Kyron Horman Missing Case Breaking News: Remains Believed To Be Human Located Off Sauvie Island
Sauvie Island, Oregon-There are unconfirmed reports that a teenage boy fishing off of Sauvie Island located a human skull, and potentially other human body parts.
Update 1: As referenced on KOIN, a teenage fisherman believes he snagged a scalp with human hair attached, which he originally thought was horse hair. Columbia County detectives cordoned off the scene last evening and MCSO dive teams entered the water but found nothing. The possible “hair” was sent for testing.
Multnomah County Sheriff Office will not comment on the find, or confirm whether their office has facilitated the removal of same, or forwarded any items to the medical examiner for testing.
Following the disappearance of Kyron Horman, Sauvie Island has been the subject of repeated searchers for the missing Skyline second grader with no results.
It is also the former home of a man considered to be Federal fugitive following a confrontation with a Lincoln City officer with nearly fatal results. Officer Steven Dodds was able to return to duty after extensive rehabilitation.
Durham was a Sauvie Island resident for over 6 years and a volunteer fire fighter until he was removed from duty 6 months prior to the shooting.
David Durham’s dog was recovered injured following what appeared to be an accident in the suspects vehicle and is being cared for by a friend of the family. Mr. Durham has not been seen since his vehicle was recovered in the bay town of Waldport, Oregon.
Please check back to www.blinkoncrime.com for updates to this breaking story.
Related Posts
Related Posts:
2,365 Comments
RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI
@Rose says:
August 6, 2012 at 8:34 am
Is the Sauvie Island FD next to a school?
Malty says:
August 6, 2012 at 5:53 am
And if Dede could have walked to Skyline
I am shocked
I never knew that
She remains a big mystery to me
I do think she lied about how close she was to the family and
Terri
Why?
——-
Hi Malty – Just FYI, the farm DDS was at is 4.5 miles from Skyline Elem. Walkable but it would be quite a trek, all uphill too. But like I said, she was in the area, and that still bugs me.
********************
RedRose says:
August 5, 2012 at 3:33 pm
Snipped>>>>
Just so everyone here is aware — when and if they do find little Kyron…
@RedRose- Yes, you are right, and I realize these things, painful as it is. I think it will be a relief to know what happened regardless, and have done my best to prepare for whatever that turns out to be. I think now knowing is such torture, at least that is what people that have been through these things often say. Thank you for your concern, friend. We are all doing our best, I’m so glad to have all of you here, it has helped me a lot to have people to “chat” with.
This civil suit is fascinating in light of Aaron’s Law. I’m very interested in seeing how this plays out in the court.
http://www.aaronslaw.blogspot.com/
Nothing works in a kidnapper’s favor more than delaying proceedings, two years so far in the Kyron Horman case.
This is a good time to explain the law:
Oregon’s landmark anti-kidnapping statute, Senate Bill 1041 “Aaron’s Law”, is triggered when “a person” commits the crime of Custodial Interference in the First Degree.
1. Who: Note that the statute applies to “a person,” making no exceptions.
“A person”…”any person”…”each person”…”every person”…all the same. This reaches to all of those religious zealots and hypocrites out there…a church shunning can very well be a kidnapping.
2. What: DO NOT take, entice, keep (or conceal) a child in violation of these criminal statutes.
“A person commits the crime of custodial interference…if, knowing or having reason to know that the person has no legal right to do so, the person takes, entices or keeps another person from the other person’s lawful custodian or in violation of a valid joint custody order with intent to hold the other person permanently or for a protracted period.”
3. Where: DO NOT remove the child(ren) from the state of Oregon.
4. Why not: DO NOT expose the child(ren) “to a substantial risk of illness or physical injury.”
Abduction by any person—including a parent—is known to be as abusive to the child as any other form of abuse, and is often the gateway to other forms of child abuse.
