, I respect your opinion- but it is only your opinion- Please do not “talk” to me as if your opinion is fact when it is not. Your opinions are no more valid then mine or anyoneelse’s.
Respectfully Lucy, Eddie Vedder, nor other celebrities or mere concerned citizens for that matter, are responsible for “unleashing” these men into society- Truth be told, it was LE’s mishandling of this case that ultimately made it possible for a JUDGE to release these men. After 18 years there could never be a fair trial. Witnesses have died, others recanted- more evidence was lost, some never obtained… Some of the victims families have publicly stated that they now believe the 3 are innocent ect ect. many factors played into the judges decision. Yes, these concerned citizens Veder and thousands of others, spent a great deal of money, time and effort inorder to help provide these 3 with a zealous defense.
Why is that a bad thing Lucy? They have a right to their opinions and they have the same right as we do to stand up and fight in the hopes of righting a wrong they believe occurred. They have the same rights to advocate for justice and for victims rights ect- as we all do- they believe their fight is just- their opinion happens to be that the conviction of these 3 was a miscarriage of justice and they happen to believe that these 3 are not the perpetrators of these heinous murders, but instead they are victims of a flawed court/LE/justice system. They believe the murderer/s is still out there- and has been since that horrible night in May 1993.
Their opinion differs from yours Lucy, but they believe it is correct, just as strongly as you believe yours is correct.
Thank goodness there are people out there willing to stand up- and help- even despite others believing their opinions IRT guilt or innocence or misguided or wrong.
I agree that releasing these 3 before a retrial happened was most likely not the best thing to do- but this was not Vedders decision- it was the decision of the Judge- who stated, for the record, that he felt this was best remedy for all involved.
The 3 maintained their innocence but pled guilty- and if they mess up, then guess what? These convictions will factor in to any sentence imposed for that offense.
Lucy, you wrote:
It doesn’t matter whether they were metalheads, goths, or bubblegum pop enthusiasts. Well, it matters to Eddie Vedder, James Hetfield & co., I suppose. Not to the prosecution, and not to anyone interested in the actual truth of the case.-
Again respectfully, if you can not understand that there is a bias, perhaps only subconsciously, that comes along with being perceived as a metalhead ect- then I am here to inform you that you are wrong- Just look at the way some have spoken about Morgan Harrington. It is a fact that people rightly or wrongly judge a book by its cover- if you are a metal head- then more often than not, you are judged to be a lazy, no good, degenerate-drug loving -hell raising- overly aggressive loser, with loose morals.- Add to that a belief in the occult and ajuvenile record, then you are all of the above plus a criminal who is a crazy, devil worshiping, evil freak.
I beg your pardon Lucy, but I am interested in the facts of this case, and I am taking a great deal of time to acquaint myself to the facts of this case- and I do believe that it is unfair of you to diminish Veder’s or Hetfields advocacy. You can not speak for them, nor can you speak for the prosecution/LE.
Lucy re your
August 26, 2011 at 6:51 am post-
Lucy besides the Dixie chick saying she is not aware of all the facts of this case- you do not know whether or not any other WM3 supporter has studied the facts of this case, nor do you know if they have knowledge of the investigation – the Fact is Lucy that there were alot of mistakes in this case, and most of it happened in the first hours and days.
The crime scene was not protected- phone records never obtained- bodies removed no cCSI techs to view bodies at sight- creek not drained- sticks with clothes not taken in- interviews not recorded- ect ect ect
Further more,I do not think mine and others perspectives regarding Damien and Jason standing out like a sore thumb is “ludicrous”, Steve Jones- Damiens parole officer at one time was traipsing all over those woods and in fact HE is the one that first found the shoe- he is also the one that alerted LE to Damien and he left the crime scene after the first little boy was pulled out- so how could he have stated that there was ritualistic signs and why did he state immediately that Damien is the only one that he could think of that might of been capable of such a crime? he is also the one that went to Damiens home with another officer and conducted that questionnaire- and asked about the cult and why Damien felt someone would do this ect ect- all without Damiens parents in the room and all without counsel.
