The West Memphis Series Part II: Guilty By Plea And Have Been Set Free
Jonesboro, AR- In a shocking development, four days following the first installment of the West Memphis Three on www.blinkoncrime.com, on August 19, 2011 Damien Echols, Charles Jason Baldwin and Jessie Miskelley, through an Alford plea, were convicted of three counts of first degree murder following an agreement made by Prosecutor Scott Ellington and their respective defense attorneys for the murders of eight year old boys James Michael Moore, Christopher Byers ( Murray) and Stevie Branch.
Judge David N. Laser agreed to and imposed suspended sentences for time served to Echols, Miskelley and Baldwin; all were released and immediately declared their innocence during the ensuing press conference.
In Part I of our series, we touched briefly on the development of new evidence and possible murder weapon, the blue handled- mountain ice axe, which inexplicably was never presented at trial. It had been admitted into evidence after being retrieved from its owner, following it’s return by Jason Baldwin’s, younger brother Mathew.
Requests to confirm whether or not the ice axe was maintained in evidence at West Memphis Police Department were non-responsive at the time of this publication. Part II continues first with what the jury never heard. A podcast of my interview on the case following the release of the WM3 can be found here.
Premature Illumination
One of the larger points of contention in the murders was the lack of blood evidence at the scene. The lack of blood or blood spatter at the scene with such gruesome injuries spawned the defense theory the ditch was a dump site or secondary crime scene. This was largely due to the fact that the jury would never hear about the results of luminol tests; it was suppressed by motion of the defense In both trials.
Luminol enhanced chemiluminesence (LCL) technology in 1993 was geared toward examining items of evidence in a lab under black light for optimum photographic results, or its secondary application for use in an enclosed environment which can be manually darkened and a portable black light ( we now call this an alternative light source or ALS) brought to the scene.
LCL when sprayed onto a surface containing remnants of blood, or more specifically the iron in blood, will create a glowing reaction when iron, invisible to the naked eye, is present.
In 1993 under Arkansas law, Luminol testing was considered new, novel, and not accepted as scientific evidence.
While the methods for collection, testing and controls have advanced significantly since 1993 and LCL testing is widely used in criminal case work, analysis of the findings in the instant case flatly dispute the notion that there was no blood associated with the crime scene along the ditch bank of Robin Hood Hills.
Contrary to the misconception that there was no evidence of blood at the scene, the results of two consecutive days of luminol tests at the scene were enlightening.
As Kermit Channell and Donald Smith, from the Arkansas crime lab could not bring the “outside in” they were forced to set up shop in the woods along the banks of the ditch. Also present for testing both days were WMPD Detectives Mike Allen, Tony Anderson and Bryn Ridge.
Donald Smith’s report below in it’s entirety below, The other reports can be found here.
STATE CRIME LABORATORY
P.O. Box 5274
Number 3 Natural Resources Drive
Little Rock, Arkansas 72215
REPORT OF LABORATORY ANALYSIS
Investigating Officer / Agency / Address
Sgt. Mike Allen
West Memphis Police Department
100 Court Street
West Memphis, AR 72301
Laboratory Case Number: 93-05717
Date Received in Lab: 05/07/93
How Evidence Received: M E / Matthew Elliott
Agency Case Number:
Suspect (s):
Victim (s):
Steve Edward Branch
Date of Report; 06/10/93
FIELD INVESTIGATION. WEST MEMPHIS TRIPLE HOMICIDE. MAY 12 and
MAY 13. 1993 LUMINOL:
This analyst and Kermit Channell, Serologist responded to request to perform luminol on
a potential crime scene area on May 12, 1993. We left that afternoon, arriving in West
Memphis at approximately 6:30 P.M., proceeding to the Police Department.
Officers Tony Anderson, Brian Ridge, and Mike Allen accompanied Kermit and myself
to a swampy area in the northern edge of West Memphis where the victims were found.
A general survey of the area in the daylight hours was conducted. Approaching darkness
fresh solutions of luminol reagent were prepared. When the area became dark, using
flashlights for light support, the part returned to the area and proceeded to spray and
locate areas of luminol light emission activity, a presumptive test for the presence of
trace quantities of blood. The following observations were noted:
(1) At a trail along a stream bed an approximately 11 foot high bluff overlooking the
stream positive reactions were noted on either side of a tree with more reaction noted to
the right side of the tree, facing the stream bed.
(2) An Area with used plastic sheeting west of the trail and the bluff gave more positive
reactions were noted.
(3) At the west bank of the stream bed, to the right of some trees, an area gave positive
reaction. It was explained by the Police Department that this was where two of the
victims were placed when they were recovered from the stream bed.
(4) In the stream bed, below the described (at one time) water line, positive luminol tests
indicated where one of the victims was found in the water as related by the West
Memphis Police Department.
(5) On the east bank of the stream bed were a pile of sticks and a depression in the soil
where luminol tests showed a concentrated area of positive reaction.
[PAGE 2]
(6) North of this point luminol tests gave positive reaction to a large area of
concentration (described by West Memphis Police Department where the third victims
was placed upon recovery from the water).
(7) North of the point #6 near some tree roots, another large area of concentration of the
luminol reaction was noted.
(8) Trace amounts of positive luminol reaction was noted on the slope west of the area
where two of the victims were recovered and placed. (reference area #3). The areas north
and south of where the third victims had been placed (5) and (6) were unaccountable
known activity by the Memphis Police Department or rescue / recovery operations.
From these areas of noted luminol reactions for the presumptive presence of trace
amounts of blood the following opinion is rendered:
The traces of presumed blood detected along the trail (2), and at the bluff (1), and one the
slope (8) appear to be transfer of blood by the rescue and recovery teams.
Reaction in the areas where the recovered victims were placed is the apparent result of
trace blood transfer from the victims (3) and (6).
The area below the water level on the west side of the stream was accounted as where
trace amounts of the victimís blood diffused into the mud in the stream bed.
The areas (5) and (7) indicate activity prior to recovery of the victims and relate to
activity to the victims when perhaps they were being attacked.
It should be noted that the luminol testing was performed some days after the discovery
of the victims and at least one rainfall had occurred. There were no visible signs or
indication of blood at any of the locations that we investigated.
[PAGE 3]
Upon the group returning that night to the police headquarters Inspector Gitchell and his
staff were advised of our findings. It is our opinion the crime had taken place where the
bodies of the victims were recovered. Inspector Gitchell was further advised of the
inability to document the luminol reaction of the evening because of the light leaks from
stars and the back scattered light from West Memphis. To document the luminescence
Inspector Gitchell was advised that we would have to place tenting over the areas of
interest and to block out all stray light possible.
The luminescence requires near total darkness to document luminol reactions in the open
field.
It was decided that Kermit and I should stay over the next day perform the tests again
and photograph them.
The morning of May 13, Inspector Gitchell provided us with equipment, supplies and
manpower needed to document the areas of positive luminol reaction. A test with plastic
covering over the canvas was erected and photographs were taken of the positive areas
noted of the previous evening again with fresh luminol application.
Because of the limitations due to some light leakage, physical activity in the area
destroying some of the reaction, the weather conditions of some light rain the night
before and the originally low concentration levels in the areas on the bluff (area #1), along
the trail (area #2), where the victims were placed (area #3), and the area in the stream bed
where the body was recovered (area #4) and the area above the recovery area (area #8)
we were not able to document photography as we observed these areas the evening of
May 12.
The tented area over the areas where the victim’s body was placed (#6) and the
questioned area (#5), subdued the light to a degree that a less than perfect photograph
could be obtained. These photographs still documented the areas of interest, showing
luminol reaction in respective areas. These photographs were without the benefit of flash
painting application to reference the areas photographed. A still photo of the questioned
area from the original camera tripod location does reference the questioned area. The
photographs were processed revealing the luminol reaction at areas where the victim was
place (#6) and the questioned area (#5)
[PAGE 4]
The tent was moved and photographs were taken of the questioned area by the tree root (#7). Photographs of the areas (#4, #5 and #6) with surveyor flags mounted were taken to reference those areas tested and photographed. All photographs were left with Inspector Gitchell.
[signed] Donald E. Smith, Criminalist
Soil samples were submitted on May 14, 1993, but for unknown reasons not tested until 4 months later, and did not react to the luminol.
The result was considered inconclusive as it was not likely to detect blood from a four month old soil sample in the first place.
Although the luminol reaction results were not admissible in the trials, for analysis purposes, it tells an irrefutable story. The obvious counter-argument could only be that investigators were new to the technique, some of the initial testing was unable to be photographed, or to any conspiracies, that detectives simply made up results for some purpose.
However, as none of the investigators present had the autopsy results prior to the testing, and most certainly did not have Jessie Miskelley’s “account” to draw from, outside of the known injuries and other more circumstantial evidence in this case, these findings certainly further support there were multiple perpetrators in this crime- and that it all went down right there.
In 1998, Damien Echols filed a Rule 37 hearing for causes of incompetent counsel and due to his “actual innocence.” Jessie Miskelley lost his appeal to overturn his conviction also in 1998, but It was not until 2008 that Baldwin and Miskelley filed their Rule 37 petitions. For purposes of evaluation, I am including affidavits , exhibits and testimony excerpts from some of the expert witnesses at all three hearings and subsequent related appearance spanning from 1998- 2008.
Brent Turvey, of Knowledge Solutions, LLC trained under renowned blood spatter expert Dr. Henry Lee, did not consider any of the luminal reports when hired by Dan Stidham in 1998 for his expert opinion in his representation of Jessie Miskelley requesting a new trial. Turvey’s report found (here) was largely the impetus for future defense experts for all three defendants to “weigh in”.
While Turvey’s work was largely unsupported once his infamous “bitemark” was debunked and he bought into the “Baldwin knife” which has since been abandoned by all subsequent defense experts, as the first guy up at bat so to speak, his testimony demonstrated the burgeoning direction to the CSI Effect the West Memphis Three would take toward their ultimate freedom.
I explore Turvey’s initial observations taken directly from his report, in the beginning of each unique victim’s autopsy segment, followed by updated relevant expert information and my subsequent analysis.
Autopsy By Coroner- Autopsy By Proxy
In the interest of brevity, I intend to focus on the dissenting views of the experts, and I stipulate that in no report that I have reviewed, was there evidence of sodomy or object penetration of any of the boys.