The question is does Desiree have enough evidence to support her claim? My hunch is she does and my hope is the judge allows the case to go forward. No parent should have to wait indefinitely in the hopes LE finally decides they can proceed with an arrest and criminal trial. There should be some kind of time limit and two years seems sufficient in my own humble opinion.
Harleycolt says:
August 5, 2012 at 11:03 am
I can’t believe how many sicko’s there are out there. If you go to the the sex offender website & put in your zip code…or any zipcode for that matter you will find there are hundreds everywhere & these are just the one’s that got caught! This investigation regarding the rape of babies & children is horrorifying & I hope the law can do something to these worthless POS. I pray God sends them staight to hell.
__________
Totally agree! I checked our zip code and there are twelve (our area has the least per capita in our county but still). Eleven of the twelve are repeat offenders. My son actually asked me if he could see their pictures but I didn’t let him read what they had done, some of their crimes are horrific and with little tiny babies,some didn’t seem to care about age and offended against toddlers to teens.
I bet future generations will have changed the laws and incarcerate the predators permanently. Then they’ll wonder what was wrong with us for not seeing the logic in it sooner.
I have so much gratitude that LE is making every effort to find the victims in child porn and rescue them.
Rose says:
August 6, 2012 at 3:26 pm
@mbs. imo Houze would be unethical if he did not kerp confidential exculpatory evidence til trial.
It’s MCSO’s job to investigate the unknown male who abducted Kyron.
———————-
@Rose – I can understand that and I agree with you – if Houze actually had evidence or witnesses who would clear her, what would be the reason for all the delays in going to trial?
Just take this news item as a Desiree promotional on my part, to her benefit.
Roseburg Supports FB interest group, Desiree’s close collaborators in fundraising for the civil suit with Ramirez as her proxy, has placed on their site as well as Missing Kyron FB a petition on social media Change.org stating the signatories express their public interest which requires abatement denial.
Now this petition cannot come into the case unless submitted to the Court by Mr Rosenthal.
So since no member of the public in their right mind would sign a petition they don’t want Kyron found, this petition is a straw man, imo.
It does not represent a cross section of the Portland population.
I find it manipulative of social media and grossly unethical in a personal injury case. just my opinion.
What say you Lea? Any violation of Oregon Bar rules for Rosenthal to try a case this way?
Making poisoning the jury pool easier to prove when KGW advertises (oops, does a story on) this petition.
Re Mrs Gosch on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3uHlB7d5OE&feature=youtube_gdata_player
She must have been very young when her son was abducted. She was rural, and
she seems no smarter than Desiree. In many ways she had less going for her
than Desiree. All were against her, even LE. I think Mrs Gosch’s competence, progress and leadership came
from finding the right advisor — the right PI. Somehow Desiree has not turned to the right advisor.
Respectfully Suzanne, that link is on the site, and I am not in a position to promote it one way or another at this juncture.
B
Rose says:
August 6, 2012 at 10:47 pm
I find it manipulative of social media and grossly unethical in a personal injury case. just my opinion.
What say you Lea? Any violation of Oregon Bar rules for Rosenthal to try a case this way?
________
Maybe I misunderstand your post… are you saying Mr Rosenthal is responsible for this on line petition? Or Desiree?
If a member or members of the public has created a petition how is that unethical on Rosenthal or Desiree’s part? I think I don’t understand. Will you post a link please, Rose?
@mbs. exculpatory evidence does not equate with “clear”.
and trial data and credibility are in discretion of jury.
And Most Of All, in a civil trial, DA has to disclose ZERO exculpatory evidence and submit to
ZERO discovery.
Bottom line, there is no criminal case here. Or it would have been filed.
If a grand jury, who famously would indict a ham sandwich to get allegations before
a trier of fact won’t do it, Desiree’s in a fantasy land, and SHE IS BEING USED.
someone has tapped a friend imo
to collaborate on an end run around criminal rules of procedure.