So yeah- I think it is harder to “blend in” when you have a parole officer and others singling out Damien and by osmosis Jason.
As I said, I respect your opinion, but I do not have to agree with it, nor do I think you should state it as if it were fact.
Thanks for hearing me out.
AJMO
Peace
DeeJaye-
Thank you very very much for taking the time to post and offer your support to me on speaking up.
Also thanks very much for sharing your own thoughts and perspectives-much appreciated-
Blink I am also wishing the best for you and your fellow Newjersyites ect- take care- and get well soon.
((((((((((((Blink))))))))))))stay safe , and You and the rest of the Blink clan will be in my thoughts and prayers .
Mom3.0, you repeat time after time that you don’t have to agree with my opinion, when I never asked you to do any such thing. I simply corrected the misinformation that their choices in music and clothing were significant factors. And if you can’t see the difference between the potential significance of listening to Metallica and the potential significance of idolizing Aleister Crowley in a case like this… Well, either you’re not very familiar with Crowley, or you’re being completely irrational. His fascination with Crowley was a perfectly legitimate angle of investigation/prosecution.
And to me, Vedder/Maines/Depp/Waits/Rollins/etc., have done a terrible thing. I honestly don’t see why you feel the need to ask me why. Because I am firmly convinced in Echols, Baldwin and Misskelley’s guilt, of course. And because I think they pose a danger to society, especially the first two. Since we disagree on that, I don’t see how you can’t understand it’s only logical for us to disagree about celebrity involvement in the case.
Now, Mom3.0, I’m not claiming the prosecution did a perfect job with this, but if you’re wondering why I insist people keep missing the point and spreading misinformation, here’s a post,by poster Farm, from an anti-WM3 message board, which contains the prosecution explaining a few things. I set out only to find the prosecutor’s closing argument, but decided to include the whole post, since there’s other pertinent info and the poster provides some concise commentary. The whole thing’s quite long, but I think you should read it. Not in order to adopt my opinion, but because I assume you’re interested in the truth.
***
Was this a Satanic ritual killing?
Nope.
But then it wasn’t presented as one either – nor were the defendants said to be Satanists.
Fogleman was very clear in his closing argument why Echols “satanic” evidence was presented:
“This satanic stuff–satanic picture in and of itself does that mean they’re Satanists or anything like that? No. This mean in and of itself, Satanist? No. But, why present it? Why present this stuff? And by the way this doesn’t have anything to do with Wicca, doesn’t have anything to do with it. The reason to present it, is that to try to inflame you all and make you all so angry because it’s something different–because it’s something different and something we don’t understand? Is that why we would present it? No, not at all.
When you looked at those pictures of what was done to those three little boys, could you understand it? Could you have any reason to understand why someone would do that to three eight-year-old boys? Well, you’ve got three eight-year-old boys done that way, and then you got the defendants looking like choirboys during the trial–during jury selection. In fact, think back to jury selection when the defense trying to say, well, as they sit here right now what do you think about them? And either you or your fellow juror–you heard a fellow juror say, I think they look like typical kids. Well, think how hard it would be for you to conceive of typical teens doing what was done to these three eight-year-old boys. And I think you’ll understand why the need to put on this evidence.”
It was character evidence, and nothing more.
Griffis was presented simply to show Echols was a “Self styled dabbler” in Satanism, and that’s what he testified to.
In a report from the FBI done prior to these crimes during the “satanic panic” of the 80′s, Kennith Lanning set out to find cases of “satanic ritual killings”.
http://www.skepticfiles.org/mys3/lanning.htm
He scoured the largest criminal database on the planet and he never found one.
What he did find were several distinct catagories of “Satanists” – some of which committed “satanic” crimes, or crimes with trappings of occultism.
