Kyron Horman Missing Case Breaking News: Remains Believed To Be Human Located Off Sauvie Island
Sauvie Island, Oregon-There are unconfirmed reports that a teenage boy fishing off of Sauvie Island located a human skull, and potentially other human body parts.
Update 1: As referenced on KOIN, a teenage fisherman believes he snagged a scalp with human hair attached, which he originally thought was horse hair. Columbia County detectives cordoned off the scene last evening and MCSO dive teams entered the water but found nothing. The possible “hair” was sent for testing.
Multnomah County Sheriff Office will not comment on the find, or confirm whether their office has facilitated the removal of same, or forwarded any items to the medical examiner for testing.
Following the disappearance of Kyron Horman, Sauvie Island has been the subject of repeated searchers for the missing Skyline second grader with no results.
It is also the former home of a man considered to be Federal fugitive following a confrontation with a Lincoln City officer with nearly fatal results. Officer Steven Dodds was able to return to duty after extensive rehabilitation.
Durham was a Sauvie Island resident for over 6 years and a volunteer fire fighter until he was removed from duty 6 months prior to the shooting.
David Durham’s dog was recovered injured following what appeared to be an accident in the suspects vehicle and is being cared for by a friend of the family. Mr. Durham has not been seen since his vehicle was recovered in the bay town of Waldport, Oregon.
Please check back to www.blinkoncrime.com for updates to this breaking story.
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“Yes I have him” sounds like an organized predator –
takes away the glory, the grandiosity, his great success,
if the public thought
he ran away or wandered off.
@Lyla. I know Portland was still in wet/cold weather
June 4. Neverthess, what professional mower would cut a soccer
field early in the morning with dew still present, even if readying
for youth games the next day. Much less with 200 plus extra cars parked
all around & going in and out…the hours were clearly visible. He could’ve come in at 10
and gone for coffee first.
Also, he was quite the mechanic. His job called for
him to work on & repair the mowing machines indoors in winter.
Who’d want in early spring, just getting back in the swing,
to dull those blades with wet grass clumps. Imo any caretaker who’d sharpened
the blades and is as detailoriented as DS would mow in the early afternoon
when some sun had burned off the dew.
But imo Kyron’s perp, like Sandusky, has offended before.
So I guess one would have to run the San Francisco region
back to the 60s for missing 6-9 yo boys.
RE: Kaine and DY interview part two Re: Kyron outside near truck. Stop at the 10:39 mark (link below)
The reporter had heard reports of something very relevent regarding Kyron outside the school near the truck.. The reporter waited until the end of the interview to bring it up (she almost didn’t). She stuttered, and didn’t finish her sentences several times. She started to mention witnesses, three people.. a man.. but never finished nor clearly articulated her questions. Kaine and DY knew what she was referring to and answered (DY saying the witnesses were “very credible”)… I’ve listened to this interview multiple times, and am still lost (as most of us here are) to exactly what the reporter was asking or had heard reported to her.
Blink, do you have the ability to contact the woman who conducted the interview to clarify what she had heard? I think many of us would love to know exactly what she knew (heard) and what exactly she was asking Kaine and DY.
Thanks!!!
http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horman/Kaine-Horman–Desiree-Young-827-pt-2-kyron-horman-missing-portland-101688128.html
@MBS
I read Blink as suggesting an organized predator who randomly chose Kyron because he fit his meticulous plan has not been excluded. That means he chose a boy in an appealing demographic range who fit the preplan which had to include being alone by the exit door at a certain point. The map on line showed which young boy classrooms were near, or far from, which doors.
Hook up near the “cool electric one” and trail at an distance until
he heads for the stairs up to his classroom, intercepting him near the door, and out.
Things left in the cubby, failure to return with group were irrelevant to this
predator, or affirmatively were part of the thrill of success, because his plan & “go to ground” were
so meticulous.
#48 – Is it your opinion only that the glasses were found on TH’s truck in the parking lot? Is it known where his glasses were found?
I have not read any information stating where they were found.
Could Kyron been adducted and taken into Canada? Kind of far-fetched, just chewin’ on some possibilities.
Blink says:
An organized offender is never leaving that to chance. I have to encourage everyone to review this case with the possibility it was a random offender, and unrelated. Then what?
**********************************************************************
Then there seems that there was a perfect storm at Skyline that day. I mean, what are the chances that these things all fall into place? If you think of it in that term, then you have a VERY organized, observant and opportunistic offender. You also have someone who is under the radar of everyone, including LE and parents in the area. You have someone who is operating either on the fringes of both society and “the grid” or the opposite, someone who is so above board they can operate without fear of being found out.
You’d have to think that if this was random, the person would either have to be the smoothest talker ever or someone who just didn’t care about getting caught taking a chid out of a school. He would have to be confident in his plan, or on the flip side, he would have to be so out of touch, that getting caught didn’t cause fear. I do think it’s the first. I think SZ is so confident and organized that he knew he had the perfect storm situation.
The idea of it being random makes my heart sink. It means we’re no closer to bringing Kyron home.