Smells like a Friday fish dinner left on the table all weekend imo.
@Kat. It is precisely because Rosenthal is the preeminent PI attorney in town, if not the State, and is at the pinnacle of civil litigation, as well as a warmhearted (I suspect) civic leader not to mention motivation from family & faith, that I believe Mrs Young must have been steered to him by fellow attorneys interested in this case, a couple come to mind, through such intermediaries as Kaine or mcso.
As far as the cases adorning his resume ftom yore, yes he was associated in-State counsel for Metzger, but if local Bar doesn’t realize Southern Poverty Law Ctr litigated that case, they don’t know Morris Dees’ organization. He has his achilles heels and controversies, but his org
litigated that case.
The point is, “her”side (mcso/DA) vs “her” side (Houze) does nothing to advance Kyron’s interests if he was abducted by a predatory sexual offender.
@Kat. It’s late and maybe I’m not reading well. but on the Mayfield case you cite, Rosenthal’s role was once again to be the associated in-State counsel for the out of State firm of Gerry Spence (whom I’ve been recommending to Houze — yoo hoo — for this civil case) — for the pupose of ***settling ** Mayfield’s claims.
p 3 of 21: @Kat. It’s late and maybe I’m not reading well. but on the Mayfield case you cite, Rosenthal’s role was once again to be the associated in-State counsel for the out of State firm of Gerry Spence (whom I’ve been recommending to Houze — yoo hoo — for this civil case) — for the pupose of ***settling ** Mayfield’s claims.
p 3 of 21: http://www.rosenthal-greene.com/mayfield.pdf
I guess if Rosenthal’s good enough for Morris Dees, he’s good enough for Gerry Spence. I’m sure he’s a great civil attorney, who is very well connected locally in the Bar, and that is why SPLC & Spance associated.
but no one should cite those two cases for litigation prowess.
My hope is the Court quickly moves past this civil case so the public confronts the ineptitude of the governmental investigatory bodies. And get fresh eyes.
sorry for the double paragr before the relevant url
And how can that be when she is married to LE? I would expect her to have the inside information on who to turn to, who can help, who to hire, etc. I just don’t get it.
Rose says:
August 6, 2012 at 10:59 pm
snip>
Somehow Desiree has not turned to the right advisor.
one civil case you reference, Kat, is here under the heading White Aryan Resistance:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Poverty_Law_Center#section_2
Dees’ strategy with plaintiffs was simple. The entire goal of his civil litigation was to put organizations and their
members out of business by “financial depletion” tapping their personal resources,
the big money judgments being the means to that end.
Imo the main goal of this civil case, along the lines of ER’s mentors Dees and Spence, is financial depletion of
Moulton for the criminal case and the divorce. And in case I wasn’t clear, it is precisely due to ER’s litigation training
by Dees & Spencer, and his own competence and experience, that ER was retained. I was complimenting him. My intent was to convey Mrs Young didn’t hit the Bingo of Portland civil attorneys by her or her family’s yellow pages or googling. Someone laid this out for her and recommended ER.
@erose. turn your question around.
Mrs Young is married to, and imo psychologically dependent on after what some might say were periods of foundering maritally, medically, parenting, etc, a local LE detective.
Why would someone in that psychological position go private (out of the local LE orbit, as Mrs Gosch did) for advice?
Question: How do we know that LE does not know who suspect zero is and that he (SZ) simply has an alibi that LE has not (yet) been able to shoot bullets through?
JMO, if an 18-year old male is found to be physically and mentally fit to be accepted into the United States military, he should be then able of being deposed and giving testimony for a civil court proceeding.
If, IF concerns are put forth that being deposed or giving testimony would be emotionally detrimental to the individual, would any emotional fragility be taken notice of and investigated by the United States military?