While I believe Dr. Perretti’s prior experience with cases that involved same did form his opinion on the possibility as it relates to some of the injuries, I do not believe that such testimony should have been permitted at trial, nor would it be permitted today.
Memphis Triple Homicide May 5, 1993
James M. Moore #ME-329-93
Steve E. Branch #ME-330-93
Chris M. Byers #ME-331-93
LOCATION: On May 6th, 1993, all three victims were found, bound wrist to ankle with shoe laces, in the water of a drainage ditch, in a heavily wooded area called the Robin Hood hills, behind the Blue Beacon Truck Wash in West Memphis, Arkansas. An equivocal forensic examination of all available crime scene and autopsy photos, crime scene video, investigator’s reports, witness statements, family statements, autopsy reports and numerous other sources to be listed as referenced in the endnote section of this report. The purpose of this preliminary examination was to competently assess the nature of the interactions between the victims and their environments as it contributed to their deaths as indicated by available forensic evidence, and the documentation regarding that evidence.
James M. Moore
James Michael Moore autopsy found here.
The following forensic information is taken directly from the official autopsy report filed by Dr. Frank J. Peretti of the Arkansas State Crime Lab, Medical Examiner Division, dated 5-7-93, Case No. ME-329-93 and/ or from The official coroner’s report filed by Kent Hale, Crittenden County Coroner, dated 5-6-97.
The purpose of this section is not to present an all inclusive, detailed account and explanation of every piece of information in these reports, but rather to explore these reports, with the corresponding photos, for consistency, possible omissions, and to review injuries or patterns that this examiner deemed to be significant to the case.
Wound Pattern Analysis
This victim received more traumatic head injuries than any of the other victims in this case. Dr. Peretti states that defense wounds were present on the victim’s hands. These wounds were very few, indicating that victim was incapacitated quickly after the attack began. So the nature of these head injuries, and the limited defensive type wounds, combine to indicate sudden, forceful, and repeated blows that resulted in abraded contusions, multiple lacerations, and multiple skull fractures.
There is an unexplained directional pattern abrasion just below the victim’s right anterior shoulder area.
This unexplained injury does not correspond with any of the physical evidence collected at the location that victim was discovered. It is furthermore inconsistent with any of the naturally occurring elements that exist in that environment. The best conclusion that this examiner can reach is that this pattern abrasion was created by forceful, directional contact with something that was not found at that crime scene, whether it be a weapon, a surface or something else capable of creating that pattern.
The shoelace ligatures used to restrain this victim did not leave deep furrows, and also did not leave abrasions. This indicates that the victim was not struggling while the ligatures were in place. This indicates further that the victim was very much unconscious when the ligatures were affixed to his wrists and ankles.
We know that the victim drowned, that is to say that hemorrhagic edema fluid was present in the victim’s lungs, indicating that the victim was breathing when he was placed into the 2ft of water in the drainage ditch at Robin Hood Hills.
Together, these facts suggest that the purpose of the ligatures in this victim’s case was to keep the victim from moving around or being able to swim should he regain consciousness once he had been thrown into the water. It is this examiners opinion that the assailant in this case demonstrated all manner of awareness and cognizance at this location. The assailant knew that this victim was not dead when they threw this victim into the water, and that the ligatures would assist to complete the act of deliberate homicide should the victim become conscious.
Lack Of Injuries
When compared to the other two victims in this case, who were found at the same location, bound nude with shoelace ligatures in the same fashion, the most striking discrepancy is the lack of injuries suffered by this victim. In the crime scene and autopsy photos made available to this examiner, there were no readily discernible bite marks visible, the genitals have not been visibly disturbed or molested, and there are no discernible stab wounds. This lack of attention is very telling, and will be discussed in the Offender Characteristics section of this report. There is also, again, a lack of mosquito bites to this victim, which, as mentioned earlier, suggests that he received his injuries elsewhere first. This because the injuries took time to inflict, time during which many mosquito bites would have been received, even after death.
Analysis: I find the statement that he had the least amount of injuries, yet the most severe head injuries in dire conflict, as he died from multiple injuries, and drowning. The fractures to his head and lacerations to his left and front right skull were enough to cause his death within minutes on their own, and there can be no doubt that he received them while he was already unconscious because of the lack of injury at the ligature sites. There is very little hemorrhage involvement with the open lacerations, and all lacerations were abraded; one with a dovetail and upside down L producing an ovid fracture. In Jesse Miskelley’s confessions, he says one of them was moving as he was put in the water while he was leaving. I believe the reason he never mentioned that Michael Moore was beat about the head with an instrument of some kind is because he never saw that. Michael was located in the ditch just below the oak with the exposed root that had the luminol result “shaped like a V”, which would be consistent with him struggling to get out of that water, on that bank, with a cast off or blood spatter pattern consistent with someone beating him toward the bank and in front of that tree.
Mosquito bites: Only females take a blood meal, so that potentially reduces the population by 50%, and at no time will they bite a deceased person. They are attracted mostly by carbon dioxide, released from a breathing person. Both Dr. Haskell and Dr. Goff agreed to this ultimately.
What is further curious to me, is that while Turvey was hired by Miskelley, who confessed at least three times by the date of the generation of this report, does he not note the obvious discrepancy for the placement of Mike Moore upstream, or that he was found on his right side with the left side surfacing when in effect dislodged by Det. Mike Allen. Moore was also hogtied differently, with different knots than the other 2 victims, with ONE black shoelace. There is a reason that Turvey was not given Miskelley’s updated confession following his conviction, and instructed to disprove it; he would not have been able to.
Steven Edward Branch
Stevie Branch autopsy found here.
Wound Pattern Analysis
There are numerous violent, traumatic injuries to this victim’s face and head, as well as numerous superficial scratches, abrasions, and contusions noted throughout the rest of his body. Dr. Peretti, however, does not note the presence of extensive defensive wounds.
This indicates a violent, overpowering attack on this victim that he was unable to put up resistance against. The constellation of wounds are very similar to those inflicted on James Moore, however they are much more intense and include the victim’s face.
This level of attention paid to the victim’s face, in terms of depersonalization and rage, is indicative of familiarity and that will be explored later on in this report.
Furthermore, there is the existence of patterned injuries all over this victim’s face that could be bite marks. Since the ME may have missed this crucial evidence, other areas of his body may show bite mark evidence as well. The autopsy photos of this victim supplied to this examiner were not of sufficient quality to make an absolute determination of any kind, and would require a thorough examination by a qualified forensic odontologist for an informed, conclusive analysis. [note: Dr. Thomas David, board certified forensic odontologist, has confirmed the wound as a human adult bitemark and excluded Damien Echols, Jason Baldwin and Jessie Misskelley as the offender using bite impressions obtained from the men in prison] Bite mark evidence is very important in any criminal case because it demonstrates behavior and lends itself to individuation. It can reveal to an examiner who committed the act, because bite marks can be as unique as fingerprints. And, once established, it also reveals the act itself; biting.
Another unidentified pattern compression abrasion can be found on the back of Steve Branch’s head. The source of this injury caused a 3? inch fracture at the base of the skull with multiple extension fractures that terminate in the foramen magnum (that’s the hole at the base of the skull where the spinal cord connects to the brain). Upon close examination, this pattern injury is consistent with compression made from footwear. Again, without better photos supplied to the examiner showing a variety of angles, it’s very difficult to make a positive identification of any kind. But the pattern is consistent with a footwear impression, and would require a footwear impression expert to analyze and make an informed, competent determination.
The shoelace ligatures used to restrain this victim did leave deep furrows, and also did leave patterned abrasions on both the wrists and ankles. This indicates that the victim was struggling while the ligatures were in place. This indicates further that the victim was very much conscious before or after the ligatures were affixed to his wrists and ankles. We know that the victim drowned, that is to say that hemorrhagic edema fluid was present in the victim’s lungs, as well as in the victim’s mouth, indicating that the victim was breathing when he was placed into the 2ft of water in the drainage ditch at Robin Hood Hills.
Together, these facts, again, suggest that the purpose of the ligatures in this victim’s case was to keep the victim from moving around or being able to swim should he regain consciousness once he had been thrown into the water. It is this examiner’s opinion that the assailant in this case demonstrated all manner of awareness and cognizance at this location. The assailant knew that this victim was not dead when they threw this victim into the water, and that the ligatures would assist to complete the act of deliberate homicide should the victim become conscious.
Lack Of Injuries
There is again a lack of evidence to support any sort of strangulation. Dr. Peretti states that his examination of the neck of this victim revealed no injuries, and the photos that this examiner has seen support that conclusion.
Analysis: He missed the wound to Stevie Branch’s penis entirely. While not contained in his formal autopsy report, it was proven during the trial that Dr. Peretti’s colleague was called into evaluate what Turvey was calling “bite marks” and was ruled out. The fact that bite impressions did not match Echols, Baldwin or Miskelley was in no way exculpatory, and I will save you the bite by some animal with a rough tounge report nonsense I had to read .
The 3” fracture at the base of the skull, which “spiderwebbed” into subsequent fractures, also very likely severed his spinal cord, so one must assume this injury was also quite perimortem.
Steve ‘s left face was found to be abraded on the entire left side, and is consistent with someone either stomping on right side of his neck and fracturing it, with an obvious boot print, if the left side of the face was on the ground.
The gouging wounds- likely had to be inflicted following the fracture due to the lack of hemorrhage in comparison to the severity of the wound, and all experts agreed the injury was likely perimortem. So the question becomes- why?
Seems like a very important question, second only to what caused the trauma, based on the constellation of terminal injuries already inflicted on him. Wouldn’t the only thing left to do at that point be to submerge him?
It is my theory- therein lies the problem. Byers was put in the ditch first, and we know he was already deceased, therefore, he sinks. Stevie Branch is placed in the water next to him, and he either begins moving or floats and the suspects thinks he is still alive, and uses an implement to force him into the ditch bottom until he succumbs and stays submerged. I will leave out the specifics of the gouging wound as to why I think that resulted in the usage of the other end of the ice axe on Michael Moore. The luminol result, found in the ditch bed itself, after it was drained, slightly downstream from Byers and Branch, but still upstream from Moore could also support this theory. We know that Byers had already bled out, but Branch was still alive when he was put into the water and the only significant bleeding wound on his person capable of leaving blood evidence in the bottom of the ditch to survive it simply being washed away in the creek, there is a high degree of probability he bled directly into the dirt. He was found face down.