Sadly, a random offender is not new or novel. It is rare in terms of statistics, but what if someone just got lucky to take a child in a hot mess of a parental situation that would be construed as complicity in hours.
Show me a case where police were sure it was not random or a stranger initially and I will show you a child tied-up in closet while LE is canvassing, who ends up buried alive.
I never allow myself to wonder if Jessica heard the conversation at the front door thinking it might be her salvation. I just know and believe any memory of it left her when she left this plane.
B
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/06/fbi_sting_identifies_79_child.html
Now this Oregon Field Office head below differs, doesn’t he, from the one who always spoke at Kyron press conferences early on? that one had been a drugs specialist?
http://www.linkedin.com/in/gafowler?_mSplash=1
Wow! I was all wet! At one point a few months ago I was posted on the professional
history of the FBI Field Office Dir Art Balizan because he was Out There, on camera constantly
early in Kyron’s case. IIRC, Balizan was locally criticized by some for sting entrapments he directed of
“terrorists.” As a member of the public, based on public information, I felt he was a screw up.
Well, he was Gone from the FBI (retired) April 2011!
Then an Acting was in place May thru July.
Then a Real Counterterrorism-experienced FBI employee came on board in
August 2011, probably to do cleanup imo. This man looks intelligent imo.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/08/fbi_appoints_counterterrorism.html
But with these FBI leadership changes in 2011, Kyron’s case had What FBI attention?
“posting”
cd says:
June 25, 2012 at 7:29 pm
(snipped)
Why would LE ask if anyone had seen TH’s truck at the two Fred Meyer stores and not want to know if witnesses saw TH and the truck at Albertsons?
********************
Okay, just a thought, perhaps Albertsons had video cams of the entire parking area, and Fred Meyers did not? I know I looked at our local FM store, and I couldn’t tell for sure, but I only *saw* cameras placed near the front of the store, didn’t see any out at the far ends of the parking lot, like on light posts, etc., areas where LE had claimed Terri had parked (near a wall) in their fliers. I really thought, at the time, when LE released the photos and the pan-over said something like Terri’s parking space and view from Terri’s parking space, that LE was trying to *substantiate* Terri’s claims of where she was when. IOW, Terri said she had parked in space X, and LE was trying to determine firstly if that’s where she parked and only secondly if someone saw anything suspicious. JMO, but that’s what I thought.
I don’t know if this was posted here before, but I hadn’t seen it. Article about Houze. I just found this last paragraph very intersting.
(snipped)
“This is work I love to do because it’s something I embrace and believe in,” Houze said. “I truly can’t think of anything I’d be more suited to do or that would hold my interest the way this does. Our clients are real people. They have families and children and their futures are at risk. It’s the responsibility and a privilege for a lawyer to stand up and defend another person.”
As one of Portland’s most prominent criminal defense attorneys, and with a roster of highly visible and highly emotional cases, Houze has received his share of negative comments. He said he has never feared for his life, though, and considers it all part of the package.
“Sometimes a case that is high profile will generate comments from detractors about either me or the role of the defense lawyer or my client. It just kind of comes with the territory,” he said.
As PowerPoint, iPads and other technological advances increasing play roles for trial attorneys, Houze prefers to stick to his tried-and-true method of winning through the power of the spoken word.
“I’m just old school,” he said. “I happen to think it’s more effective to stand in front of people and say what is right.”
http://djcoregon.com/news/2012/04/13/rule-of-the-law-constitutional-rights-fuel-stephen-houze%E2%80%99s-passion-for-the-practice/
*************
So, this is what’s interesting to me, this is the only thing we’ve really heard Houze say in regard to his client Terri Horman:
Attorney Stephen Houze said Terri Horman has agreed to leave the home and has worked to make sure Kiara and Kaine have the necessary possessions they need.
“It is simply a matter of logistics,” Houze said. “It is not a simple matter to pick up everything and simply be gone.”
He also said Terri Horman has been the subject of threats, considering what he called the “media frenzy” and “witch hunt” aimed at his client. There have been “threats of harm routinely directed towards my client, which I take very seriously,” he said.
Houze told the court he didn’t understand why Kaine Horman would put his temporary address in the restraining order petition, when he could have chosen not to do so. He said he wonders how serious Kaine Horman’s safety concerns are, considering “they revealed to my client where he was staying.” He also argued that Terri Horman wasn’t prohibited from sharing the information, though a judge had sealed the order.
“It is one of the utmost concerns of my client that her daughter be in a safe, well-cared-for circumstance,” Houze said.
**************
Wow, I was only looking for the witch hunt stuff, but holy cow, how did I miss that KH was not required to put his current/teno address in that paperwork…..and that Terri was not prohibited from sharing it?
Dang, I wish I understood law better.
Note new Portland FBI facility.
OT love to know who owns Molasky Group of Las Vegas
http://www.gsa.gov/portal/content/137515
getting a number of build to order buildings the GSA guarantees to long term rent.
Profitable in a lousy commercial bldg economy
answered my own Q:
http://molaskyco.com/irwin-molasky.html
Here’s at least one of the owners.
not an inspiring picture.