I posted upthread a comment from someone who said a USB clip with child pornography had been found and was turned over to the police and it had Kyron on it. At first thought, I discounted this, but thinking more about it:
I’m thinking about Terri’s father’s 50/50 remark. So here’s a question, what if Terri or Kaine had been dropping Kyron off with a babysitter who is a pedophile, but totally unbeknownst to her/him? Or an acquaintance of the babysitter was the pedo. What if the pedophile baby sitter did in fact abuse Kyron and distribute pornographic photos of him. What if LE did receive a USB clip and it had Kyron on it, but they have no clue who took the pictures. Maybe this happened in 2010 and this is what made Jason Gates choke up and this is what turned this into a criminal investigation. Could LE tell *when* the pictures were taken? If they could, then they maybe knew that Terri was in charge of Kyron at that time, IOW, maybe Kaine was out of town on business, and so they feel Terri must know who took the pictures, but she doesn’t?
Maybe this is why she walked out of the LDT, because she knew she was being accused of having knowledge of said clip, and maybe she didn’t have any knowledge. Is it possible Kaine would have been told by LE about the clip, but not Desiree? Would explain why Kaine insists Kyron’s alive.
IDK, kinda far-fetched I guess, but I keep reading about all these mothers who had no clue their child was being abused by some *friend*.
@T.Ruth
(snipped) “IDK, kinda far-fetched I guess, but I keep reading about all these mothers who had no clue their child was being abused by some *friend*.”
———————————————————————-
I have more of a sense KH and TH’s alternative lifestyle had something to do with Ky’s disappearance, particulary DY’s remark about the choices KH made. The lifestyle, particularly adults with children would make anybody “choke up” particularly if they had such goings on in their home. jmo
wpg says:
August 7, 2012 at 11:32 am
JMO, if an 18-year old male is found to be physically and mentally fit to be accepted into the United States military, he should be then able of being deposed and giving testimony for a civil court proceeding.
_______
My thought exactly. I have an eighteen year old son. He could and would take the stand if he were called as a witness and has the strength of a young man that I’m sure James possesses as well. I do not see calling James to testify as being malicious in any way. He lived in the house and is in fact a witness. To not call him is unimaginable. Why wouldn’t he be called? This is all in preperations for a trial after all.
I found a very good attorney based on an internet search. Turns out she was one of the best in our county. No one suggested her, no one advised I go to her, I found her of my own accord. She was art in action, seriously that good.
@Rose, respectfully, it seems you have a perception of Desiree as weak and following the control of others, or as ‘psychologically dependant’. I have no issue with that but my perception differs.
Desiree is making choices to find the whereabouts of her missing son because LE has been unable to do so after more than two years. She would like to seek damages because she has what she believes is evidence that Terri took part in or orchestrated the disappearance of her child. If she can prove that in a civil court and the judge allows it to go forward then so be it. Desiree can’t wait forever hoping SZ is caught or comes forward and even if he does (may it be so) this civil suit could and would likely occur. I just don’t see this as a bad thing.
Maybe someone can explain why the civil suit is wrong? Leah, I too am hoping you will weigh in and explain this in layman’s terms.
@wpg. I’m hanging onto a “deposition 101″ ceu
brochure, so I’ll know more in Sept.
For now, someone educate me:
do deposition questions have to be “relevant”?
Can they just be fishing expeditions?
Regarding the usb clip….I think the story is actually a phone that was found at Wal-Mart in Florida with pictures of children being abused. The comment being discussed IMO was some one making something up yet using this story inaccurately.
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/07/02/lost-cell-phone-found-wal-mart-leads-child-porn-arrests
there’s a birthday powerpoint recently up on Kyron (Missing K , Roseburg, I forget where),
which in one pic has him in a cub scout like uniform behind what looks like a school, I think. went so fast, hard to tell. couldn’t stop it and go back. If SZ were known, he wouldn’t be a SZ. these kidnappings like Gosch look planned
with pics beforehand even. Perhaps an organized group does fish in targeted States or areas with inept LE. And when it works, they go back.