Christopher Byers
Christopher Byers autopsy found here.
It should be noted that this victim’s injuries were the most extensive, most violent, and most overtly sexual of the all the victims in this case. The nature and extent of this victim’s wounds indicate that the assailant spent the most time with this victim.
Additionally, this victim’s toxicology report revealed non-therapeutic levels of carbamazepine in the blood. All of these differences are very important, and will be explored in the later sections of this report.
Wound Pattern Analysis
There are numerous violent, traumatic injuries to this victim’s head, specifically to the base of the skull. There was also evidence of the violent emasculation of the victim’s sex organs, extensive lacerations and bruising to the victim’s buttocks, as well as numerous superficial scratches, abrasions, and contusions noted throughout the rest of his body. Dr. Peretti also noted that there were numerous healed injuries of varying nature on this victim. Dr. Peretti, however, did not note the presence of defensive wounds.
Again, this indicates a violent, overpowering attack on this victim that he was unable to put up resistance against. The general constellation of wounds to this victim is more advanced, more extensive, more overtly sexually oriented and includes the use of a knife.
This knife was used not only to inflict multiple stabbing and cutting injuries to the victim’s inner thighs and genital area, it was used in the emasculation process. There is, unmentioned in either the ME’s or Coroner’s reports, what appears to be a clear impression of the knife handle on the right side of the large gaping defect left behind after the removal of the victims penis, scrotal sac, and testes. This was impression was created when the knife was thrust full length into the victim by the assailant, during the process of emasculation. This indicates forceful, violent thrusts. The nature of this emasculation, as indicated by these wounds, is neither skilled nor practiced. It was a rageful, careless, but purposeful act carried out in anger.
It is the opinion of this examiner that this injury would have resulted in massive, uncontrollable blood-loss, from which the victim could not have survived without immediate medical attention.
It should also be pointed out that the nature of the stab wounds inflicted on the victim’s genital area, separate from those received during the emasculation process, show marked irregular configuration and pulling of the skin. This indicates that either the knife was being twisted as the assailant stabbed the victim, or that the victim was moving as the blade was withdrawn.
The second set of injuries is described as five superficial cutting wounds on the left buttock (pictured on the left in this photo at the right). It should be noted that these injuries are actually lacerations, as indicated by the bridging between the open tissue, and the irregular edges. Both indicators are apparent upon close examination of the photographs. It is the opinion of this examiner that this set of injuries is most consistent with the parental whipping given to Chris Byers by Mark Byers. It is further the opinion of this examiner that after having received this set of injuries, which tore open the skin and would have resulted in some severe bleeding, the victim would have been unable to walk or ride a bicycle without incredible pain and discomfort.
The third set of injuries is the multiple linear superficial interrupted cuts on the right buttock region (pictured in the photo above on the right). These injuries are not consistent with having been made by a belt as they are cuts. The edges are not irregular, and the cuts are interrupted, again indicating movement by the victim or the assailant during the attack.
Furthermore, there is the existence of bruised ovoid compression injuries all over this victim’s inner thigh that could be suction type bite marks. Since the ME may have missed this crucial evidence, other areas of his body may show bite mark evidence as well. The autopsy photos of this victim supplied to this examiner were not of sufficient quality to make an absolute determination of any kind, and would require a thorough examination by a qualified forensic odontologist for an informed, conclusive analysis.
Bite mark evidence is very important in any criminal case because it demonstrates behavior and lends itself to individuation. It can reveal to an examiner who committed the act, because bite marks can be as unique as fingerprints and positively identify a suspect. And, once established, it also reveals the act itself; biting. The shoelace ligatures used to restrain this victim did leave deep furrows, and also did leave patterned abrasions on both the wrists and ankles. This indicates that the victim was struggling while the ligatures were in place. This indicates further that the victim was very much conscious before or after the ligatures were affixed to his wrists and ankles.
We know that this victim did not drown, that is to say that no hemorrhagic edema fluid was present in the victim’s lungs, or well in the victim’s mouth. This indicates that the victim was already dead when he was placed into the 2? ft of water in the drainage ditch at Robin Hood Hills. This is, again, very different from the other two victims in this case.
Dr. Richard Souviron forensic odontologist: all mutilation is peri and post mortem, no knife was used.
On a final note, Mr. Hale states in his supplemental report on Chris Byers that there is a stab wound on his head. This is actually incorrect, and rectified by Dr. Peretti who states in his autopsy report of Chris Byers that the same injury is a 1¼-inch laceration to the left parietal scalp.
There is also, again, a lack of mosquito bites to this victim, which, as mentioned earlier, suggests that he received his injuries elsewhere first. This because the injuries took time to inflict, time during which many mosquito bites would have been received, even after death.
Additionally, unlike Steve Branch, there is no overkill present in this victim’s face. That is to say that this is another of the marked differences between the killings of Steve Branch and Chris Byers which is very important to note, and which will be explored more thoroughly in this report.
Recommendations
It is apparent from the physical evidence in this case that Chris M. Byers was attacked with sudden, violent force from which he defended himself in only a limited fashion. It appears as though this attack took place, at least in part, while his cloths were off and while the shoelace ligatures restrained him. He was sexually assaulted (an assault of a sexual nature, to areas of the body considered to be sexual, that does not include sexual penetration), and associated stab wounds indicate that he may have been conscious during several phases of the attack.
Analysis: How does he miss that the dosage of (car) was sub therapeutic, meaning below the level at which he was described and confuse it as non-therapeutic, in his estimation, as a possible means to subdue him. He completely missed the fact that it is likely that the level, found in his blood, was greatly reduced because there was very little blood volume left in his body. AND, it was a prescribed medication. Turvey does not mention the other factors that support Byers died first, and he died quickly and violently. While he did have stomach contents, he did not have any urine in his blatter and there was substantative evidence his bowels had evacuated at the scene, commonly a result of an immediate violent death.
Consensus or Conundrum- Depends Who You Ask
Regardless of which expert one believes, within the confines of each report, is the absence of the belief with any certainty that the “Baldwin” serrated knife was used. What they all agree on, is that the gouging injuries to Branch and Byers were very similar. They all agree that there was evidence of blunt force trauma, significant curvilinear fractures, what is commonly referred to in Forensic Pathology today as “chop wounds”, other sharp force trauma.
Thoughts onPost Mortem Animal Predation
I agree it is possible that snapping turtles could have caused what looks to be possible claw marks and at least one possible bite mark. I am emphasizing possible because I don’t think one can rule out animal predation 100%
Bryn Ridge himself testified he has seen snapping turtles in that area, some time ago. That said, there was not so much as a crawfish found in that creek as it was being pumped out, and that included a screen.
Dr. Spitz went as far as to suggest that somehow a carnivore of some kind was the cause of the animal predation although all oter evidence suggests that the boys were completely submerged, as well as their clothing, and there was obviously no animal tracks or other artifacts at the scene that would make that theory sound anything remotely believable. Thankfully, he stopped short of suggesting that a new breed of homicidal carnivores with a cleaner crew who could walk upright was responsible.
Fortunately I Dressed For Bushwhacking
Starting with one of the most important parts of the autopsy evidence, is the very fact that detectives knew VERY LITTLE about it outside of the cause of death, until late May at the earliest. So little in fact, that Gary Gitchell, Lead Investigator, wrote a list of follow up questions to the crime lab on May 26. (need link here)
Frank J. Peretti, MD preformed all three autopsies on May 7, 1993, and filed reports on May 10th for cause of death only. Those causes of death btw, were all listed as homicide by multiple injuries, period. Nobody knew that two boys died from drowning, and not all three. This is particularly concerning because the first conversation that Steve Jones and Det Sudbury had with Damien Echols was on May 7th prior to autopsy and in his subsequent interview with Det Bryn Ridge on May 10, when asked by Ridge how he knew about that, Echols told Ridge that Jones told HIM that whoever did this “urinated” in the mouths of the boys.
Urine was found in the stomachs of 2 of the victims, but that information was given by phone only to Gitchell, and not before May 16th, 1993. There is no possible way Damien Echols could have had case- specific information unless he was there or knew someone that was that told him what occurred, as the detective interviewing him at the time was clueless to that fact during the interview.
There are certainly many statements by both Echols and Miskelley prior to arrest that indicate they had prior knowledge of the murders, but I have been able to ride the see saw on those for the most part, like many.
The fact that Echols knew that there was urine in the stomachs of two victims, when it was intentionally ommitted from the report can only mean he was there, or knew someone who was, and in my opinion, both.
To be continued, West Memphis Three Part III
Sources:
Crime lab Index: http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img/crimelab.html
Chris Byers autopsy:
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/autcb.html
Michael Moore:
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/autmm.html
Stevie Branch:
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/autsb.html
Turvey Report: http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/b_turvey_profile.html
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Susanm
Jessie is no longer a teenager. His IQ may not be as low as 88. At one time it was believed that IQ did not changed. There is now evidence that it can and does change when a person has an opportunity to learn. It would be interesting to give him a new test. He may score 100 or more.
Jack
Thanks for you assesment of the TV show. Aside from any limitations on the plea agreement, the money people were not about to let Jessie create a train wreck of all they worked so hard to produce. Of course, with todays technology, a taped and edited production could have been produced. Unless the proceedure was live and there was no doubt that it was live, it cannot be fully trusted.
mjh
In regards to your question about telephone records. The time frame for this crime is May 1993. We are so accustomed to having things like phone records available due to modern technology that we do not consider the possibility that there was not equipment in place to make the record.
Telephone companies try to get as much life out of equipment as possible. Smart switching systems began to be installed in telephone exchanges about 1970. Smart switching systems are built around a special purpose computer. In the mid 1970′s SS-4 equipment began to be deployed. The type number SS-4 stands for Selective Signaling system version 4. These were intended to be amoratized over a period of thirty years. However, small telephone companies will try to make their capital investment last as long as possible.
Current version of smart excnanges are SS-7 and SS-8. These systems are usually deployed in large metropolitan areas. Rural areas are the last to get them. The amount of data these switching systems collect is ten times what the early swithches could collect.
If West Memphis Arkansas was being served by one of the Bell companies, an SS-4 system could have been in place. If an older relay based system was in service, there would be little data available.
In 1988, I was working on improving the speed of data transmitted over a leased telephone line in the Philidelphia area. The line was owned by the Delaware Telephone Company one of the first of the Bell companies. We had a problem that could not be fixed when we discovered the switch was an old cross-bar type that was built in 1903. So old equipment is still out there.