1. Youth Subculture – Most teenagers involved in fantasy
role-playing games, heavy metal music, or satanism are going
through a stage of adolescent development and commit no
significant crimes. The teenagers who have more serious
problems are usually those from dysfunctional families or
those who have poor communication within their families. These
troubled teenagers turn to satanism and the occult to overcome
a sense of alienation, to obtain power, or to justify their
antisocial behavior. for these teenagers, it is the symbolism,
not the spirituality, that is important. It is either the
psychopathic or the oddball, loner teenager who is most likely
to get into serious trouble. Extreme involvement in the occult
is a symptom of a problem, not the cause. This is not to deny,
however, that satanism and the occult are negative influences
for a troubled teenager. But to hysterically warn teenagers to
avoid this “mysterious, powerful and dangerous” thing called
satanism will drive many teenagers right to it. Some
rebellious teenagers will do whatever will most shock and
outrage society in order to flaunt their rejection of adult
norms.
2. Dabblers (Self-styled) – for these practitioners, there is
little or no spiritual motivation. They mix satanism,
witchcraft and paganism. Symbols mean whatever they want them
to mean. Molesters, rapists, drug dealers and murderers may
dabble in the occult and may commit their crimes in a
ceremonial or ritualistic way. This category has the potential
to be the most dangerous, and most of the “satanic” killers
fall into this category. Their involvement in satanism and the
occult is a symptom of a problem and a rationalization and
justification of antisocial behavior. Satanic/occult practices
(as well as those of other spiritual belief systems) can be
used as a mechanism to facilitate criminal objectives.
3. Traditional (Orthodox, Multigenerational) – These are the
true believers. They are usually wary of outsiders. Because of
this and constitutional issues, such groups are difficult for
law enforcement to penetrate. Although there is much we don’t
know about these groups, as of now there is little or no hard
evidence that they are involved in serious, organized criminal
activity. In addition, instead of being self-perpetuating
master crime conspirators, true believers probably have a
similar problem with their teenagers rebelling against their
belief system.
Now, Lanning claims “The teenagers who have more serious problems are usually those from dysfunctional families or those who have poor communication within their families. These troubled teenagers turn to satanism and the occult to overcome a sense of alienation, to obtain power, or to justify their antisocial behavior.”
Over and over again Echol’s mental health history speaks of his dysfunctional family, his issues of control, obtaining power over others, and his total lack of compassion for anyone but himself – from his first comittal in 92, to his out-patient therapy just weeks before the crime. He wasn’t just a misunderstood “Wiccan” with “teen angst”, he was a violent psychotic drug abusing sociopath who dabbled in the occult.
Lanning goes on to say “It is either the psychopathic or the oddball, loner teenager who is most likely to get into serious trouble.”
Echol’s mental health history leaves nothing to the imagination there.
But further, Lanning noted “Dabblers (Self-styled) – for these practitioners, there is little or no spiritual motivation. They mix satanism, witchcraft and paganism. Symbols mean whatever they want them to mean.
This category has the potential to be the most dangerous, and most of the “satanic” killers fall into this category.”
This catagory was discussed at trial as well.
Q: Now, do you have something called a self-styled satanist?
A: Yes, those are — that boils down, counselor, with the different types of groups.
Q: Okay.
A: Which would start out with an experimenter, usually one who practices alone in an unorganized manner, a self-styled occultist and we are talking here only in the field of satanism. And this person has some kind of problems in life and they use the trappings of occultism to get along. Then we have an occult cult group, and this has a little charismatic leader and some followers. Sometimes they got a name for their group, sometimes they don’t have a name for their group. But they use — all three of those use the trappings of occultism.
See, the Prosecution couldn’t present Echol’s psych history unless the Defense entered it, so they couldn’t show the jury his history of violence and drug abuse, his psychotic disorder, his dysfunctional family, or his issues of controling and demeaning others, but they COULD show the jury that Echols was a “self styled” dabbler in Satanism – and they did, through Griffis with Echol’s own writings.
Q: I wanna show you State’s Exhibit 110 and ask if you – if you’ll look at that and also — have you seen that before?
A: Yes sir, I have.
Q: If you’ll look through that again.
A: Yes sir.
Q: Alright, and what does that appear to you to be?
A: What I would refer to as a partial book of shadows.
Q: Book of shadows —
A: A partial.
Q: — partial.
A: Partial.
Q: Alright. Now, the items drawn on the front, what is that?
A: That is a pentagram, that happens to be a Wiccan, or white witchcraft pentagram.