Now correct me as needed:
The Vegas building scene went completely bust.
Someone in Bush’s Fed. cabinet threw him highly lucrative bldg contracts where you build to order and have your long term, reliable tenant locked in with a virtual in perpetuity income rental stream. He has friends.
Anyway, this new bldg in Portland took 18 months it says.
Lots of construction workers & supervisors passing through town from Vegas?
(other companies are in url re bldg opening). So this all began to roll about June 2010?
who would think to investigate GSA, Molasky & contractors & subs brought in to
work the new FBI bldg from Vegas or elsewhere?
look at the incredibly lucrative Fed bldg projects this co got under GB:
http://molaskyco.com/government.html
mob ties?
http://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblogs/news-ticker/2012/may/30/storied-mobsters-associate-gives-big-to-prop-b-and/
Sen Maj leader H Reid threw Portland and other FBI & Fed bldgs to Molasky.
So much for competitive bids by the GSA.
Lots going on in 2010 to absorb Portland FBI Field Office Dir attention
In a recent trip through the Beaverton area I took the time to drive some more roads and to re-visit Fred Meyer Walker Road. I have visited Fred Meyer Imbrie a couple of times. I am in no way as familiar with these places as locals, but I do have some impressions. I was mainly interested in where Terri parked the truck, how far that was from entrances, how obscured these parking places were, where the children’s OTC medications were and the location of Starbucks at each place.
Upon returning I compiled images concerning both Fred Meyer stores, some with location and distance annotations. I share them below.
The pictures put out by MCSO certainly give the impression that Terri parked the truck, Kaine’s truck, far far away from the entrances, even including in the caption “on the ‘far’ rock wall” (actually just wa). On site, the distances did not seem all that far at all, around 200 feet in each case. Also, neither parking place was particularly out of the way, in fact, I would expect each place had at least enough traffic passing by or parking near by to make one uncomfortable leaving something in a vehicle you wish not be found or conducting “business” you would prefer not be seen. There were other areas of both parking lots that were much farther away, 400-450 feet from an entrance, and much more private.
I have included a photo I took along the same sight line as MCSO’s Walker picture. My simple cell phone photo made the wall seem not as far away.
The F-250 Ford truck Terri was driving is about 21 feet long, while the Mustang is about 15 fee 6 inches long. The truck is 5 feet 6 inches longer a half a foot wider than the Mustang. It would make sense to me that she would park far enough away to have no one on either side of her so she could get her child out of the truck, and lessen the chance of a car being next to the truck when they returned. At Imbrie she could probably just drive the truck straight ahead and leave. However, at Walker she would have to back the truck out.
The Starbucks at Imbrie is inside the Fred Meyer store while the entry to the Starbucks at Walker is outside Fred Meyer. I don’t recall seeing any part of Starbucks on the inside of Fred Meyer Walker. My guess is Terri’s FB Fred Meyer friend, SG, worked at the Starbucks at the Imbrie site, but I also have not yet been able to establish that. I suppose someone could stop by, or call and ask. You might get an answer, or not.
I did not look for all the pay phones that might be interesting to some, but I did notice one at the east entrance to Fred Meyer Walker. It is not at all private being right next to an entry door. A picture is included below.
When I am in the area again and if I have time to visit these Fred Meyer locations again, I might look for obvious camera locations, additional pay phones, and maybe even inquire as to the current or past employment of SG.
My parking lot truck location guesses were based on the MCSO images. And, yes, I did amateurishly photoshop what I think is a white truck into those parking places. The original can be found in one of the overheads.
Thanks to spell check I have spelled entrance correctly every time, I hope.
There is a link to the album containing all the following images near the end of this post.
Don’t miss the OT at the very end.
MCSO Fred Meyer (Imbrie/Cornelius Pass).
http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m524/quizzi1/Fred%20Meyer%20Imbrie%20Walker/FredMeyerImbrieParkingWCap.jpg
Overhead of Fred Meyer (Imbrie).
http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m524/quizzi1/Fred%20Meyer%20Imbrie%20Walker/FMImb.jpg
MCSO Fred Meyer (Walker) picture.
http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m524/quizzi1/Fred%20Meyer%20Imbrie%20Walker/FredMeyerWalkerParkingWCap.jpg
Fred Meyer (Walker) picture I took recently (June 6, 2012) with my cell phone (3.2 res).
http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m524/quizzi1/Fred%20Meyer%20Imbrie%20Walker/FredMeyerWalkerParking.jpg
Overhead of Fred Meyer (Walker).
http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m524/quizzi1/Fred%20Meyer%20Imbrie%20Walker/FMWal.jpg
Starbucks with outside entry at Fred Meyer (Walker). Picture not mine.
http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m524/quizzi1/Fred%20Meyer%20Imbrie%20Walker/StarbucksWalker.jpg
For the interested, a picture I took of a pay phone by the east entry door to Fred Meyer Walker.
http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m524/quizzi1/Fred%20Meyer%20Imbrie%20Walker/FredMeyerWalkerPhone.jpg
Link to the album containing these Fred Meyer Imbrie & Walker images.
http://s1130.photobucket.com/albums/m524/quizzi1/Fred%20Meyer%20Imbrie%20Walker/
OT (I think) – The first listed Walker Starbucks review (6/9/2012) concerning FBI agents was interesting.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/starbucks-beaverton-3
(NelMel picks up her pasta bowl and hurls linguini this time….)