Thanks for the info Blink, IRT the lividity, thanks for the explanation.
So this could be due to the blood settling once they were taken from the water after death?
Did little Chris have enough blood to cause this too?
If so, I could think your explanation is sound.
I would assume that lividity does not take place if a body is submerged?
I say this because it would seem that their placement in the water didnot cause any lividity in the areas where it would have, had they been face down/stomach down elsewhere out of water
Does this make sense?
Yes, they were submerged, but not “withheld” (only kind word I can think of) by the creekbed. In essence, they were sort of suspended just like you would in a water environment- you need a hard surface, or any solid surface given the amount of time transpired and the basic water temperature.
Also, lividity is only one marker, and should not be exclusive in determining several factors, but in this case, it is a fair argument one would expect that after being removed and placed on the banks for about 3 hours.
Blink, I am at a disadvantage in IRT the alibis, as I have not made it through all of the info on Callahans yet.
My initial thoughts are that most people only have family or friends to back up their alibis same as the 3.
Also many seem to only give estimates of time periods, and lastly I would think most people, especially poor people or teens- would not be able to give an accounting of their time for any date, and most would have to rely on family and friends only as most hang out only with family and friends and not in “public” on most nights, especially if they are poor.
Again I am at a disadvantage
So please bear with me…
Thinking….
First, I am not sure if everyonelses alibis checked out, nor am I sure exactly what time periods are most relevant, can you or one of your readers, give me a time to start?
5:00 6:00 pm to 11:00pm ?? Is it earlier? Later?
thanks
AJMO
@Mom3.0: I, too, found JB personable and thought he seemed genuine during the Piers Morgan interview. Interestingly, he came across as almost protective of DE when the topic of DE’s suicide attempt in prison came up. This one simple but profound interaction between the two of them that was caught on camera, for me, seemed to disprove the long held belief that DE was always the stronger one, or ringleader of the two. JB appeared more centered and comfortable in his skin. DE came across to me as reserved and intelligent. My husband, who also watched the interview, thought he was odd. IMO, in every interview I have seen, DE’s affect always seems a bit dysthymic. This should not surprise anyone, given his mother’s history of depression, panic attacks, and obsessive compulsive symptoms. Depressive spectrum illness and other mental illnesses can have a genetic component, and can be passed down through the generations.
If I had been wrongfully convicted and spent eighteen years on Death Row or in general population in prison, I am not sure I would have the energy or the inclination to pursue the “real killers.” IMO, these three certainly have no moral or ethical duty to do so; that is LE’s job. Yes, I understand LE considers the case solved, but I am fairly certain there are many who do not.
As for DE and JB not appearing with JM, there is a flip side to the arguments others have presented. If I were innocent of a crime, I would not want to be anywhere near the person who falsely accused me…ever—even if I had forgiven him. I would never trust that person. Also, given that JB and DE were best friends during their teens, I do not find it odd that they would appear together in interviews.
I do not know why JM is not talking. But, it would not surprise me if he is not that comfortable speaking in public. Anyone who read any of his confessions should recognize the difficulties he had in answering the investigator’s and his lawyer’s questions, and how easily he was led. That being said, it would not surprise me if we heard from him at some point in the future.
Regarding the coroner’s and ME’s findings: I think this case would have benefited from having a medical examiner at the scene. In addition, and just as important, it would have been preferable for the ME to have had more experience and to have been board certified. He could have easily requested assistance from another ME, given the complexities of this case. IMO, his lack of experience is quite obvious in his transcribed testimony from both trials.
Some more observations and questions: I have been reviewing the investigators’ notes of their interviews with DE. It does not appear that DE was ever video or audiotaped during interviews. If this is true, I find it unacceptable and infuriating, especially since LE clearly had the means to do so. In the course of our careers, my husband and I have seen LE ‘claim’ the cameras/recording devices were ‘broken’ or unavailable when certain suspects were being interviewed, and when recording equipment was clearly available. If you want to videotape or audiotape a suspect, you find the equipment and do it. Still, even nowadays, there are some high profile suspects who are not video and/or audiotaped. Why would LE in this case not want the jury to hear DE’s own words? Why would they want to be his voice in court for the answers he provided during their questioning? If you were a suspect, would you prefer to be recorded, or would you have trusted an investigator who assumed the worst about you, to write down your words?
I am still on a quest for the truth, and am going to re-review the boy’s alibis later. I keep discovering more and more details on the Callahan site. It is a virtual treasure trove of information about this case, including LE’s info about other suspects. I would encourage anyone who is interested and has the time–and it does take a LOT of time–to carefully read all the documents there, including the trial transcripts. If one hasn’t, IMO, it is hard to get a full picture of the complexities of this case and to have a truly informed opinion regarding innocence or guilt.
Hey Blink, is Part 3 coming soon? =)
Lucy, I just can’t commit until the middle of next week, I have some front burner stuff, I will do my best.
B
@Morgan
The PRELIMINARY toxicology report said that Carbamazepine was found in Stevie Branch. The FINAL report came back showing that it was methylphenidate or Ritalin which Stevie was prescribed.
Cindy, that is incorrect. Stevie was not on any meds, and none were found.
You were referring to Chris Byers, who WAS prescribed Carbamazepine and Rittalin, but did not take the ritalin that day. The only thing found in his tox was sub therapeutic levels of Carbamazepine.
Mike Moore had a small level of Etoh.
B
Hi Blink -
Apparently – the supporters have dubbed you a charlatan, a fraud and state that Johnny Depp is still an avid supporter and never requested (directly or indirectly) someone to analyze the case – you had made it all up. So I think they are running scared and running a counter-attack. Has any of these accusations come your way?
Christina-
I am an investigative journalist, I can write about anything I choose, for what possible purpose would I need to make up the impetus for this series?
In fact, where posters were unclear that I was asked to review this case privately, at the request of an associate of Depp’s publicist, and not Depp directly, I have corrected them, without fail.
It was my agreement with this individual that I would do so, gratis, but that I would maintain the right to author my findings as I saw fit, full editorial, sole copyright, and in the event I felt any information I may develop would go to the prosecution and them, simultaneously, which it did.
I was provided a small case file of materials, which had an agreement associated with it’s use, and the rest utilized public information or additional intel I developed as result.
I realize it is different than taking money from people to tell them what they wish to hear, like as an example, writing my work on a pay site, an online publication which I started with my former spouse, or using the content to promote book sales and new book development that I intend to charge for. Or say, augmenting non-existent income for a town, or victims family members.
I was told I was flat out nuts to do anything but generate a book proposal with these findings; not the first time, lol.
If any of those ragers have any contact power like they profess, that is easily verifiable. For anyone in doubt, within 2 hours of my announcement I would be publishing a series on this case, Mara Leveritt had her first update on the case in a month, and the wm3org site had a new request up for $5 donations. This is fact.
If Mr. Depp is still a supporter, someone should tell WM3, because he has not publicly commented on this case since last year, after a media blitz, and these 3 pled guilty and got out.
One can infer what they choose, his publicist is not offering any comments on this time.
Apparently, the fund drive has also changed from investigative, to funds in some sort of trust, going directly to all three, shocker. No mention of the type of trust, where it is registered, who is administering it, or charitable status.
http://wm3org.typepad.com/blog/2011/09/donate-to-the-wm3-freedom-fund-now.html
I will be the first to say as unfortunate as it is, I knew when I began my work on this case, my findings would make every attempt to be fair, thorough, and well-analyzed, and the boards I came across had some of the most vile exchanges I have seen in a case.
That said, I have also seen hundreds of posts of FORMER supporters who have had the intestinal fortitude to publicly post they have changed their opinion. Some said, they are absolutely guilty and I feel duped, some said, I am not sure anymore they are not responsible and that does not allow me to continue to support their “cause”. And yes, you have the venemous crowd, crying Blink is a charlatan-fraudypants because that is what people do when they do not like what your saying, instead of intelligently conveying a fact-based counter-argument.
Interesting perspective if you think of it, they felt the 3 were innocent and bullied and villified because of their “differences”, yet their supporters think it ok to exact the same behavior on me and others for stating my “differences” to the party line, all based on fact.
I have learned it is an inevitibability that some of that ends up here, and it is the least fun ever to have people who think they are anonymous play keyboard coward and berate and threaten you into the wee hours not realizing their posts are moderated, and you will likely never see them.
Now that, I do plan to publish one day, as one of those bathroom books, which invariably, someone will say I made up, because you cannot believe how batshit people can be and simply not realize it, not care, or more thank likely, not remember.
I dedicate this favorite quote of mine, to those that feel maligning me is an answer to hiding the myriad of unsightly and blatant truths in this case, that they are all willing to ignore, to desperately cling to their Fonzie syndrom.
Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. ~Winston Churchill
People really need to quit with the coerced confession bullshit, it makes it obvious you don’t know what you are talking about. Jesse placed his hand on a bible and confessed after he had already been convicted, it’s a documented fact. So tell me, why would anyone need to coerce a confession out of someone who was already serving a life sentence? Do you realize how stupid that argument is, you’d be better off trying to convince people 2 plus 2 equals five. How about the blood on the pendant consistent with Baldwin’s and Stevie Branch’s blood. Another coincidence, conspiracy? Nope, another documented fact, supporters are such pathetic, ignorant sheep, it’s actually sad to watch you fumble around attempting to sound like you know what you are talking about. You would have fit right in with the lemmings of 1940′s Germany. This case is pretty clear, unfortunately, DE, JB, and JM didn’t leave a piece of paper with their fingerprints on it along with blood samples. However, when taken into consideration, the multiple confessions, the lack of alibis for all 3, the allele’s, the pendant, the Evan Williams bottle, Echols court room behavior, Blink’s findings, the “no more beer” freudian slip in PL1 (unbelievable), how does any person with a modicum of intelligence still feel like these scumbags could possibly be innocent, it is baffling. The odds of the above items I’ve listed all being just a coincidence are quite literally greater than winning the Powerball.
In defense of some of those that have not un-straddled the fence, I really believe they are guided by whether or not this is/was a well-prosecuted case, and the evidence could support a new trial outcome at the evidentiary hearing. I mention this because although I know your talking to the mindless radical supporters that you could have a tape of the murders being committed by these three and they would call it a competitive Hollywood produced fake by Peter Jackson detractors, there has been very little of that here. I am proud of the fact I maintain this site in a way that gives people the freedom and outlet to discuss all aspects of this case, intelligently and respectfully. Honestly, if that were the case, I would not waste my time or anyone else’s, for that matter.