@T Ruth
Every time I think of Terri’s dad’s comment
About 50/50
I think of that fish dinner Rose talks about
@Amy’s Sister. Re link. Go to Missing Kyron Facebook, or Roseburg Supports Facebook, for a link to the petition. I’m not a FB member so don’t read the sites’ fine print.
Or maybe you could google it on change.org. I haven’t.
Who started it? it would take a subpoena and/or deposition of the social media site to find out, wouldn’t it?
I would be shocked if it were Rosenthal. However, I see no way it could come before the Court unless it is entered into evidence, and he’s the man for that. Unless it’s out there solely to taint a jury pool with no intent to enter into evidence. In that case, it’s duping the public that signs it. So in my opinion, either he’s lost control of his client or he by not taking action to limit it approves its use for either purpose (Court or media).
@ T Rith
But in fairness I think Terri’s Dad did say the media
Twisted he words or something like that
@Amy’s sister. idk Desiree’s role. I just read the sites’ publicity.
The majority of the material for some time put up on the Roseburg Supports FB page has imo
been direct promotional script and links and pictures to promote and fund Desiree’s lawsuit, including the petition. Recently in one case the site advertised a case-related kgw story before it aired. Since the suit was filed by Desiree and she presumeably signed a contract for attorney payment, arguably Ramirez and family are acting as her agents in this funding drive, and they are doing so in an arguable partnership with Roseburg Supports. So as a layperson it’s my opinion wrt to Desiree Houze would have an agency argument at a minimum.
Reminds me of Cook and the phones. Oh what a tangled web
wpg says:
August 7, 2012 at 11:32 am
JMO, if an 18-year old male is found to be physically and mentally fit to be accepted into the United States military, he should be then able of being deposed and giving testimony for a civil court proceeding.
If, IF concerns are put forth that being deposed or giving testimony would be emotionally detrimental to the individual, would any emotional fragility be taken notice of and investigated by the United States military?
———-
IMO I don’t think they really want any information James has that they don’t already have. I think that Rosenthal and all just want to drag James into their media circus cast some suspicion on him and make him part of his mothers mistakes as a way of putting pressure on Terri. Being seen on the news as a witness in this case and the public speculation that he may have somehow been involved could be a problem for him n the future. JMO I could be wrong.
googling kelly davidson ramirez, on mid p 1 of the results, I get
a line to click on that says “Justice For Kyron!By Desiree Young”
on clicking, it is the gofundme site “created by Kelly Ramirez”
with a new note posted by Mrs Ramirez “one hour ago” pleading
readers go to “Missing Kyron”
to sign the petition to deny abatement.
Whoever created and/or orchestrated the petition,
it is promoted by Mrs Young and Mrs Ramirez,
the fundraising agent for the suit. I would like a rep of the Oregon
Bar to opine on ethics. Think any reporter will call them up?
Nope, nor has one phoned Rosenthal’s office to find out if a trust was set up, not that I doubt Ms. Ramirez, I have no reason to, but that sort of situation might be construed as advertising, which is very much a Bar issue.
B
Just have to say: Desiree strikes me as a very strong person who will do nearly anything to bring her son home. Some may not agree on her tactics, but she certainly is doing all she can to keep the public’s attention on her missing son and pressure on those she thinks are responsible. I personally applaud her strength and grace in an impossible situation.
I agree with this wholeheartedly, but I also believe strongly she is being ill-advised.
B
I went to petition site. Created by an anonymous “Concerned Citizen” and addressed to the Circuit Court!
There was a prior change.org petition to mcso with 496 signatures asking for a case update originated by a “s green” in “Longview WA”.
I think it is extraordinary or the petition originator to attempt to influence the outcome
of a civil case, and the trier of fact’s deliberations, in this manner.
And combined with financial donations to litigation expenses ?