Meth.
Around my area, people who purchase the medicines that contain the ingredient for meth, knowing that it’s for making meth and not to treat those annoying seasonal allergies, are nicknamed “shoppers.”
I’ll explain with this quote from a news link in a central New York State newspaper. It describes a huge meth bust in an area of the state that has unfortunately become the equivalent of a strip mall for home meth labs. It’s huge because this newpaper’s circulation is in an area covering a small city of about 10,000 people and its small neighboring towns. In other words, 24 people is huge for them. There has been a big series of other, much smaller meth lab raids around NYS as well as this one:
“Duncan said law enforcement agents were able to zero in on the defendants by examining store records in the three-county area. They found the defendants, or people acting on their behalf, were traveling from store to store in order to buy a little at a time that would eventually add up to a large stockpile.”
http://www.oneidadispatch.com/articles/2012/06/12/news/doc4fd7854b9059a738490956.txt?viewmode=default
Now then.
Aside from her weight loss for a body building competition, which KH said involved taking OTC supplements that helped her drop the weight in months, I often noted that TH’s appearance at the family presser in June, 2010, presented to me a wiped out woman. She looked terrible, compared to her svelte hottie stage show during her only competition. I could be generous and uncatty and say things like, “well, she also had a baby the year before, etc., etc.,” but I won’t.
Considering all the theories about Kyron over 2 years, bear with me.
Meth ruins your appearance. You look like an anoxeric tree log minus teeth and personality if you are a meth addict for a while. But one thing I have read about recovering addicts — they complain about big weight gain after getting clean. Not just packing back what they first lost, but sometimes, ballooning. Their skin is raggy. They look bleh for quite some time.
Yet some who get busted for meth, and even go through detox for it, or somehow manage to stop using it with a solo superhuman effort, might find themselves still tied to the old crowd who makes money via meth.
Was TH a “shopper?” KH was at Intel’s location often enough to allow TH a life as a stay-at-home mom that included being able to drive around without him necessarily knowing where she was all day. Who’s going to question a doting housewife with children purchasing medicine, since three kids, of course, do get sick, and not all at the same time. Hey, how to run your own home biz in your jammies!
Meth people are vicious. The busts here have included finding guns, and are usually tied to things like assaults, robbery, burglary, domestic violence, child abuse, self-abuse, stolen credit or debit cards, animal abuse, elder abuse, etc. The rat is hunted down and punished. Paranoia is a common experience among them.
So….let’s say that TH was a “shopper” and was making some money doing so.
The link I included above relays that the feds, not just local LE, was involved in that story’s meth busts. It indicates that the investigation took a year’s time.
If TH was involved in a meth network, even if she didn’t use it (anymore, or ever), it’s fast cash and it’s dangerous and it’s a big, big problem all over the country. Meth communities are tight, and people in them who betray the community by stiffing people on money, for example, do not walk around feeing very safe. “Shoppers” are usually users, but, some are not, or, they are ex-users who still want the cash flow, or they live with a person who is still a user. Enablers with extra spending money.
Is this possibly something that could have been being investigated, or is still being investigated, hence the total secrecy about Kyron and about TH from LE?
Could SZ be a meth person — not a user, so much as a person who new the meth people locally, might have been another shopper? Someone TH burned when she might have bailed on dealing or shopping?
Meth makes people nuts, resentful, suspicious, moody, vindictive, etc. It makes people turn horrible.
Fred Meyers have several departments; grocery, deli, bakery, butcher, seafood, Starbucks, and they also have electronics, housewares, sporting goods, clothes, jewelry, pharmacy, hardware and garden supply and a bank.
Albertsons OTOH, has the grocery, deli, butcher, baker, seafood, like Freddies and Sav-On Pharmacy and some have banks, but none of the other amenities.
Was TH going pharmacy to pharmacy to pharmacy? IDK. Bank to bank to bank? IDK. But, to be blunt, she could get a tarp, a shovel and duct tape at one store. Haven’t we all seen the crime stories of the dumb a$$ on tape going into Home Depot standing at the register and coming out with a container and a shovel? Who would be so dumb as to buy those things on the very day they conspire with someone else (which would take substantial pre-planning) and then go buy the shovel at one store, the duct tape at another, and the tarp at another. It makes no sense to me. I believe what Blink has stated that her purchases threw up red flags, but what could they be?
@Rose, Reading your list, which I agree and embrace, Kyron might as well have been standing in the middle of downtown Portland by himself, based on the exposure to all the people you only have begun to list. IMO, all the kids at that school were theoretically standing in the middle of downtown Portland alone.
erose says:
June 25, 2012 at 1:02 am
Hi WPG, Good point. I have always wondered what his investigative team turned up. Let’s say TH did this. Are we (majority of posters here) in agreement that she did not physically take him? If so, then wouldn’t Houze try and get her some kind of deal?