This is not a forum, it is an advocate driven news site, which for the most part ( to the shagrin of my partner) is primarily original content developed by myself and other editors so it allows for fact- based editorial submissions from an investigative stance. Had my findings gone the other way, I would have been an advocate for both the accused and the victims in this case.
I think it is prudent to support those that may live on the fence based on the evidence, as long as we are all willing to consider those aspects of this case, that EFFECTS ALL OF US.
The prosecutorial outcome of this case will fall under scrutiny in a big way, mark my words.
I have learned some valuable lessons over the last year (valuable to whom, I am not sure, lol).
Investigative journalists, like myself, are on the crash cart. Providing answers to the hard questions in cases like this, do not churn the interest, they “settle things” in interested people’s minds, and they move on to other areas of advocacy, if we are lucky.
The MSM has no interest in that, the story, is supposed to be light as a feather, floating and floating and floating, across your TV screens until such time as the next story captivates interest and all the interested parties are no longer wanted for exclusives, and we start all over again.
Of course, I learned this originally from the Anthony case, but the amounts paid out in this case, horrifically, are ten-fold. Justice is absolutely for sale people, don’t let anyone tell you differently.
Save for the fact that if one commits a crime with zero commercial appeal, or during pre-booked sweeps, your screwed. Let’s see if that ever happens to one of the “sheeples” if Hollywood comes running.
B
Blink, I fully understand your point about prosecutorial competence. Here is my point, regardless of whether an individual believes the trial was handled well or not by the prosecution or the defense, in my personal opinion, this case, at it’s core, has always been about 3 boys who were robbed of absolutely everything, their innocence, youth, dignity, future, family, and their very lives. I personally don’t care about whether trial proceedings were textbook, or that the prosecution dropped the ball with the occult angle. What I do care about, is that the evidence freely available to any person willing to do the research clearly points to the 3′s obvious guilt. Enough so, that I really don’t want to even hear about fence sitters, because if you don’t realize that JM, DE, and JB have ridden a roller-coaster of Hollywood/celebrity money fueled ignorance all the way to their undeserved freedom, you either haven’t researched enough of this case, or you are not very intelligent.
Scott H
You have obviously read at least some of my work, so you know where I stand. I think the majority of the fence sitters on here will be the first to say (and have) that they have not completed all the research of their own (which I encourage). Part of this is my fault, (although I make no claim that my final installment will sway people nor is it my intention) that I have not completed the final piece to my series due to some legal things going on in the background, and my caseload.
I have really hated working on cases before, but by far, this has been one of the worst, in totality.
Maybe instead of the folks cashing in on this case could develope a scholarship fund in the name of all three victims for those of meager means in Crittenden county, for a shot out, that Chris Byers, Michael Moore and Stevie Branch never got. The absence of compassion for what happened to these boys amongst wealth being tossed around is putrid.
B
B
Wow, some powerful stuff here. Like Scott I could not give a crap less about the effectiveness of LE in handling this case. The attitude of liberal minded people in prosecuting murderers and other disgusting filth in our society is sickening. If a killer is not convicted according to someone’s skewed idea of right and wrong, they are innocent? If evidence that proves someone’s guilt point blank is not attained in a specific manner and handled likewise the defendant should be set free? This puts all the blame on the victim, their family and their friends. Meanwhile the guilty person goes about his or her merry way while the person who is inept or simply made a mistake moves on to the next case. I am surprised when anybody with money and connections is convicted of a crime. I’m even more surprised when they serve out the sentence they were given.
Graceinthehills-
Hello, thanks for sharing both yours and your husbands perspectives on the show- very interesting.
I would like to comment further on your posts, but if it is alright I dont have alot of time this afternoon and I very much would like to give my thoughts on some of the other posts.
Sorry to put you on the back burner. Hope you understand.
Blink- Thank you for stating that all who do not believe they are guilty or who are “fence sitters” are not intelligent.
Most appreciated.
As a fence-sitter.. Here are my thoughts on Jesse’s statements and bible confession.
It is not important to me whether or not it can be proven that they were coerced, or even that he may or may not be “slow” or whether or not he was 17 yrs old or whether or not he was motivated by the reward or by Vickies boundless determinations, or whether he had his hand on a bible-
The fact of the matter is that his confessions and statements are so riddled with inconsistencies and wrong details and rumors, and total fairy tale BS, and LIES, that they are rendered USELESS in my mind.
If Jesses statements are true, then he participated in a murder which was motivated by devil worship meeting in which DE was given pics and drugs and a gun and talked to the devil in different ways- and a group in which JM wanted to be a part of-
Everyone seems to put such stock in Jm “Bible confession” why? heres what is clear- JM knew right from wrong- he knew murder was wrong- he knew devil worship was wrong- he knew all these things went against the bible- yet he went along with it all- he put so much reference in the Bible- because he knows it is from God – so therefore we must believe he told the truth in that confession- well HE DIDNT– HE lied and even thou some details were right, much like in Aarons statements or Morgans statements ect-
HE still got MAJOR details wrong-
In the Bible it is clear
Treat others as you wish to be treated
Honor thy Father and Mother
Thou shall not murder-
Thou shall not Lie
I do not know why Jesse lied in his confessions and why he confessed a # of times- each of which is riddled with provable WRONG facts and details. But it is a FACT that he at first denied all of it and it is a fact that he wished he could get the reward to buy a truck and that he was friends with Vicki and Aaron who LIED in their own statements and at the same time implicated themselves.
It is also a fact that JM was on his way to big boy prison FOR LIFE and it is a fact that his “Bible Confession” bought him some time- and that he wanted to make sure “that something was done” and before he began this confession -he was treated nicely and given cokes and hamburgers and during this confession he was treated nicely and it resulted in him postponing the inevitable- if even for a few hours- he wasnt yet doing HARD TIME -IN PRISON FOR LIFE.
Just for the heck of it , Go back and reread Vickies statements to police and please take note of her use of the words “and stuff” I find it very telling that she too, when LYING chose to utilize this language “and stuff” much like Jesse filled the gaps in his statements with “and stuff”
The blood on the pendent-
It is proven through photographs that both JB and DE wore this necklace- it is also a fact that JB blood typing is the same as little Stevie Branchs- so yes it could be a coincidence- however far-fetched it seems there are astounding coincidences everywhere- anyone that followed the C- Anthony case knows this- and they often have no bearing on guilt or innocence.
I agree with you on Echols court room behavior- HE was a Complete PIG and STUPID and devoid of compassion- but that does not prove he was the murderer- and it does not even show consciousness of guilt- and if it makes you feel better, according to the jury notes this was one of the BIGGEST reasons they found DE guilty- his courtroom behavior so it seems to me – if he is innocent he was punished for his sickening behavior- with prison time.
The Evan Williams bottle-
Sorry to say this doesnt prove anything- bottles are a dime a dozen under bridges- and this bottle was not found in the brown paper sack and it held no fingerprints or other-
The alibis-
Not conclusive
Blinks work-
interesting and compelling
unfortunately unprovable at this time.
No beer statement-
I havent watched the documentaries cant comment-
Scott I am not a “supporter” AT ALL- but I must say that your calling people who hold a different opinion then yours “sheep” or “ignorant” or “pathetic” is uncalled for, especially when you compare them with “lemmings” that blindly followed Hitler.
That is just wrong Scott- nomatter what side of the fence you sit on that is wrong– and If I may be so bold to point out-that it is this kind of rhetoric that prevents many fence-sitters from taking any argument seriously- the name calling is abhorrent- especially since no matter if one is a “non” or a supporter or undecided, we all are on the side of justice and the victims, whether you or others wish to acknowledge that fact or not.
This was never about your side or their side
It was about finding the truth and getting justice and trying to help 3 little defenseless victims Stevie, Mike and Chris-
Where you all have it wrong is that you have made it about YOURSELVES and with each passing day you all get further and further from advocating for the victims and closer and closer to an ugly word fight complete with cussing and name calling where the facts and the victims and the truth get buried again-
AJMO Peace
ps Scott JFTR, I am undecided and I consider myself and others like me on this board, as well as Nons – (there are no “supporters” here) quite INTELLIGENT
and I think it is telling that you come here to spout off and say that you dont care what anyone says, the three are guilty. and anyone that has researched should come to this same conclusion immediately otherwise -you DONT want to hear anything from them, because if they cant see it, they are not intelligent….
With all due respect, Scott, if one is not open to hearing and discussing facts and details and differences of opinions in a constructive way-how can we all hope to get to the right “side” ???
True dat y’all. Last line was Mom 3.o, bolded for emphasis by me.
B
Hi Blink –
Thank you for answering my post.
I think that is the biggest problem the supporters (haters) are having w/your article – it’s UNBIASED and UNPAYED for by the MILLIONS and MILLIONS of dollars that have been dropped into the defense fund.
As far as the fund for all 3 to get the $ directly – I am wondering if any will trickle down to Jessie (I doubt it). Sometimes I check out their sites and see that supporters are already sending in money to these new “funds.”
If you can generate this much hatred from the supporters – it shows that you are on the right track.
I have seen sites where Todd Moore has posted on and the so-called supporters are downright venomous towards him – it’s unbelievable! It’s not about justice for 3 boys to them – it’s all about Jessie, Jason and Damien.
Please keep up the good work! And don’t let those “haters” get you down.
PS – Read the part where you will be writing a book – please don’t tease us because that would be soooo awesome!
lol, thanks, but you need to read that sentence again, the book reference was a potty book containing all the anonymous posts I have to record and delete, lol.
B
Luminol Photos,http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img2/luminol_photos.html
THat`s AT THE CRIME SCENE where the boys were found
thanks vicki, there are links to them in my piece and in the threads.
B
I’m don’t think anyone should be taking Mr. Depp’s silence as a sign he isn’t a support any longer. If he truly wasn’t supporting the WMFree why hasn’t he made a statement saying so. Why are all the videos of him proclaiming their innocence still up on various websites? He could have VERY easily requested all of them taken down, and demanded that 48 Hours not replay him saying he believed 100% they are innocent when they updated their program. Mr. Depp is anything but a coward and would not shy away from admitting he made a mistake. He is a VERY private person, he has been involved in this case for a very, very long time, he knows this case inside and out, the only reason he even came out as a supporter was to get these guys out. He knew time was running out for Damien and wanted to make a statement.