I am at a loss as to what Elden Rosenthal thinks he will be able to accomplish. Unless it is simply an attempt to get LE to DO something, then how do Desiree Young and Elden Rosenthal expect to get anything out of this trial when LE says this:
December 10, 1010:
“This is a marathon, not a sprint,” Capt. Jason Gates said.
They point to one undeniable fact: They lack any physical evidence of Kyron, or ***physical evidence that links anyone to his disappearance***.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/12/multnomah_county_sheriff_dan_s_2.html
I mean, if they lack ANY physical evidence that links ANYONE to his disappearance, how could Desiree Young think she has something to link Terri to his disappearance when the FBI, ICE, DEA, MCSO and all the other police departments involved cannot? Is Desiree keeping information from LE? If not, then where and what is this evidence, no matter how minute? Or does ER & DY think that a jury will decide Terri just must have done something because she’s…..well….she’s Terri and Terri wrote an email that Kyron was causing her some marital problems. I mean good grief, mixed marriages like this generally have problems with the children, I think more often than not from what I’ve seen and experienced. In my years, I’ve known many second marriages to break-up strictly because of the children, and in fact some of them have just decided to live apart but continue to date. In fact, disciplining children is probably one of the most reasons for arguments between parents in non-mixed marriages, probably right under the other controversial topic…..money and how it is spent. Sounds like the Horman’s had an issue there as well. Anyway, I’d be anxious to hear how or what someone thinks a jury, civil or otherwise would decide on if there is “no evidence linking anyone to his disappearance”. I just have a hard time believing someone like ER would take a case like this, unless they had *something*.
If they had anything that might progress the criminal matter, which they say is the goal, they would have handed it over to the DA. This suit is in fact, the epitome of an attempt at a civil proceeding determining a criminal act that the LEA tasked to do so cannot.
The DA owns this case right now, and Rosenthal knows he has a better chance at succeeding with a FOIA request of limited scope than throwing this against the wall.
Again, I am repeating myself with limited time or energy (sorry, I am told it will get better) I admit, but when I saw the actual words “the trail is growing cold” I nearly fell over.
The trail to where? That would be skyline, an unamed party. Unreal.
B
erose says:
August 7, 2012 at 7:30 am
And how can that be when she is married to LE? I would expect her to have the inside information on who to turn to, who can help, who to hire, etc. I just don’t get it.
Rose says:
August 6, 2012 at 10:59 pm
snip>
Somehow Desiree has not turned to the right advisor.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hi erose, how are you?
There has been some talk about a PI with many questioning why DY or KH hasn’t hired one. We don’t know that a PI hasn’t been working this case.
With a lawyer like Rosenthal, I would say DY’s direction right now is spot on. I don’t see her as any shrinking or misguided violet when it comes to seeking any and all answers regarding what happened to her child. I support her and her choices 100%.
after reading the tos of change.org:
http://www.change.org/about/terms-of-service
and
http://www.change.org/about/community-guidelines
It’s my opinion either an attorney drafted it for a layperson to carefully avert tos violations (like a claim of stalking) and to emphasize the notion of “public purpose,” or a person wrote it
who considers self very versed in the law and very motivated for its successful use. To me, paragr 3 of the letter petition is reminiscent of Mr Cruz’ writings on his blog and on recent OLive articles about the case, especially his oft repeated phrase “first in the nation”
How many “insert themselves” have we seen in this case?
Rudy’s explainable under the cya principle.
Then there was Mike, and Jason. There’s always room for more.
I can’t imagine another missing child case with this degree of intense “splitting.” The case investigatory team itself imo needs a forensic team consultant familiar with impact of Borderlines on team treatment, investigatory, and other social systems.
O there is definitely more.
B
wpg says:
August 7, 2012 at 11:32 am
JMO, if an 18-year old male is found to be physically and mentally fit to be accepted into the United States military, he should be then able of being deposed and giving testimony for a civil court proceeding.