———————-
@erose –
If we say for the sake of argument that TH did this, then I think we are all confident now that Terri didn’t go back into the school to get Kyron and didn’t take her with him when she left.
The only other option if guilty, IMO, is for Terri to have gotten someone else to help her reconnect with Kyron. Yes, she could have let someone else handle it all, but if she hated him so much, I lean toward her taking part somewhere along the way. I wish we knew the time she went to Albertson’s. If Blink is correct about LE’s attention being drawn to what (unknown to us) items TH purchased, then she would have taken those items to the site of what happened or used them to clean up later.
As good as Houze is, he must still get approval from his client who must believe that making a deal is the best way to go. Offering to make a deal seems like admitting guilt for something, and if she believes there’s not enough for a conviction, why admit to any guilt? And besides, do we really think Terri has been totally and completely honest with Houze – “Steve aka lawyer extrordainairre” (sic)”?
We really don’t know whether Houze believes she has anything to offer in a deal – either because she knows nothing, or because she hasn’t told him anything he can use.
link for quote: http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/kaine_horman_calls_his_estrang.html
@Blink,
I have seen you mention TMH on Albertson’s video twice now. There could be more but I have not found them, yet. I have also included your Tuesday 15 June 2010 10:37 am article asking for road videos from June 3 & 4. At one time I thought the videos requested for Albertson’s (and possibly the Fred Meyer stores) were for the 3rd and 4th also, but I cannot find that definitively.
Are you on record that TMH is on June 4 video at the Beaverton-Hilldale Albertson’s?
——————————————————–
http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/09/09/kyron-horman-missing-case-review-and-birthday-wishes-to-the-frog-prince/comment-page-49/#comment-1627637
Stars says:
October 4, 2010 at 9:20 am
August 29, 2010 at 7:59 pm
Yes.. Kiara. I am not convinced she was with Terri at the school, or at any time up until the gym. I am not saying it is not possible, but as an analyst, I could not put that on my “verified” list. B
Blink,
Do you know now if Kiara was at the SCIENCE FAIR?
Thank you…..
She was holding her in her arms at the Fred M when speaking to a witness, so that is all I can verify 100%. I do have some knowledge there is video of her with Kiara that day, but I heard it was Albertson’s.
B
——————————————————
http://blinkoncrime.com/2012/06/11/kyron-horman-missing-case-breaking-news-remains-believed-to-be-human-located-off-sauvie-island/comment-page-9/#comment-1925014
erose says:
June 25, 2012 at 1:04 am
Why was in not reported anywhere, but from Blink through a source, that TH was at Albertsons? Why does LE find it important to keep that piece of information a secret?
~snip
I know she is on CCTC footage inside Albertsons.
~snip
B
———————————————–
http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/06/15/kyron-horman-missing-and-endangered-john-walsh-on-today-show-media-will-solve-this-case/
~snip
Recently, a list of roadways was provided to the media the MCSO is seeking any traffic video footage from June 3rd and June 4th. Did Kyron’s perpetrator make a dry run Thursday, June 3rd?
Video footage: The Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office is seeking video of traffic on 15 Portland roads taken June 3 and June 4, the day Kyron Horman disappeared. Call the search tip line and leave your contact information and the location or street address where you took the footage. The streets: Northwest Cornelius Pass Road, Northwest Germantown Road, Northwest Logie Trail Road, Northwest Rocky Point Road, Northwest Skyline Road, Northwest 185th Avenue, Northwest West Union Road, Northwest Springville Road, Bethany Boulevard, Northwest Newberry Road, Northwest McNamee Road, U.S. 30 between Northwest Rocky Point Road to Northwest Germantown Road, Northwest Kaiser Road, Northwest Thompson Road, Northwest Laidlaw Road.
~snip
I am on record she was captured on video at an Albertson’s, I could not say it’s location with certainty without consulting my notes which would not be possible due to some other projects I have running on my system at the moment.
B
I will let IT know , thank you, and no, not on my end so I will check it out.
B
Yes, I have him. B
*******
Speculation only as to what a note as such may mean.
1. No worry TH I have Kyron as we planned.
2. I have your step son because you slept with my dead husband which I found out after he died and I then cancelled the memorial for him. This may explain people parked near my home looking for what I am doing and if I have your step-son.
3. I have your son because you slept with my husband who worked for you and now I am gone with 2 children and so is your son.
4. I have your son because I slept with you and my wife found out and she left me with 2 small children and it is your fault.
5. I have your son because you called the law about an altercation and sent them to my family’s home and caused multiple problems for me and I was not even the one you had an altercation with.
6. I have your step-son because I use to be married to you and you have been stringing me along off and on and I even paid child support for a child that was not mine. You and your current love will now pay the price.
7. I have your son because I have tried to have relations with other men but I love you and with him gone Kaine will blame you and leave you and then I can have you.