I will tell you why, because any respectable PR adviser would tell someone like him to let it die on the vine without comment. You clearly do not understand how this Hollywood machine works.
Not trying to offend you, he may or may not continue to support them, I am just saying, to your point, you would think if that was still the case, given his previous dedication, he would be up for a “yay” all that hard work…. His proclamations are still up because the network owns them, as he agreed to do the program of course, and did you really think they would not contact him for a comment or sound bite?
B
Ragdoll says:
September 27, 2011 at 12:48 am
I could share infinite stories about mental illness and medication. I fear it might come across as self indulgent.
@Ragdoll, you are amazing! Thank you so much for sharing your story with us. The only way we can eradicate the stigma that has for so long been attached to mental illness is to share our own stories. You are my hero!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1.mjh says:
September 27, 2011 at 8:03 am
For anyone who might be interested, I found that Mark McClish has done some statement analysis on the WM3 case.
His analysis includes Jessie Misskelley’s confessions(first 2)and Terry Hobbs’ and Michael Carson’s statements.
@mjh, thank you! I missed this when you first posted it. Quite an interesting read…
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1.Riverpearl says:
September 28, 2011 at 9:11 pm
GraceintheHills @ 8:40am ~ maybe ‘not oblivion’ but ‘just running in the hills for a bit of fresh air’
@Riverpearl: Yes, lots of fresh air!!
Good to see you on this thread!
I may not know how the Hollywood machine works, but I do know that not all of the many celebrity supporters have made a statement since their release. It’s a fact that no one knew that Mr. Depp was a supporter until he came out last year, when in fact he had been a supporter almost from the start. If he is no longer a supporter, then the non supporters should be really upset that he hasn’t come out, at the very least, and told the parents of the victims that he is sorry that his money and support lead to their release. Until I see him come out and say different, I will continue to consider him a supporter. No offense to you, Blink, but I think Mr. Depp has a mind of his own and knows how to find out the truth about this case without having to wait on a true crime blogger to educate him.
Fair enough, but I can absolutely promise you, every principal in this case was educated about this case on my little ole blog, outside of what they knew, or wanted others to know.
B
Okay blink i didn`t know you already posted them
Wow i saw on the CNN web site supporters attacking the parents of the victims. Disgustin!
lol, thanks, but you need to read that sentence again, the book reference was a potty book containing all the anonymous posts I have to record and delete, lol.
B
DANG! I knew it was too good to be true.
Mom3.0–Thanks for all the hard work/analysis you do. I remain a fence-sitter but am open to all critical thinkers in this case. And I also am not a Nazi…
I am watching the rerun of Piers Morgan. I wish he had asked some challenging questions instead of just fawning! It bothers me that when Piers asked DE if he had ever been in trouble with the law before the murders, he blithely lied and said no. I was troubled by how very easily he lied.
Also I found the following police statement by JB’s cousin in Callahan:
Statement of: Joe Houston Bartoush, Jr.
Route 2 Box 767 Lakeshore
DOB **-**-80 ***-****
On 10-27-92 I was at Lakeshore Trailer Park with Damien Echols when he killed a Black Great Dane. The dog was already sick and he hit the dog in the back of the head. He pulled the intestines out of the dog and started stomping the dog until blood came out of his mouth. He was going to come back later with battery acid so that he could burn the hair and skin off of the dog’s head. He had two cat skulls, a dog skull and a rat skull that I already knew about. He kept these skulls in his bedroom at Jack Echols house in Lakeshore. He was trying to make the eyeballs of the dog he killed pop out when he was stomping. Damien had a camoflouge survival knife to cut the guts out of the dog with. This statement was written by Det. Ridge at my request.
This statement was completed at 2:07 PM on the 14 day of June 1993.
Witness: Det. B. Ridge
X Joe Bartoush(Signature of person giving voluntary statement)
Witness: Hubert B. Bartoush
I can’t help but remember that all the boys were struck in the backs of their heads. Also I wonder if some of their bodily abrasions could have been kick/stomp marks. Blink may know. I find Joe Bartoush’s statement, given with his father as a witness, to be very disturbing. The level of violence is just so shocking.
Here’s my take on the Bible Confession. I bring this up because this is the piece of the puzzle that turns many people around towards guilt. It turned me around.
I think the “Bible Confession” has so much weight with people because most people have no idea that it existed.
People have been sold a story about the West Memphis Three through the Paradise Lost series that doesn’t line up with the police records and case documents.
When you first read the “bible confession” (and the next confession that followed the week after where Jessie confesses to the prosecutor while his attorney’s strongly advise him to not talk) you feel cheated. You feel like a pawn…like: wait a minute — is this the same confession with the “retarded kid” that I saw on that HBO movie? Why is his attorney there? Why is his attorney asking the questions? Why does Jessie seem adamant to get something done about this? He sounds almost remorseful in this confession.
Is Bible confession still nutty? (pictures of kids in briefcase, etc). Hell yeah. But in all his confessions, Jessie stays true to the core story that they ambushed these children — while appearing to downplay his own role (“I was drunk and didn’t do much” “then I left” “I stood off to the side”) But he gets key facts correct. I can list them if anyone cares. There’s a gut feeling. At least there was for me.
Back to the FREE THE WM3 SPIN… I thought Jessie was retarded? He seems to have some backbone in those later confessions. He’s playing the cops for cheeseburgers and cokes and bringing all this pressure down on himself? Again, is he retarded or is he Keyzer Soze?
And yeah, I’m aware that these later Jessie confessions still talk about cult activity. Is it possible that both could be true — cult activity and random killings? 100% Do some kids dabble in cults and meet in the woods around fires. Hell yeah, Was this killing a satanic ritual? Hell no. Candle wax? Huh? No one lit a candle anywhere at anytime. It’s the “satan thing” that makes people roll their eyes…
But there are dumbass kids all through this case talking about cults and white/black majik. You can’t ignore it. The prosecutors couldn’t bring up mental health issues which were filled with cult references and claims. All they could do is try to strip away the facade and let juries see that these kids did live in a world where dumbass kids did dumbass stuff, with some of them dabbling with cults and black magic.
Do I think the WM3 were involved in killings. Yes. But I don’t believe every document pointing to guilt. I don’t think for one second that Jason Baldwin ever even met Michael Carson, let alone admitted to anything. Does anyone think that a kid arrested for killing and raping children would BRAG about the TO ANYONE, LET ALONE IN PRISON? It never happened. Did the cops get so desperate to nail Jason Baldwin that they forced this Carson kid to testify? Maybe. That sucks. I wonder what the police knew that we didn’t that would make them force a guy to perjure himself.
Maybe it was Jessie’s Bible confession that turned the cops…
I hate when people copy and paste but i think this is how i feel also.
Al says:
October 2, 2011 at 2:14 pm
Wow, some powerful stuff here. Like Scott I could not give a crap less about the effectiveness of LE in handling this case. The
attitude of liberal minded people in prosecuting murderers and other disgusting filth in our society is sickening. If a killer is not convicted according to someone’s skewed idea of right and wrong, they are innocent? If evidence that proves someone’s guilt point blank is not attained in a specific manner and handled likewise the defendant should be set free? This puts all the blame on the victim, their family and their friends. Meanwhile the guilty person goes about his or her merry way while the person who is inept or simply made a mistake moves on to the next case. I am surprised when anybody with money and connections is convicted of a crime. I’m even more surprised when they serve out the sentence they were given. UNDERSTAND what he means,i feel the same way. He made some excellent comments.
Mom3.0~ Thank you so much for addressing Scott. Your eloquence with words never ceases to amaze me.
FTR~ I AM a supporter. I jumped over the fence long ago.
Not that it matters, but, I am not just some supporter that “breezed”
in to BOC after Blink’s first installment.
I have been a daily (several times a day actually) reader here for almost 2 years now. It was Morgan’s case that brought me here initially, and I also followed Caylee’s as well.
Until recently I have been content to just lurk. So, if it seems like I have disappeared, I have not…..I am here.
Scott H says:
October 1, 2011 at 9:57 pm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@Scott H:
What’s all the vitriol about? Did someone move your cheese?
This case is not about you. This case is not about any of us, it is about three little boys who were heinously murdered. It is also about a search for truth, and ultimately for justice.
IMO, had LE, prosecution and the defense got it right the first time, we would not be having any of these conversations, would we? So, yes, attention to detail during criminal cases does matter. FWIW, Steve, the “occult angle” was the weight of utter insanity–or just plain stupidity–that tipped the scales in the eyes of much of the public, and garnered the WM3 so much support. That type of trial might have flown (pardon the pun) in Salem in the late 1600′s, but not in Arkansas in 1994. At least, not with the world watching. Sheesh.
Of all the crime forums and blogs on the internet, I find Blink on Crime’s work and writings to be some of the most interesting and well-researched, so I follow here when time permits. Blink has always respected and encouraged a fair and reasoned exchange of opinions when analyzing cases, regardless of the side of the fence one is on. She encourages her posters to carefully study the facts of a case, instead of merely jumping to conclusions. I believe she wisely realizes there are two sides to every story, and that we can almost always learn something from each side.
I do not know that JM’s confessions were coerced or false. What I do know is that his confessions share elements consistent with known false confessions. If you are under the impression that individuals do not falsely confess, I would first refer you to the 1988 murder of Stephanie Crowe. Her 14 year old brother, Michael, gave a false confession, and two of his teenage friends, Joshua Treadway and Aaron Houser, also incriminated themselves. All three of the teens were innocent. LE subsequently determined that the assailant was a drifter named Richard Tuite. Although the Crowe case false confessions are some of the most talked about in the literature and are felt to be excellent examples of coerced false confession, there are many other examples of false confessions that were appeared voluntary, if you are interested.
Irt the DNA testing, I would suggest you read a bit more about alleles and be mindful of the estimates of statistical frequencies of the matching profiles in other reference populations that are associated with these types of reports. You might be surprised at what you find. The science is quite interesting.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@Mom3.0, I look forward to hearing from you, but take your time. BTW, I thought your analysis on JM’s Bible confession was spot on.
Grace-
LOL @ The Moved Cheese reference, excellent read.
In simple terms, this genie is out of the bottle for these convicted felons, period.