If, IF concerns are put forth that being deposed or giving testimony would be emotionally detrimental to the individual, would any emotional fragility be taken notice of and investigated by the United States military?
———————————————
I’m not sure we are all seeing the protective order in the same way. Some seem to think Terri was trying to keep James from testifying out of concern for James, but others online have commented that a “protective order,” it is to “protect” the information so it is not used in court or so that it is sealed even if someone is deposed, or maybe to be sure they see the questions in advance or have someone representing Terri present at the time. In that case, Terri would be protecting herself again, not James.
Can we get a “ruling” on which is correct? I’ve been reading the local court rules and other articles and cannot find the description that would answer this question for certain so that we can all be on the same page. Protecting the information would make a lot more legal sense to me in this context.
just now googling, I see this recent civil case filing has spawned numerous blog entries & media comments by Mr Cruz, whose childrens’ case is so dissimilar to Kyron’s abduction.
In this one he reveals his motivation: he says it’s an election year and a Mormon is running for President!
http://blogoliticalsean.blogspot.com/2012/07/understanding-aarons-law-pt-1-trigger.html?m=1
In the interests of justice, should the Court accept “the petition,” a subpoena on change.org should be granted to
determine who Concerned Citizen is to investigate attempts to manipulate this case for personal agendas.
more research, sorry.
I like transparency.
Cruz published this on the blog url above on 7/31:
“There are a lot of people close to the Kyron Horman case looking at a completely new application of law right now, intruding at a time when both the criminal and family law systems are failing and time is marching on, and yet a child is still missing, and note the use of the word “intruding.””
Desiree’s suit was filed 8/2. So, now we know one advisor in the loop.
Mike. Jason. Sean. What’s with this case?
Cruz said, on 7/31 before the case was filed in the context of Desiree filing a case against Terri: ”Attention is about to go nationwide. Believe it! There is a presidential election at stake, with a Mormon candidate. This is gonna be good! God does move in mysterious ways, and in this presidential election, He is gonna punish the wicked!”
I gather he believed on 7/31 that Desiree’s not yet but soon to be filed case would command the attention of the nation, derailing the Mormom presidential candidate, “punishing the wicked.” Lithium? Secret Service? So who’s gonna include Cruz in the subpoenas and depose if he advised Desiree about filing suit based on her “beliefs?”
MockingbirdSings,
Hope it’s only my suspicious mind, but another angle I’ve considered is that the “protective order” may have been put into the document on the presumption it would become public knowledge, causing discussions and thoughts of “doubt” as to guilt and “whose” guilt within potential jury pools. Discussion is occurring here at BOC. Just a thought.
Hope a son is not being used as a pawn.
I always appreciate it when you weigh in, and I take your words to heart. I have to say I am thoroughly confused, not by what you say, but what to think, it is good to hear from someone in the 100% er’s. I have never in my life been so willing to change my mind about what I think, as I have been with what has happened to this sweet little boy.
GraceintheHills says:
August 7, 2012 at 8:31 pm
hmmm this election?
http://multnomah.oregondemocrats.org/sean_cruz_announces_run_for_state_senate_district_23
on portland police bureau crisis response team?
there from case beginning with vics?
hi cd,
imo, deposing JM is mandatory in this case and Houze knew this would be coming down the pike at some point.
I most understand how it is seen as DY’s legal putting pressure on TMH, and it appears it has created some stressors – - – why go for a protective order, kwim?
Am leaning towards TMH’s legal making a public issue and a media interest out of this for their client’s benefit.
The perception that JM may carry a level of guilt and TMH is protecting her son.
TMH’s legal team is keeping “her” silent, but are creating dialogue with this protective order.
jmo’s.
cd,
Of course I could be totally wrong.
googling kelly davidson ramirez, on mid p 1 of the results, I get
a line to click on that says “Justice For Kyron!By Desiree Young”
on clicking, it is the gofundme site “created by Kelly Ramirez”
with a new note posted by Mrs Ramirez “one hour ago” pleading
readers go to “Missing Kyron”
to sign the petition to deny abatement.