8. I have your step son because I have read that you hate him and I am a sicko that loves little boys.
9. I have your son…Guess who.
Again all speculation but did TH have so many outside players in her life that they can not figure out who would want to put her in this situation with a missing child. Does LE think it is isolated because Kyron was targeted due to TH’s involvement with someone who is SZ or knows SZ..
Two things hit me that is making me believe this cannot be a random attack………. How would SZ know where to return Kyron’s glasses to?? And……. TH does not act like an innocent person. They both scream at me. It seems more logical given the info I do know that TH was involved. My brain refuses to accept anything else.
If it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck………..???
interpretable means like the cut wound in WM3?
or like the car parker’s clothes in Kesse?
So if we apply our collective minds to “random stranger” organized & meticulous
and violence is part of the MO, where do we thinkers go from here, Blink?
we are in no position to milk the 490 memories for description and publish it to public. Skyline staff needed to be squeezed for drmograpics of any contractor/sub or stranger seen there in first half of 2010. Of course there were all those community work days to scope out the bldg
Seems to me the caliber of the FBI Field Office Director at the time of Kyron’s abduction speaks for itself that he was retired not long after arriving in Portland and only 3 months into a major FBI Bldg project there. He didn’t wait for his successor to be available either. There was a leadership hiatus, then the replacement Director 11 months ago had as his publicized focuses from Washington: “Counter-terrorism”; finishing/move-in to the spiffy bldg; and underage prostitution/pimps, etc. He sure wouldn’t jeopardize the major parts of his portfolio by rocking the boat with “Unopposed Underhill.” PS Lot’s of unopposed politicians in PA’s Happy Valley too.
Kyron was the perfect storm subject not only of a hot mess parental pool but ditto on MCSO (read Guito papers) and FBI Field Office leadership flux and priorities.
Although OT, I thought this was an interesting commentary from True Nelson regarding sexual predators, grooming, etc.:
“(snipped):”Because of predators like Jerry Sandusky, all men become potential suspects – at times considered guilty until proven innocent. Having been in law enforcement, I was well aware of the possibility of compromise. Furthermore and sadly, we often find that predators are attracted to venues where they can socialize with children. They are searching for the vulnerable, the unattended, and the lonely. It’s the parents’ responsibility to protect their children. It’s the parents’ responsibility to make contingency plans to have their children picked up from school or community events if they are to be late or unavailable.
Jerry Sandusky was / is a special case. He was a sophisticated predator in the extreme. Nonetheless, where were the parents or guardians? Where were the other adults who could have seen and/or suspected Sandusky’s nature? Where was Dottie?
I’d be willing to bet that through the years there have been many adults who sensed the danger Sanduskyposed for young boys. How many times was it said? ‘Hey kid, stay away from that guy. He’s a pervert.”
True Nelson”
#14 – I missed it somewhere – where were the glasses found? Thanks!
@Rose
(“snipped) @Lyla. I know Portland was still in wet/cold weather
June 4. Neverthess, what professional mower would cut a soccer
field early in the morning with dew still present, even if readying
for youth games the next day. Much less with 200 plus extra cars parked
all around & going in and out…the hours were clearly visible. He could’ve come in at 10
and gone for coffee first.
Also, he was quite the mechanic. His job called for
him to work on & repair the mowing machines indoors in winter.
Who’d want in early spring, just getting back in the swing,
to dull those blades with wet grass clumps. Imo any caretaker who’d sharpened
the blades and is as detailoriented as DS would mow in the early afternoon
when some sun had burned off the dew.”
————————————————————
Coincidental, is it not, he was there during the time TH was and they both left around the same time and that’s all I will say, coincidental.
So were nearly 3oo other people.
B
Sorry, forgot my link to Houze’s statements:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kaine_horman_urges_judge_to_fo.html
I, too, cannot wrap my mind about this possibly being random. There are too many factors in place that point to a conspiracy. Kyron left his belongings in the school but that could make sense in so many scenarios not involving a stranger to stranger. Also, even if there was no doctor’s appointment Terri still could have led Ms Porter and/or Kyron to believe there was which bought more time for the abductor.
I think back to late summer 2010 when the call went out to numerous other LE districts in the surrounding Portland area requesting help with the investigation. Most or all of the districts whose help was requested bordered the Columbia River and waterways and the area of the airport.
‘You’ll be surprised’ means LE was surprised. Things they wish they didn’t know that stresses out the investigators? LE sees all kinds of ugly things… IMO it would take a lot to stress out an entire group of them. I also remember several pedophiles and predators being caught in northern Oregon in the months after this comment was made. One a teacher and one in LE, IIRC, plus others.
We know the odds are slim, but if this is a totally random abduction from a school, like Stacie Wilmoth’s was back in 1978, and since we know from history that victims of pedophiles often become pedophiles themselves, and Stacie’s abductor was never caught, what is the possibility that the abductor of Kyron is a victim of Stacie’s abductor? What are the odds, I wonder. Perhaps this newly created pedophile knew what his molester had done to Stacie and was possessed to repeat history.