Q: Alright. Now if you would open the book to the front page.
A: Yes sir.
Q: Alright. Now, explain what that is.
A: That’s confusion to me.
Q: Alright.
A: And the reason why we’ve got a white witchcraft pentagram, then we have upside down crosses which comes from another type of occultism.
Q: What type of occultism do the upside down cross come from?
A: That’s black witchcraft.
Q: Black witchcraft?
A: Yeah, and that is at the stations.
Q: That’s what?
A: That’s at what we call the points, the five points.
Q: Alright, what significance does that — that it’s at the five points?
A: Usually in traditional occultism — excuse me — satanism they’ll have various activities take place or —
Q: Okay. Now —
A: — figures —
Q: In white witchcraft or wiccan do you have upside down crosses?
A: No sir.
Just as the category Lanning had described years earlier, To Echols, symbols meant whatever he wanted them to mean, and he mixed Satanism Witchcraft, and Paganism into what he called “Demonology”.
Like it or not, that’s relevant.
And the fact is, the only “satanist” catagory Echols DIDN’T fall into was the traditional or “true believer” Satanist.
The real ones.
The ones for which no evidence of serious criminal activity exists.
He was the very definition of the type “satanist” who has traditionally committed violent crime – the psychotic, drug addled self-styled teen dabbler from a dysfunctional family who had issues of obtaining power over others.
Lanning isn’t simply speculating on a “psychological mindset” like some sort of profiler, he developed these distinct catagories through researching documented historical examples.
This wasn’t real “satanic panic” – the people of West Memphis weren’t afraid of cloak wearing, latin speaking figures lurking in the shadows snatching babies, they were afraid of a group of stoner anti-social teens who sat around campfires tripping, killing animals, and playing “devil worshiper”.
And they had a right to be afraid, because that silly crap was going on at the time.
Witness after witness reported going to these little get togethers, and police found the remnants.
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/jdreport.html
Now, whether you are willing to accept it or not, those are the type folks who are most likely to commit just such a sick and sensless crime, and the fact that Echols was one of them is relevant.
Like Rod Ferrell, Richard Ramirez, Ricky Kasso, and a host of others.
Echols and his gas-huffing, anti-social, heavy metal “devil worshiper” pals did this crime – make no mistake about it.
They were out there in those woods stoned and drunk when the kids came by, they started bullying and humiliating them and in a frenzy, the brutality escalated into savage murder – just as Misskelley described, and just as the evidence clearly shows.
The simple fact is, There was no motive.
They did it just to see what it was like, and they bragged about it to anyone who would listen.
To mom3.0, with all due respect, I have seen nothing to show the love of Metallica had anything to do with MH’s disappearance or what people are saying. The choices she made at the concert in coordination with her dress made her a target for any roving perv between Charlottesville and Blacksburg and people have bought that up. There were hundreds of girls dressed like her at the concert so she in no way stood out from the crowd. It should be a lesson to young people anywhere that there are folks out there who would do you harm. Do not enhance their opportunity. Most of us have made similar decisions and suffered no more than a little embarrassment or lecturing
I also totally disagree that a person’s thoughts and beliefs should not be a factor IF those thoughts are pertinent to what happened. It should not be the major factor but it has to play some role which would be capability.
“Lucy besides the Dixie chick saying she is not aware of all the facts of this case- you do not know whether or not any other WM3 supporter has studied the facts of this case, nor do you know if they have knowledge of the investigation – the Fact is Lucy that there were alot of mistakes in this case, and most of it happened in the first hours and days.”
Mistakes? Yes. Anything that seriously undermines the case against the WM3? No. But that’s just my opinion, and I honestly wouldn’t have had a problem with (yet!) another trial for the Three. However, Vedder and Maines were obviously not interested in another trial and determining the truth. For them, the trial was just a necessary evil to get the WM3 out of prison. They didn’t care about determining anything, as evidenced by their hugging and partying with Echols and Baldwin, despite NO EXCULPATORY EVIDENCE, and no further determination of anything. If they truly cared about justice, they would’ve demanded a new trial instead of this shady deal and release. Instead, they just relaxed and opened some champagne.