I absolutely believe that over the years, with much help, they have convinced themselves that they are innocent, because lawyers have argued for them the way they have; in short- If they say they can’t prove we did it, we did not. I get that.
Because I strongly believe in their guilt, which took me weeks of several hours per day of analysis and interviews to conclude, reconciling that fact is not coming easily, most specifically for the families of my dudes, Stevie Branch, Michael Moore and Chris Byers.
Scott H is not doing a great job conveying this, but I think he is actually saying the same thing, and this goes back to how it all started wrt to my nom de plume, blink.
To say that dissenting opinions, or shall we say, counter arguments to interpreted facts, are un-intelligent is particularly offensive to me, because I have learned from every well presented post with an alternative view, similar to how a case is actually presented in court, under which an accused in this country enjoys that freedom. NOT a perfect system by any means, but as you have all heard me say ad nauseum, it is the best one I know of; just ask Amanda Knox and Natalee Holloway to name a few.
It is critically important that we care about every aspect of how this came to pass as you and many others point out, regardless of whether or not we agree with the verdicts or outcome, and this is what goads me the most about the “blind supporters” who refuse to so much as admit the difference between innocent, and not guilty, because you could not cross that chasm on one’s own. These days you need a bridge of lawyers to walk across.
Lastly, I know that those of you who have committed your time and critical thinking to this case, and continue your advocacy, regardless of guilt or innocence, know that how this went down is improper under the law, and if that goes unchecked, it an happen to someone completely innocent, and someone heinous with no question of guilt, but an engaging media interest.
B
would you mind clearing this up for me “every principal in this case was educated about this case on my little ole blog, outside of what they knew, or wanted others to know.” What people are you speaking of, I know that the parent of one of the victims, as of last night, didn’t know who you were. I would consider him to be a principal in this case, maybe I’m wrong. Thanks!
cattail-
I really can’t without discussing sources which I will never do, you are free to disregard my comment, and think it a total coincidence that Baldwin changed his mind on the plea out of nowhere, without web access within 24 hours of my first piece, and presentation of the mountain ice axe along with his friends and brothers testimony regarding same.
I was not referring to parents, I was referring to the defendants, prosecution, all 3 defense teams, and members of Arkansas Act, WM3, and some investigators in this case.
That said, I was sent a post by Mr. Moore, which corroborated my findings about the Road Runner Bag in relation to Echols.
B
I went back and read my post from yesterday, I really must offer an apology to anyone offended by it. The 40′s Germany comment was completely out of line, as was the lack of intelligence comment. Sometimes I get a little venomous when discussing this case, it is a product of years spent arguing with people who know little of what they are talking about in regards to the West Memphis tragedy. That being said, the majority of posters here do not fall into that category, quite the opposite actually. For that, I do apologize. I must also say, I have never thought of this case as being about me, sorry, but that is absurd. It has always been about Steve, Michael, and Christopher. They are the reason I argue about this case, they have no voice anymore, there aren’t legions of people screaming for them, celebrities donating millions of dollars to their cause, and they aren’t the ones doing the talk show circuit. That is why I feel as though arguing against the 3 convicted, is in a way the only way to give voice to the three victims.
Mom, when talking about Jesse’s confessions, people love to speak of the lack of accuracy. By JM’s own admission, he was being deliberately deceitful in the initial confession. The “bible” confession took place 9 months after the day of the murders, could any of us remember exact details after that time period, I really don’t think so. How can you explain what Jesse did get right? Hiw can you explain Jesse spilling his guts in he car ride immediately following the trial? I have always thought Jesse felt remorse for what he did, hence his own mother admitting he would wake up screaming and crying in the middle of the night for weeks after the murders occured.
If the only confession Jesse made would have been his first, I could see not believing it. It’s just that Jesse’ confessions begin to point more toward actual involvement after the second, third, fourth, and fifth one. It is my opinion that those subsequent confessions, simply cannot be argued against.
Scott, you get the gentleman of the day award at BOC. I appreciate it.
B
28. GraceintheHills says:
October 3, 2011 at 12:48 am
Grace-
LOL @ The Moved Cheese reference, excellent read.
In simple terms, this genie is out of the bottle for these convicted felons, period.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I agree, Blink. We can hash and rehash the evidence or lack thereof, but, any way you slice it, once the Alford Pleas were entered and accepted this was a done deal. It will be interesting to see how each of the three fare in the future.
Amanda Knox ‘aquitted’ verdict -
http://blinkoncrime.com/2011/10/03/amanda-knox-free-from-perugia-prison-by-appeal-verdict/
People who commit crimes often profess their innocence in order to live with their conscience. IMO Jessie could not make that change and therefore he continued to confess although he did not want to take full responsibility for his acts. Therefore, the details of each confession are different. Digging through the confessions and carefully looking at the common information leads me to believe that Jessie participated along with the others.
At this point, the three are out of prison with two of them being treated as important people. This will satisfy their egos for a while. What will happen when the importance wears away and they are left to live in a modern society? I would think that the cry for attention may make one or more commit another crime against society.
The legal side of this case is yet incomplete. There is the issue of court orders that are ignored. Will the Arkansas Supreme Court allow a prosecutor to ignore them without some further legal action?
When society ignores the damage done to families by criminals who are later helped to escape punishment by people with misplaced altruism, then IMO everyone suffers.
@ NoLongerOnTheFence,
“I don’t think for one second that Jason Baldwin ever even met Michael Carson, let alone admitted to anything.”
IIRC, an employee of the correctional facility confirmed, among other things, that Baldwin and Carson were seen playing cards. I can’t recall her name at the moment, but I seem to recall her statement was in support of Baldwin’s Habeas corpus petition. Can somebody recall the details? Or correct me if I’m wrong, which I very well might be. Help me out, please.
“Did the cops get so desperate to nail Jason Baldwin that they forced this Carson kid to testify?”
Since he was out of jail at the time, and had no known issues with the law, I assume you’re suggesting he did something illegal at the time bad enough that he falsely testified in a capital murder case just to get out of it? Seems farfetched to me, personally. I remember someone saying that Carson has never had any trouble with the law after that stint in juvie (not that that would prove anything, but I’m still curious), but I don’t know if that is indeed correct. Anyone know? Blink, maybe?
Btw, NoLongerOnTheFence, since you propose the abovementioned theory (police forcing Carson to testify), is it safe to assume you discount Danny Williams’s testimony?
Lucy says:
October 4, 2011 at 2:53 pm
@Lucy, I don’t believe Carson was forced to testify, nor do I feel he was a credible witness. Prosecutors will sometimes use ‘jail house snitches’ to bolster their cases, but it is always a gamble. I have heard many a juror comment that they totally discounted a snitch’s testimony. Having worked in that environment, I can tell you that you can always count on at least one or two snitches crawling out of the word work in a high profile case. For one reason or another, they just love to talk.
I agree to that in general, but this snitch was out of the picture, and had nothing to gain, and he passed a polly. I think in this instance he is credible.
What I WILL say, is that in a prison environment, a convict is more likely to confess to a heinous act in order to appear “not to be messed with”, and would be especially true of someone of Jason’s small size.
Gonna turn the table on you a bit Grace if you would not mind-
Hypothetically speaking, what if you were confident that Jason was the ice axe “wielder” at the scene, and you were aware of the fights, propensity to collect and draw weapons, and acts of physical aggression toward his younger brothers?
What could you expect was going on that we did not see, but may have been seen by those closest to him as it relates to behavior and the overall family dynamic?
Finding your Mom after self mutilation and then having her committed for a 12 year old did not come without years of precursors.
B
One more thing to add about Carson, he passed a polygraph test.
Blink~ sorry for being totally OT here…but are you going to be
covering the Aliayah Lunsford case?
Unfortunately, not at this time, my caseload is propping the door as it is, lol, and that case, sadly, will go quickly. A family member has already been determined a suspect, as the amber alert was called off.
B
GraceintheHills says:
October 4, 2011 at 11:09 pm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Blink says, I agree to that in general, but this snitch was out of the picture, and had nothing to gain, and he passed a polly. I think in this instance he is credible.
@Blink, I have seen ‘snitches’ (for lack of a better word) come back and offer perjured testimony after they have been released from custody and allegedly have nothing to gain. IMO, particularly in high profile cases, the secondary gain can sometimes be the desired “fifteen minutes of fame.” Go figure.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Blink says, What I WILL say, is that in a prison environment, a convict is more likely to confess to a heinous act in order to appear “not to be messed with”, and would be especially true of someone of Jason’s small size.
@Blink, I agree that convicted persons housed in prison may talk up their crimes or even exaggerate prior acts in order keep bullies away. However, JB was a pretrial detainee and had not yet been convicted of a crime. In my experience, pretrial detainees are less willing to talk with other pretrial detainees about their alleged crimes. One reason is that most individuals booked into detention centers are are made aware of ‘snitches’ by their own attorneys and by other detainees before they even make it to their assigned housing areas. Additionally, POST-conviction, JB indicated that he was beaten multiple times by other inmates and sustained serious injuries. A young man of JB’s diminutive size would have been an easy target in prison regardless of how “scary” he *may* have tried to act. In general, prisons are a lot more violent than jails. By the way, most rapes occur in prisons.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTW, some thoughts on polygraphs: Having heard many stories over the years from highly reliable sources of known perpetrators “passing” polygraphs and others “failing” when they were not involved in the offense–and because of my training–I don’t look at polygraphs as reliable evidence of a suspect’s truthfulness. Of course, neither do most U.S. courts. There are individuals who test “deceptive” out of increased anxiety and feelings of guilt that may or may not be related to the crime. There are pathological or not-so-pathological liars who can sail through polygraphs. As many of you know, there is pretty significant variance in levels of experience and expertise in polygraphers. I am of the opinion that the FBI has generally had competent polygraphers over the years. I do think they can be useful as investigative tools, but I have also seen them lead investigators down rabbit holes.
Blink, I’ve got to run back to work, but will answer the rest post later. Sorry for any typos.
Good morning! Unless someone can set me straight here, I’m going to go back through and watch everything I can set my sights upon regarding Depp and his involvement in this case. Perhaps his vigorous support didn’t center upon setting them free, by whatever means, as much as it did a new trial in which all of the more recently discovered evidence would be presented and their guilt or innocence better determined.