If Kyron’s abductor was a total stranger, and did not in some way belong to the school or know Kyron in any way, then would would possess this person to enter a crowded school and literally repeat history?
http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=127604789675353300
@Blink
(snipped) Coincidental, is it not, he was there during the time TH was and they both left around the same time and that’s all I will say, coincidental.
So were nearly 3oo other people.
B
——————————————————————
Absolutely…one or more than one could have had a motive. Blink, did I hear you say earlier on SZ was not on the list?
Not.
B
Okay, so SZ is not on the list. He’s not recognized by anyone at the SF that we’re aware of. LE is unable to link him to Terri in a substantive way. I believe for several months after the abduction he engaged LE and Kaine so he’s an arsehole not only for what he is capable of but in his everyday activites with others I would be willing to bet he is not well liked. He’s confident and knows how to walk and behave with an air of cockiness. Blink stated early on he may be off the grid.
SZ was either in disguise or he is not from the Skyline area. IMO he was at the school on June 3rd and therefore knew the general layout. He only needed moments to goad Kyron out of the school. I don’t believe he is still in the area but I do believe he will resurface because he got a lot of self gratification out of what he has done.
Blink, do you have SZ description? Do you believe it’s the older white man in the SF photo with the facial hair?
MockingbirdSings says:
June 26, 2012 at 3:10 am
erose says:
June 25, 2012 at 1:02 am
Hi WPG, Good point. I have always wondered what his investigative team turned up. Let’s say TH did this. Are we (majority of posters here) in agreement that she did not physically take him? If so, then wouldn’t Houze try and get her some kind of deal?
@erose –
If we say for the sake of argument that TH did this, then I think we are all confident now that Terri didn’t go back into the school to get Kyron and didn’t take her with him when she left.
————–
I believe that blink has told us multiple, numerous, many times that she is absolutely positive that kyron did NOT leave the school withTerri. So I tend to think that Kyron did NOT leave the school with Terri at any time on june 4.
I know for certain that Kyron did not leave Skyline School with Terri Horman.
B
Is there enough for me to see a motive tied to Terri? Yes, on the surface, because I think sometimes people think a motive has to make sense. It does not. I keep going back to one thing. Kyron did not leave the school with Terri Horman that day. If he had, she would be in jail for something, make no mistake about that. They published Dede flyers and truck flyers and Terri flyers and to date, they cannot and do not have a witness or shred of evidence that Kyron left with her. They are looking for a 3rd person because there IS a third person
. B
Cindy says:
June 26, 2012 at 10:27 am
#14 – I missed it somewhere – where were the glasses found? Thanks!
————
We have never heard on blog or in any news media that Kyrons glasses were found. The glasses being found is only a speculation on this blog by the readers and Blink.
lyla says:
June 26, 2012 at 1:04 pm
@Blink
(snipped) Coincidental, is it not, he was there during the time TH was and they both left around the same time and that’s all I will say, coincidental.
So were nearly 3oo other people.
B
——————————————————————
Absolutely…one or more than one could have had a motive. Blink, did I hear you say earlier on SZ was not on the list?
Not.
B
Sorry Blink, but I don’t understand. How could anyone know that SZ is not on the list if no one knows who SZ is? Does that mean that everyone that is on the list has been cleared? Thanks.
When this hit the news it was an OMG moment for me how something could occur in broad daylight. When someone is hellbent on committing a crime they don’t even think of the risk of getting caught. This happened to me early evening still light and on a busy street.
I was victimized by a jogger in the early 1980′s while I was walking down a well lit main street in SE Portland. He jogged past me and immediately threw his arm around my throat and started dragging me into the bushes. I had less than a second to try and break his hold. I told him I had drugs and he loosened his grip long enough for me to get a look at him and he appeared to be high on something. He quickly reached for my arm and I broke and threw myself into oncoming traffic. Several cars witnessed the attack and a couple in a van got out of their truck and gave me a lift home. A county investigator showed up at my house an hour later and took the report. There were a lot of witnesses who came forward. After I got home I looked in the mirror and my face was scratched and bloody (trying to remove his grip), I had gravel ground in my knees from being drugged on the pavement. The officer looked at me after taking the report and told me I was very lucky. Now in 2012 this is the first I heard they caught this dude. So there is hope..
http://www.kgw.com/news/Jogger-rapist-Gillmore-denied-parole-158958385.html
1. lyla, I am so glad you were not hurt worse. You listened to your satellites.
2. This is an example of poor investigative work. I am about to start a mission that only sex crime investigators should investigate sex crimes, period.
3. This guy gets out, I guarantee you he will be acting out immediately, and he will look to apply all his new skills he learned in “school.”
Sick effwad.
B
Regarding Terri’s facebook post in the beginning the Kyron was seen with a male chaperone and 2 girls.
I am assuming that when it was discovered that Kyron had been missing for the entire day and people were notified, someone or a couple people may have stated they saw Kyron with the man and 2 girls and the way Terri stated it, it seems as it was something told to her and Kaine. Also, that there was not a male chaperone listed on the volunteer sheet.
It has been stated on here that there is a description of SZ.