Whoever created and/or orchestrated the petition,
it is promoted by Mrs Young and Mrs Ramirez,
the fundraising agent for the suit. I would like a rep of the Oregon
Bar to opine on ethics. Think any reporter will call them up?
Nope, nor has one phoned Rosenthal’s office to find out if a trust was set up, not that I doubt Ms. Ramirez, I have no reason to, but that sort of situation might be construed as advertising, which is very much a Bar issue.
B
___________
Good job following your nose, Rose. I agree… it seems a bit convoluted and hokey. Hoping Desiree keeps it clean.
@Rose – I think I am missing something. Why does an ‘online petition’ matter so greatly? What I mean is, I’m asked to sign online petitions all the time, but I rarely hear of them being used in court cases, specifically when they have so few (ex. 500 vs. thousands) signatures. Do they honestly have significant pull wrt to a court decision? I’m asking sincerely. As far as tainting future possible jurrors, it seems that the media, who reach millions of readers, would has had much more of an influence of opinion than an online petition that so few (comparatively) have signed.
Again, I appreciate and respect all that you post and your research, so I just want to understand this one better. Thank you!
Re: Rose says:
August 7, 2012 at 10:10 pm
“more research, sorry.
I like transparency.
Cruz published this on the blog url above on 7/31:
“There are a lot of people close to the Kyron Horman case looking at a completely new application of law right now, intruding at a time when both the criminal and family law systems are failing and time is marching on, and yet a child is still missing, and note the use of the word “intruding.””
Desiree’s suit was filed 8/2.”
&
Re: Rose says:
August 7, 2012 at 10:32 pm
“Cruz said, on 7/31 before the case was filed in the context of Desiree filing a case against Terri….”
******************
Desiree Young’s Complaint against TH was filed on June 1, 2012, well before the Cruz comments. I believe it was Young’s response to TH’s request for delay that was filed around the beginning of August.
The way I read it is a protective order allows a non party’s deposition to be designated confidential and then later the Judge decides what comes in at trial. Unless this is for a media circus, I don’t see why ER would oppose it since the deposition material can come in at trial anyway
from Oregon Rules of Civil Procedure, Rule 36:
“C Court order limiting extent of disclosure. Upon motion by a party or by the person from whom discovery is sought, and for good cause shown, the court in which the action is pending may make any order which justice requires to protect a party or person from annoyance, embarrassment, oppression, or undue burden or expense, including one or more of the following: (1) that the discovery not be had; (2) that the discovery may be had only on specified terms and conditions, including a designation of the time or place; (3) that the discovery may be had only by a method of discovery other than that selected by the party seeking discovery; (4) that certain matters not be inquired into, or that the scope of the discovery be limited to certain matters; (5) that discovery be conducted with no one present except persons designated by the court; (6) that a deposition after being sealed be opened only by order of the court; (7) that a trade secret or other confidential research, development, or commercial information not be disclosed or be disclosed only in a designated way; (8) that the parties simultaneously file specified documents or information enclosed in sealed envelopes to be opened as directed by the court; or (9) that to prevent hardship the party requesting discovery pay to the other party reasonable expenses incurred in attending the deposition or otherwise responding to the request for discovery.
If the motion for a protective order is denied in whole or in part, the court may, on such terms and conditions as are just, order that any party or person provide or permit discovery. The provisions of Rule 46 A(4) apply to the award of expenses incurred in relation to the motion.”
http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/orcpors.htm
scholarly comment:
http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?collection=journals&handle=hein.journals/hlr105&div=21&id=&page=
http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?collection=journals&handle=hein.journals/usflr3&div=9&id=&page=
Seems to me the function of a protective order designating depo as confidential would preclude its use in any criminal case, ie if James was asked “have you ever smoked pot?”