If this was the case, then Mr. Depp had to be greatly disappointed – in Baldwin, in particular, who initially refused the Alford plea agreement and insisted upon a new trial with the hope of being completely exonerated. I get the feeling that’s what Depp was shooting for, a new trial, and it would be interesting to know if Depp’s silence began about the time the Alford plea was put on the table and accepted by Misskelly and Echols.
GraceintheHills says:
October 5, 2011 at 12:49 pm
Most respectfully dear Grace, has it not also been your experience that perpetrators of such crimes oftentimes feel the need to confess to someone, if only in passing? To get the burden off their chests, so to speak? Consider Cword and Robin (I believe it was Robin) to whom Cword allegedly confessed using chloroform to sedate Caylee. With a criminal past and a history of lying, Robin’s(?) credibility was questioned, though I don’t find it at all unusual, in my experience, that Cword would have made such an admission to her.
Just a thought.
A Texas Grandfather says:
September 30, 2011 at 9:08 pm
Warm thoughts to you! My mind is but a vast empty space and I strive to fill it up with as much as I am able to! Every little bit of information absorbed is like a star shining in the vast expanse of the midnight sky. You have added many stars to this vastness, and I thank you.
Mom3.0 says:
September 30, 2011 at 1:30 pm
UGH! Please accept my apologies for not responding to your comment yet. I’m days and days behind, having been asked to paint a portrait of a terminally ill woman who won’t be with us much longer. I am humbly and gratefully delayed by the task. Sorry about that. xoxo
Mom3.0 says:
September 30, 2011 at 2:06 pm
Here is the transcript from the PM show.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1109/29/pmt.01.html
I watched the show, and I found it rather tame- I truly hope the 3 will continue to fight to find out who committed these crimes- if not, THAT would speak volumes to me-
________________
Me too.
________________
“and I also found it sad that a Blue Oyster Cult album- was also shown as evidence in the trial…I wonder which one? Burning for you? Agents of Fortune? Some Enchanted Evening? All of them would cause an eyebrow or two to rise…. THE COVER ART IS “occultish” and I think rather COOL…. or at least I thought so when I was a teen.. sigh, I know I better be careful”
_________________
LOL. My “Goth” because she thinks it’s cool niece was quite upset with her father when he wouldn’t allow her to hang his old Black Sabbath album covers on her bedroom wall. He won’t because he’s convinced they’ll be worth a lot of money some day. You can’t imagine how some within the church they attend look at her. Well, maybe you can.
In poking around I came across this recent video of Pam Hobbs dated August 18th, 2011. I find it interesting that she doesn’t implicate Terry and seems to question the 3′s innocence.
http://www.wreg.com/search/dispatcher.front?Query=pam+hobbs&target=adv_video
@Morgan
Thanks for posting that link to pm.
“The most trouble I got in as a kid was I think I ran away one time.”
Really? Is this guy for real?
Morgan says:
October 6, 2011 at 5:11 am
GraceintheHills says:
October 5, 2011 at 12:49 pm
Most respectfully dear Grace, has it not also been your experience that perpetrators of such crimes oftentimes feel the need to confess to someone, if only in passing?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Respectfully, dear Morgan, no, this has not been my experience with pretrial detainees. My experience has been that many perpetrators of such crimes feel little, if any, guilt and deny any participation in the crime. Also, even in smaller jails, detainees who have allegedly committed offenses of this magnitude are generally segregated in single cells away from other inmates. This is done for their own safety and it also allows the jailers to keep a close eye on them. Detainees suspected of committing crimes of this magnitude, especially crimes against children, are observed carefully for any signs of suicidality. The last thing a detention center wants is for a high profile detainee to commit suicide while awaiting trial. This means the jailers are always aware of what that detainee is doing, and I suspect this was true in JB’s case. Teens who are detained are at a greater risk of committing suicide than older detainees.
Hi Blink,
I’m hoping by the 1,000th comment mark on part 2, we get to read part 3.
GraceintheHills says:
October 4, 2011 at 11:09 pm
Blink says, “Gonna turn the table on you a bit Grace if you would not mind-
Hypothetically speaking, what if you were confident that Jason was the ice axe “wielder” at the scene, and you were aware of the fights, propensity to collect and draw weapons, and acts of physical aggression toward his younger brothers?
What could you expect was going on that we did not see, but may have been seen by those closest to him as it relates to behavior and the overall family dynamic?
Finding your Mom after self mutilation and then having her committed for a 12 year old did not come without years of precursors.
B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Blink, I don’t mind. I read somewhere that JB’s mother attempted to kill herself and was hospitalized, but I cannot recall any details of any alleged violence of JB towards his brothers. I recall JB was responsible for his brothers when his mom was at work. It seems I have a vague memory of one incident that occurred when JB’s brother did not obey him, and instead went into his room to play video games. But, I don’t recall what action JB took in response to that. Is this information available at Callahan? I am going to look through the documents again and see if I can find any psychology notes on him. Having never met or spoken with JB at or around the time of the offense (or at any time), the only thing I can do is review reliable information and interpret what others’ may have observed.
I am sorry Grace, I cant link at the moment but yes, iirc, in JB journals. And of course I only expect a general response, and thank you for very responsibly pointing out that is all you could really do, given the fact you have never met or spoken with him.
B
hello everyone- Imm Baaaack-
Sorry couldnt resist with Halloween just around the corner.
Hi Graceinthehills-
I surely do appreciate your being here to give such thoughtful posts.
I thought about what you wrote and youre right- it is not the 3′s responsibility to seek out the killers. Just like the many people who are like Raymond Towler- once they are “free” we dont expect them to spend all their time seeking out the perpetrators- we only hope that LE finds them.
http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/Raymond_Towler.php
There is a big difference here though, the 3 were not exonerated, and if they themselves do not find the murderers, then they will never be exonerated, and everyone will still have some doubt… They did say this is one of their biggest goals right now, and as long as they have the money and the backing then I think the celebrities and all the supporters should continue to fund this goal. Although, because of what you wrote, Grace, I will not be so judgmental, if some day they “give up” as funding and backing does seem to dwindle after time- and realistically, how can 3 “guilty” ex-cons find the bad guys alone, with no support from their supporters or LE or anyone??-
Grace, I agree with your thoughts on the interviews and on both JB & DE- I agree with your husband too, DE is odd- and I can understand why too- its not hard to see that that it is quite possible- you are on point with all the reasons you mentioned-
JB’s story of the cat in the bag and DE retort to his “joking” peers of “meow” gave me much insight to both of these men as boys- DE’ handled the teasing and bullying by “feeding” into it- JB- handled it with disbelief and a shrug off while remaining loyal and steadfast to his “odd” friend.
Grace- I also find it mind-boggling that DE and JM were never taped and so many things were paraphrased and not in the witnesses own words- like JM’s statement- the one which susanm and I discussed previously. Much like the softball girls witnessing DE supposed “bragging” we as adults know that without inflection and exact wording ect- so much is left up to our own interpretations…in a murder investigation I find that to be totally outlandish.
AJMO
I am trying to catch-up- it will take me awhile but I am determined to respond to everyones great posts – thanks to all for being so willing to discuss things with me-
xara- Hi- thank you for speaking up to correct my assertion that no supporters were here on BOC- I am sorry if I offended you or anyoneelse I overlooked-
I, for one, am very happy to have you here, and I surely do appreciate hearing from supporters as well as “nons”- or other fence sitters-
If I may use your post as a jumping off point… I would like to say that Frankly, I wish we could stop with all the labels- I find it rather tiresome, but it seems this “war” was going on long before I arrived on the scene and it seems it will be going on long after “Switzerland” has gone-
I firmly believe that this “debate” has turned into a war of words and name calling- and it is sad, and it matters not what side of the debate one is on- the victims are getting lost in all of this- anyone that comes in “fresh” can attest to this – by just visiting any other board- the facts and the case have been buried in BS posturing. Calling supporters “haters” or nons “imbeciles” is getting everyone no where- and each time the debate becomes a personal attack, then it HAS devolved into all about me-you-them and not about truth, justice and the victims.
AJMO
I am going to fast forward you to Scott H apology, lol.
B
Hello Scott H-
Thank you very much for being so open to my post and thoughts. I appreciate you taking the time to respond in such a gentlemanly manner. I am again, open to hearing your point of view, as it is not riddled with venom and although you did not apologize for the sheep comment, you did apologize for the other comments- so thank you
I understand that you are passionate about your stance and the victims, Scott- I am sure supporters are too- and I certainly commend both you and other nons, as well as supporters, including the celebs, for debating their stance, and for lending yourselves to the cause of the victims and truth and justice.
The only difference between you and them, Scott- is that your side feels that the right perps were caught and punished- and their side feels that the real killers were never caught and never were punished- and still others realize that these 3 were not given fair trials and that they should have been afforded a new trial- whether they believe them to be innocent or guilty….unfortunately that will never happen and we all sit in Limbo- no matter if you are the accused/guilty/innocent three, the victims families, the community, or just one of the throngs of concerned citizens-
See Scott the supporters are on the side of the victims too, and they believe that little Mike and Steve and Chris have been silenced just like you feel they have been silenced, and they are trying to give them voices, just like you are, but they believe if they could speak up they would exonerate JB DE and JM as their killers.
Perhaps you feel they have been mislead- well they feel that you are the one that is not seeing clearly….
So the debate rages on, as it should, because we can all agree that the victims do not have justice, the families do not have closure, and the bad guy/s are not locked up-
If everyone is completely honest, I think we all should be able to agree on the fact that LE botched any chance of another trial almost from the beginning- so much was not followed up on and so much “evidence” was lost- and we can all debate our stances till the cows come home- but NONE of US will ever be able to base our stance on anything more than conjecture and theories- as not many “facts” and real evidence can be found- it all boils down to our perceptions of what little “evidence” is available- and IMO it aint much-
Thanks again for being such a gentlemen Scott- and I am thankful that we can now talk things over- and I am looking foreword to further conversations-
AJMO
cont part 2 (My answer to your questions- thanks for asking for My thoughts.)
hA HA- I just posted it Blink- Jeez dont rush me-LOL
Scott for the record- I was accepting your apology before Blinky told me too- -
Scott H, I think you deserve the utmost respect for not only apologizing but for remaining steadfast in the support of your stance.
Who knows it may be you that finally gets me to move off the fence- as I am open to listening to you- where before I was more apt to write you off- one things for sure- I will never again see you as close-minded or mean.
AJMO
Lol, I missed the memo where I get to anyone to do anything, let alone Switzerland
B