Now, LE says Terri was the last “known” person to see Kyron, DY and KH suspect Terri did it alone or with help.
So, (beating head on the table) WHY not release the description!
I have wondered if Terri going from store to store
Was a shoplifter
Going out every day
Throw tomatoes now
Lol, no maters at Malty!
B
**Forgot to add, the reasoning stated over and over is to protect the investigation and/or witnesses.
Now, any and everyone would much rather have Kyron found than protect a investigation or trial, justice would be served in the end but better with the child located and a suspect identified. Then if it is the case, let the suspects accuse each other.
@Lyla
Just awful I am glad you got away
This is a real fear for us all
@Quizzical, what time of day were you at FM Walker? Good Lord, I think I see my car! LOL!
P.S. Notice how people rarely park on that back wall. Yes, I know she was driving a big truck though.
Darn, hit send too fast. Quizzical, I didn’t see the second Starbucks at Imbrie on your drawing. It’s a free standing store with it’s own entrance just to the left of the one you marked Starbucks inside.
@Blink. The amazing thing was the lawn mower was in fact there withh 300 other people and told police it just looked “like a normal day” to him. Now that doesn’t ring true. Not that I’m accusing him, but his otherwise “normal” behavior is “interpretable.”
Blink’s “not” rules out Stenson and the 490
#37 – Some people just can’t stay home. I knew a woman who was out everyday. Just a housewife with three kids and she would go out to get kids lunch, bank, whatever, I think it was a form of escape.
NelMel says:
“(NelMel picks up her pasta bowl and hurls linguini this time….)”
mas says:
“So, (beating head on the table) WHY not release the description!”
I can soooo relate to these feelings and if I didn’t think there was a chance of getting charged for interfering with a criminal investigation, I’d find a way to get those “LE = SZ description?” billboards up.
Blink, is it possible LE has not released the info/description of SZ because they didn’t and don’t want TH’s legal to get hold of it and use it? Could it be down to such bulloney . . . and possible disregard to the community that this may not be an isolated incident?
I think it goes wider that that wpg.
B
Arghhhh . . . just remembered the Councilor asking the D.A. “Are we on the right track?”
@Lyla, OMG, “they caught this dude!” What a terrifying experience, when throwing yourself into traffic is a better option then staying where you are, you know it’s bad. May he never get out.
@Blink, For them to say not on this list, they must know who it is, otherwise how else could 490 people be definitively excluded. So if they know, then is he either already incarcerated or disappeared or untouchable or IDK.
@cd, I believe he did not leave with TH, just wasn’t sure if we were all on the same page. Are we now to the point that we all believe that TH did not take him, and have moved on to the question of her involvement?
@Ode, That was great! #2 hit me like a ton of bricks, fwiw.
@MBS, I know what you are saying. Some defense attorneys say they don’t want the truth from their clients, only a truthful answer to the questions they ask. A totally innocent person might hold out, and a guilty person might never crack.
@Classygal99, Those glasses do seem to send a message, but to whom, only TH?
@NelMel, meth, meth, meth. Great thoughts. BTW, what do your walls look like, lol?
Technically, I have never heard any exclusions to date, I would have to believe though that the simplest answer if they believe so strongly TH is involved, is to start with who they can connect her to and work the list.
B
Blink,
IIRC, isn’t there statistical geoghrapy with respect to where a random perv lives and where the crime occurs and also as to where the body may be found?
Isn’t it something like within a 30 mile radius dependent upon the age of the victim?
Also, is there any profile or statistical reason why the perv would venture outside of the above geography, (statistically)
TIA
NO, there is not.
We cannot apply general statistics to a case with such limited known and verifiable information, especially considering the variables of an unknown offender or SZ.
B
The Albertson’s connection has always puzzled me. While sometime on the 3rd or 4th she could have been at Albertson’s Beaverton-Hilldale, it always seemed to make more sense that TMH was at the West Union/185th location on June 4th. It is on two of the streets/roads for which MCSO requested video, and I think it is the closest major grocery store to the Horman household. I am aware many others have discussed this location.
It is a fairly quick trip north on 185th to Germantown Road, a short distance west to Cornelius Pass Road then over the pass at Skyline Blvd. and down to Sheltered Nook. If TMH did shop at the 185th Albertson’s would it have been before or after she went to 24-hour fitness. I would think the later. If it was a typical grocery shop she couldn’t rule out before hand that she would be buying food requiring refrigeration. In either hypothetical scenario it would have to fit into her timeline, whatever it is believed to have been.
When in the area I was thinking more along the lines that video from outside cameras may have recorded the Horman truck passing by on 185th. Below I include a link to an album of a few images relating to that possibility.
http://s1130.photobucket.com/albums/m524/quizzi1/Albertsons%20185th/
NelMel–if TMH was a “shopper” she will be on the state mandated tracking system ‘if’ it was in place at the time. You know how us normal folks can’t buy products containing psudoephedrine without going to the pharmacy and scanning our ID’s? I guess if she was buying this stuff it will be on record somehow but included in a investigation that seems never ending on lock down forever!